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http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC110513-0000294/Too-much-advance-buying-distorts-true-demand
Too much advance buying distorts true demand
by Colin Tan
04:46 AM May 13, 2011
I have always advised potential new home owners or genuine upgraders that their main motivation to buy a property should be based on need and not greed.
Buying in advance slightly ahead or delaying a purchase for a short period of time is alright but not when it is too far from the period of need.
Buying ahead may mean getting married earlier than planned - when there are still issues to be resolved.
At the other end, in delaying a purchase, there may be opportunity costs that are not quantifiable, such as having children, privacy and shorter commuting times.
It was therefore quite worrying that, despite a significant ramping up of Build-To-Order (BTO) launches over the past several quarters to reach new highs in recent years, the demand for new HDB flats has remained as strong as ever.
We continue to read news reports of this or that BTO project being oversubscribed several times. We are told that a significant number are repeat applicants - households that have failed to secure a flat in earlier launches. However, what is disquieting is that there appears to be no discernible trend to show that the underlying subscription rate has come down in any significant way.
Even if the public housing authorities have seriously underestimated demand in previous years, it is inconceivable to think that all this new demand - at multiples of average demand five to six years ago - is simply pent-up demand.
Basic economic theory tells us that when prices go up, demand falls. Yet, in our current situation, more are buying as prices head upwards. The only explanation is that quite a significant proportion of this demand is advance buying - from households who do not anticipate that they need their flats in the short term but are applying to buy now before prices go even higher. The greater the panic, the higher the proportion of advance buying.
Some of us simply cannot understand the panic felt by young couples, especially since the Government has made it clear both by words and deeds that they will increase the number of BTOs if there is demand.
Take a hypothetical young couple who are not even remotely contemplating marriage. But because of advice from other couples and their peers, they apply to buy in advance, just to be on the safe side. They may not worry if their first two applications are rejected. But with the third rejection, they start to feel anxious.
And because they have been monitoring the market closely, they can see prices climbing with each new BTO. When they are rejected the third and fourth time, panic sets in.
Such "panicky" couples are a walking advertisement to all other couples to buy now rather than later. And so the proportion of advance buying snowballs with more of such couples. The news spreads fast among their friends and, as we know, bad news spreads even more quickly. Many young people have told me that even their parents are urging them to apply without delay.
Common sense tells us that we cannot have too high a proportion of advance buying because there will be severe market repercussions down the road, some of which can be pretty unpleasant.
Too much advance buying leaves too little demand in future years. Too much building at about the same time also stretches the capacity of the construction sector and leads to high demand for materials and resources, in turn leading to higher prices. After these units are completed and the minimum five-year occupation period reached, the pool of resale flats will balloon, leading to sharp falls in prices.
To arrest or quell this panic buying, the authorities should consider launching even more BTO projects, maybe twice or even triple the current number, at the same time.
Alternatively, if there are insufficient manpower resources to prepare for so many BTOs to be launched together, the authorities could impose a temporary price freeze - of maybe a year or two. This way, those who are not in urgent need can wait right up to the end of this grace period before applying. This would immediately calm and remove most of the advance buying in the market, leaving just the true current demand.
Like any inflation scourge, this bout of panic buying needs to be stopped quickly before it grows and spirals out of control.
Colin Tan is head, research and consultancy, at Chesterton Suntec International.
Regulators
20-05-11, 16:12
I take it that this guy is talking cock. How can buying hdb flats now distort future demand when the govt is the one controlling the release of new flat supplies? If there is anyone distorting the market, it is hdb appointed valuers and hdb themselves. Hdb did not supply more flats when needed, and when demand softens, so many new flats are churned out :doh:
nobrainer32007
20-05-11, 16:20
This guy is a disgrace to his company[/LIST]
I take it that this guy is talking cock. How can buying hdb flats now distort future demand when the govt is the one controlling the release of new flat supplies? If there is anyone distorting the market, it is hdb appointed valuers and hdb themselves. Hdb did not supply more flats when needed, and when demand softens, so many new flats are churned out :doh:
Regulators
20-05-11, 16:27
Also, the hdb should work alongside with immigration and statistics department to ensure sufficient supply for singaporeans and prs in those crucial years, but did they?
Also, the hdb should work alongside with immigration and statistics department to ensure sufficient supply for singaporeans and prs in those crucial years, but did they?
Re-active vs pro-active.....:beats-me-man:
u should not have been surprised at an article like this, if you had followed all his earlier "research" reports.
Colin Tan is the most vocal bearish analyst. He had been saying the pty market should go down ever since 2009.
At first he was very sure and confident. Listing all the factors and signs and said this is a bubble. Since 2009. Rate will go up. Income is not going up. Hot money will retreat. No buyer will bite. etc. etc. The market will crash.
Of course it did not happen. Later along late 2010/early 2011 when he saw the market is not going down, his tune changed. His comments are getting confusing/self contradicting. "I dun understand why the market is going up".
Now his latest discovery: yes now I understand why it's not going down. "too much advance buying distorts the market" :cool: He's now blaming these buyers for the market not going to what he "predicted".
He's just an analyst who refuses to admit he does not understand the current market.
Also, the hdb should work alongside with immigration and statistics department to ensure sufficient supply for singaporeans and prs in those crucial years, but did they?
HDB not build for singaporeans only meh? since when build for PR? PR can buy from resale issnt it, issnt that good enough? y should we allocate resources to take care of PR? They want to enjoy benefits should convert to Singaporean and contribute to the nation ba.
OPPS hope i didnt offend any PRs...
private developer should work with Immigration and statistics issnt it?
HDB not build for singaporeans only meh? since when build for PR? PR can buy from resale issnt it, issnt that good enough? y should we allocate resources to take care of PR? They want to enjoy benefits should convert to Singaporean and contribute to the nation ba.
OPPS hope i didnt offend any PRs...
private developer should work with Immigration and statistics issnt it?
Not only HDB flats, look at some of the land parcels being released to private developers. There was a prime piece in Bishan near to Junction 8 which was won by Capitaland not too long ago. Could it have been slated to build HDB flats for singaporeans?.....$$$$$$$ speaks louder dude....:money-faced2:
Not only HDB flats, look at some of the land parcels being released to private developers. There was a prime piece in Bishan near to Junction 8 which was won by Capitaland not too long ago. Could it have been slated to build HDB flats for singaporeans?.....$$$$$$$ speaks louder dude....:money-faced2:
there are many prime prime land with HDB ah..... recently i just visited the HDB 40 storey on top of 5 stories of shopping center. Come down is MRT/aircon bus terminal, old school shops + hawker center. There also tons of top location HDB for singaporeans like Queens(stratmore), Tiong bahru/Kim Tian, Duxton and many more ma. Farrer Road also got HDB. Its just 1 piece of land for suckers to pay record price, y u unhappy?
u should not have been surprised at an article like this, if you had followed all his earlier "research" reports.
Colin Tan is the most vocal bearish analyst. He had been saying the pty market should go down ever since 2009.
At first he was very sure and confident. Listing all the factors and signs and said this is a bubble. Since 2009. Rate will go up. Income is not going up. Hot money will retreat. No buyer will bite. etc. etc. The market will crash.
Of course it did not happen. Later along late 2010/early 2011 when he saw the market is not going down, his tune changed. His comments are getting confusing/self contradicting. "I dun understand why the market is going up".
Now his latest discovery: yes now I understand why it's not going down. "too much advance buying distorts the market" :cool: He's now blaming these buyers for the market not going to what he "predicted".
He's just an analyst who refuses to admit he does not understand the current market.Good analysis... bravo... good to know the background... :D
Good analysis... bravo... good to know the background... :D
sooner or later he will be proven right and he can claim he predicted it since 2009 :)
nobrainer32007
20-05-11, 22:55
This kind of quality can also.be head of research? I can be ceo of his firm anytime
u should not have been surprised at an article like this, if you had followed all his earlier "research" reports.
Colin Tan is the most vocal bearish analyst. He had been saying the pty market should go down ever since 2009.
At first he was very sure and confident. Listing all the factors and signs and said this is a bubble. Since 2009. Rate will go up. Income is not going up. Hot money will retreat. No buyer will bite. etc. etc. The market will crash.
Of course it did not happen. Later along late 2010/early 2011 when he saw the market is not going down, his tune changed. His comments are getting confusing/self contradicting. "I dun understand why the market is going up".
Now his latest discovery: yes now I understand why it's not going down. "too much advance buying distorts the market" :cool: He's now blaming these buyers for the market not going to what he "predicted".
He's just an analyst who refuses to admit he does not understand the current market.
venetiacoffee
20-05-11, 23:31
I take it that this guy is talking cock. How can buying hdb flats now distort future demand when the govt is the one controlling the release of new flat supplies? If there is anyone distorting the market, it is hdb appointed valuers and hdb themselves. Hdb did not supply more flats when needed, and when demand softens, so many new flats are churned out :doh:
the guy writes without wisdom; no knowledge of economic theories and psychology ...
The writer is no longer young, so he doesn't understand the fear of new couples. It is always better book first before prices sprial up again or HDB sets up new barriers to distort the chance of getting the HDB flat.
The writer is no longer young, so he doesn't understand the fear of new couples. It is always better book first before prices sprial up again or HDB sets up new barriers to distort the chance of getting the HDB flat.In 2 sentences, you should be head, research and consultancy, at Chesterton Suntec International. :p
Regulators
21-05-11, 09:54
The worse part is it is not just research guys talking cock, even people at the top like ministers also don't know what is going on. I think anyone of us as qualified as mbt to be minister for mnd
In 2 sentences, you should be head, research and consultancy, at Chesterton Suntec International. :p
rattydrama
21-05-11, 10:15
Why is he still on the job since his predictions are bad? Strange.
u should not have been surprised at an article like this, if you had followed all his earlier "research" reports.
Colin Tan is the most vocal bearish analyst. He had been saying the pty market should go down ever since 2009.
At first he was very sure and confident. Listing all the factors and signs and said this is a bubble. Since 2009. Rate will go up. Income is not going up. Hot money will retreat. No buyer will bite. etc. etc. The market will crash.
Of course it did not happen. Later along late 2010/early 2011 when he saw the market is not going down, his tune changed. His comments are getting confusing/self contradicting. "I dun understand why the market is going up".
Now his latest discovery: yes now I understand why it's not going down. "too much advance buying distorts the market" :cool: He's now blaming these buyers for the market not going to what he "predicted".
He's just an analyst who refuses to admit he does not understand the current market.
Regulators
21-05-11, 10:19
In the corporate world, sometimes people survive because they are good at licking boots and carrying balls, not because they got any real substance. My friend working in a commercial bank told me to get to the elite group in the front office, connections is more important than credentials sometimes.
Why is he still on the job since his predictions are bad? Strange.
rattydrama
21-05-11, 10:26
In the corporate world, sometimes people survive because they are good at licking boots and carrying balls, not because they got any real substance. My friend working in a commercial bank told me to get to the elite group in the front office, connections is more important than credentials sometimes.
boots licking is a powerful skills. too bad I fail to realise during my younger age. Luckily no need to boot lick very hard now wif property investment.
:p :p
this forum should be a good forum for his bosses to visit. :D
kingkong1984
21-05-11, 10:49
Actually he talks sense and should be right. However, he under estimated the manipulative powers of the developers. It is a game and hide and seek. U hide something, I seek to do something.
Hahahaha, now things cannot be hidden, so developers seek to OFFLOAD quickly...
So many advertisements lately, all rushing for what? Before the river run dry?
Regulators
21-05-11, 10:53
Bootlicking is indeed an art form of the highest order and nobody does it better than the people in the grassroots. I was never the bootlicking sort that is why the corporate world doesn't suit me lol. Another high level art form is corporate taichi, ie passing the bug to others without creating negative feelings in others
boots licking is a powerful skills. too bad I fail to realise during my younger age. Luckily no need to boot lick very hard now wif property investment.
:p :p
this forum should be a good forum for his bosses to visit. :D
rattydrama
21-05-11, 10:59
Bootlicking is indeed an art form of the highest order and nobody does it better than the people in the grassroots. I was never the bootlicking sort that is why the corporate world doesn't suit me lol. Another high level art form is corporate taichi, ie passing the bug to others without creating negative feelings in others
and you do all the dirty/difficult jobs still din get promoted or recognised because your boss knows that you are too good and din want to part with you. :p
actually i find that the younger generations generally are better in boot licking, I have seen it with my own eyes.
Regulators
21-05-11, 11:11
Haha I never intended to get promoted anyway coz I did not see much of a future working for people, I was working to save up to start my own business. While people were busy with their reports, I was busy thinking of location and strategy for my business venture. I had a totally different mindset from my colleagues coz I know I can never get financial freedom working for others
and you do all the dirty/difficult jobs still din get promoted or recognised because your boss knows that you are too good and din want to part with you. :p
actually i find that the younger generations generally are better in boot licking, I have seen it with my own eyes.
rattydrama
21-05-11, 11:13
Actually he talks sense and should be right. However, he under estimated the manipulative powers of the developers. It is a game and hide and seek. U hide something, I seek to do something.
Hahahaha, now things cannot be hidden, so developers seek to OFFLOAD quickly...
So many advertisements lately, all rushing for what? Before the river run dry?
But the problem is created by MBT's policy, so colin only see the problem when it comes but did not analysis why populations are doing it.
so his article, on surface seems right, but that is not the root of the issue.
probably he got to understand why people behave in this manner before he writes and distort the issue.
People rushing to buy their first home are mostly buying out of fear, not greed. He's gotten it wrong. Those who rush to buy their subsequent investment properties could be buying out of greed.
kingkong1984
21-05-11, 11:21
Good point.
I dun always agree with him.
Anyway, the conclusion is always correct, what goes up must come down. Just when. He will be right in no time but he has been wrong till now.
rattydrama
21-05-11, 11:30
Haha I never intended to get promoted anyway coz I did not see much of a future working for people, I was working to save up to start my own business. While people were busy with their reports, I was busy thinking of location and strategy for my business venture. I had a totally different mindset from my colleagues coz I know I can never get financial freedom working for others
i am waiting to be fired to start my 2nd career. lol.. sometimes letting go is not easy.
Not sure what do you mean by "greed"? One put money in bank to grow their money to beat inflation. Some people buy property to grow their wealth.
People rushing to buy their first home are mostly buying out of fear, not greed. He's gotten it wrong. Those who rush to buy their subsequent investment properties could be buying out of greed.
Regulators
21-05-11, 11:50
It also depends how much you get paid, if you are paid $20k a month in your current job, hard to call it quits but if your pay is $5k or less, much easier to make the decision. It also depends on how confident you are in your business venture. I know some professionals who quit high paying jobs to set up eateries and they do well. Thai Express ceo only 35 but sold his biz for a cool $80 mil.
i am waiting to be fired to start my 2nd career. lol.. sometimes letting go is not easy.
rattydrama
21-05-11, 12:01
It also depends how much you get paid, if you are paid $20k a month in your current job, hard to call it quits but if your pay is $5k or less, much easier to make the decision. It also depends on how confident you are in your business venture. I know some professionals who quit high paying jobs to set up eateries and they do well. Thai Express ceo only 35 but sold his biz for a cool $80 mil.
for a reported successful business venture, there sure to have alot of unreported fail venture ..... sad to be in their shoes....
alot of hard work but luck is also an alement. Plus personality counts. must be chiong type cos... alot of energy needed for start up.....
Maybe property investment still quite safe cos there are rental buffer and propertism believers. :p :p
This is only one success story in many failed attempts. Safer to continue to work and grow the passive income. Once passive income (property and business investment, etc) is more than active income through work, will then retire.
It also depends how much you get paid, if you are paid $20k a month in your current job, hard to call it quits but if your pay is $5k or less, much easier to make the decision. It also depends on how confident you are in your business venture. I know some professionals who quit high paying jobs to set up eateries and they do well. Thai Express ceo only 35 but sold his biz for a cool $80 mil.
Regulators
21-05-11, 12:20
To put all your time on one job is like putting all the eggs in one basket. Always have a few revenue generator for yourself. Good to run a few sidelines and get income from rental as well. For me personally, I can easily live off my rental income from my properties, but I cannot stop my business and sidelines coz they will help me to generate more income to buy properties. I realise a lot people scared to take the first plunge, but trust me, when you believe hard enough that you will succeed and hade a feasible business plan, it is no turning back liao.
for a reported successful business venture, there sure to have alot of unreported fail venture ..... sad to be in their shoes....
alot of hard work but luck is also an alement. Plus personality counts. must be chiong type cos... alot of energy needed for start up.....
Maybe property investment still quite safe cos there are rental buffer and propertism believers. :p :p
It takes hardwork to grow a business and do not want to leave when it is harvesting time. Just like what MM and SM is doing.
To put all your time on one job is like putting all the eggs in one basket. Always have a few revenue generator for yourself. Good to run a few sidelines and get income from rental as well. For me personally, I can easily live off my rental income from my properties, but I cannot stop my business and sidelines coz they will help me to generate more income to buy properties. I realise a lot people scared to take the first plunge, but trust me, when you believe hard enough that you will succeed and hade a feasible business plan, it is no turning back liao.
Regulators
21-05-11, 12:32
To me finishing the work in the office in half the time and spending the other half of my time staring at the computer screen pretending I am busy at work is even harder work lol...i find that in most office jobs, people generally spend a lot of fruitless time sitting in the office even when work is completed for the day. That half a day of wasted time could be used to help you generate income elsewhere but because of your job restrictions, you cannot. This is the reason why I choose to be self employed
It takes hardwork to grow a business and do not want to leave when it is harvesting time. Just like what MM and SM is doing.
Not sure what do you mean by "greed"? One put money in bank to grow their money to beat inflation. Some people buy property to grow their wealth.
That's why I used the word could. Those who invest in investment properties could be doing it out of long term fear of inflation whilst some do it for greed of short term gains, e.g. flipping. But I say with great certainty that young people who rush into their first home do it primarily out of fear. When you're young and enjoying life, how is it possible that one would want to tie themselves down out of greed??
Flipping can help them reach their goals faster or even higher ones. Do you see young people stay with one company for a long time like those baby boomers?
That's why I used the word could. Those who invest in investment properties could be doing it out of long term fear of inflation whilst some do it for greed of short term gains, e.g. flipping. But I say with great certainty that young people who rush into their first home do it primarily out of fear. When you're young and enjoying life, how is it possible that one would want to tie themselves down out of greed??
Flipping can help them reach their goals faster or even higher ones. Do you see young people stay with one company for a long time like those baby boomers?
I guess I'm a little more old fashion. :cheers1: Well but at least I'm certain the young ones who settle down to buy a flat do it out primarily of fear.
devilplate
21-05-11, 13:46
I guess I'm a little more old fashion. :cheers1: Well but at least I'm certain the young ones who settle down to buy a flat do it out primarily of fear.
Got some buy out of greed....stretch max max n get bigger 5rm flat so tat nxt time bigger profit
All types of ppl....
Non conclusive
Greed could be a factor in deciding which size to go for. but the decision to go buy a hdb flat earlier rather than later is driven primarily by fear.
developers quickly offload stocks becoz liquidity may dry up
with marq hitting record price $psf now sellers revising higher selling psf
it looks/feels like
1) buyers may hold off becoz expectation gap widens
2) bank/valuer stressed as ura historical prices $psf far from seller's calling price
3) pre-bubble environment/feel...rush 'feel'
kingkong1984
21-05-11, 14:30
One freak deal
One smokey deal
One lower deal
One likely deal.
Tread wisely or
Live miserably.
Developers are trying to sell off the remaining units in the earlier launch projects in today's ST. Not sure will buyers bite?
Developers are trying to sell off the remaining units in the earlier launch projects in today's ST. Not sure will buyers bite?
What project what price? If the price is right...
Most of them will said they are releasing choice unit and therefore higher $psf.
What project what price? If the price is right...
kingkong1984
21-05-11, 15:26
When the car is going uphill, u reserve the best seats for the best passengers that hitch a ride along the way.
When the car is going downhill, u offer the best seats for the next best passenger that hitch a ride along the way.
Keep the best for last when it is uphill.
Keep the worst for last when it is downhill.
Get it?
I know I can never get financial freedom working for othersWords of wisdom... :p
People rushing to buy their first home are mostly buying out of fear, not greed. He's gotten it wrong. Those who rush to buy their subsequent investment properties could be buying out of greed.He did mention about fear coz after 3rd time still unsuccessful then panic creep in. panic = fear?? maybe. Anyway he was probably only talking about a small majority of 1st time buyers and not the vast majority. :tsk-tsk:
This is only one success story in many failed attempts. Safer to continue to work and grow the passive income. Once passive income (property and business investment, etc) is more than active income through work, will then retire.I no need to have passive income > active income. I just target at passive income > household expenditure, I'll retire... :D
Is that a lot? Need surplus $ for other investment.
I no need to have passive income > active income. I just target at passive income > household expenditure, I'll retire... :D
Developers are trying to sell off the remaining units in the earlier launch projects in today's ST. Not sure will buyers bite?Most buyers will await KBW's response to the difficult housing market before committing but only those who feel that CM5 is coming will rush to buy now before more complications arise like 5yr SSD or something... :doh:
He did mention about fear coz after 3rd time still unsuccessful then panic creep in. panic = fear?? maybe. Anyway he was probably only talking about a small majority of 1st time buyers and not the vast majority. :tsk-tsk:
Yah, first timers looking at the plight of third timers will panic as well. It doesn't take someone to personally experience repeated unsuccessful attempted to make them panic.
devilplate
21-05-11, 15:42
I no need to have passive income > active income. I just target at passive income > household expenditure, I'll retire... :D
how much u nid a mth? Subject to diff lifestyle?
Will not implement CM5 so fast. First action of KBW must first help people with carrot first and then follow by the cane.
Most buyers will await KBW's response to the difficult housing market before committing but only those who feel that CM5 is coming will rush to buy now before more complications arise like 5yr SSD or something... :doh:
Is that a lot? Need surplus $ for other investment.Well, when passive income > household expenditure, I'll just take part time and spend remaining time doing what I like or take up hobby, etc so still have extra part time income minus the stress coz no need to feel obliged to stay in the job so must perform, etc... stressless job environment = happy work environment... now that to me is retirement... just working to pass time. If got extra cash, then invest here and there but actually no need le... :sleep:
Will not implement CM5 so fast. First action of KBW must first help people with carrot first and then follow by the cane.
Second that. After CM4, I think this stick has lost most of it's effectiveness as most speculative have been sidelined.
Yah, first timers looking at the plight of third timers will panic as well. It doesn't take someone to personally experience repeated unsuccessful attempted to make them panic.Agreed... :D Many examples to get panic...
devilplate
21-05-11, 15:46
Yah, first timers looking at the plight of third timers will panic as well. It doesn't take someone to personally experience repeated unsuccessful attempted to make them panic.
Sellers greedy, sell high high
Buyers panic, chase the px
linchong84
21-05-11, 15:48
Most buyers will await KBW's response to the difficult housing market before committing but only those who feel that CM5 is coming will rush to buy now before more complications arise like 5yr SSD or something... :doh:
If you are holding a lot, then cannot wait for his response.. If it's bad news, it'll be too late cos prices will be affected overnight.. Gotta gamble on heads or tails..
Sellers greedy, sell high high
Buyers panic, chase the px
The panic starts when people chase. And it doesn't help when you see your on peers chasing with you.
how much u nid a mth? Subject to diff lifestyle?Subject to how many kids one has and which phase of the kid's education. If kids are independent le, the amount one needs for daily survival is actually pretty low... as low as $2500/month for a decent luxurious lifestyle but if still have 2 children dependents, then maybe up to $6000/month but if still have parents dependents and up to 4 children dependent, then can go up to some $10 000/month. :doh: Very dynamic lah...
Hey where is your beer logo???
If you are holding a lot, then cannot wait for his response.. If it's bad news, it'll be too late cos prices will be affected overnight.. Gotta gamble on heads or tails..So what is your bet? Heads or tails? Well, govt will always say heads I win, tails you lose... so what's your bet?
One fully paid up property can probably get you $2.5k per month.
That will become a herd after a while. Not very good.
The panic starts when people chase. And it doesn't help when you see your on peers chasing with you.
Most buyers will await KBW's response to the difficult housing market before committing but only those who feel that CM5 is coming will rush to buy now before more complications arise like 5yr SSD or something... :doh:
those who feel CM5 is coming will rush to buy..? doubt so.
if im a home buyer,for own stay. i will wait for more measures to come before i get a good deal.
if im a investor, i will wait til more measures to come so i can offer lower price.. or might not even wanna buy, if the new CM will affect my potential buyers.
why rush to buy and take the CM4+ 5yrs risk??
The panic starts when people chase. And it doesn't help when you see your on peers chasing with you.No need to panic... different people have different dynamics so just ensure you are ahead of the pack. However, even if u see others ahead, just set your own target and no need to compare... I kept telling my friends no point setting other people's target as your own target. Set your own realistic target and stop once you achieve your own target. After that, maybe set new target. Never assume other's target as your own... potent ingredient for self delusion and disappointment... :p
devilplate
21-05-11, 15:54
Subject to how many kids one has and which phase of the kid's education. If kids are independent le, the amount one needs for daily survival is actually pretty low... as low as $2500/month for a decent luxurious lifestyle but if still have 2 children dependents, then maybe up to $6000/month but if still have parents dependents and up to 4 children dependent, then can go up to some $10 000/month. :doh: Very dynamic lah...
Hey where is your beer logo???
Hmmm..u r leading a gd life:D
Kbw takeover liao....too much beer..unhealthy
That will become a herd after a while. Not very good.
Yes, for now the herd has been driven away by CM4 and the relentless launch of BTOs. They need to keep it up, otherwise the herd can quickly form again.
One fully paid up property can probably get you $2.5k per month.Depending on where and what property. A penthouse can bring you up to $5k/month in OCR.. :D
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:05
Yes, for now the herd has been driven away by CM4 and the relentless launch of BTOs. They need to keep it up, otherwise the herd can quickly form again.
Launch too many can b disastrous later on?
If those sign up for bto flats, how much they forfeit for not taking up ownership upon top? I heard few k only...dangerous
Depending on where and what property. A penthouse can bring you up to $5k/month in OCR.. :D
Yup, so if you're aiming at 2.5-5k, you might not be too far from achieving it.
Hmmm..u r leading a gd life:D
Kbw takeover liao....too much beer..unhealthyNo lah.. not really good life... I'm quoting the upper limit lah... luxurious means continue to drive and pay for life insurance and take occasional overseas holiday trips... if minus these away, then the lower limit will be < $1000/month. All depends lor.. :D Good that you've quit drinking beer... try vitagen! Good for health.. :spliff:
Launch too many can b disastrous later on?
If those sign up for bto flats, how much they forfeit for not taking up ownership upon top? I heard few k only...dangerous
The way I see it, they can keep going at this rate for a few more years to catch up on lost time.
Yup, so if you're aiming at 2.5-5k, you might not be too far from achieving it.Hahahaha... thanks for seeing me so up... or how u know that I've not already achieved my target??? Hahaha! Anyway, my targets are actually easily achieved. I don't have high targets like some of the forummers here who wants to invest and invest and invest... hahaha!!! :spliff:
The way I see it, they can keep going at this rate for a few more years to catch up on lost time.Maybe for another 2 years max... if they can even survive 1 year at this rate coz KBW would have already stepped in by then... :eek:
Many other factors to consider... Now PAP kept promising they'll listen to people's complaints and many said that KBW will come with something extraordinary like what he did with MOH, the housing landscape in Singapore will surely be different le... looking forward to positive changes soon.... :spliff:
Maybe for another 2 years max... if they can even survive 1 year at this rate coz KBW would have already stepped in by then... :eek:
Meaning pty prices should correct in 2 years somewhat? Many bought with the hope of appreciation but weak holders will bite the dust with interest rates go up up and away. Moreover, many TOPs in the next 2 years = many units up for rental and sale.:rolleyes:
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:13
Maybe for another 2 years max... if they can even survive 1 year at this rate coz KBW would have already stepped in by then... :eek:
Living behaviours are changing.. Last time people don't mind 10+ people living in a big 5 room flat, 3 generations of a family all live together. Now it's different, people all don't want to live with parents, so 2 person buy 1 apartment to stay, another apartment for rental.. So the ratio of people to house is smaller and smaller..
Hahahaha... thanks for seeing me so up... or how u know that I've not already achieved my target??? Hahaha! Anyway, my targets are actually easily achieved. I don't have high targets like some of the forummers here who wants to invest and invest and invest... hahaha!!! :spliff:
With more, can then factor in 2 long holiday trips per year.
Maybe for another 2 years max... if they can even survive 1 year at this rate coz KBW would have already stepped in by then... :eek:
Supply rate needs to continue, otherwise the early good work of ramping up supply would be undone very quickly.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:15
Anyone knows how much those ppl goto forfeit for bto flats if they dunwan?
Isit 5% of purchase px?
Living behaviours are changing.. Last time people don't mind 10+ people living in a big 5 room flat, 3 generations of a family all live together. Now it's different, people all don't want to live with parents, so 2 person buy 1 apartment to stay, another apartment for rental.. So the ratio of people to house is smaller and smaller..You can also tell that HDB is changing along with this mindset too... the HDB in the 90s can have 5I and size can be like 125 sq meters. Now 5 room HDB is only 110 sq meters... Having said that, MM units are still not for family lah, no matter how mindsets have changed and how new couples like to stay in small houses... :D
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:18
Anyone knows how much those ppl goto forfeit for bto flats if they dunwan?
I heard my friend say before.. forgot 2k or 4k.. but that's if they call off wedding (ie not getting married, not valid for BTO)..
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:21
You can also tell that HDB is changing along with this mindset too... the HDB in the 90s can have 5I and size can be like 125 sq meters. Now 5 room HDB is only 110 sq meters... Having said that, MM units are still not for family lah, no matter how mindsets have changed and how new couples like to stay in small houses... :D
Depend on how mm is the MM.. Those 300+sqft or even 400+sqft 1 bedder is good for those singles who are not getting married.. So if family go and buy these kind to stay, something is wrong.. Otherwise 700+sqft 2 bedder is actually alright for a small size family.. Singapore's fertility rate is 1.16 only, ie many people are not getting married or only have 1 child.. So 700+sqft 2 bedder is actually sufficient.. Most people don't stay home shake leg all day anyway..
With more, can then factor in 2 long holiday trips per year.At the rate you are travelling, you can finish travelling around the world in 11 years. 2 long trips a year = 22 trips in 11 years. You only need like 5 long trips to complete Europe, 5 to complete North America, 2 for South America, 3 for Australia/New Zealand and 5 more for Asia and finally 2 for Africa. Hahaha!!! Then you'll be aimless after that. Repeat the cycle? I'll prefer 1 long trip a year so can last 22 years... maybe 15 years (not interested in some parts of the world). :spliff:
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:22
I heard my friend say before.. forgot 2k or 4k.. but that's if they call off wedding (ie not getting married, not valid for BTO)..
I was told 5%...so easy for them to forfeit....
Dangerous.....
Demand suddenly surge up for bto flats.....many yng couple suddenly wana get married...lol...anything can appen 2-3yrs later when bto flats r ready
Depend on how mm is the MM.. Those 300+sqft or even 400+sqft 1 bedder is good for those singles who are not getting married.. So if family go and buy these kind to stay, something is wrong.. Otherwise 700+sqft 2 bedder is actually alright for a small size family.. Singapore's fertility rate is 1.16 only, ie many people are not getting married or only have 1 child.. So 700+sqft 2 bedder is actually sufficient.. Most people don't stay home shake leg all day anyway..Yup.. my advise to developers is build more 2 bedders coz the trend is certainly moving in that direction... :D
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:25
I was told 5%...so easy for them to forfeit....
Dangerous.....
Demand suddenly surge up for bto flats.....many yng couple suddenly wana get married...lol...anything can appen 2-3yrs later when bto flats r ready
It's because nowadays starting pay is very good. If they don't apply early, then they won't be able to qualify for it soon.
I was told 5%...so easy for them to forfeit....
Dangerous.....
Demand suddenly surge up for bto flats.....many yng couple suddenly wana get married...lol...anything can appen 2-3yrs later when bto flats r readySuddenly building so many BTO means there is a pent up demand... so suggesting govt has been ignoring cries to build HDB... sigh!!! Good thing they are listening more now... hahaha!!!:D
At the rate you are travelling, you can finish travelling around the world in 11 years. 2 long trips a year = 22 trips in 11 years. You only need like 5 long trips to complete Europe, 5 to complete North America, 2 for South America, 3 for Australia/New Zealand and 5 more for Asia and finally 2 for Africa. Hahaha!!! Then you'll be aimless after that. Repeat the cycle? I'll prefer 1 long trip a year so can last 22 years... maybe 15 years (not interested in some parts of the world). :spliff:
Some places worth going back again.
True about starting paying. Both parties out working could see their salary crossing $8k combined in a few years.
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:29
Yup.. my advise to developers is build more 2 bedders coz the trend is certainly moving in that direction... :D
Yah.. That's why gradually you noticed both developers and HDB reduce the size of the kitchen to smaller and smaller and smaller. That's because they also realise people don't cook too. People also don't watch that much tv, gradually young grp of people use comp to watch shows or surf net, talk cock in forums or fb, so they also reduce size of living room. So here cut a bit, there cut a bit, the size becomes smaller and smaller. But end of it, it is actually sufficient one lah..
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:29
It's because nowadays starting pay is very good. If they don't apply early, then they won't be able to qualify for it soon.
If hdb resale px drop more den 10%, bto flats px will drop accordingly, n those can forfeit just 5% .....empty flats.....like in early 2000s
Suddenly building so many BTO means there is a pent up demand... so suggesting govt has been ignoring cries to build HDB... sigh!!! Good thing they are listening more now... hahaha!!!:D
I still remember those waterfront units at punggol gathered 7-10x oversubscription.
Opportunities do not knock on your door twice. Act when it is knocking. Look at how and when warren buffet invest.
Hahahaha... thanks for seeing me so up... or how u know that I've not already achieved my target??? Hahaha! Anyway, my targets are actually easily achieved. I don't have high targets like some of the forummers here who wants to invest and invest and invest... hahaha!!! :spliff:
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:33
If hdb resale px drop more den 10%, bto flats px will drop accordingly, n those can forfeit just 5% .....empty flats.....like in early 2000s
I don't know whether HDB used a formula to determine BTO prices. If they don't then i doubt it will ever drop. At most maintain cos it is already quite low.. Every single BTO is oversubscribed badly, it doesn't make sense for HDB to further drop it.. They will most likely offer more grants for those earning low. To help middle income, they will increase ceiling loh.. Like that will make both sets of people happy.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:34
Suddenly building so many BTO means there is a pent up demand... so suggesting govt has been ignoring cries to build HDB... sigh!!! Good thing they are listening more now... hahaha!!!:D
U dun get wat i mean....
How come suddenly so many 1st timer wana buy bto?
Genuine demand or kiasu, kiabo? They can forfeit just 5% if hdb resale px crashed caused by external factors....
Vy dangerous sia.....shd make them at least forfeit 20%.....
It's a kiasu syndrome. :beats-me-man:
U dun get wat i mean....
How come suddenly so many 1st timer wana buy bto?
Genuine demand or kiasu, kiabo? They can forfeit just 5% if hdb resale px crashed caused by external factors....
Vy dangerous sia.....shd make them at least forfeit 20%.....
There are 2 groups, one is the newly wed. 2 are the second timers who see a lot of demand for their resale flat. Singaporean are obsessed with anything and everything that is new.
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:39
U dun get wat i mean....
How come suddenly so many 1st timer wana buy bto?
Genuine demand or kiasu, kiabo? They can forfeit just 5% hdb resale px crashed caused by external factors....
Vy dangerous sia.....shd make them at least forfeit 20%.....
Ok reasons should be as per below:
(1) starting pay of people are now quite high.. A banker easily earn 4-5k. Teacher 3+k, sign on even got 4.9k if they get good degree. So within 2-3 years after grad, they will not be able to qualify for BTO anymore. So dun wait liao, just chiong.
(2) BTO takes 5 years to build. To people who want to get married, it might seem a very long time. So, better apply faster to chop seat on a house.
(3) Last time the wife don't mind moving in to stay with the guy's family for a few years. But now things are different. Young ladies like to set up their own family. So to do that, they have to get their own house via BTO chop chop.
(4) Last reason (most impt one): it is damn cheap. 350k for 110 sqm... sure win. How to resist the temptation not to buy?
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:42
And don't need to decipher too much abt the 5% or 20% penalty. To them, it is a house to stay, not to flip. You think they care even if the property market crash? 350k flat can drop to how low? It definitely won't return to the prices 10 years ago unless singapore gets invaded.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:43
I still remember those waterfront units at punggol gathered 7-10x oversubscription.
One couple can apply many many btos at one time....
I wonder if subscription rate will drop by half or more if application fee is raised to 1k:D
If they dunwan to choose a unit, forfeit 1k...:D
If they choose a unit, tat 1k forms part of their downpayment:D
If subscription still many times oversubscribed....i m convinced tat they r serious n genuine:D
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:45
One couple can apply many many btos at one time....
I wonder if subscription rate will drop by half or more if application fee is raised to 1k:D
If they dunwan to choose a unit, forfeit 1k...:D
If they choose a unit, tat 1k forms part of their downpayment:D
If subscription still many times oversubscribed....i m convinced tat they r serious n genuine:D
no lah.. 1 application at any one time. For eg, there are 4 May bto launches. They can only choose 1 to apply. the results will be out in 2 weeks. If fail, try again next month for a new set of launch. If pass, then go for selection. If u choose not to go, there is some penalty of reduced chances or what, not very sure..
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:45
Ok reasons should be as per below:
(1) starting pay of people are now quite high.. A banker easily earn 4-5k. Teacher 3+k, sign on even got 4.9k if they get good degree. So within 2-3 years after grad, they will not be able to qualify for BTO anymore. So dun wait liao, just chiong.
(2) BTO takes 5 years to build. To people who want to get married, it might seem a very long time. So, better apply faster to chop seat on a house.
(3) Last time the wife don't mind moving in to stay with the guy's family for a few years. But now things are different. Young ladies like to set up their own family. So to do that, they have to get their own house via BTO chop chop.
(4) Last reason (most impt one): it is damn cheap. 350k for 110 sqm... sure win. How to resist the temptation not to buy?
But during ge, ppl complain pay nvr increase n bto flats too ex!
They want cheaper bto flats!
One couple can apply many many btos at one time....
I wonder if subscription rate will drop by half or more if application fee is raised to 1k:D
If they dunwan to choose a unit, forfeit 1k...:D
If they choose a unit, tat 1k forms part of their downpayment:D
If subscription still many times oversubscribed....i m convinced tat they r serious n genuine:D
They can't do that unless they start every block from the 5-6 floor onwards with those super high ceiling void decks. Imagine if you have to choose between losing 1k and facing the noisy MSCP. This isn't a condo layout where they are benefits to living on the lower floor with resort like pool view etc.
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:47
But during gd, ppl complain pay nvr increase n bto flats too ex!
They want cheaper bto flats!
People will never complain HDB prices are too cheap one.. They will either diam diam abt it or those greedier one will ask for even cheaper ones.. To be honest, for a couple to buy a 350k flat, monthly installment around 1k-1.2k only right? It means they don't even need to pay a single cent of cash. And HDB allow 90% loan!! I think majority of people are only complaining abt resale only
But during ge, ppl complain pay nvr increase n bto flats too ex!
They want cheaper bto flats!
I think the ones at punggol/sengkang are ok. But the one at dawson is too pricey. They should perhaps have made it under the DBSS scheme.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:49
There are 2 groups, one is the newly wed. 2 are the second timers who see a lot of demand for their resale flat. Singaporean are obsessed with anything and everything that is new.
U very right!
2nd timer! They see bto px vs their resale px difference more den 100k! Can even hit 200k.... N resale levy like 30-50k?
Shd impose heavier resale levy rite?
Imposing higher resale levy is just treating the problem symptomatically. One needs to address the crux which is the high demand of the resale flats and the rest will fall into place.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:53
People will never complain HDB prices are too cheap one.. They will either diam diam abt it or those greedier one will ask for even cheaper ones.. To be honest, for a couple to buy a 350k flat, monthly installment around 1k-1.2k only right? It means they don't even need to pay a single cent of cash. And HDB allow 90% loan!! I think majority of people are only complaining abt resale only
No! They want cheaper bto px...tats y opposition propose cost plus!:doh:
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:55
Imposing higher resale levy is just treating the problem symptomatically. One needs to address the crux which is the high demand of the resale flats and the rest will fall into place.
Yes! So its not bcoz bto supply not enuf...
Its bcoz resale px too high n cov is the killer...so 1st timer n 2nd timer all chiong to bto!:doh:
Ban pr from buying resale px will solve the prolem immediately!:D
No! They want cheaper bto px...tats y opposition propose cost plus!:doh:
They want cheaper BTOs at Dawson probably. I'm all for increasing the subsidy for first timers but if they expect to buy Dawson 5 room BTO at 350k, they are being unrealistic.
devilplate
21-05-11, 16:58
no lah.. 1 application at any one time. For eg, there are 4 May bto launches. They can only choose 1 to apply. the results will be out in 2 weeks. If fail, try again next month for a new set of launch. If pass, then go for selection. If u choose not to go, there is some penalty of reduced chances or what, not very sure..
No! My fren jus double cfm wif me tat can apply many many to get queue number! Dunwan to go for selection jus forfeit $10:doh:
linchong84
21-05-11, 16:58
No! They want cheaper bto px...tats y opposition propose cost plus!:doh:
I feel govt's problem is its slow supply of BTOs which led to resale prices jumping to crazy levels. If they reduce BTO prices, will it really help much when supply is still not enough? People will still need to resort to buying resale..
Yes! So its not bcoz bto supply not enuf...
Its bcoz resale px too high n cov is the killer...so 1st timer n 2nd timer all chiong to bto!:doh:
Ban pr from buying resale px will solve the prolem immediately!:D
Then your MM will cheong! :cheers1:
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:03
No! My fren jus double cfm wif me tat can apply many many to get queue number! Dunwan to go for selection jus forfeit $10:doh:
no lah.. confirm can only apply 1 every month.. your fren apply how many years ago?
Most likely HDB stagnant, supply incr a lot (cannot artificially drop now) by Govt, private properties left to free market with GLS, no reason to drop. All will drop from future high in future during recession. When & how much? Nobody really knows except god. Those who claim they know want to act god? who knows, future lows may be higher than current price. :eek:
Meaning pty prices should correct in 2 years somewhat? Many bought with the hope of appreciation but weak holders will bite the dust with interest rates go up up and away. Moreover, many TOPs in the next 2 years = many units up for rental and sale.:rolleyes:
I thought Dawson 4 bedrm bto already beyond 400k.
They want cheaper BTOs at Dawson probably. I'm all for increasing the subsidy for first timers but if they expect to buy Dawson 5 room BTO at 350k, they are being unrealistic.
It would be a popular move to see HDB prices stagnate.
proud owner
21-05-11, 17:06
This kind of quality can also.be head of research? I can be ceo of his firm anytime
Why not?
MBT also can be minister
Meredith Whitney was controversial but got her timing right. This guy is controversial and gets his timing wrong. That makes him look doubly as bad.
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:09
Ban PR from buying resale flats or set higher restrictions:D :D :D
PR can always rent hdb....citizens all happy!
Pr cant buy resale flats, px may drop abit or at least cov will drop to 5-10k! Den more 1st timer will buy resale instead ....and bto will hf less complaints:D
Pr either rent hdb or condo or even rooms....:D or balek kampong:D
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:11
I thought Dawson 4 bedrm bto already beyond 400k.
Bto shd only b avail in ulu birds dun lay eggs places n sell cheap cheap:D
I thought Dawson 4 bedrm bto already beyond 400k.
Yes, what I'm saying is maybe they can receive another 30k of subsidy but they should not expect to be able to buy Dawson 5 room at 350k.
Devilplate, you must have some BTO in prime areas otherwise you'll create a very distinct rich poor geographic divide. And that could be a source of many more problems.
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:15
Bto shd only b avail in ulu birds dun lay eggs places n sell cheap cheap:D
Then the rich-poor distinction will be very clear. Next election, ruling party can say sayonara already. And once that happen, property prices across singapore all drop. Your big money in bank might not even be guarenteed.. You sure u want that to happen?
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:22
Then the rich-poor distinction will be very clear. Next election, ruling party can say sayonara already. And once that happen, property prices across singapore all drop. Your big money in bank might not even be guarenteed.. You sure u want that to happen?
I dun see it happening tat way....
Rich n poor gap will always b there....y not launch some cheap btos in orchard?
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:23
Always try to think deep what the govt is mostly going to do for the next 5 years.. If they really intent to pull back the votes of low and middle income grp, then better buy with care.. Afterall, there aren't many policies that can please everyone. So, if they intend to close rich-poor gap, then guess who will be affected and what kind of properties will be affected?
Of course there can be policies that benefit everyone, but usually this means the govt will incur huge sum of expenses, which means they have to tax people more, and become unpopular again. But at this critical 5 years which is do or die for ruling party, you think they will take the risk? Or just do safe way and please majority?
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:23
Yes, what I'm saying is maybe they can receive another 30k of subsidy but they should not expect to be able to buy Dawson 5 room at 350k.
Devilplate, you must have some BTO in prime areas otherwise you'll create a very distinct rich poor geographic divide. And that could be a source of many more problems.
Yes....ask kbw to launch some btos in gcbs area n orchard road to narrow rich n poor gap:p
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:27
I dun see it happening tat way....
Rich n poor gap will always b there....y not launch some cheap btos in orchard?
It will always be there.. but if they make it more and more clearer, which way do you think votes will swing? U think they can afford another few GRCs being given away? u must understand once a grc is given away, it's very hard to win it back because to do so, they have to send a powerful minister there 5 years later, but they won't dare to do that cos it will put that guy in great risk. But if they send a weak minister, people won't vote for him. So once a grc is gone, it might be gone for a very long time. u think ruling party still dare to incur wrath of people by making rich-poor so distinct?
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:28
Always try to think deep what the govt is mostly going to do for the next 5 years.. If they really intent to pull back the votes of low and middle income grp, then better buy with care.. Afterall, there aren't many policies that can please everyone. So, if they intend to close rich-poor gap, then guess who will be affected and what kind of properties will be affected?
Of course there can be policies that benefit everyone, but usually this means the govt will incur huge sum of expenses, which means they have to tax people more, and become unpopular again. But at this critical 5 years which is do or die for ruling party, you think they will take the risk? Or just do safe way and please majority?
Must b fair to everyone....if launch similar priced btos in prime n ulu areas will create unhappiness....
Bto flats n resale flats, prices shdnt differ more den 20%
devilplate
21-05-11, 17:32
It will always be there.. but if they make it more and more clearer, which way do you think votes will swing? U think they can afford another few GRCs being given away? u must understand once a grc is given away, it's very hard to win it back because to do so, they have to send a powerful minister there 5 years later, but they won't dare to do that cos it will put that guy in great risk. But if they send a weak minister, people won't vote for him. So once a grc is gone, it might be gone for a very long time. u think ruling party still dare to incur wrath of people by making rich-poor so distinct?
By having hdb, condos n landed oredi causing rich poor gap....
Wat abt condos in orchard hitting 5kpsf? Shd govt aso set a ceiling? Y only super rich can stay in orchard n gcbs?:p
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:38
By having hdb, condos n landed oredi causing rich poor gap....
Wat abt condos in orchard hitting 5kpsf? Shd govt aso set a ceiling? Y only super rich can stay in orchard n gcbs?:p
Yes, there is already a rich poor gap. Now the challenge/goal is to reduce it. Not to eliminate or expand it. That will be the aim of the govt if they intend to win back votes. I feel votes for the rich are more or less guaranteed one. If you hold a lot of investments in singapore, u dare to vote the existing party our of govt and risk seeing your investment value halved overnight? Of course you can say some people are still not scared, eg serangoon garden people, but how many of this kind of people are there..
Believe it or not, govt will definitely try to please poor and middle income. No point striving for 10% gdp and get voted out of govt. They not stupid one.
Yes, there is already a rich poor gap. Now the challenge/goal is to reduce it. Not to eliminate or expand it. That will be the aim of the govt if they intend to win back votes. I feel votes for the rich are more or less guaranteed one. If you hold a lot of investments in singapore, u dare to vote the existing party our of govt and risk seeing your investment value halved overnight? Of course you can say some people are still not scared, eg serangoon garden people, but how many of this kind of people are there..
Believe it or not, govt will definitely try to please poor and middle income. No point striving for 10% gdp and get voted out of govt. They not stupid one.
er... What is the bad effect of big rich poor gap? Can the rich and the poor be happy together? Meaning if there isnt too much hardship for the poor, I dun think they will be bother if the top 20% have how much assets. Can this type of win win situation ever exist? :rolleyes:
linchong84
21-05-11, 17:47
er... What is the bad effect of big rich poor gap? Can the rich and the poor be happy together? Meaning if there isnt too much hardship for the poor, I dun think they will be bother if the top 20% have how much assets. Can this type of win win situation ever exist? :rolleyes:
People are unhappy because of high property prices.. This is not my assumption, it's what MBT say recently as he also admitted property prices shoot too high in the last few years.. So now he got the boot.. All these events still not obvious enough, then people are really blinded with optimism liao..
In particular, sharp increase in public housing index.
People are unhappy because of high property prices.. This is not my assumption, it's what MBT say recently as he also admitted property prices shoot too high in the last few years.. So now he got the boot.. All these events still not obvious enough, then people are really blinded with optimism liao..
Rich-poor gap will always be there, it is not the job of govt to close it. If so, they might as well declare communists rule and everyone will be equal instantly? Or otherwise they must give themselves pay of $100k a year instead of almost $3m a year to level their rich pay to those of the poor? They can instantly get the votes of all the poor and middle income (>70% of voters)? Not practical right! As long as the poorer are taken care of with cheap HDB housing, reasonable & fair paying jobs, manageable costs of living, who cares whether the rich earns millions or even billions a year and the prime and luxury properties selling at S$100k psf in Orchard? :D
If the poor dream of owning property in Orchard at cheap HDB price, you mean govt will have to build HDB in Orchard to cater for them? :doh:
It will always be there.. but if they make it more and more clearer, which way do you think votes will swing? U think they can afford another few GRCs being given away? u must understand once a grc is given away, it's very hard to win it back because to do so, they have to send a powerful minister there 5 years later, but they won't dare to do that cos it will put that guy in great risk. But if they send a weak minister, people won't vote for him. So once a grc is gone, it might be gone for a very long time. u think ruling party still dare to incur wrath of people by making rich-poor so distinct?
linchong84
21-05-11, 18:20
Rich-poor gap will always be there, it is not the job of govt to close it. If so, they might as well declare communists rule and everyone will be equal instantly? Or otherwise they must give themselves pay of $100k a year instead of almost $3m a year to level their rich pay to those of the poor? They can instantly get the votes of all the poor and middle income (>70% of voters)? Not practical right! As long as the poorer are taken care of with cheap HDB housing, reasonable & fair paying jobs, manageable costs of living, who cares whether the rich earns millions or even billions a year and the prime and luxury properties selling at S$100k psf in Orchard? :D
If the poor dream of owning property in Orchard at cheap HDB price, you mean govt will have to build HDB in Orchard to cater for them? :doh:
You read my above posts lah, i dun want to keep repeating. I say liao, they want to reduce the gap. Not ELIMINATE. Not EXPAND. Not going EXTREME.
Gap will always widen in developing countries. I do not think people are complaining about widening of gaps but the high living and housing costs. In a open market like Singapore, it will happen. In particular so in a small country with only human resource.
You read my above posts lah, i dun want to keep repeating. I say liao, they want to reduce the gap. Not ELIMINATE. Not EXPAND. Not going EXTREME.
linchong84
21-05-11, 18:32
Gap will always widen in developing countries. I do not think people are complaining about widening of gaps but the high living and housing costs. In a open market like Singapore, it will happen. In particular so in a small country with only human resource.
Everything is linked. The expanding rich-poor gap is causing cost of living to increase. Eg, rich people throw lots of money into properties, causing good demand, causing price increase, etc etc..
Rich people are throwing money into private properties - does that affect the poor? The answer is very obvious: NO! The poorer group are only concerned about:
1) HDB flats prices
2) transportation comfort and prices
3) prices of everyday necessity food (they are not concerned about the prices of dishes in restaurants, let alone celebrity-chef restaurants where each meal costs >$200 per head).
What you are wishing for is not the poor, but the greedy middle-income wanting everything associated with the rich. :p :D :D :D
Everything is linked. The expanding rich-poor gap is causing cost of living to increase. Eg, rich people throw lots of money into properties, causing good demand, causing price increase, etc etc..
rattydrama
21-05-11, 18:39
Anyone knows how much those ppl goto forfeit for bto flats if they dunwan?
Isit 5% of purchase px?
In 2004, it was 1K or 2K if one failed to exercise.
linchong84
21-05-11, 18:50
Rich people are throwing money into private properties - does that affect the poor? The answer is very obvious: NO! The poorer group are only concerned about:
1) HDB flats prices
2) transportation comfort and prices
3) prices of everyday necessity food (they are not concerned about the prices of dishes in restaurants, let alone celebrity-chef restaurants where each meal costs >$200 per head).
What you are wishing for is not the poor, but the greedy middle-income wanting everything associated with the rich. :p :D :D :D
I never wish for it lah.. I have nothing to gain if prices drop.. The problem now is the rich are causing cost of living to increase, until the poor are suffering and the middle losing hope of being rich.. That's why these 2 grps are upset..
Garment has underestimated the power of people. The surge in population (PRs) is a major cause of this problem. They have exploited the HDB resale and rental market. They compete with fellow singaporeans for good paying job while their dependents have taken the jobs of the elderly singaporean and force them to pick used boxes on the street. This starts to encourage more HDB dwellers to move to buy condos and push the market higher. Furthermore even our MM endorsed it.
Everything is linked. The expanding rich-poor gap is causing cost of living to increase. Eg, rich people throw lots of money into properties, causing good demand, causing price increase, etc etc..
No need to take it to the extreme of having BTO in orchard, just have some at the outkirts like what they are doing now will suffice. Your suggestion to have them all at bird on't lay egg places is too extreme.
The poor ones can still eat at hawker centre with chicken rice and mee pok noodle at $2 in some places. Rental is the real cause of increase in food prices in eateries.
I never wish for it lah.. I have nothing to gain if prices drop.. The problem now is the rich are causing cost of living to increase, until the poor are suffering and the middle losing hope of being rich.. That's why these 2 grps are upset..
rattydrama
21-05-11, 18:56
Yes, there is already a rich poor gap. Now the challenge/goal is to reduce it. Not to eliminate or expand it. That will be the aim of the govt if they intend to win back votes. I feel votes for the rich are more or less guaranteed one. If you hold a lot of investments in singapore, u dare to vote the existing party our of govt and risk seeing your investment value halved overnight? Of course you can say some people are still not scared, eg serangoon garden people, but how many of this kind of people are there..
Believe it or not, govt will definitely try to please poor and middle income. No point striving for 10% gdp and get voted out of govt. They not stupid one.
MBT mentioned big big in the midst of the election -- in 10-15 years time, gov will up the plot ratio of sites near MRTs and amenities areas for HDB to build tall tall flats, say 30 sty or so to meet the expectation and aspriation of our Singaporeans.
So clearly gov is concerned. But now he is gone will the message be passed on?
someone cut and paste to remind the new minister... he blogs alot & hope he reads this.
Compact housing will be the case near mrt. You should see it in the coming concept plan 2011.
MBT mentioned big big in the midst of the election -- in 10-15 years time, gov will up the plot ratio of sites near MRTs and amenities areas for HDB to build tall tall flats, say 30 sty or so to meet the expectation and aspriation of our Singaporeans.
So clearly gov is concerned. But now he is gone will the message be passed on?
someone cut and paste to remind the new minister... he blogs alot & hope he reads this.
Just look towards hong kong for a glimpse into our future.
rattydrama
21-05-11, 19:06
Compact housing will be the case near mrt. You should see it in the coming concept plan 2011.
compact / duo key....FEO & some other developers are adopting it now. they are forward looking. Big units now only suitable for end bloc...should have less demand in resale market.
demographic change ...demand change.....
really? :doh:
I suppose govt are not stuPid to believe this, otherwise a mistake on their new policy will cause all the rich to shift their business out of Singapore, leaving all poor & middle-income to become jobless!
Real reasons for high costs of living:
1) shops & stalls rental too high (incl hawker centers & coffee shops)
2) HDB supply too few
3) HDB prices too high
4) oil prices too high
5) public transport too crowded
6) too many mid & low income foreigners competing for jobs depressing salaries (so it is not the rich & rich foreigners fault, but the low & mid level foreigners fault causing most singaporeans to have stagnant wages despite high inflation!)
I never wish for it lah.. I have nothing to gain if prices drop.. The problem now is the rich are causing cost of living to increase, until the poor are suffering and the middle losing hope of being rich.. That's why these 2 grps are upset..
linchong84
21-05-11, 19:47
really? :doh:
I suppose govt are not stuPid to believe this, otherwise a mistake on their new policy will cause all the rich to shift their business out of Singapore, leaving all poor & middle-income to become jobless!
Real reasons for high costs of living:
1) shops & stalls rental too high (incl hawker centers & coffee shops)
2) HDB supply too few
3) HDB prices too high
4) oil prices too high
5) public transport too crowded
6) too many mid & low income foreigners competing for jobs depressing salaries (so it is not the rich & rich foreigners fault, but the low & mid level foreigners fault causing most singaporeans to have stagnant wages despite high inflation!)
Bro, singaporeans are complaining abt a lot of things, so the above u stated are right too.. But think deeper a bit.. A lot of things are by market forces, if a lot of money and demand never come into the market, u think price will jump for no reason? We dun need to discuss all day on what is the right policy.. What's most impt is what policy will govt undertake.. I feel mbt kena boot is becos he let market forces determine price for too long.. By the time he intervene, it's too late, prices gone up too high which makes poor and middle income pissed because too many of them didn't get to enjoy benefits as they own only 1 house.. So even if their house value has risen 4 times, there's no use cos if he sell it, he has to buy another house which might be even more expensive..Now the new guy is in, what do u think he will do? More intervention, measures will cool the market, majority might be happy cos at least it gives them some hope of eventually owning a pte.. If kbw remain status quo, people say he never do job, and mbt booted for nothing.. Remove measures set by mbt and let price go up even higher? Fat hope..
Should focus on supply and ownership.policies. too much cooling measures may result in unintended consequences.
linchong84
21-05-11, 20:16
Should focus on supply and ownership.policies. too much cooling measures may result in unintended consequences.
Like I say, they won't do extreme things.. They definitely wun crash the market.. But will u all be happy if he let the price stagnate or even correct 10% mbt himself admit property prices risen too high, I read the article, he din say private or public so we have to assume both.. So what will the new guy do? So if prices were to stagnate or correct (ie peak liao), u think people still want to buy? Of course if buy to stay will still buy, but invest one leh?
Focus on HDB market. Let market forces drive private property market. CM4 is sufficientto rein in speculation.
linchong84
21-05-11, 20:33
Focus on HDB market. Let market forces drive private property market. CM4 is sufficientto rein in speculation.
Sufficient or not depend on whether price continue to rise a lot. Looking at bishan and bendemeer bids, it may seem so? MBT being booted means that we will no longer see a bull chiong and chiong and chiong.. Now it's either around 10% correction, stagnate or a very insignificant rise ~2%. But this won't come so soon, perhaps cpl bishan launch will be the peak? Now after so many events, developers will definitely not dare to bid too high..
I dun think the spectacular price increase over the last 2 yrs were caused by MBT. It's caused by uncle Ben of the US Fed Reserve. Practically every major asian city saw a huge price jump in these 2 and half yrs. Places like HK Or Taipei has no such "PR" or "HDB" problem.
The fundamental reason of a lot of pp.'s unhappiness towards housing is simply greed. That i cannot buy my dream location HDB below 500k. That I cannot upgrade to a nice condo at below 1m.
These group can say whatever they want. Gov may even "listen" and bend the policies to make them happy.
Had COE be kept at 100k, our roads will be smooth today
We won't know why he got booted except his boss and himself. However, what I gather from many people is that they are barking up the wrong tree - People are complaining about HDB flats being unable to get and prices escalating and resale HDB prices too high and they can't upgrade etc and they come out with 4 cooling measures that are really effective in cooling private resale properties (but not HDB flats & new launch private properties! Rather, these policies make it even more difficult for people to upgrade to bigger HDB flats because of increase in family size). So I suppose that is the reason? :beats-me-man:
Why should the govt artificially make private properties cheap to allow the poor to buy? Anyway, private properties only make up <20% properties. All HDB upgraders want to upgrade? Who going to buy and live in HDB flats? Where to find so many private properties for these original HDB owners? Then you might as well tell govt to scrap building HDB flats and only build Govt-private properties for the poor to buy since they own almost all the free land available for building in Singapore now? :p
1 HDB flat not enough and now you telling the govt to make private properties so cheap that the poor can buy 2? :doh:
Bro, singaporeans are complaining abt a lot of things, so the above u stated are right too.. But think deeper a bit.. A lot of things are by market forces, if a lot of money and demand never come into the market, u think price will jump for no reason? We dun need to discuss all day on what is the right policy.. What's most impt is what policy will govt undertake.. I feel mbt kena boot is becos he let market forces determine price for too long.. By the time he intervene, it's too late, prices gone up too high which makes poor and middle income pissed because too many of them didn't get to enjoy benefits as they own only 1 house.. So even if their house value has risen 4 times, there's no use cos if he sell it, he has to buy another house which might be even more expensive..Now the new guy is in, what do u think he will do? More intervention, measures will cool the market, majority might be happy cos at least it gives them some hope of eventually owning a pte.. If kbw remain status quo, people say he never do job, and mbt booted for nothing.. Remove measures set by mbt and let price go up even higher? Fat hope..
Some greedy people will petition in the name of helping the poor to keep COE at $10 so that the poor will be able to buy 1 for their cars as well, since it is the aspiration of almost everybody (except the mentally retarded or mentally got problem) to want to own a car and own 2 private properties, 1 to live and 1 to rent for good rental income so that they can sit at home to shake legs and do nothing. :banghead:
The same is true for properties. These greedy ones see that 20 years ago 5 room HDB flats only $100k, private properties at similar location only $400k, so all HDB flats and private properties now are seriously overpriced! Actually, if you look at it, private:HDB is 4x 20 years ago! Now, at similar location, private:HDB only like 2x? (e.g. Tiong Bahru HDB vs private property)! Seem to me like HDB flats have escalated out of control vs private properties! :scared-1:
I dun think the spectacular price increase over the last 2 yrs were caused by MBT. It's caused by uncle Ben of the US Fed Reserve. Practically every major asian city saw a huge price jump in these 2 and half yrs. Places like HK Or Taipei has no such "PR" or "HDB" problem.
The fundamental reason of a lot of pp.'s unhappiness towards housing is simply greed. That i cannot buy my dream location HDB below 500k. That I cannot upgrade to a nice condo at below 1m.
These group can say whatever they want. Gov may even "listen" and bend the policies to make them happy.
Had COE be kept at 100k, our roads will be smooth today
PM Lee has heard the Singaporeans and asked NKF Chairman to chair a committee to review Ministers' salary tonight. What's next?
linchong84
21-05-11, 21:00
We won't know why he got booted except his boss and himself. However, what I gather from many people is that they are barking up the wrong tree - People are complaining about HDB flats being unable to get and prices escalating and resale HDB prices too high and they can't upgrade etc and they come out with 4 cooling measures that are really effective in cooling private resale properties (but not HDB flats & new launch private properties! Rather, these policies make it even more difficult for people to upgrade to bigger HDB flats because of increase in family size). So I suppose that is the reason? :beats-me-man:
Why should the govt artificially make private properties cheap to allow the poor to buy? Anyway, private properties only make up <20% properties. All HDB upgraders want to upgrade? Who going to buy and live in HDB flats? Where to find so many private properties for these original HDB owners? Then you might as well tell govt to scrap building HDB flats and only build Govt-private properties for the poor to buy since they own almost all the free land available for building in Singapore now? :p
1 HDB flat not enough and now you telling the govt to make private properties so cheap that the poor can buy 2? :doh:
teddybear, stop talking about the extremes.. i said many times, govt won't do extreme things.. i also never say they should make pte properties cheap so the poor can afford.. But he will make them within touch so that people will not lose hope and say govt never do work.. Now what people are wondering is not whether property market will crash because they know it wont unless there is external shocks.. What people are wondering is whether the new guy will control the price or continue let it soar, ie have we reached the peak.. Although MBT has left us, his parting interviews are already a very good parting present for people to predict what the new guy will be doing..
Most impt thing is u cannot always assume govt should do the right or logical thing, because they might not.. what you are suggesting is not wrong but a lot of selfish middle grp want things to be otherwise, and govt is eager to win their votes, what do you think will happen? poor want cheap hdb, middle hope to eventually buy pte, rich want prices to continue to rise.. obviously now it is rich versus middle+poor.. govt will not let price crash until everybody can buy 2 but they will still control the price if not how to earn their votes..
Seriously although people are angry with their pay, but they are most most angry with the insufficient HDB supply and escalating out of control HDB flats prices (both new sale and resale)! What are the solutions? Let people have their wish and stop PRs from buying resale HDB flats! If they want to buy HDB flats, convert to Citizens lah! New citizens can only buy resale HDB flats, only male converted citizens who had served NS then can buy new HDB flats. In this way, drive the PRs to private properties and govt can sell more land under GLS, earn more money and give back to Citizens and most people will be happy! Cannot afford private properties can complain mah? Anyway, there are ECs which are equivalent of Govt's god-given Citizen-private properties for Singapore citizens! These greedy citizens should thank the govt than still complaining! :p
PM Lee has heard the Singaporeans and asked NKF Chairman to chair a committee to review Ministers' salary tonight. What's next?
linchong84
21-05-11, 21:04
Seriously although people are angry with their pay, but they are most most angry with the insufficient HDB supply and escalating out of control HDB flats prices (both new sale and resale)! What are the solutions? Let people have their wish and stop PRs from buying resale HDB flats! If they want to buy HDB flats, convert to Citizens lah! New citizens can only buy resale HDB flats, only male converted citizens who had served NS then can buy new HDB flats. In this way, drive the PRs to private properties and govt can sell more land under GLS, earn more money and give back to Citizens and most people will be happy! Cannot afford private properties can complain mah? Anyway, there are ECs which are equivalent of Govt's god-given Citizen-private properties for Singapore citizens! These greedy citizens should thank the govt than still complaining! :p
I agree with this solution cos it will please the rich, middle and poor.. but actually will it make singapore less attractive for foreigners and pr? will it affect singapore's economy?
No! I have better solutions that the govt can surely win more votes! Instead of clamping down on rental of HDB flats, they should let singapore citizens rent out their HDB flats to PRs (once these citizens upgrade to private properties)!
Also, govt should always have free float of empty HDB flats that they can sell to citizens when demand from citizen increases, and demand slacks govt can rent to PRs. So, we have housing for all PRs but they can't own HDB flats, only private properties! PRs can only rent HDB flats (either from citizens or govt) or rent private properties or buy private properties! :cheers1:
Rich foreigners are always welcome as they come to spend money, create jobs, etc which will only help to increase singapore's GDPs!
I agree with this solution cos it will please the rich, middle and poor.. but actually will it make singapore less attractive for foreigners and pr? will it affect singapore's economy?
One couple can apply many many btos at one time....
I wonder if subscription rate will drop by half or more if application fee is raised to 1k:D
If they dunwan to choose a unit, forfeit 1k...:D
If they choose a unit, tat 1k forms part of their downpayment:D
If subscription still many times oversubscribed....i m convinced tat they r serious n genuine:DI'm definitely for this idea. Get them to put 1% of price as booking fee. If ballot fails, they'll get money back. If they forfeit, no money back. If successful, money becomes downpayment... hahaha!
teddybear, stop talking about the extremes.. i said many times, govt won't do extreme things.. i also never say they should make pte properties cheap so the poor can afford.. But he will make them within touch so that people will not lose hope and say govt never do work.. Now what people are wondering is not whether property market will crash because they know it wont unless there is external shocks.. What people are wondering is whether the new guy will control the price or continue let it soar, ie have we reached the peak.. Although MBT has left us, his parting interviews are already a very good parting present for people to predict what the new guy will be doing..
Most impt thing is u cannot always assume govt should do the right or logical thing, because they might not.. what you are suggesting is not wrong but a lot of selfish middle grp want things to be otherwise, and govt is eager to win their votes, what do you think will happen? poor want cheap hdb, middle hope to eventually buy pte, rich want prices to continue to rise.. obviously now it is rich versus middle+poor.. govt will not let price crash until everybody can buy 2 but they will still control the price if not how to earn their votes..Actually MBT already set the stage for this to happen... His successor will not want to be branded a failure so will ensure that the many land parcels sold for ECs will flourish. The strategy is as follows...
1. Low income: Adjust the income ceiling a little little bit to allow slightly more say 2% of 1st time buyer to buy BTO. May offer more subsidies with more terms and conditions attached like longer MOP, etc to qualify.
2. Middle income: push to the ECs category by increasing income ceiling to maybe $12k/mth. This will catch much more middle incomers and so they will be pleased and their MOP might be raised to 8 years or even keep at 5 years but after that, 4 year SSD kicks in so only after 9 years can EC owners sell without penalty.
3. Upper income: Keep condo prices as much stagnanted as possible or at most let it appreciate a little more. Although points 1 and 2 will indirectly affect the private condo prices, it will at most touch the OCR. Control the CCR and let it drag OCR upwards a little. Nothing much required to do for this 3rd catagory of people. :D
On hindsight, now that govt knows that there are so many potential 1st time buyers in the market, they should build more flats and scrap the BTO system for at least the next 10 years. Supply > demand so by next GE in 5 years, all 1st time or 2nd time buyers who can get flats through walk-in selection, will be so so so satisfied that they will guai guai vote PAP again....
My fren bot dawson resale few years ago, sold it and straightaway could upgrade to new freehold 3br condo in novena.
Many who bot resale hdb are sitting on hefty gains, would they buy another resale hdb w cov and higher reno costs after cashing out?
The young couples complain now becoz this sure win route to $$$ is now more expensive, so now they want it cheaper when they buy and more expensive than the rest when they sell.
I thought Dawson 4 bedrm bto already beyond 400k.
rattydrama
22-05-11, 09:44
On hindsight, now that govt knows that there are so many potential 1st time buyers in the market, they should build more flats and scrap the BTO system for at least the next 10 years. Supply > demand so by next GE in 5 years, all 1st time or 2nd time buyers who can get flats through walk-in selection, will be so so so satisfied that they will guai guai vote PAP again....
Ramp up the supply of basic hdb flats n we can see what happen. Maybe up the booking fees since it is now only few k. No ques n no BTO. Those who want better flat can Reno their own or go private/ ec.
Incentives say 60k for first time owner will help. Pr or half pr no incentives.
No need complex model.
Very fast will see results.
Salary and its increment cannot help them to achieve better housing. So, this is another way. They saw everyone upgrading to private from this mean and suddenly stop at them. Sure complain.
My fren bot dawson resale few years ago, sold it and straightaway could upgrade to new freehold 3br condo in novena.
Many who bot resale hdb are sitting on hefty gains, would they buy another resale hdb w cov and higher reno costs after cashing out?
The young couples complain now becoz this sure win route to $$$ is now more expensive, so now they want it cheaper when they buy and more expensive than the rest when they sell.
The young couples complain now becoz this sure win route to $$$ is now more expensive, so now they want it cheaper when they buy and more expensive than the rest when they sell.
.... and there is a very high chance the new government will listen to them. Welcome to the new era of Singapore : that everything is about winning votes ! :cool: Gone are the days where our forefathers implement totally unfair and even ruthless policies, for the greater long term good. We are now entering the inevitable stage, that populist and short term views prevail. SG had been insulated from this ugly truth of party politics all these years, but eventually we have to come to this, because the majority like it this way. This is democracy.
.... and there is a very high chance the new government will listen to them. Welcome to the new era of Singapore : that everything is about winning votes ! :cool: Gone are the days where our forefathers implement totally unfair and even ruthless policies, for the greater long term good. We are now entering the inevitable stage, that populist and short term views prevail. SG had been insulated from this ugly truth of party politics all these years, but eventually we have to come to this, because the majority like it this way. This is democracy.
and all complaints about all issues derived from high salaries of ministers.
If public can see that PAP leaderership share weal and woe, all is forgiven.
and all complaints about all issues derived from high salaries of ministers.
If public can see that PAP leaderership share weal and woe, all is forgiven.Or if after review, minister's salary divide by 10, then all is also forgiven... :o
devilplate
22-05-11, 11:19
Or if after review, minister's salary divide by 10, then all is also forgiven... :o
Half will b vy good oredi:D
Gerald ee...u can do it:D
Half will b vy good oredi:D
Gerald ee...u can do it:DYes I have confidence in Gerald ee, not Giam... He tackled the NKF issue impressively... :o
He seems to be a neutral person but still a MIW inside.
Yes I have confidence in Gerald ee, not Giam... He tackled the NKF issue impressively... :o
He seems to be a neutral person but still a MIW inside.Let's just watch what he says after the review... :o
yes i agree. which is why i think garmen will give more ah kong grants so that these couples can cash out and upgrade properties down the road.
no point lowering the price, let them buy cheaper but make prices stagnate, coz this same group will kpkb how come cannot sell for big bucks once their mop is over. :doh:
.... and there is a very high chance the new government will listen to them. Welcome to the new era of Singapore : that everything is about winning votes ! :cool: Gone are the days where our forefathers implement totally unfair and even ruthless policies, for the greater long term good. We are now entering the inevitable stage, that populist and short term views prevail. SG had been insulated from this ugly truth of party politics all these years, but eventually we have to come to this, because the majority like it this way. This is democracy.
yes i agree. which is why i think garmen will give more ah kong grants so that these couples can cash out and upgrade properties down the road.
no point lowering the price, let them buy cheaper but make prices stagnate, coz this same group will kpkb how come cannot sell for big bucks once their mop is over. :doh:Yes price must climb... its just about how fast or how slow... :o
It also depends how much you get paid, if you are paid $20k a month in your current job, hard to call it quits but if your pay is $5k or less, much easier to make the decision. It also depends on how confident you are in your business venture. I know some professionals who quit high paying jobs to set up eateries and they do well. Thai Express ceo only 35 but sold his biz for a cool $80 mil.
Tommie goh's son in law? Not a good example lah.. His wife is the boss, father in law as banker, the success rate is probably 70%.
yep, cheong too fast oso not healthy.
some things i agree that can be done:
1. give more ah kong grants to 1st time buyers
2. build more no-frills hdb
3. build more ecs
for land in good locations, they are premium scarce resources.
it will be imprudent to build basic hdb there coz it will command a high price after mop. so either build the most expensive hdb or sell to private developers to maximize the land's premium potential.
Yes price must climb... its just about how fast or how slow... :o
yep, cheong too fast oso not healthy.
some things i agree that can be done:
1. give more ah kong grants to 1st time buyers
2. build more no-frills hdb
3. build more ecs
for land in good locations, they are premium scarce resources.
it will be imprudent to build basic hdb there coz it will command a high price after mop. so either build the most expensive hdb or sell to private developers to maximize the land's premium potential.Build an EC in Sentosa Cove? All 99 LH!!! :spliff: Then raise income ceiling??? :D
kingkong1984
22-05-11, 13:44
No lah, EC at chua chu kang area better.
Dunnid sentosa cove juz build one next to nicoll highway mrt and i will make sure all in my clan camp for 1 unit each. But why should garmen devote such resources to benefit a small group of ppl to strike toto when the land can fetch high when sold to private developers?
Perhaps we should do away w hdb possibly launching in prime locations? This will eliminate 1st timers from applying many times and pick the one that will profit most.
Build an EC in Sentosa Cove? All 99 LH!!! :spliff: Then raise income ceiling??? :D
proud owner
22-05-11, 15:33
Yes I have confidence in Gerald ee, not Giam... He tackled the NKF issue impressively... :o
Sometimes I think, how is that NKF guy different from our govt?
He started NKF, he brought dialysis to everywhere where, he organized fund raising event etc etc, something that the govt didn't bother.
So he reward himself. What's wrong?
Tax payer"s money vs fund raising money ?
We should make MBT, WKS, LKY etc pay back the money. .?
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