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mr funny
07-02-11, 22:16
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_632257.html

Feb 7, 2011

Residents sue listed developer City Developments Limited

By Selina Lum

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20110207/condo-st.jpg
The residents of the Emery Point condominium have sued listed developer City Developments Limited. -- ST PHOTO: ALPHONSUS CHERN

THE residents of the Emery Point condominium have sued listed developer City Developments Limited, the main contractor, five sub-contractors and the architect over numerous building defects.

The condo's management corporation, representing the owners, is claiming about $600,000 in compensation to rectify defects in 17 areas.

The defects include a leaking basement carpark which is located below a swimming pool, cracks in walls, and lift lobbies with ceilings damaged by rainwater.

The case opened in the High Court on Monday and is fixed for a 10-day hearing.

Emery Point, an 18-storey block of 51 units at Ipoh Lane in the Tanjong Katong area, is a freehold development that was completed in 2003 but not fully sold until 2007.

In his opening statement, lawyer Leo Cheng Suan, representing the condo owners, said that CDL was fully aware of the defects. Mr Leo said: 'The plaintiffs are extremely disappointed that CDL, being a public listed company, did not live up to its social responsibility to build quality homes'.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Singapore/Story/STIStory_632334.html

Feb 8, 2011

Emery Point defects: CDL and others sued

Condo residents seek $600k compensation for problems in 17 areas

By Selina Lum


THE residents of Emery Point condominium have sued listed developer City Developments Limited (CDL), the main contractor, five subcontractors and the architect over numerous building defects.

The condo's management corporation, representing the owners, is claiming about $600,000 in compensation to rectify defects in 17 areas.

These include a leaking basement carpark, which is located below a swimming pool, cracks in walls, and lift lobbies with ceilings damaged by rainwater.

The case opened in the High Court yesterday, and is fixed for a 10-day hearing.

Emery Point, an 18-storey block of 51 units at Ipoh Lane in the Tanjong Katong area, is a freehold development completed in 2003, but not fully sold until 2007.

In his opening statement, lawyer Leo Cheng Suan, representing the condo owners, said that CDL was fully aware of the defects. 'The plaintiffs are extremely disappointed that CDL, being a public-listed company, did not live up to its social responsibility to build quality homes.'

He said many of the defects were caused by the long period in which the unsold units were closed up, and exposed to high heat and humidity.

Some defects were discovered in September 2003, when the Building and Construction Authority issued a certificate of statutory completion (CSC) for the development. Others were discovered after the management corporation assumed responsibility for the condo's common property from CDL in July 2005.

Around July 2007, the owners hired building surveyors to conduct an audit, which found extensive defects and shortcomings in 17 areas.

Highlighting the key defects, Mr Leo said the most glaring one was in the basement carpark, which had been 'leaking since the very beginning'.

Despite numerous repairs, the carpark, located below the swimming pool, is an 'unwanted water feature', said Mr Leo.

He also noted that a building surveyor hired by CDL and main contractor Hytech Builders had conceded that there were a 'staggering' 280 points of water leakage in the carpark.

The low fencing of the children's playground also poses a 'death trap' for children if they were to climb over it and fall right into the basement carpark, said Mr Leo.

Other defects include leaky windows and cracks in the tennis court surface.

Mr Leo said the defendants were prepared to do only cosmetic patch repairs at the lowest possible cost, such as 'applying silicone to try to stop the leaks for a few months'. The lawyer described these as 'delay tactics' to 'wear out' the owners until the warranties expire.

CDL, represented by Mr Ling Tien Wah, conceded that there were defects due to the contractors' 'poor workmanship', but contended that 'there is no such thing as a perfect building'.

The developer argued that it was liable only for defects for the two units sold before the CSC date. As for the rest of the owners, who had bought their units after that, CDL was not liable for any defects found in these units.

The key defence raised by the other defendants was that the problems were not defects, but were caused by wear and tear.

[email protected]

august
07-02-11, 23:08
seems like FEO getting better, CDL getting worse ~

noblebaby
07-02-11, 23:26
Mr Kwek old man liao.

acidic.straw
08-02-11, 05:59
If the outcome is in favour of the residents, I'm sure there will be more of such cases coming up in the future.

DN
08-02-11, 06:34
For a long while, I was under the impression CDL is a good developer.
It appears they now run in the ranks of FEO ??



If the outcome is in favour of the residents, I'm sure there will be more of such cases coming up in the future.

mantrix
08-02-11, 08:36
They will have a hard time selling their units now...

Wild Falcon
08-02-11, 09:25
I my opinion, FEO is better than CDL in terms of workmanship and quality. Try viewing some older 10 year old projects, then you will realise the FEO quality way exceeds that of CDL. Even recent new launches and newly TOP projects, FEO quality appears better.


For a long while, I was under the impression CDL is a good developer.
It appears they now run in the ranks of FEO ??

thomastansb
08-02-11, 09:40
Fully agree. No need 10 years. 1 year already chui. Maybe also due to the maintenance agent they appoint. I know they like to appoint ECC and IMO, they are :doh::doh: Seems to be a subsidiary of CDL?

Good luck to one shenton owners if they get ECC.





I my opinion, FEO is better than CDL in terms of workmanship and quality. Try viewing some older 10 year old projects, then you will realise the FEO quality way exceeds that of CDL. Even recent new launches and newly TOP projects, FEO quality appears better.

Regulators
08-02-11, 09:52
Emery only has 51 households, I wonder what happens if the minority are dissatisfied with the workmanship in a big condo that has fallen to disrepair?

2824
08-02-11, 09:58
btw who is the main contractor for this one??:confused:

august
08-02-11, 10:04
For a long while, I was under the impression CDL is a good developer.
It appears they now run in the ranks of FEO ??

in recent yrs seems like CDL has declined, while FEO which everyone tells me was horrible appears to have improved

devilplate
08-02-11, 10:07
in recent yrs seems like CDL has declined, while FEO which everyone tells me was horrible appears to have improved

Not every1....bcoz i always been saying FEO is good....except their pricing...LOL :X

peterng8
08-02-11, 10:11
Not every1....bcoz i always been saying FEO is good....except their pricing...LOL :X


good quality comes at a price mah....:D

bargain hunter
08-02-11, 10:24
i was not impressed with both CDL's and FEO's finishing for their projects 10 years ago. FEO has improved recently but their prices has also become exhorbitant. as recent as watermark, i still saw poor finishing by CDL.

devilplate
08-02-11, 10:31
i was not impressed with both CDL's and FEO's finishing for their projects 10 years ago. FEO has improved recently but their prices has also become exhorbitant. as recent as watermark, i still saw poor finishing by CDL.

so far i hf no major problems with FEO ppty....others....sian 1/2....tenant called me say windows sip in water recently(past few wks heavy downpour):doh: :doh: :doh: ....dun ask me which project:banghead:

Wild Falcon
08-02-11, 10:41
Water seeping in will be a serious problem with those condos with "greenhouse design" i.e. all glass... because developers only use SILICON to stick the glass together and silicon will wear out very soon. So won't be surprised the new greenhouse all-glass condos are getting problems within a year or so.



so far i hf no major problems with FEO ppty....others....sian 1/2....tenant called me say windows sip in water recently(past few wks heavy downpour):doh: :doh: :doh: ....dun ask me which project:banghead:

land118
08-02-11, 10:48
btw who is the main contractor for this one??:confused:

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110208-0000206/Condo-owners-sue-developer,-7-other-parties-over-alleged-defects

The management corporation's role will also be highlighted by main contractor Hytech Builders and two sub-contractors, Heng Boon Seng Construction and Industrial Contracts Marketing, who claim that it failed to maintain the property and that any problems were caused by wear and tear.

amk
08-02-11, 10:55
I love what the CDL lawyer said: " there is no such thing as a perfect building" :cool:

I really hope this time small flies can win !

land118
08-02-11, 11:06
I love what the CDL lawyer said: " there is no such thing as a perfect building" :cool:

I really hope this time small flies can win !

Actually, CDL should just repair the defects and settle this. Not good image for renowned CDL with this news floating around. As Developer, am sure if CDL repair, they will bill this to the main contractor and sub-con. If kena sue and lose, am sure CDL will countersue the main-con and sub-con.

From the report, it appears that residents really have a good case this time.

vip
08-02-11, 15:46
Ten years back, FEO used to be notorious in terms of the quality of their projects. They slowly cleaned up their acts and built high-end developments to improve the company's image.

There are always risks there when you are buying uncompleted projects. The showflats look nice. So do the drawings in the brochures. But remember they are "artists' impressions only" and showflats are "for display only". You are buying based on "trust" of what the developers and agents said.

Once TOP, you step into the unit and find bad workmanship, different finishing, less space, extra pillar, etc. You can only cross your fingers that the developer will get the defects fixed so you don't have to dig into your own pocket.

Your bargaining power is low because you are only one out of hundreds of owners. You know very well that the developer can easily push the responsibility to someone else and remain hands off. You are wasting time and money hiring a lawyer.

That's very unfair, considering the fact that you've chipped in to help finance the developer's building costs with your deposits and progressive payments few years back.

That's why I only buy completed or 2nd hand projects. What you see is what you get ...

amk
08-02-11, 15:57
That's why I only buy completed or 2nd hand projects. What you see is what you get ...
CDL is using this argument to deny all obligations for those bought after CSC :cool:

Look, let's be honest. It's never fair. There is no way a buyer can assess the full conditions of a project.

For example, water leaking through the walls/roofs/windows. Say only happen after 5yrs. developer can even claim it's "wear and tear" !

Consumer protection is one area SG still has a long way to go

thomastansb
08-02-11, 16:24
Not really. You have the last 15% unpaid (for 6 mths to 1 yr) for a reason. Regardless whether you are first owner or subsale. You can even repair and claim back if the developers are unresponsive. Not sure how it works. Maybe someone can share?






Ten years back, FEO used to be notorious in terms of the quality of their projects. They slowly cleaned up their acts and built high-end developments to improve the company's image.

There are always risks there when you are buying uncompleted projects. The showflats look nice. So do the drawings in the brochures. But remember they are "artists' impressions only" and showflats are "for display only". You are buying based on "trust" of what the developers and agents said.

Once TOP, you step into the unit and find bad workmanship, different finishing, less space, extra pillar, etc. You can only cross your fingers that the developer will get the defects fixed so you don't have to dig into your own pocket.

Your bargaining power is low because you are only one out of hundreds of owners. You know very well that the developer can easily push the responsibility to someone else and remain hands off. You are wasting time and money hiring a lawyer.

That's very unfair, considering the fact that you've chipped in to help finance the developer's building costs with your deposits and progressive payments few years back.

That's why I only buy completed or 2nd hand projects. What you see is what you get ...

stalingrad
08-02-11, 16:27
CDL is using this argument to deny all obligations for those bought after CSC :cool:

Look, let's be honest. It's never fair. There is no way a buyer can assess the full conditions of a project.

For example, water leaking through the walls/roofs/windows. Say only happen after 5yrs. developer can even claim it's "wear and tear" !

Consumer protection is one area SG still has a long way to go
fully agree with with you. but I prefer strong words. SG offers very very little protection to consumers. just look at the minibond saga. even BT ran an article arguing that it is basically a fraud. but still the victims got nothing.

thomastansb
08-02-11, 16:31
I heard from my banker friends it is totally different in HK. Banks have to vomit out the money.





fully agree with with you. but I prefer strong words. SG offers very very little protection to consumers. just look at the minibond saga. even BT ran an article arguing that it is basically a fraud. but still the victims got nothing.

stalingrad
08-02-11, 16:38
I heard from my banker friends it is totally different in HK. Banks have to vomit out the money.

just read today's article about new rules that developers need to observe when building showflats.

I thought the new rules should've been set a long long time ago.

zzz1
08-02-11, 17:05
seems like FEO getting better, CDL getting worse ~

i believe is the acse of mismanagement on the developer.
Normally, even the developer wins, it will lose it reputation in this instance.

More over is just a mere 600k...developer squeeze a bit here and there (from the sub con) it will settle already and make every body happy...Also which developments got no defect issue wan?

zzz1
08-02-11, 17:08
Ten years back, FEO used to be notorious in terms of the quality of their projects. They slowly cleaned up their acts and built high-end developments to improve the company's image.

There are always risks there when you are buying uncompleted projects. The showflats look nice. So do the drawings in the brochures. But remember they are "artists' impressions only" and showflats are "for display only". You are buying based on "trust" of what the developers and agents said.

Once TOP, you step into the unit and find bad workmanship, different finishing, less space, extra pillar, etc. You can only cross your fingers that the developer will get the defects fixed so you don't have to dig into your own pocket.

Your bargaining power is low because you are only one out of hundreds of owners. You know very well that the developer can easily push the responsibility to someone else and remain hands off. You are wasting time and money hiring a lawyer.

That's very unfair, considering the fact that you've chipped in to help finance the developer's building costs with your deposits and progressive payments few years back.

That's why I only buy completed or 2nd hand projects. What you see is what you get ...

i always have an impression of CDL's good rating for their quality and service.

Lovelle
08-02-11, 17:08
600k is a lot to CDL boss , u know..

blackfire
08-02-11, 17:19
This is an unusual case. It is also unusual that only 2 units were sold prior to CSC and the rest after that. If more units were sold earlier, the owners would have spotted the defects before csc and during defects warranty, and they would have kept the 15% till rectification was done. After such a long time, the defects liability of the contractors is over and CDL has no recourse to them. To make things complicated, the CDL is the managing agent for initial years whereby the problems had already surfaced as claimed by the current owners.It seems that the scope of work required to rectify is going to be a massive scale and no one wants to claim liability.

amk
08-02-11, 18:19
Not just 600k. Not so simple. It's admission of guilt. This will lead to many other law suits. DENY at ALL COSTS :cool:

rattydrama
08-02-11, 19:41
Not just 600k. Not so simple. It's admission of guilt. This will lead to many other law suits. DENY at ALL COSTS :cool:

well the case could be settled out of court and with an undisclosed amount. It will be just like the SHE Selina case.

rattydrama
08-02-11, 19:45
with the pending legal suit it will just be very wrong for the developer to contest and eventually win the case. I will avoid/re-consider CDL project in future bearing in mind that they are unfriendly to home owner.

So in the end CDL is still a big looser. There is a bigger picture for CDL to take care of - company image. It takes one such case to bring down they name and it takes 10 years for FEO to rebuilt their reputation.:spliff:

sh
08-02-11, 19:51
I believe the units are sold after the project is completed. hence sold "as it is".

Just like anyone of us sold our property "as it is". We would not be held responsible for whatever defects in the unit.

What is missing here is whether CDL has made this point clear when the units are sold.:beats-me-man:

zzz1
08-02-11, 21:08
Not just 600k. Not so simple. It's admission of guilt. This will lead to many other law suits. DENY at ALL COSTS :cool:

nah...the developer can asked the parties to sign letter of understanding of discharge. Pay the monies , bat bat the backside and be free..

a property of mine, the basement car park alway got water pounding(uneven surfacing)..the stupid MC agreed and received $200K to close the case...now with that money can't even solve the issue and worst kana complain here and then from the resident..They(MS) should insisted them to retify it instead of compensation

rattydrama
09-02-11, 00:07
I believe the units are sold after the project is completed. hence sold "as it is".

Just like anyone of us sold our property "as it is". We would not be held responsible for whatever defects in the unit.

What is missing here is whether CDL has made this point clear when the units are sold.:beats-me-man:

The plaintiff lawyer could argue that the developer should take reasonable care to ensure the project is built in accordance to workmanlike manner and follow industry standard. If the project start to have leaking problems here and there within a short period, the developer cannot escape liability. Wear and Tear and maintenance could be an issue but workmanship/structural defects is something that is inherited from the construction stage.

however to prove reasonable care may not be easy if there is no strong evidence. For such case, expert surveyor could be sought.

Regulators
09-02-11, 00:11
I think this will probably be settled out of court.


I love what the CDL lawyer said: " there is no such thing as a perfect building" :cool:

I really hope this time small flies can win !

Regulators
09-02-11, 00:18
This project only has 51 units but it has full condo facilities (including tennis court), imo not bad. I think maybe developer tu lan they did not build more units and utilising the land to the max which possibly explains the situation now

Regulators
09-02-11, 00:20
http://cdn.propertyguru.com.sg/images/thumb/7/0/8/a/708a95648507_1_V550.jpg

rattydrama
09-02-11, 00:25
leaking basement carpark - from poor workmanship or material used laying the water proofing membrane which resulted in porous concrete and leaking take place. To make good it can be an extensive job. MSCP better no headache.

But built in 2003.....erm almost 8 years ago & only 51 owners they may not like to foot the bill for such extensive job.

hey good to buy from reputable developer ...can go after them even thou its so long ago.

urban
09-02-11, 05:30
This development sucks. The layout for their penthouse unit makes me giddy.
When i was considering buying, 1 year after TOP, the wear & tear is already obvious......and it is developer sale.

Both FEO & CDL sucks in quality, IMHO.

Komo
09-02-11, 06:04
My impression is that quality wise small projects tend to be not as good as bigger ones, regardless of which developer.

proud owner
09-02-11, 07:22
This development sucks. The layout for their penthouse unit makes me giddy.
When i was considering buying, 1 year after TOP, the wear & tear is already obvious......and it is developer sale.

Both FEO & CDL sucks in quality, IMHO.


i used to own a CDL project ... workmanship was very good .. and even after 10yrs ... it still looked new ...

i have never bought any FEO projects ... haerd too much about their 'quality'...
1 reason i dislike FEO is that for all their projects built in the same period ..all have the same material / tiles ... cant help but feel they buy in bulk, get bulk discounts and yet sell ex ex

teddybear
09-02-11, 07:30
Project too small (too few units) - maintenance fee high and still can't do good maintenance because of budget issues and no economy of scale.

Project too big (too many units) - maintenance fee lower but like fish market, always feel so crowded everywhere in the estate with so many people around. Furthermore, swimming pool always so dirty, things wear out and spoilt faster than they can get them repaired and restored to working condition. :doh:


My impression is that quality wise small projects tend to be not as good as bigger ones, regardless of which developer.

westman
09-02-11, 08:27
Heard the case was settled out of court from colleague?

land118
09-02-11, 08:38
Heard the case was settled out of court from colleague?

Ya, settled, strange, CDL shld have done this even before case went to court when they know it is their best interest to keep this quiet..:

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110209-0000249/Emery-Point-owners-settle-feud-with-CDL

Emery Point owners settle feud with CDL


Rectification of defects may cost between $512,380 and $626,350

http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/cmsfileserver/showimageCC.aspx?124&105&f=2407&img=2407_55714.jpg&h=65&w=55
by Leong Wee Keat (http://forums.condosingapore.com/)
05:55 AM Feb 09, 2011
var fontIndex = 2; var fontSize = new Array('0.63em', '0.69em', '0.75em', '0.88em', '1em', '1.13em');
SINGAPORE - A day after their scheduled 10-day court hearing began, disgruntled unit owners of a condominium agreed to settle with all eight parties - the developer, main contractor, five sub-contractors and architect - they had sued over alleged building defects.

In a joint press statement yesterday evening, Emery Point's management corporation clarified there were only 16 water leakage points in the basement car park, instead of the 280 claimed. "The 280 points refer to proposed grouting points to address the leakage according to the defendants' expert's opinion," said the statement.

Meanwhile, City Developments Limited (CDL) said it has "always been conscious of the quality of (its) projects and at all times fully discharged their duties and obligations as the developer of the estate". For Emery Point, CDL said it had "gone beyond its obligations" by procuring rectification work for defects at individual units.

Besides the leaks in the basement car park, a third of the Ipoh Lane condominium's 51 units were leaking rainwater. Residents also claimed the swimming pool had sharp surfaces that cut swimmers and ruin their swimwear.

CDL said yesterday it had appointed a building surveyor to conduct an inspection before handing over the property. Defects discovered were rectified before the present management corporation took over the common property in July 2005.

To further ensure that unit owners were protected from any defects, CDL said it obtained joint warranties from the main contractor and the subcontractors for a period of five or 10 years.

"Subsequently, whenever any defects arose, the architect, main contractor and the subcontractors would attend at the condominium to address the concerns raised by the management corporation and the unit owners," said the joint statement.

The parties said they were pleased to have resolved the dispute. "The management corporation will be using the settlement sum to do up Emery Point, which should enhance its value," they said of the development that won two construction awards in 2005.

Tender prices submitted by three general contrac

azeoprop
09-02-11, 08:40
Yes, its in straits times today. The issue was settled out of court. At least CDL is quick to do service recovery. :p

land118
09-02-11, 08:42
Yes, its in straits times today. The issue was settled out of court. At least CDL is quick to do service recovery. :p

Just check share price today: no up, slight drop

Stock Name: CITYDEV09/02/2011 09:40

Last: 11.060Change: -0.140Volume: 590,000Remarks: - Change (%): -1.25%Price Range: 11.000 - 11.140

westman
09-02-11, 09:04
Yes, its in straits times today. The issue was settled out of court. At least CDL is quick to do service recovery. :p

Damage done on reputation then take recovery actions. CDL's management approach is questionable.

CDL should addressed this privately and promptly rather than letting it known openly and draggy for years.

Agents would have a hard time to explain to buyers for future CDL's new launch..:doh:

azeoprop
09-02-11, 09:15
H2O residences might be affected....starbuys? :D 600psf

Wild Falcon
09-02-11, 09:48
But FEO generally have higher ceilings - definitely higher than CDL. So I guess it depends on what one is looking for. If ceiling height is important, then FEO is the developer more likely not to shortchange you on that. And if you look at 10 year old projects, many CDL projects use a cheaper grade of marble/timber than FEO. In fact, I've seen laminate flooring (laminate are like stickers to create fake wood) on some CDL projects - but hardly FEO. even if they are in bulk, they are not resorting to compressed marbles or laminates which is the worst quality imaginable.


i used to own a CDL project ... workmanship was very good .. and even after 10yrs ... it still looked new ...

i have never bought any FEO projects ... haerd too much about their 'quality'...
1 reason i dislike FEO is that for all their projects built in the same period ..all have the same material / tiles ... cant help but feel they buy in bulk, get bulk discounts and yet sell ex ex

Laguna
09-02-11, 09:56
Project too big (too many units) - maintenance fee lower but like fish market, always feel so crowded everywhere in the estate with so many people around. Furthermore, swimming pool always so dirty, things wear out and spoilt faster than they can get them repaired and restored to working condition. :doh:

This is not always true for all the big projects
Perhaps, it is more for the mass market projects which I am frightened of the crowded and noise at the pools

land118
09-02-11, 09:57
But FEO generally have higher ceilings - definitely higher than CDL. So I guess it depends on what one is looking for. If ceiling height is important, then FEO is the developer more likely not to shortchange you on that. And if you look at 10 year old projects, many CDL projects use a cheaper grade of marble/timber than FEO. In fact, I've seen laminate flooring (laminate are like stickers to create fake wood) on some CDL projects - but hardly FEO. even if they are in bulk, they are not resorting to compressed marbles or laminates which is the worst quality imaginable.
Any idea what is average ceiling for CDL vs FEO projects? Normal ceiling height is 2.8m ? High Ceiling mean 3.2m?

Laguna
09-02-11, 09:58
most of the water proofing in new condo has 10 years warranty, and other items have 5 years.

Hopefully, this condo after the case, does not discharge the developer from these

stalingrad
09-02-11, 10:12
Any idea what is average ceiling for CDL vs FEO projects? Normal ceiling height is 2.8m ? High Ceiling mean 3.2m?

some condos have ceiling height of 3.3 meters. Mine, for example.

teddybear
09-02-11, 10:19
Yes you are right, not always true for all projects but true for most projects, generally the mass market ones you mentioned. All their neighbours from neighbouring HDB flats also come to enjoy their condo facilities. I know of many people own HDB flats, buy condos nearby, rent out, then go to their condos to use facilities! :doh:


This is not always true for all the big projects
Perhaps, it is more for the mass market projects which I am frightened of the crowded and noise at the pools

acidic.straw
09-02-11, 13:12
Yes you are right, not always true for all projects but true for most projects, generally the mass market ones you mentioned. All their neighbours from neighbouring HDB flats also come to enjoy their condo facilities. I know of many people own HDB flats, buy condos nearby, rent out, then go to their condos to use facilities! :doh:

Yes, that happens. A lot depends on the mgt council and how stringent they want to enforce the rules. The maintenance of the estate also depends on the effectiveness of the MC. In fact, the whole operations of the estate depends on the MC - the type of managing agent, the quality of the guards, the introduction and enforcement of rules and regulations. Of course, the residents are also responsible. :2cents:

Wild Falcon
09-02-11, 13:29
Projects near HDB flats. Condos (including suburban condos) away from the hustle and bustle will not have this problem. And exclusively private residential areas (East Coast, Hillview, West Coast) will not have problems becos every other condo there has their own swimming pool and tennis court therefore nobody needs to gatecrash.


This is not always true for all the big projects
Perhaps, it is more for the mass market projects which I am frightened of the crowded and noise at the pools

Wild Falcon
09-02-11, 13:33
I won't say I've seen all the developments to derive an "average" but a lot of FEO projects are ~3.1 meters and above and CDL I've seen like 2.7-2.8 meters? Also, CDL some old condos use compressed marble in living/dining and laminate in bedrooms. Laminate is using plywood (wooden chips compressed together) and sticking a "timber-looking" sticker on top to make it look like timber strip.


Any idea what is average ceiling for CDL vs FEO projects? Normal ceiling height is 2.8m ? High Ceiling mean 3.2m?

proud owner
09-02-11, 13:38
Projects near HDB flats. Condos (including suburban condos) away from the hustle and bustle will not have this problem. And exclusively private residential areas (East Coast, Hillview, West Coast) will not have problems becos every other condo there has their own swimming pool and tennis court therefore nobody needs to gatecrash.


estate in CCK ... Yishun..... Pasir ris ...etc

i am sure many HDBers there are gate crashing the condos facilities ...

i have witnessed it myself ... many times

land118
09-02-11, 13:46
I won't say I've seen all the developments to derive an "average" but a lot of FEO projects are ~3.1 meters and above and CDL I've seen like 2.7-2.8 meters? Also, CDL some old condos use compressed marble in living/dining and laminate in bedrooms. Laminate is using plywood (wooden chips compressed together) and sticking a "timber-looking" sticker on top to make it look like timber strip.

I think HDB floor to ceiling height is about 2.6m..., mean CDL is almost same as HDB height. Think 3m & above would look better. Nowadays, i come across some project with 3.2m ceiling height, Agent remarked that it is "High Ceiling". As for floor, agree, best is granite, if not then marble (but not compressed marble). As for laminate, think there are wide difference in quality. I just check www.floorxpert.com (http://www.floorxpert.com) website; Pergo brand - Malaysian made laminate 15yrs warranty, while same brand Made in Sweden is 50yrs warranty, such a big difference.

Laguna
09-02-11, 13:59
Yes you are right, not always true for all projects but true for most projects, generally the mass market ones you mentioned. All their neighbours from neighbouring HDB flats also come to enjoy their condo facilities. I know of many people own HDB flats, buy condos nearby, rent out, then go to their condos to use facilities! :doh:

in my condo, we kick out these from the pool :
1. unaccompanied guests
2. owner but not resident
3. guests learning swimming with residents

Now, so peaceful......
But really, we put in a lot of enforcement efforts

hopeful
09-02-11, 14:15
in my condo, we kick out these from the pool :
1. unaccompanied guests
2. owner but not resident
3. guests learning swimming with residents

Now, so peaceful......
But really, we put in a lot of enforcement efforts

how to identify those tresspassers? especialy for those projects with lots of units?

land118
09-02-11, 14:22
in my condo, we kick out these from the pool :
1. unaccompanied guests
2. owner but not resident
3. guests learning swimming with residents

Now, so peaceful......
But really, we put in a lot of enforcement efforts

Wow, must need a lot of enforcement. Number 2 seem quite Harsh, owner-not resident also can't swim..., your condo under 200 units?

proud owner
09-02-11, 14:23
how to identify those tresspassers? especialy for those projects with lots of units?

auditors, compliance, MAS all say ... KYC .... Know Your Clients

security guards too need KYC

ahahaha

stalingrad
09-02-11, 14:24
how to identify those tresspassers? especialy for those projects with lots of units?

easy, just tatoo "can swim" on easy resident's forehead, and kick out everyone with a clear forehead out. and rob them clean before kicking them out with the warning "next time I catch you, I will kick your sorry butt."

rattydrama
09-02-11, 22:16
Heard the case was settled out of court from colleague?

ya read our posts and quickly show hand to avoid further damage..... thats fast but in the first place it should not happen.

another developer kenna sued before was Wxxx Txx not too long ago, a high end condo.... anyone knows that outcome of the case?

rattydrama
09-02-11, 22:22
estate in CCK ... Yishun..... Pasir ris ...etc

i am sure many HDBers there are gate crashing the condos facilities ...

i have witnessed it myself ... many times

not that true. I stay in D23 right now but seldom see people swim in the pool and not sight of "kicking water head to head" as described. In fact most of the time no one at the pool.

Wild Falcon
09-02-11, 22:28
It also depends on the crowd lah. If a lot of ang moh tenant with kids in tow, you can be sure every weekend the pool will be crowded. For newer condos, pools are usually crowded for the novelty factor and stupid housewarming parties. Once a condo is like 5 years old, all novelty dies off and facilities become under-utilised. Esp Asian parents, most are too lazy to teach their children how to swim and will send their children to swim school. And that is assuming your condo is in a relatively "ulu"' place (not too accessibile by public transport) away from HDB flats. Those near HDB and overly-convenient locality will always have the "gatecrasher" problem unless strict enforcement.

rattydrama
09-02-11, 22:42
perhaps there are lesser units (below 200) and all are busy working, no time to use the facilities and not many tenants around.

maybe the mc also super on.....always seeing them walking around the compound to look out for suspicious persons.

westman
09-02-11, 22:45
It also depends on the crowd lah. If a lot of ang moh tenant with kids in tow, you can be sure every weekend the pool will be crowded. For newer condos, pools are usually crowded for the novelty factor and stupid housewarming parties. Once a condo is like 5 years old, all novelty dies off and facilities become under-utilised. Esp Asian parents, most are too lazy to teach their children how to swim and will send their children to swim school. And that is assuming your condo is in a relatively "ulu"' place (not too accessibile by public transport) away from HDB flats. Those near HDB and overly-convenient locality will always have the "gatecrasher" problem unless strict enforcement.

Very true, at least to my 5 years old condo (3xx units). On typical weekend evening, the whole pool,hot spa and jacuzzi often occupied by my two kids only. Shiok!:D

mr funny
10-02-11, 17:04
http://www.straitstimes.com/Singapore/Story/STIStory_632721.html

Feb 9, 2011

EMERY POINT DEFECTS

Owners resolve dispute with CDL, contractors

By Selina Lum

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20110209/ST_19050283.jpg
Emery Point's management corporation will be using the settlement sum to renovate the condo. -- ST PHOTO: ALPHONSUS CHERN

THE High Court lawsuit brought by the management corporation of the Emery Point condominium in Tanjong Katong over building defects was amicably resolved yesterday.

The management corporation, representing the owners, had sued listed developer City Developments Limited (CDL), main contractor Hytech Builders, five subcontractors, and the architect, claiming about $600,000 in compensation to rectify the defects.

The hearing started on Monday, with three subcontractors reaching a settlement with the owners.

Yesterday, the owners also reached a settlement with CDL, Hytech and two other subcontractors. The terms of the settlement are confidential.

In a joint press statement, the parties said they were 'pleased that a final resolution has now been reached' and that the management corporation will be using the settlement sum to 'do up Emery Point, which should enhance its value'.

In the statement, the management corporation clarified that there were only 16 water leakage points in the basement carpark and not 280.

The 280 points - stated by its lawyers - referred to proposed grouting points to address the leakage, it said.

CDL said in the statement that it has always been conscious of the quality of its projects, and detailed how it had in fact gone beyond its obligation.

CDL said it had appointed a building surveyor to conduct an inspection before handing over the common property; defects were rectified before the management corporation took over.

CDL also obtained warranties from the main contractor and subcontractors for five or 10 years.

And when any defects arose, the architect, main contractor and the subcontractors had attended to the defects at the condo.

The statement noted that Emery Point won two Building and Construction Authority awards in May 2005 - the merit award for construction excellence in the residential buildings category, and the best buildable design award.

Laguna
04-10-17, 16:22
I'm glad to see that people took a stand.
Who won in the end?
_________________________________
Alexandra
https://www.revetementagro.com

out of court settlement