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http://www.straitstimes.com/Invest/Story/STIStory_784022.html
small change
Doing the sums on shoebox flat investments
At first look, these small units may offer a decent return, but finding a tenant willing to live in such a tiny space may not be so easy
Published on Apr 1, 2012
By Lee Su Shyan, Money Editor
'The tenant is quite used to it,' the property agent said airily, dismissing concerns that a shoebox apartment is going to be quite difficult for any reasonable-sized human to enjoy living in.
I was at a showflat on the fringe of Paya Lebar recently, which showcased an apartment of around 450 sq ft.
There were perhaps half a dozen others in the showflat as well and it did not seem crowded. Possibly this was because there was hardly any furniture. There were two small chairs and the kitchen sink, but no dining table, sofa, fridge, TV set or computer - surely features that a normal apartment should contain.
In the bedroom, there was no bed either, but a carpet to represent where this narrow single bed clearly was going to be.
Leading out from the bedroom was a balcony that ran along the living room as well. By the way, the washing point was on the balcony, so this means that the washing machine was going to be sited there.
Many at the showroom seemed caught up by the excitement of owning a piece of private property for less than $600,000 and, for some moments, I was as well.
A back of the envelope calculation goes like this. Assuming the price is $650,000. Assuming I already have a property loan, I will have to fork out $260,000 in cash and take out a 60 per cent loan of $390,000. Taken over say 25 years, this comes up to a $1,560 monthly repayment at an interest rate of 1.5 per cent.
Assuming rent of say, $3,500 a month, this makes for a return of around $1,940 per month after paying off the loan or $23,280 per year.
One way of looking at the return is the total rent divided by the total investment ($42,000 divided by $650,000), which makes for a yield of 6.5 per cent.
Another way is to look at the rent after deducting the loan repayment divided by the actual cash outlay. This comes to a gross yield on the investment of about 8.9 per cent ($23,280 divided by $260,000 of capital).
These returns are far more attractive than any fixed deposit currently. Throw in the promise of capital gains and it sounds like an even better deal.
All well and good, but look at the assumptions behind this handsome return: Such a return assumes that interest rates will stay low and that there will not be periods when the apartment is vacant.
All these are standard considerations when buying a property for investment but in particular, for a shoebox apartment, a very important factor is the tenant, and a tenant willing to pay $3,500 at that.
My fear is that this tenant - slight of build, who hardly ever cooks, sleeps standing up perhaps, is seldom home and when he does come home, is out on the balcony - will turn out to be a pipe dream.
After all, he is also supposed to be able to fork out $3,500 per month in rent, preferably be an upstanding professional who works in the central business district area, and most importantly, pays the rent on time. A tall order indeed.
Better still if he never complains about faulty appliances and other minor problems.
I exaggerate, I know, but this is the scenario that is often portrayed by many of the agents.
How realistic is that scenario?
Looking at the negatives first, there is a tremendous amount of supply coming up in Geylang, for example, in the next few years - close to 1,900 units all told and fairly small units too.
This means that one is looking at potential tenants who are single or at best couples. Even a small family or friends hoping to share an apartment will find it near impossible to squeeze into the unit I viewed.
Another factor is that the rental market needs to be supported by the Housing Board (HDB) rental market. If the HDB rents are still buoyant, at say $2,000 or $2,500 for a flat, then perhaps there may be a group of people willing to pay over and above this amount to live in a private property with facilities.
On the macro front, Geylang is an area undergoing gentrification. It is a stone's throw from the upcoming Paya Lebar commercial hub. It has good transport links and it is just a few bus stops away, along Nicoll Highway, from Suntec City.
Dakota MRT station is perhaps a 10-minute walk away. And good food at all hours of the day is easily available. In a few years, the Sports Hub will also be up.
As more business activities fan out from the city centre to the suburbs, there will be a need for housing, making a compelling case for investing in this characterful area.
Still, I cannot help but feel that the proof is in the pudding to see if a shoebox apartment is indeed liveable. The bulk of them have yet to be completed so we will have to wait and see.
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If the going gets tough, rental for these shoebox apartments will simply fall and demand will still be there. Investors will not likely to get the kind of returns they have expected. Given the small loan size, investors will survive though they may not be in the money.
If the going gets tough, rental for these shoebox apartments will simply fall and demand will still be there. Investors will not likely to get the kind of returns they have expected. Given the small loan size, investors will survive though they may not be in the money.
Size of loan is relative to household income.
any MM owners can share whether $3.5k/mth rental is realistic? Personally i heavily doubt so.
If the going gets tough, rental for these shoebox apartments will simply fall and demand will still be there. Investors will not likely to get the kind of returns they have expected. Given the small loan size, investors will survive though they may not be in the money.
Curious to know why you think demand will still be there?
I was talking to an expat friend 1 yr+ ago as we were going to his St Thomas apartment. We ran into the property agents pushing the MM's where the old walkup apts had been.
400 sq ft they promised could bring in 5k rent. My friend started to look interested until I asked him could he live in 400 sq ft..... Well if you can't, what makes you think others can - plus the 3 bedroom apartment which is 3 times bigger you are renting now costs only around 3k. Sure it's older but who thinks of that when they are sat at home watching TV.
I also think like the writer of this article. Who is this fantastically stupid tenant who is smart enough to earn the big bucks to drop 5k on rental but simultaneously dumb enough not to do any market research on the property market before rental.
I think the low interest rates are going to provide many casualties in the future due to present "affordability" and unrealistic yields (100% occupancy, no sinking fund or management fund included in calculation, no agent fees included in calc, no property tax in calc, no interest charge in calc, etc....) pushed by unscrupulous agents.
Curious to know why you think demand will still be there?
I was talking to an expat friend 1 yr+ ago as we were going to his St Thomas apartment. We ran into the property agents pushing the MM's where the old walkup apts had been.
400 sq ft they promised could bring in 5k rent. My friend started to look interested until I asked him could he live in 400 sq ft..... Well if you can't, what makes you think others can - plus the 3 bedroom apartment which is 3 times bigger you are renting now costs only around 3k. Sure it's older but who thinks of that when they are sat at home watching TV.
I also think like the writer of this article. Who is this fantastically stupid tenant who is smart enough to earn the big bucks to drop 5k on rental but simultaneously dumb enough not to do any market research on the property market before rental.
I think the low interest rates are going to provide many casualties in the future due to present "affordability" and unrealistic yields (100% occupancy, no sinking fund or management fund included in calculation, no agent fees included in calc, no property tax in calc, no interest charge in calc, etc....) pushed by unscrupulous agents.
What if the demand is so bad that people are willing to rent the MM units for a just $800? Sure demand will come back. It is a matter of price. As long as the price is attractive enough, people will go for it and perhaps, for a short one year lease to try out.
What if the demand is so bad that people are willing to rent the MM units for a just $800? Sure demand will come back. It is a matter of price. As long as the price is attractive enough, people will go for it and perhaps, for a short one year lease to try out.
If the economy is bad, people would rather rent 4 room HDB for $2k per month and share it among 3 or 4 friends. cheaper and bigger.
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 10:04
All TCSS ... obviously depends on location mah :p
The Trumps 1br (700sqft) rental is about there ..
If the economy is bad, people would rather rent 4 room HDB for $2k per month and share it among 3 or 4 friends. cheaper and bigger.
a 3i hdb with utility room, 3 rooms alrdy 2k..
perhaps then hdb at 1.5k/4 pax= $375/= :D chip chip
All TCSS ... obviously depends on location mah :p
The Trumps 1br (700sqft) rental is about there ..
if demand is bad or economy is bad as mentioned by forumers..
doubt pple care much abt location by then.. rather concern abt their job and expenses to tide over
If the economy is bad, people would rather rent 4 room HDB for $2k per month and share it among 3 or 4 friends. cheaper and bigger.
As long as the rental market does not collapse, there is always a demand for the right price. There will always have people willing to pay a little more for privacy. If the competition get tougher, rental for MM may go to the point to compete with renting a single room of HDB flat. Market forces will dictate the fate of the rental rate for MM units.
a 3i hdb with utility room, 3 rooms alrdy 2k..
perhaps then hdb at 1.5k/4 pax= $375/= :D chip chip
MM owners should remember and MM property is a luxury item not a necessity.
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 10:15
if demand is bad or economy is bad as mentioned by forumers..
doubt pple care much abt location by then.. rather concern abt their job and expenses to tide over
I am surprised by your remark, property is all about location ... you are telling me MM @ Tanjong Pagar about 450sqft & 400sqft 8@W vs 450sqft Ripple Bay will have exactly the same rental when economy is bad??
That's why teddy keeps saying buying 1.3kpsf SOHO in Punggol is mad
As long as the rental market does not collapse, there is always a demand for the right price. There will always have people willing to pay a little more for privacy. If the competition get tougher, rental for MM may go to the point to compete with renting a single room of HDB flat. Market forces will dictate the fate of the rental rate for MM units.
Assuming owner has a loan of $600K @ 1.5% for 30 years, monthly mortgage will be $2K + maintenance of $200 = $2.2K.
How low can the owner go?
All TCSS ... obviously depends on location mah :p
The Trumps 1br (700sqft) rental is about there ..
yea lor...
:)
MM owners should remember and MM property is a luxury item not a necessity.
It applies across the board.
Some tenants will take the opportunity to upgrade to condos/landed or to better locations during a economic crisis. Whereas, some will be forced to downgrade to cheaper and poorer locations or even to HDBs when times are bad.
So, be prepared to set aside a comfortable buffer to tide over bad times.
I am surprised by your remark, property is all about location ... you are telling me MM @ Tanjong Pagar about 450sqft & 400sqft 8@W vs 450sqft Ripple Bay will have exactly the same rental when economy is bad??
That's why teddy keeps saying buying 1.3kpsf SOHO in Punggol is mad
not refering down to same rental, but down in terms of same % +-...
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 10:34
Assuming owner has a loan of $600K @ 1.5% for 30 years, monthly mortgage will be $2K + maintenance of $200 = $2.2K.
How low can the owner go?
self stay ? :p
or partition the MB and living hall / HS to house 8 construction workers with 4 double deckers :scared-1:
SOHO can put triple deckers ;)
As long as the rental market does not collapse, there is always a demand for the right price. There will always have people willing to pay a little more for privacy. If the competition get tougher, rental for MM may go to the point to compete with renting a single room of HDB flat. Market forces will dictate the fate of the rental rate for MM units.
A fairer comparison would be comparing MM with condo master room.
Market forces will determine the rental rate across the board.
Bigger sized condos are not supported by the rental yield currently. Things will worsen when economy turns sour. Be careful
Assuming owner has a loan of $600K @ 1.5% for 30 years, monthly mortgage will be $2K + maintenance of $200 = $2.2K.
How low can the owner go?
If investor has the means to hold on to the property, he would settle for the low rent instead of leaving the apartment empty. If he is not able to hold, he will sell it probably at a lost. This is when fire sale starts.
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 10:47
Those who buy MM has the means to pay 40% upfront... what do u think of their holding power? :cool:
I had been to a MM showflat. The unit proposed to me was priced at 500k thereabout.
Investors would be taking a maximum 60% loan of 300k. To be on a safer side, a 300k loan with 3% interest rate and a 25years tenure will have a monthly installment of $1423.
A rough estimation will be $2k gross rental in order to maintain a positive cash flow.
thomastansb
09-04-12, 10:55
Around 500 sq ft still ok. Those 300+ are bullshit. Anything below 400 is like shit.
Buyers of MMs should study the floor plan carefully and make sure that the layout is reasonable with minimum balcony and air-con ledge.
For OCR MMs, to be on the safe side, rental of around 2000 pm would be reasonable expectation not even 3000 pm as this would be able to rent a 3 bedder in OCR in bad times.
Those who buy MM has the means to pay 40% upfront... what do u think of their holding power? :cool:
It will be enlightening to know the profile of investors.
If significant investors are HDB owners with limited funds and could only afford MM to "fulfill" property investment dreams, then we could be riding into a nightmarish situation soon...
I even forsee URA allowing adjacent MMs to be converted into single bigger unit to reverse inefficient land use....
Regards
HDB can enter the rental market and bring rental yield down down down if they oversupply again.... all mati... :scared-4:
It will be interesting to watch this sector in a severe down turn. There could still be takers as you may potentially have ? 4 pax in a well laid out MM with 2 sets of bunk beds, one in the bedroom and one in the living room. If an HDB storeroom can be rented out as living quarters, the MM can surely be "subdivided" and rented out to be shared in a dorm-style.
Buyers of MMs should study the floor plan carefully and make sure that the layout is reasonable with minimum balcony and air-con ledge.
For OCR MMs, to be on the safe side, rental of around 2000 pm would be reasonable expectation not even 3000 pm as this would be able to rent a 3 bedder in OCR in bad times.
A 3 bedroom condo unit in the suburbs can go as low as 2k during 2003-2005. Similarly, it went as low as 2.5-3k for D9,10,11
Those who buy MM has the means to pay 40% upfront... what do u think of their holding power? :cool:
You are right, most have strong holding power.
Not easy to negotiate for a good MM deal in resale unless interest rates shoot up.
Like what many have said, there will always have a market for MMs in CCR in good locations, with good facilities. In bad times, the rentals will be lower but most will survive. In the outskirts, it is harder to predict.
It will be interesting to watch this sector in a severe down turn. There could still be takers as you may potentially have ? 4 pax in a well laid out MM with 2 sets of bunk beds, one in the bedroom and one in the living room. If an HDB storeroom can be rented out as living quarters, the MM can surely be "subdivided" and rented out to be shared in a dorm-style.
I have seen desperate landlords turning their 3/4bedroom unit into a 'dormitory' too.
Housing about 8-12 pax.
That means the MM in bad times could be 1K or less. Or even impossible to find tenants in such circumstances. haha then become our weekend retreat liao. Go to spend the weekend in Bedok Reservoir park (MM in Archipelago). :47: :cool:
So using those levels as base, after some adjustment to inflation of say 3% per year. You probably end up with a figure 25% higher. Afterall the same sack of rice I paid for has doubled...
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 11:19
Impossible to find tenants?? I don't think that will ever happen under PAP pro-immigrants policies .... how about China students ... each $300 .. pack 6 of them also 1.8k liao mah
1. Dumb reporter to listen to agent crap about 3.5k rental for Geylang MM. 450sf at PLB fringe at most 2.3-2.5k max max.
2. http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing?listing_type=rent&search_type=hdb&property_type=H&school=&mrt=&address=&property_id=&distance=1.0&latitude=&longitude=&interest=&hdb_type_group=&minprice=&maxprice=&minbed=2&maxbed=2&minsize=&maxsize=&minsize_land=&maxsize_land=&freetext=&minpsf=&maxpsf=&listing_posted=&mintop=&maxtop=&sort=&order=&min_latitude=&max_latitude=&min_longitude=&max_longitude=&submit=
Tell me when you can find below $2k HDB 3RM rental. MM regardless of size and location will always be priced 10-20% higher due to different class. MM rental pricing yardstick is HDB 3RM flat. Ask anybody in the business.
Jonathan0503
09-04-12, 13:24
Assuming owner has a loan of $600K @ 1.5% for 30 years, monthly mortgage will be $2K + maintenance of $200 = $2.2K.
How low can the owner go?
But still betting than leaving it untenanted right?
Jonathan0503
09-04-12, 13:29
You are right, most have strong holding power.
Not easy to negotiate for a good MM deal in resale unless interest rates shoot up.
Like what many have said, there will always have a market for MMs in CCR in good locations, with good facilities. In bad times, the rentals will be lower but most will survive. In the outskirts, it is harder to predict.
Yes, 100% agree. MM is about location
1. Dumb reporter to listen to agent crap about 3.5k rental for Geylang MM. 450sf at PLB fringe at most 2.3-2.5k max max.
2. http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing?listing_type=rent&search_type=hdb&property_type=H&school=&mrt=&address=&property_id=&distance=1.0&latitude=&longitude=&interest=&hdb_type_group=&minprice=&maxprice=&minbed=2&maxbed=2&minsize=&maxsize=&minsize_land=&maxsize_land=&freetext=&minpsf=&maxpsf=&listing_posted=&mintop=&maxtop=&sort=&order=&min_latitude=&max_latitude=&min_longitude=&max_longitude=&submit=
Tell me when you can find below $2k HDB 3RM rental. MM regardless of size and location will always be priced 10-20% higher due to different class. MM rental pricing yardstick is HDB 3RM flat. Ask anybody in the business.
Just to share, apparently 3rm HDB at outskirts not even close to MRT are now going at $2k rental. And they are snapped up quickly. Hard to believe, but true.
:beats-me-man:
Just to share, apparently 3rm HDB at outskirts not even close to MRT are now going at $2k rental. And they are snapped up quickly. Hard to believe, but true.
:beats-me-man:
ya lor so perhaps mm like parc rosewood can fetch 2k too?
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 14:07
u guys are comparing apple to orange:
1. Most 3r HDB is very old and rundown ... no privacy at all
2. 3r HDB rental near MRT is very hot because for certain group of nationalities ... that's all they can afford
3. 1br or MM with decent condo facilities are not targeting the same group of people ... they are more for PMETs couples or temporary corporate rentals or for those pros who is coming to Singapore to work for 1y alone b4 fetching the whole family over (within that 1y, family members may visit)
4. 1br/MM around 500sqft also for self-stay by rich singles or family with only 1 primary school kid wishing to stay near primary school of their choice
However, for all the above purpose, there are untested areas like Punggol and Pasir Ris ... the risk is there
and dun compare with Geylang .. how can any decent PMETs stay there ;)
Much have been in the news over the last weeks over the explosion of showboxes as a form of "homes" in Singapore real estate landscape. While the discussion is healthy, some major points have been missed out.
First of all, I qualify myself by saying that I am not a developer. I am a single, 40+something, and just looking for a small "home" to call my own.
(1)THE DREAM
How many of us do not dream that we are happily married, with a loving husband/wife, 3.2 children AND owning a large 4-bedroom house (with large lawn to go with it, of course.....for to the kids to run around)? Of course we do. But sometimes that dream is not a reality for everyone -- many of us are single (by choice or otherwise), many of us are married but have no children, many of us could not afford to buy the large condo we have dreamt of. So.....is that something wrong with that?
The offering of showboxes fills that need and the euphoria of buying/selling them of late reflects a market segment that these shoeboxes fulfill.
(2)HONG KONGERS
Then there is the discussion of Hong Kongers and their lifestyles of living in shoeboxes. Do any of you believe that Hong Kongers choose living in these shoeboxes over a villa given a choice? They have NO choice, real estate has become way too expensive and owning a showbox with a roof over their heads is better than not having one at all.
Like Hong Kong, land is scarce in Singapore. Singapore will move in this direction whether we like it or not. Do you think that Singapore will ever return to the days when homes will go for just $350psf? If you do, you have just landed from Mars?
(3)IN DEFENSE OF SHOEBOXES
Discussion on this typology has also centered on their investment value and rental returns. I have many friends who have bought shoeboxes and I am tempted to buy one myself. Are we aware that there are many people who are buying them to live in as well? AND it is a lifestyle choice. I can afford a 4 bedroom condo but I am choosing a showbox. Being single, and not willing to buy a resale HDB, I have limited time every week to take care of a 4 bedroom condo when I only need one room and a small decent living room. I am living just fine, thank you.
There have many calls to URA to control such shoeboxes being offered by developers. Why? The market will response to what the market needs. And if people are buying, what is wrong with that?
u guys are comparing apple to orange:
1. Most 3r HDB is very old and rundown ... no privacy at all
2. 3r HDB rental near MRT is very hot because for certain group of nationalities ... that's all they can afford
3. 1br or MM with decent condo facilities are not targeting the same group of people ... they are more for PMETs couples or temporary corporate rentals or for those pros who is coming to Singapore to work for 1y alone b4 fetching the whole family over (within that 1y, family members may visit)
4. 1br/MM around 500sqft also for self-stay by rich singles or family with only 1 primary school kid wishing to stay near primary school of their choice
However, for all the above purpose, there are untested areas like Punggol and Pasir Ris ... the risk is there
and dun compare with Geylang .. how can any decent PMETs stay there ;)
This is interesting.
90% of my colleagues (I would say the real foreign talent) are foreigners who could afford 3k, 4k, 5k, even 10k for monthly rental.
Regardless they are swinging singles, DINKs, or married with / without family here, hardly anyone of them like MM.
Maybe, a few would like to try short term at Icon, the Sail, Marina Bay residence or similiar.
God bless those with OCR MM. Perhaps, things might change :-p
Regards
(2)HONG KONGERS
Then there is the discussion of Hong Kongers and their lifestyles of living in shoeboxes. Do any of you believe that Hong Kongers choose living in these shoeboxes over a villa given a choice? They have NO choice, real estate has become way too expensive and owning a showbox with a roof over their heads is better than not having one at all.
Like Hong Kong, land is scarce in Singapore. Singapore will move in this direction whether we like it or not. Do you think that Singapore will ever return to the days when homes will go for just $350psf? If you do, you have just landed from Mars?
I have heard about this HK BS when I go house hunting 15 years ago and 15 years later, i am still hearing about the same thing that Singapore will be like HK.
The question is WHEN? 15 years? 50 years? or 100 years?
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 14:51
This is interesting.
90% of my colleagues (I would say the real foreign talent) are foreigners who could afford 3k, 4k, 5k, even 10k for monthly rental.
Regardless they are swinging singles, DINKs, or married with / without family here, hardly anyone of them like MM.
Maybe, a few would like to try short term at Icon, the Sail, Marina Bay residence or similiar.
God bless those with OCR MM. Perhaps, things might change :-p
Regards
your colleagues are too rich (real foreign talent).. in the past 5y, the SPRs we take in are more middle class type... max budget for monthly rental is 3-4k for 2-3br, 2.5k for 1br or MM ... just check out Melville Park ;)
Much have been in the news over the last weeks over the explosion of showboxes as a form of "homes" in Singapore real estate landscape. While the discussion is healthy, some major points have been missed out.
First of all, I qualify myself by saying that I am not a developer. I am a single, 40+something, and just looking for a small "home" to call my own.
(1)THE DREAM
How many of us do not dream that we are happily married, with a loving husband/wife, 3.2 children AND owning a large 4-bedroom house (with large lawn to go with it, of course.....for to the kids to run around)? Of course we do. But sometimes that dream is not a reality for everyone -- many of us are single (by choice or otherwise), many of us are married but have no children, many of us could not afford to buy the large condo we have dreamt of. So.....is that something wrong with that?
The offering of showboxes fills that need and the euphoria of buying/selling them of late reflects a market segment that these shoeboxes fulfill.
(2)HONG KONGERS
Then there is the discussion of Hong Kongers and their lifestyles of living in shoeboxes. Do any of you believe that Hong Kongers choose living in these shoeboxes over a villa given a choice? They have NO choice, real estate has become way too expensive and owning a showbox with a roof over their heads is better than not having one at all.
Like Hong Kong, land is scarce in Singapore. Singapore will move in this direction whether we like it or not. Do you think that Singapore will ever return to the days when homes will go for just $350psf? If you do, you have just landed from Mars?
(3)IN DEFENSE OF SHOEBOXES
Discussion on this typology has also centered on their investment value and rental returns. I have many friends who have bought shoeboxes and I am tempted to buy one myself. Are we aware that there are many people who are buying them to live in as well? AND it is a lifestyle choice. I can afford a 4 bedroom condo but I am choosing a showbox. Being single, and not willing to buy a resale HDB, I have limited time every week to take care of a 4 bedroom condo when I only need one room and a small decent living room. I am living just fine, thank you.
There have many calls to URA to control such shoeboxes being offered by developers. Why? The market will response to what the market needs. And if people are buying, what is wrong with that?
You brought up a very good point that the shoebox units are meeting the needs of a new segment of the market which was previously not addressed. If 50 percent of the buyers of shoebox units are owner occupiers, than the other 50% must be investors.
The discussion on rental yields for private properties is always relevant because real estate (especially private properties) is a form of investment be it for rental yield or capital gain. The prices of real estate very much depend on rental yields and they are highly co-related.
Singapore is not likely to go the route of Hong Kong as long as the Singapore government continue to build affordable and sizable HDB flats.
These shoebox units will fill a niche market and the market will come to an equivalent once the price-value peaked. The market appears to be peaking for shoebox units with prices dipping. Give another few quarters and the picture should be much clearer.
(3)IN DEFENSE OF SHOEBOXES
Discussion on this typology has also centered on their investment value and rental returns. I have many friends who have bought shoeboxes and I am tempted to buy one myself. Are we aware that there are many people who are buying them to live in as well? AND it is a lifestyle choice. I can afford a 4 bedroom condo but I am choosing a showbox. Being single, and not willing to buy a resale HDB, I have limited time every week to take care of a 4 bedroom condo when I only need one room and a small decent living room. I am living just fine, thank you.
There have many calls to URA to control such shoeboxes being offered by developers. Why? The market will response to what the market needs. And if people are buying, what is wrong with that?
Well said.
That's a good point in favour of MMs. For singles who may have a busy lifestyle, there is less home maintenance needed for a MM. And being single, no need to employ a maid to do the housework. Maybe just a weekly house cleaning service if you are available to be at home when the cleaner comes.
Well said.
That's a good point in favour of MMs. For singles who may have a busy lifestyle, there is less home maintenance needed for a MM. And being single, no need to employ a maid to do the housework. Maybe just a weekly house cleaning service if you are available to be at home when the cleaner comes.
Is this a generation gap thingy?????
There's only that much clubbing, exercising, makan.... I could do outside.
When I were younger, I was looking for a bachelor pad, minimal HDB 3 room.
I need a good size bedroom for making out :-p
I need another room for my hobbies
I need a good size living room for watching DVD, singing Karaoke, playing xbox / WII...
Imaging there cleaning and clearing of stuff living in an MM...
Regards
Much have been in the news over the last weeks over the explosion of showboxes as a form of "homes" in Singapore real estate landscape. While the discussion is healthy, some major points have been missed out.
First of all, I qualify myself by saying that I am not a developer. I am a single, 40+something, and just looking for a small "home" to call my own.
(1)THE DREAM
How many of us do not dream that we are happily married, with a loving husband/wife, 3.2 children AND owning a large 4-bedroom house (with large lawn to go with it, of course.....for to the kids to run around)? Of course we do. But sometimes that dream is not a reality for everyone -- many of us are single (by choice or otherwise), many of us are married but have no children, many of us could not afford to buy the large condo we have dreamt of. So.....is that something wrong with that?
The offering of showboxes fills that need and the euphoria of buying/selling them of late reflects a market segment that these shoeboxes fulfill.
(2)HONG KONGERS
Then there is the discussion of Hong Kongers and their lifestyles of living in shoeboxes. Do any of you believe that Hong Kongers choose living in these shoeboxes over a villa given a choice? They have NO choice, real estate has become way too expensive and owning a showbox with a roof over their heads is better than not having one at all.
Like Hong Kong, land is scarce in Singapore. Singapore will move in this direction whether we like it or not. Do you think that Singapore will ever return to the days when homes will go for just $350psf? If you do, you have just landed from Mars?
(3)IN DEFENSE OF SHOEBOXES
Discussion on this typology has also centered on their investment value and rental returns. I have many friends who have bought shoeboxes and I am tempted to buy one myself. Are we aware that there are many people who are buying them to live in as well? AND it is a lifestyle choice. I can afford a 4 bedroom condo but I am choosing a showbox. Being single, and not willing to buy a resale HDB, I have limited time every week to take care of a 4 bedroom condo when I only need one room and a small decent living room. I am living just fine, thank you.
There have many calls to URA to control such shoeboxes being offered by developers. Why? The market will response to what the market needs. And if people are buying, what is wrong with that?
Agreed.
People may complain about the high $psf and low sqft. When developers build bigger 1 bedders, the public complains again.
See recent launched The Lush, or soon to be launched Sky Habitat/ Katong Regency,
It's not the matter of size, given a choice, if these newly launched "larger" 1 bedders are selling at $3xx-5xxk, who will buy those 3xxsqft-4xxsqft shoeboxes?
Is this a generation gap thingy?????
There's only that much clubbing, exercising, makan.... I could do outside.
When I were younger, I was looking for a bachelor pad, minimal HDB 3 room.
I need a good size bedroom for making out :-p
I need another room for my hobbies
I need a good size living room for watching DVD, singing Karaoke, playing xbox / WII...
Imaging there cleaning and clearing of stuff living in an MM...
Regards
You forget the point about singles being rich younger. Singles are able to buy properties at the age of 20+ these days. However, being <35 years old, we are not able to purchase HDB. Besides, resale 4-5bed rooms these days can go as high as 7xx-9xxk given good location. Honestly I'd rather buy 2 MMs 1 for own stay 1 for rental income :D. Even if it means topping up my own $ during bad times of rental, ultimately someone is still paying off part of my installments. Why not? :D :cheers2:
Written by Gwyneth Yeo Monday, 02 April 2012 22:32
http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-small.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-medium.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-large.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)
Nomura’s latest estimates show that the number of new shoebox units — defined as those under 500 sq ft — could triple in 2013. More than two-thirds of these units are in the mass- to mid-market segments and more than half the purchasers have HDB addresses. Sai Min Chow, an analyst at Nomura, reckons most of the purchasers with HDB addresses are likely to be investors, as three-room HDB flats are already about 700 sq ft. “It is therefore quite hard to see how these households living in four-room flats or bigger are ‘upgrading’ to apartments that are [500 sq ft] or smaller,” says Sai.
The performance of these assets as investment properties has been mixed. As such, HDB households’ investment demand for this type of unit needs to be checked. The main concern is that most units will have difficulty securing tenants if rental demand does not pick up. An earlier-than-expected climb in interest rates could also have an impact. One way could be to set a limit on how small each unit type can be built. Besides preventing the build-up of inventory, this could also help check rising psf prices.
Written by Gwyneth Yeo Monday, 02 April 2012 22:32
http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-small.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-medium.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)http://www.theedgesingapore.com/plugins/content/alphatoolbar/images/icon-large.gif (http://www.theedgesingapore.com/property/property-buzz/36724-shoebox-units-expected-to-triple-in-2103-says-nomura.html#)
Nomura’s latest estimates show that the number of new shoebox units — defined as those under 500 sq ft — could triple in 2013. More than two-thirds of these units are in the mass- to mid-market segments and more than half the purchasers have HDB addresses. Sai Min Chow, an analyst at Nomura, reckons most of the purchasers with HDB addresses are likely to be investors, as three-room HDB flats are already about 700 sq ft. “It is therefore quite hard to see how these households living in four-room flats or bigger are ‘upgrading’ to apartments that are [500 sq ft] or smaller,” says Sai.
The performance of these assets as investment properties has been mixed. As such, HDB households’ investment demand for this type of unit needs to be checked. The main concern is that most units will have difficulty securing tenants if rental demand does not pick up. An earlier-than-expected climb in interest rates could also have an impact. One way could be to set a limit on how small each unit type can be built. Besides preventing the build-up of inventory, this could also help check rising psf prices.
That's why our ministers are seriously monitoring the situation and considering CM6.
Considering CPF behind bank in seniority, once there's firesale, the loss borne by investors will the CPF funds.
Less monies for GIC and Temasek to invest????
Or they upped minimum sum to 200k???
Regards
phantom_opera
09-04-12, 16:26
CPF OA minimum sum b4 allowing to pay for properties ??? :scared-1:
Any guess on the minimum sum?
This will ultimately be the demand killer
As mentioned by forummers before, MMs are like penny stocks.
Widest swings and greatest percentage gains/lost.
And mostly likely to get hit with margin requirements and other market controls.
When the market craps out, penny stocks are the worst hit and last to recover.
MM in town can command these rates. I rented out my Robertson edge for 3000 before selling it off at a high profit.
Outside town have some difficulty getting 3000, but 2000 possible.
2000 per month still ok.
any MM owners can share whether $3.5k/mth rental is realistic? Personally i heavily doubt so.
Is this a generation gap thingy?????
There's only that much clubbing, exercising, makan.... I could do outside.
When I were younger, I was looking for a bachelor pad, minimal HDB 3 room.
I need a good size bedroom for making out :-p
I need another room for my hobbies
I need a good size living room for watching DVD, singing Karaoke, playing xbox / WII...
Imaging there cleaning and clearing of stuff living in an MM...
Regards
Hello. You dont do all the activities concurrently right? Play wii and make out while cooking dinner? Why cant all those be the same area/room?? I dont think you can be in multiple places at the same time like the nerd in starhub tv ad....
i love MMs because Im not old enough for HDB and to buy a big unit ATM, i can own 2-3 MMs :D:cheers5:
your colleagues are too rich (real foreign talent).. in the past 5y, the SPRs we take in are more middle class type... max budget for monthly rental is 3-4k for 2-3br, 2.5k for 1br or MM ... just check out Melville Park ;)
A lot of ocr mm projects has ang mo FT these days.... Go take a look. Recently top ocr MM concentrated projects I think got Centra Suites, Palmera East, Primo Residences, The Verve, Airstream, Opal Suites....
i love MMs because Im not old enough for HDB and to buy a big unit ATM, i can own 2-3 MMs :D:cheers5:
I dont think I can stand strangers walking past my front door and windows every day... So no hdb unless corner unit.
A lot of ocr mm projects has ang mo FT these days.... Go take a look. Recently top ocr MM concentrated projects I think got Centra Suites, Palmera East, Primo Residences, The Verve, Airstream, Opal Suites....
Err bro, u sure these MMs toped?
Very centra suites, airstream, opal going to top but yet to. Especially palmera east got prob TOPing.
To detractors of MM, I repeat that a 635 sqft MM 3-bedder condo that can fit 4 person makes use of space better than a 700 sqft 1-bedder than can fit only 2 person. If you want more space you have to pay for it.
I'm not a detractor and saw the 635 today as I wanted to see the space planning. I realised that the model showed there is no space for both a full single bed and wardrobe.
Though I liked the concept, the $907000 price tag (after discount) is a massive put off cuz of the tightness of the room space compared to Hillier. Plus Seahill selling same psf, I rather pay for one that's nearer to town.
My opinion. Cheers.
To detractors of MM, I repeat that a 635 sqft MM 3-bedder condo that can fit 4 person makes use of space better than a 700 sqft 1-bedder than can fit only 2 person. If you want more space you have to pay for it.
I'm not a detractor and saw the 635 today as I wanted to see the space planning. I realised that the model showed there is no space for both a full single bed and wardrobe.
Though I liked the concept, the $907000 price tag (after discount) is a massive put off cuz of the tightness of the room space compared to Hillier. Plus Seahill selling same psf, I rather pay for one that's nearer to town.
My opinion. Cheers.
no space for a full single bed for all 3 rooms?! are we suppose to sleep like xiao long nu on a single rope?
I'm not a detractor and saw the 635 today as I wanted to see the space planning. I realised that the model showed there is no space for both a full single bed and wardrobe.
Though I liked the concept, the $907000 price tag (after discount) is a massive put off cuz of the tightness of the room space compared to Hillier. Plus Seahill selling same psf, I rather pay for one that's nearer to town.
My opinion. Cheers.
635 sqft for a 3-bedder is efficient in design, but it is not the best in design as you pointed out, the main flaw being unable to put a wardrobe in the common bedroom. The developer must have made an error there but it is the first attempt by a developer here. Future attempts will have better designs.
I visited the showflat and was quoted around $830k during VVIP preview. At $1300+ psf, it is very expensive for the ulu location.
To detractors of MM, I repeat that a 635 sqft MM 3-bedder condo that can fit 4 person makes use of space better than a 700 sqft 1-bedder than can fit only 2 person. If you want more space you have to pay for it.
Very soon you will dream about having a maids room.
635 sqft for a 3-bedder is efficient in design, but it is not the best in design as you pointed out, the main flaw being unable to put a wardrobe in the common bedroom. The developer must have made an error there but it is the first attempt by a developer here. Future attempts will have better designs.
I visited the showflat and was quoted around $830k during VVIP preview. At $1300+ psf, it is very expensive for the ulu location.
BTW, in your opinion, what constitutes design efficiency?
Regards
Ya maybe you're right. But single rope needs years of kung fu practice. So maybe start with hammock first. Hahaha
no space for a full single bed for all 3 rooms?! are we suppose to sleep like xiao long nu on a single rope?
Hahaha actually I'm renting out my so called maid's room or utility room and though it needs a sofa bed cuz room quite small, but my tenant still has her own walk in wardrobe (a deep depression into the wall in the room) plus attached toilet.
So I think it's still not too bad.
Very soon you will dream about having a maids room.
Hahaha actually I'm renting out my so called maid's room or utility room and though it needs a sofa bed cuz room quite small, but my tenant still has her own walk in wardrobe (a deep depression into the wall in the room) plus attached toilet.
So I think it's still not too bad.
No kidding?!?!! :eek: u can actually rent your utility room out!!
i hope the toilet is not just a bottle or bucket in the corner :D
No lah of course not. But once open the sofa bed place very tight. Toilet & cupboard ok.
No kidding?!?!! :eek: u can actually rent your utility room out!!
i hope the toilet is not just a bottle or bucket in the corner :D
frostiecasio
10-04-12, 13:02
No lah of course not. But once open the sofa bed place very tight. Toilet & cupboard ok.
can share how much did you rent it out for? which district? thanks.
Err bro, u sure these MMs toped?
Very centra suites, airstream, opal going to top but yet to. Especially palmera east got prob TOPing.
Whoa u very the well informed hor... Think u can take over that who mcmlx or whatever...
No kidding?!?!! :eek: u can actually rent your utility room out!!
i hope the toilet is not just a bottle or bucket in the corner :D
LOLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hahaha actually I'm renting out my so called maid's room or utility room and though it needs a sofa bed cuz room quite small, but my tenant still has her own walk in wardrobe (a deep depression into the wall in the room) plus attached toilet.
So I think it's still not too bad.
How much did rent that room for? Maybe I need to start collecting rent from my helper soon.
Hahaha, cannot lah. Helper isn't a tenant. Plus, the rent is more than the helper's pay.
How much did rent that room for? Maybe I need to start collecting rent from my helper soon.
any MM owners can share whether $3.5k/mth rental is realistic? Personally i heavily doubt so.
3.5k is on the high side.
Just check the adverts on propertyguru and you will find that even MMs in superb locations such as in the Farrer Park area are going for below 3k.
Afew months ago, I saw adverts for Kovan Grandeur MMs going for 2k to 2.5k and I think this price range should be the realistic rental one can expect to get for MMs in the suburbs.
As for Geylang, I still doubt that well-heeled expats will be willing to stay in the area unless the rentals are attractive. As the news reported, MM units are new and untested in Geylang and given that there will be 1900 units in the market within the next few years, competition is expected to be stiff and unforgiving for the owners.
Well said.
That's a good point in favour of MMs. For singles who may have a busy lifestyle, there is less home maintenance needed for a MM. And being single, no need to employ a maid to do the housework. Maybe just a weekly house cleaning service if you are available to be at home when the cleaner comes.
And don't forget about those people who are getting older, "ENERGY NOT ENOUGH".:D
Hahaha actually I'm renting out my so called maid's room or utility room and though it needs a sofa bed cuz room quite small, but my tenant still has her own walk in wardrobe (a deep depression into the wall in the room) plus attached toilet.
So I think it's still not too bad.
how does the utility room look like??? i am curious ..
And don't forget about those people who are getting older, "ENERGY NOT ENOUGH".:D
Age regardless, energy can be better spent with family interaction, playing with and walking pets plus exercising and fun. Time spent cleaning a large house where many sections not often used is time wasted. I dunno to laugh or cry when I see some friends condo close up all bedrooms other than master room saying never use... Or only once in blue moon for guest. Yet they still have to clean once every month or so as spaces are never air tight and you dont want creepy crawlies or mites turning the unused spaces into their own homes....
Age regardless, energy can be better spent with family interaction, playing with and walking pets plus exercising and fun. Time spent cleaning a large house where many sections not often used is time wasted. I dunno to laugh or cry when I see some friends condo close up all bedrooms other than master room saying never use... Or only once in blue moon for guest. Yet they still have to clean once every month or so as spaces are never air tight and you dont want creepy crawlies or mites turning the unused spaces into their own homes....
exactly. i feel the same too! many newly weds especially often complain about not being able to afford the 5 room flat or biggest EC unit. Parents end up paying their downpayment for them. Honestly, do we need that many rooms? i'd rather get a smaller flat, spend the excess $ somewhere else or invest in something more useful than having useless room at home.
exactly. i feel the same too! many newly weds especially often complain about not being able to afford the 5 room flat or biggest EC unit. Parents end up paying their downpayment for them. Honestly, do we need that many rooms? i'd rather get a smaller flat, spend the excess $ somewhere else or invest in something more useful than having useless room at home.
High percentage are Chinese. Chinese typically place emphasis on face value. Big is better esp during house warming and chinese new year house visits... Wont appear too shabby.... It hurts them when friends and relatives the moment they step in Wa so small ah!! or Is this it?! Thats all? I thought thats only the study area... Omg
Wild Falcon
11-04-12, 14:21
Its because they have exceeded the income limit for 3 room and 4 room flats. i believe the income limit for 3 room flats is VERY LOW. So if both working grads, chances of exceeding the limit is very high. In short, they are barred from buying 3-room flats direct from HDB due to their income levels. the most popular is actually 4-rm flat but most have exceeded limit and forced to buy 5-room.
exactly. i feel the same too! many newly weds especially often complain about not being able to afford the 5 room flat or biggest EC unit. Parents end up paying their downpayment for them. Honestly, do we need that many rooms? i'd rather get a smaller flat, spend the excess $ somewhere else or invest in something more useful than having useless room at home.
Its because they have exceeded the income limit for 3 room and 4 room flats. i believe the income limit for 3 room flats is VERY LOW. So if both working grads, chances of exceeding the limit is very high. In short, they are barred from buying 3-room flats direct from HDB due to their income levels. the most popular is actually 4-rm flat but most have exceeded limit and forced to buy 5-room.
Type of Flat Average Gross Monthly Household Income
Buying a 3-room (mature towns/estates), 3-room (Premium), 4-room or bigger flat
Your average gross monthly household income must not exceed $10,000
If you are buying a flat with your extended family, your average gross monthly household income must not exceed $15,000
Please do ur research first :D:cheers5:
$10k still low? young teens these days 5-8k chiong EC liao. parents pay ma :D
The only reason why 4 and 5 room flats are more popular because like wat the previous post was saying. Face.
Will u have face if ur own son/daughter bought a 3 roomflat?? :D:cheers5: parents or the teens themselves will buy at least a 4rm to look good. even they were earning 4-5k total.
exactly. i feel the same too! many newly weds especially often complain about not being able to afford the 5 room flat or biggest EC unit. Parents end up paying their downpayment for them. Honestly, do we need that many rooms? i'd rather get a smaller flat, spend the excess $ somewhere else or invest in something more useful than having useless room at home.
When you have kids, even just 2 kids, you prolly need min. 3+Study. I know of people who started with small condos and when the kids came along, they find it difficult to upgrade to a bigger condo and have to settle into a HDB 5 room or Exec. It's a pity cos kids love the facilities in condos.
When you have kids, even just 2 kids, you prolly need min. 3+Study. I know of people who started with small condos and when the kids came along, they find it difficult to upgrade to a bigger condo and have to settle into a HDB 5 room or Exec. It's a pity cos kids love the facilities in condos.
depends la. haha like previously i shared that i know a family of 5 adults who bought minton 2+study for ownstay :D 3 generation!
depends la. haha like previously i shared that i know a family of 5 adults who bought minton 2+study for ownstay :D 3 generation!
:scared-1: I hope they dun put the grandma/grandpa in the bomb shelter...
exactly. i feel the same too! many newly weds especially often complain about not being able to afford the 5 room flat or biggest EC unit. Parents end up paying their downpayment for them. Honestly, do we need that many rooms? i'd rather get a smaller flat, spend the excess $ somewhere else or invest in something more useful than having useless room at home.
the room is not unless lah, u can choose to rent out a room for couple of hundreds, 2 room can get 1k.....
my friend got a 4 room flat and her friends laugh at her being stupid buy so big space for what. She rents out 2 rooms collects slightly more than 1k and her monthly installment is 1k using CPF.
so the room is not really useless..... its the preference to use what you have.
the room is not unless lah, u can choose to rent out a room for couple of hundreds, 2 room can get 1k.....
my friend got a 4 room flat and her friends laugh at her being stupid buy so big space for what. She rents out 2 rooms collects slightly more than 1k and her monthly installment is 1k using CPF.
so the room is not really useless..... its the preference to use what you have.
i'd rather save the $ slowly build up the capital for my PC investment after 5 years MOP.
i'd rather save the $ slowly build up the capital for my PC investment after 5 years MOP.
in my example above, by paying a 10% more deposit(using CPF) on the difference between 3 rm vs 4 rm, and staying in it while renting out the extra rooms, in 5 years one could accumulate extra $60k on top of what he/her could accumulate. Just a thought, not saying nayone should or not do it.
in my example above, by paying a 10% more deposit(using CPF) on the difference between 3 rm vs 4 rm, and staying in it while renting out the extra rooms, in 5 years one could accumulate extra $60k on top of what he/her could accumulate. Just a thought, not saying nayone should or not do it.
well, we are assuming that the tenant does not become disgruntled and make a call to HDB to report illegal subletting of unit. if the tenant decides to go rougue one day, jia lat liao
well, we are assuming that the tenant does not become disgruntled and make a call to HDB to report illegal subletting of unit. if the tenant decides to go rougue one day, jia lat liao
good point. almost forgot about the MOP years where u not supposed to sublet. I guess daytona do things differently :D:cheers5:
Rosegarden
11-04-12, 18:43
Why is it illegal if not the whole flat is rented out?
Renting out a room is ok as long as the owner lives in the house.
Why is it illegal if not the whole flat is rented out?
Renting out a room is ok as long as the owner lives in the house.
hmm just checked, it is not illegal to sublet spare rooms.
But honestly speaking, why go to such extents to earn the extra buck? Like that got face meh? by big house for face then u sublet for small income -:banghead:
good point. almost forgot about the MOP years where u not supposed to sublet. I guess daytona do things differently :D:cheers5:
yup, dont all successful pple do it differently. Same house , to some its a liability, to some its an asset.
i feel silly to share but tio suan. Think i better stick to charging for sharing :cheers4:
yup, dont all successful pple do it differently. Same house , to some its a liability, to some its an asset.
i feel silly to share but tio suan. Think i better stick to charging for sharing :cheers4:
haha not suaning u lar bro. But honestly, if i were one of these newly weds, i'd rather buy a smaller house than buying an extra room or two for rental income. seriously can u imagine ur home becoming like a hostel? No privacy for the newly weds at all!!
Yes indeed it makes monetary sense to rent out the extra rooms. but come on! be honest with urself, will u do it? Will ur new wife to be willing to let u do it? Do u feel safe with a newborn child and a stranger living together under one roof? :doh: :doh: :doh:
So jialat just to save for my installment i rather buy 2room HDB if <5k l:sleep: :cheers5:
haha not suaning u lar bro. But honestly, if i were one of these newly weds, i'd rather buy a smaller house than buying an extra room or two for rental income. seriously can u imagine ur home becoming like a hostel? No privacy for the newly weds at all!!
Yes indeed it makes monetary sense to rent out the extra rooms. but come on! be honest with urself, will u do it? Will ur new wife to be willing to let u do it? Do u feel safe with a newborn child and a stranger living together under one roof? :doh: :doh: :doh:
So jialat just to save for my installment i rather buy 2room HDB if <5k l:sleep: :cheers5:
it all depends on individual situation. my friend is single. I merely quoted u an idea based on your earlier posting on how sometimes bigger maybe better based on amt deposited on 3rm n 4rm and saving up $$$ to put into a investment property. Not going into adding new dimensions like new weds and kids. I could also go on to say dual key etc... but i m not going there.
So thats all on this point.
haha not suaning u lar bro. But honestly, if i were one of these newly weds, i'd rather buy a smaller house than buying an extra room or two for rental income. seriously can u imagine ur home becoming like a hostel? No privacy for the newly weds at all!!
Yes indeed it makes monetary sense to rent out the extra rooms. but come on! be honest with urself, will u do it? Will ur new wife to be willing to let u do it? Do u feel safe with a newborn child and a stranger living together under one roof? :doh: :doh: :doh:
So jialat just to save for my installment i rather buy 2room HDB if <5k l:sleep: :cheers5:
When one is short of cash or hopes to earn extra cash, this minor inconvenience means very little. After a while you will get used to it. Have experienced this both ways.
Newly weds and younger couples with babies probably would avoid such situations but older couples generally do not mind. The usual problems with renting single rooms out cannot be avoided, like when tenants bring friends back or when they quarrel.
it all depends on individual situation. my friend is single. I merely quoted u an idea based on your earlier posting on how sometimes bigger maybe better based on amt deposited on 3rm n 4rm and saving up $$$ to put into a investment property. Not going into adding new dimensions like new weds and kids. I could also go on to say dual key etc... but i m not going there.
So thats all on this point.
When one is short of cash or hopes to earn extra cash, this minor inconvenience means very little. After a while you will get used to it. Have experienced this both ways.
Newly weds and younger couples with babies probably would avoid such situations but older couples generally do not mind. The usual problems with renting single rooms out cannot be avoided, like when tenants bring friends back or when they quarrel.
Yep, got it. thanks for sharing! :D:cheers5:
hmm just checked, it is not illegal to sublet spare rooms.
But honestly speaking, why go to such extents to earn the extra buck? Like that got face meh? by big house for face then u sublet for small income -:banghead:
The person who buy big apartment and sublet the extra rooms obviously has attended Finance 101. He is using other people money to pay for his own loan. You may think he has no face but years down the road, he probably has a lot more face than a lot of people buying small apartment and still paying the loan.
The person who buy big apartment and sublet the extra rooms obviously has attended Finance 101. He is using other people money to pay for his own loan. You may think he has no face but years down the road, he probably has a lot more face than a lot of people buying small apartment and still paying the loan.
Like always, buy within your means. But like what the other bros have share above, different people have different comfort level. My own opinion is that I won't sublet my room, unless it's a dual key. A home is meant for me and my family. It is not a home anymore if strangers come in and out.:2cents:
Furthermore, this is a Condo forum. how many Condo investors will stay in their HDB and sublet?? Stay in PC then sublet whole HDB is a different story.
Like always, buy within your means. But like what the other bros have share above, different people have different comfort level. My own opinion is that I won't sublet my room, unless it's a dual key. A home is meant for me and my family. It is not a home anymore if strangers come in and out.:2cents:
Furthermore, this is a Condo forum. how many Condo investors will stay in their HDB and sublet?? Stay in PC then sublet whole HDB is a different story.
Agree with your para one. I am not likely to sublet my extra rooms too knowing that it does not make financial sense. However, there are many people who are accumulating wealth will do just that and equally earn my respect.
As for your para two, I am aware that there are far too many people staying in their HDB flats and sublet their PCs.
The person who buy big apartment and sublet the extra rooms obviously h attended Finance 101. He is using other people money to pay for his own loan. You may think he has no face but years down the road, he probably has a lot more face than a lot of people buying small apartment and still paying the loan.
I remember there was this sunday times article interview about a couple who did just that. They rented the place and then lease out 2 other rooms... something like always travelling and seldom at home. Let others pay for rental and still get to use facilities.
Smart... just have to be able to than lor...
When one is short of cash or hopes to earn extra cash, this minor inconvenience means very little. After a while you will get used to it. Have experienced this both ways.
Newly weds and younger couples with babies probably would avoid such situations but older couples generally do not mind. The usual problems with renting single rooms out cannot be avoided, like when tenants bring friends back or when they quarrel.
I belong to the older couples group but I don't think I can accept staying with strangers and don't know whether can they be trusted or not. You have to make sure that all your valuable things are locked properly and cannot anyhow place your money or confidential letters on your tables like what I did now, not much freedom.:cool: Unless you are really in need of money, then no choice lor.:(
Agree with your para one. I am not likely to sublet my extra rooms too knowing that it does not make financial sense. However, there are many people who are accumulating wealth will do just that and equally earn my respect.
As for your para two, I am aware that there are far too many people staying in their HDB flats and sublet their PCs.
What i meant was staying in their HDB, sublet their HDB rooms and PCs. :D
I belong to the older couples group but I don't think I can accept staying with strangers and don't know whether can they be trusted or not. You have to make sure that all your valuable things are locked properly and cannot anyhow place your money or confidential letters on your tables like what I did now, not much freedom.:cool: Unless you are really in need of money, then no choice lor.:(
Agreed, when u do that, ur own way of life changes. Your home becomes a place which is unsafe for your personal belongings to be lying around.
Why is it illegal if not the whole flat is rented out?
Renting out a room is ok as long as the owner lives in the house.
by official guidelines, it's considered illegal. by the letter of law, one must write to seek HDB's approval to sublet the flat even after MOP.
Rosegarden
12-04-12, 10:21
by official guidelines, it's considered illegal. by the letter of law, one must write to seek HDB's approval to sublet the flat even after MOP.
No. You don't need prior approval from HDB for renting out rooms. Just need to register your rental within 7 days. Check it out at the hdb website.
No. You don't need prior approval from HDB for renting out rooms. Just need to register your rental within 7 days. Check it out at the hdb website.
for room and flat, must satisfy MOP. whole flat must seek HDB approval
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10323p.nsf/w/RentOpenMktRentOutWholeFlat?OpenDocument
read my post carefully
Rosegarden
12-04-12, 10:51
for room and flat, must satisfy MOP. whole flat must seek HDB approval
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10323p.nsf/w/RentOpenMktRentOutWholeFlat?OpenDocument
read my post carefully
Only for entire flat. My post, and the preceding discussions, was on renting out rooms while owners stay in. You said "by official guidelines, it's considered illegal" in response to it. Maybe you didn't read carefully?
If indeed renting out rooms (NOT entire flat) is illegal before MOP, please quote the source and I'll be glad to stand corrected, so that readers of this forum will not be misled.
yup, dont all successful pple do it differently. Same house , to some its a liability, to some its an asset.
i feel silly to share but tio suan. Think i better stick to charging for sharing :cheers4:
diff people value privacy at different rate... if finances tight, it becomes just a luxury.
The person who buy big apartment and sublet the extra rooms obviously has attended Finance 101. He is using other people money to pay for his own loan. You may think he has no face but years down the road, he probably has a lot more face than a lot of people buying small apartment and still paying the loan.
i oso believe in suffer first enjoy later
I belong to the older couples group but I don't think I can accept staying with strangers and don't know whether can they be trusted or not. You have to make sure that all your valuable things are locked properly and cannot anyhow place your money or confidential letters on your tables like what I did now, not much freedom.:cool: Unless you are really in need of money, then no choice lor.:(Do you have a domestic helper at home?
Rosegarden
12-04-12, 14:43
i oso believe in suffer first enjoy later
That's because you are uncle. But the ah dee nowadays believe must enjoy first, because later dunno got chance to enjoy or not, and even got chance cannot enjoy much when old. Seize the moment! Live life to the fullest! Live fast, love hard, die young! Yes! http://www.metrolyrics.com/live-fast-die-young-lyrics-rick-ross.html
:scared-2:
Do you have a domestic helper at home?
No. Never have one in my life so far.:scared-3:
That's because you are uncle. But the ah dee nowadays believe must enjoy first, because later dunno got chance to enjoy or not, and even got chance cannot enjoy much when old. Seize the moment! Live life to the fullest! Live fast, love hard, die young! Yes! http://www.metrolyrics.com/live-fast-die-young-lyrics-rick-ross.html
:scared-2:So you are also an ah dee/mei?
No. Never have one in my life so far.:scared-3:Yup... think u might be freaked out if you have one... no end to your stress of living with someone you cannot fully fully trust! :eek:
Agree with your para one. I am not likely to sublet my extra rooms too knowing that it does not make financial sense. However, there are many people who are accumulating wealth will do just that and equally earn my respect.
As for your para two, I am aware that there are far too many people staying in their HDB flats and sublet their PCs.
Call me old fashion but I wouldn't buy a big house just to sublet the rooms to strangers for a quick buck.
I feel that the sanctity of a Home must be preserved and not so much about "face". If I have to do it, it would be because I am hard strapped for cash and not because I want to accumulate wealth... at least not this way.
Tenants may murder you...
That's because you are uncle. But the ah dee nowadays believe must enjoy first, because later dunno got chance to enjoy or not, and even got chance cannot enjoy much when old. Seize the moment! Live life to the fullest! Live fast, love hard, die young! Yes! http://www.metrolyrics.com/live-fast-die-young-lyrics-rick-ross.html
:scared-2:
Actually our life are full of contradicting. One moment we are afraid that if we don't enjoy now, don't know whether we will have the chance to enjoy later or not. :scared-4: Next moment, we will think, if we started to save young, by the time when we grow old, don't need to struggle so hard and yet still can enjoy the fruits that we have planted at our earlier age. :p IMHO, it is okay to enjoy young but try to save a certan percentage of your salary to prepare for raining season.:2cents:
Once I met a woman at the hawker centre while waiting for our food. She told me that she never goes for holidays before. When her husband was still around, he wanted to bring her for a holiday but she wanted to wait for her children to grow up first. Unfortunately, before her children had grown up, her husband was gone, life is really very unpredictable.:( It was lucky that now her grown up children are all very filial to her.:)
Yup... think u might be freaked out if you have one... no end to your stress of living with someone you cannot fully fully trust! :eek:
If you are lucky, you will get a good one, if not, she will create more headache for you.
The main reason why I don't want a domestic helper is that I have heard alot of negative feedbacks from my friends.:tsk-tsk:
Actually our life are full of contradicting. One moment we are afraid that if we don't enjoy now, don't know whether we will have the chance to enjoy later or not. :scared-4: Next moment, we will think, if we started to save young, by the time when we grow old, don't need to struggle so hard and yet still can enjoy the fruits that we have planted at our earlier age. :p IMHO, it is okay to enjoy young but try to save a certan percentage of your salary to prepare for raining season.:2cents:
Once I met a woman at the hawker centre while waiting for our food. She told me that she never goes for holidays before. When her husband was still around, he wanted to bring her for a holiday but she wanted to wait for her children to grow up first. Unfortunately, before her children had grown up, her husband was gone, life is really very unpredictable.:( It was lucky that now her grown up children are all very filial to her.:)
Moral of story? If hubby cant afford holidays, ask the chewren....
If you are lucky, you will get a good one, if not, she will create more headache for you.
The main reason why I don't want a domestic helper is that I have heard alot of negative feedbacks from my friends.:tsk-tsk:
You know, they are human too. And they can sense if you dont trust them from day 1. Then they dont trust you back. Trust needs to be built over time. But of course not by staying together from day 1.... Even finding hubby or wife also need to date first then bring back home after some time... Having said that, many of them domestic helpers are parents of many kids back home and probably has lots more we can learn from if we keept an open mind....
Tenants may murder you...
You watch too much tv....
You watch too much tv....
U think I bluff you. It happened in Singapore before.
U think I bluff you. It happened in Singapore before.
Ya la. Media sensationalised one or two off cases la. Else Singapore very boring you know... Tenant also scared kena murdered, molested, raped, poisoned, locked up, locked out, locked in by landlord what...
Ya la. Media sensationalised one or two off cases la. Else Singapore very boring you know... Tenant also scared kena murdered, molested, raped, poisoned, locked up, locked out, locked in by landlord what...
I dun want to give you the full article else you cannot sleep tonight. If you are really curious just search HWZ EDMW forum...
Moral of story? If hubby cant afford holidays, ask the chewren....
No, not that the husband cannot afford the holidays. His wife didn't expect her husband to die so young, if she knew it, she would definitely go holiday with him. That's why I said life is so unpredictable.
I dun want to give you the full article else you cannot sleep tonight. If you are really curious just search HWZ EDMW forum...
No scared. I live alone. ;-)
No scared. I live alone. ;-)
Time to find a carbauntie...
Time to find a carbauntie...
Haha.... good one!:)
Time to find a carbauntie...
Grrrr.... My nick is one word not two words combined ok energetic hyena
If you are lucky, you will get a good one, if not, she will create more headache for you.
The main reason why I don't want a domestic helper is that I have heard alot of negative feedbacks from my friends.:tsk-tsk:
u know a lot of pple cannot make it lah, they pay peanuts and they expect maids to be god sent. see too much of these pple ard. usually its the employers them got mind problem. want no problem maid, pay $3000 a month lah sure get top class no problem household assistance.<----- not talking about you. you can suggest to your friend
Grrrr.... My nick is one word not two words combined ok energetic hyena
Hahaha.... I thought split to two words is better? Check out the dictionary......
A carbuncle is a skin infection that often involves a group of hair follicles. The infected material forms a lump, which occurs deep in the skin and may contain pus.
Just kidding lah....
Hahaha.... I thought split to two words is better? Check out the dictionary......
A carbuncle is a skin infection that often involves a group of hair follicles. The infected material forms a lump, which occurs deep in the skin and may contain pus.
Just kidding lah....
I like it when people degrade or make fun of me.... Its fun. Coz I also do that to others... Just to relax lol.... Yes the definition you got it right... I meant to come across as nasty and putrid in my comments in here.... Mince no words!!!!!
You know, they are human too. And they can sense if you dont trust them from day 1. Then they dont trust you back. Trust needs to be built over time. But of course not by staying together from day 1.... Even finding hubby or wife also need to date first then bring back home after some time... Having said that, many of them domestic helpers are parents of many kids back home and probably has lots more we can learn from if we keept an open mind....
I said don't know whether can the TENANT be trusted or not if stay together but that doesn't mean that I don't trust my maid if I have one. If you are prepared to employ a maid, the first thing to do is to trust her, then slowly understand her, if not no point employing her. Maids are recommended from agency, anything goes wrong can still find the maid agency but tenant is different, you don't know his/her complete family background, if I want to rent out my unit, I would rather rent out my whole house to avoid any inconvenience.
Sometimes you trust people but will that person be trustworthy or not?
Negative feedbacks from my friends don't mean that they steal things. Maybe I can quote some examples :-
1) My sister's friend. Her husband had an affair with the maid. His wife was still so ignorant, trusted and treated her maid so well that when the contract expired, she even bought an extra airticket for her husband to send the maid home, scared that the maid might lost her way, later then realised the whole story.:doh: Friends were all laughing at her for being so generous to send her husband to the maid.
2) My auntie's maid. The husband and wife were overseas most of the time doing business, only left her 16 yrs old daughter and the maid at home. One day, my auntie realised that the maid kept on looking at the mirror (look at her stomach), she thought that the maid had grown fatter, until one day, her maid told my auntie that she was pregnant.:scared-1: And the worst thing was that her daughter knew about the affair and helped them to cover up:doh: . Her daughter later confessed that everytimes when the man called and when her mother was at home, she would asked the man to call later. When her parents were not at home, she would let the man come into the house.:doh:
All about trust but end up like that.:scared-3:
3) My ex-colleague. Her maid threatened her with a knife when she wanted to send her back to the agency during the trial period.
I said don't know whether can the TENANT be trusted or not if stay together but that doesn't mean that I don't trust my maid if I have one. If you are prepared to employ a maid, the first thing to do is to trust her, then slowly understand her, if not no point employing her. Maids are recommended from agency, anything goes wrong can still find the maid agency but tenant is different, you don't know his/her complete family background, if I want to rent out my unit, I would rather rent out my whole house to avoid any inconvenience.
Sometimes you trust people but will that person be trustworthy or not?
Negative feedbacks from my friends don't mean that they steal things. Maybe I can quote some examples :-
1) My sister's friend. Her husband had an affair with the maid. His wife was still so ignorant, trusted and treated her maid so well that when the contract expired, she even bought an extra airticket for her husband to send the maid home, scared that the maid might lost her way, later then realised the whole story.:doh: Friends were all laughing at her for being so generous to send her husband to the maid.
2) My auntie's maid. The husband and wife were overseas most of the time doing business, only left her 16 yrs old daughter and the maid at home. One day, my auntie realised that the maid kept on looking at the mirror (look at her stomach), she thought that the maid had grown fatter, until one day, her maid told my auntie that she was pregnant.:scared-1: And the worst thing was that her daughter knew about the affair and helped them to cover up:doh: . Her daughter later confessed that everytimes when the man called and when her mother was at home, she would asked the man to call later. When her parents were not at home, she would let the man come into the house.:doh:
All about trust but end up like that.:scared-3:
3) My ex-colleague. Her maid threatened her with a knife when she wanted to send her back to the agency during the trial period.
Your reply started out machaim want to convince me you trust your maid but the stories you shared all very appalling leh
u know a lot of pple cannot make it lah, they pay peanuts and they expect maids to be god sent. see too much of these pple ard. usually its the employers them got mind problem. want no problem maid, pay $3000 a month lah sure get top class no problem household assistance.<----- not talking about you. you can suggest to your friend
I agree, sometimes it is the employers' problem, cannot totally blame on the maids.
Try not to treat the maid badly, if not if you have children, then you know what I mean....
Someone told me that she saw a maid trying to push the child out to the road, cos, I think the employer might have treated this maid badly, that's why she was trying to vent the anger at the child. Luckily the child knew how to retreat back.
Your reply started out machaim want to convince me you trust your maid but the stories you shared all very appalling leh
I'm not trying to convince you that I trust my maid (if I have one) because till now, I still have no courage to employ one, haha. But those stories are true, I didn't make it up myself, believe me:cool-punk-headbange .
I'm not trying to convince you that I trust my maid (if I have one) because till now, I still have no courage to employ one, haha. But those stories are true, I didn't make it up myself, believe me:cool-punk-headbange .
Yes I heard those too. Well all my mum and aunties have maids so I have fair share of the stories... My mum maid though is a special case. Dont even want day off rather take more allowance... And also said she dont wanna get involved with trouble and men... She married with kids back home in Indonesia...
Yes I heard those too. Well all my mum and aunties have maids so I have fair share of the stories... My mum maid though is a special case. Dont even want day off rather take more allowance... And also said she dont wanna get involved with trouble and men... She married with kids back home in Indonesia...
I read from a newspaper about some maids who make full use of their off days. They spend their times learning extra things, like cooking, hairdressing etc. I think these should be the correct approach, instead of wasting their times wandering or sitting around with friends or sometimes even create her own problem by having affair with man.
its interesting how a discussion now the idea on getting a bigger apartment and renting out the spare rooms to take advantage of one's situation can end up taking about husband screwing the maid. very interesting ; )
Grrrr.... My nick is one word not two words combined ok energetic hyena
That's a good twist :p
I read from a newspaper about some maids who make full use of their off days. They spend their times learning extra things, like cooking, hairdressing etc. I think these should be the correct approach, instead of wasting their times wandering or sitting around with friends or sometimes even create her own problem by having affair with man.
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
Rosegarden
13-04-12, 13:22
Grrrr.... My nick is one word not two words combined ok energetic hyena
Mine too!
It means to cause (someone) to take an optimistic view of things (rosé + égard + en).
For example, Khaw's confidence in his policies rosegardened Singaporeans' outlook for affordable housing.
I think the word originates from Corsica.
:D
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
You are relating your personal experience?
Having said that, there are many Singaporean men who (literally) carry their gf/wife's handbag. Or maybe those are non-Singaporean women? ;)
Bruther, you have some "hard-diamond family jewels" on you to say all this!!
If I had only half the bravery you have, I'd agree with you 100%.
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
Mine too!
It means to cause (someone) to take an optimistic view of things (rosé + égard + en).
For example, Khaw's confidence in his policies rosegardened Singaporeans' outlook for affordable housing.
I think the word originates from Corsica.
:D
I learnt something new! Thx
Bruther, you have some "hard-diamond family jewels" on you to say all this!!
If I had only half the bravery you have, I'd agree with you 100%.
You are good. Carbuncle refers to the jewel (usually Ruby) and in certain fantasy rpg is framed at the temple of the GF (Guardian Force);-). Carbuncle has the summon power of Reflect. That is the chosen effect I wanna have on readers here - to reflect upon the discussions and my bad ass comments. And for the nasty ones, Reflect back your curses onto yourself... So there are multiple objectives in my choice of nick...
You are relating your personal experience?
Having said that, there are many Singaporean men who (literally) carry their gf/wife's handbag. Or maybe those are non-Singaporean women? ;)
I am perfectly fine to carry their handbag or whatever bag if they really hands full with files, kid or whichever. But not while they both hands free swinging and carefree!!!!! I will similarly open door or move out the seat for them in same situation. I do that even for male friends who hands full.
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
+ 1 like
high quality post
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
What's with this undergarment and work clothes thing? Which century were you born in?
sounds like cabuncle needs some marital counselling :D
sounds like cabuncle needs some marital counselling :D
Hee hee... What say you leh. Any kind advice...
Best is - don't get married unless you really want children.
Or need to register for BTO flat ...:)
Hee hee... What say you leh. Any kind advice...
Best is - don't get married unless you really want children.
Or need to register for BTO flat ...:)
Me already got privates how to have hdbee...
Advice for general consumption - not for you specifically.
For you, then first part applies.
If already got wife - then good luck to you.
Me already got privates how to have hdbee...
iwantgizmos
13-04-12, 17:42
Advice for general consumption - not for you specifically.
For you, then first part applies.
If already got wife - then good luck to you.
Now the cost of having a wife is more expensive than buying a property....
Trust me...
Now the cost of having a wife is more expensive than buying a property....
Trust me...
You are assuming the woman earns less than the man and that she is also more extravagant... this may have been the case in the past but not anymore.
In fact increasingly, the fact is opposite of what you are saying... people are getting married so as to be able to combine their income to afford a property.
If there is any cost to burden... I would say it is the loss of freedom rather than the loss of money
You are assuming the woman earns less than the man and that she is also more extravagant... this may have been the case in the past but not anymore.
In fact increasingly, the fact is opposite of what you are saying... people are getting married so as to be able to combine their income to afford a property.
If there is any cost to burden... I would say it is the loss of freedom rather than the loss of money
Lost money can earn back. Lost freedom and youth... ....
Hee hee... What say you leh. Any kind advice...
What kind of advice do you need? :p
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
Not all SG women are like dat lah. It's true I can't cook, actually can whip out simple dishes but u r too tired after work then must still coach kids etc. Cooking is last on ur mind. I earn same if not, more than my other half yet I still give him due respect and we both contribute equally to e household n kids education. And all his clothes in e wardrobe, from casual to working are all bought by n paid by me. And when he wants to upgrade my diamond ring or buy Chanel for me I reject cause I rather keep e monies for kids. I love to shop, which woman dun, but I use my own $$ n not his. So not all SG woman are like dat :)
but of course he does his part as a dad n spend time wif kiddos too. And if he doesn't I'll nag at him till he does. Nagging is inborn to women, programmed inside us n cannot change le!! So I guess it's all give n take
buttercarp
13-04-12, 22:48
And when he wants to upgrade my diamond ring or buy Chanel for me I reject cause I rather keep e monies for kids. I love to shop, which woman dun, but I use my own $$ n not his. So not all SG woman are like dat :)
At least you got a diamond ring.
I rejected the rock and told him to invest in gold instead.
I rejected his offer to buy me LV/ Chanel and bought Coach instead.
Yup, not all SG gals are materialistic.
But I must say some SG gals may appear rather intimidating to SG guys, and they feel that they must be of a certain calibre to be able to approach the SG gals in the first place.
Well, learn those so that all the better to seduce Sir with... Make Mum totally redundant. Sg women also la. High maintenance. Dont want kids or dont want too early. No mood for make love all the time, only got mood say yearly wedding anniversary. Cant cook properly. Do housework must demand share and timetable. Wont iron hubby clothes. Wash their own undergarment together with hubby work clothes. Never help hubby wash the car expect hubby to fetch to and from work every day. Shopping only know how to swipe hubby credit card dunno how to carry groceries... Etc etc... I mean, come on. Which non self humiliating and punishing sg man would not choose a woman who can fulfil the role of a wife better?? (Flame incoming! Hide!)
Aiyoh, what cause you to have such a thinking?
1) Maids learn things is to upgrade themselves, they don't want to idle their time away, this is mature thinking.
2) It is very common for husband and wife to share the houseworks and look after their children together, this create bonds and better relationship between the husband and wife.
I don't know why you have such a negative thinking about females. Maybe you have come across one before but not everybody are like that lah.:tongue3:
At least you got a diamond ring.
I rejected the rock and told him to invest in gold instead.
I rejected his offer to buy me LV/ Chanel and bought Coach instead.
Yup, not all SG gals are materialistic.
But I must say some SG gals may appear rather intimidating to SG guys, and they feel that they must be of a certain calibre to be able to approach the SG gals in the first place.
*hi-five, Sis!*
u made e right decision! Till now I'm still grumbling abt buying e rock. If I had bought gold then it would have appreciated in value a few times. And now also dun wear e ring le cause scared scratch e kids when carrying them, faint
Lost money can earn back. Lost freedom and youth... ....
It depends on how you look at things. I don't find marriage is a lost of freedom and youth, as long as both parties do not restrict each other, you still have your freedom to go out with friends but of course not to create havoc lah, must have responsibility lor, understand. :D
Your spouse might not be just your spouse, he/she might be the one who can share your sorrow and happiness together. :)
At least you got a diamond ring.
I rejected the rock and told him to invest in gold instead.
I rejected his offer to buy me LV/ Chanel and bought Coach instead.
Yup, not all SG gals are materialistic.
But I must say some SG gals may appear rather intimidating to SG guys, and they feel that they must be of a certain calibre to be able to approach the SG gals in the first place.
If only more sg gals are like sis buttercarp....
Not all SG women are like dat lah. It's true I can't cook, actually can whip out simple dishes but u r too tired after work then must still coach kids etc. Cooking is last on ur mind. I earn same if not, more than my other half yet I still give him due respect and we both contribute equally to e household n kids education. And all his clothes in e wardrobe, from casual to working are all bought by n paid by me. And when he wants to upgrade my diamond ring or buy Chanel for me I reject cause I rather keep e monies for kids. I love to shop, which woman dun, but I use my own $$ n not his. So not all SG woman are like dat :)
Another good woman sis here... Maybe I should find from this forum.
Not all SG women are like dat lah. It's true I can't cook, actually can whip out simple dishes but u r too tired after work then must still coach kids etc. Cooking is last on ur mind. I earn same if not, more than my other half yet I still give him due respect and we both contribute equally to e household n kids education. And all his clothes in e wardrobe, from casual to working are all bought by n paid by me. And when he wants to upgrade my diamond ring or buy Chanel for me I reject cause I rather keep e monies for kids. I love to shop, which woman dun, but I use my own $$ n not his. So not all SG woman are like dat :)
Agree. But my husband belongs to a thrifty group. No expensive gift from the day I know him but I don't mind because I'm more concerned about his care for the family. When we went shopping, I don't use his money but he also felt heartache for me. :p When we went for tour, we shared out the expenses as I do not want him to bear such a big cost because he has his own committment also. During my birthday, we went out for dinner, no present cos I said no need. Just like you, most of his shirts were bought by me because he said no point wasting money, still can wear. But he doesn't mind doing housework for me when I am busy with other things, he helped me washes the family's clothing, mops and vacuums the floor, iron clothing, change bedsheets etc. This is actually give and take. Sometimes he wanted to help me to carry my handbag but I rejected it because I felt weird to let a man carry a lady's bag unless my shoulder is really aching.
Aiyoh, what cause you to have such a thinking?
1) Maids learn things is to upgrade themselves, they don't want to idle their time away, this is mature thinking.
2) It is very common for husband and wife to share the houseworks and look after their children together, this create bonds and better relationship between the husband and wife.
I don't know why you have such a negative thinking about females. Maybe you have come across one before but not everybody are like that lah.:tongue3:
Doesnt help la if from young instilled such ideas by mum plus she also like that... Anyway all my past failed relationships probably caused me to be like that. Got jobless one la, steal job one la, dumb one la, suspicious jealous sort one la, overly holy one la, low self esteem one la.... List goes on. Well but I thank all of them coz helped me to understand human nature and myself better after each...
If only more sg gals are like sis buttercarp....
Another good woman sis here... Maybe I should find from this forum.
Its expected.... women in this forum are likely to be the pragmatic type.
Its expected.... women in this forum are likely to be the pragmatic type.
The one who wear the pants in the house? Keke
Doesnt help la if from young instilled such ideas by mum plus she also like that... Anyway all my past failed relationships probably caused me to be like that. Got jobless one la, steal job one la, dumb one la, suspicious jealous sort one la, overly holy one la, low self esteem one la.... List goes on. Well but I thank all of them coz helped me to understand human nature and myself better after each...
Sorry to dig your "wound". But be more optimistic, it could be that your Mrs Right is "not out yet".
Don't anyhow find one lah, decent girl might think that you are a playboy, so you might miss the chance. Sorry if offence you. :not-worthy:
Be careful what you wish for.....
Would you prefer a woman to wear a gold bangle rather than a diamond bracelet just bcoz gold can better appreciate in price?
It is good to be practical but if a person becomes too practical then you lose a bit of the flavour of life. Women need to be a bit "vain" to retain their feminity.
The one who wear the pants in the house? Keke
buttercarp
14-04-12, 00:09
Be careful what you wish for.....
Would you prefer a woman to wear a gold bangle rather than a diamond bracelet just bcoz gold can better appreciate in price?
It is good to be practical but if a person becomes too practical then you lose a bit of the flavour of life. Women need to be a bit "vain" to retain their feminity.
I agree that women need to be a bit vain to keep themselves attractive to their men.
So the woman must know how to butter her man up.
Its expected.... women in this forum are likely to be the pragmatic type.
haha dis was actually my hubby acc but I lazy set up one so used his. Hence d more 'manly' sounding nick. Yes, I think Sis irisng, buttercarp n me r more practical type. And btw, I grad from accountancy so maybe it's due to my vocation. But growing up in a not well to do family has made me more pragmatic than others n definitely more stingy. When I see the way kids nowadays have all they want, I fear that they will lose their desire to fight n their drive to succeed.
Agree. But my husband belongs to a thrifty group. No expensive gift from the day I know him but I don't mind because I'm more concerned about his care for the family. When we went shopping, I don't use his money but he also felt heartache for me. :p When we went for tour, we shared out the expenses as I do not want him to bear such a big cost because he has his own committment also. During my birthday, we went out for dinner, no present cos I said no need. Just like you, most of his shirts were bought by me because he said no point wasting money, still can wear. But he doesn't mind doing housework for me when I am busy with other things, he helped me washes the family's clothing, mops and vacuums the floor, iron clothing, change bedsheets etc. This is actually give and take. Sometimes he wanted to help me to carry my handbag but I rejected it because I felt weird to let a man carry a lady's bag unless my shoulder is really aching.
dats a good family man husband you have, congrats!
rymccondo77
14-04-12, 01:48
Buttercarp, Extremme and Irisng - what you have posted reminded me of this :) -
[A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.]
Proverbs Chapter 31, Verses 10 to 12.
[She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."]
Proverbs Chapter 31, verses 26-29
Grrrr.... My nick is one word not two words combined ok energetic hyena
Now I know why you got so worked up. Please join SDN http://app.sdn.sg/
I agree that women need to be a bit vain to keep themselves attractive to their men.
So the woman must know how to butter her man up.
Butter up her man's carp?? Lol ;-p
Now I know why you got so worked up. Please join SDN http://app.sdn.sg/
Wei why you like that. You can make fun of my nick I cant do the same to you?
I'm an energetic hyena.
Good to get married n have kids.
I'm an energetic hyena.
Good to get married n have kids.
Hyena kinda cute with their shrill calls... Meant as compliment la ok.... Alright you say carbauntie also meant well I apologise over sensitive kekeke cheers
dats a good family man husband you have, congrats!
My husband was from a poor family, he grew up in a tough way as he is the elder of 8 bros/sis. I'm not from a wealthy family too, maybe that's why we don't "eye" on luxury things. BTW I'm from the accounts side too but not qualify to be an accountant loh.:(
Buttercarp, Extremme and Irisng - what you have posted reminded me of this :) -
[A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.]
Proverbs Chapter 31, Verses 10 to 12.
[She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."]
Proverbs Chapter 31, verses 26-29
How I wish that the above "blue" row comes true, SIGN......... :moon:
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