View Full Version : Discussion : How will results at Singapore General Elections Affect Housing Prices ?
As title thread.
I do not think housing prices will be greatly affected regardless of any results at the elections.
This is because of the great rise in housing prices recently already happened.
It should remain at plateau level for awhile regardless what happen at GE.
Besides URA and HDB town planning will still continue no matter what result it will be.
ICA immigration plans will still continue no matter what result it will be.
I do not see any changes even if present government win or lose more seats than previous elections.
What are your thoughts ??
rattydrama
10-01-11, 13:18
there will be more houses/apartment and more FT buying houses.
For investment view point, its no longer like the golden days where just buy new launches, seat there and huatx3. Investor got to do more work and find gems within a vicinity and know the layout well to gain the best returns.
Previously the neighborhood usually have predictable growth/changes over the years. Now when you buy a condo with nice view, the next thing you would know, a few landed houses your house is facing might get en-bloc for a development that will tower over you...
it is the vocal minority who are complaining about increasing FWs and increasing property prices.
You are all property owners but you have keeping mum about the need for FWs to increase so that rental can go up, yield goes up, and price of property goes up again.
Unfortunately I am not Singaporean, so my words have no weight.
AGM over. Management doesn't have to give 2 hoots to the shareholders. Damn all those shareholders with all their silly questions. Next time, before AGM, give them more delicious food, until they are full and all the blood goes to the stomach instead of to the brain during Q & A time.
Better still, employ SYT so that even more blood goes to the nether regions and stomach, and none to the brain, make them full and fool.
govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs
probably some impact on private pty market but not as much
proud owner
10-01-11, 15:12
govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs
probably some impact on private pty market but not as much
i feel there will be more measures
govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)
spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs
probably some impact on private pty market but not as much
you sure they are sleeping?
Not a deliberate action on their part?
Sleeping on the job is a more forgivable action. Deliberate increase immigration and build less HDB is not a political wise action. So how can they admit?
Any JC economics can tell you about demand supply equation. More demand for housing together with less supply available equates to price move up.
Orchard Road flooding is sleeping on the job.
i feel there will be more measures
govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)
spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
It is good that you mentioned about Singapore lagging introducing more measures. If China/HK/Taiwan/etc has introduced those measures, won't Singapore government has political cover - as in look people, other countries has already introduced, so we also introduced more stringent measures to control runaway property prices. Using that as a political cover would mitigate any repercussions from a slight drop in property prices. people still vote in coming GE.
Afterall, when other countries raised their insurance payout platform for bank deposits, Singapore also raised from 20k to 200k? They gave the reason that other countries has implemented, if don't implement, funds would go to other countries that has blanket guarantee or higher payouts in case banks failed.
According to SM Goh, foreigner's are buying only air space. Money into real property cannot be taken out easily. More foreigners buying is good for Singapore. Sucking up all the funds.
i feel there will be more measures
govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)
spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
Wat r the chances the present policies are to bring in more of those $$$$? It certainly looks like that to me
What other countries are doing does not mean Singapore has to do it as well. If Singapore Govt always do same way as others, Singapore is already dead, no prosperity we are seeing today. It is short-sighted to target demand side measures for properties (they have learned this lesson since 1997), so Singapore target supply side measures, which is really clever move. Let the money come in never mind, they sell more land, build more properties to soak up the money. Because of the increased supply, prices of private properties will go up but not so much too quickly to achieve more sustainable growth over longer period of time (same for HDB flats but that one they are more concerned over price increase). Because there is no capital control, no demand side measure, coupled with super low housing loan interest rates and prospects of further S$ appreciation (convert to S$ and wait for appreciation also makes money, esp from US$), foreigners will be more comfortable bringing more money in to Singapore from overseas but these will be invested, and the Govt's target should be to direct these money to invest in properties which are less liquid and hence will not cause so much forex fluctuations and sudden outflow of capital as well in future. They are the biggest winners in terms of revenue collection! :beats-me-man:
Property prices up no good? Who said so? That small <10% people, the very VOCAL ones, waiting to buy properties and cow-pay cow-bull or the >90% already owning properties (but so far remains silent)? Is the <10% votes more important to them in the GE or the >90% votes? Regardless of GE or not, I believe their strategy so far has been well calibrated, that <10% hoping to buy cheap cheap, well, fat-hope for now! That commie can go and wait at the WC? :p
i feel there will be more measures
govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)
spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
i feel there will be more measures
govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)
spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
spore property price does not shoot up as high as them so i don think there is a need to introduce more drastic measure. even if there is, the more they will lower the LTV again. so far this has the greatest impact
proud owner
11-01-11, 09:15
What other countries are doing does not mean Singapore has to do it as well. If Singapore Govt always do same way as others, Singapore is already dead, no prosperity we are seeing today. It is short-sighted to target demand side measures for properties (they have learned this lesson since 1997), so Singapore target supply side measures, which is really clever move. Let the money come in never mind, they sell more land, build more properties to soak up the money. Because of the increased supply, prices of private properties will go up but not so much too quickly to achieve more sustainable growth over longer period of time (same for HDB flats but that one they are more concerned over price increase). Because there is no capital control, no demand side measure, coupled with super low housing loan interest rates and prospects of further S$ appreciation (convert to S$ and wait for appreciation also makes money, esp from US$), foreigners will be more comfortable bringing more money in to Singapore from overseas but these will be invested, and the Govt's target should be to direct these money to invest in properties which are less liquid and hence will not cause so much forex fluctuations and sudden outflow of capital as well in future. They are the biggest winners in terms of revenue collection! :beats-me-man:
Property prices up no good? Who said so? That small <10% people, the very VOCAL ones, waiting to buy properties and cow-pay cow-bull or the >90% already owning properties (but so far remains silent)? Is the <10% votes more important to them in the GE or the >90% votes? Regardless of GE or not, I believe their strategy so far has been well calibrated, that <10% hoping to buy cheap cheap, well, fat-hope for now! That commie can go and wait at the WC? :p
these so called foreign buyers ... theres no way to stop tehm from selling .. when things turn ..
it will be a bigger problem when they start to sell ..this is what govt is afriad of
these so called foreign buyers ... theres no way to stop tehm from selling .. when things turn ..
it will be a bigger problem when they start to sell ..this is what govt is afriad of
Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....
Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?
Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....
Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?
today over 35% in Spore are foriegners (25% non-residents, 10% PRs), as their number balloons the likelihood of a dubai-style run (i.e. default, not sell lol) increases when market crash.. such a run will be devastating for Spore and Sporeans
so to lock in more foreign $$ here, just lower LTV hehe.. bcos even the very rich relies on leverage and not everyone will pay full in cash :o
proud owner
11-01-11, 09:57
Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....
Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?
if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further
devilplate
11-01-11, 10:29
if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further
but hor, i dun feel hot monies arrived in SG leh......dun see much news on big fund buying up luxury homes.....more such news in 2007 leh
if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further
I don't represent everyone ;).
It is just that the volume of transactions and mortgagee sales are low even during downturns. Property prices are "sticky" downwards.
Even Goldman Sachs and 1 other company (forgot who - the one who own hostel) sell their commercial properties in 2009/10. And not during downturn.
is that a "given" that immigration policy will change after GE ?
but hor, i dun feel hot monies arrived in SG leh......dun see much news on big fund buying up luxury homes.....more such news in 2007 leh
actually i still not able to figure out how will the hot $$ flow to Spore. Understand that US is printing 600b of US dollars but how this 600b translate to hot money and flow to Asia?
my tot is:
1) US print $$
2) The $$ will flow to the bank?
3) The bank will loan to investment company to invest
4) Investment firm will invest in Asia property?
Care to share??
is that a "given" that immigration policy will change after GE ?
the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.
according to MBT, everything is about the election.
Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.
With inflation also comes increasing GDP, property prices increase (making >90% happier is better than making <10% happier, since Singapore is a democratic country where votes still counts), then come salary and bonus increase! Voila! :cheers1:
the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.
according to MBT, everything is about the election.
Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.
With inflation also comes increasing GDP, property prices increase (making >90% happier is better than making <10% happier, since Singapore is a democratic country where votes still counts), then come salary and bonus increase! Voila! :cheers1:
If you are right then these will happen :
Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.
Their salaries remain same as now.
Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.
Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.
Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?
Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.
The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??
If not, why and what is main culprit.
They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!
If you are right then these will happen :
Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.
Their salaries remain same as now.
Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.
Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.
Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?
Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.
The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??
If not, why and what is main culprit.
They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!
It will happen whether we wish it or not :tongue3:
so what do we do? be financially smart.
start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early :doh: or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago :doh:.
So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
Isn't it already happening already?
20 years ago a new HDB 5rm flat of 13xx sqft costs $90k.
Now a new HDB 5rm flat of 11xx sqft (smaller size some more!) costs $350k-600k !
20 years ago a fresh graduate earns about $1500 pm.
Now a fresh graduate earns about $3000 pm.
Income doubled (2x) over about 20 years, but new HDB flats increased by 3.9x to 6.7x !
Let's take another 20 years from now and we should see the same happening again.
What can you do constructively to remedy the above?
Well I can't do anything to remedy the above, but I can earn more money through all sort of investments, including leaving behind a few properties that have long-term value for my children and grand-children, some to live in and some to collect rental (so that they don't have worry about housing costs). :cheers1:
Think we should be seeing the first $1m HDB flat within 10 years time! :doh:
It will happen whether we wish it or not :tongue3:
so what do we do? be financially smart.
start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early :doh: or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago :doh:.
So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
If you are right then these will happen :
Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.
Their salaries remain same as now.
Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.
Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.
Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?
Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.
The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??
If not, why and what is main culprit.
They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!
the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.
according to MBT, everything is about the election.
Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.
The majority of those people I know do not want to be a minority in their homeland and are complainig about FT influx and associated problems.
It's a political suicide not to change long term policy so even after the election I doubt immigration policy is going to be as easy as before.
I truly feel sori for the young generation.
if u read The Straits Times yesterday, u will realise, it is the Chinese from mainland scrolling the top results, turning a F9 in English to A1 in two years.
Our younger generation has never been hungry before, how are they going to compete in 10 years down the road ? they will just blame the garment for not taking care of them.
The majority of those people I know do not want to be a minority in their homeland and are complainig about FT influx and associated problems.
It's a political suicide not to change long term policy so even after the election I doubt immigration policy is going to be as easy as before.
Who wants to be a minority anywhere? Be it minority Coptic church in Egypt. Minority Tamils in Sri Lanka, or minority Christian in Iraq.
Why do you think it is political suicide? So many walkovers. Opposition parties are fragmented. Even those parties that are for restricitive immigration policies like in Europe, Australia, they do not formed the government of that countries. Please don't tell me Uniquely Singapore again :doh: (where Singapore is unique, OCR=CCR), but that's another matter in another thread).
Please put yourselves in government shoes for once. Think of Singapore as a body corporate and all policies makes sense. Prosperity of the nation is more vital to the prosperity of any one individual.
Its hard being a leader. No matter what he do, the followers sure complaint. This not fair, that no fair. In fact, got one smart aleck commented "the only way to be fair to everybody is to treat everybody unfairly".
Pay me million dollar salary and the rest of you eat dust, fair? ;)
It will happen whether we wish it or not :tongue3:
so what do we do? be financially smart.
start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early :doh: or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago :doh:.
So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
Individuals can only do so much with personal investments.
Besides even investment returns these days cannot beat inflation.
Government is the one with most resources and information and controls everything, it is most well positioned to control inflation.
If the free flowing immigration continues, restricted supply of flats continue, agencies like ICA, HDB, LTA, URA never talk to each other,Singaporeans will continued to be screwed.
Jobs will remain limited and land can only be so much in Singapore. These 5 years, government is the biggest culprit for inflation.
Who wants to be a minority anywhere? Be it minority Coptic church in Egypt. Minority Tamils in Sri Lanka, or minority Christian in Iraq.
Why do you think it is political suicide? So many walkovers. Opposition parties are fragmented. Even those parties that are for restricitive immigration policies like in Europe, Australia, they do not formed the government of that countries. Please don't tell me Uniquely Singapore again :doh: (where Singapore is unique, OCR=CCR), but that's another matter in another thread).
Please put yourselves in government shoes for once. Think of Singapore as a body corporate and all policies makes sense. Prosperity of the nation is more vital to the prosperity of any one individual.
Its hard being a leader. No matter what he do, the followers sure complaint. This not fair, that no fair. In fact, got one smart aleck commented "the only way to be fair to everybody is to treat everybody unfairly".
Pay me million dollar salary and the rest of you eat dust, fair? ;)
Most people feel other political parties have improved and become more professional e.g. Workers Party.
If Singaporeans willing to give other political parties a chance like how PAP was given a chance back in 1960s when it was still an Opposition party, then policies can change.
This election, Wanbao already said all areas will be contested. Major internet forums also say the same thing. No more walkovers, a sign of political progress.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3020012
Prosperity of a nation depends on the prosperity of individuals. Not just civil servants.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3059750
Managing a country like how a company is manage seems a refreshing idea 20 years ago but now we see the disastrous results of it.
I prefer going back to basics and behaving like a country rather than company.
Singaporeans have no identity, no sense of belonging, no sense of home. Entire Singapore is like a hotel. This is what happens when a country behave like a company.
No, I don't agree.
Govt can do what they want with their policies etc.
We can do what we want with our money.
E.g.:
- Govt depreciate currency, we change to other currencies that can appreciate.
- Govt policies results in inflation and make property prices rise, then we buy properties first and benefit from price rise.
We can always benefit from whatever they do! Just need to move faster! It is the same everywhere! You either beat them or you get beaten by them. :cheers1:
- Singapore land too small and too crowded or you don't like their policies, simple - just migrate to other countries that you like. :D
Individuals can only do so much with personal investments.
Besides even investment returns these days cannot beat inflation.
Government is the one with most resources and information and controls everything, it is most well positioned to control inflation.
If the free flowing immigration continues, restricted supply of flats continue, agencies like ICA, HDB, LTA, URA never talk to each other,Singaporeans will continued to be screwed.
Jobs will remain limited and land can only be so much in Singapore. These 5 years, government is the biggest culprit for inflation.
To not let FT/FW come in is an economic suicide straight away (hits GDP growth & tax revenue etc), which will hit them quickly economically and will end up with political suicide. Which is more detrimental to them?
The majority of those people I know do not want to be a minority in their homeland and are complainig about FT influx and associated problems.
It's a political suicide not to change long term policy so even after the election I doubt immigration policy is going to be as easy as before.
Individuals can only do so much with personal investments.
Besides even investment returns these days cannot beat inflation.
Government is the one with most resources and information and controls everything, it is most well positioned to control inflation.
If the free flowing immigration continues, restricted supply of flats continue, agencies like ICA, HDB, LTA, URA never talk to each other,Singaporeans will continued to be screwed.
Jobs will remain limited and land can only be so much in Singapore. These 5 years, government is the biggest culprit for inflation.
I truly feel sori for the young generation.
if u read The Straits Times yesterday, u will realise, it is the Chinese from mainland scrolling the top results, turning a F9 in English to A1 in two years.
Our younger generation has never been hungry before, how are they going to compete in 10 years down the road ? they will just blame the garment for not taking care of them.
I am a fan of conspiracy theories :).
The excuse that agencies don't talk to each other is more politically forgivable than the fact that government plotted to increase immigration and restrict supply of flats. Remember, it is election time :)
Please think about the statement as Singapore as a body corporate.
Since when does a company ever thinks about employees, except as to think wether they are productive, or when leaving the company.
government = top management = board of directors
citizen = permanent workers = shareholders
foreigner = temporary workers
election = AGM = chance for shareholders to vote out management
If you think like that, then policies make sense, company's profit first, both short term and long term.
If I see more people applying to my company, and I can pick and choose the best ones, would I treat my current employees better? Give them higher salary etc? If you are not happy with the terms, you can jollywell leave my company, there are 10 queueing outside, waiting to get in, more hungry somemore :cool: It is an employer's market.
Have you noticed that it is the old employees who are more jaded, more lazy, more cynical, know only how to badmouth the company.
The chinese from mainland will be like the Singaporeans of the 1960s, 1970s. Succeed or die.
Injection of fresh blood is always good for the system. It is called hybrid vigor - that's why mongrels are more hardy than purebreeds
Try to be an employer for once, see wether you can withstand those unproductive buggers. Or if you have a maid, you will scold the maid for not completing chores, for being lazy.
proud owner
12-01-11, 09:40
I am a fan of conspiracy theories :).
The excuse that agencies don't talk to each other is more politically forgivable than the fact that government plotted to increase immigration and restrict supply of flats. Remember, it is election time :)
Please think about the statement as Singapore as a body corporate.
Since when does a company ever thinks about employees, except as to think wether they are productive, or when leaving the company.
government = top management = board of directors
citizen = permanent workers = shareholders
foreigner = temporary workers
election = AGM = chance for shareholders to vote out management
If you think like that, then policies make sense, company's profit first, both short term and long term.
If I see more people applying to my company, and I can pick and choose the best ones, would I treat my current employees better? Give them higher salary etc? If you are not happy with the terms, you can jollywell leave my company, there are 10 queueing outside, waiting to get in, more hungry somemore :cool: It is an employer's market.
Have you noticed that it is the old employees who are more jaded, more lazy, more cynical, know only how to badmouth the company.
The chinese from mainland will be like the Singaporeans of the 1960s, 1970s. Succeed or die.
Injection of fresh blood is always good for the system. It is called hybrid vigor - that's why mongrels are more hardy.
Try to be an employer for once, see wether you can withstand those unproductive buggers.
difference is this current employer has power over everyone else ..they can even change voting boundary to their advantage
they can give you all sort of excuses to raise ERP charges or erect another gantry ..or take car traffic count on school holidays and said ERP works to crub traffic .. etc ..
can u fight them ?
difference is this current employer has power over everyone else ..they can even change voting boundary to their advantage
they can give you all sort of excuses to raise ERP charges or erect another gantry ..or take car traffic count on school holidays and said ERP works to crub traffic .. etc ..
can u fight them ?
Doesn't every employers have total power over employees? what to wear/ what time to arrive etc.
Other government, like US also can change voting boundaries, it is called gerrymandering.
I only go for the ride as Teddybear mentioned. Have to be faster.
If they already said population to increase, then think what does a growing population needs. Basic needs are food and shelter. Of course, have benefits of hindsight. :ashamed1:. I also didnt think of that when government mentioned about population increase. I also not that clever :doh:
Why would I fight them if they are implementing policies that will increase property prices? And if they introduce measures to cap property prices in 2010, just accept it. I don't want to be a dead hero.
AGM = election = chance for diaffected shareholders to show dissatisfaction.
or for shareholders to withdraw and invest their life capital in another company.ie migrate away.
Personally, do you ever fight your boss? you know that if you fight, chances are that you get fired correct?
difference is this current employer has power over everyone else ..they can even change voting boundary to their advantage
well that's the rule of the game everywhere! if u r in power, u do the same.
PAP had the rare opportunity last time when the British already decided to go home. Politics is dirty, and opportunity only happens once in a life time!
plus, the current government is competent enough that I would not want to throw them out.
what really worries me is not PAP. but rather the spoiled younger generation who are totally lazy complacent, and blame the government for everything. Just take a look at the kids in hardwarezone. You are supposed to earn your first meal, first car and first house. Not "given"!
devilplate
12-01-11, 10:01
those who cannot make it in their own country will say outside pasture is greener....life is so simple:D :p
well that's the rule of the game everywhere! if u r in power, u do the same.
PAP had the rare opportunity last time when the British already decided to go home. Politics is dirty, and opportunity only happens once in a life time!
plus, the current government is competent enough that I would not want to throw them out.
what really worries me is not PAP. but rather the spoiled younger generation who are totally lazy complacent, and blame the government for everything. Just take a look at the kids in hardwarezone. You are supposed to earn your first meal, first car and first house. Not "given"!
Actually it is the stupid Barisan Sosialis that stage a walkout, giving the PAP all the levers of power of government. Just like that Venezulan opposition, decide to boycott election, and in the end, parliament is all made up of Hugo Chavez supporters.
Actualy if there is one area in which government is to be blamed, they made Singapore too clean. no beggars on the streets. Send wrong impression to kids. The ones begging now are schoolchildren in uniform :doh:.
Should set up a beggar's colony and send schoolchildren for field trips to beggar's colony every year. If not, children will think beggars have a nice life. Beggar's chicken so nice. Wah, so nice to be a beggar :doh:
well that's the rule of the game everywhere! if u r in power, u do the same.
PAP had the rare opportunity last time when the British already decided to go home. Politics is dirty, and opportunity only happens once in a life time!
plus, the current government is competent enough that I would not want to throw them out.
what really worries me is not PAP. but rather the spoiled younger generation who are totally lazy complacent, and blame the government for everything. Just take a look at the kids in hardwarezone. You are supposed to earn your first meal, first car and first house. Not "given"!
well u have to acknowledge that times have changed, younger generation their working lives now are a lot harder than their parent times.. even my own parents pointed this out years ago
besides it is true the current pap govt does no favour to citizens and is making life harder for the masses lol
the pap govt of today is also a lot less competent than the past :o
Regulators
12-01-11, 12:04
I think you are probably hoping that your constituency will not be a walkover
besides it is true the current pap govt does no favour to citizens and is making life harder for the masses lol
the pap govt of today is also a lot less competent than the past :o
I think you are probably hoping that your constituency will not be a walkover
if no opposition, August can volunteer to stand as opposition candidate.
With so many angry and dissatisfied citizens, I am pretty sure he will be elected as MP.
A lot of us here complain and complain, when it is time for action, everybody don't dare to take action, wait for one another.
Anybody here spoke out at Hong Lim Park? Can be famous, video by the police ;)
Proverb: "the nail that sticks out get hammered".
Wild Falcon
12-01-11, 16:49
Wow. Suddenly condosingapore become "political" liao :) The relevance to property market is HDB should really cater for citizens only. PRs and foreigners should just compete in the private property space. Very few countries provide public subsidised housing for PRs - there is no need to do so. The rule that allow siblings PR (they will meet the "parents overseas criteria) below 35 to buy HDB flat is ridiculous and should be abolished - which government has such pro-foreigner policy? HDB flats for citizens only - when that happens, HDB prices will correct and then maybe the younger generation will be happier?
Regulators
12-01-11, 17:53
Who said I never prove with action, I always vote for the losing team lol
if no opposition, August can volunteer to stand as opposition candidate.
With so many angry and dissatisfied citizens, I am pretty sure he will be elected as MP.
A lot of us here complain and complain, when it is time for action, everybody don't dare to take action, wait for one another.
Anybody here spoke out at Hong Lim Park? Can be famous, video by the police ;)
Proverb: "the nail that sticks out get hammered".
when that happens, HDB prices will correct and then maybe the younger generation will be happier?
I wish it's that simple. ;)
No they will not be happier. When they are buying their first house, they want it to be cheap. After they own it, they want to upgrade to condo easily, so they want resale price to be HIGH instead of LOW. They will start saying "I thought gov said HDB is supposed to be an asset. How come after x yrs my flat's value still only ### ?"
so how to make the younger generation happy ? :cool:
I think you are probably hoping that your constituency will not be a walkover
i chose to put my address in one where there seems to be contest :o
if no opposition, August can volunteer to stand as opposition candidate.
With so many angry and dissatisfied citizens, I am pretty sure he will be elected as MP.
A lot of us here complain and complain, when it is time for action, everybody don't dare to take action, wait for one another.
Anybody here spoke out at Hong Lim Park? Can be famous, video by the police ;)
Proverb: "the nail that sticks out get hammered".
what do u mean by take action?
exercising my right to vote is taking action
Regulators
12-01-11, 20:58
I hope more people like you in mbt's ward. I think his ward should be walkover lol
I saw pictures of the devastated Haiti.... Whole beach was filled with rubbish.... destroyed houses.... cholera zone etc...
we are so lucky... :spliff2:
Regulators
12-01-11, 22:08
are you telling us we are lucky becoz we have a good gahmen? :D
I saw pictures of the devastated Haiti.... Whole beach was filled with rubbish.... destroyed houses.... cholera zone etc...
we are so lucky... :spliff2:
Brisbane city in Australia kena the worst flooding ever. Sometimes Singapore seems to be a paradise. :)
Brisbane city in Australia kena the worst flooding ever. Sometimes Singapore seems to be a paradise. :)
I saw pictures of the devastated Haiti.... Whole beach was filled with rubbish.... destroyed houses.... cholera zone etc...
we are so lucky... :spliff2:
Present government cannot even handle small floods like Orchard Rd and gave very bad excuses, let alone manage bigger floods like Brisbane.
Singapore is lucky it does not have natural disasters like Brisbane flood and it has nothing to do with competency of present government.
Do not use worst case scenarios to make present government look competent. Compare apple with apple.
It is simply geographical position.
These 5 years have been bad.
After GE 2006,
Increase GST to 7%,
increase Minister's Pay to highest in the world,
2009 financial crisis,
property prices increase by 60%
COE sky rocket
Inflation hit 4%
UBS study shows Singapore salaries became lower.
Singaporeans purchasing power lowest among all developed nations
Singapore over crowded and over populated
Temasek Holdings and GIC made record losses. etc
I am not going to vote wrongly twice. Vote wisely.
Regulators
12-01-11, 23:49
how can you vote wrongly even once? :doh:
Present government cannot even handle small floods like Orchard Rd and gave very bad excuses, let alone manage bigger floods like Brisbane.
Singapore is lucky it does not have natural disasters like Brisbane flood and it has nothing to do with competency of present government.
Do not use worst case scenarios to make present government look competent. Compare apple with apple.
It is simply geographical position.
These 5 years have been bad.
After GE 2006,
Increase GST to 7%,
increase Minister's Pay to highest in the world,
2009 financial crisis,
property prices increase by 60%
COE sky rocket
Inflation hit 4%
UBS study shows Singapore salaries became lower.
Singaporeans purchasing power lowest among all developed nations
Singapore over crowded and over populated
Temasek Holdings and GIC made record losses. etc
I am not going to vote wrongly twice. Vote wisely.
Who said I never prove with action, I always vote for the losing team lol
Same here, I always for one of the losing parties, not because I like them, but because I don't want the winning party to have too much majority. :)
what do u mean by take action?
exercising my right to vote is taking action
Perhap you can convert all that pent up energy, all that anger to something more useful than just simply ticking? your party of choice. Like canvassing votes for opposition, be part of their logistics. BUT wait....Reality check....do I really want to volunteer for opposition parties, how about my career? sorry opposition guys, I have wife and kids to take care, I will vote for you but other than that, you are on your own.:doh:
are you telling us we are lucky becoz we have a good gahmen? :D
of course, just look at your $1 coin. all that Bagua protecting Singapore :D Given the freak weather all over the world, firestorms Russia, flooding Australia, snowstorms in US, Singapore is very lucky to have minor incidents like Orchard Road flooding. If government didn't have the foresight to put Bagua everywhere, the disasters would be much worse.
To all those critics of government:
If a crisis is averted, nobody to thank government because crisis didn't happen, public not averted.
yet a crisis happened and resolved, government get criticized because crisis happen.
Give me another milllion to my already million dollar salary. What a thankless job being a minister.
Regulators
13-01-11, 01:00
No denying that our gahmen is doing the job, but only a fraction of the mps are worth that kind of pay, many of them jia liao bi, any tom dick or harry can fill their shoes anytime.
anybody in this forum, who has enjoyed the fruits of property appreciation, should continue to vote the current gahmen. Why rock the boat, especially just for the sake of rocking it so that they don't have a large majority?
just look up north at what happens when you bring in an incompetent opposition (but that is not to say that the current gahmen there is competent in the first place, just less incompetent).
grass is always greener on the other side...we just finished with 14.6% growth and projected 4-5% this year. For the sake of my property investments, and despite all the cooling measures that have been put in place by the current gahmen, I do not want any CSJ types or a stroked out oldie in this gahmen this year...
proud owner
13-01-11, 07:50
Brisbane city in Australia kena the worst flooding ever. Sometimes Singapore seems to be a paradise. :)
wapiang
thats something i dont like to see
we always compare ourselves to WORST case and then say we are good
but we never compare with those better than us ..
london Tube and NY MTA subway have the best network ..
people dont compare that ..instead condemn say spore better cos our MRT are new and clean
so pls compare both good and bad
why not compare our housing with Ethiopia and say housing price ..their is HEAVEN
No denying that our gahmen is doing the job, but only a fraction of the mps are worth that kind of pay, many of them jia liao bi, any tom dick or harry can fill their shoes anytime.
Actually matter of politics. Why "first past the post" instead of "proportional representation." If less MPs, means each MP will represent more Singaporeans, the ward is bigger. In case of freak results.....
Eg, Singapore is 1 giant ward. If by freak chance, the opposition won once, the PAP govt will be swept out of power.
By slicing and dicing the wards, will ensure that even with freak results, opposition won't take over government.
Not easy being MP. That's why salary is high with the perks. I am so pro PAP, yet re-entry permit not extended, never invited to be citizen, much less invited to be a MP. Must be something wrong with me, time to face the wall and bang head:banghead:
.......
but we never compare with those better than us ..
london Tube and NY MTA subway have the best network ..
people dont compare that ..instead condemn say spore better cos our MRT are new and clean
........
Don't the governemnt aspire that Singaporeans have Swiss standard of living?
proud owner
13-01-11, 08:25
[quote=hopeful]Don't the governemnt aspire that Singaporeans have Swiss standard of living?[/quote
why not swiss standard of working hr and minimum pay ?
maternal and paternal leave ?
Singapore MRT system at current state is really lousy in terms of connectivity compared to London and Paris (although the latter 2 train systems and trains are so old and yet the trains can arrive in within 2 mins interval and Singapore MRT trains cannot arrive less than 2 mins (as quoted by some MRT spokesman unless they upgrade their signalling system) despite being so new and paid so much money for them? Sounds strange to me. Singapore MRT using World War-II train signalling system?). :banghead:
wapiang
thats something i dont like to see
we always compare ourselves to WORST case and then say we are good
but we never compare with those better than us ..
london Tube and NY MTA subway have the best network ..
people dont compare that ..instead condemn say spore better cos our MRT are new and clean
so pls compare both good and bad
why not compare our housing with Ethiopia and say housing price ..their is HEAVEN
:D:cheers1:
[quote=hopeful]Don't the governemnt aspire that Singaporeans have Swiss standard of living?[/quote
why not swiss standard of working hr and minimum pay ?
maternal and paternal leave ?
[quote=hopeful]Don't the governemnt aspire that Singaporeans have Swiss standard of living?[/quote
why not swiss standard of working hr and minimum pay ?
maternal and paternal leave ?
soon my little ones, We will arrive there. Swiss working hr, minimum pay, maternal, and paternal leave and social security and lower taxes. BUT the journey is long and the progress hard. You and I may not see it, but rest assured your children and grandchildren will enjoy the fruits of our labour. So let put our shoulder to the harness and PULL!!
left unsaid 1: in the meantime, you work your arse off for me.
left unsaid 2: my children will say the same thing to your children what i just said to you today. swiss dream is like a carrot in front of a donkey. my my, workers are damn stupid.
Why no Swiss standard of Ministers' pay? :p
[quote=proud owner]
soon my little ones, We will arrive there. Swiss working hr, minimum pay, maternal, and paternal leave and social security and lower taxes. BUT the journey is long and the progress hard. You and I may not see it, but rest assured your children and grandchildren will enjoy the fruits of our labour. So let put our shoulder to the harness and PULL!!
left unsaid 1: in the meantime, you work your arse off for me.
left unsaid 2: my children will say the same thing to your children what i just said to you today. swiss dream is like a carrot in front of a donkey.
is not that our govt is the best but looking at the quality of our opposition, do u think is wise to risk our country into their hand. our opposition is not like other country with talented people. the opposition here only know how to ask "WHY WHY WHY" but never propose any good suggestion. this kind of opposition....:doh: :doh: :doh:
is not that our govt is the best but looking at the quality of our opposition, do u think is wise to risk our country into their hand. our opposition is not like other country with talented people. the opposition here only know how to ask "WHY WHY WHY" but never propose any good suggestion. this kind of opposition....:doh: :doh: :doh:
This is because you are lazy to surf internet to read their parliament speeches and their policies.
At GE 2006, PAP manifesto only a few pages and is so vague and high level.
WP Manifesto was 50 odd pages long and detailed.
If you depend only on ST and CNA to know more about other political parties, you will forever know nothing and have skewed impression about them because ST and CNA are pro PAP.
If you observe, ST and CNA will only broadcast bad news about other parties and good news about PAP.
Snap out and do not be a frog in well.
devilplate
13-01-11, 09:35
This is because you are lazy to surf internet to read their parliament speeches and their policies.
At GE 2006, PAP manifesto only a few pages and is so vague and high level.
WP Manifesto was 50 odd pages long and detailed.
long = good? short= bad?:beats-me-man:
devilplate
13-01-11, 09:38
london Tube and NY MTA subway have the best network ..
people dont compare that ..instead condemn say spore better cos our MRT are new and clean
y london and NY best network? based on wat? survey? experts' opinion? i nvr do research....hehe
nvr tried NY....but London subway not impressive to me....
Japan(tokyo) is the best for me
devilplate
13-01-11, 09:40
Singapore MRT system at current state is really lousy in terms of connectivity compared to London and Paris (although the latter 2 train systems and trains are so old and yet the trains can arrive in within 2 mins interval and Singapore MRT trains cannot arrive less than 2 mins (as quoted by some MRT spokesman unless they upgrade their signalling system) despite being so new and paid so much money for them? Sounds strange to me. Singapore MRT using World War-II train signalling system?). :banghead:
y dunwan compare it with Japan? u got ppty in london /paris?
devilplate
13-01-11, 09:41
[quote=hopeful]Don't the governemnt aspire that Singaporeans have Swiss standard of living?[/quote
why not swiss standard of working hr and minimum pay ?
maternal and paternal leave ?
wah liu....all relax...den how to rise with china/india.....some say vietnam
proud owner
13-01-11, 09:47
y london and NY best network? based on wat? survey? experts' opinion? i nvr do research....hehe
nvr tried NY....but London subway not impressive to me....
Japan(tokyo) is the best for me
what i only want to hear is that :
If ours is WORLD CLASS..then it has to be new, arrive on time, good network ...
if these are not fulfilled please dont say its world class
pls dont call ourselves FIRST WORLD ..when we are still collecting TV license and radio license for cars ..
i once question them i only listent o my own CD and not radio ..their reply was once you have that capability to listen to radio ..you have to pay ..
i questioned them back .. go board a bus / mrt ... and see how many people have a device that can listen to radio ... why dont you demand that they pay radio license ...
they couldnt and never reply ..
this is FIRST WORLD
devilplate
13-01-11, 09:49
what i only want to hear is that :
If ours is WORLD CLASS..then it has to be new, arrive on time, good network ...
if these are not fulfilled please dont say its world class
pls dont call ourselves FIRST WORLD ..when we are still collecting TV license and radio license for cars ..
i once question them i only listent o my own CD and not radio ..their reply was once you have that capability to listen to radio ..you have to pay ..
i questioned them back .. go board a bus / mrt ... and see how many people have a device that can listen to radio ... why dont you demand that they pay radio license ...
they couldnt and never reply ..
this is FIRST WORLD
actually who r the ones/forummers who say SG world class and 1st world??
i only dare to say SG is aspiring to be 1st world/world class hehe:p
This is because you are lazy to surf internet to read their parliament speeches and their policies.
At GE 2006, PAP manifesto only a few pages and is so vague and high level.
WP Manifesto was 50 odd pages long and detailed.
If you depend only on ST and CNA to know more about other political parties, you will forever know nothing and have skewed impression about them because ST and CNA are pro PAP.
If you observe, ST and CNA will only broadcast bad news about other parties and good news about PAP.
Snap out and do not be a frog in well.
i don even bother to read their articles. so what if it is 50 or 5000 pages!!! if there is substance, one page can convince people. during parliament debate, u can see that they only know how to throw question to govt why implement this why implement that. who don know how to ask!!
proud owner
13-01-11, 10:00
actually who r the ones/forummers who say SG world class and 1st world??
i only dare to say SG is aspiring to be 1st world/world class hehe:p
our govt lor
sipei howlian
whatever happen to our humble asian culture
their modesty is second to none
our govt lor
sipei howlian
whatever happen to our humble asian culture
their modesty is second to none
how abt US? they are not howlian? they always boost like they are the big brother but the global crisis start by them. when china rise and boost their military, they said china is a threat. to the US, only they can be the superior, any country grow they pose them as threat :doh: :doh:
is not that our govt is the best but looking at the quality of our opposition, do u think is wise to risk our country into their hand. our opposition is not like other country with talented people. the opposition here only know how to ask "WHY WHY WHY" but never propose any good suggestion. this kind of opposition....:doh: :doh: :doh:
this proverb has been already been said:
fools ask more questions than wise men can answer.
y dunwan compare it with Japan? u got ppty in london /paris?
Actually I compared ours with Tokyo Metro. Nothing can beat Tokyo train system. If you can understand and conquer their system to reach your destination within the shortest possible time; Singaporean's system would really be chicken feet. The point being, their metro system and network are so complex, which incidentally is also not equipped with the youngest fleet of trains nor any other technological gimmicks; can easily triumphed over our "world class" MRT system with relative ease. Their trains are always on time into the stations and their train drivers will always ensure that everyone had board the train before closing the doors. Here? I am still waiting outside on the platform and the "doo-doo-doo-doo" alarm sounds off already! Of course I can't say much the same about Aussie or even London Metro but seriously, I just gotta admit that our very own Metro still have a long way to go before claiming that we are world class...
proud owner
13-01-11, 10:16
how abt US? they are not howlian? they always boost like they are the big brother but the global crisis start by them. when china rise and boost their military, they said china is a threat. to the US, only they can be the superior, any country grow they pose them as threat :doh: :doh:
oh yes they are howlian too
but as far as spore is concerned since we are really not THERE yet so pls dont say spore is first world
at least in US MTA card no need to pay
spore MRT store value $5 NON refundable
cheapskate
somemore i bought one that was issue 1.5 mth earlier and dare sell me as 5 yr ??
what i only want to hear is that :
If ours is WORLD CLASS..then it has to be new, arrive on time, good network ...
if these are not fulfilled please dont say its world class
why should it be new to be world class? other than that, seems to working fine to me, (i dont take train everyday - maybe 10 times in a year now).
what i only want to hear is that :
pls dont call ourselves FIRST WORLD ..when we are still collecting TV license and radio license for cars ..
i once question them i only listent o my own CD and not radio ..their reply was once you have that capability to listen to radio ..you have to pay ..
i questioned them back .. go board a bus / mrt ... and see how many people have a device that can listen to radio ... why dont you demand that they pay radio license ...
they couldnt and never reply ..
this is FIRST WORLD
well, you seems to be equating first world with not collecting TV license and radio license for cars. Or is the terminology wrong, instead of TV and radio license for cars, the government should be collecting IPOD license, IPAD license, Portable Media Player license?
Bureaucracy happens everywhere, even in States. Remember the case of firemen refusing to put out a burning house - why?
1) it did not happen in the firemen's area of responsibility.
2) owners didn't pay annual fee.
but point1) is more important because even if the owner did pay, fireman cannot put it out. From Hollywood movies, state police cannot chase criminals across state lines, is that true Proud Owner?
Imagine AMK police cannot chase criminals once they crossed to Bishan???
Present government cannot even handle small floods like Orchard Rd and gave very bad excuses, let alone manage bigger floods like Brisbane.
They handle by justifying the need to build the marina barrage to contain the flooding. After the barrage is completed, the flooding doesn't gets better. Then they say its due to global warming effects and they can't do anything about it. Best part is, the top fellow in PUB gets a medal for it. We are the only nation in this planet to be so forgiving. Perhaps I may stand a chance to get a medal as well by deforesting Mandai? :D
This is because you are lazy to surf internet to read their parliament speeches and their policies.
At GE 2006, PAP manifesto only a few pages and is so vague and high level.
WP Manifesto was 50 odd pages long and detailed.
If you depend only on ST and CNA to know more about other political parties, you will forever know nothing and have skewed impression about them because ST and CNA are pro PAP.
If you observe, ST and CNA will only broadcast bad news about other parties and good news about PAP.
Snap out and do not be a frog in well.
One simple question:
What are you going to do it?
To snap out and be a human being in a well? To know the world and to realise that you are still in a well?
Whatever happen to all that anger, all that drive? All that anger is needed just to exercise your vote? Otherwise political apathy will just make you sit at home and watch TV?
Or you vent your anger in forums, and when come voting time, choose PAP because you still stay in HDB and it hasnt been upgraded yet?
i don even bother to read their articles. so what if it is 50 or 5000 pages!!!
lol enough said :D
devilplate
13-01-11, 10:41
Actually I compared ours with Tokyo Metro. Nothing can beat Tokyo train system. If you can understand and conquer their system to reach your destination within the shortest possible time; Singaporean's system would really be chicken feet. The point being, their metro system and network are so complex, which incidentally is also not equipped with the youngest fleet of trains nor any other technological gimmicks; can easily triumphed over our "world class" MRT system with relative ease. Their trains are always on time into the stations and their train drivers will always ensure that everyone had board the train before closing the doors. Here? I am still waiting outside on the platform and the "doo-doo-doo-doo" alarm sounds off already! Of course I can't say much the same about Aussie or even London Metro but seriously, I just gotta admit that our very own Metro still have a long way to go before claiming that we are world class...
I oredi said japan best railway network but ppl keep saying london best... Lol
One simple question:
What are you going to do it?
To snap out and be a human being in a well? To know the world and to realise that you are still in a well?
Whatever happen to all that anger, all that drive? All that anger is needed just to exercise your vote? Otherwise political apathy will just make you sit at home and watch TV?
Or you vent your anger in forums, and when come voting time, choose PAP because you still stay in HDB and it hasnt been upgraded yet?
what is your point really throwing all these fallacious questions? :confused:
They handle by justifying the need to build the marina barrage to contain the flooding. After the barrage is completed, the flooding doesn't gets better. Then they say its due to global warming effects and they can't do anything about it. Best part is, the top fellow in PUB gets a medal for it. We are the only nation in this planet to be so forgiving. Perhaps I may stand a chance to get a medal as well by deforesting Mandai? :D
That's the thankless part of being in government.
Implement policies to prevent something from happening, nobody appreciate.
Failed to implement policies, and get criticised like hell.
Just like Obama, spend almost a billion yet unemployment rate remain at 9%++. Was attacked by Republicans for wasting.
Yet if he didn't spend that money, would unemployment rate have remain at 9% or above 10%.
Economists tend to incline that unemployment rate would have been above 10%. But whoever listens to economists right?
How to experiment with public policies? dismantle Marina Barrage and let Orchard Rd flooding happen again? See how high the flood goes this time round?
one zen thought for you:
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
what is your point really throwing all these fallacious questions? :confused:
as pointless as criticising the government ;). :D.
as pointless as criticising the government ;). :D.
so i reckon u do not criticise your own govt? :confused:
Or you vent your anger in forums, and when come voting time, choose PAP because you still stay in HDB and it hasnt been upgraded yet?
I'm impressed. :)
U understand SG very well huh
i don even bother to read their articles. so what if it is 50 or 5000 pages!!! if there is substance, one page can convince people. during parliament debate, u can see that they only know how to throw question to govt why implement this why implement that. who don know how to ask!!
Talking about substance, how I know PAP MPs got substance when they ask ZERO questions in parliament for 5 years ?
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2995572&page=3
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2996370
Using your logic, why don't you ask Ministers get same pay as US, Europe, Australian and Japanese counterparts instead of have a minimum wage to prevent corruption ?
Use natural passion, high morals, good character to serve instead of using highest amount of money to buy passion, hugh morals and good character to serve.
Substance enough ?
Because using same logic, alot of people are already corrupt since most Singaporeans are not paid above market rate but below market rate.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=50626529&posted=1#post50626529
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3015743
This is because you are lazy to surf internet to read their parliament speeches and their policies.
At GE 2006, PAP manifesto only a few pages and is so vague and high level.
WP Manifesto was 50 odd pages long and detailed.
If you depend only on ST and CNA to know more about other political parties, you will forever know nothing and have skewed impression about them because ST and CNA are pro PAP.
If you observe, ST and CNA will only broadcast bad news about other parties and good news about PAP.
Snap out and do not be a frog in well.
Self Explanatory.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3017224
http://www.facebook.com/cheamjessica/posts/147482371967023
http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=41952.1
http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=41979.1
That's the thankless part of being in government.
Implement policies to prevent something from happening, nobody appreciate.
Failed to implement policies, and get criticised like hell.
Just like Obama, spend almost a billion yet unemployment rate remain at 9%++. Was attacked by Republicans for wasting.
Yet if he didn't spend that money, would unemployment rate have remain at 9% or above 10%.
Economists tend to incline that unemployment rate would have been above 10%. But whoever listens to economists right?
How to experiment with public policies? dismantle Marina Barrage and let Orchard Rd flooding happen again? See how high the flood goes this time round?
one zen thought for you:
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
Well Sir,
There is a conspiracy theory going around with regards to the construction of the marina barrage. And it is a fengshui related one. So it is not quite possible for average joe like us to be thankful for such policies that served other hidden purposes/agendas... ;)
Regulators
13-01-11, 11:05
If opposition don't ask questions to check on gahmen, who will ask? You? Use your brains to think when you post. Opposition's duty is check and balance, not to ask for the sake of asking. Nobody saying that our gahmen should be overthrown, we just need more opposition in parliament to check on gahmen policy implementation
is not that our govt is the best but looking at the quality of our opposition, do u think is wise to risk our country into their hand. our opposition is not like other country with talented people. the opposition here only know how to ask "WHY WHY WHY" but never propose any good suggestion. this kind of opposition....:doh: :doh: :doh:
Well Sir,
There is a conspiracy theory going around with regards to the construction of the marina barrage. And it is a fengshui related one. So it is not quite possible for average joe like us to be thankful for such policies that served other hidden purposes/agendas... ;)
fyi
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=47377339
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=47377339
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2872339
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2813062
so i reckon u do not criticise your own govt? :confused:
no. I accepted that as reality. Everybody
1) work inside the system when it suits them.
2) work outside the system when it suits them.
In the meantime, accumulate wealth and spend part of that wealth to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle :cool:. The rest leave to descendants.
when come voting time, i always voted for the losing parties, so that the winning parties won't have too much majority. Even though I know it is only a single vote. A fractious government would result in new policies not implemented, ie status quo.
Using your logic, why don't you ask Ministers get same pay as US, Europe, Australian and Japanese counterparts instead of have a minimum wage to prevent corruption ?
U r too obsessed with other people's pay already lah.
for me I dun care how many mil they get paid. as long as GDP grows and STI grows and S$ appreciates, I'm happy.
opposition couldn't even get themselves agreed with each other. how to run major policies ?
for now, status quo is good.
no. I accepted that as reality. Everybody
1) work inside the system when it suits them.
2) work outside the system when it suits them.
In the meantime, accumulate wealth and spend part of that wealth to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle :cool:. The rest leave to descendants.
when come voting time, i always voted for the losing parties, so that the winning parties won't have too much majority. Even though I know it is only a single vote. A fractious government would result in new policies not implemented, ie status quo.
I prefer policies taking a slower time or not implemented at all.
Not all policies are right.
Looking at the past , policies are implemented wholesale, chopped and changed along the way with little consideration.
HDB cooling measures and COE cut are just small samples.
The reasons is because policies get little debate in Parliament and just get implemented then adopt 'wait-and-see' approach.
The high frequency of new policies and changes to policies can be disruptive and scary especially after disasters happen like Nicholl Highway Collapse.
The wonder people say Singapore laws and policies keep chopping and changing leaving people confused.
I vote for a more thorough debate in Parliament before Bills are passed or not passed.
Only a stronger alternative party can do this.
If opposition don't ask questions to check on gahmen, who will ask? You? Use your brains to think when you post. Opposition's duty is check and balance, not to ask for the sake of asking. Nobody saying that our gahmen should be overthrown, we just need more opposition in parliament to check on gahmen policy implementation
of course i am using my brain when i post. if their job is just to throw "why" question. so what if they ask question, govt will have answer for their 101 questions and then wat?? case close!!! will their why question powerful enough to change the policy? NO!!! so far i think govt has done well for the country. if opposition really want to challenge the govt, they need to recruit more quality people and not any tom dick harry from street!!!
no. I accepted that as reality. Everybody
1) work inside the system when it suits them.
2) work outside the system when it suits them.
In the meantime, accumulate wealth and spend part of that wealth to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle :cool:. The rest leave to descendants.
when come voting time, i always voted for the losing parties, so that the winning parties won't have too much majority. Even though I know it is only a single vote. A fractious government would result in new policies not implemented, ie status quo.
if u don't criticise your govt for watever reasons u deem fit
then u shld not scorn on others who saw it fit to criticise their govt :o
Wenqing, thank you for posting the articles and opened up the mind of readers here.
I am angry with you. Previously I was just a frog in a well, ignorant of so many things. Life was blissful then. Now I am a human being a well, aware of outside world but cannot do anything about it.:p
Despite me saying that I would vote for losing parties, in Singapore, if I become a citizen, I would vote for PAP because my vote can be tracked. That's life for you...and self-interest for you.:p
U r too obsessed with other people's pay already lah.
for me I dun care how many mil they get paid. as long as GDP grows and STI grows and S$ appreciates, I'm happy.
opposition couldn't even get themselves agreed with each other. how to run major policies ?
for now, status quo is good.
precisely, if i pay 1 million $ to a person that can bring in 2 million $. why not?? this is corporate strategy and it work!!
Wenqing, thank you for posting the articles and opened up the mind of readers here.
I am angry with you. Previously I was just a frog in a well, ignorant of so many things. Life was blissful then. Now I am a human being a well, aware of outside world but cannot do anything about it.:p
Despite me saying that I would vote for losing parties, in Singapore, if I become a citizen, I would vote for PAP because my vote can be tracked. That's life for you...and self-interest for you.:p
hahaha is this a fact? or it is popular imagination aimed at spreading fear? :o
Regulators
13-01-11, 11:28
you can say that opposition questions are not enough to change policy, but if the govt don't answer their why questions or answer the questions inadequately, the people will start to question govt policy and this will have negative consequences on the govt. For people affected by their policies which are not well substantiated, they effectively stand to lose their votes. Is this a small matter to you? In some wards during last election, PAP won by only a small margin and no win was by a huge margin of 80%. Our govt will have the 40 odd % of people who vote for opposition in certain wards to convince as it could easily tip to 51% in the next election. Do you then think that questions asked by opposition in parliament are insignificant? Maybe you are too used to living in an autocratic system that you have forgotten what democracy is :doh:
of course i am using my brain when i post. if their job is just to throw "why" question. so what if they ask question, govt will have answer for their 101 questions and then wat?? case close!!! will their why question powerful enough to change the policy? NO!!! so far i think govt has done well for the country. if opposition really want to challenge the govt, they need to recruit more quality people and not any tom dick harry from street!!!
U r too obsessed with other people's pay already lah.
for me I dun care how many mil they get paid. as long as GDP grows and STI grows and S$ appreciates, I'm happy.
opposition couldn't even get themselves agreed with each other. how to run major policies ?
for now, status quo is good.
What makes you say alternative parties cannot agree with each other ?
From ST or CNA ?
A member from SPP got posted overseas and resign from central committee for natural reasons but ST make it a soap drama by painting a power struggle.
You trust such media ?
Besides they are not even government before, how to disagree with each other ?
At any work place, people agree to disagree is common culture unless you work in North Korea.
PAP also got disagreements , just that ST and CNA do not print them for good imaging.
China already say GDP can be manipulated and man-made, you depend on GDP alone at your own risk.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1097714/1/.html
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3017408
GDP does not signify anything or true indicator of prosperity or else Singaporeans purchasing power will be the highest and not lowest.
Most Singaporeans do not feel affected by high GDP figures.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3051537
Besides Singapore GDP is civil service only KPI, it is their interest to just focus on this figure.
But Singapore GDP figures is short term and artificial which rely on mass import of FTs/ PRs / New Citizens and people getting into 10 years -40 years loan to bring up the figures.
It is foreign fuelled and debt-fuelled which cannot sustain in long run.
This type of GDP is too easy to implement.
Singapore PRship and citizenship as worth as toilet paper.
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports).
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3000226
Good luck to you on just relying on GDP.
precisely, if i pay 1 million $ to a person that can bring in 2 million $. why not?? this is corporate strategy and it work!!
Then they should join Big Business and private sector to get Big Business salaries.
Public Service is not a place to earn Big Business salaries.
The SLA fraud are best examples.
We are a country, not company.
hahaha is this a fact? or it is popular imagination aimed at spreading fear? :o
1) How many times did government say they can't track cars using IU before implementing ERP system.
just after implementing, have overpayment case I think. Refund them.
2) Just few days ago, they refund 4cents for overpayment.
so I leave it up to you to decide.
For me, safety for me more important than my political beliefs. ie money in wallet more important.
Another saying:
When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.
guys I think we better stop here.. no need to turn this into a political forum. waste of bandwidth.
Once in a while, I indulged in self-pity. Why can't I be as passionate about changing the world as those passionate idealist out there.
Why am I so shallow, interested only in money and family. Sigh....
Then I see those passionate idealist got whack, I just get back to what I am doing. The era of revolution is over.
of course i am using my brain when i post. if their job is just to throw "why" question. so what if they ask question, govt will have answer for their 101 questions and then wat?? case close!!! will their why question powerful enough to change the policy? NO!!! so far i think govt has done well for the country. if opposition really want to challenge the govt, they need to recruit more quality people and not any tom dick harry from street!!!
You think PAP MPs are not Tom, Dick & Harry ?
Look at the low EQ speeches and statements, gaffes and unbelievable reasons it made last 5 years.
They would be fried in the private sector at their level.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=46534681
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2996388
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3058584
Alternative parties like WP has improved and transformed itself. Even civil servants are joining it.
I think every party deserve a fair chance and review instead of stereotypes.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3041269
http://geraldgiam.sg/2010/09/your-vote-is-secret/
Wenqing, I can see that you are a really passionate young man.
Here's wishing you good luck on changing the political representation in Singapore.
Perhaps, you might like to wish me good luck that 2011 is CCR year, on behalf of CCR property owners here.
proud owner
13-01-11, 12:10
why should it be new to be world class? other than that, seems to working fine to me, (i dont take train everyday - maybe 10 times in a year now).
well, you seems to be equating first world with not collecting TV license and radio license for cars. Or is the terminology wrong, instead of TV and radio license for cars, the government should be collecting IPOD license, IPAD license, Portable Media Player license?
Bureaucracy happens everywhere, even in States. Remember the case of firemen refusing to put out a burning house - why?
1) it did not happen in the firemen's area of responsibility.
2) owners didn't pay annual fee.
but point1) is more important because even if the owner did pay, fireman cannot put it out. From Hollywood movies, state police cannot chase criminals across state lines, is that true Proud Owner?
Imagine AMK police cannot chase criminals once they crossed to Bishan???
check with your friends in police force
1.it is true AMK patrol car cannot chase burglar into bishan
2.singapore also mah .. call ambulance .. if dont pay they wont take u
3.go to court : guilty or not ?
No i didnt do it ..
ok go pay fine ..come back another day ..
Once in a while, I indulged in self-pity. Why can't I be as passionate about changing the world as those passionate idealist out there.
Why am I so shallow, interested only in money and family. Sigh....
Then I see those passionate idealist got whack, I just get back to what I am doing. The era of revolution is over.
u non-sporean rite? indon rite? is that why u left Indo? :o
Wenqing, I can see that you are a really passionate young man.
Here's wishing you good luck on changing the political representation in Singapore.
Perhaps, you might like to wish me good luck that 2011 is CCR year, on behalf of CCR property owners here.
Good news for you.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3051085
devilplate
13-01-11, 13:43
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
Regulators
13-01-11, 14:13
i not struggling but i buay song some of gahmen's policies, anything wrong?
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
devilplate
13-01-11, 14:44
i not struggling but i buay song some of gahmen's policies, anything wrong?
Did i say those who vote for opposition cfm struggling wif their lives? :p
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
hmm... i am not struggling leh :)
but i want change bcos i want to see accountability
hmm... i am not struggling leh :)
but i want change bcos i want to see accountability
i am struggling but i don want to struggle with opposition :tongue3:
i am struggling but i don want to struggle with opposition :tongue3:
if u are struggling now, then u will almost certain to continue struggling voting for the pap hahaha :)
Did i say those who vote for opposition cfm struggling wif their lives? :p
typical response from house salesman...say already than say never say...seen so many liao of this kind of pattern...:doh:
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
Did i say those who vote for opposition cfm struggling wif their lives? :p
typical response from house salesman...say already than say never say...seen so many liao of this kind of pattern...:doh:
peterng8, please know cause and effect. Please know that A causes B doesn't mean B is only caused by A.
Devilplate is mentioning that those who r struggling will tend to vote for opposition. It doesn't necesarrily mean that those who vote for opposition are struggling.
If a non-native English speaker can understand this logic, I am baffled why you can't understand this logic. No wonder Chinese students are outperforming native Singaporeans :doh:
for those who dislike government policies, please follow the example of Gorbachev.
If Gorbachev had revealed his intention while he is still a junior, he would never have reached the pinnacle of power in the USSR.
So to all those idealist, join PAP, join grassroots, work from within. Climb up the ranks. Become MP, then cabinet minister, then finally PM.
If you still have the ideals when you reached the post of PM, then do whatever you like to open up Singapore.
No point fighting from outside, fight from within.
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
Devilplate, you are right :)
I am struggling to reach UHNW status. and yes I vote for opposition which always loses. and yes I blame my parents for being so risk adverse, FD & pay condo full cash, and for not listening to my advice, if only they had listened, we would be so much richer :banghead:
Devilplate, you are right :)
I am struggling to reach UHNW status. and yes I vote for opposition which always loses. and yes I blame my parents for being so risk adverse, FD & pay condo full cash, and for not listening to my advice, if only they had listened, we would be so much richer :banghead:
hey ,
u own a 4 bedder at Dakota Residence and paid $1.8m for it. Are you still not UHNW ?
hey ,
u own a 4 bedder at Dakota Residence and paid $1.8m for it. Are you still not UHNW ?
Think you got the wrong person. I am purely CCR. UHNW is 30mil and above
Regulators
13-01-11, 17:42
Do you think north koreans who want change can fight from within?
for those who dislike government policies, please follow the example of Gorbachev.
If Gorbachev had revealed his intention while he is still a junior, he would never have reached the pinnacle of power in the USSR.
So to all those idealist, join PAP, join grassroots, work from within. Climb up the ranks. Become MP, then cabinet minister, then finally PM.
If you still have the ideals when you reached the post of PM, then do whatever you like to open up Singapore.
No point fighting from outside, fight from within.
devilplate
13-01-11, 17:43
typical response from house salesman...say already than say never say...seen so many liao of this kind of pattern...:doh:
y :doh: :doh: :doh: ??
tell me more?
devilplate
13-01-11, 17:44
Do you think north koreans who want change can fight from within?
but who gona suffer?? :scared-3: :doh:
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
http://forums.condosingapore.com/images/icons/favicon.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilplate
Did i say those who vote for opposition cfm struggling wif their lives? :p
typical response from house salesman...say already than say never say...seen so many liao of this kind of pattern...:doh:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
-------------------------------------------------
look at the above quotes ...dear devilplate :D
peterng8, please know cause and effect. Please know that A causes B doesn't mean B is only caused by A.
Devilplate is mentioning that those who r struggling will tend to vote for opposition. It doesn't necesarrily mean that those who vote for opposition are struggling.
If a non-native English speaker can understand this logic, I am baffled why you can't understand this logic. No wonder Chinese students are outperforming native Singaporeans :doh:
one is micro the other is macro....it like LPPL...language game will only with some people...:)
kingkong1984
13-01-11, 20:52
If u r smart, u only have one choice and one right choice. The power has to be there to reverse it. 50 50 weight won't work. Opp un proven, could be worst nightmare. Where the cure is worst than the pain. The medicine worst than the cure.
This world is so unfair!!!
Wild Falcon
13-01-11, 21:08
Not true. The well-heeled and educated ones as well - they're looking for new ideas and diversity.
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
kingkong1984
13-01-11, 22:22
:scared-2: :flaming-head: :gun3: :gun3: :gun3: :gun3: :sign_mom: :tongue-fingers: :sleep: :gun4: :luke-and-darth:
Those who r struggling in sg will tend to vote for opposition n hope for a change...they will blame anything else other den themselves ..... Hehe
I hf witness so many life examples
By the time you wait until you are struggling or dying than vote in new government, it will be too late. :doh:
Australians vote out John Howard after 11 years as PM and despite record economic growth is because he was PM for too long.
If u r smart, u only have one choice and one right choice. The power has to be there to reverse it. 50 50 weight won't work. Opp un proven, could be worst nightmare. Where the cure is worst than the pain. The medicine worst than the cure.
This world is so unfair!!!
The other parties cup is empty and no track record as government so there is a chance it will do well.
Compare to now which we all know the verdict and sealed, nothing will improve.
devilplate
14-01-11, 00:28
By the time you wait until you are struggling or dying than vote in new government, it will be too late. :doh:
Australians vote out John Howard after 11 years as PM and despite record economic growth is because he was PM for too long.
so wats ur views of the latest cooling measures? Mr OPP:D
devilplate
14-01-11, 00:30
Not true. The well-heeled and educated ones as well - they're looking for new ideas and diversity.
wah liu....i say struggling ones tend to vote for opp....y suddenly everyone tot tat i meant only struggling ones vote for opp....:doh: including agt ng;)
Do you think north koreans who want change can fight from within?
Gorbachev has proven that it can be done. However as often as is the case, people lose their ideals when they got into power. They become what they opposed.
wah liu....i say struggling ones tend to vote for opp....y suddenly everyone tot tat i meant only struggling ones vote for opp....:doh: including agt ng;)
see only what they want to see and their command of the english language not so powderful. :doh:. Not everyone missed your point. (pat myself on the back).
devilplate
14-01-11, 00:41
see only what they want to see and their command of the english language not so powderful. :doh:. Not everyone missed your point. (pat myself on the back).
or mabe my singlish too misleading....last time got entangled b4 by using the wrong word:scared-3: ....smthing like independent mortgage banker vs mobile banker....lol:ashamed1: :o
Wonder how yesterday's cooling measures will affect election results and votes, esp MBT ward.
Wonder how yesterday's cooling measures will affect election results and votes, esp MBT ward.
HDB prices still rising... i expect some measures before GE
HDB prices still rising... i expect some measures before GE If there's direct measures @HDB, then it will dampen the spirits and sentiments of the general population. Personally, i don 't think they want to do that & annoy the HDB heartlanders..., as long small and steady increase, it will be OK, this is what MM said and tell all to hang on to your HDB flats, it will be a appreciating asset - but slow and steady (probably they just want increase to be more than inflation - good enough).
If there's direct measures @HDB, then it will dampen the spirits and sentiments of the general population. Personally, i don 't think they want to do that & annoy the HDB heartlanders..., as long small and steady increase, it will be OK, this is what MM said and tell all to hang on to your HDB flats, it will be a appreciating asset - but slow and steady (probably they just want increase to be more than inflation - good enough).
Wonder if civil servants have got their bonus already? Those Super Scale officers with their fat bonus, this cooling measures is perfect, cash rich to buy....
wah liu....i say struggling ones tend to vote for opp....y suddenly everyone tot tat i meant only struggling ones vote for opp....:doh: including agt ng;)
sorry I am not in the same trade as you....:) look at the way I hammer housing salesmen u know...:D I do like your nick devilplate...sounds naughty ha ha...
U and hopeful(hope price increases or price decreases?) have same level of thinking....maybe same trade he he:p
Wonder how yesterday's cooling measures will affect election results and votes, esp MBT ward.
Actually if MBT is forced out, would it change anything? Probably he would be a civil servant, the brain behind the operation. The next housing minister would just be the public face and take instructions from MBT.
devilplate
14-01-11, 15:48
sorry I am not in the same trade as you....:) look at the way I hammer housing salesmen u know...:D I do like your nick devilplate...sounds naughty ha ha...
U and hopeful(hope price increases or price decreases?) have same level of thinking....maybe same trade he he:p
Wow... Anymore agt ng??
sorry I am not in the same trade as you....:) look at the way I hammer housing salesmen u know...:D I do like your nick devilplate...sounds naughty ha ha...
U and hopeful(hope price increases or price decreases?) have same level of thinking....maybe same trade he he:p
what trade are you talking about? We are not trading properties. We are property investors. Because if we are trading properties, we would be taxed on our trading profits :P
BTW, how do you hammer housing salesman?
What brain are you talking about. MBT has no brains. If you look at his cv u will realize the only reason he got the job is cuz he is lky crony. His past work experience and education is pathetic
Actually if MBT is forced out, would it change anything? Probably he would be a civil servant, the brain behind the operation. The next housing minister would just be the public face and take instructions from MBT.
Regulators
15-01-11, 14:21
Force him out first then talk later lol
Actually if MBT is forced out, would it change anything? Probably he would be a civil servant, the brain behind the operation. The next housing minister would just be the public face and take instructions from MBT.
Wow... Anymore agt ng??
yes? agent devilplate, nothing more to say just wait for the market to be more clear...
yes? agent devilplate, nothing more to say just wait for the market to be more clear...
cool... agent eat grass and waste time here.. its a black period now. Golden opportunity for the real investors and buyers.
cool... agent eat grass and waste time here.. its a black period now. Golden opportunity for the real investors and buyers.
wat opportunity? volume will be low.
What brain are you talking about. MBT has no brains. If you look at his cv u will realize the only reason he got the job is cuz he is lky crony. His past work experience and education is pathetic
Read this: Self-contradiciting interview.
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/search/forum/mah%20bow%20tan
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=51093388
Mah Bow Tan: 'I get more flak than usual, especially on the Internet.'
Force him out first then talk later lol
Depends on Tampines GRC voters but MBT is indeed more desperate than in the past.
Depends on Tampines GRC voters but MBT is indeed more desperate than in the past.
From his Facebook postings, u know he is working very very very hard.
At his age and wealth, I really give him the true respect
From his Facebook postings, u know he is working very very very hard.
At his age and wealth, I really give him the true respect
That's right. From ampong boy to minister, according to his stories in newspaper. A made in Singapore success story.
From his Facebook postings, u know he is working very very very hard.
At his age and wealth, I really give him the true respect
Self praise and self propaganda ??
:ashamed1: :scared-4: :scared-4:
read this story somewhere, dont know true or not since I am not a crab farmer.
If you keep a single crab in a basket, need to tie the crab up since he can crawl out.
If keep lots of crab in a basket, no need to tie any of the crabs at all, if a crab halfway up, the rest of crabs at the bottom will pull him down.
Give credit when it is due.
From his Facebook postings, u know he is working very very very hard.
At his age and wealth, I really give him the true respect
lol wat a joke
read this story somewhere, dont know true or not since I am not a crab farmer.
If you keep a single crab in a basket, need to tie the crab up since he can crawl out.
If keep lots of crab in a basket, no need to tie any of the crabs at all, if a crab halfway up, the rest of crabs at the bottom will pull him down.
Give credit when it is due.
I will give credit when it is due but which part is credit ?
And do ST and CNA give criticism and flak when it is due too?
I only see lots of credit given whether due or not.
At transport, low EQ reasons like COE and ERP is to curb traffic jams is given when the obvious problems is increase in immigrants and population increase of cars on the road.
Even carparks at HDB is not enough these days.
Not enough roads were plan and built to cushion the floodgates of immigrants.
Public transport is even worse off. Jam like sardines everyday.
At MND, give reasons like 30 to 40 years housing loan means house is affordable. Who will work 30 years and expect same pay too ?
Why not 50 years loan and everybody can buy anything they want ?
How about kids and other expenses ?
Demand and supply of housing past 5 years is greatly distorted by government policies or else how did some housing increase by 100% ?
Some newer flats bought for 5 years ago at 2xx is worth 4xx today.
Give flak when it is due.
devilplate
18-01-11, 10:46
flaks everywhr:p
flaks everywhr:p
biggest joke is that ypap dog who likens LKY to nelson mandela
I will give credit when it is due but which part is credit ?
And do ST and CNA give criticism and flak when it is due too?
I only see lots of credit given whether due or not.
At transport, low EQ reasons like COE and ERP is to curb traffic jams is given when the obvious problems is increase in immigrants and population increase of cars on the road.
Even carparks at HDB is not enough these days.
Not enough roads were plan and built to cushion the floodgates of immigrants.
Public transport is even worse off. Jam like sardines everyday.
At MND, give reasons like 30 to 40 years housing loan means house is affordable. Who will work 30 years and expect same pay too ?
Why not 50 years loan and everybody can buy anything they want ?
How about kids and other expenses ?
Demand and supply of housing past 5 years is greatly distorted by government policies or else how did some housing increase by 100% ?
Some newer flats bought for 5 years ago at 2xx is worth 4xx today.
Give flak when it is due.
how come Proud Owner is lambasted instead of this person by a lady?
A person will do some forward thinking instead when facing problems.
1) jams everywhere, including public transport like bus. no carpark. only MRT not jammed, packed like sardines yes.
Solution: people will stay near where they work. So which part of Singapore has a lot of workforce. For example, CBD got many people working there or not? those people got place to stay in CBD or not?
2) property price increasing. last time, parents work 10 years to pay off, now you work 30 years to pay off, maybe your children work 50 years to pay off. So what do you do in meantime?
In all fairness, do you have a few good things to say about the present government?
Perhap you can follow the example of the young unemployed Tunisian who due to his act, inspired his people. Do you want to provide a wake up call to your fellow citizens? Afterall action speaks louder than words.
For me, I also not happy with current situation, the government should have opened the flood gates of immigration wider! But now is AGM time, so I can understand.
At transport, low EQ reasons like COE and ERP is to curb traffic jams is given when the obvious problems is increase in immigrants and population increase of cars on the road.
wenqing, I can see you are an enthusiastic young man full of energy and ideas.
(I notice you purposely started a few threads in the past inviting arguments ;))
Your passion for the nation and politics is commendable.
Although some of your ideas are, well to put it politely, not too well thought of.
You do need more experience and exposure on the ground. Not just Internet.
More over, you will start to learn: this world, in principle, is never fair.
In all fairness, do you have a few good things to say about the present government?
only some one who has been to , or at least some exposure to, the "era of revolution", will appreciate many things in life, and politics. ;)
only some one who has been to , or at least some exposure to, the "era of revolution", will appreciate many things in life, and politics. ;)
or exposed to the squalor of 3rd world countries :), no need to go Tunisia, neighbouring countries also have.
In all fairness, do you have a few good things to say about the present government?
Perhap you can follow the example of the young unemployed Tunisian who due to his act, inspired his people. Do you want to provide a wake up call to your fellow citizens? Afterall action speaks louder than words.
For me, I also not happy with current situation, the government should have opened the flood gates of immigration wider! But now is AGM time, so I can understand.
is there anything good to say about the present govt??
maybe u can talk about some policies in the Spore context? i stress 'Spore context' meaning please dont go compare with some third or fourth world nations :)
p.s. u are Indon rite?
devilplate
18-01-11, 11:43
is there anything good to say about the present govt??
maybe u can talk about some policies in the Spore context? i stress 'Spore context' meaning please dont go compare with some third or fourth world nations :)
p.s. u are Indon rite?
LKY is one of the most admired figure in the world wor....how can u say tat wor? hehe
LKY is one of the most admired figure in the world wor....how can u say tat wor? hehe
admiration can push OCR to 2k psf? can put food on your table? lol
like i said, Spore context plse
devilplate
18-01-11, 11:49
admiration can push OCR to 2k psf? can put food on your table? lol
like i said, Spore context plse
i not so interested in politics lah.....even office politics put me off.....wat can we do other den complaining here? either u try to be part of opp team or adjust and accept reality
latest round of cooling measures piss me off man...wat to do....adjust and move on....life is so short man:cheers6:
Can, already $1200 psf for new launch in OCR and closing up to $2k psf (OCR MMs already $14xx psf)! :D
admiration can push OCR to 2k psf? can put food on your table? lol
like i said, Spore context plse
devilplate
18-01-11, 11:51
Can, already $1200 psf for new launch in OCR and closing up to $2k psf (OCR MMs already $14xx psf)! :D
teddy: wat u tink of cairnhill area? which area in orchard best buy?
WKS mentioned in last nite news that they will have bring in more talented people into Singapore with the falling birth rate. Good for higher end property investors.
how come Proud Owner is lambasted instead of this person by a lady?
A person will do some forward thinking instead when facing problems.
1) jams everywhere, including public transport like bus. no carpark. only MRT not jammed, packed like sardines yes.
Solution: people will stay near where they work. So which part of Singapore has a lot of workforce. For example, CBD got many people working there or not? those people got place to stay in CBD or not?
2) property price increasing. last time, parents work 10 years to pay off, now you work 30 years to pay off, maybe your children work 50 years to pay off. So what do you do in meantime?
In all fairness, do you have a few good things to say about the present government?
Perhap you can follow the example of the young unemployed Tunisian who due to his act, inspired his people. Do you want to provide a wake up call to your fellow citizens? Afterall action speaks louder than words.
For me, I also not happy with current situation, the government should have opened the flood gates of immigration wider! But now is AGM time, so I can understand.
teddy: wat u tink of cairnhill area? which area in orchard best buy?
near Orchard and Dhoby Ghaut MRT stations :)
Suits Teddybear conditions,
CCR, near MRT 200m, FH :)
Regulators
18-01-11, 12:01
The works is never fair but we still need to strive for that fairness, right? we will be closer to achieving fairness if proper democratic processes are in place. A weak opposition or no opposition in our country is dangerous, so we need more opposition members in parliament
wenqing, I can see you are an enthusiastic young man full of energy and ideas.
(I notice you purposely started a few threads in the past inviting arguments ;))
Your passion for the nation and politics is commendable.
Although some of your ideas are, well to put it politely, not too well thought of.
You do need more experience and exposure on the ground. Not just Internet.
More over, you will start to learn: this world, in principle, is never fair.
......
maybe u can talk about some policies in the Spore context? i stress 'Spore context' meaning please dont go compare with some third or fourth world nations :)
This is turning into a philosophy debate :)
You are asking for the impossible when you say cannot compare with 3rd or 4th world nations. So you want to compare with 1st world? Let me turn around and ask you.
1) if complain about high cost of living. how do you know it is high or low if you dont compare with other countries. If other countries have higher cost of living, would you be happier?
2) if your child got 4A* in PSLE. Good. But If everybody student in Singapore got 4A*, then your child is just average.
Sorry I dont know how to put thoughts to paper.
admiration can push OCR to 2k psf? .....
Dont get your point. Are you angry with your government because your government failed to push OCR to 2k psf? :beats-me-man:
only some one who has been to , or at least some exposure to, the "era of revolution", will appreciate many things in life, and politics. ;)
or exposed to the squalor of 3rd world countries :), no need to go Tunisia, neighbouring countries also have.
Dont worry guys, I have studied and work Africa, Asean, China etc but also Japan, Australia, Europe etc. I know how to compare but not shallow way towards government.
Given your logic, must wait until Singapore is chaotic and become Third World than vote other for alternative parties. It is too late then.
Besides, under our government's CHEAPER, FASTER, BETTER programme, Singaporeans salaries are already Third World.
Given your comparision and logic, then voters in Europe, USA, Australia etc who enjoy higher standard of living then Singapporeans, higher purchasing power than Singaporeans despite high taxes should not have voted out their governments every 5-10 years then.
Every voter in other developed nations are daft for changing governments except Singaporean voters.
:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
so u have totally nothing good to say about the current government?
A simple yes or no will suffice. And if you have something good to say, give 2-3 examples enough.
Where is Patricia when you need her?
so u have totally nothing good to say about the current government?
A simple yes or no will suffice. And if you have something good to say, give 2-3 examples enough.
Where is Patricia when you need her?
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3071354
The works is never fair but we still need to strive for that fairness, right? we will be closer to achieving fairness if proper democratic processes are in place. A weak opposition or no opposition in our country is dangerous, so we need more opposition members in parliament
this is precisely what we have now
i not so interested in politics lah.....even office politics put me off.....wat can we do other den complaining here? either u try to be part of opp team or adjust and accept reality
latest round of cooling measures piss me off man...wat to do....adjust and move on....life is so short man:cheers6:
nonsense to say doing something means need to be part of the opp team
the ballot ticket u hold has the power to force them to adjust to your reality rather than u to theirs
HDB is now reviewing rule on PR siblings ownership
this wont happen if GE is not near, and the threat of votes going the other way, so not interested in politics is ultimately one's own loss
Dont worry guys, I have studied and work Africa, Asean, China etc but also Japan, Australia, Europe etc. I know how to compare but not shallow way towards government.
Given your logic, must wait until Singapore is chaotic and become Third World than vote other for alternative parties. It is too late then.
Besides, under our government's CHEAPER, FASTER, BETTER programme, Singaporeans salaries are already Third World.
Given your comparision and logic, then voters in Europe, USA, Australia etc who enjoy higher standard of living then Singapporeans, higher purchasing power than Singaporeans despite high taxes should not have voted out their governments every 5-10 years then.
Every voter in other developed nations are daft for changing governments except Singaporean voters.
:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
sporeean voter don change for the sake of changing. not like some ppl vote for the other party becos of some unhappy policy. but deep inside their heart they know that the other party will never win. is very simple logic, show the ppl yr capability and earn yr vote.
sporeean voter don change for the sake of changing. not like some ppl vote for the other party becos of some unhappy policy. but deep inside their heart they know that the other party will never win. is very simple logic, show the ppl yr capability and earn yr vote.
i guess the current pap regime has earned your vote :p
. is very simple logic, show the ppl yr capability and earn yr vote.
Tell that to PAP MPs who ask ZERO questions, literally sleep in Parliament or dont turn up often in Parliament for 5 years and got voted in via the GRC system instead of self-merit.
this is precisely what we have now
What he means is the opposition numbers in Parliament is too low(weak) to debate against PAP policies before being passed.
Right or wrong, PAP policies will still be passed and if wrong, do a U-turn but many people will be screwed.
i guess the current pap regime has earned your vote :p
i vote for the party tat can produce result, irregardless they are pap or wp:D :D
i vote for the party tat can produce result, irregardless they are pap or wp:D :D
It depends on your definition of results and if results are already not up to expectations, what is your vote ?
While WP has no track record of results so its neither good or bad, can give a try when results already is not good.
Especially for people like me whose condo that got flooded a few times in a few years. Last year was the worse.
What he means is the opposition numbers in Parliament is too low(weak) to debate against PAP policies before being passed.
Right or wrong, PAP policies will still be passed and if wrong, do a U-turn but many people will be screwed.
this is wat i am driving at. if opposition has capable people. would people not vote for them??
i vote for the party tat can produce result, irregardless they are pap or wp:D :D
wat other party can produce results (more bad than good) other than the pap since pap does not share power with others
lol
It depends on your definition of results.
of course we look at overall.....i do agree some policies did screw up but we look at big picture
this is wat i am driving at. if opposition has capable people. would people not vote for them??
proven capability or sheer incompetence?
we have a party now that consistently fails to deliver
heck it cannot even solve traffic woes and falling birth rate lol
dun just read the states times and read only the good stuff, surely u know that
this is wat i am driving at. if opposition has capable people. would people not vote for them??
How you know Opposition is capable unless you vote them in for a chance.
You go job interview, employer hire you also is give you a chance or else he will never know how good you are just base on interview.
How will people know Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Khiang are good MPs and between them at least MP for 40 years already unless people vote them in.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3072655
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3071629
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/594/cnngpssalary.png
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1587614
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3015743
we will be closer to achieving fairness if proper democratic processes are in place.
I'd love to have a nice discussion with you, but this is really not the place :) The TS is so passionate it seems to me he deliberately invites arguments in this place. I'd like to respond to you rather than the TS.
When one gets older or more exposed/experienced, one gets to know to look at things in perspective. For example, does "proper democratic process" beget "fairness" ? This in itself is not a truth, but rather, an opinion. ;) (for example, in Middle East a full democratic process will probably result in a extreme Islamic state. ) U know Karl Marx was very popular at his time. Many ppl wanted to save the world too. ;)
So I respect every one's opinion on this topic. But this place is really not for political discussions. I'll not help to prolong this thing any longer, so I think this is my last post in this thread. TS u r welcome to direct me to somewhere else where it's more suitable. (but not hardwarezone okay ;) ?)
I'd love to have a nice discussion with you, but this is really not the place :) The TS is so passionate it seems to me he deliberately invites arguments in this place. I'd like to respond to you rather than the TS.
When one gets older or more exposed/experienced, one gets to know to look at things in perspective. For example, does "proper democratic process" beget "fairness" ? This in itself is not a truth, but rather, an opinion. ;) (for example, in Middle East a full democratic process will probably result in a extreme Islamic state. ) U know Karl Marx was very popular at his time. Many ppl wanted to save the world too. ;)
So I respect every one's opinion on this topic. But this place is really not for political discussions. I'll not help to prolong this thing any longer, so I think this is my last post in this thread. TS u r welcome to direct me to somewhere else where it's more suitable. (but not hardwarezone okay ;) ?)
Dont think I invite arguments on purpose.
It was natural response from people here.
Besides, this thread was a discussion, deviate a little is fine.
The links are not for fun, but facts to counter some debate here.
Nothing to do with passion. Facts remain facts.
Most links link to mainstream media web space.
Singapore government is not Alice in Wonderland as painted by ST and CNA.
My personal opinion?
Cairnhill - not the best areas in Orchard. That area most condos are too cramp together for comfort and Traffic jam very bad over there to get in and out of most condos there during peak hours.
I think the best is those near Orchard ION, towards Paterson Hill. Those just outside the CBD ERP gate, easily accessible and not so cramp and there are roads which are not so jam even during peak hours to get in and out, and walking distance to Orchard ION, Taka, Wisma, and Orchard MRT.
The other best area is from Orchard ION towards Claymore.
My Feng Shui Master said Orchard MRT station sits near the Singapore's dragon heart. The heart die, Singapore die. :cheers1:
teddy: wat u tink of cairnhill area? which area in orchard best buy?
My Feng Shui Master said Orchard MRT station sits near the Singapore's dragon heart. The heart die, Singapore die. :cheers1:
Hi
How is your Feng Shui Master's reading for this year? property and equity markets?
thanks
Property market tends to attract a lot of policy interventions, but barring Govt over-doing it, should be good.
Equity markets - Bullish!
But then again, property market can leverage at low interest rates to earn more, equity market difficult (because interests much higher).
Hi
How is your Feng Shui Master's reading for this year? property and equity markets?
thanks
devilplate
19-01-11, 10:12
My personal opinion?
Cairnhill - not the best areas in Orchard. That area most condos are too cramp together for comfort and Traffic jam very bad over there to get in and out of most condos there during peak hours.
I think the best is those near Orchard ION, towards Paterson Hill. Those just outside the CBD ERP gate, easily accessible and not so cramp and there are roads which are not so jam even during peak hours to get in and out, and walking distance to Orchard ION, Taka, Wisma, and Orchard MRT.
The other best area is from Orchard ION towards Claymore.
My Feng Shui Master said Orchard MRT station sits near the Singapore's dragon heart. The heart die, Singapore die. :cheers1:
tks.
no wonder u shouting paterson suites 2kpsf...lol...oredi drop from 3k to 2.5kpsf...still wana wait for it to drop pants to 2kpsf? hehe
wat u tink of paterson residence? below 2kpsf will b vy nice:D
proud owner
19-01-11, 12:11
sporeean voter don change for the sake of changing. not like some ppl vote for the other party becos of some unhappy policy. but deep inside their heart they know that the other party will never win. is very simple logic, show the ppl yr capability and earn yr vote.
in Genesis ...how did they know PAP was good ?
they managed to 'sian' the uneducated to vote for them mah ..
no one can really say the oppositions are weak ..cos they have never been gvn the chance ...
they also want to upgrade the HDB in their ward ..but HDB never approve it
somemore use it as a tool ..IF U VOTE FOR PAP..YOUR HDB WILL BE UPGRADED
thats not fair already ..whatever happens to Justice and Equality
if a MP fks up ..can u unvote him ? cannot also ..
next election comes they will group him with 3 other good candidates and he willl get in still
govt should treat all singaporeans like their children
1 you will have some children who obey you 100 pct
2 you will have some children who disobey you sometimes ..
3 you will have some children who hate you ...
what do u do .. ?
give money , buy presents for 1 and 2 and kick out 3 ? chase them out of your house ? they will hate you even more
this is precisely how our govt is ... they dont treat their children equally ..
devilplate
19-01-11, 12:13
in Genesis ...how did they know PAP was good ?
they managed to 'sian' the uneducated to vote for them mah ..
no one can really say the oppositions are weak ..cos they have never been gvn the chance ...
they also want to upgrade the HDB in their ward ..but HDB never approve it
somemore use it as a tool ..IF U VOTE FOR PAP..YOUR HDB WILL BE UPGRADED
thats not fair already ..whatever happens to Justice and Equality
if a MP fks up ..can u unvote him ? cannot also ..
next election comes they will group him with 3 other good candidates and he willl get in still
govt should treat all singaporeans like their children
1 you will have some children who obey you 100 pct
2 you will have some children who disobey you sometimes ..
3 you will have some children who hate you ...
what do u do .. ?
give money , buy presents for 1 and 2 and kick out 3 ? chase them out of your house ? they will hate you even more
this is precisely how our govt is ... they dont treat their children equally ..
sian leh...migrate such comments to hardware zone can?
in Genesis ...how did they know PAP was good ?
they managed to 'sian' the uneducated to vote for them mah ..
no one can really say the oppositions are weak ..cos they have never been gvn the chance ...
they also want to upgrade the HDB in their ward ..but HDB never approve it
somemore use it as a tool ..IF U VOTE FOR PAP..YOUR HDB WILL BE UPGRADED
thats not fair already ..whatever happens to Justice and Equality
if a MP fks up ..can u unvote him ? cannot also ..
next election comes they will group him with 3 other good candidates and he willl get in still
govt should treat all singaporeans like their children
1 you will have some children who obey you 100 pct
2 you will have some children who disobey you sometimes ..
3 you will have some children who hate you ...
what do u do .. ?
give money , buy presents for 1 and 2 and kick out 3 ? chase them out of your house ? they will hate you even more
this is precisely how our govt is ... they dont treat their children equally ..
is tat why u leave spore?:D
Wow. Suddenly condosingapore become "political" liao :) The relevance to property market is HDB should really cater for citizens only. PRs and foreigners should just compete in the private property space. Very few countries provide public subsidised housing for PRs - there is no need to do so. The rule that allow siblings PR (they will meet the "parents overseas criteria) below 35 to buy HDB flat is ridiculous and should be abolished - which government has such pro-foreigner policy? HDB flats for citizens only - when that happens, HDB prices will correct and then maybe the younger generation will be happier?
Wild Falcon, I don't quite like this rule too. By allowing siblings of PR status whose parents are overseas to purchase HDB housing (is it for resale or new flats direct from HDB?), it has caused quite a number of locally born Singaporeans inconvenience. I totally agree with not giving the same privilege to PR. Remember reports about PRs snapping up HDBs? Although they are a minority, I must say not all PRs are rich enough to purchase private housing. Hence, to assimilate most of these foreign workers and students to continue to stay in Singapore, procreate and make a living, I believe is the reason why HDB allowed such rules.
I am not sure what is the take in this in the coming GE but i'll be interested to find out should it be discussed.
Perhaps setting a quota for PRs to purchase HDB flats is the way to go.
Given that most PRs are here to work and contribute to the economy, I'm not in favour of restricting PR siblings from buying HDB. However HDB should relax the conditions for single Singapore citizens to buy HDB, as our singles demographic and low fertility rate become more pronounced. The rise of MM condos is already showing this is what the society needs and HDB has yet to show its flexibility to meet our society needs.
Given that most PRs are here to work and contribute to the economy, I'm not in favour of restricting PR siblings from buying HDB. However HDB should relax the conditions for single Singapore citizens to buy HDB, as our singles demographic and low fertility rate become more pronounced. The rise of MM condos is already showing this is what the society needs and HDB has yet to show its flexibility to meet our society needs.
Their policy has always been pro family. They won't built HDB MMs.
Given that most PRs are here to work and contribute to the economy, I'm not in favour of restricting PR siblings from buying HDB. However HDB should relax the conditions for single Singapore citizens to buy HDB, as our singles demographic and low fertility rate become more pronounced. The rise of MM condos is already showing this is what the society needs and HDB has yet to show its flexibility to meet our society needs.
By putting more restrictions on PRs, we're encouraging them to become citizens (at least the good ones). There are a lot of PRs out there that are still holding onto their foreign citizenship because there isn't enough push factors to get them to become citizens. In a way, they are getting the best of both worlds, residency here (with some benefits) and the backup plan of going home...
Don't think we want a transient population, we need good people to sink their roots here, just like our ancestors....:cheers1:
Was reading Hard Truth to keep Singapore going. It's a damn good book. To those pple whom dont appreciate what we got , I feel sorry for u. But then again, it's because pple always take things for granted. Just look ard our region. I m grateful I m born here, things will be so different if I m born 35km away. singapore huat ah!! CCR huat ah, RCR huat ah!! OCR chong ah
We may end up with more of this situation: one remain as PR (e.g. wife) and the other convert to citizen (e.g. husband) to overcome the restriction.
Now there are many PRs owning HDBs, if this citizen-only rule for HDB is enacted, HDB prices will fall and condo prices will surge in the long run. You end up hurting the average man in the street and benefit the rich who own private condos.
Was reading Hard Truth to keep Singapore going. It's a damn good book. To those pple whom dont appreciate what we got , I feel sorry for u. But then again, it's because pple always take things for granted. Just look ard our region. I m grateful I m born here, things will be so different if I m born 35km away. singapore huat ah!! CCR huat ah, RCR huat ah!! OCR chong ah
Haha yes I have to agree we are fortunate.
By putting more restrictions on PRs, we're encouraging them to become citizens (at least the good ones). There are a lot of PRs out there that are still holding onto their foreign citizenship because there isn't enough push factors to get them to become citizens. In a way, they are getting the best of both worlds, residency here (with some benefits) and the backup plan of going home...
Don't think we want a transient population, we need good people to sink their roots here, just like our ancestors....:cheers1:
I don't know how they define good ones but I hope it's not those i have seen so far in public areas. But I agree that it will take at least one generation to assimilate.
Was reading Hard Truth to keep Singapore going. It's a damn good book. To those pple whom dont appreciate what we got , I feel sorry for u. But then again, it's because pple always take things for granted. Just look ard our region. I m grateful I m born here, things will be so different if I m born 35km away. singapore huat ah!! CCR huat ah, RCR huat ah!! OCR chong ah
i feel sorry for u
Was reading Hard Truth to keep Singapore going. It's a damn good book. To those pple whom dont appreciate what we got , I feel sorry for u. But then again, it's because pple always take things for granted. Just look ard our region. I m grateful I m born here, things will be so different if I m born 35km away. singapore huat ah!! CCR huat ah, RCR huat ah!! OCR chong ah
It could be the last precious gift from LKY to LHL and PAP.
i feel sorry for u
Thanks a lot. No need lah I very happy :cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
It could be the last precious gift from LKY to LHL and PAP.
No matter what one feel abt PAP there's no denying what the man gave for his country. Many talk only.
The new citizens will be allowed to vote this year. So you can be sure that there will not be any harsh policies, particularly housing, for them.
New migrants in S’pore: A rising force
By Angela Lim – January 17th, 2011
http://yfittopostblogsg.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/400yahoo_migrants.jpg?w=400
New citizens may leave their mark on local politics, says our writer. (Yahoo! file photo)
By Seah Chiang Nee
In the next few months, Singapore will likely witness the largest number of new citizens voting for the first time in a general election.
This is only an early step of a long-term immigration policy to offer up to 20,000 citizenships to foreigners every year to avoid population decline.
Between 2006 and last year, the government registered 91,900 new citizens, a record for a five-year period in contemporary Singapore. Until then, the comparative rate was about a third.
This continuing flow of new migrants to settle down here may soon leave its mark on politics.
“This is not surprising. Every aspect of life has more or less been affected by the changed demography, how can politics be excluded?” an undergrad commented.
The majority of these 91,900 – estimated at 75% or 68,000 – are adults and eligible to vote or contest in an election.
The figure appears unimpressive when compared with Singapore’s 2.16 million registered voters (of whom only 1.15 million actually voted in 2006).
However, it formed a surprisingly large portion – 45% – of the increase in voters (151,680) between the last election and currently.
***
At a glance..
Number of citizenships given (2006-2010)
2006 – 13,861
2007 – 17.334
2008 – 20,513
2009 – 19,928
2010 – 19,300 (estimated)
Total for 5 years 90,936 (per year: 18,187)
Future 5-year target: 100,000
***
The implication for the future is clear. Over time, parity will be reached when first-time voters between old and new Singaporeans are counted.
If this number had taken part in the last election, it would have added 5.9% to the total votes cast.
As the demographic evolution continues, these new citizens could one day become a formidable force capable of changing governments and dictating policies in the republic.
Out of this huge demographic shift will eventually emerge political changes. Short-term, who will gain more, the PAP or opposition? Most analysts believe there is only one answer – the ruling PAP.
A political observer explained: “For many, it’s out of gratitude for the opportunity. They see the PAP as able and willing to protect their interests.”
Others say that some are worried that the opposition, if it gains power, may one day close the doors on them if pressured by the public.
One critic who opposes large-scale immigration conceded that it would be hard for any opposition party to campaign too strongly in favour of immigrants, without upsetting Singaporeans.
“Many will vote for the PAP. Luckily, the number of naturalised citizens is still too low to make a big impact,” he said.
The government has been accused of having an ulterior motive in speeding up the granting of citizenships: to gain more votes and stay in power.
It has ordered an updating of the electoral rolls for the third time in a year to include more new citizens to vote in the coming election, said pro-opposition website Temasek Review (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=temasek+review&fr=fp-today&cs=bz).
“As immigrants usually vote for the ruling party, their votes will make a crucial difference in closely fought contests.” it added.
Apart from feeling beholden, new citizens are quite happy with the way Singapore is run. That is a main reason for their being here.
This sanguine feeling and goodwill, however, is unlikely to remain unchanged for long.
Over the longer term, as their numbers increase and they live here longer, their attitudes will almost certainly change to move closer to that of society at large.
The new residents who are settling here have come from many countries, with a contrasting mix of language, religion, politics and social background.
Unless the government of the day is skilful in balancing demands and forging bonds, politics in Singapore could become unpredictable and chaotic.
The PAP appears to realise this. It has allocated S$10mil for community events to bring new and old Singaporeans together hoping for a faster process of integration.
It is a tough call, though.
In politics, the division between local Singaporeans is already growing. With new citizens becoming increasingly involved in politics, the threat of fractions will grow.
Already some heat has been generated, with some permanent residents actively involved in verbal battles, and trading online insults, with locals.
As more Singaporeans shun PAP-organised community activities in housing estates, foreign PRs are stepping in.
An official admitted that 20% of leaders of grassroots organisation scattered throughout the island – Citizens Consultative Committees (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=citizens+consultative+comittees&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) and Residents Committees (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=residents+committees&fr=fp-today&cs=bz)– are PRs.
The organisations are regarded as an important part of the PAP’s political machinery, and many aspiring politicians who want to be noticed join them.
In recent months, they have been actively recruiting new citizens and PRs living in the HDB heartlands.
Any insensitive use of foreign PRs to campaign for the government could create friction among Singaporeans who resent their presence here.
One irate resident warned: “If any campaigner who speaks with a strong Chinese or Indian accent comes knocking, I will slam the door on him.”
A former Reuters correspondent and newpaper editor, the writer is now a freelance columnist writing on general trends in Singapore. This post first appeared on his blog, www.littlespeck.com (http://www.littlespeck.com/) on 15 Jan, 2011.
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