View Full Version : Govt Next Target will be HDB market..
Recently a lot of talk related to hdb resale...etc etc i think govt next move going to hit this market...:o
i may be wrong...only kbw knows...:D
ikan bilis
21-01-12, 14:40
aiya... why need to cm hdb ??... correct past mistakes can liow...
- just build enough bto, clear backlog or can create "pre-build" hdb even better
- throw out lots of ec sites, 2-3 yrs later resale hdb market will be flooded
- allow singles >40yr old to buy from bto/ec, remove those demand from resale market
- tweak dbss, come out with new dbss2 rule, any timer (1st, 2nd, 3rd) can buy dbss2 but no subsidy, dbss2 will be treated as resale hdb. dbss2 does not take up any entitlement to buy direct bto/ec from hdb... keep injecting dbss2 until resale market collapse...
;)
Regulators
21-01-12, 15:06
80% of singaporeans own hdb, if kbw cause hdb prices to drop drastically, it means causing the wealth of majority of singaporeans to be reduced (as most average singaporeans have their money locked up in hdb). If kbw does that, he is causing pap to tread on thin ice and they will probably lose more votes in the next election.
HDB resale not cheonging like crazy. you can see it from the resale prices.
Recently a lot of talk related to hdb resale...etc etc i think govt next move going to hit this market...:o
i may be wrong...only kbw knows...:D
got alot of new BTO flats coming out meh...
will auto affect resale flat :D:D
don't need CM :D
Good to have HDB built more flats so that the younger generation sporeans can have access to affordable flats just like we did. Whether HDB prices correct downwards or not I don't really care since I will not sell.
Allthepies
21-01-12, 16:28
Good to have HDB built more flats so that the younger generation sporeans can have access to affordable flats just like we did. Whether HDB prices correct downwards or not I don't really care since I will not sell.
Good tat u dont need to sell, there are many others who need to though...
Allthepies
21-01-12, 16:30
Good to have HDB built more flats so that the younger generation sporeans can have access to affordable flats just like we did. Whether HDB prices correct downwards or not I don't really care since I will not sell.
Actually the current new flats are still affordable to the younger generations, just tat a handful of them want to stay town area and therefore become "unaffordable" :doh:
80% of singaporeans own hdb, if kbw cause hdb prices to drop drastically, it means causing the wealth of majority of singaporeans to be reduced (as most average singaporeans have their money locked up in hdb). If kbw does that, he is causing pap to tread on thin ice and they will probably lose more votes in the next election.
Kbw and garment is definitely not no brainer till wanting to do this. It's total suicide.
Kbw and garment is definitely not no brainer till wanting to do this. It's total suicide.
1997 hdb crashed but papee got 75% votes in 2001.. :scared-1:
2011 hdb got so expensive but papee votes dropped until 60%/.. :beats-me-man:
Kbw and garment is definitely not no brainer till wanting to do this. It's total suicide.
1997 hdb crashed but papee got 75% votes in 2001.. :scared-1:
2011 hdb got so expensive but papee votes dropped until 60%.. :beats-me-man:
Crash, crash lor. Singaporeans asked for it in the first place.
For the market to drop (which is what everyone is screaming for), the only way is to target the biggest sector - that 80% living in HDB flats. Targeting that 20% is useless! They should (1) change the minimum occupancy for HDBs to 10 years, (2) remove COV completely, (3) impose a full refund of government subsidy when HDB owners sell their properties. That subsidy was meant to help them buy their first flat for a home, and not to make money. If they can upgrade to a better property, they should not need that subsidy and should refund.
1997 hdb crashed but papee got 75% votes in 2001.. :scared-1:
2011 hdb got so expensive but papee votes dropped until 60%.. :beats-me-man:
:D :D :D
ok, govt can go ahead to crash the props market,yet regain votes back to 75%..
:D :D :D
ok, govt can go ahead to crash the props market,yet regain votes back to 75%..
actually sinkaporeans need to understand that they cannot make money from hdb if they intend to die in sinkapore when they are old.. only PRs can make money from HDB..
during 1988 3 rm = 25k and 5 rm = 65k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 40k top up..
now 3 rm = 300k and 5 rm = 650k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 350k top up..
40k or 350k loan pending better? increased in value is useless if you cannot sell it and make money.. in the end you got lesser money for education, rolexes, holidays..
actually sinkaporeans need to understand that they cannot make money from hdb if they intend to die in sinkapore when they are old.. only PRs can make money from HDB..
during 1988 3 rm = 25k and 5 rm = 65k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 40k top up..
now 3 rm = 300k and 5 rm = 650k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 350k top up..
40k or 350k loan pending better? increased in value is useless if you cannot sell it and make money.. in the end you got lesser money for education, rolexes, holidays..
1988 4 rm = 83k, sell in 1995 for 285k profit after sale 180k.
1996 5 rm = 225k + 25k = 250k, rent 2.4k val about 600k.
1996 3 rm = 65k after -30k for in law val 300k.
2006 buy 2 Bedroom for 535k paid 20% rent 4k val about 1500k
2011 cash out 2 bedroom buy 3+1 penthouse 1350k waiting TOP.
Who say HDB cannot make money?
Property price up or down still PAP.
We need better statistics:
Yes, 80% voters are staying in HDB.
But, how many will be downgraders?
Only downgraders are afraid of price crash.
Those who stay put in HDB don't care about the price. It is a utility like your shirt or TV set. You are unlikely to sell it just because price is up. Indeed, some private bank simply don't count your primary residential place as "investable asset".
Those upgraders are hedged. So HDB resale price crash is more likely to hit mass market condo price rather than hitting these people.
The percentage of downgraders is very small (<10%?) That explains HDB price crash has little impact for PAP to win high votes.
Thanks,
Richard
Drop the COV system, and make loan available at 95% of total selling price.
Thanks,
Richard
These PRs are real resourceful! After moving overseas, they still keeping their HDB flats in Singapore for rental! Some even better, Husband & wife, whole family can move overseas except left behind 1 spouse working in SG, rent a room or live with friend & relative & rent out their HDB for very good $$$ ! Time for gov to plunge all these loop holes!
actually sinkaporeans need to understand that they cannot make money from hdb if they intend to die in sinkapore when they are old.. only PRs can make money from HDB..
during 1988 3 rm = 25k and 5 rm = 65k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 40k top up..
now 3 rm = 300k and 5 rm = 650k.. if upgrade from 3 to 5 rm = 350k top up..
40k or 350k loan pending better? increased in value is useless if you cannot sell it and make money.. in the end you got lesser money for education, rolexes, holidays..
These PRs are real resourceful! After moving overseas, they still keeping their HDB flats in Singapore for rental! Some even better, Husband & wife, whole family can move overseas except left behind 1 spouse working in SG, rent a room or live with friend & relative & rent out their HDB for very good $$$ ! Time for gov to plunge all these loop holes!
You are pressing the government to clamp down on whole unit HDB rental so that foreign workers can only rent whole unit from private condos. This will push up the rental demand for private condos. I think you are a landlord with several private condos (but no HDB) for rent, in view of your strong opinion in this issue.
You are outdated? Last time population young, so many young voters & many wanting to buy hDB flats or upgrade to bigger place for growing families, so HDB prices drop better! Also don't have transport & flooding etc problems like now. Also that time property price crash because of global recession & not due to cooling measures!
Now, many are reaching retirement age, many need to downgrade to smaller units (regardless of HDB or private) to cash out. If prices crash, how to downgrade & cash out? Remember, in a crash, bigger units drop much faster & more than smaller units!
Don't believe? Ask gov to crash all property prices, call for snap Election & see whether they get voted out or they get more votes? :doh:
The drop in votes are more because:
- many 45-62 years old difficult to find jobs
- many frustrated with problematic transport
- constant flooding
- many believe in having more voices in parliament, not necessarily anti-PAP.
......
We need better statistics:
Yes, 80% voters are staying in HDB.
But, how many will be downgraders?
Only downgraders are afraid of price crash.
Those who stay put in HDB don't care about the price. It is a utility like your shirt or TV set. You are unlikely to sell it just because price is up. Indeed, some private bank simply don't count your primary residential place as "investable asset".
Those upgraders are hedged. So HDB resale price crash is more likely to hit mass market condo price rather than hitting these people.
The percentage of downgraders is very small (<10%?) That explains HDB price crash has little impact for PAP to win high votes.
Thanks,
Richard
Regardless of whatever, why should citizens allow PRs to exploit Singapore & benefit from HDB flats when they are no longer in Singapore & HDB should be reserved for own living only as a matter of gov policies since HDB's establishment? Citizens who require instant resale HDB flats have been seriously disadvantaged & forced to pay sky high prices while these ex-PRs still benefitting when they are no longer in Singapore?
You are pressing the government to clamp down on whole unit HDB rental so that foreign workers can only rent whole unit from private condos. This will push up the rental demand for private condos. I think you are a landlord with several private condos (but no HDB) for rent, in view of your strong opinion in this issue.
Regardless of whatever, why should citizens allow PRs to exploit Singapore & benefit from HDB flats when they are no longer in Singapore & HDB should be reserved for own living only as a matter of gov policies since HDB's establishment? Citizens who require instant resale HDB flats have been seriously disadvantaged & forced to pay sky high prices while these ex-PRs still benefitting when they are no longer in Singapore?
I had earlier questioned the capability of the HDB management. I'm not sure what they are doing in office daily actually. BCA is another one that keeps the loop-holes of planter, balcony etc open to abuse by developers.
This I strongly agree! Imagine a 1200 sqft unit with all those useless space that takes up >20% of total area? :doh:
Why need to give free GFA to developers? If can give free should also be free for buyers! :p
I had earlier questioned the capability of the HDB management. I'm not sure what they are doing in office daily actually. BCA is another one that keeps the loop-holes of planter, balcony etc open to abuse by developers.
This I strongly agree! Imagine a 1200 sqft unit with all those useless space that takes up >20% of total area? :doh:
Why need to give free GFA to developers? If can give free should also be free for buyers! :p
It is very unfair to protect the HDB owners who are renting their apartments out. First and foremost, HDB is public housing as opposed to private housing. That is why there are subsidies and all to make them available for those who need a home to have a roof over their head. HDBs are not rental assets! And yet, so many HDB owners are renting their apartment out blatantly. There are still many owners cutting up the entire apartment into rental rooms, allowing foreign students and workers to stay. What next? Are people going to buy government-subsidied factories and turn them into hostels for their own profits?
It is very unfair to protect the HDB owners who are renting their apartments out. First and foremost, HDB is public housing as opposed to private housing. That is why there are subsidies and all to make them available for those who need a home to have a roof over their head. HDBs are not rental assets! And yet, so many HDB owners are renting their apartment out blatantly. There are still many owners cutting up the entire apartment into rental rooms, allowing foreign students and workers to stay. What next? Are people going to buy government-subsidied factories and turn them into hostels for their own profits?
write here no use, write to hdb lor...
Relax, we all know a crash of re-sale HDB price means mass condo upgraders will have no money to pay S$1000++ for 99 LH. It will hit private condo hard.
But it will also mean new HDB price will need to drop, government land sale price for private also need to drop.
The biggest loser will be the government, so it won't happen.
As for voters, how many percentage of old folks have actually downgraded? When I look around, most just leave the rooms there for their children to come once a while. Some just rent out a room. We need the statistics for actual downgraders. My gut feel is less than 10% of the voters.
They intentionally not publish this figure, so they can always say it is the 80% HDB "owners" who don't want HDB price to drop.
Thanks,
Richard
Well said 😃
write here no use, write to hdb lor...
It is very unfair to protect the HDB owners who are renting their apartments out. First and foremost, HDB is public housing as opposed to private housing. That is why there are subsidies and all to make them available for those who need a home to have a roof over their head. HDBs are not rental assets! And yet, so many HDB owners are renting their apartment out blatantly. There are still many owners cutting up the entire apartment into rental rooms, allowing foreign students and workers to stay. What next? Are people going to buy government-subsidied factories and turn them into hostels for their own profits?
It is certainly a big loophole. It's obvious that many people own both a HDB and PC. Compare to a person who owns one PC and another who owns one PC plus HDB, who needs more help? Neither :) The government should look after those who only own HDB.
It is certainly a big loophole. It's obvious that many people own both a HDB and PC. Compare to a person who owns one PC and another who owns one PC plus HDB, who needs more help? Neither :) The government should look after those who only own HDB.
Wrong... Govt should look after those who struggling to own their first hdb. After that, should not interfere. KBW said he achieved that...now now he now wanna help the second timers - thats out of league and purely for brownie election points..
It is very unfair to protect the HDB owners who are renting their apartments out. First and foremost, HDB is public housing as opposed to private housing. That is why there are subsidies and all to make them available for those who need a home to have a roof over their head. HDBs are not rental assets! And yet, so many HDB owners are renting their apartment out blatantly. There are still many owners cutting up the entire apartment into rental rooms, allowing foreign students and workers to stay. What next? Are people going to buy government-subsidied factories and turn them into hostels for their own profits?They are not protecting HDB owners.... they're protecting themselves. If they shut this rental market, they will have to reproduce many many many more cheap units to house these foreigners. Otherwise they'll all go home and our country will be caught in a deep crisis! :scared-4:
1988 4 rm = 83k, sell in 1995 for 285k profit after sale 180k.
1996 5 rm = 225k + 25k = 250k, rent 2.4k val about 600k.
1996 3 rm = 65k after -30k for in law val 300k.
2006 buy 2 Bedroom for 535k paid 20% rent 4k val about 1500k
2011 cash out 2 bedroom buy 3+1 penthouse 1350k waiting TOP.
Who say HDB cannot make money?
Property price up or down still PAP.
sell liao stay where? sinkaporeans cannot make money from hdb if the average person is holding only one hdb..:doh:
sell liao stay where? sinkaporeans cannot make money from hdb if the average person is holding only one hdb..:doh:
Bought 5 rm lease start 1997.
rent 2.4k x 12 = 28.8k per year 28.8k x balance of lease(84years)=2,419k
Why kill the golden goose to get the golden egg.
Bought 5 rm lease start 1997.
rent 2.4k x 12 = 28.8k per year 28.8k x balance of lease(84years)=2,419k
Why kill the golden goose to get the golden egg.
that are those who made money.. how about the youngest who cannot afford to buy? papee now is concern about votes.. another 6% drop means becoming 54% liao.. 30 seats will be gone..
that are those who made money.. how about the youngest who cannot afford to buy? papee now is concern about votes.. another 6% drop means becoming 54% liao.. 30 seats will be gone..
They can try to please the younger ones who cannot afford to buy, at the expense of the middle income people who will form the majority of the voters in the end. They can certainly try!
They can try to please the younger ones who cannot afford to buy, at the expense of the middle income people who will form the majority of the voters in the end. They can certainly try!
everything also market forces control one lah.. even papee cannot do much if the market is going down.. banks loaned out 116 billion in housing loans.. and dunno how much is loaned out to FTs and PRs.. really is huat liao.. :doh:
They can try to please the younger ones who cannot afford to buy, at the expense of the middle income people who will form the majority of the voters in the end. They can certainly try!
What's new?
Their moves and measures are pleasing the young at the expense of middle income. Isn't it?
Pleasing the 20% non homeowners at expense of 80% homeowners
Why please 10% of multiple home owners? Of cos they are also in the this 10%
Now they have to ensure the rest of te population needs are addressed as too. Not only 1st time buyers feeling the fire but also those upgraders. Since 2005, the gap between housing class has grown bigger.
bottom line is dun speculate in public housing.. if private then no issues.. think of the poorer citizens..
They can try to please the younger ones who cannot afford to buy, at the expense of the middle income people who will form the majority of the voters in the end. They can certainly try!
when they tried to pleased the younger ones who cant buy,
also pleasing those who wanna upgrade to bigger hdb, EC or condos.
so it's ok that they are trying:D
when they tried to pleased the younger ones who cant buy,
also pleasing those who wanna upgrade to bigger hdb, EC or condos.
so it's ok that they are trying:D
The subsidies for public housing have to come from somewhere...
The subsidies for public housing have to come from somewhere...
u know, i know, everybody know la..:doh: :doh:
Please stop raiding the reserves! :hell-hath-no-fury:
that are those who made money.. how about the youngest who cannot afford to buy? papee now is concern about votes.. another 6% drop means becoming 54% liao.. 30 seats will be gone..
punggol ,sengkang new 4-5rm flats selling between 300+ to 400+k.
they cannot possible get a more open goal from a penalty kick than that right?
u know, i know, everybody know la..:doh: :doh:
The surge in ECs and BTOs subsidies and construction is likely to strain the financial institutions that are lending money to the HDB as well as fundings to other government projects. The property market must not crash else Singapore will be in trouble.
The surge in ECs and BTOs subsidies and construction is likely to strain the financial institutions that are lending money to the HDB as well as fundings to other government projects. The property market must not crash else Singapore will be in trouble.
the shock has to be an exogenous one rather than an endogenous one.
the shock has to be an exogenous one rather than an endogenous one.
Imagine the national investment units lost so much money overseas that national assets have to be sold. It will be interesting if the rental section of HDB is sold to a REIT and expanded. Just a wild thought. It will be good for the pte property owners though.
Imagine the national investment units lost so much money overseas that national assets have to be sold. It will be interesting if the rental section of HDB is sold to a REIT and expanded. Just a wild thought. It will be good for the pte property owners though.
you can expect rentals to rise if that happens. REIT is almost always about asset enhancement to pursue higher yields.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1178729/1/.html
SINGAPORE: The number of Housing & Development Board (HDB) flats being sublet has more than tripled in the past five years.
The reasons include the relaxation of subletting rules, and an increase in foreigners.
With more HDB home-owners using their flats to earn rental income, some analysts are concerned this will lead to a shortage of supply in the resale market.
The number of HDB flats on the rental market has shot up from about 12,500 in 2006 to 40,026 in 2011.
Previously, flat owners could only lease out their flats if they could show proof they had been living overseas for a certain period of time.
Since 2003, the HDB has gradually brought down the minimum occupation period (MOP) after which owners can sublet their flats.
Currently, the MOP is five years for both new and resale flats, regardless of whether they are bought with a government grant.
And with more foreigners coming to study and work here, there is no shortage of demand. These include students as well as foreign work permit-holders and employment pass-holders.
One relocation company, Orientations, said the number of expatriates opting to rent an HDB flat has gone up by 30 per cent, between 2010 and 2011.
Many of them are mid-level professionals from Asia who are receiving smaller housing allowances compared to previous years.
Orientations chairman Beverly Mayhew noted that the amenities in some public housing estates - such as swimming pools, transport hubs and recreational centres - make them very appealing to foreigners.
Owners must seek approval from the HDB before the flat can be sublet, and approval is only granted for a maximum of three years, after which the application must be renewed.
Figures from the third quarter of 2011 show that a four-room HDB flat can fetch rents of between S$2,000 and S$2,500 a month, based on median rents in various housing estates.
The going rate for a five-room flat is between S$2,100 and S$3,000.
HDB said allowing owners to sublet their flats gives them a source of supplementary income, while meeting the demand for rental flats.
But one property watcher said the reluctance to sell has contributed to a shortage of supply in the open market.
Current measures also force dual-home owners to think twice about selling their HDB flat to finance another private property.
This is because if they were to re-enter the HDB market, they would have to sell off their private property within six months of purchase.
That is one reason resale prices in recent years have been hitting the roof.
Property watcher Chris Koh said: "In the past when they upgraded to a private property, the decision was very clear. You either sell away your HDB flat, or alternatively stay in your HDB flat and you rent out your private (property). So the distinction was there.
"Today, once they've collected the key to their private property, they can choose to rent out their flat. So they're put in a position where they have a choice now.
"Once they hear that they can collect a S$3,000-rental every month from their flat, they say I'd rather rent out the flat."
Mr Koh said authorities should consider enforcing a higher minimum occupation period, if owners wish to sublet.
For instance, he said it could be 10 years for those who wish to sublet, but five, if owners plan to sell. That way, genuine sellers are not penalised.
"The key thing is to understand what an HDB is for. Whatever we want to call it, it is still government housing. So you cannot be capitalising on a subsidised housing and then subsequently renting out and earning good income from it," Mr Koh said.
But not everyone shares this view.
PropNex CEO Mohd Ismail said: "I think we should not interfere and tweak with the rental amount, and I think it's perfectly all right if the market is prepared to pay such an amount, and people who have owned such properties and have legally occupied them, that's a form of return on their investments."
HDB said the number of subletting cases remains a small proportion of the nearly one million flats here, and it will continue to monitor the situation.
- CNA/wk
I seriously doubt much can be done in the HDB sector... too much at stake... :)
phantom_opera
25-01-12, 08:31
HDB price only up 4X (150k to 300k to 600k) from 1992, nothing compared to some plantation land in Malaysia which goes up 10-12X in 18y
Not surprise that the true value could be 2 times of this nos as many of them may not have sought approval from authority.
I beleve true value may be >3x or more if you look at number of HDB owners concurrently owning HDB flats with private properties.:eek:
Not surprise that the true value could be 2 times of this nos as many of them may not have sought approval from authority.
HDB price only up 4X (150k to 300k to 600k) from 1992, nothing compared to some plantation land in Malaysia which goes up 10-12X in 18y
Have U counted ringgit depreciation against sg dollar yet?
You can look at the windscreen of cars with both HDB and condo carpark labels.
I beleve true value may be >3x or more if you look at number of HDB owners concurrently owning HDB flats with private properties.:eek:
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