Need advice - Sell D12 and D15?

[solarius]

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing all the tips and tricks in the forum, I really appreciate it. Do advise me in the following scenario.

I purchased a D12 condo 2 years as it is close to my parent's place and the price has since appreciated by about 150K. It is currently tenanted out at 4.5%, pretty spacious 3+1 and at quite a reasonable psf at the moment, ~750.

I purchased another condo in D15 about 6 months ago, a smaller 2+1 bedder for investment purposes before the cooldown measures. It's near to good schools that I want my kid to get into in a couple of years time.

I am pretty worried about the current situation and cool down measures.I have holding power. Should I sell now? Or hold on to them?

Thank you people!

[devilplate]

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing all the tips and tricks in the forum, I really appreciate it. Do advise me in the following scenario.

I purchased a D12 condo 2 years as it is close to my parent's place and the price has since appreciated by about 150K. It is currently tenanted out at 4.5%, pretty spacious 3+1 and at quite a reasonable psf at the moment, ~750.

I purchased another condo in D15 about 6 months ago, a smaller 2+1 bedder for investment purposes before the cooldown measures. It's near to good schools that I want my kid to get into in a couple of years time.

I am pretty worried about the current situation and cool down measures.I have holding power. Should I sell now? Or hold on to them?

Thank you people!

can u even breakeven if u sell ur ppty in D15?? if not, u only hf the choice of selling the one at D12.....sorry to say....u bot 2yrs back but the profit not tat great....probably bot b4 the big plunge?

ur rental yield 4.5% is based on current or ur original purchase price?

[solarius]

Can breakeven and make a bit, around 20K...

4.5% is based on original purchase price

[devilplate]

Can breakeven and make a bit, around 20K...

4.5% is based on original purchase price

mabe can hold a while longer since u got holding power:2cents:

[kingkong1984]

so simple

for investment.. can sell anytime when price is right.

kids and school don't always go as planned. Heck care. Hire a chauffer if necessary.

If you have no appetite for risks.. then you should sell. Always remember, property always go up in the long run. Must hold 5 or 10 years. 3% to 5% increase per year is expected.

[rattydrama]

Sell and buy back FH mm for investment in D1?

[Wild Falcon]

If your D15 is because its with xx km of xx school - then you cannot sell right? If you sell, then your child will not be able to get into xx school. Nowadays this forum is becoming like kiasuparents.com. So theoretically, you can only sell your D12 property. D12 used to have a lot of hype as it is near D11 but somehow the hype has died down somewhat. Maybe because it is not exactly near MRT or amenities? In any case, your D12 makes much more than your D15. A lot of bros here are holding on to multiple properties - so it really depends on your views on the market. I recently sold one in D15 (buyer exercised option today!) - mainly because I doubt there is any more upside (but my PERSONAL view) in this district and risk/reward dynamics is no longer attractive.

[peterng8]

Can breakeven and make a bit, around 20K...

4.5% is based on original purchase price

price is high now and u bought high at that time ,umm, are u going to buy another one? if not, a good time to sell if u want to...

[Wild Falcon]

Sometimes it's really hard to tell where the market is heading. I recall at the beginning of 2009, a lot of people sold their mass market condos out of "fear". There is this other forum called "skyscraper city" where lots of "experts" came out to say "I've sold my mass market because it is going to crash! Get out of mass market now!" Guess what happens? That was the WORST TIME to sell. They sold at the trough just b4 the infection point - self-professed experts can be wrong. In short, one has to use own judgement about risks/rewards and different people have different risk appetities. Frankly, I would prefer D14 (quite undervalued) to D12.


price is high now and u bought high at that time ,umm, are u going to buy another one? if not, a good time to sell if u want to...

[Laguna]

Sometimes it's really hard to tell where the market is heading. I recall at the beginning of 2009, a lot of people sold their mass market condos out of "fear". There is this other forum called "skyscraper city" where lots of "experts" came out to say "I've sold my mass market because it is going to crash! Get out of mass market now!" Guess what happens? That was the WORST TIME to sell. They sold at the trough just b4 the infection point - self-professed experts can be wrong. In short, one has to use own judgement about risks/rewards and different people have different risk appetities. Frankly, I would prefer D14 (quite undervalued) to D12.


What is your view now ?
buy? sell? hold?

[rattydrama]

Mass market condo price went up fundamentally as there is not enough HDB flats and people have to go for re-sale flat and some to mass condo.

There will be more flats / apartment in the next few years, it is difficult to earn $ by flipping the property going forward. If you buy now must be prepared to hold on longer and should come with rental opportunity after TOP.

Buyer could be spolit of choice and take a longer time to committ a purchase soon. Maybe we will be going through a period of pre-long low transaction volumn with buyer/seller not willing to meet the price.

How long developer can hold on to their unsold units or come out with carrot to lure buyer? Good strategy to watch the market with twisted eyes, wait and pick up good deals ......imho

built built built.....en-bloc en-bloc en-bloc..... not every day is a sunshine day for developer.....



Sometimes it's really hard to tell where the market is heading. I recall at the beginning of 2009, a lot of people sold their mass market condos out of "fear". There is this other forum called "skyscraper city" where lots of "experts" came out to say "I've sold my mass market because it is going to crash! Get out of mass market now!" Guess what happens? That was the WORST TIME to sell. They sold at the trough just b4 the infection point - self-professed experts can be wrong. In short, one has to use own judgement about risks/rewards and different people have different risk appetities. Frankly, I would prefer D14 (quite undervalued) to D12.

[taggy]

Mass market condo price went up fundamentally as there is not enough HDB flats and people have to go for re-sale flat and some to mass condo.

There will be more flats / apartment in the next few years, it is difficult to earn $ by flipping the property going forward. If you buy now must be prepared to hold on longer and should come with rental opportunity after TOP.

Buyer could be spolit of choice and take a longer time to committ a purchase soon. Maybe we will be going through a period of pre-long low transaction volumn with buyer/seller not willing to meet the price.

How long developer can hold on to their unsold units or come out with carrot to lure buyer? Good strategy to watch the market with twisted eyes, wait and pick up good deals ......imho

built built built.....en-bloc en-bloc en-bloc..... not every day is a sunshine day for developer.....

if so, then sell every prop excluding home, then wait to buy back ?

[rattydrama]

if u have good rental yield why sell all? You may never get back the same good location. also depend on when you buy it.. replacemnt cost is around 10%.

if want to gamble dont gamble all lah, leave some for opportunity. slow and steady.

[Wild Falcon]

I have one primary residence, 2 investment properties. I've sold one that I think has the least upside in D15. This is just PERSONAL OPINION. I comfort myself by rationalising I'm definitely not selling at the bottom of the market - it's either close to the peak OR mid cycle. It's really difficult to tell the direction today. Many units are going to TOP and our government has tightened immigration - so rental might weaken. I am not interested in buying now, esp new launches - I just think the risk/return profile is not worth the trouble. But obviously I could be wrong and prices may cheong some more. But one distinct trend is that the CCR projects that are selling VERY WELL (e.g. Robinson) are the MM small units - which does not bode well - buyers are entry level and such shoebox "luxury" units will appear "deficient" when TOP.

BTW, I dunno if it's just me but I notice a downtrend this month - across all segments? I've gone to streetsine and randomly selected some high-profile projects with many transactions e.g. One Amber, The Sail etc, and prices seem to be trending downwards? Haha. Maybe I'm trying to comfort myself.


What is your view now ?
buy? sell? hold?

[Wild Falcon]

Oops. Looks like not all projects reflect downward price trends. Still got some healthy increases like Botannia, Hillview Heights, The Centris, Park Infinia etc. (random selection across some districts).

[teddybear]

Hillview Heights, Hillview Green, Springdale, Hume Park I, SouthHaven II all down? Mostly OCR coming down? :confused:


Oops. Looks like not all projects reflect downward price trends. Still got some healthy increases like Botannia, Hillview Heights, The Centris, Park Infinia etc. (random selection across some districts).

[proud owner]

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing all the tips and tricks in the forum, I really appreciate it. Do advise me in the following scenario.

I purchased a D12 condo 2 years as it is close to my parent's place and the price has since appreciated by about 150K. It is currently tenanted out at 4.5%, pretty spacious 3+1 and at quite a reasonable psf at the moment, ~750.

I purchased another condo in D15 about 6 months ago, a smaller 2+1 bedder for investment purposes before the cooldown measures. It's near to good schools that I want my kid to get into in a couple of years time.

I am pretty worried about the current situation and cool down measures.I have holding power. Should I sell now? Or hold on to them?

Thank you people!


DO u like that unit in D15?

if u do, then dont sell ..
if u really think mkt will crash ..then sell
if you think maybe will come off .. hold
if you not sure .. sell ..better than worry every night

if you not sure but got holding power .. then hold

[solarius]

Good points raised by all, thanks folks!

Guess I should cash out D12 to lock in the profit, as it is at a high for that property. I will miss the wider space, amenities and central location, but that can't be help. It's an investment decision.

Is D15 at an all time high now? Is there still potential upside in the near future? Considering Katong Mall revamp and the announcement of ERL?

If there's no potential upside, it might even be riskier to hold on to the D15 property...

Decisions.....

[proud owner]

Good points raised by all, thanks folks!

Guess I should cash out D12 to lock in the profit, as it is at a high for that property. I will miss the wider space, amenities and central location, but that can't be help. It's an investment decision.

Is D15 at an all time high now? Is there still potential upside in the near future? Considering Katong Mall revamp and the announcement of ERL?

If there's no potential upside, it might even be riskier to hold on to the D15 property...

Decisions.....

do u likeD12 that unit ?

space is getting more and more expensive
i feel its a waste to sell .. cos in future when u want bigger unit .. you will have to pay even more

[solarius]

Yup the unit is not too bad... and cheaply priced even after the appreciation.. It's FH and hovers around 700psf.. It's near to Boon Keng MRT where the DBSS itself is priced around 700K :scared-5:

[kingkong1984]

Yup the unit is not too bad... and cheaply priced even after the appreciation.. It's FH and hovers around 700psf.. It's near to Boon Keng MRT where the DBSS itself is priced around 700K :scared-5:
I see undervalue now, sell and buy mm's

[Geylang OKT]

Beacon Heights? :)

[solarius]

Pretty close to that, it's on St Michael's.. wonder if the enhancements to this estate will bring about better value/valuation.. Near SA too, pretty decent school?

[devilplate]

Beacon Heights? :)

wah beacon hts only worth 700psf?:p

[devilplate]

Pretty close to that, it's on St Michael's.. wonder if the enhancements to this estate will bring about better value/valuation.. Near SA too, pretty decent school?

the elysia?;) i spotted tat 03-01 last yr...650psf seems a bargain now:ashamed1:

[KC76]

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing all the tips and tricks in the forum, I really appreciate it. Do advise me in the following scenario.

I purchased a D12 condo 2 years as it is close to my parent's place and the price has since appreciated by about 150K. It is currently tenanted out at 4.5%, pretty spacious 3+1 and at quite a reasonable psf at the moment, ~750.

I purchased another condo in D15 about 6 months ago, a smaller 2+1 bedder for investment purposes before the cooldown measures. It's near to good schools that I want my kid to get into in a couple of years time.

I am pretty worried about the current situation and cool down measures.I have holding power. Should I sell now? Or hold on to them?

Thank you people!

Interesting. I have a question and hope you dun mind me posting here. St Michael condo at 750psf vs CCK condo at 750psf. One nearer to central and the other damn far away. Why then are the prices so similar?

Why would one buy a CCK condo if he can get a St Michael one? Can anyone enlighten me?

[devilplate]

Interesting. I have a question and hope you dun mind me posting here. St Michael condo at 750psf vs CCK condo at 750psf. One nearer to central and the other damn far away. Why then are the prices so similar?

Why would one buy a CCK condo if he can get a St Michael one? Can anyone enlighten me?

its about the feel....u recce tat area oredi? deep inside, no amenities and facing expressway for some projects.

not a fair comparison...u mean Mi casa at 750psf? brandnew and under construction....u shd compare it with Beacon heights which is trading at 900psf(ppl r asking around 1k-1.1kpsf for subsale standard units whereas u can still get 750psf from subsale Mi Casa)

[kingkong1984]

Interesting. I have a question and hope you dun mind me posting here. St Michael condo at 750psf vs CCK condo at 750psf. One nearer to central and the other damn far away. Why then are the prices so similar?

Why would one buy a CCK condo if he can get a St Michael one? Can anyone enlighten me?

Very noisy there leh... middle of Singapore and near to inter junction!!!! not near to schools. This is city but drawing the wrong HDB crowd. That is HDB heartland drawing the right HDB crowd.

The price speaks for itself. CCK ulu pricing.. wait till u check out woodlands new launches.. But they can build more MM's there.

Must compare new with new and old with old.

FH versus FH and LH versus LH. FH usually are cheaper than LH if it is very run down and well located.

So good why sell so low? Right? Ask the owners who sold low and not the buyers who bought low. Owner's cannot wait to get out.... haha

[KC76]

its about the feel....u recce tat area oredi? deep inside, no amenities and facing expressway for some projects.

not a fair comparison...u mean Mi casa at 750psf? brandnew and under construction....u shd compare it with Beacon heights which is trading at 900psf(ppl r asking around 1k-1.1kpsf for subsale standard units whereas u can still get 750psf from subsale Mi Casa)

Yes, I ever been to that area. Doesnt look ideal for family living and quite similar to the moonstone district. If only MND rejuvenate that area, the psf for properties there would have been much higher. Same case for geylang. If somehow, the red light district is moved to suburban areas, the prices there will flourish. Still, with a difference of merely 100+psf, Mi Casa seems overpriced.

A fairer comparison would perhaps be Beacon Heights vs Kovan Residences? Both 900psf+ and one 999 yrs lease and one 99 yrs lease. Beacon Heights lose out on its surrounding only in my opinion. Other than that, its longer lease and exclusivity and distance from central should beat KR.

Tio bo?

[devilplate]

Yes, I ever been to that area. Doesnt look ideal for family living and quite similar to the moonstone district. If only MND rejuvenate that area, the psf for properties there would have been much higher. Same case for geylang. If somehow, the red light district is moved to suburban areas, the prices there will flourish. Still, with a difference of merely 100+psf, Mi Casa seems overpriced.

A fairer comparison would perhaps be Beacon Heights vs Kovan Residences? Both 900psf+ and one 999 yrs lease and one 99 yrs lease. Beacon Heights lose out on its surrounding only in my opinion. Other than that, its longer lease and exclusivity and distance from central should bear KR.

Tio bo?

beacon heights area better for own stay with cars as its tough to rent out at gd rates....not near MRT, no amenities ....goto walk a gd distance to the main road to get a cab too...its convenience vs inconvenience

those tink tat geylang will shift out one day....nid hell lots of patience and chanting....many geylang apts goto rent out to students and workers.....vy cham one

[kingkong1984]

Yes, I ever been to that area. Doesnt look ideal for family living and quite similar to the moonstone district. If only MND rejuvenate that area, the psf for properties there would have been much higher. Same case for geylang. If somehow, the red light district is moved to suburban areas, the prices there will flourish. Still, with a difference of merely 100+psf, Mi Casa seems overpriced.

A fairer comparison would perhaps be Beacon Heights vs Kovan Residences? Both 900psf+ and one 999 yrs lease and one 99 yrs lease. Beacon Heights lose out on its surrounding only in my opinion. Other than that, its longer lease and exclusivity and distance from central should bear KR.

Tio bo?

Pricing relative lah.. buy what you like. Each District has each District's pricing. You cannnot have the best of everything. News reported new EC's $900-$1000 psf.. That is overpriced to me. You want to know what is the right price in D23, watch out for the new land prices being done there plus developer's launch price. D23 is really more exciting than this area.

[KC76]

beacon heights area better for own stay with cars as its tough to rent out at gd rates....not near MRT, no amenities ....goto walk a gd distance to the main road to get a cab too...its convenience vs inconvenience


haha, yes yes. I am trying to look for a good condo to invest in and doing my research now. That explains my asking of so many questions. Pardon me.

But still, I feel that a better time to buy would be next year or 2012.:rolleyes:

[devilplate]

haha, yes yes. I am trying to look for a good condo to invest in and doing my research now. That explains my asking of so many questions. Pardon me.

But still, I feel that a better time to buy would be next year or 2012.:rolleyes:

no worries....all the best yay:D

[rattydrama]

Pricing relative lah.. buy what you like. Each District has each District's pricing. You cannnot have the best of everything. News reported new EC's $900-$1000 psf.. That is overpriced to me. You want to know what is the right price in D23, watch out for the new land prices being done there plus developer's launch price. D23 is really more exciting than this area.

D23 Because of Far East?? I received sms for high tea concept presentation for their soho project this weekend @ Bt Panjang Plaza...

seems that far east now looking at North (woodlands) and North West areas now? devil comments?

[kingkong1984]

haha, yes yes. I am trying to look for a good condo to invest in and doing my research now. That explains my asking of so many questions. Pardon me.

But still, I feel that a better time to buy would be next year or 2012.:rolleyes:

try D1 D2's mm's, better for investment

[KC76]

Pricing relative lah.. buy what you like. Each District has each District's pricing. You cannnot have the best of everything. News reported new EC's $900-$1000 psf.. That is overpriced to me. You want to know what is the right price in D23, watch out for the new land prices being done there plus developer's launch price. D23 is really more exciting than this area.

Hmm D23. Lakeside, Bt Batok, CCK area? EC at 900 psf? Where?

[devilplate]

landed price had shoot up alot alot....meaning FH land gona cost a bomb for developer to enbloc? this statement true anot? hehe

[rattydrama]

landed price had shoot up alot alot....meaning FH land gona cost a bomb for developer to enbloc? this statement true anot? hehe

developer may be in trouble? haha... how to sell at such high psf after enbloc? who will buy?? next 2 years will be interesting to watch....less buyers and less sellers scenerio maybe ...

[devilplate]

D23 Because of Far East?? I received sms for high tea concept presentation for their soho project this weekend @ Bt Panjang Plaza...

seems that far east now looking at North (woodlands) and North West areas now? devil comments?

FEO brought up the prices single handedly in Northeast which is greenwich :D

u mean D23 Tennary? indicative prices for 1bedder ard 11xxpsf....if u were to ask me....its MUCH CHEAPER den greenwich....haha....got Mall+MRT whereas GW only got Mall

11xxpsf for 1bedder seems reasonable pricing for suburban areas...see scala, LF etc:D

i suspect FEO will release low flrs at 11xxpsf...later on can expect prices to hit 14xxpsf for high flrs:D

[rattydrama]

try D1 D2's mm's, better for investment which r the projects care to share?

[devilplate]

Hmm D23. Lakeside, Bt Batok, CCK area? EC at 900 psf? Where?

EC at 1kpsf only possible in Bishan for now:D

if CCK, punggol EC hit 1kpsf....i SELL ALL OCR!:scared-3: :D

[rattydrama]

FEO brought up the prices single handedly in Northeast which is greenwich :D

u mean D23 Tennary? indicative prices for 1bedder ard 11xxpsf....if u were to ask me....its MUCH CHEAPER den greenwich....haha....got Mall+MRT whereas GW only got Mall

11xxpsf for 1bedder seems reasonable pricing for suburban areas...see scala, LF etc:D

Micasa - FEO
Woodlands New Plot (near American school) - FEO
Greenwich - FEO
Tennary - FEO.

Where else?

scale - central
LF - buy on dream/hope
Tennary - I am not sure maybe 2 MRTs and amenities? u going? wats the size for 1 bedder?

[kingkong1984]

Hmm D23. Lakeside, Bt Batok, CCK area? EC at 900 psf? Where?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?p=122435#post122435

You check out new EC pricing at the Prive... you will accept and embrace the new pricing for all condos. The news is outdated 4 days ago. Oversubscribed already..

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC101204-0000216/Property-is-hot-as-Prive-launch-shows

SINGAPORE - The latest executive condominium (EC) project in Singapore - and the first in Punggol - saw crowds of potential home buyers on the first day of its launch (picture).

As at 8.30pm on Friday, more than 260 applications were received.

Market watchers predict that demand for the property will be strong, continuing the renewed interest in this type of home - a hybrid of private and public housing - since it made its comeback in October after a five-year hiatus.

Located along Punggol Field and near the MRT station, Prive is priced at $660 to $690 per sq ft. Developed jointly by NTUC Choice Homes and CEL Development, the project offers 680 units of two to four-bedrooms.

SLP International executive director (research and consultancy) Nicholas Mak said the EC was a more affordable choice for those who wanted condo facilities but not the price tag.

"Other mass market condominiums, if they are, say, located in the same proximity to Punggol MRT Station, could be priced between $800 to $900 per sq ft. So the present price of this EC seems quite attractive, especially for first-time home buyers who could enjoy the $30,000 housing grant as well." he said.

ECs are available to households earning between $8,000 and $10,000 monthly. Two ECs were launched in October: Esparina Residences in Buangkok had 425 of its 573 units snapped up within the month; for The Canopy in Yishun, it was 104 of 406 units.

On Friday, the Housing and Development Board awarded the tender for another EC, at Segar Road in Bukit Panjang, to Grand Isle Holdings for about $182 million. The estimated 570-unit development is to be completed within 48 months.

Prive was the first EC to offer a Deferred Payment Scheme: Buyers pay upfront a 5-per-cent booking fee and 15 per cent of the purchase price, with the remaining payments deferred to 2014, when the project gets its Temporary Occupation Permit.

Potential buyers whom MediaCorp spoke to said affordability and promixity to the MRT station made Prive a strong choice.

One buyer said: "With all the proper facilities at a competitive price as compared to private property, we decided to try."

sorry, ratty.. not going to prescibe which ones. You have to explore on your own. :) ;)

[rattydrama]

sorry, ratty.. not going to prescibe which ones. You have to explore on your own. :) ;)

:p :p :p PM me can lah.:p :p :p really have no clue.

[kingkong1984]

haha, yes yes. I am trying to look for a good condo to invest in and doing my research now. That explains my asking of so many questions. Pardon me.

But still, I feel that a better time to buy would be next year or 2012.:rolleyes:

Can you research this?

556 Yishun Avenue 6 #12-15
99 Yrs From 12/09/2000
$652
1270
$828k
19 Nov 10

[kingkong1984]

And this?

ESPARINA RESIDENCES COMPASSVALE BOWExecutive Condominium1929,0001,163Strata799Nov-10

ESPARINA RESIDENCESBuangkok Drive/Compassvale BowFCL Compassvale Pte. Ltd.Exec CondoOCR573573425148573425761 (http://forums.condosingapore.com/submitPriceDetails.do?hdl_no=C0675) 503 811

Highest at 811 psf (underconstruction)... 8 years later... 1811??

[proper-t]

Why not sell both and buy a landed that is close to a good school? You can still send your kids to the school of yr choice and enjoy the capital appreciation

Benefits:

1. Pool of landed homes is very limited and new supply of landed ppties is minimal (most are cluster and 99yrs).
2. No maintenance fees to pay
3. Annual value is usually lower = lower ppty tax

Cons:
1. Rents tend to be lower
2. If major repairs have to be done (e.g. leaking roof), cost can be quite high.

[solarius]

thought of landed as well but my missus is not keen and prefers condo.. Are there any good landed near good schools? most that i know are not located at awesome places..

[peterng8]

Yup the unit is not too bad... and cheaply priced even after the appreciation.. It's FH and hovers around 700psf.. It's near to Boon Keng MRT where the DBSS itself is priced around 700K :scared-5:

Hi, Pls PM me the location if possible,near to MRT how near. 8 min walk or 3 min walk? As I am interested to explore this District...thanks.

[ocoloco79]

so simple

for investment.. can sell anytime when price is right.

kids and school don't always go as planned. Heck care. Hire a chauffer if necessary.

If you have no appetite for risks.. then you should sell. Always remember, property always go up in the long run. Must hold 5 or 10 years. 3% to 5% increase per year is expected.

But I cannot imagine 5, 10 or 20 years later a standard size (not MM) LH/FH condo eg in ulu ulu areas like woodlands / CCK/ punggol area not near MRT can appreciate to as high as 1k psf :beats-me-man:

[sh]

But I cannot imagine 5, 10 or 20 years later a standard size (not MM) LH/FH condo eg in ulu ulu areas like woodlands / CCK/ punggol area not near MRT can appreciate to as high as 1k psf :beats-me-man:

In 20 years time, everything will be over 1k psf. Inflation!!!!:)

[ocoloco79]

In 20 years time, everything will be over 1k psf. Inflation!!!!:)

Do u think it is possible for pty to crash to the time like 2005 or 2009 whereby everywhere is less than 700psf? I mean the ulu areas. If this is possible, then maybe difficult to see prices increase to 1k psf for ulu areas liao in 20 yrs?:beats-me-man:

[devilplate]

Do u think it is possible for pty to crash to the time like 2005 or 2009 whereby everywhere is less than 700psf? I mean the ulu areas. If this is possible, then maybe difficult to see prices increase to 1k psf for ulu areas liao in 20 yrs?:beats-me-man:

mabe u can quote some projects which u deem ulu?

now punggol consider ulu to u?

[ocoloco79]

mabe u can quote some projects which u deem ulu?

now punggol consider ulu to u?

far from town and mrt? eg Woodlands, seletar, hougang, sengkang, punggol, pasir ris, boon lay, cck?? They are still considered ulu compared to ang mo kio, bishan, east area like D14, D15?

[devilplate]

far from town and mrt? eg Woodlands, seletar, hougang, sengkang, punggol, pasir ris, boon lay, cck?? They are still considered ulu compared to ang mo kio, bishan, east area like D14, D15?

that punggol plot with integrated mall possibly hit 1kpsf+ next yr

greenwich oredi hit 14xxpsf...hehe....i begin to accept the fact oredi:D

[ocoloco79]

that punggol plot with integrated mall possibly hit 1kpsf+ next yr

near mall then not considered ulu lah.. those far from mrt, malls one how can appreciate to 1k psf even in future? Just find it hard to believe...

[kingkong1984]

No point talking about this, just a matter of time. Need proof? Go find jurong new flats pricing, 10 yr, 20 yr, 30 yr ago... Inflation alone will do it, man made amenities will accerlerate it.

[peterng8]

No point talking about this, just a matter of time. Need proof? Go find jurong new flats pricing, 10 yr, 20 yr, 30 yr ago... Inflation alone will do it, man made amenities will accerlerate it.

that is rite, as singapore progresses economically, price will go up trend with hiccup or dip along the way.

and I think ulu does not really applies to singapore as the country is small as compared to big country where ulu really means out of place when connection to big city is concerned, u may need to take land transport and than air transport to reach the big city, this sort of area is considered ulu and low priced.

Thinking about it, Maybe that is why those FT (from other sizeable countries) and most singpaorean who are well travelled now think there is value buying SUburb CONDO THAT IS NEAR MRT or within a few min walk to MRT.:2cents:and pushing the price up along the way...another factor, COE is going up too..

[rattydrama]

peter, well said.

[sh]

Do u think it is possible for pty to crash to the time like 2005 or 2009 whereby everywhere is less than 700psf? I mean the ulu areas. If this is possible, then maybe difficult to see prices increase to 1k psf for ulu areas liao in 20 yrs?:beats-me-man:

Just look at the number of time property prices has multiplied over that last 20 yrs.
If the time frame is shorter, one may be caught in a property cycle, I can’t say for certain that the prices will be higher. But over 20 yrs, we are probably talking about 3 to 4 cycles. If history is anything to go by, property prices are always higher peak to peak.
Looking at it from another angle, let’s assume a very modest average inflation rate of 4% per annum. 4% compounded over 20 years is more than 2 times the original amount. Assuming the cheapest per sq ft price of $500 in the most ulu part of Singapore, in 20 years time the price would be $1100 in 20 years time…:)

[land118]

Just look at the number of time property prices has multiplied over that last 20 yrs.
If the time frame is shorter, one may be caught in a property cycle, I can’t say for certain that the prices will be higher. But over 20 yrs, we are probably talking about 3 to 4 cycles. If history is anything to go by, property prices are always higher peak to peak.
Looking at it from another angle, let’s assume a very modest average inflation rate of 4% per annum. 4% compounded over 20 years is more than 2 times the original amount. Assuming the cheapest per sq ft price of $500 in the most ulu part of Singapore, in 20 years time the price would be $1100 in 20 years time…:)

...gd pt..

[pmet]

Do u think it is possible for pty to crash to the time like 2005 or 2009 whereby everywhere is less than 700psf? I mean the ulu areas. If this is possible, then maybe difficult to see prices increase to 1k psf for ulu areas liao in 20 yrs?:beats-me-man:

One cannot discount the possibility of a recession or crisis (like sars) happening in 10-20yrs time. In fact, if you study the current trend, the next recession should be coming in 5yrs time. IMO, it's definitely possible for properties in OCR dropping to <700psf, even after factoring in inflation.

[ocoloco79]

One cannot discount the possibility of a recession or crisis (like sars) happening in 10-20yrs time. In fact, if you study the current trend, the next recession should be coming in 5yrs time. IMO, it's definitely possible for properties in OCR dropping to <700psf, even after factoring in inflation.

yup.. thats what i mean, so we cannot say for sure property rises in LR.. In case things like SARS happened again and wat if we can never wait for the economy to recover? Looking at how ppl are buying makes me scared.. Assuming tat Mr X bought a property in 1996 peak when he was 50 over years old, he may not live to see his property appreciate to double after factoring inflation wor...

[devilplate]

One cannot discount the possibility of a recession or crisis (like sars) happening in 10-20yrs time. In fact, if you study the current trend, the next recession should be coming in 5yrs time. IMO, it's definitely possible for properties in OCR dropping to <700psf, even after factoring in inflation.

u r quite actively posting earlier on when the EU debt crisis unveil....

now u r back again....welcome back:D

errr...if i am not wrong, u were saying next recession coming VERY SOON earlier on....but u r saying 5yrs time now....y a sudden change of stance?

[DC33_2008]

One do need to see to go up to double. Just 1.5 times is good enough. $ is getting smaller. What can one buy with $2 now compared to 20 years ago? Our parents could probably see their properties went up by multiple times.
yup.. thats what i mean, so we cannot say for sure property rises in LR.. In case things like SARS happened again and wat if we can never wait for the economy to recover? Looking at how ppl are buying makes me scared.. Assuming tat Mr X bought a property in 1996 peak when he was 50 over years old, he may not live to see his property appreciate to double after factoring inflation wor...

[solarius]

so are you saying for me to hold on to my property?

[DC33_2008]

Some are mid to long-term investors of multiple units.

[proper-t]

One cannot discount the possibility of a recession or crisis (like sars) happening in 10-20yrs time. In fact, if you study the current trend, the next recession should be coming in 5yrs time. IMO, it's definitely possible for properties in OCR dropping to <700psf, even after factoring in inflation.

If you study past property trends, you will note that the price index of each subsequent low point is always higher than the prior low point.

2Q09 > 1Q04 > 4Q98 > 4Q90 > 2Q86

Based on historical trends, even if a recession does hit, there is a very high likelihood that the dip will not be as low as the previous dip. In short, you will never be able to get the low point prices of yesteryears

OR to put it more bluntly, once you miss the boat, the next boat's ticket prices are definitely going to be higher.http://www.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-NW4LORIS.jpg

[land118]

...In short, you will never be able to get the low prices of yesteryears. nice chart, on a bullish note, unless there is a double dip.., we should be some way to go b4 reaching the next peak...unless major external financial shocks....

more investment $ coming this way soon......esp from China

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1098053/1/.html

S'pore overtakes Shanghai as top destination for property investment

[land118]

S'pore overtakes Shanghai as top destination for property investment

For Foreigners, many positive about investing in Singapore property:

1. SGD target to strengthen further against USD by end 2011, gradual appreciation

2. Chance of capital appreciation

3. Safe haven, no need to worry property will be nationalised by Singapore Government

4. Can send their children here to study and stay in property at the same time

5. If want to rent, also easy

6. If currently working here and have expat package, even better, invest, use Company's housing allowance to pay, end of contract, make some $ from this "housing allowance" and bring back home..., by that time...SGD convert to maybe USD even higher...gains in USD terms

seem like no brainer...sure win...from Foreigners perspectives...

[pmet]

If you study past property trends, you will note that the price index of each subsequent dip is always higher than the prior dip.

2Q09 > 1Q04 > 4Q98 > 4Q90 > 2Q86

Based on historical trends, even if a recession does hit, there is a very high likelihood that the dip will not be as low as the previous dip. In short, you will never be able to get the low prices of yesteryears. http://www.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-NW4LORIS.jpg

Yes, we can't expect prices to drop to previous bottoms, just as now we can't expect prices to stop at previous peaks. This is where inflation comes into the picture. However, how far are we away from 2009/2008? i.e. if prices do drop now, it will not be too far off from the previous bottom -- as inflation in two years isn't alot. If it's a 10yr cycle, then we will see a much higher bottom.

[pmet]

u r quite actively posting earlier on when the EU debt crisis unveil....

now u r back again....welcome back:D

errr...if i am not wrong, u were saying next recession coming VERY SOON earlier on....but u r saying 5yrs time now....y a sudden change of stance?

Thanks! I've been actively reading on this forum and waiting for the opportunity to swoop in.

My stance hasn't changed. I mentioned of a major correction in property prices (2011-2012) due to a pullback of funds and several other factors but that doesn't equate to a recession which is much more serious :scared-1:

However, I don't think prices would be much lower in the coming recession as inflation is being factored in.

[devilplate]

Thanks! I've been actively reading on this forum and waiting for the opportunity to swoop in.

My stance hasn't changed. I mentioned of a major correction in property prices (2011-2012) due to a pullback of funds and several other factors but that doesn't equate to a recession which is much more serious :scared-1:

However, I don't think prices would be much lower in the coming recession as inflation is being factored in.

based on historical chart...very seldom we got ppty price correction.....more like boom and doom

[pmet]

based on historical chart...very seldom we got ppty price correction.....more like boom and doom

It's the first time US and EU ever printed so much money <-- that's your answer :)

[Geylang OKT]

In other words, super huat huat until seow (or so until the next downturn in 5 yrs time) :D :D :D

[pmet]

In other words, super huat huat until seow (or so until the next downturn in 5 yrs time) :D :D :D
Correction in 2011-2012, not exactly huat all the way lah. Huat if you sell now and buy again in 2012, sell in 2014, buy in 2015. Huat x 2!

Then again... property is not as liquid as stocks :tsk-tsk:

[devilplate]

tok is cheap la...

just say huatttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt:D

[Geylang OKT]

Correction in 2011-2012, not exactly huat all the way lah. Huat if you sell now and buy again in 2012, sell in 2014, buy in 2015. Huat x 2!

Then again... property is not as liquid as stocks :tsk-tsk:

I was talking about stocks in the first place. Property is a one way down street from now till 2015 :D :D :D

[Geylang OKT]

Construction stocks will do very well going forward too, as there are many developments by the developers, and infrastucture promised by the govt to be built :D :D :D

[reuters]

Construction stocks will do very well going forward too, as there are many developments by the developers, and infrastucture promised by the govt to be built :D :D :D

I think Geylang OKT is right about this. If you see SG government's biggest project from 2010 to 2020, it seems to be all about the MRT. Don't think SG can afford to be happy with just 2 IRs for now. Surely they will move forward with more developments down south (both east and westwards).

[Komo]

Now should hold on to existing properties for more capital appreciation. Not sell.

[DC33_2008]

Depends on the location and type of properties. Most importantly is you. What kind of investors are you? Like to buy and keep and buy more for mid to long term (deep pocket investors and not so worry about the economy) or someone who likes to ride on the market to make $ by riding on the corrections to buy larger and better properties in better location.

[solarius]

I am a simple person.. Enjoy my job, take care of family. I bought the 2nd property as an investment before the cool down measures. The thing that worries me most is whether the cool down measures and the threats from Singapore government will stop the upward rise of property. I know the government prefers a slow, incremental slope, but what really matters is the public perception. So it's a question of whether to shoulder the risk of correction, or to sell now since there's a profit. (let the profit run or not?)

[DC33_2008]

If you look at the recent EC sales. The good ones will still be of high demand. The earlier ECs are only about $300-400psf and now is $600plus psf. Prices will move up with interim corrections over time. But the trend is always upward. It depends on your appetite. $100k profit may be enough for some may be viewed as too little for others. IMO, should keep for units at V good location especially if rental yield is above 4.5%.
I am a simple person.. Enjoy my job, take care of family. I bought the 2nd property as an investment before the cool down measures. The thing that worries me most is whether the cool down measures and the threats from Singapore government will stop the upward rise of property. I know the government prefers a slow, incremental slope, but what really matters is the public perception. So it's a question of whether to shoulder the risk of correction, or to sell now since there's a profit. (let the profit run or not?)

[solarius]

thanks for all your advice.. Will think long and hard..

[Wild Falcon]

Before you comment, you should go see the St Michael's area and the surroundings. Even Balestier nearer to town, many of the "condos" are rented to PRCs working as KTV hostesses and prostitutes. Just yesterday, there was news of this KTV hostess surviving the fall from the 12th storey Balestier condo. The condo unit is rented out to 7 PRC hostesses. I have visited some units in D12 - many of them are rented out to such undesirable crowd. This is the type of neighbours you will be getting - very complicated environment. CCK is more rustic, less concrete and more family oriented.


Interesting. I have a question and hope you dun mind me posting here. St Michael condo at 750psf vs CCK condo at 750psf. One nearer to central and the other damn far away. Why then are the prices so similar?

Why would one buy a CCK condo if he can get a St Michael one? Can anyone enlighten me?

[Geylang OKT]

Balestier is the next Geylang :D :D :D

[teddybear]

Your memory failed you or you weren't born then? You forgot Balestier was the old equivalent of "Geylang" before migration to current Geylang? :D


Balestier is the next Geylang :D :D :D

[devilplate]

Your memory failed you or you weren't born then? You forgot Balestier was the old equivalent of "Geylang" before migration to current Geylang? :D

err....tot balestier more for gangsters/ secret society last time?:beats-me-man:

[teddybear]

My knowledge is that HillView and Upper Bukit Timah area has the highest concentration of PRCs owning and living in the private properties there. I have heard too many stories about them (from their neighbours) - rowdy and make a lot of noise even past midnight, rude, inconsiderate, wash clothes and bath everyday in common toilet, their kids are bullies in the estate, etc.


Before you comment, you should go see the St Michael's area and the surroundings. Even Balestier nearer to town, many of the "condos" are rented to PRCs working as KTV hostesses and prostitutes. Just yesterday, there was news of this KTV hostess surviving the fall from the 12th storey Balestier condo. The condo unit is rented out to 7 PRC hostesses. I have visited some units in D12 - many of them are rented out to such undesirable crowd. This is the type of neighbours you will be getting - very complicated environment. CCK is more rustic, less concrete and more family oriented.

[teddybear]

Gangsters and secret societies do what business last time? - Gambling, KTVs, Vice, loan sharks, right? :cheers1:


err....tot balestier more for gangsters/ secret society last time?:beats-me-man:

[Geylang OKT]

Your memory failed you or you weren't born then? You forgot Balestier was the old equivalent of "Geylang" before migration to current Geylang? :D

How about Joo Chiat? :D :D :D

[teddybear]

Wah! That one to become next "Geylang"? :D
Nowsaday D14 & D16 more famous for Vice? :scared-3:


How about Joo Chiat? :D :D :D

[solarius]

Oh my place is near Boon Keng mrt, interesting mix of people, quite a few working in the city as there is a direct bus that brings them there in less than 20 mins.. And I actually like Balestier, a lot of good food and character.

[Wild Falcon]

Let's all talk objectively. PRC is not prevalent in Hillview - that you can be sure. It's too inconvenient for them :) They like convenient areas with easy accessibility to public transport. Upper Bukit Timah is one area that one cannot survive without a car. It's more known as koreatown with a sizeable korean population who prefer quieter areas. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreatown and http://www.soshiok.com/article/2179

The high-end PRCs - obviously in the high-end Orchard Road condos and Sentosa Cove. The lower end - in Geylang and surroundings - mainly city fringe due to convenience.

And let's talk objectively. This is a D12 thread - there's no need to attack other districts with comments with no basis - more like attacking an individual. Everywhere has PRCs - it's just which area has more than others. Every place has its essence - and the essence of Upper Bukit Timah is NOT PRC if you put on an objective hat.


My knowledge is that HillView and Upper Bukit Timah area has the highest concentration of PRCs owning and living in the private properties there. I have heard too many stories about them (from their neighbours) - rowdy and make a lot of noise even past midnight, rude, inconsiderate, wash clothes and bath everyday in common toilet, their kids are bullies in the estate, etc.

[teddybear]

I am talking objectively from experience relayed to me by my friends and colleagues. They all regretted buying condo units in HillView and Upper Bukit Timah areas. They bought that areas in first place because they are very cheap at one time (something like $500 psf for FH private condo unit!). However, same mentality prevails for mid-end PRCs. These group of PRCs like to buy cheap condos (and whatever that is cheap) regardless of location. HillView and Upper Bukit Timah areas are 1 main area the flock to, since it is also near NUS, and Science Park areas where many of these mid-end PRC workers work. Many of these also bought cars because they were also cheap at that time.

No, PRCs very difficult to find in CCR private properties except the really rich ones, but the mid-end PRCs are everywhere in OCR private condos (especially HillView and West Coast areas). These mid-end PRCs and their kids have very bad manners and behave quite badly and really can take advantage of everything like bathing and washing clothes in condos' common toilets (obviously not all of them are like that but quite many of them are like that).

Those in Upper Bukit Timah are the mid-end Koreans, and obviously there are more of these than the high-end Koreans (just like there are so many many more mid-end PRCs vs high-end PRCs). You know where the high-end Koreans mostly living? Give you a tip: Somewhere in CCR. This is for you to go find out if you want them as tenants!


Let's all talk objectively. PRC is not prevalent in Hillview - that you can be sure. It's too inconvenient for them :) They like convenient areas with easy accessibility to public transport. Upper Bukit Timah is one area that one cannot survive without a car. It's more known as koreatown with a sizeable korean population who prefer quieter areas. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreatown and http://www.soshiok.com/article/2179

The high-end PRCs - obviously in the high-end Orchard Road condos and Sentosa Cove. The lower end - in Geylang and surroundings - mainly city fringe due to convenience.

And let's talk objectively. This is a D12 thread - there's no need to attack other districts with comments with no basis - more like attacking an individual. Everywhere has PRCs - it's just which area has more than others. Every place has its essence - and the essence of Upper Bukit Timah is NOT PRC if you put on an objective hat.


My knowledge is that HillView and Upper Bukit Timah area has the highest concentration of PRCs owning and living in the private properties there. I have heard too many stories about them (from their neighbours) - rowdy and make a lot of noise even past midnight, rude, inconsiderate, wash clothes and bath everyday in common toilet, their kids are bullies in the estate, etc.

[kingkong1984]

No need to teach them here, let them learn the hard way. MRT has transform this area, slowly but surely. Not the same anymore. It will be hotter.

[Rysk]

Balestier is the next Geylang :D :D :D

How can it be? I tot Balestier then Boon Keng then Geylang??

[Wild Falcon]

teddybear and amk, enough of your trumpeting your high class lifestyle amongst high-class people. i don't see how anyone buying Hillview at $400+psf in 2007 regretting, simply becos in a span of a 2 years, it's now >$800psf. Clearly, it is a good investment, by any definition. Not many places double within 2.5 years,

As to how much you despise "middle-class" people whatever or poeple living in HDB flats, there are decent people there making very good returns in their investments. I don't see why you have to go around saying that people buying in those areas are "regretting" - clearly there is nothing to regret if my property double in a short while?

And PRCs are everywhere - 40% of Sentosa Cove are PRCs. And Geylang is choke full of PRCs - and I still think it is an area with the greatest potential. We're talking about potential of an area.

I know you and AMK will go on and on about "high end" is for "high class" people like yourself etc etc. But it still doesn't say much about the potential of an area right?

Whatever lah. Everyone is cheapskate except you lah. Amazing. everyday talking about how "high-end" you are and love to hang around "high end" people - after some time, it gets dull. I'm not going to respond to any of these boasting any more.


I am talking objectively from experience relayed to me by my friends and colleagues. They all regretted buying condo units in HillView and Upper Bukit Timah areas. They bought that areas in first place because they are very cheap at one time (something like $500 psf for FH private condo unit!). However, same mentality prevails for mid-end PRCs. These group of PRCs like to buy cheap condos (and whatever that is cheap) regardless of location. HillView and Upper Bukit Timah areas are 1 main area the flock to, since it is also near NUS, and Science Park areas where many of these mid-end PRC workers work. Many of these also bought cars because they were also cheap at that time.

No, PRCs very difficult to find in CCR private properties except the really rich ones, but the mid-end PRCs are everywhere in OCR private condos (especially HillView and West Coast areas). These mid-end PRCs and their kids have very bad manners and behave quite badly and really can take advantage of everything like bathing and washing clothes in condos' common toilets (obviously not all of them are like that but quite many of them are like that).

Those in Upper Bukit Timah are the mid-end Koreans, and obviously there are more of these than the high-end Koreans (just like there are so many many more mid-end PRCs vs high-end PRCs). You know where the high-end Koreans mostly living? Give you a tip: Somewhere in CCR. This is for you to go find out if you want them as tenants!

[teddybear]

When did I say I am "high-end"? Never. I never said that. High-end or not is for other to say/comment, not for me, just like I only comment other people are high-end. :D

Did I ever said I despise "mid-end" or "low-end"? Again, NEVER! I am just referring to the term about their affordability and hence their choice of housing and location. :cheers1:

To summarize again: I am just saying that if you can afford it, it is worth buying CCR properties - you have the location, the amenities, the convenience, the short distance most things important in your life etc. Furthermore, you have no problem with the PRCs neighbours that so many are complaining about, including those from my friends and colleagues (I give them the same advise). In addition, CCR easier to rent out, higher capital appreciation potential, prices are not subjected to all the Govt tightening policies as compared to OCR. Talk of potential, please wait for another 10 years then come back to tell me based on the facts and figures. I can tell you, your OCR is like the penny stocks, go check up where they will be 10-20 years down the road.

Obviously if somebody cannot afford CCR, then there is nothing we can do. They just have to accept it, but don't go around talking down on CCR properties as useless, stupid & idiot to pay so much money for no benefits, boosting that they living in OCR can go anywhere in the city, including Orchard Road and Raffles Place as fast or even faster than those living in CCR. People don't need to use brains, just look at the map also know how can that be possible when Orchard Road and Raffles Place are already in CCR? :doh:


teddybear and amk, enough of your trumpeting your high class lifestyle amongst high-class people. i don't see how anyone buying Hillview at $400+psf in 2007 regretting, simply becos in a span of a 2 years, it's now >$800psf. Clearly, it is a good investment, by any definition. Not many places double within 2.5 years,

As to how much you despise "middle-class" people whatever or poeple living in HDB flats, there are decent people there making very good returns in their investments. I don't see why you have to go around saying that people buying in those areas are "regretting" - clearly there is nothing to regret if my property double in a short while?

And PRCs are everywhere - 40% of Sentosa Cove are PRCs. And Geylang is choke full of PRCs - and I still think it is an area with the greatest potential. We're talking about potential of an area.

I know you and AMK will go on and on about "high end" is for "high class" people like yourself etc etc. But it still doesn't say much about the potential of an area right?

Whatever lah. Everyone is cheapskate except you lah. Amazing. everyday talking about how "high-end" you are and love to hang around "high end" people - after some time, it gets dull. I'm not going to respond to any of these boasting any more.

[devilplate]

I got ppty in d11 but i prefer to stay in d18.... Dun like to stay in the city
Personal preference de lar

[Douk]

Wah! That one to become next "Geylang"? :D
Nowsaday D14 & D16 more famous for Vice? :scared-3:
d16? Which part?