BOND THREAD

**Pynchmail** · 08-10-16, 07:44

Yes, FH is certainly preferred to LH, but there are many instances when LH is ok. The following are examples:

(1) you have a budget constraint, for the size of apartment you need, you can afford only older LH.
(2) you treat property as an expenditure instead of investment, the difference in price between FH and LH, you invest in other investments.
(3) there is no FH in the location you want, like the person who paid $28m for the Sentosa bungalow; or you like to stay in Bishan.
(4) you are not concerned with passing down to next generation, maybe because you are not married or have no children.
(5) you are so rich that property is just a small percentage of your total net worth.

So, I guess LH properties have their purpose too. But, if all things being equal, I prefer FH.

**Kelonguni** · 08-10-16, 09:58

Fully agree.

Sometimes is also about condition of available choices. Plus new options at locality might be priced too high or too small.

In one place I surveyed, the semi d FH was 7 mil and that for LH was 3mil. The LH was a bit further in and smaller, but price difference was huge.

Originally Posted by Pynchmail

Yes, FH is certainly preferred to LH, but there are many instances when LH is ok. The following are examples:

(1) you have a budget constraint, for the size of apartment you need, you can afford only older LH.
(2) you treat property as an expenditure instead of investment, the difference in price between FH and LH, you invest in other investments.
(3) there is no FH in the location you want, like the person who paid $28m for the Sentosa bungalow; or you like to stay in Bishan.
(4) you are not concerned with passing down to next generation, maybe because you are not married or have no children.
(5) you are so rich that property is just a small percentage of your total net worth.

So, I guess LH properties have their purpose too. But, if all things being equal, I prefer FH.

**Kelonguni** · 08-10-16, 10:47

Sorry we OT again. This is on bonds.

**bargain hunter** · 08-10-16, 12:02

Originally Posted by Kelonguni

Sorry we OT again. This is on bonds.

was there a FH vs LH thread or can start one?

**cbsh38584** · 18-10-16, 18:42

BUY Short dated bond : BRL300,000 of 10.50% EUROPEAN INVESTMENT BANK(EIB) due Dec 2017 @99.9

Convert Brazilian real $300k currency to Euro @ Xrate of 3.503 est Euro $85.6k.

Draw a EUR loan $85.6k @1.2%.

Currency risk - High

Hope by next year oil will stable at $55-60 per barrel & Brazil currency will start to strengthen against Euro $ by end of 2017.
Feb 2012 One Euro$ = Brazilian Real $2.35
Sept 2015 One Euro$ = Brazilian Real $4.3

The EIB bond was issued on 7th Jan 2014. EUR. BRL was trading at 3.2317 (Xrate).
Today the Xrate is 3.52. About 9% loss of FX since 2014.

**Arcachon** · 19-10-16, 15:06

http://ebx.sh/2eiYiWP

**cbsh38584** · 10-02-17, 13:18

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

BUY Short dated bond : BRL300,000 of 10.50% EUROPEAN INVESTMENT BANK(EIB) due Dec 2017 @99.9

Convert Brazilian real $300k currency to Euro @ Xrate of 3.503 est Euro $85.6k.

Draw a EUR loan $85.6k @1.2%.

Currency risk - High

Hope by next year oil will stable at $55-60 per barrel & Brazil currency will start to strengthen against Euro $ by end of 2017.
Feb 2012 One Euro$ = Brazilian Real $2.35
Sept 2015 One Euro$ = Brazilian Real $4.3

The EIB bond was issued on 7th Jan 2014. EUR. BRL was trading at 3.2317 (Xrate).
Today the Xrate is 3.52. About 9% loss of FX since 2014.

Sold @100.5. Exchange rate @3.36.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyflux 5.75% perp bond Called - Notice Of Redemption To Holders Of The S$300,000,000 5.75%

Olam 7% perp bond - It has stated its intention to exercise its option to redeem on Sep17.

**DC33_2008** · 17-02-17, 07:37

Need your advice on GLP 5.5% bond. Should I sell now at net 99.55% given that Blackrock may buy over. GIC is one of the major shareholders now.

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

Sold @100.5. Exchange rate @3.36.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyflux 5.75% perp bond Called - Notice Of Redemption To Holders Of The S$300,000,000 5.75%

Olam 7% perp bond - It has stated its intention to exercise its option to redeem on Sep17.

**cbsh38584** · 17-02-17, 10:19

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

Need your advice on GLP 5.5% bond. Should I sell now at net 99.55% given that Blackrock may buy over. GIC is one of the major shareholders now.

DBS banker recommends GLP 5.5% SGD perp bond. By right, the price should be >100 when GIC is one of the major shareholder. If I am not wrong, the price was >104 b4 the takover news. With blackrock may buy over, there is some uncertainty just like NOL since GIC is no longer the major shareholder. That what CS BOND research team analyst coverage. So they are neutral. Different bank got different analyst coverage. Sometimes, it can be quite confusing.

NOL 4.25% SGD Bond was 103 b4 the takeover. Once the takeover is confirmed. The price drop <90-99. I bought @98 last yr. Because of
the change in control. Another 1.5% step up. Now coupon is 5.75% which will be matured in Apr 2017.

**DC33_2008** · 17-02-17, 21:23

Thanks for your advice. My banker shares the same view as you.

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

DBS banker recommends GLP 5.5% SGD perp bond. By right, the price should be >100 when GIC is one of the major shareholder. If I am not wrong, the price was >104 b4 the takover news. With blackrock may buy over, there is some uncertainty just like NOL since GIC is no longer the major shareholder. That what CS BOND research team analyst coverage. So they are neutral. Different bank got different analyst coverage. Sometimes, it can be quite confusing.

NOL 4.25% SGD Bond was 103 b4 the takeover. Once the takeover is confirmed. The price drop <90-99. I bought @98 last yr. Because of
the change in control. Another 1.5% step up. Now coupon is 5.75% which will be matured in Apr 2017.

**papalanga** · 18-02-17, 23:21

IHC Bondholders can breath a hugh sigh of relief with OUE taking over IHC.

Also in the terms:

One of the financial covenants for its IHCSP 6.000% 06Feb2018 Corp (SGD)s include a change-of-control put option which grants noteholders the right to redeem the bonds at par upon a change of shareholding event, which occurs when Fan Kow Hin, Aathar Ah Kong Andrew and Jong Hee Sen and their immediate family members cease to own in aggregate (whether directly or indirectly) at least 30 percent of the issued share capital of the IHC.

**DC33_2008** · 20-02-17, 14:16

My banker just told me they called back GLP @ 100.00. Save me &$1250.

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

DBS banker recommends GLP 5.5% SGD perp bond. By right, the price should be >100 when GIC is one of the major shareholder. If I am not wrong, the price was >104 b4 the takover news. With blackrock may buy over, there is some uncertainty just like NOL since GIC is no longer the major shareholder. That what CS BOND research team analyst coverage. So they are neutral. Different bank got different analyst coverage. Sometimes, it can be quite confusing.

NOL 4.25% SGD Bond was 103 b4 the takeover. Once the takeover is confirmed. The price drop <90-99. I bought @98 last yr. Because of
the change in control. Another 1.5% step up. Now coupon is 5.75% which will be matured in Apr 2017.

**cbsh38584** · 20-02-17, 16:34

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

My banker just told me they called back GLP @ 100.00. Save me &$1250.

Congratulation.

**DC33_2008** · 20-02-17, 16:37

Thanks. What kind of bonds are good now?

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

Congratulation.

**cbsh38584** · 20-02-17, 17:28

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

Thanks. What kind of bonds are good now?

Good investment grade bond are normally low coupon 3%+ & long tenor.
Too many uncertainty in 2017. I rather wait patience for the correction in Jun-Sep17
where FED may start to raise the rate.

Since you got execss. Why not voluntary cash contribution into your CPF (OA SA & MA). Safest & high interest rate.

**DC33_2008** · 20-02-17, 18:14

Thanks for your advice.

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

Good investment grade bond are normally low coupon 3%+ & long tenor.
Too many uncertainty in 2017. I rather wait patience for the correction in Jun-Sep17
where FED may start to raise the rate.

Since you got execss. Why not voluntary cash contribution into your CPF (OA SA & MA). Safest & high interest rate.

**richwang** · 23-02-17, 15:23

Is SIngapore savings bond worth considering now? The rental yield is very low now.

**teddybear** · 23-02-17, 15:55

SSB yield also very low........
If you consider leverage, your rental yield will most likely still be higher than SSB................

Originally Posted by richwang

Is SIngapore savings bond worth considering now? The rental yield is very low now.

**richwang** · 26-02-17, 08:38

Leverage is tricky: what if the interest rates exceed the rental yield? Will you be forced to sell at a very bad time?

**Arcachon** · 26-02-17, 16:28

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/db...081817270.html

**teddybear** · 26-02-17, 22:18

Say your property is worth $2m, and your loan is $1m.

Say interest rate of 2.5% exceeds rental yield of 2%...

Your rental = $2m * 0.02 = $40k p.a.

Your interest = $1m * 0.025 = $25k p.a.

Why would you need to sell at very bad time???

Originally Posted by richwang

Leverage is tricky: what if the interest rates exceed the rental yield? Will you be forced to sell at a very bad time?

**cbsh38584** · 02-03-17, 06:57

We have a CRAZY elected new President Trump. Now we have a CRAZY US & Europe stock mkt rally.
We also have a RALLY in high yield JUNK bond. From bear price of 60-80 to now >100. The recent coco bank
perp bond also rally by 4%-6%.

1987 , 1997 & 2008 market crash. Next will be 2017 or 2018 ?

**jeaprp** · 02-03-17, 13:01

must bull run first then crash ok

**teddybear** · 02-03-17, 21:50

Then property price will also CRASH, particularly OCR ones which has barely dropped despite the property cooling measures..........

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

We have a CRAZY elected new President Trump. Now we have a CRAZY US & Europe stock mkt rally.
We also have a RALLY in high yield JUNK bond. From bear price of 60-80 to now >100. The recent coco bank
perp bond also rally by 4%-6%.

1987 , 1997 & 2008 market crash. Next will be 2017 or 2018 ?

**cbsh38584** · 31-03-17, 22:28

Last year (June 2016) , Fullerton Healthcare launched S$100m SGD bond offered backed by ADB fund.

Fulleration health SGD bond S$50m 2.45% due 2021 Price trading 100.xx
Fulleration health SGD bond S$50m 2.75% due 2025 Pirce trading 101.xx

Yesterday, Fullerton Health issued a new USD bond , US$175 million perpetual bond offering @ 7%.
It was well oversubscribed and saw more than US$525 million of orders.

callable date is 06Apr2020
Step up coupon - if not call. The step up coupon will be USD 3Y Treasury Rate + 5.000%

The institutional investors received 65% of the final allocations & private banks, (received 35%) only the very high networth clients were given opportunity to apply for this USD BOND IPO. So I bought from open market in the afternoon at 101. Yield to call (2020) est 6.8%.

Risk - Small issued size. Difficult to sell during crisis due to liquidity issues.
It is a perpetual bond. There is no LTV for this bond.

**cbsh38584** · 05-04-17, 08:14

This video is about Switzerland beautiful country couple with a fantasic music background will make you feel and remember what it's like to feel alive.

Visiting this Swiss Alps can be also a inspirational to live life to the fullest. Throw away all the negative thoughts.

The music is so nice to listen. Like a "meditation" music that reduces stress, calms the mind and increases inner peace.

**Kelonguni** · 05-04-17, 08:45

Thanks! It's beautiful!

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

This video is about Switzerland beautiful country couple with a fantasic music background will make you feel and remember what it's like to feel alive.

Visiting this Swiss Alps can be also a inspirational to live life to the fullest. Throw away all the negative thoughts.

The music is so nice to listen. Like a "meditation" music that reduces stress, calms the mind and increases inner peace.

**DC33_2008** · 15-05-17, 15:14

Need your advice.

Bought Mapletree Logistics bond recently. Is it alright?

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

Last year (June 2016) , Fullerton Healthcare launched S$100m SGD bond offered backed by ADB fund.

Fulleration health SGD bond S$50m 2.45% due 2021 Price trading 100.xx
Fulleration health SGD bond S$50m 2.75% due 2025 Pirce trading 101.xx

Yesterday, Fullerton Health issued a new USD bond , US$175 million perpetual bond offering @ 7%.
It was well oversubscribed and saw more than US$525 million of orders.

callable date is 06Apr2020
Step up coupon - if not call. The step up coupon will be USD 3Y Treasury Rate + 5.000%

The institutional investors received 65% of the final allocations & private banks, (received 35%) only the very high networth clients were given opportunity to apply for this USD BOND IPO. So I bought from open market in the afternoon at 101. Yield to call (2020) est 6.8%.

Risk - Small issued size. Difficult to sell during crisis due to liquidity issues.
It is a perpetual bond. There is no LTV for this bond.

**cbsh38584** · 15-05-17, 18:09

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

Need your advice.

Bought Mapletree Logistics bond recently. Is it alright?

Mapletree Logistics Trust 4.180% Perpetual Corp (SGD) .
Now Price 103+.

It should alright.
Temasek Holdings Pte Ltd. (Investment Company) holding 39.4%

My NOL SP 5.750% 26Apr2017 Corp just matured 3 wks ago. I have another
NOL SP 5.9% due 2019 bought @92. Should be alright but cannot be 100% sure.

**DC33_2008** · 15-05-17, 19:26

Thanks. I bought at 100.9 last week.

Originally Posted by cbsh38584

Mapletree Logistics Trust 4.180% Perpetual Corp (SGD) .
Now Price 103+.

It should alright.
Temasek Holdings Pte Ltd. (Investment Company) holding 39.4%

My NOL SP 5.750% 26Apr2017 Corp just matured 3 wks ago. I have another
NOL SP 5.9% due 2019 bought @92. Should be alright but cannot be 100% sure.

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