View Full Version : Selection of which ID to engage
Bros and Sistas,
How do you choose which ID company to engage?
How do you protect yourself from being overcharged / delayed?
How do you bargain?
As i understand, the ID companies will request for a downpayment for them to start on 3D design which ranges from S$800~S$2,000. But what if they fail to design to your liking, do you get back the full refund? Or another scenario, they fail to complete the reno work on time, do you make them pay for the delays?? It could also be the rectification job in your unit wasn't complete or done, do you make them pay for the delays??
Pls share your information and opinions. Thanks.
stalingrad
06-02-12, 12:39
Bros and Sistas,
How do you choose which ID company to engage?
How do you protect yourself from being overcharged / delayed?
How do you bargain?
As i understand, the ID companies will request for a downpayment for them to start on 3D design which ranges from S$800~S$2,000. But what if they fail to design to your liking, do you get back the full refund? Or another scenario, they fail to complete the reno work on time, do you make them pay for the delays?? It could also be the rectification job in your unit wasn't complete or done, do you make them pay for the delays??
Pls share your information and opinions. Thanks.
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
No problem sir. I am a rag and bone man with little education. If i had another chance of being young, i would study hard but with little money from my parents, i had to give up school to work at a tender age. Now i am working at my own pace because i have fully paid properties in OCR, RCR and CCR in Singapore, and industrial properties.
Well, this is not British Council so please pardon my level of English. :cheers1:
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
can you provide a corrected version so that TS can improve his English?
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.Why are you so concerned with the use of written English in a forum which does not pay as much attention to English as it does properties? Some individuals here are not local anyway so what made you think that mygeemeel is a Singaporean? Cheers! :cheers1:
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
I'm sure where you came from, not everyone speaks and write well.
Bros and Sistas,
How do you choose which ID company to engage?
How do you protect yourself from being overcharged / delayed?
How do you bargain?
As i understand, the ID companies will request for a downpayment for them to start on 3D design which ranges from S$800~S$2,000. But what if they fail to design to your liking, do you get back the full refund? Or another scenario, they fail to complete the reno work on time, do you make them pay for the delays?? It could also be the rectification job in your unit wasn't complete or done, do you make them pay for the delays??
Pls share your information and opinions. Thanks.I suspect that the downpayment is a normal procedure. It is usually about 10% to 20% of the expected renovation cost. The ID companies need some form of assurance for the efforts they have invested in churning out the 3D prints for your renovation. As a general rule of thumb, I will only sign with the companies after I've viewed their workmanship and craftworks. I'll go down to visit their completed projects.
Should they fail to complete the reno work within the stipulated time, the ID companies are liable for compensation charges. These compensation details should be clearly stated in the contract. If not, demand that the companies include it in the contract. As much as the companies need some form of assurance from us the clients, we also need some form of assurance from them. :)
Many thanks for the support. KNN, I'm sure he meant well by pointing out that I have poor English Proficiency. Opps, sorry if i used KNN in my mixed British English. (If i had better education, i wouldn't be a rag and bone man. I would have f**king own a recycling conglomerate).
Back to my earlier query for advice or is it supposed to be advise?
I am considering whether to engage ID company to do up another unit of mine. My previous units don't come with any ID since they were either for my family or rented out. Please give me your opinions and what to be wary of. The last thing i want is a half done place at unreasonable price compared to other IDs. Many thanks in advance.:cheers4:
You are a champ!
I wonder if you could rank your top 1-3 or even 1-5.
I am mulling (good or not my England?) about doing some ID for my own unit.
Many thanks for the support. KNN, I'm sure he meant well by pointing out that I have poor English Proficiency. Opps, sorry if i used KNN in my mixed British English. (If i had better education, i wouldn't be a rag and bone man. I would have f**king own a recycling conglomerate).
Back to my earlier query for advice or is it supposed to be advise?
I am considering whether to engage ID company to do up another unit of mine. My previous units don't come with any ID since they were either for my family or rented out. Please give me your opinions and what to be wary of. The last thing i want is a half done place at unreasonable price compared to other IDs. Many thanks in advance.:cheers4:
Many thanks for the support. KNN, I'm sure he meant well by pointing out that I have poor English Proficiency. Opps, sorry if i used KNN in my mixed British English. (If i had better education, i wouldn't be a rag and bone man. I would have f**king own a recycling conglomerate).
Back to my earlier query for advice or is it supposed to be advise?
I am considering whether to engage ID company to do up another unit of mine. My previous units don't come with any ID since they were either for my family or rented out. Please give me your opinions and what to be wary of. The last thing i want is a half done place at unreasonable price compared to other IDs. Many thanks in advance.:cheers4:Advise is a verb so you should use advice.
Well just my 2 cents worth of opinion. If your unit is for rental, it should be done up reasonably but engaging an ID to do it might not be prudent coz its slightly more expensive. Then again I'm quite a hands on person and I personally enjoy doing ID myself so its my ID brain speaking here. However if you are void of ideas, then you might need to spend a little more on ID. Also, if the unit is to be sold, my limited experience suggests that a nicely done up unit commands a higher asking price so you must consider if the higher asking price covers the cost of renovation. :cheers5:
I suspect that the downpayment is a normal procedure. It is usually about 10% to 20% of the expected renovation cost. The ID companies need some form of assurance for the efforts they have invested in churning out the 3D prints for your renovation. As a general rule of thumb, I will only sign with the companies after I've viewed their workmanship and craftworks. I'll go down to visit their completed projects.
Should they fail to complete the reno work within the stipulated time, the ID companies are liable for compensation charges. These compensation details should be clearly stated in the contract. If not, demand that the companies include it in the contract. As much as the companies need some form of assurance from us the clients, we also need some form of assurance from them. :)
Good information. Many thanks.
I had asked for compensation for late delivery. They initially commited 5% which i thought was too low. For example, it would only cost them S$2,500 compensation for a S$50,000 job. No big deal for them to absorb if i am assuming their margin is 30%?
They may consider the costs of coming over and over again to rectify the problems against forgoing S$2,500.
Another point for consideration... they could always add the S$2,500 into the original quotation to safe guard themselves.
I am unsure of how other IDs operate. If the payment term given to us is on a progressive payment term, then there is little or nothing much left to hold them back for unfulfilled scope of works? Any other bros with experience to share? :o
blackpepperj
06-02-12, 13:34
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
Real moronic dog :cheers6:
Some ID companies are experts in pushing the blame for their late completion of work onto the owners, citing examples to vindicate their stand. As such, it is vitally important that owners make those special efforts to visit the unit during the course of the renovation. This would then ensure that these ID companies do not turn around and create some ungrounded stories to justify their lateness. They may say something that you cannot verify unless you were there during the renovation process. Also, your presence at the site is crucial to quickly rectify any mistakes the workers make or any misinterpretations of what you've originally wanted. Hmmm... :cheers1:
Advise is a verb so you should use advice.
Well just my 2 cents worth of opinion. If your unit is for rental, it should be done up reasonably but engaging an ID to do it might not be prudent coz its slightly more expensive. Then again I'm quite a hands on person and I personally enjoy doing ID myself so its my ID brain speaking here. However if you are void of ideas, then you might need to spend a little more on ID. Also, if the unit is to be sold, my limited experience suggests that a nicely done up unit commands a higher asking price so you must consider if the higher asking price covers the cost of renovation. :cheers5:
Thanks or your advice. Good point. I had thought of finding my own contractor too but unfortunately, i do not have any good contacts to begin with.
I was thinking if it would be worth it (assuming their mark up is S$15,000) having an ID company be responsible for my unit. Or save on the S$15,000 and enjoy the process. Sekali i become pro at doing it and may end up being a main-con myself.
To answer your question, i would like to do up this unit to stay in after checking out all the nice showflats. My current place is more of a dump (imagine... no ID, alot of thrash and rubbish, poor lighting).:p
If u have time n contacts in the reno inducstry, try n be your own ID. I have been doing it on my own for the previous and current roofs over my head and will continue to do so.
No offence to any ID here. IMO, ID work always 'ho kua, bo ho jiak' (direct translation: good to look at, no good to eat) - nice enough to admire and go 'wah!!!' but seldom practical enough to use for long period or requires high maintenance. :o :o :o
i belong to the new gen call Gen Y. so my england is exactly like sms format when posting in forum.:cheers5:
can you provide a corrected version so that TS can improve his English?
hmm actually his own sentence construct also sounds abit off... fastidious and sensitivity have the same meaning... it's like saying "Mary is having a sad depression". Or maybe can use fastidiousness as a noun instead of adjective then noun.
unless sensitivity is to be interpreted as predeposition?
Anyway, my english is not pow-derful too... this is just my :2cents:
Bros and Sistas,
How do you choose which ID company to engage?
How do you protect yourself from being overcharged / delayed?
How do you bargain?
As i understand, the ID companies will request for a downpayment for them to start on 3D design which ranges from S$800~S$2,000. But what if they fail to design to your liking, do you get back the full refund? Or another scenario, they fail to complete the reno work on time, do you make them pay for the delays?? It could also be the rectification job in your unit wasn't complete or done, do you make them pay for the delays??
Pls share your information and opinions. Thanks.
I'm not an expert but this is what I'll do.
Pay for the 3D design? Ignore them if they as you to pay. Move on to another ID. If they want your business, they should give you an initial 3D design to start the discussion.
Always get at least 3 to 5 ID quotations to compare price. Ask them to come down to your place before giving quotation. Challenge them with some of your ideas and see if they know their stuffs well. Observe their punctuality, their behaviour, whether professional or not. If ah beng behavior and yaya type, ignore them. If keep changing your appointment or cannot make it but didn't inform you, ignore them.
It's also very important that you as an owner must know what you want to do with your place. Add one wall partition here, a TV wall feature, move the cable TV point, etc. This will give them an impression that you have some experience and don't dare to overcharge. Also the Theme of the renovation? Zen, modern, euro, etc so that the ID can cater for your needs. A creative ID will be able to give you suggestion which you don't usually think of. A good ID will want to design your place as if it's their house and feel proud of it at the end. You will be able to tell if they just want to earn your money, do a normal job and get the job done or seriously treating it as an art.
Note that a very often used tatics by ID is quoting you something based on a certain brand and say you can select any color, pattern or design. But usually very limited in selection. When you want something beyond that, it's another cost. Just beware. It's good that you go down to their showroom and ask them to show you what they are providing. This allows you to see the quality of the materials they are providing. Otherwise, they will chop you into pieces after you award to them without knowing what they provide.
Make sure they provide a detailed breakdown of the quotation and explain clearly each means. If something is missed out, make sure it's added it. Verbal agreement is useless after you sign on the dotted line. You'll end up paying more if you trust verbal promise.
Thanks or your advice. Good point. I had thought of finding my own contractor too but unfortunately, i do not have any good contacts to begin with.
I was thinking if it would be worth it (assuming their mark up is S$15,000) having an ID company be responsible for my unit. Or save on the S$15,000 and enjoy the process. Sekali i become pro at doing it and may end up being a main-con myself.
To answer your question, i would like to do up this unit to stay in after checking out all the nice showflats. My current place is more of a dump (imagine... no ID, alot of thrash and rubbish, poor lighting).:p
I dun think their mark up is so much... my previous ID only charged me $30k to do whole house flooring, dining area feature wall, kitchen cabinet,painting, shoe cabinet, wall hacking, doors etc and throw in system 4 aircon. haha Mine was a brand new 5rm HDB.
And she did everything within 2 months all swee swee and I didnt supervise too.
But other stuff like purchase of lightings, electrician etc I liaise with them directly myself to save $$
Break into schedules/milestones lor ;). E.g. full renovation:
1) Downpayment - 10%
2) Hacking & wet work / tiling etc - 20%
3) Plumbing, WC, bath etc installation - 20%
4) Cabinet work - 20%
5) Electrical works - 10%
6) Wallpapers / painting etc all done - 10%
7) After 1 month all done & no defects - 10%
Above is just a rough guide. You can have any combination etc but make sure don't pay more for each stage than necessary otherwise they collect 20% instalment and can run away do nothing more! :D
Make sure they provide 1 year warranty. :ashamed1:
However, all warranty is useless unless you get a trust-worthy ID. :p
Good information. Many thanks.
I had asked for compensation for late delivery. They initially commited 5% which i thought was too low. For example, it would only cost them S$2,500 compensation for a S$50,000 job. No big deal for them to absorb if i am assuming their margin is 30%?
They may consider the costs of coming over and over again to rectify the problems against forgoing S$2,500.
Another point for consideration... they could always add the S$2,500 into the original quotation to safe guard themselves.
I am unsure of how other IDs operate. If the payment term given to us is on a progressive payment term, then there is little or nothing much left to hold them back for unfulfilled scope of works? Any other bros with experience to share? :o
Break into schedules/milestones lor ;). E.g. full renovation:
1) Downpayment - 10%
2) Hacking & wet work / tiling etc - 20%
3) Plumbing, WC, bath etc installation - 20%
4) Cabinet work - 20%
5) Electrical works - 10%
6) Wallpapers / painting etc all done - 10%
7) After 1 month all done & no defects - 10%
Above is just a rough guide. You can have any combination etc but make sure don't pay more for each stage than necessary otherwise they collect 20% instalment and can run away do nothing more! :D
Make sure they provide 1 year warranty. :ashamed1:
However, all warranty is useless unless you get a trust-worthy ID. :p
yes, trust worthy ID is very important... some ID companies provide 5 years warranty
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
Why still stay in Singapore?
You should just go elsewhere since you already know the standard of Singlish here. You so poor thing lah. Have to listen and endure our Singlish for the last 16 years. Life must be very miserable for you. By the way, we love Singlish and will continue to use it in this forum.
Oh, maybe I've mistaken. Since you've stay here for 16 yrs, you must have adjusted and love our Singlish liao. Bely good leh.
Above is just a rough guide. You can have any combination etc but make sure don't pay more for each stage than necessary otherwise they collect 20% instalment and can run away do nothing more! :D
Make sure they provide 1 year warranty. :ashamed1:
However, all warranty is useless unless you get a trust-worthy ID. :pTherein lies that intricate balance to find one that is trustworthy and cheap. If very trustworthy, its usually more expensive... if its too cheap, we cannot expect that same degree of trustworthiness... (or can we?) :rolleyes: No offense to IDs here...
If the ID is cheaper than a mere plain vanilla renovation company or cheapest of all IDs, usually ...mmm... you know lah! :ashamed1:
However, similar analogy cannot be used for new launch vs resale property (because T&Cs are different)! :p
Therein lies that intricate balance to find one that is trustworthy and cheap. If very trustworthy, its usually more expensive... if its too cheap, we cannot expect that same degree of trustworthiness... (or can we?) :rolleyes: No offense to IDs here...
stalingrad
06-02-12, 14:40
can you provide a corrected version so that TS can improve his English?
"anyone knows a good ID?" would be good enough. I am not a school teacher. but I am against this "cold bloody murder of the english tongue", which is everywhere, including the major newspapers.
Very good information here. Many thanks to all advices.
Keep posting your experiences and how to avoid pitfalls. It is the first time I am getting an ID to do up my unit. Hope it would be smooth sailing and not kena chop carrot head. CCB, i have problem writing good English. Si beh paiseh.
stalingrad
06-02-12, 14:41
Why still stay in Singapore?
You should just go elsewhere since you already know the standard of Singlish here. You so poor thing lah. Have to listen and endure our Singlish for the last 16 years. Life must be very miserable for you. By the way, we love Singlish and will continue to use it in this forum.
Oh, maybe I've mistaken. Since you've stay here for 16 yrs, you must have adjusted and love our Singlish liao. Bely good leh.
cannot adjust lah!!!
"anyone knows a good ID?" would be good enough. I am not a school teacher. but I am against this "cold bloody murder of the english tongue", which is everywhere, including the major newspapers.
y so serious? life is tough enuf. m sure ppl know when to switch to good english when required. chill! :cheers5:
stalingrad
06-02-12, 14:45
y so serious? life is tough enuf. m sure ppl know when to switch to good english when required. chill! :cheers5:
I don't think so. it is not singlish. It is "thinking in chinese, but writing in english"-ism. people who speak singlish don't have that problem.
"anyone knows a good ID?" would be good enough. I am not a school teacher. but I am against this "cold bloody murder of the english tongue", which is everywhere, including the major newspapers.
You could send me a PM to teach me where my mistakes were instead of displaying your frustration in public. Having good education is one thing, knowing how to behave and respecting others is more important.:cheers4:
Can moderator help me change the topic to 'How to be careful when getting an ID?' Since this is what i want to know. I don't want to know which ID is good. :D
(Someone sent me a PM. He wanted me to post this to suan those who gei kiang). :cheers4:
stalingrad
06-02-12, 14:49
You could send me a PM to teach me where my mistakes were instead of displaying your frustration in public. Having good education is one thing, knowing how to behave and respecting others is more important.:cheers4:
Can moderator help me change the topic to 'How to be careful when getting an ID?' Since this is what i want to know. I don't want to know which ID is good. :D
(Someone sent me a PM. He wanted me to post this to suan those who gei kiang). :cheers4:
How to be careful? now that is truly hilarious. but I will try not to laugh too loud lest I disturb my neighbors.
I don't think so. it is not singlish. It is "thinking in chinese, but writing in english"-ism. people who speak singlish don't have that problem.
In Hollywood (America), they don't promote speaking and writing good English. Yoda speaks backside to front. Anyway i always don't understand Star Wars.
How to be careful? now that is truly hilarious. but I will try not to laugh too loud lest I disturb my neighbors.
Let's put a stop to fault finding. Could you share and contribute good advice to my query? Thanks. :)
stalingrad
06-02-12, 14:58
Let's put a stop to fault finding. Could you share and contribute good advice to my query? Thanks. :)
My advise is that most IDs in Singapore are no good. they'd make your homes look like cheap geylang hotel rooms, with plywood and aluminum everywhere. they also lift this and thicken that, reducing useable space. My friend had an ID do up their new condo, and the result was shocking, shockingly bad. We labelled it plywood paradise. and it smells really bad too, with carcinogenic materials emitting foul odors throughout the home.
You are better off not using ID at all, and decorate your home yourself. Use high end and classy furniture. We have nothing but rosewood and teak furniture in our home, and our home looks like a 5 star hotel.
My advise is that most IDs in Singapore are no good. they'd make your homes look like cheap geylang hotel rooms, with plywood and aluminum everywhere. they also lift this and thicken that, reducing useable space. My friend had an ID do up their new condo, and the result was shocking, shockingly bad. We labelled it plywood paradise. and it smells really bad too, with carcinogenic materials emitting foul odors throughout the home.
You are better off not using ID at all, and decorate your home yourself. Use high end and classy furniture. We have nothing but rosewood and teak furniture in our home, and our home looks like a 5 star hotel.
Don't mind share some photos of your home so that we can learn from you?
My advise is that
Glass houses.
You must be the want cheep cheep type then complain no good IDs? :doh:
Just like buying properties cheep cheep can already....... :beats-me-man:
My advise is that most IDs in Singapore are no good. they'd make your homes look like cheap geylang hotel rooms, with plywood and aluminum everywhere. they also lift this and thicken that, reducing useable space. My friend had an ID do up their new condo, and the result was shocking, shockingly bad. We labelled it plywood paradise. and it smells really bad too, with carcinogenic materials emitting foul odors throughout the home.
You are better off not using ID at all, and decorate your home yourself. Use high end and classy furniture. We have nothing but rosewood and teak furniture in our home, and our home looks like a 5 star hotel.
U can go renotalk.com where many IDs are active there for ideas.
If u do not have any idea how you want to renovate your unit, go talk to a couple who will ask suggest ideas. And u can take it from there.
There are lots of hidden cost and even if u compare item by item the same requirements from different IDs and contractors, the gulf in pricing is bewildering as the material used, dimension, design etc may differ.
If u know exactly what u want & how it will look, get a contractor to do it. They are usually cheaper.
Anyway, this is not a English class, as long as the forummers understand, should be fine, afterall there is no penalty for using "BROKEN ENGLISH".
I had come across another forum, a China girl criticised another girl for her written english which in fact, her english was equally bad (even worst). When another forummer criticised her back, she was so "thick skin" that she said at least she tried and was still learning.:doh:
can we just give the ID the BCA plans of the unit?
I read/somewhere that ID charge differently for different priced units, with fees for HDB being the cheapest and for high end condos being the most expensive. If they know the name of condo, they know how much more to charge you already.
Yes and No.
Yes because if they know your condo is high-end, they charge more.
No because when they know your house is HDB, they will naturally quote you a price where all the cheapest materials are used hence charge you least.
They are also doing business and know how to target the right thing to right customer right? What is the point of quoting cheap and give cheapest material to luxury condo owners when they expect the best?
What is the point of providing luxury ID and best materials to HDB flat? (and end up the renovation more expensive than the HDB flat itself? Doesn't make sense right?) :p
can we just give the ID the BCA plans of the unit?
I read/somewhere that ID charge differently for different priced units, with fees for HDB being the cheapest and for high end condos being the most expensive. If they know the name of condo, they know how much more to charge you already.
bigapplefan
06-02-12, 22:35
Yes and No.
Yes because if they know your condo is high-end, they charge more.
No because when they know your house is HDB, they will naturally quote you a price where all the cheapest materials are used hence charge you least.
They are also doing business and know how to target the right thing to right customer right? What is the point of quoting cheap and give cheapest material to luxury condo owners when they expect the best?
What is the point of providing luxury ID and best materials to HDB flat? (and end up the renovation more expensive than the HDB flat itself? Doesn't make sense right?) :p
hah? really? But they can also give you the quote based on the lower end materials but still charge higher just because it's a condo...
Problem is we are not experts and don't know what to look out for in the quotations.
They may insist more fees for better quality parts and material. So how to bargain unless we know the detail specifications and publish it as a tender. We will eventually lose out because we are not in the business.
You never know the worksmanship.
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 05:20
wahlaueh ! brother stalingard...me has many angmo friends lah....no doubt they sound good when speaking the England language becos of their voice projection from their throats...but their written England is like.....erhhhhh toads lah.....WOAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAH...Dun Anger hor....
Just get the referal from trusted fren.
Problem is we are not experts and don't know what to look out for in the quotations.
They may insist more fees for better quality parts and material. So how to bargain unless we know the detail specifications and publish it as a tender. We will eventually lose out because we are not in the business.
Sometimes it's because of the specifications of HDB that the materials are different. For example, if you want to build a new wall, depending on the type of HDB apt, you may have to use hollow blocks for the wall instead of proper solid bricks as HDB structure may not be able to take the weight of solid brick walls. Plumbing for HDB is cheaper because the pipes are all exposed whereas for private it's concealed. Same for the electric cables.
Take quotes from multiple contractors/IDs and ask many questions to learn from them. For example, for the wet works, must ask how many layers of waterproofing, what is the material used. For the tiling, ask how they bond the tiles - whether using cement or tile adhesive and what kind of tile adhesive. It is helpful to ask them.....if you want to have the top grade tile adhesive and willing to pay extra, what would they offer - not that you are going to pay extra to that guy but so you know what is the best specification so that you can stipulate to the chosen contractor that you want xxxxx type of tile adhesive and waterproofing materials. After that, must still check on the sub-cons, that they are in fact using whatever brand was agreed upon as they would try and cut corners by purchasing smaller amounts of the expensive tile adhesive and "diluting" it with cement, so you must go to the place and see how many bags of tile adhesive have been delivered and if there are very few then you are being cheated and need to complain before they lay the tiles....a lot of headaches......and often people will have big quarrel with the contractor.....so brace yourself for it. You are lucky if you have a good honest contractor but most are not and will try to get max $$$ from you for min work and materials. :tsk-tsk:
wahlaueh ! brother stalingard...me has many angmo friends lah....no doubt they sound good when speaking the England language becos of their voice projection from their throats...but their written England is like.....erhhhhh toads lah.....WOAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAH...Dun Anger hor....Me agree totally... did business with British. Can't even make out his texted messages. Scored a grade 'A' for Atrocious! :47:
hah? really? But they can also give you the quote based on the lower end materials but still charge higher just because it's a condo...Had this experience not just for condo reno but even HDB. Signed the HDB package which is slightly cheaper or so I thought because the ID firm was not forthcoming with their materials. After reno works started, I was told that I could only choose from 'this range' of homogenous tiles and if I wanted better tiles, I must top up! :scared-4: Those tile available to me are just too 'lousy' in every sense of the word... :47: kana caught by them liao!
Me agree totally... did business with British. Can't even make out his texted messages. Scored a grade 'A' for Atrocious! :47:
Agree. Previously I had a pen-pal from England, her written english was also "so-so".
stalingrad
07-02-12, 07:27
Me agree totally... did business with British. Can't even make out his texted messages. Scored a grade 'A' for Atrocious! :47:
no wonder you cannot "make out" his messages, your english comprehensive is low.
"make out" means see. You obviously could make out what your pal wrote, unless you are blind.
what you meant to say is "figure out", comprehend or understand.
I guess the solution to this poor english problem in Singapore is to revamp curriculum in local schools. frankly, I don't understand local kids at all when they speak to me. they don't talk clearly (poor articulation) and have this weird accent that only local understand. sooner or later, singapore will lose its advantage in language. even some PRC people speak better english than local singaporeans.
Actually one can never be too sure whether an ID will "chop" you or not. I guess you should have a budget on how much you are going to spend on the project, do your homework/research (renotalk as mentioned earlier is a good start) on the ID. And Good Luck !
no wonder you cannot "make out" his messages, your english comprehensive is low.
"make out" means see. You obviously could make out what your pal wrote, unless you are blind.
what you meant to say is "figure out", comprehend or understand.
I guess the solution to this poor english problem in Singapore is to revamp curriculum in local schools. frankly, I don't understand local kids at all when they speak to me. they don't talk clearly (poor articulation) and have this weird accent that only local understand. sooner or later, singapore will lose its advantage in language. even some PRC people speak better english than local singaporeans.I'm sorry for your standard of English or should I say, 'lack of'.
Definition of 'make out':
make out
1. To discern or see, especially with difficulty: I could barely make out the traffic signs through the rain.
2. To understand: could not make out what she said.
3. To write out; draw up: made out the invoices.
4. To fill in (a form, for example).
5. Informal To represent as being: made me out to be a liar.
6. Informal To try to establish or prove: He made out that he was innocent.
7. To get along in a given way; fare: made out well in business.
8. Slang a. To neck; pet.
b. To have sexual intercourse.
Very good information here. Many thanks to all advices.
Keep posting your experiences and how to avoid pitfalls. It is the first time I am getting an ID to do up my unit. Hope it would be smooth sailing and not kena chop carrot head. CCB, i have problem writing good English. Si beh paiseh.
Me England not that good as well not don have problem understand your message.:D
I understand from the trade that id rate and margin are est as high as 40. %
And I don't think that kind margin vs the coordination/service offered justified that .
My England is berry belly good but I enjoy reading the trashy english here.
It's a local property forum - not an English forum.
So those wankers who want Queens english to written here can go toss-off. Singlish Rocks!
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:16
I'm sorry for your standard of English or should I say, 'lack of'.
Definition of 'make out':
make out
1. To discern or see, especially with difficulty: I could barely make out the traffic signs through the rain.
2. To understand: could not make out what she said.
3. To write out; draw up: made out the invoices.
4. To fill in (a form, for example).
5. Informal To represent as being: made me out to be a liar.
6. Informal To try to establish or prove: He made out that he was innocent.
7. To get along in a given way; fare: made out well in business.
8. Slang a. To neck; pet.
b. To have sexual intercourse.
yes, it can mean "understand" in certain situations, but not all. YOu must understand that English is a contextual language. Words of the same meaning can be used only in different situations.
Most people when they say "make out" mean "see with difficulty." But seldom people use that phrase when they try to say "understand."
give you one example. "contingent" and "dependent" have roughly the same meaning. but they are used in vastly different situations.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:19
Me England not that good as well not don have problem understand your message.:D
I understand from the trade that id rate and margin are est as high as 40. %
And I don't think that kind margin vs the coordination/service offered justified that .
my england is not so good because the govment is happy with me speaking pidgin england.
I have been to many conferences, and Singaporeans always stand out. When they open their mouths, people nod to each other and wink: "they are from Singapore." that unique accent, you can not miss it from a mile away. I don't think that is a distinction that you guys are proud of. If you don't believe me, just ask you kids that go abroad to seek higher education "do they understand you." Nine of ten times, the answer is "when I first arrive there, they didn't understand me at all."
it is a fact.
I'm sorry for your standard of English or should I say, 'lack of'.
Definition of 'make out':
make out
1. To discern or see, especially with difficulty: I could barely make out the traffic signs through the rain.
2. To understand: could not make out what she said.
3. To write out; draw up: made out the invoices.
4. To fill in (a form, for example).
5. Informal To represent as being: made me out to be a liar.
6. Informal To try to establish or prove: He made out that he was innocent.
7. To get along in a given way; fare: made out well in business.
8. Slang a. To neck; pet.
b. To have sexual intercourse.
For whatever reason this person has to stay in Singapore unwilling to make a living although he despises the people, the government, and everything else in this island. This person's extreme attitude toward everything of this country may due to many reasons on which we don't need to speculate. Yet one thing for sure: he may be literate in English, the education he received is totally failed as he did not learn to respect and appreciate people and cultures that are different from him/his.
Anyway, I try to ignore his nonsense and hope he may find no fun in doing so later. After all, he still need to go back to his cubicle, which unfortunately is in a country that he despise very much, to wait for the next paycheck to feed his family until the day he departs, happily or unwillingly.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:26
For whatever reason this person has to stay in Singapore unwilling to make a living although he despises the people, the government, and everything else in this island. This person's extreme attitude toward everything of this country may due to many reasons on which we don't need to speculate. Yet one thing for sure: he may be literate in English, the education he received is totally failed as he did not learn to respect and appreciate people and cultures that are different from him/his.
Anyway, I try to ignore his nonsense and hope he may find no fun in doing so later. After all, he still need to go back to his cubicle, which unfortunately is in a country that he despise very much, to wait for the next paycheck to feed his family until the day he departs, happily or unwillingly.
not need to over react. truths sometimes hurt. but as they say in ancient china, "whoever teaches me is kinder than my father."
people told me that english proficiency back in the 1960s and 70s was much better. Peranakans speak excellent English. I wonder what happened.
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 09:37
my england is not so good because the govment is happy with me speaking pidgin england.
I have been to many conferences, and Singaporeans always stand out. When they open their mouths, people nod to each other and wink: "they are from Singapore." that unique accent, you can not miss it from a mile away. I don't that is a distinction that you guys are proud of.
I agree with you that our accent sounded "unique". This, after years and years of studying the Westerners, I conclude that it is the lack of "voice projection" that made us sounded so "strange" to the foreigners.
You see, if you playback some of the old tapes from the National Archives/National Library on ancient Singaporean speaking England, you will know what I mean. The old tapes really amplify this characteristic of our voice.
The PRCs speak England with an American accent, and the Hong Kongers speak England with a British accent. But majority of us here speak with a great unique local accent with an alarming delivery speed in speech.
If we want to "appear" to speak Good England, we must all learn to cultivate this voice projection technique which is highly related to the use of accent in the spoken England and slow down the delivery speed of our speech lah !!
The ability of this angmo to switch easily between American and Singlish accent proves my points above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXqcoYdV5w
WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Low class people with no moral values making fun of others.
not need to over react. truths sometimes hurt. but as they say in ancient china, "whoever teaches me is kinder than my father."
people told me that english proficiency back in the 1960s and 70s was much better. Peranakans speak excellent English. I wonder what happened.
you shall say "Need not to over react" or "(there is) No need to over react"
"Not need to over react" is grammatically incorrect. However, I won't laugh at you contemptuously as I understand what you mean and you are not writing a paper
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 09:44
Low class people with no moral values making fun of others.
he is not making fun of us la, sister Rosy. he is just trying to relate to the locals. if you were there, you will feel the warmth generated by this event lor...
WOAHAHAHAHAAHAH
nowadays $$$ talks, don't know how to speak good English, not a disaster, just hire ang mo to speak to another ang mo lo, why bother ...:D
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:48
Low class people with no moral values making fun of others.
I did not make fun of you. I am waging a crusade to point out your deficiencies, so that you can improve your language skills, and be more proud of your country when you go abroad.
Please don't use grave terms such as "moral values." Moral values are not involved in the conversation. I am not attacking you wantonly. I am just pointing out facts that may not be so pleasant to hear.
wouldn't it be better if your kids go abroad and people are amazed by his or her excellent written and spoken English. Who do you prefer to speak a language that only your neighbors can understand.
Bro, he will surely give the excuse that it was a typo.
Can't win the slippery native-English speakers for excuses.
you shall say "Need not to over react" or "(there is) No need to over react"
"Not need to over react" is grammatically incorrect. However, I won't laugh at you contemptuously as I understand what you mean and you are not writing a paper
I did not make fun of you. I am waging a crusade to point our your deficiencies, so that you can improve your language skills, and be more proud of your country when you go abroad.
Please don't use grave terms such as "moral values." Moral values are not involved in the conversation. I am not attacking you wantonly. I am just pointing out facts that may not be so pleasant to hear.
I do not know you well personally. Your comments over here suggest so.
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 09:51
I did not make fun of you. I am waging a crusade to point our your deficiencies, so that you can improve your language skills, and be more proud of your country when you go abroad.
Please don't use grave terms such as "moral values." Moral values are not involved in the conversation. I am not attacking you wantonly. I am just pointing out facts that may not be so pleasant to hear.
aiyo brother stalingrad..... sister Rosy is referring to my youtube link la...not you ...dun be sensitive hor...heheheheheheh
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 09:52
I do not know you well personally. Your comments over here suggest so.
aiyo...sister Rosy...brother stalingrad is not referring to you la...he mistook your reply to me for his lor.....heheheheheheheh..anyway, I bet bro stalingrad would pluck out all his hairs after listening to my singlish lor......WOAHAHAHAHAHAHA
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:53
aiyo brother stalingrad..... sister Rosy is referring to my youtube link la...not you ...dun be sensitive hor...heheheheheheh
it appears she was affectionately referring to me. :D
I did not make fun of you. I am waging a crusade to point out your deficiencies, so that you can improve your language skills, and be more proud of your country when you go abroad.
Please don't use grave terms such as "moral values." Moral values are not involved in the conversation. I am not attacking you wantonly. I am just pointing out facts that may not be so pleasant to hear.
wouldn't it be better if your kids go abroad and people are amazed by his or her excellent written and spoken English. Who do you prefer to speak a language that only your neighbors can understand.
What makes you think that speaking and writing good English can earn a person respect?
You can try to convey whatever you posted in this forum in public in the best English that you can command, what can you earn out of it? Respect or spit?
stalingrad
07-02-12, 09:58
aiyo...sister Rosy...brother stalingrad is not referring to you la...he mistook your reply to me for his lor.....heheheheheheheh..anyway, I bet bro stalingrad would pluck out all his hairs after listening to my singlish lor......WOAHAHAHAHAHAHA
my singaporean friends told me the problem started when the government adopted bilingualism when 90% of singaporeans were still speaking dialects. to help their kids survive in school, they began to speak "english" at home. that just made problems worse. to see what I mean, just listen to how locals speak to their kids, even today. Just listen how the pronounce the word "purple" or "curry."
blackjack21trader
07-02-12, 09:58
next time you guys sit next to an angmo couple in Burger King, listen carefully to the content of their conversation. You will discover their England grammar is very bad...with many slangs and dunno what words...lor....but if you deliver that with an American accent....WOAHLALA...you get beautiful sounding English ;)
we can all overcome this. Our local Malays can also sing England songs very well...this also prove my point that we can overcome this.
yes, it can mean "understand" in certain situations, but not all. YOu must understand that English is a contextual language. Words of the same meaning can be used only in different situations.
Most people when they say "make out" mean "see with difficulty." But seldom people use that phrase when they try to say "understand."
give you one example. "contingent" and "dependent" have roughly the same meaning. but they are used in vastly different situations.You are merely finding fault for the sake of doing so. Squeezing fault from contextual use of a language or seeing mistakes which are not present is a job reserved for those who have spare time. Do you have too much spare time on hand? Read some papers... :47: and have a cup of water :cheers1:.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:03
What makes you think that speaking and writing good English can earn a person respect?
You can try to convey whatever you posted in this forum in public in the best English that you can command, what can you earn out of it? Respect or spit?
spit, I bet. but that says more about you than about me. don't be militant when stymied. be humble and multiply. just because singapore has money doesn't make it respectable. Just look at China, which has tons of money. but when the PRCs line up to buy LV bags in paris, people look at them the way they look at flies on a piece of meat. Money doesn't equate culture or manners, which commands respect.
next time you guys sit next to an angmo couple in Burger King, listen carefully to the content of their conversation. You will discover their England grammar is very bad...with many slangs and dunno what words...lor....but if you deliver that with an American accent....WOAHLALA...you get beautiful sounding English ;)
we can all overcome this. Our local Malays can also sing England songs very well...this also prove my point that we can overcome this.
'gey ang mor'
spit, I bet. but that says more about you than about me. don't be militant when stymied. be humble and multiply. just because singapore has money doesn't make it respectable. Just look at China, which has tons of money. but when the PRCs line up to buy LV bags, people look at them the way they look at flies on a piece of meat. Money doesn't equate culture or manners, which commands respect.
why you bring in money issue ?
I won't disagree with you here.
But perhaps heed some advice - if you want to correct non-native speaker's English, please be a tutor or a teacher. Under those circumstances, you will get kudos instead of bricks tossed at you.
Unless you like to troll for insults - in which case, please carry on being the way you are.
spit, I bet. but that says more about you than about me. don't be militant when stymied. be humble and multiply. just because singapore has money doesn't make it respectable. Just look at China, which has tons of money. but when the PRCs line up to buy LV bags, people look at them the way they look at flies on a piece of meat. Money doesn't equate culture or manners, which commands respect.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:10
next time you guys sit next to an angmo couple in Burger King, listen carefully to the content of their conversation. You will discover their England grammar is very bad...with many slangs and dunno what words...lor....but if you deliver that with an American accent....WOAHLALA...you get beautiful sounding English ;)
we can all overcome this. Our local Malays can also sing England songs very well...this also prove my point that we can overcome this.
while the substance of what you have to say is important, the way you say it is equally or more important. another example: I understand a lot of Singaporean scientists could not get their research papers published in international academic journals without editorial help because of their language deficiency. that says a lot about the importance of how you package your product.
why you bring in money issue ?
Because sadly, this person milks on this country to feed his family
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:15
Because sadly, this person milks on this country to feed his family
how am I milking your country to feed my family? I earn my pay fair and square. I don't rob a bank nor steal from people.
how am I milking your country to feed my family? I earn my pay fair and square. I don't rob a bank nor steal from people.
Yes.
But can you explain your intention of bringing in the money issue into our discussion?
Does anyone over here suggest that Singapore has the money? I do not think Singapore is rich.
spit, I bet. but that says more about you than about me. don't be militant when stymied. be humble and multiply. just because singapore has money doesn't make it respectable. Just look at China, which has tons of money. but when the PRCs line up to buy LV bags in paris, people look at them the way they look at flies on a piece of meat. Money doesn't equate culture or manners, which commands respect.
You are wrong, if you dare to say what you've posted in this forum in public in most of the place in this world, spit will be the least thing you can expect. "Respect" is an universal value in the world
Money does not equate culture or manners, nor does perfect English
In addition, culture and manners do not necessary command respect. You definitely behave different in your real life, which may make you look nice and warm. But from the culture and manner you represent in this forum, don't expect to earn any respect from any one except racists.
You better make sure that Stalingrad will never be linked to your true identity some day some how
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:21
You are wrong, if you dare to say what you've posted in this forum in public in most of the place in this world, spit will be the least thing you can expect. "Respect" is an universal value in the world
Money does not equate culture or manners, nor does perfect English
In addition, culture and manners do not necessary command respect. You definitely behave different in your real life, which may make you look nice and warm. But from the culture and manner you represent in this forum, don't expect to earn any respect from any one except racists.
You better make sure that Stalingrad will never be linked to your true identity some day some how
why? name one thing that I said that was improper. name one thing that will land me in jail. one thing at all.
It is your bias or phobia that made you conjure up this image of me as a bad person. all I said was your english is bad and needs to be improved. I can't even say that?
how am I milking your country to feed my family? I earn my pay fair and square. I don't rob a bank nor steal from people.
when you milk a cow, you earn your milk fair and square by feeding it
At the end of the day, you are still milking a cow
Selection of which ID to engage:
It is depressing to see such poorly written english in Singapore. The country has gone to the dogs language wise. :scared-4:
before you accuse me of fastidious sensitivities, let me just say that when I first arrived in Singapore in 1996, the proficiency of english was bad, not it has never been this bad.
Judge it yourself.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:30
Judge it yourself.
what is wrong with that. if you are bothered by "gone to the dogs", it just means things are getting bad. it is just an expression.
Originally Posted by stalingrad
donate the money to the poor, like bill gates and warren buffett. I guess Asians are too much of a loser to even donate one cent to charity.
why are asians such selfish, inward looking losers?
There are just too many of them
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:32
There are just too many of them
so? asking you guys to donate more to charitable causes is bad?
I'm deeply saddened to learn that this seemingly 'unenglish' thread about ID and home renovation has been butchered and turned into a platform for critical assessment of good written English. Sigh!
Oh yes, back to the discussion proper! ID firms have clauses that safeguard their business interest (which profiteering firm or company doesn't?). However, just be firm on your grounds and talk amicably with the designer before you sign on the dotted line.
Things to look out for:
1. Ensure that provisions are made in the contract, by the ID firm in terms of compensation for late completion of renovation works.
2. Ensure that there is warranty stated in the contract for the reno work done.
3. Must be diligent in going down to ensure that reno works are done the way you have stipulated for fear that the designer might have misinterpreted your requirements or the on site contractor might cut corners here and there.
4. Always have a good relationship with the workers on site. Can buy them drinks, etc so they will be happy working in your house and may finish work faster than expected.
5. Do not pay the final portion of the reno cost until you are completely satisfied with the work.
Cheers! :cheers5:
what is wrong with that. if you are bothered by "gone to the dogs", it just means things are getting bad. it is just an expression.
What is your true intention? You do not need to use such idiom just to point out TS's mistake and so conveniently link it to national level.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:37
What is your true intention? You do not need to use such idiom just to point out TS's mistake and so conveniently link it to national level.
no intention. Just to point out that so many people I meet on a daily basis should go back to school to improve their language skills. it is painful to the eyes and ears.
so? asking you guys to donate more to charitable causes is bad?
No, not bad at all.
Just repeat the same sentence in public in your perfect English, be it in Singapore, Beijing, Tokyo, Washington DC, NYC, Paris, you name it, and see what you will earn. Respect? I doubt. Spit? probably. Jail time? not totally impossible when you make such a statement about Asian if the country is serious about racial discrimination
no intention. Just to point out that so many people I meet on a daily basis should go back to school to improve their language skills. it is painful to the eyes and ears.
You have to learn to accept and tolerate other's deficiences with a bigger heart.
donate the money to the poor, like bill gates and warren buffett. I guess Asians are too much of a loser to even donate one cent to charity.
why are asians such selfish, inward looking losers?
so? asking you guys to donate more to charitable causes is bad?
No, not bad at all.
Just repeat the same sentence in public in your perfect English, be it in Singapore, Beijing, Tokyo, Washington DC, NYC, Paris, you name it, and see what you will earn. Respect? I doubt. Spit? probably. Jail time? not totally impossible when you make such a statement about Asian if the country is serious about racial discrimination
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:44
No, not bad at all.
Just repeat the same sentence in public in your perfect English, be it in Singapore, Beijing, Tokyo, Washington DC, NYC, Paris, you name it, and see what you will earn. Respect? I doubt. Spit? probably. Jail time? not totally impossible when you make such a statement about Asian if the country is serious about racial discrimination
don't scare me with this big moniker "racial discrimination." what is wrong with comparing attitude toward donating for charitable causes across races? Bloomberg had an article that says that warren buffet and bill gates appeals to Asian rich people for donations to world hunger and their appeals fell on deaf ears. so bloomberg is racist too?
Relax. Don't take offense when none is intended.
Most likely your own country is supporting all the lazy people with social welfare, everyday just talk about rights, culture, manners, enjoy life spend future money, always ensuring politically right about saying anything but never sincere and country in deep deficit thats why you have to come to Singapore to seek employment. Your parents probably sent you off on your own when you start your college and in your own egoistic world you benchmark English as the only universal language...
That is why sadly your family "culture" didnt have time to teach you how to behave when you are in foreign land. Why not you go back to where you belong? If its just for money you are no more than just a leech...
no intention. Just to point out that so many people I meet on a daily basis should go back to school to improve their language skills. it is painful to the eyes and ears.While you are kind enough to point out the need for many to improve their language skills, many forummers here are kind enough to point out the need for you to exercise tolerance and grace in your postings. Many forummers here have already confessed in no uncertain terms that they are lacking in their linguistic abilities (English for that matter) but you are still insistent that there is nothing wrong with your disrespectful approach in correcting others. :doh:
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:46
Most likely your own country is supporting all the lazy people with social welfare, everyday just talk about rights, culture, manners, enjoy life spend future money, always ensuring politically right about saying anything but never sincere and country in deep deficit thats why you have to come to Singapore to seek employment. Your parents probably sent you off on your own when you start your college and in your own egoistic world you benchmark English as the only universal language...
That is why sadly your family "culture" didnt have time to teach you how to behave when you are in foreign land. Why not you go back to where you belong? If its just for money you are no more than just a leech...
frankly, I don't understand what you wrote. get editorial help!!!
why are asians such selfish, inward looking losers?
Does Bloomberg use similar statement like yours?
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:47
While you are kind enough to point out the need for many to improve their language skills, many forummers here are kind enough to point out the need for you to exercise tolerance and grace in your postings. Many forummers here have already confessed in no uncertain terms that they are lacking in their linguistic abilities (English for that matter) but you are still insistent that there is nothing wrong with your disrespectful approach in correcting others. :doh:
fine, cease fire.
Stalin.... the problem started because you used a property forum to correct someone's English...
This is not the right forum to do that...
Imagine you were attending a convention or forum...
When it comes to the questions and answers section, you stand up and start to tell the speaker, your English is poor... you should be using this and that and speaking with a correct accent etc....
How do you think the participants and attendees in the conference will view you???
From all your previous posts, you come across as someone that is quite bitter either about where you stand in the society right now, your position, and since we are on the property forum, the property that you have bought...
I personally feel etiquette and decorum and more impt than perfect English.... If someone speak broken English or even an adulterated version of Enlglish, but is polite and respectful, do you think people will not respect him and accord the same respect and courtesy back to the person?
If Singapore as a society irk you so much.... please do not hang around here least we infect you with our poor English...
The problem we have now in SIN is that we treat foreigners so NICE and is so welcoming to them that its the foreigners that are stepping all over us..
Do you hear foreigner in China complaining about the standard of English there? NO!!!! Cause China will tell them to LEAVE if they are so affected by it...
For the sake of harmony, please show some respect to the people and the land you are making a living on..... Just as we have welcome you with open arms...
By all means, correct us, tell us where we have gone wrong, but please do it in the right context, at the right forum, in a right manner....
Ang Mor used to treat Asians as 2nd class citizens. Perhaps such mentality still exists.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:49
Does Bloomberg use similar statement like yours?
probably not. but you must understand that I wrote in reply to some people yelling and screaming at me. as they say, don't cut and paste and take things out of context.
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:56
Ang Mor used to treat Asians as 2nd class citizens. Perhaps such mentality still exists.
not me. I was merely pointing out facts.
why are asians such selfish, inward looking losers?
probably not. but you must understand that I wrote in reply to some people yelling and screaming at me. as they say, don't cut and paste and take things out of context.
Such statement is inappropriate in any context, period
stalingrad
07-02-12, 10:59
Such statement is inappropriate in any context, period
You think it is proper to accuse me of racism just because I pointed out some people need editorial help when posting comments online? before you hurl that accusation at me, examine yourself.
My advise is that most IDs in Singapore are no good. they'd make your homes look like cheap geylang hotel rooms, with plywood and aluminum everywhere. they also lift this and thicken that, reducing useable space. My friend had an ID do up their new condo, and the result was shocking, shockingly bad. We labelled it plywood paradise. and it smells really bad too, with carcinogenic materials emitting foul odors throughout the home.
You are better off not using ID at all, and decorate your home yourself. Use high end and classy furniture. We have nothing but rosewood and teak furniture in our home, and our home looks like a 5 star hotel.
I thought the correct grammar is "My advice" rather than "My advise"?
Can you move this discussion to the Coffeeshop section? It's become a discussion on English/Singlish rather than the original title. :(
This is a Singapore-based forum to discuss property-related matters - it's not a debating session in Oxford or Cambridge.
Repeating my earlier post which was evidently lost in all the cross firings...
Oh yes, back to the discussion proper! ID firms have clauses that safeguard their business interest (which profiteering firm or company doesn't?). However, just be firm on your grounds and talk amicably with the designer before you sign on the dotted line.
Things to look out for:
1. Ensure that provisions are made in the contract, by the ID firm in terms of compensation for late completion of renovation works.
2. Ensure that there is warranty stated in the contract for the reno work done.
3. Must be diligent in going down to ensure that reno works are done the way you have stipulated for fear that the designer might have misinterpreted your requirements or the on site contractor might cut corners here and there.
4. Always have a good relationship with the workers on site. Can buy them drinks, etc so they will be happy working in your house and may finish work faster than expected.
5. Do not pay the final portion of the reno cost until you are completely satisfied with the work.
Cheers! :cheers5:
rymccondo77
07-02-12, 12:55
Dear YSYAP,
Thanks for the tips :)
P.S. I agree with YSYAP - let's keep this thread to ID related matters. Cheers.
Can you move this discussion to the Coffeeshop section? It's become a discussion on English/Singlish rather than the original title. :(
This is a Singapore-based forum to discuss property-related matters - it's not a debating session in Oxford or Cambridge.
Apologize if my OT post offended anyone. I concur on not diverting the orginal intent of the thread.
Cheers.
To add on to what others have mentioned,
1. Contractor/designer will always say that your requirement is understood and they don't need to write it in the contract. Do insist on having them included.
For negotiation and management, it is good to have a partner or fake partner so that one of you can be the "bad cop" :hell-hath-no-fury: to complain and be very fussy while the other one is seemingly reasonable and apologetic about the other person's behaviour :o
2. Check the internet for complaints about the contractors. Somewhere, someone is bound to have written something.
1. Ensure that provisions are made in the contract, by the ID firm in terms of compensation for late completion of renovation works.
Most of them will not include penalty clauses, unless you are paying top dollar or the extra penalty is already priced in. I would not insist on this but have smaller payment milestones.
I've used both ID and contractor. Some things to bear in mind:
a) if you use an ID, it's a little more convenient because the ID firm handles everything for you, from design to supervising the work.
When we used a contractor, it was a nightmare because you have to go down to the site and supervise, otherwise stuff just doesn't get done when they're stretched for resources.
b) don't just look at the dollar value of the contract. Our contractor really screwed us over when we went with him because he was cheaper than the other quotes we had. While he was cheaper, there were so many issues, such as late delivery of our condo (by about 2 months), poor electrical wiring, leaking toilet, etc. In the end, we had to get someone else in to fix all this and that wiped out the savings we thought we had from accepting the cheaper quote.
c) Agreed on the other posters who have said that a detailed contract is good. Best is itemise line by line with clear description of the materials, etc. Otherwise, the possibility of the ID/contractor telling you that you have to top up is very real.
buttercarp
07-02-12, 14:35
I agree with you, template, about not to look at the dollar value of the contract.
I have been using my mother's church friend, an ID.
She is a little expensive if you allow to do whatever she wants.
However, I find that I can cut down costs if I dictate what I want and select the material.
I find her reliable and her contractor good.
If she said she will deliver it by a certain date, she means it.
The materials she uses are of good quality and can last a long time.
My parents have used her previously for their home too.
kskong2000
07-02-12, 21:42
Dear All,
My apartment will be ready soon and meanwhile my 1st baby is also coming soon. So I really hope to get some contact of good ID from you guys. thanks for your help and have a nice day ahead :)
Just wondering what are the minimum things to be done for a new condo? Just install the lights and can move in liaoz?
:beats-me-man:
The bros and sistas here damn power. All showing support after i kena suan for having no proper education.
Thanks for the info on ID. I will see if there try to smoke me.
Just wondering what are the minimum things to be done for a new condo? Just install the lights and can move in liaoz?
:beats-me-man:
Do you need to install a false ceiling for the lights?
Do you need to install a false ceiling for the lights?
Yes, need false ceiling for the lights and fan. If not decided to have fan now or later, must inform ID to stengthen the false ceiling where the fan would be so that in future no need to change false ceiling.
Just wondering what are the minimum things to be done for a new condo? Just install the lights and can move in liaoz?
:beats-me-man:
Lights, fans, additional power sockets, curtains, grills, laundry hanger. And other items depend on what is included in yr condo eg towel rails.
If yours is a rental unit, advise you to consider not installing false ceiling as it will involve less hassle in case of leakage from upstairs. Just use the existing points for lighting provided by the developer. If you say new condo don't have leakage, that's not true. It depends on your luck. Shoddy workmanship can also result in leakage in a new condo. Has happened to me before so am speaking from experience.
Yes, need false ceiling for the lights and fan. If not decided to have fan now or later, must inform ID to stengthen the false ceiling where the fan would be so that in future no need to change false ceiling.
If you are going to hang venetian blinds, you will also need to tell the ID beforehand as they would strengthen the false ceiling for hanging the blinds. The blinds are quite heavy and you have to tug on the strings to move them up and down so the false ceiling will need to be strong enough to support the weight of the blinds and the tugging.
buttercarp
08-02-12, 08:16
The bros and sistas here damn power. All showing support after i kena suan for having no proper education.
Thanks for the info on ID. I will see if there try to smoke me.
No worries.
We are just sticking to the point and not getting distracted.:)
To add on to what others have mentioned,
1. Contractor/designer will always say that your requirement is understood and they don't need to write it in the contract. Do insist on having them included.
For negotiation and management, it is good to have a partner or fake partner so that one of you can be the "bad cop" :hell-hath-no-fury: to complain and be very fussy while the other one is seemingly reasonable and apologetic about the other person's behaviour :o
2. Check the internet for complaints about the contractors. Somewhere, someone is bound to have written something.
Most of them will not include penalty clauses, unless you are paying top dollar or the extra penalty is already priced in. I would not insist on this but have smaller payment milestones.Yup mine didn't include in the contract but I insisted on it before I signed on the dotted line. They kindly obliged so I signed. :sleep:
Yes, need false ceiling for the lights and fan. If not decided to have fan now or later, must inform ID to stengthen the false ceiling where the fan would be so that in future no need to change false ceiling.Don't really need false ceiling for fans/lights if the fans/lgihts are situated at the original location where the loose wires are left dangling from the ceiling. ;)
Don't really need false ceiling for fans/lights if the fans/lgihts are situated at the original location where the loose wires are left dangling from the ceiling. ;)
How much does it typically cost for a simple installation ?
How much does it typically cost for a simple installation ?Can't remember the exact figures but when you buy the ceiling fans, you have to option of getting them to install it for maybe less than $40 per installation. My father-in-law did the installation by himself so it can be FOC too. :)
Lights, fans, additional power sockets, curtains, grills, laundry hanger. And other items depend on what is included in yr condo eg towel rails.
If yours is a rental unit, advise you to consider not installing false ceiling as it will involve less hassle in case of leakage from upstairs. Just use the existing points for lighting provided by the developer. If you say new condo don't have leakage, that's not true. It depends on your luck. Shoddy workmanship can also result in leakage in a new condo. Has happened to me before so am speaking from experience.
Most probably I will rent it out first, so all i need to do is to install the lights/fan at the existing wires dangling from the ceiling right? Wonder how much this will cost, using philips energy saving bulbs. :D
Most probably I will rent it out first, so all i need to do is to install the lights/fan at the existing wires dangling from the ceiling right? Wonder how much this will cost, using philips energy saving bulbs. :D
Try this. http://choongying.creatorlabs.com/company.html
Most probably I will rent it out first, so all i need to do is to install the lights/fan at the existing wires dangling from the ceiling right? Wonder how much this will cost, using philips energy saving bulbs. :D
It very much depends on the type of light fittings you select (can be from cheap to very expensive) and the charges of the electrician (will usually quote you a price per item).
Found another one here:
http://www.sembawanglightinghouse.com/sale
Just wondering what are the minimum things to be done for a new condo? Just install the lights and can move in liaoz?
:beats-me-man:
It really depends on what you're looking for in your new place. Assuming the new condo doesn't have many defects, you can move in without doing much of anything, just that the place might not look fantastic lah.
Bare minimum, as others have mentioned, would probably be:
a) choosing your lighting (whether normal lights, LED, alcove) and that affects whether you need a false ceiling or not;
b) whether you need to do any built-in carpentry work (cupboards, etc);
c) whether there is any part of the house you're not really happy with (like changing toilet fixtures).
Other than the bare minimum, everything else is really because you want a specific look or requirement in your house. For us, as an example, we always custom-design a full height floor-to-ceiling bookshelf because that's what we like.
For renting, I advise you to do the bare minimum. If you customize, it may not be to your tenants' taste. Lights, fans, curtains and blinds would be good enough if the wardrobes/kitchen cabinets provided by the developer are decent. Then you wait to get a tenant. If they require any extras, then get them done. If not, you have saved yourself $$$ but not over-providing. Many tenants prefer to bring in their own furniture so there is no need to buy furniture until your first tenant tells you what he/she wants.
For my first rental unit, I did up the lights to the minimum, in fact the bedrooms were simple round fluorescent lights but quite nice-looking. To this day (12 years later), I have not been asked to replace any of the lighting and I have not had any void periods in my lettings (touch wood***). Ang-mor tenants prefer less ceiling lights and more floor-standing lamps (that kind of ambience more to their taste) so don't put in too many lightings. I find that HDB decor tend to over-cater the lighting until the small space looks rather tacky.
Most probably I will rent it out first, so all i need to do is to install the lights/fan at the existing wires dangling from the ceiling right? Wonder how much this will cost, using philips energy saving bulbs. :D
I rem it cost like $20-$25 per light point , $120 for new scv n Antannae point n $40 or more for additional socket so can easily cost $1k or more just to do up whole house lightings for electrician
I rem it cost like $20-$25 per light point , $120 for new scv n Antannae point n $40 or more for additional socket so can easily cost $1k or more just to do up whole house lightings for electrician
this is just to create new light points.. it will cost another sum of $$ to buy and install e lights easily few grand. Typically after I bargain to a comfortable price I try to get e lightings shop to include free light installation for me or charge small token only
wow....need to do budget carefully. :scared-4:
Budgetting is important. It is usually these small miscellaneous that are left out of our budgets... and yes lights can cost up to one or two thousand dollars. :)
Budgetting is important. It is usually these small miscellaneous that are left out of our budgets... and yes lights can cost up to one or two thousand dollars. :)
.... or more if your other half is into expensive designer lightings or Swaroski crystal chandelier and the likes.:D :D :D
my singaporean friends told me the problem started when the government adopted bilingualism when 90% of singaporeans were still speaking dialects. to help their kids survive in school, they began to speak "english" at home. that just made problems worse. to see what I mean, just listen to how locals speak to their kids, even today. Just listen how the pronounce the word "purple" or "curry."
Why don't you try learning to speak Chinese/Mandarin, and see how Chinese speaking people would be able to understand your english accented mandarin ? I don't see an issue with the way we Singaporean Chinese write or like you said "think in Chinese, write in English" .. well at least I am proud to say that most of us locals are effectively bilinggual.
I rem it cost like $20-$25 per light point , $120 for new scv n Antannae point n $40 or more for additional socket so can easily cost $1k or more just to do up whole house lightings for electrician
did a couple of installations recently. electrician from lighting shop charges 50 first point, subsequently 8 per point, 15 for each looping point. Thought the charge is low, through friend's recommendation, till I discovered many Balestier shops quote are around there too. however final bill somehow still a lot.
buttercarp
09-02-12, 14:30
Why don't you try learning to speak Chinese/Mandarin, and see how Chinese speaking people would be able to understand your english accented mandarin ? I don't see an issue with the way we Singaporean Chinese write or like you said "think in Chinese, write in English" .. well at least I am proud to say that most of us locals are effectively bilinggual.
I can't imagine stalingrad pronouncing the surname "Tan". Probably can't get it right even after countless tries.:47:
I can't imagine stalingrad pronouncing the surname "Tan". Probably can't get it right even after countless tries.:47:
Yeah like "ten" (e.g. sun tan).
kskong2000
09-02-12, 15:16
One of my friend has recently renovated his house without ID, he went to Malaysia to shop for lighting and furniture. For lighting, I heard from him is 50% cheaper compare to those sold in balestier. But you need to find a contractor to do intallation for you. For the furniture, a lot of furniture shop in JB offer delivery to Singapore but you need to pay 7% GST.
This is for your info but dont say I cheapo k.
If going to JB to buy lighting, please buy EXTRA as it will be a hassle to go all the way back there to get it changed. And I heard that it's not uncommon for some lights not to work when installed (not only in JB but Singapore also - except it's easier to get replacement in SG).
One of my friend has recently renovated his house without ID, he went to Malaysia to shop for lighting and furniture. For lighting, I heard from him is 50% cheaper compare to those sold in balestier. But you need to find a contractor to do intallation for you. For the furniture, a lot of furniture shop in JB offer delivery to Singapore but you need to pay 7% GST.
This is for your info but dont say I cheapo k.
prob true, though need to find out which outlet / recommendations.
recently bought a lot of lights from balestier. also some from china (choose those on ebay with good ratings). also discovered that prices at those shops at kelantan road block 30 thereabouts are comparable or even cheaper than those from china on ebays; in fact their prices are almost 50% off from the usual lighting shops (even those at balestier, but less fanciful range). btw transactions completed within ebays are slightly higher (than outside ebay - do at own risk).
kskong2000
09-02-12, 17:34
Nowadays everything is made in China. So no different on where you buy it.
Currently, taman nusa bestari in JB (close to 2nd link) has more than 10 furniture shops (mixture big and small size) and more than 5 lighting shops. Courts and a lot of big electronic shops also there. But i think electronics stuffs are cheaper in Singapore. If you interested to go and not sure on the location, can pm me. I can guide you there.
I am still doing my home work on these things. Hope can share some useful info with you all.
Nowadays everything is made in China. So no different on where you buy it.
Currently, taman nusa bestari in JB (close to 2nd link) has more than 10 furniture shops (mixture big and small size) and more than 5 lighting shops. Courts and a lot of big electronic shops also there. But i think electronics stuffs are cheaper in Singapore. If you interested to go and not sure on the location, can pm me. I can guide you there.
I am still doing my home work on these things. Hope can share some useful info with you all.
I am wondering what kind of savings we're talking about in absolute amounts not in percentages.
I am wondering what kind of savings we're talking about in absolute amounts not in percentages.
can share 1 example here:
this one retails in balestier at S$1.7k, after less = S$1.5k
ARES Renato model 10980100 24 WARM WHITE LED 24x1W/100-240V
http://tinyurl.com/8yjq868
got a generic lookalike for S$110+ include express shipping from
http://tinyurl.com/6q6kamz
the referenced ebay link is
http://tinyurl.com/7rr6qwf
actually emailed and corresponded with a few chinese retailers before i settled on this one. good ratings on ebay and responsive via emails. negotiated for better price through bulk purchases. 13X cheaper than original and works just as well.
another one:
bought 20W LED floodlight for S$70+ and 30W for S$110+ before gst. Brother-in-law recced and recommended this shop at kelantan road. lighting shop 50 to 100% higher.
unfortunately already bought a lot of other led, etc. otherwise will surely buy even more (esp generic stuff like downlights, from other sources), although the shop already gave very good deals.
planning to buy a dozen of these remote control RGB lightbulbs soon
http://tinyurl.com/76lbtdl
as a substitute for these Philips LED ambiance light
http://tinyurl.com/6oygwk9
disclaimer: i do not have any shares in links referenced above. just sharing my research.
can share 1 example here:
this one retails in balestier at S$1.7k, after less = S$1.5k
ARES Renato model 10980100 24 WARM WHITE LED 24x1W/100-240V
http://tinyurl.com/8yjq868
got a generic lookalike for S$110+ include express shipping from
http://tinyurl.com/6q6kamz
the referenced ebay link is
http://tinyurl.com/7rr6qwf
actually emailed and corresponded with a few chinese retailers before i settled on this one. good ratings on ebay and responsive via emails. negotiated for better price through bulk purchases. 13X cheaper than original and works just as well.
another one:
bought 20W LED floodlight for S$70+ and 30W for S$110+ before gst. Brother-in-law recced and recommended this shop at kelantan road. lighting shop 50 to 100% higher.
unfortunately already bought a lot of other led, etc. otherwise will surely buy even more (esp generic stuff like downlights, from other sources), although the shop already gave very good deals.
planning to buy a dozen of these remote control RGB lightbulbs soon
http://tinyurl.com/76lbtdl
as a substitute for these Philips LED ambiance light
http://tinyurl.com/6oygwk9
disclaimer: i do not have any shares in links referenced above. just sharing my research.
What's your experience with using LEDs instead of the normal light-bulbs?
What's your experience with using LEDs instead of the normal light-bulbs?
just installed, so no long term experience yet.
though can share installation and selection experience.
for crystals like swarovski, cannot use led, else gets a duller and "diluted" effect without the brilliance.
need to choose the colour temperature of leds. there can also be batch variability - same light but different colour temperature. ask the lighting shop for the colour temperature - if they say dun know, ask for the box - it's all listed there. i wanted 3000 to 3500k, but got 2700k instead for my warm white led. sometimes different models will have different colour temperature. most leds are phosphor-based to tint the light colour. leds can come with internal or external drivers too. there's so much to read if you wish to explore the topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode
collected many bookmarks - if interested, pm me.
off-thread - how to choose and match colours and colour wheel:
listed a few very useful tools here - to share with the brothers and sisters here.
http://colorschemedesigner.com/#
http://kuler.adobe.com/#themes/rating?time=30
http://pcv3.benjaminmoore.com/ui/cb_us/colorbasics.asp
also collected many bookmarks on this as well.
look at www.houzz.com for tons of pics, ideas, etc.
disclaimer: i do not have any shares in links referenced above. just sharing my research.
Thanks... good recommendations.:)
just installed, so no long term experience yet.
though can share installation and selection experience.
for crystals like swarovski, cannot use led, else gets a duller and "diluted" effect without the brilliance.
need to choose the colour temperature of leds. there can also be batch variability - same light but different colour temperature. ask the lighting shop for the colour temperature - if they say dun know, ask for the box - it's all listed there. i wanted 3000 to 3500k, but got 2700k instead for my warm white led. sometimes different models will have different colour temperature. most leds are phosphor-based to tint the light colour. leds can come with internal or external drivers too. there's so much to read if you wish to explore the topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode
collected many bookmarks - if interested, pm me.
off-thread - how to choose and match colours and colour wheel:
listed a few very useful tools here - to share with the brothers and sisters here.
http://colorschemedesigner.com/#
http://kuler.adobe.com/#themes/rating?time=30
http://pcv3.benjaminmoore.com/ui/cb_us/colorbasics.asp
also collected many bookmarks on this as well.
look at www.houzz.com for tons of pics, ideas, etc.
disclaimer: i do not have any shares in links referenced above. just sharing my research.
I can c tt u v excited abt artificial light. Prob u can b a lighting specialist.
just installed, so no long term experience yet.
though can share installation and selection experience.
for crystals like swarovski, cannot use led, else gets a duller and "diluted" effect without the brilliance.
need to choose the colour temperature of leds. there can also be batch variability - same light but different colour temperature. ask the lighting shop for the colour temperature - if they say dun know, ask for the box - it's all listed there. i wanted 3000 to 3500k, but got 2700k instead for my warm white led. sometimes different models will have different colour temperature. most leds are phosphor-based to tint the light colour. leds can come with internal or external drivers too. there's so much to read if you wish to explore the topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode
collected many bookmarks - if interested, pm me.
off-thread - how to choose and match colours and colour wheel:
listed a few very useful tools here - to share with the brothers and sisters here.
http://colorschemedesigner.com/#
http://kuler.adobe.com/#themes/rating?time=30
http://pcv3.benjaminmoore.com/ui/cb_us/colorbasics.asp
also collected many bookmarks on this as well.
look at www.houzz.com (http://www.houzz.com) for tons of pics, ideas, etc.
disclaimer: i do not have any shares in links referenced above. just sharing my research.
Thank you for information. Sibeh power.
I can c tt u v excited abt artificial light. Prob u can b a lighting specialist.
cos i am a noob, that's why read around the topic.
for latest reno, reading led, positioning of downlights, ceiling fans, how to choose colours & paints, matching, etc etc ... :D
i wish my id can do all these, but they behave like contractors only; won't go into this.
Hi all who has contributed. Sorry to hijack this thread but do anyone here if it's possible to have the dish washer stacked on top of a washing machine?
Can this be done and even if can, what are the pitfalls to highlight?
new2mondrian
11-02-12, 23:17
Hi all who has contributed. Sorry to hijack this thread but do anyone here if it's possible to have the dish washer stacked on top of a washing machine?
Can this be done and even if can, what are the pitfalls to highlight?
It is possible if your dishwasher is a half-sized unit, not a full sized one. But logistically, it might be challenging. Dishwasher needs its own water piping and waste water outlet. If you stay in a condo, you may have to hack up all the floor tiles and reconstruct an additional waste outlet, on top of diverting an additional water tap. Otherwise it is a pain to switch between the two.
My Bosch dishwasher costs me more than $1K, not counting the incremental charges that came along with it (setting up its own dedicated waste water outlet), electrical socket, water tap, and installing a base. In the end, I hardly use it. My domestic helper prefers to wash everything manually. Bottomline is, the dishwasher is more often than not a white elephant, akin to the built-in coffee machine (since the Nespresso machine is so commonplace these days). Don't get one (if you haven't committed to purchasing one).
Hi all who has contributed. Sorry to hijack this thread but do anyone here if it's possible to have the dish washer stacked on top of a washing machine?
Can this be done and even if can, what are the pitfalls to highlight?
You will have difficulty to open it (since it's opened from the top). Difficult to stack the upper tier (which usually you will put in cups, mugs, glasses which can be fragile/breakable).
As others have mentioned, you have to get water inlet and outlet sorted out.
And I'm not sure if it will be stable on top of a washing machine since it doesn't have a stacking kit and is not built to be on top of other appliances. Those dryers which stack on top of a washing machine usually have a stacking kit which allows it to be attached to the washing machine underneath.
If anything goes wrong with the washing machine or dishwasher, the manufacturer can tell you that they are not meant to be used in that way (with dishwasher stacked on top) and maybe your warranty will be void.
Ang Mor used to treat Asians as 2nd class citizens. Perhaps such mentality still exists.
screw him...look who's in deep trouble now and why is he squatting here in SG
disrespectful culture will kill their society
say all u want abt asians
We r the kings with d cash$$
just heard fm buddy in states. they are changing rules 2 give visa 2 asian property buyers. those days apply visa then buy
they need our $$ BAdly
Thanks or your advice. Good point. I had thought of finding my own contractor too but unfortunately, i do not have any good contacts to begin with.
I was thinking if it would be worth it (assuming their mark up is S$15,000) having an ID company be responsible for my unit. Or save on the S$15,000 and enjoy the process. Sekali i become pro at doing it and may end up being a main-con myself.
To answer your question, i would like to do up this unit to stay in after checking out all the nice showflats. My current place is more of a dump (imagine... no ID, alot of thrash and rubbish, poor lighting).:p
Be very careful of prices with VO (variation Order) where the contractor prices creeps up after the work begins.
Thinks like clearing of rubbles and stuff if you are doing major reno. GST and the usual crap about not inclusive of ......
Also to beware of. Make sure that the contractor knows how to protect yoir funiture or floorings. Some times, the quality of care is really shocking and you end up with a partially newly renovated place after it has been renovated becuase your floor finish is totally ruin.
my place after reno
http://www.keehian.com/deco/dp_13.jpg
ALWAYS work with someone who is familiar or recommended by family and close friends.
Frankly, there is no way you can put everything in black and white. In this business, trust is very impt. Choose someone whom you know from experience is good.
my place after reno
http://www.keehian.com/deco/dp_13.jpg
ALWAYS work with someone who is familiar or recommended by family and close friends.
Frankly, there is no way you can put everything in black and white. In this business, trust is very impt. Choose someone whom you know from experience is good.
i remembered these photos of your lovely home at lentor. very very very nice interior design and layout! can you please share with me the paint colours (code) for all those walls and ceilings? if you dun mind, can pm me more photos of your rooms and the wall colours? cos right now frantically looking through paint colours and combinations. thanks in advance.
Beware of independent IDs that charge a fee and are not tied to any ID firms. Hourly rated and gives you the option to engage your own contractor (of course the IDs have recommended contractors who are familiar with their works).
While most ID firms charge you a whole package for design and reno work (perhaps 2 rounds of mark up), you are billed separately for the independent ID and main contractor. The reno work is supposed to be cheaper than the ID firms. Sounds like a reasonable deal, isn't it?
The problem arose with the the project management part. My ID did not actively manage the project and several things were overlooked. My spouse even had to take a week off to supervise personally onsite. There is no accountability from ID and he also MIA many times. Spouse had to be so hands-on in liaising with the main contractor. Unfortunately, certain things were discovered too late to be rectified.
On the other hand, does not make sense to pay the ID to actively manage the whole project. Even the ID himself did not want do that. He would only popped by once or twice a week to "look around", and bill us for those sessions.
Perhaps this kind of arrangement works for some people. The overall design is rather nice, but the weakest link here is definitely the project management part. Everyone who has been through a renovation can definitely attest that it is extremely frustrating to handle contractors. We did not sign up for that part...
Unless you do not mind playing the project manager role, I would say, look for a reputable ID firm.
Even if you trust that ID firm or its a reputable firm, you must also personally be involved during the entire renovation process. You along are responsible for your own home, no one else is... getting into legal disputes or unpleasant confrontation only result in further losses for both parties... ;)
True, I agree we must do our part. But not to the point where we have to arrange the appointments personally for the different contractors to come in, and plant ourselves on site to coordinate the activities, from morning to evening.
We probably would not award him the contact, if we knew we had to be so hands-on.
i remembered these photos of your lovely home at lentor. very very very nice interior design and layout! can you please share with me the paint colours (code) for all those walls and ceilings? if you dun mind, can pm me more photos of your rooms and the wall colours? cos right now frantically looking through paint colours and combinations. thanks in advance.
all my rooms are same color. I think it is white for ceiling and off white for the walls.
Either picket white or Bone white I think. You can't go wrong with off white.
Even if you trust that ID firm or its a reputable firm, you must also personally be involved during the entire renovation process. You along are responsible for your own home, no one else is... getting into legal disputes or unpleasant confrontation only result in further losses for both parties... ;)
and have the expectation that it cannot be 100% perfect. If it is like 90% good, then try not to be picky over the last 10%.
This will help to make the working relationship much better.
and have the expectation that it cannot be 100% perfect. If it is like 90% good, then try not to be picky over the last 10%.
This will help to make the working relationship much better.Yup but can always try to push up to 100% as and when you deem reasonable and not at the expense of souring relationship. Actually i guess the ID firm is more concerned about souring relationship than we are... :cheers6:
I was at Expo and met some of the ID companies. I must say some of them are packaged very attractively. As i am not an expert in this field, i will look at their package with a pinch of salt. I don't understand why they have to wear all black. Are they some mafia or trying to act cool/slim? ID people should be trendy isn't it?
Well, all these ID companies have almost similar payment terms. Advance payment followed by payment before commencement of work. I find that this leaves us very vulnerable to their running away if work isn't rectified.
They refused to accept partial payment before work commencement, followed by full payment for work done.
I think we have to work together and squeeze these IDs. Insist on at least 10% retention until work is completed/rectified. I was offered 5% but it was too little, assuming work is S$20,000, that will mean only S$1,000. Anyone would just forfeit the 5% and run.
Lastly, they emphasized they are casetrust certified but they are unable to reveal how much their paid up capital is.
Be very careful of prices with VO (variation Order) where the contractor prices creeps up after the work begins.
Thinks like clearing of rubbles and stuff if you are doing major reno. GST and the usual crap about not inclusive of ......
Also to beware of. Make sure that the contractor knows how to protect yoir funiture or floorings. Some times, the quality of care is really shocking and you end up with a partially newly renovated place after it has been renovated becuase your floor finish is totally ruin.
Noted. Thank you.
I was at Expo and met some of the ID companies. I must say some of them are packaged very attractively. As i am not an expert in this field, i will look at their package with a pinch of salt. I don't understand why they have to wear all black. Are they some mafia or trying to act cool/slim? ID people should be trendy isn't it?
Well, all these ID companies have almost similar payment terms. Advance payment followed by payment before commencement of work. I find that this leaves us very vulnerable to their running away if work isn't rectified.
They refused to accept partial payment before work commencement, followed by full payment for work done.
I think we have to work together and squeeze these IDs. Insist on at least 10% retention until work is completed/rectified. I was offered 5% but it was too little, assuming work is S$20,000, that will mean only S$1,000. Anyone would just forfeit the 5% and run.
Lastly, they emphasized they are casetrust certified but they are unable to reveal how much their paid up capital is.Casetrust is meaningless. My earlier ID also casetrust but closed down after 4 years. Now want to go back to them also cannot... Lol! :scared-3:
Casetrust is meaningless. My earlier ID also casetrust but closed down after 4 years. Now want to go back to them also cannot... Lol! :scared-3:
That's what i told them. They can easily close and open another company under a different name. I remember a few schools were also under casetrust but in the end run road.
I gave them the challenge. Take my job, quote a reasonable fee, offer 20% retention for one warranty year. They say payment term is standard and cannot change. i was like WTF.
That's what i told them. They can easily close and open another company under a different name. I remember a few schools were also under casetrust but in the end run road.
I gave them the challenge. Take my job, quote a reasonable fee, offer 20% retention for one warranty year. They say payment term is standard and cannot change. i was like WTF.My suggesting is not to change the terms in the contract but to add to those existing clause to protect yourself. They will be hesitant but should be more negotiable than to make them change their terms... add easier lah.. :cheers6:
I was at Expo and met some of the ID companies. I must say some of them are packaged very attractively. As i am not an expert in this field, i will look at their package with a pinch of salt. I don't understand why they have to wear all black. Are they some mafia or trying to act cool/slim? ID people should be trendy isn't it?
Well, all these ID companies have almost similar payment terms. Advance payment followed by payment before commencement of work. I find that this leaves us very vulnerable to their running away if work isn't rectified.
They refused to accept partial payment before work commencement, followed by full payment for work done.
I think we have to work together and squeeze these IDs. Insist on at least 10% retention until work is completed/rectified. I was offered 5% but it was too little, assuming work is S$20,000, that will mean only S$1,000. Anyone would just forfeit the 5% and run.
Lastly, they emphasized they are casetrust certified but they are unable to reveal how much their paid up capital is.
I think it is crazy to sign up with an ID that advertise at Expo. I think good IDs rely on word of mouth....
Think you miss my post (see below).
What I wrote below is not a joke, I stick to these rules. :cheers4:
Never just grab any ID based on their presentation. :(
Are they sure they are casetrust certified? If so, please complain them to CASE! You can check CASE website
http://www.case.org.sg/model_agreements.html
that CASE recommend:
1) Never pay more than 10% for downpayment.
2) Always have 10% retained and pay only after 2 weeks after completion.
It is a joke that their terms can't be changed! Rather, you have to insist that they use CASE's model renovation contract and sign it. :beats-me-man:
I was at Expo and met some of the ID companies. I must say some of them are packaged very attractively. As i am not an expert in this field, i will look at their package with a pinch of salt. I don't understand why they have to wear all black. Are they some mafia or trying to act cool/slim? ID people should be trendy isn't it?
Well, all these ID companies have almost similar payment terms. Advance payment followed by payment before commencement of work. I find that this leaves us very vulnerable to their running away if work isn't rectified.
They refused to accept partial payment before work commencement, followed by full payment for work done.
I think we have to work together and squeeze these IDs. Insist on at least 10% retention until work is completed/rectified. I was offered 5% but it was too little, assuming work is S$20,000, that will mean only S$1,000. Anyone would just forfeit the 5% and run.
Lastly, they emphasized they are casetrust certified but they are unable to reveal how much their paid up capital is.
Break into schedules/milestones lor ;). E.g. full renovation:
1) Downpayment - 10%
2) Hacking & wet work / tiling etc - 20%
3) Plumbing, WC, bath etc installation - 20%
4) Cabinet work - 20%
5) Electrical works - 10%
6) Wallpapers / painting etc all done - 10%
7) After 1 month all done & no defects - 10%
Above is just a rough guide. You can have any combination etc but make sure don't pay more for each stage than necessary otherwise they collect 20% instalment and can run away do nothing more! :D
Make sure they provide 1 year warranty. :ashamed1:
However, all warranty is useless unless you get a trust-worthy ID. :p
Getting a good id is unlike finding tenant for your property. you can't expect a good ID to accept all your new term and conditions and they probably can't be bothered as good Recommended id can be very busy with new jobs. I have engage recommended Id from home magazines and Reno forum.. And has been very pleasant working with these id. They are responsive and not calculative on the material selection as long as within budget ( and exceed the quoted no.). Avoid those Id from the exhibition, those are usually the young and inexperience id, not necessarily lousy but slimmer chance for you to engage a good Id. My personal opinion.
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