View Full Version : Will singapoe propert mkt EVER crash...
your guess as good as mine....:cool:
what do you mean by crash?
If crash means price correction of >20%, then highly unlikely. Price correction will probably be <10% at the very worse! Currently still no correction so who knows, maybe no correction at all. :p Things might be clearer in the next couple of weeks!
buttercarp
30-07-11, 10:06
As long as there is a demand and the supply is low, there will not be a crash, especially for FH landed. For 99LH, I can't say the same. The big developers just hold back on their launches and relaunch again later. There will be subsales from people who cannot tahan and let go. But I think most Singaporeans are a prudent lot and will invest within their means,especially with the Govt's recent implementation of the graded SSD. So even if there a recession, this group of people will still be able to hold onto their property.
If no big crisis, it might go up for much longer... Look at Aussie market.... How long has the property there been going up?
As long as there is a demand and the supply is low, there will not be a crash, especially for FH landed. For 99LH, I can't say the same. The big developers just hold back on their launches and relaunch again later. There will be subsales from people who cannot tahan and let go. But I think most Singaporeans are a prudent lot and will invest within their means,especially with the Govt's recent implementation of the graded SSD. So even if there a recession, this group of people will still be able to hold onto their property.
I beg to differ.
I don't think Singaporeans are a prudent lot, otherwise the CMs are unnecessary. Most are afraid to lose out, Kiasu mentality. They beg, borrow and steal to the hilt just to put a foot in the property boat, pushing prices up and up.
Paying >$1000psf in OCR to me is ridiculous but it seems to have become the norm.
As long as there is a demand and the supply is low, there will not be a crash, especially for FH landed. For 99LH, I can't say the same. The big developers just hold back on their launches and relaunch again later. There will be subsales from people who cannot tahan and let go. But I think most Singaporeans are a prudent lot and will invest within their means,especially with the Govt's recent implementation of the graded SSD. So even if there a recession, this group of people will still be able to hold onto their property.
Not prudent at all le. Known of few paid only 10% downpayment for 90% loan in earlier days for a 700k condo. I say looking at their position and income, kinda over-stretch.
If you believe economy, including property goes in a cycle then u should know the answer. If u already purchased prudently then dont worry too much. Nobody can give you a definite answer. Otherwise all "huat" liao.
What is the generally accepted loan to income ratio to be considered "prudent" ?
:beats-me-man:
Akira Fudou
30-07-11, 11:16
Unless theres another major economic crisis, i cant see any major price correction... slowing the price increase is good enough
what do you mean by crash?
d17/18 3bedroom 1200sqft 600k
bayshore 2 bedroom 900sqft 600k
...THINK early 2009 u know what i mean...:D
Wonder how many of u based your buying or selling decision on what you read on the forum? Do your homework and check your financial....up or down, u and only u is accountable.....good luck...:D
Allthepies
30-07-11, 12:50
Crash will come when paper money rise in value..... Means tat us start burning tons and tons of money :D
What is the generally accepted loan to income ratio to be considered "prudent" ?
:beats-me-man:
What's prudent, is you have atleast 1 year of buffer to pay your mortgage and expenses in case of Layoff/underEmployment..
Some of them people have 10K job, with 1M mortgage.... but if the economy slows down, they might be laid off or find themselves underemployed with 5K job.. what about those people? Do they have enough buffer?
I believe what would determine if property would crash or not..
Sometime its pays to be on the side of caution..:2cents:
BTW singapore unemployment is rising..
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1143753/1/.html
Looking like we are back to 2008 EOY :-((( :scared-3:
start of another downturn...:scared-3:
Hopefully US and EU will do something better..else many like me will be having a pink slip in couple of months time...
kingkong1984
30-07-11, 13:34
Whether the market price of ur unit will crash or not is like a lady waiting to get married. Young and many suitors will push up the price. When they are no takers, price will then be reduced.
As to extrapolate it to the market, u must see how many unmatched ladies waiting to get hitched. Wahahaha... Beware the prostitutes or fake ladies. :doh:
Whether the market price of ur unit will crash or not is like a lady waiting to get married. Young and many suitors will push up the price. When they are no takers, price will then be reduced.
As to extrapolate it to the market, u must see how many unmatched ladies waiting to get hitched. Wahahaha... Beware the prostitutes or fake ladies. :doh:
The lady may be happy to remain single then marry to a dirty old man:D
Paying >$1000psf in OCR to me is ridiculous but it seems to have become the norm.
I agree. :D :D :D
To TS, u must be very young.... For any one who had seen 1997, he will not have asked this question.
Btw back then OCR were doing abt 1k psf too. :cool:
OCR just cross 1000psf then. now they're setting 1200-1300psf.
anyway, eventually, the property market will correct, but nobody will know precisely when and by how much.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7LIxOQjfSjg/TjDpHCpIvUI/AAAAAAAAGSQ/ryTnF4FlFzc/s800/HDB.JPG
Developers are trying to off-load their units now. Tomorrow is the start of 7th month.:scared-1:
I agree. :D :D :D
To TS, u must be very young.... For any one who had seen 1997, he will not have asked this question.
Btw back then OCR were doing abt 1k psf too. :cool:
hmm excuse i am in mid 40's was around in 1997 i know what happened but back then my collegues were all SINGAPOREANS...now the whole landscape of this country has changed WE are surrounded by FOREIGNERS who are well to do and eager to gain a foothold in this country at ANY cost....:) ...yup and back then chicken rice cost $2...now its $3.5 or $4...:doh: ...:scared-1:
Buy properties and hold long-term for rental to have good passive income for retirement.
Depend on where u are, if u are in CONUS Tucson and buy at the peak then you are in trouble.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UudYNsOLXqg/ThlsVTjfbEI/AAAAAAAAGOo/7xRNsgN9Pek/s800/85737.JPG
Depend on where u are, if u are in CONUS Tucson and buy at the peak then you are in trouble.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UudYNsOLXqg/ThlsVTjfbEI/AAAAAAAAGOo/7xRNsgN9Pek/s800/85737.JPG
Dont mind show an "understandable chart" I got migraine looking at it:D
The chart show selling price of houses in USA, zip code 85737.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1148-W-Lone-Star-Mine-Pl-Tucson-AZ-85737/8618493_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
The chart show selling price of houses in USA, zip code 85737.
But for sgp, the peak is not at 2007/8 leh....
How many yrs difference bet US then follow by sgp?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AwFPwevUvFg/TjPVIippHfI/AAAAAAAAGUc/xRnQURacEzM/s800/SG%252520property%252520price%252520index.JPG
http://www.h88.com.sg/property_stats/property_price_index.php
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UudYNsOLXqg/ThlsVTjfbEI/AAAAAAAAGOo/7xRNsgN9Pek/s800/85737.JPG
actually the reason why i asked this question is because recently a lot of my neighbours have been selling their units and these are people who swore that they will never sell can retire here...:(
a lot have them have made good gains some even 100%...but the sad part is most have NO direction and dont know what they going to do...most say they will rent/buy hdb apts...so hdb price go up:(
most believe mkt going to crash so all jumping ship but i believe that all these people sell they will wait on sidelines with a lot of money so any dip in property mkt they will start to go in and prices will move up again...:)
so i guess for the moment while waiting for crash only thing to do is talk kok sing song in forum...:D
actually the reason why i asked this question is because recently a lot of my neighbours have been selling their units and these are people who swore that they will never sell can retire here...:(
a lot have them have made good gains some even 100%...but the sad part is most have NO direction and dont know what they going to do...most say they will rent/buy hdb apts...so hdb price go up:(
most believe mkt going to crash so all jumping ship but i believe that all these people sell they will wait on sidelines with a lot of money so any dip in property mkt they will start to go in and prices will move up again...:)
so i guess for the moment while waiting for crash only thing to do is talk kok sing song in forum...:D
1. What is Money?
2. What are the factor which will cause the PR to go back?
3. Is there cheaper way to Build Singapore?
4. Where is Singapore heading towards?
5. What can you do with the money after selling?
Look at the rebound after the lethman brothers crisis. It is different from 1997 with the economy giants in Asia unless US defaults next week.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AwFPwevUvFg/TjPVIippHfI/AAAAAAAAGUc/xRnQURacEzM/s800/SG%252520property%252520price%252520index.JPG
http://www.h88.com.sg/property_stats/property_price_index.php
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UudYNsOLXqg/ThlsVTjfbEI/AAAAAAAAGOo/7xRNsgN9Pek/s800/85737.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VZxm0aTFz2Q/TjPZcsX6cYI/AAAAAAAAGUo/p6xgOFjx9x8/s800/SG%252520property%252520price%252520index%2525201996.JPG
....most believe mkt going to crash so all jumping ship but i believe that all these people sell they will wait on sidelines with a lot of money so any dip in property mkt they will start to go in and prices will move up again...:)
so i guess for the moment while waiting for crash only thing to do is talk kok sing song in forum...:D....ya.be careful....there are many around..Not only in this forum...but others..:2cents:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13852298
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjnn6a_singapore_travel#from=embed
....ya.be careful....there are many around..Not only in this forum...but others..:2cents:
When many sell, it time to buy and when many buy it time to sell.
Prices of property grew from 1986 to 1996 before the big drop.
So prices grew from 2005 to maybe 2015 before another big drop? The 2009 recession did not cause much of a dip in property prices.
:beats-me-man:
If u track the baseline of the price index chart, u can see how big the bubble was in 97. We are in a smaller bubble now and i think the baseline price now is the same as 2007 levels.
When many sell, it time to buy and when many buy it time to sell.
Many sellers happens only if got many buyers.
Many buyers happens only if got many sellers.
Many sellers but no buyers then is time to buy.
Many buyers but less units for sale than time to sell.
Where are we now?:D
What are the infrastructure in Singapore @ 1997 and 2007. The different is the new baseline.
Many sellers happens only if got many buyers.
Many buyers happens only if got many sellers.
Many sellers but no buyers then is time to buy.
Many buyers but less units for sale than time to sell.
Where are we now?:D
Surely we are not in "many sellers but no buyers" situation yet...:2cents:
Surely we are not in "many sellers but no buyers" situation yet...:2cents:
Before you sell try buying first.
Before you buy try selling first.
If you have more than one property.
Prices of property grew from 1986 to 1996 before the big drop.
So prices grew from 2005 to maybe 2015 before another big drop? The 2009 recession did not cause much of a dip in property prices.
:beats-me-man:
If u track the baseline of the price index chart, u can see how big the bubble was in 97. We are in a smaller bubble now and i think the baseline price now is the same as 2007 levels.
There might not be another big drop but a slow grow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0TSNy3Yk50&feature=share
the fact that many of us are anticipating a crash means that the crash is not likely, expectations are already moderated. We are looking at worst a correction.
The last crash due to asian currency crisis, no one saw it coming.... hence the sharp correction.
hmm excuse i am in mid 40's was around in 1997 i know what happened but back then my collegues were all SINGAPOREANS...now the whole landscape of this country has changed WE are surrounded by FOREIGNERS who are well to do and eager to gain a foothold in this country at ANY cost....:) ...yup and back then chicken rice cost $2...now its $3.5 or $4...:doh: ...:scared-1:
No leh, still have $2 chicken rice. I just bought it today.:D
No leh, still have $2 chicken rice. I just bought it today.:D
Yes, those older neighbourhood stalls do still sell $2 chicken rice, fishball noodles, wonton mee and mee siam.
Except the portions are much smaller. :p
When many sell, it time to buy and when many buy it time to sell.
It is easy to say. When it is time to buy but money not enough but when you have saved enough money, prices start to go up. Sighhhhh....:doh:
As I always mentioned, always be caught in a position with one property ready to sell and some cash ready to buy. If good times, sell and wait. If bad times, buy and wait! :D Easier said than done. Now with SSD :banghead:.
the fact that many of us are anticipating a crash means that the crash is not likely, expectations are already moderated. We are looking at worst a correction.
The last crash due to asian currency crisis, no one saw it coming.... hence the sharp correction.
Who was prediction US to go back into recession till few weeks ago?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-30/economy-in-u-s-vulnerable-to-relapse-with-gdp-short-of-pre-recession-peak.html
Nobody has predicted..and noone is hoping for this to happen..
But if this happens then property crash is very likely and most of people will be sitting on sidelines again...
US recession this time will be prolonged and harsh..cause one thing is for sure printing $ couldn't make US come out of recession, and thats the only thing FED knows :doh:
Yes, those older neighbourhood stalls do still sell $2 chicken rice, fishball noodles, wonton mee and mee siam.
Except the portions are much smaller. :p
No leh, alot of rice but maybe chicken slightly lesser. You know what, few months back, this stall only charged $1.80 for a plate of chicken rice, believe it or not? I couldn't believe it also but it is true, the stall (coffee shop) is at Rochor Centre, next to the Post Office, when free, go and patronise loh! $2 for a plate of chicken rice.:cool:
Who was prediction US to go back into recession till few weeks ago?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-30/economy-in-u-s-vulnerable-to-relapse-with-gdp-short-of-pre-recession-peak.html
Nobody has predicted..and noone is hoping for this to happen..
But if this happens then property crash is very likely and most of people will be sitting on sidelines again...
US recession this time will be prolonged and harsh..cause one thing is for sure printing $ couldn't make US come out of recession, and thats the only thing FED knows :doh:The Republicans look stubbornly insistent to put Obama down. Whether default or not, the ride ahead is always going to be bumpy! :scared-3:
No leh, still have $2 chicken rice. I just bought it today.:D
how many piece of chicken u get...:D
i think only concern now is the large number of properties that are going to flood the market in coming few years...lets see how this affects the mkt...:) ...but like i said earlier there is lot of liquidity on the sidelines....a lot of people are waiting to go in...crash....i doubt it...soften...possible.....:)
No leh, still have $2 chicken rice. I just bought it today.:D
Is the same principle, nobody eat (location bad, less tasty, rent cheap, etc) there's why $2.
If everybody rush to eat u think still charge $2 - cant even cover rental?
So eat more chicken rice b4 price goes up :D
kingkong1984
31-07-11, 02:28
Is the same principle, nobody eat (location bad, less tasty, rent cheap, etc) there's why $2.
If everybody rush to eat u think still charge $2 - cant even cover rental?
So eat more chicken rice b4 price goes up :D
Ahhh... The lady waiting to get married example...
Those people in sidelines getting it wrong. If US tanks, even more investors will sell the west and buy up the east.
Just look at the SGD, we are Swiss franc of the East.
Now is the bull run of the East just like West 20 years ago.
KBW already say his stabilization effort will take 3-5 years and high prices wise.... nothing much can be done.
Are you seeing foreigners running away despite the Opposition winning 1x GRC?
No! There are even more of them! Why? Because, West perceive East as higher growth even if global recession. And where else is a better place to park your money?
Unless SGD faces an attack just like Thai baht during the Asian currency crisis..... However possibility is remote because Singapore has too many foreign stakeholders parking money here and diplomatic relations are still strong.
If people are asking for a crisis, that will be discontent within Singaporeans and votes for next General Election tilts to opposition. That is when property prices might drop.
We are relatively safe for the next 4 years.
Those people in sidelines getting it wrong. If US tanks, even more investors will sell the west and buy up the east.
Just look at the SGD, we are Swiss franc of the East.
Now is the bull run of the East just like West 20 years ago.
KBW already say his stabilization effort will take 3-5 years and high prices wise.... nothing much can be done.
Are you seeing foreigners running away despite the Opposition winning 1x GRC?
No! There are even more of them! Why? Because, West perceive East as higher growth even if global recession. And where else is a better place to park your money?
Unless SGD faces an attack just like Thai baht during the Asian currency crisis..... However possibility is remote because Singapore has too many foreign stakeholders parking money here and diplomatic relations are still strong.
If people are asking for a crisis, that will be discontent within Singaporeans and votes for next General Election tilts to opposition. That is when property prices might drop.
We are relatively safe for the next 4 years.Foreigners don't care if opp win 1 GRC or 2. No change in govt so it's still stable. SGD is strong because of strong govt so investors are flocking to Singapore. But S'pore is just too dependent on foreign markets so must be super careful too. Anything happening to US, Europe or even China will have implications in our lands. :scared-4:
Wish all those waiting to catch the crash this time manage to fish at good one.
A friend of mine monitored closely for price drop, in 2009 there was a dip.
He actually can get 3 bedder for Kovan Residence at 900+ k but felt it was still expensive. Waited some more for price to drop further....the rest is history. Now 2 bedder is already asking more than a mil at K R.
He is waiting for the crash again. Hopefully this time round drop back to 900+K or even lower to compensate for waiting 2 more years :mad:
There will be oversupply of pte properties from 2012 (getting more obvious now). As long as interest rates don't rise significantly in a short time, we will only have quantity bubble. The HDB resale prices will provide good price support for the next 2-3 years i.e. 2012-2014 (as mentioned by the Minister on resale housing).
Developers and property agents will then go overseas to market their unsold units. In my view, Singapore pte properties although unaffordable to many locals, are still reasonably priced to the foreigners. This is from the perspective of valuing a city's opportunities in the midst of economic expansion in Asia and turmoils in US and Europe.
I am sure lots of people were like your friend. They really miss big time becos it would have gone up by $150psf compared to 2009 prices and the leveraging of the bank at low interest rate coupled with attractive SOR/SIBOR packages then. It would have been ready in 3months time and can earn reasonable rental income. Even with 20% drop correction in 2-3 years time is still alright. Imagine for someone to buy in 2014 with the oversupply and correction of 20% and at lower rental and higher interest. It will certainly be worst off. :scared-3:
Wish all those waiting to catch the crash this time manage to fish at good one.
A friend of mine monitored closely for price drop, in 2009 there was a dip.
He actually can get 3 bedder for Kovan Residence at 900+ k but felt it was still expensive. Waited some more for price to drop further....the rest is history. Now 2 bedder is already asking more than a mil at K R.
He is waiting for the crash again. Hopefully this time round drop back to 900+K or even lower to compensate for waiting 2 more years :mad:
I am sure lots of people were like your friend. They really miss big time becos it would have gone up by $150psf compared to 2009 prices and the leveraging of the bank at low interest rate coupled with attractive SOR/SIBOR packages then. It would have been ready in 3months time and can earn reasonable rental income. Even with 20% drop correction in 2-3 years time is still alright. Imagine for someone to buy in 2014 with the oversupply and correction of 20% and at lower rental and higher interest. It will certainly be worst off. :scared-3:A price correction of 20% in 2 years' time is definitely a good bargain for buyers if their tenure is short under the higher interest rate! :D
I am sure lots of people were like your friend. They really miss big time becos it would have gone up by $150psf compared to 2009 prices and the leveraging of the bank at low interest rate coupled with attractive SOR/SIBOR packages then. It would have been ready in 3months time and can earn reasonable rental income. Even with 20% drop correction in 2-3 years time is still alright. Imagine for someone to buy in 2014 with the oversupply and correction of 20% and at lower rental and higher interest. It will certainly be worst off. :scared-3:
I think you got a typo right?
It should be if someone buy in 2011 and then kenna the oversupply hit in 2014. If he buy in 2014 when the oversupply hit, it should be ok as the price will already dropped in 2014 right?
There is no typo. :)
If one is buying for rental in 2014, the oversupply will lead to drop in rental and banks do not want to expose too much will not offer so attractive loan package. It will be double whamy for buyers if interest moves up then.
I think you got a typo right? Not so bad for upgraders will have to sell their HDB/condos at a lower price. The people who have sold their flats/condos last few years will gain most as they have made a profit and out to shop then.
It should be if someone buy in 2011 and then kenna the oversupply hit in 2014. If he buy in 2014 when the oversupply hit, it should be ok as the price will already dropped in 2014 right?
kingkong1984
31-07-11, 11:42
I think you got a typo right?
It should be if someone buy in 2011 and then kenna the oversupply hit in 2014. If he buy in 2014 when the oversupply hit, it should be ok as the price will already dropped in 2014 right?
2011 should be alright because can still liquidate with little SSD... Buy for self stay no worries actually.
i still see crazy owners asking for the sky these days...
really shake head when they say the pricing will keep going up....
i still see crazy owners asking for the sky these days...
really shake head when they say the pricing will keep going up....
it's all interconnected. the next place they are eyeing carries a crazy price tag. you're in a good shape since you have a brand new pad at the clover. if you have to move to a big place immediately, you'll be asking a crazy price as well.
Exactly right.... So unless there is a crisis to,jolt people confidence, I think at worst property prices will just stagnate but will not go down much... But if there are good news then will go up again after a pause
kingkong1984
31-07-11, 22:14
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5105396
By Channel NewsAsia, Updated: 31/07/2011
DPM Teo warns of uncertainties ahead
DPM Teo warns of uncertainties ahead
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5105396
By Channel NewsAsia, Updated: 31/07/2011
DPM Teo warns of uncertainties ahead
DPM Teo warns of uncertainties ahead
This is not new isn't it. We have been facing uncertainties for years now already!
kingkong1984
31-07-11, 23:10
This is not new isn't it. We have been facing uncertainties for years now already!
This time is different... really very likely in the next 3 to 6 months..
all waiting for the next shock of the year.....
for a start. it will be a very quiet month.............:scared-4:
all waiting for the next shock of the year.....
for a start. it will be a very quiet month.............:scared-4:
Pardon me for my ignorance. What shock are we possibly expecting?:doh:
Wish all those waiting to catch the crash this time manage to fish at good one.
A friend of mine monitored closely for price drop, in 2009 there was a dip.
He actually can get 3 bedder for Kovan Residence at 900+ k but felt it was still expensive. Waited some more for price to drop further....the rest is history. Now 2 bedder is already asking more than a mil at K R.
He is waiting for the crash again. Hopefully this time round drop back to 900+K or even lower to compensate for waiting 2 more years :mad:
Kovan Residences 2 bedder already $1.23m for high floor (1,394psf). people seem to think that a crash is good. They can go out and buy the property they want at cheap price. But, a few things happen in a crash.
1. Your job is at stake unless you are a civil servant. Will you dare to buy?
2. Your own property price will drop. Are you willing to sell your own ppty at a very low price to get another at an equally low price?
3. Banks will be very careful in giving loans. They may not give you a loan unless you can show that your own property has been sold or loan has been paid up.
4. Your own greed may prevent you from buying because you don't think it is the bottom yet.
5. It will be very difficult to choose your dream home as every unit you see, you think the next one will be better and cheaper. By the time you decide, either it is gone or economy recovered already.
all waiting for the next shock of the year.....
for a start. it will be a very quiet month.............:scared-4:
You are right "The Gates of Hell are sprung open to allow ghosts and spirits access to the world of the living. The spirits spend the month visiting their families, feasting and and looking for victims."(中元節 / 中元节):hell-hath-no-fury:
Kovan Residences 2 bedder already $1.23m for high floor (1,394psf). people seem to think that a crash is good. They can go out and buy the property they want at cheap price. But, a few things happen in a crash.
1. Your job is at stake unless you are a civil servant. Will you dare to buy?
2. Your own property price will drop. Are you willing to sell your own ppty at a very low price to get another at an equally low price?
3. Banks will be very careful in giving loans. They may not give you a loan unless you can show that your own property has been sold or loan has been paid up.
4. Your own greed may prevent you from buying because you don't think it is the bottom yet.
5. It will be very difficult to choose your dream home as every unit you see, you think the next one will be better and cheaper. By the time you decide, either it is gone or economy recovered already.My sense is home prices will never return to 2009's scenario again. It has since climbed some 20% or more. Any economic crisis now may just do a price correction of 10%? I certainly hope I'm wrong so one and all can huat but I really doubt it! :cheers6:
http://www.lvrj.com/business/singapore-success-on-wynn-s-radar-126476213.html
Royal Bank of Scotland gaming analyst Phillip Tulk told MarketWatch.com recently that Singapore gaming revenues would increase by 25 percent this year, to $6.4 billion. Last year, Strip gaming revenues were $5.8 billion.
Kovan Residences 2 bedder already $1.23m for high floor (1,394psf). people seem to think that a crash is good. They can go out and buy the property they want at cheap price. But, a few things happen in a crash.
1. Your job is at stake unless you are a civil servant. Will you dare to buy?
2. Your own property price will drop. Are you willing to sell your own ppty at a very low price to get another at an equally low price?
3. Banks will be very careful in giving loans. They may not give you a loan unless you can show that your own property has been sold or loan has been paid up.
4. Your own greed may prevent you from buying because you don't think it is the bottom yet.
5. It will be very difficult to choose your dream home as every unit you see, you think the next one will be better and cheaper. By the time you decide,
either it is gone or economy recovered already.
Agree w you totally.... Those that are looking for a bargain would have bought in the last downturn if they are really astute... If another downturn comes they will makemthe same choice again.... As their buying behavior is such and will be difficult to change a person buying style...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43964181
Top Senate Democrat tentatively endorses debt pact
Published: Sunday, 31 Jul 2011 | 5:22 PM ET
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama's top ally in the Senate has signed on to a long-delayed agreement to raise the government's borrowing cap and cut spending — subject to approval by his fellow Senate Democrats.
A spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid says the Nevada Democrat supports the measure. He's the first top congressional leader to announce support.
Republican Senate leaders said Sunday they were close to a deal.
The tentative agreement would guarantee enough borrowing authority to keep the government afloat into 2013.
The measure would provide an immediate hike in the debt limit, accompanied by the promise of trillions of dollars in future spending cuts.
Cuts in spending would be phased in over a decade. Social Security and Medicare benefits wouldn't be cut, and taxes would be unlikely to rise.
Debt limit will b raised afterall. Keeping afloat to 2013 mean more money printing until 2013. Will other countries also have to print more money to keep up w cheap currencies to support their export? There r v few instruments for e common man to hedge against the currency devaluation. I suspect even though most pp r shouting high property prices, they v much want to grab a unit to protect their money.
Debt limit will b raised afterall. Keeping afloat to 2013 mean more money printing until 2013. Will other countries also have to print more money to keep up w cheap currencies to support their export? There r v few instruments for e common man to hedge against the currency devaluation. I suspect even though most pp r shouting high property prices, they v much want to grab a unit to protect their money.Easy way to look at it, if the world's currencies are devaluing, then it is still safe in this respect when everybody is suffering together so no worries there. Its still square one after all. In such a scenario, invest in whichever country that has the most stable or strongest currency.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/1144257/1/.html
Obama announces agreement to avoid debt default
Posted: 01 August 2011 0859 hrs
WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama announced late Sunday that he and top lawmakers had reached an 11th-hour deal to avert a disastrous debt default that would have sown chaos in the world economy.
"I want to announce that the leaders of both parties in both chambers have reached an agreement that will reduce the deficit and avoid default, a default that would have had a devastating effect on our economy," Obama said in hastily announced remarks at the White House.
In the US Congress, leaders of the Democratic-held Senate and the Republican-led House of Representatives said they would present the framework to their rank-and-file on Monday ahead of final votes to approve the deal.
"We're not done yet: I want to urge members of both parties to do the right thing and support this deal with your votes over the next few days," Obama said, with time running short before a midnight Tuesday (0400 GMT Wednesday) deadline.
The US government hit its debt limit on May 16 and has used spending and accounting adjustments, as well as higher-than-expected tax receipts, to continue operating normally -- but can only do so through August 2.
Business and finance leaders have warned default would send crippling aftershocks through the fragile US economy, still wrestling with stubbornly high unemployment of 9.2 per cent in the wake of the 2008 global meltdown.
Without a deal, the US government would have to cut an estimated 40 cents out of every dollar it spends, forcing grim choices between defaulting or cutting back programs like those that help the poor, disabled and elderly.
- AFP/fa
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/1144255/1/.html
HSBC sells 195 US branches for US$1b
Posted: 01 August 2011 0845 hrs
NEW YORK: British-based banking giant HSBC announced on Sunday it would sell 195 retail branches, primarily in upstate New York, to First Niagara Bank for an estimated $1 billion.
"As part of its ongoing US strategic focus on commercial and corporate banking, HSBC Bank USA remains committed to serving and further developing corporate banking relationships in Upstate New York," the company said in a statement.
"HSBC Bank USA is pleased to be working with First Niagara on this transaction, given its strong commitment to relationship banking and its historic roots in the region."
As of May 31, the branches held approximately $15 billion in deposits.
In addition to the sale of the retail branches to First Niagara, HSBC Bank USA has decided to consolidate some 13 branches located in Connecticut and New Jersey into nearby HSBC branches by the first quarter of 2012, subject to regulatory approval.
Reports say the global banking giant is preparing to ax between 10,000 and 15,000 jobs in the coming year as part of a drastic cost-cutting drive.
The bank, headquartered in London but with a major focus on Asia, was set to unveil the job cuts on Monday as it posts its half-year results, Britain's Sky News television reported, without citing its sources.
- AFP/fa
Not prudent at all le. Known of few paid only 10% downpayment for 90% loan in earlier days for a 700k condo. I say looking at their position and income, kinda over-stretch.
ya lah, remember the 2 recent case regarding couple cannot pay up for DBSS? If they are prudent then they will not DARE to apply for the flat with their basic income :tongue3: :doh:
Wish all those waiting to catch the crash this time manage to fish at good one.
A friend of mine monitored closely for price drop, in 2009 there was a dip.
He actually can get 3 bedder for Kovan Residence at 900+ k but felt it was still expensive. Waited some more for price to drop further....the rest is history. Now 2 bedder is already asking more than a mil at K R.
He is waiting for the crash again. Hopefully this time round drop back to 900+K or even lower to compensate for waiting 2 more years :mad:
I have so many around me in the same situation :doh: keep telling me they are waiting for the ppty to crash so they can buy at the price of 600-700 psf for FH
I have so many around me in the same situation :doh: keep telling me they are waiting for the ppty to crash so they can buy at the price of 600-700 psf for FH If it drop to 600-700 psf for FH, many with bullet$ will plunge to grab..., then this group that u are referring will be still be waiting for it to drop further to 500-600psf, and they continue to wait and hope...for "durian" to drop ...:doh:
If it drop to 600-700 psf for FH, many with bullet$ will plunge to grab..., then this group that u are referring will be still be waiting for it to drop further to 500-600psf, and they continue to wait and hope...for "durian" to drop ...:doh:
I think if really drop to 500-600psf will only show that sg is in deep recession, jobless rate 20% dbs, uob collaspe...etc. Most people will be worrying about their next meal than a 600psf condo...
How can a condo sell for 600psf when there are many people are waiting with cash at hand for that dream crash?
I think if really drop to 500-600psf will only show that sg is in deep recession, jobless rate 20% dbs, uob collaspe...etc. Most people will be worrying about their next meal than a 600psf condo...
How can a condo sell for 600psf when there are many people are waiting with cash at hand for that dream crash?True true.. before it reaches 600psf, it would have been scoped up at 800psf. Even a down of 100psf is attractive enough for some with bullets and know they cannot wait forever to enter the market. Well, lesson learnt from pass experiences dictates that one must be super observant and ready to enter once a smallest opportunity strikes...
Now that US avoid another default or should I say delay till 2013, such a drop will not come as quickly as most would have hoped for! Can continue to dream lorz! :sleep:
I think if really drop to 500-600psf will only show that sg is in deep recession, jobless rate 20% dbs, uob collaspe...etc. Most people will be worrying about their next meal than a 600psf condo...
How can a condo sell for 600psf when there are many people are waiting with cash at hand for that dream crash?
Where got cash at hand? If DBS, UOB collapse, you are only insured for up to $20K at each bank. All your savings will be wiped out.
Savvy buyers don't wait for crash. They look for gems and good buys, whether in good or bad times. They think and act out of the box.
I have so many around me in the same situation :doh: keep telling me they are waiting for the ppty to crash so they can buy at the price of 600-700 psf for FH
Breakeven cost for 99LH plots at ulu locations already exceeded the 600 - 700 psf. Ironically, thanks to the hot property sales and HDB BTOs recently, the construction industry will provide a cushion to the economy to prevent any crash in the next 2-3 years. My only worry is the interest rates.
Debt deal is just secured, money printers are free to operate for a few more years... http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/us-debt-deal-clinched-20110801-1i6ud.html
all waiting for the next shock of the year.....
for a start. it will be a very quiet month.............:scared-4:
7th month only ghost buying and selling house....:scared-1: :scared-1: :scared-1:
Breakeven cost for 99LH plots at ulu locations already exceeded the 600 - 700 psf. Ironically, thanks to the hot property sales and HDB BTOs recently, the construction industry will provide a cushion to the economy to prevent any crash in the next 2-3 years. My only worry is the interest rates.
Debt deal is just secured, money printers are free to operate for a few more years... http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/us-debt-deal-clinched-20110801-1i6ud.html
Soon sgd to usd will be 1:1 haa haa...:scared-3:
7th month only ghost buying and selling house....:scared-1: :scared-1: :scared-1:Good time to go and disturb the developers and offer ridiculously low amounts and see which developer will not want to see zero sales for the month and just say ok to one or two such exceptional cases! Hahaha! :D
Breakeven cost for 99LH plots at ulu locations already exceeded the 600 - 700 psf. Ironically, thanks to the hot property sales and HDB BTOs recently, the construction industry will provide a cushion to the economy to prevent any crash in the next 2-3 years. My only worry is the interest rates.
Debt deal is just secured, money printers are free to operate for a few more years... http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/us-debt-deal-clinched-20110801-1i6ud.html
Well said. My worry is another round of fiat money flooding into sgp and push the price thru the roof :D
1 or 2 bedder MM should still move quite well. Assuming a price of $750k for a 2 bedder MM, 80% loan and 2% interest, this works out as $2200 instalment per month including interest. This is well within the purchasing power of a young working couple (fresh grads) with combined income of $6000 per month. MM sales will remain healthy and growing in line with the annual salary increment (3-5%) over the next few years.
the question is not if, it's when.
about time to reflect back how did the market react during the last crash:D :D
the question is not if, it's when.
about time to reflect back how did the market react during the last crash:D :D
Yap! u r right. Only remember one friend "panic spider" :scared-3: sold at 300k lost in 97 crisis. The same developement another "gun ho":spliff2: friend waited & rented out 10 years b4 breakeven. Now his unit value is at a profit.
Bottomline, how u react depends whether you are a investor or stayer.
I also thot of waiting for the crash until my darling tell me u want me to wait till I got no strenght to jump into the pool then u buy is it:scared-4:
Yap! u r right. Only remember one friend "panic spider" :scared-3: sold at 300k lost in 97 crisis. The same developement another "gun ho":spliff2: friend waited & rented out 10 years b4 breakeven. Now his unit value is at a profit.
Bottomline, how u react depends whether you are a investor or stayer.
I also thot of waiting for the crash until my darling tell me u want me to wait till I got no strenght to jump into the pool then u buy is it:scared-4:Agreed. If you have every intention to stay, just buy once you find that dream unit. You can most definitely afford to wait till any price depreciation becomes appreciation. :cheers1:
Agreed. If you have every intention to stay, just buy once you find that dream unit. You can most definitely afford to wait till any price depreciation becomes appreciation. :cheers1:
All boils down to holding power. Not everybody can do that.
3mth SOR today is only 0.15?:p
I have so many around me in the same situation :doh: keep telling me they are waiting for the ppty to crash so they can buy at the price of 600-700 psf for FH
Lol... Fh 700psf, leashold will be 500+ psf.... Old leasehold 400 psf? resale will be 250psf? Bto 150 psf ah? possible?
Agreed. If you have every intention to stay, just buy once you find that dream unit. You can most definitely afford to wait till any price depreciation becomes appreciation. :cheers1:
err... but imagine you bought at 1996 or 1998... big difference right?
Don't you want to finish paying off your mortgage 10 years earlier??
err... but imagine you bought at 1996 or 1998... big difference right?
Don't you want to finish paying off your mortgage 10 years earlier??
Of course I do, provided you can guanrantee when is the drop & how much. If i guanrantee you in 10 yrs time the price will drop 50% will u want to wait? So it is all your own judgement call and circumstances. If u are not in a hurry, by all means wait:sleep:
Property guru survey shows that strong sentiment for private properties to move up from now till the end of the year. How will KHW response?
Agreed. If you have every intention to stay, just buy once you find that dream unit. You can most definitely afford to wait till any price depreciation becomes appreciation. :cheers1:
All boils down to holding power. Not everybody can do that.
The question isn't whether the buyer is buying to invest or to stay. The question is whether he bought something that he can afford to pay for in good times and bad times.
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.
Property guru survey shows that strong sentiment for private properties to move up from now till the end of the year. How will KHW response?
He will continue to say the same thing: [blah blah blah] and ends with "it depends on demand and supply".
Property investment favours the rich.
The question isn't whether the buyer is buying to invest or to stay. The question is whether he bought something that he can afford to pay for in good times and bad times.
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.
Property investment favours the rich.
Need $ to make $ :cool:
Or you could borrow other ppl's $
[quote=evergreen]
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.
[quote]
But what if you already bought high? Sell higher? How to if market crash.
To me "buy low sell high" is not the rule of investing but the objective of investing though not always achievable.
Make $ from shares and grows the base. The last 4 years was one of the best period for people to become richer.
Need $ to make $ :cool:
Or you could borrow other ppl's $
[quote=evergreen]The question isn't whether the buyer is buying to invest or to stay. The question is whether he bought something that he can afford to pay for in good times and bad times.
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.
;)
A stayer means that he need to stay eg. married couple who cannot afford to wait 5 years for the price to drop. He buy according to his affordability, if cannot afford 3 bedder then 2 bedder first. He buy for long term. Profit is less in his mind. Where to stay if he sell even if the price goes up.
Yes your rule is simple but only rich investor can follow. Buy 10 units when the property crash. Anyway he is already staying in a bungalow.:D
The question isn't whether the buyer is buying to invest or to stay. The question is whether he bought something that he can afford to pay for in good times and bad times.
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.Well, it must be agreed first of all that if one buys to stay, long term cash flow must be in his mind. If one buys to invest, there is probably a timeline after which he hopes for a return of his investment. Affordability will then be closely pecked to his purpose of purchase. Yes its about holding power which is often based on the purpose of that purchase. At least that is how most seasoned market players would base their strategy upon. :o
Make $ from shares and grows the base. The last 4 years was one of the best period for people to become richer.
Not the next 4 years?:banghead:
A stayer means that he need to stay eg. married couple who cannot afford to wait 5 years for the price to drop. He buy according to his affordability, if cannot afford 3 bedder then 2 bedder first. He buy for long term. Profit is less in his mind. Where to stay if he sell even if the price goes up.
Well, it must be agreed first of all that if one buys to stay, long term cash flow must be in his mind. If one buys to invest, there is probably a timeline after which he hopes for a return of his investment. Affordability will then be closely pecked to his purpose of purchase. Yes its about holding power which is often based on the purpose of that purchase. At least that is how most seasoned market players would base their strategy upon. :o
Whether he buy to stay or to invest, he must have the ability to pay for it in bad times (jobless, unable to rent out, etc), otherwise he might have to "sell low" regardless of whether there is a target timeline.
The advice that it's ok to buy if the purpose is to stay in it isn't correct. Just because a person needs a place to stay, doesn't mean he should buy. He has to look at the Net effect on his overall net worth, cash flow, well-being, etc.
Yes your rule is simple but only rich investor can follow. Buy 10 units when the property crash. Anyway he is already staying in a bungalow.:D
When property market crashed, many people did not buy. So what happened to buy low?
The rule applies for buying stocks as well. When people are panic-selling, buy! Don't need to be rich to invest.
Not the next 4 years?:banghead:
There are opportunities always but you'll have to find them ;)
E.g. singtel was trading at <$3 earlier this year. Now it's $3.40 and paying 19 cents dividend soon. Without counting dividends in, that's 13% rise in 6 months.
Buy low sell high is not a rule, it is an objective.
Big difference.
When property market crashed, many people did not buy. So what happened to buy low?
The rule applies for buying stocks as well. When people are panic-selling, buy! Don't need to be rich to invest.[/quote]
Thanks for the insightful financial talk. I have a friend who has only $20k as his life saving. Maybe I should ask him to buy stock & property to make $200K:D
[quote=evergreen]
They lose money because they cannot follow the simple rule of investing: buy low, sell high.
[quote]
But what if you already bought high? Sell higher? How to if market crash.
To me "buy low sell high" is not the rule of investing but the objective of investing though not always achievable.
High and low are relative, not absolute. So when you buy low, you have to decide the price that is low compared to X, X being a point in time, other properties/stocks available, the percieved value, etc.
It is in the comparison that people fail - because of imperfect knowledge, poor logic and foresight, no luck, or sheer laziness, etc.
Why would people pay more for a 99LH condo than a FH one? I suppose they have their own logic (or lack of).
High and low are relative, not absolute. So when you buy low, you have to decide the price that is low compared to X, X being a point in time, other properties/stocks available, the percieved value, etc.
It is in the comparison that people fail - because of imperfect knowledge, poor logic and foresight, no luck, or sheer laziness, etc.
Why would people pay more for a 99LH condo than a FH one? I suppose they have their own logic (or lack of).
From what you are saying, your "buy low sell high" rule not so simple as you say leh...
Whether he buy to stay or to invest, he must have the ability to pay for it in bad times (jobless, unable to rent out, etc), otherwise he might have to "sell low" regardless of whether there is a target timeline.
The advice that it's ok to buy if the purpose is to stay in it isn't correct. Just because a person needs a place to stay, doesn't mean he should buy. He has to look at the Net effect on his overall net worth, cash flow, well-being, etc. I've mentioned in my post that its about holding power (exactly what you wrote) based on the purpose of purchase (my additional point). :spliff:
I don't think there will a crash. At most we have stagnant prices end of next year onwards when the oversupply of pte properties hits us. Remember that COV and HDB prices are still rising and will continue to do so until it moderates in 2013. This is the cushion for any pte property decline.
Our Gini coefficient is going to increase further, driving up the aspiration for pte properties http://singaporedesk.blogspot.com/2011/02/relentless-march-of-gini-coefficient.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43977951
House Passes Debt-Ceiling Bill; Senate to Vote Tuesday
The House of Representatives Monday approved an 11th-hour deal to raise the U.S. borrowing limit, clearing the biggest hurdle to averting a potentially catastrophic U.S. debt default.
Just one day before the deadline to lift the debt ceiling , the House passed the bill, 269 to 161.
Wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords returned to Washington to vote "yes" on the bill.
The vote by the Republican-controlled House paved the way for an expected approval in the Senate of a $2.1 trillion deficit-cutting plan hammered out over the weekend. Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said the Senate vote was scheduled for noon ET on Tuesday.
The measure will need 60 votes to pass the 100-seat body, Reid said. If it passes, it will head to President Barack Obama to sign into law.
After a meeting of his fellow Senate Democrats, Reid said on Monday that the legislation got a mixed reception from his colleagues, with some showing enthusiasm and others not. When asked about the vote count, Reid said: "I'm not here to declare victory yet."
Vice President Joe Biden said he was confident that a debt-limit deal will pass.
White House senior adviser David Plouffe offered assurances Monday that he believes the newly minted deal* to raise the debt ceiling will pass both houses of Congress and be signed into law by President Barack Obama.
Plouffe also appeared to clash with House Speaker John Boehner, who said on Sunday that the deal included no tax hikes.
"That's just not true," he told NBC's Today show. "If we're going to do additional deficit-reduction in the fall, it should be tax reform, closing loopholes for the wealthy and big corporations."
While the deal comes just in time to avoid a catastrophic default, Washington and investors will be closely watching to see if it goes far enough to convince credit rating agencies to let the United States keep its top-level triple-A credit rating.
Standard & Poor's has been the toughest of the rating agencies with its warnings of possible downgrades if the United States failed to agree on a viable long-term deficit reduction program.
All eyes will be on the rating agency this week as it reviews the agreement and decides what to do.
Singapore property will crash by next year when global economy goes into depression due to the fall out of USD which drives the world into inflationary panic.
When USA money printing machine stops, interest rates will go up and what is perceived as affordable today will become expensive.
So buy within your means, make sure you diversify your portfolio.
Singapore property will crash by next year when global economy goes into depression due to the fall out of USD which drives the world into inflationary panic.
When USA money printing machine stops, interest rates will go up and what is perceived as affordable today will become expensive.
So buy within your means, make sure you diversify your portfolio.The noise about falling housing prices started from Jan this year after CM was introduced but prices have since soared much further. Now talks of interest rates sustaining for another 1 year or more has also been around. After the 2 Aug deadline met, how long more will this interest rate persist? Hmmm... Once interest rates climb, there'll probably be a sudden surge in supply of those units which owners cannot hold any further. Then its time to enter, provided you can tahan those interest rates! :o
buttercarp
02-08-11, 10:43
I have waited since 2009 until my neck has grown so long like a giraffe. Now I see things in a different perspective.
If you find a unit you like and have the means, go for it. Waiting may put it out of reach. When there is a demand, especially with the population increasing, the prices will always remain strong.
The noise about falling housing prices started from Jan this year after CM was introduced but prices have since soared much further. Now talks of interest rates sustaining for another 1 year or more has also been around. After the 2 Aug deadline met, how long more will this interest rate persist? Hmmm... Once interest rates climb, there'll probably be a sudden surge in supply of those units which owners cannot hold any further. Then its time to enter, provided you can tahan those interest rates! :o
Here is a little peek into the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIHtJ02rCw
Here is a little peek into the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIHtJ02rCwNice movie! :sleep:
When USA money printing machine stops
u think this will happen next year ? how do u come to that conclusion ?
USA rates will stay low, very low, for a long time. that's my reading.
I have waited since 2009 until my neck has grown so long like a giraffe. Now I see things in a different perspective.
If you find a unit you like and have the means, go for it. Waiting may put it out of reach. When there is a demand, especially with the population increasing, the prices will always remain strong.
Actually thats the Agony of the whole situation..Genuine buyers just waited and waited.. and now the only buyers are genuine buyers..Investors are sitting on the sidelines..
Population increase is only possible with GDP and economy growth.. with US and EU GDP being dismal.. SG GDP will also slow down in next quarters..
With 2012 new supply coming in with no economic growth/population growth it can be a really bad mix.. :2cents:
Amidst the firing or 30k, some good news for Asia...hiring 15k in emerging mkts, probably including S'pore..., more FT heading this way
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9826c662-bc1a-11e0-80e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Tpzrr4Lb
Last updated: August 1, 2011 7:31 pm
HSBC set to launch hiring spree in Asia
By Sharlene Goff in London and Henny Sender in Hong Kong
HSBC (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=uk:HSBA)is planning to hire up to 15,000 people in fast-growing markets in Asia and Latin America over the next three years even after confirmation of the bank’s plans to cull jobs elsewhere.
Stuart Gulliver, HSBC chief executive, revealed plans on Monday to cut up to 30,000 jobs by 2013, (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74357e3c-b9e6-11e0-8171-00144feabdc0.html)as HSBC reported stronger-than-expected first-half results.
The cuts, which analysts expect will come mostly in Europe and the US, are part of Mr Gulliver’s plan to strip up to $3.5bn from the bank’s cost base by 2013. Of the 5,000 job cuts already identified by the bank, 700 will come from the UK, the same in France and the rest from Middle-East and some parts of its Latin American operations.
However, the bank is continuing a hiring spree in Asia and Latin America, particularly in Hong Kong and Brazil. Mr Gulliver said the bank would continue this trend, with plans to hire 3,000-5,000 staff per year in Asia and Latin America.
The shift in focus comes after HSBC reported strong growth in its core Asian markets while its European operations suffered a sharp fall in profits.
Hong Kong and the rest of Asia contributed almost 60 per cent of the group’s overall $11.5bn of pre-tax profit in the first half, 3 per cent higher than the same period last year. Profits overall from Asia excluding Hong Kong jumped 40 per cent on the back of double-digit lending and deposit growth.
In contrast, Europe generated $2.1bn of pre-tax profits, a third lower than the year before.
Analysts said the sharp rise in costs in the first half – which increased 13 per cent to $20.5bn, more than they had expected – was the biggest disappointment in an otherwise solid set of results.
The cost increase was driven largely by the hiring spree in Asia and Latin America, where wages have been rising fast.
Overall group revenues were stable at $35.7bn, while analysts had expected a slight fall.
However, building on the grim trend seen across Europe last week, (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43425e54-b477-11e0-a21d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1TkxFZobl)HSBC’s investment banking business suffered a 12 per cent fall in profits after a weaker performance from its credit and interest rate trading divisions.
The bank sounded a cautious note on its future prospects as regulatory pressures and sovereign credit concerns intensified.
Mr Gulliver said the recent rescue package for Greece had reduced the pressure “from acute to chronic” but serious issues remained.
However, he was relieved at the deal struck by the US administration to lift the debt ceiling (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/d3798b9c-bb7e-11e0-a7c8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1ThOcDR6h).
“We see no sign of the impairment charge worsening in the US. There is no sign that we can see of a risk of a double dip [recession],” he said.
HSBC’s shares rose 2.1 per cent to 607.5p on Monday.
Always have people who have to sell, or have to buy.
MRT lines opening up so some interest in those as well.
Low rates and no catalyst either way - so small upward bias on prices on low tx volume.
Investors? Maybe watch rental rates too.
Actually thats the Agony of the whole situation..Genuine buyers just waited and waited.. and now the only buyers are genuine buyers..Investors are sitting on the sidelines..
Population increase is only possible with GDP and economy growth.. with US and EU GDP being dismal.. SG GDP will also slow down in next quarters..
With 2012 new supply coming in with no economic growth/population growth it can be a really bad mix.. :2cents:
u think this will happen next year ? how do u come to that conclusion ?
USA rates will stay low, very low, for a long time. that's my reading.
When USD loses its AAA rating, cost of borrowing for US will go up and so will be the interest rate.
When USD loses its AAA rating, cost of borrowing for US will go up and so will be the interest rate.
Not really...
FED can keep buying the US's own debt..that will keep the interest rate low..Thats what they been doing in QEs...
Only thing is FED will need fresh mandate from senate to print more money..so they can buy more US debt..
The only thing is will do is devalue the USD more..which in turn increase inflation. And frustration of people who own US debt..i.e. China and EMG countries.. as they get less returns cause of devalued $..
Only thing is that in the future when US will try to sell Debt to China/Foreign buyers.. they will run away :simmering:
Investors wont buy US debt..cause US $ will fall.. which will erode returns..
Econmics 101 :D
Not really...
FED can keep buying the US's own debt..that will keep the interest rate low..Thats what they been doing in QEs...
Only thing is FED will need fresh mandate from senate to print more money..so they can buy more US debt..
The only thing is will do is devalue the USD more..which in turn increase inflation. And frustration of people who own US debt..i.e. China and EMG countries.. as they get less returns cause of devalued $..
Only thing is that in the future when US will try to sell Debt to China/Foreign buyers.. they will run away :simmering:
Investors wont buy US debt..cause US $ will fall.. which will erode returns..
Econmics 101 :D
They will be printing papers by then. Investors will still buy US debt if only the interest is high enough to cover the risk.
Just wondering how is the devaluing of USD going to impact MAS, Temasek and GIC in the long run. Will a collapse of dollar wipe out a huge chunk of our reserves including our CPF monies?
They will be printing papers by then. Investors will still buy US debt if only the interest is high enough to cover the risk.
Just wondering how is the devaluing of USD going to impact MAS, Temasek and GIC in the long run. Will a collapse of dollar wipe out a huge chunk of our reserves including our CPF monies?
FED can keep printing and US govt can keep spending :cheers1:
But eventually that will cause US $ to become toilet paper..So they do need investors..
but one can argue that if US falls into default and debt trap then it will anyway initiate wars and fight for resources with other countries...so what can be safer then US anyway? AAA or AA or A ..what diff that will make?
Temasek and GIC should be safe if they are holding to assets and debt..cause assets will appreciate to cover for US$ fall..if you see ..US stock prices keep getting higher..cause those are assets..assets will adjust by its very nature due to inflation...
When property market crashed, many people did not buy. So what happened to buy low?
The rule applies for buying stocks as well. When people are panic-selling, buy! Don't need to be rich to invest.
Thanks for the insightful financial talk. I have a friend who has only $20k as his life saving. Maybe I should ask him to buy stock & property to make $200K:D[/quote]
Must see how old he is. Maybe 20 years old with life savings of $20k :cool:
A SG person with SG$100k isn't classified as rich but that 100k is a good amount to start with.
I've mentioned in my post that its about holding power (exactly what you wrote) based on the purpose of purchase (my additional point). :spliff:
I still disagree about the purpose of purchase. If for investment, buyer must be able to afford to hold for investment in case of fluctuations in sale/rent market, inability to rent out, loss of job, etc. E.g. If he is unable to make mortgage payment, especially within the first 4 years, he may have to sell at a loss. But if he can hold on till after 4 years, his loss may be less.
From what you are saying, your "buy low sell high" rule not so simple as you say leh...
The rule is simple. Executing is not ;)
Same with many people who have great ideas but poor planning and execution.
I still disagree about the purpose of purchase. If for investment, buyer must be able to afford to hold for investment in case of fluctuations in sale/rent market, inability to rent out, loss of job, etc. E.g. If he is unable to make mortgage payment, especially within the first 4 years, he may have to sell at a loss. But if he can hold on till after 4 years, his loss may be less.:doh: If buying for investment, must be able to hold for 4 years, whether retrench, loss of rental, etc. If buying for own stay, must be able to hold for 10 years, whether retrench, loss of rental, etc. The amount of holding power must be generally stronger for own stay as compared with investment properties. :doh: :spliff:
Agree. Just as what Jim Rogers said, "Bottoms in the investment world don’t end with four-year lows. They end with 10 or 15-year lows."
The economic problems in Japan has lasted for longer than 20 years now, still no end to be seen.
Gold, silver and many commodities have done nothing for 20 years before they go up again.
I was lucky to hold my property portfolio for a few years and make a profit. But next time, I will ask myself the following questions before I commit:
• Do I have the holding power to wait for the next bull run?
• Can I possibly see the silver lining before my retirement?
• Will I live long enough to see a recovery?
• Do I have to wait for my next generations to finally realize the profit?
:doh: If buying for investment, must be able to hold for 4 years, whether retrench, loss of rental, etc. If buying for own stay, must be able to hold for 10 years, whether retrench, loss of rental, etc. The amount of holding power must be generally stronger for own stay as compared with investment properties. :doh: :spliff:
During the first 4 years, the buyer will try to hold the property to avoid SSD.
After 4 years, the buyer who occupies the place can also sell if he's unable to make payments without SSD.
Therefore, there's no difference whether he's buying to invest or to live in.
US default may be averted, but a downgrade is still possible!
During the first 4 years, the buyer will try to hold the property to avoid SSD.
After 4 years, the buyer who occupies the place can also sell if he's unable to make payments without SSD.
Therefore, there's no difference whether he's buying to invest or to live in.Agreed... only thing is there's no holding power to stay but more so to invest...:p A stayer's mentality is to hold for long periods. No joke to keep shifting every 4 years. One person move is easy, but if you have 6 people involved, its :scared-1:. Yes the SSD has somewhat blurred the line betw invest and stay...:sleep:
Agreed... only thing is there's no holding power to stay but more so to invest...:p A stayer's mentality is to hold for long periods. No joke to keep shifting every 4 years. One person move is easy, but if you have 6 people involved, its :scared-1:. Yes the SSD has somewhat blurred the line betw invest and stay...:sleep:
Got $ to make, I will move! I'm never too lazy to make $ :p
I find it interesting that many people like to live on one part of the island their whole life. Many people tend to always buy in the same area.
Got $ to make, I will move! I'm never too lazy to make $ :p
I find it interesting that many people like to live on one part of the island their whole life. Many people tend to always buy in the same area.
Just curious. Your family dont mind moving frequently around with you too?:D
Just curious. Your family dont mind moving frequently around with you too?:D
My immediate family will be unwilling to move. But I live on my own so I do what I want ;)
My immediate family will be unwilling to move. But I live on my own so I do what I want ;)Good for you... :cool: So while waiting for your new purchase to TOP, you are renting or bought another place? I suspect you are currently not staying in D19 or D13.
Good for you... :cool: So while waiting for your new purchase to TOP, you are renting or bought another place? I suspect you are currently not staying in D19 or D13.
How you know? :o Renting now.
Got $ to make, I will move! I'm never too lazy to make $ :p
I find it interesting that many people like to live on one part of the island their whole life. Many people tend to always buy in the same area.
How much do you spend on renovation and buying new furniture every time you move into a new place?
For rental, I don't spend anything on renovation. I bring my old appliances, e.g. fridge, microwave, PC, fan, etc with me. As for furniture, I buy during sale, and can re-use old furniture (the cheap type are good for at most 2 moves).
But if I were to buy a new resale apt, I would factor in the cost (and effort) of renovation into the selling price of the previous place.
How you know? :o Renting now.Just my guesses based on what you wrote. LOL! :p When Bartley plot is launched, your new purchase may benefit too! Cheers! :cheers1:
Just my guesses based on what you wrote. LOL! :p When Bartley plot is launched, your new purchase may benefit too! Cheers! :cheers1:
Seems to be launching in around 2 months' time:
http://www.sg-house.com/classifieds/new-launches/3933857-new-launch-bartley-road-next-to-bartley-mrt-near-nex-mall.html
I'm expecting the average psf to be around $1350. The MM units could be as high as $1500 psf. Developer is CDL with good holding power.
http://www.hotnewproperty.sg/bartley-site-draws-top-bid-of-620-61-psf-ppr/ (http://www.hotnewproperty.sg/bartley-site-draws-top-bid-of-620-61-psf-ppr/)
Jonathan0503
03-08-11, 09:15
My immediate family will be unwilling to move. But I live on my own so I do what I want ;)
You are lucky.
Not many with family member staying together are willing to move. Especially when you have old folks around
Lived in D03, D05, D10, D14, now D2x :eek: - so far from town :scared-5:
Of course I hope that the price will go up (actually I'm fairly confident it will) but even if it doesn't I know I will be happy staying there :cheers1:
You are lucky.
Not many with family member staying together are willing to move. Especially when you have old folks around
I think it's 33% luck. The rest is planning and hard work :)
The place I bought is beside a nursing home. If my parents need to go to one in future, I can try there. Or next time when I'm old, I pack my bags and go next door to live :D
Lived in D03, D05, D10, D14, now D2x :eek: - so far from town :scared-5:
Of course I hope that the price will go up (actually I'm fairly confident it will) but even if it doesn't I know I will be happy staying there :cheers1:
I think it's 33% luck. The rest is planning and hard work :)
The place I bought is beside a nursing home. If my parents need to go to one in future, I can try there. Or next time when I'm old, I pack my bags and go next door to live :D
no offense, but you do sound like you might have over stretched yourself thats why you cant afford to live in your own property(ies)
Living in hotel is nice but coming back to home is still sweeter
no offense, but you do sound like you might have over stretched yourself thats why you cant afford to live in your own property(ies)
Living in hotel is nice but coming back to home is still sweeter
Owning property is a long-term commitment. Have to be sure that it's the right place to live in and in the right frame of mind before signing the cheque.
The notion of "coming back to your own home" is a result of government brainwash, just like the average older generation's notion that being "debt free" is always better than having a loan to service.
Owning property is a long-term commitment. Have to be sure that it's the right place to live in and in the right frame of mind before signing the cheque.
The notion of "coming back to your own home" is a result of government brainwash, just like the average older generation's notion that being "debt free" is always better than having a loan to service.
there is no perfect place to live in this world, just got to be realistic with what you have and what you can afford.
Having a roof is not a result of government brain wash, it is a natural human necessity to start a family. And it will be foolish to continue renting for the rest of your life while in Singapore because 20 years down the road, you will tell yourself that I could have fully paid up a property if I bought one 20 years ago.
Furthermore it is time like this (low interest) which you would want to leverage yourself because the cost of borrowing is now cheaper that the cost of putting your money in the bank (inflation).
Singapore is not a welfare state, if you are consider migrating, it might be better to do it soon rather than later or else you might end up living in one of the nursing home later in life.
there is no perfect place to live in this world, just got to be realistic with what you have and what you can afford.
Agreed! It is also about your adaptability to your environment and your expectation for the near/far future. More importantly, as a traditional Chinese, where your family is. These are undeniable factors that affect your decision on where you choose to live in. :o
Lived in D03, D05, D10, D14, now D2x :eek: - so far from town :scared-5:
Of course I hope that the price will go up (actually I'm fairly confident it will) but even if it doesn't I know I will be happy staying there :cheers1:
I think it's 33% luck. The rest is planning and hard work :)
The place I bought is beside a nursing home. If my parents need to go to one in future, I can try there. Or next time when I'm old, I pack my bags and go next door to live :D
Wah.... very thoughtful of you to consider for your parents.
Owning property is a long-term commitment. Have to be sure that it's the right place to live in and in the right frame of mind before signing the cheque.
The notion of "coming back to your own home" is a result of government brainwash, just like the average older generation's notion that being "debt free" is always better than having a loan to service.
Suddenly I feel very old, stupid and manipulated. I guess I probably am.
there is no perfect place to live in this world, just got to be realistic with what you have and what you can afford.
Having a roof is not a result of government brain wash, it is a natural human necessity to start a family. And it will be foolish to continue renting for the rest of your life while in Singapore because 20 years down the road, you will tell yourself that I could have fully paid up a property if I bought one 20 years ago.
Furthermore it is time like this (low interest) which you would want to leverage yourself because the cost of borrowing is now cheaper that the cost of putting your money in the bank (inflation).
Singapore is not a welfare state, if you are consider migrating, it might be better to do it soon rather than later or else you might end up living in one of the nursing home later in life.
I agree with the 1st and 3rd paragraph.
A roof over your head is a necessity. But a roof over your head that is fully paid for isn't.
Do you know what nursing homes are for and how much a bed there costs? It's our mentality and culture here that tells us that stay in a nursing home is bad.
Agreed! It is also about your adaptability to your environment and your expectation for the near/far future. More importantly, as a traditional Chinese, where your family is. These are undeniable factors that affect your decision on where you choose to live in. :o Tradition! I wonder what it's good for ;)
Suddenly I feel very old, stupid and manipulated. I guess I probably am.
Did I hit a raw nerve? :p
It is alright to hve debt as long as it is good debt.
Owning property is a long-term commitment. Have to be sure that it's the right place to live in and in the right frame of mind before signing the cheque.
The notion of "coming back to your own home" is a result of government brainwash, just like the average older generation's notion that being "debt free" is always better than having a loan to service.
Exactly! But many people can't get used to that idea.
Exactly! But many people can't get used to that idea.
The term is leverage.
many forms exists today.
one can also borrow SGD with low rates and buy CNH to earn higher interest and future appreciation.
Tradition! I wonder what it's good for ;)
Hmmm... then can I conclude that tradition is good for nothing for you? :cool:
The term is leverage.
many forms exists today.
one can also borrow SGD with low rates and buy CNH to earn higher interest and future appreciation.
Not all types of leverage are suitable for people to use, especially because people love thinking about the possible upside but they don't think about whether they can handle the downside.
But borrowing to buy property at 1% interest p.a. in SG is totally alright.
Hmmm... then can I conclude that tradition is good for nothing for you? :cool:
Ya :o I can't think of anything good about it
Not all types of leverage are suitable for people to use, especially because people love thinking about the possible upside but they don't think about whether they can handle the downside.
But borrowing to buy property at 1% interest p.a. in SG is totally alright.
Ya :o I can't think of anything good about it
Even if it falls 10-15% a year later...
..Property prices already have accounted 1% interest rate for long long time..
Every buyer think they are the smartest and only they know that 1% interest rate will stay for long time :doh:
stalingrad
05-08-11, 13:07
high end condos are more likely to crash than mass condos, which are supported by ungrading demands.
Don't be surprised if rivergate drops to $1300psf.
high end condos are more likely to crash than mass condos, which are supported by ungrading demands.
Don't be surprised if rivergate drops to $1300psf.
Thats funny..did you buy Mass condo? :D
What when blood on wall street is followed by blood on the main street.. ?when the people start losing job who the heck gonna upgrade? :doh:
high end condos are more likely to crash than mass condos, which are supported by ungrading demands.
Don't be surprised if rivergate drops to $1300psf.Then those HDB upgraders will go for Rivergate instead of other OCR le... :p
stalingrad
05-08-11, 13:38
Thats funny..did you buy Mass condo? :D
What when blood on wall street is followed by blood on the main street.. ?when the people start losing job who the heck gonna upgrade? :doh:
upgrading will happen in bad as well as good economic times.
demand for prime condos in Singapore is driven by investment by foreigners. that will stop when the double dip occurs.
kingkong1984
05-08-11, 13:40
Too late to sell now:D
no BUYERS to be found..
no BUYers...
no BUY..
no....
;)
upgrading will happen in bad as well as good economic times.
demand for prime condos in Singapore is driven by investment by foreigners. that will stop when the double dip occurs.
The best time to upgrade is during bad times.
very true, thats why they say.... always have some spare cash for a rainy day....
kingkong1984
05-08-11, 14:37
The best time to upgrade is during bad times.
the savvy secret.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Determining-a-Good-Deal-When-Buying-in-Recession&id=859080
The best time to invest is also during bad times! :D
The best time to invest is also during bad times! :D
Wait wait wait..
3-6 months to singaporeans to realize that SG economy is not immune to the world economy :doh:
high end condos are more likely to crash than mass condos, which are supported by ungrading demands.
Don't be surprised if rivergate drops to $1300psf.
River gate 1300.. Carabelle being leasehold and away from town will be 600, micasa in chua chu Kang will be 400 psf, ec will be 300 psf, resale hdb 200 psf, bto 100 psf.... :D
Wait wait wait..
3-6 months to singaporeans to realize that SG economy is not immune to the world economy :doh:
Yes, agree... Need 3-6 months before property will drop if bad news continue
Finally! It is worth the wait :D All potential buyers, we shall stand by and chiong in time. Do not miss the boat again!
Finally! It is worth the wait :D All potential buyers, we shall stand by and chiong in time. Do not miss the boat again!If you unite all potential buyers, then you'll be competing w one another. :p
stalingrad
05-08-11, 16:00
River gate 1300.. Carabelle being leasehold and away from town will be 600, micasa in chua chu Kang will be 400 psf, ec will be 300 psf, resale hdb 200 psf, bto 100 psf.... :D
carabelle is not LH. It is 999 years LH, almost the same as FH. I don't like LH properties.
kingkong1984
05-08-11, 16:36
If you unite all potential buyers, then you'll be competing w one another. :p
Dun worry, there are enough to go around.
Look for fishes that is bleeding in low tide.
Some fishes are stronger than the rest and could even walk on land and breath air. Need very little water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_fish
carabelle is not LH. It is 999 years LH, almost the same as FH. I don't like LH properties.Some LH properties have better rental yields than FH... :D
Condo Kaiser
05-08-11, 18:17
most LH have better yield compared to FH
assuming everything else are similar
Condo Kaiser
05-08-11, 18:19
but i would still go for FH in current climate.
don't wan to be one of those poor souls who got stuck since 1997....
Black Monday coming? The stack of cards will fall instantly:D :D
Dow should be up later, and if it stay up STI will be green on mon...
Futures Jump After Positive Jobs Report
[url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/44031109[/]
Futures rallied Friday after a government jobs report that trumped expectations, following a sharp global selloff across in the previous session as investors were rattled over fears the European debt crisis was spreading to Spain and Italy.*
RELATED LINKS
Pre-Market Index DataDow 30-Extra Hours Quotes
Hiring picked up in July as the Labor Department reported employers added 117,000 jobs last month and the unemployment rate dipped to 9.1 percent, an improvement from the past two months. Economists had expected a gain of 85,000 jobs.
"Wow! An incredible surprise considering the horrific macro points we've received the past few months," said Todd Schoenberger, managing director of LandColt Trading. "Personal spending, manufacturing, GDP—all of this kept traders awake at night."
"Risk will reenter the markets, especially after yesterday's poisoned session," added Schoenberger. "Look for yields to rise, as well, with investors shifting allocations before the weekend."
Finally! It is worth the wait :D All potential buyers, we shall stand by and chiong in time. Do not miss the boat again!
U know, if and when the crash really happens, many will be scared and miss the boat again. 2009 was the most recent example.
Bought some blue chips when STI drop by 100pts at the start of this morning. This is not the time to buy property. :tsk-tsk:
The best time to invest is also during bad times! :D
Not really sure how many people will really dare to go in when drop by 10%. Some will probably be just waiting for it to drop further while others worry they may loose their job. End up may miss the boat again:banghead:
Finally! It is worth the wait :D All potential buyers, we shall stand by and chiong in time. Do not miss the boat again!
Bought some blue chips when STI drop by 100pts at the start of this morning. This is not the time to buy property. :tsk-tsk:Well one has to be really careful in properties during down times which can potentially have more than 100% returns. :D
Time to make $ from shares and stock up to buy properties later.
Well one has to be really careful in properties during down times which can potentially have more than 100% returns. :D
Bravo to those who bought into the depressed shares today
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44032861
"Stocks rallied at the open Friday after a stronger-than-expected government jobs report, following a sharp global selloff in the previous session as investors were rattled over the ongoing European debt crisis.
MAJOR U.S. INDEXES
.DJIA11536.11
152.43+1.34%
.NCOMP2588.73
32.34+1.26%0
.SPX1216.75
16.68+1.39%0
The Dow Jones Industrial Average opened higher, led by GE [GE* 16.785* * 0.315* (+1.91%) * ] and DuPont [DD* 48.54* * 1.30* (+2.75%) * ] after nose-diving more than 500 points—its worst one-day fall since Dec. 2008.
That is good news!:cool:
Bravo to those who bought into the depressed shares today
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44032861
"Stocks rallied at the open Friday after a stronger-than-expected government jobs report, following a sharp global selloff in the previous session as investors were rattled over the ongoing European debt crisis.
MAJOR U.S. INDEXES
.DJIA11536.11
152.43+1.34%
.NCOMP2588.73
32.34+1.26%0
.SPX1216.75
16.68+1.39%0
The Dow Jones Industrial Average opened higher, led by GE [GE* 16.785* * 0.315* (+1.91%) * ] and DuPont [DD* 48.54* * 1.30* (+2.75%) * ] after nose-diving more than 500 points—its worst one-day fall since Dec. 2008.
so many pple scare just after 1 wk of market correction. Cries of double dip, bear killing bull all coming. Big fish trapping small fishes lor.
i applaud Master 3rd eye BJ21T. Some how i got a feeling he going to win big time on his bet this round.
Bro GOOD LUCK!! HUAT HUAT ah
That is good news!:cool:
Some say it's a conspiracy theory and certain parties may have benefit from the drastic selling. Am sure the job data would have been available already last night.
Quoted from another forum:
"Why those big funds did not sell before the "debt crisis" done. Suppose to happen only when US default. But instead we see collapse of mkt upon done deal of US debt ceiling. No wonder this world nowsaday got so many terrorists against the west."
Rich and influential people always benefit from such sharp drop in the stock market :cheers1:
Some say it's a conspiracy theory and certain parties may have benefit from the drastic selling. Am sure the job data would have been available already last night.
Quoted from another forum:
"Why those big funds did not sell before the "debt crisis" done. Suppose to happen only when US default. But instead we see collapse of mkt upon done deal of US debt ceiling. No wonder this world nowsaday got so many terrorists against the west."
Some say it's a conspiracy theory and certain parties may have benefit from the drastic selling. Am sure the job data would have been available already last night.
Quoted from another forum:
"Why those big funds did not sell before the "debt crisis" done. Suppose to happen only when US default. But instead we see collapse of mkt upon done deal of US debt ceiling. No wonder this world nowsaday got so many terrorists against the west."
best time to make big bucks now. Punters is on overdrive mode now.
Just like property market. Never buy beyond one's means and never borrow to buy. Must have holding power.
best time to make big bucks now. Punters is on overdrive mode now.
linchong84
05-08-11, 22:06
Such a good and overexpected positive jobs data end up now DOW is -70points..
Gone case. flee........
Bravo to those who bought into the depressed shares today
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44032861
"Stocks rallied at the open Friday after a stronger-than-expected government jobs report, following a sharp global selloff in the previous session as investors were rattled over the ongoing European debt crisis.
MAJOR U.S. INDEXES
.DJIA11536.11
152.43+1.34%
.NCOMP2588.73
32.34+1.26%0
.SPX1216.75
16.68+1.39%0
The Dow Jones Industrial Average opened higher, led by GE [GE* 16.785* * 0.315* (+1.91%) * ] and DuPont [DD* 48.54* * 1.30* (+2.75%) * ] after nose-diving more than 500 points—its worst one-day fall since Dec. 2008.
what rally? its in the negative territory now after 30mins of trading in dow jones! :cheers6:
come monday,there will be another round of bloodbath..:cheers6:
Can buy more!
what rally? its in the negative territory now after 30mins of trading in dow jones! :cheers6:
come monday,there will be another round of bloodbath..:cheers6:
what rally? its in the negative territory now after 30mins of trading in dow jones! :cheers6:
come monday,there will be another round of bloodbath..:cheers6:
there.... positive again lor. pple in out in out huat big time ah
Can buy more!
Good to crash. Clean up the very weak companies and banks. Re-boot to new growth in 2014.
there.... positive again lor. pple in out in out huat big time ah
and negative again!!! AHHAHA punters huat huat ah
Good to crash. Clean up the very weak companies and banks. Re-boot to new growth in 2014.
just crashed not too long ago.... chemotherapy on US market havnt clear the cancer cells yet wor.... 1 more time Cancer make will send it to their graves liao leh. Later spread to other parts of the world all die together. Now reaching US's best friend liao.
Monday will be exciting:D :D
Can buy more!
Ya, can buy more , only for those with bullet$. Those no bullet$ will continue to shout lelong, scream for further downside...
Anyway, a Global recession will not be good most people..., USA, Japan and EU 3major trading blocks of Singapore..., China will also be impacted (probably domestic economy can buffer some decline but would slow it growth), companies turn cautious, retrenchment, job loss, maybe less FT in S'pore to rent our 2nd and 3rd properties..., some Jobless PRs will sell their resale HDB and condos, packed and leave...then...we would probably have take some steps back..
I believe USA and European markets will remain volatile ...,trade and invest with care..but with the correction, there are some gems out there....
there.... positive again lor. pple in out in out huat big time ah
:doh:.. this is very typical market..resisting the fall with few stupid people coming in to do so called Value picking..
Wait for a day or two for them to realize then when knife is falling then its better to get out of the way..
Will get hurt really bad.. this is a big biys play..once they go short then fundamental goes out for a toss..
Me going short.. let's see how many value pickers are there :tongue3:
Soemthing for people who feeling excited about job growth
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44033486
Short short short all the way :cheers1:
National day 46% discount on Monday? :rolleyes:
Structural unemployment in US... that's why always need to upgrade your skills bcoz they become obsolete very fast.
National day 46% discount on Monday? :rolleyes:
I also want 46% discount..., but think it won't happen this National Day..:D
:doh:.. this is very typical market..resisting the fall with few stupid people coming in to do so called Value picking..
Wait for a day or two for them to realize then when knife is falling then its better to get out of the way..
Will get hurt really bad.. this is a big biys play..once they go short then fundamental goes out for a toss..
Me going short.. let's see how many value pickers are there :tongue3:
U trading against GS super computers wor , in out few ticks ran . How to win computer? Big boys r killing the fringe players. 0 sum game. Transfer our $$$ into their pockets
U trading against GS super computers wor , in out few ticks ran . How to win computer? Big boys r killing the fringe players. 0 sum game. Transfer our $$$ into their pockets
One of my friend code Algo trading system.. hehe..Do you really believe they smarter then humans? They are just faster then humans :2cents: Else prop trading would never suffer loss :tsk-tsk:
In the end its the guts..Martyrs and heroes...thats market..
..ready to be a martyr :D
yes, Algo trading do not work in volatile markets when there is panic selling. They now have circuit breakers to prevent further short selling so this puts algo in a disadvantage...
anyway, the key is to cherry pick and hold......
One of my friend code Algo trading system.. hehe..Do you really believe they smarter then humans? They are just faster then humans :2cents: Else prop trading would never suffer loss :tsk-tsk:
In the end its the guts..Martyrs and heroes...thats market..
..ready to be a martyr :D
they are not smarter but 1mX faster. In this imperfect world with imperfect information flow, theres always 2 sides buyer n seller. just need to be damn quick to hit both side with 1-2 ticks huat liao.
sometimes is see the screen flash already ran few clicks liao.....
now is a good time to make $$$ for punters!! huat haut ah
...
now is a good time to make $$$ for punters!! huat haut ah
As long the market is volatile, there is $ to be made, yes, punters' market now. U can either buy low and then sell high later, or sell high now and buy low shortly...
Punters only worry when there is no price movement....:2cents:
As long the market is volatile, there is $ to be made, yes, punters' market now. U can either buy low and then sell high later, or sell high now and buy low shortly...
Punters only worry when there is no price movement....:2cents:
hehe....Punters paradise today..can buy either way
But big money is in conviction where market will be in 3 months time..
Can do reasearch..but in the end its all luck and your guts..
As long as you play with what you can afford to lose :cheers1:
Short short short :hell-hath-no-fury:
hehe....Punters paradise today..can buy either way
But big money is in conviction where market will be in 3 months time..
Can do reasearch..but in the end its all luck and your guts..
As long as you play with what you can afford to lose :cheers1:
Short short short :hell-hath-no-fury:
sorry i post 2 cents worth..... short can make $$$ now, confirm. But one make enough margins, ran. US govt is not able to take proper medication to cure the sickness, but take fast pill to suppress the problem. I think a 3rd measure will likely come. make liao faster ran bro.
bargain hunter
06-08-11, 00:04
finally a day which excites bargain hunter. :im-so-happy:
sorry i post 2 cents worth..... short can make $$$ now, confirm. But one make enough margins, ran. US govt is not able to take proper medication to cure the sickness, but take fast pill to suppress the problem. I think a 3rd measure will likely come. make liao faster ran bro.
Thx for 2 cents...But Nah... am going short in a big way...time to challenge US printing machine :tongue3:
My take - QE3 is already priced in.
Else with state world is in..stocks would be 30% lower then current value..
Thx for 2 cents...But Nah... am going short in a big way...time to challenge US printing machine :tongue3:
My take - QE3 is already priced in.
Else with state world is in..stocks would be 30% lower then current value..
At the rate things are falling, market is pricing the debt deal is lousy and the $T spending cut is going to hit market anyway, plus MEASURES3 might not be enough/not come.
move fast, good luck. recent 2 years trading have taught me 1 thing. MArket will turn at a blink of the eye. Super Computers trading(my conclusion)
did it chong 100 point in blink of the eye......?
Super volatile trade 2nite....:D
"The CBOE Volatility Index, widely considered the best gauge of fear in the market, surged almost 10 percent to trade above 34"
Super volatile trade 2nite....:D
"The CBOE Volatility Index, widely considered the best gauge of fear in the market, surged almost 10 percent to trade above 34"
in 5 mins its might turn green!!
Jobs data gave short-lived early boost. Now markets shedding blood... all red. Keep your hypertension and high blood pressure pills close by. I think toniight is going to be wild ride.
M I seeing thing? I switch off com, climb on bed, check iPad up 140 points le.....
M I seeing thing? I switch off com, climb on bed, check iPad up 140 points le.....
At this point in time up 130pts. After 12pm just kept on shooting up, just before 1pm cleared 11,400.... wahhh.. very exciting!
DJ has close up 60plus pts. Let's see how Asia reacts on Monday.
At this point in time up 130pts. After 12pm just kept on shooting up, just before 1pm cleared 11,400.... wahhh.. very exciting!
DJ has close up 60plus pts. Let's see how Asia reacts on Monday.
S&P500 still ended negative..
wait for s&P to cut US AAA rating..causing fresh fears..
Those who short on Thurs happy like nobody's business. Then some rushed in on fri... oops! Let's see Monday!
When will it happen?
S&P500 still ended negative..
wait for s&P to cut US AAA rating..causing fresh fears..
kingkong1984
06-08-11, 08:18
Thats external.....
Internal, seee if any mention in national day ralley by pm.
S&P500 still ended negative..
wait for s&P to cut US AAA rating..causing fresh fears..
u didnt know? they did!!
BOOMZ! :scared-5:
DJ has close up 60plus pts. Let's see how Asia reacts on Monday.
needless to say,bloodbath will continue...:cheers6:
There will be more millionaire in singapore with the devaluation of US$.
needless to say,bloodbath will continue...:cheers6:
in a nutshell the stock market is just a LEGALLIZED form of gambling...i gave up long time ago just like playing Big/Small...:scared-1:
I think todays headlines in the straits times answers my question...BLOODBATH across global markets means...property going to CRASH...hold on tight brothers and sisters...we are doing a corkscrew on a rollercoaster ...:scared-1:
needless to say,bloodbath will continue...:cheers6:Yes... US rating by S&P reduced to AA+. Sure bloodbath will persist! :scared-3:
I think todays headlines in the straits times answers my question...BLOODBATH across global markets means...property going to CRASH...hold on tight brothers and sisters...we are doing a corkscrew on a rollercoaster ...:scared-1:
No Lehman Brothers these days. Don't be scared. Only GIC and Temasek end up losing our CPF and reserve $ again. Get ready for longer retirement age and more taxes and another Goodyear saga. Government also generates cash indirectly from HDB sales. Their stable prices provide a safety net for pte property. Just wait for US and more countries being forced to print more $ to prop up their stocks market and economy.
I think todays headlines in the straits times answers my question...BLOODBATH across global markets means...property going to CRASH...hold on tight brothers and sisters...we are doing a corkscrew on a rollercoaster ...:scared-1: How confident r you?
No Lehman Brothers these days. Don't be scared. Only GIC and Temasek end up losing our CPF and reserve $ again. Get ready for longer retirement age and more taxes and another Goodyear saga. Government also generates cash indirectly from HDB sales. Their stable prices provide a safety net for pte property. Just wait for US and more countries being forced to print more $ to prop up their stocks market and economy. no sure how much of GIC and Temasek are in the US market but the reported are high stakes in Citibank and UBS. With last week bloodbath, paper gains in Citibank would have been wiped out.....
"Business Times - 26 Jul 2011
GIC's long-term view on Citi, UBS unchanged
By CONRAD TAN
(SINGAPORE) The Government of Singapore Investment Corp's long-term view on Citigroup and UBS hasn't changed despite higher capital requirements that are likely to reduce the banks' future profitability, GIC's investment chief Ng Kok Song said yesterday.
GIC's original investment of 11 billion Swiss francs (S$16.2 billion) in UBS, made in March 2008, is still showing a heavy paper loss of some 5.6 billion francs, BT's calculations show. By contrast, its remaining stake in Citigroup is showing an unrealised gain of some US$1.1 billion, by BT's estimates.
'All global banks are likely to be affected to some extent' by the new Basel III international capital rules, Mr Ng, GIC's group chief investment officer, told reporters at a briefing. 'But our investment thesis for Citi and UBS was based on our assessment of their long term business potential.'
'In the case of Citigroup, it is one of the few banks in the world with such a big franchise in global emerging markets. Its recent results showed that, notwithstanding its losses in the US, it continued to earn very good profits and to grow its business in the emerging economies.
'In the case of UBS, we're talking about the wealth management business, which is the heart of UBS. The wealth management business is less affected by the capital increases, because you don't need that much capital to run the wealth management business as compared to trading in the investment bank.
'So our long term view on these two banks remains unchanged. But in the short term, they, like most of the global banks, are affected by sentiment in the market.'
Meanwhile, potential losses from bad debt at Chinese banks are unlikely to overwhelm China's banking system, he said. 'The Chinese government has the financial wherewithal, if necessary, to recapitalise the banks, so I don't think you're going to have a systemic problem such as what we saw in Europe.'
GIC owns 245.48 million UBS shares, or a stake of 6.41 per cent in the bank, UBS's latest annual report shows. That stake would be worth some 3.41 billion francs, at UBS's share price of 13.88 francs at 9.30pm Singapore time yesterday. Even after including the 1.98 billion in coupon payments that GIC received in the first two years of its investment in UBS, its paper loss is about 5.6 billion francs, or 51 per cent of the original 11 billion francs. "
By contrast, its current stake in Citi is showing a large paper gain.
After selling half its original stake in Citi for a profit of US$1.6 billion in September 2009, GIC still owns 3.86 per cent of the bank's ordinary equity - or about 112.095 million shares.
The average cost of those shares was US$29.50 each - after adjusting for a reverse split of Citi shares in May that merged every 10 of its shares into one share - based on information provided by GIC in September 2009.
At yesterday's opening price of US$39.69 for Citi shares in New York, the shares would be worth about US$4.45 billion, compared to the US$3.31 billion cost of acquiring them, giving GIC a paper profit of US$1.14 billion, or some 34 per cent.
2012 soon will be coming...:doh:
With the bloodred lake in US and this upcoming crisis seems like doomsday really happening on 21st october :D
With the bloodred lake in US and this upcoming crisis seems like doomsday really happening on 21st october :D21 Oct 2011 or 2012? Why 21 Oct? :confused:
With the bloodred lake in US and this upcoming crisis seems like doomsday really happening on 21st october :D
Black Monday was 21 Oct 1987, this year Monday that week falls on 17th Oct, and 21st oct 2011 falls on a Friday.... Any reason why u say 21st oct?
Seems a bit of uneasy quietness at property market front in recent days.
Just received agent SMS, a high end unit selling below value for sale. Is this the sign of the beginning:scared-3:
Guess more hungry waiting buyers will be appearing in the forum :D
Next week will be important week to indicate which direction will the property market be heading in the next 3 months! :o
Seems that there is a mistake in the computation in S&P downgrade of rating of US. :confused:
Next week will be important week to indicate which direction will the property market be heading in the next 3 months! :o
Next week will be important week to indicate which direction will the property market be heading in the next 3 months! :o
Should be fine. We are all busy chatting here instead of desperately finding buyers. :D
Seems that there is a mistake in the computation in S&P downgrade of rating of US. :confused:
when debt is higher than GDP, how can one compute their way to an affordable and sustainable solution?
Black Monday was 21 Oct 1987, this year Monday that week falls on 17th Oct, and 21st oct 2011 falls on a Friday.... Any reason why u say 21st oct?
There was this joker pastor in US who said doomsday (the Rapture) on 21st June then nothing happened so he postponed it to October lah :)
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