View Full Version : Who bought, this year?
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
I am not buying now. Who would pay more to buy back what one has sold? Not me. So I will just have to wait or never buy again, since I am already 50 years old.
I see a lot of property bulls here but I wonder if any has bought an investment property this year. Many just talk and criticize those who are not bullish, but which one of you has the balls to match your big mouth?
Go buy a property now if you think prices will continue to go higher and tell us about your purchase. In a few years time, you will know if you are a hero or a moron!
Allthepies
18-08-12, 09:54
Still gems lying around, spotted but didn't buy becos no money to buy @ 40% downpayment :sleep: :sleep:
Government has already set the playground for a steady growth with the numerous CM.
You should keep them for retirement plan as you are 50 years old. I must qualify that ony if they are properties in good location.
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
I am not buying now. Who would pay more to buy back what one has sold? Not me. So I will just have to wait or never buy again, since I am already 50 years old.
I see a lot of property bulls here but I wonder if any has bought an investment property this year. Many just talk and criticize those who are not bullish, but which one of you has the balls to match your big mouth?
Go buy a property now if you think prices will continue to go higher and tell us about your purchase. In a few years time, you will know if you are a hero or a moron!
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
I am not buying now. Who would pay more to buy back what one has sold? Not me. So I will just have to wait or never buy again, since I am already 50 years old.
I see a lot of property bulls here but I wonder if any has bought an investment property this year. Many just talk and criticize those who are not bullish, but which one of you has the balls to match your big mouth?
Go buy a property now if you think prices will continue to go higher and tell us about your purchase. In a few years time, you will know if you are a hero or a moron!
Bought in JB, does tt count?
Juz use projected population over e next 5 years n current investments to estimate e potential in 5 years' time.
wanted to buy but the 40% is deterring me.
Same here....40% + 3% extra stamp duty = cannot buy. :(
Bought two this year.
Might b the biggest carrot.
Nvm, let's see.
I bought... handphone. lol.
we have already bought all we need way way back in 2009. what for enter another position at higher threshold again?? property can do shorting? lol
buy for own stay never a bad time. long long run will not lose. if you can hold it and its not a lemon.
40%+3%+3%...bought one this year for retirement stay...hehehe..:D
Like what bro carbuncle said; "buy for own stay never a bad time. long long run will not lose. if you can hold it and its not a lemon" :rolleyes: .
I bought 8riversuites
Price is high indeed but there are lots of people with cash waiting at the sideline to come in.
Price may go up - good
Price go down - feeling is no good but no problem, i have holding power
I bought 8riversuites
Price is high indeed but there are lots of people with cash waiting at the sideline to come in.
Price may go up - good
Price go down - feeling is no good but no problem, i have holding power
+1 Like ;)
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 11:31
Quickly buy one mm, u lucky Liao mr basic sold all including his roof in august 2008
+1 Like ;)
:ashamed1: I also mean most who bought has $$ power otherwise how to pay 40pct
My unit 60pct loan and monthly installment can fully covered by cpf
80k BTO + private condo were sold, alot to newly wed.. And counting on them to have babies, we can't afford to crash market to put them in financial jeopardy
And there are really lots of liquity out there.. Lots of..
Allthepies
18-08-12, 11:48
Repeated post
Allthepies
18-08-12, 11:50
Unless the interest rate goes there will not be a problem. But when interest rate goes up means economy good? Economy good price can still crash?
Allthepies
18-08-12, 12:01
Can someone comment whether there's wiil be a situation when interest rate shoot up yet economy is in a shitty state?
Unless the interest rate goes there will not be a problem. But when interest rate goes up means economy good? Economy good price can still crash?
interest rates goes up dont mean economy is good. could mean lack of liquidity or banking fear thus spike in interest rate.
Allthepies
18-08-12, 12:08
interest rates goes up dont mean economy is good. could mean lack of liquidity or banking fear thus spike in interest rate.
Oh I see so in our current situation--
Liquidity high unless US economy recovers, Liquidity high interest rate to remain low.
US economy not good implies interest rate remains low?
maybe during protracted sustained financial crisis deeply handicapping banks and lenders?
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 12:18
Hint: US 10y bond yield
Allthepies
18-08-12, 12:19
Hint: US 10y bond yield
It is going up does it means SIBOR gg to go up soon?!
Can someone comment whether there's wiil be a situation when interest rate shoot up yet economy is in a shitty state?
Can try buying India property.
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 12:24
It is going up does it means SIBOR gg to go up soon?!
If it goes up to 2.5pc sibor may up to 0.6, if 3pc sibor could go 0.8
Unless the interest rate goes there will not be a problem. But when interest rate goes up means economy good? Economy good price can still crash?
Even interest rate double, it's just <$1k more per month, don't think will have much impact..
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 12:29
Dun mean to scare u, sibor should be at least 4pc to combat high inflation
Interest rate is way too low. Hurting savers n rewarding borrowers.
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
I am not buying now. Who would pay more to buy back what one has sold? Not me. So I will just have to wait or never buy again, since I am already 50 years old.
I see a lot of property bulls here but I wonder if any has bought an investment property this year. Many just talk and criticize those who are not bullish, but which one of you has the balls to match your big mouth?
Go buy a property now if you think prices will continue to go higher and tell us about your purchase. In a few years time, you will know if you are a hero or a moron!
cannot buy cos caught by ABSD and limited to 60% loan LTV.
I am waiting for a minor correction so I can get a Mt Sinai property.
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 13:22
I am waiting for a minor correction so I can get a Mt Sinai property.
minor one like 10% won't make it, you need to be like Mr B, 50% by 2015 ... this is because property will go up at least 5% every year in line with inflation rate
minor one like 10% won't make it, you need to be like Mr B, 50% by 2015 ... this is because property will go up at least 5% every year in line with inflation rate
I agree that the inflation would erode the advantage of correction(s). In order to overcome this inflationary threats, I am currently actively saving all the disposal rental income, preparing to launch the coup should there is a reasonable correction and pricing to the areas I am aiming at, i.e. Mt Sinai or Siglap.
It is still possible.
Can try buying India property.
go to parkway parade on saturday morning,,,,u will be surrounded by indians....then DECIDE if u want to buy indian properties...:scared-4:
I agree that the inflation would erode the advantage of correction(s). In order to overcome this inflationary threats, I am currently actively saving all the disposal rental income, preparing to launch the coup should there is a reasonable correction and pricing to the areas I am aiming at, i.e. Mt Sinai or Siglap.
It is still possible.
Siglap Siglap Siglap....BYE BYE soon:doh:
Siglap Siglap Siglap....BYE BYE soon:doh:
Siglap is a nice cosy neighbourhood. Meyer drive is equally good. However, I prefer Mt Sinai followed by Siglap.
I am aiming to get either Mt Sinai or Siglap area.
I am waiting for a minor correction so I can get a Mt Sinai property.
...or a minor earthquake...i think got more chance of EARTHQUAKE...:rolleyes:
i have 7 properties, 1 self stay, 1 BUC, the other 5 all rented out.
agents have been asking me to sell but i don't see the need to because i am still young and selling is not really my exit strategy at this point in time. i did a simulation and i think i can still survive if i can simply rent 2 out of the 5 units. my properties are for passive income.
i am currently looking at some resales in D15 near to ERL or River Valley area. but thus far the prices i must say are not very convincing because I will have to put 40% downpayment CASH. currently i am exploiting the volatile markets to get ready the cash by sept and i will prob make a purchase in Sept/Oct when the transactions go down.
for those who want to wait, i would say 2013 is a better time to buy when all the Dragon leaves.
Interest rate is way too low. Hurting savers n rewarding borrowers.
No wonder MR B needs it down by 30% now.. & 50% in 2015.. Just to breakeven.. With his hard earn $$ inside the bank a/c
Held 4, sold 1. Looking to up my own stay. Post Oct 2012 looks nice to go shopping..
I was struggling to decide if I should invest in a new condo as I sold my previous investment. In the end, I went ahead and bought a MM unit in the north early this year. I took a very small loan so I thought if things go bad, I will move into the unit with my wife and rent out our fully paid HDB flat which is directly beside mrt near town.
Anyone thinking of investing now should be very careful as the market outlook is not clear like a few years back. most importantly is not to take too much loan.
i have 7 properties, 1 self stay, 1 BUC, the other 5 all rented out.
agents have been asking me to sell but i don't see the need to because i am still young and selling is not really my exit strategy at this point in time. i did a simulation and i think i can still survive if i can simply rent 2 out of the 5 units. my properties are for passive income.
i am currently looking at some resales in D15 near to ERL or River Valley area. but thus far the prices i must say are not very convincing because I will have to put 40% downpayment CASH. currently i am exploiting the volatile markets to get ready the cash by sept and i will prob make a purchase in Sept/Oct when the transactions go down.
for those who want to wait, i would say 2013 is a better time to buy when all the Dragon leaves.
Do u happen to be a ex-pilot whom retired damn young cos u ultra leveraged during your young days and made it early? U also don't drive any fancy car.?....
I was struggling to decide if I should invest in a new condo as I sold my previous investment. In the end, I went ahead and bought a MM unit in the north early this year. I took a very small loan so I thought if things go bad, I will move into the unit with my wife and rent out our fully paid HDB flat which is directly beside mrt near town.
Anyone thinking of investing now should be very careful as the market outlook is not clear like a few years back. most importantly is not to take too much loan.
This low interest rate situation and the Europe crisis could be going on for years...when we look back, we will always say, hei, I should have took advantage of the low interest rate situation and buy more. But, we never know. The govt has already help us to prevent what's going on in US and what's going on in Spain. even China is actively trying to pull the property bull to prevent those ugly situations...
So there is a good chance that it will be the same for the next 10 yrs...I mean good chance! Be prudent and take a bold step! :cheers4:
Do u happen to be a ex-pilot whom retired damn young cos u ultra leveraged during your young days and made it early? U also don't drive any fancy car.?....
no la not ex-pilot. still working in IB now. too young to retire, although i can if i want to, but i will probably have to change my lifestyle. i drove a SLK but sold it earlier this year for a profit (who've thought that cars can earn money too LOL), and now left with just my Golf. A bit regret selling the SLK but anyway never mind Golf is just simple enough for a single guy like me.
i won't say that i made it out myself - must thank my late Dad who had the foresight in leaving me fully paid up properties. my Dad left everything to me because my Mum remarried (someone richer than my Dad) overseas. Dad was a simple banker in the past but because of the failed marriage he went into Property and he was the one who 'ultra-leveraged' when i was still a kid. but he was a daredevil and when i was in uni he guided me in forex and equities. so he taught me how to be fearless with money, although he had a bad habit i.e. gambling, which i've always frowned upon. he actually believe in LUCK, while i don't.
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 14:38
no la not ex-pilot. still working in IB now. too young to retire, although i can if i want to, but i will probably have to change my lifestyle. i drove a SLK but sold it earlier this year for a profit (who've thought that cars can earn money too LOL), and now left with just my Golf. A bit regret selling the SLK but anyway never mind Golf is just simple enough for a single guy like me.
i won't say that i made it out myself - must thank my late Dad who had the foresight in leaving me fully paid up properties. my Dad left everything to me because my Mum remarried (someone richer than my Dad) overseas. Dad was a simple banker in the past but because of the failed marriage he went into Property and he was the one who 'ultra-leveraged' when i was still a kid. but he was a daredevil and when i was in uni he guided me in forex and equities. so he taught me how to be fearless with money, although he had a bad habit i.e. gambling, which i've always frowned upon. he actually believe in LUCK, while i don't.
U so open in internet, be careful IRAS tracks you down. I am sure IRAS has special agent reading through each post here. IF you own so many properties, why not go into semi-retirement and do something meaningful like charity?
I was struggling to decide if I should invest in a new condo as I sold my previous investment. In the end, I went ahead and bought a MM unit in the north early this year. I took a very small loan so I thought if things go bad, I will move into the unit with my wife and rent out our fully paid HDB flat which is directly beside mrt near town.
Anyone thinking of investing now should be very careful as the market outlook is not clear like a few years back. most importantly is not to take too much loan.
yup mr key you have a clear exit strategy, and it's a wise choice and good thinking. all the best!
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 14:39
Held 4, sold 1. Looking to up my own stay. Post Oct 2012 looks nice to go shopping..
u appear in IRAS radar right now ... never reveal how many properties u have
no la not ex-pilot. still working in IB now. too young to retire, although i can if i want to, but i will probably have to change my lifestyle. i drove a SLK but sold it earlier this year for a profit (who've thought that cars can earn money too LOL), and now left with just my Golf. A bit regret selling the SLK but anyway never mind Golf is just simple enough for a single guy like me.
i won't say that i made it out myself - must thank my late Dad who had the foresight in leaving me fully paid up properties. my Dad left everything to me because my Mum remarried (someone richer than my Dad) overseas. Dad was a simple banker in the past but because of the failed marriage he went into Property and he was the one who 'ultra-leveraged' when i was still a kid. but he was a daredevil and when i was in uni he guided me in forex and equities. so he taught me how to be fearless with money, although he had a bad habit i.e. gambling, which i've always frowned upon. he actually believe in LUCK, while i don't.
Hi. Do you have any opportunity for me and/or my wife in your workplace?
u appear in IRAS radar right now ... never reveal how many properties u have
Everyone is in their radar.
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
I am not buying now. Who would pay more to buy back what one has sold? Not me. So I will just have to wait or never buy again, since I am already 50 years old.
I see a lot of property bulls here but I wonder if any has bought an investment property this year. Many just talk and criticize those who are not bullish, but which one of you has the balls to match your big mouth?
Go buy a property now if you think prices will continue to go higher and tell us about your purchase. In a few years time, you will know if you are a hero or a moron!
I got one solely for investment this year. Not buying in speculation of further increasing prices. I also don't think it will keep going up. It's for rental income and possibility of second housing for my future generation or even personal retirement, HDB fully paid up.
In economics terms, housing demand is a highly inelastic type of demand. Supply is controlled and restricted. Together with the steady inflation rate, money can only become smaller. 5 years ago, cash is king, now I'm really not sure.
Together with the steady inflation rate, money can only become smaller. 5 years ago, cash is king, now I'm really not sure.
there's too much money floating in the market...with so many countries printing money like nobody's business, things have gotten so ridiculous and yet, wages and exports remain stagnant - we are all in for some serious shit.....
If you have $1m, split into 3 parts. 50% Prop, 30% Cash, 20% Equity.
Your late dad has done the right thing. :hell-hath-no-fury: Rental from fully paid up properties can give you lifestyle. :cheers4:
no la not ex-pilot. still working in IB now. too young to retire, although i can if i want to, but i will probably have to change my lifestyle. i drove a SLK but sold it earlier this year for a profit (who've thought that cars can earn money too LOL), and now left with just my Golf. A bit regret selling the SLK but anyway never mind Golf is just simple enough for a single guy like me.
i won't say that i made it out myself - must thank my late Dad who had the foresight in leaving me fully paid up properties. my Dad left everything to me because my Mum remarried (someone richer than my Dad) overseas. Dad was a simple banker in the past but because of the failed marriage he went into Property and he was the one who 'ultra-leveraged' when i was still a kid. but he was a daredevil and when i was in uni he guided me in forex and equities. so he taught me how to be fearless with money, although he had a bad habit i.e. gambling, which i've always frowned upon. he actually believe in LUCK, while i don't.
If you have $1m, split into 3 parts. 50% Prop, 30% Cash, 20% Equity.
50% of $1m can only get MM or hdb leh, unless u leverage.
50% of $1m can only get MM or hdb leh, unless u leverage.
You intend to pay in full when interest rates are so low?
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 15:53
Everyone is in their radar.
don't help them to decide to investigate someone ... investigation is costly to them too so they will be selective...recently our dear forumer friend mm king hit already
50% of $1m can only get MM or hdb leh, unless u leverage.
You intend to pay in full when interest rates are so low?
don't help them to decide to investigate someone ... investigation is costly to them too so they will be selective...recently our dear forumer friend mm king hit already
oh? who ???
Have been keeping all my properties and not sold any. It is a great satifsfaction by looking at the ltitle deeds. Just like degrees.
Held 4, sold 1. Looking to up my own stay. Post Oct 2012 looks nice to go shopping..
My friend bought UP along Singapore River.
I like that area.
Thanks,
Richard
Allthepies
18-08-12, 16:13
If it goes up to 2.5pc sibor may up to 0.6, if 3pc sibor could go 0.8
Very insightful, will keep a watch on 10 years yield
Regulators
18-08-12, 16:18
That is pretty impressive, are your properties fully paid and which part of singapore are they?
i have 7 properties, 1 self stay, 1 BUC, the other 5 all rented out.
agents have been asking me to sell but i don't see the need to because i am still young and selling is not really my exit strategy at this point in time. i did a simulation and i think i can still survive if i can simply rent 2 out of the 5 units. my properties are for passive income.
i am currently looking at some resales in D15 near to ERL or River Valley area. but thus far the prices i must say are not very convincing because I will have to put 40% downpayment CASH. currently i am exploiting the volatile markets to get ready the cash by sept and i will prob make a purchase in Sept/Oct when the transactions go down.
for those who want to wait, i would say 2013 is a better time to buy when all the Dragon leaves.
That is pretty impressive, are your properties fully paid and which part of singapore are they?
See your nick very scary. :eek: Don't think you'll get any answer.
Regulators
18-08-12, 17:34
Lol real regulator got no time for more than 4000 postings.
See your nick very scary. :eek: Don't think you'll get any answer.
Rental income not easy to earn one la ...
Must get tenant when lease it up, handle those unscrupulous agents, sometimes tenant create trouble.
Pay all sorts of taxes like GST, Property Tax, Income tax.
Every month, depending on individual cases, if got interest, earn a 2-3 thousand dollars only.
One set of income, multiple taxes, sometimes really thought of selling away the property and take back the hundreds of thousands.
DKSG
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 18:33
Rental income not easy to earn one la ...
Must get tenant when lease it up, handle those unscrupulous agents, sometimes tenant create trouble.
Pay all sorts of taxes like GST, Property Tax, Income tax.
Every month, depending on individual cases, if got interest, earn a 2-3 thousand dollars only.
One set of income, multiple taxes, sometimes really thought of selling away the property and take back the hundreds of thousands.
DKSG
agree ... my low risk 10y corp bond yields about the same but no sweat, no agent, no tax ... with such a low leverage (40% downpayment) ... NOT WORTH IT !!! The only exception may be HDB near MRT
I mean good chance! Be prudent and take a bold step! :cheers4:
Yes Lajia, with the europe crisis and slowing growth in China, its really hard to predict what will happen in the future. Like you, I am cautiously optimistic and see a good chance for capital appreciation. The world-wide money printing reminds me of the 70s era when the U.S also printed a lot of money (less than now) and indirectly caused property prices to double up. :cheers4:
yup mr key you have a clear exit strategy, and it's a wise choice and good thinking. all the best!
Thank you Eastboy, I must say that I have learned quite abit from the forum. All the best to you too.
Bought 1 this year, just after the ABSD came out, so pay extra 3%:banghead: , but ok, price more than 3% lower...:D , gone up since:cheers4:
Bought 1 last year and another the year before. Intend to buy another next year.... Decided that I'm not smart enough to time the market... So dollar cost average every year... If price go up :cheers4: , if price go down, buy bigger one....
As long as the long term trend is up, i'm fine:2cents:
Bought 1 this year, just after the ABSD came out, so pay extra 3%:banghead: , but ok, price more than 3% lower...:D , gone up since:cheers4:
Bought 1 last year and another the year before. Intend to buy another next year.... Decided that I'm not smart enough to time the market... So dollar cost average every year... If price go up :cheers4: , if price go down, buy bigger one....
As long as the long term trend is up, i'm fine:2cents:Wah... strong financial position. One property a year. Sounds like you save like $300k to $500k a year to afford one property a year. Cheers! :cheers5:
40% + 3% ABSD plus the potential rise in mortgage interest rate is putting in off! :scared-5:
Wah... strong financial position. One property a year. Sounds like you save like $300k to $500k a year to afford one property a year. Cheers! :cheers5:
Used to be easier with 80%ltv, then became 70% and now 60% + 3%...:banghead:
Rental + salary + dividends adds up to make down payment... May have to liquidate some stocks to get the next one.
The point is that instead over say buying a 4mil property if you can, spend your risk out to 4 1 mil property over 4 years to manage risks...:2cents:
phantom_opera
18-08-12, 22:45
30 years could be IRAS fishing agent ?? :scared-3: :eek: :scared-1: :cutedoggy:
Used to be easier with 80%ltv, then became 70% and now 60% + 3%...:banghead:
Rental + salary + dividends adds up to make down payment... May have to liquidate some stocks to get the next one.
The point is that instead over say buying a 4mil property if you can, spend your risk out to 4 1 mil property over 4 years to manage risks...:2cents:
Most would envy your position, 1 property a year. Perhaps you are among those who helped keep the Dragon going. Since early 2011,:banghead: have been waiting for prices to inch down a bit, but it never came. At today's prices, it is madness unless one has lots of spare cash. But then agan, lots of experts have been saying this for the past 2 years but prices are still moving north.
30 years could be IRAS fishing agent ?? :scared-3: :eek: :scared-1: :cutedoggy:
Didn't 30years told you he has been jobless for the last 8 years and has to depend on his property investments and stock market speculation for a living?
If IRAS would give me a job with a fixed salary, I don't mind being their agent.
Last couple of weeks, I had to wake up at 5.20am to get ready to sell Soybeans when the market opens at 6am, hoping to make some pocket money to pay for daily meals.
Didn't 30years told you he has been jobless for the last 8 years and has to depend on his property investments and stock market speculation for a living?
If IRAS would give me a job with a fixed salary, I don't mind being their agent.
Last couple of weeks, I had to wake up at 5.20am to get ready to sell Soybeans when the market opens at 6am, hoping to make some pocket money to pay for daily meals.
at least u are very fortunate to have achieved a portfolio of properties and investments to keep things going :D believe many are not as lucky:2cents:
Bought 1 this year, just after the ABSD came out, so pay extra 3%:banghead: , but ok, price more than 3% lower...:D , gone up since:cheers4:
Bought 1 last year and another the year before. Intend to buy another next year.... Decided that I'm not smart enough to time the market... So dollar cost average every year... If price go up :cheers4: , if price go down, buy bigger one....
As long as the long term trend is up, i'm fine:2cents:
good advice...I'm trying to achieve that but started late and still have a few more to go:p but the current overpriced market, lousy location and layout and super congested projects are really:doh:
buttercarp
19-08-12, 08:53
Didn't 30years told you he has been jobless for the last 8 years and has to depend on his property investments and stock market speculation for a living?
If IRAS would give me a job with a fixed salary, I don't mind being their agent.
Last couple of weeks, I had to wake up at 5.20am to get ready to sell Soybeans when the market opens at 6am, hoping to make some pocket money to pay for daily meals.
@30years.......
U sell tau huey n tau huey chui?
Lemme guess...... U r the tau keh n now u employ less people to cut cost n now u have to be the person dispensing the drinks?
What about the profit from your sales?
Should be sufficient to buy daily meals.
ikan bilis
19-08-12, 09:40
think he is talking about soft commodity...
phantom_opera
19-08-12, 10:40
@30years.......
U sell tau huey n tau huey chui?
Lemme guess...... U r the tau keh n now u employ less people to cut cost n now u have to be the person dispensing the drinks?
What about the profit from your sales?
Should be sufficient to buy daily meals.
he is into commodities (futures) trading ... basically is gambling :doh:
Most would envy your position, 1 property a year. Perhaps you are among those who helped keep the Dragon going. Since early 2011,:banghead: have been waiting for prices to inch down a bit, but it never came. At today's prices, it is madness unless one has lots of spare cash. But then agan, lots of experts have been saying this for the past 2 years but prices are still moving north.
Yes, prices have been inching up, good enough for me.
In today's high inflation, low interest rate conditions, keeping money in the bank doesn't make sense.
When I got the 1st property 2 years ago, it was bought at 80% LTV, prices have gone up since, the loan to value is now at 60%, similarly the 2nd one acquired at 70% 1 year ago is at 60% loan to value. So I'm not over leveraged as it is.... I love inflation.
Of course the last one is already at 60%.
For this strategy to work, the properties have to be self financing from rentals, or even have surplus.
The exit strategy is like this:
When I need to retire or when interest rates go up. I hope to be at 50% LTV or lower (almost there, no thanks to 60ltv). That way, I can sell half the properties on fully repay the banks. Or even hold onto all of them if the LTV becomes so low that the rentals are more than enough... We'll see.
he is into commodities (futures) trading ... basically is gambling :doh:
He is making big time now. :cheers5:
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/forecast-us-drought-lingering-but-leveling-off/article_93cdf9d2-6fd4-5acc-a316-68f2bfdd7296.html
Yes, prices have been inching up, good enough for me.
In today's high inflation, low interest rate conditions, keeping money in the bank doesn't make sense.
When I got the 1st property 2 years ago, it was bought at 80% LTV, prices have gone up since, the loan to value is now at 60%, similarly the 2nd one acquired at 70% 1 year ago is at 60% loan to value. So I'm not over leveraged as it is.... I love inflation.
Of course the last one is already at 60%.
For this strategy to work, the properties have to be self financing from rentals, or even have surplus.
The exit strategy is like this:
When I need to retire or when interest rates go up. I hope to be at 50% LTV or lower (almost there, no thanks to 60ltv). That way, I can sell half the properties on fully repay the banks. Or even hold onto all of them if the LTV becomes so low that the rentals are more than enough... We'll see.
Very sensible strategy with an exit plan.
The test will come when interest goes up, rental and prices fall and you can't clear the properties at the level you want, bearing in mind the current higher cost of transaction (buying & selling).
Very sensible strategy with an exit plan.
The test will come when interest goes up, rental and prices fall and you can't clear the properties at the level you want, bearing in mind the current higher cost of transaction (buying & selling).
No risk no gain.... Need to keep enough reserves to tide over crisis....
No risk no gain.... Need to keep enough reserves to tide over crisis....
Thats the spirit!:cheers4:
No risk no gain.... Need to keep enough reserves to tide over crisis....Your risk appetite is pretty big... Cheers!!! :cheers1:
sgkingkong
19-08-12, 13:38
I bought one this year too...
Got a good deal considering current market. However, the current market is high, I and I have reserves about how much more it can grow.
However, its for own stay and thus any price movement is only on paper.
Just curious.. how you all consider over-leverage.
If you have $1mil and it is invested in bonds/equities and you buy a $1mil property with 60% loan, is it consider over-leverage?
And I noticed some people's strategy is to draw out equity loan from the REVALUED property to buy another property. How would the bank react if a similar crisis like 2009 comes and property prices drop 30%? would they ask you to top up?
Does not affect those with holding power.
Very sensible strategy with an exit plan.
The test will come when interest goes up, rental and prices fall and you can't clear the properties at the level you want, bearing in mind the current higher cost of transaction (buying & selling).
Never leverage on equity loan especially for those investment properties in the last two years. IMO, Too risky.
Just curious.. how you all consider over-leverage.
If you have $1mil and it is invested in bonds/equities and you buy a $1mil property with 60% loan, is it consider over-leverage?
And I noticed some people's strategy is to draw out equity loan from the REVALUED property to buy another property. How would the bank react if a similar crisis like 2009 comes and property prices drop 30%? would they ask you to top up?
Never leverage on equity loan especially for those investment properties in the last two years. IMO, Too risky.
anytime bo tai bo chi also can end up in margin call.
I do not mean equity as in shares.
I mean the equity(capital available) from the revalued property.
There's this trainer and his buddy from a seminar doing that.
They got only $1mil I guess.. and they have $5-6mil property thru' the buying more property as the property gets revalued and they take out the equity.
risks s low in good times but not during times of uncertainty. This is over-leveraging. Did you ask them what will happen if market corrects 20% with the 5-6 million properties?
I do not mean equity as in shares.
I mean the equity(capital available) from the revalued property.
There's this trainer and his buddy from a seminar doing that.
They got only $1mil I guess.. and they have $5-6mil property thru' the buying more property as the property gets revalued and they take out the equity.
A real case. A townhouse in D10 was bought in 2001 for abt 2mil. During 2007, valuation went up dramatically to 5mil. Took out equity loan and invested in another 2 pties. In 2009 crisis, bank did not ask for top up, probably because the downturn was too short to see any real crash.
Personal opinion : it really depends. For dramatic cases like this 2mil asset valued at 5mil, it would be quite an opportunity lost if you dun monetize it. Such dramatic appreciation was due to someting else non organic. However for a small appreciation say a few hundred k, the valuation at down time can drop a lot even without any real transaction to benchmark. To take out this few hundred k and leverage out will be risky.
At least can sleep well without nightmare.
A real case. A townhouse in D10 was bought in 2001 for abt 2mil. During 2007, valuation went up dramatically to 5mil. Took out equity loan and invested in another 2 pties. In 2009 crisis, bank did not ask for top up, probably because the downturn was too short to see any real crash.
Personal opinion : it really depends. For dramatic cases like this 2mil asset valued at 5mil, it would be quite an opportunity lost if you dun monetize it. Such dramatic appreciation was due to someting else non organic. However for a small appreciation say a few hundred k, the valuation at down time can drop a lot even without any real transaction to benchmark. To take out this few hundred k and leverage out will be risky.
risks s low in good times but not during times of uncertainty. This is over-leveraging. Did you ask them what will happen if market corrects 20% with the 5-6 million properties?
Can't be bothered with them :)
I just like attending all these foc seminars. ;)
Seminar junkie.
Quite a bit of Senior agents are doing this before the CMs. Some of these foc seminars should be audited by CEA. Lots of overselling. .
Can't be bothered with them :)
I just like attending all these foc seminars. ;)
Seminar junkie.
I sold mine, in 2010 and 2011. Last few transacted prices for similar units about 30% higher. Property prices has indeed gone higher. I sold thinking that prices would stay flat or go down. I was wrong. Now I am unable to buy what I have sold at the same or lower price.
If you include the rental lost and losing. It will be even more substantial.
good time to reflect on some history?:D
1 semi-D + 1 cluster house = 1 flat and $700k loss
By Melissa Tan
IN 1995, Mr Zachary Tsai (not his real name) paid nearly $1.3 million for a second house. A general manager with a manufacturing company in his early 40s, he earned a five-figure salary and lived in a semi-detached house he owned in Upper East Coast with his wife and four children.
But pressured by his 'rich and successful' friends, he decided to pool his hard-earned savings of $300,000 with his sister to put down a deposit on a three-storey cluster house in Kew Gate, a 31-unit leasehold development in the Upper East Coast area.
Intending to sell it about 10 years later, and confident of being able to repay the mortgage and make a handsome profit, he took out a 90 per cent bank loan.
Any thought that he would lose his job and house prices would drop like a stone never occurred to him. But the unthinkable became an unpleasant reality.
In 2001, after his employer merged with another company, he lost his job.
He managed to cover monthly payments on the loan with the remnants of his savings, but that did not leave much for his family.
Desperate to make ends meet, he tried to sell the cluster house in which his sister and mother had been living, but for two long years was unable to do it.
Although he managed to secure a new job in 2003, his salary barely covered the monthly payments. Then the Sars crisis hit and property prices plunged further, recalls Mr Tsai, who is now an operational manager in his late 50s. He eventually disposed of the house at a bank foreclosure sale in 2003 for $680,000 - almost half of the original value and $300,000 below valuation. In total, he lost about $700,000 on the house.
The Tsais, who had to sell their semi-detached home to pay off the debt, now own and live in a five-room HDB flat - also in the Upper East Coast area - bought with Mr Tsai's Central Provident Fund savings. 'I've dreamed of owning private property again and going back to a semi-D. But next time I'm not going to think twice - I'm going to think three or four times,' Mr Tsai says.
Home owner M.K. Kung, 42, has also been hit by shrinking values.
She purchased a two-bedder at Yio Chu Kang condo Seasons Park in 1996 with her husband for about $700,000. They are still living there with their child, but she reckons the apartment is now worth only $650,000 or less.
'We have been thinking of upgrading, but it's not easy to sell something when you know you're going to make a loss on it,' says the public accounting executive.
Mr Tsai and Mrs Kung - along with thousands of others - had bought into what PropNex chief executive officer Mohamed Ismail terms 'the myth that prices would only keep going up'.
'Prior to that we had little experience of prices being crushed. Queueing up for two, three days was common, and queue spots were changing hands for $15,000 to $30,000,' he says. Some property analysts draw parallels with the upbeat market we have today, but are keen to point out differences between the last property crash and today's situation.
DTZ's head of South-east Asia research Chua Chor Hoon says: 'The market right now is reminiscent of 1996 in atmosphere with the queues, the packed showrooms and good take-up rates for popular projects.
'But the level of speculation now has not reached the feverish state seen in 1996 and it's still too early to tell whether it will turn out the same way.''
Dr Chua Yang Liang, head of Southeast Asia research at Jones Lang LaSalle, agrees: 'It seems that there is a market euphoria that is quite similar to that in 1996...but the market fundamentals are quite different.'
What may cut the danger of another crash is the fact that properties in many areas are still worth less than at the time of their launch, while others have made only relatively small gains. Prices still have a lot of catching up to do, just to make up for inflation over the years.
Recent transaction data from the Urban Redevelopment Authority website shows that suburban properties launched in 1996 lost more value over the past 13 years than those in prime districts, some of which have actually risen in value.
Prices at Seasons Park, where Mrs Kung lives, have fallen from $610-$670 per sq ft (psf) at launch to around $520 psf now. And Hougang Green units now fetch around $520 psf, down from their average launch price of $560 psf.
At Ardmore Park in Orchard, however, the 2,885 sq ft apartments, launched at an average of $1,850 psf in 1996, have been selling for $1,976-$2,513 psf since August last year.
'The average price of resale leasehold suburban properties in the second quarter of this year was about a quarter below that in the second quarter of 1996; whereas the average price of resale freehold properties in prime districts in the second quarter of this year was about 5 to 10 per cent above that in the second quarter of 1996,' Ms Chua points out.
Ms Tay Huey Ying, director for research and consultancy at Colliers International, explains: 'Prime district prices recovered in the property boom of 2007 but the mass market recovery came later and was short-lived due to the United States sub-prime mortgage crisis.'
Current launches in suburban areas, such as Optima in Tanah Merah and Centro Residences in Ang Mo Kio, have sold for about $810 psf and around $1,170 psf respectively, on average. These are record prices in their districts.
Asked whether such new launches are overvalued, Dr Chua says: 'It's hard to tell now. There are no signs pointing to a major correction...but I don't think the current rate of price increase is sustainable if it is not supported by economic growth.'
This article was first published in The Straits Times.
Seasons Park & Hougang Green per sqft is around 700-900 since when it's lower than 5xx :doh: ?
When was this article posted?
good time to reflect on some history?:D
1 semi-D + 1 cluster house = 1 flat and $700k loss
By Melissa Tan
IN 1995, Mr Zachary Tsai (not his real name) paid nearly $1.3 million for a second house. A general manager with a manufacturing company in his early 40s, he earned a five-figure salary and lived in a semi-detached house he owned in Upper East Coast with his wife and four children.
But pressured by his 'rich and successful' friends, he decided to pool his hard-earned savings of $300,000 with his sister to put down a deposit on a three-storey cluster house in Kew Gate, a 31-unit leasehold development in the Upper East Coast area.
Intending to sell it about 10 years later, and confident of being able to repay the mortgage and make a handsome profit, he took out a 90 per cent bank loan.
Any thought that he would lose his job and house prices would drop like a stone never occurred to him. But the unthinkable became an unpleasant reality.
In 2001, after his employer merged with another company, he lost his job.
He managed to cover monthly payments on the loan with the remnants of his savings, but that did not leave much for his family.
Desperate to make ends meet, he tried to sell the cluster house in which his sister and mother had been living, but for two long years was unable to do it.
Although he managed to secure a new job in 2003, his salary barely covered the monthly payments. Then the Sars crisis hit and property prices plunged further, recalls Mr Tsai, who is now an operational manager in his late 50s. He eventually disposed of the house at a bank foreclosure sale in 2003 for $680,000 - almost half of the original value and $300,000 below valuation. In total, he lost about $700,000 on the house.
The Tsais, who had to sell their semi-detached home to pay off the debt, now own and live in a five-room HDB flat - also in the Upper East Coast area - bought with Mr Tsai's Central Provident Fund savings. 'I've dreamed of owning private property again and going back to a semi-D. But next time I'm not going to think twice - I'm going to think three or four times,' Mr Tsai says.
Home owner M.K. Kung, 42, has also been hit by shrinking values.
She purchased a two-bedder at Yio Chu Kang condo Seasons Park in 1996 with her husband for about $700,000. They are still living there with their child, but she reckons the apartment is now worth only $650,000 or less.
'We have been thinking of upgrading, but it's not easy to sell something when you know you're going to make a loss on it,' says the public accounting executive.
Mr Tsai and Mrs Kung - along with thousands of others - had bought into what PropNex chief executive officer Mohamed Ismail terms 'the myth that prices would only keep going up'.
'Prior to that we had little experience of prices being crushed. Queueing up for two, three days was common, and queue spots were changing hands for $15,000 to $30,000,' he says. Some property analysts draw parallels with the upbeat market we have today, but are keen to point out differences between the last property crash and today's situation.
DTZ's head of South-east Asia research Chua Chor Hoon says: 'The market right now is reminiscent of 1996 in atmosphere with the queues, the packed showrooms and good take-up rates for popular projects.
'But the level of speculation now has not reached the feverish state seen in 1996 and it's still too early to tell whether it will turn out the same way.''
Dr Chua Yang Liang, head of Southeast Asia research at Jones Lang LaSalle, agrees: 'It seems that there is a market euphoria that is quite similar to that in 1996...but the market fundamentals are quite different.'
What may cut the danger of another crash is the fact that properties in many areas are still worth less than at the time of their launch, while others have made only relatively small gains. Prices still have a lot of catching up to do, just to make up for inflation over the years.
Recent transaction data from the Urban Redevelopment Authority website shows that suburban properties launched in 1996 lost more value over the past 13 years than those in prime districts, some of which have actually risen in value.
Prices at Seasons Park, where Mrs Kung lives, have fallen from $610-$670 per sq ft (psf) at launch to around $520 psf now. And Hougang Green units now fetch around $520 psf, down from their average launch price of $560 psf.
At Ardmore Park in Orchard, however, the 2,885 sq ft apartments, launched at an average of $1,850 psf in 1996, have been selling for $1,976-$2,513 psf since August last year.
'The average price of resale leasehold suburban properties in the second quarter of this year was about a quarter below that in the second quarter of 1996; whereas the average price of resale freehold properties in prime districts in the second quarter of this year was about 5 to 10 per cent above that in the second quarter of 1996,' Ms Chua points out.
Ms Tay Huey Ying, director for research and consultancy at Colliers International, explains: 'Prime district prices recovered in the property boom of 2007 but the mass market recovery came later and was short-lived due to the United States sub-prime mortgage crisis.'
Current launches in suburban areas, such as Optima in Tanah Merah and Centro Residences in Ang Mo Kio, have sold for about $810 psf and around $1,170 psf respectively, on average. These are record prices in their districts.
Asked whether such new launches are overvalued, Dr Chua says: 'It's hard to tell now. There are no signs pointing to a major correction...but I don't think the current rate of price increase is sustainable if it is not supported by economic growth.'
This article was first published in The Straits Times.
Who is this Melissa Tan anyway? Has she checked the URA data to verify the 'Mrs Kung' claim that Season Park is worth only $610-$670psf? None on the URA site show anything below $720psf except for 1 or two in the last 12 months, with recent transaction from $770-$800+....ST journalist or ST Fictional Novelist?
Anyway check here:
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=seasons-park
only those sold before 2011 made a lost....
....and Hougang Green at$520 psf????
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=hougang-green
.....in reality: INDICATIVE PRICE RANGE / AVERAGE*
$675 - $745 PSF / $698 PSF
or did KOMO rugged out some really old articles fro pre-2011?
...my apologies to Melissa Tan....just realised her article was in property guru dated Aug 2009....some blur sotong, probably trying hard to find negative news....got some stale news......or was not clear in expressing his intention that the market do crash in the past.
Things to learn from this old article: property is bought to be kept; never over leverage; and need to have holding power.
and never bite off more than you can chew much less be influenced by show off friends
phantom_opera
20-08-12, 11:11
and never bite off more than you can chew much less be influenced by show off friends
I like your honesty unlike some ppl boasting about 500k income yet tcss in this forum
thanks bro I am honest and can tcss in this forum becoz I have no income ha ha ha
nothing to lose when you have nothing...
phantom_opera
20-08-12, 11:29
thanks bro I am honest and can tcss in this forum becoz I have no income ha ha ha
nothing to lose when you have nothing...
rental income from mm also income what, but guess cap appreciation is what all of us are after
I like your honesty unlike some ppl boasting about 500k income yet tcss in this forum
500K/mth.....:scared-4: !
i have 7 properties, 1 self stay, 1 BUC, the other 5 all rented out.
agents have been asking me to sell but i don't see the need to because i am still young and selling is not really my exit strategy at this point in time. i did a simulation and i think i can still survive if i can simply rent 2 out of the 5 units. my properties are for passive income.
i am currently looking at some resales in D15 near to ERL or River Valley area. but thus far the prices i must say are not very convincing because I will have to put 40% downpayment CASH. currently i am exploiting the volatile markets to get ready the cash by sept and i will prob make a purchase in Sept/Oct when the transactions go down.
for those who want to wait, i would say 2013 is a better time to buy when all the Dragon leaves.
Hi Eastboy, I am looking at D15 for investment also. Since the exact location of ERL stations are not annoucned yet, care to share how u decide which projects to buy? Thank you
I bought 8riversuites
Price is high indeed but there are lots of people with cash waiting at the sideline to come in.
Price may go up - good
Price go down - feeling is no good but no problem, i have holding power
Hi Hovivi, congrats on your purchase.
Assuming one has holding power, say 10~15 years and buy a new LH 99 pc near MRT now. say something went wrong (touch wood) and property prices go down and pick up again in 10 years time. Would this LH property be less attractive compared to new launches 10 years later. Just to borrow a post from ikan billis saying new launches are more expensive than older condos:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=14560&page=3
sold one at good price and bought another, also at a good price :D , within a week. have to hedge against inflation lah
I also afraid of inflation, so last year I bought one acre of farmland and then another acre after that and then one more acre. About SGD 30K per acre. Can rent out for 5% yield. Of course not in Singapore. Paid cash, cannot take loan.
phantom_opera
24-08-12, 14:46
I also afraid of inflation, so last year I bought one acre of farmland and then another acre after that and then one more acre. About SGD 30K per acre. Can rent out for 5% yield. Of course not in Singapore. Paid cash, cannot take loan.
30k per acre? that is about 70k RM ...in Malaysia? what is on the farm, oil palm?
30k per acre? that is about 70k RM ...in Malaysia? what is on the farm, oil palm?
thailand...chicken farm...:confused::D:D:D
phantom_opera
24-08-12, 14:52
Apartment rentals in Jakarta rise 14.6% in Q2
[JAKARTA] Apartment rental rates for Jakarta in the second quarter of the year increased by 14.61 per cent to US$18.23 per square metre on a yearly basis following strong demand from expatriates, local media reported yesterday.
Apartment rentals in Jakarta rise 14.6% in Q2
[JAKARTA] Apartment rental rates for Jakarta in the second quarter of the year increased by 14.61 per cent to US$18.23 per square metre on a yearly basis following strong demand from expatriates, local media reported yesterday.
try posting that in mr b's thread...:D:D:D:D
phantom_opera
24-08-12, 15:13
据报道，7月卡塔尔总理阿勒萨尼曾看中纽约一套价值一亿美元（约6.35亿元人民币）、面积为10923平方英尺（约1015平方米）的豪宅。但他最终未买这套房子，是因为他认为，大厦内的两部电梯并不够他的两个妻子、15个孩子以及他的随从及贴身侍卫使用
http://money.163.com/photoview/50ST0025/5469.html#p=89LQ27NH50ST0025
He (Qatar PM) liked the NYC apartment but did not buy this NYC apartment because 2 private lifts not enough for his 2 wives, 15 children and guards
据报道，7月卡塔尔总理阿勒萨尼曾看中纽约一套价值一亿美元（约6.35亿元人民币）、面积为10923平方英尺（约1015平方米）的豪宅。但他最终未买这套房子，是因为他认为，大厦内的两部电梯并不够他的两个妻子、15个孩子以及他的随从及贴身侍卫使用
http://money.163.com/photoview/50ST0025/5469.html#p=89LQ27NH50ST0025
He (Qatar PM) liked the NYC apartment but did not buy this NYC apartment because 2 private lifts not enough for his 2 wives, 15 children and guards
Qatar PM got oil well in his house issit. 100mil cheap cheap to him.. :p
30k per acre? that is about 70k RM ...in Malaysia? what is on the farm, oil palm?
Rice. Not in Malaysia. Cannot reveal too much. I also afraid IRAS come after me.
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