View Full Version : Landed vs Condo
condo - swimming pool & gym..
Landed - no swimming pool and i read that it is hot living in one if you do not turn on air-con for the whole day..
care to share your view?
Landed - you own the land but condo is a strata title. Landed - you can redesign and rebuild your house but not a condo. Landed - you do not pay maintenance fee like condo. Landed - There is limited landed properties compared to condos.
condo - swimming pool & gym..
Landed - no swimming pool and i read that it is hot living in one if you do not turn on air-con for the whole day..
care to share your view?
[QUOTE=roly8]condo - swimming pool & gym..
Landed - no swimming pool and i read that it is hot living in one if you do not turn on air-con for the whole day..
Condo Pay maintenance fee, enjoy facilities, security etc
Landed Repair maintenance at your own , fight over parking usually the root of conflict, BBQ can setup any time, foot can step on soil... Hot day depend on facing and configuration , blockage etc...
End if the day look at annual valuation , tax high also . If is rental ,is 10% .. Occupant is lesser
Old landed when neighbour tear down may result in cracks on your walls.
Just claim against your neighbours if it happens. Condo has similar problem when upstairs renovate their houses, especially floor tiles.
Old landed when neighbour tear down may result in cracks on your walls.
Can ah? But what water seepages that surface after 1-2 years?
Annual value for condo tend to be higher than landed.
[quote=roly8]condo - swimming pool & gym..
Landed - no swimming pool and i read that it is hot living in one if you do not turn on air-con for the whole day..
Condo Pay maintenance fee, enjoy facilities, security etc
Landed Repair maintenance at your own , fight over parking usually the root of conflict, BBQ can setup any time, foot can step on soil... Hot day depend on facing and configuration , blockage etc...
End if the day look at annual valuation , tax high also . If is rental ,is 10% .. Occupant is lesser
Annual value for condo tend to be higher than landed.
REALLY?!! :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: you pay more tax having condo then?
landed's rental seem much higher than condo...thus shouldn't be landed's AV should be higher than condo instead?
Not wrong! NAV is higher for condo than landed.
REALLY?!! :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: you pay more tax having condo then?
landed's rental seem much higher than condo...thus shouldn't be landed's AV should be higher than condo instead?
Old landed when neighbour tear down may result in cracks on your walls.
Such scale of renovation usually insured... even if not, owner doing renovation is still liable and can be claimed against accordingly. Liability period is same as the constucted neighbour.. ie. 1 year after completion. Beyond 1 year would be wear and tear.
Just monitor your unit during the rebuilding and highlight to the builder if anything is amiss. If they don't honour the rectification they can be reported to BCA.
Don't forget this is applicable to all land owners meaning that you may be the one tearing down your house to rebuild.
Just look for your neighbour as long as they are still around.
Can ah? But what water seepages that surface after 1-2 years?
relaxcatdog
19-02-12, 17:03
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
I think landed's rental (and therfore NAV) is generally lower than condo.
btw, this is just my own experience, my NAV for the landed that I am staying in has never been higher than the NAVs of the condos that I have been renting out.
However, it is possible that my landed is not in as prime an area as my condos and thus the rentals are lower. So maybe the comparison is not fair.
A better comparison would be a landed NAV in say Bukit Timah and the a condo right beside it. Maybe some other forummers in such a situation can comment better.
REALLY?!! :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: you pay more tax having condo then?
landed's rental seem much higher than condo...thus shouldn't be landed's AV should be higher than condo instead?
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
In general that happens to be true. However, the space you are dealing with is also larger... meaning more areas to illuminate, wash or cool (if aircon is used).
However, if you count usage per square feet, I would think the utilities charge rate is about the same or even lower. For example, I used to pay $250+ while staying in a 1400+ sqft condo but now in a landed space of nearly 3000sqft I just pay barely over $350+. I have doubled my area but have not doubled the utiliies bill.
One of the things that I did away with was a koi pond that incurred more expense than pleasure or aesthetic that I can derive from. I think if I had retained it, it would burn a big hole in my utilities bill.
Not wrong! NAV is higher for condo than landed.
yup. I think NAV is lower for landed too.
I also don't know why. Maybe not many units rented out so the rental data is outdated?
My current place has a very low NAV.
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
for me it is roughly the same... I think it all depends on your lifestyle.
There is only 3 of us so we usually spent most of our time in the ground floor family room which is small as easy to aircon.
Because landed rental $PSF very poor. Assume same size property, landed has much lower rental hence lower NAV.
REALLY?!! :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: you pay more tax having condo then?
landed's rental seem much higher than condo...thus shouldn't be landed's AV should be higher than condo instead?
Assuming they are side by side, the landed rental $PSF pm can be as much as 50% lower! This could be because nowsdays family size are small and doesn't require as big space, and hence beyond a certain size there is no extra value you can expect tenants to pay? Obviously too small also cannot lah! :scared-2:
I think landed's rental (and therfore NAV) is generally lower than condo.
btw, this is just my own experience, my NAV for the landed that I am staying in has never been higher than the NAVs of the condos that I have been renting out.
However, it is possible that my landed is not in as prime an area as my condos and thus the rentals are lower. So maybe the comparison is not fair.
A better comparison would be a landed NAV in say Bukit Timah and the a condo right beside it. Maybe some other forummers in such a situation can comment better.
Makes sense I guess.... something like law of diminishing returns? ....haha
Assuming they are side by side, the landed rental $PSF pm can be as much as 50% lower! This could be because nowsdays family size are small and doesn't require as big space, and hence beyond a certain size there is no extra value you can expect tenants to pay? Obviously too small also cannot lah! :scared-2:
Just claim against your neighbours if it happens. Condo has similar problem when upstairs renovate their houses, especially floor tiles.
Request for a join inspection , take photo on existing condition. That protect ...
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
landed and condo for my family of four same...$200plus in my previous condo now also $200plus Per mth in landed...i was also worried when i move in but seems like so far so good...:)
Because landed rental $PSF very poor. Assume same size property, landed has much lower rental hence lower NAV.
yup rental very LOW i pay same price for 4k sq feet landed as i would for 1.5k sq feet condo...wonder why :)
I always like to own a landed. But wife worried about rats, roaches, mozzies... anyway, price is always an issue.
condo - swimming pool & gym..
Landed - no swimming pool and i read that it is hot living in one if you do not turn on air-con for the whole day..
care to share your view?
Have lived in landed for 18 years. We don't use air-con. However our house is not close to neighbours. In fact we only have neighbour on one side as the house is the last one on that road.
I always like to own a landed. But wife worried about rats, roaches, mozzies... anyway, price is always an issue.
Mozzies depends on the area you live in, some areas are more prone than others. in an affected areas, even high rise housing is affected.
As for the rest of the pests, that's where the money you would have otherwise saved on condo maintenance go to. Pest control companies can be engad to manage it. In Singapore it is seldom a problem.
Hah? As far as I know, pests are always a problem and you just can't seem to get rid of them in landed! You can eradicate termites? You can eradicate rats? You can eradicate mosquitoes? The answer is obvious: NO. They keep coming..... Whatever pest control is useless! :doh:
Mozzies depends on the area you live in, some areas are more prone than others. in an affected areas, even high rise housing is affected.
As for the rest of the pests, that's where the money you would have otherwise saved on condo maintenance go to. Pest control companies can be engad to manage it. In Singapore it is seldom a problem.
Becos got long driveway plus garden and of course larger room and toilets. That is why minimum size of investment is two bedders. MM units are really small. Can be equivalent to the living room of landed property. That could be the size of my
Because landed rental $PSF very poor. Assume same size property, landed has much lower rental hence lower NAV.
Then I must be very lucky I don't have any of these problems.
Hah? As far as I know, pests are always a problem and you just can't seem to get rid of them in landed! You can eradicate termites? You can eradicate rats? You can eradicate mosquitoes? The answer is obvious: NO. They keep coming..... Whatever pest control is useless! :doh:
Is the NAV for landed calculated based on land size or the built-up. That could be a reason for difference between landed and condo. I guess NAV for landed built up to 3 storey and with basement should be higher than condo in same area. Just my wild guess :) .
I agree with teddybear. You can do pest control in your house but not your whole neighbourhood. Pests come and go (just like uninvited visitors :D ), they usually dont stay with you.
Then I must be very lucky I don't have any of these problems.
Then I must be very lucky my neighbourhood doesn't have these problems..... :D
I agree with teddybear. You can do pest control in your house but not your whole neighbourhood. Pests come and go (just like uninvited visitors :D ), they usually dont stay with you.
Yes Bro. you really are very lucky. Last time during my landed house hunt, quite a few houses very well maintained but neighbours houses run-down and no walls to separate the houses, just wire fences.
Then I must be very lucky my neighbourhood doesn't have these problems..... :D
Yes Bro. you really are very lucky. Last time during my landed house hunt, quite a few houses very well maintained but neighbours houses run-down and no walls to separate the houses, just wire fences.
that is why must choose a good estate what.
If you choose all those super old one storey estates, of course got some nice rebuilt but neighbour like dirt kind.
My estate was launched in the 1996 peak :) so almost all the old timers paid a pretty high price for their houses. Most of the houses are pretty well maintained.
It is built up to 3 storeys with small land area (for that time) so there is zero rebuilts.
Annual value for condo tend to be higher than landed.
[quote=zzz1]
for landed, the cal is based on , i think about 5 % of the proximate market value. How they derived proximate market value, etc is done by the valuer assessor time to time for landed property.
As for condos, is based on the market rent if it is rented out. The annual value list can be purchased. if the unit is rented out, the annual value will be high.
yup. I think NAV is lower for landed too.
I also don't know why. Maybe not many units rented out so the rental data is outdated?
My current place has a very low NAV.
self stay and rented out property calculation are diff....self stay is much much cheaper...Cos rental out, gov take is as profit/business revenue generation . the tax principle will be quite different.
self stay and rented out property calculation are diff....self stay is much much cheaper...Cos rental out, gov take is as profit/business revenue generation . the tax principle will be quite different.
Annual Value is the same I think. The only difference I think is the percentage which they tax you.
Yah... that is the owner occupation rebate, it has no bearing on the annual value
Annual Value is the same I think. The only difference I think is the percentage which they tax you.
It is a flawed comparison. The value of the property very much depends on location too, not just the type. If you are comparing a landed property and a condo along the same road, and same price and roughly the same price, then of course landed is better, even if condo offers facilities. If you compare a condo in East Coast with a view of the sea, costing $2mil, versus a terrace house in Yio Chu Kang cost $2mil, the one at East Coast may have more to appreciate than the Yio Chu Kang house (not to mention the proximity to downtown and airport).
I think TS was looking for comparisons btw Condo and Landed in general.
In fact your example of East Coast condo vs Yio Chu Kang landed precisely shows that there are valid things to compare.
It is a flawed comparison. The value of the property very much depends on location too, not just the type. If you are comparing a landed property and a condo along the same road, and same price and roughly the same price, then of course landed is better, even if condo offers facilities. If you compare a condo in East Coast with a view of the sea, costing $2mil, versus a terrace house in Yio Chu Kang cost $2mil, the one at East Coast may have more to appreciate than the Yio Chu Kang house (not to mention the proximity to downtown and airport).
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
I am clocking only $140 per month on utilities in a landed. :D This is despite of the fact that I have 5 bathrooms, so 5 sanitary fittings charges.
My parents-in-law staying in HDB is clocking $200 utilities per month as they always leave the light on everywhere.
I am clocking only $140 per month on utilities in a landed. :D This is despite of the fact that I have 5 bathrooms, so 5 sanitary fittings charges.
My parents-in-law staying in HDB is clocking $200 utilities per month as they always leave the light on everywhere.
your house only 2 adult persons + no air-con is it?:o
your house only 2 adult persons + no air-con is it?:o
Maybe shower in nearby public toilet, no cooking etc
your house only 2 adult persons + no air-con is it?:o
Everyday on aircon somemore! :D
Everyday on aircon somemore! :D
come back home to use water to bath + air-con only..
:tongue3:
come back home to use water to bath + air-con only..
:tongue3:
Isn't that what utilities are all about? U use your home utilities to run heavy motors? :scared-4:
That is too high!
I heard a friend's relative spend only $60 per month on utilities for a household of 5 in condo!
I asked how? :rolleyes:
He said other than cooking, they all bath in common toilets in the condo, and when too hot go to condo gym and function room to blow air-con! :scared-1:
I am clocking only $140 per month on utilities in a landed. :D This is despite of the fact that I have 5 bathrooms, so 5 sanitary fittings charges.
My parents-in-law staying in HDB is clocking $200 utilities per month as they always leave the light on everywhere.
Originally Posted by relaxcatdog
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
That is too high!
I heard a friend's relative spend only $60 per month on utilities for a household of 5 in condo!
I asked how? :rolleyes:
He said other than cooking, they all bath in common toilets in the condo, and when too hot go to condo gym and function room to blow air-con! :scared-1:
1. All use swimming pool common toilet for shower & wash cloth?
2. Go gym or anywhere down stair find power point to use laptop?
3. Go gym blow air-con till shiok shiok.. no use air-con at home?
4. If too hot during sleep, all go sleep balcony?
5. Only share 1 TV and TV only switch-on from 9:00-9:30pm (30mins for ppl to catch the news only)?
6. 1 week only allow to cook once.. but instant noodle only?
7. Only allow to ON "one light" for the whole house at all times.. & between 7:30-10pm?
8. All go office & school brush teeth & wash face after wake up?
9. 5 person take turn do business in toilet, but then flush once & for all? :eek: :scared-4:
We all know that electricity and water are the 2 biggest costs items - so if they save on water for bathing and doing big business, and save on electricity for warm water bathing & air-cons, already can cut big chunk of expenditures per month!
1. All use swimming pool common toilet for shower & wash cloth?
2. Go gym or anywhere down stair find power point to use laptop?
3. Go gym blow air-con till shiok shiok.. no use air-con at home?
4. If too hot during sleep, all go sleep balcony?
5. Only share 1 TV and TV only switch-on from 9:00-9:30pm (30mins for ppl to catch the news only)?
6. 1 week only allow to cook once.. but instant noodle only?
7. Only allow to ON "one light" for the whole house at all times.. & between 7:30-10pm?
8. All go office & school brush teeth & wash face after wake up?
9. 5 person take turn do business in toilet, but then flush once & for all? :eek: :scared-4:
I am clocking only $140 per month on utilities in a landed. :D This is despite of the fact that I have 5 bathrooms, so 5 sanitary fittings charges.
My parents-in-law staying in HDB is clocking $200 utilities per month as they always leave the light on everywhere.
Are you Water Wally working in PUB?
That is too high!
I heard a friend's relative spend only $60 per month on utilities for a household of 5 in condo!
I asked how? :rolleyes:
He said other than cooking, they all bath in common toilets in the condo, and when too hot go to condo gym and function room to blow air-con! :scared-1:
also :
- cook at bbq pit using charcoal -> gas cost = 0
- make full use of function room: nap, reading, watch tv, etc > electricity =0
- collect water from car wash point -> water cost = 0
actually $0 utility is possible.
only cost is refuse disposal. don't think can siam :D
Not possible lah, 3 toilets each $3 before GST already almost $10 gone!
Then still Need water for drinking, electricity for fridge, a bit of electricity for 1 light on ... Can't run... :p
also :
- cook at bbq pit using charcoal -> gas cost = 0
- make full use of function room: nap, reading, watch tv, etc > electricity =0
- collect water from car wash point -> water cost = 0
actually $0 utility is possible.
only cost is refuse disposal. don't think can siam :D
Not possible lah, 3 toilets each $3 before GST already almost $10 gone!
Then still Need water for drinking, electricity for fridge, a bit of electricity for 1 light on ... Can't run... :p
Need water for drinking - collect from water cooler
electricity for fridge - use the fridge at dining pavilion, or no need fidge
electricity for 1 light - use rechargable light lantern
:D
Landed property can collect rain water on rainy days. Does not need to turn on light if house has short driveway and rely on street light. Large garden with trees or plants will also help to reduce indoor temperature.:D
Living landed is for people who are more "Green"... E.g.:
1) extra food can't finish don't throw into rubbish chute, put outside the gate of landed will disappear the next day - eaten by rats, stray cats & dogs, and even monkeys!
2) Trees and plants attract mosquitoes and other insects, at night can have more exercise hitting mosquitoes and night flies (not sure that is the right name to call?) attracted to lights (especially can have hundreds and even thousands before/after raining), during the day can have more exercise hitting house flies....
3) A lot of exercise walking up and down the stairs, even 80 years old also no problem because used to climbing up and down the stairs, no sweat! :p
4) ??? :cheers1:
Landed property can collect rain water on rainy days. Does not need to turn on light if house has short driveway and rely on street light. Large garden with trees or plants will also help to reduce indoor temperature.:D
I used to stay in a big landed before. So my mum had the following
veg farm, keep chicken and ducks, lot of fruit trees
So we had fresh and free supply of meat, veg and fruits all the time...
my childhood.......
Isn't that what utilities are all about? U use your home utilities to run heavy motors? :scared-4:
$140 per month for landed, that is not even enough for a typical 3 bedder apartment.
perhaps MM landed property?
Staying in landed is very nice, spacious living space with your own private driveway and parking space. There is a nearby park and playground for the kids to play. For amenties like swimming pool, tennis courts and golf course, just need to join the nearby country club which provides better amenties than condos.
I used to stay in a big landed before. So my mum had the following
veg farm, keep chicken and ducks, lot of fruit trees
So we had fresh and free supply of meat, veg and fruits all the time...
my childhood.......
i live in kampong before govt force us to move to HDB.. i still cherish this memorable experience!
i still remember my livable kampong landarea is the size of the stadium..
very big la..
got a well nearby... can grow anything on those soil...
what i dislike is the mosquito at night... + the insect noise quak quak...
As a kid, cycling my BMX through the rocky dirt roads of the kampongs and farms in Seletar was very fun, and frequently I would be chased by stray dogs as I pedaled my BMX at top speed to get away. Nice childhood memories that my kids will never experience.
As a kid, cycling my BMX through the rocky dirt roads of the kampongs and farms in Seletar was very fun, and frequently I would be chased by stray dogs as I pedaled my BMX at top speed to get away. Nice childhood memories that my kids will never experience.
yea.. i got BMX on those rocky dirt roads and kena chase by stray dogs too..
:D:D:D
$140 per month for landed, that is not even enough for a typical 3 bedder apartment.
perhaps MM landed property?
Even a MM landed with a built in of more than 3000 sqft is 3 times bigger than a typical 3 bedroom apartment. :cool:
Moral of the story is: Utilities charges are not so much correlated to the types of properties but more on the individuals usage. :2cents:
Even a MM landed with a built in of more than 3000 sqft is 3 times bigger than a typical 3 bedroom apartment. :cool:
Moral of the story is: Utilities charges are not so much correlated to the types of properties but more on the individuals usage. :2cents:
3000sqft might sound like big, but once you factor in all the stairs in a 3 floor terrace house etc you might just end up with only 2500sqft of usable space.
I am not sure how you do it, but I think to achieve that, you will need to be extremely thrifty about what you use and wash everyday. perhaps wash you bedsheet once every 3 months. then again, doesn't it defeat the purpose of living in landed property?
Didn't he said that he goes to his rented out condo to use the facilities? May be he goes there to bath, wash clothes, blow air-con in gym and function room, and cook at BBQ pit? :o
3000sqft might sound like big, but once you factor in all the stairs in a 3 floor terrace house etc you might just end up with only 2500sqft of usable space.
I am not sure how you do it, but I think to achieve that, you will need to be extremely thrifty about what you use and wash everyday. perhaps wash you bedsheet once every 3 months. then again, doesn't it defeat the purpose of living in landed property?
yea.. i got BMX on those rocky dirt roads and kena chase by stray dogs too..
:D:D:D
You guys better. I only had my two "kahs" to run very fast.
One trick I learned from adults. Bend down pretend to pick up stone to throw them. They will retreat, even if there is no stone. Why? I also don't know.
Fun days, I think our zinc-roofed and land then is the size of a residential plot being sold for 100million now. Compensation was in the tune of 100K then. 1000X difference.
You guys better. I only had my two "kahs" to run very fast.
One trick I learned from adults. Bend down pretend to pick up stone to throw them. They will retreat, even if there is no stone. Why? I also don't know.
Fun days, I think our zinc-roofed and land then is the size of a residential plot being sold for 100million now. Compensation was in the tune of 100K then. 1000X difference.
Govt was very smart to acquire lots of land from villagers at dirt cheap prices in 1970s and 1980s. Then use the land revenue now for dunno what purpose.
Even a MM landed with a built in of more than 3000 sqft is 3 times bigger than a typical 3 bedroom apartment. :cool:
Moral of the story is: Utilities charges are not so much correlated to the types of properties but more on the individuals usage. :2cents:3000 sqft is most certainly not MM. My estimation is more than 50% of current inter terraces in Singapore are less than 3000 sqft leh! All considered MM meh?
One trick I learned from adults. Bend down pretend to pick up stone to throw them. They will retreat, even if there is no stone. Why? I also don't know.
When u bend down, the dogs think u want mate them that's why they retreat.
:cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy:
:D
When u bend down, the dogs think u want mate them that's why they retreat.
:cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy:
:D
lol!!! :doh::doh:
When u bend down, the dogs think u want mate them that's why they retreat.
:cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy:
:D
Do male dogs feel that as well. Erm, let's not go there...
That is too high!
I heard a friend's relative spend only $60 per month on utilities for a household of 5 in condo!
I asked how? :rolleyes:
He said other than cooking, they all bath in common toilets in the condo, and when too hot go to condo gym and function room to blow air-con! :scared-1:
Originally Posted by relaxcatdog
I heard that the utilities charges in the landed properties can be very high. Want to check whether this is true? If it is, what is the normal amount per month for a family with four members? Of course it depends very much on the usage. But I get the impression that it is very much higher than those who live in condo/apartments/flats.
Your' friend relative should stay on road side or air port...almost free..:D
To save money from water, just let ur tap leak very little water and collect with a pail. The leakage flow rate must be very slow so that it cannot be registered by the water meter. Hence, u get 1 free pail of water a day.
:rolleyes:
To save money from water, just let ur tap leak very little water and collect with a pail. The leakage flow rate must be very slow so that it cannot be registered by the water meter. Hence, u get 1 free pail of water a day.
:rolleyes:
are you sure?
When u bend down, the dogs think u want mate them that's why they retreat.
:cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy:
:D
Dog stand on 4 legs is already bend down right?? :D
To save money from water, just let ur tap leak very little water and collect with a pail. The leakage flow rate must be very slow so that it cannot be registered by the water meter. Hence, u get 1 free pail of water a day.
:rolleyes:
Last time ppl tampered with the Ele meter to cheat as well.. For those unit located inside the house type.. Now din hear of such already...
Well, at least they are not the worse (according to my friend)!
The WORST are those owners that don't even live in the condo (because they rented out) yet come to the condo to use the facilities for free, blow free air-con in the gym and function room! :doh:
Your' friend relative should stay on road side or air port...almost free..:D
Well, at least they are not the worse (according to my friend)!
The WORST are those owners that don't even live in the condo (because they rented out) yet come to the condo to use the facilities for free, blow free air-con in the gym and function room! :doh:
That why most handbook or guideline mentioned the word eg resident usage and not owner usage...
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