View Full Version : Have property, may not profit
http://www.straitstimes.com/Invest/Story/STIStory_723810.html
Have property, may not profit
Making money from real estate is not a sure thing, and the returns are sometimes not worth the risk
Published on Oct 16, 2011
By Goh Eng Yeow, Senior Correspondent
An old friend in the real estate business once estimated that only one in four investors here made any money out of investing in property.
Although he had a pulse on the market for the past four decades, I thought that his estimate was absurdly low.
Owning a home of our own is in our blood, and it would be insane for anyone to want to grab a piece of the highly prized real estate on our crowded island if it had been a money-losing proposition.
In fact, until the Government stepped in with a host of anti-speculation measures, there were numerous stories of investors who flipped their purchases for a quick profit by selling the property they had just bought to another buyer.
Still, looking at the many ups and downs of the private residential market over the years, I wonder if there is some truth to the observation made by my friend, far-fetched though it may seem.
Like the stock market, the property market moves in cycles, and if you are caught at the wrong end of the cycle, it may take years before you get to see the price you paid for that dream home again.
At a recent reunion with a group of old friends, all in their late 40s and early 50s, I observed that several of them had sold their properties in the past few months as the red-hot market was on a roll.
Surprisingly, they then chose to downgrade to a smaller apartment or HDB flat, or kept the cash proceeds.
As middle-aged investors, they are certainly more conservative in their investment outlook, but the roller coaster ride experienced by the local property market in the past 20 years also had a bearing on their decisions.
Making money from the property market is not as easy as it seems.
One friend said he had invested in a swanky Orchard Road condominium unit four years ago, only to see its price plummet soon after that with the onset of the global financial crisis. He was glad to get out, even though he had only broken even on his investment.
Another friend remarked that on paper, it would appear that he had made a hefty gain on a condo unit he had bought for investment 15 years ago. But after deducting the interest paid on the mortgage and the sums spent over the years on repairs and maintenance, the returns worked out to a paltry 3 per cent a year.
In hindsight, it is simply not a risk worth taking, considering the large outlay involved, he said.
We argued that his returns would not have been so low if he had included the rentals he had collected in his calculations.
And there lies another twist to his story: He said that unlike the current tight rental market, where landlords can pick and choose their tenants, there was a period between 2002 and 2005 when condo rentals plunged so badly that it was uneconomical for owners like himself to let out the unit.
It is a cautionary tale about some of the potential hazards in the property market that a fresh investor may want to take note of.
Talk to any seasoned property investor and he will tell you that the key to making money is 'location, location, location'.
But like the equities market, investing in the property market is also about getting the timing right.
My friend's returns on his investment were so low because he bought the condo in 1996, when prices were at a record high.
It took 10 years before property prices regained those lofty levels - and another five before they rose to a level where he could comfortably get out without incurring a loss.
Would my two friends have done better if they had waited? Their answer is no, given the recent turmoil that has rocked financial markets.
At the back of their minds was a fear that the roaring bull property market might be too good to last, given the bad memories they nursed of previous market crashes.
Some bullish property investors argue that this time, it is really different.
They note that the 1996 rally was powered primarily by local purchases, following a relaxation in the rules on the use of one's Central Provident Fund savings to buy private properties and resale HDB flats.
Now, however, foreigners account for a sizeable chunk of the buying interest. As such, even if local demand flags, there will be foreigners to prop up the market.
As US investment bank Goldman Sachs noted in a recent report, foreign buying made up 31 per cent of all private residential properties in the third quarter. It also observed that Chinese buyers dominated the purchases, accounting for 28.3 per cent of the foreign buying.
Yet, even the Goldman report found little to be exuberant about.
While sales of new private properties stayed firm in the mass-market condo segment, it observed that the resale market was subdued, with only 2,507 caveats lodged for the July-to-August period.
Also taking a cautionary stance was Malaysian investment bank CIMB, which noted that the unsold inventory of private properties had started to creep upwards in the past few quarters, even though it was still lower than that in 2009.
It expressed concerns that the selling pressure might build up in the next 12 to 18 months if fears of a recession escalate.
And with foreigners forming a significant portion of the buyers, the regional housing trend becomes important. For example, a slowdown in the red-hot Chinese property market may also have an impact here.
For property sellers, the big relief is that the concerns raised by analysts will not be relevant any more. Their big worry is how to get a decent return on their sales proceeds in order to stay ahead of inflation.
However, those aiming to buy a condo unit as an investment should realise that it is not a sure road to riches.
Getting into property investment is far easier than getting out of it - especially when the global economic climate turns chillier, like now.
[email protected]
phantom_opera
22-10-11, 19:43
1/4 is very good already, in stock market, it is probably 1 in 10, in investment linked insurance it is probably 1 in 20, in Lehman bond, it is 0
just ask those who have been playing stocks in the last 10 years, how many are net positive and how many % are they up by.
"An old friend in the real estate business once estimated that only one in four investors here made any money out of investing in property."
I really dun like reportors making sweeping statement in the press, this is very irresponsible. All these are hearsay statements without facts and figures to support.
Let share some numbers :
In 2010, there were about 900,000 units of HDB flats and 250,000 units of private properties, totally 1,150,000 units.
Let say in the peak of 1997, all time high, properties bot then not yet in money, and let us 50,000 units done that year. This is less than 5% of the total stock.
The reporter is talking 75% of the people invest in properties, be it for own stay which is also investment or for rental are not in money.
All my friends having properties are in monies.
This is like in today forum page, someone wrote about taxes on profit arising from properties. I read 3 times, and failed to understand what the writer talking about.
phantom_opera
23-10-11, 08:33
Sph takes order from khaw, what do you expect them to write? Property sure make buy buy buy lol
From a percentage game perspective, which asset glass offers a "better" chance of making money. His old friend should ask those who got invested the s chips.
His friend is not old enough ;)
All my "old" friends, who bought properties in the 80s and early 90s, made huge profit. They are the ones brave enough to do it at that time, and are rewarded for it.
And my "younger" friends, who bought the infamous Bishan 8 and duchess crest, after 12 yrs finally break even last year... (ok ok interest cost not counted, but then there was rental...)
Almost no one had serious money trouble because of pty. The ones with serious money trouble got it from stock market.
I'm not saying pty sure make. I'm saying in SG context, at least past experience (which this article tried to portrait) clearly indicates pty is a better asset class than others.
IMHO, actually not all property don't make money. It depends on the locations and the price that you bought. If you bought a condo for more than $2kpsf and with big floor area, definitely the price of the condo will be higher, then the profit margin might be lower as how much more you can increase $psf because not many average people can afford such a high price.
When the HDB was first built in Bishan, it cost <$100K and you can see now how much it appreciates.:D
I have a friend who bought a condo from his friend at about $900k at the East side and now it is going to enbloc, if more than certain percentage of the residents agree, he can get $3m:scared-1:. But unfortunately, some of the residents are too greedy, they want more and till now no more news.
I have another friend who lives in suburban area, she bought a condo at around $610k about 10 yrs back and a few months back, just heard that her neighbour sold it at $1m:scared-1:.
Check with those uncles / aunties who bought in 60s and 70s, they make tidy sum of money. :)
IMHO, actually not all property don't make money. It depends on the locations and the price that you bought. If you bought a condo for more than $2kpsf and with big floor area, definitely the price of the condo will be higher, then the profit margin might be lower as how much more you can increase $psf because not many average people can afford such a high price.
When the HDB was first built in Bishan, it cost <$100K and you can see now how much it appreciates.:D
I have a friend who bought a condo from his friend at about $900k at the East side and now it is going to enbloc, if more than certain percentage of the residents agree, he can get $3m:scared-1:. But unfortunately, some of the residents are too greedy, they want more and till now no more news.
I have another friend who lives in suburban area, she bought a condo at around $610k about 10 yrs back and a few months back, just heard that her neighbour sold it at $1m:scared-1:.
Check with those uncles / aunties who bought in 60s and 70s, they make tidy sum of money. :)
I think timing is important but catching the right point in the cycle is not simple though:)
The recent lethman bros saga is a good example. How many bought properties during that period? People are governed by fear and emotions. People would have made at least 20% if purchase a unit then. I believe is still the gut feel which overcome the fear and form the decision.
I think timing is important but catching the right point in the cycle is not simple though:)
rattydrama
23-10-11, 10:36
heard from friend, a PR was not able to buy HDB and was forced to buy landed in the early 1980s.. at ard 200k FH. Her friend who can qualify for HDB cos she married a Singaporean now :banghead:
I would think it may not help you to make huge money for general folks but at least preserve your capital. Simply, the building, labour and land costs are getting expensive due to inflation.
Another example, JB new launch also getting more expensive, RM300-400k (terrace) get you a small unit where you need to pay like 700k-1m (Semi D) to get a decent unit with proper security. 10 years ago, a 400k property (Semi D) consider good quality and 200k-300k consider norm (Terrace)
Can only think of the good old days but not practical to compare it to our current context lah... :tsk-tsk:
Jonathan0503
23-10-11, 12:08
"An old friend in the real estate business once estimated that only one in four investors here made any money out of investing in property."
I really dun like reportors making sweeping statement in the press, this is very irresponsible. All these are hearsay statements without facts and figures to support.
Let share some numbers :
In 2010, there were about 900,000 units of HDB flats and 250,000 units of private properties, totally 1,150,000 units.
Let say in the peak of 1997, all time high, properties bot then not yet in money, and let us 50,000 units done that year. This is less than 5% of the total stock.
The reporter is talking 75% of the people invest in properties, be it for own stay which is also investment or for rental are not in money.
All my friends having properties are in monies.
This is like in today forum page, someone wrote about taxes on profit arising from properties. I read 3 times, and failed to understand what the writer talking about.
He is asking the government to impose capital gain tax on those who sell properties that are not for own stay, deeming these as property trading...
Probably someone who has been priced out of the pte property market wishing the price to collapse so that he could buy one...
phantom_opera
23-10-11, 12:12
What is the investment horizon? Short term, medium term, long term? The strategy for a quick flip will be totally different from a 15y horizon. This reporter is actually not bad (I read his comment on stock market previously, believe me, he is among the best, much better than some nonsense analysts). The example he cited of course is valid for a CCR medium term investor bought at the peak of 1996 and entirely appropriate to drive the national agenda of asking people to be cautious ...
Can only think of the good old days but not practical to compare it to our current context lah... :tsk-tsk:
Current context is I see central banks printing money like no tomorrow.
Current context is I see central banks printing money like no tomorrow.
When ppl talking abt no QE3, I was just laughing.
Think further, how is the European countries going to recapitalise their
banks? where r they gg to find the monies? Perhaps, I should study the ECB to understand more as well
Look at operation twist..
QE3 is just a name, but most important is what they are doing.
When ppl talking abt no QE3, I was just laughing.
Think further, how is the European countries going to recapitalise their
banks? where r they gg to find the monies? Perhaps, I should study the ECB to understand more as well
Look at operation twist..
QE3 is just a name, but most important is what they are doing.
There's no QE3. Yet that is. Now's QE2plus. Haha. The joke is they want to leverage EFSF to backstop sovereign debt like Spain and Italy. What are they going to use as collateral??
There's no QE3. Yet that is. Now's QE2plus. Haha. The joke is they want to leverage EFSF to backstop sovereign debt like Spain and Italy. What are they going to use as collateral??
Collateral : paper, ink and printing machine.
Maybe the article should got typo... its 1 in 4 don't make money! :tsk-tsk:
Collateral : paper, ink and printing machine.
Great, I got a laser printer, when can I get my hands on some of those bailout funds?
Seriously speaking, unless they use natural resources as collateral, I doubt they are going to get much leverage. Otherwise it's just a case of printing worthless banana notes, and the Germans will be mindful of the effects of hyperinflation.
There are still opportunities. You may not get 100 or 1000 folds like those bought in 60s but still can get one to two folds in 5-10 years later. It is just not so easy to find. It could be in the OCR area. QUOTE=ysyap]Can only think of the good old days but not practical to compare it to our current context lah... :tsk-tsk:[/QUOTE]
Ball game has changed, goal posts shifted.
The uncles, aunties who rode the market for the last 10-20years are in retirement age and will take the conservative route to keep cash.
But seriously, property market with cooling measures in place are great to sustain and support the current prices. With immense infrastructure investments, e.g. highways, MRTs, hospitals (most exp private Parkway, KTP, Sengkang, Jurong East NTF) means government is getting ready to grow the population.
The media is already trying to contain car growth and encourage public transport. With 100,000 millionaires in Singapore now to grow to 400,000 millionaires by 2016 means more businesses will be setup with SG as HQ.
Like it or not, 6 million or 6.5 million population here we come.
The next big run up could be a few years to a decade away.
There are new changes in the technological space, i.e. Cloud and Virtualization, Mobile Content, means business operations are going to change for many industries.
New business segments may arise from here and people who thought their careers with traditional big companies are stable will think twice or lose their jobs in a blink of an eye, when the wave of change sets in.
"The only thing constant is change", Albert Einstein.
In summary, get ready to improve or get ready to be left behind. And if things do improve, what would happen to prices?
P.S: Singapore is a buffer state between the current superpower and to-be superpowers, plus many many other states. These are in terms of, politics, economics, social, geography (including location and natural disasters).
We have to move with the tides as a small nation. We heard many times in the last few speeches by Ex MM. Too much resistance is bad for Spore's growth and shall regret later. Given our position in both economic and physical location, we just got to move on.:cool:
Ball game has changed, goal posts shifted.
The uncles, aunties who rode the market for the last 10-20years are in retirement age and will take the conservative route to keep cash.
But seriously, property market with cooling measures in place are great to sustain and support the current prices. With immense infrastructure investments, e.g. highways, MRTs, hospitals (most exp private Parkway, KTP, Sengkang, Jurong East NTF) means government is getting ready to grow the population.
The media is already trying to contain car growth and encourage public transport. With 100,000 millionaires in Singapore now to grow to 400,000 millionaires by 2016 means more businesses will be setup with SG as HQ.
Like it or not, 6 million or 6.5 million population here we come.
The next big run up could be a few years to a decade away.
There are new changes in the technological space, i.e. Cloud and Virtualization, Mobile Content, means business operations are going to change for many industries.
New business segments may arise from here and people who thought their careers with traditional big companies are stable will think twice or lose their jobs in a blink of an eye, when the wave of change sets in.
"The only thing constant is change", Albert Einstein.
In summary, get ready to improve or get ready to be left behind. And if things do improve, what would happen to prices?
P.S: Singapore is a buffer state between the current superpower and to-be superpowers, plus many many other states. These are in terms of, politics, economics, social, geography (including location and natural disasters).
Yes, neighbours Malaysia, Indonesia more than happy to eclipse us when SG makes the slip one day and I fear the day will come if our youth gets too rebellious.
There is a reason why foreign talents are welcome to be Singapore Citizens if they make the grade because they appreciate what Singapore stands for, security, merit system, no natural disasters with a government who works hard to stay relevant (not to mention Opposition to keep PAP in check).
I can't imagine if SG depends on organic population growth with a strawberry generation. Look at Greece, 60% of their people work really hard (clock more hours than the whole Eurozone) and the 40% slack, riot, complain to ask for more subsidies.
God save us if SG becomes like that one day.
Have observed our younger Singaporeans are having the wrong attitude and lacking in the drives. Look at the Vietnamese, Indian, Chinese in Singapore. Very worried. Like what my grandad used to say: They sow the seed, my father maintain and grow while we harvest. Our next generation just wait for the processed food on the table :scared-3: .
Yes, neighbours Malaysia, Indonesia more than happy to eclipse us when SG makes the slip one day and I fear the day will come if our youth gets too rebellious.
There is a reason why foreign talents are welcome to be Singapore Citizens if they make the grade because they appreciate what Singapore stands for, security, merit system, no natural disasters with a government who works hard to stay relevant (not to mention Opposition to keep PAP in check).
I can't imagine if SG depends on organic population growth with a strawberry generation. Look at Greece, 60% of their people work really hard (clock more hours than the whole Eurozone) and the 40% slack, riot, complain to ask for more subsidies.
God save us if SG becomes like that one day.
Have observed our younger Singaporeans are having the wrong attitude and lacking in the drives. Look at the Vietnamese, Indian, Chinese in Singapore. Very worried. Like what my grandad used to say: They sow the seed, my father maintain and grow while we harvest. Our next generation just wait for the processed food on the table :scared-3: .
富不过三代。
Good luck to those who still teach their children only English because it's one straight way to hell like the West.
Better get your mother-tongue right, i.e. Tamil, Malay, Mandarin coz that's where the future lies.
One of my friend's son (was Indian national and now a SC) has done very well for "A" level who can certainly go to US on scholarship has chosen to study in India.
富不过三代。
Good luck to those who still teach their children only English because it's one straight way to hell like the West.
Better get your mother-tongue right, i.e. Tamil, Malay, Mandarin coz that's where the future lies.
Have observed our younger Singaporeans are having the wrong attitude and lacking in the drives. Look at the Vietnamese, Indian, Chinese in Singapore. Very worried. .
When I read this, my heart is very very heavy. In fact, if hv chance to see the PRC and Taiwaness work in HK, u will know our younger ones can't compete at all.
I had the chance to talk to a number of young Taiwaness and PRC working in HK in IB, they are super super hungry. They can work 20 hours a day for 3 - 5 days non-stop, or even 24 hours for 2 days... 7 days week is quite a norm.
Here, the young ones are talking about work life balance all the time. Everything they can't get is the fault of the govt. These include cannot get marry, cannot hv children, cannot buy a flat of their choice....
When I read this, my heart is very very heavy. In fact, if hv chance to see the PRC and Taiwaness work in HK, u will know our younger ones can't compete at all.
I had the chance to talk to a number of young Taiwaness and PRC working in HK in IB, they are super super hungry. They can work 20 hours a day for 3 - 5 days non-stop, or even 24 hours for 2 days... 7 days week is quite a norm.
Here, the young ones are talking about work life balance all the time. Everything they can't get is the fault of the govt. These include cannot get marry, cannot hv children, cannot buy a flat of their choice....
I support working hard but not 20hours a day. Some bodies aren't built to absorb that degree of fatigue and you don't know what it could do to your body. Nowadays young people have hypertension and all. Not a good sign. Work smart is the best. And most importantly, exercise regularly.
Here, the young ones are talking about work life balance all the time. Everything they can't get is the fault of the govt. These include cannot get marry, cannot hv children, cannot buy a flat of their choice....
Sigh....with CPF the young ones complain they hv to wait for selection, over there they wait till they hv enough for downpay. The HKies says getting a public hsing there is strike lottery.
Our younger generation is quite self-centered. Seems that everyone owes them a living. Demand things before even performing. :scared-3:
When I read this, my heart is very very heavy. In fact, if hv chance to see the PRC and Taiwaness work in HK, u will know our younger ones can't compete at all.
I had the chance to talk to a number of young Taiwaness and PRC working in HK in IB, they are super super hungry. They can work 20 hours a day for 3 - 5 days non-stop, or even 24 hours for 2 days... 7 days week is quite a norm.
Here, the young ones are talking about work life balance all the time. Everything they can't get is the fault of the govt. These include cannot get marry, cannot hv children, cannot buy a flat of their choice....
When I read this, my heart is very very heavy. In fact, if hv chance to see the PRC and Taiwaness work in HK, u will know our younger ones can't compete at all.
I had the chance to talk to a number of young Taiwaness and PRC working in HK in IB, they are super super hungry. They can work 20 hours a day for 3 - 5 days non-stop, or even 24 hours for 2 days... 7 days week is quite a norm.
Here, the young ones are talking about work life balance all the time. Everything they can't get is the fault of the govt. These include cannot get marry, cannot hv children, cannot buy a flat of their choice....Our younger generation is already showing cracks and their propensity to complain about everything there is to complain. Can't imagine when they start to have family...
Then again, working 24 hours for 2 days cannot be a norm lah... Earn all the money liao then collapse and hospitalized for extreme fatigue.. quite silly. 7 day week is a norm but this also has its undesirable effect. No time to pak tor so how to start family? While I applaud the work ethic and attitude of the youths working in other countries, I guess contextually, it must fit our system too. What we should learn is their competitve attitude and tenacity, not blindly adopt their work culture which may not suit us at all. :cheers1:
rattydrama
23-10-11, 22:15
Current context is I see central banks printing money like no tomorrow.
does it means that ppty price will continue to run north for the next 1-2 years?
rattydrama
23-10-11, 22:25
Can only think of the good old days but not practical to compare it to our current context lah... :tsk-tsk:
the point I want to bring out is no point keeping too much cash. We should invest in property, if a 10 year term cannot breakeven due to wrong timing, I am sure 20 years sure can.
My mom still keeping her 10k+ balance proceeds in the bank from 1980s re-settlement. If she had re-invested in ppty during those days, we all huat liao.
rattydrama
23-10-11, 22:32
Our younger generation is quite self-centered. Seems that everyone owes them a living. Demand things before even performing. :scared-3:
cannot really blame the youngs. It also boils down to parenting. The parents spolit them as well, it goes both ways.
I have been very strict to my little one for his own good. Hopefully he will not get influenced by his peers.
the point I want to bring out is no point keeping too much cash. We should invest in property, if a 10 year term cannot breakeven due to wrong timing, I am sure 20 years sure can.
My mom still keeping her 10k+ balance proceeds in the bank from 1980s re-settlement. If she had re-invested in ppty during those days, we all huat liao.
Yup, my father bought a terrace house during his time for about $18k (I think so) but sold it off about 30 yrs ago at about $70k. If he will to hold it till now, we'll also huat ah......;)
does it means that ppty price will continue to run north for the next 1-2 years?
1-2 years could still be subjected to short term movements, i prefer to look at it from a 5-10 year perspective.
let me put it another way, one is a more scarce commodity than the other. unless we have no way of increasing M3 in circulation.
Yup, my father bought a terrace house during his time for about $18k (I think so) but sold it off about 30 yrs ago at about $70k. If he will to hold it till now, we'll also huat ah......;)
The guy who brought your father terrace haut lah if he still keeping it...:cool:
I support working hard but not 20hours a day. Some bodies aren't built to absorb that degree of fatigue and you don't know what it could do to your body. Nowadays young people have hypertension and all. Not a good sign. Work smart is the best. And most importantly, exercise regularly.
that is the world of investment banking, there are thousand and thousand of ppl Q for your job. top $. PRC work one year there is as good as working a life time in China. That is why I said they are super hungry.
I know of ppl work till drop in office as well, and not that uncommon.
Work smart is easy to say than done in their world. The competition is so stiff that working smart is not enough, dun talk abt just working hard. They are very creative as well especially when entertaining/handling their clients and counterparts. (dun think into dirty thing ok! they are professionals)
that is the world of investment banking, there are thousand and thousand of ppl Q for your job. top $. PRC work one year there is as good as working a life time in China. That is why I said they are super hungry.
I know of ppl work till drop in office as well, and not that uncommon.
Work smart is easy to say than done in their world. The competition is so stiff that working smart is not enough, dun talk abt just working hard. They are very creative as well especially when entertaining/handling their clients and counterparts. (dun think into dirty thing ok! they are professionals)
I think some even use the oldest trade as part of their entertaining? IB is the extreme lah. There are many other areas to be involved in that will still give you a good start. But I agree that there are a lot of softies. 14 hour days are the norm when you start off and want to prove yourself. But kids want 8 hour days.
Can be strict when they are young and not when they are teens. Very different set of strategies.
cannot really blame the youngs. It also boils down to parenting. The parents spolit them as well, it goes both ways.
I have been very strict to my little one for his own good. Hopefully he will not get influenced by his peers.
Yup, my father bought a terrace house during his time for about $18k (I think so) but sold it off about 30 yrs ago at about $70k. If he will to hold it till now, we'll also huat ah......;)Time is the key... every house bought in the 70s and 80s will now bring prosperity to the owner (provided they have another place to stay after they sell coz if they sell high, they also buy high)
With that same school of thought, any property bought today will also bring prosperity to the owner 30 years later. LOL! Just wait lor. For the record, I suspect not many investor minded people will keep a property for more than 20 years so can look to take profit after 10 or 15 years... I for one will not wait even pass 10 years... too impatient liaoz! :spliff:
Would have gone up by at least 150 folds since 80s depending on location and FH.
Yup, my father bought a terrace house during his time for about $18k (I think so) but sold it off about 30 yrs ago at about $70k. If he will to hold it till now, we'll also huat ah......;)
I like to keep them especially good ones with food location and FH.
Time is the key... every house bought in the 70s and 80s will now bring prosperity to the owner (provided they have another place to stay after they sell coz if they sell high, they also buy high)
With that same school of thought, any property bought today will also bring prosperity to the owner 30 years later. LOL! Just wait lor. For the record, I suspect not many investor minded people will keep a property for more than 20 years so can look to take profit after 10 or 15 years... I for one will not wait even pass 10 years... too impatient liaoz! :spliff:
My brother-in-law went to China and work with the workers before, he said that the workers in China are very "lag", they take their own sweet time, rest more and work less. :mad: Very difficult to get things done, so most of the times, he had to do it himself.
I like to keep them especially good ones with food location and FH.
Second on the good food part.
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 08:35
Historical performance can't be used to judge future, global warming long term threat to sg survival
History repeats itself at a smaller scale? Not 100 folds in 30 years but 5 folds in 30 years? Looking at inflation, this may still be not bad.
Historical performance can't be used to judge future, global warming long term threat to sg survival
actually, our young people are not soft per se. They are constantly challenged by the "system". Eg. education, parent pressure , etc
many started young and not ready to face the challenge and when they falter they take it negatively for the rest of their life.
our system starts to stream human at a very young age and does not allow time for late boomer. It is not fair either.
Our china and other kids are different. Look at Oz kids, they are having fun while our kid are bookworming. At 33, Oz kid became CEO or some big shot in mnc. what's the chance of local people can become CEO ?
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 09:41
Once a society reaches economic maturity, people tend to seek higher meaning in life i.e. spiritual or adventure. This is not necessary a bad thing.
BTW, looks like property market starting to correct in Beijing/Shanghai.
History repeats itself at a smaller scale? Not 100 folds in 30 years but 5 folds in 30 years? Looking at inflation, this may still be not bad.
like that average 5.5% gain per year only.:scared-5:. I personally prefer boom and bust.
actually, our young people are not soft per se. They are constantly challenged by the "system". Eg. education, parent pressure , etc
many started young and not ready to face the challenge and when they falter they take it negatively for the rest of their life.
our system starts to stream human at a very young age and does not allow time for late boomer. It is not fair either.
Our china and other kids are different. Look at Oz kids, they are having fun while our kid are bookworming. At 33, Oz kid became CEO or some big shot in mnc. what's the chance of local people can become CEO ?
How many CEOs of MNCs at 33 can there be? 1 in a million? What happens to the remaining 999,999?
In the local/china system. all kids go uni, find safe mid-level management job....
Can't say which system is better.:beats-me-man:
How many CEOs of MNCs at 33 can there be? 1 in a million? What happens to the remaining 999,999?
In the local/china system. all kids go uni, find safe mid-level management job....
Can't say which system is better.:beats-me-man:
those that i know in sg are in mid 30s
devilplate
24-10-11, 10:32
actually, our young people are not soft per se. They are constantly challenged by the "system". Eg. education, parent pressure , etc
many started young and not ready to face the challenge and when they falter they take it negatively for the rest of their life.
our system starts to stream human at a very young age and does not allow time for late boomer. It is not fair either.
Our china and other kids are different. Look at Oz kids, they are having fun while our kid are bookworming. At 33, Oz kid became CEO or some big shot in mnc. what's the chance of local people can become CEO ?
y pick Oz? tot they super slack worms? no? hehe
china students aced all the distinctions in NUS/NTU:( local students no fight man:scared-3:
devilplate
24-10-11, 10:33
those that i know in sg are in mid 30s
CEO of which coy?
devilplate
24-10-11, 10:35
like that average 5.5% gain per year only.:scared-5:. I personally prefer boom and bust.
plus rental gain...not too bad bah?
rental can cover mthly installments and 30yrs later fully paid.....40% DP only.....so more den tat lor:D
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 10:40
unlikely long term return in properties can outperform STI EFT after paying property tax, income tax, furniture depreciation, legal, bank loan, agent blah blah
long term STI EFT is about 7% (of course also but buy/sell at the right time)
devilplate
24-10-11, 11:14
unlikely long term return in properties can outperform STI EFT after paying property tax, income tax, furniture depreciation, legal, bank loan, agent blah blah
long term STI EFT is about 7% (of course also but buy/sell at the right time)
i will prefer to long ppty and fry equities? no?
So far property gains has been more certain than stocks.
Also the leverage factor.
But I also think many don't consider the cost-side of holding property.
eg agent & maintenance fees, Prop Tax, depreciation/reno, Bank loan and even the non-rental period inbetw tenants.
Stock are paper-assets (cons) but they are cleaner to calculate true gains and no messy agent/repair issues to contend with.
But best is a combo strategy of stocks and properties to keep ahead of the different cycles.
How many CEOs of MNCs at 33 can there be? 1 in a million? What happens to the remaining 999,999?
In the local/china system. all kids go uni, find safe mid-level management job....
Can't say which system is better.:beats-me-man:
Definitely Aust system better. I work $17 an hour as a McDonald cashier while doing my undergrad studies there. Food is more ex but i can eat 3 value meals with every 1 hour i work. In Singapore, if you work 1 hour as a cashier, how many value meals can you eat?
I have a friend (Aussies) there working as a Harvey Norman sales promoter (year 12 education only, similar to O'lvls , father/mother not rich, not commission based but fixed salary) that can afford holiday that are beyond my means ( 1.5 months holiday to Korean/Japan/Singapore) , buy 10 pairs of shoes in Tokyo alone, baggage overweight by 30kg due to shopping also not bothered).
Another got a medicine degree from Uni Melbourne but forgo a career as a doctor to start up a car wash business (with 15k cash) that after 1 yr, made more money than if he would as a doctor of a few years experience. Who cares if 1 out of a million be CEO if i can be 999,999 cashiers out there and earn a living better than grads here in Singapore?
Life is less hectic, able to enjoy life more as less pressure. Kids can grow up knowing that they can choose a career in whatever field and able to make a living unlike Singapore where if you are not in medicine, accounting, finance and law (just naming a few examples) you're s***ed in life unless you choose to do the meaningless non value adding sales job or jobs that preys on the naivety of Singaporeans like wedding photographers, tuition teacher, early childhood teacher etc.
As you can see, i'm rather bitter about the system we have in place in Singapore. "Earn more" than some of my friends in Aust but purchasing power way below them.
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 11:31
Aussie has natural resources, but is finite. And they over-spend so naturally can enjoy life. But 好景不常.
There should be a balance.
.... you're s***ed in life unless you choose to do the meaningless non value adding sales job or jobs that preys on the naivety of Singaporeans like wedding photographers, tuition teacher, early childhood teacher etc.
.....
Actually not just Singapore. You will find such services that prey on naivety and the nouveaux riches well sought after in China.
...........unless you choose to do the meaningless non value adding sales job or jobs that preys on the naivety of Singaporeans like wedding photographers, tuition teacher, early childhood teacher etc.
think you have offended a lot of people.
devilplate
24-10-11, 11:51
can Singapore follow Oz system anot?:rolleyes:
no wonder so many wana migrate to Oz.....so easy life....Oz ppl usually dun save much....just depend on govt upon retirement:D
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 11:55
can Singapore follow Oz system anot?:rolleyes:
no wonder so many wana migrate to Oz.....so easy life....Oz ppl usually dun save much....just depend on govt upon retirement:D
Aussie is selling its minerals to mainland Chinese, what if no more minerals? I think Aussie government also knows it is not sustainable.
devilplate
24-10-11, 12:32
17/hr at mac, one mth easily 2.7k+ for FUll timer.:scared-1: :beats-me-man:
How can the biz owner afford to pay their worker since they only charge 7buck for a value meal? Rental vy cheap there?
I was told a fresh grad entry chef pays only 3k wor:confused:
Gd and bad, in oz, all the things u goto diy......ppl reno their hse on their own etc
Here, i pay only 10buck to wash and vacuum my car;)
17/hr at mac, one mth easily 2.7k+ for FUll timer.:scared-1: :beats-me-man:
.............
a quick google search will correct Worsty's figures. He is prone to exageration, just like our favourite commie ;).
No maid in Oz.... everything own self do....:banghead:
a quick google search will correct Worsty's figures. He is prone to exageration, just like our favourite commie ;).
How it is that i make up the numbers if i worked at those wages back in 2006? Just because the Singapore government is not willing to grant those wages to its citizen doesn't mean other countries can't do it. Companies and small proprietors can definitely offer higher wages if rental (aka government with their hold on all the GLCs) is maintained at a decent rate and not charged at ever increasing sky high rentals.
I have also worked as a TVB cable promoter with a sandwich board hanging round my neck and walking up and down the 2 streets of Chinatown. This is at a rate of $15 an hour.
a quick google search will correct Worsty's figures. He is prone to exageration, just like our favourite commie ;).
this website interesting, Worsty might be right afterall.
http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Employer=McDonald%27s_Restaurants_Ltd./Hourly_Rate
he is at the top of the food chain for hourly worker.:scared-5:. Real foreign talent in Oz.
think you have offended a lot of people.
That doesn't mean what i said isn't true. Ask yourself truthfully if i make any sense. Granted, they have the foresight to jump into those lines to make a ton from others and they should be commended for taking such opportunities due to policies made in the past that affected a generation of Singaporeans.
Aussie has natural resources, but is finite. And they over-spend so naturally can enjoy life. But 好景不常.
There should be a balance.
The balance was there until mid 2000s? Singapore is a changed country after my grad studies.
this website interesting, Worsty might be right afterall.
http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Employer=McDonald%27s_Restaurants_Ltd./Hourly_Rate
he is at the top of the food chain for hourly worker.:scared-5:. Real foreign talent in Oz.
The lower range is for people under the age of 18. Once you hit 18, you move to another pay scale. This goes for most service jobs if i'm not wrong. So they tend to hire students below 18 and release a couple of them once they hit 18 usually those that aren't willing to work night shift.
One of the better paying customer service job (besides the world's oldest occupation) is being a sales girl at designer boutiques over at Chapel Street (their Orchard road). My housemate's gf got i think $25-30 an hour? (this one is a bit of a guess since i can't really remember but i know it's much higher than my part time job in McDonalds and i was envious not being a chiobu to get such a job)
The lower range is for people under the age of 18. Once you hit 18, you move to another pay scale. This goes for most service jobs if i'm not wrong. So they tend to hire students below 18 and release a couple of them once they hit 18 usually those that aren't willing to work night shift.
One of the better paying customer service job (besides the world's oldest occupation) is being a sales girl at designer boutiques over at Chapel Street (their Orchard road). My housemate's gf got i think $25-30 an hour? (this one is a bit of a guess since i can't really remember but i know it's much higher than my part time job in McDonalds and i was envious not being a chiobu to get such a job)
thanks for the information. I stand corrected. :ashamed1:.
but further points have to be brought. cannot just tell half story.
Is there any limit to the number of hours worked for part-timers? is the income deducted at source, or you pay income tax at the end of the year.
if not, many people who didnt do their homework would migrate to Australia.
and there must be reasons why you come back to Singapore if conditions in Australia are so much better over there.
thanks for the information. I stand corrected. :ashamed1:.
but further points have to be brought. cannot just tell half story.
Is there any limit to the number of hours worked for part-timers? is the income deducted at source, or you pay income tax at the end of the year.
if not, many people who didnt do their homework would migrate to Australia.
and there must be reasons why you come back to Singapore if conditions in Australia are so much better over there.
Thanks for your reply.
Most Singaporeans who have never studied overseas and/or attempted to work as a part timer overseas wouldn't have believe those figures i quoted either. It's a forum, we share what we know and learn from one another. There are many things that were shared in other threads here that i wouldn't have known either.
As students, we're not allowed to work beyond x number of hours a month. (I think 20-25 hours? Can't remember) No such restrictions on people on work permits, PR, citizens etc. Can't work too much as well since i need to go for lectures, music festivals, raves etc.
Most students will work the max 20-25 hours at the legal salary, $17 for McDonalds for me, then work as a waiter or kitchen helper at Chinatown for maybe $8 an hour, way below the minimum wages and it's a hash hash affair thing as you are violating the student visa. I get paid, he gets a cheap employee.
Income tax wise, i'm not too sure about at source or deferred. First 6000(?) is tax free, and i don't work enough hours to get pass those limit. The wages at Chinatown is tax free for obvious reasons mentioned above. In any case, i work only when i have really bad days at Crown.
It's harder to get PR now in Australia. Getting harder every year. I can barely make it this work year even having had my degree done there and at a course and occupation that is/was in demand there. So even if you want to migrate, it's not that easy unless you have money ($1 million?) to start a business there, or have done your uni studies there with the intention to stay there permanently.
I came back for my support group as they are all mostly based here (Family, friends and my gf). GF was bonded here in Singapore and couldn't join me. Things didn't work out between us in the end but i've decided to stay put here instead of going back since this is my home.
Forgot to add,
Basically, rich people (includes businessman, property investors ie most of you here etc) will prefer Singapore whereas lower and middle income people will tend to prefer Australia (if they have been exposed to those lifestyle). Different priorities of the ruling party afterall.
Enough of my 'ranting'. Sorry for boring you all! Back to property discussion please unless others are willing to discuss more with what was written earlier.
UK is the same ... welfare state
Forgot to add,
Basically, rich people (includes businessman, property investors ie most of you here etc) will prefer Singapore whereas lower and middle income people will tend to prefer Australia (if they have been exposed to those lifestyle). Different priorities of the ruling party afterall.
Enough of my 'ranting'. Sorry for boring you all! Back to property discussion please unless others are willing to discuss more with what was written earlier.
summary:-
rich people: stay in singapore, pay low taxes, can have maid.
not so rich people: go Oz, higher pay, less work, govt take care of retirement.....
17/hr at mac, one mth easily 2.7k+ for FUll timer.:scared-1: :beats-me-man:
How can the biz owner afford to pay their worker since they only charge 7buck for a value meal? Rental vy cheap there?
I was told a fresh grad entry chef pays only 3k wor:confused:
Gd and bad, in oz, all the things u goto diy......ppl reno their hse on their own etc
Here, i pay only 10buck to wash and vacuum my car;)
i wash and vacuum car myself.. i have low purchasing power :(
How it is that i make up the numbers if i worked at those wages back in 2006? Just because the Singapore government is not willing to grant those wages to its citizen doesn't mean other countries can't do it. Companies and small proprietors can definitely offer higher wages if rental (aka government with their hold on all the GLCs) is maintained at a decent rate and not charged at ever increasing sky high rentals.
I have also worked as a TVB cable promoter with a sandwich board hanging round my neck and walking up and down the 2 streets of Chinatown. This is at a rate of $15 an hour.
the difference is jobs that no one wants to do are paid higher, simple demand and supply. in Spore jobs that no one wants to do? no problem open floodgates to economic refugees of the world to come in. :)
but in the long run which society has greater social character and resilience and does not need constant propaganda from the ruling govt to artifically foster integration is very clear. ;)
the difference between a more enlightened society and a lesser one is how it treats its weakest economic members of society. In Spore, it is as good as exploitation.
The balance was there until mid 2000s? Singapore is a changed country after my grad studies.
rise of reign of the dragon prince mah ~ :o
If everyone earn 30k per month, who is rich?
If everyone earn 2k per month, who is poor?
summary:-
rich people: stay in singapore, pay low taxes, can have maid.
not so rich people: go Oz, higher pay, less work, govt take care of retirement.....
Rich people when retired may prefer more time in oz for the better living environment.
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 17:08
rise of reign of the dragon prince mah ~ :o
小李飞刀, 刀刀夺魂 ;)
Would have gone up by at least 150 folds since 80s depending on location and FH.
Not sure whether is it freehold or not but I thought all terrace house are FH. It is located somewhere in Hougang. My father rented the whole unit out. At that time, $70k was quite a lot, so my father sold it away, after that the ppty started to pick up.:banghead: sign.....:scared-3:
Like me, I also missed the gem in Bishan. Sold my 5rm HDB flat about 12 yrs ago.:banghead: Sign... money not yours means not yours.:scared-3:
Gd and bad, in oz, all the things u goto diy......ppl reno their hse on their own etc
Here, i pay only 10buck to wash and vacuum my car;)
$10 bucks to wash and vacuum a car but $70,000+ for a COE....
If everyone earn 30k per month, who is rich?
If everyone earn 2k per month, who is poor?
The scenarios that you have quoted are not possible even in 100% socialist and communist country. The simple fact is, there are people out there that are picking up cans from dustbins here in Singapore at 3-4am trying to earn enough for their meals and rental (if they even have a roof over their head) and then there are people out there losing tens of billions of dollars without blinking.
How many welfare homes for the aged can be built and maintained with those amounts? How about using some of those monies for free medical care for people over 65-70?
devilplate
24-10-11, 18:21
$10 bucks to wash and vacuum a car but $70,000+ for a COE....
A car worth less den a piece of paper:D
devilplate
24-10-11, 18:22
The scenarios that you have quoted are not possible even in 100% socialist and communist country. The simple fact is, there are people out there that are picking up cans from dustbins here in Singapore at 3-4am trying to earn enough for their meals and rental (if they even have a roof over their head) and then there are people out there losing tens of billions of dollars without blinking.
How many welfare homes for the aged can be built and maintained with those amounts? How about using some of those monies for free medical care for people over 65-70?
How about those kids in south africa
Rich people when retired may prefer more time in oz for the better living environment.
True that too. But the older generation tend to prefer to retire in places more culturally suited to their taste.
My mum and dad for example, could have retired in Aust if they so wishes except that they prefer being able to order their food in dialects, singlish, play a round of mahjong whenever they want, catch korean / hong kong / taiwanese drama series without difficulty etc. Not that they're rich la but just using as an example.
The younger generation now (and retiring in the future) especially those that embrace the lifestyle overseas during their undergrad studies won't have such issues.
How about those kids in south africa
South Africa is a rich country btw. I think you meant the other parts of Africa like Somalia, Togo etc.
Those kids in Africa should primary, be taken care of by their government. Citizens overseas can donate or adopt (financially as in for their education not real adopt adopt etc)a child to try to improve the situation but unless the government step up, it'll be decades before things improves.
Firstly, the taxation laws in place there is killing their economy. With such ridiculous rates, which multinationals are going to set up shop there and in turn, prosper the country?
Also, for countries with resources (like oil and diamonds..yes yes i know it's just carbon but there are enough people out there that are willing to blow tens of thousands on it), it's greed of the local government and the corrupt politicians, pocketing a share of their petroleum riches, rather than looking for ways to invest in their country's long-term prosperity. The governments aren't dependent on income taxes and therefore don't have to do what the citizens want.
In any case, i'm trying to say that the government here could and should have spent the monies lost on the less fortunate or aged that have contributed much to the success of this nation. The accumulated sum is what that generation have helped to gain and surely deserve a little of that in their twilight years. I'm unsure why you brought in another country into the discussion. Maybe i'm missing something here.
Rich people when retired may prefer more time in oz for the better living environment.
IMHO, the lower income skilled workers are better off in Australia then Singapore. If you are a cook, mechanic, hairdresser.... etc, compared to Singapore you can live in double the comfort with half the effort. If you want to earn a couple more extra bucks, you can put in OT bcoz most Australians value free time over the extra pay.
Education is more holistic with emphasis on sports and the arts. Just bcoz it is more relaxed doesn't mean it is of lower quality. Kids are allowed to develop properly and encouraged to pursue their passion, private tuition is unheard of. At the end of the day, a degree is a degree, if there is an easier way to get there, why do we take the diificult way. In Singapore, we are killing the joy of learning... I wonder how we'll actually do if tuition was banned in Singapore.
Rich people when retired may prefer more time in oz for the better living environment.
Can spend more time as visitor (since don't have to work).... not as citizen (don't have to pay tax):D
I'm sorry but aus has this "state" is purely because of their resources. Easy job in mining everywhere. No education redneck making 200k miner stories everywhere. in "normal" work ppl are so laid back it's a pain to do any business with them. Every one is enjoying life. True u dun need to work hard at all. That's the reason simple manual labor can pay reasonably high because no one wants to work. Hope it can last for them :cool:
True that too. But the older generation tend to prefer to retire in places more culturally suited to their taste.
My mum and dad for example, could have retired in Aust if they so wishes except that they prefer being able to order their food in dialects, singlish, play a round of mahjong whenever they want, catch korean / hong kong / taiwanese drama series without difficulty etc. Not that they're rich la but just using as an example.
The younger generation now (and retiring in the future) especially those that embrace the lifestyle overseas during their undergrad studies won't have such issues.
My husband planned to migrate to Canada when we just got married but I prefer Singapore. I have my relatives and friends here and I also love Singapore hawker centre food. Once we went to USA for 3 months only (he went there for training) and I had already missed Singapore food so badly. When I came back to Singapore, immediately I went round searching for fried kway Teow, prawn noodles, laksa, satay etc, "yummy yummy" which you couldn't find all these food in western country. I love the weather here also because need not prepare for "4 seasons" clothing.
"One of four who bought property in Year 2011 will make money. "
Let's come back 5 years to see whether the statement is correct.
Thanks,
Richard
devilplate
24-10-11, 22:11
My husband planned to migrate to Canada when we just got married but I prefer Singapore. I have my relatives and friends here and I also love Singapore hawker centre food. Once we went to USA for 3 months only (he went there for training) and I had already missed Singapore food so badly. When I came back to Singapore, immediately I went round searching for fried kway Teow, prawn noodles, laksa, satay etc, "yummy yummy" which you couldn't find all these food in western country. I love the weather here also because need not prepare for "4 seasons" clothing.
Agree on the food
But hor i am vy surprised u prefer sg weather
buttercarp
24-10-11, 22:16
"One of four who bought property in Year 2011 will make money. "
Let's come back 5 years to see whether the statement is correct.
Thanks,
Richard
Why you say 1 of 4 only?
Why not all?
Agree on the food
But hor i am vy surprised u prefer sg weather
Although, i am a born and bred Singaporean, I don't seem to crave for singapore food when overseas, as I don't usually patronize hawker centre , but eat home cook food.
However, I also like Sg weather although I complain alot about it.
When abroad in the wintery cold, I really appreciate SG climate.
Here we can just go out in shorts, T shirt and slippers.
LOL .....now i remembered during a Korean trip in Dec when we had to walk 500m from hotel to hot spring....one tour member thought it was just a short walk, so he wore slippers and shorts and T shirt and he was freezing by the time he reached the hot spring!
If my HK and French friends are selling, you can guess what is happening in the market now. They both have made great profit in the property market.
Something like bought at S$400K- and sold at S$800K++.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. It is rude to say 3 out of 4 who bought in Year 2011 will NOT make money. But since you insist ... Your landed will be ok, you are one of the four. Cheers!
Why you say 1 of 4 only?
Why not all?
This is what the article claims.
You can re-read the article again on the first page. It is the first line.
Cheers.
buttercarp
24-10-11, 22:31
If my HK and French friends are selling, you can guess what is happening in the market now. They both have made great profit in the property market.
Something like bought at S$400K- and sold at S$800K++.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. It is rude to say 3 out of 4 who bought in Year 2011 will NOT make money. But since you insist ... Your landed will be ok, you are one of the four. Cheers!
As long as not lose money, it is ok.
Landed is to stay, not for investment, so no issue about that.
Just hope interest rate for housing loan will remain low.
buttercarp
24-10-11, 22:39
This is what the article claims.
You can re-read the article again on the first page. It is the first line.
Cheers.
The article says "An old friend in the real estate business once estimated that only one in four investors here made any money out of investing in property."
It did not specify when you bought it.
Richwang said 1 in 4 who bought property in "2011"....
Geylang OKT
24-10-11, 22:41
Many of my friends and customers have already sold their properties. They bought their properties around 1996 to 2004 and have cashed out while the going is still good. :D :D :D
The article says "An old friend in the real estate business once estimated that only one in four investors here made any money out of investing in property."
It did not specify when you bought it.
Richwang said 1 in 4 who bought property in "2011"....
If no period is mentioned it can be inferred that it has to be over a period of time at any one time 1 in 4 make money, so 2011 is no exception.
If my HK and French friends are selling, you can guess what is happening in the market now. They both have made great profit in the property market.
Something like bought at S$400K- and sold at S$800K++.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. It is rude to say 3 out of 4 who bought in Year 2011 will NOT make money. But since you insist ... Your landed will be ok, you are one of the four. Cheers!
Yep... many are paring down their holdings.
those that bought in 2011 can only do so in 2015 without unnecessary loss. I am surprised that developers can still move units at >$1300psf in OCR.
phantom_opera
24-10-11, 23:08
if you ask those who buy ATT, you will get the opposite sentiment lol ...
if you ask those who buy ATT, you will get the opposite sentiment lol ...
Previously one forummer had summed up the buying pattern in Singapore which I thought was quite apt .... "first, buy on sentiment than justify later with intellect".
Singaporeans tend to be emotional about property.;)
it all boils down to your fear of correction vs your fear of inflation. Correspondingly, find the balance and adjust your portfolio accordingly.
If my HK and French friends are selling, you can guess what is happening in the market now. They both have made great profit in the property market.
Something like bought at S$400K- and sold at S$800K++.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. It is rude to say 3 out of 4 who bought in Year 2011 will NOT make money. But since you insist ... Your landed will be ok, you are one of the four. Cheers!
arent the foreigners here to buy props for ownstay? oops,hw come turn out to be in same league props flip game??:D
Yep... many are paring down their holdings.
those that bought in 2011 can only do so in 2015 without unnecessary loss. I am surprised that developers can still move units at >$1300psf in OCR.Do not be surprised. I also don't understand but no need to understand. Just know! Thomson G already commanding ave $1400psf. As many units launched recently are small 1 bedder or 2 bedder, psf will naturally be higher. Bigger units like 3 or 4 bedders cannot command that sort of psf lah.
Agree on the food
But hor i am vy surprised u prefer sg weather
I prefer SG weather because it has no four seasons. Need not fill my cupboards with thick clothing. During winter time, it will be very cold, need to wear lots of thick clothing, can be very cumbersome especially when you go out and need to visit the toilet.
During summer time, too hot and too dry, skin might crack, need to take very good care of it.
In Singapore, though during certain months, it is hot but still bearable. Even during raining day, also don't need to wear thick clothing unless it rains for months, then maybe just need a light sweater will do.
I'm a lazy type of people, never apply any mosturizer on my skin, just some sunblock on my face will do and also no cosmetics, save all these money to buy ppty loh, haha, just kidding.:cool:
Once a while, go overseas to experience their cold weather also not a bad idea. :D
Could it be that they have waited long enough to break even and cash out.
Many of my friends and customers have already sold their properties. They bought their properties around 1996 to 2004 and have cashed out while the going is still good. :D :D :D
Could it be that they have waited long enough to break even and cash out.Usually those who've waited for more than 10 or 15 years are not cashing out because of their investment. Its more like upgrade or downgrade. :spliff:
I prefer SG weather because it has no four seasons. :D
if only singapore's weather is not so humid. a bit dry and drop a few degree would be nice.:)
if only singapore's weather is not so humid. a bit dry and drop a few degree would be nice.:)Dec and Jan weather is preferred... cool and nice... more humid! :o
Retiring and need cash to sustain lifestyle.
Usually those who've waited for more than 10 or 15 years are not cashing out because of their investment. Its more like upgrade or downgrade. :spliff:
Retiring and need cash to sustain lifestyle.Yup yup.... that is certainly an option if his/her children/child are not looking after them properly! Anyway, maybe he/she wants to spend more than what his/her kids are giving! :D
Anyone going to the Iproperty.com expo this weekend at MBS?
Anyone going to the Iproperty.com expo this weekend at MBS?
what will they be showcasing at the expo?
what will they be showcasing at the expo?Sell you properties in Greece? :p
Not so bad lah, just Spanish and Italian properties.
Jonathan0503
25-10-11, 23:05
Anyone going to the Iproperty.com expo this weekend at MBS?
I thinking of going
what will they be showcasing at the expo?
http://www.iproperty.com/expo/2011/expo_SG_CC1011_Exhibition.aspx#exhibition
will be there
Sell you properties in Greece? :p
Or Bangkok?:D
http://www.iproperty.com/expo/2011/expo_SG_CC1011_Exhibition.aspx#exhibition
will be there
Laguna, looks pretty interesting. What's the registration fee?
Laguna, looks pretty interesting. What's the registration fee?
there is online registration
FOC...we all Singaporean love FOC
but parking is so ex there
there is online registration
FOC...we all Singaporean love FOC
but parking is so ex there
Heh. Ok, see if can take some time off. I suppose visitor can walk in and register on the spot.
Will see what they have to say. Can we go to the Agent's talk in the morning too if we are not real estate agent?
Jonathan0503
26-10-11, 10:47
there is online registration
FOC...we all Singaporean love FOC
but parking is so ex there
Thought visitors of the expo can get $6 flat parking fee for whole day?
Did you see an * next to it. May have to purhcase a property in order to get that $6 off. Will park at my condo and walk over.
Thought visitors of the expo can get $6 flat parking fee for whole day?
devilplate
26-10-11, 10:57
Did you see an * next to it. May have to purhcase a property in order to get that $6 off. Will park at my condo and walk over.
ur condo rented out? how come u r allowed to park? tot only reisdents/tenants staying there can park only?:confused:
Did you see an * next to it. May have to purhcase a property in order to get that $6 off. Will park at my condo and walk over.
Wah.... spend $2million get $6 off... genius
There are too many vacant lots even at night. Got a label. :)
ur condo rented out? how come u r allowed to park? tot only reisdents/tenants staying there can park only?:confused:
devilplate
26-10-11, 11:07
There are too many vacant lots even at night. Got a label. :)
isit gd or bad?
usually by laws dun allowed owners who rent out their units to have car label
There are too many vacant lots even at night. Got a label. :)
You're in the MC?
Lease out lots to park to build up sinking funds and reduce maintenance fund. Agreed at AGM.
isit gd or bad?
usually by laws dun allowed owners who rent out their units to have car label
devilplate
26-10-11, 11:12
Lease out lots to park to build up sinking funds and reduce maintenance fund. Agreed at AGM.
so u actually pay to get the car label?
Lease out to non-residents given the shortage of carpark in the area. Market street carpark already gone.
so u actually pay to get the car label?
devilplate
26-10-11, 11:17
Lease out to non-residents given the shortage of carpark in the area. Market street carpark already gone.
so u get it foc:cool:
but isit gd or bad for mcst to allow non-staying owners to get car label?
i wud tot for ur case, it will be good for owners who not staying there to give up their label and rent it out instead since there is gd demand for it?
ur condo allows u to use the facilities too?
So what's the season parking fee per month?
For those who can read Chinese, here we go. The property price drop is no longer a prediction, IT IS HERE!
http://www.zaobao.com.sg/cz/cz111025_001.shtml
浦东中海御景熙岸从每平方米2万3000元降至1万7000元（人民币，下同，约3385新元），参与团购活动者甚至可以买到每平方米1万6000万元； 龙湖郦城则从第一期约1万7000元每平方米直降到1万4000万元。两者降幅高达一成多到两成多，令早期购买业主大受刺激。
For the local English newspaper writer, he can only carefully tell the "old" story. Who dares to say in the newspaper "Only one out of four buying property in Year 2011 Make money"? Readers should be smart enough to know "you are warned": (Three out of Four buying property in Year 2011 will NOT make money).
By the way, my HK and French friends are NOT flippers, they make decision with common sense: when East Coast were selling at S$400K- in Year 2005, buying is better than renting. Now he has just sold the property at S$800K+ and RENTING now.
It is simply Math.
Thanks,
Richard
We have to be fair to our tenants and residents. $200++.
so u get it foc:cool:
but isit gd or bad for mcst to allow non-staying owners to get car label?
i wud tot for ur case, it will be good for owners who not staying there to give up their label and rent it out instead since there is gd demand for it?
ur condo allows u to use the facilities too?
It's all very easy to say the correction will come. The real challenge is can they put a figure to what will the price levels look like during the correction, for prime, outskirts and suburbia. This is my guess.. Prime 1500-2000psf, outskirts 1000-1300psf, far away suburbia 800-900psf. My numbers here doesn't cover the few specific projects that hahave tonnes of luxurious fittings and settings built into the development. And they're more for brand new development.
So no point listening to these "expert opinion" saying a correction is coming. There's no value add. Make a reasonable projection at least. Even if they get it wrong, I would applaud them for having taken a firm view. Fence sitters are the biggest timer wasters that give you mmotherhood and apple pie statements.
devilplate
26-10-11, 11:36
when u wana sell, ask urself how much u expect the px to drop......den factor in the overheads of selling and buying again....isit worth it:2cents:
i tink the biggest winner is agts and the GOVT:D :D :D
It's all very easy to say the correction will come. The real challenge is can they put a figure to what will the price levels look like during the correction, for prime, outskirts and suburbia. This is my guess.. Prime 1500-2000psf, outskirts 1000-1300psf, far away suburbia 800-900psf. My numbers here doesn't cover the few specific projects that hahave tonnes of luxurious fittings and settings built into the development. And they're more for brand new development.
So no point listening to these "expert opinion" saying a correction is coming. There's no value add. Make a reasonable projection at least. Even if they get it wrong, I would applaud them for having taken a firm view. Fence sitters are the biggest timer wasters that give you mmotherhood and apple pie statements. well said, TCSS many, just need to speak well, many of forumers also can be experts on their panel of speakers...:D
It's all very easy to say the correction will come. The real challenge is can they put a figure to what will the price levels look like during the correction, for prime, outskirts and suburbia. This is my guess.. Prime 1500-2000psf, outskirts 1000-1300psf, far away suburbia 800-900psf. My numbers here doesn't cover the few specific projects that hahave tonnes of luxurious fittings and settings built into the development. And they're more for brand new development.
So no point listening to these "expert opinion" saying a correction is coming. There's no value add. Make a reasonable projection at least. Even if they get it wrong, I would applaud them for having taken a firm view. Fence sitters are the biggest timer wasters that give you mmotherhood and apple pie statements.
devilplate
26-10-11, 11:40
It's all very easy to say the correction will come. The real challenge is can they put a figure to what will the price levels look like during the correction, for prime, outskirts and suburbia.
i wud tot the real challenge is to put a date when the px will starts to drop?
Alan Shearer
26-10-11, 11:42
Correction will not come in the next five years.
During the NO correction in 2012 to 2017
2500 - 6000 prime
others 1250 - 2500
Sticks 1000 - 1250
Never easy as fear of people is relative and varies from people's dimension which is very unpredictable notwithstanding the other complex factors. ESM GCT said that garment intervention will change all the prediction of property market.
i wud tot the real challenge is to put a date when the px will starts to drop?
Carparking problem in this area will ease a little bit when DTL 1 is operational in 2013. Looking forward to it as it may appreciate the property. :)
so u get it foc:cool:
but isit gd or bad for mcst to allow non-staying owners to get car label?
i wud tot for ur case, it will be good for owners who not staying there to give up their label and rent it out instead since there is gd demand for it?
ur condo allows u to use the facilities too?
Thought visitors of the expo can get $6 flat parking fee for whole day?
Reply from iProperty
Yes you will entitle to get $6 parking at MBS by visiting this event, and yes we do have only limit passes so give.
Please come early to make sure u have it.
We open at 10am-7pm.
Have you check if we can attend the session for agent as it is from 10-12noon?
Reply from iProperty
Yes you will entitle to get $6 parking at MBS by visiting this event, and yes we do have only limit passes so give.
Please come early to make sure u have it.
We open at 10am-7pm.
Lease out lots to park to build up sinking funds and reduce maintenance fund. Agreed at AGM.
In general, for condo residents, how many cars are allowed to park inside the condo and does the resident needs to pay the parking fee for the 2nd car.
Have you check if we can attend the session for agent as it is from 10-12noon?
No,
u can write to them direct
[email protected]
i wud tot the real challenge is to put a date when the px will starts to drop?
If they can even predict the date, then they are super marksman. I will be very impressed if they can even predict the price levels. I think that's already an achievement. I'm not so demanding heh.
if only singapore's weather is not so humid. a bit dry and drop a few degree would be nice.:)
Agree, but unfortunately this is beyond our control. Maybe next time, people might come up with an idea how to control the weather to our satisfaction. Cheers.:cheers4:
Actually Singapore location not bad already. No Tsunami, no typhoon, no earthquake, no "dry ice" dropping from the sky. Only last yr and this yr Singapore "siao" already, serious flood at various areas. But again 没有十全十美的。
希望全世界都太平!!:cheers1:
No,
u can write to them direct
[email protected]
Topics & speakers are quite interesting. Trying understand how agents think.
Agree, but unfortunately this is beyond our control. Maybe next time, people might come up with an idea how to control the weather to our satisfaction. Cheers.:cheers4:
Actually Singapore location not bad already. No Tsunami, no typhoon, no earthquake, no "dry ice" dropping from the sky. Only last yr and this yr Singapore "siao" already, serious flood at various areas. But again 没有十全十美的。
希望全世界都太平!!:cheers1:
如果全世界都太平的话， 新加坡就死巧巧了！
如果全世界都太平的话， 新加坡就死巧巧了！
:confused: You mean must have wars and disasters, then S'pore can be prosperous?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.