Smaller flats have not lowered quality of life: HDB CEO

[hyenergix]

With comments like that, this CEO is encouraging couples to have fewer babies :tsk-tsk:

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC111111-0000071/Smaller-flats-have-not-lowered-quality-of-life--HDB-CEO

[radha08]

if ceo himself staying in 3rm flat then he can talk...:mad:

[buttercarp]

That jacket she is wearing, I also got:D !
Can wear both ways, ie turn inside out and you get a different print.

[hopeful]

That jacket she is wearing, I also got:D !
Can wear both ways, ie turn inside out and you get a different print.
alamak, another turncoat :).

[buttercarp]

Here is the jacket......

[devilplate]

Here is the jacket......
look like ah soh wor....opss....

[buttercarp]

look like ah soh wor....opss....

Depends on who wears it.....
IMHO, I think it is a bit too young on her.
Btw it is cheap one, which means to show she is frugal.
Then I think the bag she was carrying in the picture, from what i remembered in the straits times picture the last time, I think it is a Coach bag.

Also not very expensive.
Shows that she does not splurge on expensive stuff.

[nobrainer32007]

So u also ceo or coe material?





B]
Here is the jacket......

[buttercarp]

So u also ceo or coe material?





B]

Jacket very cheap one....i got it at half price during a sale.
No, I not CEO, but I want COE leh.

[kane]

I think the size is not the decider for having more babies. it's true that the older generation have squeezed more people in a 3 room flat.

it's when both husband and wife need to go out and be economically productive and come home all tired, that's the quality of life that's being traded off, and having children would be much harder when you don't have the mood nor energy for it.

[devilplate]

I think the size is not the decider for having more babies. it's true that the older generation have squeezed more people in a 3 room flat.

it's when both husband and wife need to go out and be economically productive and come home all tired, that's the quality of life that's being traded off, and having children would be much harder when you don't have the mood nor energy for it.
rising expectations adds to it as well.....poorer countries birth rate very healthy.....

Last time parents dun mind having babies as long their salary enuff to feed the whole family and practically not much savings left every mth end.....but not the case now.....yng couples wants to have regular savings.....took up bigger debts once they started work......buy hse....buy car......

In the 80s, yng couples will stay wif parent first and still make babies....den after 5-10yrs later den buy own hse and move out......

[kane]

i'm not so sure about that, if you took today's hdb prices, set a 10 year repayment schedule (which was the norm back then), then you'd probably find one income cannot manage the load.

[devilplate]

i'm not so sure about that, if you took today's hdb prices, set a 10 year repayment schedule (which was the norm back then), then you'd probably find one income cannot manage the load.
high hdb px is conveniently being used as an excuse over these few yrs for having low birth rate

Remember hdb px only shoots up in early 07 but our birth rate haf been declining for more den a decade

[PN]

if ceo himself staying in 3rm flat then he can talk...:mad:

Using figures to confuse people lah.
It's not the number of people living in the house, it's the size of the bedrooms, living and kitchen.

MBT commented about hdb size some years back that although the size of flat is smaller but with creative interior design you can make full use of the space and the room can looks spacious.
Like that also can?

So it mean that inorder to make a small living room looks bigger, install mirror on the wall.
And becasue the living room is smaller, buy smaller sofa. Cannot put 3 seaters, buy 2 seaters.
Becasue the bedroom is smaller, don't buy king size bed. Buy queen size instead.


Hmm.. All these got nothing to do with quality?

[devilplate]

Using figures to confuse people lah.
It's not the number of people living in the house, it's the size of the bedrooms, living and kitchen.

MBT commented about hdb size some years back that although the size of flat is smaller but with creative interior design you can make full use of the space and the room can looks spacious.
Like that also can?

So it mean that inorder to make a small living room looks bigger, install mirror on the wall.
And becasue the living room is smaller, buy smaller sofa. Cannot put 3 seaters, buy 2 seaters.
Becasue the bedroom is smaller, don't buy king size bed. Buy queen size instead.


Hmm.. All these got nothing to do with quality?
comparing with full time hsewife in the earlier days with modern wives now.....whose life is better?

[buttercarp]

In the old days, we may have more people in our flats, but there were less people outside......

IMHO, in order to be comfortable, each member of the family should have a room to himself/ herself which should be large enough to put a bed, a study table and wardrobe.
In that way, you have private space to yourself, which is extremely important to me.

[Worsty]

Babyopolis

Money or Babies – You can't have both

Since its birth as a nation in 1965, the government of Singapore has focused on ensuring broad-based economic prosperity and, when compared to most countries, has succeeded spectacularly. They had the foresight and long-range planning discipline to reclaim land from the sea, build highways, airports, schools, hospitals, underground subways and entire communities long before they were needed.

Over 96% of Singaporeans are literate1, GDP is among the highest in the world2, infant mortality is the lowest globally3, and low tax rates allow people and corporations to keep most of what they earn. Despite extreme automobile taxes and the island's cautious maximum speed limit of 90 km/hr, the roads are surprisingly full of exotic supercars that can accelerate from zero to 100km/hr in less than 4 seconds. Singapore has the highest proportion of millionaires globally (15.5% of households) beating out Switzerland, Qatar, Hong Kong, Kuwait and the U.A.E.4 Eighty-seven percent of residents own their homes.5

http://www.mailcarp.com/em/admin/temp/newsletters/1542/babyopolis-c1.gif
A country can have economic prosperity or baby prosperity, but not both. This is a relatively new phenomenon in the historic perspective of the world. Once the per capita GDP of a country exceeds USD$18,000, the fertility rate (babies per woman in a lifetime) drops below 2.1, the level needed to replenish the population. And if your baby bounty is higher than 2.8, your GDP is less than $6,000. There are only two exceptions6.

"We Begin With the Future"

In a preface to an interview with Lee Kuan Yew, the founder of modern Singapore, Charlie Rose said "we begin with the future, which has always been his [LKY's] subject."7 While many global leaders have been unable to see past their noses, Lee Kuan Yew has indeed been a progressive visionary.

But one aspect of the future was unforeseeable. In the mid 1970s, fertility rates in most developed countries, including Europe, North America, Singapore and Japan, fell below replacement level for the first time. This was the beginning of what would lead to shrinking populations of economically developed countries early in the 21st century. No government expected fertility rates to fall below replacement level and stay there. There was simply no precedent (save perhaps ancient Rome).

We now know that increased urbanization & rapid economic growth leads to lower fertility. No country has been able to escape this eventuality. Governments that pursued policies of increased birth control and reduced fertility may have accelerated the fertility decline, but they had a negligible impact on the ultimate result.

In any heavily urbanized and economically advancing country, the momentum of falling fertility becomes almost impossible to arrest. As evidenced by Taipei (0.9), Beijing (0.67) and Hong Kong (0.9), Asian urban fertility does not stop falling until women bear an average of less than one baby during their lifetimes9.

GDP is a function of people and productivity and future Singaporeans are missing. The logarithmic nature of Singapore's 1.15 per woman fertility rate suggests that in just three generations, the number of babies born will fall to 19% of current levels if the fertility rate remains constant. (Assume 100 people; 50 men and 50 women. A fertility rate of 1.15 leads to 57.5 babies for generation one, 33 babies for generation two and just 19 babies for generation three).13

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Planting the Seeds

A story is told that Oxford University's great hall roof was faced with rot in the 16th century. Fortunately, "the founder of the college foresaw this event 500 years ago and planted a spinney of oaks to provide replacement timbers when needed." Said the head woodsman, with pragmatic foresight; "We will have to fell the trees now and of course plant more in case this happens again during the next 500 years."8

Singapore, and most Western countries, didn't realize they were facing the human equivalent of deforestation. By neglecting to plant seeds for the future, they must now rely on foreign imports to provide the missing foundations for the productivity of the country.

When asked by Charlie Rose if he was worried about the declining birth rate, the former Prime Minister said, "Nothing can be done about it. It's a lifestyle change. The women are educated, they are completely independent [and] they don't marry until they are in their late/mid thirties."10

Mind the Gap

It is relatively simple to calculate how many births per year are required to replace the resident population. As a rule of thumb, take total resident population and divide by 70% of life expectancy. For example, 3.8 million residents divided by 70% of 80 years = 68,000 babies per year. There were 38,000 births in 20105. The production gap of 30,000 babies must be closed by immigration or increased fertility. To date, immigration has been the answer.

The following chart shows how the resident population of Singapore has increased at a low rate of 1.6% per year since 1971 (right hand side), while the non-resident population has expanded at a rate of 8% per year. If these rates of growth continue for another 18 years, Singapore's population will swell to 10 million and non-residents will outnumber residents.

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Making Babies

Let's look at this fertility problem as a well educated and highly paid technocrat might. Several European countries have recently succeeded in arresting the trend of lower fertility that began in the late 1800s. Fertility rates as low as 1.3 babies per woman have jumped back up to almost 2.0 in parts of Europe over the past decade.

Longer maternity leave for mothers, paternity leave for fathers and day care centers that are ubiquitous and well-staffed all support higher fertility. Reports suggest that babies who are breast-fed for the first six months of their lives tend to be smarter and have better eyesight and stronger immune systems than their formula-fed peers11. Not just more babies – healthier babies.

But better care for babies probably contributes a maximum of 0.2 to the higher fertility rate. The bulk of the increase comes from immigrants. In France, first generation immigrants have an average of over three babies per woman and the second generation manufactures close to 2.5 babies.

Israel has successfully increased fertility rates. They recognize that their existence as a nation depends on a strong and growing population and have encouraged both massive immigration (with citizenship effective the day of arrival) and fertility. The Haredim, or ultra-Orthodox Jews, qualify for military exemption by engaging in full-time study, and spend their lives learning and reproducing. They are supported by government social assistance. The women have an average of nine babies and this subset now accounts for 15% of the population12.

Babyopolis – Two Options

Sentosa, an entertainment island worked. Jurong Island, a petroleum and petrochemical hub worked. Fusionopolis and Biopolis seem to be taking off. Is it time for Babyopolis?

The first option is to build an island to produce babies. For the inhabiting couples, fund education, housing, child day care, medical care, grant military exemption and pay a cash bonus of $200,000 for every baby in excess of two. Target production = 70,000 babies per year, double the current rate. Expected cost is SGD 7-10 billion per year. Singapore has the financial reserves, which can either be used to buy shares in failing foreign banks or to invest in future Singaporeans. In 30 to 40 years, Singapore would be the only Asian country with an expanding, educated and youthful population. A few Nobel laureates or ping pong champions may lay in wait. Talk about a strategic advantage! What's the biggest potential problem? Babyopolis residents become soft, unproductive and lack entrepreneurial drive due to a pampered life and government largess.

The second option is to encourage a robust, diversified and international population of the best, brightest and most inventive from around the globe. From a cost perspective, buying beats building (immigrants would be cheaper than home-grown). The downside is that the native Singaporean population would die out and their iconic patois, Singlish, would be lost. The resulting international melting pot would dilute the Singaporean identity.



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Sources:

Literacy. Department of Statistics, Singapore, 2010 data.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html#litedu (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1892&F=H)
6th highest globally in terms of GDP per capita, PPP (constant 2005 international $) as of 2009 according to the UN World Development Indicators 2010 revision.
Mortality rate under 5 years old per 1,000 for countries with a population of at least one million according to UN World Development Indicators 2010 revision.
Bloomberg Businessweek, 26 June 2011
http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20110602/twenty-countries-with-the-highest-proportion-of-millionaires/ (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1896&F=H)
Department of Statistics Singapore. http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1893&F=H)
UN World Development Indicators 2011 revision. Data as of 2009. Includes only countries with populations in excess of 4 million people.
Charlie Rose Interview with Lee Kuan Yew rebroadcast on 20 May 2011.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11681 (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1895&F=H)
Koenig, Chris. The Oxford Times, Home-grown wood, 15 October 2009,
http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/business/profiles/4683402.Home_grown_wood/ (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1894&F=H)
City Fertility rates: Taiwan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14525525, Beijing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Total_fertility_rate , Hong Kong (2003 data) http://www.statistics.gov.hk/publication/feature_article/B71011FC2010XXXXB0100.pdf
Charlie Rose Interview with Lee Kuan Yew rebroadcast on 20 May 2011.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11681 (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1895&F=H)
ABC News Medical Unit. 20 Dec 2010.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_ParentingResource/breastfed-babies-smarter/story?id=12422801 (http://www.mailcarp.com/em/link.php?M=588115&N=2370&L=1897&F=H)
Senor, Dan and Singer, Saul. Start-UP Nation. The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle. Twelve 2009.
Log of Low Fertility

[devilplate]

In the old days, we may have more people in our flats, but there were less people outside......

IMHO, in order to be comfortable, each member of the family should have a room to himself/ herself which should be large enough to put a bed, a study table and wardrobe.
In that way, you have private space to yourself, which is extremely important to me.
i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s:(

I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

[Worsty]

i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s:(

I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

Now you have a few units to choose to sleep in... :sleep:

All part of the plan

Well done

[ysyap]

At 22, I was still sleeping in the living room with no door for privacy.... :doh:

[hopeful]

i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s:(

I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

thought lie on hard surface is good for your problematic back :D.

[devilplate]

thought lie on hard surface is good for your problematic back :D.
all thanks to NS

[buttercarp]

all thanks to NS

Were you then downgraded?

[ysyap]

She very funny in her definition that area per occupant = quality of life. Last time flats don't have a/c ledge. I remember the a/c are all built inside the house. No 3 in 1 compressors, etc. Now got big big a/c ledges. Furthermore, each house has basic requirements like dining table, TV console, Refrigerator, kitchen cabinets, beds, etc.

Also, has she seen the DBSS at Tampines, City View and Simei with 5 room area of 105 sqm to 107 sqm? If a 121 sqm unit has 40 sqm used up on these basic requirements, a 110 sqm unit also will use up about 40 sqm plus another 5 sqm of a/c ledge. So in actual calculation, 81 sqm/4.9 = 16.5 sqm/occupant in the past vs now 65 (use 110 - 45 sqm)/3.5 = 18.6 sqm/occupant is more accurate. In short, there is not much difference between space per occupant but the price of each unit has rose faster than the income of each household. :doh: Nice picture she painted but slightly flawed... ;)

[devilplate]

Were you then downgraded?
no longer impt....

Scars can nvr be healed

[devilplate]

She very funny in her definition that area per occupant = quality of life. Last time flats don't have a/c ledge. I remember the a/c are all built inside the house. No 3 in 1 compressors, etc. Now got big big a/c ledges. Furthermore, each house has basic requirements like dining table, TV console, Refrigerator, kitchen cabinets, beds, etc.

Also, has she seen the DBSS at Tampines, City View and Simei with 5 room area of 105 sqm to 107 sqm? If a 121 sqm unit has 40 sqm used up on these basic requirements, a 110 sqm unit also will use up about 40 sqm plus another 5 sqm of a/c ledge. So in actual calculation, 81 sqm/4.9 = 16.5 sqm/occupant in the past vs now 65 (use 110 - 45 sqm)/3.5 = 18.6 sqm/occupant is more accurate. In short, there is not much difference between space per occupant but the price of each unit has rose faster than the income of each household. :doh: Nice picture she painted but slightly flawed... ;)

Actually wat she says make some sense but she forget tat nowadays policeman dun wear shorts liao....whahahaha

[august]

this is call talk cock, learn from her boss one...

[ysyap]

this is call talk cock, learn from her boss one...Like boss, like subordinate! :D

[irisng]

i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s:(

I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....


You are luckier than me. I had my own room only when I got married. Nowadays youngers are so lucky, can have their own bedroom at a younger age.

I stayed in a rented 2 bedroom type of HDB. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters + 2 of my cousins came from Indonesia and stayed with us. Later all of them moved out after married, except my elder's brother & his wife (together with his 2 children) stayed with us. We let them had the main bedroom but our cupboards were inside their bedroom because we had no place to put. My father build a partition at the living hall and put a double-decker bed. I slept on top while my mother slept below. My father laid a mattress and slept at the living hall.:scared-3: But at that time, I never thought that it was cramped at all, maybe I was brought up in such an environment and get used to that type of life.

[devilplate]

You are luckier than me. I had my own room only when I got married. Nowadays youngers are so lucky, can have their own bedroom at a younger age.

I stayed in a rented 2 bedroom type of HDB. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters + 2 of my cousins came from Indonesia and stayed with us. Later all of them moved out after married, except my elder's brother & his wife (together with his 2 children) stayed with us. We let them had the main bedroom but our cupboards were inside their bedroom because we had no place to put. My father build a partition at the living hall and put a double-decker bed. I slept on top while my mother slept below. My father laid a mattress and slept at the living hall.:scared-3: But at that time, I never thought that it was cramped at all, maybe I was brought up in such an environment and get used to that type of life.
tats y we r more acceptable to MMs? Lol!

[irisng]

Actually wat she says make some sense but she forget tat nowadays policeman dun wear shorts liao....whahahaha

Ya, whenever I told my daughter to be "something...something", she would tell me that last time policeman wear shorts but nowadays policeman don't wear shorts already.:doh: She was trying to tell me that things have changed, old method of teaching don't work anymore. Then I told her that last time I am your "mummy" and now not anymore loh. Certain things can change but certains things cannot change at all especially family bond and moral. Then she kept quiet.

[irisng]

tats y we r more acceptable to MMs? Lol!

I don't mind if both of my children got married and left with my husband and I only. We have this plan too. My husband just told me yesterday again, no point staying in a "big place" when there are only 2 of us. I told him that what happen if they want to come back and stay, then he said how often will it be. So I think it is still better to have at least 2 bedrooms, get prepared.

BTW, what is Lol?

[hopeful]

Ya, whenever I told my daughter to be "something...something", she would tell me that last time policeman wear shorts but nowadays policeman don't wear shorts already.:doh: She was trying to tell me that things have changed, old method of teaching don't work anymore. Then I told her that last time I am your "mummy" and now not anymore loh. Certain things can change but certains things cannot change at all especially family bond and moral. Then she kept quiet.

now she kept quiet because she still dependent on you?

[buttercarp]

Devilplate, ysyap and irisng.......
You all are from rags to riches.........

I had a good childhood.
I grew up in a 3 rm HDB, then 5 rm flat, moved a couple of times later cos my parents bought a condo and we had to rent before the condo TOPed.
All this while I had a room to myself and my brother, his.
But we were scared of ghosts, so we slept with our parents when we were younger, until one day the king size bed actually broke!

That was when my brother and I shifted out of the master bedroom.

[irisng]

now she kept quiet because she still dependent on you?

Maybe lor.:beats-me-man: or maybe she doesn't want to argue with me, silent is the best weapon.:scared-3:

[devilplate]

I don't mind if both of my children got married and left with my husband and I only. We have this plan too. My husband just told me yesterday again, no point staying in a "big place" when there are only 2 of us. I told him that what happen if they want to come back and stay, then he said how often will it be. So I think it is still better to have at least 2 bedrooms, get prepared.

BTW, what is Lol?
lol= lots of laughter=laugh out loud

[devilplate]

Devilplate, ysyap and irisng.......
You all are from rags to riches.........

I had a good childhood.
I grew up in a 3 rm HDB, then 5 rm flat, moved a couple of times later cos my parents bought a condo and we had to rent before the condo TOPed.
All this while I had a room to myself and my brother, his.
But we were scared of ghosts, so we slept with our parents when we were younger, until one day the king size bed actually broke!

That was when my brother and I shifted out of the master bedroom.
not really from rag la....some of my frens r far worse....

Not rich either but quite contented wif wat i haf now

U haf a happy family cheers

[PN]

comparing with full time hsewife in the earlier days with modern wives now.....whose life is better?

Is there a housewife happiness index? :D

[blackjack21trader]

I don't mind if both of my children got married and left with my husband and I only. We have this plan too. My husband just told me yesterday again, no point staying in a "big place" when there are only 2 of us. I told him that what happen if they want to come back and stay, then he said how often will it be. So I think it is still better to have at least 2 bedrooms, get prepared.

BTW, what is Lol?

You should pool all your resources together and try to find a bigger place like a landed semi-d or bungalow la. I intend to do that for my children, requesting the married ones to stay in my house lor. Then the couples got to help pay the mortgage also lah.

[buttercarp]

You should pool all your resources together and try to find a bigger place like a landed semi-d or bungalow la. I intend to do that for my children, requesting the married ones to stay in my house lor. Then the couples got to help pay the mortgage also lah.

I think it is fat hope to get the younger generation to pay for mortgage!

My plan is to have 2 condos in addition to my own home, so that when my 2 kids get married, they can stay there and pay me rental. They don't have to give me allowance, just give me rental money which will be below market if they are not earning much at the start of their career.

If they have children, they can put their kids in my place for day care only, but they have to pay for the maid.

[buttercarp]

Is there a housewife happiness index? :D

Apart from the very rich ones, who can afford to be tai tais, I think most housewives are not a happy lot.
Most become SAHM, cos they want to nurture their kids at the expense of their income and independence.
Also, their husbands become less secure as he becomes the sole bread winner, which can be stressful.
In addition, when a woman stays at home and gets bogged down by housework and child minding, her perspective changes as she may lose touch with the outside world.
This may affect the couple's relationship.

[PN]

You should pool all your resources together and try to find a bigger place like a landed semi-d or bungalow la. I intend to do that for my children, requesting the married ones to stay in my house lor. Then the couples got to help pay the mortgage also lah.

I also thought about this before. This is going back to the big family in the old days but there will be many conflicts that is so difficult to manage.

Say you have 3 childrens and married with childrens.
Imaging 1st child with wife. 2nd child with husband. 3rd child with wife.
If 1st family child bully second family child. The parents of 2nd family will scold the 1st family child. End up the the parents also fights & becomes enemies. In fact children is the most common reason of family conflicts.

And I guess there will be maid(s) doing household chores. Maid becomes common resources all families fight for. I want the maid to do this for me now. Another will say why you first, I need her to clean my toilet.

Besides, each will want to have a say in family matters since they also pay for the mortgage. I can only imagine conflicts conflicts and conflicts.

Cantonese drama show happen non-stop in the house.

If they don't stay together but gather once in a while at your place during special occasions and celebrations. People tends to be more friendly to each others.

相处容易同住难

[buttercarp]

I also thought about this before. This is going back to the big family in the old days but there will be many conflicts that is so difficult to manage.

Say you have 3 childrens and married with childrens.
Imaging 1st child with wife. 2nd child with husband. 3rd child with wife.
If 1st family child bully second family child. The parents of 2nd family will scold the 1st family child. End up the the parents also fights & becomes enemies. In fact children is the most common reason of family conflicts.

And I guess there will be maid(s) doing household chores. Maid becomes common resources all families fight for. I want the maid to do this for me now. Another will say why you first, I need her to clean my toilet.

Besides, each will want to have a say in family matters since they also pay for the mortgage. I can only imagine conflicts conflicts and conflicts.

Cantonese drama show happen non-stop in the house.

If they don't stay together but gather once in a while at your place during special occasions and celebrations. People tends to be more friendly to each others.

相处容易同住难

Well said!
Familiarity breeds contempt.
Just maintain a cordial relationship with the in-laws.
In that way, the children will not be in a difficult position.

[fisho]

I am deeply disturbed and saddened by what is said by a person in such a position. Obviously, she hadn't stayed in a subsidised HDB flat in the 70's.

My 2 elder brothers and me shared a single room while my parents stayed in the older room in this typical 3 room unit in Tanglin Halt. How to I.D. the house to make it bigger? Alamak.

I remembered having difficultly sleeping cos my eldest brother is always hitting the books to his medical degree. My dad has to take out 2 jobs so as to move out of that predicament. I am always out as the place is too crammy.

I hope we are not moving towards Hong Kong housing status. Many youngsters would rather stay outside than coming back to a crammy home. So much so for the quality of life.

Statements like that also can. Might as well move to jailhouse. Redecorate cheaper and better living condition if you know how to.

We are already paying so much for a BTO, pls do not downside and says quality of life not affected. Higher price, lower space = More stress, less babies.

Now that I'm in my early forties, I cannot fathom how my 2 kids are going to grow up with such attitude from the relevant authority. :doh:

[buttercarp]

Now that I'm in my early forties, I cannot fathom how my 2 kids are going to grow up with such attitude from the relevant authority. :doh:
Maybe we have to take after the birds?

[fisho]

Maybe we have to take after the birds?

That's depressing. Especially coming from my kid favourite Powerpuff Girl. :scared-4:

[buttercarp]

Since the living space per person has increased according to her statement

"Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a housing forum on Thursday morning, Dr Cheong noted that there were now fewer persons living in one flat which works out to increased living space per person."

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1164517/1/.html


then HDB should give discounts to large family units when they buy HDB flats.
That may encourage people to have more children?

[howgozit]

I am deeply disturbed and saddened by what is said by a person in such a position. Obviously, she hadn't stayed in a subsidised HDB flat in the 70's.

My 2 elder brothers and me shared a single room while my parents stayed in the older room in this typical 3 room unit in Tanglin Halt. How to I.D. the house to make it bigger? Alamak.

I remembered having difficultly sleeping cos my eldest brother is always hitting the books to his medical degree. My dad has to take out 2 jobs so as to move out of that predicament. I am always out as the place is too crammy.

I hope we are not moving towards Hong Kong housing status. Many youngsters would rather stay outside than coming back to a crammy home. So much so for the quality of life.

Statements like that also can. Might as well move to jailhouse. Redecorate cheaper and better living condition if you know how to.

We are already paying so much for a BTO, pls do not downside and says quality of life not affected. Higher price, lower space = More stress, less babies.

Now that I'm in my early forties, I cannot fathom how my 2 kids are going to grow up with such attitude from the relevant authority. :doh:


Don't be too quick to presume what her background is and what kind of environment she grew up in.

[fisho]

With statements like that, I need no further presumptions. That is far from my mind.

On the one hand, KBW mentions about the danger of having shoebox houses, on the other hand, somebody else says smaller flats have not lowered quality of life.

Cheers
Fisho

[howgozit]

I am deeply disturbed and saddened by what is said by a person in such a position. Obviously, she hadn't stayed in a subsidised HDB flat in the 70's.


This is a presumption.

[fisho]

This is a presumption.

Yes bro, that is far from my mind as I said. No arguements with you. Just not convinced with the statement made. That is the point.

Don't harp on that presumption. Maybe I am wrong. She may have it tough before becoming what she is. Not my point. Period.

Just not sure why somebody so high up would issue a statement like that.

Cheers
Fisho

[buttercarp]

Yes bro, that is far from my mind as I said. No arguements with you. Just not convinced with the statement made. That is the point.

Don't harp on that presumption. Maybe I am wrong. She may have it tough before becoming what she is. Not my point. Period.

Just not sure why somebody so high up would issue a statement like that.

Cheers
Fisho

Yup, I am also quite curious to know her childhood.

Considering her modest outfit and her bag, I presume that she must have come from an average middle income family.

Sometimes people may lose touch with what's happening on the ground when they progress high up.

[ysyap]

Since the living space per person has increased according to her statement

"Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a housing forum on Thursday morning, Dr Cheong noted that there were now fewer persons living in one flat which works out to increased living space per person."

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1164517/1/.html


then HDB should give discounts to large family units when they buy HDB flats.
That may encourage people to have more children?Wake up wake up from your beautiful dream :p ... if that is their adopted method to solve declining birth rate, then it would have been implemented years ago... certainly not now in the wake of a potential world wide finacial turmoil starting from Europe! ;)

[buttercarp]

Wake up wake up from your beautiful dream :p ... if that is their adopted method to solve declining birth rate, then it would have been implemented years ago... certainly not now in the wake of a potential world wide finacial turmoil starting from Europe! ;)

LOL .......I can't even dream of owning a new HDB now.:p
It is one suggestion they should consider, if they are listening........

[radha08]

i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s:(

I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

because u have good karma and done good thats why the all mighty has rewarded u with plenty plenty rooms to sleep in today....:D

[kane]

living room airy and spacious. when i'm sick, i self quarantine myself to sleep in the living room.

[fisho]

Just wondering. What is the cost of building a subsidized BTO unit?

Isn't 300K typically paid now more than sufficient to cover the cost of a 100sq meter unit.

[hyenergix]

Please don't complain. HDB is making losses every year so that you can buy affordable flats. Really?! :p

[irisng]

lol= lots of laughter=laugh out loud

oic, thanks.

[devilplate]

Just wondering. What is the cost of building a subsidized BTO unit?

Isn't 300K typically paid now more than sufficient to cover the cost of a 100sq meter unit.

i mentioned b4 oredi......the cost is not just building your unit alone....how about cost of building infrastructure, roads, nearby amenities like schools, parks if any etc

u guys wana share the whole cost of building a HDB estate or stay status quo?

[devilplate]

Please don't complain. HDB is making losses every year so that you can buy affordable flats. Really?! :p

if land cost is not taken into consideration...it will be counted as robbing our future generation

i get to know this after reading MBT ebook online

u can disagree la....but i agree to it la....hahaha

[irisng]

Devilplate, ysyap and irisng.......
You all are from rags to riches.........

I had a good childhood.
I grew up in a 3 rm HDB, then 5 rm flat, moved a couple of times later cos my parents bought a condo and we had to rent before the condo TOPed.
All this while I had a room to myself and my brother, his.
But we were scared of ghosts, so we slept with our parents when we were younger, until one day the king size bed actually broke!

That was when my brother and I shifted out of the master bedroom.

Actually not considered very poor also. I still had new clothing, shoes and bags during CNY, hehe. Never get hungry before. Very fortunate.

I'm not rich either, only have a slightly better life than last time.

[irisng]

Is there a housewife happiness index? :D

Yes, my mother-in-law are very happy to be a housewife. She cooks and washes for the family despite being very tired and yet no complains. She is very generous to others but very thrifty to herself.

Then my sister-in-law which is her 2nd daughter is a housewife too. Never really work since she was young. Marry a businessman and stays in a $2m apartment.:scared-1: She seldoms cook, most of the time eat outside or "ta pao" or go to my in-law's house and eat when her children were still young. Most of the time she goes for window shopping or watch HK series. That's why now her newly bought apartment has a big shopping centre just next to hers. But one thing she is quite thrifty, won't buy unnecessary things.

[irisng]

You should pool all your resources together and try to find a bigger place like a landed semi-d or bungalow la. I intend to do that for my children, requesting the married ones to stay in my house lor. Then the couples got to help pay the mortgage also lah.

Vitamin M not enough leh.

[irisng]

Apart from the very rich ones, who can afford to be tai tais, I think most housewives are not a happy lot.
Most become SAHM, cos they want to nurture their kids at the expense of their income and independence.
Also, their husbands become less secure as he becomes the sole bread winner, which can be stressful.
In addition, when a woman stays at home and gets bogged down by housework and child minding, her perspective changes as she may lose touch with the outside world.
This may affect the couple's relationship.

Last time, it is very common for the woman to stay at home to look after the house and children while husband went out to work, it seems to be their job, so happily performing their duties. But now is different, everything so expensive, need both of them to work in order to meet the daily expenses especially when they have children.

Working woman can spend whenever/whatever they like, don't need to keep on asking money from the husband, this might end up in a sour relationship especially when her husband is not earning much.

[kane]

if land cost is not taken into consideration...it will be counted as robbing our future generation

i get to know this after reading MBT ebook online

u can disagree la....but i agree to it la....hahaha

Hence, a fairer system would be to increase the subsidy for the first time buyers. And must filter out those where one quits the job just to qualify for the income ceiling and those where their parents have declared income of over $250k. This is to help even out the wealth distribution for future generations.

[irisng]

If they don't stay together but gather once in a while at your place during special occasions and celebrations. People tends to be more friendly to each others.

相处容易同住难[/quote]

I also think that that's a better idea. I think most of the conflicts will come from mother and daughter-in-law, afterall they are all brought up from different background. This will make things difficult for the son/husband as he doesn't know who to side.

But it might be different if daughter and son-in-law stay with her mother. Normally man don't bother so much and mother-in-law seems to be more tolerant to the son-in-law than daughter-in-law, that's my 1 cts.

As a traditional thinking, when the son-in-law helps with the housework, the mother-in-law will praise him but when the daughter-in-law never do the housework, the mother-in-law will say that she is lazy. :doh: Maybe not all but I think majority will complain.

[fisho]

i mentioned b4 oredi......the cost is not just building your unit alone....how about cost of building infrastructure, roads, nearby amenities like schools, parks if any etc

u guys wana share the whole cost of building a HDB estate or stay status quo?

So the price of your BTO is also pegged to the infrastructure?

[buttercarp]

But it might be different if daughter and son-in-law stay with her mother. Normally man don't bother so much and mother-in-law seems to be more tolerant to the son-in-law than daughter-in-law, that's my 1 cts.

As a traditional thinking, when the son-in-law helps with the housework, the mother-in-law will praise him but when the daughter-in-law never do the housework, the mother-in-law will say that she is lazy. :doh: Maybe not all but I think majority will complain.

That is why I told my son that the day he gets married, he has to shift out of my house. However my daughter is welcomed to stay with me even after marriage.:)
My son will then try to reason with me that he is carrying the family name and should be given priority, but I will tell him that I am not a customary person.

[devilplate]

So the price of your BTO is also pegged to the infrastructure?
nope...but it pegs to land cost which indirectly factors in the cost of infra etc

Wat i m trying to say is tat it dun make any sense to just based on the cost of building your unit....

[devilplate]

Hence, a fairer system would be to increase the subsidy for the first time buyers. And must filter out those where one quits the job just to qualify for the income ceiling and those where their parents have declared income of over $250k. This is to help even out the wealth distribution for future generations.
leave it to kbw to settle liao.....

[Komo]

Nice exhibition they currently have at hdb hub on award winning designs. Many pictures taken who use the facilities are foreigners:D

[fisho]

What is a BTO?

Let's keep to the basic.

[buttercarp]

What is a BTO?

Let's keep to the basic.

BTO = Basic Talks Ominously/ Out of context/ Obsessively/ Offensively etc........

Sorry basic, just can't control myself.
Just trying to cheer everyone up on a sunny Sunday!:-)

[samuelk]

i mentioned b4 oredi......the cost is not just building your unit alone....how about cost of building infrastructure, roads, nearby amenities like schools, parks if any etc

u guys wana share the whole cost of building a HDB estate or stay status quo?

am actually a little confused. KBW and to some extend some of the more widely interviewed property guru has cation against MM units. It seems then that now HDB is also goin that route in size reduction.

so is the cautious advise base on the fact that you better off with a hdb pseudo type MM that is cheaper n slightly bigger or the fact that MM does not have adequate livable space like a hdb designed unit ?

as for coß of infra, I guess they looking at toyota production line concept or cookie cutter way of reducing cost. Kanzai , may not be new but the rate and interpretation is very varied and distinct in how cost can be reduced.

as an exapmle, if the bean counter is to be believe, switching off alternative lights will cut cost. But that also drive down productivity. And the bean counter response would be to get an engineer to relook at the problem but sticking to the guns that the cost saving problem is a necessary evil.

somehow things evovled but people just don't learn that when a mistake has been made, to make good of the problem n not pass it to the next victim of the problem they create

[howgozit]

I think the size is not the decider for having more babies. it's true that the older generation have squeezed more people in a 3 room flat.

it's when both husband and wife need to go out and be economically productive and come home all tired, that's the quality of life that's being traded off, and having children would be much harder when you don't have the mood nor energy for it.

This is very true.

So in essence what Dr Cheong said is statistically correct. Even anecdotal evidence as suggested by forummers here supports her point.

Whether it is desirable or not is a different matter.

[howgozit]

am actually a little confused. KBW and to some extend some of the more widely interviewed property guru has cation against MM units. It seems then that now HDB is also goin that route in size reduction.

so is the cautious advise base on the fact that you better off with a hdb pseudo type MM that is cheaper n slightly bigger or the fact that MM does not have adequate livable space like a hdb designed unit ?

as for coß of infra, I guess they looking at toyota production line concept or cookie cutter way of reducing cost. Kanzai , may not be new but the rate and interpretation is very varied and distinct in how cost can be reduced.

as an exapmle, if the bean counter is to be believe, switching off alternative lights will cut cost. But that also drive down productivity. And the bean counter response would be to get an engineer to relook at the problem but sticking to the guns that the cost saving problem is a necessary evil.

somehow things evovled but people just don't learn that when a mistake has been made, to make good of the problem n not pass it to the next victim of the problem they create

MM is not just about the size of the apartment but more of a residential concept. In that respect, HDB has moved away from MMs rather than towards it. In the beginning, the main bulk of HDB were 3rm and some 1rm flats many of which are still around today but serving a different segment of residents from its conception.

In fact, as far as I know for a long time HDB does not build even 3rm HDB flats anymore.

[kane]

leave it to kbw to settle liao.....

of course, but must offer some constructive suggestion mah.

[ysyap]

This is very true.

So in essence what Dr Cheong said is statistically correct. Even anecdotal evidence as suggested by forummers here supports her point.

Whether it is desirable or not is a different matter.As I've mentioned earlier, her statistical calculations are deeply flawed. 4.9 and 3.5 members per average household is ok but the floor area per occupant is questionable. First, she assumed that standard requirements like beds, kitchen cabinets, refrigerator, wardrobes, dining tables, shrank proportionally when flat sizes became smaller, which is not the case. Last time, an average of 40 sqm used for these fixtures over a larger floor area is similar to now using the same 40 sqm over a smaller floor area for these basic fixtures. Second, last time no big a/c ledges, now there are additional a/c ledges for a smaller floor area. Third, (not sure how true but certainly true for me), there are recess areas under the windows for my hdb flats which are wasted space but last time don't have such wasted space in the hdb flat I was growing up in. Fourth, (again not sure how true but certainly true for me), last time flat don't have the concept of balcony (1980 flats) but nowadays, flats do come with balconies for non corridor flats so that trims the livable floor area even more for our new BTO flats. Statistics are therefore so so misleading!

Furthermore, in terms of quality, last time house cheap so can afford to have quality time with family instead of working like a dog today just to service the huge mortgage loan from HDB flat. What is worse, both husband and wife have to work to service the mortgage. (When I was young, most of my neighbors have the wife staying home like my mother, looking after the kids and still afford their hdb flats.) The rate of price increment of hdb flats (and for that matter all other home types) have risen much faster than pay increment of an average Singaporean worker! :doh:

Is that quality living? Quality is not equal to just space area per occupant, the way she has advocated. Like that how to have children? :scared-5:

[fisho]

As I've mentioned earlier, her statistical calculations are deeply flawed. 4.9 and 3.5 members per average household is ok but the floor area per occupant is questionable. First, she assumed that standard requirements like beds, kitchen cabinets, refrigerator, wardrobes, dining tables, shrank proportionally when flat sizes became smaller, which is not the case. Last time, an average of 40 sqm used for these fixtures over a larger floor area is similar to now using the same 40 sqm over a smaller floor area for these basic fixtures. Second, last time no big a/c ledges, now there are additional a/c ledges for a smaller floor area. Third, (not sure how true but certainly true for me), there are recess areas under the windows for my hdb flats which are wasted space but last time don't have such wasted space in the hdb flat I was growing up in. Fourth, (again not sure how true but certainly true for me), last time flat don't have the concept of balcony (1980 flats) but nowadays, flats do come with balconies for non corridor flats so that trims the livable floor area even more for our new BTO flats. Statistics are therefore so so misleading!

Furthermore, in terms of quality, last time house cheap so can afford to have quality time with family instead of working like a dog today just to service the huge mortgage loan from HDB flat. What is worse, both husband and wife have to work to service the mortgage. (When I was young, most of my neighbors have the wife staying home like my mother, looking after the kids and still afford their hdb flats.) The rate of price increment of hdb flats (and for that matter all other home types) have risen much faster than pay increment of an average Singaporean worker! :doh:

Is that quality living? Quality is not equal to just space area per occupant, the way she has advocated. Like that how to have children? :scared-5:

Agreed totally. Dunno what is MR KBW take on this. :beats-me-man:

[ysyap]

Agreed totally. Dunno what is MR KBW take on this. :beats-me-man:He is calling her to his office to drink coffee tomorrow... how to say things like this? :doh:

[howgozit]

As I've mentioned earlier, her statistical calculations are deeply flawed. 4.9 and 3.5 members per average household is ok but the floor area per occupant is questionable.
Why is it questionable? It seems everybody on this forum have "squeezed" when they were younger (including stories of sleeping in the living room on a mattress or sharing rooms with their siblings). So how is their situation now? Is it still the same? Are these forummers' families still "squeezing"? Are their kids sleeping in the living rooms on a mattress?
Statistics can be presented to favour a certain view. But the numbers in itself are not wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

First, she assumed that standard requirements like beds, kitchen cabinets, refrigerator, wardrobes, dining tables, shrank proportionally when flat sizes became smaller, which is not the case. Last time, an average of 40 sqm used for these fixtures over a larger floor area is similar to now using the same 40 sqm over a smaller floor area for these basic fixtures.
This is a chicken or the egg question, is it possible that furniture/fittings get bigger bcoz the flats got bigger?
btw, I think a queen size bed remains queen sized, if you decide to get a king size bed instead surely you can't blame HDB......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, last time no big a/c ledges, now there are additional a/c ledges for a smaller floor area.
This I agree.. but then... last time how many HDB households have a/c?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Third, (not sure how true but certainly true for me), there are recess areas under the windows for my hdb flats which are wasted space but last time don't have such wasted space in the hdb flat I was growing up in.
Ok... sounds like bad design here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth, (again not sure how true but certainly true for me), last time flat don't have the concept of balcony (1980 flats) but nowadays, flats do come with balconies for non corridor flats so that trims the livable floor area even more for our new BTO flats. Statistics are therefore so so misleading!
The balcony is still considered your own living space and to me is reckonable. Some people actually like having a balcony....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Furthermore, in terms of quality, last time house cheap so can afford to have quality time with family instead of working like a dog today just to service the huge mortgage loan from HDB flat. What is worse, both husband and wife have to work to service the mortgage. (When I was young, most of my neighbors have the wife staying home like my mother, looking after the kids and still afford their hdb flats.) The rate of price increment of hdb flats (and for that matter all other home types) have risen much faster than pay increment of an average Singaporean worker! :doh:

Is that quality living? Quality is not equal to just space area per occupant, the way she has advocated. Like that how to have children? :scared-5:
This part I totally agree with you.
But I still think in terms of personal living space, I think the current generation definitely has more than the previous.

[ysyap]

As I've mentioned earlier, her statistical calculations are deeply flawed. 4.9 and 3.5 members per average household is ok but the floor area per occupant is questionable.
Why is it questionable? It seems everybody on this forum have "squeezed" when they were younger (including stories of sleeping in the living room on a mattress or sharing rooms with their siblings). So how is their situation now? Is it still the same? Are these forummers' families still "squeezing"? Are their kids sleeping in the living rooms on a mattress?
Statistics can be presented to favour a certain view. But the numbers in itself are not wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

First, she assumed that standard requirements like beds, kitchen cabinets, refrigerator, wardrobes, dining tables, shrank proportionally when flat sizes became smaller, which is not the case. Last time, an average of 40 sqm used for these fixtures over a larger floor area is similar to now using the same 40 sqm over a smaller floor area for these basic fixtures.
This is a chicken or the egg question, is it possible that furniture/fittings get bigger bcoz the flats got bigger?
btw, I think a queen size bed remains queen sized, if you decide to get a king size bed instead surely you can't blame HDB......These two paragraphs are basically on the same point. The smaller floor area today still must house the same queen size bed as the larger floor area yesterday. My point is 40 sqm of fixtures have not changed over the years so actually living space is 121 - 40 sqm = 81 sqm yesterday but today, its 110 - 40 sqm = 70 sqm today. More accurate to use these deducted number rather than absolute number. :cheers1:

[devilplate]

These two paragraphs are basically on the same point. The smaller floor area today still must house the same queen size bed as the larger floor area yesterday. My point is 40 sqm of fixtures have not changed over the years so actually living space is 121 - 40 sqm = 81 sqm yesterday but today, its 110 - 40 sqm = 70 sqm today. More accurate to use these deducted number rather than absolute number. :cheers1:
policeman dun wear sorts anymore lah! Whahaha

[august]

This part I totally agree with you.
But I still think in terms of personal living space, I think the current generation definitely has more than the previous.

spore's human density has increased like never before, so on the whole current generation has than the previous.

[howgozit]

These two paragraphs are basically on the same point. The smaller floor area today still must house the same queen size bed as the larger floor area yesterday. My point is 40 sqm of fixtures have not changed over the years so actually living space is 121 - 40 sqm = 81 sqm yesterday but today, its 110 - 40 sqm = 70 sqm today. More accurate to use these deducted number rather than absolute number. :cheers1:

Thanks for your explanation. I see your point and do agree with it.

But I think what Dr Cheong is trying to say is that even though the flats are smaller, there are less occupants in each flat.

[ysyap]

Thanks for your explanation. I see your point and do agree with it.

But I think what Dr Cheong is trying to say is that even though the flats are smaller, there are less occupants in each flat.Yes yes.... I have absolutely no dispute about this point either... then again, after the deduction I've proposed, the space per occupant is still a little bit larger (less than 2 sqm larger) in today's flat than in yesteryear's flat. :cheers1:

[Laguna]

A very good test if she can reveal, when she was young, how much was her household and place she stay

and now how big is her household and area of of her place

and whether she will feel good to stay in a place getting smaller and smaller....

[ysyap]

Quite unlikely that any of our top top civil servants or political leaders stay in HDB coz to qualify, they have to be earning less than $8k/mth which may be the case many many years back. Maybe the WP guys may stay in HDB flats... :cool:

[fclim]

She forgets that today's teens and youngsters are much taller and bigger in size (due to better nutrition) than the puny skinny kids of the seventies. So they need bigger beds, chairs and study desks.

[ysyap]

She forgets that today's teens and youngsters are much taller and bigger in size (due to better nutrition) than the puny skinny kids of the seventies. So they need bigger beds, chairs and study desks.LOL! Along with bigger shoe cabinets, sofa, dining table, etc... :o

[teddybear]

MND & URA didn't counsel HDB CEO? They don't talk to each other?

We were told an occupant today has 31 sqm of space while 25 sqm previously. So why developers can't build MM <500 sqft? Almost double of what a single person can live in comfortably right? :confused:

Smaller flats have not lowered quality of life: HDB CEO
by Esther Ng and Joanne Chan 04:45 AM Nov 11, 2011
SINGAPORE - The shrinking size of public flats here has not lowered Singaporeans' quality of living, according to Housing and Development Board's (HDB) CEO Cheong Koon Hean. Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a housing forum yesterday, Dr Cheong noted that there are now fewer people living in one flat which works out to increased living space per person.

"Our families are smaller. In the old days, we have very large families living in a flat. Today, the family is two, three, four (people)," she said.

As a result of rising land costs and the need to keep flats affordable, the size of HDB flats has shrunk by 5 to 10 per cent over the last two to three decades. For example, a five-room flat in Bukit Batok Central built in 1989 has a floor area of 121 sq m, compared to 110 sq m for a similar unit built in 2003.

Based on official surveys, the average household size was 3.5 last year. In 1980, it was 4.9.

This means an occupant of a 110 sq m five-room flat today will have 31 sq m of space, while a resident of a 121 sq m five-room flat in the '80s had about 25 sq m of space. Dr Cheong added that interior design also plays a part in creating good living space.

"In many global cities of the world or big cities, people do pay attention to how they do the inside of the flat as well as optimising the use of furniture and storage. It can be a very comfortable living environment," she said.

PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail concurred with Dr Cheong: "The modern Singapore family is much smaller and living in a bigger place compared to previous generations, and with amenities. The quality of life is not affected."

Mr Ismail added: "And people have a choice to buy three, four or five-room flats."

Still, Mr Ismail noted that with the high property prices, the lower income with many children will be most affected as they have "no choice but to buy within their means, and that means a smaller flat".



Size matters

Suntec Chesterton International head of research and consultancy Colin Tan disagreed with the suggestion that the smaller flat sizes have not compromised the quality of living.

Mr Tan pointed out that today's modern family needs "at least" a three-bedroom flat with one room for the domestic help or the in-laws.

"And when the children grow up, families will want separate rooms for daughters and sons," Mr Tan said.

Mr Tan noted that unlike the private sector, the HDB does not reduce the size of the kitchen. Instead, it builds smaller bedrooms and this is where Mr Tan believes has the "biggest impact" on the quality of life.

He also argued that Singaporeans, who have become more affluent, have a greater number of possessions which require space. Said Mr Tan: "People who have lived in bigger flats will feel that their quality of life has gone down."

Some flat owners pointed out that it is the size of the unit that affects a couple's decision on the number of children to have. Ms Priscilla Raj, 28, who lives in a five-room Build-To-Order flat, said she was not satisfied with the size of her flat, which might deter her from having more children.

The mother of one said: "(The size) will affect your quality of life - there's no space to have your in-laws or friends to stay over. The cramp makes you feel that you're living in a cell."

[irisng]

My auntie lives in a 2 rooms HDB flat. She has 6 children and all her children are married, each couple has either 2 or 3 children and they are also all grown up, some even got married. During CNY, my brothers, sister and my family went to visit her. We have 16 people altogether. Every year, when we reached her house, only me, my sister, my sister-in-laws and brothers went inside her house, the rest have to either stand outside the house or few units away at the staircase because whether inside or outside, it was fully packed.:doh:

She has an altar, table, TV and sofa (3 seater) at her living hall, (occupying the 4 side of the walls), left with a passage in the centre, which I think still can sleep 2 people.:cheers4:

[ysyap]

My auntie lives in a 2 rooms HDB flat. She has 6 children and all her children are married, each couple has either 2 or 3 children and they are also all grown up, some even got married. During CNY, my brothers, sister and my family went to visit her. We have 16 people altogether. Every year, when we reached her house, only me, my sister, my sister-in-laws and brothers went inside her house, the rest have to either stand outside the house or few units away at the staircase because whether inside or outside, it was fully packed.:doh:

She has an altar, table, TV and sofa (3 seater) at her living hall, (occupying the 4 side of the walls), left with a passage in the centre, which I think still can sleep 2 people.:cheers4:Wah.. don't play play... your rank very high in your family huh? The previleged few to enter the house. :cheers6:

[ysyap]

MND & URA didn't counsel HDB CEO? They don't talk to each other?

We were told an occupant today has 31 sqm of space while 25 sqm previously. So why developers can't build MM <500 sqft? Almost double of what a single person can live in comfortably right? :confused:
Not too late to know that our govt ministries do not communicate. Our dear PM had to come out and say during pre-elections that the congestion in MRT trains is coz LTA was not ready for the high numbers of FW and FTs in our land which MOM allowed in. :doh: MOM don't talk to MOT. This is our lovely govt! :cheers5:

[irisng]

Wah.. don't play play... your rank very high in your family huh? The previleged few to entre the house. :cheers6:

No lah, all the kaypo aunties and uncles go inside, the rest stand outside, haha.

[ysyap]

No lah, all the kaypo aunties and uncles go inside, the rest stand outside, haha.LOL! That's what all the high ranking people say to distract the attention... LOL! :D Share your story with HDB CEO lor... :cheers6:

[kane]

actually, why need to come up with so many funky stories to justify the shrinking size of apartments? just say, land getting more expensive lor, it's a fact and most people have come to terms with that what. Condo 3 bedder from 1700 size become 1200-1300 size people still gwai gwai buy.

[kane]

spend more time focusing on how to help the lower income buy their homes would be more useful and productive.

[devilplate]

actually, why need to come up with so many funky stories to justify the shrinking size of apartments? just say, land getting more expensive lor, it's a fact and most people have come to terms with that what. Condo 3 bedder from 1700 size become 1200-1300 size people still gwai gwai buy.
I aso dun understand.....dun they noe this kind of reasoning sure kena flamed ,bashed and mocked?

[kane]

I aso dun understand.....dun they noe this kind of reasoning sure kena flamed ,bashed and mocked?

there are just some things that shouldn't be said as it risk sounding condescending.

we should offer our part time consultant services to their PR department.

[ikan bilis]

You guys notice the hdb toilet bowl is getting smaller and smaller?… they gave me a mini size during that hdb toilet upgrade…. :scared-4:

[kane]

never experienced toilet upgrade before, can't comment on that.

[mcmlxxvi]

You guys notice the hdb toilet bowl is getting smaller and smaller?… they gave me a mini size during that hdb toilet upgrade…. :scared-4:
This is strange. As society progresses, peoples lifestyle tend towards the sedentary so colourful their asses should get bigger and require bigger wc...

[azeoprop]

They should upgrade to the Japanese style toilet with auto wash and blower dry. :p

[kane]

They should upgrade to the Japanese style toilet with auto wash and blower dry. :p

and a electric powered warm seat?

[ysyap]

You guys notice the hdb toilet bowl is getting smaller and smaller?… they gave me a mini size during that hdb toilet upgrade…. :scared-4:As your name suggests... :D small is good! :p

[ikan bilis]

As your name suggests... :D small is good! :p

hello!.. i don;t swim inside... i sit on it... :cool:

[devilplate]

hello!.. i don;t swim inside... i sit on it... :cool:
hdb is very thoughtful

send u a daily reminder to keep ur bum in gd shape and size ;)

[gn108]

Ya - maybe give you mini-toilet seat for HDB mini-toilet and mini-oven and mini-hoob for mini kitchen ...matching for the mini-bed over the bay-window.

Else how to cramp 6.5m people?

HDB sending us a message - we are becoming HK-like.

Wait till they charge you for the common areas - like stair-wells and lobbies. Whahahaha

[phantom_opera]

In 20y time, count yourself lucky that your condo/HDB is not next to this.

http://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/76098/441266/f/4317366-14-Count-the-flyovers--Shanghai-0.jpg

[ysyap]

In 20y time, count yourself lucky that your condo/HDB is not next to this.

http://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/76098/441266/f/4317366-14-Count-the-flyovers--Shanghai-0.jpgWhat is this? :confused:

[phantom_opera]

What is this? :confused:

Don't you know we have new CTE-PIE flyovers? Having more flyovers cannot be avoided once traffic jam starting to hit everywhere.

[latour]

Don't you know we have new CTE-PIE flyovers? Having more flyovers cannot be avoided once traffic jam starting to hit everywhere.

where the new CTE-PIE flyovers?