View Full Version : How to stop the shoebox craze?
There has been plenty of discussion here about the crazy shoebox property and majority here seem to suggest that government should introduce cooling measures to contain the shoebox craze.
Question is, should we? or should we not?
what exactly can we do to contain shoebox prices without affecting the already depressing resale market for larger apartments?
There has been plenty of discussion here about the crazy shoebox property and majority here seem to suggest that government should introduce cooling measures to contain the shoebox craze.
Question is, should we? or should we not?
what exactly can we do to contain shoebox prices without affecting the already depressing resale market for larger apartments?The resale market for larger apartments is that that depressing lah... bringing prices down will definitely bring the buyers back to look at larger apartments. :cheers6:
CM to contain shoebox units will not be required if larger units are cheaper... :)
The resale market for larger apartments is that that depressing lah... bringing prices down will definitely bring the buyers back to look at larger apartments. :cheers6:
CM to contain shoebox units will not be required if larger units are cheaper... :)
it is either larger apartment price come down or wait for MM price to chiong higher.
MM will always exist due to Quantum Theory.
Who would stay in a shoebox if could stay in a larger flat apartment nearby for the same cost?
MM will always exist due to Quantum Theory.
Wow Quantum Physics sia cheem SUpER LIkE
Quite a bit like Singapore - to other nations we succeed in mind-blowing ways even though people think we are too small to survive. I think MM is the future of rental apartments, from the way I see how some of our foreign talents can squeeze so many people in very small spaces.
There is even the Govt initiative to persuade them that they need to go for good living environment.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_797277.html
These kind of threads are the exact reason why prices continue to chiong upwards.
FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND QUANTUM THEORY.
That small units should look at quantum and not psf. Psf is for comparing like for like normal or large units except penthouse and patio types.
Wow Quantum Physics sia cheem SUpER LIkE
I quite like MM leh. Walk a few steps you reach all corners of the house and easy to maintain.
Quite a bit like Singapore - to other nations we succeed in mind-blowing ways even though people think we are too small to survive. I think MM is the future of rental apartments, from the way I see how some of our foreign talents can squeeze so many people in very small spaces.
There is even the Govt initiative to persuade them that they need to go for good living environment.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_797277.html
My goodness... Are they trying to "educate" the foreign talents? As if they prefer dirty toilets than clean ones....
I quite like MM leh. Walk a few steps you reach all corners of the house and easy to maintain.
that's why the MMs are suitable for working singles or couple... No need spend too much time to maintain....
In that case that's the way to go for Singapore.... with smaller family units or even just single households...
I quite like MM leh. Walk a few steps you reach all corners of the house and easy to maintain.
I love the part where i just sitting on the sofa, when sky turns dark, i just need to stretch out my arm to the wall switch turn on the light...
I quite like MM leh. Walk a few steps you reach all corners of the house and easy to maintain.
me is opposite..
prefer bigger space house..
:o
Allow me to share my tots on Quantum Play Justification Model Effect:
QPJME theory: rcr MM [downstream] <- CCR MM [ur target] -> CCR studio [upstream], ocr MM <- Alexis [ur target] -> CCR MM
Test question 1: Based on the above Quantum theory, what is the equation for Parc Rosewood MM; and based on the current market, is it consider under or over value [5Marks]
me is opposite..
prefer bigger space house..
:o
I also wish... but no budget ler....
not only to get the space, but also $$ to get someone to maintain the space....
Allow me to share my tots on Quantum Play Justification Model Effect:
QPJME theory: rcr MM [downstream] <- CCR MM [ur target] -> CCR studio [upstream], ocr MM <- Alexis [ur target] -> CCR MM
Test question 1: Based on the above Quantum theory, what is the equation for Parc Rosewood MM; and based on the current market, is it consider under or over value [5Marks]
Skip!!!! Next!
I also wish... but no budget ler....
not only to get the space, but also $$ to get someone to maintain the space....
older HDB 4/5 rm flat is big.. :D
you won't get that kind of size with new HDB flat already:o
My goodness... Are they trying to "educate" the foreign talents? As if they prefer dirty toilets than clean ones....
The government is trying to catch errant dormitories operators. Rem if there is an outbreak, it will spread very fast in the densely populated dorms and to the public.
max LTV of 50% for unit size less than 500 sqft ~ :cool:
the rest use HDB size as benchmark, e.g. hdb (2 bedroom) is 65 sqm, if private 2-bedroom unit size goes below this benchmark, than max 50% LTV, and so on.
this will ensure private developments do not go below the "standard of living" that is set by public housing. :cool:
I also wish... but no budget ler....
not only to get the space, but also $$ to get someone to maintain the space....
Get a wife. Its free of charge.
Akira Fudou
10-05-12, 21:25
Who would stay in a shoebox if could stay in a larger flat apartment nearby for the same cost?
this is not quite possible, unless you are refering HDB vs PC MM.
I dont understand why should the government try to stop the MM craze?
Get a wife. Its free of charge.
not just a wife, a rich wife
btw nowadays wife demands to have maid rather than doing house chores
There has been plenty of discussion here about the crazy shoebox property and majority here seem to suggest that government should introduce cooling measures to contain the shoebox craze.
Question is, should we? or should we not?
what exactly can we do to contain shoebox prices without affecting the already depressing resale market for larger apartments?
Simple Slap a size tax on it! anything build i OCR that is shoe box will have a Additional TAX! like ABSD call ASBSD! Added Shoe Box Stamp Duty. its a multiple on the size. the smaller the higher the multiplier. deter the building of such small units!
this is not quite possible, unless you are refering HDB vs PC MM.
I dont understand why should the government try to stop the MM craze?
Its just to appease the loud mouths brainless attributing overall prce rise to MM high psf.... THAT is all there is. As they see govt respond a bit... They start to attack hdb growing smaller too....
Akira Fudou
10-05-12, 21:30
Get a wife. Its free of charge.
Getting a wife now is like getting a master not a maid. You become the maid
Simple Slap a size tax on it! anything build i OCR that is shoe box will have a Additional TAX! like ABSD call ASBSD! Added Shoe Box Stamp Duty. its a multiple on the size. the smaller the higher the multiplier. deter the building of such small units!
Sure. CBD. As Mr Lim SS said...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y8uUy5uIEAw/T5Fg2Y9we4I/AAAAAAAAAxc/StNX-17Qph8/s320/ShoeBoxNos.jpg
howwww assuming if it accurate.. so manyyy MMss... mmmmmmmmmm
Getting a wife now is like getting a master not a maid. You become the maid
AGREE :cheers4:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y8uUy5uIEAw/T5Fg2Y9we4I/AAAAAAAAAxc/StNX-17Qph8/s320/ShoeBoxNos.jpg
howwww assuming if it accurate.. so manyyy MMss... mmmmmmmmmm
Buy one top mm and quickly rent out first, not only u joined them. U beat them to it...
Getting a wife now is like getting a master not a maid. You become the maid
Get a FT wife. FT for foreign talent, not Full Time.
Akira Fudou
10-05-12, 21:39
As long as prices maintain or cheong, smaller units will get increase interest.
The only problem i can see is couple choose to stay in MM at their ideal locatiion at the expense of having a child.
Smaller units also benefited Developers, so its a win win formula to stay.
Get a FT wife. FT for foreign talent, not Full Time.
FT = good income
FT = maid at home
or both?
I love the part where i just sitting on the sofa, when sky turns dark, i just need to stretch out my arm to the wall switch turn on the light...
Hahaha... Very funny. :)
As long as prices maintain or cheong, smaller units will get increase interest.
The only problem i can see is couple choose to stay in MM at their ideal locatiion at the expense of having a child.
Smaller units also benefited Developers, so its a win win formula to stay.
the couple could buy a bigger place next time after having babies.
they could either sell or rent out MM....
very good plan.... it is always good to get married young...
I love the part where i just sitting on the sofa, when sky turns dark, i just need to stretch out my arm to the wall switch turn on the light...
That's the other 關燈 theory about MM.
That's the other 關燈 theory about MM.
not true ler
nowadays we have remote for TV, Hifi, aircon, lightings.... it works everywhere, not just in MMs!
Get a FT wife. FT for foreign talent, not Full Time.
you are hilarious!! haha burst out laughing at this 1:cheers1:
As long as prices maintain or cheong, smaller units will get increase interest.
The only problem i can see is couple choose to stay in MM at their ideal locatiion at the expense of having a child.
Smaller units also benefited Developers, so its a win win formula to stay.
My neighbour opp stay in < 400sf MM couple with a kid and now the wife expecting.... Move in not even one year only....
Hahaha... Very funny. :)
If my remote run out of batt, i simply stretch out my leg and press the tv controls directly....
you are hilarious!! haha burst out laughing at this 1:cheers1:
If we stay in MM 2gayther guarantee u life full of laughter.... ;)
max LTV of 50% for unit size less than 500 sqft ~ :cool:
the rest use HDB size as benchmark, e.g. hdb (2 bedroom) is 65 sqm, if private 2-bedroom unit size goes below this benchmark, than max 50% LTV, and so on.
this will ensure private developments do not go below the "standard of living" that is set by public housing. :cool:
developer build 501sqft loh :)
phantom_opera
10-05-12, 22:38
1. MM is the side effect of LTV = 40%, instead of getting a 2br, investors can only afford MM or 1br now
2. MM is ideal as a temp home for small family (assume not qualified for HDB) while saving money for bigger home or waiting for price to correct after cashing out ..
3. MM is fun, I can collect MMs in various projects, one has Marina Bay View, one has Reservoir View, one has D15 seaview, one has park view so when I retire ... take turn to enjoy great views
Isn't it fun other than the higher rental yield?
That's the other 關燈 theory about MM.
Omgomgong .... I had to read this 3x to catch the joke!!!
really good one bro salute
Was wondering why u use 关 when i obviously said 开
Simple Slap a size tax on it! anything build i OCR that is shoe box will have a Additional TAX! like ABSD call ASBSD! Added Shoe Box Stamp Duty. its a multiple on the size. the smaller the higher the multiplier. deter the building of such small units!
I think it is easier to control at the source.
perhaps URA can lay down the condition for the site plot ratio. if developer's plan exceed a certain threshold no. for MM apartment, plot ratio we be reduced, so psf cost for developer will rise.
Buy one top mm and quickly rent out first, not only u joined them. U beat them to it...
I think a safer bet is to get something that has some x-factor. be it location, view, services etc.
My neighbour opp stay in < 400sf MM couple with a kid and now the wife expecting.... Move in not even one year only....
maybe MM actually help procreation because apartment too small nothing to do. so couple end up spending more time making love and sleep
I think it is easier to control at the source.
perhaps URA can lay down the condition for the site plot ratio. if developer's plan exceed a certain threshold no. for MM apartment, plot ratio we be reduced for psf cost for developer will rise.
Last year Nov already had the max dwelling units rule imposed but only for GPR 1.4 residential units (divide total psf by 70 sqm) but I guess that measure is limited.
Just side step a little bit.
If MND do clamp down on MM unit say next month, how will that affect the price of existing MM properties.
maybe MM actually help procreation because apartment too small nothing to do. so couple end up spending more time making love and sleep
I do think so too! Esp most MM projects have limited facilities... Additional benefit: when bb cry middle of the night, only few steps can reach the crib. Bb no need cry too long until sore thoat.... bb will not crawl out of window...most MM have large balconies or ac ledge!
I think a safer bet is to get something that has some x-factor. be it location, view, services etc.
actually MM dun really need alot of x-factor as long as well located but if u want super safe can factor in the x-factor, for example those fragrance, macly, oxley.. development MMs the rental yield all super high. One of them is suites @ owen [FYI, it was one of the TOP 3 record holder if I remember correctly in terms of rental $psf/mth]. If you refer to http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/project-listings/suites-owen-1255/sale/1, rental yield so high for first owner, they cant even be bothered to sell the MM 1 bedder
I think a safer bet is to get something that has some x-factor. be it location, view, services etc.
x factor? U mean like aleXis?
Just side step a little bit.
If MND do clamp down on MM unit say next month, how will that affect the price of existing MM properties.
MM = rare in the very future. Those FH/999 ones will be good. Many MM units these days are is mass market projects like parc rosewood, ripple bay, 8 riversuites etc.
But it is true that the MM high $psf is distorting the market isn't it? Because of that, we have all the cooling measures, when in fact the CMs should just need to apply on MM units. :p
Because of the absolutely cheap quantum, all the govt's CMs are just useless and any new rules that apply universally to all type of properties will be useless. Even if they lower LTV to 30% also useless on MMs because what is $280k cash anyway on a $400k MM?
Its just to appease the loud mouths brainless attributing overall prce rise to MM high psf.... THAT is all there is. As they see govt respond a bit... They start to attack hdb growing smaller too....
But it is true that the MM high $psf is distorting the market isn't it? Because of that, we have all the cooling measures, when in fact the CMs should just need to apply on MM units. :p
Because of the absolutely cheap quantum, all the govt's CMs are just useless and any new rules that apply universally to all type of properties will be useless. Even if they lower LTV to 30% also useless on MMs because what is $280k cash anyway on a $400k MM?
Good point u raised... The paw of a cute teddybear no matter how big will still be smaller than the bear itself....
The root of the problem is HDB owners are buying MMs for the purpose of low-quantum investment without the intention of staying in them. To solve this root problem, disallow HDB owners from holding onto their flats after they buy private property. The investment MMs will disappear as the upgraders will truly have to stay in what they buy.
All the CM measures so far have only succeeded in distorting the market.
Of course the HDB owners will cry father cry mother at this suggestion, remember HDB is public housing meant for people who cannot offer private housing.
If you can't accept the above, stop complaining about the proliferation of MMs....
Personally I like MMs. Like phantom, I collect MMs... :D
If you cant beat them, join them
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7240/7171989700_dfe5848ddb_b.jpg
The graph just tells you when the developers launch their MMs en mass, because the buying should coincide with launches.
The root of the problem is HDB owners are buying MMs for the purpose of low-quantum investment without the intention of staying in them. To solve this root problem, disallow HDB owners from holding onto their flats after they buy private property. The investment MMs will disappear as the upgraders will truly have to stay in what they buy.
All the CM measures so far have only succeeded in distorting the market.
Of course the HDB owners will cry father cry mother at this suggestion, remember HDB is public housing meant for people who cannot offer private housing.
If you can't accept the above, stop complaining about the proliferation of MMs....
Personally I like MMs. Like phantom, I collect MMs... :D
Do we have statistic to show how many TOPed MM are rented out and how many are for own stay?
The graph just tells you when the developers launch their MMs en mass, because the buying should coincide with launches.
12/03 surge should be due to watertown??
The root of the problem is HDB owners are buying MMs for the purpose of low-quantum investment without the intention of staying in them. To solve this root problem, disallow HDB owners from holding onto their flats after they buy private property. The investment MMs will disappear as the upgraders will truly have to stay in what they buy.
All the CM measures so far have only succeeded in distorting the market.
Of course the HDB owners will cry father cry mother at this suggestion, remember HDB is public housing meant for people who cannot offer private housing.
If you can't accept the above, stop complaining about the proliferation of MMs....
Personally I like MMs. Like phantom, I collect MMs... :D
I just fail to understand, how can people invest in something they own self will not use. If this is not bipolar behavioral tendency, i know not what is.
Do we have statistic to show how many TOPed MM are rented out and how many are for own stay?
Walk the grounds bro. I have yet to see an MM project more than 10% vacant.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7240/7171989700_dfe5848ddb_b.jpg
Y is ur def < 46sqm? Isnt the official 50?
The graph just tells you when the developers launch their MMs en mass, because the buying should coincide with launches.
It also shows that increasingly the buyers are hdb stayers....
there's no way to stop it unless there's an outright ban. doing so may irk developers. personally, i don't think a family with kids can live in a MM. it's way too tiny for me.
there's no way to stop it unless there's an outright ban. doing so may irk developers. personally, i don't think a family with kids can live in a MM. it's way too tiny for me.
If double income there is absilutely no reason to buy Mm
what exactly can we do to contain shoebox prices without affecting the already depressing resale market for larger apartments?
why must we save the "resale market for larger apartments"?
Because when people buy MM,
- banks don't get to give larger loans
- agents earn less commission
- people are less financially obligated to work for the rest of their lives to pay their mortgage
if couples want to buy MM, let them be ! why should we care whether they have space to raise children. if they have no money to buy a big apartment, what makes you think they can afford to have children?
Policies are anti-singles.
We can't buy HDB (till age 35, n got to buy OLD one)
We take over the work from colleagues who are on marriage leave and maternity leave, plus we have to give ang pow
We subsidise health care for the mothers and children
We pay more taxes because of less tax breaks.
Give the Singaporean singles a break!
Why not change the policy to: only singles are eligible to buy new MM?
That should solve the problem of worrying that couples don't want to have kids cos their apartment is too small. If they still want MM, they can buy resale MM.
Interesting way of putting things into 'perspective' .... on the other hand, you can also see it as not penalising singles, but rather trying hard to encourage more couples & more children :2cents:
Basically, a society can't have too many singles else it's on the rd of 'extinction' or end up getting more foreigners to migrate here rite ...
why must we save the "resale market for larger apartments"?
Because when people buy MM,
- banks don't get to give larger loans
- agents earn less commission
- people are less financially obligated to work for the rest of their lives to pay their mortgage
if couples want to buy MM, let them be ! why should we care whether they have space to raise children. if they have no money to buy a big apartment, what makes you think they can afford to have children?
Policies are anti-singles.
We can't buy HDB (till age 35, n got to buy OLD one)
We take over the work from colleagues who are on marriage leave and maternity leave, plus we have to give ang pow
We subsidise health care for the mothers and children
We pay more taxes because of less tax breaks.
Give the Singaporean singles a break!
Why not change the policy to: only singles are eligible to buy new MM?
That should solve the problem of worrying that couples don't want to have kids cos their apartment is too small. If they still want MM, they can buy resale MM.
I thought the writer got it quite right on shoebox apartments purchased. Many of the assumptions discussed in this forum might not hold anymore.
by Ong Kah Seng
04:45 AM May 11, 2012
Private home buying interest has remained significant despite the Government imposing five rounds of market cooling measures in the past two-and-a-half years, with sales of suburban condominiums remaining buoyant even as prices scale new heights.
The proliferation of shoebox apartments has also meant that more are able to embark upon their personal quest for a dream property. Indeed, the surge in supply of these small units in recent years has been met by overwhelming buyer response.
Whether it is an individual home buyer or joint property investors or
families going for a better quality of life by upgrading from HDB flats,
there is often a strong motivation for targeting that favourite property.
For investors, the motivation is more direct - perceived financial returns.
Investors generally are seasoned property players, although there will be
the new investors. The newbies, together with single owners of small
apartments as well as some HDB upgraders, may have been primed for the
purchase by various factors. They will find that the quest can be both
exciting and stressful.
The majority who embark on buying private property decisions have been
roused in some way.
For some, such awakening may have come from seeing their peers profiting
through property investments and speculation. For some singles who buy
shoebox apartments, it may stem from a desire for independence, to live
apart from their families. There may also be those who have visited friends
who live in private homes and are inspired to own one as soon as possible.
Daily leisure activities may also have shaped one's desire to buy a
property. In addition to fanciful show flats, shopping can also conjure up a
liking towards property. With the arrival of many mega malls and big-box
retail stores that present a convenient array of exciting offerings, the
leisure shopper is spoiled for choice.
Home design concept stores, furniture chains and boutiques showcase all
kinds of DIY offerings or professional services to consumers, some of whom
are planning to own a home. And for those on tight budgets, buying a smaller or far-flung property will become more of an urgency.
Most investors are now also thinking of owner-occupation should the property not be able to be rented out, hence creating another group that can be called "investor-piers". That's also a major property-owning mindset for many shoebox apartment buyers.
why must we save the "resale market for larger apartments"?
Because when people buy MM,
- banks don't get to give larger loans
- agents earn less commission
- people are less financially obligated to work for the rest of their lives to pay their mortgage
if couples want to buy MM, let them be ! why should we care whether they have space to raise children. if they have no money to buy a big apartment, what makes you think they can afford to have children?
Policies are anti-singles.
We can't buy HDB (till age 35, n got to buy OLD one)
We take over the work from colleagues who are on marriage leave and maternity leave, plus we have to give ang pow
We subsidise health care for the mothers and children
We pay more taxes because of less tax breaks.
Give the Singaporean singles a break!
Why not change the policy to: only singles are eligible to buy new MM?
That should solve the problem of worrying that couples don't want to have kids cos their apartment is too small. If they still want MM, they can buy resale MM.
SUPER LIKEEEEEEEEeereeeerr!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tempted to put evergreen on TODO list liao... But i a bit scared.... Rather fierce n fiesty :p
Interesting way of putting things into 'perspective' .... on the other hand, you can also see it as not penalising singles, but rather trying hard to encourage more couples & more children :2cents:
Basically, a society can't have too many singles else it's on the rd of 'extinction' or end up getting more foreigners to migrate here rite ...
Singlehood is humankind natural evolution from base needs to self actualisation.... Its an evolution of the species to a higher level. A species known for overcrowding and inter killing and self destruction such as wars, riots, crimes, murders, diseases eg. Hfmd, hiv, sars.... And the more recently fashionable, cannibalism.
Here in Singapore we practise kenabalism,...
Ehh .. chimme wat's kenabalism?? Why should singlehood be evolution be seen at a higher lvl??
Perhaps there r many ways to evolve lei .. no need to be juz one way rt :P
But that fiesty argument is not entirely wrong lah ..
Singlehood is humankind natural evolution from base needs to self actualisation.... Its an evolution of the species to a higher level. A species known for overcrowding and inter killing and self destruction such as wars, riots, crimes, murders, diseases eg. Hfmd, hiv, sars.... And the more recently fashionable, cannibalism.
Here in Singapore we practise kenabalism,...
It also shows that increasingly the buyers are hdb stayers....
Yes to show the ratio of HDB/PTE buyers. 46sqmx10.76 = 495 sqft
Ehh .. chimme wat's kenabalism?? Why should singlehood be evolution be seen at a higher lvl??
Perhaps there r many ways to evolve lei .. no need to be juz one way rt :P
But that fiesty argument is not entirely wrong lah ..
I tell u why. At risk of sounding religious or philosophical...
We came to this world alone. Alone shall it be when we leave it...
Yes to show the ratio of HDB/PTE buyers. 46sqmx10.76 = 495 sqft
No. The official MM definition is not 500sf but 50sqm which translate to 538sf.
Bro leeds, pls paste complete article for congruent thought flow and message...l thx...
The private home buyer's journey
by Ong Kah Seng 04:45 AM May 11, 2012
Private home buying interest has remained significant despite the Government imposing five rounds of market cooling measures in the past two-and-a-half years, with sales of suburban condominiums remaining buoyant even as prices scale new heights.
The proliferation of shoebox apartments has also meant that more are able to embark upon their personal quest for a dream property. Indeed, the surge in supply of these small units in recent years has been met by overwhelming buyer response.
Whether it is an individual home buyer or joint property investors or families going for a better quality of life by upgrading from HDB flats, there is often a strong motivation for targeting that favourite property.
For investors, the motivation is more direct - perceived financial returns. Investors generally are seasoned property players, although there will be the new investors. The newbies, together with single owners of small apartments as well as some HDB upgraders, may have been primed for the purchase by various factors. They will find that the quest can be both exciting and stressful.
Precursors to buying intention
The majority who embark on buying private property decisions have been roused in some way.
For some, such awakening may have come from seeing their peers profiting through property investments and speculation. For some singles who buy shoebox apartments, it may stem from a desire for independence, to live apart from their families. There may also be those who have visited friends who live in private homes and are inspired to own one as soon as possible.
Daily leisure activities may also have shaped one's desire to buy a property. In addition to fanciful show flats, shopping can also conjure up a liking towards property. With the arrival of many mega malls and big-box retail stores that present a convenient array of exciting offerings, the leisure shopper is spoiled for choice.
Home design concept stores, furniture chains and boutiques showcase all kinds of DIY offerings or professional services to consumers, some of whom are planning to own a home. And for those on tight budgets, buying a smaller or far-flung property will become more of an urgency.
Ready to take the plunge
Upon setting his or her mind on buying a home, the property seeker will likely use different means to source, compare and affirm the property choices. Most property seekers will validate these through studying and understanding district development plans, consulting friends in property and mortgage-related trades to ascertain the property's potential and financing requirements.
The process will be both intensive but exhilarating for the earnest buyer, particularly for one with limited investment background who gets to understand many property and financial concepts.
The recent months have seen tremendous sales perks from developers - in the form of rebates or discounts from listed prices. Such schemes are surely attractive for those who have already tuned themselves psychologically into the mode of buying. The quest for private homes has also extended from developer sales to the resale market recently.
Real journey begins after buying
Buyers who have concluded their house hunting and purchase will be most excited to share the journey with peers. But it must be noted that while the property hunt is thrilling, the actual journey begins after one commits to a purchase.
The real benefits and the financing requirements will go hand-in-hand, depending on prevailing market conditions and whether the rental income is sufficient to meet the mortgage payments and other expenses. These have probably been downplayed in today's context of an increasing desire for wealth opportunities and higher risk thresholds.
The current thinking is that given the large number of uncertainties, whether economic or supply-led fluctuations or possible policy calibrations, a buyer should not think too far but enjoy the direct benefits of owning the property. Since there are so many uncertainties, it is "the journey that counts rather than the destination".
The past decade has seen the prevalence of "specu-vestors", but since the harsh additional seller's stamp duty of last December, speculation has become a thing of the past.
Most investors are now also thinking of owner-occupation should the property not be able to be rented out, hence creating another group that can be called "investor-piers". That's also a major property-owning mindset for many shoebox apartment buyers.
While the destination may not count as much as the journey, if the buyer enters the market at the wrong time or overestimates his long-term financing capacity, the journey will be a long and difficult one.
Ong Kah Seng is director at R'ST Research, an independent property market research company in Singapore.
No. The official MM definition is not 500sf but 50sqm which translate to 538sf.
It depends how you define MM size, for me that will be 46sqm, NUS SERPI uses 47sqm or 506sqft. Impact wise I think the figures will not vary by much.
Bro leeds, pls paste complete article for congruent thought flow and message...l thx...
I thought the mini version did well to reflect the intent of the writer on reasons for buying shoebox apartments with good intention not to bore readers with his lengthy article. Thanks for putting up the full version.
It depends how you define MM size, for me that will be 46sqm, NUS SERPI uses 47sqm or 506sqft. Impact wise I think the figures will not vary by much.
Yea theres inconsistency....
Analysts say 538sf http://www.propwise.sg/what-the-first-quarter-2012-ura-numbers-tells-us-about-the-property-market/
Kbw say 500sf
SRPI say 506sf
So who is right????
Oh I see .. lol
But during the process when u r still on Earth, you can choose to be not alone ... there is always a choice :)
I tell u why. At risk of sounding religious or philosophical...
We came to this world alone. Alone shall it be when we leave it...
I thought the mini version did well to reflect the intent of the writer on reasons for buying shoebox apartments with good intention not to bore readers with his lengthy article. Thanks for putting up the full version.
The core message of the article is on the JOURNEY.
That message was lost in your version. Thx for flagging out the article though.... :)
Oh I see .. lol
But during the process when u r still on Earth, you can choose to be not alone ... there is always a choice :)
Its a choice. But singlehood is being marginalised by policy. Get it?
If you support or pro family, auto will penalised singlehood. Unless you also give reasonable support to this segment.
The core message of the article is on the JOURNEY.
That message was lost in your version. Thx for flagging out the article though.... :)
Yes! Just to flag out the reasons for buying shoebox apartments and not the journey which this thread was all about. Anyway, thanks and do enjoy your journey to this world though.......
Yes! Just to flag out the reasons for buying shoebox apartments and not the journey which this thread was all about. Anyway, thanks and do enjoy your journey to this world though.......
Actually his article is one of the most neutral i seen in recent times.... Kudos to him
Either that or he one of those analysts who switch stance suddenly when the figures prove otherwise.... Eg from oversupply warning to undersupply
From the following what he wrote 1.5 yrs ago, i guess not. He is neutral and objective, which is excellent.
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC101217-0000186/A-penchant-for-shoebox-housing
A penchant for shoebox housing
by Ong Kah Seng
Updated 04:21 PM Dec 17, 2010
Gone are the days where size matters for home seekers. Smaller apartments are making their presence. In the public housing sector, 3-room and studio flats have been re-introduced in new Build-to-Order HDB projects, while new private residential offerings seem to be increasingly smaller, yet popular.
Colloquially referred to as "Mickey Mouse" or "shoebox" apartments, there has been an increased demand for such residential units. The year 2007 saw a spike in sales of units smaller than 500 sq ft, from an almost inexistence to 325 units.
The story continued from there, to 883 transactions last year. While it can be argued that last year was a recession year and therefore small apartments found favour among financially cautious buyers, the heightened interest in shoebox units this year seems to confirm the growing penchant for smaller apartments. This year, a total of 1,421 such units have so far been transacted.
Why the popularity?
To examine why shoebox units have become popular, one must look at the private residential sector in the form of sales activity, pricing trends and product offerings in recent times.
The private residential sector has created various market participants who entered and exited at the right time to achieve tidy profits, reflecting success stories from property transactions. This spurred many other aspiring private home buyers to quickly proceed with a purchase.
However, while one recognises the opportunity from property investments, there are often limitations in one's financing capabilities. Gaining entry into the property game is but a dream unless one has accumulated sufficient funds to make a purchase.
Shoebox apartments are hence a feasible option for interested participants who find it increasingly difficult to own a sizeable piece of private property as prices have continued to escalate. For one, the upfront capital and overall cost of shoebox apartments are smaller and more affordable.
For another, the cost of a shoebox apartment will at most be comparable to that of a larger HDB flat. For a private residential property owner, there is more flexibility in home ownership and re-selling his unit.
Developers who saw this trend were quick in pushing out such projects amid the scarcity. The response has been encouraging and the resale demand for such properties has further reflected the overwhelming interest.
Understanding Challenges
Potential buyers of shoebox apartments need to know that the tenant base for such housing is more restricted than ordinary apartments. Prospective tenants are likely to have significant budget constraints and are often either local professionals or junior expatriates on partial housing allowances.
Some of these tenants may also prefer an HDB flat as it is more spacious for a rent that is lower than that of a shoebox apartment. Companies are unlikely to accommodate upper-middle and senior expatriates in shoebox apartments, who have specific housing requirements. A shoebox apartment will not reflect well on the company, which may in turn affect career and relocation decisions.
Also, living in a shoebox apartment may not be entirely cost effective. Some occupiers may find that there are limited activities within the confined space and prefer hanging out, incurring more entertainment expenses. The real costs of living may be higher than expected.
Relevance for shoebox apartments
Although there are challenges in investments, it does not necessarily reduce the appeal of shoebox apartments. As home buyers are becoming cautious and refraining from buying apartments beyond their reach, shoebox apartments can be smaller, realistic purchases that minimise liquidity risks. Buyers are also able to channel the rest of their funds to other areas, such as travel or enrichment programmes.
There is a potential for shoebox apartments to become more popular among homebuyers. Small sized apartments are common in major cities in the world where properties are costly.
With Singaporeans increasingly exposed to overseas city living, many may become more open to living in confined premises so long as there is privacy and an opportunity to host small gatherings.
The success of the new developments can also potentially create a structural shift in housing preferences and living patterns.
Perhaps a key merit of shoebox apartments for investors is that the tenant does not have to share an apartment with others, including strangers and acquaintances. This minimises friction arising from different lifestyles among occupiers.
Shoebox apartments are also effective solutions to singles who may find regular size housing beyond their means. A single can only buy an HDB resale flat if he or she is at least 35 years old.
Shoebox apartments offer privacy for singles who are not only financially independent but are long psychologically ready for independent living.
A shoebox apartment, in this case, will be bought for owner occupation rather than for pure investment.
Consider the option carefully
The fact is that hardly any property can offer the perfect fit. A cost-effective property usually cannot provide the maximum benefit from both investment potential and capital appreciation standpoints. What is essential for a buyer is to be clear about the motivation in the property purchase - is it for investment or owner occupation?
When prudence is exercised in the home-buying decision, a shoebox apartment can be a worthwhile purchase, offering the opportunity to enjoy privacy and a potential for capital appreciation in sync with the sustained economic recovery.
The writer is senior manager, Research at Cushman & Wakefield.
Yeap of course ... get it get it :p
They will say u can't satisfy everyone .. it's which side u choose to be with ...
Yet to see a govt that can please everyone .. Obama has just taken a risk to say that he supports gay-marriage; any chance he can please the other grp?
Its a choice. But singlehood is being marginalised by policy. Get it?
If you support or pro family, auto will penalised singlehood. Unless you also give reasonable support to this segment.
Yeap of course ... get it get it :p
They will say u can't satisfy everyone .. it's which side u choose to be with ...
Yet to see a govt that can please everyone .. Obama has just taken a risk to say that he supports gay-marriage; any chance he can please the other grp?
He already please the majority of straight or othwrwise else he wouldnt have been voted into office. To support the gays is his PERSONAL stance as he had explained. I am not sure about political suicide, but he remains one of the most genuine US president around, IMO.
Actually his article is one of the most neutral i seen in recent times.... Kudos to him
Either that or he one of those analysts who switch stance suddenly when the figures prove otherwise.... Eg from oversupply warning to undersupply
I believe URA has all the numbers on demand and what supply would meet without causing a crash. My guess is most analysts got it quite right on the numbers. However, my feel is that due to the so call ample supplies such as increase in BTO, EC and more land sales, the supply-driven side has created what we call "induced demand" in economic term which is on top of the actual demand projected.
This induced demand could be people who are happily staying with parents or in-laws step out to buy now. It could also include people who plan to buy later and bring forward their purchase decision. Another important possibility is the location becomes available and thus the decision to buy. Without more options and supplies, a lot more people would not be buying now. Just my thoughts!
I believe URA has all the numbers on demand and what supply would meet without causing a crash. My guess is most analysts got it quite right on the numbers. However, my feel is that due to the so call ample supplies such as increase in BTO, EC and more land sales, the supply-driven side has created what we call "induced demand" in economic term which is on top of the actual demand projected.
This induced demand could be people who are happily staying with parents or in-laws step out to buy now. It could also include people who plan to buy later and bring forward their purchase decision. Another important possibility is the location becomes available and thus the decision to buy. Without more options and supplies, a lot more people would not be buying now. Just my thoughts!
Agree totally. Add to that all the discounts, vouchers, ipads etc to sway those sitting on the fence...
Agree totally. Add to that all the discounts, vouchers, ipads etc to sway those sitting on the fence...
food for thought, what will happen to the overall property market in Singapore if all singles are allowed to buy HDB now? (Taking away the 35 years of age.)
food for thought, what will happen to the overall property market in Singapore if all singles are allowed to buy HDB now? (Taking away the 35 years of age.)
prices go up?! familiies with kids start complaining about the increased competition?! fertility rate divebombs?!
food for thought, what will happen to the overall property market in Singapore if all singles are allowed to buy HDB now? (Taking away the 35 years of age.)
Not sure abt others, but i darn cock sure vote for PAP mext election!!!!!
Eh wait a min.". U means just open up age limit, but those holding pvt still Cant buy??? Then MM prices will plummet.....l?!!!!!
Not sure abt others, but i darn cock sure vote for PAP mext election!!!!!
Eh wait a min.". U means just open up age limit, but those holding pvt still Cant buy??? Then MM prices will plummet.....l?!!!!!
no only removal of the family nucleus rule.
I.e. all singles are allowed to buy now regardless of age.
PC/HDB rules still applies.
I think prices of HDB up
MM FALL
no only removal of the family nucleus rule.
I.e. all singles are allowed to buy now regardless of age.
PC/HDB rules still applies.
I think prices of HDB up
MM FALL
shouldnt affect much as long as rental demand is there.
shouldnt affect much as long as rental demand is there.
True... Granted mostly are for investment and lease out...
For me it was price that made me buy Shoebox. I am happy with it and I think there will always be people look for this type of property.
For me it was price that made me buy Shoebox. I am happy with it and I think there will always be people look for this type of property.
Dear price, what have you done....!!!!!
Dear price, what have you done....!!!!!
actually im a part time property agent! persuaded many to buy shoeboxes!
actually im a part time property agent! persuaded many to buy shoeboxes!
Ic. No wonder so free to tcss wit me everyday
Aiya, just add in the 5 year MOP for unit below 700 sq feet. Sure demand will drop :D
Aiya, just add in the 5 year MOP for unit below 700 sq feet. Sure demand will drop :D
All new purchase subject to 4yrs MOP now what... Agents been using the term interchangeably with SSD anyway.
For me it was price that made me buy Shoebox. I am happy with it and I think there will always be people look for this type of property.
That's right. Nowadays ppty are so high, not much people can afford to pay for bigger floor area. Normally, it is the final purchase price that most people's look at it and not the $psf, so developers are smart, they build smaller units and priced high high where most of the purchasers only look at the affordability without looking at $psf. :2cents:
HDB resale flats are also getting more and more expensive and not everybody is eligible to buy direct from the HDB, so inorder to own his/her ppty, is to go for the MM unit which is within their means. Actually, it is nice to know that those people who bought the MM unit didn't try to stretch their budget, otherwise ..............
Why not change the policy to: only singles are eligible to buy new MM?
That should solve the problem of worrying that couples don't want to have kids cos their apartment is too small. If they still want MM, they can buy resale MM.
IMHO, that's only an excuse, staying in a MM unit also can have children. Nowadays, people only give birth to one or two, unlike older times, a football teams.:D Maybe should set a min size for the MM unit, so that the place is livable.
Actually it's *people* who are saying that *other people* will choose not to have kids if the apartment is too small. All the kaypohs! :D
I don't think min. size should be set, but that showflats should reflect the actual size, floor plans should be drawn to scale and developers not be allowed too much *room* for changes in the actual unit.
Let buyers determine whether they want to buy or not. E.g. people who spend most of the week working overseas may just need a small room / studio to sleep in. Why should they be forced to buy a larger place because *other people* have to be protected from buying without knowing what they're buying?
Money goes into MM, car, holidays, etc. and therefore need to work harder and no time and strength left for making next generation.
IMHO, that's only an excuse, staying in a MM unit also can have children. Nowadays, people only give birth to one or two, unlike older times, a football teams.:D Maybe should set a min size for the MM unit, so that the place is livable.
Since a large portion of the buyers for shoebox apartment comes from people living in HDB flats, MND could enact a law requiring them to sell their HDB flats after they receive their keys to their PC. The demand for shoebox apartment will then be greatly reduced. The new ruling will force serious HDB upgraders to buy bigger PC for own stay instead of for investment.
Resale HDB flats will eventually become more affordable since all HDB upgraders will now have to sell their flats. First timers will now have the option of buying affordable resale flats and thus prices of new BTO flats and EC would be moderated.
It may be too simplistic a solution to tame the growth of shoebox apartments but I think it may just work.
Interesting way of putting things into 'perspective' .... on the other hand, you can also see it as not penalising singles, but rather trying hard to encourage more couples & more children :2cents:
Basically, a society can't have too many singles else it's on the rd of 'extinction' or end up getting more foreigners to migrate here rite ...
Can't assume that those who are single and buy their own apartment are or will remain childless.
Why do we want to do more to encourage the lower income families to have children? If they don't want, leave them be and move on to target the next group: those who can afford to buy private property before age 35 are exactly the type of people that SG needs to raise children. These are the people with money and/or brains.
Improve availability of childcare and provide subsidies to middle to higher income earners.
Although this may seem unfair, this will encourage low income earners to work towards earning more. They will spend their time trying to earn more money rather than keep making babies - which puts them in an even more difficult position to afford a good standard of living.
food for thought, what will happen to the overall property market in Singapore if all singles are allowed to buy HDB now? (Taking away the 35 years of age.)
By allowing singles to buy HDB (of coz they need to have money to buy), birth rate could improve. Won't a man/woman be more willing to marry and have children with someone who already owns a home?
Couples who can afford to buy only by combining income probably won't want to have children so soon because they can barely afford to buy a home.
Note: People who can afford to buy private property - excl the filthy rich - may hold back their purchase because they hope to find a partner and qualify to buy an EC.
Its a choice. But singlehood is being marginalised by policy. Get it?
If you support or pro family, auto will penalised singlehood. Unless you also give reasonable support to this segment.
Agree... no such thing as a pro- without an anti-
more mm good for the economy, in hk ppl rather stay out & spend till it's time to go :sleep:.
All new purchase subject to 4yrs MOP now what... Agents been using the term interchangeably with SSD anyway.
MOP means own stay. No rent out. Just like HDB.
Aiya, just add in the 5 year MOP for unit below 700 sq feet. Sure demand will drop :D
Pte ppty for MOP then it's not pte anymore liao.
Those below 3 feet underground got 15yrs MOP. :o
There is no right nor wrong. Different people has different wants.
Can't assume that those who are single and buy their own apartment are or will remain childless.
Why do we want to do more to encourage the lower income families to have children? If they don't want, leave them be and move on to target the next group: those who can afford to buy private property before age 35 are exactly the type of people that SG needs to raise children. These are the people with money and/or brains.
Improve availability of childcare and provide subsidies to middle to higher income earners.
Although this may seem unfair, this will encourage low income earners to work towards earning more. They will spend their time trying to earn more money rather than keep making babies - which puts them in an even more difficult position to afford a good standard of living.
By allowing singles to buy HDB (of coz they need to have money to buy), birth rate could improve. Won't a man/woman be more willing to marry and have children with someone who already owns a home?
Couples who can afford to buy only by combining income probably won't want to have children so soon because they can barely afford to buy a home.
Note: People who can afford to buy private property - excl the filthy rich - may hold back their purchase because they hope to find a partner and qualify to buy an EC.
Agree... no such thing as a pro- without an anti-
MOP means own stay. No rent out. Just like HDB.
I was referring to new sales of uncompleted units which wont be finished until like 4yrs later anyway...
There is no right nor wrong. Different people has different wants.
I know.
I think it's about time the government gives people more freedom to choose instead of always being a nanny to those who refuse to grow up and wise up (by having repressive policies) at the expense of the others who can take care of themselves.
Tempted to put evergreen on TODO list liao... But i a bit scared.... Rather fierce n fiesty :p
Is this a gay joke?;)
Is this a gay joke?;)
Of coz it is gay. But not a joke... It really Can Be DONE, In the spirit of the Obama office... Are you goodlooking? Are you young? Do you own a few properties? Then you eligible for a place on my To DO most sought after bachelor list...
No lah, I dont qualify :(
Why obama office?
No lah, I dont qualify :(
Why obama office?
Which part dont qualify? I willing to nego wakakaka... As for Obama you no read news on his support for gay marriage? Anyway, to me, marriage is OVER RATED be it straight gay or whatever.
Define young?
I don't own a few properties :(
Define young?
I don't own a few properties :(
Young means less than 40.... The guy currently No. 1 on my list is only like 24 I think....!!!!!
How young are you uncle?:o
How young are you uncle?:o
Born 70s....
Born 70s....
so young. turned gay after mid-life crisis? :D
If one wishes to have children, even 1 single bedroom suffices. Both my wife and I grew up sharing 1 bedroom with 2 other siblings. For her, early years was in a studio apartment. For me was better, in a kampung house shared with a dozen adults and many children. It was the norm for two adults and all their children to share 1 bedroom. A typical bedroom was just a queen sized bed and mattresses all over. If you want to come in, the mattresses are an unavoidable path for you.
It has been commented that 1-bedders are not suitable for families, but for those who who are keen to build families and need housing as they save up and do not wish to incur heavy loans, at the same time unable to get the HDBs of their choice, MM offers a potential lifeline to them as well. It is a viable short term 5-8 years solution until finances are more stable.
A typical family-sized apartment is in the range of around 1 million while a MM unit hovers around 500K. Although the difference in downpayment is relatively small, the loan incurred is double, with the potential for double / triple interest sometime down the road.
At the other end of the spectrum, there are people who buy mansions and huge PCs / HDBs who refuse to have children or defer it forever. They need their huge yards, fully functional kitchens, huge living rooms and bedrooms. And yet do not produce or produce only 1.
If family building should ever be a reason for MND to set laws making it tougher to own small apartments, then Mr Khaw should also set laws regulating that people who own larger apartments have an obligation to the nation to produce children (especially HDB). People who have large living spaces must show clear evidence of their best efforts to procreate.
E.g.
60-80 sqm - minimum 1 child in 3 years.
81-110 sqm - minimum 2 children in 5 years.
111sqm and above - minimum 3 children in 7 years.
My point is, would Singaporeans like laws like that? Or do you prefer the freedom to make rational and logical decisions based on your interpretation of your own situation?
Good one! People are just kaypoh. Want to dictate how other people live when they can't even manage their own lives.
so young. turned gay after mid-life crisis? :D
Born This Way - the gay way. ;-)
Good one! People are just kaypoh. Want to dictate how other people live when they can't even manage their own lives.
I second that. Kelonguni - super duper ilike your post!!!!!
MP also buy MM liao, why stop the showbox craze? Join in!:cheers5: :D
There has been plenty of discussion here about the crazy shoebox property and majority here seem to suggest that government should introduce cooling measures to contain the shoebox craze.
Question is, should we? or should we not?
what exactly can we do to contain shoebox prices without affecting the already depressing resale market for larger apartments?
Why not let the market decide?
MP also buy MM liao, why stop the showbox craze? Join in!:cheers5: :D
MP can't stop them, join them!
MP can't stop them, join them!
800k, TOP sell @ 1.2k cap gain 60%!
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