View Full Version : Paying for a shoebox
The price of shoebox apartments now are pretty high, with those more than 400sft generally selling between $700K to $1M (or above $1M in CCR).
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
Also, as a generic example, which would you choose: a brand new FH 400sft unit in D15 for say $800K, or a 900sft two bedroom unit in an old 99yr condo (e.g. Mandarin Gardens) for $900K?
The shoebox to me does look attractive investment given the relatively lower quantum but I just wonder if people will pay that much to buy one in the future.
Just trying to rationalize the above to see if I need to change my investment strategy.
phantom_opera
14-09-12, 07:59
M3 doubled from 2005 to 2012 ... what do u think?
60yLH ??
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
I am assuming that the other bedder size unit price also increase with time. You will need to target those who cannot afford other bedder size unit but die die want to stay in RCR/OCR. :D
Ture, money supply increased.. but it seems like that didn't translate into a proportionate income growth?
Cumulatively between 2001 and 2011, the median monthly household income from work per household member of resident employed households rose by 20 per cent in real terms, with most of the gains coming from 2006 to 2011. On a total household income basis, the median monthly household income from work rose by 22 per cent in real terms between 2001 and 2011.
Cumulative change in household income from 2011 to 2011: 49.2% increase (nominal), 21.9% (real).
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/pp-s18.pdf
So actually, if the Govt rolls out 60 yr leasehold, property prices might fall (due to lower quantum of these units)... and, the 10-20yr old leasehold projects will become somewhat more attractive? Hmmm...
The latest fashion now is MM 2 bedders of around 500sqft++. There are easier to rent out.
MM 1 bedders are outdated. :p
The price of shoebox apartments now are pretty high, with those more than 400sft generally selling between $700K to $1M (or above $1M in CCR).
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
Also, as a generic example, which would you choose: a brand new FH 400sft unit in D15 for say $800K, or a 900sft two bedroom unit in an old 99yr condo (e.g. Mandarin Gardens) for $900K?
The shoebox to me does look attractive investment given the relatively lower quantum but I just wonder if people will pay that much to buy one in the future.
Just trying to rationalize the above to see if I need to change my investment strategy.
Sometimes, we do not kow what we do not know. :beats-me-man:
Water town was a typical example. So high, but the take up rate was good. It was sold base on a urban planning concept of look and feel.
The same idea as South mumbai. Its a urban planning in motion.
But back to this topic, in the first place, no one would imagine that the MM would be able to sell as it may not be functional. It sort of a SIT flat that was build in the early years before HDB. Tiny, cramp but able to squeeze a family of 5.
Not much, but it is what it is.
If the prices becomes the norm and there is a increase of prices for MM, then who is to say that the price of MM is considered expensive.
Price is relative to when you purchase in time. I would find that Luxus Hill was expensive at 1.86 mil, it move to 2.9 mil. Yet there are people who buy. There is no right response on where the market is heading.
50% down, 15% down after many months of incremental increase, u are smack right back into why din I buy or why so many people bought?
Allthepies
14-09-12, 08:46
just like HDB set the floor, now MM set another floor for the bigger units... all property owners have no choice but to huat :D:D:D
Again another misconception of mm. Cannot compare mm to those hdb 1bedroom. Mm is a pte property not public housing, meaning people who are not that poor. This means tat the condition inside and outside is not cramp, dark and dirty like those hdb housing for the low income. Second, mm is never meant to squeeze 5people as a home! It is like telling u to squeeze 30people into a 1200sqft 5rm flat, doesnt make sense.
The price of shoebox apartments now are pretty high, with those more than 400sft generally selling between $700K to $1M (or above $1M in CCR).
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
Also, as a generic example, which would you choose: a brand new FH 400sft unit in D15 for say $800K, or a 900sft two bedroom unit in an old 99yr condo (e.g. Mandarin Gardens) for $900K?
The shoebox to me does look attractive investment given the relatively lower quantum but I just wonder if people will pay that much to buy one in the future.
Just trying to rationalize the above to see if I need to change my investment strategy.
cannot anyhow wack number, by saying tat the mm 400 sqft is same price or closely priced to the older 900 sqft unit, it means tat the psf of the 900sqft mandarin gardens is about half of the mm unit, which isnt the case man. Need to look at psf., mm is usually about 20 to 30% more exp in terms of psf compared to another unit that is double its size. Hence if a mm cost 800k, a 900sqft will cost more than 1m, probably 1.2-1.3m. Assuming same district.
The price of shoebox apartments now are pretty high, with those more than 400sft generally selling between $700K to $1M (or above $1M in CCR).
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
Also, as a generic example, which would you choose: a brand new FH 400sft unit in D15 for say $800K, or a 900sft two bedroom unit in an old 99yr condo (e.g. Mandarin Gardens) for $900K?
The shoebox to me does look attractive investment given the relatively lower quantum but I just wonder if people will pay that much to buy one in the future.
Just trying to rationalize the above to see if I need to change my investment strategy.
If not sure, better don't invest.
Best bet...buy brand new dual key with fresh 99yrs lease.
For those older 99yrs LH, don't know whether they will succeed in extending the lease or getting enbloc now that the trend seems to be going towards shorter lease life.
cannot anyhow wack number, by saying tat the mm 400 sqft is same price or closely priced to the older 900 sqft unit, it means tat the psf of the 900sqft mandarin gardens is about half of the mm unit, which isnt the case man. Need to look at psf., mm is usually about 20 to 30% more exp in terms of psf compared to another unit that is double its size. Hence if a mm cost 800k, a 900sqft will cost more than 1m, probably 1.2-1.3m. Assuming same district.
Fair enough, but question is, would it be wiser to pay the higher quantum?
The numbers I suggested are just estimates. Think if we were to go into PSF, it may become more complex discussion and at the end of the day, for me, I will look at quantum as the first step and review PSF thereafter.
Anyway, as e.g. Coralis selling 495sft for $840K ($1696psf), Mandarin Gardens selling 1000sft (2bdr) for $1.2M ($1189psf) or 829sft (1 bdr) for $800K ($1085psf).
Fair enough, but question is, would it be wiser to pay the higher quantum?
The numbers I suggested are just estimates. Think if we were to go into PSF, it may become more complex discussion and at the end of the day, for me, I will look at quantum as the first step and review PSF thereafter.
Anyway, as e.g. Coralis selling 495sft for $840K ($1696psf), Mandarin Gardens selling 1000sft (2bdr) for $1.2M ($1189psf) or 829sft (1 bdr) for $800K ($1085psf).Ah, coralis is new, means more premium. also, the location for Coralis is more superior than Mandarin gardens cos got two malls, near hdb ammenities. u should compare coralis with the older devt 800 sqft dev there for better comparison.
my take is that, if you want to invest in mm, go for smallest quantum. meaning go for the 3xx sqft (at least 360sqft). dont think that 350 sqft is very cramp compared to those 495 sqft, cos 495 sqft may come with huge balcony, planter or AC ledge. deduct may become 400 sqft livable area.
rule of thumb, location, smallest possible quantum, at least 350sqft. go visit those top mm such as suites@ eunos for a feel of wat the tenant will experience. i think 344 sqft is not good, the 366 sqft size is comfortable. but tat location so so. i would budget 800k for a 3xx sqft at prime district 9 or 10 area. personally i think 840k for d15 mm not worth the bang.
blackjack21trader
14-09-12, 10:40
The price of shoebox apartments now are pretty high, with those more than 400sft generally selling between $700K to $1M (or above $1M in CCR).
If anybody were to purchase these units as investment, then they are probably thinking that they would be able to sell these small units for more than $1M in the future. This of course is a matter of time.
Question is, do you think people will fork out more than $1M to buy a 400sft apartment in RCR/OCR?
Also, as a generic example, which would you choose: a brand new FH 400sft unit in D15 for say $800K, or a 900sft two bedroom unit in an old 99yr condo (e.g. Mandarin Gardens) for $900K?
The shoebox to me does look attractive investment given the relatively lower quantum but I just wonder if people will pay that much to buy one in the future.
Just trying to rationalize the above to see if I need to change my investment strategy.
One room US$1Million, living room not included hor.
phantom_opera
14-09-12, 10:44
very soon, we will follow HK, developers will sell car park separately
and then common lift area will be included :banghead:
The latest fashion now is MM 2 bedders of around 500sqft++. There are easier to rent out.
MM 1 bedders are outdated. :p
You are very observant.
I prefer 650-700sqft 2 bedder and FH. Any good recommendations?
Thanks.
Best bet...buy brand new dual key with fresh 99yrs lease.
For those older 99yrs LH, don't know whether they will succeed in extending the lease or getting enbloc now that the trend seems to be going towards shorter lease life.
Dual key can be tricky for rental.
Anyway, as e.g. Coralis selling 495sft for $840K ($1696psf), Mandarin Gardens selling 1000sft (2bdr) for $1.2M ($1189psf) or 829sft (1 bdr) for $800K ($1085psf).
Why compare a BUC FH development with a very old 99LH project?
Between these 2, i will pick the FH.
Coralis location is alot better as well.
Don't be stupid to buy a resale shoebox now. Take it from a shoebox supporter who has been actively looking at this segment for over half a decade.
The boat has long gone. The ones you see passing by now are all with holes underneath.
There might still be some gems around. You will have to look REALLY REALLY hard though.
Capital gain? Maybe. If you can find one with announced planned developments coming up nearby within 1km.
Rental yield? At todays price, forget about getting good yields.
Don't be stupid to buy a resale shoebox now. Take it from a shoebox supporter who has been actively looking at this segment for over half a decade.
The boat has long gone. The ones you see passing by now are all with holes underneath.
There might still be some gems around. You will have to look REALLY REALLY hard though.
Capital gain? Maybe. If you can find one with announced planned developments coming up nearby within 1km.
Rental yield? At todays price, forget about getting good yields.I think at the end of the day, just buy what you can afford.
when gold was US$1000/oz, they say boat pass liao, when US$1200, say same thing. buy what you can lah.
ikan bilis
14-09-12, 13:42
I think at the end of the day, just buy what you can afford.
when gold was US$1000/oz, they say boat pass liao, when US$1200, say same thing. buy what you can lah.
if nothing good to buy then don't buy, just hold tight tight to whatever you already have (and don't sell either, at least not time to sell yet)....
if nothing good to buy then don't buy, let your ca$h rot at 3-4% inflation rate is 96-7% capital protection....
:beats-me-man:
Don't be stupid to buy a resale shoebox now. Take it from a shoebox supporter who has been actively looking at this segment for over half a decade.
The boat has long gone. The ones you see passing by now are all with holes underneath.
There might still be some gems around. You will have to look REALLY REALLY hard though.
Capital gain? Maybe. If you can find one with announced planned developments coming up nearby within 1km.
Rental yield? At todays price, forget about getting good yields.
Yup, I am actually inclined towards normal sized units (or at least 600sft), or old walk-ups (which are hugely popular now but suprebly overpriced).
High rental yied? Have! Geylang... but that's another story and I bet there's a long discussion on this in the D14 thread.
Don't be stupid to buy a resale shoebox now. Take it from a shoebox supporter who has been actively looking at this segment for over half a decade.
The boat has long gone. The ones you see passing by now are all with holes underneath.
There might still be some gems around. You will have to look REALLY REALLY hard though.
Capital gain? Maybe. If you can find one with announced planned developments coming up nearby within 1km.
Rental yield? At todays price, forget about getting good yields.
yup the boat is long gone for now.. I still remember the last time skysuites @ anson at tanjong pagar some units were going at 690k+ [cheapest] then for the same stack at super high floor but still kenna blocked by icon were selling at 890k+[most exp] zzz
@ikan ya even smelly smelly put in fd also got 1.28% to mitigate the inflation, or if haven't use cpf can leave it in OA earn higher interest....
@silver well geylang is not so simple. there are way too many to compete with yours so unless yours is the BEST or WORST of geylang (BEST can charge high high rent, WORST you would have bought low anyway and can charge low to get decent yield) you would have to fight with the other say 800 units of shoeboxes for tenants, not just upon TOP, but forever and ever going forward. You might have to prepare to accept low yield or months of vacancy while waiting for the one willing to pay. if anybody left in the first place.
@dtrax well those were the days. even 500k can buy a lot of things.
if nothing good to buy then don't buy, just hold tight tight to whatever you already have (and don't sell either, at least not time to sell yet)....
if nothing good to buy then don't buy, let your ca$h rot at 3-4% inflation rate is 96-7% capital protection....
:beats-me-man:
Good points.
People forget that during the last crisis few years ago, those who put their money in FD had the last laugh compared to those who chased after high yielding bonds. At least their principal is intact plus a small amount of interest.
At today's prices, most yields for MMs are around 3.5-4%, CCR MM, some even lower and if minus 1% interest and 1% tax/mainten cost etc, its around 1.5-2.0%, and that presume there is no vacancy period. Capital appreciation plus minus 5%, despite the feel good factor again the last few months, prices are not going to run away.
Good points.
People forget that during the last crisis few years ago, those who put their money in FD had the last laugh compared to those who chased after high yielding bonds. At least their principal is intact plus a small amount of interest.
At today's prices, most yields for MMs are around 3.5-4%, CCR MM, some even lower and if minus 1% interest and 1% tax/mainten cost etc, its around 1.5-2.0%, and that presume there is no vacancy period. Capital appreciation plus minus 5%, despite the feel good factor again the last few months, prices are not going to run away.
Those who are in the market looking for a property right now will realise prices have actually started over the past 2 weeks to "run away" especially for sub-sale and completed properties. Sellers have started withdrawing their properties from the market and asking prices have been jacked by.
Those who are in the market looking for a property right now will realise prices have actually started over the past 2 weeks to "run away" especially for sub-sale and completed properties. Sellers have started withdrawing their properties from the market and asking prices have been jacked by.I also noticed this. esp for mm units below 800k (non-geylang).
The latest fashion now is MM 2 bedders of around 500sqft++. There are easier to rent out.
MM 1 bedders are outdated. :p
provided the MM 2 bedders come with 2 toilets....
many have just 1 toilet..:cheers5:
You are very observant.
I prefer 650-700sqft 2 bedder and FH. Any good recommendations?
Thanks.
8 riversuites got 700sqft 2 bedders with good layout. But pricing ultra ex unless u are ok with totally blocked views unit.
The upcoming Kovan regency got 603sqft mini 2 bedders as well.
FH smaller developments all got MM 2 bedders.
:beats-me-man:
provided the MM 2 bedders come with 2 toilets....
many have just 1 toilet..:cheers5:
M66 at moonstone lane got MM 2 bedders with 2 toilets. :p
Don't be stupid to buy a resale shoebox now. Take it from a shoebox supporter who has been actively looking at this segment for over half a decade.
The boat has long gone. The ones you see passing by now are all with holes underneath.
There might still be some gems around. You will have to look REALLY REALLY hard though.
Capital gain? Maybe. If you can find one with announced planned developments coming up nearby within 1km.
Rental yield? At todays price, forget about getting good yields.
True, difficult to find CCR MMs at 4% gross yield, able to find 2 years ago. 1 year ago can find at CCR fringe.... Now have to look really hard.... :simmering:
Now, in RCR or even OCR... Not sure about rentability when and if the market turns....:beats-me-man:
True, difficult to find CCR MMs at 4% gross yield, able to find 2 years ago. 1 year ago can find at CCR fringe.... Now have to look really hard.... :simmering:
Now, in RCR or even OCR... Not sure about rentability when and if the market turns....:beats-me-man:u sure don't have? RV Suites, RV Edge.
how much rent do you reckon those rv things you can ask for?
just browse property guru for the asking rent of newly top Vivace, in way better location. below 3k
phantom_opera
14-09-12, 23:48
it does not matter ... soon you will be crying according to Marc Faber or Mr B
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/marc-faber-fed-will-destroy-world
Fed will destroy the world, but he has no idea when :tongue3:
how much rent do you reckon those rv things you can ask for?
just browse property guru for the asking rent of newly top Vivace, in way better location. below 3k
Say purchase price for a 366sqft is 750k, monthly rent $2800
Gross yield 4.48%
Even if rent is at conservative 2500. Gross yield is 4%
how much rent do you reckon those rv things you can ask for?
just browse property guru for the asking rent of newly top Vivace, in way better location. below 3k
min 3k is still possible, it all depends on how much the original owners purchase. If they buy 6xxk range, <3k possible if landlord wanna rent out to get cashflow.
Geylang OKT
15-09-12, 07:30
IMHO, it really doesnt make sense to buy shoebox apts. Forget about rental yield. Govt is starting to clamp down hard on the immigration front i.e. fewer potential tenants going forward.
So, in a couple of years time, there will be many more empty apts chasing far fewer tenants. So what more of mickey mouse units? :2cents:
for smaller apartments and purchase price, the perceived gross yield can vary a LOT from the actual net yield.
maintenance fees for eg is a flat amount and not based on %. agent comms, property tax, is percentage, but the amount can be substantial in relative to absolute quantum. next is furnishing, equipment repair and maintenance, which again, are all absolute amounts and need to be spent every two years upon lease termination or renewal. after factoring all the above, lets see if the yield is still decent vs other classes of investment.
I am bearish (based on the current market price) of shoebox. As I said, the Golden Age of shoebox one bedder is pass.
Consider a shoebox two bedder.
bro okt, if FT influx is clamped, every size of apartment lease will be affected not just shoebox.
Lets base on the figures given. 750k at 3k rent.
(3000-250 maint)x12 annual rent
-2500 property tax assuming AV 25000
-1500 half month rent per yr for agent comm excl gst
-300 misc for repairs and maintenance
-1200 for furnishing amortised over 5yrs
=27500 per yr net cash
/750000 = 3.67% net yield
assuming borrowed 60%
/300000 = 9.17% true yield
Ok still doable not too bad actually.
ikan bilis
15-09-12, 09:40
Lets base on the figures given. 750k at 3k rent.
(3000-250 maint)x12 annual rent
-2500 property tax assuming AV 25000
-1500 half month rent per yr for agent comm excl gst
-300 misc for repairs and maintenance
-1200 for furnishing amortised over 5yrs
=27500 per yr net cash
/750000 = 3.67% net yield
assuming borrowed 60%
/300000 = 9.17% true yield
Ok still doable not too bad actually.
bro... this 1 got bank interest...
ikan bilis
15-09-12, 09:42
:2cents: :cheers4:
for smaller apartments and purchase price, the perceived gross yield can vary a LOT from the actual net yield.
maintenance fees for eg is a flat amount and not based on %. agent comms, property tax, is percentage, but the amount can be substantial in relative to absolute quantum. next is furnishing, equipment repair and maintenance, which again, are all absolute amounts and need to be spent every two years upon lease termination or renewal. after factoring all the above, lets see if the yield is still decent vs other classes of investment.
bank interest hard to calculate wo as it moves and keeps changing... plus early years you are mostly paying off the interest while later yrs paying more off the principal....
ikan bilis
15-09-12, 10:02
Lets base on the figures given. 750k at 3k rent.
(3000-250 maint)x12 annual rent
-2500 property tax assuming AV 25000
-1500 half month rent per yr for agent comm excl gst
-300 misc for repairs and maintenance
-1200 for furnishing amortised over 5yrs
=27500 per yr net cash
/750000 = 3.67% net yield
assuming borrowed 60%
/300000 = 9.17% true yield
Ok still doable not too bad actually.
bro, i mean....
for /750000 = 3.67% net yield...
assuming borrowed 60% (assuming interest at 1.2%)
estimated yield should be 3.67 + (3.67-1.2)*1.5 = 7.38% only..., after deducting the bank loan interest....
:rolleyes:
phantom_opera
15-09-12, 10:46
Yawn, more realistic is 5 pc I thought amk has discussed b4 l
if its just 5%, i would rather invest in Reits! we should be looking at the power of leverage. and capital appreciation ba.
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you know what? we both wrong.... forgot to deduct MONTHLY MORTGAGE!!!!!!!
argh!!!!!!!!!!!
actual true yield super low!!!!!!!
ikan bilis
15-09-12, 11:25
you know what? we both wrong.... forgot to deduct MONTHLY MORTGAGE!!!!!!!
argh!!!!!!!!!!!
actual true yield super low!!!!!!!
heya, bro...
include full monthly mortgage instalment... that's computing cashflow....
and if only deduct monthly interest charged.... that's computing yield (profit & loss)...
anyway, hk side people more crazy, gross yield for residential now is at 3%, for retail space/shop now is about 1%.... i think they are buying on future increasing rental (like buying stock on future PE)... :scared-4:
if its just 5%, i would rather invest in Reits! we should be looking at the power of leverage. and capital appreciation ba.
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you know what? we both wrong.... forgot to deduct MONTHLY MORTGAGE!!!!!!!
argh!!!!!!!!!!!
actual true yield super low!!!!!!!
750k, assuming 60% loan, at 1.5%, monthly interest is $562.
(3000-250 maint)x12 annual rent
-2500 property tax assuming AV 25000
-1500 half month rent per yr for agent comm excl gst
-300 misc for repairs and maintenance
-1200 for furnishing amortised over 5yrs
- 6744 interest (562*12)
=20756 per yr net cash
Since initial cash outlay is $300000
True yield = 20576/300000 = 6.91%
This 300000 buy put in bank fd, max 1.65%
phantom_opera
15-09-12, 11:39
This 300k buy genting perpetual yield 5pc first 10y if not called earn 6.1pc, tax free
Don't forget the time and stress of managing tenants and agents
ah I see bro fishy...:/ I not finance knowledge solli
This 300k buy genting perpetual yield 5pc first 10y if not called earn 6.1pc, tax free
Don't forget the time and stress of managing tenants and agents
This is the main reason now I moved into bonds with leverage and REIT....
It is getting more and more difficult from the tenants....they have too many choices, and very difficult to find tenants above $5,000 alr...
Those who are in the market looking for a property right now will realise prices have actually started over the past 2 weeks to "run away" especially for sub-sale and completed properties. Sellers have started withdrawing their properties from the market and asking prices have been jacked by.
Surprised to know that prices have started to run away at current proices.
Plus minus a few % is more likely in the next few years.
Do u know which resale/subsale projects are setting record prices?
Sky habitat and FEO Centros at AMK now breached 2k pfs yet?
min 3k is still possible, it all depends on how much the original owners purchase. If they buy 6xxk range, <3k possible if landlord wanna rent out to get cashflow.Yup, even at $2500, yield is not too bad, and at that rent rate, sure snap up in shortest time.
actually planned to invest in another 1 month back, a smaller quantum ccr mm, to enter before qe3 announcement; was held back for some reasons.
thinking seriously once again, even though prices have since moved up.
thanks for sharing all the above considerations and calculations. also discussed with my guru who likes bigger quantum investments.
some of my considerations now are:
which condo? any difference between studio and 1+s? maybe should go for bigger ones, as suggested...
new launch vs resale?
qe3 impact?
qe3 has come in with the 40bil monthly generation. if the fed has the same 600bil budget as the last 2, then it will last for 15 months thereabouts. before us recovers fully, funds may flow to asia. after that, funds will flow back out. then will we be left holding the baby? fortunately the absd is already in place and every new entrant into this market helps to further prop up our market.
...
another interesting angle:
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Business+Times+says+there+is+no+property+bubble/
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2012-09-13/BT_20120908_HLMONEY8_155031.pdf
lots of homework tonight... :D
Should i get a 4xxk 1 bedder now or save for another year to get a 6xxk unit with more choices?
Should i get a 4xxk 1 bedder now or save for another year to get a 6xxk unit with more choices?
but you already said 1br mm is passe. then how?
unless you get ccr 1br mm. or like some forummers suggested, rcr mm that is just outside ccr or near mrt.
Should i get a 4xxk 1 bedder now or save for another year to get a 6xxk unit with more choices?
U should get a 2 bedder mm as what u said in earlier thread..
Must walk the talk..practise what u preach. :cheers5:
Should i get a 4xxk 1 bedder now or save for another year to get a 6xxk unit with more choices?
4xx k, i supposed would be at ulu area. Say kovan, pasir ris, woodlands etc. rent to who?
Up your budget to 7xxk to 8xx k and get ccr mm. D9, 10, 11. Above 350sqft.
750k, assuming 60% loan, at 1.5%, monthly interest is $562.
(3000-250 maint)x12 annual rent
-2500 property tax assuming AV 25000
-1500 half month rent per yr for agent comm excl gst
-300 misc for repairs and maintenance
-1200 for furnishing amortised over 5yrs
- 6744 interest (562*12)
=20756 per yr net cash
Since initial cash outlay is $300000
True yield = 20576/300000 = 6.91%
This 300000 buy put in bank fd, max 1.65%
Don't forget many MMs at 3xx-4xx sqft were bought at 400-500+k! or Even 3xxk for Kovan Grandeur, 8 woodleigh etc. their real yield will be a lot higher! not forgetting they may not be in the 60% LTV group.
4xx k, i supposed would be at ulu area. Say kovan, pasir ris, woodlands etc. rent to who?
Up your budget to 7xxk to 8xx k and get ccr mm. D9, 10, 11. Above 350sqft.
kovan ulu meh? ppl pay 3k+ for Kovan Grandeur.
if at 7xx-8xxk u're expecting to rent 2.8-3k, 4xxk quantum u can afford to go for lower rental but still get the same yield if not even higher.
There were many recent FH launched MMs which were quite ok in prices. or even 99years LH at 3xx-4xxk. Just need to pick the right one. Usually the fairly priced MMs are snapped up in days. No time to slowly think.
Look at Casa Cambio, Sycamore tree, Millage or even Guillemard Edge which was selling at much lower prices compared to nearby projects even comes with condo status.
phantom_opera
15-09-12, 19:54
azeo, better wait for enough bullet, just my opinion .. I am pretty much in the same shoes as u :p
azeo, better wait for enough bullet, just my opinion .. I am pretty much in the same shoes as u :p
Ok i shall wait. :D
1 bedder is safer.
Yea, think my min will be 1 bdr.. But a little patience required now
Yea, think my min will be 1 bdr.. But a little patience required now
Prices for them are moving up. Especially with restriction in supplies and rising demand over the next few years. Good ones that are FH/999LH and near MRT are above $600k now (excluding Geylang).
Pikachu1245
16-09-12, 09:02
kovan ulu meh? ppl pay 3k+ for Kovan Grandeur.
if at 7xx-8xxk u're expecting to rent 2.8-3k, 4xxk quantum u can afford to go for lower rental but still get the same yield if not even higher.
There were many recent FH launched MMs which were quite ok in prices. or even 99years LH at 3xx-4xxk. Just need to pick the right one. Usually the fairly priced MMs are snapped up in days. No time to slowly think.
Look at Casa Cambio, Sycamore tree, Millage or even Guillemard Edge which was selling at much lower prices compared to nearby projects even comes with condo status.
Even Ulu Sembawang (actual name in street directory) does not appear ulu anymore. Just look at the upcoming development such as Nautical, Canberra Residences, Sales of B1 commercial buidlings aroung Gambas Area, NSE passing by Sembawang within this decade.
Very soon each town (Sembawang/Yishun/Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Changi/CCK/Boon Lay ) will be more self sufficient in terms of jobs, shopping, housing. Hence you can see that the psf of OCR trending up fast and CCR/OCR slow. Why, I beieve because of the above reasons. There will be less and less people needing to rush to CCR/OCR to work and they will stay within their 'satellite' town mostly.
Occasionally, they may go to Orchard / Marina. But more likely, some will venture further to Malaysia as the RTS (Woodlands-Near NP) materialises ina couple of years' time.
..... Just my :2cents: view.
Even Ulu Sembawang (actual name in street directory) does not appear ulu anymore. Just look at the upcoming development such as Nautical, Canberra Residences, Sales of B1 commercial buidlings aroung Gambas Area, NSE passing by Sembawang within this decade.
Very soon each town (Sembawang/Yishun/Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Changi/CCK/Boon Lay ) will be more self sufficient in terms of jobs, shopping, housing. Hence you can see that the psf of OCR trending up fast and CCR/OCR slow. Why, I beieve because of the above reasons. There will be less and less people needing to rush to CCR/OCR to work and they will stay within their 'satellite' town mostly.
Occasionally, they may go to Orchard / Marina. But more likely, some will venture further to Malaysia as the RTS (Woodlands-Near NP) materialises ina couple of years' time.
..... Just my :2cents: view.could be right, could be wrong. bedok, amk, clementi, tampines are self-sufficient. but most residents there still travel to ccr, ca to work. CBD is always CBD, that is part of ura planning.
could be right, could be wrong. bedok, amk, clementi, tampines are self-sufficient. but most residents there still travel to ccr, ca to work. CBD is always CBD, that is part of ura planning.
Increasingly, businesses are shifting to cheaper OCR, especially operations and leaving their front office in CCR for the "image" when customers visit. look at business parks in paya lebar, changi. the latest is changi business park. many banks, offices
as an eastie, I am happy many major businesses are relocating offices to changi and plb side.
as an eastie, I am happy many major businesses are relocating offices to changi and plb side.
:cheers4: wonder how will plb look like after 5 years
should look either like CBP or IBP
as an eastie, I am happy many major businesses are relocating offices to changi and plb side.
whats plb? yes the east is hot. bedok, tampines, tanah merah properties are so exp now
paya le bar.
hmmm suddenly sounds French. lol
paya le bar.
hmmm suddenly sounds French. lol
oh yea. hope the business hub will come up soon. So neighbouring projects like spl will huat! but if too many business coming over to east, rent will go up and the next destination is the cheaper north or west.
4xx k, i supposed would be at ulu area. Say kovan, pasir ris, woodlands etc. rent to who?
Up your budget to 7xxk to 8xx k and get ccr mm. D9, 10, 11. Above 350sqft.700k-800k can't buy mm in CCR anymore. Min 900k now
Yes but back end low paying jobs. Front end High Paying jobs still in CCR since image very important, cannot appear cheapskate.
Increasingly, businesses are shifting to cheaper OCR, especially operations and leaving their front office in CCR for the "image" when customers visit. look at business parks in paya lebar, changi. the latest is changi business park. many banks, offices
700k-800k can't buy mm in CCR anymore. Min 900k now have, but dryin up. go to propertyguru to filter. less than 10 units in the whole of D9 and D10. I won't consider Bassein as it is more towards balestier, kind of like a fake D11, just like mackezie which is towards little india, another fake d09.
The last real D10 MM with 7xxk was Loft@Stevens launched in Feb 2011.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=10603
:beats-me-man:
The last real D10 MM with 7xxk was Loft@Stevens launched in Feb 2011.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=10603
:beats-me-man:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing?listing_type=sale&search_type=district&property_type=&districts%5B%5D=D09&districts%5B%5D=D10&school=&mrt=&address=&property_id=&latitude=&longitude=&interest=&hdb_type_group=&minprice=200000&maxprice=800000&minbed=&maxbed=&minsize=&maxsize=&minsize_land=&maxsize_land=&tenure%5B%5D=F&freetext=&minpsf=&maxpsf=&listing_posted=&mintop=&maxtop=&view=P&min_latitude=&max_latitude=&min_longitude=&max_longitude=
less than 10 in D9, D10.
have, but dryin up. go to propertyguru to filter. less than 10 units in the whole of D9 and D10. I won't consider Bassein as it is more towards balestier, kind of like a fake D11, just like mackezie which is towards little india, another fake d09.
Most of the prices are to lure interest. I don't think the ofr are for real.
Most of the prices are to lure interest. I don't think the ofr are for real.
They are real, call and u will know lor.
They are real, call and u will know lor.
Ya. Agent give me other option at a similar price range. 8 bassien at 848k already sold out iirc
It's not the first time already, from 2006 when I was looking for property.
Same ole tricks... just as those who advertise "View to offer", "Offers in excess of"... truly misleading
Same ole tricks... just as those who advertise "View to offer", "Offers in excess of"... truly misleading
Not only that, majority of them don't even have a real seller.
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