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ikan bilis
26-10-11, 18:59
very soon everyone will be very depressed inside all the cramped 4-wall pigeon holes... scary... :scared-3: :banghead:
psf price also not much difference from my 10yr old near mrt condo (but mine ulu ulu location)... :beats-me-man:

http://www.trivelis.com.sg/downloads/3Room.pdf

samuelk
26-10-11, 19:23
The design seems rather squarish and is easy to place furnture. The kitchen looks relatively ok.

But base on physical size, I guess every one now is building MM. At 600+ sq ft, seems rather ok then say a MM of 300+ sqFt. But thats my humble opinion.

The older flats does seems large if you were to compare with this. I guess there is upside potential for price increase for older HDB.:D

ysyap
26-10-11, 19:25
Its still a long way for hdb to catch up condo lah.... this floor plan for 3 rm is about 650 sqft which is a decent 2 bedder private condo size. At least hdb still maintain 100 - 110sqm for a 5rm flat. Not too bad lah. Next time, big condos will be the hottest property coz no more in market... LOL! ;)

kane
26-10-11, 19:47
Just saw it on the news. Looks like there's a big turnout at tthe showroom.

ysyap
26-10-11, 19:51
It is not a surprise for huge turn out as Singaporeans generally love to join in the crowd. Anyway, the day when there is a small turn out is the day when KBW can proudly declare that he has cleared the huge backlog left behind by his predecessor. He is working really hard and based on the projected figures, that backlog may only be cleared by end of next year, but by then there would be new demands which do not require the same rate of building and pushing out launches like what is happening currently! Things will be more stable and balanced then! :cheers1:

azeoprop
26-10-11, 20:16
Its still a long way for hdb to catch up condo lah.... this floor plan for 3 rm is about 650 sqft which is a decent 2 bedder private condo size. At least hdb still maintain 100 - 110sqm for a 5rm flat. Not too bad lah. Next time, big condos will be the hottest property coz no more in market... LOL! ;)

Welcome to Minton... :p

ikan bilis
26-10-11, 20:24
i refuse to stay in a hdb that....
... i have difficulties to close/open the door when i'm inside the toilet.... :scared-3:

(toilet door is not sliding door, the floorplans do not even want to show the doors and beds)

teddybear
26-10-11, 21:05
How can 2 bedders at 650 sqft be decent? Going by traditional size (condos built between 1997-2007), 2 bedders are usually of size about 850-950 sqft. 3 bedders usually 1100-1300 sqft.


Its still a long way for hdb to catch up condo lah.... this floor plan for 3 rm is about 650 sqft which is a decent 2 bedder private condo size. At least hdb still maintain 100 - 110sqm for a 5rm flat. Not too bad lah. Next time, big condos will be the hottest property coz no more in market... LOL! ;)

evergreen
26-10-11, 21:10
Great layout. All the "qi" goes straight into the toilet.

devilplate
26-10-11, 21:34
6xxsqft for 3rm flat vy common wat....u check out all the older resale 3rm flat....all range 650-720sqft

This layout ok leh....quite like it....much better den many condo design

kane
26-10-11, 21:49
Type A2a has the most sensible layout and it doesn't have a gigantic air con ledge plus no balcony.

august
26-10-11, 21:50
standard 3rm bto hdb flats are 68 sqm size.
this one is 60 sqm size.... very sneaky nowadays, this is the problem with dbss when hdb passes the buck to private developer. Squeeze the size, higher psf, sell more units.

anyway caveat emptor.

august
26-10-11, 21:58
took a look at at sim lian's centrale 8 floor plan. Wah lao their 3br also 61 sqm in size LOL.

seriously it cannot be premium when buyers are buying smaller sized units than normal BTO flats. :tongue3:

kane
26-10-11, 21:58
People like condo like finishing but don't want to pay that much. Frankly at that sort of quantum, I much rather go for EC if I was eligible.

yjcai
26-10-11, 22:03
DBSS is a super bad buy nowadays.
Buying a DBSS is the same as buying a condo.
Is the maintainence cost like a condo?
The perception is still DBSS is not private by a lot of people. Wait till dbss property sees 25% property drop?
Inflation comes high psf squeeze size.
If deflation comes, will they be as generous?

kane
26-10-11, 22:07
DBSS is a super bad buy nowadays.
Buying a DBSS is the same as buying a condo.
Is the maintainence cost like a condo?
The perception is still DBSS is not private by a lot of people. Wait till dbss property sees 25% property drop?
Inflation comes high psf squeeze size.
If deflation comes, will they be as generous?

The DBSS projects in tpy, bishan and amk were all pretty decent. But the latest few is quite poor value for the money you're paying.

yjcai
26-10-11, 22:08
People like condo like finishing but don't want to pay that much. Frankly at that sort of quantum, I much rather go for EC if I was eligible.

Perception of majority group of people that view DBSS as HDB when times are good.

Clementi Ave 6 everyday jam, not exactly next to MRT. The 4 rooms premium starts higher than centrale8. Why people never boycott the developer? I don't understand. Prices of D5 HDB is on par with queenstown hey look. I don't understand.

teddybear
26-10-11, 22:09
According to Feng Shui, this layout will condemn that residents to being poor because cannot accumulate money with main entrance having to pass kitchen (& worse still even a toilet first!) first before even reaching the living room! :doh:


6xxsqft for 3rm flat vy common wat....u check out all the older resale 3rm flat....all range 650-720sqft

This layout ok leh....quite like it....much better den many condo design

yjcai
26-10-11, 22:10
The DBSS projects in tpy, bishan and amk were all pretty decent. But the latest few is quite poor value for the money you're paying.

Yes I agree, the peak at tpy in 2009 is very worth it.

yjcai
26-10-11, 22:12
According to Feng Shui, this layout will condemn that residents to being poor because cannot accumulate money with main entrance having to pass kitchen (& worse still even a toilet first!) first before even reaching the living room! :doh:

Oh how can fengshui be bad. 888 units fa fa fa to max.
People kp size but they forgot to kp price.

kane
26-10-11, 22:19
Perception of majority group of people that view DBSS as HDB when times are good.

Clementi Ave 6 everyday jam, not exactly next to MRT. The 4 rooms premium starts higher than centrale8. Why people never boycott the developer? I don't understand. Prices of D5 HDB is on par with queenstown hey look. I don't understand.

Cos in people's mind, clementi is matured estate. So they queue up eagerly with their cheques. And besides, clementi hasn't seen any mass market project for a while. Those hundred trees and parc are a little too atas for the masses.

Allthepies
26-10-11, 22:43
Cos in people's mind, clementi is matured estate. So they queue up eagerly with their cheques. And besides, clementi hasn't seen any mass market project for a while. Those hundred trees and parc are a little too atas for the masses.

Watch out for the upcoming pc plot, further from clement mrt than this dbss site but most probably double the asking psf:D those who buy now huat liao

ikan bilis
26-10-11, 22:49
for that stretch of mrt line... only clementi is a town and has town facilities lah... i.e., banks, library, malls, post office, kfc, bigmac and etc... nus and polys also nearby... and there is a nanhua primary school near trivelis...

the other mrt stations... dover, bouna vista, commonwealth, queenstown, redhill all not "town" lah...

;)

flagship74
26-10-11, 22:53
Buy with confidence..DBSS is gonna be limited edition soon..:D

kane
26-10-11, 22:54
Watch out for the upcoming pc plot, further from clement mrt than this dbss site but most probably double the asking psf:D those who buy now huat liao

Has the land been bidded for or not yet?

irisng
26-10-11, 23:00
According to Feng Shui, this layout will condemn that residents to being poor because cannot accumulate money with main entrance having to pass kitchen (& worse still even a toilet first!) first before even reaching the living room! :doh:

I thought nowadays, mm unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms have open concept kitchen, ie kitchen is next to the door. Does that mean that those who buy these types of units cannot accumulate wealth, if that's the case, I "cham liao lo":scared-3: .

DaytonaSS
26-10-11, 23:02
I thought nowadays, mm unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms have open concept kitchen, ie kitchen is next to the door. Does that mean that those who buy these types of units cannot accumulate wealth, if that's the case,
I "cham liao lo".:scared-3:

Maybe those who stay in it will have money problem. Not the buyer....

kane
26-10-11, 23:02
I thought nowadays, mm unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms have open concept kitchen, ie kitchen is next to the door. Does that mean that those who buy these types of units cannot accumulate wealth, if that's the case, I "cham liao lo":scared-3: .

As long as it's your tenant rather than you living there, you're ok. :cheers1:

teddybear
26-10-11, 23:04
MM units - designed for the "poorer" (in that income group) to destine them to remain "poorer" according to Feng Shui. No choice lah, people pay to get what they pay. So, better don't try to save a bit on such important thing like own-stay residential property but miss the tree! :beats-me-man:


I thought nowadays, mm unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms have open concept kitchen, ie kitchen is next to the door. Does that mean that those who buy these types of units cannot accumulate wealth, if that's the case, I "cham liao lo":scared-3: .

irisng
26-10-11, 23:07
Maybe those who stay in it will have money problem. Not the buyer....

Wow, if they have money problem, then I'll have problem getting the rent from them leh.:scared-3: Still thought of staying there and rent out my current 3 bedroom EC. Why pass through the kitchen cannot accumulate wealth, is it the fire will burn the money away?:beats-me-man:

irisng
26-10-11, 23:18
MM units - designed for the "poorer" (in that income group) to destine them to remain "poorer" according to Feng Shui. No choice lah, people pay to get what they pay. So, better don't try to save a bit on such important thing like own-stay residential property but miss the tree! :beats-me-man:

Wow, why the architect so cruel, design in such a way to make the so-called poorer people to remain poorer. I thought the house depends on the destiny of a person ie "八字". Certain design of the house might not be suitable for this person but it is not necessary not suitable for another person. Should we suggest that govt should come up with a rule to get the architect or developer to take up feng shui course also so that they don't anyhow build the house to let poor people remain poorer.:ashamed1:

DaytonaSS
26-10-11, 23:20
Wow, if they have money problem, then I'll have problem getting the rent from them leh.:scared-3: Still thought of staying there and rent out my current 3 bedroom EC. Why pass through the kitchen cannot accumulate wealth, is it the fire will burn the money away?:beats-me-man:

no no no, its because they keep paying u high rental that's why they have $$$ problem. so more your fengshui trap give them a good one. They earn high pay all give to u. Some more stylo milo 1 bedder bring tons of chio chics back, bleed some more.....

kane
26-10-11, 23:28
Not bad, this forum got a lot of fengshui expert as well.

DaytonaSS
26-10-11, 23:38
Its still a long way for hdb to catch up condo lah.... this floor plan for 3 rm is about 650 sqft which is a decent 2 bedder private condo size. At least hdb still maintain 100 - 110sqm for a 5rm flat. Not too bad lah. Next time, big condos will be the hottest property coz no more in market... LOL! ;)

the 3 bedder design is acceptable. But if we compare apple to apple, the 5 room to me is not acceptable. HDB is not there to maximise profit, developers are. the 1100 sqft 5rm flat got ard 200 sqft kanna makan by balcony, bay window and aircon ledge. Some more its 100++k more expensive than sale in the area. To me its a no brainer.

evergreen
26-10-11, 23:39
Priority is External fengshui first (mountains, hills, rivers, waterways, facing of building), then internal (layout and floor plan) , then match to bazi.
If external and internal fengshui are bad, it will be bad no matter who stays in it.


Without considering fengshui, don't you think it is weird to enter walk pass the toilet to get to the living room?

land118
26-10-11, 23:39
Wow, if they have money problem, then I'll have problem getting the rent from them leh.:scared-3: Still thought of staying there and rent out my current 3 bedroom EC. Why pass through the kitchen cannot accumulate wealth, is it the fire will burn the money away?:beats-me-man:
Some feng shui...writeup on kitchen placement..

http://www.geomancy.net/resources/bbs/bbs-kitchenplacement.htm

teddybear
26-10-11, 23:40
Fengshui is divided into 2 areas: (1) luan tou; (2) li qi. You check (1), and still good, then check (2).
Without the physical luan tou being good, all talk about li qi and eight characters most suited to house of certain facing etc are all fake. All utter rubbish!

Give 1 example: Is there such thing as your eight characters best suited to houses facing directly WEST and that is best for the person living in Singapore? :beats-me-man:
The answer is: BIG NO NO! The person will either get scorned by the West sun as though living in hell in Singapore or alternatively choose to burn a hole in his pocket with 24 hours air-con full blast 7 days a week and 30 days a month! :doh:


Wow, why the architect so cruel, design in such a way to make the so-called poorer people to remain poorer. I thought the house depends on the destiny of a person ie "八字". Certain design of the house might not be suitable for this person but it is not necessary not suitable for another person. Should we suggest that govt should come up with a rule to get the architect or developer to take up feng shui course also so that they don't anyhow build the house to let poor people remain poorer.:ashamed1:

irisng
26-10-11, 23:43
Priority is External fengshui first (mountains, hills, rivers, waterways, facing of building), then internal (layout and floor plan) , then match to bazi.
If external and internal fengshui are bad, it will be bad no matter who stays in it.


Without considering fengshui, don't you think it is weird to enter walk pass the toilet to get to the living room?

Yes, I think it is weird also to pass by the toilet first, then the living room.

DaytonaSS
26-10-11, 23:45
Priority is External fengshui first (mountains, hills, rivers, waterways, facing of building), then internal (layout and floor plan) , then match to bazi.

I agree. Its flow of qi from outside and how it flow through one's house. Its also alot of common sense. Y high floor cost much more also is because it avoids alot of negative qi that could be present on the ground floor and usually the air floor on high floor is good.

irisng
26-10-11, 23:51
Some feng shui...writeup on kitchen placement..

http://www.geomancy.net/resources/bbs/bbs-kitchenplacement.htm

Wow, thank you so much, your link is good. It gives me an additional knowledge about feng shui.

irisng
26-10-11, 23:54
Fengshui is divided into 2 areas: (1) luan tou; (2) li qi. You check (1), and still good, then check (2).
Without the physical luan tou being good, all talk about li qi and eight characters most suited to house of certain facing etc are all fake. All utter rubbish!

Give 1 example: Is there such thing as your eight characters best suited to houses facing directly WEST and that is best for the person living in Singapore? :beats-me-man:
The answer is: BIG NO NO! The person will either get scorned by the West sun as though living in hell in Singapore or alternatively choose to burn a hole in his pocket with 24 hours air-con full blast 7 days a week and 30 days a month! :doh:

Sorry, what is "luan tou" and what is "li qi". I don't know much about feng shui, only heard about the eight characters to match the house. Are you a feng shui master, you seems to know alot about feng shui.

DC33_2008
27-10-11, 08:46
If I am given a choice, I will go for the design with A/C ledge area of 1m2 rather than the one with 3 m2. 2m2 is quite a bit of space in a small unit.
very soon everyone will be very depressed inside all the cramped 4-wall pigeon holes... scary... :scared-3: :banghead:
psf price also not much difference from my 10yr old near mrt condo (but mine ulu ulu location)... :beats-me-man:

http://www.trivelis.com.sg/downloads/3Room.pdf

ysyap
27-10-11, 10:08
Its getting disgusting if HDB heads down that path. Years ago when condo goes into MM, we noticed that developers were making a lot more money coz can sell at higher psf. Now, dbss, also controlled by developers, are also practicing the smelly tactics, they are spoiling the name of HDB. When will this smelly business end? :hell-hath-no-fury:

devilplate
27-10-11, 10:30
When will this smelly business end? :hell-hath-no-fury:

when px crashed >30%

ysyap
27-10-11, 11:03
when px crashed >30%Which will not happen anytime soon! Plus HDB will probably never see such drastic price drop, at least in BTO... :beats-me-man:

ikan bilis
27-10-11, 12:44
may be now worth to invest into some 10+yr old EC. near mrt preferred
those around ~1400sqft, price is still ~$700psf or less
most of those 10yr old EC are with real floor area, i.e. no balcony or bay windows

another 10yr later, developers may start to en-bloc those estates,
each and every ~1400ft 3bdr yield/converted into two units of 800ft 3bdr (with 100ft balcony/bw)


... woodsvale, summerdale, windermere, yew mei green ??...

;)

irisng
27-10-11, 21:02
may be now worth to invest into some 10+yr old EC. near mrt preferred
those around ~1400sqft, price is still ~$700psf or less
most of those 10yr old EC are with real floor area, i.e. no balcony or bay windows

another 10yr later, developers may start to en-bloc those estates,
each and every ~1400ft 3bdr yield/converted into two units of 800ft 3bdr (with 100ft balcony/bw)


... woodsvale, summerdale, windermere, yew mei green ??...

;)



http://www.singaporerealestate.info/blog/2010/04/13/list-of-executive-condos-in-singapore/

Allthepies
27-10-11, 22:05
Has the land been bidded for or not yet?

Haven't, it on confirmed lease so confirm release:D

Wild Falcon
28-10-11, 09:52
That is not a HDB flat problem. Some condos are worse and way smaller.


i refuse to stay in a hdb that....
... i have difficulties to close/open the door when i'm inside the toilet.... :scared-3:

(toilet door is not sliding door, the floorplans do not even want to show the doors and beds)

ysyap
28-10-11, 10:44
That is not a HDB flat problem. Some condos are worse and way smaller.Get EC lor... :sleep:

blackjack21trader
28-10-11, 12:08
6xxsqft for 3rm flat vy common wat....u check out all the older resale 3rm flat....all range 650-720sqft

This layout ok leh....quite like it....much better den many condo design

yes it is quite a good layout because the a/c ledge is only 1 sqm. How they managed to reduce to that is an amazing feat.

blackjack21trader
28-10-11, 12:12
Great layout. All the "qi" goes straight into the toilet.

U r referring to the A1 layout? dun worry la.. just keep the door close lor..since I believe it is a common bathroom... wait a minute... 2 toilets ! Exactly like a condo liao leh... hey ,THIS IS UNFAIR ok..

kane
28-10-11, 12:45
yes it is quite a good layout because the a/c ledge is only 1 sqm. How they managed to reduce to that is an amazing feat.

How big is a condenser in the first place. Maybe we should the other developers how cone ttheir air con ledge so big.

stiook
29-10-11, 00:06
the 3 bedder design is acceptable. But if we compare apple to apple, the 5 room to me is not acceptable. HDB is not there to maximise profit, developers are. the 1100 sqft 5rm flat got ard 200 sqft kanna makan by balcony, bay window and aircon ledge. Some more its 100++k more expensive than sale in the area. To me its a no brainer.

The balcony is as big as my living room!!! :scared-1: so effectively, it is a 3+1 for 900sf. How to stay in something like that!

ysyap
29-10-11, 06:34
How big is a condenser in the first place. Maybe we should the other developers how cone ttheir air con ledge so big.My old condo used to have a/c compressors stacked one on top of the other, wall mounted with accessibility to both units for the technician if necessary, and very sturdy and so could have just a small ledge. :cheers3: Nowadays, :doh: !

devilplate
29-10-11, 08:53
Big developer like cdl also build 7xxsqft 2bdr:doh:

kane
29-10-11, 09:00
My old condo used to have a/c compressors stacked one on top of the other, wall mounted with accessibility to both units for the technician if necessary, and very sturdy and so could have just a small ledge. :cheers3: Nowadays, :doh: !

Small air con ledge cannot make more money.

phantom_opera
29-10-11, 12:04
From a technical analysis perspective, substantial reduction of volume is required for the turning point to emerge, however, you can see that the Q3 volume is similar to Q1 volume, and the annual volume could be similar to that of 2010.

2008 28,419
2009 37,205
2010 32,257

1Q2010 3 122 2,471 3,190 2,047 651 8,484
2Q2010 4 127 2,679 3,296 2,240 768 9,114
3Q2010 5 166 2,407 2,965 1,975 687 8,205

So peak is still far far away .... what other weapons gov has?

yjcai
29-10-11, 12:30
From a technical analysis perspective, substantial reduction of volume is required for the turning point to emerge, however, you can see that the Q3 volume is similar to Q1 volume, and the annual volume could be similar to that of 2010.

2008 28,419
2009 37,205
2010 32,257

1Q2010 3 122 2,471 3,190 2,047 651 8,484
2Q2010 4 127 2,679 3,296 2,240 768 9,114
3Q2010 5 166 2,407 2,965 1,975 687 8,205

So peak is still far far away .... what other weapons gov has?

Agree. There is no way the peak comes even close.
Speculators deterred from flipping. Soon cm will be removed. Healthy grow resumes when supply catches up. Welcome to new norm of 1k psf mass market

phantom_opera
29-10-11, 12:40
for those interested in stats, we have 24k marriages in 2010, 7.4k divorce

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/marriages.pdf

Singapore admitted an average of 150,000 new arrivals each year between 2005 and 2009, with a peak of over 220,000 in 2008;

PRs granted from 2005-2010 = 341k
new citizens:

19,900 were granted Singapore citizenship in 2009, 20,500 were the new citizens for 2008.

25k (compared to average 5k per year during MBT time) new BTO every year may sound a lot, until you look at the above numbers :beats-me-man:

kane
29-10-11, 12:48
So there's 100,000 flats ready to come online. Question is how many people they want to bring in within the same time horizon after taking into account the net new family formation a year.

Laguna
29-10-11, 13:15
So there's 100,000 flats ready to come online. Question is how many people they want to bring in within the same time horizon after taking into account the net new family formation a year.

All these new HDB flats will only hit the resale market 8 years time
3 years construction and 5 yrs MOP

phantom_opera
29-10-11, 13:22
The most scary (or shall i say exciting for prop owners) is the fact that Khaw/PM keep saying problem will be solved in a few years time, so their strategy basically is to launch BTO projects (90% ulu location) to satisfy the 24k new marriages +20k new SC every year and leave the resale market to the 341k SPRs brought in last 5y (and another 200k probably in next 5 years)

So HDB is saying that they will leave the HDB resale price to market forces ... now the index is 190 still the volume remains above 30k per year, if the index hits 250, volume probably will be halved .... the peak will be near ... about 1 million mark for Bishan

Laguna
29-10-11, 13:31
Politically they are right, as BTO at ulu areas are cheaper, but ppl dun want...so, they sell affordable BTO and job well done.

I can see the BTO subscription rate or eventually, the take up rate is gg to be low. Well, they said, they want to build in advance..but by how much in advance.

At the poor subscription rate of the BTO, the number next year will drop...

yjcai
29-10-11, 13:32
The most scary (or shall i say exciting for prop owners) is the fact that Khaw/PM keep saying problem will be solved in a few years time, so their strategy basically is to launch BTO projects (90% ulu location) to satisfy the 24k new marriages +20k new SC every year and leave the resale market to the 341k SPRs brought in last 5y (and another 200k probably in next 5 years)

If I clementi resale HDB owner. I would now sell my resale hdb at sky high price and COV and apply punggol bto while people are still buying small DBSS MMs frantically << 650 psf on average.

Resale sure got demand,
Foreigners and SPR buy my old and shitty HDB.
Condo owners who cannot BTO buy my old resale and keep cash, wait for something to happen.

phantom_opera
29-10-11, 13:52
my prediction, just for laugh:

1st 100% increase due to allow using CPF to buy properties + asset enhancement program, 2nd 100% due to undersupply and immigrants

1st is from 70-140, 2nd range is 140-280 :scared-1:

ikan bilis
29-10-11, 14:40
some of my thoughts, for sharing only...


i'm still holding a hdb and rented it out...
i'm watching at the hdb market closely all the time,


few important points for sharing (apart from all other economy, liquidity issues):

1. Shortage of resale hdb
- as phantom pointed out, there is influx of foreigner and too little supply. I actually had been riding on the shortages and refuse to sell my hdb

2. "peak" price of hdb could be near
- for e.g., for a 5rm resale in clementi is about $600K (valuation) + $60K resale. Buyer have to come out some $120K(cpf)+$60K(COV)+$20K(Reno). If I'm a buyer now i might (might as well) throw that $180K as 20% downpayment for a 900K 3bdr 10yr old condo.
- Current hdb price cannot keep shooting up, it will have some spillover effects and push up PC. And also not many PR could eaily come out with $40-80K cash.
- That "COV" is actually artificially suppressing the HDB prices all the time. If banks finance to full HDB resale price, HDB price will immediately shoot to moon now.
- Resale market is still a "semi" free market. With valuations controlled by housing board.

3. Measures govt could introduce to address the resale shortages
a. Force HDB & PC owner to dispose of HDB within 3 yrs
- Can be done but too drastic. It took us lots of very small steps to reach here, if you remember all the tiny regulations relaxation
b. Govt to throw out lots and lots of EC
- EC owners must throw hdb to resale market when EC top.
- But I still do not see that huge supply of EC yet.
c. Selling BTO directly to PR, but no subsidy
- It happened once at Jurong West only. For clearing the 10K+ oversupply units
d. force shortening of MOP to 3yrs

4. HDB resale price will not crash easily, during recession
- We have a shortage until 2017/8, where the larger batches built in 2010/1 comes to the resale market
- HDB mainly financed by cpf
- Majority of HDB units are for own stay (about 5% rented out)
- You cannot perform any equity loan or "cash out from equity" for HDB.
- There should be quite big percentage of people who had cleared their HDB loan.
- You can throw your hdb flat back to housing board at 90% valuation price.


;)

phantom_opera
29-10-11, 15:03
Good analysis, but somehow it is not reflected in the volume of the HDB resale txn i.e. if the reality is:

Pt. 1: Most PRs cannot afford

Then why last quarter we still have 8k units transacted and we are about to strike 30k units this year, the Q3 COV should be about 40k on average ... who are the buyers? Some buyers could be those who offload their PCs so flushed with cash but surely a lot of the buyers should be SPRs?


According to HDB's data, COV ranged from S$29,000 for a three-room flat in Woodlands to S$68,000 for an executive flat in Tampines.

Pt 2: Might as well buy PCs

I think the quantum of PCs available in resale market now could be too high to SPRs i.e. even a lousy 2br 1000sqft can be 1 million, the initial payment of 200k+legal fees etc still out of reach of many SPRs? Unless PC resale market is full of 700sqft 2brs.

Throwing out ECs not profitable for government lol bcos normally ECs should be quite good location

but I do agree with you, the last lethal weapon will be to sell BTOs directly to SPRs without subsidy, sure work and crash the resale market

ikan bilis
29-10-11, 18:54
...we should be in the luckier smaller percentage group.. .:ashamed1: :D

for PR, most are actually very hard to come out the 40-80K COV $$... many had been top up by parents (from both sides somemore)... a lots of locals also already could not afford that COV and asking parents' help liow... :scared-3: :beats-me-man:

....govt is really sucking $$ like :cheers3: ....

samuelk
30-10-11, 06:10
With the recent En bloc , there should be a steady stream of PP coming on board with cash. But not so big that it will be a runaway situation. Just that with the econmic uncertainty, many are weary on what is indeed the lows that is to be gotton.

Still, there is no news that we have reach the stage of recession till Fist Q of next yr.

Good time coming to a close soon I guess.:beats-me-man:

DC33_2008
30-10-11, 10:37
Do you pay higher property tax for your HDB as you have rent it out?
some of my thoughts, for sharing only...


i'm still holding a hdb and rented it out...
i'm watching at the hdb market closely all the time,


few important points for sharing (apart from all other economy, liquidity issues):

1. Shortage of resale hdb
- as phantom pointed out, there is influx of foreigner and too little supply. I actually had been riding on the shortages and refuse to sell my hdb

2. "peak" price of hdb could be near
- for e.g., for a 5rm resale in clementi is about $600K (valuation) + $60K resale. Buyer have to come out some $120K(cpf)+$60K(COV)+$20K(Reno). If I'm a buyer now i might (might as well) throw that $180K as 20% downpayment for a 900K 3bdr 10yr old condo.
- Current hdb price cannot keep shooting up, it will have some spillover effects and push up PC. And also not many PR could eaily come out with $40-80K cash.
- That "COV" is actually artificially suppressing the HDB prices all the time. If banks finance to full HDB resale price, HDB price will immediately shoot to moon now.
- Resale market is still a "semi" free market. With valuations controlled by housing board.

3. Measures govt could introduce to address the resale shortages
a. Force HDB & PC owner to dispose of HDB within 3 yrs
- Can be done but too drastic. It took us lots of very small steps to reach here, if you remember all the tiny regulations relaxation
b. Govt to throw out lots and lots of EC
- EC owners must throw hdb to resale market when EC top.
- But I still do not see that huge supply of EC yet.
c. Selling BTO directly to PR, but no subsidy
- It happened once at Jurong West only. For clearing the 10K+ oversupply units
d. force shortening of MOP to 3yrs

4. HDB resale price will not crash easily, during recession
- We have a shortage until 2017/8, where the larger batches built in 2010/1 comes to the resale market
- HDB mainly financed by cpf
- Majority of HDB units are for own stay (about 5% rented out)
- You cannot perform any equity loan or "cash out from equity" for HDB.
- There should be quite big percentage of people who had cleared their HDB loan.
- You can throw your hdb flat back to housing board at 90% valuation price.


;)

ikan bilis
30-10-11, 11:10
Do you pay higher property tax for your HDB as you have rent it out?

10% rate,... once you register/apply rented out whole flat on hdb-website and approved. IRA automatically send you a letter adjusting 4% to 10%...

ysyap
30-10-11, 11:36
Will HDB reject application to rent out flat if all requirements are met? :confused:

ikan bilis
30-10-11, 12:48
Will HDB reject application to rent out flat if all requirements are met? :confused:


don't know,... but think they should not, why they want to do so if you met all requirements?


however, to minimise risks/inconveniences you can...
1. first log in onto hdb website using singpass
2. try fill in the online application, website will immediately inform you if you are eligible for whole unit rented out. after that, you cannot continue from here as you do not have tenants’ particulars (=> you tested greenlight, some AIP)
3. go look for tenants. Tell tenant there is some tiny risk of being rejected by hdb as first time application (and you will return deposit if that happens)
4. once tenancy agreement signed, apply online, with full tenant particulars. Apply for maximum 3 years period. (i remember there is a fee of $20 each time)
5. the next time you change tenant before the 3yr expires, just perform update of tenants' particular (your flat already approved for 3yrs, and no fee needed for update)
6. unless your tenant giving too much problems to neighbours, else hdb should not revoke the sub-letting approval for the 3yr period


:rolleyes:

ysyap
30-10-11, 12:58
Thank you and good to know! :)

stiook
30-10-11, 16:58
Thanks for this great info. Meeting agent to settle my HDB rental.