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hovivi
14-04-12, 09:37
With a growing number of senior executives from the expatriate community leaving Singapore, some prime locations are seeing a drop in asking rentals.

Based on data compiled by The PropertyGuru, the most notable fall in median asking rental prices was seen in District 4 (Harbourfront / Telok Blangah), recording a significant 15 percent decline from a median price of S$7,900 in Q4 2011 to a median price of S$6,700 in Q1 2012. Coming in second is District 19 (Hougang / Punggol / Sengkang), which saw a 13 percent fall from a median price of S$4,000 at the end of last year to a median price of S$3,500 in Q1 2012.

In addition, asking rental prices in Districts 2 (Chinatown / Tanjong Pagar) and 18 (Pasir Ris / Tampines) both declined by eight percent while Districts 22 (Boon Lay / Jurong / Tuas) and 25 (Admiralty / Woodlands) were down seven and six percent respectively.

While the data is solely based on asking rental prices (PropertyGuru does not track actual transacted prices), the subdued expectations regarding rentals is an indication that global economic concerns are taking their toll on the market. According to a source, companies are either hesitant to hire or are holding back on employment packages for their existing foreign staff. *

Tejaswi Chunduri, Regional Analyst at PropertyGuru, said the “prime districts might be largely affected as the rental market here is dominated by expats who come to Singapore on expatriate packages with hefty housing allowances from MNCs (multinational companies).”

She noted that housing allowances, which form part of the expatriate packages for foreigners, are one of the major drivers of Singapore’s rental market, particularly in the luxury segment, but this has now changed with the drop in expat numbers.

“It was a different story last year,” according to Ella Sherman, a property consultant with Premiere Realty, who told The PropertyGuru that there were a fair number of expats relocating here with high rental allowances just twelve months ago.

“However, it appears that many major corporates, most notably the banking and finance sector, have reduced their housing allowances and staff are having to take personal leases,” she noted.

Commenting on the 15 percent drop in asking rentals seen in District 4, Sherman said that expatriates were the main drivers of growth in the area, particularly in Sentosa. However, the decrease in rental values is another sign that “there are more expatriates leaving than coming in”.

The strict immigration policies implemented by the government last year may be another reason behind the falling prices, with the population growing at a slower pace.

“At the same time, with a large supply of completed homes attaining their TOP (Temporary Occupation Permit) this year, those who were renting can now start occupying their places. This affects demand in the rental market and hence prices,” according to Chunduri.

However, not all the districts are seeing price falls, with some faring better. In fact, District 9 (Orchard / River Valley) has seen a strong 14 percent rise in rentals, from a median price of S$6,400 in Q4 2011 to a median price of S$7,300 in Q1 2012.

Sherman explained that this may be due to the sizeable number of new developments in Orchard Road which has left renters “spoilt for choice”. They also offer a convenient location, she added, as many residents prefer to live near the CBD to avoid the hassle of traffic jams during peak hours.

She was also quick to note that foreign renters remain a significant player in the rental market and she still receives queries, mostly from Americans, the British and Australians.

On the other hand, European interest has stalled. “This time last year I had a steady flow of queries from Europeans,” she noted. “But they're very quiet at the moment. I assume the dire economic issues with the Eurozone have resulted in European companies keeping their costs down and not seconding as many staff overseas for now.”

Moving forward, Sherman predicts that if expats continue to lose their jobs and are repatriated back home, “the rental market will be negatively impacted”.

“The same goes for the decline in the numbers of expatriates being sent on assignment to Singapore,” she added.

minority
14-04-12, 10:17
This article is from where?

carbuncle
14-04-12, 10:32
This article is from where?
Propguru....

radha08
14-04-12, 12:47
Propguru....

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/4/32791/loss-of-foreign-talent-affecting-private-property-

DC33_2008
14-04-12, 13:09
It boils down to location even within the same district.

hovivi
14-04-12, 16:05
I feel D4 decline is an indication of things to come due to massive completions from 2012

Im this case Reflection 1000+ units TOP'ed in Dec

DC33_2008
14-04-12, 17:54
Reflection is only convenient to certain group of people. Those with cars or use a lot of the taxis. Expats use bus or trains may not have the $ capability to rent.
I feel D4 decline is an indication of things to come due to massive completions from 2012

Im this case Reflection 1000+ units TOP'ed in Dec

DKSG
14-04-12, 20:00
From my own personal observations, rental has indeed been inching downwards.

The reason is simple : There are more units TOP-ing compared to additional number of expats coming to Singapore.

With the cheong-ing in 2008-2010, its time people realise that vacancy rates will start to climb! I wonder who can provide this simple information :

Number of units receiving TOP last quarter vs Net number of expats added to Singapore.

With this, I think it will be obvious that rental market in this and next quarter is going to be strained. Just look at some recent TOP ones like One Devon. After 4-5 months, I think it is still more than 70% empty.

Soon they will have to lower their prices and try to poach the tenants from nearby condos ( dont need me to name them right?).

We shall wait and see if government is really acting consistently with their promises of fewer expats. We cannot discount the fact that after a few months, they open the floodgate again! And let our population hit 7 million !

Good Luck!
DKSG
PS : Me not vested or looking for vested (at this moment - haha!).

DKSG
14-04-12, 20:02
Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?

Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!

minority
14-04-12, 23:39
Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?

Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!

Well some insist theirs are special. Cox got malls n condo n mrt. So won't happen!

teddybear
15-04-12, 00:27
I shared this before, but many people say I sour grapes! They say OCR's price will rise to become no difference from CCR, where got such difference one? In fact, many people will prefer living in OCR to be beside HDB flats, the malls there are also so cosy (i.e. packed and cramped so that they can touch here touch there for free) etc etc. Somebody say he can drive from West Coast to Raffles Place within 10 mins! :doh:

I am afraid your sharing will be left to deaf ears. Never mind, at least we already shared! :p



Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?

Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!

new2mondrian
15-04-12, 00:35
I shared this before, but many people say I sour grapes! They say OCR's price will rise to become no difference from CCR, where got such difference one? In fact, many people will prefer living in OCR to be beside HDB flats, the malls there are also so cosy (i.e. packed and cramped so that they can touch here touch there for free) etc etc. Somebody say he can drive from West Coast to Raffles Place within 10 mins! :doh:

I am afraid your sharing will be left to deaf ears. Never mind, at least we already shared! :p

Generally agree, though also depends on which parts of the CCR you are talking about. Bt Timah stretch always kena jammed big time. Driving from shelford area to cityhall took me 35mins this morning, even on a Sat! Huge traffic congestion... Unbelievable...

Poloclub
15-04-12, 01:44
I shared this before, but many people say I sour grapes! They say OCR's price will rise to become no difference from CCR, where got such difference one? In fact, many people will prefer living in OCR to be beside HDB flats, the malls there are also so cosy (i.e. packed and cramped so that they can touch here touch there for free) etc etc. Somebody say he can drive from West Coast to Raffles Place within 10 mins! :doh:

I am afraid your sharing will be left to deaf ears. Never mind, at least we already shared! :p

West coast to raffles place in10 mins? Who said that?

hyenergix
15-04-12, 07:42
West coast to raffles place in10 mins? Who said that?

It depends on how aggressive you drive, the route and it must be off-peak before 7.30am or after 7.30pm along the stretch. I wasn't the person to state the 10 min, but let me try to discuss this based on my driving.

Distance from Clementi Road junction at West Coast is about 11 km (measured on map) to Raffles Place MRT using West Coast Highway. If you can manage just above 60km/h on average, it takes about 10 min. To be safe, I would put 15 min for start of journey before 7am.

If the route is to AYE to Raffles Place, the distance would be 12 km. Assuming start of journey before 7am, 10 min might be achievable. The speed from West Coast to end of AYE near Keppel can be done way above 100 km/h during off-peak.

carbuncle
15-04-12, 11:50
West coast to raffles place in10 mins? Who said that?
Notwithstanding jams and what not on the expressway, it seems whoever think is possible conveniently forgot there are traffic lights at both ends of route... Unless the stay by the roadside of the expressway...

carbuncle
15-04-12, 11:52
Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?

Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!
My studio 500sf beside city square mall was indeed rented for 2k in 2008....

carbuncle
15-04-12, 11:58
From my own personal observations, rental has indeed been inching downwards.

The reason is simple : There are more units TOP-ing compared to additional number of expats coming to Singapore.

With the cheong-ing in 2008-2010, its time people realise that vacancy rates will start to climb! I wonder who can provide this simple information :

Number of units receiving TOP last quarter vs Net number of expats added to Singapore.

With this, I think it will be obvious that rental market in this and next quarter is going to be strained. Just look at some recent TOP ones like One Devon. After 4-5 months, I think it is still more than 70% empty.

Soon they will have to lower their prices and try to poach the tenants from nearby condos ( dont need me to name them right?).

We shall wait and see if government is really acting consistently with their promises of fewer expats. We cannot discount the fact that after a few months, they open the floodgate again! And let our population hit 7 million !

Good Luck!
DKSG
PS : Me not vested or looking for vested (at this moment - haha!).
Good post bro. Any reason to believe the FT floodgates will reopen soon?

flagship74
15-04-12, 12:05
West coast to raffles place in10 mins? Who said that?
Possible..y not? take the pasir panjang flyover..u reach RP within sub 10min:D

Juniper
15-04-12, 12:05
Notwithstanding jams and what not on the expressway, it seems whoever think is possible conveniently forgot there are traffic lights at both ends of route... Unless the stay by the roadside of the expressway...

If you are living at Varsity Park, you can actually get to Raffles Place in around 15 mins.

Quickest way is AYE CTE exit at Merchant Road, which will take you around 10-15mins even during morning traffic.

The other option (without ERP) is West Coast highway, AYE (at Keppel Flyover), Lower Delta Road, Jalan Bukit Merah, CTE, exit Merchant Road.

radha08
15-04-12, 14:39
Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?

Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!

yes captain i hear you loud n clear but NOT the tens of thousands of people flocking to buy in punggol...:scared-5:

Xan
15-04-12, 15:50
Another thing about rentals.

If you are buying a Punggol unit (or similar) in hope of renting it out, please think very very hard again and again.

When times are good, there is shortage, then its ok.

When times are bad, when units in Central starts to slash prices, u maybe left without a tenant for a loooong time.

It is easy for Central to slash prices, say $2K for studio in town! Or even $1.5K. Got rental better than no rentals right ?

By then, those OCR can only fight back with ... $800 ?


Think my friends, think!

DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool

PS : I know this because I kanna before, so sharing this with you --> for FOC!

Lets do some math here:
A mm in CCR, probably cost ard 9xxk to 1 mil (eg espada), after 40% payment, outstanding loan left 600K, monthly instalment 2.4k(with 30 yr tenure, 1.1% interest rate)

A mm in OCR (use WT since you mention punggol) cost ard 570k, after 40% payment, outstanding loan 340k, monthly instalment ($800 with 30 yr tenure, 1.1 interest rate)

If go by your logic, CCR mm rental slash price until 2K, then CCR MM unit owner has a deficit of: 2k(rental) - 2.4k (installment) = -$400.
and OCR mm rental slash until $800 per month. then OCR mm owner ($800 instalment -800 rental = $0, no deficit)

Please enlighten me which one more fatal in bad times.

PS: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you mentioned, you kenna before, I would be very interested to know which project you are vested before and which one you kenna before. I'm curious because I never kenna before and I cash out a few times from OCR with some gain. Thanks in advance for your views. Hope to learn from each other.

carbuncle
15-04-12, 16:05
Lets do some math here:
A mm in CCR, probably cost ard 9xxk to 1 mil (eg espada), after 40% payment, outstanding loan left 600K, monthly instalment 2.4k(with 30 yr tenure, 1.1% interest rate)

A mm in OCR (use WT since you mention punggol) cost ard 570k, after 40% payment, outstanding loan 340k, monthly instalment ($800 with 30 yr tenure, 1.1 interest rate)

If go by your logic, CCR mm rental slash price until 2K, then CCR MM unit owner has a deficit of: 2k(rental) - 2.4k (installment) = -$400.
and OCR mm rental slash until $800 per month. then OCR mm owner ($800 instalment -800 rental = $0, no deficit)

Please enlighten me which one more fatal in bad times.

PS: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you mentioned, you kenna before, I would be very interested to know which project you are vested before and which one you kenna before. I'm curious because I never kenna before and I cash out a few times from OCR with some gain. Thanks in advance for your views. Hope to learn from each other.
Hey. You forgot to add that the downpayment for 1 CCR can buy 2 OCR MM, and the monthly installment for that 1 CCR can pay for 3 OCR ones

ikan bilis
15-04-12, 16:06
if $800 monthly instalment for 340K loan, then shouldn't it be <S$1.6K for 600K loan ??...

my nokia phone calculator gives $1109 for 340K loan, and $1958 for 600K loan...

Xan
15-04-12, 16:16
Hey. You forgot to add that the downpayment for 1 CCR can buy 2 OCR MM, and the monthly installment for that 1 CCR can pay for 3 OCR ones

No worries. I can forgo that.
I am trying to do a fair comparison between the two (CCR vs OCR mm).
With interest rate, tenure, downpayment all remain constant, and also assuming both in bad times. (But dont come and tell me CCR confirm can rent out in bad times while OCR cannot because it is ulu)

Btw whats the definition of ulu?
Ulu to me is somewhere when it is not accessible/reachable by public transport.
(Example, Jalan Tua Kong at siglap to me is ulu because it is too deep in to the extent I need to walk 10 mins to reach a bus stop.)
Maybe to some people, OCR is ulu and only CCR or RCR is not ulu, without even studying the location. Diff people have different definition of ulu.

Since everyone here keep saying if CCR rental slash, then OCR will be even more jialat.
But the question is, Did we do our due diligence in calculating the math?

Xan
15-04-12, 16:17
if $800 monthly instalment for 340K loan, then shouldn't it be <S$1.6K for 600K loan ??...

my nokia phone calculator gives $1109 for 340K loan, and $1958 for 600K loan...

I dont know how you get that figure, but I'm paying ard $800 for my monthly installment for WT mm. Or probably I cannot use 570K for mm in WT. In actual fact, I'm paying 550K for WT after all the rebates.
But nvm, 550k or 570k to me not much diff.

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 16:18
Did you see massive jam in the morning from the bridge all the way to the entrance from NUS? Fortunately, I was travelling in the opposite direction.
If you are living at Varsity Park, you can actually get to Raffles Place in around 15 mins.

Quickest way is AYE CTE exit at Merchant Road, which will take you around 10-15mins even during morning traffic.

The other option (without ERP) is West Coast highway, AYE (at Keppel Flyover), Lower Delta Road, Jalan Bukit Merah, CTE, exit Merchant Road.

Xan
15-04-12, 16:22
if $800 monthly instalment for 340K loan, then shouldn't it be <S$1.6K for 600K loan ??...

my nokia phone calculator gives $1109 for 340K loan, and $1958 for 600K loan...

Dont forget you cannot interpolate by this way.
The more loan you borrow, the more interest amt you incurred.

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 16:37
Does it mean rental of a 4HDB at nearby location may become $800? Which will tenant choose?
Lets do some math here:
A mm in CCR, probably cost ard 9xxk to 1 mil (eg espada), after 40% payment, outstanding loan left 600K, monthly instalment 2.4k(with 30 yr tenure, 1.1% interest rate)

A mm in OCR (use WT since you mention punggol) cost ard 570k, after 40% payment, outstanding loan 340k, monthly instalment ($800 with 30 yr tenure, 1.1 interest rate)

If go by your logic, CCR mm rental slash price until 2K, then CCR MM unit owner has a deficit of: 2k(rental) - 2.4k (installment) = -$400.
and OCR mm rental slash until $800 per month. then OCR mm owner ($800 instalment -800 rental = $0, no deficit)

Please enlighten me which one more fatal in bad times.

PS: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you mentioned, you kenna before, I would be very interested to know which project you are vested before and which one you kenna before. I'm curious because I never kenna before and I cash out a few times from OCR with some gain. Thanks in advance for your views. Hope to learn from each other.

Xan
15-04-12, 16:41
Anyway, whether it is 2k installment or 2.4k installment for CCR is not the main point.
The main point is, the monthly installment for an CCR is twice the amt of OCR.
Imagine in bad times, when both CCR and OCR cannot rent out, CCR owners need to pay 2k installment every mth while OCR owners need to pay ard 1k installment every mth.

So, who is more fatal?

Xan
15-04-12, 16:43
Does it mean rental of a 4HDB at nearby location may become $800? Which will tenant choose?

Bro, I cant answer you. There are different people with different needs.
Some go for lifestyle/facilities, some go for space.
I drive to Sky habitat just now, also cannot understand why can pay 1700psf for bishan surrounded by mosque, ITE, CC and old HDBs.
But I cannot say these buyers are carrots. Maybe they see something I cannot see.

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 16:47
When rental drops like that in CCR, it means recession time. Not sure if people still can afford lifestyle.
Bro, I cant answer you. There are different people with different needs.
Some go for lifestyle, some go for space.

ikan bilis
15-04-12, 16:51
Dont forget you cannot interpolate by this way.
The more loan you borrow, the more interest amt you incurred.

can try calculator on propertyguru also... ;)

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/mortgage_calc_monthly

Xan
15-04-12, 16:56
When rental drops like that in CCR, it means recession time. Not sure if people still can afford lifestyle.

Yea, you got a point.
Had a friend, earning 4.5k per month, single, not married, but he prefers to stay alone in a mm (move out from his parents, cant get along), he prefers to stay in a secured/serene environment that comes with facilities. He rented a condo instead of looking for HDB. He told me he dont need a 4HDB.
If he has wife/children, of cos his needs will be different.

sgp_condo
15-04-12, 17:00
I dont know how you get that figure, but I'm paying ard $800 for my monthly installment for WT mm. Or probably I cannot use 570K for mm in WT. In actual fact, I'm paying 550K for WT after all the rebates.
But nvm, 550k or 570k to me not much diff.

$340k loan at 2.5% is $1343
$600k loan at 2.5% is $2370

You are paying $800 probably due to the construction phases?

I always use 2.5% as interest for cal will not be low forever. If interest rise, I will use addition 1% for safety net.

Xan
15-04-12, 17:00
can try calculator on propertyguru also... ;)

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/mortgage_calc_monthly

Thanks for pointing out the exact figures.
Basically, the monthly installment is still about twice for CCR vs OCR.
That is my main point.

But if both CCR and OCR cant rent out in bad times, who is more fatal?

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 17:09
During recession, the likely scenarios are:

Expatriate:
a. Retrench and go home.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

ii. Stay put but share the place with other families to reduce rent.


Locals like your friend:
a. Retrench and go back to stay with parents.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

Xan
15-04-12, 17:14
$340k loan at 2.5% is $1343
$600k loan at 2.5% is $2370

You are paying $800 probably due to the construction phases?

I always use 2.5% as interest for cal will not be low forever. If interest rise, I will use addition 1% for safety net.

I think I know why I'm paying 800plus per month.
Because of those various rebates (e.g stamp duty, FV rebates etc), the bank tends to borrow me lesser.
Thats why i end up paying $800plus per month.

Xan
15-04-12, 17:15
During recession, the likely scenarios are:

Expatriate:
a. Retrench and go home.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

ii. Stay put but share the place with other families to reduce rent.


Locals like your friend:
a. Retrench and go back to stay with parents.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

If I got retrenched, I will probably take option A, go back stay with parents.

chiaberry
15-04-12, 17:16
I think I know why I'm paying 800plus per month.
Because of those various rebates (e.g stamp duty, FV rebates etc), the bank tends to borrow me lesser.
Thats why i end up paying $800plus per month.

Isn't it because of progressive payment if your place not yet TOPed?

Xan
15-04-12, 17:19
Isn't it because of progressive payment if your place not yet TOPed?

Dont think so, because according to my bank statement, 800plus is the installment I'm paying when loan has been fully disbursed during TOP.
I'm very sure not progressive payment. coz progressive payments is even much lesser than that.

dtrax
15-04-12, 17:25
Lets do some math here:
A mm in CCR, probably cost ard 9xxk to 1 mil (eg espada), after 40% payment, outstanding loan left 600K, monthly instalment 2.4k(with 30 yr tenure, 1.1% interest rate)

A mm in OCR (use WT since you mention punggol) cost ard 570k, after 40% payment, outstanding loan 340k, monthly instalment ($800 with 30 yr tenure, 1.1 interest rate)

If go by your logic, CCR mm rental slash price until 2K, then CCR MM unit owner has a deficit of: 2k(rental) - 2.4k (installment) = -$400.
and OCR mm rental slash until $800 per month. then OCR mm owner ($800 instalment -800 rental = $0, no deficit)

Please enlighten me which one more fatal in bad times.

PS: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you mentioned, you kenna before, I would be very interested to know which project you are vested before and which one you kenna before. I'm curious because I never kenna before and I cash out a few times from OCR with some gain. Thanks in advance for your views. Hope to learn from each other.

Skysuites CCR MM 750k, possible rental 3k, recession drop to 2.1k. After 40% down with a 35yr 60% loan. Monthly loan 1.3k @1.1% interest. Assume worse case 3% interest + condo fee, at 2.1k can breakeven [excluding other misc cost].

Xan
15-04-12, 17:33
Skysuites CCR MM 750k, possible rental 3k, recession drop to 2.1k. After 40% down with a 35yr 60% loan. Monthly loan 1.3k @1.1% interest. Assume worse case 3% interest + condo fee, at 2.1k can breakeven [excluding other misc cost].

I'm not quite sure.
If you use CCR skysuites at 750k, then i can also use OCR parc rosewood mm at 398k. (about half in terms of price)

I always like to factor in some safety factor in terms of rental.
Questions I will ask myself:
1) would there be substainable rental from CCR/OCR?
2) what would happen if my unit are left vacant. (quite common in CCR as well). I still need to service my loan, much higher compared to OCR.
3) the downlpayment I need to pay when buying an CCR which probably I can buy 2 OCR.

Probably this will be my last post abt OCR vs CCR rental.
Will invite more arguements as both OCR and CCR attracts different groups of people.
Not that I dont believe in CCR, but if my pocket is deep enough one day, probably I would have tested a CCR myself. Thanks all!

FH99
15-04-12, 17:50
After 1997 financial crisis and followed by 2000 dot come bubbles, the rental for Yishun 3 bed room private was 1k (yes, for the whole unit. and yes, almost the same as 4-Rm HDB rental which was also about 1k).
For MM in remote area, you simply didn't have viewers!
So the auntie I know move into her MM - for her own stay!

dtrax
15-04-12, 17:55
I'm not quite sure.
If you use CCR skysuites at 750k, then i can also use OCR parc rosewood mm at 398k. (about half in terms of price)

I always like to factor in some safety factor in terms of rental.
Questions I will ask myself:
1) would there be substainable rental from CCR/OCR?
2) what would happen if my unit are left vacant. (quite common in CCR as well). I still need to service my loan, much higher compared to OCR.
3) the downlpayment I need to pay when buying an CCR which probably I can buy 2 OCR.

Probably this will be my last post abt OCR vs CCR rental.
Will invite more arguements as both OCR and CCR attracts different groups of people.
Not that I dont believe in CCR, but if my pocket is deep enough one day, probably I would have tested a CCR myself. Thanks all!

Fair enough and that is why people chiong PR like no 2moro. 400k quantum size is definitely more acceptable for the younger group. CCR sustainability is not doubt proven and imo even in worse case where people downgrade from normal studio 1rm to MM within the ccr vicinity itself in bad times. As for OCR, there are certain risk to undertake in terms of vacancy, bearing in mind both MM in different locations are still predominated by rental. It is just a matter which locations has a higher chance by being left vacant from investor point of view [assuming price is not a main factor be it 400k or 800k].

Xan
15-04-12, 18:20
Fair enough and that is why people chiong PR like no 2moro. 400k quantum size is definitely more acceptable for the younger group. CCR sustainability is not doubt proven and imo even in worse case where people downgrade from normal studio 1rm to MM within the ccr vicinity itself in bad times. As for OCR, there are certain risk to undertake in terms of vacancy, bearing in mind both MM in different locations are still predominated by rental. It is just a matter which locations has a higher chance by being left vacant from investor point of view [assuming price is not a main factor be it 400k or 800k].

While some thinks CCR can slash price, my point is OCR can also slash price like there's no tomorrow, because the installment for CCR is almost twice of OCR.
Parc rosewood lagi best, 398k, with 1.1% interest, 35yrs tenure, monthly installment is only $600plus.
If you dare to slash your CCR to 2K rental to breakeven, PRW owners can also slash until $600plus to breakeven as well.
Let's see who can slash more fiercely in bad times.
I'm not surprise many will turn to rent OCR at $600 per month in bad times. Its a real deal.
Ok, enjoy yourself. bye :)

dtrax
15-04-12, 19:23
While some thinks CCR can slash price, my point is OCR can also slash price like there's no tomorrow, because the installment for CCR is almost twice of OCR.
Parc rosewood lagi best, 398k, with 1.1% interest, 35yrs tenure, monthly installment is only $600plus.
If you dare to slash your CCR to 2K rental to breakeven, PRW owners can also slash until $600plus to breakeven as well.
Let's see who can slash more fiercely in bad times.
I'm not surprise many will turn to rent OCR at $600 per month in bad times. Its a real deal.
Ok, enjoy yourself. bye :)

Then HDB entire unit also exercise slashing war <$400? I think we are both thinking too much...

carbuncle
15-04-12, 20:35
After 1997 financial crisis and followed by 2000 dot come bubbles, the rental for Yishun 3 bed room private was 1k (yes, for the whole unit. and yes, almost the same as 4-Rm HDB rental which was also about 1k).
For MM in remote area, you simply didn't have viewers!
So the auntie I know move into her MM - for her own stay!

Is there mm in 2000??

teddybear
15-04-12, 20:59
OCR private condo say 3BRs rent out for $600+ pm? Wow! Then nobody will rent HDB flats! So moral of the story: Never keep HDB flats for rental purpose? :p


While some thinks CCR can slash price, my point is OCR can also slash price like there's no tomorrow, because the installment for CCR is almost twice of OCR.
Parc rosewood lagi best, 398k, with 1.1% interest, 35yrs tenure, monthly installment is only $600plus.
If you dare to slash your CCR to 2K rental to breakeven, PRW owners can also slash until $600plus to breakeven as well.
Let's see who can slash more fiercely in bad times.
I'm not surprise many will turn to rent OCR at $600 per month in bad times. Its a real deal.
Ok, enjoy yourself. bye :)

kane
15-04-12, 21:21
600 not even enough for property tax and monthly maintenance. Lol.

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 22:01
Your pts (3) may not be always true. Those who bought earlier (3 years ago) could be cheaper than what you pay for MM in WT ($psf). They can afford to wait even got no tenant or get drop rental equivalent to OCR rental.
I'm not quite sure.
If you use CCR skysuites at 750k, then i can also use OCR parc rosewood mm at 398k. (about half in terms of price)

I always like to factor in some safety factor in terms of rental.
Questions I will ask myself:
1) would there be substainable rental from CCR/OCR?
2) what would happen if my unit are left vacant. (quite common in CCR as well). I still need to service my loan, much higher compared to OCR.
3) the downlpayment I need to pay when buying an CCR which probably I can buy 2 OCR.

Probably this will be my last post abt OCR vs CCR rental.
Will invite more arguements as both OCR and CCR attracts different groups of people.
Not that I dont believe in CCR, but if my pocket is deep enough one day, probably I would have tested a CCR myself. Thanks all!

DC33_2008
15-04-12, 22:03
This is exactly what I am trying to emphasis which MM in OCR with lots of HDB flats may be caught during recession.
During recession, the likely scenarios are:

Expatriate:
a. Retrench and go home.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

ii. Stay put but share the place with other families to reduce rent.


Locals like your friend:
a. Retrench and go back to stay with parents.

b. Those with jobs but with pay freeze or cut:
i. Move to a place with lower rent with either smaller place or move from private to hdb flats.

Xan
15-04-12, 22:15
600 not even enough for property tax and monthly maintenance. Lol.

Haha, absolutely.
Likewise for CCR, the owners also need to factor in prop tax and maintenance, which is usually higher than OCR.

Xan
15-04-12, 22:18
OCR private condo say 3BRs rent out for $600+ pm? Wow! Then nobody will rent HDB flats! So moral of the story: Never keep HDB flats for rental purpose? :p

We are talking abt mm in bad times with some exaggeration in price slash lah. Haha.
HDB rental still bestest lah. But not everyone of us here are eligible to buy one.

Xan
15-04-12, 22:24
Your pts (3) may not be always true. Those who bought earlier (3 years ago) could be cheaper than what you pay for MM in WT ($psf). They can afford to wait even got no tenant or get drop rental equivalent to OCR rental.

Hmm, are you referring to mm in CCR/RCR 3 years ago?
Yes, I think the shore residence, waterbank mm units all around WT mm psf, say 2 to 3 years ago.
5 years ago, my 4 bedder OCR only 443 psf.
But time has changed.

amk
15-04-12, 22:27
In 2009, my D10 3bd tenant invoked dipl clause and ran away. I had to lower rental from 6k to 4k. Guess what, taken by a Singaporean family very quickly. At 3-4k range, A LOT of decent families can afford to rent a large unit, and be near town.

So CCR good location units always have demand.

For OCR 1bd, when shit comes, u r going to rent 600 to workers ? U do not worry abt damage ? When rental is < 1k, the business is very grey.... What kind of ppl rent for 1k now ?

I can only say, 1bd at outskirt area is an untested market.

Xan
15-04-12, 22:34
In 2009, my D10 3bd tenant invoked dipl clause and ran away. I had to lower rental from 6k to 4k. Guess what, taken by a Singaporean family very quickly. At 3-4k range, A LOT of decent families can afford to rent a large unit, and be near town.

So CCR good location units always have demand.

For OCR 1bd, when shit comes, u r going to rent 600 to workers ? U do not worry abt damage ? When rental is < 1k, the business is very grey.... What kind of ppl rent for 1k now ?

I can only say, 1bd at outskirt area is an untested market.

Haha, if you insist CCR always have sustainable rental so be it lor. Then I would not be seeing threads like "A few CCR selling at a loss" or reading news CCR units left vacant for mths etc.
I know if an OCR has convenience of transport and amenities, it won't die as well. Lower installment, lower maintenance comparatively.

minority
15-04-12, 22:36
In 2009, my D10 3bd tenant invoked dipl clause and ran away. I had to lower rental from 6k to 4k. Guess what, taken by a Singaporean family very quickly. At 3-4k range, A LOT of decent families can afford to rent a large unit, and be near town.

So CCR good location units always have demand.

For OCR 1bd, when shit comes, u r going to rent 600 to workers ? U do not worry abt damage ? When rental is < 1k, the business is very grey.... What kind of ppl rent for 1k now ?

I can only say, 1bd at outskirt area is an untested market.

Yes I CCR can easily find tenant. While OCR studio have more challenges esp with the HDB ard the OCR and even ECs.

amk
15-04-12, 22:57
I know if an OCR has convenience of transport and amenities, it won't die as well. Lower installment, lower maintenance comparatively.

What you say is logical, but again u also have to look at location. What industry , or business activities do you have in Punggol ? I think it's more likely to find low wage workers in boon lay , woodlands than in Punggol. And that's already assuming you can find them renting 1k from you. In 2001 a 5rm HDB near jurong east MRT only rents for 1500. At 1000, a lot of HDB big units will compete with you.
Anyway this discussion won't have any conclusion. Hard truths are not told, but learned. I wish you all the best in your investments.

Xan
15-04-12, 23:19
What you say is logical, but again u also have to look at location. What industry , or business activities do you have in Punggol ? I think it's more likely to find low wage workers in boon lay , woodlands than in Punggol. And that's already assuming you can find them renting 1k from you. In 2001 a 5rm HDB near jurong east MRT only rents for 1500. At 1000, a lot of HDB big units will compete with you.
Anyway this discussion won't have any conclusion. Hard truths are not told, but learned. I wish you all the best in your investments.

What you said is not wrong either. Definitely the chances of finding rental in CCR is higher than in OCR, no doubt about it. But what I'm worried is the rental sustainability in CCR during bad times as the installment is higher, prop tax higher and also maintenance fee higher. If CCR unit goes without rental for months, I wonder how much longer I can hold.
Or is this the reason why some sell CCR at a loss for this reason? I don't know.

Why WT and not PRW for me even PRW is much cheaper? Ya, I'm betting on convenience of tpt and amendities. Price not too stressful for me and within my means, got some spare cash so try lor. Even if I'm wrong, this investment is not enough to put me into serious fanancial crisis since quantum is low and risk factor is not high either.
Yes, I might be wrong,or maybe let me learn my lesson and shall come back and share with you guys again. :)
Cheers.

carbuncle
16-04-12, 13:44
Aiya soon expats and FT will be extinct species. Rent to those who sold their hdb to upgrade to Bedok Residences, Watertown and Sky Habitat lor! At least for next 4 to 5yrs they need a place to stay also... I wonder if property agencies will have such lists of prospects on record...

radha08
16-04-12, 14:56
Aiya soon expats and FT will be extinct species. Rent to those who sold their hdb to upgrade to Bedok Residences, Watertown and Sky Habitat lor! At least for next 4 to 5yrs they need a place to stay also... I wonder if property agencies will have such lists of prospects on record...

just stand outside both the casino and give flyers these people will b there....:D

carbuncle
16-04-12, 15:07
just stand outside both the casino and give flyers these people will b there....:D
Good one....

dtrax
19-04-12, 03:18
In terms of rental contracts and the total rental transacted it is still trending up, at least according to my analytics. Will be listing out the rental stats by districts :)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5326/7091260701_a01d242c35_z.jpg

dtrax
19-04-12, 15:45
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5234/7091617473_d939785207.jpg

The total number rental contracts for top 5 districts is almost the same the total for the remaining 23districts :eek:

amk
19-04-12, 16:02
The total number rental contracts for top 5 districts is almost the same the total for the remaining 23districts :eek:
in other words, most of the rental activities happen in CCR + D15 and D5 west coast ;)

hopeful
19-04-12, 16:46
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5234/7091617473_d939785207.jpg

The total number rental contracts for top 5 districts is almost the same the total for the remaining 23districts :eek:

cannot say like, how about value $ wise?
the total value for top 5 districts same as the other 23 districts?

D10 $7576/contract
D15 $4342/contract
D9 $6211/contract
D11 $6146/contract
D5 $4087/contract

dtrax, how to subscribe to PCT Analytics?

sh
19-04-12, 17:00
just says volume of contracts & where. Doesn't say going up or down:beats-me-man:

useless....:tongue3:

dtrax
19-04-12, 17:10
cannot say like, how about value $ wise?
the total value for top 5 districts same as the other 23 districts?

D10 $7576/contract
D15 $4342/contract
D9 $6211/contract
D11 $6146/contract
D5 $4087/contract

dtrax, how to subscribe to PCT Analytics?

Much more than the other 23 districts

dtrax
19-04-12, 17:12
just says volume of contracts & where. Doesn't say going up or down:beats-me-man:

useless....:tongue3:

I din say i will provide the uptrends or downtrends of the specific district right? Furthermore I was provide the FREE info on the timeline of the overall rental contract/value.

Ok since it is useless, then I shall not post any of such free info anymore, rather use it for my personal benefit

amk
19-04-12, 17:16
dtrax bro is very very helpful !! his post is actual transaction data not tcss. And those are paid services, he gave us free.

we are all very grateful to you.

carbuncle
19-04-12, 17:16
Increasingly popular D19 not inside? Most buy for own stay?

dtrax
19-04-12, 17:17
its ok lar.. free pple say not gd. not free pple say wtf.. I should probably make it online as a paid version at least got "yield".
So sadden, when i post regular updates still got pple complain. Anyhow I shall refrain from posting such free info in future

amk
19-04-12, 17:22
:(

dtrax bro, hope you can reconsider... one uncalled for casual remark does not represent most members' opinions here....

hopeful
19-04-12, 17:25
just says volume of contracts & where. Doesn't say going up or down:beats-me-man:

useless....:tongue3:
why you say useless?

for example, if what dtrax say is true, 5 top districts = rest of districts,
then in 1 year, there are 22942 rental contracts in CCR + D15 + D5.
so rest of OCR, RCR combined has approx 23000 contracts.

Connect that to how much supply coming up in 2012-2015, both in CCR,RCR,OCR ?

why given same data, different people can make use of data differently?

hopeful
19-04-12, 17:35
its ok lar.. free pple say not gd. not free pple say wtf.. I should probably make it online as a paid version at least got "yield".
So sadden, when i post regular updates still got pple complain. Anyhow I shall refrain from posting such free info in future

+1
but can make it less than $1000/year subscription? I think for a lot of people here, condo profit can cover this easily.

bargain hunter
19-04-12, 17:39
yeah, as i've said many times before since 2009, really appreciate all your free info. :) just ignore these noises.


its ok lar.. free pple say not gd. not free pple say wtf.. I should probably make it online as a paid version at least got "yield".
So sadden, when i post regular updates still got pple complain. Anyhow I shall refrain from posting such free info in future

maisonjai
19-04-12, 17:43
D9 power siah, vs D15 ~3% lesser contracts but value almost 40% difference.

dtrax
19-04-12, 17:45
+1
but can make it less than $1000/year subscription? I think for a lot of people here, condo profit can cover this easily.

Lol no plans yet although I did think of starting one but too much work on hand liao. So sad, when I was doing "community service" here by posting info here since i was doing research for myself anwz. But a comment here really strike me thinking, coupled with the sadden state of this forum which probably has no moderation with a famous thread but hundreds of K posting of flamming, I was thinking can probably start some kinda of analytic cum social networking portal. haha even if I am to price for a fee, likely a small fraction of 1k. Besides sg style, everything muz be cheap n gd right? I rather have a pool of high quality, good members where we can network and discuss properties in a much conducive environment

carbuncle
19-04-12, 17:59
D9 power siah, vs D15 ~3% lesser contracts but value almost 40% difference.
Their respective pricing of projects also about there right? Lol

maisonjai
19-04-12, 18:07
Their respective pricing of projects also about there right? Lol
I didn't mention this, afraid kena bash:p

sh
19-04-12, 18:08
why you say useless?

for example, if what dtrax say is true, 5 top districts = rest of districts,
then in 1 year, there are 22942 rental contracts in CCR + D15 + D5.
so rest of OCR, RCR combined has approx 23000 contracts.

Connect that to how much supply coming up in 2012-2015, both in CCR,RCR,OCR ?

why given same data, different people can make use of data differently?

Apologies if I offended anyone.:(

But the title of the thread says "drop in property rental" not volume of rental....

carbuncle
19-04-12, 18:18
I didn't mention this, afraid kena bash:p
Why would kena bash?? Just divide the contract value by 3 is the average psf of new launches there lol

teddybear
19-04-12, 19:01
Please stay, sad to see you not posting useful info anymore. Just ignore these people, treat them as noises. (Just like me, not happy scold them back lor! :ashamed1: - I can help you x2 to scold them back... :D)


its ok lar.. free pple say not gd. not free pple say wtf.. I should probably make it online as a paid version at least got "yield".
So sadden, when i post regular updates still got pple complain. Anyhow I shall refrain from posting such free info in future

carbuncle
19-04-12, 20:14
Sh already clarified he just meant it didnt gel with thread title thats all.... Think the word "useless" a bit strong and he didnt mean as such... Stay la bro....

sh
19-04-12, 20:18
Sh already clarified he just meant it didnt gel with thread title thats all.... Think the word "useless" a bit strong and he didnt mean as such... Stay la bro....

Sorry again lah.... COME BACK:not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy: :not-worthy:

yjcai
19-04-12, 20:56
Hmm dtrax bro is trying to tell you if buy small or MM < 500 sq ft, ccr got a very big cushion of contracts in the top 5 district. For example would u rather buy MM 700k+ in skysuites or 1 room 600k in watertown or 400k parc rosewood. Where got not useful, in fact it is such a good screen. The rental guarentee gives good value.

DaytonaSS
20-04-12, 09:29
cannot say like, how about value $ wise?
the total value for top 5 districts same as the other 23 districts?

D10 $7576/contract
D15 $4342/contract
D9 $6211/contract
D11 $6146/contract
D5 $4087/contract

dtrax, how to subscribe to PCT Analytics?

Dtrax n hopeful. Do u mind if I ask what does contract value means ? Is it's rental income per month on the average?

Also do u mind if I ask about woodlands n west coast , does this 2 district have outstanding rental contract n values since they have an established international school.

hopeful
20-04-12, 11:39
Dtrax n hopeful. Do u mind if I ask what does contract value means ? Is it's rental income per month on the average?

Also do u mind if I ask about woodlands n west coast , does this 2 district have outstanding rental contract n values since they have an established international school.

when there is renting of property, stamp duty has to be paid.
from iras, lease period has to be stated and lease per month, so I would hazard a guess that contract value = monthly rental.

dtrax
20-04-12, 15:02
Dtrax n hopeful. Do u mind if I ask what does contract value means ? Is it's rental income per month on the average?

Also do u mind if I ask about woodlands n west coast , does this 2 district have outstanding rental contract n values since they have an established international school.

Means based on the total rental contracts, yes likely hood based on stamp duty, how much are these [value] are worth. Send me a pm bah, i will forward you the info separately

hopeful
20-04-12, 16:27
Dtrax n hopeful. Do u mind if I ask what does contract value means ? Is it's rental income per month on the average?

Also do u mind if I ask about woodlands n west coast , does this 2 district have outstanding rental contract n values since they have an established international school.
isnt' it easier if you check by condos that are within 500m? compare with 1km?
because if there is any effect, it would be overwhelmed by the huge number of condos in the 2 districts, so you wont see the effect

chestnut
20-04-12, 22:30
Means based on the total rental contracts, yes likely hood based on stamp duty, how much are these [value] are worth. Send me a pm bah, i will forward you the info separately

Dtrax, can you let me know where to get the data? Since this thread is on rental and you are on leave, let me tickle your mind.

Get the information on the following
1. Population over past few years
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html
2. Number of Hdb over the same period - found this before but now cannot seem to get as need time. But should be in sings tat.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/popn/c2010sr2.html
3. No of Condo over the same period.
4. No of landed over the same period.

If you compare dwellings vs population, you should find that the dwellings cannot keep pace with population.
If you look at the number of foreigners coming in each year and divide by 4, this would be roughly the number of units required for rental. Again, you will find that the number of units built cannot keep pace which resulted in rental climbing.
Marriage is about 20+ k per year. Look at how many hdb is built per year over the last 5 years. You will find a huge backlog of people who are married without a hdb.

Food for thought.

Analysis is key to determining trend.

Food for thought.

DaytonaSS
21-04-12, 01:25
Means based on the total rental contracts, yes likely hood based on stamp duty, how much are these [value] are worth. Send me a pm bah, i will forward you the info separately

thanks for the insight. the numbers are truly eye opening. Not based on self assuming logic and assumptions. Facts n figures shows the truth. The 2 area u shown is a world of difference.

DaytonaSS
21-04-12, 01:35
isnt' it easier if you check by condos that are within 500m? compare with 1km?
because if there is any effect, it would be overwhelmed by the huge number of condos in the 2 districts, so you wont see the effect

thanks for the sharing. i want to compare district lvl first to see on the whole does international school show a higher no of rental contracts as compared to nearby district.

next broadly we can see if truly location location location is still the unchallenged truth.