View Full Version : en bloc is bad for you
stalingrad
06-02-11, 09:28
Did you guys see the spread in today's ST about how former residents of gillman heights have fared since the en bloc sale?
(1) many ended up living in HDB, or rather downgraded to HDB.
(2) many are still bitter, angry with the sale.
(3) old folks have lost contact with their friends, feeling lonely.
(4) No one felt it was a good decision to sell
(5) most want nothing more than go back in time to oppose the sale.
a sobering but true story about folks that let money make decisions for them.
I personally feel that en bloc sales are a terrible waste of resources, leading to the dismantling of perfectly good buildings. it makes a mockery of international drive to conserve our planet.
there's one fella staying at carrotbell, is that u? :p
they should next do a piece & interview ex-owners of farrer court and leedon heights, see whether these are bitter or angry~ lol
stalingrad
06-02-11, 09:42
I wish it was me. No. but I know him personally.
I wish I lived in a PH. But I don't.
stalingrad
06-02-11, 09:47
they should next do a piece & interview ex-owners of farrer court and leedon heights, see whether these are bitter or angry~ lol
yes, these owners had a relatively good deal. but I bet many couldn't stay in the same area or could but had to move into a smaller unit.
If you look at the economics of en block sales, it is more likely than not to be a bad deal for former residents.
given the fact that the report is in ST and the tone is generally negative, I guess you can deduce that the government is now against en bloc sales. I take it as good news.
yes, these owners had a relatively good deal. but I bet many couldn't stay in the same area or could but had to move into a smaller unit.
If you look at the economics of en block sales, it is more likely than not to be a bad deal for former residents.
given the fact that the report is in ST and the tone is generally negative, I guess you can deduce that the government is now against en bloc sales. I take it as good news.
i read it as ST indirectly promoting Interlace for the developer, notice how many times the ex-owners mention about gilman's good location.
stalingrad
06-02-11, 10:08
i read it as ST indirectly promoting Interlace for the developer, notice how many times the ex-owners mention about gilman's good location.
I am not so sure. the articles portrayed capitaland in very bad light in highlighting the shouting match between the former residents of gillman heights and liew mun leong's people. the dispute was reported before and now the new articles just reinforced the impression that capitaland has no soul and puts profit before everything else. given the articles, I guess capitaland will have troubles getting en bloc sellers to sell to them.
Allthepies
06-02-11, 11:13
I guess capitaland will have troubles getting en bloc sellers to sell to them.
if price is right, they will bite :D
kingkong1984
06-02-11, 11:27
if price is right, they will bite :D
There's always a price for everything.
There's always some who would not sell for any price.
Enblocks are developers tool to make money.
Pro enblocks are fools when they dun make enough money.
Which enblock are not profit motivated? Can share?
Personally I feel that owners of Farrer enbloc got a good deal. I know of 1 relative who get payout. But generally, for Gilman for those owners who like the place but didn't want enbloc, din plan what to do immediately wit the payout, got caught in the rising property prices and end up $hort changed , generally negative. Seem like pple interviewed in article are just airing their displeasure and complaints, many others ( like those Farrer ) should be happy. But tis article seem to have an agenda becos those interviewed are negative, seem that Gov sending message across...
stalingrad
06-02-11, 11:40
There's always a price for everything.
There's always some who would not sell for any price.
Enblocks are developers tool to make money.
Pro enblocks are fools when they dun make enough money.
Which enblock are not profit motivated? Can share?
of course all en bloc sales are motivated by profit. make no mistake about it. I am not sympathetic to the owners of gillman heights. they sold because of the money. but at the end, the profit was not high enough for them to acquire a good life after the sale. they were actually worse off, not better off.
kingkong1984
06-02-11, 11:48
Personally I feel that owners of Farrer enbloc got a good deal. I know of 1 relative who get payout. But generally, for Gilman for those owners who like the place but didn't want enbloc, din plan what to do immediately wit the payout, got caught in the rising property prices and end up $hort changed , generally negative. Seem like pple interviewed in article are just airing their displeasure and complaints, many others ( like those Farrer ) should be happy. But tis article seem to have an agenda becos those interviewed are negative, seem that Gov sending message across...
A good deal is when you are certain of getting the money at a price higher than market. When it is delayed, or when market moved, you are worst off.
Those who commit to another property too early can be screwed too.
of course all en bloc sales are motivated by profit. make no mistake about it. I am not sympathetic to the owners of gillman heights. they sold because of the money. but at the end, the profit was not high enough for them to acquire a good life after the sale. they were actually worse off, not better off. Article say Gilman owners expecting $1mil for their unit, but their committee only got them $800k+. But most Farrer Court owners got $2mil and above..,lots of different. At that time, less than $1mil nt really big gain but with $2mil, can get a decent replace condo unit with some spare ca$h in the bank.
Issue with Gillman was that the price was locked in, drawn out over a looooong time, before the payout. If the transaction has gone smoothly and the sellers bought something as soon as the payout, they could not have been caught in the wrong end of the upturn.:(
Moral of the story? Challenge the enbloc sale at your own risk.... :scared-3: May or may not win, but time is lost and time is money + make enemies with everyone.
Not that I'm advocating en-bloc sales.....
Gilman got a terribly bad price. The sales committee ang mo chairman still got the cheek to say it's a gd deal. :cool: for farrer court, i knew of at least 2 friends pocketing the 2mil and settle down comfortably in east coast landed houses. It's all abt the price.
Nothing wrong with capl. Willing seller willing buyer. In fact it has nothing to do with capl. The middleman brokered the deal.
In a way u should thank capl buying the plot much early before the huge jump. Thanks to the low enbloc price,they can sell interlace relatively cheap even with a brand-name designer and difficulty in the construction ( dun even for a minute assume construction costs are all the same)
Stalingrad i know u were impressed by this project ;) yes it will be a good buy ;)
Gilman got a terribly bad price. The sales committee ang mo chairman still got the cheek to say it's a gd deal. :cool: for farrer court, i knew of at least 2 friends pocketing the 2mil and settle down comfortably in east coast landed houses. It's all abt the price.
Nothing wrong with capl. Willing seller willing buyer. In fact it has nothing to do with capl. The middleman brokered the deal.
In a way u should thank capl buying the plot much early before the huge jump. Thanks to the low enbloc price,they can sell interlace relatively cheap even with a brand-name designer and difficulty in the construction ( dun even for a minute assume construction costs are all the same)
Stalingrad i know u were impressed by this project ;) yes it will be a good buy ;)
Any idea if Sales Committee are incentify for their work/negotiation? Wonder if they are residents or 3rd Party/middleman. As for Interlace, I remember it is some renowned Ang Mo architect, quite a loud design and not easy to construct.
of course all en bloc sales are motivated by profit. make no mistake about it. I am not sympathetic to the owners of gillman heights. they sold because of the money. but at the end, the profit was not high enough for them to acquire a good life after the sale. they were actually worse off, not better off.
actually part of the blame goes to STB & the unclear enbloc process at that time
once it went to court which dragged for another 2 yrs the mkt dunno shoot until where liao... so the owners got screwed. contrast with Horizon Towers where the dissenters won those other owners who are pro-enbloc also got screwed.
imo still not enough is done to protect home owners bcos whether enbloc goes thru or not the developers do not lose, only the home owners are left bearing watever consequences. :cool:
stalingrad
06-02-11, 15:49
I think the en bloc sales were to blame for the narrowing gap between CCR and OCR prices. owners of CCR properties lost to en bloc sales did not get enough to pay for similar properties and had to settle for OCR properties at the end. the derivative demand for OCR properties pushed up prices for OCR properties. just look at the day's ST articles. Most of the owners moved out of CCR and into OCR.
but of course, the fact that OCR as a whole has become more pleasant a place to live in is probably a more powerful driver for the narrowing gap.
kingkong1984
06-02-11, 15:54
Enblock families, families buy OCR, developer relaunch as MM,s for singles or dinks.
Based on what I gathered, I perhaps sum up what went wrong with the GH enbloc
1. Not sure whether there was a valuation done before the sealing of the enbloc deal
2. the minority case against the enbloc, which in anyone with the common sense, would know it is a definite losing case, has taken tooooooo loooong to settle, the market was running then.
Personally I find the writer shall project a balanced view on the enbloc, from Farrer Court, GH, Bedok HUDC, Lor Ah Soo HUDC (this is took even much longer time, years),
kingkong1984
06-02-11, 16:00
Yup, some enblocks are indeed goodies. For a balanced view, must share both the winners and losers. One sided story there?
Regulators
06-02-11, 16:07
The developer managed to secure the deal just before the run up in prices, they did it in perfect timing.
Based on what I gathered, I perhaps sum up what went wrong with the GH enbloc
1. Not sure whether there was a valuation done before the sealing of the enbloc deal
2. the minority case against the enbloc, which in anyone with the common sense, would know it is a definite losing case, has taken tooooooo loooong to settle, the market was running then.
Personally I find the writer shall project a balanced view on the enbloc, from Farrer Court, GH, Bedok HUDC, Lor Ah Soo HUDC (this is took even much longer time, years),
stalingrad
06-02-11, 16:10
The developer managed to secure the deal just before the run up in prices, they did it in perfect timing.
but is the developer laughing all the way to the bank? capitaland seems to have trouble selling the interlace.
Yup, some enblocks are indeed goodies. For a balanced view, must share both the winners and losers. One sided story there?
horizon tower enbloc failed, the minority owners won ...
Regulators
06-02-11, 16:27
Project is too big and units scattered here there and everywhere, how to fully sell out? To the developer it is iconic, to home buyers, it lacks orderliness.
but is the developer laughing all the way to the bank? capitaland seems to have trouble selling the interlace.
stalingrad
06-02-11, 18:17
enbloc sales are the means by which urban renewal is achieved. but has singapore been carried away? condos barely 15 or 20 years old have been torn down to make way for newer and fancier condos with better facilities. while we are rich nation and we can afford this waste of resources, but shouldn't we feel a sense of responsibility toward our green planet?
to live responsibly, I suggest en bloc sales be allowed only for condos at least 40 years old.
I actually like older condos, which are mostly built with concrete and bricks, unlike the new ones, which are mostly built with glass, and terribly hot.
Issue with Gillman was that the price was locked in, drawn out over a looooong time, before the payout. If the transaction has gone smoothly and the sellers bought something as soon as the payout, they could not have been caught in the wrong end of the upturn.:(
Moral of the story? Challenge the enbloc sale at your own risk.... :scared-3: May or may not win, but time is lost and time is money + make enemies with everyone.
Not that I'm advocating en-bloc sales.....
Totally agree..... When you are offered a price for en bloc, at the particular moment it will Always be a good price.... So either you quickly commit to another unit unit in the same locale and pocket the different or you take a bet that price will go down..... Gill man residents got hit with double whammy.... They got caught in a fast rising market and the court case drag on for two years before they got their payout so big problem for them...... The papers did say that if the prices were to drop then they are lucky.... By the way, these residents have a chance to buy during the last financial crisis in 2008/2009, if they bought then, they would be ok.....
I felt its unfair for the owners now to paint themselves as victims.... They signed with their eyes wide open and too bad they did not place the right bet with the money so really cannot blame the process, I am all for en bloc as it is willing buyer willing sellers plus now there are so many safeguards, measures.... So that this will not happen again..... For one, agent are supposed to do a valuation report when the tender closes so there will not be an issue of price not catching up with the market
but is the developer laughing all the way to the bank? capitaland seems to have trouble selling the interlace.
The last time I visited the Interlace showflat about 6 months back, the agent said all the 1 and 2 bedders were sold. I have serious doubt about this as I think the site layout is a flop and seriously shows the architect's lack of understanding of locals' preference for NS facing or facing water-bodies or greenery. Anyone with better data can enlighten me, thanks.
As of Dec 10, 604 sold. I think for a 1000 unit project, it's doing quite ok.
And I'm sure not all units are launched. For example the last "container" on the top is not. And all the townhouses are not either.
As of Dec 10, 604 sold. I think for a 1000 unit project, it's doing quite ok.
And I'm sure not all units are launched. For example the last "container" on the top is not. And all the townhouses are not either.
I suspect that the high sales could be due to many units bought by several funds like what happened to Cascadia. Anyway I'm just suspicious :p
kingkong1984
06-02-11, 20:06
Now... You have listed company using other peoples money to enblock and develop. Then you have fund houses using other peoples money to buy. Then you have shareholders to account to. It's a cycle. You have to be a shareholder in order not to lose out.
I suspect that the high sales could be due to many units bought by several funds like what happened to Cascadia. Anyway I'm just suspicious :p
Mind to share what happened to Cascadia?
A significant number of units were bought by 2 foreign funds.
http://www.buysellrentcondo.com/cascadia-at-bukit-timah-road/
stalingrad
07-02-11, 09:20
A significant number of units were bought by 2 foreign funds.
http://www.buysellrentcondo.com/cascadia-at-bukit-timah-road/
cascadia is definitely for losers. no amenities nearby, and prone to flooding. whichever funds bought those units have too much money to burn.
I agree cascade is a lousy project... I find it strange that for the same plot ratio, some development can be very spaciously spread out while others are so cramp and face each other.... Fo cascade, it see, like some u it's can literally see into eachother unit and talke to your neighbor via the balcony lol
I agree cascade is a lousy project... I find it strange that for the same plot ratio, some development can be very spaciously spread out while others are so cramp and face each other.... Fo cascade, it see, like some u it's can literally see into eachother unit and talke to your neighbor via the balcony lol
Hmm.. have checked on prices and noticed average psf for Cascadia is sliding down from 1450psf to 1396psf since jun 2010. Am surprise to see that as national's psf price movement is up and see Cascadia going down is amazing.:2cents:
cascadia is definitely for losers. no amenities nearby, and prone to flooding. whichever funds bought those units have too much money to burn.
Aiyah... don't say Cascadia is for LOSERS....:tsk-tsk: You might start another angry round of name calling....:(
People are sensitive these days.... Be nice.... it's still in the New Year period....:D
they should next do a piece & interview ex-owners of farrer court and leedon heights, see whether these are bitter or angry~ lol
my cousin from farrer block got enbloc....he is below 50 and has retired and living happily...:cool:
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