View Full Version : Median household income by type of dwellings 2001-2011
phantom_opera
10-07-12, 11:41
This is the best stat to judge affordability of properties as it includes employer CPF and breakdown by type of dwellings:
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/pp-s18.pdf
page 9
5rHDB condo landed
2001 ($) 1,218 3,088 4,135 6,411 11,343 12,632
2006 ($) 1,200 2,932 4,191 6,491 10,585 12,328
2010 ($) 1,300 3,788 5,491 8,000 13,177 15,626
2011 ($) 1,492 4,169 6,133 8,788 14,669 17,464
basically those who stay in condo has median family income per month including employer cpf of 14,669
phantom_opera
10-07-12, 11:57
So the annual income including employer CPF (median) will be $176k for the group staying in PC
A condo that cost 1 million will be 5.68y of annual income
A condo that cost 1.76million will be 10y of annual income
for the group staying in 5r HDB, the annual income is about 100k so a 600k 5r HDB is about 6y of annual income and a 5r HDB at 900k will put it at 9y annual income in 2011
:cheers1:
ikan bilis
10-07-12, 12:24
bro, thank you for info.... :cheers4:
Allthepies
10-07-12, 12:25
So the annual income including employer CPF (median) will be $176k for the group staying in PC
A condo that cost 1 million will be 5.68y of annual income
A condo that cost 1.76million will be 10y of annual income
for the group staying in 5r HDB, the annual income is about 100k so a 600k 5r HDB is about 6y of annual income and a 5r HDB at 900k will put it at 9y annual income in 2011
:cheers1:
based on the data above, our housing r still very affordable!
just to check, is the median family income per mth inclusive of bonus?
Interesting read.. :cheers1:
bakasa2002
10-07-12, 15:37
Means earn $1k can afford hdb flat? Lolx...
felicia_sg
10-07-12, 18:20
Earn $1k pm can afford $1k x 12 x 6 = $72k 2rm HDB Wah!
Means earn $1k can afford hdb flat? Lolx...
Allthepies
10-07-12, 20:32
Means earn $1k can afford hdb flat? Lolx...
means most of the citizens can afford a shelter over head.means most of the complaints on expensive housing r false.mean most of the citizens should be happy as we have a roof over our head.
Should be median income per employed resident? sound more realistic esp for those staying in landed. I cannot imagine a couple earning $8k each staying in a landed.
Nice stats. Affordability is just one factor though.
Should be median income per employed resident? sound more realistic esp for those staying in landed. I cannot imagine a couple earning $8k each staying in a landed.
Have definitely. It's affordable, especially terrace. Some non-landed property costs more and buyers earn less than this amount.
Have definitely. It's affordable, especially terrace. Some non-landed property costs more and buyers earn less than this amount.
Downloaded the report and had a quick look but cannot really tell. Quite skeptical of such statistics. I guess they ignore those "outliers" lawyers and doctors who are earning like $20k per month... or the CEOs earning $150k a month...
Or the businessmen staying in landed under declare....:D
Really bad at statistics... hated it in school.
Should be median income per employed resident? sound more realistic esp for those staying in landed. I cannot imagine a couple earning $8k each staying in a landed.Should be a couple earning $8k each buying a landed. Staying is still possible. Anyway, think $16k household income can still afford a 99y $1.9mil inter terrace lah. ;)
Should be a couple earning $8k each buying a landed. Staying is still possible. Anyway, think $16k household income can still afford a 99y $1.9mil inter terrace lah. ;)
Ok ok... better not start another discussion on household budgets. Can someone educate me on the stats? Really catch no:football:
Don't forget.....those $17K income families could have bought their landed in 2005-06 when prices were much lower than now.
means most of the citizens can afford a shelter over head.means most of the complaints on expensive housing r false.mean most of the citizens should be happy as we have a roof over our head.
Most people will never be happy with what they have. Its human nature to desire more.
Should be a couple earning $8k each buying a landed. Staying is still possible. Anyway, think $16k household income can still afford a 99y $1.9mil inter terrace lah. ;)
If they don't over stretch. Disaster planning too? What if 1 party loose job. income cut by 50%.?
Wat if 1 party fall sick with critical illness? Hit by Car n Die?
Can still afford?
If they don't over stretch. Disaster planning too? What if 1 party loose job. income cut by 50%.?
Wat if 1 party fall sick with critical illness? Hit by Car n Die?
Can still afford?
The way Singaporeans live, there is no what ifs...
If worst case scenarios happens, sell and downgrade.
Got insurance to buffer the fall anyway. The world favours people who live as if there is no tomorrow.
The way Singaporeans live, there is no what ifs...
If worst case scenarios happens, sell and downgrade.
Got insurance to buffer the fall anyway. The world favours people who live as if there is no tomorrow.
correct its all in the right planning. Some people spend never think. shit hit fan. cry foul.
phantom_opera
11-07-12, 15:21
The way Singaporeans live, there is no what ifs...
If worst case scenarios happens, sell and downgrade.
Got insurance to buffer the fall anyway. The world favours people who live as if there is no tomorrow.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM1MTk2ODQxNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTY5MDg0NA@@._V1._SY317_.jpg
While median for landed is 17k, the average is 24k ! This means there is a huge dispersion in landed families.
Whereas for apartments especially HDBs, the mean and median is very close.
They should split the landed into terrace, semi-d, bungalow and GCBs, then you'll see the disparity.
While median for landed is 17k, the average is 24k ! This means there is a huge dispersion in landed families.
Whereas for apartments especially HDBs, the mean and median is very close.
But this means the distribution is a bit more skewed lower than average? Also since 17k is median, that means that there are 50% of population that are below 17k per month?
:confused:
But this means the distribution is a bit more skewed lower than average? Also since 17k is median, that means that there are 50% of population that are below 17k per month?
:confused:
Median for landed owners.. Average median household income for Singapore is only 8k I think.
Median for landed owners.. Average median household income for Singapore is only 8k I think.
Yap... I meant 50% of the landed population earn below $17k? Assuming a normal distribution?
Statistics really confuse me...:confused:
I think "median" is different from "mean" or for that matter "average". Given all that my to my math teacher, maybe some genius can explain it better
I think "median" is different from "mean" or for that matter "average". Given all that my to my math teacher, maybe some genius can explain it better
I also half baked... but in summary appears that for Mean if there is higher concentration of data points on either end of the scale, the figure will move more towards it or be more weighted on it.
Thus median is a more realistic measure of the middle ground.
I think "median" is different from "mean" or for that matter "average". Given all that my to my math teacher, maybe some genius can explain it better
From wikipedia
In statistics and probability theory, median is described as the numerical value separating the higher half of a sample, a population, or a probability distribution, from the lower half. The median of a finite list of numbers can be found by arranging all the observations from lowest value to highest value and picking the middle one. If there is an even number of observations, then there is no single middle[1][2]
In mathematics and statistics, the arithmetic mean, or simply the mean or average when the context is clear, is the central tendency of a collection of numbers taken as the sum of the numbers divided by the size of the collection.
Understand or not huh?
Dont know how you guys look at it...
There may be a few cases of resident who can stay in landed with $17k HOUSEHOLD income... but to have 50% of the landed population earning less than $17k?!
Please correct my understanding in case I misintepreted the data.
Haha... I must have been sleeping during statistics
Anyway, say for example for the 70,000 or so landed, there could be 35,000 earning $16,900 to $16,999 and another 35,000 earning $17,001 to $1,000,000 the median could still work out to be $17,000... so $17,000 median income may not be so surprising afterall....
... I think... (not really sure lah)
From wikipedia
In statistics and probability theory, median is described as the numerical value separating the higher half of a sample, a population, or a probability distribution, from the lower half. The median of a finite list of numbers can be found by arranging all the observations from lowest value to highest value and picking the middle one. If there is an even number of observations, then there is no single middle[1][2]
In mathematics and statistics, the arithmetic mean, or simply the mean or average when the context is clear, is the central tendency of a collection of numbers taken as the sum of the numbers divided by the size of the collection.
Understand or not huh?
Haha... I must have been sleeping during statistics
Anyway, say for example for the 70,000 or so landed, there could be 35,000 earning $16,900 to $16,999 and another 35,000 earning $17,001 to $1,000,000 the median could still work out to be $17,000... so $17,000 median income may not be so surprising afterall....
... I think... (not really sure lah)
Haha... me sleeping too. You are probably right...
From wikipedia:
At most, half the population have values strictly less than the median, and, at most, half have values strictly greater than the median. If each group contains less than half the population, then some of the population is exactly equal to the median. For example, if a < b < c, then the median of the list {a, b, c} is b. If a <> b <> c as well, then only a is strictly less than the median, and only c is strictly greater than the median. Since each group is less than half (one-third, in fact), the leftover b is strictly equal to the median (a truism). Likewise, if a < b < c < d, then the median of the list {a, b, c, d} is the mean of b and c; i.e., it is (b + c)/2. The median can be used as a measure of location when a distribution is skewed, when end-values are not known, or when one requires reduced importance to be attached to outliers, e.g., because they may be measurement errors.
I guess the distribution should be skewed since there are those earning many times more than $17k.
Still, to think 50% of landed population below $17k?
I think "weighted average" means giving more weighting on a certain value.
For example.. (just example) the statistician can decide that if multi-income soutce is more accurate than single income source, data collected from multi-icome can have a weighting of say 1.5 whereas single income can be 1.0. The data can then better reflect the average.
I think what you are referring to may be "percentile"....
again... I am not very sure about this.
I also half baked... but in summary appears that for Mean if there is higher concentration of data points on either end of the scale, the figure will move more towards it or be more weighted on it.
Thus median is a more realistic measure of the middle ground.
Well... just looking at my neighbourhood (old landed...many in original condition) I would say about 10% are retirees, some ex-civil servants with pensions. Another 30-40% are middle-aged who bought >10years ago... there is even a taxi driver too. So I would say $17,000 is about right....
Maybe my neighbourhood is a poor landed neighbourhood and not reflective of the typical landed.
Haha... me sleeping too. You are probably right...
From wikipedia:
At most, half the population have values strictly less than the median, and, at most, half have values strictly greater than the median. If each group contains less than half the population, then some of the population is exactly equal to the median. For example, if a < b < c, then the median of the list {a, b, c} is b. If a <> b <> c as well, then only a is strictly less than the median, and only c is strictly greater than the median. Since each group is less than half (one-third, in fact), the leftover b is strictly equal to the median (a truism). Likewise, if a < b < c < d, then the median of the list {a, b, c, d} is the mean of b and c; i.e., it is (b + c)/2. The median can be used as a measure of location when a distribution is skewed, when end-values are not known, or when one requires reduced importance to be attached to outliers, e.g., because they may be measurement errors.
I guess the distribution should be skewed since there are those earning many times more than $17k.
Still, to think 50% of landed population below $17k?
phantom_opera
13-07-12, 14:23
2001 ($) 1,218 3,088 4,135 6,411 11,343 12,632
2006 ($) 1,200 2,932 4,191 6,491 10,585 12,328
you can see that 2001/2006 income not that much difference, one is due to recession, another is cut in employer CPF
most of the rise in income comes in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 ... restoring employer cpf to 16% + max contribution ceiling to 5k also help
phantom_opera
31-07-12, 09:35
Rising demand for banking & finance staff, average salary hike of 6% seen: study
The report, based on a survey of more than 300 of Singapore's senior business and finance leaders. was conducted in June 2012 - PHOTO: SPH
Demand for skilled finance, accounting and banking professionals will remain strong in the last two quarters of 2012, the latest Financial Employment Report by specialist recruitment firm Robert Half said.
In the banking and financial services sector, 9 in 10 firms (90 per cent) plan to maintain or increase the number of permanent finance, accounting and banking staff on their books.
In the other industries, 86 per cent of companies plan to maintain or increase the number of permanent finance and accounting staff.
In the Banking and Financial Services sector, 53 per cent of leaders expect salaries to rise in the next 12 months. Increments could average 6 per cent.
phantom_opera
31-07-12, 09:46
Boston Consulting Group reported that Singapore has the worlds highest number of millionaire households, with 17 percent of all households having at least US$1 million (S$1.25 million) in private wealth.
Singapore also has the worlds fourth highest and is number one in Asia in terms of GDP per capita, at around US$59,711 (S$74,462) per person, exceeding Hong Kongs GDP per capita of about US$49,137 (S$61,284) per person.
Not surprising to have 17% households. There is quite a few of them that I have come across, such as relatives, friends, and business associates. They are all true-blue Singaporeans.
Boston Consulting Group reported that Singapore has the worlds highest number of millionaire households, with 17 percent of all households having at least US$1 million (S$1.25 million) in private wealth.
Singapore also has the worlds fourth highest and is number one in Asia in terms of GDP per capita, at around US$59,711 (S$74,462) per person, exceeding Hong Kongs GDP per capita of about US$49,137 (S$61,284) per person.
phantom_opera
31-07-12, 12:30
Managing director/ Chief executive officer $29,102
Foreign exchange dealer/ Broker $22,302
Marketing and sales representative (institutional sales of financial products) $20,834
Trade broker (including oil and bunker trader) $19,500
Company director $17,142
Financial/ Investment adviser $15,500
Chief operating officer/ General manager $15,005
Commodities derivatives broker $15,000
Ship broker $15,000
Creative director (advertising) $14,750
University lecturer $14,000
Real estate agent $13,952
Software and applications manager $12,280
Advocate/ Solicitor $12,213
Lawyer (excluding advocate and solicitor) $10,900
Financial/ Insurance services manager (eg financial institution branch manager) $10,250
Chemical engineer $10,105
Network and communications manager $10,024
IT service manager $9,999
Managing director/ Chief executive officer $29,102
Foreign exchange dealer/ Broker $22,302
Marketing and sales representative (institutional sales of financial products) $20,834
Trade broker (including oil and bunker trader) $19,500
Company director $17,142
Financial/ Investment adviser $15,500
Chief operating officer/ General manager $15,005
Commodities derivatives broker $15,000
Ship broker $15,000
Creative director (advertising) $14,750
University lecturer $14,000
Real estate agent $13,952
Software and applications manager $12,280
Advocate/ Solicitor $12,213
Lawyer (excluding advocate and solicitor) $10,900
Financial/ Insurance services manager (eg financial institution branch manager) $10,250
Chemical engineer $10,105
Network and communications manager $10,024
IT service manager $9,999
I am surprise to learn chemcial engineer salary is attractive.
Those IT or Software MANAGER pays more like Director level pay
Those IT or Software MANAGER pays more like Director level pay
yes.they are. Most are FT as well as the local don't qualify even if they meet the requiirement, they dun speak the lingo
One Engineering graduate - salary = $000.00 for the last 8 years. Retrenched from an MNC in 2004, jobless since then. This person is ME. Lives in a HDB flat.
One Engineering graduate - salary = $000.00 for the last 8 years. Retrenched from an MNC in 2004, jobless since then. This person is ME. Lives in a HDB flat.
sorry to hear that....
Was it because there are no engineering jobs around or the pay is too low?
One Engineering graduate - salary = $000.00 for the last 8 years. Retrenched from an MNC in 2004, jobless since then. This person is ME. Lives in a HDB flat.
U remind me of a frd i had, oso engineering grad from one of the Ivy league UK unis. He specialises in computer hardware which is a downward trend business.
U remind me of a frd i had, oso engineering grad from one of the Ivy league UK unis. He specialises in computer hardware which is a downward trend business.
I guess manufacturing era has a major downside. Most are sunset industry just like hard disk
One Engineering graduate - salary = $000.00 for the last 8 years. Retrenched from an MNC in 2004, jobless since then. This person is ME. Lives in a HDB flat.
8 years jobless, what do you survive on?
i get it, you are a landlord. i read the "Being a Landlord vs Salaried Job" thread.
so in your case, you decided it is better to be a landlord or perhaps you make your fortune from speculations, then in that case, better to be jobless since you can increased much more of your wealth despite $000.00 for the last 8 years.
smart move by the way, stay in hdb and rent out the many many private properties that you have.
phantom_opera
04-08-12, 19:50
Published: 27 Jul 12
Quit complaining: housing affordability is at 36% compared to more than 60% during the Asian financial crisis.
Houshold affordability is based on the average disposable income level measured as the ratio of monthly mortgage payment to household disposable income,
According to UOB Kay Hian, the 36% level is comfortable compared with the long-term level of 48% and the stretched level of 60-70% in 1996-97.
Although median prices of condos have surpassed the peak levels, UOB said that affordability is still at comfortable levels predominantly due to the extremely low interest rate environment and strong growth in median income in 2011 (+11%).
"SIBOR rates in Singapore are at an historical low of 0.39% compared with the 15-year average of 2.2% and peak levels of 6-7% during the Asian financial crisis (AFC). With interest rates likely to remain low till end-14, we believe affordability levels are unlikely to creep above alarming levels," it said.
=> So even if income stays flat, we have another 24% to go b4 hitting the same level as 1997 ..
One Engineering graduate - salary = $000.00 for the last 8 years. Retrenched from an MNC in 2004, jobless since then. This person is ME. Lives in a HDB flat.
:scared-4:
May I ask how old you are?
=> So even if income stays flat, we have another 24% to go b4 hitting the same level as 1997 ..
In 1997, the PPI was as high as 289
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318698_10151975639335244_1950691234_n.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/pr97-44c.gif
And then the SIBOR...
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396160_10151975657915244_1320504719_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/533242_10151975660575244_212336320_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396160_10151975657915244_1320504719_n.jpg
If we wanna talk high, SIBOR has been as high as 20 or 10.
Looking at the long term trend, how likely do you think it will ever breach that level or even 5 for that matter?
phantom_opera
05-08-12, 10:42
They keep channg the ura ppi reference base so beware, just need to know 1997 resistance was broken only in 2009, let's all use 1997 as reference so we are now we are about 40pc above reference for OCR, another 10pc wiil be 50pc, then another 12pc is 61.8pc follow by 100pc above 1997
For punggol, current psf is 950psf, next resustance means 1050psf and 1150psf and 1550psf, Watertown has it all wow
They keep channg the ura ppi reference base so beware, just need to know 1997 resistance was broken only in 2009
That explains it. Thanks
For peace of mind, affordability of the mortgage can be calculated by assuming int rate at 5%. In fact, I remember now bankers are using the same guideline when approving your loans...
I'm trying now to look for anecdotal evidence of rental rates during that 1997 AFC period to put everything in perspective of the high mortgage int rate and high PPI.
The question is:
In 1997, if prices are all time high, int rate is all time high, is rental also all-time high? And how is the takeup rate then?
They keep channg the ura ppi reference base so beware, just need to know 1997 resistance was broken only in 2009, let's all use 1997 as reference so we are now we are about 40pc above reference for OCR, another 10pc wiil be 50pc, then another 12pc is 61.8pc follow by 100pc above 1997
For punggol, current psf is 950psf, next resustance means 1050psf and 1150psf and 1550psf, Watertown has it all wow
WOw you can chop chop do a financial modelling just like that kakaka... anyway if that is true WTT has priced in the next crisis into its price liao. Amazing
A thought just came to my mind... there's no stopping them from revising the base again. So everything back to sub 100. So affordable.
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 18:27
Per month including employer CPF
median average
5rHDB 8.8k $10,160
Condo 14.5k $18,060
Based on the average, OCR/RCR condos near MRT should be 1800psf on average, 5r HDB should be 1000psf on average :p , 5r HDB and condos are so affordable :banghead:
On yes, Pinnacle@Duxton will be the 1st 1000psf HDB
And 20% of all households have monthly income including employer CPF > SGD13,800 ... :cheers4:
phantom_opera
21-12-12, 11:19
EMPLOYED RESIDENTS AGED FIFTEEN YEARS AND OVER BY GROSS MONTHLY INCOME FROM WORK AND SEX, 2001 - 2011
gross monthly income 2001 2011
$ 7,000 - $ 7,999 23.4k 52.9k
$ 8,000 - $ 8,999 17.4k 42.5k
$ 9,000 - $ 9,999 10.5k 28.3k
>$10,000 48.4k 139.1k
in 2011, about 263k EMPLOYED RESIDENTS are earning > 7k of gross income per month relative to about 100k in 2001
What do u think??? unfortunately it does not break down those earning 10-12k, 12k-15k, 15k-20k, 20-30k and beyond as these are normally owning multiple PCs
phantom_opera
21-12-12, 11:30
interestingly, female high income earners (>10k) has increase 4X since 2001, much faster than male in the same period of 2001-2011 .. it also means PC developers should target high flyers female in their marketing
female
$10,000 & Over 9.6k 40.0k
male
$10,000 & Over 38.8k 99.1k
interestingly, female high income earners (>10k) has increase 4X since 2001, much faster than male in the same period of 2001-2011 .. it also means PC developers should target high flyers female in their marketing
female
$10,000 & Over 9.6k 40.0k
male
$10,000 & Over 38.8k 99.1k
Obviously you did not notice the UV artist impression consist of all female-female couples strolling.... no sight of men.
phantom_opera
22-12-12, 09:56
Obviously you did not notice the UV artist impression consist of all female-female couples strolling.... no sight of men.
now we have 236k residents earning monthly income > 7k per month, 136k more than year 2001 (extra 30+k of new power ladies)
if everyone of single power ladies buy an MM, all the MM owners will huat to the 9th heaven, potential of MM cannot be under-estimated :cheers5:
:p
phantom_opera
22-12-12, 10:02
WOw you can chop chop do a financial modelling just like that kakaka... anyway if that is true WTT has priced in the next crisis into its price liao. Amazing
FEO VVIP price is always peg to market (or slightly above), then they gradually up the prices .... the last 10% always peg near the peak price of current cycle :eek:
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