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Property as a retirement asset
Even within a portfolio of properties, one should diversify to include various property segments
23 Feb 2012 16:41
By Ku Swee Yong
CEO, International Property Advisor Pte Ltd
ALMOST one in 10 Singapore residents are aged 65 and above. There is no dispute that Singapore’s resident population (defined as Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents) of 3,789,300 is ageing.
Recent media discussions about the proposed building of several eldercare centres threw the spotlight on the lack of space to provide our elders with better comfort. We would need to do more to provide for our elders, many of whom have survived the war and contributed to building this country.
The next largest category of our population is aged between 45 and 49 years. This group is 324,000 strong. No surprise that the population distribution bulges in the middle: low birth rates, alongside the need to maintain a strong workforce, meant that immigration policies of the past decade have favoured high net worth families and economically productive young foreigners.
Those who are approaching 50 and are sizing up their nest egg and looking forward to their next decade will increasingly demand retirement planning. Unfortunately, our bills do not retire. They continue to pour in monthly: credit cards, utilities, phones, cable access, etc. How many investment classes provide monthly incomes to help one maintain a reasonable standard of living post-retirement?
I am all for diversified investment portfolios. Depending on one’s risk appetite, one might have some shares, foreign currencies, fixed income, real estate and perhaps some passion investments such as art, wines and watches. As we reach retirement, the portfolio might take on a lower risk profile, for example with less stocks and private equity and with more fixed income and cash.
At this point, a monthly rental income from real estate ranks high on the list of preferred investments. Real estate is a long-term investment, with low price volatility, steady income stream and especially for freehold property, well suited for multi-generational wealth preservation and wealth transfer.
Considering the above, and with the Central Provident Fund (CPF) withdrawal age being pushed further out, more people are investing their accumulated CPF funds into residential properties and collecting rental income from this source. This is an indirect use of CPF funds which might otherwise be available only when one reaches 65 years. There is no denying that life spans are getting extended due to the good quality of our environment and high standards of medical care. Consequently, CPF withdrawal policies might change further down the road.
Even within a portfolio of properties, one should diversify to include various property segments. Each segment of real estate has its own supply-demand cycles and policy risks. Policy risks in the residential segment are the highest, as evidenced by the numerous cooling measures introduced in the past three years. Therefore, the various streams of rental income should include retail, commercial and perhaps overseas properties.
If we were to broaden our scope further, within the real estate space, alternative investments include debt, private equity in completed buildings or development projects, convertible bonds and even Real Estate Investment Trusts (Reits). Several good quality Reits pay quarterly dividends of between 4 and 7 per cent per annum. This is an opportunity for some clients: they took additional leverage on their largely paid-up property at the current home mortgage rates of about 1.2 per cent to invest in Reits. With interest rates expected to stay low for a few more years, some clients also leverage on their property investments to invest in fixed income instruments such as corporate bonds and private equity debt.
Include some debt
We generally recommend clients to take some debt but not so much that it would stretch their finances, especially for retirement planning. A loan-to-value (LTV) ratio of 60-70 per cent, depending on the property type and the client’s risk appetite, provides a good balance between cashflow and risks.
As most mortgages are available to borrowers until they are 70 years old, when investing in a property for retirement cashflow, borrowers need to note the loan repayment plans (which include principal plus interest) versus the potential rental income. For example, an investor aged 58 who has invested in a $1.5 million freehold residential property might take a $900,000 loan (60 per cent LTV) for 12 years. His monthly rental income could be $4,500 but his mortgage payment would be about $7,000 (principal plus interest).
Negative cashflow is not a good thing during retirement. Those who have access to private banking facilities might overcome the negative cashflow situation with revolving credit facilities. A private bank may view a client’s total risk based on the total financial assets and property investments pledged with the bank.
Here, the loan against the client’s property could be structured such that interest payments are serviced regularly but payments towards reducing the principal sum are deferred until, for example, when the client’s investment in a unit trust matures or when a fund is redeemed.
Taking on some debt is good for cashflow purposes but when we consider handing over our wealth to the next generation, having liabilities on the family balance sheet is less desirable. Most of us would not want our children to bear the burden of the property loans upon our demise. In our diversified retirement portfolio, we should always include a Universal Life (UL) insurance plan which has a payout that will cover all the outstanding principal sum of loans.
Those who have several property investments of very different values – say, a landed property, two conservation shophouses and four apartments – might find it challenging to distribute the assets equally to their beneficiaries. In such cases, they could invest in a larger UL that will ensure that the liabilities are paid down upon their demise and in addition, allow for a more even distribution of assets to their beneficiaries.
Involve trustworthy partners
There are a few other things we should consider around our property investments before we can enjoy the cashflow. For legacy planning, would we want to hold the properties under a trust or a foundation? How active do we want to be in managing the investment portfolio after we have retired? Are there tax implications especially where foreign properties may be involved?
Right from the beginning of planning for our retirement, before we even begin to select the assets for our retirement portfolio, we should look for a trustworthy real estate agent and a personal banker. A good banker will assist in managing the loans, the outward payments and reinvesting the incoming rentals. A responsible property agent will help manage the leases and the tenants. Most importantly, the well-qualified property agent must keep tabs on market fluctuations, policy changes and recommend suitable divestments and additions to the portfolio of properties.
Having these strong partners will ensure that our retirement will be a relatively carefree and peaceful one.
The writer is the author of ‘Real Estate Riches – Understanding Singapore’s Property Market in a Volatile Economy’
The author mentioned one should diversify one's property portfolio to minimize risks. For the average salaried worker, buying 1 property in addition to an HDB is already a huge burden. How to diversify? :scared-4:
Dots...
"trustworthy estate agent and personal banker"
Do these exist??? :tsk-tsk:
In my experience, estate agents and bankers work to their own advantage and not yours (unless they are your family or close friends). Their agenda seems to be to maximise commissions and profits for themselves.
So-called financial planners who have come to see me and after I have given them the break-down of my finances, they have vanished into thin air and not contacted me. Sigh....I am obviously a poor prospect to them....prospect of earning commissions not good, therefore not worth to be their valued client. :ashamed1:
The author mentioned one should diversify one's property portfolio to minimize risks. For the average salaried worker, buying 1 property in addition to an HDB is already a huge burden. How to diversify? :scared-4:
those cant afford real house can buy paper house:doh:...when they up the lorry can take with them to next world...:eek:
It is a rather fair proposal for the wealthy ones with the current economic climate.
those cant afford real house can buy paper house:doh:...when they up the lorry can take with them to next world...:eek:
Nowadays ipad also have...
Why is buying a private property beside a hdb a huge burden? I thought it was the other way round. The more properties you've the less burden.
Rental is already covering all my mortgages plus the extra is just for buying the next one.
The author mentioned one should diversify one's property portfolio to minimize risks. For the average salaried worker, buying 1 property in addition to an HDB is already a huge burden. How to diversify? :scared-4:
Dots...
"trustworthy estate agent and personal banker"
Do these exist??? :tsk-tsk:
In my experience, estate agents and bankers work to their own advantage and not yours (unless they are your family or close friends). Their agenda seems to be to maximise commissions and profits for themselves.
So-called financial planners who have come to see me and after I have given them the break-down of my finances, they have vanished into thin air and not contacted me. Sigh....I am obviously a poor prospect to them....prospect of earning commissions not good, therefore not worth to be their valued client. :ashamed1:
Writers expectation of property agents too much la... What he is asking for may be fulfilled by consultants, not mere agents..
Not for those who bought new launches at future price and coupled with increase of interest back to 4-5%.
Why is buying a private property beside a hdb a huge burden? I thought it was the other way round. The more properties you've the less burden.
Rental is already covering all my mortgages plus the extra is just for buying the next one.
My recent purchase in feb interest is 0.8% fixed for 3 years. How come the interest suddenly went up to 4.5% my banker didn't tell me.
If that's the new interest then must thank my banker.
Not for those who bought new launches at future price and coupled with increase of interest back to 4-5%.
My recent purchase in feb interest is 0.8% fixed for 3 years. How come the interest suddenly went up to 4.5% my banker didn't tell me.
If that's the new interest then must thank my banker.
May I know which bank is offering 0.8% fixed for 3 years? thanks
I meant investor has to be prepared when interest goes back to 4-5%. What is the interest after the 3rd year? That is the real issue.
My recent purchase in feb interest is 0.8% fixed for 3 years. How come the interest suddenly went up to 4.5% my banker didn't tell me.
If that's the new interest then must thank my banker.
May I know which bank is offering 0.8% fixed for 3 years? thanks
Yes i would like to know too.... is it 0.8%+3mth sibor? the 0.8% part is fix?
Sorry in case you guys mistaken I don't even have a full time job. I'm a contract worker. So my position to buy property is even tougher but I still feel having 1 property only is the toughest.
As for the interest i got, sorry guys, it was a special rate not available to public.
The author mentioned one should diversify one's property portfolio to minimize risks. For the average salaried worker, buying 1 property in addition to an HDB is already a huge burden. How to diversify? :scared-4:
Why is buying a private property beside a hdb a huge burden? I thought it was the other way round. The more properties you've the less burden.
Rental is already covering all my mortgages plus the extra is just for buying the next one.
Unless the properties are fully paid up, any loan you take for it is technically a liability and hence considered a burden.
The fact that your rental income covers mortgages now does not necessarily mean that it will cover it forever.
I do admire your optimism though.... you are obviously having a good run
The author mentioned one should diversify one's property portfolio to minimize risks. For the average salaried worker, buying 1 property in addition to an HDB is already a huge burden. How to diversify? :scared-4:
Can. Diversify to become part-time MP. $15k pm allowance sure can afford a small landed.
Writers expectation of property agents too much la... What he is asking for may be fulfilled by consultants, not mere agents..
Got difference?
I thought that Property Consultant is just another title for Property Agent (looks better on the name card).
Are you a Consultant?
:confused:
What a long chunk of nonsense!
Actually the simple explanation is that cuz I'm a contract worker my loan allowance for each property is low. So that also explains that my mortgage is also low.
The other issue is my agents and banker (1 banker) has been helping me for 5 years now and they are good. So, credit goes to them for record rental and sales.
Unless the properties are fully paid up, any loan you take for it is technically a liability and hence considered a burden.
The fact that your rental income covers mortgages now does not necessarily mean that it will cover it forever.
I do admire your optimism though.... you are obviously having a good run
Sorry in case you guys mistaken I don't even have a full time job. I'm a contract worker. So my position to buy property is even tougher but I still feel having 1 property only is the toughest.
As for the interest i got, sorry guys, it was a special rate not available to public.
If such special interest rates are not available to the public then I would think it cannot be used to support the argument that buying more properties reduces "burden".
Actually the simple explanation is that cuz I'm a contract worker my loan allowance for each property is low. So that also explains that my mortgage is also low.
The other issue is my agents and banker (1 banker) has been helping me for 5 years now and they are good. So, credit goes to them for record rental and sales.
And also you rent out the maid's room in your properties to maximise yield. :cool:
Actually the simple explanation is that cuz I'm a contract worker my loan allowance for each property is low. So that also explains that my mortgage is also low.
The other issue is my agents and banker (1 banker) has been helping me for 5 years now and they are good. So, credit goes to them for record rental and sales.
0.8% fixed for 3 years is certainly a Very Very Good rate. Even bank VPs can't get these rates for themselves much less even offer them to customers. You better hold on to your contacts.
.... I think she mistook 80bps spread as fixed rate for 3 yrs. :cool:
Got difference?
I thought that Property Consultant is just another title for Property Agent (looks better on the name card).
Are you a Consultant?
:confused:
Some has the title but lack the expertise or professionalism. I am neither. But con and insult I can...
.... I think she mistook 80bps spread as fixed rate for 3 yrs. :cool:
If so I declare this the biggest joke of the century of this forum...because I have a lower spread and its for thereafter somemore....
Actually the simple explanation is that cuz I'm a contract worker my loan allowance for each property is low. So that also explains that my mortgage is also low.
The other issue is my agents and banker (1 banker) has been helping me for 5 years now and they are good. So, credit goes to them for record rental and sales.
Forgive me.. I am trying to understand you better.
When you say loan "allowance", I take it you mean loan quantum. Meaning you took a lower loan because you put in more cash... am I right so far..?
So what you are saying is that your banker offers you lower interest because you took less loan? Do you mean that if you were to take a bigger loan your interest will be conversely higher?
.... I think she mistook 80bps spread as fixed rate for 3 yrs. :cool:
Profile says it's a "he" (gender:Male). :rolleyes:
Hello administrator, can we have more options: Male/female/not sure/troll
Dots...
"trustworthy estate agent and personal banker"
Do these exist??? :tsk-tsk:
In my experience, estate agents and bankers work to their own advantage and not yours (unless they are your family or close friends). Their agenda seems to be to maximise commissions and profits for themselves.
So-called financial planners who have come to see me and after I have given them the break-down of my finances, they have vanished into thin air and not contacted me. Sigh....I am obviously a poor prospect to them....prospect of earning commissions not good, therefore not worth to be their valued client. :ashamed1:
bankers are paid by bank, they work for bank's profit , so why should they work for your benefit? they are there only to facilitate if you need loan. Estate agent is there to work for the best pay master. They work without a salary and take risk to be in the profession. Naturally they have to work and look for the commission to take care of their family and put food on the table also.... nothing wrg if everything is done ethically.
In this world, if u want the best advice and services, be prepared to pay. Good thing cannot be cheap, and cheap thing cannot be the best. U try pay good experienced financial advisers a fee to advice u lah, if u are not asking them to squeeze water from stones, i m sure u can benefit from some ideas they have.
In this world, if u want the best advice and services, be prepared to pay. Good thing cannot be cheap, and cheap thing cannot be the best. U try pay good experienced financial advisers a fee to advice u lah, if u are not asking them to squeeze water from stones, i m sure u can benefit from some ideas they have.
How to know if what you are going to pay is worth it? If they advise you inappropriately, then you lose the fee plus the money you invested.
Forgive me.. I am trying to understand you better.
When you say loan "allowance", I take it you mean loan quantum. Meaning you took a lower loan because you put in more cash... am I right so far..?
So what you are saying is that your banker offers you lower interest because you took less loan? Do you mean that if you were to take a bigger loan your interest will be conversely higher?
Either you are being extremely patient or extremely sarcastic.... Lol
How to know if what you are going to pay is worth it? If they advise you inappropriately, then you lose the fee plus the money you invested.
ahhhh i know how to solve your problem. You can go to university , take a 4 year program in Finance or banking , so you can have a good insight of how thing work, then you can make sure you give yourself the best advice.
i m sure the parents of the advisers, banker, property agent didnt raise their children for 21 years so that they work for your benefit, when you dont pay their salary, find house/buyers for you when you feel sucky when you pay them commission, or for financial advisers whom studied many year for their finance degree and pass all the industry qualification whom cant be paid a fee for analysising for you your situation nor can he be paid a commission for providing an solution for you.
similarly while u consider if it worth it to pay the consultant, the other banker/estate agent/consultant also need to gauge if its worth their time to serve you. Cos some of them are not paid a fixed salary and need to serve pple whom are willing to pay for their time and expertise to help them solve their problems.
to answer your question, when you take a taxi, how you know if the taxi drive will take the shortest route or drive you there safely without accident? so if you are not sure, y still board the taxi?
i can only conclude , take a leap of faith. Ask for recommendations from pple whom have great advice dished out to them and not be afraid of paying quality fee for quality advice. Go see cancer doc, pay sky fee also dont guarantee 100% cure, y see financial adviser expect them to predict the future for u?
Profile says it's a "he" (gender:Male). :rolleyes:
Hello administrator, can we have more options: Male/female/not sure/troll
Great! You made me laugh today. Thanks :ashamed1:
i can only conclude , take a leap of faith. Ask for recommendations from pple whom have great advice dished out to them and not be afraid of paying quality fee for quality advice. Go see cancer doc, pay sky fee also dont guarantee 100% cure, y see financial adviser expect them to predict the future for u?
:beats-me-man:
Thanks. :jump-for-joy:
Actually cancer doc has quite a good position. His/her patients expect to die. So if they live for a reasonable period of time, they are grateful. If they die, too bad....after all that is expected in their condition. For a lot of cancers, treatment can only buy them more time....but not a cure.
:beats-me-man:
Thanks. :jump-for-joy:
Actually cancer doc has quite a good position. His/her patients expect to die. So if they live for a reasonable period of time, they are grateful. If they die, too bad....after all that is expected in their condition. For a lot of cancers, treatment can only buy them more time....but not a cure.
seriously? cancer treatment can go up to 100k a year leh for the medium, comfortable version. after pay 100k + still die how to be grateful. only will think if the Doc got cock it up or not and is the death of the loved ones due to the negliance of the doc and want to sue the doc. some cancer patient die because the growth, spreading of cancer happens in other area get un-diagnosed untill its too late. so can still be grateful?
better dont say anymore, later u hate my guts. i think i have over stayed my welcome. Anyway i shall not impost my values on you. Its your option of preference and provocative of choice how you want to treat bankers, estate agents and financial consultants and anyone whom is paid a commission. i rest my case
seriously? cancer treatment can go up to 100k a year leh for the medium, comfortable version. after pay 100k + still die how to be grateful. only will think if the Doc got cock it up or not and is the death of the loved ones due to the negliance of the doc and want to sue the doc. some cancer patient die because the growth, spreading of cancer happens in other area get un-diagnosed untill its too late. so can still be grateful?
better dont say anymore, later u hate my guts. i think i have over stayed my welcome. Anyway i shall not impost my values on you. Its your option of preference and provocative of choice how you want to treat bankers, estate agents and financial consultants and anyone whom is paid a commission. i rest my case
Good morning. No I won't hate your guts. This is a forum and we are here to share and provoke thoughts and throw remarks/suggestions even it's outside our usual comfort zone with face-to-face encounters. tcss.....;)
If you expect cancer doc to cure cancer, then I am afraid I have to tame that expectation. Some cancers have good chance of a "cure" but many cancers do not. Each cancer in each person is unique and a treatment that works for some people may not work in other people. Most cancers can be "controlled" for a period of time with the treatments but in many cases, it will come back again. The treatments are improving all the time but the R&D is expensive, hence the high price tag. The 100K plus treatments are usually for targetted therapy, only certain types of cancer are suitable. They may not control the cancer indefinitely as after a while the cancer cells may evolve strategies to get around the drug (after all it is a basic paradigm - survival of the fittest and the cancer cell is a living thing just like your own body cells except that it grows a lot faster than your own body cells and can therefore have higher chance of mutating and ending up with a clone that is resistant to the cancer treatment). The cancer doc is also a salesman, he will try to "sell" you his treatment and of course he will paint an optimistic picture. If he paints a pessimistic picture, you will have no confidence and go and seek another opinion until you find another doc who claims he can give you better results. But the reality is that he cannot 100% guarantee anything (as you have admitted earlier). Yes you are absolutely right. Buying any service be it medical treatment, property consultancy, banking, accounting, ride in a taxi etc etc is a leap of faith. I am not denying that people who provide services should be paid, of course they should. But bemoaning the fact that it is difficult to find a service provider in certain areas who would perform their job ethically. It's a cut-throat world amongst bankers, estate agents/consultants, even doctors.....and we have to tread carefully to find one who won't anyhow fleece us.
At the end of the day, caveat emptor. We have to do some research on our own to double check on our service providers. Thank you all for contributing to this forum. We can learn from one another but we have to try and distinguish the wood from the trees.
Cheers bro/sis! :47:
Note that I have used male gender for the "doctor" but this is not intended to be sexist, it's for convenience. Apologies for anyone who might be offended.
And by the way, I think it would be quite difficult to sue a cancer doc if the patient dies. After all, cancer is considered a "terminal" illness. As long as the treatment given is not completely off track, it will be difficult to substantiate the claim that it is a "wrong" treatment. Remember medical litigation costs are v. expensive for the consumer. The docs have their medical insurance to defray the costs but the consumer does not.
:beats-me-man:
Thanks. :jump-for-joy:
Actually cancer doc has quite a good position. His/her patients expect to die. So if they live for a reasonable period of time, they are grateful. If they die, too bad....after all that is expected in their condition. For a lot of cancers, treatment can only buy them more time....but not a cure.Until such time when cancer can be treated like high cholesterol or even better a common cold. Medical advancement in the area of cancer is making steady but terribly slow progress. :rolleyes:
Until such time when cancer can be treated like high cholesterol or even better a common cold. Medical advancement in the area of cancer is making steady but terribly slow progress. :rolleyes:
The medications given for a common cold are for controlling symptoms. There is no "cure" for common cold that can kill the common cold virus. It is your own body that deals with the virus, not the drugs.
High cholesterol also has no "cure". The drugs are for controlling the cholesterol level and have to be taken indefinitely.
Many apologies to bros/sis if my posts are provocative. :sick:
But I will not give up and go away.
("troll extraordinaire") :D
The medications given for a common cold are for controlling symptoms. There is no "cure" for common cold that can kill the common cold virus. It is your own body that deals with the virus, not the drugs.
High cholesterol also has no "cure". The drugs are for controlling the cholesterol level and have to be taken indefinitely.
Many apologies to bros/sis if my posts are provocative. :sick:
But I will not give up and go away.
("troll extraordinaire") :DI never suggested that drugs can cure high cholesterol but it certain can control and given a choice between dying by cancer or surviving cancer through long term medication, its a pretty easy choice to make... :47:
I never suggested that drugs can cure high cholesterol but it certain can control and given a choice between dying by cancer or surviving cancer through long term medication, its a pretty easy choice to make... :47:
Yes you are right. Make sure your medical insurance covers long term cancer treatments as more choices will be coming up in the pipeline in the future. But like cholesterol treatments, some may be needed to be taken indefinitely (until such time as the cancer becomes resistant to the drug). The progress in cancer treatment is not progressing as slowly as you think.
(btw I am not an oncologist).
Until such time when cancer can be treated like high cholesterol or even better a common cold. Medical advancement in the area of cancer is making steady but terribly slow progress. :rolleyes:
while i agree that advancement is slow, there are some cancer vaccines can reduce the disease into a chronic ailment. however, the costs of cancer treatment is exorbitant nowadays. i remember a conversation with a lung oncologists.
Me: "what happens, if one day, you contract lung cancer? how would you treat it?"
Dr: "i won't go for treatment cos' there is no cure to it. instead of spending money to extend life for a few more months, might as well leave it to my loved ones"
Me: "........."
while i agree that advancement is slow, there are some cancer vaccines can reduce the disease into a chronic ailment. however, the costs of cancer treatment is exorbitant nowadays. i remember a conversation with a lung oncologists.
Me: "what happens, if one day, you contract lung cancer? how would you treat it?"
Dr: "i won't go for treatment cos' there is no cure to it. instead of spending money to extend life for a few more months, might as well leave it to my loved ones"
Me: "........."Yup... a gentle reminder that we are all human beings after all...
Coming back to the thread... property as a retirement asset is definitely the way to go... Lol! :47:
haha, this was a good digression though. well, after seeing Singapore climb to the 9th spot on the "top 10 most expensive cities to live in" list, i'm starting to consider whether to retire in malaysia and while depending on rental income to sustain my lifestyle
property via rental income is definitely one of the safest retirement option..
:D
if you want a good gain, then buy property when it is at the low la..
you can't gain much when property price is so high up there...
buttercarp
13-04-12, 10:08
The medications given for a common cold are for controlling symptoms. There is no "cure" for common cold that can kill the common cold virus. It is your own body that deals with the virus, not the drugs.
High cholesterol also has no "cure". The drugs are for controlling the cholesterol level and have to be taken indefinitely.
Many apologies to bros/sis if my posts are provocative. :sick:
But I will not give up and go away.
("troll extraordinaire") :D
Chiaberry..... from your answer, I am very convinced that you are a doctor.
If you are not a doctor, then perhaps you were a doctor.
phantom_opera
13-04-12, 11:01
The answer is to retire at Vilcabamba while renting out your properties in SG, no worries for cancer :cool:
The answer is to retire at Vilcabamba while renting out your properties in SG, no worries for cancer :cool:
Vilcabamba????
So many people are waiting for correction.The correction has to be a major one otherwise a 5-10% does not favour those who sold their properties recently and rent a place.
property via rental income is definitely one of the safest retirement option..
:D
if you want a good gain, then buy property when it is at the low la..
you can't gain much when property price is so high up there...
So many people are waiting for correction.The correction has to be a major one otherwise a 5-10% does not favour those who sold their properties recently and rent a place.
to be honest, the correction will not be big..
meanwhile, i am sourcing for alternative solution to tide over these 5-10 years.. :D
Chiaberry..... from your answer, I am very convinced that you are a doctor.
If you are not a doctor, then perhaps you were a doctor.
Must be doctor meh. Nurse cannot? What he stated is common knowledge common as the common cold... Well maybe you dont have many 'sick' friends. ;-)
seriously? cancer treatment can go up to 100k a year leh for the medium, comfortable version. after pay 100k + still die how to be grateful. only will think if the Doc got cock it up or not and is the death of the loved ones due to the negliance of the doc and want to sue the doc. some cancer patient die because the growth, spreading of cancer happens in other area get un-diagnosed untill its too late. so can still be grateful?
better dont say anymore, later u hate my guts. i think i have over stayed my welcome. Anyway i shall not impost my values on you. Its your option of preference and provocative of choice how you want to treat bankers, estate agents and financial consultants and anyone whom is paid a commission. i rest my case
Middlemen, as the namesake suggests, are never a necessity. They are there as an option for people who wanna save time. To them time is money. Either that or plain lazy. Cab? No need, can walk if got time and energy. Consultant/agent/broker? No need if can do my own due diligence and research. Doc? No need if I eat and live well in the first place. If even after that get cancer, it is predestined.
property via rental income is definitely one of the safest retirement option..
:D
if you want a good gain, then buy property when it is at the low la..
you can't gain much when property price is so high up there...
How to know when it is at the LOW? Only in hindsight can we be sure.......When it starts to go down, we wait for it to go lower.....lower.....lower and many fear to jump in. However when it turns round, we don't realise it until it is UP again, no longer at the LOW.
I hope you are right about rental income. Or else there will be quite a significant number of ageing/retiring Singaporeans who won't have enough for retirement. At the moment, I fear that rentals may not keep up with inflation.
Must be doctor meh. Nurse cannot? What he stated is common knowledge common as the common cold... Well maybe you dont have many 'sick' friends. ;-)
Much of what I have stated is common knowledge.
I thought I would bring down the high expectations of cancer docs to a more realistic level. I don't like to see people selling their house chasing after a "cure" for cancer when there isn't any guarantee.
And I fully empathize with that story of the doc's own stand on cancer treatment. One of my friends was a cancer doc. When he found out he himself had cancer, he also opted for no treatment. I am not trolling here. It is a real case.
buttercarp
13-04-12, 13:45
Must be doctor meh. Nurse cannot? What he stated is common knowledge common as the common cold... Well maybe you dont have many 'sick' friends. ;-)
She already said she is not a nurse.
Anyway.... nevermind. What she does is not relevant.
Most doctors don't like to identify themselves.
Oic.... so you and her got a lot of sick friends!:D
ikan bilis
13-04-12, 13:50
How to know when it is at the LOW? Only in hindsight can we be sure.......When it starts to go down, we wait for it to go lower.....lower.....lower and many fear to jump in. However when it turns round, we don't realise it until it is UP again, no longer at the LOW.
I hope you are right about rental income. Or else there will be quite a significant number of ageing/retiring Singaporeans who won't have enough for retirement. At the moment, I fear that rentals may not keep up with inflation.
who would know??... with the amount of population increase during past few years, price might never come back to current market price forever...
and, now hor, the resale activites look like coming back again... ;)
Rosegarden
13-04-12, 14:39
...One of my friends was a cancer doc. When he found out he himself had cancer, he also opted for no treatment. I am not trolling here. It is a real case.
Must have been a sad man going to work everyday selling something he himself didn't believe in.
Must have been a sad man going to work everyday selling something he himself didn't believe in.
No one should be denied treatment cos its cost a lot. The risk can always be transferred for a small premium.
i suspect he denies treatment cannot be because of $$$. i suspect its cause he knows the odds and decided to spend the remaining time he had left with the pple he loves.
Middlemen, as the namesake suggests, are never a necessity. They are there as an option for people who wanna save time. To them time is money. Either that or plain lazy. Cab? No need, can walk if got time and energy. Consultant/agent/broker? No need if can do my own due diligence and research. Doc? No need if I eat and live well in the first place. If even after that get cancer, it is predestined.
wow bro, u even more extreme. u go holiday swim out of singapore ah?
ya lah, cos we cant be ace of all trades, so we pay middle man whom can do it better lah. everything no need the world wont rotate leh.
Must have been a sad man going to work everyday selling something he himself didn't believe in.
let's be clear on this - oncologists do not sell cures and anyone (like a certain private oncologist) who promises otherwise is plain unscrupulous. they manage the treat and manage the symptoms to provide a better quality of life and/or longer survival period for patients. it doesn't mean that they don't believe in what they are doing, when they choose not to treat themselves. it is a personal choice and the financial burden is borne by the loved ones usually.
Rosegarden
13-04-12, 15:04
....If you expect cancer doc to cure cancer, then I am afraid I have to tame that expectation. Some cancers have good chance of a "cure" but many cancers do not. ...
By the way, for the case of our PM, is it a "buying time" case or a "cured" case? Was it an easy to cure type of cancer, needed lots of money to cure type, or simply a miracle?
By the way, for the case of our PM, is it a "buying time" case or a "cured" case? Was it an easy to cure type of cancer, needed lots of money to cure type, or simply a miracle?
our PM's cured. remember at the same time our ex-president also contracted cancer? one had a high grade cancer type that responses well to chemo while the other had a low grade that isn't as aggressive but doesn't respond to chemo.
wow bro, u even more extreme. u go holiday swim out of singapore ah?
ya lah, cos we cant be ace of all trades, so we pay middle man whom can do it better lah. everything no need the world wont rotate leh.
Since when is holiday a necessity. You can use more relevant examples like if you need to eat rice you cant import them yourself. There. ;-) notice I said weed out the middlemen. Not the supplier.
Must have been a sad man going to work everyday selling something he himself didn't believe in.
Ever wondered why Lasik doc own self still wear glasses?
Since when is holiday a necessity. You can use more relevant examples like if you need to eat rice you cant import them yourself. There. ;-) notice I said weed out the middlemen. Not the supplier.
i actually quoted many examples but then decided not to post ahahaha. Because we will end up wasting more time writing about it right? i lost the battle when u say cab no need, got time n energy can walk.I mean how to win that?
i actually quoted many examples but then decided not to post ahahaha. Because we will end up wasting more time writing about it right? i lost the battle when u say cab no need, got time n energy can walk.I mean how to win that?
Kekeke v sign ;-p
And I fully empathize with that story of the doc's own stand on cancer treatment. One of my friends was a cancer doc. When he found out he himself had cancer, he also opted for no treatment. I am not trolling here. It is a real case.
having treatment might actually worsen your health & shorten lifespan..
after all, the world talks about $$...medical industry is one big $$$ industry
No one should be denied treatment cos its cost a lot. The risk can always be transferred for a small premium.
i suspect he denies treatment cannot be because of $$$. i suspect its cause he knows the odds and decided to spend the remaining time he had left with the pple he loves.
you are right.
By the way, for the case of our PM, is it a "buying time" case or a "cured" case? Was it an easy to cure type of cancer, needed lots of money to cure type, or simply a miracle?
I don't think anyone involved in the case would be prepared to comment because of patient confidentiality. Whether or not he is the PM or not, healthcare professionals are duty-bound not to make known any personal details to anybody apart from the patient, his/her relatives and the other healthcare professionals who are directly involved in the patient's care. :tsk-tsk:
having treatment might actually worsen your health & shorten lifespan..
after all, the world talks about $$...medical industry is one big $$$ industry
you are right.
Agree with you on both counts.
It is a disturbing thought but the side effects of any treatment could sometimes be worse than the disease itself. Even the drugs for lowering cholesterol have some concerns about their long-term safety. And as for viral illnesses, some of the deaths during the SARS period may have been due to complications of the anti-viral treatment rather than the effect of the virus itself. There was so much panic about this condition that rather high doses of the anti-viral drugs were administered to patients and it was in some cases uncharted territory.
buttercarp
13-04-12, 22:32
Ever wondered why Lasik doc own self still wear glasses?
Cos if anything goes wrong with his eyes, he can't perform lasik on anyone anymore.
Cos if anything goes wrong with his eyes, he can't perform lasik on anyone anymore.
no la..
i read somewhere that lasik will not give you 100% perfect eyesight..
still got slight effect somewhere...
:)
Rosegarden
13-04-12, 22:50
I don't think anyone involved in the case would be prepared to comment because of patient confidentiality. Whether or not he is the PM or not, healthcare professionals are duty-bound not to make known any personal details to anybody apart from the patient, his/her relatives and the other healthcare professionals who are directly involved in the patient's care. :tsk-tsk:
You are assuming that I am soliciting insider info.
Are you any of the above mentioned people?
If not, why can't one make a medical comment,educated guess, or even pure speculation. It's not illegal you know.
Are you a civil servant?
no la..
i read somewhere that lasik will not give you 100% perfect eyesight..
still got slight effect somewhere...
:)
Mine done for 17yrs liao. So far so good...
http://www.1cure4cancer.com/
Read this to have an insight and 'myth' about cancer.
Not promoting the website but personally I have recommended my relatives/friends to this website and the benefits of eating Apricot seed. Stage 2 and 3 cancer patients have miraculously cured.
Mine done for 17yrs liao. So far so good...Your lasik is not the same as the ones conducted today? Think its the one that requires 3 days to 2 weeks of heal time? Those done today is to cut the cornea and expose the inside with 'cold' laser. Heal time is about 1 day only...
Your lasik is not the same as the ones conducted today? Think its the one that requires 3 days to 2 weeks of heal time? Those done today is to cut the cornea and expose the inside with 'cold' laser. Heal time is about 1 day only...
Mine was corneal flap technique. Cut thin flap of cornea leaving on a bit of hinge on side, lift up, use hot laser to sculpt, close back and heal. Less exposed surface supposed to heal better. I never keep track of the new techniques after that... Mine was by Jerry Tan one of the best eye surgeons then...
Fortunately i do not have this issue as I have 6/6 vision. My mum has done cornea transplant for both eyes. It is really high tech these days. ;)
Fortunately i do not have this issue as I have 6/6 vision. My mum has done cornea transplant for both eyes. It is really high tech these days. ;)
You lucky. Must be born in 60s or very early 70s. Kids these days start near sightedness very early... Our time is tv era. After that computer era, now is iphone, smartphone and tablet era, even nearer to the eyes. I think next phase of technology is wearable just wear the viewing screen as glasses...
You lucky. Must be born in 60s or very early 70s. Kids these days start near sightedness very early... Our time is tv era. After that computer era, now is iphone, smartphone and tablet era, even nearer to the eyes. I think next phase of technology is wearable just wear the viewing screen as glasses...
I think it all has to do with genetics...
Mine was corneal flap technique. Cut thin flap of cornea leaving on a bit of hinge on side, lift up, use hot laser to sculpt, close back and heal. Less exposed surface supposed to heal better. I never keep track of the new techniques after that... Mine was by Jerry Tan one of the best eye surgeons then...
did u take a cab home after that?
http://www.1cure4cancer.com/
Read this to have an insight and 'myth' about cancer.
Not promoting the website but personally I have recommended my relatives/friends to this website and the benefits of eating Apricot seed. Stage 2 and 3 cancer patients have miraculously cured.
faster buy futures of apricot seed!!!
My kids are all wearing glasses. :doh:
You lucky. Must be born in 60s or very early 70s. Kids these days start near sightedness very early... Our time is tv era. After that computer era, now is iphone, smartphone and tablet era, even nearer to the eyes. I think next phase of technology is wearable just wear the viewing screen as glasses...
did u take a cab home after that?
Yes. Not a problem as actually could see clearly right after the op. Anyway it was one eye after another 1 or 2 weeks apart...
Straits Times today, this is the top intern pay. In fact, for female, at the age of 21, they alr got more than this pay.
Earn $7,500 as an intern?
By Kimberly Spykerman
Think office intern and the image of someone young who is poorly paid and does menial tasks comes to mind.
But that was not the case for Mr Y. Zhou, 27, who did a summer internship at an investment bank in Hong Kong in late 2010. He got a monthly stipend of about US$6,000 (S$7,500) - more than what some fulltime employees in other sectors earn here. The Singaporean was in his third year at an American university then.
buttercarp
15-04-12, 18:58
Straits Times today, this is the top intern pay. In fact, for female, at the age of 21, they alr got more than this pay.
Earn $7,500 as an intern?
By Kimberly Spykerman
Think office intern and the image of someone young who is poorly paid and does menial tasks comes to mind.
But that was not the case for Mr Y. Zhou, 27, who did a summer internship at an investment bank in Hong Kong in late 2010. He got a monthly stipend of about US$6,000 (S$7,500) - more than what some fulltime employees in other sectors earn here. The Singaporean was in his third year at an American university then.
Well, it depends on what "menial" task means :p .
Well, it depends on what "menial" task means :p .
Quite a number of intern are doing photostating and leg works, process admin work
so what is the best bet for retirement?.
cash out the gains on yhe second or first property and live in hdb ?
Straits Times today, this is the top intern pay. In fact, for female, at the age of 21, they alr got more than this pay.
Earn $7,500 as an intern?
By Kimberly Spykerman
Think office intern and the image of someone young who is poorly paid and does menial tasks comes to mind.
But that was not the case for Mr Y. Zhou, 27, who did a summer internship at an investment bank in Hong Kong in late 2010. He got a monthly stipend of about US$6,000 (S$7,500) - more than what some fulltime employees in other sectors earn here. The Singaporean was in his third year at an American university then.
Intern getting USD 6k per month? This story is not so simple.
Intern getting USD 6k per month? This story is not so simple.How so? :rolleyes:
so what is the best bet for retirement?.
cash out the gains on yhe second or first property and live in hdb ?If 2nd property is giving sufficient monthly rental yield for daily expense, then just live within that means. However, if you so decides to do something shiok shiok like spend spend spend, then cash in and downgrade that unit. Take $200k and spend spend spend lor, provided your 2nd property can downgrade further lah... :cheers5:
I don't wish to guess here but the story is quite odd. An Asian in an American university going to HK for internship and getting paid $6k per month, coupled with so much publicity.
I don't wish to guess here but the story is quite odd. An Asian in an American university going to HK for internship and getting paid $6k per month, coupled with so much publicity.
In fact, there are a good number of Singapreans are getting this
there are definitely grad getting this kind of pay but probably like the top 10%..
not many though...
:ashamed1:
anyway, our ST newspaper like to paint alot of positive & high spirit news to encourage our citizens... give alot of hope for the young & old one that they can achieve their dream goal/job etc.. :D:D
there are definitely grad getting this kind of pay but probably like the top 10%..
not many though...
:ashamed1:
anyway, our ST newspaper like to paint alot of positive & high spirit news to encourage our citizens... give alot of hope for the young & old one that they can achieve their dream goal/job etc.. :D:D
You said exactly what I wanted to say. Thumbs up
I don't wish to guess here but the story is quite odd. An Asian in an American university going to HK for internship and getting paid $6k per month, coupled with so much publicity.
Maybe white horse. Is the last name Li?
If 2nd property is giving sufficient monthly rental yield for daily expense, then just live within that means. However, if you so decides to do something shiok shiok like spend spend spend, then cash in and downgrade that unit. Take $200k and spend spend spend lor, provided your 2nd property can downgrade further lah... :cheers5:
Personally, even if I have the money, I dont find it fulfilling to spend spend spend like no tomorrow. Anyone can spend. But not everyone is able to set aside a strict and frugal budget and stick to it. Food, for example. Eat less, eat healthier, lose weight, nice figure. You spend less, better health, better looks. Its win win win.
You said exactly what I wanted to say. Thumbs up
Thanks Q :p:p
so what is the best bet for retirement?.
cash out the gains on yhe second or first property and live in hdb ?
That is something I would only do at age 65-70 maybe when I am too old to go around and enjoy condo facilities. The profit should be enough to sustain until 80 or so which is average lifespan of sg... Before that can still enjoy condo life for a good 30yrs at least. Enough liao.
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