View Full Version : Shoebox Units: How small is too small?
http://www.straitstimes.com/Singapore/Story/STIStory_683671.html
Jun 25, 2011
Shoebox Units: How small is too small?
Let market forces decide, Khaw says
By Esther Teo & Ian Poh
THERE are no plans to impose a minimum size on increasingly popular shoebox flats, according to National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan yesterday.
Mr Khaw wrote on his blog that he is inclined to let market forces determine if such flats, which are smaller than 500 sq ft, have a place in the property spectrum. A standard HDB three-room flat is about 700 sq ft.
'Some analysts wonder aloud if buyers know what they are in for. Some have suggested that the Government should step in to impose a minimum size,' the minister noted. 'My instinct is not to second-guess the market. Some shoebox units do add to the diversity of housing options here. But we are closely watching its development.'
But he did sound a warning, urging buyers to 'go in with eyes open'.
Mr Khaw wrote that while 1,100 flats have already been built, the figure is expected to balloon to 3,800 by 2014.
Newer shoebox projects are also in the suburbs, with their appeal to tenants untested, he said, adding that it is important for potential buyers to weigh the benefits and risks carefully.
Sales of shoebox flats have increased more than six times, from 300 units in 2008 to 1,900 last year. They represented 6 per cent of new private home sales in 2008, but 12 per cent last year.
Their small size also means higher per sq ft prices but low overall values - often below $1 million - providing an affordable quantum for buyers.
In fact, Singaporeans made up 80 per cent of shoebox home buyers, presumably making the purchase as an investment in the hope of renting it out to expatriates or singles, Mr Khaw said. He added that some developers who bid high prices for land sites might be planning to build shoebox units, which will further add to the build-up of stock.
While the Government will stay its hand for now, the minister touched on the roles that different stakeholders can play - to empower home buyers and to better assess the situation.
'On our part, we are requiring developers to give buyers an accurate representation of the units they are buying, both within the showflats and in the sales materials,' he added.
'Analysts can also help refine their analysis by including separate analyses for each category of housing products. Comparing price per sq ft for different products is like comparing apples with oranges.'
The Urban Redevelopment Authority told The Straits Times yesterday that these units accounted for only 8 per cent of all sale transactions in the first half of this year, and so there is no need for a separate index for shoebox flats,
Experts say tenant demand for shoebox flats remains healthy due to the strong economy and tight labour market, which has brought more foreigners to Singapore.
Global Property Strategic Alliance chief executive Jeffrey Hong said a shoebox unit in Balestier can be rented out for about $2,300 to $2,600 a month.
He expects the upcoming supply - especially for larger shoeboxes of more than 400 sq ft - to be absorbed should the economy continue to power ahead.
But Mr Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International, reckons that shoeboxes will be the first casualties if rental demand falls: 'The segment itself could become a bubble drawing in overly optimistic investors... They might find that their initial expected returns will not be met.'
Civil servant Kenneth Wong, 37, said he bought a shoebox unit as it was small and easy to maintain. He has lived in the 450 sq ft apartment at Thomson V One in Sin Ming Road for the past two years.
'I don't really find the place claustrophobic or unliveable, I think it's suitable for singles who don't have much to clean up,' he said. 'Personally, I like it but, if prices go down, I would be open to moving out to have a bit more space.'
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talk so much, end of day just "leave it to the mkt"~ :tongue3:
Of course he cannot impose any minimum area. At the current psf of $1200 psf to $1600 psf in many OCR, most of these MM units are already costing ridiculous amount so smaller sized ones would naturally make economic sense. If he impose a minimum area, then he's essentially forcing a group of buyers out of this category and will be looking for him to help them in their housing woes! :banghead: He got enough problem on hand to deal with! :D
kingkong1984
28-06-11, 16:02
can lah.. minimum is 1 sqf...
can u squeeze in if it is less than that?
talk so much, end of day just "leave it to the mkt"~ :tongue3:
yday news they interview some aunty who said, we keep it for our children
yday news they interview some aunty who said, we keep it for our childrenU mean these aunties said they want to leave these miserably sized units for their children? They hate their children, izzit? I'd rather leave a 2 bedder or 3 bedder for mine! :D Then again I may not if I'm still around. I want my kids to earn their living and not just depend on parents... :p
U mean these aunties said they want to leave these miserably sized units for their children? They hate their children, izzit? I'd rather leave a 2 bedder or 3 bedder for mine! :D Then again I may not if I'm still around. I want my kids to earn their living and not just depend on parents... :p
who knows these kinda of small mm are crown jewel in future ?
devilplate
28-06-11, 16:27
U mean these aunties said they want to leave these miserably sized units for their children? They hate their children, izzit? I'd rather leave a 2 bedder or 3 bedder for mine! :D Then again I may not if I'm still around. I want my kids to earn their living and not just depend on parents... :p
Vitamin m not enuff mah....want near mrt n city fringe and vit m only 600k.....how?
kingkong1984
28-06-11, 18:24
Vitamin m not enuff mah....want near mrt n city fringe and vit m only 600k.....how?
D14 old units.
devilplate
28-06-11, 18:29
D14 old units.
Even geylang mm cost u 5xxk liao
location location location. A MM in prime location will still be sought after... for rental or sale.
What's wrong with leaving MMs to children.:mad: They should be damn grateful for whatever you leave them. Besides, the MMs can be for rental, nobody ask the kids to stay in there if they can afford better.:)
kingkong1984
28-06-11, 18:42
Even geylang mm cost u 5xxk liao
Yup, u didn't state size.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/4751895/for-sale-royce-stamp-duty-absorb-good-facing
devilplate
28-06-11, 18:50
Yup, u didn't state size.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/4751895/for-sale-royce-stamp-duty-absorb-good-facing
This one hardcore hehe.... Ur son will b vy grateful but not daughter hehe
proud owner
29-06-11, 09:00
U mean these aunties said they want to leave these miserably sized units for their children? They hate their children, izzit? I'd rather leave a 2 bedder or 3 bedder for mine! :D Then again I may not if I'm still around. I want my kids to earn their living and not just depend on parents... :p
you re my kind of guy ...
my belief ...
show them the paths in life ...
not pave their paths
devilplate
29-06-11, 09:37
you re my kind of guy ...
my belief ...
show them the paths in life ...
not pave their paths
jus throw them out to the jungle la like commando training:D
Noticed KBW only mentioned standard 3 room HDB flat size? 1 room HDB about 250 sq ft, 2 room HDB about 440 sq ft. HDB houses many people in such rental flats, even whole families. So how can KBW prohibit shoe box apartments?
devilplate
29-06-11, 10:48
Noticed KBW only mentioned standard 3 room HDB flat size? 1 room HDB about 250 sq ft, 2 room HDB about 440 sq ft. HDB houses many people in such rental flats, even whole families. So how can KBW prohibit shoe box apartments?
u got the point there
and hdb 3rm flat allows max 6pax staying in it!
MMs usually 1-2 person only....so its a bad comparison to use 3rm flat vs MM!
but den personally, MM shd be 500sqft and above la.....450sqft without baywindow/planter box/balcony/HS doable for me too(for eg. 452sqft 8cy)
Jonathan0503
29-06-11, 14:36
u got the point there
and hdb 3rm flat allows max 6pax staying in it!
MMs usually 1-2 person only....so its a bad comparison to use 3rm flat vs MM!
but den personally, MM shd be 500sqft and above la.....450sqft without baywindow/planter box/balcony/HS doable for me too(for eg. 452sqft 8cy)
Actually I'm ok with baywindow if it extends all the way to the celling. It still make the room as spacious.
Its only those that ends half way before the ceiling that does not add space to the room
Actually I'm ok with baywindow if it extends all the way to the celling. It still make the room as spacious.
Its only those that ends half way before the ceiling that does not add space to the roomBaywindows that extends all the way to the ceiling is merely an extra piece of wall and I'll certainly be unwilling to pay for 2 layers of wall! :D Half height bay windows (aka normal baywindows) can still be utilized one way or another. Its just how your ID do it up for you! :o At most use them as make shift coffee tables, book shelves or even leg rest! :cheers1:
Jonathan0503
29-06-11, 18:34
Baywindows that extends all the way to the ceiling is merely an extra piece of wall and I'll certainly be unwilling to pay for 2 layers of wall! :D Half height bay windows (aka normal baywindows) can still be utilized one way or another. Its just how your ID do it up for you! :o At most use them as make shift coffee tables, book shelves or even leg rest! :cheers1:
Think you misunderstood what I mean. Maybe window that extends all the way up to the ceiling means you will have a larger ceiling area.
The surface of the baywindow can still be coverted to shelf, seater with cushion, etc
Think you misunderstood what I mean. Maybe window that extends all the way up to the ceiling means you will have a larger ceiling area.
The surface of the baywindow can still be coverted to shelf, seater with cushion, etcHahaha! Ok... that sounds much much better! Cheers! :cheers1:
u got the point there
and hdb 3rm flat allows max 6pax staying in it!
MMs usually 1-2 person only....so its a bad comparison to use 3rm flat vs MM!
but den personally, MM shd be 500sqft and above la.....450sqft without baywindow/planter box/balcony/HS doable for me too(for eg. 452sqft 8cy)
BTW, what is baywindow and planter box?:confused:
If a new couple bought a HDB flat, can they rent a room from the HDB first while waiting for the flat, is there any income ceiling?:beats-me-man:
BTW, what is baywindow and planter box?:confused:
If a new couple bought a HDB flat, can they rent a room from the HDB first while waiting for the flat, is there any income ceiling?:beats-me-man:A baywindow is a concept introduced to all private condos some years back. It is actually nothing more than a piece of concrete protrusion from the based of half height windows (windows that do not run the full height of the wall) which is usually absent in HDB flats. It had recently been done away again so most new launches boast the fact that their floor area can be smaller, translating to lower price (not really) because of the absence of these baywindows.
A planter box is another silly concept that is usually located at the edge of balconies with a recess (drop down hole) for the purpose of putting plants, etc for beautifying purposes! Most people prefer to cover it up to maximise floor usage but the law forbids any tiles or concrete covering of planter boxes so owners usually resort to timber strips, etc!
Don't think there's any restriction on renting for new couples waiting for their flats! Cheers! :cheers1:
A baywindow is a concept introduced to all private condos some years back. It is actually nothing more than a piece of concrete protrusion from the based of half height windows (windows that do not run the full height of the wall) which is usually absent in HDB flats. It had recently been done away again so most new launches boast the fact that their floor area can be smaller, translating to lower price (not really) because of the absence of these baywindows.
A planter box is another silly concept that is usually located at the edge of balconies with a recess (drop down hole) for the purpose of putting plants, etc for beautifying purposes! Most people prefer to cover it up to maximise floor usage but the law forbids any tiles or concrete covering of planter boxes so owners usually resort to timber strips, etc!
Don't think there's any restriction on renting for new couples waiting for their flats! Cheers! :cheers1:
Oh, I don't think I ever see the baywindow before. Might be a silly question but still curious to confirm, is the piece of concrete protruding from the inside or outside the base of the half-height windows. :scared-5:
Oh, I don't think I ever see the baywindow before. Might be a silly question but still curious to confirm, is the piece of concrete protruding from the inside or outside the base of the half-height windows. :scared-5:Its protruding into the inside of the house, thus it occupies space which many owners don't like! My old condo don't have baywindow... I like it! :D
Its protruding into the inside of the house, thus it occupies space which many owners don't like! My old condo don't have baywindow... I like it! :D
Doesn't it looks funny?:eek:
location location location. A MM in prime location will still be sought after... for rental or sale.
What's wrong with leaving MMs to children.:mad: They should be damn grateful for whatever you leave them. Besides, the MMs can be for rental, nobody ask the kids to stay in there if they can afford better.:)
Agree, they should be grateful to their parents to leave a pot of gold for them. I think most of them will sell it away and share among the siblings once their parents are not around. :banghead:
Doesn't it looks funny?:eek:With the amount of paid wasted space, it don't just look funny. It looks disgusting! That is also why many ID will crack their minds to maximise the use of those seemingly wasted space! Some have been pretty successful in doing so! :D
With the amount of paid wasted space, it don't just look funny. It looks disgusting! That is also why many ID will crack their minds to maximise the use of those seemingly wasted space! Some have been pretty successful in doing so! :D
If the A/C ledge is too big, do you think we can use it to store our things or plant flowers but there is no door to go in, need to climb from the bedroom window leh?:banghead:
If the A/C ledge is too big, do you think we can use it to store our things or plant flowers but there is no door to go in, need to climb from the bedroom window leh?:banghead:Hahaha! I've discussed this on the forum already. Can get contractor to build an accessible area for a cabinet or something to store your brooms, etc which don't require us to climb over! But must remember cannot block the access to the a/c compressors otherwise sure kana complain if discovered by nosy neighbors! :p
Doesn't it looks funny?:eek:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/4738931/for-sale-the-luma
first photo is a baywindow, need to be creative and do some baywindow dressing. :D
Everything is tiny :(
swimming pool at most can take 2 adults swimming lap
children's playground only 2 items for 3-4 kids playing
1 barbecue pit
distance between the blocks are very closeBut the unit is nice and spacious enough for a bachelor or young couple :)
Small project = small pool + bbq pit
Big project = big pool + bbq pits
Hahaha! I've discussed this on the forum already. Can get contractor to build an accessible area for a cabinet or something to store your brooms, etc which don't require us to climb over! But must remember cannot block the access to the a/c compressors otherwise sure kana complain if discovered by nosy neighbors! :p
Haha, good idea.:cool:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/4738931/for-sale-the-luma
first photo is a baywindow, need to be creative and do some baywindow dressing. :D
Hmm, so that's a baywindow. Not too bad er. I thought is a piece of concrete protruding from the window without any support from below, just like a horizontal "T". Actually can treat it like a bench, so if there is any function at home, can save alot of chairs. Also can put a dinning table there, and if there is good view outside, have your meal while enjoying the view, cheers. :D
Hmm, so that's a baywindow. Not too bad er. I thought is a piece of concrete protruding from the window without any support from below, just like a horizontal "T". Actually can treat it like a bench, so if there is any function at home, can save alot of chairs. Also can put a dinning table there, and if there is good view outside, have your meal while enjoying the view, cheers. :DYes but the only consideration is there's very little leg room. Just have a table that's overhanging so have larger table plus a little leg space beneath!:spliff:
saw one showflat made a glass top extension & use it as a study desk, quite nice.
saw one showflat made a glass top extension & use it as a study desk, quite nice.Good idea for my next reno. :o
Hi all, I got a shock when I saw the integrated washer cum dryer in the Luma's link above. It is really fixed to the cabinet and screwed on the washer. Ok, I lives in the mountain and never saw such thing before. So what if the owner wants to change the washer and dryer? Wat would happened to the cabinet?? Have to change the whole cabinet??
Hi all, I got a shock when I saw the integrated washer cum dryer in the Luma's link above. It is really fixed to the cabinet and screwed on the washer. Ok, I lives in the mountain and never saw such thing before. So what if the owner wants to change the washer and dryer? Wat would happened to the cabinet?? Have to change the whole cabinet??
Find another washer dryer of the same size and replace within original cabinet.... same for built-in fridge. Becoming more common these built-in appliances can be concealed within cabinets, better use of space, especially for MMs:)
Everything is tiny :(
swimming pool at most can take 2 adults swimming lap
children's playground only 2 items for 3-4 kids playing
1 barbecue pit
distance between the blocks are very closeBut the unit is nice and spacious enough for a bachelor or young couple :)
Cool 2M..
What how much is the rental for these units?
I would rather rent Services appartment.. its much nicer.. bigger pool.. rooms are nice.. and get cleaning service and everything included.. and pool is much much big...:cool:
http://www.fareasthospitality.com/sr/orchardparksuites/index.aspx?page=sr-orchardparksuites-rates
Never tried but think can get company to negatiate for you.. think can get 20-30% discount for you...
Find another washer dryer of the same size and replace within original cabinet.... same for built-in fridge. Becoming more common these built-in appliances can be concealed within cabinets, better use of space, especially for MMs:)
Thanks for replying, but the washer is screwed onto the cabinet. When owner replace the washer, he need to screw the new washer to the cabinet?? From the picture, seems like once unscrewed, the cabinet door will give way already.. unless screw on to the new washer. Sorry for such stupid question, but this is reali something new to me.
devilplate
30-06-11, 22:03
Thanks for replying, but the washer is screwed onto the cabinet. When owner replace the washer, he need to screw the new washer to the cabinet?? From the picture, seems like once unscrewed, the cabinet door will give way already.. unless screw on to the new washer. Sorry for such stupid question, but this is reali something new to me.
Integrated fridge quite common but integrated washing mc first time to me too
Is mm unit kitchen always in a open concept design, ie when you open the main door, the kitchen can be seen straight away, there is no wall/glass door to block it.
Thanks for replying, but the washer is screwed onto the cabinet. When owner replace the washer, he need to screw the new washer to the cabinet?? From the picture, seems like once unscrewed, the cabinet door will give way already.. unless screw on to the new washer. Sorry for such stupid question, but this is reali something new to me.
Quite a number of brands have it in their line up but i don't know whether door will rattle during high speed spinning :beats-me-man:. Usually the delivery team will help u screw it, the cabinet door i mean.:D
http://www.elux.ee/eng/c195633/built-in-washers
propertyguru
01-07-11, 02:04
Is mm unit kitchen always in a open concept design, ie when you open the main door, the kitchen can be seen straight away, there is no wall/glass door to block it.
Not just MM units. Some units in new developments like Vista also have the same layout, which put me off when I was searching for a place. My understanding is that this saves space, but I generally prefer a layout where the door opens into the living room rather than the kitchen.
kingkong1984
01-07-11, 06:09
Not just MM units. Some units in new developments like Vista also have the same layout, which put me off when I was searching for a place. My understanding is that this saves space, but I generally prefer a layout where the door opens into the living room rather than the kitchen.
No good no good....
Quite a number of brands have it in their line up but i don't know whether door will rattle during high speed spinning :beats-me-man:. Usually the delivery team will help u screw it, the cabinet door i mean.:D
http://www.elux.ee/eng/c195633/built-in-washers
That is Bad... Hmmmm I m thinking should this be a consideration when getting a condo unit. After a few "screw in screw out" the cabinet will spoil liao.
Not just MM units. Some units in new developments like Vista also have the same layout, which put me off when I was searching for a place. My understanding is that this saves space, but I generally prefer a layout where the door opens into the living room rather than the kitchen.
because the kitchen is now so visible, it is therefore important that all the appliances are well integrated. hence concealed fridges and washer dryers....
screw or no screw:D
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