View Full Version : Will property prices stay
Everyone has been saying if for stay just buy the condo unit u like as long as one can afford it. If for investment, can wait for prices to dip. For latter, will it ever happen? Many have been waiting sine 2010 when prices skyrocketed from the last crisis. Should one just hoot and buy one or carry on waiting? Inflation is surging and eating into bank savings. How how how?:doh:
Please share views:beats-me-man:
Allthepies
04-05-12, 07:42
everyone buy buy buy. we need a lot more optimism before the bubble if any can burst!
Everyone has been saying if for stay just buy the condo unit u like as long as one can afford it. If for investment, can wait for prices to dip. For latter, will it ever happen? Many have been waiting sine 2010 when prices skyrocketed from the last crisis. Should one just hoot and buy one or carry on waiting? Inflation is surging and eating into bank savings. How how how?:doh:
Please share views:beats-me-man:
It depends on how much cash u have n ur existing financial commitments. No harm buying a FH or 999LH to keep if u have a lot of idle cash.
It depends on how much cash u have n ur existing financial commitments. No harm buying a FH or 999LH to keep if u have a lot of idle cash.
If its meant for LH rental pending HDB TOP? Shld still buy now?
If its meant for LH rental pending HDB TOP? Shld still buy now?
Sorry abit misleading. Let me paraphrase. Does it mk sense to buy condo in todays prices if the intention is to to rent out first. Once current hdb TOP, the family will move in condo n rent. Out hdb.
They are conflicting messages in the market. On the one hand, there is still some under supply in the market. In addition, there is call for sustained immigration. On the other hand, the RCR & OCR condos have risen to a high levels (you know which ones!) and may not be sustainable soon. Having said that, there are still reasonably prized ones such as Ripple Bay as well as freehold resale condos in the suburbs.
For me, I am more inclined to buy if it is within CCR as the prices have stabilised with more room for capital appreciation if hold for longer term.
These are personal thoughts :)
How are you going to buy if you haven fulfil MOP?
Unless your HDB bought before Aug 2010....
They are conflicting messages in the market. On the one hand, there is still some under supply in the market. In addition, there is call for sustained immigration. On the other hand, the CCR & OCR condos have risen to a high levels (you know which ones!) and may not be sustainable soon. Having said that, there are still reasonably prized ones such as Ripple Bay as well as freehold resale condos in the suburbs.
For me, I am more inclined to buy if it is within CCR as the prices have stabilised with more room for capital appreciation if hold for longer term.
These are personal thoughts :)
How about LH condo in queenstown area? Is that RCR or CCR?
How are you going to buy if you haven fulfil MOP?
Unless your HDB bought before Aug 2010....
Under parent's name lor.
How about LH condo in queenstown area? Is that RCR or CCR?
Queenstown is RCR if I am not wrong as to my mind, CCR is District 9,10 & 11. I think there is still value in suburban freehold condos. As for Queenstown, very centrally located but I understand the prices are still high for LH.
Queenstown is RCR if I am not wrong as to my mind, CCR is District 9,10 & 11. I think there is still value in suburban freehold condos. As for Queenstown, very centrally located but I understand the prices are still high for LH.
So dun buy first?
It depends on how much cash u have n ur existing financial commitments. No harm buying a FH or 999LH to keep if u have a lot of idle cash.
That's not quite true if you are buying for investment. 99LH gives better yield due to its lower purchase price if compared to FH in the same location. A 99LH and a FH same size unit, same age in the same location will command the same rental as tenants don't bother about tenure.
And when interest rates go up, your rental from your FH unit may not even be enough to cover your monthly instalment due to higher loan taken.
Make your money from the 99LH for the first 10 to 15 years and then sell it off. Don't forget the longer you keep your FH, the harder it is to rent out as the development ages and there are newer projects in the vicinity.
An old unit cannot compete with a brand new unit when it comes to getting tenants for the same price.
So dun buy first?
Think nobody can advice you so specifically as it is just our personal opinions based on personal experiences :)
I can be wrong in my assumptions. However, conventional wisdom points that new LH suburban condos are launching on the high side.
Think nobody can advice you so specifically as it is just our personal opinions based on personal experiences :)
I can be wrong in my assumptions. However, conventional wisdom points that new LH suburban condos are launching on the high side.
True just trying to get more opinions for consideration.
That's not quite true if you are buying for investment. 99LH gives better yield due to its lower purchase price if compared to FH in the same location. A 99LH and a FH same size unit, same age in the same location will command the same rental as tenants don't bother about tenure.
And when interest rates go up, your rental from your FH unit may not even be enough to cover your monthly instalment due to higher loan taken.
Make your money from the 99LH for the first 10 to 15 years and then sell it off. Don't forget the longer you keep your FH, the harder it is to rent out as the development ages and there are newer projects in the vicinity.
An old unit cannot compete with a brand new unit when it comes to getting tenants for the same price.
Not sure abt ur last. 2nd para. Sell LH after 15 years? Harder to rent out FH when it ages? Doesnt syn.
Anyway, if i am getting a 10 year old LH for rental then move in in 2 years time. Any potential drawback?
True just trying to get more opinions for consideration.
I do agree that if the objective is purely rental , go for LH. If to stay LH999 or freehold is better. Attached is an opinion piece:
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Freehold vs. 99-Year Lease
Tagged: new condo (http://www.condoexpert.sg/blog/tag/new-condo/), new property (http://www.condoexpert.sg/blog/tag/new-property/), singapore condo (http://www.condoexpert.sg/blog/tag/singapore-condo/), singapore property (http://www.condoexpert.sg/blog/tag/singapore-property/)
One of the cornerstones of society in Singapore is new property (http://www.condoexpert.sg/) ownership. In fact, whether a Singapore condo or house dweller, 90 percent of Singapore residents own their own home. But when it comes time to sign a lease, Singaporeans are faced with two options: the Freehold lease and the 99-year lease.
This common lease decision can be based on any number of factors. While market considerations always play in for property investors, the typical homeowner may be more concerned with financial comfort and passing on their Singapore property to the next generation.
The typical attraction to a 99-year lease agreement is price. 99-year properties are often considerably cheaper than Freehold properties. According to AsiaOne Business, leasehold properties usually offer a higher rental yield for investors because of their lower capital cost. However, the higher yield merely compensates the owner for the decaying lease.
For quick-turn property investors, a 99-year lease could offer significant savings. If you plan to buy a property, do some repairs and immediately sell at a profit to other investors or homeowners, the savings you would incur on a 99-year lease can be hard to pass up. But depending on the market, this plan could backfire. A 99-year lease decays everyday, reducing property values. Depending on how long your buyers plan to stay in their new property, a decaying lease could be a deal-breaker.
A Freehold lease never expires, meaning the Singapore property you buy today could be in your family for generations. This is appealing to many Singapore residents as taking care of family in the home is one of the great joys of our nation. And with a Freehold lease, you can be sure your lease won’t count against your property value, regardless of how the market does. Not only will your lease terms not hurt you, your land value is likely to stay steady, as freehold land in Singapore is rare and usually holds its value very well. But for many homeowners, the significant cost difference is a deterrent.
In the end, this decision comes down to what you want out of your property. If you are looking strictly from an investment standpoint, a 99-year lease is better in the short term resale but a Freehold lease is better for long-term rental properties. For homeowners, if you are looking for a starter home or new condo, a 99-year lease may work better within your budget. If you are buying the home you will raise your children and grow old in, a Freehold lease may be the way to go.
Thanks. Buying a pty can be such a big headache esp when prices are skyhigh now.
Thanks. Buying a pty can be such a big headache esp when prices are skyhigh now.
well, don't discount the possibility of en-bloc for LH developments and this largely depends on the location
well, don't discount the possibility of en-bloc for LH developments and this largely depends on the location
Speaking about this, does LH or FH stand a higher chance on enbloc?
try going to TOP project which can fetch rental earlier. the price could be higher but still lower than new launch.
pretty sick price..
:mad:
Not sure abt ur last. 2nd para. Sell LH after 15 years? Harder to rent out FH when it ages? Doesnt syn.
Anyway, if i am getting a 10 year old LH for rental then move in in 2 years time. Any potential drawback?
What I meant was if you have a 20 year old FH, you are going to compete with brand new 99LH in the same location for rental.
99LH tend to depreciate faster after 15 to 20 years, so some people sell it off after enjoying the rental income for that number of years. And it is not necessarily at a loss since inflation and other factors come into play.
Speaking about this, does LH or FH stand a higher chance on enbloc?
FH of course - which means everything Desfrie has said about handing down to family generations blah blah is hopelessly wrong.
It will be sold enbloc after 30+ years whether they want to hold onto it or not.
LH can, but location must be excellent.
people have BUYING power any good bargain or price drop..people will go in...so how to soften significantly...:)
FH if you want your kids to give you GRAND funeral..:D :D :D
LH if you want normal funeral....:sleep:
FH of course - which means everything Desfrie has said about handing down to family generations blah blah is hopelessly wrong.
It will be sold enbloc after 30+ years whether they want to hold onto it or not.
LH can, but location must be excellent.
regardless of location it still depends on plot ratio and current size of the apartments. if all MM and plot ratio no change.. how to enbloc?
FH of course - which means everything Desfrie has said about handing down to family generations blah blah is hopelessly wrong.
It will be sold enbloc after 30+ years whether they want to hold onto it or not.
LH can, but location must be excellent.
I stand corrected. That opinion piece was not written by me. In anyway, u should not say an opinion is hopelessly wrong as u are taking it too literally. It stated lasting for generations figuratively if u comprehend what I mean.
prices will hover or continually creep up as long as interest rates remain low (which the fed says quantitative easing will continue at least till 2014). with no major external shocks, i don't foresee any surprise movements.
observers all say 2015 is the year to watch as everyone is waiting to see if the supply will be fully absorbed. frankly speaking, looking at all the take-up rates of the new developments now, i think absorbing current supply is not a worry at all.
at the rate of how land is being sold to developers, the planners know that there is a pent up demand and they are trying their best to 'soak up' all these demand as fast as possible to stabilize prices. i also have faith that there would not be a case of 'oversupply' as all these numbers have been crunched and calculated (assuming that they perform sound data analysis) to match demand to supply optimally.
in general, government will plan for POSITIVE GROWTH.
Property prices will simply go up over in the long term. You cannot go back to the few years before and lament that it was 600psf then. Then we did not have circle line, no NE line, fewer expressways etc etc. Singapore has developed at an exponential pace and hence as we achieve global cities status, property values simply reflect that status.
You go NYC, Tokyo, London, Paris.....do the prices ever fall sharply?
Will price stay? Yes! If we understand consumer behaviour, prices will not only stay, it may rise even higher.
Marketers are exploiting consumers by understanding their behaviour. Consumers will buy more if more people are buying. They will buy less or not buy at all if not many people are buying.
"The fact that many people are buying cannot be wrong".
Price is likely to correct through government intervention or facing an economic downturn.
High inflation with high property prices with slow GDP growth and income growth is dangerous and not sustainable. That is why the market is expecting more government intervention soon.
Will price stay? No! May even correct if government intervenes since market is failing.
prices will hover or continually creep up as long as interest rates remain low (which the fed says quantitative easing will continue at least till 2014). with no major external shocks, i don't foresee any surprise movements.
observers all say 2015 is the year to watch as everyone is waiting to see if the supply will be fully absorbed. frankly speaking, looking at all the take-up rates of the new developments now, i think absorbing current supply is not a worry at all.
at the rate of how land is being sold to developers, the planners know that there is a pent up demand and they are trying their best to 'soak up' all these demand as fast as possible to stabilize prices. i also have faith that there would not be a case of 'oversupply' as all these numbers have been crunched and calculated (assuming that they perform sound data analysis) to match demand to supply optimally.
in general, government will plan for POSITIVE GROWTH.
Property prices will simply go up over in the long term. You cannot go back to the few years before and lament that it was 600psf then. Then we did not have circle line, no NE line, fewer expressways etc etc. Singapore has developed at an exponential pace and hence as we achieve global cities status, property values simply reflect that status.
You go NYC, Tokyo, London, Paris.....do the prices ever fall sharply?
Agree with your analysis. However, with property prices now at 20-year high and with income lagging price increases, NEGATIVE GROWTH in real estate is a good thing in the near term without affecting POSITIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH in the long term.
Expect government intervention for a sustainable economy.
I stand corrected. That opinion piece was not written by me. In anyway, u should not say an opinion is hopelessly wrong as u are taking it too literally. It stated lasting for generations figuratively if u comprehend what I mean.
Sorry, I don't. I can only understand what is written.
As it is written it's hopelessly wrong. My old "kampong" on Leonie Hill seen virtually every single condo over 30 years gone - FH or LH - few exceptions like the infamous Horizon Towers.
Only chance to hang on to anything is FH landed...... even then compulsory purchase order means there is no such thing.
Sorry for being blunt, intent is not cause offence - but I hear this line trotted out by property agents as a selling point.
My current place is 10 years old & FH. It's a matter of time before new masterplan makes it viable for enbloc condo raiders to swarm.
When, not if..... sigh
Key success factors for a good selling condo and will always remain popular:
1) Near MRT
2) Near Amenities
3) Near Good Schools
4) FH
If you look hard enough, you can find them. Some are even selling below 99LH condos!
Sorry, I don't. I can only understand what is written.
As it is written it's hopelessly wrong. My old "kampong" on Leonie Hill seen virtually every single condo over 30 years gone - FH or LH - few exceptions like the infamous Horizon Towers.
Only chance to hang on to anything is FH landed...... even then compulsory purchase order means there is no such thing.
Sorry for being blunt, intent is not cause offence - but I hear this line trotted out by property agents as a selling point.
My current place is 10 years old & FH. It's a matter of time before new masterplan makes it viable for enbloc condo raiders to swarm.
When, not if..... sigh
FH or LH, nothing last forever but the earth and sky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gH_NS3jWXo&feature=related
regardless of location it still depends on plot ratio and current size of the apartments. if all MM and plot ratio no change.. how to enbloc?
Yes, i tend to agree to a very great extent. A lot of focus has been placed on FH vs LH, but what i have realized is that unlike the many existing old FH sites which have very large empty spaces in betw the stacks, several of the upcoming FH projects (small ones especially) have already maximized the use of land space.
If there is no change in the plot ratio, will developers still find it profitable for enbloc and re-development? Say 20yrs down the road, would i end up holding on to a v old condo at a so-so location (without MRT) and yet without enbloc potential? Just sharing some of my doubts on SOMEFH projects, not all.
Yes, i tend to agree to a very great extent. A lot of focus has been placed on FH vs LH, but what i have realized is that unlike the many existing old FH sites which have very large empty spaces in betw the stacks, several of the upcoming FH projects (small ones especially) have already maximized the use of land space.
If there is no change in the plot ratio, will developers still find it profitable for enbloc and re-development? Say 20yrs down the road, would i end up holding on to a v old condo at a so-so location (without MRT) and yet without enbloc potential? Just sharing some of my doubts on SOMEFH projects, not all.
Cannot go up than go down. Cannot up/down than reduce the size of the rooms, etc..
Yes, i tend to agree to a very great extent. A lot of focus has been placed on FH vs LH, but what i have realized is that unlike the many existing old FH sites which have very large empty spaces in betw the stacks, several of the upcoming FH projects (small ones especially) have already maximized the use of land space.
If there is no change in the plot ratio, will developers still find it profitable for enbloc and re-development? Say 20yrs down the road, would i end up holding on to a v old condo at a so-so location (without MRT) and yet without enbloc potential? Just sharing some of my doubts on SOMEFH projects, not all.
I have a feeling plot ratio will be revised upward either in the new masterplan or the next one. It is to the benefit of everyone and the environment.
I guess the general inclination is that prices will inch up assuming that you guys are not saying so due to vested stake in pty.:scared-2:
Hehe. This also means future generations are going to suffer due to high prices. Time to plan for next gen:D
I guess the general inclination is that prices will inch up assuming that you guys are not saying so due to vested stake in pty.:scared-2:
Hehe. This also means future generations are going to suffer due to high prices. Time to plan for next gen:D
Property prices follow a cycle and the long term depends on economic growth. Economic growth for Singapore as a mature state is going to be slow going forward; so property prices will rise moderately in the longer term.
It can be safely said that current prices is at its peak (20-year high) and a price correction is waiting to happen. The cycles are going to be shorter than the previous if there is no major crisis.
Government may be healing advice that we are able to cash out our assets in this generation but the next generation will be challenging. This government has a responsibility (I hope so) to our next generation and thus we expect prudent measures to correct the imbalance now.
...that current prices is at its peak (20-year high) and a price correction is waiting to happen....
well, think about it, for a curve that's going up, any point in it is a "xxx-year high". so this "20-year high" doesn't indicate anything. for example next year it will be a "21 year high", and last year was "19 year high". ;)
as of now there indeed seems to have a sense of "not to miss the boat" sentiment. you can see many old projects suddenly getting substantial activities.
well, think about it, for a curve that's going up, any point in it is a "xxx-year high". so this "20-year high" doesn't indicate anything. for example next year it will be a "21 year high", and last year was "19 year high". ;)
as of now there indeed seems to have a sense of "not to miss the boat" sentiment. you can see many old projects suddenly getting substantial activities.
Ya lor. If population remains the same 2.1m as 20 yrs ago, yes this will be the 20th year HIGH. Not when we already 5m and gov planning for 6-7m
well, think about it, for a curve that's going up, any point in it is a "xxx-year high". so this "20-year high" doesn't indicate anything. for example next year it will be a "21 year high", and last year was "19 year high". ;)
as of now there indeed seems to have a sense of "not to miss the boat" sentiment. you can see many old projects suddenly getting substantial activities.
The thinking is that anything higher is not sustainable given where we are now. No one can tell when is the curve turning; one can only safely say the turning point is just waiting to happen. It could be next month or next year. Imagine if prices go untamed for another year or two? The government will surely intervene at some point if the market fails to correct.
This sense of "not to miss the boat" has happened in every cycle because it is a human weakness or rather what we called in marketing term; Consumer Behaviour. which marketers are exploiting now. People buy because more people are buying. People stop buying when less people are buying.
It is this "sense of not to miss the boat" which is the tell tell sign that the curve is about to turn. We are our own worst enemies.
Maybe "this time is really different"....
Ya lor. If population remains the same 2.1m as 20 yrs ago, yes this will be the 20th year HIGH. Not when we already 5m and gov planning for 6-7m
Population growth should not have any impact on prices. Only supply and demand do. The fact that population has grown and the supply was not match was the reason for price to increase. The government is addressing this temporary imbalance and it will take some time to balance.
Property price increases over the longer term is mainly due to higher income and economic growth. Population growth carefully match by increase in supply will not cause any imbalance in supply and demand thus not affecting prices.
Maybe "this time is really different"....
People said the same thing in each cycle and each time there is no different.
ikan bilis
04-05-12, 16:10
milk power at $50-70 for 2kg... bar chor mee minimum at $3.50... GST also... all record high... will it come down or not ??... sigh, sigh... :scared-3: :scared-3:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3h2EL1gwQ-g/T5_-jUznM9I/AAAAAAAAHWQ/vLiaW3yEzz8/s1600/Property+driver.JPG
http://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap64h.pdf
ikan bilis
04-05-12, 16:13
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3h2EL1gwQ-g/T5_-jUznM9I/AAAAAAAAHWQ/vLiaW3yEzz8/s1600/Property+driver.JPG
wah-say, bro... you really cut and keep all the good stuff.... cool !.. :cheers4:
http://www.ires.nus.edu.sg/workingpapers/IRES2011-005.pdf
The power of google.
milk power at $50-70 for 2kg... bar chor mee minimum at $3.50... GST also... all record high... will it come down or not ??... sigh, sigh... :scared-3: :scared-3:
bro, 3.50 bak chor mee is the new norm liao. food republic or the atas food courts selling chap chye peng for easily $4-6 now.
was at the famous nasi padang stall @ river valley months ago and was charged $6 for A sotong.
can you believe it - $6 for one bloody (or bloodless) sotong
http://www.thewealthreport.net/prime-property/prime-numbers.aspx
was at the famous nasi padang stall @ river valley months ago and was charged $6 for A sotong.
can you believe it - $6 for one bloody (or bloodless) sotong
This is D9 sotong mah, CCR wor.
Cannot go up than go down. Cannot up/down than reduce the size of the rooms, etc..
if already MM... how to reduce further? you need to reduce your own size 1st...:)
I have a feeling plot ratio will be revised upward either in the new masterplan or the next one. It is to the benefit of everyone and the environment.
plot ratio revision also depends on where. those near changi airport will never get their ratios increase enough to build high rise.
or for example. unlikely that flamingo valley be built into a 20-30 floor building with all the landed around right?
if already MM... how to reduce further? you need to reduce your own size 1st...:)
Can, transformable beds are the in thing these days.. even CDL is implementing in their new CCR condo:
http://cdn-sg2.pgimgs.com/images/thumb/a/a/3/a/aa3abf19721506_1_V550.jpg
bro, 3.50 bak chor mee is the new norm liao. food republic or the atas food courts selling chap chye peng for easily $4-6 now.
was at the famous nasi padang stall @ river valley months ago and was charged $6 for A sotong.
can you believe it - $6 for one bloody (or bloodless) sotong
History tells us when prices of Nasi Padang goes up. It never ever comes down again, EVER!
Thats why now people keep saying last time kopi only 50 cents. Do you sincerely think kopi will go back to 50 cents ? Nope! $1 is the new 50 cents
Same like property prices when the backdrop is increased population and same sized Singapore (we can try reclaim a bit more until the door step of Indonesia la). So supply/demand tells u, prices once up, hard to come down (maybe down a few quarters like what we see in Q4 09), but generally, it will be up.
DKSG
Can, transformable beds are the in thing these days.. even CDL is implementing in their new CCR condo:
http://cdn-sg2.pgimgs.com/images/thumb/a/a/3/a/aa3abf19721506_1_V550.jpg
I really like UP @RQ! But a bit too expensive for me.
I really like UP @RQ! But a bit too expensive for me.
Cant wait to see the showflat!
I really like UP @RQ! But a bit too expensive for me.
Like as in location or the design?
How muchy?
See this better, I suspect from the same design firm haha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9nljmEUeLbY
Like as in location or the design?
How muchy?
U gotta see it to appreciate the pricing.
Me not agent.
It has units with 3m, 4.2m, 7.xm ceiling. Thus pricing a bit tricky.
The cheapest I think is abt $2,600++ psf.
Averagely I think about $2,700-$2,800 psf
:D:D:D
DKSG
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