View Full Version : Plans to 'revisit' HDB income ceiling
May 3, 2011
Plans to 'revisit' HDB income ceiling
By Teo Wan Gek
COUPLES who are about to bust the $8,000 monthly income ceiling to qualify for new Housing Board (HDB) flats may be in for some relief, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong hinted yesterday.
With incomes rising amid a tight labour market, Mr Lee said he expected wages to go up this year. The Government would 'revisit' the cap, which was set at $8,000 in 1994.
'The income ceiling is something which we are studying. We will revisit it again after the effects of the current round of measures become clearer.'
The Government had introduced several rounds of cooling measures to dampen speculative demand for property, the latest in January.
PM Lee did not promise that the cap would go up, but his comments made it clear he was sympathetic to the plight of couples whose incomes went up just above the ceiling. These couples have complained they are barred from buying new HDB flats but cannot afford private property.
Mr Lee noted that some couples are marrying later, with some in their mid-30s who might be reaching the top of the income cap. Some were within the income ceiling while applying for a new build-to-order (BTO) flat, but a promotion or pay rise while waiting for the flat to be ready could tip them over.
'So when they apply for BTO flats and they don't get them, and a promotion or an increment may be on the way... what should normally be good news for celebration becomes a cause for anxiety because they may be promoted out of range (of the income cap),' he told reporters at a media conference.
The affordability of HDB flats has emerged as a top issue in this election. The opposition has also said that new HDB flat prices are rising faster than median incomes.
Young couples who are eligible to buy new flats have also complained of long waits for their homes under the BTO scheme, which lets couples book their flats before they are built.
On the long wait for flats, Mr Lee said that this year, the HDB is building a record number of 22,000 new flats under the BTO scheme.
On high prices, he acknowledged that many first-time buyers could not afford private property and did not have enough savings to pay the cash component for a HDB resale flat. Some relied on parents to help out. This was why the Government would look at the income ceiling again.
Last August, the Government raised the income cap for HDB's Design, Build and Sell Scheme - for the top tier of HDB flats - from $8,000 to $10,000.
'We considered whether to do it for the other HDB flats such as the BTO but we haven't done it yet because the property market was very hot and we didn't want to add more pressure on the BTO flat queue or, for that matter, on the resale flat queue,' he said, explaining that a change in the income ceiling would also affect the eligibility for other HDB loans.
http://www.straitstimes.com/PrimeNews/Story/STIStory_663986.html
They are now visiting some policies which was set 17 years ago???? Finally!!!! What was the HDB price to annual household income in 1994? What is that ratio today? Is it because it is time to review that ratio because of inferior numbers or its purely because of election?
PM said the ceiling cap will be reviewed after the effects from the latest CM come in next month (conveniently after election). Will it ultimately be changed?
kingkong1984
04-05-11, 21:15
Lifting the income ceiling is to solve the EC problem of oversupply.
Give more EC, then poor pricing and sales, then lift the ceiling, it's all related.
Then if want to push up condo prices, stop EC supply and push out condo plots.
The future will be income ceiling raised for EC, then they are soak up, then stop EC supply.
They are now visiting some policies which was set 17 years ago???? Finally!!!! What was the HDB price to annual household income in 1994? What is that ratio today? Is it because it is time to review that ratio because of inferior numbers or its purely because of election?
PM said the ceiling cap will be reviewed after the effects from the latest CM come in next month (conveniently after election). Will it ultimately be changed?
mbt said to review after GE means if i am voted out.....no more review
Sure need to revise ceiling cap.
Otherwise how to price hdb higher?
If HDB is not priced higher, how to support higher price private :D
mbt said to review after GE means if i am voted out.....no more reviewNo worries lah... opp will slap the driver to remind them of the promises they've made so whoever takes over will still have to review it lor... :D Unless no opp win any seat then it is a totally different story!!!
The side effects of higher income ceiling I think will be higher prices. I think it needs to be sharpened that the higher income ceiling should apply perhaps to the bigger units like 5 room, DBSS and EC, such that this group cannot cannibalize on the provision for basic 3 or 4 rooms.
rattydrama
05-05-11, 00:15
and probably the demand on rental will soften.
devilplate
05-05-11, 00:17
Sure need to revise ceiling cap.
Otherwise how to price hdb higher?
If HDB is not priced higher, how to support higher price private :D
u got it....:D
ppl r digging their own grave:D
The side effects of higher income ceiling I think will be higher prices. I think it needs to be sharpened that the higher income ceiling should apply perhaps to the bigger units like 5 room, DBSS and EC, such that this group cannot cannibalize on the provision for basic 3 or 4 rooms.
i think if supply meets demand, price will remain relatively stable. I think its more of if there are enough supply. Sometimes i ask y they so uncreative? If always got balloting super over subscribed , cant they change the system? If not the demand will just keep piling. Leading to more pple kanchong to join in the bid. I think this kind of system will be good for new towns like pungol n sengkang where there are more plots of land.
Open Order book in a area. See how much pple apply for it. Then customise building ratio for number of units. Its like customer telling supplier i need 2 tons of goods. Then supplier say i only got 1 ton...... next wk i open shop then u order again......
mbt said to review after GE means if i am voted out.....no more review
den the incoming hdb minister can carry on the review
den the incoming hdb minister can carry on the reviewWow... can see that there are many who wants the income ceiling to be reviewed and also those who want the minister out!!! :D Hmmm...
If this is implemented, it will soften the 99LH mass market condos sales by a lot. I would have bought a BTO or an EC if not for this out-dated ruling. In the end I spent so much $ to get a pte condo instead.
If this is implemented, it will soften the 99LH mass market condos sales by a lot. I would have bought a BTO or an EC if not for this out-dated ruling. In the end I spent so much $ to get a pte condo instead.Agreed... :scared-4: You echoed the voices of many Singaporeans....
As I already said, govt owns lots and lots of endless(literally) OCR land (sufficient to house >10m population in Singapore?). On these, HDB flats and OCR private condos will be built. Raising HDB income ceiling and building more HDB flats means OCR private condos will have less buyers and cannibalize OCR private condos demand->sales and ultimately prices.
For investment, CCR is safest bet as govt has little land to supply to affect the "supply" equation (vs large "endless" "supply" in OCR). Living environment, your surroundings, your neighbours etc also better. Security generally also better since you will be living besides all those "who's who". Don't need to fight for car park lots with your neighbours (generally true in CCR prime & luxury condos, not those MM estate and full of MM units).
For own stay, CCR is in central area and well-connected and convenient to most places you need to go in singapore and short distance, particularly good schools, so if you can afford, live in CCR also better.
After election, more supply for HDB flats and OCR private condos will come to satisfy demands and meet expectations of the 90% of singaporeans! (10% for OCR condos, 80% for HDB flat owners and upgraders!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices. Optimistically at best: Price stagnant. Persimistically?
If this is implemented, it will soften the 99LH mass market condos sales by a lot. I would have bought a BTO or an EC if not for this out-dated ruling. In the end I spent so much $ to get a pte condo instead.
The remaining 10% living in CCR, well, the data I provided shows that completion supply in 2012 will be the lowest at 1 thousand+ since this whole decade. So very low supply vs increasing demand because of economy improving all over the world and with the richer getting much much richer and faster..... (plus the fact that the gap between CCR vs OCR private condos are at their lowest since don't know how many decades!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices of HDBs, OCR condos, CCR condos.
What will I do if I am in these position?
1) If own HDB, quickly sell to upgrade to OCR/CCR condos since the gap are quite narrow now (what many are already or had done up to now).
2) If own OCR condo, upgrade to CCR since gap narrowest in don't know how many decades!
3) If own CCR condo, buy more CCR condos! :cheers1:
As I already said, govt owns lots and lots of endless(literally) OCR land (sufficient to house >10m population in Singapore?). On these, HDB flats and OCR private condos will be built. Raising HDB income ceiling and building more HDB flats means OCR private condos will have less buyers and cannibalize OCR private condos demand->sales and ultimately prices.
For investment, CCR is safest bet as govt has little land to supply to affect the "supply" equation (vs large "endless" "supply" in OCR). Living environment, your surroundings, your neighbours etc also better. Security generally also better since you will be living besides all those "who's who". Don't need to fight for car park lots with your neighbours (generally true in CCR prime & luxury condos, not those MM estate and full of MM units).
For own stay, CCR is in central area and well-connected and convenient to most places you need to go in singapore and short distance, particularly good schools, so if you can afford, live in CCR also better.
After election, more supply for HDB flats and OCR private condos will come to satisfy demands and meet expectations of the 90% of singaporeans! (10% for OCR condos, 80% for HDB flat owners and upgraders!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices. Optimistically at best: Price stagnant. Persimistically?
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:02
The remaining 10% living in CCR, well, the data I provided shows that completion supply in 2012 will be the lowest at 1 thousand+ since this whole decade. So very low supply vs increasing demand because of economy improving all over the world and with the richer getting much much richer and faster..... (plus the fact that the gap between CCR vs OCR private condos are at their lowest since don't know how many decades!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices of HDBs, OCR condos, CCR condos.
What will I do if I am in these position?
1) If own HDB, quickly sell to upgrade to OCR/CCR condos since the gap are quite narrow now (what many are already or had done up to now).
2) If own OCR condo, upgrade to CCR since gap narrowest in don't know how many decades!
3) If own CCR condo, buy more CCR condos! :cheers1:
how about rcr?
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:03
As I already said, govt owns lots and lots of endless(literally) OCR land (sufficient to house >10m population in Singapore?). On these, HDB flats and OCR private condos will be built. Raising HDB income ceiling and building more HDB flats means OCR private condos will have less buyers and cannibalize OCR private condos demand->sales and ultimately prices.
For investment, CCR is safest bet as govt has little land to supply to affect the "supply" equation (vs large "endless" "supply" in OCR). Living environment, your surroundings, your neighbours etc also better. Security generally also better since you will be living besides all those "who's who". Don't need to fight for car park lots with your neighbours (generally true in CCR prime & luxury condos, not those MM estate and full of MM units).
For own stay, CCR is in central area and well-connected and convenient to most places you need to go in singapore and short distance, particularly good schools, so if you can afford, live in CCR also better.
After election, more supply for HDB flats and OCR private condos will come to satisfy demands and meet expectations of the 90% of singaporeans! (10% for OCR condos, 80% for HDB flat owners and upgraders!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices. Optimistically at best: Price stagnant. Persimistically?
u tok so much aso useless....many cant afford to buy non MM ccr
u shd do a speech for the UHWNI;)
It will be a calibrated increase and likely to be in small amounts, like increase to $9K or something. A huge increase will affect the whole property market. All the various housing types are interlinked. HDB supports OCR, OCR supports RCR and so on. Any impact to any group of housing will affect the other groups as well.
RCR should better OCR since CCR is moving upwards?
how about rcr?
devilplate
05-05-11, 09:44
It will be a calibrated increase and likely to be in small amounts, like increase to $9K or something. A huge increase will affect the whole property market. All the various housing types are interlinked. HDB supports OCR, OCR supports RCR and so on. Any impact to any group of housing will affect the other groups as well.
can always compsensate....
stop PR from buying resale flats and increase income ceiling at the same time
but i can tell u....those 8-10k ppl r selfish ..... income ceiling increase just give more reasons for mbt to up the bto px in future.....haha.....now mbt can 'oblige' to increase without he himself initiating:hell-hath-no-fury:
It will be a calibrated increase and likely to be in small amounts, like increase to $9K or something. .
If the government only "revisit" this ceiling every 17 years, I think the next notch up should be 10K or more and not some small increment.......And it is also wise not to revisit this ceiling too often.:)
If the government only "revisit" this ceiling every 17 years, I think the next notch up should be 10K or more and not some small increment.......And it is also wise not to revisit this ceiling too often.:)It is always tricky to review such figures!!! It might just tilt the balance delicately toward a slow down in pte ppty. But then again our pte ppty prices have indeed climbed too quickly over the last 2 years!!! Hardly can breath le... Good also coz some people are waiting to pounce once prices fall... good for everybody lah!!! :cheers1:
can always compsensate....
stop PR from buying resale flats and increase income ceiling at the same time
but i can tell u....those 8-10k ppl r selfish ..... income ceiling increase just give more reasons for mbt to up the bto px in future.....haha.....now mbt can 'oblige' to increase without he himself initiating:hell-hath-no-fury:But isn't MBT saying that he don't want the prices of BTO to climb too quickly? Hmm.... a great disguise man!!! So many theories!!! :D
devilplate
05-05-11, 10:19
But isn't MBT saying that he don't want the prices of BTO to climb too quickly? Hmm.... a great disguise man!!! So many theories!!! :D
ya lor...no perfect policy bcoz every man needs r different
ya lor...no perfect policy bcoz every man needs r differentIsn't that the most difficult part for MBT, to strike that intricate balance where as many people are happy with the housing market??? Actually what he's achieved is pretty decent. Just that I cannot stand his cocky statement, 'our HDB is actually affordable'... then he gave an example that don't add up! :doh:. No different from someone who said our healthcare is actually affordable!!! :scared-1:
Actually what he's achieved is pretty decent. Just that I cannot stand his cocky statement
again argument will go back to high salary, high salary man left with no room to make mistake, perfection is expected :D
again argument will go back to high salary, high salary man left with no room to make mistake, perfection is expected :DI would rather settle for a much lower salary and can still make mistakes here and there!!! Hahahaha! :D
devilplate
05-05-11, 11:15
I would rather settle for a much lower salary and can still make mistakes here and there!!! Hahahaha! :D
yeah.....no job largi best.....sit at home tcss.....make mistakes at most change a new nick:D
I would rather settle for a much lower salary and can still make mistakes here and there!!! Hahahaha! :D
brother, how low is low... ministers pay reduce to 1mio, there will still be some unhappy people around...but this time maybe lesser ..
nobrainer32007
05-05-11, 22:59
Agree! Those who bought ocr like 99 yr LH RH if really can make money now better cash out. Depreciating asset.
The remaining 10% living in CCR, well, the data I provided shows that completion supply in 2012 will be the lowest at 1 thousand+ since this whole decade. So very low supply vs increasing demand because of economy improving all over the world and with the richer getting much much richer and faster..... (plus the fact that the gap between CCR vs OCR private condos are at their lowest since don't know how many decades!).
You can make a judgement on what the end results will be to prices of HDBs, OCR condos, CCR condos.
What will I do if I am in these position?
1) If own HDB, quickly sell to upgrade to OCR/CCR condos since the gap are quite narrow now (what many are already or had done up to now).
2) If own OCR condo, upgrade to CCR since gap narrowest in don't know how many decades!
3) If own CCR condo, buy more CCR condos! :cheers1:
brother, how low is low... ministers pay reduce to 1mio, there will still be some unhappy people around...but this time maybe lesser ..Try $ (#4#@$)100 000 per year...:sleep:
Very easy, 30x the median pay of citizens (note: CITIZENS, not include foreigners & PRs). :D
Median pay of citizens + PRs (which generally have higher pay) is about $2500 pm? Then 30x $2500 x 12 mths = $900k !
Oh yes, general people got no pension hor! Pension scheme is a sick scheme! It has been removed for all civil servants except for the Ministers & MPs. Isn't it time to remove that for the Ministers & MPs as well? :o
brother, how low is low... ministers pay reduce to 1mio, there will still be some unhappy people around...but this time maybe lesser ..
Very easy, 30x the median pay of citizens (note: CITIZENS, not include foreigners & PRs). :D
Median pay of citizens + PRs (which generally have higher pay) is about $2500 pm? Then 30x $2500 x 12 mths = $900k !
Oh yes, general people got no pension hor! Pension scheme is a sick scheme! It has been removed for all civil servants except for the Ministers & MPs. Isn't it time to remove that for the Ministers & MPs as well? :o
Re pension scheme...
Not removed as we do need to take good care of these very important folks making billion dollars decisions for the country... but double the length of minimum service to 4 terms, see how many can "survive", those who can, in my books, are "worthy"... now 2-terms just too short la... :D :D
Re pension scheme...
Not removed as we do need to take good care of these very important folks making billion dollars decisions for the country... but double the length of minimum service to 4 terms, see how many can "survive", those who can, in my books, are "worthy"... now 2-terms just too short la... :D :DIf keep pension scheme for our ministers, I'll recommend their salary be slashed by half coz they only need to pay their daily family expenses and luxurious living and no need to save for retirement coz pension takes care of them already... :D
Imagine having a daily income of $5000 which is equivalent to some couple's monthly income.
If keep pension scheme for our ministers, I'll recommend their salary be slashed by half coz they only need to pay their daily family expenses and luxurious living and no need to save for retirement coz pension takes care of them already... :D
proud owner
06-05-11, 15:14
If keep pension scheme for our ministers, I'll recommend their salary be slashed by half coz they only need to pay their daily family expenses and luxurious living and no need to save for retirement coz pension takes care of them already... :D
but u know lah ... they will need more money ... to upkeep their bungalows ...some good class bungalows ...
also must continue to employ body guards .....
i always wonder ..
if singapore is so SAFE like they always boasted, and they are so TRANSPARENT and CLEAN and FAIR and whatever ..... WHY THE NEED FOR BODY GUARDs ?
ASIA sayings:
SIT UPRIGHT, STAND UPRIGHT ;
DAY TIME DONT DO BAD THINGS, AT NIGHT NO SCARE GHOSTS KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR;
but u know lah ... they will need more money ... to upkeep their bungalows ...some good class bungalows ...
also must continue to employ body guards .....
i always wonder ..
if singapore is so SAFE like they always boasted, and they are so TRANSPARENT and CLEAN and FAIR and whatever ..... WHY THE NEED FOR BODY GUARDs ?
ASIA sayings:
SIT UPRIGHT, STAND UPRIGHT ;
DAY TIME DONT DO BAD THINGS, AT NIGHT NO SCARE GHOSTS KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR;No need lah... their GC bungalows will be part of the retirement pension item to be given to them. They only need to hire body guards but that one their pension can cover le...
Btw, its 'if usually don't do bad things, no scare knockings on the door at midnight...' :D
devilplate
06-05-11, 15:50
but u know lah ... they will need more money ... to upkeep their bungalows ...some good class bungalows ...
also must continue to employ body guards .....
i always wonder ..
if singapore is so SAFE like they always boasted, and they are so TRANSPARENT and CLEAN and FAIR and whatever ..... WHY THE NEED FOR BODY GUARDs ?
ASIA sayings:
SIT UPRIGHT, STAND UPRIGHT ;
DAY TIME DONT DO BAD THINGS, AT NIGHT NO SCARE GHOSTS KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR;
for every policy, there will be some sacrifices....den those who kena sacrificed will take revenge wat....
You need bodyguards coz too many people will be asking for their autograph in the night...need to sleep so can be think better the next day
[quote=proud owner]
if singapore is so SAFE like they always boasted, and they are so TRANSPARENT and CLEAN and FAIR and whatever ..... WHY THE NEED FOR BODY GUARDs ?
devilplate
06-05-11, 15:59
You need bodyguards coz too many people will be asking for their autograph in the night...need to sleep so can be think better the next day
[quote=proud owner]
if singapore is so SAFE like they always boasted, and they are so TRANSPARENT and CLEAN and FAIR and whatever ..... WHY THE NEED FOR BODY GUARDs ?
nicole seah definitely nid many bodyguards
definitely got pyscho stalkers
The Singaporean who wrote, 'Will you marry me' is a big copy cat... On normination day, when Prince and Kate married, also many people hung boards saying, 'Henry will you marry me?' blar blar... but it's certainly a satire for comic relief... :spliff:
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