A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[bargain hunter]

This property bought during the low in 2009 also sold at loss.. So able to pick the right property also important vs timing.

but u r right. big units bought in late 2009 were the wrong units. BUT the buyers would NOT have known. without the 2011 ABSD/SSD followed by 2013 TDSR, big units would not have suffered so much and we only know that on hindsight, not before, certainly not at the point of this purchase in nov 2009.

[Kelonguni]

If these properties were sold pre-TDSR, we would have had a different conclusion.

They might have been holding out for any potential changes in stance by the Government, which did not materialise.

In the end, those who need to buy or sell pay the taxes and proceed accordingly .

If you factor in 7 to 10% tax, it is still roughly the same level.

This property bought during the low in 2009 also sold at loss.. So able to pick the right property also important vs timing.

[Citizen]

A handful of loss transactions don't represent market as a whole.

[proud owner]

A handful of loss transactions don't represent market as a whole.

i understand what you say..


what is interesting is that Bro Bargain Hunter started this thread in 2008, capturing all the 'big ticket' loss resale transactions.

I am sure there are some 'Gain' transactions.

But since 2008, Lehman crisis, post crisis recovery thru 2012, thru several sold out projects(new launch) , etc ...

we are seeing for almost 8 years now of losses in resales, rather than HUGE GAINs in resales...

I dont know what to make out of this but it definitely does not look good to me .. .

[teddybear]

Soon, there will be more and much more, and there will be enough transactions to "make" the DOWN market (i.e. finally most people will have agreed that the property market has really CRASHED!)..........

A handful of loss transactions don't represent market as a whole.

[Kelonguni]

It's probable that this is a result of the reworking of the masterplan for housing.

One question always at my back is our Govt always do things with a background agenda, which attempts to benefit the masses as much as possible.

I have no clear idea of the long term agendas except that purchases for own stay or for long term rents still appear viable and supportive of housing directions for SG.

i understand what you say..


what is interesting is that Bro Bargain Hunter started this thread in 2008, capturing all the 'big ticket' loss resale transactions.

I am sure there are some 'Gain' transactions.

But since 2008, Lehman crisis, post crisis recovery thru 2012, thru several sold out projects(new launch) , etc ...

we are seeing for almost 8 years now of losses in resales, rather than HUGE GAINs in resales...

I dont know what to make out of this but it definitely does not look good to me .. .

[teddybear]

Questions:

1) How does keeping the OCR private property prices at historical high benefit the masses?

2) How does CRASHing the CCR private property prices benefit the masses?

Something must be wrong somewhere when the property cooling measures is supposed to cool (but instead it crash CCR property prices) and yet didn't cool (didn't cool OCR property prices)!

It's probable that this is a result of the reworking of the masterplan for housing.

One question always at my back is our Govt always do things with a background agenda, which attempts to benefit the masses as much as possible.

I have no clear idea of the long term agendas except that purchases for own stay or for long term rents still appear viable and supportive of housing directions for SG.

[Kelonguni]

We are not fully aware of the hidden Masterplan even though we see a glimpse of their thoughts here and there.

It could be a paradigm shift to (for the long term) make staying anywhere in SG more or less the same overall experience and therefore closing of the gap between regions permanently.

Just one possibility. I also have no clear idea.

Questions:

1) How does keeping the OCR private property prices at historical high benefit the masses?

2) How does CRASHing the CCR private property prices benefit the masses?

Something must be wrong somewhere when the property cooling measures is supposed to cool (but instead it crash CCR property prices) and yet didn't cool (didn't cool OCR property prices)!

[Citizen]

i understand what you say..


what is interesting is that Bro Bargain Hunter started this thread in 2008, capturing all the 'big ticket' loss resale transactions.

I am sure there are some 'Gain' transactions.

But since 2008, Lehman crisis, post crisis recovery thru 2012, thru several sold out projects(new launch) , etc ...

we are seeing for almost 8 years now of losses in resales, rather than HUGE GAINs in resales...

I dont know what to make out of this but it definitely does not look good to me .. .

My friend went to view a fh condo relatively new at Marymount, most transacted prices were 1k plus PSF but he still can't find a seller wanted to sell at 1.1k PSF since 2012 which reflected on the transacted list. Agents not working or he is just no luck?

[Citizen]

I only believe the market price I'm able to buy off the shelve, not just a handful transacted prices. In 90s there were 90s market price and 2016 you have the current price. High or low is one definition.

[teddybear]

He can go to Yishun, Woodlands, Changi etc can still buy at <$1k psf easily still, or especially those 99-years LH with <60 years remaining can even get at <$700 psf!

Just because a place in RCR didn't hit his buying target price doesn't mean the price has NOT CRASHED!

My friend went to view a fh condo relatively new at Marymount, most transacted prices were 1k plus PSF but he still can't find a seller wanted to sell at 1.1k PSF since 2012 which reflected on the transacted list. Agents not working or he is just no luck?

[Kelonguni]

That's why it is a buyer's market if he is not choosy.

He can go to Yishun, Woodlands, Changi etc can still buy at <$1k psf easily still, or especially those 99-years LH with <60 years remaining can even get at <$700 psf!

Just because a place in RCR didn't hit his buying target price doesn't mean the price has NOT CRASHED!

[teddybear]

It is a BUYERS' market if you are RICH, you can buy in CCR, especially BIG BIG units of 2000 sqft and above, they are SUPER CHEAP now, some even lower than 2009 Global Financial Crisis (thanks to SG property cooling measures)!

NO, it is NOT A BUYERS' market if you are looking to buy in RCR or OCR, because the property prices there are still near HISTORICAL HIGH (absolute highest price since Singapore come into existence)!

So depends on what you want.... If you can only afford OCR or RCR, obviously it is NOT a BUYERS' market at those obscene historical HIGH price level (since Singapore come into existence)................

That's why it is a buyer's market if he is not choosy.

[Kelonguni]

In that case, what you are saying is it is not a buyers market yet.

What if this definition of buyers market never comes true? I.e. all segments continue to float at this level for the next 5 or 10 years?

It is a BUYERS' market if you are RICH, you can buy in CCR, especially BIG BIG units of 2000 sqft and above, they are SUPER CHEAP now, some even lower than 2009 Global Financial Crisis (thanks to SG property cooling measures)!

NO, it is NOT A BUYERS' market if you are looking to buy in RCR or OCR, because the property prices there are still near HISTORICAL HIGH (absolute highest price since Singapore come into existence)!

So depends on what you want.... If you can only afford OCR or RCR, obviously it is NOT a BUYERS' market at those obscene historical HIGH price level (since Singapore come into existence)................

[bargain hunter]

bro, i started this thread in 3rd march 2012 when the first losses of the post 2009 rebound started. these first losses were the result of the 1st "draconian" measures of january 2011. u r right that this thread only highlights the losses but not the gains. the scenarios are actually quite easy, depending on whether the people who bought low are willing to sell or not (and hence cashing in a gain). thus, the number of losses vs number of gains does NOT signify anything.

for CCR, most people who bought in early 2007 and before and from Lehman lows of say around october 2008 to jun 2009 should be able to sell at a gain at today's prices. some exceptions that i can recall offhand are: one tree hill residences, st regis, orange grove residences, ardmore II.

those who are selling at losses at current prices bought during 2 high volume spike peaks: 1) around jun 2007 to late 2007 (some also bought in early 2008 at high prices). 2) a longer period from late 2009 selectively till mid 2013 where CCR prices stayed high but did not keep going up.

we should have a very low chance of seeing many post mid 2013 buyers selling at a loss because 1) volume was super low after the Duo launch in oct or nov 2013 till at least mid 2014 and 2) these buyers had to pass the TDSR.

i understand what you say..


what is interesting is that Bro Bargain Hunter started this thread in 2008, capturing all the 'big ticket' loss resale transactions.

I am sure there are some 'Gain' transactions.

But since 2008, Lehman crisis, post crisis recovery thru 2012, thru several sold out projects(new launch) , etc ...

we are seeing for almost 8 years now of losses in resales, rather than HUGE GAINs in resales...

I dont know what to make out of this but it definitely does not look good to me .. .

[Citizen]

He can go to Yishun, Woodlands, Changi etc can still buy at <$1k psf easily still, or especially those 99-years LH with <60 years remaining can even get at <$700 psf!

Just because a place in RCR didn't hit his buying target price doesn't mean the price has NOT CRASHED!

My friend thought that the previous transacted prices were fair and should be market price. But he just can't get those prices till today. All prices offered to him were way higher than transacted prices. And funny things, those so call fair prices just by pass his agent.

[Citizen]

Few of them sold cheap for whatever reasons don't mean that everyone will sell low.
Market price doesn't take few low transacted prices as benchmark or as index

[teddybear]

Ha ha ha! Very funny!
It is like when they made mistake or failed something, they can say cannot name "names" because they don't want to play the "blame game" (e.g. SGH saga)..........

Or better still, "Honest mistake, please move on!", don't make a mountain out of a molehill???

When others make mistake (or not even a mistake but something they can faintly latched on) or failed something, all hells break loose!!!!!!!!

Better still, might as well make Bungalows and HDB flats about the same price so that staying anywhere in any house in SG is more or less the same and nobody will be deprived of the chance???

We are not fully aware of the hidden Masterplan even though we see a glimpse of their thoughts here and there.

It could be a paradigm shift to (for the long term) make staying anywhere in SG more or less the same overall experience and therefore closing of the gap between regions permanently.

Just one possibility. I also have no clear idea.

[teddybear]

Your friend can try "The Edge on Cairnhill"!

At $1774 psf at last transacted price, that is about the price transacted during the 2009 Global Financial Crisis (but we all know NOW is not GFC but you can get "GFC"-price, AND only in CCR (NOT RCR nor OCR!!!))

Oh but think your friend won't get such deals too, because they are usually reserved for the agents' family members/friends and preferred clients too!

My friend thought that the previous transacted prices were fair and should be market price. But he just can't get those prices till today. All prices offered to him were way higher than transacted prices. And funny things, those so call fair prices just by pass his agent.

The Edge on Cairnhill

Sold 25 APR 2016 130 CAIRNHILL ROAD #XX-XX 2,142sq ft 1,774psf
Bought 4 NOV 2009 1,850psf

[teddybear]

What you said is really contradictory......

If market price is not based on recent transacted price, then based on what?
Based on what you dictate???

Index is good for show only because it doesn't tell you where the "bargains" are, like now all the bargains are in CCR because many CCR transacted prices has crashed by 25 to even 40% (so don't go buy the seriously-overpriced OCR private properties that is trading at historical high (highest price ever since Singapore comes into existence centuries ago), sure lose money come 2020!)

Few of them sold cheap for whatever reasons don't mean that everyone will sell low.
Market price doesn't take few low transacted prices as benchmark or as index

[Citizen]

What you said is really contradictory......

If market price is not based on recent transacted price, then based on what?
Based on what you dictate???

Index is good for show only because it doesn't tell you where the "bargains" are, like now all the bargains are in CCR because many CCR transacted prices has crashed by 25 to even 40% (so don't go buy the seriously-overpriced OCR private properties that is trading at historical high (highest price ever since Singapore comes into existence centuries ago), sure lose money come 2020!)

Ok ok you won, market price is based on fews low transacted prices.

[Arcachon]

Willing buyer, willing seller. Best time to get the worst unit.

[bargain hunter]

Willing buyer, willing seller. Best time to get the worst unit.

shouldn't it be best time to get best unit at worst unit's prices?

[Citizen]

shouldn't it be best time to get best unit at worst unit's prices?

Yeah! TKK, been doing shopping for many mths.

[bargain hunter]

Yeah! TKK, been doing shopping for many mths.

get best unit at worst unit's prices at least if drop further can console oneself that got best unit and got some buffer haha.

[Kelonguni]

Yah that's right. Get the best unit especially if developer releases. May be good price at the moment.

For resales, much depends on the sellers willing to let go. From the feedback here, it seems that only clueless sellers who do not even paint over the developer paint, don't know what to do with their units, are letting go. These are very unlikely to be the best units, but they are likely to let go a little lower as well.

So for developers new units, go for the best units. For resales, go for the worst looking unit at the best (lowest) price and do the work yourself.

get best unit at worst unit's prices at least if drop further can console oneself that got best unit and got some buffer haha.

[thomastansb]

If many CCR properties have CRASHED 25 to 40%, how come the CCR index don't show that?

What you said is really contradictory......

If market price is not based on recent transacted price, then based on what?
Based on what you dictate???

Index is good for show only because it doesn't tell you where the "bargains" are, like now all the bargains are in CCR because many CCR transacted prices has crashed by 25 to even 40% (so don't go buy the seriously-overpriced OCR private properties that is trading at historical high (highest price ever since Singapore comes into existence centuries ago), sure lose money come 2020!)

[teddybear]

Please show us the CCR index for Orchard Road area can?
We would get a clearer picture if there is such CCR index showing price index from 2007 to now.

If many CCR properties have CRASHED 25 to 40%, how come the CCR index don't show that?

[wannabe]

Ok ok you won, market price is based on fews low transacted prices.

actually should be market price based on the latest transacted prices.

Just like how your asking salary is pretty much based on your last drawn

[wannabe]

Yah that's right. Get the best unit especially if developer releases. May be good price at the moment.

For resales, much depends on the sellers willing to let go. From the feedback here, it seems that only clueless sellers who do not even paint over the developer paint, don't know what to do with their units, are letting go. These are very unlikely to be the best units, but they are likely to let go a little lower as well.

So for developers new units, go for the best units. For resales, go for the worst looking unit at the best (lowest) price and do the work yourself.

Some of the sellers are not only clueless but also cannot be bothered.
Already stuck with a lemon, going to sell at a loss, therefore dont want to spend more $ into the property. Furthermore some of them are tenanted out, selling with tenancy so a bit hard to go and paint.