View Full Version : Some measures for shoeboxes announced
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 15:49
http://www.todayonline.com/Hotnews/EDC120904-0000096/Cap-on-number-of-shoebox-units-outside-central-area-from-Nov
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/2012/pr12-98.html
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 15:50
News Releases
http://www.ura.gov.sg/media-room/images/media-tab-top.jpg
4 Sep 2012
Maintaining a good variety of housing sizes
From 4 November 2012, the total number of dwelling units that can be built on a development site for non-landed private residential developments outside the Central Area will be capped, when new guidelines issued by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) take effect.
The new guidelines will discourage new developments consisting predominantly of “shoebox” units outside the Central Area, but at the same time give flexibility to developers to offer a range of homes of different sizes to cater to the needs of various demographic groups and lifestyles.
A Growing Supply of Shoebox Units
An increasing number of shoebox units are being built in some new private housing projects. The stock of completed shoebox units will increase more than four-fold from about 2,400 units as at the end of 2011 to about 11,000 units by the end of 2015. This trend has raised some concerns, especially in the suburban areas where larger households and families typically reside, and where the demand for shoebox units remains untested.
URA has been monitoring public discussions and feedback on shoebox units. The feedback indicates that shoebox units appeal to some people from small households such as singles, couples without children and retirees. However, others are concerned that shoebox units do not meet the needs of larger households and are not conducive for couples to have children.
On balance, URA agrees that having a certain proportion of shoebox units in our housing stock does indeed help to cater to people with different needs and lifestyles. The situation that we should avoid is for shoebox units to form a disproportionately large portion of the housing stock in Singapore. Increasingly we are seeing some new housing developments consisting predominantly of shoebox units – as high as 50% to 80%. A large concentration of such developments can strain the local road infrastructure as the number of housing units ends up much higher than what was originally planned for.
Moderating Shoebox Developments Outside the Central Area
Taking the above into consideration, URA has adopted a calibrated approach that moderates excessive development of shoebox units, while still allowing some smaller housing units to be built to meet diverse lifestyle choices.
All new non-landed private residential developments in suburban areas, namely outside of the Central Area, will be subject to a cap on the dwelling units (DUs) based on the following formula:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/visual/2012/Formula.jpg
Smaller-sized units can still be developed under these guidelines, but at a more moderate proportion and pace. The new guidelines are applied only to areas outside the Central Area, where housing tends to cater mainly to larger households and families. More details can be found in the URA circular at http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-13.htm (http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-13.htm).
For areas which face more severe infrastructure conditions, a more stringent cap on the total number of dwelling units will apply. These include areas in Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos. A similar cap is already in place for Telok Kurau. More details can be found in the URA circular at http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-14.htm (http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-14.htm).
The URA will monitor and review the guidelines periodically, taking into consideration various factors such as socio-demographic and lifestyle changes.
hurray.... no more destruction of our housing.
Sorry my duplicate posting
Wonder what's the rationale why bonus GFA is not considered?
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 16:06
http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-13app1.pdf
for e.g., according to this map, some parts of D8 will be considered central area, while some parts of bukit timah D10 are NOT considered central area.
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 16:07
bonus gfa not considered in calculation means smaller number of units = smaller number of shoeboxes mah. good wat. :)
Wonder what's the rationale why bonus GFA is not considered?
I am not sure this will be good or bad news for existing OCR MM owner. One thing for sure is that developers will likely to bid lower for land outside CCR, so average PSF price is likely to come down. Will developers now switch their MM focus to CCR?
I presume this will not affect those land that have been sold to developer.
aiyo, another scholar's idea
game of averaging
cap the number of units rather than the size, so build some big ones, then u still can hv some ones
good for only those with the entire project of MM units only
Using demand-supply theory, means OCR MM unit prices will increase? :scared-5:
I was dozing off when the circular was published lol. In summary, the Telok Kurau computation over 100sqm will be applied to Kovan and Joo Chiat the other two hotspots. For all others outside Central area, computation will be based off 70sqm.
Existing MMs in those named areas - HUAT AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more competition liao yahoo!!! Next time all will need to rent 3.2k above for the 'at least 70sqm' units.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 16:18
Don't be too happy first bro carbuncle.
Take example of the Tanah Merah site recently won by Fragrance / World Class
MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE GFA : 39,196 m²
39,196 / 70
= 560 units
so u either build 560 units 70sqm or 260 units 45sqm + 260 units 95sqm
or 186 units 45sqm, 186 units 70sqm, 186 units 95sqm
this calculation does not include bonus for balconies/AC of course
Still can build 200 units 45sqm MMs :p Wonder Fragrance will be affected in the TM plot, original plan must be building 1000 40sqm units :eek:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-13app1.pdf
for e.g., according to this map, some parts of D8 will be considered central area, while some parts of bukit timah D10 are NOT considered central area.
In fact MOST parts of Bukit Timah is not considered central. Even Robin Road and part of Steven road are not considered central. But some parts of East coast Park way is considered central. Crazy.
Don't be too happy first bro carbuncle.
Take example of the Tanah Merah site recently won by Fragrance / World Class
MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE GFA : 39,196 m²
39,196 / 70
= 560 units
so u either build 560 units 70sqm or 260 units 45sqm + 260 units 95sqm
or 186 units 45sqm, 186 units 70sqm, 186 units 95sqm
this calculation does not include bonus for bIalconies/AC of course
Perfect :p
Aiyo. Why I not happy?? Whichever, at least it will never be 560 units 45sqm as I expected lol. DEFINITELY less competition going forward.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 16:25
FEO projects will pass with flying colors ... they are about right :cheers1:
IMO, this is mini CM for 2/3brs as supply will increase
Using demand-supply theory, means OCR MM unit prices will increase? :scared-5:
lack of record breaking psf price (usually from new development) will usually have a cooling effect.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 16:31
If you are Fragrance, would u build
Option A: 560 X 70 2br (dangerous bet)
Option B:
186 X 45 1br
186 X 70 2br
186 X 95 3br (quantum too high, hard to sell)
Option C:
280 X 60 2br
280 X 80 3br
difficult to decide leh :banghead:
2br MMs 646sqft here to stay liao :doh: this policy has the problem of encouraging small 2brs 6xxsqft / 3brs 8xxsqft as in option C
If you are Fragrance, would u build
Option A: 560 X 70 2br (dangerous bet)
Option B:
186 X 45 1br
186 X 70 2br
186 X 95 3br (quantum too high, hard to sell)
Option C:
280 X 60 2br
280 X 80 3br
difficult to decide leh :banghead:
2br MMs 646sqft here to stay liao :doh: this policy has the problem of encouraging small 2brs 6xxsqft / 3brs 8xxsqft as in option C
As long as the quantum remain affordable, people will still buy. But with the new formula, average quantum will have to go up.
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 16:44
not really for east coast, its just the boundary of ECP right? purposely does not include tanjong rhu.
yeah, in my rush just now, i didn't write that most parts of bukit timah. :) anyway, point is, they want to keep bukit timah family residential.
most parts of the land cost in their definition of Central Area is too expensive for MM to be viable. e.g. the future marina area! :ashamed1: Looks like for central area, MM will stay at Sophia/wilkie/mackenzie, the little india area and some very limited parts of river valley.
In fact MOST parts of Bukit Timah is not considered central. Even Robin Road and part of Steven road are not considered central. But some parts of East coast Park way is considered central. Crazy.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 16:44
Kenobi-wan was quite relaxed the last time he mentioned about MMs ... why suddenly the policy to curb MMs?? Must be bid price of 700psf and 676psf in JLD and TM that alarm him ... especially when Fragrance/World Class Land will probably build 1000 x 39sqm MMs in TM
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/ST_20120904_TASALES04_3283357e.jpg
Maybe we will see more dual key units in future.
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 16:48
either FEO is consulted or the URA use their model hahahahahahaha.
keep the units at >500 sq ft BUT WITH THE LOFT to make it attractive and build a variety of other units. townhouses would have been helpful but no longer possible?
oh no, now there won't be MM over supply but LOFT/FURNITURE DECK, whatever u call it oversupply!!! :scared-1:
FEO projects will pass with flying colors ... they are about right :cheers1:
IMO, this is mini CM for 2/3brs as supply will increase
Kenobi-wan was quite relaxed the last time he mentioned about MMs ... why suddenly the policy to curb MMs?? Must be bid price of 700psf and 676psf in JLD and TM that alarm him ... especially when Fragrance/World Class Land will probably build 1000 x 39sqm MMs in TM
Obi-Wan Kenobi is first introduced in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope) (1977), where he is played by Alec Guinness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Guinness) and is first seen rescuing Luke Skywalker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker) (Mark Hamill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hamill)) from a group of Tusken Raiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusken_Raiders). Obi-Wan Kenobi takes Luke to his hut, where he reveals that he knew Luke's father, Anakin Skywalker, and served with him in the Clone Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clone_Wars_%28Star_Wars%29). He gives Anakin's lightsaber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber) to Luke, having told him that Darth Vader (David Prowse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Prowse)/James Earl Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Earl_Jones)) "betrayed and murdered" Anakin. Suddenly, R2-D2 plays a message from Princess Leia Organa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Leia) (Carrie Fisher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Fisher)) that pleads for Obi-Wan Kenobi to get the droid to her father on Alderaan. Obi-Wan Kenobi offers to instruct Luke in the ways of the Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_%28Star_Wars%29) and asks him to join him on the quest; but Luke is only persuaded when his aunt and uncle are slain by the Empire, whereupon Obi-Wan Kenobi takes him to deliver the message to Alderaan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderaan).:scared-1::scared-1::scared-1:
Have you not heard of latest 420sf 2br? lol.
Anyway you just watch lor there will be proliferation of 51sqm TWO bedder.
less MMs can possibly have an adverse effect too. less supply, same amount of demand = increasing price!!!
if i'm the developer, i up my MM psf, citing limited supply. since i up my MM's psf, i also do likewise to my 2/3/4 BRs. in the end, doesn't help to stablilize property prices.
IMHO, KenoBiWan should order a re-tender if the bidding gets out of hand. but hey, perception of costs is relative, cos brompton bike's and herman miller's are considered affordable
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 16:59
Maybe we will see more dual key units in future.
unlikely, quantum too big
less MMs can possibly have an adverse effect too. less supply, same amount of demand = increasing price!!!
if i'm the developer, i up my MM psf, citing limited supply. since i up my MM's psf, i also do likewise to my 2/3/4 BRs. in the end, doesn't help to stablilize property prices.
IMHO, KenoBiWan should order a re-tender if the bidding gets out of hand. but hey, perception of costs is relative, cos brompton bike's and herman miller's are considered affordable
you can only up your OCR mm price to a certain level before buyers will find better value in MM in CCR.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 17:03
Kenobi-wan is old and fragile, no match for the evil Property Empire who is secretly building the next generation of MMs called Death Star which will destroy the lovely planet called Singapore :scared-1:
I took a look at the formula again. This means that the average size of each units allowed is 70sqm aka 753 sqft if bonus GFA is 0.
I would say it does not affect developer that much. Have some units at 1300sqft, then a few big ones at 1800sqft, and developers can still build many many SOHO and MM units.
Anyone checked how many units there are at watertown, and its total GFA?
you can only up your OCR mm price to a certain level before buyers will find better value in MM in CCR.
really?! Look at ECo and Watertown going at 1200psf and beyond.
http://www.ura.gov.sg/realEstateWeb/realEstate/pageflow/transaction/submitSearch.do
Nathan residences - FH, D9 going for est. 1600psf
This only shows one thing - stupidity (and carrotcake-ness) knows no bounds
really?! Look at ECo and Watertown going at 1200psf and beyond.
http://www.ura.gov.sg/realEstateWeb/realEstate/pageflow/transaction/submitSearch.do
Nathan residences - FH, D9 going for est. 1600psf
This only shows one thing - stupidity (and carrotcake-ness) knows no bounds
i think it's the quantum - CCR properties tend to be larger (around 1300 sq ft for a 3BR) while OCR apartments are smaller (1000 sq ft for 3 BR) hence more affordable
ok some info about watertown:
from http://my-punggolwaterway.com/?page_id=88
it says Permissible GFA: Residential: 75,598.24 sqm
from http://www.e-singaporeproperty.com/watertown-condominium.html,
it says that there are 992 residential units in watertown
so
average size of each units is about 76sqm
So we have seen that even similar development like WaterTown will not be affected by this new measure in the future. This, imo, is just another lame attempt to curb the market. But KBW should put more effort into solving HDB housing instead.
Would this result in super big balcony? Eg using standard GFA on top of bonus GFA to build more balcony space and thus lowering the psf since it is cheaper to build balconies. This will minimize quantum increase while creating more floor space per unit. Or the return of bay windows....
i think it's the quantum - CCR properties tend to be larger (around 1300 sq ft for a 3BR) while OCR apartments are smaller (1000 sq ft for 3 BR) hence more affordable
Project Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PROJECT_NAME');)Street Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('STREET_NAME');)Typehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PROPERTY_TYPE');)No. of Unitshttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('COVER');)Price
($)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE');)Area (Sqft)1
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('FLOOR_LAND_AREA_SQF');) Type of Area2
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('LOT_TYPE');)Unit Price ($psf)3
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE_PSF');) Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signedhttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('CONTRACT_DATE');)NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1980,000592Strata1,655Jun-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1948,000592Strata1,601Apr-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment11,240,000786Strata1,578Apr-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1885,000592Strata1,495Mar-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1920,000592Strata1,554Mar-12Project Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PROJECT_NAME');)Street Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('STREET_NAME');)Typehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PROPERTY_TYPE');)No. of Unitshttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('COVER');)Price
($)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE');)Area (Sqft)1
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('FLOOR_LAND_AREA_SQF');) Type of Area2
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('LOT_TYPE');)Unit Price ($psf)3
http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE_PSF');) Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signedhttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('CONTRACT_DATE');)NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1980,000592Strata1,655Jun-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1948,000592Strata1,601Apr-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment11,240,000786Strata1,578Apr-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1885,000592Strata1,495Mar-12NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1920,000592Strata1,554Mar-12
Not entirely true.....
NATHAN RESIDENCES NATHAN ROADApartment1980,000592Strata1,655Jun-12
Nathan residences
592sqft, 1655psf in Jun 2012
592sqft, 1601psf in Apr 2012
Most probably we will see apartments with a/c ledge that surrounds the whole of the unit's parameter.
:scared-1: :scared-1:
Would this result in super big balcony? Eg using standard GFA on top of bonus GFA to build more balcony space and thus lowering the psf since it is cheaper to build balconies. This will minimize quantum increase while creating more floor space per unit. Or the return of bay windows....
Bonus GFA has to be used for balcony space anyway, with or without the new measure. That is the old rule.
Govt wanna reduce number of units in each development.
Developers wanna protect profit margins.
Buyers want small quantum for affordability.
Solution?
Build 507sf 2bedders. Sell at least 700k each for OCR. If super near mrt or mall can sell 800k up. 700-800k is perceived market price for two bedders. Developers get same or even better profit margin plus save on building materials. Everyone happy.
This is simply the authority saying... No more small quantum (in terms of $$$ with high $/psf) units.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 17:26
Most probably we will see apartments with a/c ledge that surrounds the whole of the unit's parameter.
:scared-1: :scared-1:
something like this, replace planter with AC ledge??
http://www.singaporeexpats.com/singapore-property-pictures/floorplan/the-aristo-at-amber/floorplan-TypeA-A1-A2-B.jpg
Would this result in super big balcony? Eg using standard GFA on top of bonus GFA to build more balcony space and thus lowering the psf since it is cheaper to build balconies. This will minimize quantum increase while creating more floor space per unit. Or the return of bay windows....
Or build more carpark lots per unit which counts towards GFA.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 17:29
Govt wanna reduce number of units in each development.
Developers wanna protect profit margins.
Buyers want small quantum for affordability.
Solution?
Build 507sf 2bedders. Sell at least 700k each for OCR. If super near mrt or mall can sell 800k up. 700-800k is perceived market price for two bedders. Developers get same or even better profit margin plus save on building materials. Everyone happy.
So it will be:
186 X 45sqm 2br
186 X 70sqm 3br
186 X 95sqm 4br
:banghead: :scared-1: :mad:
I was dozing off when the circular was published lol. In summary, the Telok Kurau computation over 100sqm will be applied to Kovan and Joo Chiat the other two hotspots. For all others outside Central area, computation will be based off 70sqm.
Existing MMs in those named areas - HUAT AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more competition liao yahoo!!! Next time all will need to rent 3.2k above for the 'at least 70sqm' units.
20 years down the road, those MM projects difficult to enbloc.
since the trend is for large units before enbloc to become smaller unit after, and not small units to become larger.
20 years down the road, those MM projects difficult to enbloc.
since the trend is for large units before enbloc to become smaller unit after, and not small units to become larger.
thats very true.
bro hopeful, seriously, with the roti prata style of our policy makers, do you think you can speak for the next ten years? I don't even dare to guess for next two years.
Judicious Market Intervention
As regulators, we try not to interfere in the normal functioning of the market, or to second-guess it. But occasionally, some judicious intervention for public interest is necessary when the market outcome is less than satisfactory.
For example in recent years many residential projects in Telok Kurau area have led to a rampant development of tiny shoebox units in that area, resulting in disamenities such as severe traffic congestion, shortage of car parks and double-parking. Residents in that area appealed for development guidelines to restrict the over-development of such tiny housing units.
After consulting with the stakeholders, URA decided to move in, but in a judicious way, without over-regulating or stifling the creativity of developers.
Hence, instead of specifying a minimum floor area for an apartment, URA chose to limit the maximum number of apartments that developers can propose in a particular development. This way, developers are still free to build small apartments if there is demand, but there must be a good mixture of large and small units, in order to meet the URA guidelines.
The planning guidelines were implemented in Nov 2011. It was very well received, by architects, developers and the local residents.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, outside of the Central Area, some new developments have included a large proportion of shoebox units. I voiced concern about this trend in a couple of blog posts. Many Singaporeans voiced similar concerns too. Unlike the Central Area, the suburbs are largely for families. While there is a need for smaller units, like studio apartments, 2-rm flats and shoebox units for the singles, retirees and small families, too many in the same locality cannot be optimal.
Many developers have frowned on this trend too. To be sure, this is not a general industry practice, but largely confined to a few developments.
After watching this development for a while, URA decided that it should intervene as it had done before. This afternoon, it announced the new planning guidelines to address the issue of developments which consist predominantly of shoebox units outside the Central Area.
The new URA planning guidelines are measured and moderate. There will still be shoebox units to meet the need of a segment of the population, but there will also be many more larger units, to meet the demand of the other population segments.
I am confident this judicious market intervention will again be welcomed by the stakeholders, developers and residents.
Please visit the MND Facebook to leave a comment.
I see this as good news for existing OCR studio owners like myself.
Less supply in future will lead to higher prices???
Central Area: It comprises the following 11 Planning Areas :Outram, Museum, Newton,River Valley, Singapore River, Marina South,Marina East, Straits View, Rochor, Orchard and Downtown Core
BBBasically it is just limited mostly to CCR that does not have this restriction since the shoebox units are not very prevalent: http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc12-13app1.pdf
There are 3 pricing bands for this comparison 500k-750k, 350k-<500k, >750k-<1mil
Did a runthrough on the stats and it is indeed scary to the max where the high risk group is based on the same price price band with comparison to the planing area
[Central Area]
Property Type : Non-Landed - All (exclude EC)
Planning Area : Downtown Core, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, Orchard, Straits View, Rochor, River Valley, Singapore River
Floor/Land Area (sqm) : 0 - 46.5
Total Price ($) : 500000 - 750000
Contract Date : JAN 2011 - AUG 2012
Units: 41
Note: Most transacted prices starts from 650k onwards
Property Type : Non-Landed - All (exclude EC)
Planning Area : Downtown Core, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, Orchard, Straits View, Rochor, River Valley, Singapore River
Floor/Land Area (sqm) : 0 - 46.5
Total Price ($) : 750001 - 999999
Contract Date : JAN 2011 - AUG 2012
Units: 132
[Non-Central Area]
Property Type : Non-Landed - All (exclude EC)
Planning Area : Ang Mo Kio, Bedok, Bukit Batok, Boon Lay, Bukit Merah, Bishan, Bukit Timah, Changi Bay, Central Water Catchment, Changi , Choa Chu Kang, Clementi, Geylang, Hougang, Jurong East, Jurong West, Kallang, Lim Chu Kang, Mandai, Marine Parade, North-Eastern Islands, Novena, Punggol, Paya Lebar, Pioneer, Pasir Ris, Queenstown, Sembawang, Sengkang, Serangoon, Southern Islands, Sungei Kadut, Seletar, Simpang, Tengah, Tampines, Tanglin, Toa Payoh, Tuas, Western Water Catchment, Woodlands, Western Islands, Yishun
Floor/Land Area (sqm) : 0 - 46.5
Total Price ($) : 500000 - 750000
Contract Date : JAN 2011 - AUG 2012
Units: 2926
Note: 25 percentile: 500k-550k, 50 percentile: >550-<600k, 75 percentile: >600k-<650k
Property Type : Non-Landed - All (exclude EC)
Planning Area : Ang Mo Kio, Bedok, Bukit Batok, Boon Lay, Bukit Merah, Bishan, Bukit Timah, Changi Bay, Central Water Catchment, Changi , Choa Chu Kang, Clementi, Geylang, Hougang, Jurong East, Jurong West, Kallang, Lim Chu Kang, Mandai, Marine Parade, North-Eastern Islands, Novena, Punggol, Paya Lebar, Pioneer, Pasir Ris, Queenstown, Sembawang, Sengkang, Serangoon, Southern Islands, Sungei Kadut, Seletar, Simpang, Tengah, Tampines, Tanglin, Toa Payoh, Tuas, Western Water Catchment, Woodlands, Western Islands, Yishun
Floor/Land Area (sqm) : 0 - 46.5
Total Price ($) : 350000 - 499999
Contract Date : JAN 2011 - AUG 2012
Units: 649
Note: Most transacted prices starts from 400k onwards
ikan bilis
04-09-12, 18:39
heya...
now the MMs are around 35sqm...
if kenobi wan die die want average 70sqm condo hor, then developers can go build 70sqm dual-key mm mah... each side in the dual-key is a 35sqm studio/1-bdr...
that will make developers happy, buyers happy, kenobi wan happy, tenants happy... so everybody happy and shiok !!..
;)
heya...
now the MMs are around 35sqm...
if kenobi wan die die want average 70sqm condo hor, then developers can go build 70sqm dual-key mm mah... each side in the dual-key is a 35sqm studio/1-bdr...
that will make developers happy, buyers happy, kenobi wan happy, tenants happy... so everybody happy and shiok !!..
;)
better not play with fire lah. if not sure kenna more CMs.
Does it mean that developers with existing land bank will have to submit their plans to URA before 4th Nov in order not to be penalized by the new regulation?
Wild Falcon
04-09-12, 19:21
I think its about time URA redefine central area. D9,10,11 is outdated - and some parts of D10 and D11 is so far from town.
Anyway, I guess the impact is negative on non-central areas since developers cannot build exclusively MM anymore. But since most developers do NOT build exclusively MM in suburbs, I suspect few areas are adversely affected, other than the MM paradise in D14 and D15 like Telok Kurau, Joo Chiat and Geylang, and perhaps Stevens area where new launches also all MM. Its good news that now the suburban areas will consist of fairly large units on average - not too cramped and positive for living environment
So central areas land value probably will increase because there is less restrictions on what developers can and cannot do. Developers who exclusively build MMs most likely will bid for land in the central areas. Let all the MMs congregate there - doesn't matter to me if the place becomes congested and unlivable....
In fact MOST parts of Bukit Timah is not considered central. Even Robin Road and part of Steven road are not considered central. But some parts of East coast Park way is considered central. Crazy.
I think its about time URA redefine central area. D9,10,11 is outdated - and some parts of D10 and D11 is so far from town.
Anyway, I guess the impact is negative on non-central areas since developers cannot build exclusively MM anymore. But since most developers do NOT build exclusively MM in suburbs, I suspect few areas are adversely affected, other than the MM paradise in D14 and D15 like Telok Kurau, Joo Chiat and Geylang, and perhaps Stevens area where new launches also all MM. Its good news that now the suburban areas will consist of fairly large units on average - not too cramped and positive for living environment
So central areas land value probably will increase because there is less restrictions on what developers can and cannot do. Developers who exclusively build MMs most likely will bid for land in the central areas. Let all the MMs congregate there - doesn't matter to me if the place becomes congested and unlivable....
perhaps thats the reason why FEO went in so aggressively on the Farrer Road plot.
Using demand-supply theory, means OCR MM unit prices will increase? :scared-5:
Was there real demand in the 1st place? More of a developer playing quantum game.
Developers with difficult to sell OCR, high psf shoebox unit will have to thank KBW. Those with months no buyers will be snapped up soon.
Wild Falcon
04-09-12, 19:54
Farrer is outside Central Area so the new rule will apply.
perhaps thats the reason why FEO went in so aggressively on the Farrer Road plot.
bargain hunter
04-09-12, 20:23
the most badly hit will be those small boutique developers who bought super small land sized plot. how are they going to strike a balance between the big and small units when they originally planned for just 1 and 2 bedders?!
Allthepies
04-09-12, 20:54
the most badly hit will be those small boutique developers who bought super small land sized plot. how are they going to strike a balance between the big and small units when they originally planned for just 1 and 2 bedders?!
Who cares? Let them go kaboom loh
the most badly hit will be those small boutique developers who bought super small land sized plot. how are they going to strike a balance between the big and small units when they originally planned for just 1 and 2 bedders?!
Kovan Lodge enbloc will be the interesting one to watch.
the most badly hit will be those small boutique developers who bought super small land sized plot. how are they going to strike a balance between the big and small units when they originally planned for just 1 and 2 bedders?!
They will quick quick submit before the ruling kicks in... The last of the suburban MMs
Its one Govt strategy to ensure sustainability of the property price actually.
Prevent the quantum from going down (higher sf even if psf drops), as well as work on the mean size of private apartment.
These are important stats to report. So rest assured, not much changes to the big game plan. Mean 70sqm has more than enough grounds to play with. Mean 100sqm is more tricky though.
I think it's time to curb the ridiculous air con ledge allowance.
How much ledge space is required for 2 condenser for most apartment sizes?!
MM is 500sqft and below? so anything above 500sqft is not considered shoebox unit?
styleman88
05-09-12, 01:51
For example in recent years many residential projects in Telok Kurau area have led to a rampant development of tiny shoebox units in that area, resulting in disamenities such as severe traffic congestion, shortage of car parks and double-parking. Residents in that area appealed for development guidelines to restrict the over-development of such tiny housing units.
I failed to rationalise the thoughts of Mr.Khaw above.
Traffic congestion has very little to do with the size of the house. If you build bigger units, more people will be living inside that house and instead of one car, now that house probably owns two cars. Furthermore, people who can afford the quamtum of larger houses would probably afford more than one car anyway.
Infact, shoebox apartments (you guys called it MM..what is MM?) are typically rented out to foreigners/expats who probably doesn't own cars.
So can anyone help me to rationalize the above?
styleman88
05-09-12, 02:04
Its one Govt strategy to ensure sustainability of the property price actually.
Prevent the quantum from going down (higher sf even if psf drops), as well as work on the mean size of private apartment.
These are important stats to report. So rest assured, not much changes to the big game plan. Mean 70sqm has more than enough grounds to play with. Mean 100sqm is more tricky though.
IMO, you can't go against market demographics. Our population are greying and young people are remaining single longer. Babies, no matter how they are encouraged, is not going to go back to a 2.1 fertility rate. On the other hand, foreign talents are welcome to work here. All these trend points towards the demand for shoebox apartments which is more affordable, easier to maintain and very suitable for the lifestyle needs of older retirees, singles, couples who has only 1 kid or none and expats.
You can curb the number of shoebox units, but the socio-economic trend will just push the demand higher.
They should find ways to curb that demand, and not curbing the number of units. No one has ever win the market before. If there is no demand, the developer will naturally forget about building shoeboxes.
To be honest, I think this move will just push up prices of shoeboxes even higher. 11,000 units by 2015 for an overall population of 4-5 million is puny considering the amount of retirrees from the baby boom generation and the number of singles by then.
I failed to rationalise the thoughts of Mr.Khaw above.
Traffic congestion has very little to do with the size of the house. If you build bigger units, more people will be living inside that house and instead of one car, now that house probably owns two cars. Furthermore, people who can afford the quamtum of larger houses would probably afford more than one car anyway.
Infact, shoebox apartments (you guys called it MM..what is MM?) are typically rented out to foreigners/expats who probably doesn't own cars.
So can anyone help me to rationalize the above?
If a lot of old uncle and aunt buy the MM and lease out their 5 room and Executive, they don't have to reverse mortgage their HDB, they don't have to buy 30 years lease hold studio. Supply of resale HDB will reduce, price will go up. They need to build more BTO to reduce the price and increase their risk of oversupply.Traffic congestion, just increase ERP the Traffic congestion will disappear.
well with MAS looking to ease monetary policy to bolster growth instead, can only be sure that asset prices are likely to shoot up again.
When they build smaller size it OK.
http://singaporedesk.blogspot.fr/2012/05/smaller-sizes-bigger-lies.html
May be can ask them to build MM HDB for 99 years.
This is very good news for MM owners outside the CCR as supply is nearly cut-off. Developers with approved MM projects can now increase their prices further. Because bigger units are less affordable, it is likely developers will cut back on the use of quality materials of bigger units to keep the quantum affordable.
The measure only prevent developer to have a project full of MM. It doesnt actually reduce the number of MM in the market in general. Developer should still be able to build 100 studio in a 300 unit project. Only that they have to sell larger penthouses and 3 room units.
The measure only prevent developer to have a project full of MM. It doesnt actually reduce the number of MM in the market in general. Developer should still be able to build 100 studio in a 300 unit project. Only that they have to sell larger penthouses and 3 room units.
This is still a good news for MM owners as supplies will b lesser since lower psf of larger units affects viability of enbloc for pure MM developments. If MM were to be offered in normal projects, their psf wld need to be even higher to compensate for e loss of MM units.
This is still a good news for MM owners as supplies will b lesser since lower psf of larger units affects viability of enbloc for pure MM developments. If MM were to be offered in normal projects, their psf wld need to be even higher to compensate for e loss of MM units.
the physical supply of MM will actually peak in 2015 and 2016, and no one know for sure if the market will be able to absorb these additional supply of MM in OCR. I think some OCR MM projects are about to TOP soon, so it will be interesting to see how the market will react.
I am also guessing that with this new ruling, developers might be less keen and aggressive when bidding for GLS which could translate to lower average psf.
Let us name some examples of such high MM (over 80%) concentration projects shall we?
SUITES 123
LOFT @ RANGOON
URBAN LOFT
CITY LOFT
THOMSON V TWO
PRESTIGE LOFT
THE COTZ
WATER EDGE
JUPITER 18
SUITES @ EUNOS
SUITES @ KATONG
SUITES @ GUILLEMARD
PARC SOMME
TYRWHITT 139
THE LENOX
STUDIOS @ TEMBELING
KEMBANGAN SUITES
PRESTIGE HEIGHTS
AIRSTREAM
....
Actually there isn't a lot a lot a lot of projects that has over 80% concentration of MM in one project. Most mix it up with two or three bedders. Viz a viz normal mixed developments, all I can see is that the above projects will have higher incidence of small families or singles or couples, and likelihood of higher FT staying. Plus less likelihood of cars going in and out of these. So I really wonder where the crowding and obstruction to traffic complaint is coming from. Unless the residents are referring to human traffic.
The way I see it, the other residents have an agenda as these are stealing away their potential tenant pool. For the special mention Telok K residents who complained, it is a special case as the roads are already very narrow in the Lorongs so a single terrace turned into say only a 20 unit mixed size units development would already have caused a major difference. And because these (Lor H to M, sites far from park connector) are so ulu, almost everyone drives or rides in these projects.
Kovan area on the other hand because its so deep in, with a single main road on one side (Upp Serangoon Road), even if the inside roads are not that narrow, the increased population suddenly all becomes more apparent as everyone makes their way out to the same main road.
Let us name some examples of such high MM (over 80%) concentration projects shall we?
SUITES 123
LOFT @ RANGOON
URBAN LOFT
CITY LOFT
THOMSON V TWO
PRESTIGE LOFT
THE COTZ
WATER EDGE
JUPITER 18
SUITES @ EUNOS
SUITES @ KATONG
SUITES @ GUILLEMARD
PARC SOMME
TYRWHITT 139
THE LENOX
STUDIOS @ TEMBELING
KEMBANGAN SUITES
PRESTIGE HEIGHTS
AIRSTREAM
....
Actually there isn't a lot a lot a lot of projects that has over 80% concentration of MM in one project. Most mix it up with two or three bedders. Viz a viz normal mixed developments, all I can see is that the above projects will have higher incidence of small families or singles or couples, and likelihood of higher FT staying. Plus less likelihood of cars going in and out of these. So I really wonder where the crowding and obstruction to traffic complaint is coming from. Unless the residents are referring to human traffic.
The way I see it, the other residents have an agenda as these are stealing away their potential tenant pool. For the special mention Telok K residents who complained, it is a special case as the roads are already very narrow in the Lorongs so a single terrace turned into say only a 20 unit mixed size units development would already have caused a major difference. And because these (Lor H to M, sites far from park connector) are so ulu, almost everyone drives or rides in these projects.
Kovan area on the other hand because its so deep in, with a single main road on one side (Upp Serangoon Road), even if the inside roads are not that narrow, the increased population suddenly all becomes more apparent as everyone makes their way out to the same main road.
If these MM projects doesnt get occupied by FT, then they will be major congestion problem. I think the morning traffic in the East heading toward the city is already pretty bad.
Everyone, don't forget just not too long ago, a certain MP bought a shoebox. Most of us were right on that hunch it was a textbook case of acting on insider news. Sure enough, we see a measure to curb shoeboxes a month later.
If the intention of the measure isn't to drive up further the prices of shoebox, especially for those who are already vested in those named locations subjected to higher and tighter control, I don't know what else is....
Can anyone tell me if Marshall Road is under the Joo Chiat/Eunos 100sqm area?
Everyone, don't forget just not too long ago, a certain MP bought a shoebox. Most of us were right on that hunch it was a textbook case of acting on insider news. Sure enough, we see a measure to curb shoeboxes a month later.
If the intention of the measure isn't to drive up further the prices of shoebox, especially for those who are already vested in those named locations subjected to higher and tighter control, I don't know what else is....
depending if your look at it has half full or half empty. I prefer to think that this new measures will help to stabilized the market as the current OCR MM price and supply is not sustainable in the long run.
I think ultimately, the one who will get hit most will be the MM developers as they will no longer be able to make astronomical profit from selling MM.
depending if your look at it has half full or half empty. I prefer to think that this new measures will help to stabilized the market as the current OCR MM price and supply is not sustainable in the long run.
I think ultimately, the one who will get hit most will be the MM developers as they will no longer be able to make astronomical profit from selling MM.
Yes, feels like a half cooling measure by preventing developers from bidding over-zealously and passing that cost on the the home buyer with an entire block of MM.
Yes, feels like a half cooling measure by preventing developers from bidding over-zealously and passing that cost on the the home buyer with an entire block of MM.
Likely to drive up psf of 2 n 3 bedders too. Govt is Juz trying to reduce proliferation of MM from its GLS. With unintended consequences.
Likely to drive up psf of 2 n 3 bedders too. Govt is Juz trying to reduce proliferation of MM from its GLS. With unintended consequences.
Possibly, if rentals of MM are squeezed higher, 2&3 beds could see some collateral benefits and consequently their prices as well.
styleman88
05-09-12, 09:33
depending if your look at it has half full or half empty. I prefer to think that this new measures will help to stabilized the market as the current OCR MM price and supply is not sustainable in the long run.
I think ultimately, the one who will get hit most will be the MM developers as they will no longer be able to make astronomical profit from selling MM.
I am not too worried for the developers. They always have ways to make profit by working around the rules. For example, you may now see big a/c ledges for 2-3 bedders in order to cover back their margin, and for that few shoeboxes that they can build, they will just charge even higher psf due to low supply and high demand especially if it at a good location.
The most in demand shoeboxes now will be those at city fringe area where they are subjected to the curbing rules, but yet has demand from city dwellers.
Have yet to see OCR MMful in Kovan... except maybe Suites @ Kovan. But coming on quite a few. Vibes at Kovan. Vibes at Serangoon. Space at Kovan. Promenade at Pelikat... so for Kovan I guess its more preemptive...
Likely to drive up psf of 2 n 3 bedders too. Govt is Juz trying to reduce proliferation of MM from its GLS. With unintended consequences.
I don't think its unintended. This is typical kill many birds with one stone policy. You wanted to clamp down on shoebox we did it. You want asset price to rise we caused it. You want to keep young couples from wasting their money on shoebox we made it (as now they totally can't afford it nor even the two beddersuthen they will buy my hdb flats instead. Its a total win for all.
Caruncle, is there any website that has the GFA data of developments? E.g. GFA of Airstream. Thanks..
does anyone know which OCR MM going to TOP this year?
bro kana, you just wanna do the calculations? just need site area.... why need GFA?
site area can be googled. usually they state upon launch info. or govt tender of the site ... if the info still lying around
does anyone know which OCR MM going to TOP this year?
Telok Kurau is OCR. And there's many that will top this year I think.
Lenox is another one top soon. Siglap V also. Heritage East just top.
bro kana, you just wanna do the calculations? just need site area.... why need GFA?
site area can be googled. usually they state upon launch info. or govt tender of the site ... if the info still lying around
Yeah just for calculation. I'll Search around, thanks. Any idea which development has the smallest average sqm per unit?
Max GFA = GPR x Site Area
Development Type : Mixed Residential, Commercial
Address : 113 Rangoon Road
Tenure : Freehold
Developer : Ascend Assets Pte Ltd
Site Area : 4,922 sqft approximate
Total No of Units : 24 Residential 3 Shops
No of Storey : 6
No of Towers : 1 block
Expected TOP : Dec 2014
District : District 8
phantom_opera
05-09-12, 10:18
Actually this policy has negligible effects lah, it will just stop Fragrance/World Class Land from bidding too high in OCR and ensure the MM owners in OCR are happy
by 2020, those > 65y old baby boomers will X2 .. 40% of male stay singles; MMs will always be in demand
Actually this policy has negligible effects lah, it will just stop Fragrance/World Class Land from bidding too high in OCR and ensure the MM owners in OCR are happy
by 2020, those > 65y old baby boomers will X2 .. 40% of male stay singles; MMs will always be in demand
this new measures is not intended to reverse the market direction, it will only help to slowdown the supply, which IMO is a good thing because the last thing we want is for the MM to crash.
Wild Falcon
05-09-12, 11:19
I think for this rule, we should stop using the "OCR" term but rather non Central Area. Central Area is re-defined very strictly in the Orchard, River Valley, Marina Bay and Little India areas. Pls see the map for the new definition of Central Area.
Actually this policy has negligible effects lah, it will just stop Fragrance/World Class Land from bidding too high in OCR and ensure the MM owners in OCR are happy
by 2020, those > 65y old baby boomers will X2 .. 40% of male stay singles; MMs will always be in demand
bro hopeful, seriously, with the roti prata style of our policy makers, do you think you can speak for the next ten years? I don't even dare to guess for next two years.
roti prata...thats the word...:cheers5:
bargain hunter
05-09-12, 14:45
the record bid by world class land/fragrance must have been the trigger for this measure. :ashamed1:
Yes, feels like a half cooling measure by preventing developers from bidding over-zealously and passing that cost on the the home buyer with an entire block of MM.
the record bid by world class land/fragrance must have been the trigger for this measure. :ashamed1:
IMHO, it's a case of 'too little, too late'
bargain hunter
05-09-12, 14:53
AS USUAL! :simmering: WHEN ARE THEY GONNA PLUG THE BLOODY A/C LEDGE LOOPHOLE?! I HAVE BEEN SHOUTING THIS FOR MORE THAN A YEAR ALREADY. hahahahahaha.
IMHO, it's a case of 'too little, too late'
phantom_opera
05-09-12, 14:54
Their roti prata too popular, you must wait to be served :p
And limited in supply, pay ABSD if order more than you should
Singapore reins in 'shoebox' apartments
AFP News – 19 hours ago
Singapore on Tuesday said it will restrict the growth of "shoebox" private apartments in the suburbs to ease overcrowding concerns and encourage couples to have children.
The new cap will come into force on November 4 to "discourage new developments consisting predominantly of 'shoebox units' outside the Central Area", the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) said in a press release.
Shoebox units in Singapore typically measure 50 square metres (538 square feet) or less, about half the size of an average public housing apartment.
Singapore developers ramped up the construction of shoebox units to boost sales as land and other costs shot up in recent years.
Such units will increase more than four-fold from about 2,400 at the end of 2011 to about 11,000 units by the end of 2015, the URA said, adding that the share of small apartments in some developments can now reach 50-80 percent.
Such units "do not meet the needs of larger households and are not conducive for couples to have children," the body said, referring to a campaign for young Singaporeans to start families early and reverse the falling birth rate.
"A large concentration of such developments can strain the local road infrastructure as the number of housing units ends up much higher than what was originally planned for," it added.
Shoebox apartments command prices ranging from Sg$1,200-Sg$1,900 ($964-$1,526) per square foot.
Overcrowding in land-scarce Singapore has in recent years become a political topic, with the government's liberal immigration policies blamed for bringing in a massive influx of foreigners and straining local infrastructure.
This curb will boost the demand for shoebox development right at the fringe of the Central Area. These are actually city area, e.g. the other half of River Valley area, Stevens etc. Those developments within 350m from the Central Area boundary line.
Reason being supply of shoebox that is so close to the Central Area will be cut off. Though Central Area has no curb, and may seems attractive for developer to bid, if it gets to high, the shoebox will be launched at expensive price too leading to demand for higher rental. This is where those development within 350m of the Central Area will see a surge in rental demand as supply is limited and rental can be set cheaper than those in the Central Area.
Those REAL suburban area shoebox development such as at Kovan, Pasir Ris, Eunos, West Coast, Jurong etc, is everybody's guess in terms of its price movement. But do consider that the suburban also have rapidly aging population whom might like the idea of 1bedroom unit as retirement house.
Enbloc value goes down? Well these shoebox units are so young, give it another 20 years then we revisit enbloc topic ok. 20 years later, who knows got what policies...
So, in a nutshell, grab those so called shoebox developments that are not more than 350m from the Central Area boundary.
Too many ifs and too much speculation. Who knows what the climate is in 2015-2017 when many of the current PCs that are being built are completed?
Maybe interest rates have gone up by then?
What I see is that MND needs to show the sincerity in creating a sustainable picture for everyone. IMO, to the Govt, OCR MM price overall quantum is too low and offers too much affordability and temptation for especially the following two groups of people:
1. The rich and single - this highly mobile group should be encouraged to invest in central region instead of the easy option in OCR. Without much family commitments, they can definitely afford $1 mil apartments and above. If they choose OCR, they should be encouraged to buy larger apartments (overall quantum still close to or above $1 mil).
2. The young couple - when they seek the easiest private path, they get stuck when there is no space to produce children, and encounter difficulties if they attempt to switch back to HDB. Lots of difficulties resettling them. They should be encouraged to take up HDBs or larger OCR units to begin with.
It is still a story about quantum IMO.
It is still a story about quantum IMO. Indeed, quantum is still the key. The talk about shoebox = not setting up family is a lame excuse. Many years ago, it is quite common that in a 3rm HDB, there could be 5 family members staying there (parents and 3 kids). It is a matter of WANT or DONT WANT to start family rather than the size of the house.
Regulators
06-09-12, 00:26
If quantum still the key, will you pay $800k for a 400sqft unit in Telok Kurau?
Indeed, quantum is still the key. The talk about shoebox = not setting up family is a lame excuse. Many years ago, it is quite common that in a 3rm HDB, there could be 5 family members staying there (parents and 3 kids). It is a matter of WANT or DONT WANT to start family rather than the size of the house.
If quantum still the key, will you pay $800k for a 400sqft unit in Telok Kurau?
U need to realise that quantum needs to be compared and not standalone.
If i want a studio 400sqft and the cheapest is 800k at telok kurau, cos else where are already 1m and gelang studio are selling at 7xx, then yes, i will grab the telok kurau unit. This also mean that those bigger size units are selling way above $1m already.
Regulators
06-09-12, 10:22
That is why the quantum game can be dangerous sometimes. If affordability is the issue and the cheapest in tk is $800k for a 400sqft unit, it may sound cheap but psf is already $2k, making it the highest in that area if it is ever transacted at that price. People are too obssessed with quantum without considering the livability aspect of homes. I was very curious last time and personally went down to see a tiny 4xxsqft unit in tk with bomb shelter. I have to agree with the retiring CDL chief that it is indeed inhumane to live in such a small space.
U need to realise that quantum needs to be compared and not standalone.
If i want a studio 400sqft and the cheapest is 800k at telok kurau, cos else where are already 1m and gelang studio are selling at 7xx, then yes, i will grab the telok kurau unit. This also mean that those bigger size units are selling way above $1m already.
Wonder why Balestier is not under control??
That is why the quantum game can be dangerous sometimes. If affordability is the issue and the cheapest in tk is $800k for a 400sqft unit, it may sound cheap but psf is already $2k, making it the highest in that area if it is ever transacted at that price. People are too obssessed with quantum without considering the livability aspect of homes. I was very curious last time and personally went down to see a tiny 4xxsqft unit in tk with bomb shelter. I have to agree with the retiring CDL chief that it is indeed inhumane to live in such a small space.
livability is still adaptable, but enblocability will be a big problem when these MM apartments gets old, worst if it 99LH. I would imagine that in 20 years time, they should be many old and run down MM apartment that has got no possibility for enbloc.
That is why the quantum game can be dangerous sometimes. If affordability is the issue and the cheapest in tk is $800k for a 400sqft unit, it may sound cheap but psf is already $2k, making it the highest in that area if it is ever transacted at that price. People are too obssessed with quantum without considering the livability aspect of homes. I was very curious last time and personally went down to see a tiny 4xxsqft unit in tk with bomb shelter. I have to agree with the retiring CDL chief that it is indeed inhumane to live in such a small space.
Quantum game can be viewed from different perspectives. From a buyer's point of view, some aspects of liveability can be sacrificed for a lower loan and lower risk. Especially if abundant amenities are in the vicinity, there might not be a need for kitchen. 1 toilet might suffice. No need the space = not paying for it. Have you taken the floor plans from HDB and compared the sizes of 3-room HDB (2 bedroom HDB) vs 1 Bedroom or 1+S PC? The only real difference in size is the kitchen and extra toilet.
Still don't believe in the liveability? Why then is there still much demand and good yields from MM apartments? Is the market an illusion?
Quantum when viewed from the perspectives of Govt and bank is a different story. Lower quantum means lower loans and lower taxes collected upfront and subsequently = lower amounts going into national coffers. Also, the economy can only support a certain number of landlords, who do not directly contribute to the economy. These landlords probably retire early, and lower the overall productivity of the economy if their numbers are too huge. As such, the quantum required has to increase and not drop to maintain our competitiveness, to allow a longer servicing period for such people with multiple properties to work till official retirement ages. The additional amounts they pay in quantum and interests / taxes go into national coffers again. Win-win for all.
Still don't believe? Check out the prices of ECs and current new, well-located HDBs. Do you think cost of building has gone up by that much as compared to just five years ago? Why is it possible for first-batch Duxton owners to get 5-room flat below 300K and not possible now?
livability is still adaptable, but enblocability will be a big problem when these MM apartments gets old, worst if it 99LH. I would imagine that in 20 years time, they should be many old and run down MM apartment that has got no possibility for enbloc. 20years so many things will change. With inflation, land prices will go up definitely, so enbloc potential is still there. Also, most MM units are on Freehold land.
Who knows 20 years later the plot ratio will go up from 1.4 to 2? no one knows, hence no need to worry about enbloc.
That is why the quantum game can be dangerous sometimes. If affordability is the issue and the cheapest in tk is $800k for a 400sqft unit, it may sound cheap but psf is already $2k, making it the highest in that area if it is ever transacted at that price. People are too obssessed with quantum without considering the livability aspect of homes. I was very curious last time and personally went down to see a tiny 4xxsqft unit in tk with bomb shelter. I have to agree with the retiring CDL chief that it is indeed inhumane to live in such a small space. when u visit the 4xx sqft unit, what was the intention? if u go there with the plan of staying with spouse, two kids and a maid, of course it is inhumane. if it is just for your own stay, or even for you and newly wed spouse, it is still very liveable. see this:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11080210/for-rent-suites-eunos
So when one get a small unit, got to be realistic about the usage rather than just saying it is inhuman across the board. What is inhumane is to charge >$1000psf for 99LH properties at far-flung area like Kovan, Seng Kang, Bedok etc.
20years so many things will change. With inflation, land prices will go up definitely, so enbloc potential is still there. Also, most MM units are on Freehold land.
Who knows 20 years later the plot ratio will go up from 1.4 to 2? no one knows, hence no need to worry about enbloc.
In 20 years time, 500sqft will still be 500sqft. Even if government revise the plot ratio, those nonMM development will get enbloc first because en bloc is mostly about shrinking the average unit size.
Don't think there is a need to convince anyone. Different strokes different folks. Diversity is good. Without large units with large prices, shoeboxes wouldn't look attractive. Everything is relative....
Actually, smart developers can still capitalize on this by creating dual key apartments (e.g. FV). The apts total size would be about 753sf (70sqm) but its actually two MM units of smaller sizes. This has already been done in Flamingo valley. (dual key unit below 73sqm with a common foyer and two access doors)
http://www.e-singaporeproperty.com/image-files/flamingo-valley-condo-floor-plans-type-d1-2-bedroom-dual-key-unit.jpg
Sure the absolute quantum will be higher but potential buyers may still see the benefit of still paying high psf prices as they are essentially getting two MM units in one. They can either rent out both or stay in one and rent one out. Developers and bankers can even match-make co-buyers to be tenants-in-common if their budget is not sufficient.
Any developers can feel free to consult me (haha...) but better do it fast before big bro clamps down
I see this as no diff from partitioning out separate rooms. It is still ONE ADDRESS. No additional tax benefit? Will you be taxed at 4 or 10%?
Now you are gonna get taxed at 10% of the AV of the WHOLE apartment even if you are staying in one of the studio. No?
Regulators
06-09-12, 12:06
The prices of these MMs will eventually jack up the prices of larger units in the vicinity and will be used as a reference in pricing condos around the area and this is unhealthy. Since when has pricing for a condo in tk ever gone to $1500psf, all thanks to MM developments like the sound and cotz. Imo MM has a major impact on price increases of condos around the island significantly.
Actually, smart developers can still capitalize on this by creating dual key apartments (e.g. FV). The apts total size would be about 753sf (70sqm) but its actually two MM units of smaller sizes. This has already been done in Flamingo valley. (dual key unit below 73sqm with a common foyer and two access doors)
http://www.e-singaporeproperty.com/image-files/flamingo-valley-condo-floor-plans-type-d1-2-bedroom-dual-key-unit.jpg
Sure the absolute quantum will be higher but potential buyers may still see the benefit of still paying high psf prices as they are essentially getting two MM units in one. They can either rent out both or stay in one and rent one out. Developers and bankers can even match-make co-buyers to be tenants-in-common if their budget is not sufficient.
Any developers can feel free to consult me (haha...) but better do it fast before big bro clamps down
I see this as no diff from partitioning out separate rooms. It is still ONE ADDRESS. No additional tax benefit? Will you be taxed at 4 or 10%?
Now you are gonna get taxed at 10% of the AV of the WHOLE apartment even if you are staying in one of the studio. No?
Therein lies the beauty...Dual key units are self sufficient with their own kitchenette etc and function just like a separate MM. However, as long you, the owner stay in one of the unit, it is as you have pointed out, just like renting out a room. You should most likely be able to claim owner occupation rate. See below quote.
Anyway, just because a unit is double the size does not mean that the annual value is double. In most cases, the annual value is less. Hence the tax you pay for 2 MM units will definitely be more than the tax you pay for one unit which is double the size. Further more, once you have two units, you can only claim owner occupation tax rate for just ONE unit. The other will be taxed at 10%.
If you live in the property
If you are renting out rooms of the residential property which you live in, you are still eligible for the owner-occupier’s tax rates. You just need to write to IRAS to:
confirm that you are currently still living in your property;
provide the reason(s) for partially renting out your property; and
submit documentary proof such as copies of tenancy agreements, PUB bills, SC & CC bills, approval letter from HDB on room rentals, etc.
You are right proper.t it DOES make sense.... buy buy buy!!
Provided you can find tenants willing to live right beside the landlord....
If I paid for a whole studio, I would want more privacy than that.
You are right proper.t it DOES make sense.... buy buy buy!!
Provided you can find tenants willing to live right beside the landlord....
share dinner table?
No bad if you want to venture into guardian business for the rich kids and prepare to sacrifice.
share dinner table?
share dinner table?
Share bed, convert the other bed as 2nd dining table :p
bakasa2002
06-09-12, 15:43
I think you guys need to put up an ad saying 'Only HOT tenants need apply. Single air stewardess preferred' :)
phantom_opera
06-09-12, 15:56
I think you guys need to put up an ad saying 'Only HOT tenants need apply. Single air stewardess preferred' :)
Something like this? :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQ4gJo0bII
You are right proper.t it DOES make sense.... buy buy buy!!
Provided you can find tenants willing to live right beside the landlord....
If I paid for a whole studio, I would want more privacy than that.
Can be done. All depends on how the developer designs the units. Dual key units are meant to simulate standalone independent units. Not hard to design for privacy.
MM units as it stands already lack privacy as they squeeze so many into one floor so what's the diff? Anyway, if you don't want to stay, you can always rent out both units. You will still save on prop tax as the AV of your single unit will definitely be lower than if you had bought two units.
Just get one hot tenant ( as per bakasa2000 & phantom's suggestions) and I g'tee you will have no problem finding another :D
phantom_opera
06-09-12, 16:31
Can be done. All depends on how the developer designs the units. Dual key units are meant to simulate standalone independent units. Not hard to design for privacy.
MM units as it stands already lack privacy as they squeeze so many into one floor so what's the diff? Anyway, if you don't want to stay, you can always rent out both units. You will still save on prop tax as the AV of your single unit will definitely be lower than if you had bought two units.
Just get one hot tenant ( as per bakasa2000 & phantom's suggestions) and I g'tee you will have no problem finding another :D
but dual key units quantum will be higher isn't it, u also need more upfront payment ;)
but dual key units quantum will be higher isn't it, u also need more upfront payment ;)
Yep..that's one of the main drawbacks but you can always co-buy with a friend and share as tenants in common % based on area of the separate units. I am sure that creative developers will team up with bankers and lawyers to ensure that each party is legally and financially protected. The other drawback is that both of the co-owners will have to decide to sell together.
If the intention of both parties is to stay in CCR, then this could serve both their interest very well.
There are some investors who even buy a few MM units in the same devpt for rental income so this will suit them quite well too.
phantom_opera
06-09-12, 17:21
Yep..that's one of the main drawbacks but you can always co-buy with a friend and share as tenants in common % based on area of the separate units. I am sure that creative developers will team up with bankers and lawyers to ensure that each party is legally and financially protected. The other drawback is that both of the co-owners will have to decide to sell together.
If the intention of both parties is to stay in CCR, then this could serve both their interest very well.
There are some investors who even buy a few MM units in the same devpt for rental income so this will suit them quite well too.
sure, if want to buy a few units, dual key MMs make sense, end up paying less maintenance too ... how come Khaw never cover this loophole ;)
He was not alerted. :D
sure, if want to buy a few units, dual key MMs make sense, end up paying less maintenance too ... how come Khaw never cover this loophole ;)
sure, if want to buy a few units, dual key MMs make sense, end up paying less maintenance too ... how come Khaw never cover this loophole ;)
It may be a loophole but does not diminish the objective of minimizing strain on local infrastructure. Eg the number of car park lots had not increased. So the traffic flow will not worsen.
It may be a loophole but does not diminish the objective of minimizing strain on local infrastructure. Eg the number of car park lots had not increased. So the traffic flow will not worsen.
Cant believe that traffic condition is blamed on mm. Mm are mostly tenanted anf most DO NOT drive car. The one that should be blamed for parking situation are those landed houses whose pouch can only park on car, but they being rich have 3 family car. Park where? Outaide along the street lor and block the traffic!
Just compare the telok kurau lorong, the smoothest lorong is infact the one with most boutique development. Those with more landed is the worst!
Interesting view.
Since they being rich and live in landed, they can't spare some space in their own landed compound for their cars? Are they really rich or they very bad attitude/character and want to chop public road space as theirs? :doh:
Cant believe that traffic condition is blamed on mm. Mm are mostly tenanted anf most DO NOT drive car. The one that should be blamed for parking situation are those landed houses whose pouch can only park on car, but they being rich have 3 family car. Park where? Outaide along the street lor and block the traffic!
Just compare the telok kurau lorong, the smoothest lorong is infact the one with most boutique development. Those with more landed is the worst!
Interesting view.
Since they being rich and live in landed, they can't spare some space in their own landed compound for their cars? Are they really rich or they very bad attitude/character and want to chop public road space as theirs? :doh:
Some even more ridiculous, lazy to park car inside own pouch, and park outside. Dont believe, just come and see for yourself. I believe same situations at other landes estates too.
Some even more ridiculous, lazy to park car inside own pouch, and park outside. Dont believe, just come and see for yourself. I believe same situations at other landes estates too.
condo now limit the number of cars. Next alternative is landed.
Cant believe that traffic condition is blamed on mm. Mm are mostly tenanted anf most DO NOT drive car. The one that should be blamed for parking situation are those landed houses whose pouch can only park on car, but they being rich have 3 family car. Park where? Outaide along the street lor and block the traffic!
Just compare the telok kurau lorong, the smoothest lorong is infact the one with most boutique development. Those with more landed is the worst!
The recent rules mentioned "local infra", what else would be considered as local infrastructure? I can only think of road infrastructure here. You got a valid pt here, the authorities realized that the incumbents in those landed areas already had such problems so they now require the new condo development in this landed area to give way by imposing more development control.
The recent rules mentioned "local infra", what else would be considered as local infrastructure? I can only think of road infrastructure here. You got a valid pt here, the authorities realized that the incumbents in those landed areas already had such problems so they now require the new condo development in this landed area to give way by imposing more development control.
you rite. Ii have seen one landed with 2cars + one SUV + one lorry and one motorcycle.
occasionally the motor cycle is use to chop space. What irks me is the lorry as it limits the width and the garbage truck would blar the horn in the morning for one of the side to move the vehicle.
Bro lee observation is true... besides, most MM having mechanical park won't allow big cars or pickups. so even less likelihood of encouraging car use nor big cars to block the way.
Its like right hand beat left hand. MND saying URA/BCA messed up by approving shoebox developments.
Don't make the public pay for you internal family mistakes leh. pls.
It's not the fix for parking woes
by Conrad Raj
04:45 AM Sep 07, 2012
While the latest curbs on "shoebox" apartments are not as restrictive as some earlier feared, regular interference with market forces is not altogether welcome or a good thing.
There are already caps on the number, height and plot ratio for any development plot. Now the proposed new rules, which come into effect on Nov 4, essentially limit the number of units in a development by applying a minimum average dwelling site on any plot. In non-landed private developments outside the central area, the average home size needs to be at least 70 sq m.
Although the Government has not set a minimum size for any dwelling, developers are probably expected to have to stick to the current minimum of 50 sq m for any dwelling unit.
In areas like Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos, which "face more severe infrastructure conditions", a more stringent cap is supposed to apply. The stringency is yet to be defined.
Shoeboxes have found a ready market among singles, childless couples, retirees and investors who find them more affordable than the regular-sized apartments.
In its circular on Tuesday, the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) said: "However, others are concerned that shoebox units do not meet the needs of larger households with more than two members and are not conducive for couples to have children."
These people should not be buying shoebox developments in the first place.
However, by curbing such developments, one may be depriving those in need of such dwellings - such as singles, couples without children, retirees and investors, who love these units as they provide fairly good returns from being rented out, especially to single foreigners.
The URA said that while it "is of the view that having a certain proportion of shoebox units in our housing stock would help to cater to people with different needs and lifestyles ... there is a need to avoid a situation where the shoebox units form a disproportionately large portion of the total housing stock in Singapore".
It notes that some new housing developments consist "predominantly of shoebox units - as high as 50 per cent to 80 per cent".
The URA adds: "A large concentration of such developments can strain the local infrastructure as the number of housing units end up much higher than what was originally planned for."
In his blog, National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan explained how the Telok Kurau area had experienced "rampant development of tiny shoebox units ... resulting in disamenties such as severe traffic congestion, shortage of car parks and double parking".
Are these problems due entirely to shoebox developments? What about the number of good and well-known eating places that have sprouted up all over the area's narrow streets and lanes, which attract people from all over the island?
And what about the density of the population in that area? Even if you have larger units, it all depends on the number of people living in each unit - you can have six people living in a 1,000 sq ft place, while a shoebox of 500 sq ft may only have two. So these are problems of density rather than the size of abodes.
The URA should insist, rather, on an adequate number of car parks in these shoebox developments that cater not only to residents but also visitors. Such a requirement, incidentally, should automatically help reduce the number of shoebox units in order to make space for parking lots.
NATURAL WANE IN DEMAND
Shoeboxes may just be a fad and, in time, when bigger private dwellings become more affordable, people may want to switch to larger homes.
The number of completed shoebox units is expected to rise fourfold from 2,400 units as at the end of last year to 11,000 units by the close of 2015. But that is less than 1 per cent of Singapore's 1.3 million or so housing units.
And analysts are already forecasting demand for shoeboxes to drop. Such units comprised 27 per cent of sales of private housing units in the first three months of the year but fell to 19 per cent in the second quarter. Perhaps, with the rapid rise in the number of Housing Board flats, demand for shoebox apartments may wane sooner than expected.
Given a choice, how many really want to live in a small, crowded apartment? But there are people who are ineligible for Housing Board flats, because of their age in the case of singles like myself (I now live in a spacious HDB apartment bought on the resale market), or because of income for many couples, especially young professionals caught in limbo between HDB income limits and high private housing prices.
For them, shoeboxes provide a welcome panacea.
Conrad Raj is TODAY's editor-at-large.
Wild Falcon
07-09-12, 10:34
While I agree the shoebox situation is blown out of proportion in the suburbs (I don't see a single shoebox in my suburb), there are certain areas that really need some intervention lah, like Telok Kurau, Joo Chiat, East Coast, Geylang etc. There are numerous developments there that are 100% shoeboxes - very cramped like one house only one window type - really look like slum liao, and apartments so close together u can literally spit into your neighbour's unit. The residents there are really suffering and they deserve to be heard.
I think you guys need to put up an ad saying 'Only HOT tenants need apply. Single air stewardess preferred' :)
make sure got medical certification...CERTIFIED CLEAN AND FREE OF VIRUS:eek:
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