View Full Version : During your warranty period, what are the "typical defects" to look out for?
Are developers able to meet your demands?
Are developers able to meet your demands?
remember to register each and every item on the day 1 when TOP, record in paper...trust me, just complain and complain...they sure to get the contractor to attend to...slowly slowly milk them....
don wait till near defect warranty period near over...alot of things sure forget
item from misalignment of the glass windows, marble floor chips, wooden floor uneven...air con noisy......so many many...
remember to register each and every item on the day 1 when TOP, record in paper...trust me, just complain and complain...they sure to get the contractor to attend to...slowly slowly milk them....
don wait till near defect warranty period near over...alot of things sure forget
item from misalignment of the glass windows, marble floor chips, wooden floor uneven...air con noisy......so many many...
how long is the defect warranty period? do we need to wait for the developer to rectify everything then start our own minor reno etc? coz if we do concurrently, what is to stop the developer from alleging that those were caused by our own contractor? :tongue3:
how long is the defect warranty period? do we need to wait for the developer to rectify everything then start our own minor reno etc? coz if we do concurrently, what is to stop the developer from alleging that those were caused by our own contractor? :tongue3:
defect warranty is one year. As to how much time is given to list the defects... i also don't know. Normally i kpkb until they say yes to me.
Compile in words with photos, mention names, date and time these defects were highlighted. The developer must acknowledge the defects and obtain their clearance for you to proceed with renovation. Sometimes the defects needed to be rectified before you can renovate.
If yours is a PC, remember to seal the taps etc to prevent them from scratching your chrome items. I wouldn't allow them access to water bcos they may choke the basin with their thrash/dirty your $2,000 automatic toilet bowl. :2cents:
I'll usually take my reno contractor down to do check with me... reno works which are not affected by the defect can then proceed first while developer repair the defects... those that are affected will have to wait for defects to be rectified... hopefully developer will not drag too long... :cool:
It is important to be the first few to collect the keys as you will get to submit the defect list first. They would have already rectifed the defects while more owners come in with their defect list. The workers will be more dilgent to do the rectification well initially.:2cents:
iwantgizmos
10-02-12, 15:51
I found some defect checklists online which might help as a starter guide.
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-1.pdf
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-2.pdf
I found some defect checklists online which might help as a starter guide.
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-1.pdf
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-2.pdf
Great! Thanks for this!
I found some defect checklists online which might help as a starter guide.
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-1.pdf
http://diva79.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/defects-checklist-2.pdfThank you big big... me needing it soon! ;)
how long is the defect warranty period? do we need to wait for the developer to rectify everything then start our own minor reno etc? coz if we do concurrently, what is to stop the developer from alleging that those were caused by our own contractor? :tongue3:
One year for the internal outfitting. Construction joint, roof etc 10 years
Start the record the day one. When just get the keys, usually I on the air con full blast, overnight for 2 -3 day . It may sound Ele wasting, but aft 2 - 3 days , if there any condensation or water leak it will surface out...can see the water batch...then can ask the contractor to redo the insulation properly....
Anyone experienced this before? My unit going to TOP soon so I sneaked in to take a look. I noticed that my master bathroom has a standing shower but my S&P stated I should get a long bath. I mentioned this problem before in this forum but then I only suspect from the floor layout. Now its confirmed... what kind of redress can I seek?
devilplate
01-03-12, 09:22
Anyone experienced this before? My unit going to TOP soon so I sneaked in to take a look. I noticed that my master bathroom has a standing shower but my S&P stated I should get a long bath. I mentioned this problem before in this forum but then I only suspect from the floor layout. Now its confirmed... what kind of redress can I seek?
if u want the long bath, tok to ur lawyer upon receiving the keys
Allow me to share another problem which is v unfortunate. When I bought this unit, my agent told me that the developer told him that all units will only be given one panel of wardrobe in the Master bedroom. As such, since my master bedroom is big enough for two panels of wardrobe, I decided to do up the area myself and requested through my lawyer to have that wardrobe move to bedroom 2. Now, I realised that all other units in my stack has 2 panels of wardrobe (say 12 ft in total) in the master bedroom except my unit with only 1 panel of wardrobe in bedroom 2 (say 6 ft). If I knew there are 2 panels of wardrobe, I'd not have made that special request.
Developer say I requested to change and they're nice enough to change le. They will not add another panel of wardrobe for me. So I have been misinformed and made a decision based on that misinformation... sigh! How? Me suay or should I chase after developer (which my lawyer say quite difficult) or agent. I have no evidence of that verbal conversation... :hell-hath-no-fury:
devilplate
01-03-12, 09:54
i will put up request to do the wardrobe lor...if developer dunwan to entertain u this time...den u LPPL
i will put up request to do the wardrobe lor...if developer dunwan to entertain u this time...den u LPPLThink I LPPL already... :banghead:.
should I chase after developer (which my lawyer say quite difficult) or agent. I have no evidence of that verbal conversation... :hell-hath-no-fury:
chase the agent. developer has no fault in this. agent misrepresented it. complain to CEA, and to the agency head, ask for compensation. and tell developer about it (about bad agent from this agency). agency gets jobs from developer, they care about this if developer stops giving jobs to them.
master bathroom has a standing shower but my S&P stated I should get a long bath
This one on the other hand, is interesting ;). this is material difference. you can ask lawyer to make a demand for it. Most probably developer made a mistake in the S&P specs. Well, you can claim you bought the unit on the understanding that this is given. If it is not, you really have a right to demand compensation. What I know in some cases is, developer was smart to detect this early, and send out a clarification mail before some one found out the mistake in the S&P.
If got balcony or planter fill with water to check for ponding.
Check all power points too.
Best is when u r taking down the defects, take photos too so that when there is a dispute, u have proofs.
hehehe, ever made the developer pay $$$ for defects that were not done in time according to contract. I think it is 1 month plus 14 days from day of defects lodged.
Make sure u have good lawyer though.
chase the agent. developer has no fault in this. agent misrepresented it. complain to CEA, and to the agency head, ask for compensation. and tell developer about it (about bad agent from this agency). agency gets jobs from developer, they care about this if developer stops giving jobs to them.
This one on the other hand, is interesting ;). this is material difference. you can ask lawyer to make a demand for it. Most probably developer made a mistake in the S&P specs. Well, you can claim you bought the unit on the understanding that this is given. If it is not, you really have a right to demand compensation. What I know in some cases is, developer was smart to detect this early, and send out a clarification mail before some one found out the mistake in the S&P.Sigh.... I only wanted to move house but now got to do all these other admin stuff... sianz to the max... if I forget it, the thing might return to haunt me... sianz X 10. :doh:
chase the agent. developer has no fault in this. agent misrepresented it. complain to CEA, and to the agency head, ask for compensation. and tell developer about it (about bad agent from this agency). agency gets jobs from developer, they care about this if developer stops giving jobs to them.
CEA says my case is weak coz I have no evidence of that verbal conversation with the agent but can still lodge the complaint lah... :)
If got balcony or planter fill with water to check for ponding.
Check all power points too.
Best is when u r taking down the defects, take photos too so that when there is a dispute, u have proofs.
hehehe, ever made the developer pay $$$ for defects that were not done in time according to contract. I think it is 1 month plus 14 days from day of defects lodged.
Make sure u have good lawyer though.What is there to check for ponding? You mean to say water cannot be drained out on time? Wow! Need quite a lot of water. Best is if that day it was raining... :)
What is there to check for ponding? You mean to say water cannot be drained out on time? Wow! Need quite a lot of water. Best is if that day it was raining... :)
The floor maybe uneven so after the water is drained there are pockets of collections of water. Agree best is after a rain then u can see the result.
The floor maybe uneven so after the water is drained there are pockets of collections of water. Agree best is after a rain then u can see the result.If the balcony tiles are rocky in nature, sure will have puddles of water all around... unless its the smooth homogeneous tiles lor... :)
If the balcony tiles are rocky in nature, sure will have puddles of water all around... unless its the smooth homogeneous tiles lor... :)
Planter box where got rocky tiles, cement only lah!
Planter box where got rocky tiles, cement only lah!U referring to planter box.. thought balcony. My planter box is outside the balcony so no need to check lah...:D
Think I LPPL already... :banghead:.
ysyap
You were too pro-active in this. In the end, back-fired liao.
Unfortunately, you got played out by the agent misinformation.
Take it as a lesson learnt. And we all also learnt from your unfortunate experience that next time must never never take agent's word for it.
If you are not successful in your appeals, take this as an opportunity to source a good carpenter and do up your MBR wardrobe nicely the way you want it rather than the generic version given by developer.
Good luck!
There is always this case of what u see in the showflat is not what u get when it is delivered.
I always take pictures (try to have the consent) of the showflat and show units, including the show model.
My new baby just collected is being short changed from the developer as they shown in the show model. Well, they are going to have good time from me.
There is always this case of what u see in the showflat is not what u get when it is delivered.
I always take pictures (try to have the consent) of the showflat and show units, including the show model.
My new baby just collected is being short changed from the developer as they shown in the show model. Well, they are going to have good time from me.
:simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
Complain to all authorities. Write to the Straits Times. We cannot let developer get away with it. :tsk-tsk:
Agents in particular are very fast to say YES to all questions asked about what is included or not.
I think we should lobby that the detailed floor plan (with all measurements and included items like wardrobes, windows, bathtubs, shower cubicle) should be made available to the buyer at the time of purchase.
:simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
Complain to all authorities. Write to the Straits Times. We cannot let developer get away with it. :tsk-tsk:
Agents in particular are very fast to say YES to all questions asked about what is included or not.
I think we should lobby that the detailed floor plan (with all measurements and included items like wardrobes, windows, bathtubs, shower cubicle) should be made available to the buyer at the time of purchase.Dimensions are usually missing from the floorplans...
ysyap
You were too pro-active in this. In the end, back-fired liao.
Unfortunately, you got played out by the agent misinformation.
Take it as a lesson learnt. And we all also learnt from your unfortunate experience that next time must never never take agent's word for it.
If you are not successful in your appeals, take this as an opportunity to source a good carpenter and do up your MBR wardrobe nicely the way you want it rather than the generic version given by developer.
Good luck!Sigh.... learning experience indeed.... anyway now I've instructed my lawyer to suggest that I'll not pursue the long bath issue but in return, I want the wardrobe installed... hopefully developer will consent. Hmmm... I can live without the long bath. :spliff2:
There is always this case of what u see in the showflat is not what u get when it is delivered.
I always take pictures (try to have the consent) of the showflat and show units, including the show model.
My new baby just collected is being short changed from the developer as they shown in the show model. Well, they are going to have good time from me.Be mindful of the disclaimer clause that reads, 'While every reasonable care has been taken in preparing this brochure and floor plans and in constructing the models and showflat, the Developer and its agents cannot be held responsible for any inaccuracies or omissions...' :spliff: Use your S&P better...
Dimensions are usually missing from the floorplans...
Precisely. This could lead to surprises when you find that you cannot fit any other furniture in the bedroom after the bed has been put in. These days the showflat has to have the exact dimensions. So open eyes BIG BIG and take yr tape measure to the show flat. The interior designers are very creative in doing up the flat to "hide" the lack of real space. They put nice nice design picture on the wall so you look at the picture and distract you from the real practical issues like WHERE TO PUT GIRL-GIRL'S (or boy-boy's) study desk?
The showflats I have looked in lately have really not much room to swing a cat in after putting essential furniture.
The agents get a (dots....) look in their eyes when I open up the measuring tape......
Precisely. This could lead to surprises when you find that you cannot fit any other furniture in the bedroom after the bed has been put in. These days the showflat has to have the exact dimensions. So open eyes BIG BIG and take yr tape measure to the show flat. The interior designers are very creative in doing up the flat to "hide" the lack of real space. They put nice nice design picture on the wall so you look at the picture and distract you from the real practical issues like WHERE TO PUT GIRL-GIRL'S (or boy-boy's) study desk?
The showflats I have looked in lately have really not much room to swing a cat in after putting essential furniture.
The agents get a (dots....) look in their eyes when I open up the measuring tape......Great idea... take a measuring tape... and yes unit sizes are shrinking like nobody's business. Last time kitchen size can comfortably sit whole family for dinner. Now, kitchen sizes are so so small... :doh:
Great idea... take a measuring tape... and yes unit sizes are shrinking like nobody's business. Last time kitchen size can comfortably sit whole family for dinner. Now, kitchen sizes are so so small... :doh:
Ya if you are really serious about the unit, enlarge the floor plan BIG and jot down the actual show flat measurements. List down the supposedly inclusive items and write down the brands (eg Bosch cooker). Write down the name of the agent and his certification number (or whatever you call it - the one that shows he has a licence). Scan and save into a pdf file. Use that as a check when your baby is delivered. It is also helpful in the future to plan for carpentry or furniture or shopping around for designers.
If you take down the agent licence number as you are listing down the items, I think he/she will take extra care to double check on them before anyhow saying yes, they are included.
Ya if you are really serious about the unit, enlarge the floor plan BIG and jot down the actual show flat measurements. List down the supposedly inclusive items and write down the brands (eg Bosch cooker). Write down the name of the agent and his certification number (or whatever you call it - the one that shows he has a licence). Scan and save into a pdf file. Use that as a check when your baby is delivered. It is also helpful in the future to plan for carpentry or furniture or shopping around for designers.
If you take down the agent licence number as you are listing down the items, I think he/she will take extra care to double check on them before anyhow saying yes, they are included.
I so love your idea, man......must remember this if I ever go showflat next time with serious intention of buying.......... :D
I so love your idea, man......must remember this if I ever go showflat next time with serious intention of buying.......... :D
hha so most of the time you are not serious on buying?
Dimensions are usually missing from the floorplans...
if Dimensions of the room is within 3% difference by law we can't do anything to the developers :(
if Dimensions of the room is within 3% difference by law we can't do anything to the developers :(I suppose that is a reasonable demand, considering that many times when construction commences on site, things will vary for various reasons such as land surveying constraints. ;) So your 1000 sqft unit can become 941 sqft after 3% shrinkage for the length and the breadth... Lol! That is pretty significant... :scared-4:
I suppose that is a reasonable demand, considering that many times when construction commences on site, things will vary for various reasons such as land surveying constraints. ;) So your 1000 sqft unit can become 941 sqft after 3% shrinkage for the length and the breadth... Lol! That is pretty significant... :scared-4:
Yes precisely. For a large 2000sqft unit, that will be quite a big difference :scared-4:
Yes precisely. For a large 2000sqft unit, that will be quite a big difference :scared-4:Buying bigger house will have bigger risk... :scared-4: Can it be a case where the developer will purposely reduce length and breadth by 3% and so save on cost? :rolleyes:
At prices of over 1000 psf, they should change the law. I don't think 3% variation is acceptable as the difference is a substantial amount of money.
At prices of over 1000 psf, they should change the law. I don't think 3% variation is acceptable as the difference is a substantial amount of money.Agreed but I guess the authorities probably already took this into consideration before implementing the rules... :(
imagine a 3xx sqft MM they still minus 3% :banghead:
It'll be interesting to conduct a nation wide project to find out in all the units with 3% difference, how many units have 3% more instead of 3% less? Think its probably close to zero? If so, is this indicative that it might be more deliberate than accidental, which was the very reason for this provision given by the authorities. :rolleyes:
Buying bigger house will have bigger risk... :scared-4: Can it be a case where the developer will purposely reduce length and breadth by 3% and so save on cost? :rolleyes:
I should think that the 3% variation refers to floor area as a whole and not specifically the length of breadth? that is my understanding when I read the S&P.... :confused:
hha so most of the time you are not serious on buying?
last time looking for new place then I go showflat mah........then I found & bought already so stop going lor. go there to happy happy look-see but end up facing the agents I lose my appetite only......so usually I will not go showflat unless I have an objective.....
so if I ever want to upgrade etc, I will go armed with a tape measure.......hehehe.......
unfortunately, the survey result is not given to the buyer
Malaysia and HK, have a better system to details all measurements
I should think that the 3% variation refers to floor area as a whole and not specifically the length of breadth? that is my understanding when I read the S&P.... :confused:Hey you are right. Thank you for the clarification. So a 1000 sqft unit can have size of between 970 sqft to 1030 sqft. So how often is it 1030 sqft? If its genuinely acting on the basis of accidents and physical constraints, there should be a 50% mix for both cases. Hmmm... is it really 50% distribution? :rolleyes:
Hi,
Will the S&P purchase from subsale same as from developer? All the spects that the first buyer got will also be passed down to the subsale buyer? Subsale buyer wil be in a disadvantage on checking the agreed items when the property TOP.
Actually to be fair, 3% is norm for construction industry. Construction for normal houses is not precision engineering. The allowance given is to cater for various tolerance level in the civil works. Hey even thickness of the wall/cladding can increase/decrease the size easily by 2% or more.
What really is lacking in SG is the exact dimension in the sales information. In HK, the exact length and width of each room is given. There is no ambiguity. You can do whatever you want in the show flat, but with actual dimension given, perspective buyers can do their own due deligence.
I dun understand why MND or URA never enforce exact dimensions in sales brochures in SG. If you see the wonderfully decorated room is actually just 2m by 2m, I wonder how many will still commit to buy their dream home.
devilplate
03-03-12, 00:04
Actually to be fair, 3% is norm for construction industry. Construction for normal houses is not precision engineering. The allowance given is to cater for various tolerance level in the civil works. Hey even thickness of the wall/cladding can increase/decrease the size easily by 2% or more.
What really is lacking in SG is the exact dimension in the sales information. In HK, the exact length and width of each room is given. There is no ambiguity. You can do whatever you want in the show flat, but with actual dimension given, perspective buyers can do their own due deligence.
I dun understand why MND or URA never enforce exact dimensions in sales brochures in SG. If you see the wonderfully decorated room is actually just 2m by 2m, I wonder how many will still commit to buy their dream home.
they will still buy one la....
Mm living rm only as big as a queen size bed and ppl still buy lor....can easily estimate from flrplan leh....wakakaka
S&P agreement did mention that floor area can have difference of up to 3% but if the floor plan does not come with actual dimensions, that statement in the agreement is as good as asking somebody go fly kite...
My lawyer say can write in to developer to request for the dimensions but they are not obliged to provide them. What logic? :confused:
They only provide the floor area of my unit. Does it mean I have to literally add up the dimensions and measure from outside planter box, etc? Its practically impossible to obtain the floor area wat! :eek:
S&P agreement did mention that floor area can have difference of up to 3% but if the floor plan does not come with actual dimensions, that statement in the agreement is as good as asking somebody go fly kite...
My lawyer say can write in to developer to request for the dimensions but they are not obliged to provide them. What logic? :confused:
They only provide the floor area of my unit. Does it mean I have to literally add up the dimensions and measure from outside planter box, etc? Its practically impossible to obtain the floor area wat! :eek:
Maybe somebody with surveyor friends can help enlighten us if they have any special devices to help measure floor area accurately. Surveyors should be able to do that as part of their job.
Maybe somebody with surveyor friends can help enlighten us if they have any special devices to help measure floor area accurately. Surveyors should be able to do that as part of their job.You might be right but I seriously doubt it. I sold a unit to a surveyor in the past. She was merely using measuring tape like everyone else... no special equipment leh! :cool:
You might be right but I seriously doubt it. I sold a unit to a surveyor in the past. She was merely using measuring tape like everyone else... no special equipment leh! :cool:
Then we are at the mercy of the developers right? Whatever they declare to be the floor area, we are not really able to verify it accurately. Who knows? They may have been short-changing consumers all these years. Just think of it.....if everybody gets 3% less floor area than what they paid for.....the developer is really laughing all the way to the bank. :tongue3: 10% "free GFA" courtesy of ura and 3% "free allowance" for technical reasons. We really are carrot-heads everyone who buys from developer???
Then we are at the mercy of the developers right? Whatever they declare to be the floor area, we are not really able to verify it accurately. Who knows? They may have been short-changing consumers all these years. Just think of it.....if everybody gets 3% less floor area than what they paid for.....the developer is really laughing all the way to the bank. :tongue3: 10% "free GFA" courtesy of ura and 3% "free allowance" for technical reasons. We really are carrot-heads everyone who buys from developer???
Govt has been hammering buyers n sellers n property agents v hard, but it is rather lax on developers, to e point of incentivising them. Why?
Then we are at the mercy of the developers right? Whatever they declare to be the floor area, we are not really able to verify it accurately. Who knows? They may have been short-changing consumers all these years. Just think of it.....if everybody gets 3% less floor area than what they paid for.....the developer is really laughing all the way to the bank. :tongue3: 10% "free GFA" courtesy of ura and 3% "free allowance" for technical reasons. We really are carrot-heads everyone who buys from developer???We're carrot heads only until we sell to the next carrot head at the same floor area and earn back (not at a loss)... :cheers6:
Govt has been hammering buyers n sellers n property agents v hard, but it is rather lax on developers, to e point of incentivising them. Why?Developers also kana lah but not like the way buyers, sellers and agents kana... :mad:
Developers also kana lah but not like the way buyers, sellers and agents kana... :mad:
Buyers should BOYCOTT developers and new launches until they are desperate and lelong lelong....... rather than adding fuel to developers' greed and appetite for higher and higher launch psf.
Those who cannot afford the downpayment for resale should delay buying until they save up the downpayment amount. Better value in resales. People should wake up to this....
If everyone does the above, then buyers will have the upper hand and developers will eat grass.
BUT due to buyers' greed and impatience, developers are eating caviar (esp FEO) and buyers are paying for it (through their noses). Buyers are accepting smaller and smaller units making living conditions worse and worse for future generations. Their grandchildren and great grandchildren will be living SOHO style in tiny apartments.
:tongue3:
Buyers should BOYCOTT developers and new launches until they are desperate and lelong lelong....... rather than adding fuel to developers' greed and appetite for higher and higher launch psf.
Those who cannot afford the downpayment for resale should delay buying until they save up the downpayment amount. Better value in resales. People should wake up to this....
If everyone does the above, then buyers will have the upper hand and developers will eat grass.
BUT due to buyers' greed and impatience, developers are eating caviar (esp FEO) and buyers are paying for it (through their noses). Buyers are accepting smaller and smaller units making living conditions worse and worse for future generations. Their grandchildren and great grandchildren will be living SOHO style in tiny apartments.
:tongue3:
What about people who can't afford to wait?
What about people who can't afford to wait?
If buying from developer, they need to wait anyway....building under construction. What is the expected TOP for Watertown?
If buying from developer, they need to wait anyway....building under construction. What is the expected TOP for Watertown?
end of 2017 i think?
What about people who can't afford to wait?If can't wait, buy resale.. :cheers6:
devilplate
05-03-12, 08:59
end of 2017 i think?
so wat r the chances of having a price correction within this 4-5yrs? hehehe
px up since mid 09....oredi 2.5yrs liao......
Thats why i was telling a bro in the WT thread that the capital gain he is expecting from WT after 5 years maybe getting a ready flat or soon to be completed flat will be better? Rental yield of 3% x 5 already 15%. If ur lucky to get a good MM, maybe can yield up to 5% p.a.? :beats-me-man:
Don't forget, if WT CG can be 20%, not punggol area CG will be around there too. So CG + rental yield for 5 years definitely more wu hua than just waiting for 5 years CG.
Agree with bro price.
Better bargains could be had with resales at this point in time. Somemore resale can see the unit and verify size of rooms/layout etc. And straightaway can get rent coming in.
If cannot afford resale with 60% loan financing means it's the 3rd pty already and if that is the case, the risks in terms of cash flow and ability to service the loan are higher...more reason to be cautious and not jump into new launch which is at historical hi price.
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