View Full Version : More expat turning to buying instead?
Recently there was a report that highlight the increase of foreigners buying property, and there is also a report that Singapore is slowing becoming the top destination for expats/FT. Does that means the more companies will start offering FT local terms rather than expat package (due to the attractiveness of working in Singapore) and eventually this will drive these FT to buy property instead of renting?
Just recently a caucasian neighbor was just talking to me about buying after the lease expired. And his reasoning is that i have plans to live here for another 5 years, and with the low interest rate and economic stability it makes more sense to invest in Singapore rather than paying sky high rental.
what your thought on that?
devilplate
25-06-11, 09:58
Recently there was a report that highlight the increase of foreigners buying property, and there is also a report that Singapore is slowing becoming the top destination for expats/FT. Does that means the more companies will start offering FT local terms rather than expat package (due to the attractiveness of working in Singapore) and eventually this will drive these FT to buy property instead of renting?
Just recently a caucasian neighbor was just talking to me about buying after the lease expired. And his reasoning is that i have plans to live here for another 5 years, and with the low interest rate and economic stability it makes more sense to invest in Singapore rather than paying sky high rental.
what your thought on that?
definitely encourage foreigners to BUY BUY BUY!!!
we only give advise to our fellow singaporeans:D
definitely encourage foreigners to BUY BUY BUY!!!
we only give advise to our fellow singaporeans:D
If foreigners buy then no Renters later on, means bigger market crash.. would be good time to buy then...:hell-hath-no-fury:
If this keeps up we gonna head for even bigger crash later on :2cents:
I very much agree with a ST (25 June) comment on its Review and Forum section.
It was quoted that a random Chinese from China saying that the Chinese will soon own Singapore.
The big number of foreigner buyers who come in, buy, constrict supply, then later jack up the price and sell to genuine dwellers does nothing to make Singapore better (except maybe the developers are better off).
The Government should seriously consider the meaning of housing in Singapore. The basic principle of housing is ... housing! The investment component is really secondary.
The Government should start restricting foreigners who has "nothing to do with Singapore" from distorting the market. These vultures are the same as the hedge funds attacking the Asian currencies during Asian Financial Crisis in 1997. They dont add value to our society.
The most efficient housing Buy-Sell transaction is for the developer to sell to the end user directly. Not after passing the hands of numerous people whose aim is just to jack up the price and pass the hot potato to another person. Who gets burnt at the end ? Its the end user!
So, think ... Do we really want foreigners (and trust me, there are many many of them richer than us here) to come and own all our private properties without even being here themselves ? Or even worst move their whole village here and make us the "foreigners" ?
Think my friends ... Think ...
DKSG
devilplate
25-06-11, 10:30
I very much agree with a ST (25 June) comment on its Review and Forum section.
It was quoted that a random Chinese from China saying that the Chinese will soon own Singapore.
The big number of foreigner buyers who come in, buy, constrict supply, then later jack up the price and sell to genuine dwellers does nothing to make Singapore better (except maybe the developers are better off).
The Government should seriously consider the meaning of housing in Singapore. The basic principle of housing is ... housing! The investment component is really secondary.
The Government should start restricting foreigners who has "nothing to do with Singapore" from distorting the market. These vultures are the same as the hedge funds attacking the Asian currencies during Asian Financial Crisis in 1997. They dont add value to our society.
The most efficient housing Buy-Sell transaction is for the developer to sell to the end user directly. Not after passing the hands of numerous people whose aim is just to jack up the price and pass the hot potato to another person. Who gets burnt at the end ? Its the end user!
So, think ... Do we really want foreigners (and trust me, there are many many of them richer than us here) to come and own all our private properties without even being here themselves ? Or even worst move their whole village here and make us the "foreigners" ?
Think my friends ... Think ...
DKSG
u tink too much!
let them buy as much air space as they WANT! i got no worries abt it...furthermore, govt only sell 99LH land to build air space since few decades ago...so NO PROBLEM....let them own for 99yrs and our govt can take back from them FOC!
BUT govt shd tighten foreigner/PR restriction on our FH/999 LANDED!!!!
and also tighten PRs from buying resale HDB flats whereby 80% of our locals r staying in it!
That's a sobering thought. Singaporeans are so happy that the prices go up (those who are vested in pty) but in their greed, they don't realise the long-term effects, that eventually their children and other middle-income Singaporeans will be priced out of their dream home in their own country. The more the Govt moves to clamp down on the prices of HDB flats going up, the bigger will be the gap between HDB and private housing so how do the upgraders make the jump? Especially since FT may also be gunning after their jobs at lower salaries. :banghead: :scared-2:
devilplate
25-06-11, 10:37
That's a sobering thought. Singaporeans are so happy that the prices go up (those who are vested in pty) but in their greed, they don't realise the long-term effects, that eventually their children and other middle-income Singaporeans will be priced out of their dream home in their own country. The more the Govt moves to clamp down on the prices of HDB flats going up, the bigger will be the gap between HDB and private housing so how do the upgraders make the jump? Especially since FT may also be gunning after their jobs at lower salaries. :banghead: :scared-2:
we r not alone in this world! if try to tighten too much on foreigner from buying will one day become like MALAYSIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dream home? must be condo? HDB not gd enuff? den locals goto strive harder and make their dreams come true!
u shd b glad tat foreigners r buying our ppty! meaning to say SG is attractive to them! i only worry the reverse is true after this GE! yng gen CMI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:
The purpose of HDB is NOT to allow those owners to have a small gap to jump over / upgrade to private. Otherwise govt should just quicken asset appreciation of HDB flats! However, that is exactly what all the complaints are: "HDB flats asset appreciation"! :p
HDB should just keep to their original mandate: To private cheap affordable and liveable housing! :beats-me-man:
What DBSS? What EC? That just contradicts their original mandate. :doh:
That's a sobering thought. Singaporeans are so happy that the prices go up (those who are vested in pty) but in their greed, they don't realise the long-term effects, that eventually their children and other middle-income Singaporeans will be priced out of their dream home in their own country. The more the Govt moves to clamp down on the prices of HDB flats going up, the bigger will be the gap between HDB and private housing so how do the upgraders make the jump? Especially since FT may also be gunning after their jobs at lower salaries. :banghead: :scared-2:
The purpose of HDB is NOT to allow those owners to have a small gap to jump over / upgrade to private. Otherwise govt should just quicken asset appreciation of HDB flats! However, that is exactly what all the complaints are: "HDB flats asset appreciation"! :p
HDB should just keep to their original mandate: To private cheap affordable and liveable housing! :beats-me-man:
What DBSS? What EC? That just contradicts their original mandate. :doh:
Agreed regarding the true purpose of HDB. But in reality that is what a lot of Gen Y is using HDB for. Although they are complaining but if the prices of HDB resale remain stagnant or even come down, I don't think they will be happy either. They will be stuck indefinitely in their HDB while they see FT living it up in the condos. Is that what Singaporeans would be content with?
devilplate
25-06-11, 11:25
Agreed regarding the true purpose of HDB. But in reality that is what a lot of Gen Y is using HDB for. Although they are complaining but if the prices of HDB resale remain stagnant or even come down, I don't think they will be happy either. They will be stuck indefinitely in their HDB while they see FT living it up in the condos. Is that what Singaporeans would be content with?
so they must work hard and smart to compete wif global competitors
SG is not a safe heaven!
so they must work hard and smart to compete wif global competitors
SG is not a safe heaven!
I strongly agree with Devilplate points on this matter.
It is jungle out there, perform or be prepared to be sidelined. Those expecting handout, SG is not the place to be.
Kiasu parents are buying for their children now.
That's a sobering thought. Singaporeans are so happy that the prices go up (those who are vested in pty) but in their greed, they don't realise the long-term effects, that eventually their children and other middle-income Singaporeans will be priced out of their dream home in their own country. The more the Govt moves to clamp down on the prices of HDB flats going up, the bigger will be the gap between HDB and private housing so how do the upgraders make the jump? Especially since FT may also be gunning after their jobs at lower salaries. :banghead: :scared-2:
u tink too much!
let them buy as much air space as they WANT! i got no worries abt it...furthermore, govt only sell 99LH land to build air space since few decades ago...so NO PROBLEM....let them own for 99yrs and our govt can take back from them FOC!
BUT govt shd tighten foreigner/PR restriction on our FH/999 LANDED!!!!
and also tighten PRs from buying resale HDB flats whereby 80% of our locals r staying in it!
Totally agree with you man... If they want to buy then go ahead and buy, gahmen justnincrease plot ratio to 10 like in hkg....the biggest myth isnthat Singapore is short of land.... Do you know singapore marina baupy and the tanjong pager confined terminal and will see us thru the next 60 years... 30 years for marina bay area and and other at least 30 years for the tanjong pager container port area, after that lease period up for shenton way, old tanjong pager area and raffles place and the merryngo round continues...
That is the beauty of LH99
I mean look at all the empty land around ALL MRT stations.... Gahmen going to be damn rich man.... Look at bishan, Thomson, area, all the buildings so short.... Pasir panjang also the same....
Allthepies
25-06-11, 13:44
Totally agree with you man... If they want to buy then go ahead and buy, gahmen justnincrease plot ratio to 10 like in hkg....the biggest myth isnthat Singapore is short of land.... Do you know singapore marina baupy and the tanjong pager confined terminal and will see us thru the next 60 years... 30 years for marina bay area and and other at least 30 years for the tanjong pager container port area, after that lease period up for shenton way, old tanjong pager area and raffles place and the merryngo round continues...
That is the beauty of LH99
isn't that wonderful :D
Watch it for coming concept plan 2011. Hope plot ratio revision for those plots.
I mean look at all the empty land around ALL MRT stations.... Gahmen going to be damn rich man.... Look at bishan, Thomson, area, all the buildings so short.... Pasir panjang also the same....
A small trivial for all forummers.... Do you know that new York city itself is just 10% larger than Singapore but theynhave 8m residents.... :D It's in the planning.... If all the MRT are up now and we build more malls and shops... Nobody will complain too crowded... I also don't like a city too crowded, but on the flip side, i agree with the planners that we need a certain mass to create buzz and economies of scale.... If Clarke quay andnorchard road is empty, will it be nice? No buzz you will also find it boring....
A small trivial for all forummers.... Do you know that new York city itself is just 10% larger than Singapore but theynhave 8m residents.... :D It's in the planning.... If all the MRT are up now and we build more malls and shops... Nobody will complain too crowded... I also don't like a city too crowded, but on the flip side, i agree with the planners that we need a certain mass to create buzz and economies of scale.... If Clarke quay andnorchard road is empty, will it be nice? No buzz you will also find it boring....
:tsk-tsk: dun use urban cities of big nations.
Singapore is a city nation. Land need to cater for water & military needs too. That means only 60% of Spore land is potentially reserved for residential and amenities...
Spore infrastructure definitely needs to catch-up for enlarged population..
:tsk-tsk: dun use urban cities of big nations.
Singapore is a city nation. Land need to cater for water & military needs too. That means only 60% of Spore land is potentially reserved for residential and amenities...
Spore infrastructure definitely needs to catch-up for enlarged population..Good point! :cheers1:
Good point.... So actually maybe 6.5m is an ideal number after all :D
Spore is already up there with HK in terms of density... this is not a good thing in terms of public health. See now HK kena dunno what scarlet fever...
My colleague's tenant has also bought a unit waiting for TOP in 1 years+ time and shift out. Potential landlords thought they are smart by investing in 1/2 bedders to rent out to earn rental and capital gain. Tenants are not stupid either. When the TOP party starts next year, it would be interesting. Better to buy for own stay.
kingkong1984
25-06-11, 21:38
My colleague's tenant has also bought a unit waiting for TOP in 1 years+ time and shift out. Potential landlords thought they are smart by investing in 1/2 bedders to rent out to earn rental and capital gain. Tenants are not stupid either. When the TOP party starts next year, it would be interesting. Better to buy for own stay.
Yes.... All property owners start out as tenants.. Can be considered owners only when the property is fully paid. Otherwise, tenants.
As a kid, they tenant a room from parents for free.
My guess is rental market is starting to weaken. In propertyguru, I see relatively new 2-bedders MM near MRT rental rate is only around $2.8k/mth. Next year probably it could weaken to $2.5k/mth if the economy remains at this level.
plot ratio adjustment is how space is created literally out of thin air. only a matter of time.
Recently there was a report that highlight the increase of foreigners buying property, and there is also a report that Singapore is slowing becoming the top destination for expats/FT. Does that means the more companies will start offering FT local terms rather than expat package (due to the attractiveness of working in Singapore) and eventually this will drive these FT to buy property instead of renting?
Just recently a caucasian neighbor was just talking to me about buying after the lease expired. And his reasoning is that i have plans to live here for another 5 years, and with the low interest rate and economic stability it makes more sense to invest in Singapore rather than paying sky high rental.
what your thought on that?
Well....this is a new alternative of buying interest...In the end, is the supply and demand in the market...
So the important thing now is to renew your tenancy with tenants in 2012 for 2 years, hopefully can weather through all the TOP period... If they reveal they've just bought, then quickly look for those who can stay 2 years... best 3 years! :p
rattydrama
26-06-11, 09:41
Kiasu parents are buying for their children now.
this is not wrong if you have the means.
rattydrama
26-06-11, 09:47
My colleague's tenant has also bought a unit waiting for TOP in 1 years+ time and shift out. Potential landlords thought they are smart by investing in 1/2 bedders to rent out to earn rental and capital gain. Tenants are not stupid either. When the TOP party starts next year, it would be interesting. Better to buy for own stay.
maybe need to change investment strategy to look at 2+1 or 3 bedder as potentially there could be capital gain as these foreigners start to buy for own stay? :D
What's the % of tenants will buy?
My colleague's tenant has also bought a unit waiting for TOP in 1 years+ time and shift out. Potential landlords thought they are smart by investing in 1/2 bedders to rent out to earn rental and capital gain. Tenants are not stupid either. When the TOP party starts next year, it would be interesting. Better to buy for own stay.
May apply to certain mm units. Hve non mm units recently renewed awith an increase of 25%.
My guess is rental market is starting to weaken. In propertyguru, I see relatively new 2-bedders MM near MRT rental rate is only around $2.8k/mth. Next year probably it could weaken to $2.5k/mth if the economy remains at this level.
maybe need to change investment strategy to look at 2+1 or 3 bedder as potentially there could be capital gain as these foreigners start to buy for own stay? :D IMO, 2 bedder r gd investment & rental.
PR made up 20% of resale HDB buyer. Is this is rising trend?
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/pdf/20110625/ST_IMAGES_JCHDB26-7LC.pdf
rattydrama
26-06-11, 11:14
maybe need to change investment strategy to look at 2+1 or 3 bedder as potentially there could be capital gain as these foreigners start to buy for own stay? :D IMO, 2 bedder r gd investment & rental.
I am just saying if there is too much supply the rental yield may no longer be attractive in the next 2-3 years. so it may make sense to buy a slighter bigger unit and go for sale 3-4 years later as there would be upside potential since those renters may now look to buy for self stay.
IMO, 2 bedder r gd investment & rental.
I am just saying if there is too much supply the rental yield may no longer be attractive in the next 2-3 years. so it may make sense to buy a slighter bigger unit and go for sale 3-4 years later as there would be upside potential since those renters may now look to buy for self stay.[/QUOTE]
Small er unit like 2 or 2+1 might bk more affordable for them.
The new launches 2-bed mms are the future old 1 bedder. If 2 bedders are the way to go, 3 bedder compact new launch will be popular.
Moving forward, yields of new 3 bedder compact will command same yield as older 2 bedder which are bigger in size.
1 bedder mm is a very risky play now.
kingkong1984
26-06-11, 16:06
The new launches 2-bed mms are the future old 1 bedder. If 2 bedders are the way to go, 3 bedder compact new launch will be popular.
Moving forward, yields of new 3 bedder compact will command same yield as older 2 bedder which are bigger in size.
1 bedder mm is a very risky play now.
Wise. I agree.. That's why can get 1 bedder firesales later with a big chance of success, 2014 will be very good.
Buy 750 to 1000 sqf at 750k to 850k with at least 2 bedders. U won't be very wrong with that. Still can look forward to big price appreciation if SSD are removed. It will.. My guess. U have to wait for a crash and a period of misery before they are removed.
rattydrama
26-06-11, 16:36
Wise. I agree.. That's why can get 1 bedder firesales later with a big chance of success, 2014 will be very good.
Buy 750 to 1000 sqf at 750k to 850k with at least 2 bedders. U won't be very wrong with that. Still can look forward to big price appreciation if SSD are removed. It will.. My guess. U have to wait for a crash and a period of misery before they are removed.
750k - 850k... which district you referring?
now some also @around this price wor..
kingkong1984
26-06-11, 19:55
750k - 850k... which district you referring?
now some also @around this price wor..
i thought u familiar with miltonia pricing? maybe 8 courtyards etc.. u have to ue property guru to look. start looking after 6 months.
Only Asian tenants from china India, korea and japan will buy... All other ang moh will find ournproperties too expensive relative to where they came from so they are unwilling to part with their money..... It's a mental and psychological barrier...
devilplate
26-06-11, 23:36
Only Asian tenants from china India, korea and japan will buy... All other ang moh will find ournproperties too expensive relative to where they came from so they are unwilling to part with their money..... It's a mental and psychological barrier...
Its not tat.....Ang mor nvr believe in brick n mortar....they prefer equities
Wise. I agree.. That's why can get 1 bedder firesales later with a big chance of success, 2014 will be very good.
Buy 750 to 1000 sqf at 750k to 850k with at least 2 bedders. U won't be very wrong with that. Still can look forward to big price appreciation if SSD are removed. It will.. My guess. U have to wait for a crash and a period of misery before they are removed.
I wonder how much mm will correct? Correct to 2 bedder psf? Wonder which district mm to whack by then.
Big and older units will do just finez. The worry is with high priced mm.
devilplate
27-06-11, 00:53
I wonder how much mm will correct? Correct to 2 bedder psf? Wonder which district mm to whack by then.
Big and older units will do just finez. The worry is with high priced mm.
Y wud u want to buy mm during a downturn? Hoot bigger units lah ;)
Y wud u want to buy mm during a downturn? Hoot bigger units lah ;)Yes... bigger units are always the way to go in the coming years... Can't run away de! Its always a cycle! :)
Jonathan0503
27-06-11, 09:35
Yes... bigger units are always the way to go in the coming years... Can't run away de! Its always a cycle! :)
I would think decent size MM in good location will still be in demand
Haha. Ok. Gotta save more vitamin m.
proud owner
27-06-11, 10:00
Yes... bigger units are always the way to go in the coming years... Can't run away de! Its always a cycle! :)
great minds think alike
Only Asian tenants from china India, korea and japan will buy... All other ang moh will find ournproperties too expensive relative to where they came from so they are unwilling to part with their money..... It's a mental and psychological barrier...
Singapore is now one of the top expat destination in the world and it is no longer a place that only appeals to Asian. Any PR who are paid local package will consider buying because of the ridicules rental hike every 1 to 2 years, the low interest rate, strong S$, and strength of Singapore economy compared to Europe or USA.
Just recently my European neighbor just told us that they have decided to get a place rather than renting. Even if property prices drop by 10% in 2 to 3 years, it will still make economic sense to buy rather than rent.
The rental market is looking gloom in years to come when more PRs and FT are buying rather than renting. Well, I suppose only those FT who know they are staying here for more than 2 years, they'll buy rather than rent and use the company's accommodation allowance to subsidize their monthly mortgage payment! :D (But I think some companies don't allow!)
great minds think alikeSo which room type would be the most appealing? I think a 2 bedder will be the most in demand! Personally I like the 4 bedders but it may not be a good investment choice. What do the rest think? :o
proud owner
27-06-11, 11:19
So which room type would be the most appealing? I think a 2 bedder will be the most in demand! Personally I like the 4 bedders but it may not be a good investment choice. What do the rest think? :o
i like 3-4 bedder ..
will consider 2 bedder as well ... in the city ... as my retirement 'city' home
But the size is more impt to me ...
2 bedder > 800 sqft
3 bedder > 1500 sqft
4 bedder > 2000 sqft
will not consider a 3 bedder if its <1200 sqft ..especially when one takes away the balcony + baywindows etc .. its really small ...for me
Singapore is now one of the top expat destination in the world and it is no longer a place that only appeals to Asian. Any PR who are paid local package will consider buying because of the ridicules rental hike every 1 to 2 years, the low interest rate, strong S$, and strength of Singapore economy compared to Europe or USA.
Just recently my European neighbor just told us that they have decided to get a place rather than renting. Even if property prices drop by 10% in 2 to 3 years, it will still make economic sense to buy rather than rent.
common case lol..
a frd tenant's forgo his deposit, staying for 6months only.
the tenant bgt a new place,and rent out his one room to subsidy his mortgage.
So which room type would be the most appealing? I think a 2 bedder will be the most in demand! Personally I like the 4 bedders but it may not be a good investment choice. What do the rest think? :o
Agree. 2 bedders with 2 decent size rooms (not a tiny hole for the 2nd BR). In a good location near to MRT. But I don't think it's the right time to buy unless you really really don't have anywhere else to park your money. Wait till the oversupply of MM going to TOP floods the market and see how it goes. Those with no holding power may surrender their gems. I think it's not worth to buy new developments. That's my :2cents:
Agree. 2 bedders with 2 decent size rooms (not a tiny hole for the 2nd BR). In a good location near to MRT. But I don't think it's the right time to buy unless you really really don't have anywhere else to park your money. Wait till the oversupply of MM going to TOP floods the market and see how it goes. Those with no holding power may surrender their gems. I think it's not worth to buy new developments. That's my :2cents:Well, if gonna buy 2 bedders, MM oversupply scenario will have little effect on larger units? Or am I mistaken? I'll not get MM studio units.
devilplate
27-06-11, 11:29
The rental market is looking gloom in years to come when more PRs and FT are buying rather than renting. Well, I suppose only those FT who know they are staying here for more than 2 years, they'll buy rather than rent and use the company's accommodation allowance to subsidize their monthly mortgage payment! :D (But I think some companies don't allow!)
renter turned buyers ok wat....y will it affect the rental market?:beats-me-man:
let say got 10 units currently rented out...one decide to buy instead of renewing the rent....den market become 9units for rental n aso less one renter....balanced equation rite?
only worry is oversupply and not enuff influx of FT to fill the empty units
if housing allowance is paid on corporate lease terms, den the expat will lose the housing perks once he/she bot a place....tats wat my tenant told me when i asked him y nvr consider buying a place instead of renting
Only Asian tenants from china India, korea and japan will buy... All other ang moh will find ournproperties too expensive relative to where they came from so they are unwilling to part with their money..... It's a mental and psychological barrier...
just like some of our ang mo colleagues.. they rent cars instead of buying because theirs back home are so cheap
renter turned buyers ok wat....y will it affect the rental market?:beats-me-man:
let say got 10 units currently rented out...one decide to buy instead of renewing the rent....den market become 9units for rental n aso less one renter....balanced equation rite?
only worry is oversupply and not enuff influx of FT to fill the empty units
if housing allowance is paid on corporate lease terms, den the expat will lose the housing perks once he/she bot a place....tats wat my tenant told me when i asked him y nvr consider buying a place instead of rentingWell if renter wants to buy, he'll buy from owners looking to sell and not from owners looking to rent so one less renter in the renting market and one more buyer in the selling market! So sellers benefit but if I don't intend to sell yet, I'll be that extra one more unit in the renting market competing with others looking to rent! Complicated equation but true!
Yes oversupply is a big problem but I think Mr K will try to minimize it where possible! His tenure depends on it! Hahaha.. very funny if MBT cause undersupply with HDB and KBW cause oversupply. Ironic, isn't it? :p
devilplate
27-06-11, 11:37
Agree. 2 bedders with 2 decent size rooms (not a tiny hole for the 2nd BR). In a good location near to MRT. But I don't think it's the right time to buy unless you really really don't have anywhere else to park your money. Wait till the oversupply of MM going to TOP floods the market and see how it goes. Those with no holding power may surrender their gems. I think it's not worth to buy new developments. That's my :2cents:
right now, most ocr resale px r similar or jus a little cheaper den ocr new launches....to me, resale must b at least 150psf cheaper compared to new launches to redo it to brandnew condition within the unit....and u can nvr change the outdated facade and design n common area to brandnew
devilplate
27-06-11, 11:43
just like some of our ang mo colleagues.. they rent cars instead of buying because theirs back home are so cheap
expats definitely prefer to rent cars den to buy one but its due to heavy depreciation if they gona resell it within 1-2yrs time.....and not bcoz back hm is cheaper la
renting a car for 10yrs is alot more ex den buying the same car
right now, most ocr resale px r similar or jus a little cheaper den ocr new launches....to me, resale must b at least 150psf cheaper compared to new launches to redo it to brandnew condition within the unit....and u can nvr change the outdated facade and design n common area to brandnewTotally agreed. The amount of cash upfront to do reno for resale is so so much! Sigh! Well, even brand new units require minor reno like lights and other small stuff! All is about money!!! :2cents::2cents::2cents::2cents::2cents:
Well if renter wants to buy, he'll buy from owners looking to sell and not from owners looking to rent so one less renter in the renting market and one more buyer in the selling market! So sellers benefit but if I don't intend to sell yet, I'll be that extra one more unit in the renting market competing with others looking to rent! Complicated equation but true!
Yes oversupply is a big problem but I think Mr K will try to minimize it where possible! His tenure depends on it! Hahaha.. very funny if MBT cause undersupply with HDB and KBW cause oversupply. Ironic, isn't it? :p
Most probably we end up with many empty houses, but with prices difficult to come down significantly (unless other costs go up a lot) due to support from buyers. Much like in China first tier cities where many condos remain 30-40% unoccupied for more than 1 year after TOP.
devilplate
27-06-11, 11:47
Well, if gonna buy 2 bedders, MM oversupply scenario will have little effect on larger units? Or am I mistaken? I'll not get MM studio units.
if let say 2bedder decent sized rental fetching 5k now....den 1bedder decent sized fetch 3.5-4k for eg....and MM in the vicinity fetch 2.5-3k now....
so if Mm oversupply and rental drop to 1.5k from 3k.....wat u tink of the decent sized 1/2bedder rental?
cud be 2 guys sharing a 2bedder at 5k now....each fork out 2.5k.....den MM drop to 1.5k....will they each rent a MM each at lower px and enjoy privacy? i will if i were them
but of coz, impact is not tat great n immediate bcoz a family of 3 for eg can nvr downgrade from a 2bedder to a MM
Well, if gonna buy 2 bedders, MM oversupply scenario will have little effect on larger units? Or am I mistaken? I'll not get MM studio units.
If price of MM goes down, it will likely drag the rest of the market downwards too as confidence in pty as investment will be down too..
This is my own experience. In terms of yield, my 99 LH 2 bedder (D10) has significantly better yield than my FH 3 bedder (D11).
devilplate
27-06-11, 12:11
If price of MM goes down, it will likely drag the rest of the market downwards too as confidence in pty as investment will be down too..
This is my own experience. In terms of yield, my 99 LH 2 bedder (D10) has significantly better yield than my FH 3 bedder (D11).
i am very surprised tat u own a 99LH ppty
devilplate
27-06-11, 12:12
Most probably we end up with many empty houses, but with prices difficult to come down significantly (unless other costs go up a lot) due to support from buyers. Much like in China first tier cities where many condos remain 30-40% unoccupied for more than 1 year after TOP.
china very different la.....
in SG, most local buyers depend on mortgage leh....china ppl over there mainly use full cash or little loan
so how many singaporeans can afford to leave their units empty while paying mthly installment....not many
china very different la.....
in SG, most local buyers depend on mortgage leh....china ppl over there mainly use full cash or little loan
so how many singaporeans can afford to leave their units empty while paying mthly installment....not many
If you were to check out those high end projects, most owners would leave empty rather than rent out. Their main focus is capital gain rather than rental yield. I am speaking from personal experience as I have a unit in Paterson whereby the whole floor is empty except for my unit which is tenanted. The project has TOPed for quite a while and I think the occupancy rate is just 40-50%.
china very different la.....
in SG, most local buyers depend on mortgage leh....china ppl over there mainly use full cash or little loan
so how many singaporeans can afford to leave their units empty while paying mthly installment....not many
many, but it is mostly HDB in undesired locations...
cannot rent, so left empty for 5 yrs.....
i am very surprised tat u own a 99LH ppty
haha yes I own a 99LH ppty.
Based on the price I paid for it 4 years ago (it was a resale), my yield nett of everything (bank interest, agents commission, management fees, property tax, repairs) is 3.3%. Based on today's price of a similar recently transacted unit, it would be 2.3%.
Perhaps I should sell it. :p
If you were to check out those high end projects, most owners would leave empty rather than rent out. Their main focus is capital gain rather than rental yield. I am speaking from personal experience as I have a unit in Paterson whereby the whole floor is empty except for my unit which is tenanted. The project has TOPed for quite a while and I think the occupancy rate is just 40-50%.
Thats probably because those units are fully paid up and that the premium one can sell in the original developer condition out weigh the potential rental income for the 1 to 2 years.
Thats probably because those units are fully paid up and that the premium one can sell in the original developer condition out weigh the potential rental income for the 1 to 2 years.
I don't think that such units will be full cash payment unless bought by PRC dudes. Most investors will take at least 30-40% loan on such units so as to enjoy some form of leverage.
Personally, I take 40% loan on such units as the rental yield is much lower compared to smaller size units whereby 50-60% loan is a safe margin. Also, one must remember to set aside liquidity amounting to 2-3 years of mortgage payment for each property owned as a further safety margin. This amount of money can either be used for cash top up in downturn or proof of funds when obtaining more loans.
Frankly, most original "developer" condition high end units are disappointing in terms of choice of type of grade of materials used. It could still be full marble but the choice of grade is poor. The same goes for laminate etc. So most people keep it empty so that the next homebuyer will have the "first hand" feel which is worth a premium in SG.
Many of the older 3 bedders (TOP 2004 and before) about 1200 sqft is as spacious (if not more spacious) than the newer 14xx sqft units!!! :banghead:
So better see for yourself, never base on the quoted size in SQFT anymore!
i like 3-4 bedder ..
will consider 2 bedder as well ... in the city ... as my retirement 'city' home
But the size is more impt to me ...
2 bedder > 800 sqft
3 bedder > 1500 sqft
4 bedder > 2000 sqft
will not consider a 3 bedder if its <1200 sqft ..especially when one takes away the balcony + baywindows etc .. its really small ...for me
Really? What an irony, most CCR resale price so cheap compared to CCR new launch! :doh:
right now, most ocr resale px r similar or jus a little cheaper den ocr new launches....to me, resale must b at least 150psf cheaper compared to new launches to redo it to brandnew condition within the unit....and u can nvr change the outdated facade and design n common area to brandnew
devilplate
27-06-11, 16:23
Really? What an irony, most CCR resale price so cheap compared to CCR new launch! :doh:
Yes....diff of about 150-200psf at most n new launches sizes abit smaller so quantum about the same or lesser....
And reno cost at least 50-100psf to turn it bck to almost brandnew condition....so i feel better to get new launches if only 150psf diff....in term of percentage cud b alot la...650psf vs 800psf for instance....150/650=23% whereas ccr resale let say 2000psf, 23% work out to be close to 2500psf for new launches....so resale ccr cud b of better value:2cents: :spliff2:
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