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2013: Market crash or ghost towns?
by Colin Tan
04:47 AM Jun 10, 2011
In the past few months, there have been more warnings of a glut in the private housing market and the calls have become more strident.
More recently, this warning has been blared out as one of several events that could lead to the perfect storm that the market is headed for. This is the worst-case scenario which could unfold as early as 2013 if all the events - more supply, falling demand and higher interest rates - occur together to trigger a market crash.
Why 2013? Well, this is because an unprecedented number of housing units are expected to enter the market then. Official figures show that 32,359 units will be completed over 2013 and 2014. This is 85 per cent more than the 17,501 units expected this year and next year.
Meanwhile, demand from foreign buyers could fall as concerns about high housing prices and the influx of foreigners were magnified during the General Election and will be a catalyst for the review of immigration and housing policies.
Foreign buyers have been a big boost to the local property market in recent years. More recently, by one industry estimate, they accounted for a high 16 per cent of new housing sales in the first quarter of this year.
Interest rates in Singapore are presently at record lows because lending rates here track United States monetary policy. That has allowed buyers to pay less than 1 per cent interest on the first year of their mortgages. Most banking analysts, however, expect interest rates to begin rising later this year.
Finally, while growth forecasts for Singapore over the next five years at 4 to 6 per cent annually will underpin support from local buyers, a major unforeseen external crisis could still lead to a market crash.
How realistic is this scenario? For one, there are limits to how quickly the construction sector can expand its capacity to meet all of the new building demand. Remember, we are also ramping up our public housing stock and building ahead of demand. So, although the numbers will still be high compared to before, the supply will be more spaced out and not as announced.
The private residential leasing market also appears to be healthier than expected. Already, the number of leasing contracts for the first four months of this year is about 8 per cent higher than the corresponding period last year.
However, a word of caution here. Judging from the feedback I get from housing agents, I suspect more and more of the new tenants are locals and not expatriates. This shows that a growing number of locals are taking a position on the housing market cycle - they are renting for the time being, waiting to pick up units when prices correct.
As for interest rates rising this year, when have we heard this line before? About a year ago, I suspect, or even earlier. In fact, rates have declined further since the first call.
Yes, there is much stronger resistance from US law-makers to another round of quantitative easing but what happens if the US economy does not pick up in the second half of the year? Do we expect President Barack Obama who is seeking re-election in 2012 to sit back and do nothing? Personally, I would not bet a single dollar on it.
More and more, the US Federal Reserve's experience is beginning to be like that of the Bank of Japan, which has engaged in roughly two decades of quantitative easing. It is beginning to look like US rates will stay unusually low for far longer than many investors expect.
With the Fed, Bank of Japan and European Central Bank having rates at or near all-time lows, Asia, including Singapore, will be on the frontline of the struggle with cheap money and unprecedented liquidity.
Even if a private housing glut were to occur in 2013 or earlier, there is little incentive for the majority of investors to sell off their properties so long as housing loan rates and holding costs remain low. And if there is little or minimal change to our private housing policies, I suspect we are more likely to see ghost towns in 2013 than experience a market crash.
Colin Tan is head, research and consultancy, at Chesterton Suntec International.
Wild Falcon
13-06-11, 11:22
HUH? A lot of ghosttowns in Singapore and have no impact on property prices? Ghost-towns with no tenants and no returns and investors continue to hold on to a non-yielding asset? He must be dreaming. If Singapore becomes a ghost-town, u can be sure property values will be impacted in some form or manner.
Depends on how long the properties remain vacant. There is a lag time for prices to follow rentals. If it's less than 1 year, I doubt prices will decline in any significance
HUH? A lot of ghosttowns in Singapore and have no impact on property prices? Ghost-towns with no tenants and no returns and investors continue to hold on to a non-yielding asset? He must be dreaming. If Singapore becomes a ghost-town, u can be sure property values will be impacted in some form or manner.
i think he meant those who bought have the mean to hold. so even with oversupply scenario and price do dip, these owners will not panic sell, so market impact is not as great as expected
proud owner
13-06-11, 15:38
i think he meant those who bought have the mean to hold. so even with oversupply scenario and price do dip, these owners will not panic sell, so market impact is not as great as expected
i remember in 2006 i went to view a unit in Valley park ... about 1700-ish sqft
at that time , it was at least 5 yr old ...
but i was shock to see that it was ORIGINAL condition ..
as in the wires still dangling from the ceiling ...
agent told me ...unit belonged to some indonesian ... in fact he had a few units
all bought during launch ..but never rented/sold ..
so its considered BRAND NEW ...
i believe there are still such units available ...
i remember in 2006 i went to view a unit in Valley park ... about 1700-ish sqft
at that time , it was at least 5 yr old ...
but i was shock to see that it was ORIGINAL condition ..
as in the wires still dangling from the ceiling ...
agent told me ...unit belonged to some indonesian ... in fact he had a few units
all bought during launch ..but never rented/sold ..
so its considered BRAND NEW ...
i believe there are still such units available ...
If you notice any TOP units without curtain, most likely they are left in original condition.
HUH? A lot of ghosttowns in Singapore and have no impact on property prices? Ghost-towns with no tenants and no returns and investors continue to hold on to a non-yielding asset? He must be dreaming. If Singapore becomes a ghost-town, u can be sure property values will be impacted in some form or manner.
How about those people who hold GOLD?
I know of someone who wanted to sold his balestier condo at the peak of 2007 but the crisis happened and buyers languished.....he found a willing buyer and sold to him.... rented a place and wanted to buy even cheaper.... but the market rebounded so fast so high that he is still renting now.....and can't find a place to stay.....
Seriously, those people who are taking a position by renting is going to face issues as prices are just inflated to a level that it supports by itself and even if prices do correct, they won't go down by much.... because costs of everything thing including land, building materials have gone up so much.
What makes us think our S$2 noodle per bowl or S$2 chicken rice is going to come back again?
Singapore has two 2 x IRs, Formula and even Australia V-8 racing is using Singapore as HQ to ramp up it's daytona racing marketing.... The attraction to work, live in Singapore in the eyes of the foreigners now is very different from the past.
As much as Singaporeans are upset and the young are upset about not having their cake and eat it.... we still have to live with it.
Bottomline is Singapore is enjoying so much international attention and economic security and stability that having anything like a major dip in housing market prices is simply too uninviting and dangerous that our lovely govt will do anything to prevent it from happening! :) Oversupply is indeed a cause for concern but certainly the govt is more concerned than us for they stand to lose much more than us should such a scenario materializes!:p
I know of someone who wanted to sold his balestier condo at the peak of 2007 but the crisis happened and buyers languished.....he found a willing buyer and sold to him.... rented a place and wanted to buy even cheaper.... but the market rebounded so fast so high that he is still renting now.....and can't find a place to stay.....
Seriously, those people who are taking a position by renting is going to face issues as prices are just inflated to a level that it supports by itself and even if prices do correct, they won't go down by much.... because costs of everything thing including land, building materials have gone up so much.
What makes us think our S$2 noodle per bowl or S$2 chicken rice is going to come back again?
Singapore has two 2 x IRs, Formula and even Australia V-8 racing is using
Singapore as HQ to ramp up it's daytona racing marketing.... The attraction to work, live in Singapore in the eyes of the foreigners now is very different from the past.
As much as Singaporeans are upset and the young are upset about not having their cake and eat it.... we still have to live with it.
Don't playnwith the house you are staying... Very dangerous to rent.... Ifnmarket don't go down in 2-3 years after you sold, all the gains you make will be gone Liao...
Don't playnwith the house you are staying... Very dangerous to rent.... Ifnmarket don't go down in 2-3 years after you sold, all the gains you make will be gone Liao...Totally agreed... never play with the house you're staying... if not for yourself, also for your family members unless you're alone and don't mind renting... :sleep:
linchong84
15-06-11, 19:12
Don't worry guys.. market is still red red red hot.. Sim Lian just released their Tampines DBSS project price range(800m away from MRT, walkable or not subjective)..
4-room flat (83sqm or 893sqft) : 531k to 683k.. Means the price is up to 765psf for this (1) outskirt OCR, (2)not near MRT and (3) 4-room HDB..
5-room (108sqm or 1163sqft) : 685k to 880k.. Means the price is up to 757psf for this (1) outskirt OCR, (2)not near MRT and (3) 5-room HDB..
Somemore this 5-room DBSS has 2 balconies, big aircon ledge, 3 bedrooms and a study, kitchen, yard, storeroom.. How did they manage to squeeze so many things into 1163 sqft..
Anyway the record is set.. 765psf for outskirt OCR, not near MRT and 4-room HDB.. We should be seeing 1kpsf for RCR, near MRT HDB soon.. Mass market condos should now be priced at least 1.4k psf?? hahahaha!!
$1.4k psf is still a little high but the new OCR price is normalizing at around $1.2k psf across many districts. Well DBSS cannot be compared with private condos the way BTO is compared to private condos. If DBSS is at $750 psf, private condo is probably some 300 to 400 psf more. Certainly not 700 psf more lah!!! If that is so, those private property owners haut big time loh! :p
linchong84
15-06-11, 19:25
$1.4k psf is still a little high but the new OCR price is normalizing at around $1.2k psf across many districts. Well DBSS cannot be compared with private condos the way BTO is compared to private condos. If DBSS is at $750 psf, private condo is probably some 300 to 400 psf more. Certainly not 700 psf more lah!!! If that is so, those private property owners haut big time loh! :p
Bro, DBSS and BTO got no difference one, they are still HDB hahaha.. The only difference is the DBSS layout is shittier, the whole unit is smaller but they came with flooring, completed bathrooms, wardrobes and kitchen cabinets.. That's all.. So if you ask me, i think BTO is better haha..
Anyway, Tampines has 2 DBSS.. The first one is called Premiere, it just TOPed 1-2 years ago.. During its launch, the price was 300+k - 400k for a 5-room flat.. Now, Sim Lian launching this 2nd Tamp DBSS, situated just next to Premiere and pricing it at more than 2 times more expensive yet with a smaller area.. woohoo.. how hot can the market get??? HUAT AH!!
thomastansb
15-06-11, 19:28
And what makes you think it will go down as much as what you have paid for 3 years of rental? Of course, no risk no gain. But this one is high risk, low gain.
Don't playnwith the house you are staying... Very dangerous to rent.... Ifnmarket don't go down in 2-3 years after you sold, all the gains you make will be gone Liao...
More expensive than older OCR condo. Now we can see why KBW concern, concern that people still buy condo instead of his HDB BTO in mature estates.
I think the young still living in duxton pinnacle days when it was still cheap in mature estate.
Now the young are getting a shock because still so difficult to afford!:scared-1:
linchong84
15-06-11, 19:39
More expensive than older OCR condo. Now we can see why KBW concern, concern that people still buy condo instead of his HDB BTO in mature estates.
I think the young still living in duxton pinnacle days when it was still cheap in mature estate.
Now the young are getting a shock because still so difficult to afford!:scared-1:
Good lah good lah... Now all the economics books have to be re-written. Increasing supply will ------> increasing prices!!!!
Time to increase HDB COV and rental!!! Let Singapore be an INCREASING country!!!
Dbss at 880k really takes the cake for me. This feels more like EC pricing than HDB apts.
And those young couples think raising the income ceiling is good for them. They haven't factor in the fact that developers may build more pricey homes...
Double bay residences was like only 780k last time for the 3 bedroom unit! Now DBSS 880k ?! :scared-3:
Tanumy must be delighted. He kept harping on double bay.
Better to rent now. If have to buy such expensive DBSS then renting is much better..
Let's see how much rent can they hike with all the property coming online..
Better to rent now. If have to buy such expensive DBSS then renting is much better..
Let's see how much rent can they hike with all the property coming online..With housing oversupply, rental will come down!!! :scared-4: Good if you rent but no good if you are landlord!!! :banghead:
Anyone concerned with Greece default?
Street protests.. Greece might decide to default..
US Inflation..
..working in Investment bank is scary :-(
But how come it scares only me? Lot of european bank will suffer if Greece defaults.. will hit everyone like Lehman when ppl only laugh at us guys at start and then cry cry later
Anyone concerned with Greece default?
Street protests.. Greece might decide to default..
US Inflation..
..working in Investment bank is scary :-(
But how come it scares only me? Lot of european bank will suffer if Greece defaults.. will hit everyone like Lehman when ppl only laugh at us guys at start and then cry cry laterNot sure if this is related but Greece economy is really suffering even in the hotel sector. My friend just returned from Greece and said that its only 22 euros to stay in a hotel per night, like S$40... much cheaper than hotel 81 or any hotels in Geylang!! :scared-1:
thomastansb
15-06-11, 21:44
They get what they ask for :)
Dbss at 880k really takes the cake for me. This feels more like EC pricing than HDB apts.
And those young couples think raising the income ceiling is good for them. They haven't factor in the fact that developers may build more pricey homes...
thomastansb
15-06-11, 21:46
As many have pointed out, don't play with your only house. It takes 3 years to wipe out any potential gain. Unless you go JB to stay. Rental is expected to stay strong for the next 2 years. Supply glut is only onboard earliest 2013 if the developers work hard enough.
Better to rent now. If have to buy such expensive DBSS then renting is much better..
Let's see how much rent can they hike with all the property coming online..
rattydrama
15-06-11, 21:48
Don't worry guys.. market is still red red red hot.. Sim Lian just released their Tampines DBSS project price range(800m away from MRT, walkable or not subjective)..
4-room flat (83sqm or 893sqft) : 531k to 683k.. Means the price is up to 765psf for this (1) outskirt OCR, (2)not near MRT and (3) 4-room HDB..
5-room (108sqm or 1163sqft) : 685k to 880k.. Means the price is up to 757psf for this (1) outskirt OCR, (2)not near MRT and (3) 5-room HDB..
Somemore this 5-room DBSS has 2 balconies, big aircon ledge, 3 bedrooms and a study, kitchen, yard, storeroom.. How did they manage to squeeze so many things into 1163 sqft..
Anyway the record is set.. 765psf for outskirt OCR, not near MRT and 4-room HDB.. We should be seeing 1kpsf for RCR, near MRT HDB soon.. Mass market condos should now be priced at least 1.4k psf?? hahahaha!!
Do you know what is the price range for BTO? I heard from 2 friends is 600K not sure if its a 4-room or 5-room. Is it true? The location is Yishun and CCK.
kingkong1984
15-06-11, 21:50
Go direct to EC better.
As many have pointed out, don't play with your only house. It takes 3 years to wipe out any potential gain. Unless you go JB to stay. Rental is expected to stay strong for the next 2 years. Supply glut is only onboard earliest 2013 if the developers work hard enough.
Am a single guy lah ;-)
Can stay anywhere for now,renting is cheaper compared to paying for bank interest and maintainace fees lah..
Rather buy nice unit in few years time..
I prefer stock market...use REITS...Can diversify all over the world property.. no need cry cry if singapore property go down...Also commercial property is better yield.. but commericial REIT..7-8% yields..also got 30% rise when market came up..
I prefer that ...
Singapore is where I earn.. if singapore goes down lose my Job and property both..why take big risk.. diversify
Do you know what is the price range for BTO? I heard from 2 friends is 600K not sure if its a 4-room or 5-room. Is it true? The location is Yishun and CCK.
from hdb website, jun/jul bto pricing not out.
based on may-bto pricing, most expensive is tampines 5rm 440k; so i dun think coming bto will price at 600k so expensive la
rattydrama
15-06-11, 21:55
If OCR DBSS is in the range of 8xxK, has KBW addressed the issue of our young population? :hell-hath-no-fury: Even he releases 1m units is not going to help cos its either too small or too expensive.
I thought HDB flats are subsidized by govt but why is it still so expensive.
It can fight with the pte ppty in certain areas.
If all the developers can hold on to their units and stand firm with their selling price (ie no reducing of price), then the buyers will have no choice if they want to have their own ppty.
Govt keeps on releasing the lands and developers keep on bidding and then KBW steps out to say that there is oversupply of housing, then people start to hold back their buying power waiting for the ppty to drop, then grap. Foreigners with cash rich will grap first, then is it ppty will go up again, all these will benefit those with cash rich people and the rich are getting richer and the average people with invested ppty in hand will suffer. Developers will get stuck too with lesser buyers. Ppty agents also lose some of their commission and govt collect lesser tax.:scared-2:
In the first place, since govt knows that there will be oversupply of ppty, then they shouldn't keep on releasing the lands, now it affect so many people. I hope the ppty prices is moderate out but not a big drop. This is no good for the economy also.:scared-5:
linchong84
15-06-11, 21:56
Do you know what is the price range for BTO? I heard from 2 friends is 600K not sure if its a 4-room or 5-room. Is it true? The location is Yishun and CCK.
Your friend talk cock lah.. Yishun, CCK area 5-room BTO at most 3xxk..
rattydrama
15-06-11, 21:57
Your friend talk cock lah.. Yishun, CCK area 5-room BTO at most 3xxk..
so its dbss?
linchong84
15-06-11, 21:59
Go direct to EC better.
The EC at Tamp ave 8 is launching soon too.. Most likely 7xxpsf also one lah.. Maybe cheaper than this DBSS.. WAHAHAHAHA
I wonder, is Sim Lian the stupid one for launching this DBSS too high priced or are buyers the stupid one for paying so much for this kind of HDB? No matter what, we will see at least 1 stupid 2 weeks later..
linchong84
15-06-11, 22:01
so its dbss?
Yah.. I guess your friend is talking about DBSS lah.. DBSS are blood sucking developments.. They are the same as BTOs but with some reno that maybe cost less than 20k.. But they cost higher than BTO by 200-300k..
But i guess this Tamp DBSS will break new grounds by costing 300-400k higher than the BTO that is launched beside it 2-3 weeks ago.. Somemore that BTO is bigger in size.. Such irony huh..
They get what they ask for :)
that's why from the start i felt that raising income ceiling could prove to be a futile move. if developers have the ability to set prices, how can they not notice that their target segment has suddenly more disposable income?
i believe that raising income ceiling could in fact have the unintended side effect of raising prices. the fact that Sim Lian has the guts to price its DBSS at such prices is evidence of that.
it's akin to more child care grant given, within that month after the announcement, the principal of the child care will send you a love letter in no more than 1000 words telling you that they have to raise fees to address the rising cost of pre-school education.
Not sure if this is related but Greece economy is really suffering even in the hotel sector. My friend just returned from Greece and said that its only 22 euros to stay in a hotel per night, like S$40... much cheaper than hotel 81 or any hotels in Geylang!! :scared-1:
how about the PPI in greece? did it drop? not the purchasing power index kind. the other kind of PPI.
how about the PPI in greece? did it drop? not the purchasing power index kind. the other kind of PPI.Not sure what are you talking about?
I thought HDB flats are subsidized by govt but why is it still so expensive.
It can fight with the pte ppty in certain areas.
If all the developers can hold on to their units and stand firm with their selling price (ie no reducing of price), then the buyers will have no choice if they want to have their own ppty.
Govt keeps on releasing the lands and developers keep on bidding and then KBW steps out to say that there is oversupply of housing, then people start to hold back their buying power waiting for the ppty to drop, then grap. Foreigners with cash rich will grap first, then is it ppty will go up again, all these will benefit those with cash rich people and the rich are getting richer and the average people with invested ppty in hand will suffer. Developers will get stuck too with lesser buyers. Ppty agents also lose some of their commission and govt collect lesser tax.:scared-2:
In the first place, since govt knows that there will be oversupply of ppty, then they shouldn't keep on releasing the lands, now it affect so many people. I hope the ppty prices is moderate out but not a big drop. This is no good for the economy also.:scared-5:Of course govt knows what they are doing. Its just that we don't know what they are doing! They release land after land for reasons only they know. We'll just watch the space and hope everything will be positive... :D
In the first place, since govt knows that there will be oversupply of ppty, then they shouldn't keep on releasing the lands, now it affect so many people. I hope the ppty prices is moderate out but not a big drop. This is no good for the economy also.:scared-5:
Sim Lian is helping to do their part in moderating prices upwards rather than going for a big drop?
Am a single guy lah ;-)
Can stay anywhere for now,renting is cheaper compared to paying for bank interest and maintainace fees lah..
Rather buy nice unit in few years time..
I prefer stock market...use REITS...Can diversify all over the world property.. no need cry cry if singapore property go down...Also commercial property is better yield.. but commericial REIT..7-8% yields..also got 30% rise when market came up..
I prefer that ...
Singapore is where I earn.. if singapore goes down lose my Job and property both..why take big risk.. diversify
For a one million loan interest is 800 bucks per month, maintenance is 300 per month... Property tax is 100 per month... Where can you rent for 1200 per month? Plus property can leverage, stock a very dangerous to leverage got margin call, property no margin call
Sim Lian is helping to do their part in moderating prices upwards rather than going for a big drop?
Boycott them... There are so many reasonable prices condos aroud why buy dbss siow...
linchong84
15-06-11, 23:24
Boycott them... There are so many reasonable prices condos aroud why buy dbss siow...
Shouldn't boycott.. In fact should encourage others to buy.. Make it a sellout on launch day.. Then developers will feel that the prices are not high enough and launch condo projects at super high prices.. Rental will be pull up too.. Good good good!!
Boycott them... There are so many reasonable prices condos aroud why buy dbss siow...
i think they might sweat if people boycott them, wasn't there an article recently that stated Sim Lian as one of the developers with the highest amount of inventory warehouse?
Shouldn't boycott.. In fact should encourage others to buy.. Make it a sellout on launch day.. Then developers will feel that the prices are not high enough and launch condo projects at super high prices.. Rental will be pull up too.. Good good good!!
i remember going to natura loft's showflat. 30+ floor for 720k. doesn't that sound cheap at hindsight. :cheers1:
thomastansb
15-06-11, 23:38
Fully agree. Just look at the first DBSS in Tampines. It looks like any HDB now isn't it? They pay a premium for it but I think those in Punggol looks nicer. I rather they go for EC. At least got facilities, security etc. Just like a Condo. DBSS is just a nicer future HDB flat. It will be comparable with other HDB 2 years down the road.
Yah.. I guess your friend is talking about DBSS lah.. DBSS are blood sucking developments.. They are the same as BTOs but with some reno that maybe cost less than 20k.. But they cost higher than BTO by 200-300k..
But i guess this Tamp DBSS will break new grounds by costing 300-400k higher than the BTO that is launched beside it 2-3 weeks ago.. Somemore that BTO is bigger in size.. Such irony huh..
thomastansb
15-06-11, 23:40
No use one. People will still buy. Genuine demand I guess.
Boycott them... There are so many reasonable prices condos aroud why buy dbss siow...
linchong84
15-06-11, 23:44
Fully agree. Just look at the first DBSS in Tampines. It looks like any HDB now isn't it? They pay a premium for it but I think those in Punggol looks nicer. I rather they go for EC. At least got facilities, security etc. Just like a Condo. DBSS is just a nicer future HDB flat. It will be comparable with other HDB 2 years down the road.
Hmm.. found out something.. the tampines BTO that was launched 2 weeks ago situated beside this DBSS is not very expensive.. the priciest unit is 440k (110 sqm).. This DBSS priciest unit is 880k (108sqm).. 2 times more exp and smaller!!!:eek:
Hmm.. found out something.. the tampines BTO that was launched 2 weeks ago situated beside this DBSS is not very expensive.. the priciest unit is 440k (110 sqm).. This DBSS priciest unit is 880k (108sqm).. 2 times more exp and smaller!!!:eek:
throw in $120k worth of ID reno and it'll still be cheaper.
kingkong1984
16-06-11, 03:39
Sim lian is one with a lot of interest in tampines.
A risky buy there... Peak time with peak HDB prices, how does that sound? Like this, the next EC 1 million already. The one near to mrt at choa chu kang beside Mi Casa.
Geylang OKT
16-06-11, 06:58
Colin Tan has to write that way now because he kena whacked left, right & centre from angry property owners due to his actual opinion... that a crash (and a deep one at that), is imminent :)
throw in $120k worth of ID reno and it'll still be cheaper.Totally agreed! This is getting really irrational! DBSS is too pricey! Get an EC instead. For $880k, can get a 3 bedder EC easily and may even get a low floor 4 bedder! :p Austville asking $866k for a 4 bedder 1227 sqft. :doh:
Colin Tan has to write that way now because he kena whacked left, right & centre from angry property owners due to his actual opinion... that a crash (and a deep one at that), is imminent :)Never take his words literally... he wrote so many articles and some are conflicting with one another! First he said crash, then he changed his mind later... just read for entertainment, nothing more! :spliff:
For a one million loan interest is 800 bucks per month, maintenance is 300 per month... Property tax is 100 per month... Where can you rent for 1200 per month? Plus property can leverage, stock a very dangerous to leverage got margin call, property no margin call
You are assuming interest rate will stay low forever..they won't in few years time.. 30 Year mortgage is a long time..2 year 1% won't help..:doh:
Renting - I can leave singapore if too expensive or goes belly down... Enjoy best of the whole world..keep moving to best locations... if bring too many FT crime and infrastructure will go bad anyway..:banghead:
Sim lian is one with a lot of interest in tampines.
A risky buy there... Peak time with peak HDB prices, how does that sound? Like this, the next EC 1 million already. The one near to mrt at choa chu kang beside Mi Casa.
Heard they have waterView in tampines also not selling.. Bad situation for them..think they missed the boat :scared-3:
You are assuming interest rate will stay low forever..they won't in few years time.. 30 Year mortgage is a long time..2 year 1% won't help..:doh:
Renting - I can leave singapore if too expensive or goes belly down... Enjoy best of the whole world..keep moving to best locations... if bring too many FT crime and infrastructure will go bad anyway..:banghead:
Your options are funny.... Uproot your family just because prices high? Don't you need to work? So go other country find work coz you want to avoid high rent?
Interest rates doesn't need to stay low for 30 years, just low in the next three years and prices will continue to run up for another 10-15 per cent, and then you gotta pray prices come down in another 1-2 years so goal of 5 years rental you have to pay...
And if it comes down to only 2011 level, then you are back to square one.... Must pray it plunge by more than 30% then you gain.... I think not often you get prices plunging by 30%...
I think better be safe buy a small unit now first, then keep some bullets, and if prices drop then buy another unit preferably a bigger unit... And wIt for the upturn.. At least you have a roof over your head...
thomastansb
16-06-11, 09:42
That is why I don't know what is in their brains. Even if take an average of 750k, I rather go for condo at Pasir Ris. DBSS is just a HDB. Same built, same MOP, everything same. Carpark need to pay $90 also. For some who want to show off, DBSS also useless. No facilities, nothing at all. Just another HDB.
Hmm.. found out something.. the tampines BTO that was launched 2 weeks ago situated beside this DBSS is not very expensive.. the priciest unit is 440k (110 sqm).. This DBSS priciest unit is 880k (108sqm).. 2 times more exp and smaller!!!:eek:
Your options are funny.... Uproot your family just because prices high? Don't you need to work? So go other country find work coz you want to avoid high rent?
Interest rates doesn't need to stay low for 30 years, just low in the next three years and prices will continue to run up for another 10-15 per cent, and then you gotta pray prices come down in another 1-2 years so goal of 5 years rental you have to pay...
And if it comes down to only 2011 level, then you are back to square one.... Must pray it plunge by more than 30% then you gain.... I think not often you get prices plunging by 30%...
I think better be safe buy a small unit now first, then keep some bullets, and if prices drop then buy another unit preferably a bigger unit... And wIt for the upturn.. At least you have a roof over your head...
It won't sound funny in a year's time..
BTW Am not singaporean..I just work here and there.. Like to move around.. But been long time struck in SG now.. looking to set permanent base now..
We are where best stuff is..SG is where growth is right now.. few year, growth somewhere else.. go there.. Never tied down..
Neighbourhood go down, move on
I work on finance too...Play stock..and probably can do more calculations then u can..
When u buy property u make downPayment..20% ..u lose money earned on 20% Payment for 3-4 years till TOP.. Plus u start paying interest even before TOP for what? Lose money lose money..and then when house rise 2% u get happy..
After waiting for 4-5 years if get 2% return what big deal.. u pay more in interest and income lost..
Problem with SG people :banghead: is they think price only rise and rise 10% every year..not true... ask US guys.. its easy to go from undeveloped to developed country.. which SG is now.. where to go now? Only Downhill or stay static..:tongue3:
Companies not stupid..u see Guy in US ask for 90K..SG guy ask 140K cause can;t afford house.. company take US guy.. US guy still happy cause eveything cheap there...
Sg go down I go to US too.. take 90K.. u take urs overExpensive property and wait for renter and buyers :hell-hath-no-fury:
rockinsg, if SG is "Only Downhill", where are you going ? let say if you still want to remain in Asia ? does the next city you go have a better housing environment ?
It won't sound funny in a year's time..
BTW Am not singaporean..I just work here and there.. Like to move around.. But been long time struck (stuck?) in SG now.. looking to set permanent base now..
We are where best stuff is..SG is where growth is right now.. few year, growth somewhere else.. go there.. Never tied down..
Neighbourhood go down, move on
I work on finance too...Play stock..and probably can do more calculations then u can..
When u buy property u make downPayment..20% ..u lose money earned on 20% Payment for 3-4 years till TOP.. Plus u start paying interest even before TOP for what? Lose money lose money..and then when house rise 2% u get happy..
After waiting for 4-5 years if get 2% return what big deal.. u pay more in interest and income lost..
Problem with SG people :banghead: is they think price only rise and rise 10% every year..not true... ask US guys.. its easy to go from undeveloped to developed country.. which SG is now.. where to go now? Only Downhill or stay static..:tongue3:
Companies not stupid..u see Guy in US ask for 90K..SG guy ask 140K cause can;t afford house.. company take US guy.. US guy still happy cause eveything cheap there...
Sg go down I go to US too.. take 90K.. u take urs overExpensive property and wait for renter and buyers :hell-hath-no-fury: No quite sure what your goal is? moving around to chase for the best stuffs or settle down for long term? You said both in your posting which is self-contradictory
If you want to move around, real estate at its best capacity is only an investment vehicle to you, so renting may actually make more sense for your. Since you mentioned that you work in finance, play stock, and can do better calculation, I suppose that you are a seasoned equity investor. To you real estate is not a good investment in the SG context as it requires (1) 20% down payment (2) pay interest before TOP (3) low return
For completed properties, your complaint (2) is not an issue at all
For any investments, initial cash outflow are common, can you invest in stock without any initial cash outflow?
Residential properties potentially allow your LTV 80% which means 4x debt to equity, which may not be as high as what stock/Fx/derivatives can offer, but you also won't get margin call so easily. it is a give and take
Have you ever come across any investment that guarantees you for high return? for every investment you need to do your own work and bear the result of your decision, profit or loss. Same rules apply to property investment. If you do think that SG property at most have 2% upside potential in the next 4-5 years, of course don't invest. In 5 years you may laugh at those who are bullish now, or look at them who earn reasonable returns from their property investment. Again, no right or wrong, your own decision
However, if you are looking to settle down at least for mid term, say 5-7 years, you may want to look at property differently, as it turns your housing need from an expense to investment. Since you can do good calculation, you must can do your math. Just one thing to bear in mind, there is no free lunch: you either pay your own mortgage installment, or pay your landlord's. Renting or owning is still your choice
One last thing I want to point out: are you sure you can move around so freely? Are you a US PR or citizen? Can you go to US and find yourself a job any time? Is there really a job that in US pay 90K but in SG pay 140K? I seriously doubt. Not sure what you mean by everything cheaper in US? do you mean housing? do you know what's the mortgage interest rate in US and normally what's the mortgage tenure there? Do you know what's the property tax rate there? the total cost of owning a house in US is not necessary cheaper than in SG
After all, can you find any country in the world whose government is as friendly to foreigners as Singapore? You are free to leave any time, but it may not be easy for you to find something better
Are you a US PR or citizen? Can you go to US and find yourself a job any time? Is there really a job that in US pay 90K but in SG pay 140K? I seriously doubt. Not sure what you mean by everything cheaper in US? do you mean housing? do you know what's the mortgage interest rate in US and normally what's the mortgage tenure there? Do you know what's the property tax rate there? the total cost of owning a house in US is not necessary cheaper than in SG
There are other considerations to work in US
taxes are the killer, income tax, sale tax.......all these will take away more than 50% of the pay depends on the state ur in
You are assuming interest rate will stay low forever..they won't in few years time.. 30 Year mortgage is a long time..2 year 1% won't help..:doh:
Renting - I can leave singapore if too expensive or goes belly down... Enjoy best of the whole world..keep moving to best locations... if bring too many FT crime and infrastructure will go bad anyway..:banghead:
considering your mindset, i figure u are not ready to invest in property ~
.................
I work on finance too...Play stock..and probably can do more calculations then u can..
..............
actually, I am interested if you can make money than CCR.
not particularly interested in esoteric calculations, statistical analysis and what not.
Have one foreigner, Mr Stalingrad also claimed he make more in 1 trade and what other guys earn in 10 years (if memory serves me right).
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb259/soliussymbiosus/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg
It won't sound funny in a year's time..
BTW Am not singaporean..I just work here and there.. Like to move around.. But been long time struck in SG now.. looking to set permanent base now..
We are where best stuff is..SG is where growth is right now.. few year, growth somewhere else.. go there.. Never tied down..
Neighbourhood go down, move on
I work on finance too...Play stock..and probably can do more calculations then u can..
When u buy property u make downPayment..20% ..u lose money earned on 20% Payment for 3-4 years till TOP.. Plus u start paying interest even before TOP for what? Lose money lose money..and then when house rise 2% u get happy..
After waiting for 4-5 years if get 2% return what big deal.. u pay more in interest and income lost..
Problem with SG people :banghead: is they think price only rise and rise 10% every year..not true... ask US guys.. its easy to go from undeveloped to developed country.. which SG is now.. where to go now? Only Downhill or stay static..:tongue3:
Companies not stupid..u see Guy in US ask for 90K..SG guy ask 140K cause can;t afford house.. company take US guy.. US guy still happy cause eveything cheap there...
Sg go down I go to US too.. take 90K.. u take urs overExpensive property and wait for renter and buyers :hell-hath-no-fury:
Ahhhh... I see... you are a parasite.
[1] Yah right, why so stupid all those new launch buyers? I never buy new launch. I buy resale and start collecting rental from Day 1 after taking over the property (best those that already come with tenants locked in at good rental).
[2] Net 2-3% is just rental income and already much better than deposit of 0.1% but capital gain is good. It is no difference from playing futures/options/forex, except that property gain is more certain over the long term. Is it any wonder why many rich people prefer properties to futures/options/forex/shares etc? Why they so rich?
[3] I think from your this statement, you still cannot calculate well. Play stock? Too slow lah! If you can calculate well, you should be playing futures+options+forex, earn money fast fast (lose also very fast)!
By the way, your uncle here play everything that can make money, don't care what are they - properties, shares, bonds, futures, options, forex, commodities, businesses, what else (as long you finance people can invent and I think I can make money I will invest/play. Lehman Mini-bonds or structured deposits? Get lost lah! Stupid to buy all those things with all those Terms & conditions! You think you finance people so smart we so stupid?) :p
[4] Well, because those US guys stupid loh! US so big, land so abundant, yet pay so much and take so much loan (95%)? :doh: Singapore at most 80% for 1st loan, 60% for 2nd loan. Sure no problem, + interest rate always much lower than US.
[5] You example is more like US get $140K and Singapore $90k? Even then, that US one only pocket $70k after tax while Singapore one still can pocket $81k after tax. That is a big difference after tax! So, US one earn more or Singapore earn more? I am sure US cost of living much higher than Singapore if you want luxury (e.g. can you employ a maid that work for $600 pm in US inclusive of govt levy to do house work and look out for your children at home?) :p
[6] No problem. Many people want to come to Singapore despite me charging them so high rental. The higher the rental, the more face and air they have! :D Got cheap rental condo and even rental HDB flats to rent and yet they also don't want! :rolleyes: But my rental property only for people who feel that rental is cheap cheap lah (not suitable for you).
Singapore welcome people who want to come. People want to leave are free to do so. It is just a free market. :cheers1:From the way you say is like you not happy paying high rental (not sure what is your high, is HDB flat rental also too high for you?), want to get out of Singapore for greener pasture but still cannot and temporarily got stuck here? :banghead:
It won't sound funny in a year's time..
BTW Am not singaporean..I just work here and there.. Like to move around.. But been long time struck in SG now.. looking to set permanent base now..
We are where best stuff is..SG is where growth is right now.. few year, growth somewhere else.. go there.. Never tied down..
Neighbourhood go down, move on
[3] I work on finance too...Play stock..and probably can do more calculations then u can..
When u buy property u make downPayment..20% .. [1] u lose money earned on 20% Payment for 3-4 years till TOP.. Plus u start paying interest even before TOP for what? Lose money lose money..and then when house rise 2% u get happy..
[2] After waiting for 4-5 years if get 2% return what big deal.. u pay more in interest and income lost..
[4] Problem with SG people :banghead: is they think price only rise and rise 10% every year..not true... ask US guys.. its easy to go from undeveloped to developed country.. which SG is now.. where to go now? Only Downhill or stay static..:tongue3:
[5] Companies not stupid..u see Guy in US ask for 90K..SG guy ask 140K cause can;t afford house.. company take US guy.. US guy still happy cause eveything cheap there...
[6] Sg go down I go to US too.. take 90K.. u take urs overExpensive property and wait for renter and buyers :hell-hath-no-fury:
His 1 trade enough to buy him a MarQ@Paterson unit? :beats-me-man:
Not sure whether he can even explain the margin required etc? :p
actually, I am interested if you can make money than CCR.
not particularly interested in esoteric calculations, statistical analysis and what not.
Have one foreigner, Mr Stalingrad also claimed he make more in 1 trade and what other guys earn in 10 years (if memory serves me right).
actually, I am interested if you can make money than CCR.
not particularly interested in esoteric calculations, statistical analysis and what not.
Have one foreigner, Mr Stalingrad also claimed he make more in 1 trade and what other guys earn in 10 years (if memory serves me right).
he is referring to me. Only missing factors is he doesnt know how much i make. but i m happy for him that he makes millions in 1 trade yet stay in a house that merely cost $1.5m-$2m. Opps it only cost him less than 1 m to buy. Meaning he is a damn humble man, is he?
[1] Yah right, why so stupid all those new launch buyers? I never buy new launch. I buy resale and start collecting rental from Day 1 after taking over the property (best those that already come with tenants locked in at good rental).
[2] Net 2-3% is just rental income and already much better than deposit of 0.1% but capital gain is good. It is no difference from playing futures/options/forex, except that property gain is more certain over the long term. Is it any wonder why many rich people prefer properties to futures/options/forex/shares etc? Why they so rich?
[3] I think from your this statement, you still cannot calculate well. Play stock? Too slow lah! If you can calculate well, you should be playing futures+options+forex, earn money fast fast (lose also very fast)!
By the way, your uncle here play everything that can make money, don't care what are they - properties, shares, bonds, futures, options, forex, commodities, businesses, what else (as long you finance people can invent and I think I can make money I will invest/play. Lehman Mini-bonds or structured deposits? Get lost lah! Stupid to buy all those things with all those Terms & conditions! You think you finance people so smart we so stupid?) :p
[4] Well, because those US guys stupid loh! US so big, land so abundant, yet pay so much and take so much loan (95%)? :doh: Singapore at most 80% for 1st loan, 60% for 2nd loan. Sure no problem, + interest rate always much lower than US.
[5] You example is more like US get $140K and Singapore $90k? Even then, that US one only pocket $70k after tax while Singapore one still can pocket $81k after tax. That is a big difference after tax! So, US one earn more or Singapore earn more? I am sure US cost of living much higher than Singapore if you want luxury (e.g. can you employ a maid that work for $600 pm in US inclusive of govt levy to do house work and look out for your children at home?) :p
[6] No problem. Many people want to come to Singapore despite me charging them so high rental. The higher the rental, the more face and air they have! :D Got cheap rental condo and even rental HDB flats to rent and yet they also don't want! :rolleyes: But my rental property only for people who feel that rental is cheap cheap lah (not suitable for you).
Singapore welcome people who want to come. People want to leave are free to do so. It is just a free market. :cheers1:From the way you say is like you not happy paying high rental (not sure what is your high, is HDB flat rental also too high for you?), want to get out of Singapore for greener pasture but still cannot and temporarily got stuck here? :banghead:
Yeah I can;t afford HDB rent either..cause am a bangla worked doing your constructions and cleaning plates after you....:o Can't pay your rent lah..:scared-2:
US has direct taxes.. but SG has indirect taxes..unless u r one who live in HDB and take Mrt..If u like to stay in a condo and want to buy luxury car u r heavily taxed..luxury item is SG is taxed indirectly..u pay 250K for a car ppl can have for 50K in other country..how come its not tax? Buy big house in US for 300K.
Problem with US/UK is not taxes, but the safety and crime rate..
My friends stay indoor after 8pm, cause so afraid of safety..
Property eurphoria can surely last..if all Singaporeans will earn atleast 100K by few years and prosper..
I can take a big house million dollar loan and stay here..but end of the day house is just place to stay in.. it don't have any economical value for me..
Problem is Singaporean are thinking house as investment vehicle to grow money... Enought said..can;t change :banghead:
Short term everyone is thinking of selling in 3-4 year before interest rate rises..Cause u can always find someone more stupid..
I wouldn't even want to buy for long term.. in 10-15 year time people won't be a buyer, but seller.. population getting old.. all those banking on downgrading to get cash needed for retirement.. will sell house which will be super inflated by then and retire easy..
Problem is ppl fed with the thoughts of using House as a bank for retirement.. But at end of the day house is just a place to stay.
Its a musical chair going on.. nothing but a tulip mania.
Peace out :cheers6:
All the indirect taxes won't hit you in Singapore if you don't spend on them as all the indirect taxes are just luxuries. If you don't buy car you have ZERO expenditure on it. If you don't have the money to buy $250k car who ask you to buy? Can buy 1 $50k only still can drive from Pt A to Pt B, cheaper than the taxes you pay in a year in US! How about you employ a maid at house to do all housework in US? How much will that cost you vs in Singapore? How about you eat out everyday in US vs doing that in Singapore? Big house cost $300k in US? Some ulu places? Why you want big house in US when you can't even afford to employ a maid in US? You enjoy being a slave to do housework everyday? or it is so that you can stay at home everyday because it is cheaper than eating and enjoying out there in US? :banghead: Don't need big house lah, you become Singapore Citizen you can also buy a newly built (HDB) apartment for $300k of about 100 sqm in Singapore, sufficient for a family of 4 to live in.
If there is tulip mania, the paper money you keep in the bank is just 1 big one, with US printing paper money, Europe printing paper money, Japan printing more paper money! Gosh! :doh:
I have more confident holding properties than the paper money! At least the aggregate total land in Singapore cannot be printed (and same in any other countries) while the paper money in US$, S$, Japan Yen, Euro are all being printed at alarming rate! Work harder! Good for you to hold on to their paper money that is so easy to print from their printers! Will be damn bad if nobody want to accept and keep their paper money anymore (just like the "banana money" in Singapore after World War 2)! :o
At least we also know that many emerging countries are reproducing more people and world population still growing (while the land still won't grow) and these people are moving all over the world, causing property prices to increase with their increasing needs! Smart people will continue to keep exchange that "banana paper money" for hard assets quickly for long-term keeping!
Enough said. Why my hand so itchy and teach people to become cleverer? Have to start practising self-restrain (tie up my hands)! :doh:
Yeah I can;t afford HDB rent either..cause am a bangla worked doing your constructions and cleaning plates after you....:o Can't pay your rent lah..:scared-2:
US has direct taxes.. but SG has indirect taxes..unless u r one who live in HDB and take Mrt..If u like to stay in a condo and want to buy luxury car u r heavily taxed..luxury item is SG is taxed indirectly..u pay 250K for a car ppl can have for 50K in other country..how come its not tax? Buy big house in US for 300K.
Problem with US/UK is not taxes, but the safety and crime rate..
My friends stay indoor after 8pm, cause so afraid of safety..
Property eurphoria can surely last..if all Singaporeans will earn atleast 100K by few years and prosper..
I can take a big house million dollar loan and stay here..but end of the day house is just place to stay in.. it don't have any economical value for me..
Problem is Singaporean are thinking house as investment vehicle to grow money... Enought said..can;t change :banghead:
Short term everyone is thinking of selling in 3-4 year before interest rate rises..Cause u can always find someone more stupid..
I wouldn't even want to buy for long term.. in 10-15 year time people won't be a buyer, but seller.. population getting old.. all those banking on downgrading to get cash needed for retirement.. will sell house which will be super inflated by then and retire easy..
Problem is ppl fed with the thoughts of using House as a bank for retirement.. But at end of the day house is just a place to stay.
Its a musical chair going on.. nothing but a tulip mania.
Peace out :cheers6:
Yeah I can;t afford HDB rent either..cause am a bangla worked doing your constructions and cleaning plates after you....:o Can't pay your rent lah..:scared-2:
US has direct taxes.. but SG has indirect taxes..unless u r one who live in HDB and take Mrt..If u like to stay in a condo and want to buy luxury car u r heavily taxed..luxury item is SG is taxed indirectly..u pay 250K for a car ppl can have for 50K in other country..how come its not tax? Buy big house in US for 300K.
Problem with US/UK is not taxes, but the safety and crime rate..
My friends stay indoor after 8pm, cause so afraid of safety..
Property eurphoria can surely last..if all Singaporeans will earn atleast 100K by few years and prosper..
I can take a big house million dollar loan and stay here..but end of the day house is just place to stay in.. it don't have any economical value for me..
Problem is Singaporean are thinking house as investment vehicle to grow money... Enought said..can;t change :banghead:
Short term everyone is thinking of selling in 3-4 year before interest rate rises..Cause u can always find someone more stupid..
I wouldn't even want to buy for long term.. in 10-15 year time people won't be a buyer, but seller.. population getting old.. all those banking on downgrading to get cash needed for retirement.. will sell house which will be super inflated by then and retire easy..
Problem is ppl fed with the thoughts of using House as a bank for retirement.. But at end of the day house is just a place to stay.
Its a musical chair going on.. nothing but a tulip mania.
Peace out :cheers6:
People around the world use property as investment vehicles. Do you know how many listed REIT/private property funds are there around the world? Do you know how many people in the states stay in rented apartments, which is an investment vehicle? Do you know how many people around the world own multiple properties and collect rent as their income? Of course property is an investment vehicle, not only in Singapore but in many other parts of the world, east and west
Apparently, you have never lived in the states, or even if you had, most likely in a "sorry" neighborhood. Otherwise you won't think "crime rate" is "the" problem that US has.
House is only a place for you to stay? I thought you say that you are after the "best stuff"? What are the "best stuff" in your definition? Bentley car, PP watch, and everything else but a nice place to stay in?
Hope you know, and really mean, what you have said.
rockinsg... 10% return a year may be highly unlikely but 2% price gain over 5 years is also highly unlikely, given everything else remains status quo! Given all things remain healthy, 10% price gain over 3 years is a decent expectation. If economy downturns, everything also will be affected, stocks, gold, etc... so nothing to sing about! :D
Don't teach lei. We need people to rent and finance our apartments. :D
Lets be open-minded shall we?
Most of us are property owners here. So of course we tends to be defensive when people attacked properties as an investment class.
let's hear what this guy has to say. Let us not be accused of group think.
So far In The context of Singapore from independence till now, clear cut, buying beats renting by a big margin... I rent out my fh property for 25 years and after that it's MINE..... Rockingsg obviously never stay in a global city like new York, London, hkg before.... Don't understand that talent, jobs, money flow to these financial capitals of the world sigh.....
R u all having alzhemier? Y u bit the hands that feeds u? This world got many ways of making $$$$ ma. This guy is good in other way thats good for him. he come here support Singapore we should be happy. He come rent our house, spend n help build our economy n contribute to our economy success. Whole world buy who rent? I hope those of u whom are rude realize u r hitting the hand that's feeds u! We need more global top talents to come here n rent our apartments n spend their top dollar so that this can be the biggest RARA show.
Teddy your 1 page essay is uncalled for u know.
R u all having alzhemier? Y u bit the hands that feeds u? This world got many ways of making $$$$ ma. This guy is good in other way thats good for him. he come here support Singapore we should be happy. He come rent our house, spend n help build our economy n contribute to our economy success. Whole world buy who rent? I hope those of u whom are rude realize u r hitting the hand that's feeds u! We need more global top talents to come here n rent our apartments n spend their top dollar so that this can be the biggest RARA show.
Teddy your 1 page essay is uncalled for u know.
Well, all kinds of comments can be found on this forum, bearish or bullish
and they are all welcomed, as long as they are personal opinions, or some actual facts
However, for those comments with obvious incorrect information embedded, I think it is better to be duly pointed out so other forumers won't be misled.
After all, rockinsg, you are welcome to stay here, please feel free to leave when you find somewhere better, congrats on the wealth you made from this island, and thank you for your contribution to this piece of land.
Oops... Sorry.... Don't buy rent.... It's bad to take such a big risk getting all money stuck in one illiquid asset... So better be liquid in these uncertain times... RockinSG I finally see your point of view... Thanks... :)
rattydrama
16-06-11, 19:35
Yah.. I guess your friend is talking about DBSS lah.. DBSS are blood sucking developments.. They are the same as BTOs but with some reno that maybe cost less than 20k.. But they cost higher than BTO by 200-300k..
But i guess this Tamp DBSS will break new grounds by costing 300-400k higher than the BTO that is launched beside it 2-3 weeks ago.. Somemore that BTO is bigger in size.. Such irony huh..
So BTO at 3xxk should be affortable... why so much complaints from singaporeans? DBSS or EC aka condo should be left to the private developers and free market. HDB should just focus of primary housing.
:doh: :doh:
linchong84
16-06-11, 19:59
So BTO at 3xxk should be affortable... why so much complaints from singaporeans? DBSS or EC aka condo should be left to the private developers and free market. HDB should just focus of primary housing.
:doh: :doh:
Why Singaporeans complain?? Look at that sunday times article loh.. Because they cant get the premium location HDB.. Then they say they keep on fail in BTO balloting.. They are so choosy of course fail lah.. Then they also say 10 years ago BTO only 1xxk so why isit 3xxk now, and they curse HDB for raising prices of BTOs.. They forgotten their standard of living also improved throughout the 10 years..
They also feel it is a pain to pay housing loan for 30 years because they feel by then they won't have enough left in cpf for retirement.. This is the funniest thing loh.. i thought only ahgong ahma those era of people will still want to depend on cpf for retirement.. middle or younger generation should be savvy enough to know what is call savings, investment, insurance, hospitalisation plan etc etc.. Those people are just whining for the sake of whining lah..
I can understand when people say hdb resale and dbss are expensive.. But i can never understand why people can say bto is exp..
I can't stand People lies & spreading of false info like US pay lower than Singapore, costs of living Lower than Singapore etc. Who is he to bluff? :doh:
Complain Singapore property rental too high? Then go Indonesia lor, can rent a house for $100 cheap Cheap! :p
R u all having alzhemier? Y u bit the hands that feeds u? This world got many ways of making $$$$ ma. This guy is good in other way thats good for him. he come here support Singapore we should be happy. He come rent our house, spend n help build our economy n contribute to our economy success. Whole world buy who rent? I hope those of u whom are rude realize u r hitting the hand that's feeds u! We need more global top talents to come here n rent our apartments n spend their top dollar so that this can be the biggest RARA show.
Teddy your 1 page essay is uncalled for u know.
I can't stand People lies & spreading of false info like US pay lower than Singapore, costs of living Lower than Singapore etc. Who is he to bluff? :doh:
Complain Singapore property rental too high? Then go Indonesia lor, can rent a house for $100 cheap Cheap! :p
Maybe his experience is so ma. He complain very expensive is okie one, because good things not cheap ma? Agree? Most important is complain finish Liao continue to live n work in this little red dot! I agree he shouldn't tie down his $$$$ in property n get best returns according to his skill set since he could move at any moment. make big $$$$ pay big rental no prob!!!!
The new dbss in tampines is really disgusting. How can it be > 700 psf when the resale are at most 400 PDF? Private developers should never have been allowed to sell public flats. More than a decade ago, there was the design and build scheme. They should have just stuck to them!!!
Why Singaporeans complain?? Look at that sunday times article loh.. Because they cant get the premium location HDB.. Then they say they keep on fail in BTO balloting.. They are so choosy of course fail lah.. Then they also say 10 years ago BTO only 1xxk so why isit 3xxk now, and they curse HDB for raising prices of BTOs.. They forgotten their standard of living also improved throughout the 10 years..
They also feel it is a pain to pay housing loan for 30 years because they feel by then they won't have enough left in cpf for retirement.. This is the funniest thing loh.. i thought only ahgong ahma those era of people will still want to depend on cpf for retirement.. middle or younger generation should be savvy enough to know what is call savings, investment, insurance, hospitalisation plan etc etc.. Those people are just whining for the sake of whining lah..
I can understand when people say hdb resale and dbss are expensive.. But i can never understand why people can say bto is exp..
They shall go to HK to work and stay...and then they will realise how fortunate they are in Sg.
Our GenY is getting to nowhere.....eventually they are not able to compete...sad to say
linchong84
16-06-11, 23:03
The new dbss in tampines is really disgusting. How can it be > 700 psf when the resale are at most 400 PDF? Private developers should never have been allowed to sell public flats. More than a decade ago, there was the design and build scheme. They should have just stuck to them!!!
Hmm.. i know why liao.. downtown line 3 gonna build a tampines mrt interchange station somewhere there..
mah bow tan is one hell of a guy.. he planned 4 mrt stations in tampines before he left!!!!!! no wonder tamp voters didn't kick him out... the entire long orchard road got 3 stations only, yet tampines got 4.......................
The new dbss in tampines is really disgusting. How can it be > 700 psf when the resale are at most 400 PDF? Private developers should never have been allowed to sell public flats. More than a decade ago, there was the design and build scheme. They should have just stuck to them!!!
and if existing hdb owners take the cue from the positive demand of sim lian's tampines dbss to set there own selling price, then they'll be no end to this price hike game. i still feel they shouldn't up the income ceiling. they need to price set DBSS and EC to reign the prices in.
and on the point of stocks and property. there's no one better asset class. if you have the dough, you should have BOTH asset classes. but the amount of crap listings with fraud et al has certainly tarnish the attractiveness of local equities as an asset class.
Hmm.. i know why liao.. downtown line 3 gonna build a tampines mrt interchange station somewhere there..
mah bow tan is one hell of a guy.. he planned 4 mrt stations in tampines before he left!!!!!! no wonder tamp voters didn't kick him out... the entire long orchard road got 3 stations only, yet tampines got 4.......................
ang mo kio only has 2. :cheers1:
devilplate
16-06-11, 23:20
Hmm.. i know why liao.. downtown line 3 gonna build a tampines mrt interchange station somewhere there..
mah bow tan is one hell of a guy.. he planned 4 mrt stations in tampines before he left!!!!!! no wonder tamp voters didn't kick him out... the entire long orchard road got 3 stations only, yet tampines got 4.......................
Only 3 rite? Tampines, tamp east n west
linchong84
16-06-11, 23:24
Only 3 rite? Tampines, tamp east n west
1st one: the current tamp E-W MRT station
2nd one: the tampines central 7 downtown line 3 MRT interchange (around 600-700m away from the 1st one above)
3rd one: tamp ave 7 next to TPJC
4th one: tamp ave 4 next to TP
There's also one that is on the borders betw tamp and bedok at the FEO waterfront projects area.. haha
Bedok got 4 as well.
Bloody shitty MBT.. Now you know what is call self-interest..
linchong84
16-06-11, 23:27
The tamp interchange downtown line 3 station will be linked with the E-W line tamp station.. Something like dobby gault, but dobby gault only got 1 exit at N-S line not N-E line there right? This tamp one should have exits at both sides according to sim lian map.. haha.. time to buy tamp properties..
i was watching the chinese news earlier and apparently this 880k is a guided price. the official price will be decided later??
linchong84
16-06-11, 23:30
i was watching the chinese news earlier and apparently this 880k is a guided price. the official price will be decided later??
this 880 is a guided price stated by sim lian in their website.. i guess official price not out yet until the balloting.. skali hit 900k:eek:
devilplate
16-06-11, 23:37
this 880 is a guided price stated by sim lian in their website.. i guess official price not out yet until the balloting.. skali hit 900k:eek:
Might as well buy waterview at 850psf?:rolleyes:
this 880 is a guided price stated by sim lian in their website.. i guess official price not out yet until the balloting.. skali hit 900k:eek:
under MBT maybe DBSS still can jalan...... Now KBW flex muscle and build. If he say he worry for pple who rush in n buy mass mkt condo.... then DBSS need to shiver liao. Ultimate expensive HDB IMHO. Who dare to commit unless it top grade location?
this 880 is a guided price stated by sim lian in their website.. i guess official price not out yet until the balloting.. skali hit 900k:eek:
good luck to those who asked for the income ceiling to be raised, the most happy party in this whole equation could very well be the developers.
devilplate
16-06-11, 23:49
good luck to those who asked for the income ceiling to be raised, the most happy party in this whole equation could very well be the developers.
Dbss/ec most likely income ceiling up tgt too...
Den developer cfm up prices for dbss n ec.....den ocr pte condos will up too....hahaha....so funny....
Income ceiling up better!:hell-hath-no-fury: :D
Dbss/ec most likely income ceiling up tgt too...
Den developer cfm up prices for dbss n ec.....den ocr pte condos will up too....hahaha....so funny....
Income ceiling up better!:hell-hath-no-fury: :D
HDB resale up cos HDB buyers can afford expensive DBSS, OCR condo price up, CCR condo prices up. In the end, still complain things are unaffordable. :cheers1:
linchong84
16-06-11, 23:58
Might as well buy waterview at 850psf?:rolleyes:
Actually all the more waterview cannot touch.. i did consider before and analysed before..
1. tamp got 2 good pri schools - st hilda and poi ching.. waterview is not within 1km to both..
2. although tamp will have 4 mrt stations, but none are walkable from waterview..
3. EC is launching beside waterview, after 5 year MOP how??
4. FEO's waterfront projects are very near and they face reservoirs while being near to mrt.. Waterview only face reservoir but not near mrt and further from town.. tough luck..
5. tamp ave 1 at the petrol station there a lot of accidents, bad bad..
devilplate
17-06-11, 00:01
Actually all the more waterview cannot touch.. i did consider before and analysed before..
1. tamp got 2 good pri schools - st hilda and poi ching.. waterview is not within 1km to both..
2. although tamp will have 4 mrt stations, but none are walkable from waterview..
3. EC is launching beside waterview, after 5 year MOP how??
4. FEO's waterfront projects are very near and they face reservoirs while being near to mrt.. Waterview only face reservoir but not near mrt and further from town.. tough luck..
5. tamp ave 1 at the petrol station there a lot of accidents, bad bad..
I mean better den dbss at 700-750psf rite?
Anyway 850psf quite ok lor....wf collections 9xxpsf mah
linchong84
17-06-11, 00:05
I mean better den dbss at 700-750psf rite?
Anyway 850psf quite ok lor....wf collections 9xxpsf mah
The DBSS is beside MRT station.. though the price still too ex lah..
waterview has ZERO primary school within 1km.. this is really a bad thing.. wf series is nearer to town and beside mrt so 9xxpsf is really ok.. waterview 800psf is still alright.. 850 too much liao..
when a town has 4 mrt stations, yet it still locates so ulu away until not walkable to all 4, you know it is bad.. with the low priced EC breathing at its back, waterview price hard to grow much..
prive is a better buy than this tampines dbss.
linchong84
17-06-11, 00:28
prive is a better buy than this tampines dbss.
I think sim lian dares to launch so high because of the number of things tampines has at its central area..
- 4 shopping centres (4th one will be the big hub)
- a future sporting hub
- 4 mrt stations
but punggol has
- 1 shopping centre
- no sporting hub
- 1 mrt station
see the comparison.. But having said that, D19 is still selling very well as of now..
I think sim lian dares to launch so high because of the number of things tampines has at its central area..
- 4 shopping centres (4th one will be the big hub)
- a future sporting hub
- 4 mrt stations
but punggol has
- 1 shopping centre
- no sporting hub
- 1 mrt station
see the comparison.. But having said that, D19 is still selling very well as of now..
well, you only need to be near one station to get to work, and punggol eventually will have its own main mall. that'll take time. and singapore is so small, the difference you save in capital outlay, you can take umpteen taxi rides on weekends to tampines mall. PLUS, you get swimming pool, security guard and other facilities, whilst with the DBSS, you get a elevated garden at most i believe?
and the other thing to consider, 5 years later, their tampines BTO neighbours will also be competing with the DBSS owners for buyers. they'll have a much bigger room to move the price down and transact whilst pocketing the handsome profit. it's the same as your assessment of Waterview.
linchong84
17-06-11, 00:40
well, you only need to be near one station to get to work, and punggol eventually will have its own main mall. that'll take time. and singapore is so small, the difference you save in capital outlay, you can take umpteen taxi rides on weekends to tampines mall. PLUS, you get swimming pool, security guard and other facilities, whilst with the DBSS, you get a elevated garden at most i believe?
and the other thing to consider, 5 years later, their tampines BTO neighbours will also be competing with the DBSS owners for buyers. they'll have a much bigger room to move the price down and transact whilst pocketing the handsome profit. it's the same as your assessment of Waterview.
haha bro don't be mistaken.. i never say this dbss is worth it or good.. i merely trying to guess why sim lian dare to launch so high.. maybe it's after they considered all those i stated.. i feel prive location not good enough.. if want to buy, just buy esparina, dun waste time with prive.. prive is 5xx metres away from mrt and surrounded by HDBs and not anywhere near the waterfront thing.. the future punggol town central is to the north of MRT but prive is further south.. i saw on the next quarters land sales there is another punggol ec that one maybe slightly better.. but anyway, all these also cannot touch, think and say so much no use..
haha bro don't be mistaken.. i never say this dbss is worth it or good.. i merely trying to guess why sim lian dare to launch so high.. maybe it's after they considered all those i stated.. i feel prive location not good enough.. if want to buy, just buy esparina, dun waste time with prive.. prive is 5xx metres away from mrt and surrounded by HDBs and not anywhere near the waterfront thing.. the future punggol town central is to the north of MRT but prive is further south.. i saw on the next quarters land sales there is another punggol ec that one maybe slightly better.. but anyway, all these also cannot touch, think and say so much no use..
yeah, these are advice for young couples buying their first matrimonial home to consider. not to get to fixated on one location and look further.
esparina i heard only has a few 2 bedders left, if they didn't mind those 2 bedders, they could consider that project, but if they want 3 bedders, esparina is out.
hdb owners and private developers will be watching the sales of this dbss closely, it could break a few preconceptions and raise the stakes of the game.
At this kind of pricing, might as well buy nv. Anyway, the list goes on. I think it is really a mistake to have dbss. Public housing can see record of 300 psf difference between resale and new? Are people so desperate to have new flats that they cannot scape 20k to pay the cov?
haha bro don't be mistaken.. i never say this dbss is worth it or good.. i merely trying to guess why sim lian dare to launch so high.. maybe it's after they considered all those i stated.. i feel prive location not good enough.. if want to buy, just buy esparina, dun waste time with prive.. prive is 5xx metres away from mrt and surrounded by HDBs and not anywhere near the waterfront thing.. the future punggol town central is to the north of MRT but prive is further south.. i saw on the next quarters land sales there is another punggol ec that one maybe slightly better.. but anyway, all these also cannot touch, think and say so much no use..Give Punggol some time to improve its infrastructure. Seng Kang was really ulu 10 years back but it is so much better today. Punggol is like Seng Kang 10 years back. Now there's even construction for a stadium or swimming pool (I think) in Punggol. The place is getting better and more accessible! :cool: When Prive TOP, its better then liao... :D
kingkong1984
17-06-11, 08:45
D B S S
Don't Be Stupid and Silly.
linchong84
17-06-11, 08:54
Give Punggol some time to improve its infrastructure. Seng Kang was really ulu 10 years back but it is so much better today. Punggol is like Seng Kang 10 years back. Now there's even construction for a stadium or swimming pool (I think) in Punggol. The place is getting better and more accessible! :cool: When Prive TOP, its better then liao... :D
No matter what the future plans are, Punggol and Sengkang are full of residential developments, HDBs all over the shop with 1 shopping centre to support entire town.. So the thing that is important for a self-stayer (i assume EC buyers are self-stayers) is accessibility.. So, it's either you stay beside an MRT station (if you don't drive), or you stay beside the KPE (if you drive).. Prive is like jack of all trades, master of none.. 540m away from MRT (neither near nor far), quite a long drive full of traffic lights away from KPE.. So, i thought no point lah.. If you are a self-stayer don't intend for investment, buy esparina if don't drive. Buy austville if you drive.. That's purely on a self-stayer point of view..
GOOD MORNING SINGAPORE!!!
good morning. why so cheerful?
Must be huat ah??? Maybe someone offer 20% more for his condo
No matter what the future plans are, Punggol and Sengkang are full of residential developments, HDBs all over the shop with 1 shopping centre to support entire town.. So the thing that is important for a self-stayer (i assume EC buyers are self-stayers) is accessibility.. So, it's either you stay beside an MRT station (if you don't drive), or you stay beside the KPE (if you drive).. Prive is like jack of all trades, master of none.. 540m away from MRT (neither near nor far), quite a long drive full of traffic lights away from KPE.. So, i thought no point lah.. If you are a self-stayer don't intend for investment, buy esparina if don't drive. Buy austville if you drive.. That's purely on a self-stayer point of view..
Well, if I could to choose again, I would go for a BTO. But if those couples die die want condo facilities and can't afford one in the Tampines cos they'll all be over 1mio, they'll have to consider other options. Spending 800k for a condo like flat without facilities borders on stupidity.
Its a friday!!! Some more got some IDIOT going to sell DBSS 800+++KKKK. lets pray for oversubsribe???!!!!
Developers are really damn greedy!!
No matter what the future plans are, Punggol and Sengkang are full of residential developments, HDBs all over the shop with 1 shopping centre to support entire town.. So the thing that is important for a self-stayer (i assume EC buyers are self-stayers) is accessibility.. So, it's either you stay beside an MRT station (if you don't drive), or you stay beside the KPE (if you drive).. Prive is like jack of all trades, master of none.. 540m away from MRT (neither near nor far), quite a long drive full of traffic lights away from KPE.. So, i thought no point lah.. If you are a self-stayer don't intend for investment, buy esparina if don't drive. Buy austville if you drive.. That's purely on a self-stayer point of view..Good anaylsis and I agree totally with you but the ECs around Austville and Esparina will be too congested for my liking in the near future... so so many projects taking place there! Prices of each development will be interdependent on one another and I hate that. Very difficult to appreciate de! :scared-4:
Its a friday!!! Some more got some IDIOT going to sell DBSS 800+++KKKK. lets pray for oversubsribe???!!!!
Developers are really damn greedy!!
And it's guided price!
And it's guided price!Guided by who??? Think guide is only a guide... let's see! :p
Its a friday!!! Some more got some IDIOT going to sell DBSS 800+++KKKK. lets pray for oversubsribe???!!!!
Developers are really damn greedy!!
Buyers who pay high price for this DBSS as they anticipate even higher levels of psf after TOP are also greedy. This DBSS is not meant for non-greedy buyers.
Buyers who pay high price for this DBSS as they anticipate even higher levels of psf after TOP are also greedy. This DBSS is not meant for non-greedy buyers.How greedy can buyers be if they have to wait 5 years? Too much at stake! If after 5 years, market downturn so have to wait another 2 years for market to start picking up and if price still climbing slowly, wait another 2 years before its good enough price, then all in all wait 9 years? :scared-1:
Furthermore DBSS is less attractive to low income earners coz can't afford and less attractive to high income earners coz no facilities as condo appeals more than they can only wait and wait for that one middle income earner who is willing to pay that huge price for just a HDB. DBSS is the most expensive HDB there is, isn't it? :p
Its a friday!!! Some more got some IDIOT going to sell DBSS 800+++KKKK. lets pray for oversubsribe???!!!!
Developers are really damn greedy!!
Best present for the new Minister MND
Best present for the new Minister MNDIts rude to reject present, right? So let's see how he's gonna accept this present? Maybe he'll invited the developer to lim kopi and discuss how to re-package this present because he don't like the packaging?
Its rude to reject present, right? So let's see how he's gonna accept this present? Maybe he'll invited the developer to lim kopi and discuss how to re-package this present because he don't like the packaging?
i think he DL later launch 1 BTO beside for 1/2 price to let SL repent!
linchong84
18-06-11, 08:11
i think he DL later launch 1 BTO beside for 1/2 price to let SL repent!
He already launched a BTO beside that sold at exactly 1/2 price (most exp unit was 440,000) 2-3 weeks ago.. The takeup was quite good, 6-7 times oversubscribed.. SL trying to set new pricing guide for DBSS to price 2 times of BTO.. 6 months later, they will launch their EC beside and price it at 3 times of BTO (most exp unit 1.32mil).. Eventually, this will be the new market pricing norm..
He already launched a BTO beside that sold at exactly 1/2 price (most exp unit was 440,000) 2-3 weeks ago.. The takeup was quite good, 6-7 times oversubscribed.. SL trying to set new pricing guide for DBSS to price 2 times of BTO.. 6 months later, they will launch their EC beside and price it at 3 times of BTO (most exp unit 1.32mil).. Eventually, this will be the new market pricing norm..Before they can price the EC 3X BTO prices, they must first see the take up rate for their DBSS! Already so many unhappiness and surprise at such a price. We'll see! :p
i think he DL later launch 1 BTO beside for 1/2 price to let SL repent!Instead of SL repent for launching the DBSS at such a high price, its HDB who'll repent to launch BTO at such a low price! :D Nearby residents looking to sell their current HDB flats all smiling to the banks now! :cheers1:
Geylang OKT
18-06-11, 08:26
Lemmings are just plain silly and they deserve to get burnt to a crisp! :D :D :D
KBW hasn't made any statements concerning this DBSS sales... what can he say and what will he say? Hmmm... maybe say nothing after all! :p
KBW has lamented that people are chasing high price private properties especially the new launch when there are so many units available and to become available 4-5 years down the road (he forgot to mention that this is true only for OCR where they are selling so many land!).
To show that he is fair and square to all, he should just condemn this DBSS because how can a HDB flat with 5 years MOP be sold at almost same price as the ECs and close to private condos and he deemed private condo price already high enough and people need to consider very carefully before buying? :banghead: :p
KBW hasn't made any statements concerning this DBSS sales... what can he say and what will he say? Hmmm... maybe say nothing after all! :p
linchong84
18-06-11, 12:05
Maybe the DBSS are planned to be privatised in future.. Something like HUDC last time.. So now need to sell at a higher price..
KBW has lamented that people are chasing high price private properties especially the new launch when there are so many units available and to become available 4-5 years down the road (he forgot to mention that this is true only for OCR where they are selling so many land!).
To show that he is fair and square to all, he should just condemn this DBSS because how can a HDB flat with 5 years MOP be sold at almost same price as the ECs and close to private condos and he deemed private condo price already high enough and people need to consider very carefully before buying? :banghead: :p
cant understand y DBSS price 2 times of BTO in tampiness? HDB got to do something this round. Its reputation is going down the drain cos of SL.
devilplate
18-06-11, 12:34
cant understand y DBSS price 2 times of BTO in tampiness? HDB got to do something this round. Its reputation is going down the drain cos of SL.
Actually more like simlian reputation gg down....i always tot simlian gd developer...waterview for eg. Prices still not too bad n layout very efficient.
Buy belsya best at similar psf....hahaha
Actually more like simlian reputation gg down....i always tot simlian gd developer...waterview for eg. Prices still not too bad n layout very efficient.
Buy belsya best at similar psf....hahaha
The young couples already very DL the current pricing! This is HDB housing leh..... private housing nothing to say. SL must be trying to be FEO of HDB.
Regulators
18-06-11, 12:45
Kbw's aim is to make hdb a popular icon again and I interpret that as making hdb as upmarket as private. I believe he intends to have hdb cater to different groups of people of different income groups and making hdb cheap across the board is never his intention.
Kbw's aim is to make hdb a popular icon again and I interpret that as making hdb as upmarket as private. I believe he intends to have hdb cater to different groups of people of different income groups and making hdb cheap across the board is never his intention.
it could be as u interpret. For up market, we have the ECs. For the masses we have the BTOs. We can quote examples in motoring. We have the lexus for the premium offering and we have the toyota for mass market pricing strategy. Its seems confusing if a toyota caramy is price equal or higher than a lexus?
i agree with catering to different income group a good product offering strategy. $720k DBSS in clementi is barely acceptable to me, 880k in tampiness is out of the world for me. the about are just my 2cents worth
Fundamentally, the DBSS scheme is inappropriate as to how can u have the private developers to determine the price to sell.
When Boon Keng DBSS first launched, the price was out of this world too. But slowly it was accepted and now it is viewed as a bargain. On the contrary, my view now is the lifting of salary ceiling will increase DBSS and EC prices, hence providing a supporting base for higher mass market condo prices.
Sandwich class can buy lower tier BTO.
Higher sandwich class can buy "Design Built To Tai" and "Earning Cows"
It works both ways. I also disagree that increase ceiling private HDBs demands to go down when 10k - 12k people also allowed to buy private HDBs.
This is point 1
In fact, if this is realized I would feel the 4-tier housing (bto (resale), dbss, ec, pc) becomes more distinct. A oversupply + crisis shock/interest shock occur, it is harder for top tier pricing to fall to the lowest tier pricing. So if you buy bto for 400 psf. A current 1000 psf mass market PC maybe fall to max 700 psf pricing. Still need to top up 300 psf. And may need to buy at a time of super high interest.
This is Point 2
Launch smaller, Look at esparina on last page of "TODAY", so affordable, they calculated for you. Longer you wait the smaller it gets if same developers survive the next crisis.
More picky you get, it gets more expensive.
Longer you wait, it gets smaller.
Singapore housing market becoming blurred between each tier. Last time EC introduced to match PCs but slightly cheaper. Now, DBSS's price = EC's price! So no point having so many tiers coz all same price lah. Esparina also beside MRT is now a steal man! :p
devilplate
18-06-11, 15:29
If income celing is raised, den really nid to scrap dbss liao....
Bto 10k, ec 12k:D :2cents:
Mabe restrict those between 8-10k to buy 5rm flat only?:2cents:
If income celing is raised, den really nid to scrap dbss liao....
Bto 10k, ec 12k:D :2cents:
Mabe restrict those between 8-10k to buy 5rm flat only?:2cents:Think the problem is DBSS has the same income ceiling cap as EC. If only its over three tiers. BTO at $10k, DBSS at $12k and EC at $14k... :rolleyes:
linchong84
18-06-11, 17:51
Think the problem is DBSS has the same income ceiling cap as EC. If only its over three tiers. BTO at $10k, DBSS at $12k and EC at $14k... :rolleyes:
If EC 14k, then a lot of HDB upgraders will flock to ECs instead of mass market pte condo.. The extra money they saved can just throw into a super strong singapore bluechip company and generate 4-5% annual dividend, no diff from rental yield.. After this Tamp DBSS episode, MND should just drop any plans to increase EC and DBSS income ceiling.. Unless they have self interest to collect more land sale $$, otherwise i can't see any benefits for the developers or buyers.. Developers will still earn the same amount of profit but buyers will need to pay more as developers will bid higher for the land and sell at a higher price.. So, end up buyers are actually indirectly paying more money to the govt for the land sales..
If EC 14k, then a lot of HDB upgraders will flock to ECs instead of mass market pte condo.. The extra money they saved can just throw into a super strong singapore bluechip company and generate 4-5% annual dividend, no diff from rental yield.. After this Tamp DBSS episode, MND should just drop any plans to increase EC and DBSS income ceiling.. Unless they have self interest to collect more land sale $$, otherwise i can't see any benefits for the developers or buyers.. Developers will still earn the same amount of profit but buyers will need to pay more as developers will bid higher for the land and sell at a higher price.. So, end up buyers are actually indirectly paying more money to the govt for the land sales..As I've always advocated, the key to solving the housing market heat and bubble is through the developers. Mr K must stop looking at investors only and start looking at those developers. Since supply is so much, most of the buyers will be getting new launches and prices can be controlled through the developers. Unlike resale where prices are controlled more by sellers and willing buyers! :(
linchong84
18-06-11, 18:23
KBW's latest blog entry.. He angry liao and going to combine his jun and jul BTO launch to form a big army to whack SL hahaha.. Somemore he say will launch at a wise price haha.. SL jialat liao, made minister angry..:spliff:
"A private developer’s DBSS launch in Tampines, with the upper end of the 5 room units priced at $880,000, caused a stir in the social media. The negative reaction was not surprising.
DBSS is a class of housing type between HDB flats and Executive Condos (EC)/private condos. It forms a tiny portion of the total housing options for Singaporeans.
While HDB flats are designed and priced by HDB, DBSS flats are designed and priced by private developers. If the private developer prices it too high and there are no takers, there will be no sales.
Netizens would like MND to come in and tell the private developer to cut its price. When they tendered for the land, price control was not a term of the tender. If contracts, after they are awarded, can be varied arbitrarily, this will damage Singapore’s reputation as a business hub, with severe repercussions.
But netizens are not powerless. If buyers find a price too high, they can walk away.
Neither am I. On my part, I am ramping up more BTO launches and pricing them appropriately. I am currently preparing the next BTO launch.
I am launching 25,000 units this year. 12,000 units have already been launched. Another 13,000 units will be launched this year, averaging 1,800 units per month.
I have been advised to do larger launches. Large launches offer buyers a wider range of choices, and reduce the odds of repeated disappointment. I think this is sound advice.
I am therefore working with HDB to see how the June and July launches can be combined for a larger launch. And I will price them wisely. Certainly, they will not be near what the recent DBSS launch suggests."
Good to know that Mr K is well informed and he will use the soft approach by mass new launches of BTO to keep things at bay! :D No need to invite SL to lim kopi! :p
if people take up clear the 3 and 4 room good.. enough..dun forget thes 5 rm only limited units.l next year can launch their EC at record.. nothing minister can do about it unless more CM.
Haa haa SL in big trouble...0% sales after balloting date haa haa... :rolleyes: Everybody go showroom kaypo see who is the carrot head only haa haa.
Haa haa SL in big trouble...0% sales after balloting date haa haa... :rolleyes: Everybody go showroom kaypo see who is the carrot head only haa haa.Is your information accurate? It'll be so so funny and interesting to see SL's response! :spliff:
confirm he is pissed!! there he is working hard to push out record units of HDB and even on wkends blogging, SL had to give him a good one by launching record price!!! pardon my lousy knowledge, i misunderstood DBSS is HDB baby, but build by private developer for HDB customers. Apparently not......
Pple familar with tampiness are there more empty plots near to the site?
confirm he is pissed!! there he is working hard to push out record units of HDB and even on wkends blogging, SL had to give him a good one by launching record price!!! pardon my lousy knowledge, i misunderstood DBSS is HDB baby, but build by private developer for HDB customers. Apparently not......
Pple familar with tampiness are there more empty plots near to the site?There are plenty of empty green pastures far far away from MRT. Mr K may need a second heart bypass after reading the record price by DBSS! :scared-4:
Is DBSS really different from HDB? Does DBSS has 5-year MOP? If have then what is it so different from HDB BTO? :p
KBW's latest blog entry.. He angry liao and going to combine his jun and jul BTO launch to form a big army to whack SL hahaha.. Somemore he say will launch at a wise price haha.. SL jialat liao, made minister angry..:spliff:
"A private developer’s DBSS launch in Tampines, with the upper end of the 5 room units priced at $880,000, caused a stir in the social media. The negative reaction was not surprising.
DBSS is a class of housing type between HDB flats and Executive Condos (EC)/private condos. It forms a tiny portion of the total housing options for Singaporeans.
While HDB flats are designed and priced by HDB, DBSS flats are designed and priced by private developers. If the private developer prices it too high and there are no takers, there will be no sales.
Netizens would like MND to come in and tell the private developer to cut its price. When they tendered for the land, price control was not a term of the tender. If contracts, after they are awarded, can be varied arbitrarily, this will damage Singapore’s reputation as a business hub, with severe repercussions.
But netizens are not powerless. If buyers find a price too high, they can walk away.
Neither am I. On my part, I am ramping up more BTO launches and pricing them appropriately. I am currently preparing the next BTO launch.
I am launching 25,000 units this year. 12,000 units have already been launched. Another 13,000 units will be launched this year, averaging 1,800 units per month.
I have been advised to do larger launches. Large launches offer buyers a wider range of choices, and reduce the odds of repeated disappointment. I think this is sound advice.
I am therefore working with HDB to see how the June and July launches can be combined for a larger launch. And I will price them wisely. Certainly, they will not be near what the recent DBSS launch suggests."
Is DBSS really different from HDB? Does DBSS has 5-year MOP? If have then what is it so different from HDB BTO? :p
Hav mop, Mr K just wan to stress the price is not set by hdb.
rattydrama
18-06-11, 20:14
Hav mop, Mr K just wan to stress the price is not set by hdb.
DBSS with MOP of 5 year and can ONLY SELL BACK to HDB upgrader:doh: If buying at 700k or 800k, any upside in future if you going to sell? Those buying at this price is really nuts cos how much you can gain? + the 2.5% interest paid over 5 years....
before buying, must think of selling as well.
KBW damn on, every 3 days blogs n give updates!! Check out face book links,
http://www.facebook.com/MNDsingapore/posts/194548120596375
pple are disagreeing with him. DBSS is HDB, cos govt by all its rules n regulations. Only not prices by HDB. Very soon pple going to question by then have DBSS? Is this asset class going to be phrased out?
DBSS with MOP of 5 year and can ONLY SELL BACK to HDB upgrader:doh: If buying at 700k or 800k, any upside in future if you going to sell? Those buying at this price is really nuts cos how much you can gain? + the 2.5% interest paid over 5 years....
before buying, must think of selling as well.
serious!!! got this kind of restriction? meaning can only sell to Singaporeans/PR whom have bought a HDB b4? y got so funny restriction ?
rattydrama
18-06-11, 20:37
serious!!! got this kind of restriction? meaning can only sell to Singaporeans/PR whom have bought a HDB b4? y got so funny restriction ?
Its HDB flat still right? You can buy only if you dont hold any private property. Not funny I think. Unless u telling me DBSS is not HDB flat so dont need to follow HDB rules. Re-sale HDB no foreigners are allowed to buy.
Its HDB flat still right? You can buy only if you dont hold any private property. Not funny I think. Unless u telling me DBSS is not HDB flat so dont need to follow HDB rules. Its treated as re-sale HDB where no foreigners is allowed to buy.
KBW got me when he say DBSS is not HDB. Its still very HDB ma..... but he try to distance DBSS 880k buy saying build and price by private developer. Y we care which developer build, hdb have been building millions of flats , cannot be SL can build better or cheaper ma. Just do up some nicer interior then come price @ EC range which is 2x BTO price in this case ??
What matters most to consumers are the design, furnishing and last but not least, pricing of a unit. If HDB is unable to control any of these 3 aspects, would it be considered a HDB project?
rattydrama
18-06-11, 21:10
KBW got me when he say DBSS is not HDB. Its still very HDB ma..... but he try to distance DBSS 880k buy saying build and price by private developer. Y we care which developer build, hdb have been building millions of flats , cannot be SL can build better or cheaper ma. Just do up some nicer interior then come price @ EC range which is 2x BTO price in this case ??
HDB cannot control the pricing of DBSS but set restrictions for sales of HBSS is itself flawed. Land cost is 2xxpsf and selling at construction costs 250psf... how much is SL selling? Actually the basic building cost of HDB is around 90k per unit. :D
DBSS also got no swimming pool. Better to buy EC where u can sell to local buyers/PRs holding any kind of positions or 10 years later to foreigners.
What matters most to consumers are the design, furnishing and last but not least, pricing of a unit. If HDB is unable to control any of these 3 aspects, would it be considered a HDB project?The number one concern of buyers are essentially the price. Interior design is no big deal. Who says I cannot do up the house the way I like with even better quality interior design? Who says the ID by DBSS will definitely suit my taste? DBSS is always HDB as long as the HDB rules applies. Its an expensive HDB, that's all. Just like a $10 chicken rice at Orchard or a $3 chicken rice at nearby coffeeshop! :scared-4: Both also chicken rice! :p
rattydrama
18-06-11, 21:37
The number one concern of buyers are essentially the price. Interior design is no big deal. Who says I cannot do up the house the way I like with even better quality interior design? Who says the ID by DBSS will definitely suit my taste? DBSS is always HDB as long as the HDB rules applies. Its an expensive HDB, that's all. Just like a $10 chicken rice at Orchard or a $3 chicken rice at nearby coffeeshop! :scared-4: Both also chicken rice! :p
sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.
sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.What do you mean by fair value?
linchong84
18-06-11, 22:16
sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.
SL says price is reasonable.. This is really something quite puzzling.. 5 years ago when they launched Tamp DBSS 1 (Premiere) situated beside this current one, it was half the price.. 2-3 weeks ago, the BTO that was situated beside was also launched by HDB at half the price.. So, what actually warrant the 440k difference in price for the priciest unit in both the DBSS and BTO??
Property values depend on location, class of housing, size, views and finishing.. For location, both are similar since they are next to each other, although the DBSS will be slightly near to the hub and MRT. For class of housing, both are HDB with 5 year MOP. For size, the DBSS is not only smaller (DBSS is 108sqm, BTO is 110sqm), it also has big aircon ledge and 2 balconies. For views, both same surrounded by HDB.. For finishing, it has the partial furnishing such as tiles for living room, parquet for bedrooms, furnished bathrooms, airconditioned bedrooms (living room don't have), wardrobes, kitchen cabinets.. Are these furnishing worth 440k??
The prices are reasonable to them, not the rest of the world... :) According to their explanation, then Kovan Residence must now be sold at $1600 psf coz its so so so near everything one needs to survive! Hahahaha! :D
Actually i dun understand the hoohah.
Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?
If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.
I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs :cool:
linchong84
18-06-11, 22:41
Actually i dun understand the hoohah.
Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?
If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.
I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs :cool:
Will definitely sell out within 1 year.. 800k is still very affordable afterall.. People were upset because they thought they could get it cheaper..
devilplate
18-06-11, 22:41
Actually i dun understand the hoohah.
Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?
If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.
I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs :cool:
I felt comforted after reading kbw blog...i tink he can do the job:D
Let me help Sim Lian to answer some questions:
1) DBSS is premium quality HDB
2) DBSS has better sound proofing (ordinary BTO like no sound proofing or very bad)
3) DBSS has better materials in walls, floor structures, etc, so cost of building is about $250 psf vs HDB $80 psf. If your are not construction experts & didn't do testing, you usually can't tell the difference just by looking at them from outside. :p
SL says price is reasonable.. This is really something quite puzzling.. 5 years ago when they launched Tamp DBSS 1 (Premiere) situated beside this current one, it was half the price.. 2-3 weeks ago, the BTO that was situated beside was also launched by HDB at half the price.. So, what actually warrant the 440k difference in price for the priciest unit in both the DBSS and BTO??
Property values depend on location, class of housing, size, views and finishing.. For location, both are similar since they are next to each other, although the DBSS will be slightly near to the hub and MRT. For class of housing, both are HDB with 5 year MOP. For size, the DBSS is not only smaller (DBSS is 108sqm, BTO is 110sqm), it also has big aircon ledge and 2 balconies. For views, both same surrounded by HDB.. For finishing, it has the partial furnishing such as tiles for living room, parquet for bedrooms, furnished bathrooms, airconditioned bedrooms (living room don't have), wardrobes, kitchen cabinets.. Are these furnishing worth 440k??
rattydrama
18-06-11, 23:32
Actually i dun understand the hoohah.
Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?
If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.
I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs :cool:
Buyer beware. Buy and dont regret and dont blame government. For those who dont read and dont bother about such restriction, if get stuck pls dont blame government but themselves lor...
Let me help Sim Lian to answer some questions:
1) DBSS is premium quality HDB
2) DBSS has better sound proofing (ordinary BTO like no sound proofing or very bad)
3) DBSS has better materials in walls, floor structures, etc, so cost of building is about $250 psf vs HDB $80 psf. If your are not construction experts & didn't do testing, you usually can't tell the difference just by looking at them from outside. :p
Sim Lian should hire you as their public relations chief. :cheers1:
actually, i think an effective way is for HDB to not let developers affect their reputation is by setting the selling price at a BTO+ level and let developers bid whatever price they think they can make some margin with a minimum reserve price. Afterall, the developers rely on them for landbank. And if the bid comes in too low, HDB can easily be the one directing the project and issuing the contract to contractors for them to build premium design flats.
having said all that, i hope i wouldn't have to celebrate their marketing success because of some irrational buyers who have decided to fork $800+k for a 5 room flat. it just doesn't feel right.
Buyer beware. Buy and dont regret and dont blame government. For those who dont read and dont bother about such restriction, if get stuck pls dont blame government but themselves lor...
yes CAVEAT EMPTOR indeed! Don't ask for a bailout if things go pear shaped.
rattydrama
18-06-11, 23:48
What do you mean by fair value?
not fair value as this is DBSS with restrictions. With this price, we can opt for EC by paying abit more.
If the price is expensive without restriction, then maybe it is fairer... as it is being compensated by good location. no facility also nvr mind for some as no nid pay maintenance fee.
but if singaporeans still buy, what can we say?
Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical
178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k
Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms
3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss
*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.
rattydrama
18-06-11, 23:53
Sim Lian should hire you as their public relations chief. :cheers1:
actually, i think an effective way is for HDB to not let developers affect their reputation is by setting the selling price at a BTO+ level and let developers bid whatever price they think they can make some margin with a minimum reserve price. Afterall, the developers rely on them for landbank. And if the bid comes in too low, HDB can easily be the one directing the project and issuing the contract to contractors for them to build premium design flats.
having said all that, i hope i wouldn't have to celebrate their marketing success because of some irrational buyers who have decided to fork $800+k for a 5 room flat. it just doesn't feel right.
to add, must set min living standards and reasonable quality. otherwise only dogy can stay cos all corners being cut. :D
Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical
178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k
Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms
3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss
*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.
4 rm flat 600+k is still ok? either i'm too conservative or there are more carrot heads out there to be fleeced.
rattydrama
19-06-11, 00:18
search under tampines ave 5
4-room
blk 939 06 to 10 104.00 m2
Model A 1988 $435,000.00 Jun 2011
blk 860B 01 to 05 104.00 m2
Model A 1987 $387,000.00 Mar 2011
5-room
861A 01 to 05 122.00
Improved 1988 $420,200.00 May 2011
859 11 to 15 122.00
Improved 1988 $475,000.00 Apr 2011
Sim Lian launches Centrale 8 at Tampines three-room flats range in size from 61 sq m, four-room flats from 83 sq m and five-room flats from 108 sq m Three-room flats $397,000 and S$510,000, four-room units between S$531,000 and S$683,000 and five-room flats between S$685,000 and S$880,000.
Look at the recent transacted price which is about 150k to 200k dif and smaller @ roughly same location for 4 room and 400k dif for 5 room.
SL is smart but I think too greedy, should remember its still public housing want to play, play private less complaint. :p
PSF Estimation
Adora Green Yishun
3 Room : 721sqft, 330k-400k, 457psf ~ 554 psf
4 Room : 990sqft), 440k-550k, 444psf ~ 555 psf
5 Room : 1,206sqft), 540k-650k, 447psf ~ 538 psf
Again Centrale Tampines
3 Room : 657 sqft, 397k-510k, 604psf~776 psf
4 Room: 904 sqft, 531k - 683k, 587psf ~ 775 psf
5 Room: 1163 sqft, 685k - 880k, 588psf ~756 psf
Possible to get 4 room at a decent psf level since got 2 MRT, 3 shopping centre premium. Cannot say the same for quantum
devilplate
19-06-11, 00:23
Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical
178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k
Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms
3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss
*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.
How come price gap so huge for let say 4rm flat?they got various 4rm sizes? Tampines only can build up to 10flrs rite? 2nd to 10th flr at most 50-70k diff?:beats-me-man:
If we take the lower end of the px range...seems alrite leh....
What I don't understand is why need to let private developer bid and build dbss? Why cant hsb build on their own and price it bto +?
Thats why tomorrow shall go their showroom and be awed. I am interested to know why too. why the range so big.
5 room no need argue. TAI-ed to max. 178 units maybe facing future lifestyle hub (4th shopping centre), who knows
rattydrama
19-06-11, 00:38
Thats why tomorrow shall go their showroom and be awed. I am interested to know why too. why the range so big.
5 room no need argue. TAI-ed to max. 178 units maybe facing future lifestyle hub (4th shopping centre), who knows
not trying to disagree with you. I am thinking, one is just nice, 4 is just too many and too messy.....gonna to be crowded?
What I don't understand is why need to let private developer bid and build dbss? Why cant hsb build on their own and price it bto +?
the price tiering was pretty consistent between BTO and ECs until the latest dbss.
People were upset because they thought they could get it cheaper..
Then these people are simply greedy. They thought they had the Duxton moment. Can buy cheap cheap and sell high high.
Cry Cry cry.. always cry...
This is the price and buy buy..else more expensive in few years..
If cannot afford leave singapore.. and enjoy life in low cost neighbour..
tsk tsk.. even malaysia won't allow u guys cause u have no skills...
they only cry...
else can go to better country always..tsk tsk
Buy buy..price can only go one way up up and up..
Then these people are simply greedy. They thought they had the Duxton moment. Can buy cheap cheap and sell high high.
i think if they tried to sell their DBSS at $700+k at the highest end, perhaps people can still reason out why they're forking out the premium. And it fits into the segment just under the EC prices. Afterall, Natura Loft at Bishan was selling their top few floors at just over $700k. But at $800+k, it is already beyond the realm of reason.
The promise has always been more availability, not cheaper than previous transactions. the buyers should also adjust their expectations accordingly and not dream of striking it rich in one single property purchase, especially when they're not buying at times of distress.
I conclude it's the location lah!!!! If this one launch special hdb project in orchard road say at the back of cairhill with duxton style special design it will be a sold out , 0 unhappiness !!! Only complain is from pple whom can't get it. 880k will be cheap!!!! Die die must get. Beg n borrow to get DP!
This one launch 880k beside a BTO block sell 440k , pple sure shock!!!! New condo to old condo 30% difference already pple CFCM Liao. New HDB to NEW "packaged" hdb 100% different where can don't CFCM( hokkien CPCB ).
Bad for new buyers , good for home owners beside these record setters! these rest of us, just sit back n enjoy the show.
not fair value as this is DBSS with restrictions. With this price, we can opt for EC by paying abit more.
If the price is expensive without restriction, then maybe it is fairer... as it is being compensated by good location. no facility also nvr mind for some as no nid pay maintenance fee.
but if singaporeans still buy, what can we say?Yes yes that was what I meant when I wrote price... at that sort of price, its rather inconceivable that it is only a HDB with all those horrible restrictions. Remember those restrictions were in place so that HDB buyers will not abuse the cheap housing plus all those subsidies. Now, DBSS at $880k is it really that cheap? Maybe cheap to those who earn big bucks but most will still find it a bit steep! :doh:
I conclude it's the location lah!!!! If this one launch special hdb project in orchard road say at the back of cairhill with duxton style special design it will be a sold out , 0 unhappiness !!! Only complain is from pple whom can't get it. 880k will be cheap!!!! Die die must get. Beg n borrow to get DP!
This one launch 880k beside a BTO block sell 440k , pple sure shock!!!! New condo to old condo 30% difference already pple CFCM Liao. New HDB to NEW "packaged" hdb 100% different where can don't CFCM( hokkien CPCB ).
Bad for new buyers , good for home owners beside these record setters! these rest of us, just sit back n enjoy the show.Yes yes.. even our dear Mr K is unhappy le... today's ST headlines... hahaha! SL is doing free advertisement man... good strategy. Save on $100k full page advertisement... some more can earn big money from those ridiculous sales... Hmmm... :spliff2:
Maybe cheap to those who earn big bucks but most will still find it a bit steep! :doh:
u mean f***ing steep for the land price and it non tanjong pager/orchard road location?
Yes yes.. even our dear Mr K is unhappy le... today's ST headlines... hahaha! SL is doing free advertisement man... good strategy. Save on $100k full page advertisement... some more can earn big money from those ridiculous sales... Hmmm... :spliff2:
later he go en bloc those HDB ard the DBSS n build 3-4 EC at SL door step just to show whos BOSS!!!
later he go en bloc those HDB ard the DBSS n build 3-4 EC at SL door step just to show whos BOSS!!!Cannot build EC around the DBSS coz all prices are controlled by private developers. He'll just build 4 BTO projects around and sell all units at $250 psf then see how the developers will survive. Best still he increase BTO income ceiling same as DBSS at $10k. Good show to watch man... Popcorn anybody? :)
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Tampines+EC+site+sets+record+price/
Looks like this year will be a year of record-breaking. Barely a month after we reported the record-breaking price psf for this Choa Chu Kang Executive Condo (EC) site, an EC site at Tampines Central 7 has broken that record.
HDB received a top bid of $278.8 million from Sim Lian. If you recall, the bid for the Choa Chu Kang EC site translates to around $320.9 psf per plot ratio, and the top bid put in by Sim Lian for the Tampines Central 7 site translates to an unprecedented $392.5 psf per plot ratio! Wow!
The good people at Sim Lian must really want this site as their bid is nearly 15% more than second highest bid of $342 psf per plot ratio. Anyway, Sim Lian’s pretty in touch with the Tampines Central region since they are the people behind two DBSS projects at Tampines Ave 5 and Ave 10.
Here comes the part everyone’s interested in: the breakeven cost is estimated to be in the region of $600+ psf, we think. So that means a selling price of around $750 psf or so. They are planning a development of 14 or 15 storeys comprising 660 units of 2-, 3- and 4-bedders. The majority of the units will be 3-bedders, we heard. We’ll keep you updated as we get more news!
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Tampines+EC+site+sets+record+price/
Looks like this year will be a year of record-breaking. Barely a month after we reported the record-breaking price psf for this Choa Chu Kang Executive Condo (EC) site, an EC site at Tampines Central 7 has broken that record.
HDB received a top bid of $278.8 million from Sim Lian. If you recall, the bid for the Choa Chu Kang EC site translates to around $320.9 psf per plot ratio, and the top bid put in by Sim Lian for the Tampines Central 7 site translates to an unprecedented $392.5 psf per plot ratio! Wow!
The good people at Sim Lian must really want this site as their bid is nearly 15% more than second highest bid of $342 psf per plot ratio. Anyway, Sim Lian’s pretty in touch with the Tampines Central region since they are the people behind two DBSS projects at Tampines Ave 5 and Ave 10.
Here comes the part everyone’s interested in: the breakeven cost is estimated to be in the region of $600+ psf, we think. So that means a selling price of around $750 psf or so. They are planning a development of 14 or 15 storeys comprising 660 units of 2-, 3- and 4-bedders. The majority of the units will be 3-bedders, we heard. We’ll keep you updated as we get more news!
Makes sense, if other developer gets EC and launch at 750 psf.. who will buy their DBSS..:2cents:
Now they have all the land in tampines, they can control price..
DBSS 750 psf.. EC at 850 psf..
People have no choice cause they have all the land .. Buy or live without house.:sleep:
Makes sense, if other developer gets EC and launch at 750 psf.. who will buy their DBSS..:2cents:
Now they have all the land in tampines, they can control price..
DBSS 750 psf.. EC at 850 psf..
People have no choice cause they have all the land .. Buy or live without house.:sleep:Think SL really playing monopoly or paying money money? They have no choice but to buy that land indeed. Tel Mr K to launch 5 sites in Tampines at one go and see how SL cope. Then 2 other developers enter to play with SL then more interesting ma.... :p
Sim Lian getting very greedy from what it seems. I got a friend who was one of the founding partners of OrangeTee and when the dot.com burst..... they bought OrangeTee at S$1, assumed a debt of S$100,000, take away all intellectual property rights, inserted their own management.
The result? You got one of the best property marketing firms in today.
Looks like they want to be in the leagues of the big boys, i.e. FEO, Capitaland and FCT.
And their first stepping stone or tail that they stepped on is......
KBW!!!!! the government.... champion.....
Yah lo nothing K*** can do.
the bto plot already priced first, no more land there. The ones who got the bto there should laugh all the way to the bank.
From Centrale Tampines
3 Room : 657 sqft, 397k-510k, 604psf~776 psf
4 Room: 904 sqft, 531k - 683k, 587psf ~ 775 psf
5 Room: 1163 sqft, 685k - 880k, 588psf ~756 psf
660 units of 2-3-4 bedder. Big launch. Should be treated like PC
The EC normal 3 bedroom 1087 sqft (Notice the DBSS 5 room is bigger) starts from 750 psf minimum for less desired units facing the main roads all the way to 850 psf premium units facing Tamp Central. Still ok. Don't forget MRT noise there. It will have very tricky pricing. When face tampines central still need to account for the plot of land right in front in the future. Will the view to the central tio blocked upon purchase of higher floors (10-16 storeys).
Unit share should be reasonable since big development.
Rental wise upon privatisation should be desirable in the future if you believe in Tampines Lake District, CBP story just like JLD (Caspian and Lake Holmz?). Since it is Sim Lian, building quality should be good.
Sim Lian getting very greedy from what it seems. I got a friend who was one of the founding partners of OrangeTee and when the dot.com burst..... they bought OrangeTee at S$1, assumed a debt of S$100,000, take away all intellectual property rights, inserted their own management.
The result? You got one of the best property marketing firms in today.
Looks like they want to be in the leagues of the big boys, i.e. FEO, Capitaland and FCT.
And their first stepping stone or tail that they stepped on is......
KBW!!!!! the government.... champion.....All the best to SL when economy downturns within next 2 years or market goes through correction. :D
So developers should be scared by SL's move or be happy? Scared coz KBW will deal more shrewdly with developers or happy coz prices are all climbing north?
rattydrama
19-06-11, 15:42
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Tampines+EC+site+sets+record+price/
Looks like this year will be a year of record-breaking. Barely a month after we reported the record-breaking price psf for this Choa Chu Kang Executive Condo (EC) site, an EC site at Tampines Central 7 has broken that record.
HDB received a top bid of $278.8 million from Sim Lian. If you recall, the bid for the Choa Chu Kang EC site translates to around $320.9 psf per plot ratio, and the top bid put in by Sim Lian for the Tampines Central 7 site translates to an unprecedented $392.5 psf per plot ratio! Wow!
The good people at Sim Lian must really want this site as their bid is nearly 15% more than second highest bid of $342 psf per plot ratio. Anyway, Sim Lian’s pretty in touch with the Tampines Central region since they are the people behind two DBSS projects at Tampines Ave 5 and Ave 10.
Here comes the part everyone’s interested in: the breakeven cost is estimated to be in the region of $600+ psf, we think. So that means a selling price of around $750 psf or so. They are planning a development of 14 or 15 storeys comprising 660 units of 2-, 3- and 4-bedders. The majority of the units will be 3-bedders, we heard. We’ll keep you updated as we get more news!
Under the current system, there is no necessity for HDB to award to the lowest bidder when comes to building tender. Usually 3 lowest tenders are invited for tender interview and HDB has the sole descretion to select any of the 3, not necessary the lowest bidder. HDB look at contractor resource, current projects on hand and co financial ability amongst others.
Perhaps, HDB should review the land biding system as well since one contractor - Sim Lian capitalised on this loophole. Those who have bidded the land in the same locality should not be allowed to bid because looking at the situation right now, SL price suggest there is an element of price fixing.
In pharma, once gov uncover price-fixing among pharmas, they are being fine big time. this is consumer protection.
data are there to show .... Sim Lian case should be investigated by an Ombudsmen n HDB must take action.
Under the current system, there is no necessity for HDB to award to the lowest bidder when comes to building tender. Usually 3 lowest tenders are invited for tender interview and HDB has the sole descretion to select any of the 3, not necessary the lowest bidder. HDB look at contractor resource, current projects on hand and co financial ability amongst others.
Perhaps, HDB should review the land biding system as well since one contractor - Sim Lian capitalised on this loophole. Those who have bidded the land in the same locality should not be allowed to bid because looking at the situation right now, SL price suggest there is an element of price fixing.
In pharma, once gov uncover price-fixing among pharmas, they are being fine big time. this is consumer protection.
data are there to show .... Sim Lian case should be investigated by an Ombudsmen n HDB must take action.Why award to lowest bidder? :confused:
Sim lian gives good qualty?
Sim lian gives good qualty?That's what others say but no amount of good quality qualifies its high price lah!!! :cheers1: Unless they build their floor with 99.9% pure gold tiles. :D
That's what others say but no amount of good quality qualifies its high price lah!!! :cheers1: Unless they build their floor with 99.9% pure gold tiles. :D
For one I'm surprised they use wire fencing for the parameter of clover by the park. Give me the impression that they try to cut cost. So just wondering.:D
rattydrama
19-06-11, 16:58
Why award to lowest bidder? :confused:
let me try to understand your question. sell land sell to highest bidder. tender building contract is to award to lowest bid- HDB to payout to contractor.
let me try to understand your question. sell land sell to highest bidder. tender building contract is to award to lowest bid- HDB to payout to contractor.So DBSS is not sell land to developer but to ask developer to do up the land! OIC... Good to know... Thought its like EC where HDB has no say also... hahaha!!! :doh:
For one I'm surprised they use wire fencing for the parameter of clover by the park. Give me the impression that they try to cut cost. So just wondering.:DThey use wire fencing so more people can look inside their 2nd and 3rd floor unit...!!! :p
Bedok reservoir next DBSS launch. Chip Eng Seng?
4 Waterfronts by FEO are nearby.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p.nsf/ImageView/CORPORATE_PR_LOCATION%20PLAN%20OF%20BEDOK%20PH1%20DBSS/$file/bedok.jpg
They use wire fencing so more people can look inside their 2nd and 3rd floor unit...!!! :p
Ec at least comes with cocncrete and grill fence line.
linchong84
19-06-11, 21:00
Sim Lian build BTOs also one leh.. I once saw their logo in punggol BTOs before.. How good can their finishing be haha.. They will used the same material as the BTO flats.. If they use premium materials, they would already have haolian this in their advertising or showflats, but they never.. diam diam means same material loh..
No mention of duravits or de dietrich anywhere in their marketing. :D
this could be a very long shot, but i wonder is it possible for HDB owners to request for privatisation? then they can go for en bloc and sell their properties to Sim Lian. :cheers1:
this could be a very long shot, but i wonder is it possible for HDB owners to request for privatisation? then they can go for en bloc and sell their properties to Sim Lian. :cheers1:HDB privatization is pretty new in our system. Very very few and not sure how old must a flat be to qualify. Difficult lah and yes its a very very long shot... :)
Those original Design & Build HDBs are still waiting for their turn to privatise, after all the HUDC's is done. When the Bishan D&B was available for resale in 2002, lots of agent claims that it will be privatised. :doh:
HDB privatization is pretty new in our system. Very very few and not sure how old must a flat be to qualify. Difficult lah and yes its a very very long shot... :)
Khaw must be super dulan at Sim Lian. This adverse publicity is the last thing he needs. Danger is whether he will intro measures to rein in developers now, to make the public happy?
Mayb a 5% Developers Stamp Duty (DSD) for units sold 3 yrs after first launch or something? I dont think the other developers are v happy at Sim Lian's lack of political skills....
Cannot blame SL. It is about Demand and Supply. Wonder why people bite on this project.
Khaw must be super dulan at Sim Lian. This adverse publicity is the last thing he needs. Danger is whether he will intro measures to rein in developers now, to make the public happy?
Mayb a 5% Developers Stamp Duty (DSD) for units sold 3 yrs after first launch or something? I dont think the other developers are v happy at Sim Lian's lack of political skills....
linchong84
20-06-11, 12:14
Sim lian raised white flag liao.. Straits time reported that SL spokesman said that when premiere was launched, the actual prices were much lower than indicative prices, so the actual prices for centrale 8 could be much lower too than the indicative 880k price too.. Haha.. They sibei chao kuan, release high indicative prices to see market reactions first.. If reactives very negative then reduce price.. If no public outburst, then go ahead.. Ha..
Sim Lian is not just chao kuan, they are simply stupid. The adverse publicity simply mean that DBSS will die a natural death under KBW.
Come GE 2016, which MND minister will want to be held responsible for launching $1m DBSS flat in suburbs? If you are in Khaw's shoes, what would you do? Continue to allocate lots for DBSS flats & risk $1m launch? Haha
Those original Design & Build HDBs are still waiting for their turn to privatise, after all the HUDC's is done. When the Bishan D&B was available for resale in 2002, lots of agent claims that it will be privatised. :doh:
Which block numbers werethose under the D&B scheme.
It will be interesting to see how much does Sim Lian pull back their prices by.
devilplate
20-06-11, 15:24
Which block numbers werethose under the D&B scheme.
It will be interesting to see how much does Sim Lian pull back their prices by.
I suspect pull back by 100k:D 780k oredi vy expensive
Cityview at boon keng is worth paying 7xxk for super high flr bcoz of the nice views n the facade looks quite grand machiam like condo....but this one no views at all
proud owner
20-06-11, 15:36
Sim Lian is not just chao kuan, they are simply stupid. The adverse publicity simply mean that DBSS will die a natural death under KBW.
Come GE 2016, which MND minister will want to be held responsible for launching $1m DBSS flat in suburbs? If you are in Khaw's shoes, what would you do? Continue to allocate lots for DBSS flats & risk $1m launch? Haha
yes i dont think we can say they are chao kuan
i think the most chao kuan is FEO ..
i still cant get over that FH becomes 103 yr
devilplate
20-06-11, 15:39
yes i dont think we can say they are chao kuan
i think the most chao kuan is FEO ..
i still cant get over that FH becomes 103 yr
And tat project is 90% sold!:doh:
Khaw must be super dulan at Sim Lian. This adverse publicity is the last thing he needs. Danger is whether he will intro measures to rein in developers now, to make the public happy?
Mayb a 5% Developers Stamp Duty (DSD) for units sold 3 yrs after first launch or something? I dont think the other developers are v happy at Sim Lian's lack of political skills....Other developers won't be unhappy with SL lah... not until Mr K introduce some measures to whack developers big time. Other developers are all super happy with SL that housing prices are climbing like nobody's business... developers huat ah!!! :o
I suspect pull back by 100k:D 780k oredi vy expensive
Cityview at boon keng is worth paying 7xxk for super high flr bcoz of the nice views n the facade looks quite grand machiam like condo....but this one no views at allWhere got no view... view other people's HDB bedrooms and living rooms lor... :) If good conditions, can even view the stars in the sky... :D
i think the most chao kuan is FEO ..
i still cant get over that FH becomes 103 yr
actually FEO had been doing this for quite some time.
the Greenwood houses, all FH land sold as 99LH, how come no one complained ?
Other developers won't be unhappy with SL lah... not until Mr K introduce some measures to whack developers big time. Other developers are all super happy with SL that housing prices are climbing like nobody's business... developers huat ah!!! :o
If I am a developer, I will be unhappy. U increase prices slowly, the impact on the public is not as great. If u gan gan launch $880k flat, this results in great public uproar, and increases pressure on KBW to rein in oligopolisitc developers, eg developer stamp duty on unsold units.
Take a look at social media sites, Temasek Review and CNA market forum to get a feel of Gen Y's outrage.... SL is SME towkay mentality without in-depth strategic thinking...
I wonder how the negotiations for en bloc will be like when the land owner is FEO rather than URA.
devilplate
20-06-11, 18:33
I wonder how the negotiations for en bloc will be like when the land owner is FEO rather than URA.
Most likely wait for lease to expire n take bck the land to redevelop?
Or find a developer to pay for the enbloc px n pay feo to top up the lease bck to fresh 99lh...isit possible?:rolleyes:
What kind of $$ is FEO expecting for lease top up??
If I am a developer, I will be unhappy. U increase prices slowly, the impact on the public is not as great. If u gan gan launch $880k flat, this results in great public uproar, and increases pressure on KBW to rein in oligopolisitc developers, eg developer stamp duty on unsold units.
Take a look at social media sites, Temasek Review and CNA market forum to get a feel of Gen Y's outrage.... SL is SME towkay mentality without in-depth strategic thinking...Don't worry lah. SL just announced that the price reported is not their original price. They only test test market and now realised that it will not go well so revert back to original price. Not sure what that price is... :D
What kind of $$ is FEO expecting for lease top up??$$ enough to finance their advertisement. Think FEO is the only developer rich enough to a 1min advertisement on TV not publicizing any project, just their organization. :scared-4: Even Microsoft don't do that or at least not that I know or can remember! :p
Don't worry lah. SL just announced that the price reported is not their original price. They only test test market and now realised that it will not go well so revert back to original price. Not sure what that price is... :D
They tried to be too clever to test the wallets of potential buyers at a time when everyone is talking about hdb affordability.
Why everyone is complaining? If it is too expensive, then don't buy lah. Go buy HDB in ulu places. Yes, these are more expensive compared to years before but wages have increased as well.
I got my HDB in ulu places because that's what I can afford then. Even a resale was beyond my reach. After some years, we saved and manage to afford a private.
Gen Y wants to have good location, right place, stylish finishing... Ai pi ai qi... Stop complaining and work for it.
Why everyone is complaining? If it is too expensive, then don't buy lah. Go buy HDB in ulu places. Yes, these are more expensive compared to years before but wages have increased as well.
I got my HDB in ulu places because that's what I can afford then. Even a resale was beyond my reach. After some years, we saved and manage to afford a private.
Gen Y wants to have good location, right place, stylish finishing... Ai pi ai qi... Stop complaining and work for it.
I think the general public is expecting some moral responsibility and good corporate citizenship on the part of developers. They can screw the buyers of pte condos for all the want but just leave out public housing, albeit the caveat emptor rule applies regardless which property one buys.
I think SL will be pressured to reduce the actual price judging by the extensive negative publicity they got for this project.
Almost everybody on the street will know "that 880k HDB crazy price lah"
:rolleyes:
I think SL will be pressured to reduce the actual price judging by the extensive negative publicity they got for this project.
Almost everybody on the street will know "that 880k HDB crazy price lah"
:rolleyes:
I think if it was a top floor 5 rm flat around the duxton area. People may lament but not complain. The people are not ready for a 5 rm flat in tampines costing $880k.
I think if it was a top floor 5 rm flat around the duxton area. People may lament but not complain. The people are not ready for a 5 rm flat in tampines costing $880k.Only if Tampines becomes the second CBD in Singapore then ok... :)
Only if Tampines becomes the second CBD in Singapore then ok... :)
Tampines currently quite ulu.
Tampines currently quite ulu.
since tampiness is not on any tectonic plates, it has been, currently is, and will still be ***. Really very far, even from central.
However if one works, lives and play in tampiness, thats ok. There are record no shopping centers and has quiet abit of facilities. I asked a flight attendant today y he dont consider a place at tampiness, he say tampiness too crowded, he doesnt wanna stay there @.@
DBSS sellers need to take their pricing reference from the existing resale units. They can't be priced in a vacuum. Khaw has been doing a pretty decent job since he took the post. Sim Lian has singlehandedly created a very awkward situation for HDB. One wonders whether the rules of engagement for developongand selling DBSS may be altered.
The empire that KBW has painstakingly taken over from MBT and diligently built is single handedly overthrown by SL... :doh: i.e. if buyers bite! But really, if SL revise the prices, they've already created a bad name for themselves!
linchong84
21-06-11, 20:50
Actually Tamp is a good place to stay if one loves lots of shopping centres and works in changi business park..
Haha.. I think "DBSS is not HDB" should be shortlisted as one of the quotes of the year..
Actually Tamp is a good place to stay if one loves lots of shopping centres and works in changi business park..
Haha.. I think "DBSS is not HDB" should be shortlisted as one of the quotes of the year..Classic quote on par with 'I think healthcare is actually quite low and quite manageable in Singapore'. :D
Sim Lian Group Ltd wishes to announce the confirmed price range for Centrale 8 at Tampines:
It is regrettable that during the application period, the media and members of the public did not take note of our repeated public emphasis that the price range which we had announced was only an indicative price range, and would not be the final sale prices for the respective types of flat units.
In view of the interests in Centrale 8 at Tampines, we are pleased to announce the confirmed price range for this DBSS project as follows:
3 Room $389,000 to $445,000
4 Room $511,000 to $592,000
5 Room $685,000 to $778,000
We have taken due consideration of the following criteria in determining the confirmed price range:
1) Resale prices of HDB flats in the same vicinity (taking into account the age and location) ;
2) Prevailing economic conditions ;and
3) Proximity to transport network, good public facilities and other amenities.
Applicants who have successfully submitted their online applications will be able to check the price of each individual unit on 2nd and 3rd July 2011 at the showflat.
===============================================
the prices are out.
linchong84
21-06-11, 22:07
Sim Lian Group Ltd wishes to announce the confirmed price range for Centrale 8 at Tampines:
It is regrettable that during the application period, the media and members of the public did not take note of our repeated public emphasis that the price range which we had announced was only an indicative price range, and would not be the final sale prices for the respective types of flat units.
In view of the interests in Centrale 8 at Tampines, we are pleased to announce the confirmed price range for this DBSS project as follows:
3 Room $389,000 to $445,000
4 Room $511,000 to $592,000
5 Room $685,000 to $778,000
We have taken due consideration of the following criteria in determining the confirmed price range:
1) Resale prices of HDB flats in the same vicinity (taking into account the age and location) ;
2) Prevailing economic conditions ;and
3) Proximity to transport network, good public facilities and other amenities.
Applicants who have successfully submitted their online applications will be able to check the price of each individual unit on 2nd and 3rd July 2011 at the showflat.
===============================================
the prices are out.
LOL.. where u see one? where's the source?
At these prices, ECs are still much better buys. Wait for later launches.
Classic quote on par with 'I think healthcare is actually quite low and quite manageable in Singapore'. :D
One more? "World class opposition":rolleyes:
Sim Lian Group Ltd wishes to announce the confirmed price range for Centrale 8 at Tampines:
It is regrettable that during the application period, the media and members of the public did not take note of our repeated public emphasis that the price range which we had announced was only an indicative price range, and would not be the final sale prices for the respective types of flat units.
In view of the interests in Centrale 8 at Tampines, we are pleased to announce the confirmed price range for this DBSS project as follows:
3 Room $389,000 to $445,000
4 Room $511,000 to $592,000
5 Room $685,000 to $778,000
We have taken due consideration of the following criteria in determining the confirmed price range:
1) Resale prices of HDB flats in the same vicinity (taking into account the age and location) ;
2) Prevailing economic conditions ;and
3) Proximity to transport network, good public facilities and other amenities.
Applicants who have successfully submitted their online applications will be able to check the price of each individual unit on 2nd and 3rd July 2011 at the showflat.
===============================================
the prices are out.
Maybe that 880k thing was a marketing gimmick to attract attention. Now dropped to 778k people will feel that it is cheap and buy buy buy!
:scared-1:
LOL.. where u see one? where's the source?
sgx website, under their corporate announcement.
Maybe that 880k thing was a marketing gimmick to attract attention. Now dropped to 778k people will feel that it is cheap and buy buy buy!
:scared-1:
maybe, just maybe...
linchong84
21-06-11, 22:55
they never reduce enough leh.. 650-750k will be more decent..
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