View Full Version : Developers less positive about market
http://www.straitstimes.com/Money/Story/STIStory_662897.html
Apr 30, 2011
Developers less positive about market
PROPERTY players are a bit less optimistic about the market than they were previously, according to an industry measure.
The sentiment index has weakened to 4.9 from 5.7, while the mood for the months ahead also slipped as compared with the fourth quarter, a likely reflection of the recent market cooling measures.
The index, which is compiled by the National University of Singapore's Department of Real Estate, consists of scores ranging from 0 - the most pessimistic - to 10, which registers a high level of optimism.
As part of the quarterly survey, developers were asked about their expectations of the new private property launches.
As a sign of weakening outlook towards the property sector, 62 per cent of developers surveyed expect more residential units to be launched over the next six months compared with 74 per cent in the previous quarter.
About twice as many developers - around 69 per cent - as compared with the fourth quarter also expect prices to remain flat.
Only 35 per cent of respondents anticipate greater interest in the collective sale market, down from 52 per cent.
The way to overcome this fear is to control the launch of new projects so as to create a pen up demand. :D
Geylang OKT
01-05-11, 00:15
The way to overcome this fear is to control the launch of new projects so as to create a pen up demand. :D
With massive oversupply of both hdb and pte units looming in the coming months and weakening interest going forward... how to have pent up demand leh? :tsk-tsk: :doh: :scared-1:
Put it another way... similar to the equities markets.... when all who wanted to buy would have already bought.... what happens next? :banghead: :scared-3: :banghead:
Those developers who have bought from GLC cannot wait too long to launch. The clock is ticking away for their lease.
devilplate
01-05-11, 01:16
With massive oversupply of both hdb and pte units looming in the coming months and weakening interest going forward... how to have pent up demand leh? :tsk-tsk: :doh: :scared-1:
Put it another way... similar to the equities markets.... when all who wanted to buy would have already bought.... what happens next? :banghead: :scared-3: :banghead:
oversupply goto wait till 2013 onwards
vote for 5-82! and u will see instant result:D :D :D
Geylang OKT
01-05-11, 01:30
oversupply goto wait till 2013 onwards
vote for 5-82! and u will see instant result:D :D :D
Sooner than you tink! end 2011 already jialut :D :D :D
If Tamp GRC loses, does it mean all the promised BTO and land parcels for sale will all fall through? Then our property prices will soar again??? Huat ah... :spliff:
devilplate
01-05-11, 09:42
If Tamp GRC loses, does it mean all the promised BTO and land parcels for sale will all fall through? Then our property prices will soar again??? Huat ah... :spliff:
if MBT kena voted out.....next CM will be delayed:cheers6:
nobody has the right answer
those who has been running the country for so long face so much challenges
like any football matches. fans are the ones who think that they are the coach...shouting from bench that striker no good la shld attack from left pass to left midfield la....bla blah blah but when you field these fans, they may just freeze and screw big time on ground.
same for property mkt..justclike doctor. you dont feel well, doc asks for symptoms and prescribe medicine and see if it works. nope then prescribe stronger medicine otherwise antibiotics..worstcase admit patient to hospital and put on drip
all can say this and that but when put him/her n MBT shoes and run and call the shots....this seat is hot
next measures if i am him would be (same like CHina and HK) and avoid any possible bubbl burst is either to mop up liquidity in market attractive bond issuance or raise interest rates (EMI will shoot up investors will think twice)
from previous cooling measures, MBT gving hint to all not to gear up, within your financial means and not to punt. vicious cycle....private price comes down, same for hdb. shld property prices tumble, alot of property cheonger wld hv been bunt badly like what happened to HK property investors
if MBT push too hard on HDB prices.....the impact will be on existing HDB prices. some may have used the increased wealth to do business and failed and now want Govt to help. hear so many stories of those in heartland who gave$$ to children or those who fell prey to mistresses....etc
current situation is like in chinese family third generation wants to split wealth and enjoy. first generation makes the wealth second generation maintain, third generation wants to enjoy. no hard work but all the fast ways to make $$$ like cheong property..casino
my personal take - inflation is everywhere globally not only in SG. hence govt is saving for rainy days. we see neighbouring country or in mid west (black gold) where certain ppl gets alot of subsidies and govt suppport. see what is the outcome on attitude
devilplate
01-05-11, 10:21
nobody has the right answer
those who has been running the country for so long face so much challenges
like any football matches. fans are the ones who think that they are the coach...shouting from bench that striker no good la shld attack from left pass to left midfield la....bla blah blah but when you field these fans, they may just freeze and screw big time on ground.
same for property mkt..justclike doctor. you dont feel well, doc asks for symptoms and prescribe medicine and see if it works. nope then prescribe stronger medicine otherwise antibiotics..worstcase admit patient to hospital and put on drip
all can say this and that but when put him/her n MBT shoes and run and call the shots....this seat is hot
next measures if i am him would be (same like CHina and HK) and avoid any possible bubbl burst is either to mop up liquidity in market attractive bond issuance or raise interest rates (EMI will shoot up investors will think twice)
from previous cooling measures, MBT gving hint to all not to gear up, within your financial means and not to punt. vicious cycle....private price comes down, same for hdb. shld property prices tumble, alot of property cheonger wld hv been bunt badly like what happened to HK property investors
if MBT push too hard on HDB prices.....the impact will be on existing HDB prices. some may have used the increased wealth to do business and failed and now want Govt to help. hear so many stories of those in heartland who gave$$ to children or those who fell prey to mistresses....etc
current situation is like in chinese family third generation wants to split wealth and enjoy. first generation makes the wealth second generation maintain, third generation wants to enjoy. no hard work but all the fast ways to make $$$ like cheong property..casino
my personal take - inflation is everywhere globally not only in SG. hence govt is saving for rainy days. we see neighbouring country or in mid west (black gold) where certain ppl gets alot of subsidies and govt suppport. see what is the outcome on attitude
i enjoyed reading it...cool!:cheers6:
but MBT cannot simply up the int rates.....our monetary structure and fundamentals vy different:2cents: ;)
if you are now the PM how can you sustain the country...
1) no natural resources,
2) no labour competitive advantage unlike china,
3) no abundant land resources,
4) highly dependent on others
think of yourself running a shop selling things and you have other countries as your competitor shops selling other stuf like cooking oil, rice, etc but not your shop...how to get pl into your shop????
nowadays no more surprises
if u c central banks ard the region they now practices "advance notices" styles for you to take time to adjust.
they or economists will tell you way ahead and you adjust your business/behaviour
learnt from last crisis
read between the lines... but some see property market like stock market hoping for the best(price will continue to rise) that the main reason why sellers are on standoff or non-realistic on prices
devilplate
01-05-11, 10:30
read between the lines... but some see property market like stock market hoping for the best(price will continue to rise) that the main reason why sellers are on standoff or non-realistic on prices
self fulfilling prophecy again? nothing wrong until the musical chairs stop....hehe
self fulfilling prophecy again? nothing wrong until the musical chairs stop....hehe
but it will hit one of your countryment
unless you are not....
devilplate
01-05-11, 10:34
but it will hit one of your countryment
unless you are not....
wat to do....
ppty market....stock market....
greed and fear rules....
always be winners and losers....
there is no such thing as ALL WINNERS
if all of us boh chap...what gahmen think of us?
useless bunch of children like in chinese family ..wont last 3 generations
can we call ourselves spoilt brats
devilplate
01-05-11, 10:41
if all of us boh chap...what gahmen think of us?
useless bunch of children like in chinese family ..wont last 3 generations
can we call ourselves spoilt brats
bro....u machiam tok like a communist:scared-3:
wrong..commnunist dont tok like that.
communist = steam roller no chance 2 tok...execution only
if all of us boh chap...what gahmen think of us?
useless bunch of children like in chinese family ..wont last 3 generations
can we call ourselves spoilt brats
Historically, small city states don't last more than 3 generations haa haa....Singapore is the only and most-complete example of a fully sovereign city-state in the world today.
There is no room for error...or else no more Singapore for your children....or maybe next time u will see Singapore SAR haa haa. :doh:
i enjoyed reading it...cool!:cheers6:
but MBT cannot simply up the int rates.....our monetary structure and fundamentals vy different:2cents: ;)
interdependent economies no denial
u said it right - diff fundamentals /monetary structure
is it more inferior? can we stand srong if there's another crisis
read IMF recommendations to asian countries.
This is a million dollar question. Ask the PM.
if you are now the PM how can you sustain the country...
1) no natural resources,
2) no labour competitive advantage unlike china,
3) no abundant land resources,
4) highly dependent on others
think of yourself running a shop selling things and you have other countries as your competitor shops selling other stuf like cooking oil, rice, etc but not your shop...how to get pl into your shop????
This is the basic instinct of mankind.
wat to do....
ppty market....stock market....
greed and fear rules....
always be winners and losers....
there is no such thing as ALL WINNERS
Historically, small city states don't last more than 3 generations haa haa....Singapore is the only and most-complete example of a fully sovereign city-state in the world today.
There is no room for error...or else no more Singapore for your children....or maybe next time u will see Singapore SAR haa haa. :doh:
you didnt study the city states of ancient greece or the city states of Italy during the middle ages, that last > 3 generations ?
and you forgot about Liechtenstein & Monaco in modern times?
if you are now the PM how can you sustain the country...
1) no natural resources,
2) no labour competitive advantage unlike china,
3) no abundant land resources,
4) highly dependent on others
think of yourself running a shop selling things and you have other countries as your competitor shops selling other stuf like cooking oil, rice, etc but not your shop...how to get pl into your shop????
Appeal to regional leaders' pockets by bribing them.
Low tax regime ala ireland for companies to set up.
importantly, ensure the money entrusted by others is safe :)
ie no extradition treaty with Indonesia. pay off the leaders not to have extradition treaty.
My belief is the YOG overblown budget is just a smoke screen. That $200million will go to special fund to bribe regional leaders.
devilplate
01-05-11, 16:26
Appeal to regional leaders' pockets by bribing them.
Low tax regime ala ireland for companies to set up.
importantly, ensure the money entrusted by others is safe :)
ie no extradition treaty with Indonesia. pay off the leaders not to have extradition treaty.
My belief is the YOG overblown budget is just a smoke screen. That $200million will go to special fund to bribe regional leaders.
is tat how it works for ur country?:scared-5:
sorry for OOT.
why else Indonesian government dont want to sign extradition treaty with Singapore?
Money in own pocket more important.
Up to now, the public dont know where the Rp 6 trillion (S$850million) used to "rescue" Bank Century goes to. The rumor mill is money was used by President SBY to fund his election campaign.
So that's what I would do if I was PM. Lower taxes, attract FDI, and pay off regional leaders to be "dumb". Andy Xie was "fired" for saying the wrong things.
Anyway, back to thread. :cheers1:.
xpect:
1) interest rates to go up gradually - installments to increase. less disposable income.
2) stronger currency to manage inflation esp on imported goods
3) increasing remittances out of SG - some foreign workers may want to capitalise on their weaker home currencies agst US$
4) gahmen to release more land banks (increase supply additional benefit-gahmen able to sell at higher price
ground facts
1) less sales transactions
2) more rental transactions
3) projects TOP many up for sale and rent in OCR. asking prices >30% higher than 2010. sellers testing mkts with high prices - translate into lower transactions no
4) CCR condos increasing for sale
5) more launches - developers will not release projects if prices are expected to go up further or release units in batches. other side of the coin - show higher snap up rate - eg 32 sold out of 50 units phase 1 launch versus 300 totalproject units
current situation is like in chinese family third generation wants to split wealth and enjoy. first generation makes the wealth second generation maintain, third generation wants to enjoy. no hard work but all the fast ways to make $$$ like cheong property..casino
my personal take - inflation is everywhere globally not only in SG. hence govt is saving for rainy days. we see neighbouring country or in mid west (black gold) where certain ppl gets alot of subsidies and govt suppport. see what is the outcome on attitude
That is not true. the problem today is not about the poor or freeloader wanting to get their hands on the reserves but more like asking the government to spare some thoughts for the poor and lower income because all the wealth and growth that were generated over the last 5 years have mostly been trapped among the top 10-20% income group. And thats why the rich are getting so much richer, while the poor are drowning in inflation.
Inflation is happening everywhere, but lower income Singaporeans are suffering much more because of the imbalance of income growth in this country, coupled with imbalance supply in housing, and influx of hot money from overseas, which cause cost of housing (the biggest ticket item) to almost double in 5 years.
I think its unfair for the government to always give the excuse of saving for raining days when they opening reward themselves with million dollar salary.
For the poor and lower income group. rainy days, storm, drought etc have all come and go, and yet life for them is getting harder by the day.
Singaporeans will have to be careful about government plan to depend on our property as retirement asset, because how much our property is worth in future will ultimately depending on how much the future generation can afford. This is actually quite similar to Ponzi scheme where the new buyer will pay for the previous or earlier buyer.
One of the PAP ministers recently said that in the 80s he bought a 4 room flat for 100+K and sold it for 300+K in 8 to 10 years, and he go on to praise the government's effort in enhancing the value of HDB. But my question is, how long can such trend continue before it break? Can first time how buyer buy a $1m HDB flat? What about 20 years, 30 years, 50 years down the road?
You dont need an economist to know that this is a dangerous and unsustainable model
devilplate
04-05-11, 15:01
Hdb started less den 10k n ppl at tat time will say u crazy if u say hdb gona cost u 500k today. U forget tat our papermoney has intrinsic value of zero. Nxt time hdb buyer tat own 1mil hdb doesnt mean they r richer den today buyer buying a 500k flat
Hdb started less den 10k n ppl at tat time will say u crazy if u say hdb gona cost u 500k today. U forget tat our papermoney has intrinsic value of zero. Nxt time hdb buyer tat own 1mil hdb doesnt mean they r richer den today buyer buying a 500k flat
I always like to measure value of asset in weight of gold. e.g. 3 to 4 years ago, price of gold is about USD900+/kg and now its USD1500.
So if your wealth or value of your property didnt appreciate about around 40% in the past 3 to 4 years, that mean your growth is almost negative.
devilplate
04-05-11, 15:43
I always like to measure value of asset in weight of gold. e.g. 3 to 4 years ago, price of gold is about USD900+/kg and now its USD1500.
So if your wealth or value of your property didnt appreciate about around 40% in the past 3 to 4 years, that mean your growth is almost negative.
we r driving at the same point
however, gold is aso just a concept of wealth preservation....the 'value' of gold is similar to the 'value' of our papermoney :2cents:
tell me....y gold worth 1500 now? :beats-me-man: :D
btw, silver seen a big correction from almost 50.....hope nobody kena burnt;)
devilplate
04-05-11, 15:47
I always like to measure value of asset in weight of gold. e.g. 3 to 4 years ago, price of gold is about USD900+/kg and now its USD1500.
So if your wealth or value of your property didnt appreciate about around 40% in the past 3 to 4 years, that mean your growth is almost negative.
just to make a slight correction....gold in 2009 was about750.....hehe....lower den 900;) ....so in fact....gold px has doubled.....
stalingrad
04-05-11, 16:49
I always like to measure value of asset in weight of gold. e.g. 3 to 4 years ago, price of gold is about USD900+/kg and now its USD1500.
So if your wealth or value of your property didnt appreciate about around 40% in the past 3 to 4 years, that mean your growth is almost negative.
haha, usd1500 per kg? that would be a great bargain.
the price old gold is usd1500 per ounce.
[quote=Jadey]That is not true. the problem today is not about the poor or freeloader wanting to get their hands on the reserves but more like asking the government to spare some thoughts for the poor and lower income because all the wealth and growth that were generated over the last 5 years have mostly been trapped among the top 10-20% income group. And thats why the rich are getting so much richer, while the poor are drowning in inflation.
Inflation is happening everywhere, but lower income Singaporeans are suffering much more because of the imbalance of income growth in this country, coupled with imbalance supply in housing, and influx of hot money from overseas, which cause cost of housing (the biggest ticket item) to almost double in 5 years. do we hv ppl who live without a meal for a day? hear of stories of ingenuine ways of taking out insurance monies. but for what? unless they or we want a trendier lifestyle. Middle income grp aspires for higher income lifestyle. Higher income grp wants Rich&Famous lifestyle. so lower income wants?
but i must say that medical is something the gahmen needs to change and hv more clinics. more to be built? what if those clinics/hospitals later turn into white elephants?
I think its unfair for the government to always give the excuse of saving for raining days when they opening reward themselves with million dollar salary. ask those ppl on what they really want then you see the real agenda? more dough like in other countries and not work....
For the poor and lower income group. rainy days, storm, drought etc have all come and go, and yet life for them is getting harder by the day. hv to define what are they looking for and deem as hard life.
Singaporeans will have to be careful about government plan to depend on our property as retirement asset, because how much our property is worth in future will ultimately depending on how much the future generation can afford. This is actually quite similar to Ponzi scheme where the new buyer will pay for the previous or earlier buyer. hence the cooling measures but need stronger antibiotics. article in ST today talked abt lower prices next yr. or probably we see prices lower this yr
One of the PAP ministers recently said that in the 80s he bought a 4 room flat for 100+K and sold it for 300+K in 8 to 10 years, and he go on to praise the government's effort in enhancing the value of HDB. But my question is, how long can such trend continue before it break? Can first time how buyer buy a $1m HDB flat? What about 20 years, 30 years, 50 years down the road? same with other developed/developing countries. do we want our properties to remain at 100+K in next 20 yrs?
You dont need an economist to know that this is a dangerous and unsustainable model[/quote]
Singaporeans will have to be careful about government plan to depend on our property as retirement asset, because how much our property is worth in future will ultimately depending on how much the future generation can afford. This is actually quite similar to Ponzi scheme where the new buyer will pay for the previous or earlier buyer.
Only a certain group of Singaporeans can depend on property as retirement asset. If need cash, they need to sell their asset to tide them through. After selling, they still need a roof over their head thus need to downgrade. However, those who are already staying in 2 room or 3 room HDB can hardly downgrade further... so how to consider it an asset if they can't even change it for $$$. They can rent from govt but this number will probably grow with the years so is there an end or is there a better solution?
I hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...:doh:
Allthepies
04-05-11, 20:36
I hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...:doh:
i agree with u. nowadays people in singapore like to compare poor people with rich people :D they don't realise that when compare to other countries poor, our poor is much much better already!
tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining? :D
tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining? :D
Good one. These people are losers. You should post this in the anti govt forums. But prepared to be bash..
I hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...:doh:As much as I agree that there are not many poor people in our country who qualify as poor as in the 3rd world country, I think you are using a 3rd world yard stick to measure a 1st world country. I have nothing against what you say concerning people demanding more but would like to add that the problems we face now is more 1st world than 3rd world. We cannot expect us to complain how come there is no water in our wells outside our homes because those problems are long gone.
However I do agree on the fact that people are not happy cause they want more and that the younger ones nowadays are just so pampered... :spliff:
As much as I agree that there are not many poor people in our country who qualify as poor as in the 3rd world country, I think you are using a 3rd world yard stick to measure a 1st world country. I have nothing against what you say concerning people demanding more but would like to add that the problems we face now is more 1st world than 3rd world. We cannot expect us to complain how come there is no water in our wells outside our homes because those problems are long gone.
However I do agree on the fact that people are not happy cause they want more and that the younger ones nowadays are just so pampered... :spliff:
just one question. opp has a list of unhappy thing they go against the ruling party. do u think all the issue will be settled if they are voted in? the situation will be the same or worse!!! so we really have to repent for 5 years!!
just one question. opp has a list of unhappy thing they go against the ruling party. do u think all the issue will be settled if they are voted in? the situation will be the same or worse!!! so we really have to repent for 5 years!!Honestly I think there are only 2 opp parties capable of delivering their pre-election promises. :)
just one question. opp has a list of unhappy thing they go against the ruling party. do u think all the issue will be settled if they are voted in? the situation will be the same or worse!!! so we really have to repent for 5 years!!
always doubt when politicians promise the sky
we always weigh the least evil of two.
downside risk greater if opp is voted in, as evidenced in many countries recently
those who prefer opp have personal agenda. Hardly see those who live the musketeer chant - one for all and all for one
devilplate
04-05-11, 21:32
Oredi got vandalism happening.... Can imagine wat will happen if opp grow stronger....
U want immediate death or slow cancer?:hell-hath-no-fury:
Oredi got vandalism happening.... Can imagine wat will happen if opp grow stronger....
U want immediate death or slow cancer?:hell-hath-no-fury:Both also don't want.... :doh:
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:09
Both also don't want.... :doh:
got chance to find a cure for slow cancer;)
i agree with u. nowadays people in singapore like to compare poor people with rich people :D they don't realise that when compare to other countries poor, our poor is much much better already!
tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining? :D
You need to visit the one room rental flats. There are quite a number of poor people around.
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:28
You need to visit the one room rental flats. There are quite a number of poor people around.
but they dun type in front of computer and shouting POOR
we r toking abt those arent really poor but making the most noise!
I see many forummers arguing that our poor are actually far far better than the poor in some other countries. I would have to agree totally on that but I would say this is Singapore and pls do not always compare us to other countries poorer than us. If want to compare fairly, then also compare with countries better off than us. If not, don't compare...
I'd like to reiterate that this is Singapore and we've come a long way! The problems facing us today cannot be based on the model in 1959. We've all progressed (if I dare define progression like that). We are looking at different level of living standards. We have moved!!! I would feel for the old lady picking up cardboards in the market places because I don't need to do that hard work for a living. However in a country when everyone is picking card boards, she'll probably not have my sympathy!!! Just my opinion! :sleep:
Having said that, I am still for the agreement that we must always treasure and appreciate what we have today because we usually have sufficient to meet our daily needs! :cheers1:Cheers!
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:52
vy funny...we r toking about those losers who arent really tat poor and yet making the most complaints lah:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
when confronted....those losers will tok machiam like so noble and start saying many poor ppl in rental flats...picking up cardboards.....ask those losers to do volunteering work lah....see whether they siam anot:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
vy funny...we r toking about those losers who arent really tat poor and yet making the most complaints lah:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
when confronted....those losers will tok machiam like so noble and start saying many poor ppl in rental flats...picking up cardboards.....ask those losers to do volunteering work lah....see whether they siam anot:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:You lost me??? :confused: I am reading all the arguments and offered my opinions and now kana called a loser??? Huh? Well if it makes you happy, ok I am a loser but still dun know what u are saying!!! :spliff:
Pls read carefully.... I am not in that school of thought saying there are many poor in our society, if that was your argument!!! :doh:
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:57
You lost me??? :confused: I am reading all the arguments and offered my opinions and now kana called a loser??? Huh? Well if it makes you happy, ok I am a loser but still dun know what u are saying!!! :spliff:
Pls read carefully.... I am not in that school of thought saying there are many poor in our society, if that was your argument!!! :doh:
i din quote u wor
its not up to me to judge u....coz i duno even noe u
u judge urself better;)
So if Tampines lose GRC to opp, would developers become more positive about the property market??? The sound on ground is suggesting some GRCs are in deep trouble.... even SM score own goal... so what's next???
Wild Falcon
05-05-11, 10:18
But at least you're heard. What makes u think suddenly the PM says sorry, wage adjustment increment, promise no increase in GST, HDB income ceiling to be reviewed just days before election? Do you really think if there is no election and ZERO opposition bringing up issues like cost of living and the old people collecting cardboxes during rallies? I've been to many developed countries, and I dare say, I've never seen old people being treated so badly before.
Do you know our CPF gives one of the worst, or if not the worst returns compared to any other retirement funds in the world? Do you know when ministers increase their salaries, no one speak up but the NCMP?
And I notice many in this forum are still in the wealth-accumulation stage, therefore not as compassionate (i.e. only at 1st level of Maslow's hierachy of needs). But it's about time Singaporeans move forward as a nation, and realise money and GDP growth is not everything - diginity and the ability to voice our opinions is important as well. Who wants a government who calls them "daft"? Surely we must have some pride and dignity? Or money money money at the expense of humanity issit?
The reality is for the older generation, you have to ask yourself, why do you need total domination by one party with no alternative voices and no competition? A monopoly is never healthy and results in complacency. The opposition cannot come up with concrete policies because they don't have the entire civil service gathering information for them. In fact, info in Singapore can be scarce, e.g. no one knows SINGAPOREAN's employment rate. But at least they come up with some ideas - which can be discussed and debated.
And fear-mongering is one of the worst election tactic. Losing a few seats will not be the end of the world. The only thing to fear is fear itself.
just one question. opp has a list of unhappy thing they go against the ruling party. do u think all the issue will be settled if they are voted in? the situation will be the same or worse!!! so we really have to repent for 5 years!!
But at least you're heard. What makes u think suddenly the PM says sorry, wage adjustment increment, promise no increase in GST, HDB income ceiling to be reviewed just days before election? Do you really think if there is no election and ZERO opposition bringing up issues like cost of living and the old people collecting cardboxes during rallies? I've been to many developed countries, and I dare say, I've never seen old people being treated so badly before.
Exactly what LTK said yesterday in his rally speech! Why PM apologized? Its coz the opp are checking and holding the incumbent accountable! :spliff:
devilplate
05-05-11, 10:26
looks like majority only expects opp to win 1 or 2 GRCs
devilplate
05-05-11, 10:28
Exactly what LTK said yesterday in his rally speech! Why PM apologized? Its coz the opp are checking and holding the incumbent accountable! :spliff:
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....
hahahaha
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....
hahahahaThat's what opp do lor.... make sure the incumbent right or left also wrong!!! :D But as a citizen, I'll surely prefer the PM to apologize rather than not apologizing! We need our ministers to admit to mistakes.
MM, SM and WKS came in too hard. PM has to soften it. He is perfectionist but not to perfect this round.
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....
hahahaha
looks like majority only expects opp to win 1 or 2 GRCsAgreed!!! So far I've heard families (not just one or two people) all voting for opp in hotly contested GRCs like Bishan and Aljunied!!! History in the making!!! :D So much about votes being secret!!! :tsk-tsk:
devilplate
05-05-11, 10:41
Agreed!!! So far I've heard families (not just one or two people) all voting for opp in hotly contested GRCs like Bishan and Aljunied!!! History in the making!!! :D So much about votes being secret!!! :tsk-tsk:
just hope for the best....
i really naively hope tat co-driver and driver can co-exist in the parliament
dunwan to see unnecssary cat and dog fights in future....very detrimental to our SG reputation as being a country with stable govt
just hope for the best....
i really naively hope tat co-driver and driver can co-exist in the parliament
dunwan to see unnecssary cat and dog fights in future....very detrimental to our SG reputation as being a country with stable govtJackpot again!!! I really don't like the parliamentary situation in Taiwan... Can't imagine MBT climbing onto table to punch LTK who reacts quickly by picking up a chair to defend himself!!! But then again I don't think our ministers will resort to such violent behavior lah!!! They know better than to do that in public!!! :D
This is not new in a lot of the parliament round the world.
just hope for the best....
i really naively hope tat co-driver and driver can co-exist in the parliament
dunwan to see unnecssary cat and dog fights in future....very detrimental to our SG reputation as being a country with stable govt
devilplate
05-05-11, 11:13
This is not new in a lot of the parliament round the world.
if its not new....den y so many ppl still want opposition to gain more power?
ask urself....wat makes SG attractive to foreign investors?
devilplate
05-05-11, 11:22
Jackpot again!!! I really don't like the parliamentary situation in Taiwan... Can't imagine MBT climbing onto table to punch LTK who reacts quickly by picking up a chair to defend himself!!! But then again I don't think our ministers will resort to such violent behavior lah!!! They know better than to do that in public!!! :D
catty and doggy fights doesnt always means violent lor...but hope no more childish acts by both side supporters....vandalism is jus the beginning
expect deeper.....underhand.....scrupulous politics.....expect more juicy news....expects everyday is an election day
But at least you're heard. What makes u think suddenly the PM says sorry, wage adjustment increment, promise no increase in GST, HDB income ceiling to be reviewed just days before election?
actually brother, GST may not be that bad. this is my reasoning:
I remember I have a friend who opens a nightclub. One day, he invited us to his club for drinks to give him some business. So we went on a Friday night. The crowd was so so only.
So we ask him how he survives? He explains to us that his other source of income comes from those big time business man. Usually these group of biz man will ask him to balloon their bills to an astronomical amount. I think you know the reason lah.. so for each bill out, my friend will get a percentage cut.
another case is on my first job as a programmer. I have to maintain the programmes for so many "sister" companies because the Chinese boss shrewdly time it to avoid paying taxes.
I am sure there are a lot of cases like this. So I think GST is good to nail these group of crooks and protect law abiding working class citizens like us.
Ask yourself if you ever had dinner with a group of people, the one that is always paying is the business men. But of course he is not so generous lah, he will colllect your share from you...
Good citizen like us must of course benefit lah by reducing the personal income tax...
Next, people will ask that the poor and the retirees are already not paying income tax, it does not benefit them what..... another headache..
devilplate
05-05-11, 11:39
for every policy, there is always a reason to counterattack
devilplate
05-05-11, 11:40
y we nid income tax in the first plc? y gst? y erp?
y individual countries got their own govt....y not united as one?
y goto build upmilitary defence?
y cant be world peace?:p
Regulators
05-05-11, 13:14
People like ay123 who only want one voice in parliament speaks of complacency and the lack of motivation to improve. Imagine a day without Sylvia Lim, Low Thia Kiang and Chiam See Tong in parliament, people will just listen to one side and get more brainwashed into believing that everything is good for them, very dangerous in my opinion. If PAP is suggesting a one party rule forever, why don't they just change it to a dictatorship with one family ruling the country? They can still have their current system in place even if it is a dictatorship, right? Are they calling our country a democracy and yet have 100% say in everything, how to have the cake and eat it? True democracy can only take place if we have more opposition in parliament, it is as simple as that and nothing further to argue. It is also not about educational level, but moreso a heart to serve people. John Major who has only 'O' level has done more good for the people than Tony Blair who is a graduate of Oxford.
But at least you're heard. What makes u think suddenly the PM says sorry, wage adjustment increment, promise no increase in GST, HDB income ceiling to be reviewed just days before election? Do you really think if there is no election and ZERO opposition bringing up issues like cost of living and the old people collecting cardboxes during rallies? I've been to many developed countries, and I dare say, I've never seen old people being treated so badly before.
Do you know our CPF gives one of the worst, or if not the worst returns compared to any other retirement funds in the world? Do you know when ministers increase their salaries, no one speak up but the NCMP?
And I notice many in this forum are still in the wealth-accumulation stage, therefore not as compassionate (i.e. only at 1st level of Maslow's hierachy of needs). But it's about time Singaporeans move forward as a nation, and realise money and GDP growth is not everything - diginity and the ability to voice our opinions is important as well. Who wants a government who calls them "daft"? Surely we must have some pride and dignity? Or money money money at the expense of humanity issit?
The reality is for the older generation, you have to ask yourself, why do you need total domination by one party with no alternative voices and no competition? A monopoly is never healthy and results in complacency. The opposition cannot come up with concrete policies because they don't have the entire civil service gathering information for them. In fact, info in Singapore can be scarce, e.g. no one knows SINGAPOREAN's employment rate. But at least they come up with some ideas - which can be discussed and debated.
And fear-mongering is one of the worst election tactic. Losing a few seats will not be the end of the world. The only thing to fear is fear itself.
Jackpot again!!! I really don't like the parliamentary situation in Taiwan... Can't imagine MBT climbing onto table to punch LTK who reacts quickly by picking up a chair to defend himself!!! But then again I don't think our ministers will resort to such violent behavior lah!!! They know better than to do that in public!!! :D
LTK probably will behave in such. look at his lao ah beng look
Regulators
05-05-11, 13:35
At least LTK looks more handsome than people like Ang Mong Seng, Wong Kan Seng and many more :D
LTK probably will behave in such. look at his lao ah beng look
Allthepies
05-05-11, 13:36
I see many forummers arguing that our poor are actually far far better than the poor in some other countries. I would have to agree totally on that but I would say this is Singapore and pls do not always compare us to other countries poorer than us. If want to compare fairly, then also compare with countries better off than us. If not, don't compare...
I'd like to reiterate that this is Singapore and we've come a long way! The problems facing us today cannot be based on the model in 1959. We've all progressed (if I dare define progression like that). We are looking at different level of living standards. We have moved!!! I would feel for the old lady picking up cardboards in the market places because I don't need to do that hard work for a living. However in a country when everyone is picking card boards, she'll probably not have my sympathy!!! Just my opinion! :sleep:
Having said that, I am still for the agreement that we must always treasure and appreciate what we have today because we usually have sufficient to meet our daily needs! :cheers1:Cheers!
I'm comparing our poor to the poor in Hong Kong (more developed and advanced than us) not to third world countries.
Actually that is beside the points; the main point here is there is this group of Singaporeans who are using the poor to advance their on agenda; complaining that the poor are left behind e.t.c. actually i suspect this pool of Singaporeans which still have the time to type and complain on the internet forum are not really poor/hungry/or left behind. :D
devilplate
05-05-11, 13:38
When opp grows stronger n more threatening, pap show internal cracks n conflicts..... Sian..... I dun wish to b caught in this revolutionary era.....
Regulators
05-05-11, 13:44
What personal agenda are you referring to? Many in this forum who question PAP policies and speak up for the needy singaporeans are actually better off voting for the PAP coz PAP favours the rich.
I'm comparing our poor to the poor in Hong Kong (more developed and advanced than us) not to third world countries.
Actually that is beside the points; the main point here is there is this group of Singaporeans who are using the poor to advance their on agenda; complaining that the poor are left behind e.t.c. actually i suspect this pool of Singaporeans which still have the time to type and complain on the internet forum are not really poor/hungry/or left behind. :D
Allthepies
05-05-11, 13:44
When opp grows stronger n more threatening, pap show internal cracks n conflicts..... Sian..... I dun wish to b caught in this revolutionary era.....
the international investors have already made their stand; they sense the opposition have strong support and they are starting to pull out of singapore stock market; 3 straight days of losses :scared-3:
Regulators
05-05-11, 13:46
many of these intl investors have no loyalty to singapore anyway, so what do they care?
the international investors have already made their stand; they sense the opposition have strong support and they are starting to pull out of singapore stock market; 3 straight days of losses :scared-3:
Allthepies
05-05-11, 13:49
What personal agenda are you referring to? Many in this forum who question PAP policies and speak up for the needy singaporeans are actually better off voting for the PAP coz PAP favours the rich.
eg: some complains that house is too expensive/not affordable for the poor.
=> hidden agenda, they want prices to fall not becos they care for the poor but so that they can go in and buy cheap. they want $8K limit to be raised so that they themselves can buy. the poor don't really earn more than $8K per month.
I'm comparing our poor to the poor in Hong Kong (more developed and advanced than us) not to third world countries.
Actually that is beside the points; the main point here is there is this group of Singaporeans who are using the poor to advance their on agenda; complaining that the poor are left behind e.t.c. actually i suspect this pool of Singaporeans which still have the time to type and complain on the internet forum are not really poor/hungry/or left behind. :DExactly like what I said... most of the complainers actually can afford the HDB. They are only borrowing the voices of the poor to further their cause!!! :spliff:
toiletsiao
05-05-11, 13:52
the international investors have already made their stand; they sense the opposition have strong support and they are starting to pull out of singapore stock market; 3 straight days of losses :scared-3:
i think STI's fall past few days are in line with SSE and HSI's movement la..also most of asia stock indices are down these few days..like wise for commodities and precious metals like silver...dont think STI's fall is because of the above u mentioned..
Allthepies
05-05-11, 13:53
many of these intl investors have no loyalty to singapore anyway, so what do they care?
if investors have no confidence/lose confidence in singapore's government/people, they will pull their businesses/money out. who suffer most in the end? the people at the lowest end loh.
eg: some complains that house is too expensive/not affordable for the poor.
=> hidden agenda, they want prices to fall not becos they care for the poor but so that they can go in and buy cheap. they want $8K limit to be raised so that they themselves can buy. the poor don't really earn more than $8K per month.Agreed! They play dirty but isn't this the name of the game? Don't many people also say that some election candidates don't have substance but all playing the politics game to get into parliament? :spliff:
Allthepies
05-05-11, 13:56
Agreed! They play dirty but isn't this the name of the game? Don't many people also say that some election candidates don't have substance but all playing the politics game to get into parliament? :spliff:
yup i totally agree :D politics is a very dirty game!
property stocks already falling, mass-market condos expected to fall if income ceiling up 10k?
eg: some complains that house is too expensive/not affordable for the poor.
=> hidden agenda, they want prices to fall not becos they care for the poor but so that they can go in and buy cheap. they want $8K limit to be raised so that they themselves can buy. the poor don't really earn more than $8K per month.
I agree with your view on the first point. Those who miss the boat and everyday KPKB. I have many friends in this category.
The $8k is for for the sandwich middle income group.
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....
hahahaha
my malaysian colleague says the PM apologise for the orchard road flooding :confused: .. then Nazib must kneel down and beg for forgiveness becasue the flood is usually caused by the developer/contractors dumping the waste into the river and choke up the water flow...:)
Agreed!!! So far I've heard families (not just one or two people) all voting for opp in hotly contested GRCs like Bishan and Aljunied!!! History in the making!!! :D So much about votes being secret!!! :tsk-tsk:
My friend's families voting for Bishan River... hehe..
Different strokes for different folks.
There are people who are financially free who wants opposition, there are people who are financially free who doesn't want opposition. I think the motivation for each group is different. It is best encapsulated in Chen Show Mao's speech on how Wizard of Oz relates to your voting decision.
For me, I think opposition is essential in a Parliament.
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....
hahahaha
when they realised using the hard approach (threatening) don't work.
so now they tried to use the soft approach (apologize)
i say: dont wait til problems surface and then say sorry.
its an honest mistake,lets move on with my millions paycheck..:D
They are very confident of winning the election? Think they have all the data on hand to have such confidence. Since that is the case, more should vote for opposition to "humble" them more? :p
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/shim.gif
GE: PM Lee believes PAP will do well in Saturday's polls
Posted: 05 May 2011 1058 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpljkuCj.jpg Photos 1 of 1 http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/dotline_240.gif
PM Lee Hsien Loong http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/shim.gif Special Report http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/shim.gif • Vote 2011 (http://www.ge.sg/)
SINGAPORE : Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong believes the People's Action Party will do well in Saturday's General Election.
However, the party is not taking anyone's vote for granted.
Mr Lee was speaking to reporters after visiting several parts of Ang Mo Kio GRC.
Mr Lee said he would like to ask Singaporeans to support the PAP and think about their own future and that of their children, and make the best choice.
Asked about the likely result in Aljunied GRC, Mr Lee believes the PAP will win, but added that the fight would be a tough one.
He said the candidates and supporters in Aljunied GRC are in good spirits and the fight is still going on.
He said he would be dropping in at the PAP's Aljunied GRC on Thursday night to emphasise the point that the party is fully behind the battle for that division.
Mr Lee commented on rumours which had been spread around using stickers which said the GST would be increased after the election.
The prime minister said the party has decided to print and distribute brochures and additional reading materials to emphasise that the government is not increasing the GST after the polls.
- CNA/al
My friend's families voting for Bishan River... hehe..
Different strokes for different folks.
There are people who are financially free who wants opposition, there are people who are financially free who doesn't want opposition. I think the motivation for each group is different. It is best encapsulated in Chen Show Mao's speech on how Wizard of Oz relates to your voting decision.
For me, I think opposition is essential in a Parliament.
property stocks already falling, mass-market condos expected to fall if income ceiling up 10k?
...then I will have to repent for the next 5 years... :banghead:
Vote so that developers can be more positive about the ppty market... :D
kingkong1984
05-05-11, 22:34
Either way, max price now with little upside only.
Next will be more and more EC sites near mrt until developer surrender and bid at 250 to 300 psf, sell at 650 to 700 psf.
Buy for self stay is ok as it can only get more expansive for those that are on market.
Either way, max price now with little upside only.
Next will be more and more EC sites near mrt until developer surrender and bid at 250 to 300 psf, sell at 650 to 700 psf.
Buy for self stay is ok as it can only get more expansive for those that are on market.Actually can buy EC that are more than 10yrs old and its a cheaper alternative to private condo...:tsk-tsk: Don't have to wait for developers to surrender:D
kingkong1984
06-05-11, 04:41
Actually can buy EC that are more than 10yrs old and its a cheaper alternative to private condo...:tsk-tsk: Don't have to wait for developers to surrender:D
Hmm... New versus old. Second hand is not ideal to some.
But good point made. HDB up graders to EC very likely now.
The GST may not be going up. But they will get the $$$ in other ways. They didn't pledge not to increase ERP right?
The GST may not be going up. But they will get the $$$ in other ways. They didn't pledge not to increase ERP right?They didn't pledge a lot of stuff... even for GST, they also didn't pledge. PM only said its unlikely to go up coz blar blar blar... no promises made coz they know if make promise must deliver otherwise kana slapped by co-driver...
The GST may not be going up. But they will get the $$$ in other ways. They didn't pledge not to increase ERP right?
Don't forget public transport fare review will be in 4thQ 2011. :rolleyes:
Yeah and COE small cars still going north and big cars still at 56k... :doh:. Someone working in LTA just told me the govt will continue to cut the COE quantum in the next review coz no. of scrapped vehicles dropped! Will COE return to $100k again??? :scared-1:
devilplate
06-05-11, 09:22
Yeah and COE small cars still going north and big cars still at 56k... :doh:. Someone working in LTA just told me the govt will continue to cut the COE quantum in the next review coz no. of scrapped vehicles dropped! Will COE return to $100k again??? :scared-1:
tats good news
HOORAY TO A GREENER FUTURE!:cheers6:
devilplate
06-05-11, 09:23
They didn't pledge a lot of stuff... even for GST, they also didn't pledge. PM only said its unlikely to go up coz blar blar blar... no promises made coz they know if make promise must deliver otherwise kana slapped by co-driver...
only bitch slap.....man fight:p
devilplate
06-05-11, 09:25
Don't forget public transport fare review will be in 4thQ 2011. :rolleyes:
oil px somehow corrected for the time being:)
lets hope for the best;)
Since cannot fight in car otherwise sure buang... so slap will do... :D
only bitch slap.....man fight:p
oil px somehow corrected for the time being:)
lets hope for the best;)The response time of petrol stations to reflect the oil px correction is usually quick but there is still no change at the pump stations... Doubt the best is soon!!!
devilplate
06-05-11, 09:43
The response time of petrol stations to reflect the oil px correction is usually quick but there is still no change at the pump stations... Doubt the best is soon!!!
lower petrol px is secondary....
for eg. lower oil px will at least prevent PUB to up their rates in the near future;)
lower petrol px is secondary....
for eg. lower oil px will at least prevent PUB to up their rates in the near future;)Agreed but the savings from PUB is probably very little. If you drive daily, you may save more than $40 a month on petrol compared with utilities??? Maybe I use more car than utilities... :D
devilplate
06-05-11, 11:46
Agreed but the savings from PUB is probably very little. If you drive daily, you may save more than $40 a month on petrol compared with utilities??? Maybe I use more car than utilities... :D
we cant complain if we can afford a car rite?
PUB bills meant alot for the poor wor....
PS: me no holy saint....:ashamed1: :D
we cant complain if we can afford a car rite?
PUB bills meant alot for the poor wor....
PS: me no holy saint....:ashamed1: :DI used to afford car when fuel prices were much lower.. now :doh:. Whatever.. agreed that PUB bills meant alot for the poor... Bravo!:spliff:
Since cannot fight in car otherwise sure buang... so slap will do... :D
One PAP driver and 3 PAP passengers against one Opposition in the car. How can Opposition fight with the driver?
Since cannot fight in car otherwise sure buang... so slap will do... :D
One PAP driver and 3 PAP passengers against One Opposition in the car. How to fight?
devilplate
06-05-11, 16:41
One PAP driver and 3 PAP passengers against One Opposition in the car. How to fight?
jio PM Lee one on one lor
jio PM Lee one on one lorThen PM will bring his ka knia to fight one on one on his behalf... he is si fu so no need to fight de... :D
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