View Full Version : Measures to Improve the Living Environment for Non-Landed Residential Estates
Death of small quiet exclusive projects... :-(
http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc11-14.htm
MMs likely to disappear also. TKurau, Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos singled out as immediate problematic estates requiring more stringent regulation of max no of units per 1000sqm plot. MMs will become rare and thus price will go up... ;-) Rentals will also be affected as future launches will not have anything below 2.8k pm due to forced bigger sizes of units and higher share of maintenance fees to cover.
cannot figure out why Jalan Eunos? is it becos of Euhabitat?
there are not many MM in that location as in the Appendix...
This spells e end of bull run for landed properties prices.
Geylang is the worst
Oh ya surprised why Geylang is not singled out. It was mentioned however as part of conservation area. Maybe those fall outside of the plot ratio restrictions or already have strict restrictions... But looking at projects like Centra Suites, Studios, Melosa, Viento, La Fleur, Prime Residence etc I seriously doubt so.
MMs likely to disappear also. TKurau, Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos singled out as immediate problematic estates requiring more stringent regulation of max no of units per 1000sqm plot. MMs will become rare and thus price will go up... ;-) Rentals will also be affected as future launches will not have anything below 2.8k pm due to forced bigger sizes of units and higher share of maintenance fees to cover.
Tot developer would be more worried and home buyer protected.
I think all these ppl nvr know the existence of MM in Geylang
so I just sent to the person in charge of this link
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?p=209022#post209022
and wait for his response...LOL
Average size per unit is 70 sqm! :scared-3:
Death of MM in these areas! :doh:
MMs likely to disappear also. TKurau, Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos singled out as immediate problematic estates requiring more stringent regulation of max no of units per 1000sqm plot. MMs will become rare and thus price will go up... ;-) Rentals will also be affected as future launches will not have anything below 2.8k pm due to forced bigger sizes of units and higher share of maintenance fees to cover.
Average size per unit is 70 sqm! :scared-3:
Death of MM in these areas! :doh:
so, those who bot ::: Huat....
not really, if it is a big piece of land, with townhouses, then they still can build MM, so long as the total number is within the limit.
devilplate
24-11-11, 21:49
Cfm no more enbloc for tk....lol....how to sell all 100sqm per unit?
70sqm still ok....2bdr ....
For plot ratio above 1.4 still can build mm mah....still got mmmmmmmmmmsssssss
think you all are mistaken. The formula is:
Maximum number of DUs per development ≤ (MP Allowable GPR[1] x Site Area)/70 sqm
means cannot build more than certain number of units. It doesnt say how small or big the units can be. E.g. may be build 10 big units and then 2 mm hahaha
Yes, but average per unit must be 70 sqm right? So you will never see whole blocks totally full of MM units all <70 sqm again! :scared-2:
think you all are mistaken. The formula is:
Maximum number of DUs per development ≤ (MP Allowable GPR[1] x Site Area)/70 sqm
means cannot build more than certain number of units. It doesnt say how small or big the units can be. E.g. may be build 10 big units and then 2 mm hahaha
Based on URA's Master Plan 2008, Geylang's plot ratio is 2.8.
Maybe that's why it isn't singled out in the URA circular?
Are the lorongs wider than those in TK/Kovan/Jalan Eunos areas?
1,000 sqm = 10,763 sqft
By formula, max allowable units in TK will be 1.4 x 1000 / 100 = 14
For others low-rise landed plots will be 1.4 x 1000 / 70 = 20
Quick check on recent launches based only on plot size (only 5-storey max ones):
Rezi 26: 26,625 sf PASS
Water Edge: 17,073 sf PASS
Viento: 8,203 FAIL
Prime Residence: 7,707 FAIL
Melosa: 9,701 FAIL
Central Imperial: 14,446 PASS
Suites @ Eunos: 10,632 FAIL - ALMOST PASS
EIS Residences: 7,630 FAIL
Kovan Grandeur: 28,655 PASS
The Vue: 18,197 PASS
Loft @ Rangoon: 4,922 SUPER FAIL
Vibes @ Kovan: 7,783 FAIL (but GPR 3.0)
Based on URA's Master Plan 2008, Geylang's plot ratio is 2.8.
Maybe that's why it isn't singled out in the URA circular?
Are the lorongs wider than those in TK/Kovan/Jalan Eunos areas?
strange, 2.8 plot ratio with a height control of 5 storey if not wrong
traffic at least 3 times worst
Yes, but average per unit must be 70 sqm right? So you will never see whole blocks totally full of MM units all <70 sqm again! :scared-2:
it actually doesnt say how small the unit can go..
e.g. GPR = 1.4, say land size is 1000 sqm
so max number of units allowed to build must be equal or less than = (1.4 x 1000)/70 = 20 units
since GFA = 1400 sqm, avg size of unit (assuming 20 units) = 1400/20 = 70 sqm.
but developer can also build less units e.g. two MM each 25 sqm plus 10 big units each 135 sqm. :D
strange, 2.8 plot ratio with a height control of 5 storey if not wrong
traffic at least 3 times worst
Weird indeed. But one thing for sure. The authorities are listening to the feedback from the ground indeed and taking action! Really commendable.
it actually doesnt say how small the unit can go..
e.g. GPR = 1.4, say land size is 1000 sqm
so max number of units allowed to build must be equal or less than = (1.4 x 1000)/70 = 20 units
since GFA = 1400 sqm, avg size of unit (assuming 20 units) = 1400/20 = 70 sqm.
but developer can also build less units e.g. two MM each 25 sqm plus 10 big units each 135 sqm. :D
Sure, but to go to such extremes of having super small units alongside big luxurious ones will not really do well for the project right? The two segments are quite mutually exclusive, ie one doesn't like to live in same complex as the other...
But they can't build more than 20 units of 70 sqm MM! That is to say, e.g. they can't build 40 units of MM each of 35 sqm! (e.g. like Prestige Height). :tsk-tsk:
it actually doesnt say how small the unit can go..
e.g. GPR = 1.4, say land size is 1000 sqm
so max number of units allowed to build must be equal or less than = (1.4 x 1000)/70 = 20 units
since GFA = 1400 sqm, avg size of unit (assuming 20 units) = 1400/20 = 70 sqm.
but developer can also build less units e.g. two MM each 25 sqm plus 10 big units each 135 sqm. :D
Hmmm...So does it also means that MM++ units have to be made more affordable by developer for it to sell?
Hmmm...So does it also means that MM++ units have to be made more affordable by developer for it to sell?
I think we will simply see a lot less of them. If there is a cap on number of units in a plot, and you have that much an area, you will build units large enough to cover all allowed areas.
I think we will simply see a lot less of them. If there is a cap on number of units in a plot, and you have that much an area, you will build units large enough to cover all allowed areas.
seems like mm units might gona be a collectors item soon..:cheers6:
so in actual fact,is it a good thing or bad thing from investors point of view for this new rule to take place?:cheers6:
I don't think it spells the end of MMs.
MMs are still money spinners for developers as they command the high psfs. This move however puts more constraints on the developers on how they can build.
The way developers think is like any other business, ie. what are the returns? Basically what it means is that they will just price it accordingly to achieve the same returns as they did before rule or no rule, so chances are.. they will price up.
Unless Basic's predictions come true (which I don't discount)... prices may head north bcoz of this
Maybe we will see the birth of 4 bedder MMs at 100sqm, 3 bedder MM at 70sqm. Sell at standard 4 bedder and 3 bedder price. Dual key 70sqm and triple key 100sqm MM units.
:rolleyes:
edwinleeap
25-11-11, 05:45
Maybe we will see the birth of 4 bedder MMs at 100sqm, 3 bedder MM at 70sqm. Sell at standard 4 bedder and 3 bedder price. Dual key 70sqm and triple key 100sqm MM units.
:rolleyes:
You may just be right. Sharp mind. Implications could mean lesser big sized 3 to 4 bedders.
I thought it is an indirect rule to clamp down on MM.
Most MM apartments are studios,1, 1+1 or 2 bedders, a just a few 3 bedders. If this restricts the number of smaller MMs, then there is little incentive for developers to build 3 or 4 bedders MMs: assume 800 sqft 3 bedders x $1400 psf = $1.12 million - hard to sell. MMs are suppose to have lower quantum and lower risk for developers and buyers.
It is very likely that developers will not risk at this economic condition to build so many larger MMs. This translates to lower chances of landed property being sold for MM development. Hence, preserving the landed property ambience.
i welcome this new regulation.
the quantum will not change, but the psf will drop, which will calm areas like TK. it is way overboard that a 800sqft unit can cross the $1million dollar mark in TK/Joo Chiat.
what i foresee is that while en-bloc sales will definitely be more cautious in plot 1.4 areas now, but it will also protect the reputation/status of landed in these areas. landed will become even MORE rare now and i am glad that they are curbing small-time developers from building monster units next to relaxing landed property.
as for whether MMs will be in 'demand', i must say that it is still 'untested'....as in how high rentals can go in TK/Joo Chiat areas. MMs in CCRs definitely no prob, it is the more niche areas like TK/Joo Chiat that needs more caution.
MMs will actually rejuvenate the character of Geylang (old and messy now) and hence URA is not really concerned. whereas there are many landed residents in TK who have a bigger voice in pushing their MPs to do something.
i welcome this new regulation.
the quantum will not change, but the psf will drop, which will calm areas like TK. it is way overboard that a 800sqft unit can cross the $1million dollar mark in TK/Joo Chiat.
what i foresee is that while en-bloc sales will definitely be more cautious in plot 1.4 areas now, but it will also protect the reputation/status of landed in these areas. landed will become even MORE rare now and i am glad that they are curbing small-time developers from building monster units next to relaxing landed property.
as for whether MMs will be in 'demand', i must say that it is still 'untested'....as in how high rentals can go in TK/Joo Chiat areas. MMs in CCRs definitely no prob, it is the more niche areas like TK/Joo Chiat that needs more caution.
MMs will actually rejuvenate the character of Geylang (old and messy now) and hence URA is not really concerned. whereas there are many landed residents in TK who have a bigger voice in pushing their MPs to do something.
I tot u r looking to buy MM in TK? This rule will reduce new launch. Better grab one now.
I tot u r looking to buy MM in TK? This rule will reduce new launch. Better grab one now.
actually no not interested in MMs. i am looking for a comfortable 900-1100sqft unit for myself in TK. currently staying in landed and my agent said he has a list of potential expat families arriving after xmas, so maybe will rent out my landed and move into a small apt instead.
How can the $PSF drop unless you are talking about developers selling at a loss? Inflation so high that building costs have gone up, every thing has gone up, and still will, remember, inflation 5% last quarter! Actual inflation on the ground will be x2 = 10%! :scared-1:
i welcome this new regulation.
the quantum will not change, but the psf will drop, which will calm areas like TK. it is way overboard that a 800sqft unit can cross the $1million dollar mark in TK/Joo Chiat.
what i foresee is that while en-bloc sales will definitely be more cautious in plot 1.4 areas now, but it will also protect the reputation/status of landed in these areas. landed will become even MORE rare now and i am glad that they are curbing small-time developers from building monster units next to relaxing landed property.
as for whether MMs will be in 'demand', i must say that it is still 'untested'....as in how high rentals can go in TK/Joo Chiat areas. MMs in CCRs definitely no prob, it is the more niche areas like TK/Joo Chiat that needs more caution.
MMs will actually rejuvenate the character of Geylang (old and messy now) and hence URA is not really concerned. whereas there are many landed residents in TK who have a bigger voice in pushing their MPs to do something.
How can the $PSF drop unless you are talking about developers selling at a loss? Inflation so high that building costs have gone up, every thing has gone up, and still will, remember, inflation 5% last quarter! Actual inflation on the ground will be x2 = 10%! :scared-1:
Thx to this new rule, existing MM psf will go up slightly. But I welcome this new rule to reduce supply of MM n preserve e nice landed neighbourhood of MM.
How can the $PSF drop unless you are talking about developers selling at a loss? Inflation so high that building costs have gone up, every thing has gone up, and still will, remember, inflation 5% last quarter! Actual inflation on the ground will be x2 = 10%! :scared-1:
cool it, man. i know many bros here are vested in TK, and of course i want everyone to huat. what i meant was - units will be bigger than before for future 'boutique developments' and hence psf will be more 'reasonable'.
e.g. 1BR 450 sqft now costs ~ $650K ($1444 psf) will probably not be in existence with the new regulations and hence future 1BR smallest 1BR could be about 580sqft with the same quantum of $650K (assuming buyers in TK are very price sensitive and that will translate a drop in psf to $1120psf).
if i have it my way, properties should be on bull runs forever. but we know this is not possible.
inflation has peaked at 5% and such indicators usually signals that more policies and regulations have to come in keeping inflation SUSTAINABLE. market watchers also think that inflation will probably be curbed once the full financial crisis happens.
Will the new 1.4 plot ratio restriction lead to more cluster housing?
Will the new 1.4 plot ratio restriction lead to more cluster housing?
that's the assumption that developers are able to convince at least 10 landed houses to give up their land to them. the costs will be too high for developers. unless FEO lor...sell super expensive 'townhouses'...
wrt your take on the psf, I don't think it will happen that way.
wrt perpetual property bullrun, won't happen too. in fact I don't wish for it to happen either.
if bullrun forever there is no money too be made... sell expensive buy even more expensive... difficult to make money. we need peaks and throughs, then can huat...
of course like that also means while some huat, some will "jia chao"(eat grass). unfortunately that is the way things are... if there are winners there must be losers.
cool it, man. i know many bros here are vested in TK, and of course i want everyone to huat. what i meant was - units will be bigger than before for future 'boutique developments' and hence psf will be more 'reasonable'.
e.g. 1BR 450 sqft now costs ~ $650K ($1444 psf) will probably not be in existence with the new regulations and hence future 1BR smallest 1BR could be about 580sqft with the same quantum of $650K (assuming buyers in TK are very price sensitive and that will translate a drop in psf to $1120psf).
if i have it my way, properties should be on bull runs forever. but we know this is not possible.
inflation has peaked at 5% and such indicators usually signals that more policies and regulations have to come in keeping inflation SUSTAINABLE. market watchers also think that inflation will probably be curbed once the full financial crisis happens.
that's the assumption that developers are able to convince at least 10 landed houses to give up their land to them.
I meant enbloc apartments/condo to build cluster houses like the Whitely Rd project.....
seems like mm units might gona be a collectors item soon..:cheers6:
so in actual fact,is it a good thing or bad thing from investors point of view for this new rule to take place?:cheers6:
For me I have to say GOOD for sure. Look at my nick. Vested already. But objectively, I predict how the market reacts will be that there will no more be low quantum small units in/near city area. Unless the plot ratio allows it, which is unlikely except maybe for Balestier which was not highlighted yet. Even if developer throw in some MM in otherwise large family oriented projects, buyer who value privacy and detest noisy kids etc will not go for such. So current MM owners huat ah as it will be more rare and rare means in higher demand due to lower affordable quantum...
wrt your take on the psf, I don't think it will happen that way.
i know it's hard to predict how the market will evolve - my whole point is that MMs have distorted PSF values, and hence there will definitely be less distorted prices in the future. :cheers5:
How can the $PSF drop unless you are talking about developers selling at a loss? Inflation so high that building costs have gone up, every thing has gone up, and still will, remember, inflation 5% last quarter! Actual inflation on the ground will be x2 = 10%! :scared-1:
Agree totally. The end goal for any developer especially MM ones is to maximise profits. The fact they packed the units means they only have one thing on their minds - $. Anyone who expects them to reduce profits are foolish. Assuming the prices are maintained, in order to sustain the margins, they will either build bigger and multiple balconies (imagine one in living, one in bedroom, one in kitchen, one in yard) and use less quality materials. So theoretically you have a 700sf unit at more manageable 1200psf but liveable area is only 450sf. Effectively you still pay 1866psf.
Maybe we will see the birth of 4 bedder MMs at 100sqm, 3 bedder MM at 70sqm. Sell at standard 4 bedder and 3 bedder price. Dual key 70sqm and triple key 100sqm MM units.
:rolleyes:
Yes I did think dual keys may become more popular as a result too...
It long over due, they r sleeping on their job.
Look at telok kurau, Rangoon road, joo chiat,
The traffic are living nightmare ...
Mech carpk and that oxley make it even more jia lat
Your comment remind me of st patr residence, balcony all over the place....
And forums hot fav aristo@amber, ha ha
Agree totally. The end goal for any developer especially MM ones is to maximise profits. The fact they packed the units means they only have one thing on their minds - $. Anyone who expects them to reduce profits are foolish. Assuming the prices are maintained, in order to sustain the margins, they will either build bigger and multiple balconies (imagine one in living, one in bedroom, one in kitchen, one in yard) and use less quality materials. So theoretically you have a 700sf unit at more manageable 1200psf but liveable area is only 450sf. Effectively you still pay 1866psf.
How the mkt will react , not sure ?sometime policy backfire,
Sometine it work as plan...
End of the day, a decent size unit, a good size pool and landscapes
And surfaced carpk or basement , no mech crap carpk pls
It long over due, they r sleeping on their job.
Look at telok kurau, Rangoon road, joo chiat,
The traffic are living nightmare ...
Mech carpk and that oxley make it even more jia lat
Yes. Parc Somme is one good example... The roads leading to it are already so so narrow, difficult for existing shophouses visitors to turn around liao.
devilplate
25-11-11, 12:00
I don't think it spells the end of MMs.
MMs are still money spinners for developers as they command the high psfs. This move however puts more constraints on the developers on how they can build.
The way developers think is like any other business, ie. what are the returns? Basically what it means is that they will just price it accordingly to achieve the same returns as they did before rule or no rule, so chances are.. they will price up.
Unless Basic's predictions come true (which I don't discount)... prices may head north bcoz of this
it spells the end of MM of 3xx to 4xx sqft mini mouse for PR of 1.4
places like D1,2 can still build MMs like nobody biz
devilplate
25-11-11, 12:03
cool it, man. i know many bros here are vested in TK, and of course i want everyone to huat. what i meant was - units will be bigger than before for future 'boutique developments' and hence psf will be more 'reasonable'.
e.g. 1BR 450 sqft now costs ~ $650K ($1444 psf) will probably not be in existence with the new regulations and hence future 1BR smallest 1BR could be about 580sqft with the same quantum of $650K (assuming buyers in TK are very price sensitive and that will translate a drop in psf to $1120psf).
if i have it my way, properties should be on bull runs forever. but we know this is not possible.
inflation has peaked at 5% and such indicators usually signals that more policies and regulations have to come in keeping inflation SUSTAINABLE. market watchers also think that inflation will probably be curbed once the full financial crisis happens.
actually resale market for bigger units in TK can get for 1k-1.1kpsf now wat even b4 the new rules kick in....so i dun understand u point of view seriously
To be fair, the pool size ,landscapes are minimum but at least decent carpk, for my current apartment as it also on a small piece of land
Price are so high in 2010....
Of course, it even higher now
Grab b4 it goes higher! Supplies r being cut. Next time singles will buy from u upon TOP.
seems like mm units might gona be a collectors item soon..:cheers6:
so in actual fact,is it a good thing or bad thing from investors point of view for this new rule to take place?:cheers6:
What makes MM competitive is the quantum.
The moment a bigger sized studio unit sells at similar quantum it will make MM uncompetitive. In other words the upside for MM is not only capped but is also at the mercy of others.
not vested anyway...
devilplate
25-11-11, 14:31
What makes MM competitive is the quantum.
The moment a bigger sized studio unit sells at similar quantum it will make MM uncompetitive. In other words the upside for MM is not only capped but is also at the mercy of others.
not vested anyway...
If u look at mm of 3xxsqft vs 5xxsqft normal sized 1bdr in similar locations....oredi got diff of about 200-300psf .....even so within the same project itself.....
In other words, dun expect to haf similar quantum.....remember a 388sqft mm only 38.8k for every 100psf
When land cost/px drops....another story liao....every other types will also drop tgt....drop more or less nia
devilplate
25-11-11, 14:37
388sqftx1500psf=582k
560sqftx1300psf=728k
Both 1bdr config.....
Gems or not, really it not v clear...
Really, 3xx and 4xx one bedder is small , v small
Grab b4 it goes higher! Supplies r being cut. Next time singles will buy from u upon TOP.
Yeap, that the source of price distortion.....due to mm
388sqftx1500psf=582k
560sqftx1300psf=728k
Both 1bdr config.....
Given the shrinking size of apartments, MM still have a market value. It is those big units that have limited growth in value because of the large quantum.
e.g. 3 bedder 893sqft vs 2 bedder 980sqft.
e.g. 2 bedder 710sqft vs 1 bedder 700sqft.
:beats-me-man:
devilplate
25-11-11, 15:30
Gems or not, really it not v clear...
Really, 3xx and 4xx one bedder is small , v small
Get those ard 800sqft 2bdr lor without baywindows and big balcony....i find it the bestest ideal size for own stay and/or investment liao
2bdr nvr runs out of fashion
I was thinking from flexibility perspective and 100% agreed.
2 bedder, most flexi configuration
Get those ard 800sqft 2bdr lor without baywindows and big balcony....i find it the bestest ideal size for own stay and/or investment liao
2bdr nvr runs out of fashion
Actually, if they used a bit of brain,
It even simpler.
No mech carpk ...and basement carpk need to approve
Only surfaced carpk.
Simple math then mean each of these projt around 10-25 units max,
Eg Azurro, adara, tembeling court, ...or extreme ceylon pt, etc
U will need bigger land to built >30 eg ambra, verte, lucent,, beacon edge, malvern springs,
In the meantime, short oxley until it delisted.
A subject matter expert like many of the senior forumer can craft better policy than oversea colombo plan elite,
Joke....
Landed properties are simply not using land efficiently.
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