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Thread: Waterfront condominium sails into troubled waters

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    Default Waterfront condominium sails into troubled waters

    Residents of waterfront condominium The Sail@Marina Bay have prepared a war chest to embark on a legal battle against its developer over damaged fixtures.

    Yesterday, about 100 owners and residents attended a tense, six-hour Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM), where they approved up to $250,000 in management funds to be used as legal fees.

    However, three other key motions to resolve the property's issues - which ranged from falling glass panels and card access security to council members allegedly misusing their power to further their careers - failed to pass.

    The long-running saga hit new heights last month, when The Sail's Management Corporation Strata Title (MCST) sent three letters of demand to its developer City Developments (CDL), calling for it to rectify the alleged defects.


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    Price is going to drop for the Sails. This Sails and H2O give CDL bad reputation.
    H2O quite rash job may turn out to be nightmare.

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    lol.. But you must give credit to the 3 agents.
    They actually managed to secure 60% PROXY votes.

    Very enterprising..
    Imagine they can convince landlords to rent to them.. and they just refurbish and re-rent at service apartment rates.

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    I am not sure how many units DKSG pick up since the last time he spoke about it a few months back.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by focus View Post
    lol.. But you must give credit to the 3 agents.
    They actually managed to secure 60% PROXY votes.

    Very enterprising..
    Imagine they can convince landlords to rent to them.. and they just refurbish and re-rent at service apartment rates.
    is that in line with URA guidelines? to re-rent it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    I am not sure how many units DKSG pick up since the last time he spoke about it a few months back.
    This news has been circulating for a while already.

    Those in the know has been using this information to depress prices.
    But regret to inform all of you that not many owners are prepared to accept a lower price than comparable last done.

    Regardless of this (I am not vested), this development is certainly a much better buy than a Jurong Studio for $1,7xx.

    DKSG

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane View Post
    is that in line with URA guidelines? to re-rent it?
    From internal sources, many owners are starting to turn against these agents and trying to get them OUT of The Sail.

    More news to follow, cant reveal much here.

    DKSG

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSG View Post
    This news has been circulating for a while already.

    Those in the know has been using this information to depress prices.
    But regret to inform all of you that not many owners are prepared to accept a lower price than comparable last done.

    Regardless of this (I am not vested), this development is certainly a much better buy than a Jurong Studio for $1,7xx.

    DKSG
    Yes, I am aware of that as I was the one who highlighted how you like to sugar coat things with hidden agenda.

    So sad for you that you didnt pick up the sail because I got the impression that you were real. what else have your pick up recently? Or should I say, what other project have you been talking recently?

    As for J Gateway, its a up and coming project, the sail? Its a down and going project waiting for en bloc. like I said before, The Sail was built with $800psf budget, not $3000psf
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSG View Post
    From internal sources, many owners are starting to turn against these agents and trying to get them OUT of The Sail.

    More news to follow, cant reveal much here.

    DKSG
    they can't do short stays cos it is against ura guidelines and to sublet they need landlord's approval. interesting, will like to see what happens next.

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    You should see the comments on Sail on propertyguru.com. Not even one good comment. All comments are vitriolic and scathing.

    This place is falling apart and the owners are going to lose a bundle. Basically the CBD is full of such white elephants, nice to look at from the outside but inside shit is literally under your feet and over your head.

    I won't pay even $800 psf for this shitty place.

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    I would say furnishing is so so but still better than many developments. It is certainly not 5 stars but it is not that crappy. At least not like you said, falling apart or shit over your head.

    The attraction is not the furnishing. MBR has better furnishing so if you have the money, just get MBR. Sail attraction is its solid location and most importantly, the view is priceless.




    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad View Post
    You should see the comments on Sail on propertyguru.com. Not even one good comment. All comments are vitriolic and scathing.

    This place is falling apart and the owners are going to lose a bundle. Basically the CBD is full of such white elephants, nice to look at from the outside but inside shit is literally under your feet and over your head.

    I won't pay even $800 psf for this shitty place.

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    I doubt Sail will get en bloc. I mean, I don't mind getting more money but seriously, I don't think so. The area is so small and there are 1.1k units. How much they can pay? 3000 psf/ppr? Selling price at what? Unless plot ratio double.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    Yes, I am aware of that as I was the one who highlighted how you like to sugar coat things with hidden agenda.

    So sad for you that you didnt pick up the sail because I got the impression that you were real. what else have your pick up recently? Or should I say, what other project have you been talking recently?

    As for J Gateway, its a up and coming project, the sail? Its a down and going project waiting for en bloc. like I said before, The Sail was built with $800psf budget, not $3000psf

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    Something has to be done with those agents or fund houses who have bought multiple units of a development and wants to influence policy at AGM.
    Quote Originally Posted by focus View Post
    lol.. But you must give credit to the 3 agents.
    They actually managed to secure 60% PROXY votes.

    Very enterprising..
    Imagine they can convince landlords to rent to them.. and they just refurbish and re-rent at service apartment rates.

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    Unfortunately, rental yield is quite poor at MBR.
    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    I would say furnishing is so so but still better than many developments. It is certainly not 5 stars but it is not that crappy. At least not like you said, falling apart or shit over your head.

    The attraction is not the furnishing. MBR has better furnishing so if you have the money, just get MBR. Sail attraction is its solid location and most importantly, the view is priceless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    I would say furnishing is so so but still better than many developments. It is certainly not 5 stars but it is not that crappy. At least not like you said, falling apart or shit over your head.

    The attraction is not the furnishing. MBR has better furnishing so if you have the money, just get MBR. Sail attraction is its solid location and most importantly, the view is priceless.
    Rusty oil tanker view is priceless? I think not. The view from San Francisco high rises, devoid of rusty oil tankers, would be much better. And the prices are much lower.

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    Haha.. Well, let's just take it that Sail has rusty oil tanker view then


    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad View Post
    Rusty oil tanker view is priceless? I think not. The view from San Francisco high rises, devoid of rusty oil tankers, would be much better. And the prices are much lower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    I would say furnishing is so so but still better than many developments. It is certainly not 5 stars but it is not that crappy. At least not like you said, falling apart or shit over your head.

    The attraction is not the furnishing. MBR has better furnishing so if you have the money, just get MBR. Sail attraction is its solid location and most importantly, the view is priceless.
    yup. i think out of all the posts i always read, you seem to think along the same lines as me.

    the sail will always be about the prestige. no matter how you look at it, there will always be a certain prestige when living there, (at least, till the place literally falls apart at the seams). i am not vested there as i tend to stay away from residential (tenants tend to be fussy, and i dont have the patience to deal with bs). did pick up some commercial nearby and hopefully with all the residential properties coming up, it will improve my yields.

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    I like to stay there because of its accessibility. 3 MRT lines and 1 more opening by end of this year. Weekend just walk down and drink coffee. So it fits my needs perfectly.

    But I am sure some people will have different opinion like rusty tanker view but I am fine with it. There will be more residential there. V on shenton, One Marina (or something like that. The malaysia land one), robinson suites and MBS. I expect rental for residential to be very competitive but commercial wise, it should be good. Everything is shifting towards D1 area.




    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionx View Post
    yup. i think out of all the posts i always read, you seem to think along the same lines as me.

    the sail will always be about the prestige. no matter how you look at it, there will always be a certain prestige when living there, (at least, till the place literally falls apart at the seams). i am not vested there as i tend to stay away from residential (tenants tend to be fussy, and i dont have the patience to deal with bs). did pick up some commercial nearby and hopefully with all the residential properties coming up, it will improve my yields.

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    Thumbs up

    D1 my fav

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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionx View Post
    yup. i think out of all the posts i always read, you seem to think along the same lines as me.

    the sail will always be about the prestige. no matter how you look at it, there will always be a certain prestige when living there, (at least, till the place literally falls apart at the seams). i am not vested there as i tend to stay away from residential (tenants tend to be fussy, and i dont have the patience to deal with bs). did pick up some commercial nearby and hopefully with all the residential properties coming up, it will improve my yields.
    definition of prestige is vague. Location wise is good, but the interior fittings and management are horrible for that kind of price.

    For wannabe, The Sail will be perfect because people can brag about location D1 etc, for those who looking for something more private and exclusive, they will sure to look else where.

    And when NDP moves to sport hub, residents at the sail will have less fireworks to enjoy.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    definition of prestige is vague. Location wise is good, but the interior fittings and management are horrible for that kind of price.

    For wannabe, The Sail will be perfect because people can brag about location D1 etc, for those who looking for something more private and exclusive, they will sure to look else where.

    And when NDP moves to sport hub, residents at the sail will have less fireworks to enjoy.
    but that's the beauty of property.

    management - can change (eventually if everyone cant stand them)
    fittings - can rip out everything and replace (if you got $$$)

    location wise, not so easy/cheap to change/replicate

    and yes, the whole point about living at the sail is to tell people you are living at the sail. otherwise, yes, there probably are better places (but like you said, with less bragging rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionx View Post
    but that's the beauty of property.

    management - can change (eventually if everyone cant stand them)
    fittings - can rip out everything and replace (if you got $$$)

    location wise, not so easy/cheap to change/replicate

    and yes, the whole point about living at the sail is to tell people you are living at the sail. otherwise, yes, there probably are better places (but like you said, with less bragging rights)
    Managements are put there by the owners and if majority of the owners are only interested in short term gain then there is nothing one could do to change it.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    The interior fittings are fine actually. My standard not too high. Can use good already. I mean not top notch but they give Electrolux, Grohe etc lor.

    Just want to clarify something - We are not wannabe. I just think the location and amenities fits me perfectly. 700 sq ft studio is more than enough for me (1 person living). Easily a 2 bedroom nowadays anyway. Below 900k, I find it pretty attractive as compared to 800k at Seaview previously and so I bought it for my own stay. Never regretted it.

    The main attraction isn't quality (obviously). For me, I like the multiple MRT lines, starbucks, lau pa sat and banks around the area. And it is so quiet during weekends so it fits my needs perfectly. Don't think I can find something like that but that is just me and my requirements. Some don't need MRT or starbucks.

    As for fireworks, doesn't matter to me. The lesser the better. Everytime got fireworks, the lifts will be over crowded. Hopefully no more fireworks. And lastly, the management sucks.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    definition of prestige is vague. Location wise is good, but the interior fittings and management are horrible for that kind of price.

    For wannabe, The Sail will be perfect because people can brag about location D1 etc, for those who looking for something more private and exclusive, they will sure to look else where.

    And when NDP moves to sport hub, residents at the sail will have less fireworks to enjoy.

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    Fittings are fine actually. I don't see a big problem with it but even if I renovate and change all fittings, 20k will be more than suffice I feel.



    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionx View Post
    but that's the beauty of property.

    management - can change (eventually if everyone cant stand them)
    fittings - can rip out everything and replace (if you got $$$)

    location wise, not so easy/cheap to change/replicate

    and yes, the whole point about living at the sail is to tell people you are living at the sail. otherwise, yes, there probably are better places (but like you said, with less bragging rights)

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    Default Condo sails into troubled waters

    http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/...aters-20130908

    Condo sails into troubled waters

    Owners approve $250,000 to fight developer over alleged defects

    Published on Sep 08, 2013

    By Joyce Lim And Charissa Yong


    Residents of waterfront condominium The Sail@Marina Bay have prepared a war chest to embark on a legal battle against its developer over damaged fixtures.

    Yesterday, about 100 owners and residents attended a tense, six-hour Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM), where they approved up to $250,000 in management funds to be used as legal fees.

    However, three other key motions to resolve the property's issues - which ranged from falling glass panels and card access security to council members allegedly misusing their power to further their careers - failed to pass.

    The long-running saga hit new heights last month, when The Sail's Management Corporation Strata Title (MCST) sent three letters of demand to its developer City Developments (CDL), calling for it to rectify the alleged defects.

    Residents claim the property developer has yet to carry out any rectification work at The Sail - Singapore's tallest condominium, which has 1,100 units.

    CDL confirmed that it had received the MCST's three letters. A spokesman said the MCST council had been responsible for The Sail's estate management and general upkeep since 2010.

    "There were service contracts that have lapsed and repairs long overdue," he said. "There are numerous internal issues of management and maintenance against the MCST council. (Our subsidiary), having handed over the property more than three years ago, should not be dragged into their internal disputes."

    Yesterday's meeting saw the condo's management council receive a mandate to take the developer to task.

    Residents told The Sunday Times that barely two years after moving into their homes in 2008, numerous defects started popping up which have become almost impossible to live with.

    In March 2011, they began to experience water leak issues at the lift and escalator areas.

    In April this year, an underground water pipe which supplies water to one of the condo's two towers burst and cut off water supply to residents living in that tower.

    "The burst pipe is a big issue," said Mr Alvin Tan, 60, a business management consultant who owns several units at The Sail. "The whole building is being compromised. The lifts were affected. There were also cracks on the glass panels of the lifts."

    A 39-year-old resident, who declined to be named, said: "As an interim measure to the burst pipe, a temporary pipework connection had to be put up to supply water to the affected tower.

    "This pipe runs over a path and driveway and across a postal room. It's not just unsightly, but a nuisance for people collecting their mail and a trip hazard, especially for the handicapped.

    "About two weeks ago, another piece of glass shattered and fell from the glass canopy at the lobby. More than 10 such pieces have shattered in the past two years. This is seriously dangerous for people walking under it."

    CDL said that the cause of the burst pipe had not been determined by the MCST.

    Yesterday's motions to fit the condo's lifts with new internal finishes which are easier and cheaper to replace, as well as upgrade its security access system to encrypted card keys, were not voted through.

    The Sunday Times understands that about 75 per cent of the vote share present yesterday was represented by proxy.

    Yesterday's EGM also saw the failure of a motion to remove three council members accused of misusing their powers.

    "They are property agents and have been subletting the units as serviced apartments," claimed Mr Tan. "This is a residential property but now we have people going in and out. It's like Geylang. I bought the units as residential units and now it's like a hotel. The Sail is located at a strategic area, but its security is a joke. Anybody can walk in.

    "At the last Annual General Meeting in June, these three council members held more than 60 per cent of the proxy votes. It's a mockery for the subsidiary proprietors."

    An online search showed several websites advertising short- term stays at The Sail. Under Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) guidelines on leasing and subletting of residential properties, such properties are meant for stays of six months or more.

    The URA confirmed that it has received feedback that some units in The Sail are being leased for less than six months and is investigating. If investigations establish that a residential unit is being misused, the person responsible may be fined up to $200,000, imprisoned for a term of up to 12 months, or both.

    [email protected]

    [email protected]

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    I always see the news differently from the rest.

    In particular, the agents having to take risks to defy the law and resort to subletting the units as service apartments means that the rental is weakening in CCR.

    Good Luck.

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    Another point is human beings are jealous by nature and I would like owners to be aware.

    In general and not referring to this case: if you have very good rental returns/good projects, people ( I let you guess who ) can be jealous and you know there will be shitty around to sabotage you.

    So you need a very strong management council made up of real strong owners.

    Good Luck.

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    I am THE KING OF REAL ESTATE. Any project I go, I can lift up the rental subtaintially through my business MNC networks.I can help the owners in those projects secure very good rental returns. ( I AM NOT A PROPERTY AGENT HOR )

    The Managing Agents will also become kittens and kuai kuai listen to me and do their jobs. ( Because of my BILLIONAIRE FAMILY background & networks )

    Any project I leave can say BYE BYE to good rental returns.

    WATCH THIS SPACE and I will reveal to you where my next targets are.

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    All boast and no action proves nothing.

    Because now I have not park in the various projects properly yet ( because of the ABSD is giving me a big headache ), I will pick one example project with poor rental and show you how I am able to secure a rental 2x her current transacted rental in the market.

    But that have to be in October or after because the sales completion of this project I just bought is in October and the current tenancy will only end in Jan 2014.

    Good Luck.

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    In 2008, I told the owners in Robertson 100 and Vida the same thing. And the agents and owners laughed at me. Now they are asking me to go back.

    Too late liao, who ask them to laugh at me like some of you guys here last time?

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