View Full Version : URA imposes new guildlines on developers
16 March 2011
Public consultation on proposed changes to the Housing Developers (Control & Licensing) Act & Housing Developers Rules
Mr Mah Bow Tan, Minister for National Development, announced in Parliament on 3 Mar 2011 that the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) will be enhancing the Housing Developers (Control & Licensing) Act (HDCLA) and the Housing Developers Rules (HDR) to give home-buyers better access to accurate and timely information about the market and units that they are buying.
URA is seeking public feedback on key proposed changes to the HDCLA and HDR. The consultation period is from 17 March 2011 to 18 April 2011. The feedback will be taken into consideration before the changes to the HDCLA and HDR legislation are finalised.
The key proposed changes which we are seeking the public’s feedback on are summarised below:
a Set up showflats that depict the actual units accurately
Developers are to comply with a set of directions to ensure that the showflat depicts the actual unit accurately, e.g. floor area of the showflat must be the same as the actual unit, and all external and structural walls must be erected.
b Make available price list
Developers are to make available price list of units in projects at least 2 days before a project is launched for sale1. For projects which are launched in phases, the first price list will have to contain the prices of all the units made available for sale in the first phase. For the subsequent phases, developers are to make the price lists available on the same day when the units are launched for sale.
c Provide more mandatory information on housing projects
In addition to the mandatory information which developers are currently required to provide to home-buyers, such as share value of the unit, developers will also have to provide drawn-to-scale location plan and site plan of the project, unit floor plan and a breakdown of the unit’s floor area listing different types of spaces such as balconies and bay windows. This information will be given to home-buyers before the issue of the Option-to-Purchase2.
d Provide track record of developers
Developers are to provide information on at least one completed project, either by themselves, a related company, or by a director of the developer company to home-buyers before the issue of the Option-to-Purchase. New developers who have not completed any project will have to indicate their lack of track record so that home-buyers can make informed decisions on the purchase of a housing unit.
e Publish transacted prices
Developers will be required to lodge the prices of transacted units with URA on a weekly basis, on every Friday3 after the end of each reference week i.e. developers must lodge the prices of units sold in the preceding Monday to Sunday (inclusive) by the following Friday. The public can view these transacted prices on URA’s website once they are lodged by the developers.
f Obtain home-buyers’ consent for changes to the project
Developers will be required to obtain the home-buyer’s consent for changes that would affect the home-buyer’s unit, e.g. change in the location of the bin centre.
g Extend controls on advertisements to those on websites
The existing controls on advertisements in newspapers and sales brochures will be extended to advertisements on websites. Similar to newspaper advertisements and sales brochures, developers will be required to include basic information on the housing project, e.g. tenure and expected date of vacant possession, in advertisements published on websites. Advertisements published on websites also must not contain any false or misleading information.
Details of the proposed changes to the HDCLA and HDR to enhance transparency and ensure fair contract terms are in Annex A (http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2011/pr11-29a.pdf)4. These changes are worked out in consultation with the Real Estate Developers Association of Singapore (REDAS). Mr Wong Heang Fine, President of REDAS, said, “REDAS supports the Government’s efforts to take steps to help purchasers make more informed decisions. As a body representative of a large community of property developers, REDAS is committed to continually promote good practices and professionalism among developers to deliver better and higher quality homes for all.”
We encourage all interested members of the public to submit their comments via the URA website at www.ura.gov.sg/coh_public_consultation. A summary of the main comments received, together with our responses will be published on URA’s website within 2 months after the end of the public consultation exercise. The identity of the respondents will not be disclosed in the summary.
After taking into consideration the feedback received from the public, the final changes to the HDCLA and HDR will take effect by the third quarter of this year.
Background
The HDCLA was enacted in 1965 to regulate and establish guidelines for developers of private residential projects to protect home-buyers’ interests through the following key measures:
a Ensure equitable sales terms by requiring the use of prescribed Option-to-Purchase and Sale and Purchase Agreements; and b Ensure that monies paid by home-buyers to developers are used solely for purposes related to the development of the project by imposing the requirement to open and maintain a Project Account for the deposit of progress payments. The HDCLA is supplemented by the HDR which stipulates the operational requirements for developers in the sale of uncompleted private housing units .
1 The launch date of a project refers to the first day when units are made available to prospective home-buyers (i.e. issue of the Option-to-Purchase) including private previews or any other occasion which may take place before the official launch of the project. 2 A home-buyer pays a booking fee of 5% to 10% of the purchase price at the point of issue of an Option-to-Purchase for a unit by a developer. He has a period of 3 to 5 weeks from the date of issue of the Option-to-Purchase to consider his purchase. If he decides not to proceed with the purchase, 25% of the booking fee paid will be forfeited, while the remaining 75% of the booking fee will be refunded to him.
3 If the Friday is a public holiday, the deadline for the lodging of transacted prices will be shifted to the next working day.
4 We are also proposing changes to the HDCLA and HDR to simplify licensing requirements. These changes pertain mainly to the business operations of developers and key industry stakeholders such as the Real Estate Developers’ Association of Singapore, the Law Society of Singapore and the Consumers Association of Singapore, which have been consulted separately.
You see lah, this is what happen when you don't play ball with MBT.:) A case of too little too late?
Clap clap...
However, i'm sure the developers will circumvent many of these restrictions. Just start selling before launch i.e "preview for VIP/VVIP/VVVVIP etc...". Not required to obey the transparency rules during previews right ?
They will always find a way around it. Must fine/jail/suspend a few big fishes to show they mean business, or else such rules will just be a farce.
phantom_opera
16-03-11, 17:42
CAPL/Keppel temasek owned woh .. must give MBT a bit of face right :D
It is already "no face" that CAPL bid Bishan 869psf and Keppel bid Sengkang 502psf + CDL manages to sell so many H2Os after MBT's "don't buy now, price will drop" sweet talk :mad:
"a breakdown of the unit’s floor area listing different types of spaces such as balconies and bay windows."
this one good for buyers, bad for developers.:D
Wonder many buyers would change their minds to buy after seeing the real show flats of MM units...
“REDAS supports the Government’s efforts to take steps to help purchasers make more informed decisions. As a body representative of a large community of property developers, REDAS is committed to continually promote good practices and professionalism among developers to deliver better and higher quality homes for all.”
REDAS actually cursing and swearing, but have to give "model" reply....:mad:
Actually, once you sit down and think about it. The guidelines are not going to do anything.
In a hot market, everybody goes crazy. If one of you backaway after studying, another one will step forward and submit blank check, even without looking at the plans.
The big difference is the price list has be made available 2 days earlier. The developer cannot raise the price as and when they like, once the price list is published.:)
The big difference is the price list has be made available 2 days earlier. The developer cannot raise the price as and when they like, once the price list is published.:)
collect check 4 days before launch?
or first launch is for vip/vvip
subsequent launch is for public. price list on day of subsequent launch.
or subsequent launch, collect checks first?
what the developers are going to do is to have many many mini phases. ie 2 units per phase.... release price for 2 units at a go.... release 20 phases in 1 day....
MBT's brilliant idea not working leh?:beats-me-man:
bargain hunter
16-03-11, 22:32
i think the main idea is not blank cheques. just that prices must be made available 2 days before buyers sign anything can already.
i think the main idea is not blank cheques. just that prices must be made available 2 days before buyers sign anything can already.
How come property held up to higher standard than IPOs?
IPOs also dont know actual price. They only tell you the range of prices.
proud owner
17-03-11, 08:11
The big difference is the price list has be made available 2 days earlier. The developer cannot raise the price as and when they like, once the price list is published.:)
they can always set it really really high ...
and then give discount ...right ?
bargain hunter
17-03-11, 08:31
smaller ipos they give u actual price. for big companies then there's a range, depending on demand.
for ppty, not sure if it can practically be implemented?
How come property held up to higher standard than IPOs?
IPOs also dont know actual price. They only tell you the range of prices.
Taken from Channel News Asia and Today
SINGAPORE : The proposed changes in the rules that govern Singapore's property developers could dampen sales of small apartment units, according to experts.
They said the disclosure of more information could lead to better-informed, and thus also more picky, buyers.
They added that the new rules could also spur competition in the industry, leading to superior innovation and more incentives from developers, offering better values.
Detailed information that developers will now have to share with prospective home buyers include a break-down of the unit's floor area, listing different types of spaces such as balconies and bay windows.
Experts said this could be negative for projects with smaller apartments, especially single-room units, which are typically popular with investors.
Nicholas Mak, executive director, Research and Consultancy, SLP International, said: In future, developers are required to state the size of various parts of the apartment, for example the balcony, the airconditioner ledge and so on.
"Currently all this area is summed up as the total saleable space of an apartment. But once they are itemised, the buyer will have a better understanding of what is the actual internal space of their apartment, thereby they will be able to make a more informed choice..
"Buyers could become more picky as well - because for some of so-called mickey mouse apartments or shoebox apartments, a significant proportion of their space are actually aircon ledges or balcony space and such."
Another new requirement is that developers must transparently list the prices of all the units.
Observers said this will give buyers the power to compare projects and bargain for a better deal. That will, in turn, put pressure on developers to offer more value-for-money products such as better flooring finishes.
The new requirement also means developers will have less flexibility to adjust prices according to demand through the day. It will still be possible, but more logistically challenging.
Some developers, however, believe that too much consumer focus on price could distract them from putting adequate value on quality.
Danny Low, COO, Heeton Holdings, said: "We don't want to come to a stage where people try to sell an apple for 100 grammes at a certain price, and another shouting I'm selling at this price.
"And that would distract the attention of the buyer, who will then have to decide, 'Should I go for the cheaper one or should I go for the developer's name behind the project and location?'"
The new changes will generally mean more disclosure, which could be taxing for smaller developers here.
Daniel Teo, chairman & managing director, Daniel Teo Group, said: "It's quite onerous - we have to measure and consult and discuss the trend, time consuming.
"For bigger projects, you may have to get more staff to back you up, engage outside consultants. Overall, it will definitely add to our running costs and reduce our profit margin, if any, with the market situation."
"We should be able to absorb it, but again development is a fairly high risk, depending on the market situation, so it's up and down and give and take. It will be more taxing on us, but as long as it's more transparent and good for the consumer, we will support that."
The Real Estate Developers Association of Singapore said it supports the government's efforts to help buyers make more informed decisions.
Wong Heang Fine, President of REDAS, said: "REDAS supports the government's efforts to take steps to help purchasers make more informed decisions.
"As a body representative of a large community of property developers, REDAS is committed to continually promote good practices and professionalism among developers to deliver better and higher quality homes for all."
Market watchers have also applauded the move, which some say are long overdue.
Colin Tan, director, Research & Consultancy Department, Chesterton Suntec International, said: "The need to breakdown the actual areas for the various spaces in the apartment or house is significant. This will help buyers to compare them with other properties that they are also considering buying.
"I would further recommend these areas be included in the legal title documents so that the information is not lost when sold onwards to other buyers."
"Developers will also be more cautious in 'suddenly' or drastically increasing their prices after an unexpectedly good preview or initial sales, as customers will be able to see the trend for the pricing for their projects," said Adam Tan, manager, Corporate Communications & Marketing, Propnex.
- CNA/al
I suggest that BCA and Redas work together. Developers are to send their showroom details, plans and marketing collaterals for approval before developers could market to the potential investors. This should include VVVIPs preview and thereafter investors.
devilplate
17-03-11, 11:15
hopefully this will help to stop MM craze....
itemise usable space goodie....as we only get to see the figures when S&P is delivered now....always ask the agts...say duno....den i goto use ruler to 'argar agar':banghead:
Wild Falcon
17-03-11, 11:22
This Daniel Teo is despicable. He actually finds telling the truth "onerous"! You mean last time he never bother to measure and reflect the actual unit size at the showflat? Reflecting the truth and actual units size reduce profit margin? Unbelievable. Even if he thinks so and prefer to anyhow build showflats to deceive, he actually has the cheek to say that!
Also, why would he need to engage more consultants to reflect actual measurements? Surely more "consultants" and brainpower are required to cheat and deceive?
======
Daniel Teo, chairman & managing director, Daniel Teo Group, said: "It's quite onerous - we have to measure and consult and discuss the trend, time consuming.
"For bigger projects, you may have to get more staff to back you up, engage outside consultants. Overall, it will definitely add to our running costs and reduce our profit margin, if any, with the market situation."
This Daniel Teo is despicable. He actually finds telling the truth "onerous"! You mean last time he never bother to measure and reflect the actual unit size at the showflat? Reflecting the truth and actual units size reduce profit margin? Unbelievable. Even if he thinks so and prefer to anyhow build showflats to deceive, he actually has the cheek to say that!
Also, why would he need to engage more consultants to reflect actual measurements? Surely more "consultants" and brainpower are required to cheat and deceive?
======
Daniel Teo, chairman & managing director, Daniel Teo Group, said: "It's quite onerous - we have to measure and consult and discuss the trend, time consuming.
"For bigger projects, you may have to get more staff to back you up, engage outside consultants. Overall, it will definitely add to our running costs and reduce our profit margin, if any, with the market situation."
That's total BULLSHIT. The developers know EXACTLY what the built-in area is. It's called GFA. Necessity for submission and clearance from URA. They also know exactly what the "extras" are. The difference between the strata area and GFA.:simmering:
That's a whole load of CRAP.....:mad:
Guess what Daniel Teo is the board member for national library board too. Tsk tsk
Daniel TEO
Managing Director
Daniel Teo Group of Companies
101 Cecil Street #26-08/12
Tong Eng Building
Singapore 069533
62231511
[email protected]
Buyers should be entitled to know all prices. Knowing the prices doesn't mean they'll ignore the value of the development's quality. It's absurb that they prefer less price transparency.
In fact, I think showrooms should have one unit that shows the actual unit before and ID work.
hopefully this will help to stop MM craze....
itemise usable space goodie....as we only get to see the figures when S&P is delivered now....always ask the agts...say duno....den i goto use ruler to 'argar agar':banghead:
got double standard or not?
Peter Lim and family occupies entire condo project.
Rich families stay in 30.000sf GCB.
Nobody makes noise about inefficient use of space.
Developer built MMs. People complain about inefficient use of space.
4 people can occupy 40.000sf GCB.
yet 4 people cannot occupy 400sf MM?
It is their choice le.
bargain hunter
18-03-11, 13:06
can occupy. if 400 sq ft is 400 sq ft, that's fine. but these MM developers are exploiting planter, bay windows, balconies and now air con ledges! as a percentage of 400sq ft, it is these exploitations (read as PROFITS for developers) that are making MMs inefficient.
got double standard or not?
Peter Lim and family occupies entire condo project.
Rich families stay in 30.000sf GCB.
Nobody makes noise about inefficient use of space.
Developer built MMs. People complain about inefficient use of space.
4 people can occupy 40.000sf GCB.
yet 4 people cannot occupy 400sf MM?
It is their choice le.
can occupy. if 400 sq ft is 400 sq ft, that's fine. but these MM developers are exploiting planter, bay windows, balconies and now air con ledges! as a percentage of 400sq ft, it is these exploitations (read as PROFITS for developers) that are making MMs inefficient.
Should we not let the market decide want MMs or not in housing market.
Afterall nobody is forcing people to buy MMs or even private properties.
Government provide subsidised public housing. Nobody forced them to move right?
Developer cannot profit is it? Only subsales and resales can profit?
For example, developer launch MM 400sf @1500psf. liveable space only 300sf.
Does resale owner want to sell only liveable space 300sf@1700psf?
No right? Resale owner also want to sell at 400sf@1700psf. He also make profit from aircon ledges, planters, bay windows, etc.
In my mind, having a garden 20,000square feet in GCB is also inefficient. If like plants, go to Botanical garden instead.
Would like to know more your definition of efficiency. Quite interesting le, the meaning of efficiency.
I dont mind MM. Should let market decide and not let government regulate everything. Government should regulate only accuracy of data etc, no misleading showflats, slick brochures like condos surrounded by greenery.
blackpepperj
18-03-11, 13:29
got double standard or not?
Peter Lim and family occupies entire condo project.
Rich families stay in 30.000sf GCB.
Nobody makes noise about inefficient use of space.
Developer built MMs. People complain about inefficient use of space.
4 people can occupy 40.000sf GCB.
yet 4 people cannot occupy 400sf MM?
It is their choice le.
I think your post is an inefficient use of space :cheers6:
I think your post is an inefficient use of space :cheers6:
care to explain why? or is it just another one liner?
bargain hunter
18-03-11, 13:55
i was writing in regard to the title of this thread. it is good that URA lets pple be more aware of how big each area is and how showflats conceal how small each unit actually is. after that, no problem, let market decide whether they want to buy or not.
of course developers have to make profits. if they provide value add, no problem. the problem now is MM developers are raising psf obscenely by exploiting the loopholes in a/c ledge and balconies. its become a numbers game. for eg, if i sell something of 400sq ft, but 30% is air con ledge/balcony...heh heh, rub hands, how much profit i will make. on the other hand, say for those developers selling small 2 bedders of say 750 sq ft, their balcony and a/c ledge if also big at 150 sq ft (20%) + the psf is not super stretched upwards, at least its not as bad rite?
Should we not let the market decide want MMs or not in housing market.
Afterall nobody is forcing people to buy MMs or even private properties.
Government provide subsidised public housing. Nobody forced them to move right?
Developer cannot profit is it? Only subsales and resales can profit?
For example, developer launch MM 400sf @1500psf. liveable space only 300sf.
Does resale owner want to sell only liveable space 300sf@1700psf?
No right? Resale owner also want to sell at 400sf@1700psf. He also make profit from aircon ledges, planters, bay windows, etc.
In my mind, having a garden 20,000square feet in GCB is also inefficient. If like plants, go to Botanical garden instead.
Would like to know more your definition of efficiency. Quite interesting le, the meaning of efficiency.
I dont mind MM. Should let market decide and not let government regulate everything. Government should regulate only accuracy of data etc, no misleading showflats, slick brochures like condos surrounded by greenery.
care to explain why? or is it just another one liner?
like what you said...u want to support PCP of singpaore, as u claimed u are coward and shallow due to yr investments in Singapore, but when ask if you are singaporean yet, than u said u are not going to convert..than how u vote and support(unless u....), and furthermore u also called singaporean NATO(no action talk only)....:D you are really one LPPL...:D cheers...
like what you said...u want to support PCP of singpaore, as u claimed u are coward and shallow due to yr investments in Singapore, but when ask if you are singaporean yet, than u said u are not going to convert..than how u vote support(unless u....), and furthermore u also called singaporean NATO(no action talk only)....:D you are really one LPPL...:D cheers...
Hi all, i think this point about MM (or citizenship) is something of a personal opinion. The one with family of 5 staying at a 398 sqft MM is me, so yeah, it's personal choice too for me.
But of course if got money to buy 40000sqft house for my family of 5 i also happy. I think as we all know, have better than don't have.
So small fry like me, do excuse that i only have enough for MM but as long as everyone make money we should be happy for all, esp those who contribute to condosingapore frequently.:D
Peace to all of us in these troubled times.
like what you said...u want to support PCP of singpaore, as u claimed u are coward and shallow due to yr investments in Singapore, but when ask if you are singaporean yet, than u said u are not going to convert..than how u vote and support(unless u....), and furthermore u also called singaporean NATO(no action talk only)....:D you are really one LPPL...:D cheers...
OOT but anyway:
Any contradictions in above statements?
sure I support PAP government because of my investments. So far they have done farely well in asset appreciation, didn't they. Anybody here dare to disagree? So far never lose money. Only make more or make less only. But do I want to be Singaporean? No benefits that make me wants to convert. Unless 999/FH mainland landed is open to foreigners, non-PRs. (which devilplate will vehemently oppose).
Sure Singaporeans are NATO. After the complain and sing song sessions, they vote for their pocket. It is only human nature. I also vote for my pocket in my country. Will eat my words only if there is a "tsunami" like what happened in Malaysian election. If increase by 1 seat out of current 2, that is hardly a "tsunami".
Me, I am a shallow and cowardly investor, protecting his invesments :)
If and when, cannot make money in Singapore, I put money elsewhere lor :D. Afterall, the world is playground, except that Singapore playground is nearer and more convenient. :cheers1:
Peace be to all.
i was writing in regard to the title of this thread. it is good that URA lets pple be more aware of how big each area is and how showflats conceal how small each unit actually is. after that, no problem, let market decide whether they want to buy or not.
of course developers have to make profits. if they provide value add, no problem. the problem now is MM developers are raising psf obscenely by exploiting the loopholes in a/c ledge and balconies. its become a numbers game. for eg, if i sell something of 400sq ft, but 30% is air con ledge/balcony...heh heh, rub hands, how much profit i will make. on the other hand, say for those developers selling small 2 bedders of say 750 sq ft, their balcony and a/c ledge if also big at 150 sq ft (20%) + the psf is not super stretched upwards, at least its not as bad rite?
The thing is Developer can rub hands, but will buyers bite? That is the issue isn't it.
If you think it is lousy design, lots of wasted space, you don't buy.
Other people may think it is okay, so they buy, either to stay or to rent it out.
Let market decide whether MM is attractive or not.
If after 3 MM projects failed to sell, you think developer will still launch high and to build more MM projects?
Let market forces do the work, as in the case of Okio Residences. Think it is doing badly.
Another example of market forces at work.
Developer can launch CCR at high prices. But if most dont bite, developer also no choice but to reduce prices, like that Paterson condo.
But I think all of us agree on accuracy of data. No more misleading showflats, brochures. The more and accurate the data the better for property buyers and investors.
To tell you the truth, the improved URA guidelines would benefit me more than benefit locals. I am based overseas. Seldom visit showflats. Only download ebrochures, Streetsine, URA, and see Googleearth only. So the better the ebrochure, the better it is for me.
devilplate
18-03-11, 15:10
got double standard or not?
Peter Lim and family occupies entire condo project.
Rich families stay in 30.000sf GCB.
Nobody makes noise about inefficient use of space.
Developer built MMs. People complain about inefficient use of space.
4 people can occupy 40.000sf GCB.
yet 4 people cannot occupy 400sf MM?
It is their choice le.
i dun tink i am toking about efficiency of living spaces....??:confused: :beats-me-man:
i want URA to regulate and set min 500sqft and set a max number of 1bedders in a project....i am toking about potential social problems, SG ppty landscape, a drop in quality of living.....
y suddenly u twist it become inefficiency???
we nid rules and regulations....cannot always say willing buyer willing seller....
worse still: burden lies on the reader/buyer and not seller/agt/writer.....den y set up CEA in the first place?(smbody else said it...not u...haha)
URA haf oredi set min 300sqft after ppl complain about 2xxsqft king of MM been built....i just feel 300sqft is not gd enuff after seeing 3xxsqft efficient layout without planter/baywindow
i was writing in regard to the title of this thread. it is good that URA lets pple be more aware of how big each area is and how showflats conceal how small each unit actually is. after that, no problem, let market decide whether they want to buy or not.
of course developers have to make profits. if they provide value add, no problem. the problem now is MM developers are raising psf obscenely by exploiting the loopholes in a/c ledge and balconies. its become a numbers game. for eg, if i sell something of 400sq ft, but 30% is air con ledge/balcony...heh heh, rub hands, how much profit i will make. on the other hand, say for those developers selling small 2 bedders of say 750 sq ft, their balcony and a/c ledge if also big at 150 sq ft (20%) + the psf is not super stretched upwards, at least its not as bad rite?
Which do you think a developer will sell at a higher price?
MM, with 400sq ft, with 300sq ft usable space
MM, with 300sq ft, with 300sq ft usable space
I think the 400sq ft unit will sell for a slightly higher price, but not much more. The per sq ft price will be lower. But it will be about the same price. The "extra" areas actually make the per sq ft price look more attractive.:(
devilplate
18-03-11, 15:15
Which do you think a developer will sell at a higher price?
MM, with 400sq ft, with 300sq ft usable space
MM, with 300sq ft, with 300sq ft usable space
I think the 400sq ft unit will sell for a slightly higher price, but not much more. The per sq ft price will be lower. But it will be about the same price. The "extra" areas actually make the per sq ft price look more attractive.:(
not really....
if market can support let say 1kpsf....developer will sell at 1kpsf for both cases.....
when developer gets greedy...cheat on a/c ledge etc for boost up their profit margin...tats all...
with these regulations....developers goto declare their 'tricks' openly and buyers r more well informed....thus, this will hurt developer profit margin.....of coz, developer can try to sell at higher psf....but will market accept it?
blackpepperj
18-03-11, 15:31
i dun tink i am toking about efficiency of living spaces....??:confused: :beats-me-man:
i want URA to regulate and set min 500sqft and set a max number of 1bedders in a project....i am toking about potential social problems, SG ppty landscape, a drop in quality of living.....
y suddenly u twist it become inefficiency???
we nid rules and regulations....cannot always say willing buyer willing seller....
worse still: burden lies on the reader/buyer and not seller/agt/writer.....den y set up CEA in the first place?(smbody else said it...not u...haha)
URA haf oredi set min 300sqft after ppl complain about 2xxsqft king of MM been built....i just feel 300sqft is not gd enuff after seeing 3xxsqft efficient layout without planter/baywindow
Devilplate has perfectly explained my one liner for me.
Devilplate has perfectly explained my one liner for me.
sorry, that doesn't cut it. nobody explained about double standards yet?
can set minimum size, but cannot set maximum size?
proud owner
18-03-11, 15:35
sorry, that doesn't cut it. nobody explained about double standards yet?
can set minimum size, but cannot set maximum size?
we have minimum wage ... but no maximum right ?
we have minimum wage ... but no maximum right ?
That's a good point.
Except in Singapore context, there is always the HDB.
If all developers build MM, Singaporeans can all stay in HDB flats.
if no minimum wage, all bosses can make agreement to set low wages. Can the Singapore civil service hire all the unemployed? If everybody become civil servant, can business run without workers?
My point is, no need for minimum size property. or allocate max no of 1bedder/MM. Market forces will do the rest.
URA should focus more on truth in advertising.
I for one welcome the planned regulations. However, i still believe buyers need to use their eyes properly and really 'see' what they are buying not just 'look'... There are already many MMs that TOP in the market, just go and do some viewing and research and decide for yourself. People like Tericia and myself still decide to go for this segment after that. Cant always expect govt to babysit.
devilplate
18-03-11, 20:02
Cannot expect govt to babysit.....
Let market forces dictate....
Dun nid cooling measures rite? Singaporeans always got hdb bto to fall bck on n we shd let market forces to dictate the pte ppty prices .... Willing buyer willing seller mah... Y artificially suppressed the market forces??
Sell MM is ok, as long as they display full specs and let the buyer decide. And if they think this will affect their profit margins, then don't be too gung ho and bid high price for land. Overall, if land prices cools, prices won't be consistently driven higher and higher.
New regulation only benefit new launch buyers? URA should also now mandate that all the info on aircon ledge sizes etc be written in black & white in caveats lodged & resale buyers can find these info to get informed decision on their purchase. :cheers1:
Subsale of uncompleted is probably ok. But no need for completed resale lah, cos the buyers can see with their own eyes the actual size.
This regulation is not about govt baby sitting.... It is to make sure buyers are not hoodwink into thinking they are buying 400 sqft of space when it's actually 250 sqft....
So no one is actually complaining how big or small these units are, just as long it's not misrepresented then ok Liao....
300 sqft is about the size of a moderately big and comfortable hotel room.
Condo Kaiser
19-03-11, 15:55
moderately big and comfortable hotel room does not have kitchen and seperation between living/dining/bedroom so it's definitely livable (for a hotel room) but throw in a kitchen area and seperate bedroom, then it will be a tight squeeze.
But to each its own. I'm in no position to say no one should live like a squatter.
Definitely a good thing that govt enforce the developers to fully disclose the actual floorsize and a accurate showflat will allow potential buyers understand what they are buying into. So no one can complaint they were cheated.
Cannot imagine staying in my bedroom with kitchen, washing machine, etc. in it.
300 sqft is about the size of a moderately big and comfortable hotel room.
i lived in a 600sqft one bedder when on holiday, and it doesn't include air con ledge space or yard. quite liveable for one couple only. but if you add kids.... tsk tsk, it gets tight.
Wild Falcon
20-03-11, 00:59
When you go to a hotel, u just bring a luggage. But in your own house, you will lots of other things to store e.g. books, CDs, piano, guitar, luggage, vacuum cleaner, bicycle, rollerblade, printer, scanner, entire shoe and clothes collection, travel souvenirs, big fridge, oven, crockeries etc. One definitely need more space in your own house than hotel room.
300 sqft is about the size of a moderately big and comfortable hotel room.
Wild Falcon
20-03-11, 01:07
Your posts are always so convulated.
The new rules are just asking the developers to call a spade a spade. In short, don't tell people you're selling oranges when you're selling lemon. Be truthful and more transparent. And we have to move forward u know. Last time can sell koyok without the "ingredients" - now all medicine at the pharmacy must clearly indicate the "ingredient" tio bo? And no seller of any product will automatically disclose one, u need regulation to make sure that happens. Just like listed company also need regulation to ensure transparency. Simi free market r u talking about? We're talking about having regulation to ensure greater transparency. There is a lot deception in the showflats - that is not healthy.
And we have to move forward.
The thing is Developer can rub hands, but will buyers bite? That is the issue isn't it.
If you think it is lousy design, lots of wasted space, you don't buy.
Other people may think it is okay, so they buy, either to stay or to rent it out.
Let market decide whether MM is attractive or not.
If after 3 MM projects failed to sell, you think developer will still launch high and to build more MM projects?
Let market forces do the work, as in the case of Okio Residences. Think it is doing badly.
Another example of market forces at work.
Developer can launch CCR at high prices. But if most dont bite, developer also no choice but to reduce prices, like that Paterson condo.
But I think all of us agree on accuracy of data. No more misleading showflats, brochures. The more and accurate the data the better for property buyers and investors.
To tell you the truth, the improved URA guidelines would benefit me more than benefit locals. I am based overseas. Seldom visit showflats. Only download ebrochures, Streetsine, URA, and see Googleearth only. So the better the ebrochure, the better it is for me.
Your posts are always so convulated.
The new rules are just asking the developers to call a spade a spade. In short, don't tell people you're selling oranges when you're selling lemon. Be truthful and more transparent. And we have to move forward u know. Last time can sell koyok without the "ingredients" - now all medicine at the pharmacy must clearly indicate the "ingredient" tio bo? And no seller of any product will automatically disclose one, u need regulation to make sure that happens. Just like listed company also need regulation to ensure transparency. Simi free market r u talking about? We're talking about having regulation to ensure greater transparency. There is a lot deception in the showflats - that is not healthy.
And we have to move forward.
you see only what you want to see is it?
I mentioned that there should no restriction on sizes of flats. Let market decides what it wants.
I did agree on truth in advertising.
Will you read properly?
rattydrama
20-03-11, 07:52
moderately big and comfortable hotel room does not have kitchen and seperation between living/dining/bedroom so it's definitely livable (for a hotel room) but throw in a kitchen area and seperate bedroom, then it will be a tight squeeze.
But to each its own. I'm in no position to say no one should live like a squatter.
Definitely a good thing that govt enforce the developers to fully disclose the actual floorsize and a accurate showflat will allow potential buyers understand what they are buying into. So no one can complaint they were cheated.
This will put MM units into test just wonder if seeing the actual unit will there still be takers?
Developers will have to increase the floor size to a reasonable level. No longer can think of squeezing to max profit as the sole reason for building MMs.
So what about those who committed and bought those 300sq ft units earlier? If I am the tenant I would prefer 500-600 sq ft than those 300-400 sq ft if there is not much dif in price.
This regulation is not about govt baby sitting.... It is to make sure buyers are not hoodwink into thinking they are buying 400 sqft of space when it's actually 250 sqft....
So no one is actually complaining how big or small these units are, just as long it's not misrepresented then ok Liao....
Maybe you are right. Coz I'm a seasoned buyer I know when and where to ask what - specifically whether features are ID or comes with it, and where does the door start and balcony end etc. Newbies may not know what to ask - a case of 'you don't know what you don't know'.
As I always stand by the fact about Marketing - it is to sell the truth in a nice way but not necessary the whole truth (until being questioned) including warts and all as there is no such thing as a perfect product and it is only logical for anyone to want to bring focus and attention to the good parts of the product.
Taken from Asiaone
http://business.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Property/Story/A1Story20110317-268622.html
http://business.asiaone.com/A1MEDIA/business/03Mar11/20110317.160045_bt_graphic.jpg
Taken from Asiaone
http://business.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Property/Story/A1Story20110317-268622.html
I sent in suggestion to not only lodge the prices within a week but also to state clearly the actual unit number.
This will put MM units into test just wonder if seeing the actual unit will there still be takers?
Developers will have to increase the floor size to a reasonable level. No longer can think of squeezing to max profit as the sole reason for building MMs.
So what about those who committed and bought those 300sq ft units earlier? If I am the tenant I would prefer 500-600 sq ft than those 300-400 sq ft if there is not much dif in price.
In space planning, layout makes all the difference. I've seen very liveable 355sf layout vs horrid 500sf layout.
Maybe you are right. Coz I'm a seasoned buyer I know when and where to ask what - specifically whether features are ID or comes with it, and where does the door start and balcony end etc. Newbies may not know what to ask - a case of 'you don't know what you don't know'.
As I always stand by the fact about Marketing - it is to sell the truth in a nice way but not necessary the whole truth (until being questioned) including warts and all as there is no such thing as a perfect product and it is only logical for anyone to want to bring focus and attention to the good parts of the product.
I also know how to ask the questions, but I tell you, having them just drawing a line on the ground doesn't show how small the place is, coz of visual deception.... They must put up all walls man.... I would agree with a previous forumers that the developers must show one plain vanilla unit and one with ID....
That is the fairest...
Yes, those marking lines on the floor don't give people a good gauge of the closeness of the walls or sliding windows, hence it is much fairer to have a plain vanilla and an ID version.
they should just have the plain vanilla version. isn't that what they are selling?Don't give places for developers to hide....
The ID firms will run out of business....
Aiya, don't be so harsh, even when you look for a life partner, you expect some packaging up right? I'm sure you don't ask your girlfriend or boyfriend to dress down to plain vanilla! :cheers1: So some dressing up is fine, just show people what's before and after.
Condo Kaiser
21-03-11, 04:59
In space planning, layout makes all the difference. I've seen very liveable 355sf layout vs horrid 500sf layout.
True that space planning makes a world of difference. But the point here is not about comparing space planning or minimalist ultilisation. Regulating the developers to present a truthful representation of actual sizes and provide all information on A/C ledges etc is the only way forward.
Surely it is better that consumers can see the actual 300 sqft that they intend to perform their space planning with than to have them buy into what is said to be 400 sqft but really turned out to be 300 sqft of usable space.
I wouldn't be too happy when I have already planned how I intend to fully utilise my precious 400 sqft, but to only find out when i get the key that really I only have 300 sqft to play with unless I put my fridge together with my A/C.:scared-3:
True that space planning makes a world of difference. But the point here is not about comparing space planning or minimalist ultilisation. Regulating the developers to present a truthful representation of actual sizes and provide all information on A/C ledges etc is the only way forward.
Surely it is better that consumers can see the actual 300 sqft that they intend to perform their space planning with than to have them buy into what is said to be 400 sqft but really turned out to be 300 sqft of usable space.
I wouldn't be too happy when I have already planned how I intend to fully utilise my precious 400 sqft, but to only find out when i get the key that really I only have 300 sqft to play with unless I put my fridge together with my A/C.:scared-3:
Don't misunderstand my intentions - I fully support the regulator's suggestions and then some...
Long Overdue ....
Should also target those that gives "blank Cheq" that milk the max out of buyers ! :doh:
devilplate
21-03-11, 12:18
Long Overdue ....
Should also target those that gives "blank Cheq" that milk the max out of buyers ! :doh:
oredi proposed to declare list px 2 days b4 preview launch:cheers6:
now developer cannot gather blank chq to test market response and adjust their prices....yeah....hahaha
That'll level the playing field. If they want bidding war, they could always try for auction format for a few select units.
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