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View Full Version : Which TK devt is still considered a value-buy now?



penguin
26-11-10, 11:40
Hi, I need some advice. I'm looking to get a unit in TK lor N area as I wish for my boy to study in Tao nan pri. However, it seems most of the TK units around there seem to be asking for very steep prices, as compared to caveats lodged recently.

If I pay 1.1m for a small 3-bedder (@ probably 900psf) in this current market, do you think there will still be any upside to it? What devt would you recommend which is nice to stay, and yet still priced within reasonable value?

My instincts tell me prices may drop a little next yr, but there are mkt sentiments which predict prices to continue to head north. Should I get it now, or wait till mid of 2011? Any experts here, pls shed some light?

rambo6
26-11-10, 15:37
Hi, I need some advice. I'm looking to get a unit in TK lor N area as I wish for my boy to study in Tao nan pri. However, it seems most of the TK units around there seem to be asking for very steep prices, as compared to caveats lodged recently.

If I pay 1.1m for a small 3-bedder (@ probably 900psf) in this current market, do you think there will still be any upside to it? What devt would you recommend which is nice to stay, and yet still priced within reasonable value?

My instincts tell me prices may drop a little next yr, but there are mkt sentiments which predict prices to continue to head north. Should I get it now, or wait till mid of 2011? Any experts here, pls shed some light?
Hi,
'The Lucent' and 'The Ambrosia' are very nice development along Lor N, within 1km from Tao Nan and also adjacent to the Park Connector.
The Ambrosia should be TOPing very soon and The Lucent should TOP mid next year.
The Lucent has more unit size ranges (from 2bedder to 5 bedder) but I think the Ambrosia has only 3 bedder and above and priced higher.
Both are developed by 'Roxy Land'.
Price should range between $950 to $1100 PSF now.
Have you considered renting instead of buying?

Wild Falcon
26-11-10, 18:34
If you're buying solely for Tao Nan - then "value creation" is not a primary objective. In short, just buy the cheapest unit. Lots of MM there at very affordable absolute quantum. Please note Tao Nan has no affiliation - so in my mind, not worth the trouble. To each his own.

penguin
27-11-10, 00:04
rambo,

Yes, The Lucent did catch my eye, but its fully sold out and the resale is flipping at a much higher psf than last caveat lodged. So I do not think it's worth it, or there will be any more upside to this devt, thought its nice. I am looking at resale units about 5yrs old, but many are so small (less than 20 units) that worries me, as I stayed in one before and didnt like how the devt was run by own residents.

I won't rent as I never liked the idea of renting without a roof over my head. Never know how the property market will go, plus this is for own stay, so no point taking this gamble, am I right? Unless you have very strong instincts the market will drop by at least 20-30% after 1-2yrs. But no one can predict so far ahead.

penguin
27-11-10, 00:13
Wildfalcon,

Seems you dont have a very good impression of Tao Nan eh? But its a good school, esp the way the school is run by this current principal.
Well, since we are going to move back to the east (stayed there before and liked it), plus we need to get a good school for our boy, so thats why we narrowed down the search to TK Lor N area. Don't like the St patricks area.
And how to squeeze one family into a MM? haha...i don't think I can survive for long. I am already down sizing from 1400+sqft house to 1200+ sqft. But seems like many devts in TK have 1000-1100+sqft 3 bedders, which I thought seemed quite pathetically small.

reuters
28-11-10, 08:22
Penguin,

Have you read that the 2nd top PSLE student this year was from Tao Nan? That school is definitely one of the top primary schools in Singapore with good reputation. Unless you are going for affiliations with the fear that your boy needs that relationship later to get into a good secondary school (then go for ACS schools), Tao Nan will be a good choice around the East side.

I read your comments and feel that you need to distinguish your priority amongst your needs. If it is all about your son, then you should just get the most affordable/cheapest unit available that allows you to continue to live your lifestyle. Why not get a HDB here? The HDBs in Marine Parade and Marine Terrace are all good units. Why not buy a typical 5-room resale flat and renovate it?

If investment is your priority, there is no question where the main block of the potential is - go for anything around the block defined at 4 corners by Parc Seabreeze (SE), Katong Mall (NE), Shore Residences (NW) and Seaview (SW). The recent collective sale of Paramount Hotel in that block indicates a possibility of that area appreciating to $2,000psf if it is a freehold property, in the near future. Unless they demolish Parkway Parade and the entire Marine Parade Central, this area is very attractive to live in because of the proximity to all the amenities, including a new cinema at Katong Mall. If the price is too steep, you can also check out Joo Chiat/Tembeling area as long as it is not way too far from the Marine Parade area, taking Katong Mall as the epi-centre.

amk
28-11-10, 08:54
Penguin I fully understand ur situation. Trying to buy a home for the child, and at the same time as a reasonable home to live. Life is not just abt money.

TK area, over the years, has been transformed into a collection of tiny projects with MM units. 1100 sqft 3bd is not really livable for a real family with growing kids. I'm afraid u have no choice but to look at better and bigger projects. Those will cost more right now. However if u can afford, I think since u will be there for 10 yrs, it's still worthwhile. It's a home after all. They keyword is affordability though. Dun stretch too much. But dun be over conservative. U r still young. Consider your future earnings.

DC33_2008
28-11-10, 10:17
It's good to give the best to the children. But staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in the school. I know someone who bought Duchess which is in front of Tao nan when their child is only 3 years old. One will still have to ballot unless they have siblings, old boys or old girls. There are always weaker students in good schools. These weaker students who do not do well in their PSLE will be worst off if there is no affiliation to any secondary school. Even some with affiliation to secondary school but do not meet the minimum score will also be caught. Bottom line, know the children capacity and make the best choice for them.

reuters
28-11-10, 10:34
It's good to give the best to the children. But staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in the school. I know someone who bought Duchess which is in front of Tao nan when their child is only 3 years old. One will still have to ballot unless they have siblings, old boys or old girls. There are always weaker students in good schools. These weaker students who do not do well in their PSLE will be worst off if there is no affiliation to any secondary school. Even some with affiliation to secondary school but do not meet the minimum score will also be caught. Bottom line, know the children capacity and make the best choice for them.

It is true that staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in that school, but as parents, we will always want to maximize the chances for our children. The chances of them doing better in studies in good schools are higher. If you feel that your son/daughter is at the bottom of his cohort, I will be surprised if you prefer to put him in a lousy school to 'keep him in his place', rather than try to put him in an environment for him to catch up with others. I believe that good schools are successful because they have good teaching/learning environments and can offer better chances of our children to get good grades. This might sound selfish but I prefer to have the last laugh when my son aces in a good school than to ace as a dark horse in an average or below average school. Not only do I want him in a good primary school, I will move if it helps him get into a better secondary school later on, and will move again if this helps him get into a good jc.

DC33_2008
28-11-10, 10:50
I do not mean lousy schools. You should look for good schools from primary to college. The affiliation does help students to progress to the next level as they are required less points as compared to those who have no affiliation. I agree that good school offer better chances but it depends on the raw material, ie. child's capacity. Some very good schools will indirectly ask parents to get tutors' they could not keep up with the class. At the end of the day, both the parents and the child will be stressed.
It is true that staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in that school, but as parents, we will always want to maximize the chances for our children. The chances of them doing better in studies in good schools are higher. If you feel that your son/daughter is at the bottom of his cohort, I will be surprised if you prefer to put him in a lousy school to 'keep him in his place', rather than try to put him in an environment for him to catch up with others. I believe that good schools are successful because they have good teaching/learning environments and can offer better chances of our children to get good grades. This might sound selfish but I prefer to have the last laugh when my son aces in a good school than to ace as a dark horse in an average or below average school. Not only do I want him in a good primary school, I will move if it helps him get into a better secondary school later on, and will move again if this helps him get into a good jc.

penguin
28-11-10, 12:18
Hi Reuters,

Yes, I agree with you. I do not need affliations to secondary schools as I think it would be better to peg that to my boy's results. Tao Nan is ranked 5th based on number of high scorers for PSLE, plus this principal is the very 'on' type which I like. :) I actually think the devts near Katong mall still have upside potential, and am also considering them. Parc Seabreeze is out of my budget. I did consider HDB too, but thought that would be my last choice if I am priced out of all the private properties there.

I am actually overseas till 2012 June, and just sold my condo at Serangoon central area. So I have to made a decision whether to buy another place now, or wait till 2012 when I am back in Singapore. My instints tell me prices will stabilise or fall slightly, but lately there has been mkt sentiments for prices to rise next yr, which worries me.

reuters
28-11-10, 12:22
I do not mean lousy schools. You should look for good schools from primary to college. The affiliation does help students to progress to the next level as they are required less points as compared to those who have no affiliation. I agree that good school offer better chances but it depends on the raw material, ie. child's capacity. Some very good schools will indirectly ask parents to get tutors' they could not keep up with the class. At the end of the day, both the parents and the child will be stressed.

I guess I will rather be stressed but have higher chances for good results than not to get stressed and risk my child's potential for good results. But that is just me as others prefer to take their own pace. The topic here started because of Penguin's interest to enroll the child in Tao Nan, so if he agrees that this is not important, he should look at Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Yishun, etc. The apartments there are big and more affordable. But he has to be content and happy with the schools located there and not get stressed by anything, and not employ any tutors - just let his son/daughter learn at his/her pace and only if they want.

penguin
28-11-10, 12:28
amk,

I would love to get a spacious unit, but looking at propertyguru, it seems they are all asking sky-high prices (some almost the same psf as a 1100sqft unit in the same devt) - definitely way way higher than last transaction lodged. I wonder are these sellers just trying to test the market or do they genuienly think property prices are rising so fast that their unit can command that premium.

Currently, we are taking abt 30% loan, so actually we can afford a larger unit but that would mean stretching our loan tenure. But I am thinking of just sticking to around the same price as what we sold our unit for, as I don't quite like the idea of a huge home loan. If we can find a good value unit - even if it's big and more pricey, I think it's worth the consideration. But if asking prices do not change, I think we have to end up with a 1200+sqft unit.

penguin
28-11-10, 12:36
DC33 2008,

I am all ready to be a Parent-Volunteer or even join GR! (I'm the mummy) haha.. I heard the latter is a sure-get-in, or 99% chance. Anyway, talking abt stress, Im sure Tao nan will have it's fair share of stress, judging from the way the school system is. I have heard of teachers asking the poorer students to get tutors. I am confident my boy will be comfortable in Tao Nan. :) I believe some pressure will do kids good; make them more ambitious and motivated to excel is a good trait. I never like my boy to be in his comfort-zone for too long. But I have to agree with you - parents who send their kids to top schools have to be mentally prepared for the stress, and must be very involved in their kid's schoolwork.

penguin
28-11-10, 12:39
Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad. :)

med80009
28-11-10, 13:14
If buying the property is solely for primary school purpose, may want to watch the trend for the phase 2B and 2C balloting for the next 1-2 yr since you can wait. For this year, it is the first that TNS required balloting w/i 1 km for phase 2B. Phase 2B for TNS is open not just for grass root, PV, but also SHHK members. So, with condos sprouting up around the whole of D15, i would imagine that things would only be more competitive. Do you have a backup plan if you don't get phase 2B for TNS ?? NG primary is next door but some developments in TK lies at the periphery of the 1 km radius...

This primary school business is getting crazier.. too bad no one's going to do anything about it. Most of our political elite hails from "popular" schools and would be more than happy to keep the status quo. MM already said that too bad for you no level playing field in pri school, can try our luck though after PSLE....

reuters
28-11-10, 13:26
Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad. :)

Actually as long as it is a good school, it need not be Tao Nan right? What about Rosyth, Ai Tong, ACS Junior, Henry Park, etc? Of course there is also Nanyang Pri (which I heard is stressful). If you really want an apartment within 1km from Tao Nan, be prepared that the side towards Amber Road will continue to be more expensive. That area is already prime, and there is still potential (let's not forget this is already popular without MRT. By the time you buy at 2012, if an MRT station is really announced there, I don't think you stand a chance to buy anymore). I think if you can find a small development at $900 to $1,000psf along Telok Kurau, you should go for it. But there is a difference between Telok Kurau and the other side so capital appreciation won't be that much. You need to decide if the size and needs are more important or investment potential. If it is about investment, try getting on at Amber/Meyer Road. Or check out those near Joo Chiat area, like Spring@katong.

gfoo
28-11-10, 16:31
Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad. :)

i would wait

DC33_2008
28-11-10, 16:54
I suppose it is better to have hope rather than no hope at all.
I guess I will rather be stressed but have higher chances for good results than not to get stressed and risk my child's potential for good results. But that is just me as others prefer to take their own pace. The topic here started because of Penguin's interest to enroll the child in Tao Nan, so if he agrees that this is not important, he should look at Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Yishun, etc. The apartments there are big and more affordable. But he has to be content and happy with the schools located there and not get stressed by anything, and not employ any tutors - just let his son/daughter learn at his/her pace and only if they want.

Wild Falcon
28-11-10, 17:11
Teachers forcing poorer students to take tuition in Tao Nan? This is depressing.

I recall for some years, there are students from neighbourhood schools who top the PSLE results. And there are poor-performing students from Tao Nan/good schools as well. Just that they are not trumpeted as much :)

If you're confident your child is so smart such that he doesn't need affiliation, then any school will do. Affiliation makes a lot of difference if one's child might be just average academically or are the late bloomer playful type. Getting into say SCGS, St Nicks, MGS, SJI, Catholic High almost guarantee you a place in their secondary school - and these are Band 1 secondary schools even though they take in all their affiliated students with very poor results which means their value-add in secondary school is very high. These schools also provide a all-rounded education and students don't end up too "square". So if one's child is a late bloomer, having affiliation does take away some stress in their childhood. I always believe the secondary school formation years is the most important to ensure the child doesn't go down the "wrong" path - so affiliation to a band 1 secondary school does provide some comfort.

But then if giving some stress in a tuition environment and results-oriented system is what you're looking for, then Tao Nan may just be right. But you just have to bear in mind if your child end up "average" in PSLE (say 240), he probably will have to end up in mediocre secondary school.

As for buying a property, I wouldn't buy anything today - anywhere.


DC33 2008,

I am all ready to be a Parent-Volunteer or even join GR! (I'm the mummy) haha.. I heard the latter is a sure-get-in, or 99% chance. Anyway, talking abt stress, Im sure Tao nan will have it's fair share of stress, judging from the way the school system is. I have heard of teachers asking the poorer students to get tutors. I am confident my boy will be comfortable in Tao Nan. :) I believe some pressure will do kids good; make them more ambitious and motivated to excel is a good trait. I never like my boy to be in his comfort-zone for too long. But I have to agree with you - parents who send their kids to top schools have to be mentally prepared for the stress, and must be very involved in their kid's schoolwork.

DC33_2008
28-11-10, 17:21
I concur with you on these points based on past experience. This is like property investment. Go for a win-win strategy and sleep in comfort. I could see there is a different between the true-blue students compared to those come in at Secondary or college level when they come to the University.
Teachers forcing poorer students to take tuition in Tao Nan? This is depressing.

I recall for some years, there are students from neighbourhood schools who top the PSLE results. And there are poor-performing students from Tao Nan/good schools as well. Just that they are not trumpeted as much :)

If you're confident your child is so smart such that he doesn't need affiliation, then any school will do. Affiliation makes a lot of difference if one's child might be just average academically or are the late bloomer playful type. Getting into say SCGS, St Nicks, MGS, SJI, Catholic High almost guarantee you a place in their secondary school - and these are Band 1 secondary schools even though they take in all their affiliated students with very poor results which means their value-add in secondary school is very high. These schools also provide a all-rounded education and students don't end up too "square". So if one's child is a late bloomer, having affiliation does take away some stress in their childhood. I always believe the secondary school formation years is the most important to ensure the child doesn't go down the "wrong" path - so affiliation to a band 1 secondary school does provide some comfort.

But then if giving some stress in a tuition environment and results-oriented system is what you're looking for, then Tao Nan may just be right. But you just have to bear in mind if your child end up "average" in PSLE (say 240), he probably will have to end up in mediocre secondary school.

As for buying a property, I wouldn't buy anything today - anywhere.

reuters
28-11-10, 19:44
i would wait


I think nobody can predict for sure if the property price will definitely drop or rise. Even if price drops, the drop rate is not consistent across the island at all because some places will always be more prime than others. Unless the government decides to build alot of public housing in this area making housing very affordable here, the only choice is to go for whatever projects are on sale here (new or resale, private or HDB).

What we know for sure however, is that the bank interest rates will definitely go up in time to come because we are already at rock bottom. Can we assume that the people in this area will panic and sell their houses/units when the interest rates rise considerably? If that is the reason of them selling at lower price, can you afford it with high bank interest? From the last economy crisis in 2008, it didn't seem like there was a panic to sell and the prices held on, so it may be easier to believe that the people who bought these apartments in this area are wealthy enough to hold onto the houses. They are still very much cheaper than those in River Valley, Newton, Bukit Timah, going at $2,000+ psf.

I think you should calculate your budget by 2012 and the loan you can/should take with a mind that the interest may be at say 3 to 4%, and wait if that is a better option.

bullman
28-11-10, 19:55
Hi Penguin,

I had the same views as you regarding enrolling my son to Tao Nan. As the bird highlighted a few months back, I am a non-pedigree parent who wish for my son to become pedigreed. In fact, my primary school close down long time ago liao. :D With this in mind, I bought into the Coralis so as to eligible for phase2B in future. Will also send my worker to do volunteer work on my behalf so as to boost chances by being within 1 Km and with volunteer work. Very Kiasu hor. :doh:

However, I have noticed that its getting increasing hard to enter TNS because of all the new projects sprouting out. Especially the MM developments, notice that the studios sell out with balloting? Parents having the same idea? The bottom line is not to bang all hopes on landing into TNS and looking at other alternatives just in case. Frankly, I can also qualify for NYPS, ACS primary and SJI just to be safe. So I will monitor the situation and register accordingly.

The above is my personal opinion and could be heavily biased. If you insist on buying into TK area, there is no such thing as a value buy now. Its just sniffing out a unit that is slightly cheaper than the last transacted but still way above the price of 2009. With respect to your timeline, why don't you consider buying a small inter terrace that is about 1500 -2000 sqft and rebuild? When you get back, its about TOP time and you can enjoy a nice new landed unit? Who knows, if property prices continue to climb even till then, I can only imagine how much the landed will be worth. :cheers1:

Most importantly, just buy what you are comfortable with and you will not need to predict the market. I buy at all times as I do not time my purchases despite reading "Timing the Real Estate Market". :scared-1:

amk
28-11-10, 20:06
Penguin r u 4/5 yrs away from P1 registration ? If yes u could still wait for another 2 yrs. TK area has seen a huge jump in price over the last 10 months. The level now is getting ridiculous, so much so that even FEO's silversea looks "reasonable" now. No one can predict the market, but for this particular area, it looks more peakish than the others.

Another thing u should take note. P1 registration "phases" system could change. For example a few yrs back there was no 2b/2c half half allocation. As of now, the hottest topic is PVs. Many parents complain to MOE abt PV system, saying it's very unfair, and urge MOE to abolish it. So dun plan too early unless u r really sure.

devilplate
28-11-10, 20:18
Penguin r u 4/5 yrs away from P1 registration ? If yes u could still wait for another 2 yrs. TK area has seen a huge jump in price over the last 10 months. The level now is getting ridiculous, so much so that even FEO's silversea looks "reasonable" now. No one can predict the market, but for this particular area, it looks more peakish than the others.



TK looks peakish?? i tink TK area gained too little from last yr bottom....haha...:p

1bedder in joo chiat/TK was about 900-1kpsf last yr bottom....now ard 1200psf....whereas clift from 1200psf to 1900psf....caspian from 600psf to ard 800-850psf now....one amber also appreciated more....TK is laggard la....

amk
28-11-10, 20:34
Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other

reuters
28-11-10, 20:44
Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other

In other words, Penguin should hope that people like Bullman will sell his Coralis suddenly in 2012 at a much cheaper price say... $1,000psf? hehehe

Bullman, will you accept this generous offer in 2012?

shauntanzs
28-11-10, 20:48
In other words, Penguin should hope that people like Bullman will sell his Coralis suddenly in 2012 at a much cheaper price say... $1,000psf? hehehe

Bullman, will you accept this generous offer in 2012?

I am 1st in the Q..:D

devilplate
28-11-10, 20:59
Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other

coralis and those boutique apts in telok kurau r different league....:doh:

coralis NOT in TK la:doh:

latest MM launch espira suites in TK Lor G,H around 1250-1300psf for their 1bedder...and tats new launch pricing....so resale probably cheaper at ard 1200psf

amk
28-11-10, 21:09
He's talking abt 1km within Tao Nan mah. Coralis is one of the decent projects that has livable units. Those MM types dun count lah.

devilplate
28-11-10, 21:11
He's talking abt 1km within Tao Nan mah. Coralis is one of the decent projects that has livable units. Those MM types dun count lah.

i am toking about capital appreciation from last yr bottom till now for apts in TK....which i tink is laggard

reuters
28-11-10, 21:25
i am toking about capital appreciation from last yr bottom till now for apts in TK....which i tink is laggard

For the property price to drop, the people living/owning the apartments here must be willing to sell at a much lower price and the potential buyer must refuse to buy even if there are further development plans around here.

So, Bullman, last offer on behalf of the poor penguin :) -> $700psf for your flat in 2012 okay? I'm sure you won't want to live there anymore once the cinema comes up next door right? too noisy.

amk
28-11-10, 21:28
Ok ok u r the TK expert ;) I irrevocably withdraw my statement that TK is peakish ;)

... Although MMs in TK at 1200 does not help penguin. He needs a home for real. ;)

devilplate
28-11-10, 21:36
TK Lor N prices still ok la...everywhr is expensive now...even geylang apts had appreciated this yr....

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/2099651/for-sale-the-ambrosia

duno genuine ad anot...but below 1100psf sounds ok for me

another one...

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/1879522/for-sale-the-lucent

ard 1kpsf for BUC/brandnew ok mah? boutique apts is like dat de...valuations usually lags behind one...unless tat projects got many MM units which got more transactions

shauntanzs
28-11-10, 21:55
For the property price to drop, the people living/owning the apartments here must be willing to sell at a much lower price and the potential buyer must refuse to buy even if there are further development plans around here.

So, Bullman, last offer on behalf of the poor penguin :) -> $700psf for your flat in 2012 okay? I'm sure you won't want to live there anymore once the cinema comes up next door right? too noisy.

I bid $701psf.. Please dun fight with me, I promise to share my profit with you after I offload it..:D

devilplate
28-11-10, 22:03
I bid $701psf.. Please dun fight with me, I promise to share my profit with you after I offload it..:D

very soon, 701psf cannot even buy geylang apts liao:p

reuters
28-11-10, 22:14
I bid $701psf.. Please dun fight with me, I promise to share my profit with you after I offload it..:D


I think some ppl will think $701psf is still too high! Nevermind. Let's all wait and wait and wait and wait. Perhaps people won't buy anymore apartments next year despite a possibility of huge bonuses awarded across the board. Perhaps all the foreigners will leave suddenly (for India?), and there will be fire sales everywhere. Hopefully the price drops after MRT comes up in 10 year's time. Hope hope hope.

shauntanzs
28-11-10, 22:33
Human nature lah.. They hope Korea war happen n price start to drop.. Even if price drop, they will start comparing the price still ex vs 2003 and wait for it to drop further. Before they knew it, price shoot back up again n hit all time high again. I once listened to an agent who said this. Those who see n wait will always see n wait. Those we dare to commit moves up with the majority.. Valid? To each individual opinon.. 50% analysis 50% heng suay lah..

reuters
28-11-10, 22:41
Human nature lah.. They hope Korea war happen n price start to drop.. Even if price drop, they will start comparing the price still ex vs 2003 and wait for it to drop further. Before they knew it, price shoot back up again n hit all time high again. I once listened to an agent who said this. Those who see n wait will always see n wait. Those we dare to commit moves up with the majority.. Valid? To each individual opinon.. 50% analysis 50% heng suay lah..

You are so right!! I read this book by Adam Khoo in June this year. He taught many ways to invest and concluded that even if we still do not know enough of the investment instruments, just buy the STI index because he predicted it will keep going up until the next crash which is not likely to be within the next few years. AND YET I DIDN'T BUY! :banghead: STI index went up by so much over the last 2 quarters. :doh:

devilplate
28-11-10, 22:46
You are so right!! I read this book by Adam Khoo in June this year. He taught many ways to invest and concluded that even if we still do not know enough of the investment instruments, just buy the STI index because he predicted it will keep going up until the next crash which is not likely to be within the next few years. AND YET I DIDN'T BUY! :banghead: STI index went up by so much over the last 2 quarters. :doh:

STI ETF....got dividend somemore...haha...:spliff:

reuters
28-11-10, 22:48
STI ETF....got dividend somemore...haha...:spliff:


I admit. I am one of those who wait and see, and see and wait. :scared-5:

jwong71
28-11-10, 22:49
very soon, 701psf cannot even buy geylang apts liao:p

geylang cant get loan for certain lorongs, Its more like cant loan much.

hyenergix
29-11-10, 05:03
When everyone wants to buy at the next condo launch, you know that we are near the peak already ;)

bullman
29-11-10, 06:51
In other words, Penguin should hope that people like Bullman will sell his Coralis suddenly in 2012 at a much cheaper price say... $1,000psf? hehehe

Bullman, will you accept this generous offer in 2012?

Wow that is indeed an excellent offer. However, I will wait till katong mall completes, ERL marine parade station is confirmed and the launch of ex paramount hotel before i sell it for even lower. :D

Anyway, as the devil highlighted, there is an increasing price gap between TK/tembeling and the marine parade/ amber area. If you want value buys, should check out the koon seng/ pulasan road area. I mentioned this earlier in the year. In fact i bought something there before I went for my trip with a 6% yield. I think you can get like 900-1100 psf over there. Depending on how you bargain.

bullman
29-11-10, 07:47
For the property price to drop, the people living/owning the apartments here must be willing to sell at a much lower price and the potential buyer must refuse to buy even if there are further development plans around here.

So, Bullman, last offer on behalf of the poor penguin :) -> $700psf for your flat in 2012 okay? I'm sure you won't want to live there anymore once the cinema comes up next door right? too noisy.

I am not planning to stay there. I bought 2 units of 2 br of 807 sqft. Too small for my family and me. Will be keeping for rental. Based on my high purchase price of 1400+ psf, the yield is 5% at best. Looking more at capital appreciation play here.

penguin
29-11-10, 08:24
Coralis is a nice devt, but I feel still too pricey. Im looking at 900+psf at most for a decent sized 3-bedder. Anything higher, I think I might as well consider a small inter-terrace. Im not sure if my thinking is right, I feel this way has the best chance for future capital appreciation. After all, as what the others say, I'm prepared to move along with my boy's school as he grows.

Reason why I won't consider anything along or above the 1000+psf mark is cos I feel not very worth paying so much for small boutique devts. If it is a decent size project with full facilities like Coralis, Parc Seabreeze, then that's different of course. But TK are mostly boutique devts, which I don't really foresee much capital gains if I buy at today's asking prices. I'm not sure if Im right about it though..

penguin
29-11-10, 08:35
devilplate,

I actually like The Lucent, esp the private jacuzzi. Are all the unit's living rooms facing the other block's living room? (which I thought I saw fr the floor plan) If yes, then how can the jacuzzi be 'private'? Also, last yr 1259sqft unit transacted at 852psf...you mean now it's worth to get The Lucent at almost 1K psf (1.3+m)? Im really skeptical that a 1324sqft unit can sell for 1.4m or higher in future should I wish to sell it after 3yrs.

And speaking abt Geylang, I feel the location is actually quite good...so central and near to so many mrt. But Geylang's psf will always be lower than the surrounding (without Geylang's address) due to the stigma in pple's minds. Just like Joo Chiat vs TK. I feel cannot compare these 2 areas and expect prices to match.

penguin
29-11-10, 08:40
hyenergix,

Last quarter of 2009 many pple were also rushing in at new condo launches, but prices also didnt peak then. In fact, from end of 2009 till now, I think prices rose quite a lot already. So I think it's hard to predict now. Really a gamble, thats why must take calculated risks.

devilplate
29-11-10, 09:22
devilplate,

I actually like The Lucent, esp the private jacuzzi. Are all the unit's living rooms facing the other block's living room? (which I thought I saw fr the floor plan) If yes, then how can the jacuzzi be 'private'? Also, last yr 1259sqft unit transacted at 852psf...you mean now it's worth to get The Lucent at almost 1K psf (1.3+m)? Im really skeptical that a 1324sqft unit can sell for 1.4m or higher in future should I wish to sell it after 3yrs.

And speaking abt Geylang, I feel the location is actually quite good...so central and near to so many mrt. But Geylang's psf will always be lower than the surrounding (without Geylang's address) due to the stigma in pple's minds. Just like Joo Chiat vs TK. I feel cannot compare these 2 areas and expect prices to match.

if lucent last yr transacted at 852psf and now only 1kpsf...den ITS A STEAL...super laggard...do u noe how much other areas had gone up? haha:p

inter terrace(landed), landed prices had gone up the most from last yr bottom! especially those inter terrace(small land) land psf is almost similar to the boutique apts psf....wow

i m not promoting TK as laggard in prices doesnt mean a good buy...cheap can be cheaper! but u goto be realistic....if u cannot accept brandnew projects in TK at 1-1.1kpsf....den i doubt other areas u can accept....

cant accept the current prices....just dun buy....u can take a gamble for prices to fall within 1-2yrs den u will be a winner....:D (i waited from sept 2007 till march 2009):spliff2:

btw, u can try to shop a unit in geylang now and u will not buy either:p

reuters
29-11-10, 09:51
if lucent last yr transacted at 852psf and now only 1kpsf...den ITS A STEAL...super laggard...do u noe how much other areas had gone up? haha:p

inter terrace(landed), landed prices had gone up the most from last yr bottom! especially those inter terrace(small land) land psf is almost similar to the boutique apts psf....wow

i m not promoting TK as laggard in prices doesnt mean a good buy...cheap can be cheaper! but u goto be realistic....if u cannot accept brandnew projects in TK at 1-1.1kpsf....den i doubt other areas u can accept....

cant accept the current prices....just dun buy....u can take a gamble for prices to fall within 1-2yrs den u will be a winner....:D (i waited from sept 2007 till march 2009):spliff2:

btw, u can try to shop a unit in geylang now and u will not buy either:p

Don't think Geylang is within 1km from Tao Nan School.... maybe the boy's future is no longer important! :p

penguin
29-11-10, 09:55
devilplate,

Im not referring to last yr's bottom. I meant lucent 3-bedder transacted at 852psf at last yr's peak (dec 09), and now they are asking 1k psf. You feel it's still laggard? hmm... u must be rich.

Anyway, I am looking at resale units as I think that is still within my reach (don't wanna overstretch. I know my own limits). I hope to get a condo with abt 40-50 units and above, not too small. I know there are still old condos (probably 5-8yrs) asking 800psf, which is my budget for a decent sized 3-bedder, but I need to slowly fish them out. I am just seeking forumers' advice here on which devt (1km within Tao Nan) that they think is a good location, nice to stay, and still asking near last transacted prices.

penguin
29-11-10, 09:59
Geylang is near Kong Hwa Pri which is also a rather good school, u know? But I wont stay in Geylang due to the environment reasons, plus messy, heavy traffic and too many one-way streets.

mantrix
29-11-10, 10:03
Best buy - The Sound by FEO :D

devilplate
29-11-10, 10:21
Geylang is near Kong Hwa Pri which is also a rather good school, u know? But I wont stay in Geylang due to the environment reasons, plus messy, heavy traffic and too many one-way streets.

of coz i noe as i got vested interest in tat area...lol:p

devilplate
29-11-10, 10:23
devilplate,

Im not referring to last yr's bottom. I meant lucent 3-bedder transacted at 852psf at last yr's peak (dec 09), and now they are asking 1k psf. You feel it's still laggard? hmm... u must be rich.

Anyway, I am looking at resale units as I think that is still within my reach (don't wanna overstretch. I know my own limits). I hope to get a condo with abt 40-50 units and above, not too small. I know there are still old condos (probably 5-8yrs) asking 800psf, which is my budget for a decent sized 3-bedder, but I need to slowly fish them out. I am just seeking forumers' advice here on which devt (1km within Tao Nan) that they think is a good location, nice to stay, and still asking near last transacted prices.

u just sold ur place? den whr u putting up now?

penguin
29-11-10, 10:33
Yes just sold our place...have been in USA since Oct and will be there for 2yrs due to work posting. That's why Im considering whether to buy now, 2010 or just wait till end of 2012. Judging from your comments, I don't think you will buy any units now, am I right?

penguin
29-11-10, 10:45
If a 3-bedder in a low-rise devt transacted in Aug 2010 at 950psf for a 1200sqft unit (1.14m), how much would you bargain for a 3-bedder, 1700sqft unit in the same project? (considering out of 1700sqft, probably only 1300+ is built-in area).

reuters
29-11-10, 10:56
devilplate,

Im not referring to last yr's bottom. I meant lucent 3-bedder transacted at 852psf at last yr's peak (dec 09), and now they are asking 1k psf. You feel it's still laggard? hmm... u must be rich.

Anyway, I am looking at resale units as I think that is still within my reach (don't wanna overstretch. I know my own limits). I hope to get a condo with abt 40-50 units and above, not too small. I know there are still old condos (probably 5-8yrs) asking 800psf, which is my budget for a decent sized 3-bedder, but I need to slowly fish them out. I am just seeking forumers' advice here on which devt (1km within Tao Nan) that they think is a good location, nice to stay, and still asking near last transacted prices.

I like this one:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/424638/for-sale-coastarina

But I am not sure if other units are asking 900psf (or thereabouts). This is freehold somemore, and only about 4, 5 years old. I like the fact that it does not belong to that stretch with small buildings sandwiched together. It is in the middle of both Tao Nan School and Siglap, which also has upside potential. You should check this out!

Laguna
29-11-10, 11:08
Instead of TK, one should consider St Patrick area, which is within walking distance to TNS.

I personally perfer St Patrick area, project like Grand Duchess, 600m to TNS, a much better value than any project in TK.

One consideration perhaps is to find a place within walking distance, as school bus is getting more expensive and did not cater for CCA timing.

devilplate
29-11-10, 11:14
Instead of TK, one should consider St Patrick area, which is within walking distance to TNS.

I personally perfer St Patrick area, project like Grand Duchess, 600m to TNS, a much better value than any project in TK.

One consideration perhaps is to find a place within walking distance, as school bus is getting more expensive and did not cater for CCA timing.

i tink grand duchess is out of penguin's budget.....she oredi say overstretched for 1kpsf

her budget shd be around 1.2mil

penguin
29-11-10, 11:16
reuters,

Yes I saw that one too! But a pity its only a 2-bedder. I am assuming they have a rather large roof terrace, as from the pics I can see it's a PH. But nice project. :)

penguin
29-11-10, 11:22
laguna,

I see st patricks as a more 'premium' area compared to TK, so def would cost more, can understand. But i the traffic can get rather heavy every morning due to CHIJ right?

devilplate,

Yes u're right. My budget is ard 1.2m for TK area. But I dun mind paying a higher quantum for a larger unit with a lower psf, or if location is good, like nearer to Katong Mall/Parkway side.

patricia
29-11-10, 11:29
Yes just sold our place...have been in USA since Oct and will be there for 2yrs due to work posting. That's why Im considering whether to buy now, 2010 or just wait till end of 2012. Judging from your comments, I don't think you will buy any units now, am I right?
Since you will be in US for 2 years and property price in US is at rock bottom price and those in Singapore is in sky high, use your money to buy property in US. Forget about Singapore.

Emma
29-11-10, 11:44
If a 3-bedder in a low-rise devt transacted in Aug 2010 at 950psf for a 1200sqft unit (1.14m), how much would you bargain for a 3-bedder, 1700sqft unit in the same project? (considering out of 1700sqft, probably only 1300+ is built-in area).

Actually what is the budget you have in mind? 1.14 Mil for a 1200sqf seems a reasonable price in today's climate for that area. but I would feel any immediate potential capital gain (horizon of 1 year or so) from this psf amount will be quite slight and small developments (not sure if the low rise dev you mentioned is also a small development) usually are not so much in high demand once the property age exceeds 5 years imo (due to maintenance). Not that the property is not worth that price but less people are willing to pay at that price.

if possible, I think most people would still go for big developments

penguin
29-11-10, 12:24
Patricia,

Im based in Texas now, and in a city where property prices have been more or less stable for the past 5yrs. Have done a research before coming over, concluded not worth any capital gains in 2yrs, unless buying for LT lease. States like New York or Florida, where property prices are more volatile make the better investments. Anyway, once we are back in spore, we would still need to get a house. Just afraid (if we don't buy now) when that time comes, property prices would be much higher than now. Then I'll really regret selling my unit now. :mad:


Emma,

If there's still a unit there at 1.14m (for 1200sqft), I would probably have bought it. But a pity, that was sold in Aug 10' and the only other unit for sale in that devt currently is a bigger PH 1700sqft, which is spacious and I like it too. But owner is asking 1.5m nego, which I feel is too exp, considering it has only abt 1300+sqft of built-in, and abt 400sqft of open roof terrace. So Im thinking what is a good price to bargain. Usually, PH should have lower psf right? This devt has 50+ units.

blackfire
29-11-10, 12:38
laguna,

I see st patricks as a more 'premium' area compared to TK, so def would cost more, can understand. But i the traffic can get rather heavy every morning due to CHIJ right?

devilplate,

Yes u're right. My budget is ard 1.2m for TK area. But I dun mind paying a higher quantum for a larger unit with a lower psf, or if location is good, like nearer to Katong Mall/Parkway side.

u can try smaller older projects like Parkway view, Palladium, etc. But I think they are within 2km but less than 1km from Tao Nan. Have to check.

reuters
29-11-10, 12:39
reuters,

Yes I saw that one too! But a pity its only a 2-bedder. I am assuming they have a rather large roof terrace, as from the pics I can see it's a PH. But nice project. :)

Penguin,

I have observed that the location around Katong Mall is really not bad. Lots of good food, supermarket, cafes and very short walking distance to Parkway Parade. Check this out:

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/2162148/for-sale-ceylon-crest

3 bedder, freehold and about 1,200sqft. If you can bargain it down to 850psf, it may be a good buy! This area has those preserved shophouses so I don't think developers can clear any building here except to go for collective sale like Paramount Hotel nearby. Also, observe 2 things around this area - there is a rather under-utilized carpark at Katong Village. If you walk from Ceylon Crest straight towards Parkway Parade, you come across a rather small Katong Park that looks more like a prominent bus stop (or potential MRT station?).

penguin
29-11-10, 13:06
blackfire,

U're right! Those 2 are very good location and are within 1km fr Tao Nan too. Yeah...I dun mind 8yr devt...can spruce it up with some reno and look just as good as BN units. hee... I will keep track on them. Thanks!!


reuters,

You have a good observation. That area is indeed a good one. But you mean that unit asking 995psf can bargain down to 850psf? Quite hard right? Or is this the norm for prices on propertyguru? As in they always priced much higher than what they are willing to sell?

Emma
29-11-10, 13:14
Patricia,

Im based in Texas now, and in a city where property prices have been more or less stable for the past 5yrs. Have done a research before coming over, concluded not worth any capital gains in 2yrs, unless buying for LT lease. States like New York or Florida, where property prices are more volatile make the better investments. Anyway, once we are back in spore, we would still need to get a house. Just afraid (if we don't buy now) when that time comes, property prices would be much higher than now. Then I'll really regret selling my unit now. :mad:


Emma,

If there's still a unit there at 1.14m (for 1200sqft), I would probably have bought it. But a pity, that was sold in Aug 10' and the only other unit for sale in that devt currently is a bigger PH 1700sqft, which is spacious and I like it too. But owner is asking 1.5m nego, which I feel is too exp, considering it has only abt 1300+sqft of built-in, and abt 400sqft of open roof terrace. So Im thinking what is a good price to bargain. Usually, PH should have lower psf right? This devt has 50+ units.

yes generally psf for larger units should be cheaper relative to smaller units in same developments. then for this PH unit with 1700 psf ( i believe roof terrace is also considered built in area ?), what is the comfortable price you are looking at?

reuters
29-11-10, 13:28
blackfire,

U're right! Those 2 are very good location and are within 1km fr Tao Nan too. Yeah...I dun mind 8yr devt...can spruce it up with some reno and look just as good as BN units. hee... I will keep track on them. Thanks!!


reuters,

You have a good observation. That area is indeed a good one. But you mean that unit asking 995psf can bargain down to 850psf? Quite hard right? Or is this the norm for prices on propertyguru? As in they always priced much higher than what they are willing to sell?

No harm trying right? You can always send a message to the agent to ask. I think 900psf is very good, but 850psf is a bargain. It is not a big property so you should use this point to negotiate with them :) I have been around that area on foot. Not bad except for a temple nearby which may be a bit noisy, but otherwise that area's location is good.

Emma
29-11-10, 15:10
Hey reuters, seems like you really do your homework. If i am looking for a property to invest in, budget about $1.4-1.5mil in D15, are there any projects you would recommend?

Emma
29-11-10, 15:42
Patricia,

Im based in Texas now, and in a city where property prices have been more or less stable for the past 5yrs. Have done a research before coming over, concluded not worth any capital gains in 2yrs, unless buying for LT lease. States like New York or Florida, where property prices are more volatile make the better investments. Anyway, once we are back in spore, we would still need to get a house. Just afraid (if we don't buy now) when that time comes, property prices would be much higher than now. Then I'll really regret selling my unit now. :mad:


Emma,

If there's still a unit there at 1.14m (for 1200sqft), I would probably have bought it. But a pity, that was sold in Aug 10' and the only other unit for sale in that devt currently is a bigger PH 1700sqft, which is spacious and I like it too. But owner is asking 1.5m nego, which I feel is too exp, considering it has only abt 1300+sqft of built-in, and abt 400sqft of open roof terrace. So Im thinking what is a good price to bargain. Usually, PH should have lower psf right? This devt has 50+ units.

Hi Penguin
Have you considered the sound? not sure if it will top by 2012 though.
The sound is also at telok kurau if i remember correctly.

reuters
29-11-10, 19:05
Hey reuters, seems like you really do your homework. If i am looking for a property to invest in, budget about $1.4-1.5mil in D15, are there any projects you would recommend?

Hi Emma,

Wow, your budget is quite substantial to work with actually. This is my analysis of the area:

> One Amber, Esta and The Sea View:
I classify these 3 together because they are all near to one another and also because they are all freehold and large estates. If you have enough money, you should still go in to buy one of the units here although you are likely to find that the prices are either about 950k for studios or above 1.8mil for the other apartments - quite hard to find something that fits within the 1.4 - 1.5mil budget because there is still potential for the studios to go up to 1 million since there are really not many studios in these three properties. You will find the asking psf to range from 1,200 to possibly 1,700psf because of the indicative prices by Silversea (only 99 leasehold!) nearby. Somehow, there is a 'feel good' factor with these three because the areas are large and they look more established. Views are not bad for this area, but I will rank views as secondary compared to location. These three properties are very near to Katong Mall, Katong Shopping Centre, Paramount Hotel/Shopping Centre and Parkway Parade. If you ask me, this place REALLY needs an MRT station.

> The Sea View
Exterior-wise, they are nothing fanciful but Sea View definitely has the loveliest interior. Check out Sea View's pools, clubhouse, art, and nice lobbies. All the lobbies in Sea View are classy unlike Shore Residences which only offers this to their 'premium block'. You should also visit Sea View's clubhouse which has a long history and now preserved as a heritage building. The history of Amber Road itself has to do with this site actually because the 3 Elias family owned the stretch (named after the father 'Amber Elias' of the Elias brothers). This was also the site of some bungalow of a socialite and the location of the former Sea View hotel. (I love history) :)
Other than the location, the layout of the apartments here are very sensible, except for the large balconies. Otherwise, you will find that the space for the air-con compressor and bomb shelter are outside the apartment so that they do not take up space. Finishing is lovely too.

> One Amber
I also like this property because of the views offered by the units facing South. There are pocket sea views but everyone also knows that it means 'tanker' views, so after awhile, it is really no big deal. Again I love the space and the 'feel good' factor. However, the layout is not that ideal here. The bomb shelter can be located in the bedroom! I think the idea is to use it as a walk-in wardrobe but I find it strange. It is a bit like walking into a money vault where you possibly keep your gold. It also uses sliding doors which makes it feel a bit cheap although I suppose that saves space. The entrance to this property is also quite stupid. The entrance is from the back, so if you turn in from ECP into East Coast Road, you need to go all the way past Sea View, enter the roundabout, then try to turn into the side road into this area. I find that troublesome because of this traffic issue (cars from East Coast cannot enter this side road before the roundabout. No right turn).

> Esta
I rather like this too because of the size and you may find some 2+study units at 1.5mil. I will say that this is possible to consider, although I am really not sure if it is easy to rent out a 2+study unit here. I personally find it easier to rent a studio to an expat at a more affordable rate than try to rent bigger units like this, unless this has some incredible sea view.

> Other properties
There are also the MM-packed Haig 162 and all those Mountbatten Suites, etc, but those look like very small properties and I am not sure if that will attract rentals since I assume you intend to rent it out for investment and rental yield? Those are also slightly further away from the underpass to East Coast Park and not exactly accessible by a short walk - more like a rather long walk! The Palladium looks quite cheap and the windows look horrible. Though it is also freehold, I don't think this condo is attractive enough to command a premium price. It already looks a bit old!

> Parc Seabreeze
Love the location, but this is definitely expensive and I am not sure if staying too near a church is a good idea - very crowded! But it is going to be one of the condos nearest to Katong Mall and Marine Parade town centre.

> Suites@Amber
Can consider this if you have the budget! This is also freehold and very new, in a good location, with seaview! If it is not too big a unit, I'm sure expats will like it as well. Check it out!!

Douk
29-11-10, 19:24
laguna,

I see st patricks as a more 'premium' area compared to TK, so def would cost more, can understand. But i the traffic can get rather heavy every morning due to CHIJ right?

devilplate,

Yes u're right. My budget is ard 1.2m for TK area. But I dun mind paying a higher quantum for a larger unit with a lower psf, or if location is good, like nearer to Katong Mall/Parkway side.

St pat school side is not that bad.

Douk
29-11-10, 19:29
blackfire,

U're right! Those 2 are very good location and are within 1km fr Tao Nan too. Yeah...I dun mind 8yr devt...can spruce it up with some reno and look just as good as BN units. hee... I will keep track on them. Thanks!!


reuters,

You have a good observation. That area is indeed a good one. But you mean that unit asking 995psf can bargain down to 850psf? Quite hard right? Or is this the norm for prices on propertyguru? As in they always priced much higher than what they are willing to sell?


Did u try sea avenue?

penguin
30-11-10, 05:03
Emma,

I find The Sound way way over-priced, and also out of my budget. But then again I would rather go for Lucent, if I had the budget. :rolleyes:

Douk,

Sea Avenue location is not bad too, but i find these older projects harder to come by. Either residents there do not wanna sell, or they get snapped up too fast.

Laguna
30-11-10, 09:26
My view :

ur not g'tee a place at TNS, neither ur associated with Hokkien Assocation, nor can be volunteer to the school

An option to consider is to rent a place first, this will give u a better flexibility.

The Sound : rule out, over-priced and not a great project. No basement carpark, small land. U can buy St Pat area at a better value

Emma
30-11-10, 10:32
Hi Emma,

Wow, your budget is quite substantial to work with actually. This is my analysis of the area:

> One Amber, Esta and The Sea View:
I classify these 3 together because they are all near to one another and also because they are all freehold and large estates. If you have enough money, you should still go in to buy one of the units here although you are likely to find that the prices are either about 950k for studios or above 1.8mil for the other apartments - quite hard to find something that fits within the 1.4 - 1.5mil budget because there is still potential for the studios to go up to 1 million since there are really not many studios in these three properties. You will find the asking psf to range from 1,200 to possibly 1,700psf because of the indicative prices by Silversea (only 99 leasehold!) nearby. Somehow, there is a 'feel good' factor with these three because the areas are large and they look more established. Views are not bad for this area, but I will rank views as secondary compared to location. These three properties are very near to Katong Mall, Katong Shopping Centre, Paramount Hotel/Shopping Centre and Parkway Parade. If you ask me, this place REALLY needs an MRT station.

> The Sea View
Exterior-wise, they are nothing fanciful but Sea View definitely has the loveliest interior. Check out Sea View's pools, clubhouse, art, and nice lobbies. All the lobbies in Sea View are classy unlike Shore Residences which only offers this to their 'premium block'. You should also visit Sea View's clubhouse which has a long history and now preserved as a heritage building. The history of Amber Road itself has to do with this site actually because the 3 Elias family owned the stretch (named after the father 'Amber Elias' of the Elias brothers). This was also the site of some bungalow of a socialite and the location of the former Sea View hotel. (I love history) :)
Other than the location, the layout of the apartments here are very sensible, except for the large balconies. Otherwise, you will find that the space for the air-con compressor and bomb shelter are outside the apartment so that they do not take up space. Finishing is lovely too.

> One Amber
I also like this property because of the views offered by the units facing South. There are pocket sea views but everyone also knows that it means 'tanker' views, so after awhile, it is really no big deal. Again I love the space and the 'feel good' factor. However, the layout is not that ideal here. The bomb shelter can be located in the bedroom! I think the idea is to use it as a walk-in wardrobe but I find it strange. It is a bit like walking into a money vault where you possibly keep your gold. It also uses sliding doors which makes it feel a bit cheap although I suppose that saves space. The entrance to this property is also quite stupid. The entrance is from the back, so if you turn in from ECP into East Coast Road, you need to go all the way past Sea View, enter the roundabout, then try to turn into the side road into this area. I find that troublesome because of this traffic issue (cars from East Coast cannot enter this side road before the roundabout. No right turn).

> Esta
I rather like this too because of the size and you may find some 2+study units at 1.5mil. I will say that this is possible to consider, although I am really not sure if it is easy to rent out a 2+study unit here. I personally find it easier to rent a studio to an expat at a more affordable rate than try to rent bigger units like this, unless this has some incredible sea view.

> Other properties
There are also the MM-packed Haig 162 and all those Mountbatten Suites, etc, but those look like very small properties and I am not sure if that will attract rentals since I assume you intend to rent it out for investment and rental yield? Those are also slightly further away from the underpass to East Coast Park and not exactly accessible by a short walk - more like a rather long walk! The Palladium looks quite cheap and the windows look horrible. Though it is also freehold, I don't think this condo is attractive enough to command a premium price. It already looks a bit old!

> Parc Seabreeze
Love the location, but this is definitely expensive and I am not sure if staying too near a church is a good idea - very crowded! But it is going to be one of the condos nearest to Katong Mall and Marine Parade town centre.

> Suites@Amber
Can consider this if you have the budget! This is also freehold and very new, in a good location, with seaview! If it is not too big a unit, I'm sure expats will like it as well. Check it out!!

Hi Reuters
Thanks for your detailed analysis!
I have an unit at one amber currently and am looking for a second one to invest in if there's a right one. $1.5- 1.6 mil seems quite tight for a unit in OA, esta or seaview now. I will check out the suites@amber though.
I generally prefer big developments so if you have further thoughts or recommendations, please let me know. much appreciated!

Emma
30-11-10, 10:37
Hi Reuters
suites@amber has a very good location but the development only has 28 units, we prefer big developments but the pictures look lovely though! And I like the amber road/ gardens area.
Do you agree that smaller developments will have more maintenance issues down the road and thus affecting the resale value relative to similar properties in the same vicinity. Cos this is primiarily the main factor that is making me resistant to getting units in small developments. I find that if it's a small development, i personally wouldn't hold it for more than 5 years and cos my investment horizon is 10 years or so, for this reason the smaller dev don't fit into my timescales. thoughts?

reuters
30-11-10, 11:46
Hi Reuters
suites@amber has a very good location but the development only has 28 units, we prefer big developments but the pictures look lovely though! And I like the amber road/ gardens area.
Do you agree that smaller developments will have more maintenance issues down the road and thus affecting the resale value relative to similar properties in the same vicinity. Cos this is primiarily the main factor that is making me resistant to getting units in small developments. I find that if it's a small development, i personally wouldn't hold it for more than 5 years and cos my investment horizon is 10 years or so, for this reason the smaller dev don't fit into my timescales. thoughts?

Hi Emma

I totally agree with you that bigger developments are more attractive with more amenities and feel more expensive and upscale. If only they are not so expensive, I really like the AALTO and Seafront On Meyer. Have you also checked out Riveredge at Tanjong Rhu? Also nice location. I find Suites@Amber good enough to consider because it is very near to the underpass to East Coast Park! If Silversea is priced at $1,700psf, this one has good potential too because its views should not be too bad! I think expats will like it :)

Emma
30-11-10, 11:51
Hi Emma

I totally agree with you that bigger developments are more attractive with more amenities and feel more expensive and upscale. If only they are not so expensive, I really like the AALTO and Seafront On Meyer. Have you also checked out Riveredge at Tanjong Rhu? Also nice location. I find Suites@Amber good enough to consider because it is very near to the underpass to East Coast Park! If Silversea is priced at $1,700psf, this one has good potential too because its views should not be too bad! I think expats will like it :)

Hi Reuters

I am only interested in freehold developments - so that rules out riveredge (is that the near one near to dunman high school, some units face the volvo workshop??) and silversea, and the shore. and aalto and seafront on meyer are way way above my budget so might need to wait and save more money first...

Emma
30-11-10, 11:58
if there is another big project going to be launched, freehold, in D 15 (but not Tk area), high rise somewhat like seaview, one amber and esta, i will most likely buy immediately but i think silversea and the shore are the last of the big projects in that area and they are not even freehold.

proud owner
30-11-10, 12:01
Hi Emma

I totally agree with you that bigger developments are more attractive with more amenities and feel more expensive and upscale. If only they are not so expensive, I really like the AALTO and Seafront On Meyer. Have you also checked out Riveredge at Tanjong Rhu? Also nice location. I find Suites@Amber good enough to consider because it is very near to the underpass to East Coast Park! If Silversea is priced at $1,700psf, this one has good potential too because its views should not be too bad! I think expats will like it :)

big projects will have people like Mr Sia ... whose car is 'sick' and mechanic from JB

Laguna
30-11-10, 13:31
just visited AALTO and Seafront On Meyer, very impressed by the built quality of Aalto.
For Aalto, Look like the prices have been lowered by the developer

eng81157
30-11-10, 14:05
Hi Emma,

Wow, your budget is quite substantial to work with actually. This is my analysis of the area:

> One Amber, Esta and The Sea View:
I classify these 3 together because they are all near to one another and also because they are all freehold and large estates. If you have enough money, you should still go in to buy one of the units here although you are likely to find that the prices are either about 950k for studios or above 1.8mil for the other apartments - quite hard to find something that fits within the 1.4 - 1.5mil budget because there is still potential for the studios to go up to 1 million since there are really not many studios in these three properties. You will find the asking psf to range from 1,200 to possibly 1,700psf because of the indicative prices by Silversea (only 99 leasehold!) nearby. Somehow, there is a 'feel good' factor with these three because the areas are large and they look more established. Views are not bad for this area, but I will rank views as secondary compared to location. These three properties are very near to Katong Mall, Katong Shopping Centre, Paramount Hotel/Shopping Centre and Parkway Parade. If you ask me, this place REALLY needs an MRT station.

> The Sea View
Exterior-wise, they are nothing fanciful but Sea View definitely has the loveliest interior. Check out Sea View's pools, clubhouse, art, and nice lobbies. All the lobbies in Sea View are classy unlike Shore Residences which only offers this to their 'premium block'. You should also visit Sea View's clubhouse which has a long history and now preserved as a heritage building. The history of Amber Road itself has to do with this site actually because the 3 Elias family owned the stretch (named after the father 'Amber Elias' of the Elias brothers). This was also the site of some bungalow of a socialite and the location of the former Sea View hotel. (I love history) :)
Other than the location, the layout of the apartments here are very sensible, except for the large balconies. Otherwise, you will find that the space for the air-con compressor and bomb shelter are outside the apartment so that they do not take up space. Finishing is lovely too.

> One Amber
I also like this property because of the views offered by the units facing South. There are pocket sea views but everyone also knows that it means 'tanker' views, so after awhile, it is really no big deal. Again I love the space and the 'feel good' factor. However, the layout is not that ideal here. The bomb shelter can be located in the bedroom! I think the idea is to use it as a walk-in wardrobe but I find it strange. It is a bit like walking into a money vault where you possibly keep your gold. It also uses sliding doors which makes it feel a bit cheap although I suppose that saves space. The entrance to this property is also quite stupid. The entrance is from the back, so if you turn in from ECP into East Coast Road, you need to go all the way past Sea View, enter the roundabout, then try to turn into the side road into this area. I find that troublesome because of this traffic issue (cars from East Coast cannot enter this side road before the roundabout. No right turn).

> Esta
I rather like this too because of the size and you may find some 2+study units at 1.5mil. I will say that this is possible to consider, although I am really not sure if it is easy to rent out a 2+study unit here. I personally find it easier to rent a studio to an expat at a more affordable rate than try to rent bigger units like this, unless this has some incredible sea view.

> Other properties
There are also the MM-packed Haig 162 and all those Mountbatten Suites, etc, but those look like very small properties and I am not sure if that will attract rentals since I assume you intend to rent it out for investment and rental yield? Those are also slightly further away from the underpass to East Coast Park and not exactly accessible by a short walk - more like a rather long walk! The Palladium looks quite cheap and the windows look horrible. Though it is also freehold, I don't think this condo is attractive enough to command a premium price. It already looks a bit old!

> Parc Seabreeze
Love the location, but this is definitely expensive and I am not sure if staying too near a church is a good idea - very crowded! But it is going to be one of the condos nearest to Katong Mall and Marine Parade town centre.

> Suites@Amber
Can consider this if you have the budget! This is also freehold and very new, in a good location, with seaview! If it is not too big a unit, I'm sure expats will like it as well. Check it out!!

if i'm not wrong, one amber, esta and suites@amber aren't located within the 1km radius. The Sea View is on the fringe so I guess you have to check with the school about that.

Parc Seabreeze, and its neighbour - Coralis, is safely within the 1km mark. Of course, there are plenty of other developments to choose from and am just responding to the list of recommendations

Emma
30-11-10, 14:07
just visited AALTO and Seafront On Meyer, very impressed by the built quality of Aalto.
For Aalto, Look like the prices have been lowered by the developer

really? what's the psf? but the units there are quite huge.

hyenergix
30-11-10, 16:19
hyenergix,

Last quarter of 2009 many pple were also rushing in at new condo launches, but prices also didnt peak then. In fact, from end of 2009 till now, I think prices rose quite a lot already. So I think it's hard to predict now. Really a gamble, thats why must take calculated risks.

In 2009, there was a massive economic recovery and a pent-up demand for condos. This is helped by the low interest rates. Agents had a lot of stories like IRs, F1 etc to lure buyers. We should be quite near the peak of the property cycle for condos. Buy to rent out or for capital gain is quite risky now.

Emma
30-11-10, 17:15
In 2009, there was a massive economic recovery and a pent-up demand for condos. This is helped by the low interest rates. Agents had a lot of stories like IRs, F1 etc to lure buyers. We should be quite near the peak of the property cycle for condos. Buy to rent out or for capital gain is quite risky now.
but i feel prices will be maintained at current levels for quite some time and then rise again in the next cycle from this point again. I actually don't foresee prices coming down from this point in the market as the market is comprising mostly of genuine buyers and sellers now. the prices are high now but i think there will still be good capital gain in the mid term if you choose your purchases carefully.

DC33_2008
30-11-10, 17:22
Good gem is more difficult to find. Anyone attended the auction by knight frank?

reuters
30-11-10, 18:58
but i feel prices will be maintained at current levels for quite some time and then rise again in the next cycle from this point again. I actually don't foresee prices coming down from this point in the market as the market is comprising mostly of genuine buyers and sellers now. the prices are high now but i think there will still be good capital gain in the mid term if you choose your purchases carefully.

Totally agree with Emma on this point. These days, the steps to getting a home loan approval are so stringent and the situation here is different from that type of bubble that happened with US home foreclosures. If the price falls, it may mean that Singapore's economy fundamentals are problematic leading to potential crisis. But when that happens, you will be affected whether you have bought a condo or not.

dragonred
30-11-10, 21:46
Hey reuters, seems like you really do your homework. If i am looking for a property to invest in, budget about $1.4-1.5mil in D15, are there any projects you would recommend?

Does anyone here have a POV on Katong Gardens? It's an older condo, tucked away off Tembling road. Within 1 km of Tao Nan.

penguin
30-11-10, 22:56
Just called a few agents abt the katong and TK units, and wow...they sound rather bullish abt the market. Some even insisted the asking psf is very reasonable in today's market. I have this uneasy feeling something not so good is going to happen next yr.

reuters
30-11-10, 23:03
Just called a few agents abt the katong and TK units, and wow...they sound rather bullish abt the market. Some even insisted the asking psf is very reasonable in today's market. I have this uneasy feeling something not so good is going to happen next yr.

I think it is best that you wait till you feel good about buying a place instead of purchasing it by emotional pressure. The only consequence of course is that there is a possibility that you may have to buy at a higher price later if the price refuses to drop as you had hoped, but Tao Nan is not the only good primary school around so you may end up buying near other good schools too.

penguin
30-11-10, 23:03
Oh Im referring to resale units by the way.

Emma,

May I get your view why you think prices will be maintained for some time, before rising again next cycle (when? how soon?) You feel the potential govt curbs are not going to affect the market; massive supply of units going to TOP in 2012-2014 has enough demand to take them up, and when interest rates start rising? Very much appreciated! :)

devilplate
30-11-10, 23:04
Just called a few agents abt the katong and TK units, and wow...they sound rather bullish abt the market. Some even insisted the asking psf is very reasonable in today's market. I have this uneasy feeling something not so good is going to happen next yr.

of coz u feels uneasy....jus sold and cannot buy back anyting at reasonable price

nvm la....2yrs later if prices nvr drop...u can always buy a HDB to stay:D

penguin
30-11-10, 23:09
reuters,

Yes i think i will take this approach of buying only when its a good bargain. No point fighting if the owner is someone trying to push their unit to beat the previous high. If nothing comes along, I'll just wait till end 2012. Yes, I know the only negative is that I may buy the same area at a higher price in 2012. But thats why I wish to know the odds of that happening.

devilplate
30-11-10, 23:16
reuters,

Yes i think i will take this approach of buying only when its a good bargain. No point fighting if the owner is someone trying to push their unit to beat the previous high. If nothing comes along, I'll just wait till end 2012. Yes, I know the only negative is that I may buy the same area at a higher price in 2012. But thats why I wish to know the odds of that happening.

50% u can get it right....either big or small:D

penguin
30-11-10, 23:17
devilplate,

yeah, i may consider a hdb near TNS if prices are even higher than now, in 2012. actually, not that i can't get anything reasonable now after selling my place. If I buy back my same area, I probably could. It's just the katong/east coast area pptys are pushing for new highs.

Laguna
01-12-10, 08:00
The Sea View is on the fringe so I guess you have to check with the school about that.


Only two blocks in The Seaview are within 1km to TNS

Laguna
01-12-10, 08:08
To the majority, buying a house is one of the biggest investment decisions (sometime could be the most major one) to be made in life.

If u buy a house and see its price heading south, u will feel very very lousy to stay there.

I have a friend, sold his private landed property in D16 and migrated overseas in 2003. He returned to Sg in 2010 for good. The proceeds from the sale of landed property can now buy a HUDC in Tampines with some balance.

I went to Aalto yesterday, and was told that the developer has lowered the price, and those bot during launch are underwater. For Seafront@Meyer, are also not making much money as well.

As such, I always told frns that
what to buy is knowledge
and when to sell/buy is the wisdom.

DC33_2008
01-12-10, 08:10
You may also want to check with TN parents who have primary 1 kids in the next 2 years on the situation since you are a PV.
reuters,

Yes i think i will take this approach of buying only when its a good bargain. No point fighting if the owner is someone trying to push their unit to beat the previous high. If nothing comes along, I'll just wait till end 2012. Yes, I know the only negative is that I may buy the same area at a higher price in 2012. But thats why I wish to know the odds of that happening.

Emma
01-12-10, 08:24
To the majority, buying a house is one of the biggest investment decisions (sometime could be the most major one) to be made in life.

If u buy a house and see its price heading south, u will feel very very lousy to stay there.

I have a friend, sold his private landed property in D16 and migrated overseas in 2003. He returned to Sg in 2010 for good. The proceeds from the sale of landed property can now buy a HUDC in Tampines with some balance.

I went to Aalto yesterday, and was told that the developer has lowered the price, and those bot during launch are underwater. For Seafront@Meyer, are also not making much money as well.

As such, I always told frns that
what to buy is knowledge
and when to sell/buy is the wisdom.

Hi Laguna
which agency is the developer sales team? Are most of the ads we see on aalto online selling direct from developer or resale from owner?

Emma
01-12-10, 08:31
Oh Im referring to resale units by the way.

Emma,

May I get your view why you think prices will be maintained for some time, before rising again next cycle (when? how soon?) You feel the potential govt curbs are not going to affect the market; massive supply of units going to TOP in 2012-2014 has enough demand to take them up, and when interest rates start rising? Very much appreciated! :)

I don't think i have enough expertise to go into such technicalities. my amateurish opinion is : like i said i think the market is comprising of mostly genuine buyers and sellers now and with this dynamic, the market tends to weed out speculators and thus also any unsustainable price rises riding on just market momentum.

DC33_2008
01-12-10, 08:35
What was the launched price for Aalto?
Hi Laguna
which agency is the developer sales team? Are most of the ads we see on aalto online selling direct from developer or resale from owner?

Laguna
01-12-10, 10:45
What was the launched price for Aalto?

Aalto : current marketing agent is Hutton
if I remembered correctly, the prices ranged from $2500 to 3000
The penthouse was sold to the Quek family at $3000

My neighbour told me that when silversea was just launched, she was eyeing at an unit for $1700, but finally she paid for $1400 at late last year

devilplate
01-12-10, 11:40
Aalto : current marketing agent is Hutton
if I remembered correctly, the prices ranged from $2500 to 3000
The penthouse was sold to the Quek family at $3000

My neighbour told me that when silversea was just launched, she was eyeing at an unit for $1700, but finally she paid for $1400 at late last year

u mean silversea drop their pricing?

eng81157
01-12-10, 12:42
u mean silversea drop their pricing?

FEO drop price?? No way, the day they do that will be when Jesus returns.

probable constituting factors for the price differences - different stack/lower level/poorer view/non-sea facing, etc

kingkong1984
01-12-10, 12:48
Someone call me? If that happens, amend to that.

DC33_2008
01-12-10, 14:25
Drop so much:scared-4:
Aalto : current marketing agent is Hutton
if I remembered correctly, the prices ranged from $2500 to 3000
The penthouse was sold to the Quek family at $3000

My neighbour told me that when silversea was just launched, she was eyeing at an unit for $1700, but finally she paid for $1400 at late last year