More Transparency in Rent, Will trigger more REALISTIC Asking Price? [Archive] - Condo Forum Singapore Property Review Mortgage Loan Buy Rent Sell Real Estate

leesg123

30-10-12, 18:29

DKSG

30-10-12, 18:37

Thanks to bro/sis amk for this thread:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15465

This is to discuss the implication:

on URA new initiative to show the rental contracts. With such clear visibility, I believe it will result in more realistic asking price.

Say buyer is willing to accept 3-4% rental yield for a particular unit, looking at recent months contract say is $4000, this translates to a property price of $1.2m (to get 4% yield) up to $1.6m (to get 3% yield).

So is win-win to all party. Seller can peg the price at a reasonable range, buyer has a clear indication of rental yield (so won't over pay for a property).

I think this is really quite silly ... Not sure about HDB but for private properties, I have hardly come across any tenants who is not aware of the going rentals one. All of them come telling u all sorts of rentals people are asking for (ie lower than yours).

At the end of the day, it really depends on the supply and demand. If there are more tenants then units, landlords CONFIRM will ask for more!

Currently landlord got upper hand, with interest rates so low, holding costs are also low. Getting a good rental (even at the expense of missing out a few months' rent) is certainly worth the wait. A good rental indicates a good yield, which makes the property looks good!

Not sure why the authorities feel that landlords and tenants are not aware of going rental prices ?

For those more experienced than Office Boy, what are your thoughts?

Office Boy always ask for MORE, it may take a bit longer to rent out, but so far not issues leh.

DKSG

Allthepies

30-10-12, 19:32

yup my unit always set the benchmark for my development and area. landlords should set high standard to boost the value of their developments!

carbuncle

30-10-12, 19:35

Like i mentioned in the other thread, Transparency is a double edged sword like the letter t. It can cut both ways.

chestnut

30-10-12, 19:47

Bro, here to discuss strategies.

For discussion sake, if you can say share with me what is your asking rental and how many months you willing to sacrifice to get the the higher rental. Vs a quick rental say 1 week.

So higher rental : $ (input)
Take how many months to rent out :

Lower rental sure to get rental immediate : $(input)
Take immediate to rent out - say at most 1 week.

Please put in fictitious but realistic numbers to work it out. Then I can understand what kind of differential you are talking about.

This is just an exercise for me to understand where u coming from. The differential between the 2 rental months and the differential between the month to rent out is important. And lastly, I also need to understand are u priming to sell your unit at higher price based on yield.

I think this is really quite silly ... Not sure about HDB but for private properties, I have hardly come across any tenants who is not aware of the going rentals one. All of them come telling u all sorts of rentals people are asking for (ie lower than yours).

At the end of the day, it really depends on the supply and demand. If there are more tenants then units, landlords CONFIRM will ask for more!

Currently landlord got upper hand, with interest rates so low, holding costs are also low. Getting a good rental (even at the expense of missing out a few months' rent) is certainly worth the wait. A good rental indicates a good yield, which makes the property looks good!

Not sure why the authorities feel that landlords and tenants are not aware of going rental prices ?

For those more experienced than Office Boy, what are your thoughts?

Office Boy always ask for MORE, it may take a bit longer to rent out, but so far not issues leh.

DKSG

Allthepies

30-10-12, 19:55

be good to ur house and tenants and u have no problm renting high with 0day downtime.:)

leesg123

30-10-12, 20:31

yup my unit always set the benchmark for my development and area. landlords should set high standard to boost the value of their developments!
Do u use agent?

Allthepies

30-10-12, 20:57

Do u use agent?

Definitely, agent plays an impt part too! My agent is very good, has been giving me tenants that are higher than my asking!

phantom_opera

30-10-12, 21:20

u need luck to find high paying yet willing to maintain your unit for u ...

Allthepies

30-10-12, 21:28

u need luck to find high paying yet willing to maintain your unit for u ...

Yuppy im quite lucky, I'm also very selective of the tenant.. No this no that :D

kane

30-10-12, 22:07

maybe i too nice, everytime heart soft, like the tenant so agree to lower rental.

ysyap

30-10-12, 22:18

Yuppy im quite lucky, I'm also very selective of the tenant.. No this no that :DOf course must be selective lah otherwise you'll regret later... anyway also must know how much to pull and how much to let go. Me also no this no that but once criteria is met, tenant asks for some other stuff I readily say ok ok just to make tenants feel happier... Lol. Me thinking more of long term rental.. :cheers1:

hyenergix

30-10-12, 22:19

In a rising market, this data will cause panic among tenants. In a falling market, the data will cause panic among landlords.

I believe rental is on the uptrend for HDB due to expatriats having lower housing budget over the next few years. Once you have a critical mass of them staying in HDB (I project around next year), then the trend will kick in because it simply makes more economical sense in a stagflation environment.

ysyap

30-10-12, 22:19

maybe i too nice, everytime heart soft, like the tenant so agree to lower rental.V important to like tenants so if tenant is so good, no harm lowering rental but will feel happy and rested. No point having one high rental yield but always give loads of problem. In the end lose out even more... :scared-5:

stiook

30-10-12, 22:35

V important to like tenants so if tenant is so good, no harm lowering rental but will feel happy and rested. No point having one high rental yield but always give loads of problem. In the end lose out even more... :scared-5:

Yah... I just renewed my lease at same rate. Low maintenance and good payer. I get sms every month informing me rental paid to my account.

radha08

30-10-12, 22:38

ysyap

30-10-12, 22:40

Yah... I just renewed my lease at same rate. Low maintenance and good payer. I get sms every month informing me rental paid to my account.Yup... my last tenant did the same but usually late payment... Lol... Now I changed tactics, ask tenant to pay through giro... no more sms from them! :)

kane

30-10-12, 23:03

V important to like tenants so if tenant is so good, no harm lowering rental but will feel happy and rested. No point having one high rental yield but always give loads of problem. In the end lose out even more... :scared-5:

so far my tenant all super good. that's why my heart soft.

hyenergix

30-10-12, 23:41

do you think hdb rental policy will remain forever...i.e you can ret your hdb forever n ever:cool:

HDB is likely to consider changing only in 5-6 years' time when the bulk of the supplies reach the rental market. If the government tweaks the rental rule, it is likely to force the foreigners upgrade to condos or leave the country due to higher rental.

2010 - start of BTO boom
2013 - batch of BTO HDB hits the market for owners' occupancy
2018 - batch BTO HDB hits the rental market

So you will have at least 6 years of peace. Before this the HDB rental supply will be quite tight and there is no room for error for the government.

radha08

30-10-12, 23:43

[quote=hyenergix]HDB is likely to consider changing only in 5-6 years' time when the bulk of the supplies reach the rental market. If the government tweaks the rental rule, it is likely to force the foreigners upgrade to condos or leave the country due to higher rental.

2010 - start of BTO boom
2013 - batch of BTO HDB hits the market for owners' occupancy
2018 - batch BTO HDB hits the rental market

So you will have at least 6 years of peace.[/quote

:spliff2:...makes sense

Ringo33

31-10-12, 00:20

yup my unit always set the benchmark for my development and area. landlords should set high standard to boost the value of their developments!

when property prices and rental are rising, benchmark prices will always be broken. the only question, for how long?

kane

31-10-12, 00:25

HDB is likely to consider changing only in 5-6 years' time when the bulk of the supplies reach the rental market. If the government tweaks the rental rule, it is likely to force the foreigners upgrade to condos or leave the country due to higher rental.

2010 - start of BTO boom
2013 - batch of BTO HDB hits the market for owners' occupancy
2018 - batch BTO HDB hits the rental market

So you will have at least 6 years of peace. Before this the HDB rental supply will be quite tight and there is no room for error for the government.

i think we will have a global crisis to stir things up a bit before 2018. the impact will be felt from the demand side, rather than from the supply end.

hyenergix

31-10-12, 00:43

If the west suffers another crisis, it is very likely that more westerners will have to seek safe harbour in Asia.

ysyap

31-10-12, 07:25

so far my tenant all super good. that's why my heart soft.V fortunate to have super good tenants... :o

phantom_opera

31-10-12, 07:38

More transparency means no surprise quicker to rent out but no more high premium

cavaliver

31-10-12, 08:11

Bro, here to discuss strategies.

For discussion sake, if you can say share with me what is your asking rental and how many months you willing to sacrifice to get the the higher rental. Vs a quick rental say 1 week.

So higher rental : $ (input)
Take how many months to rent out :

Lower rental sure to get rental immediate : $(input)
Take immediate to rent out - say at most 1 week.

Please put in fictitious but realistic numbers to work it out. Then I can understand what kind of differential you are talking about.

This is just an exercise for me to understand where u coming from. The differential between the 2 rental months and the differential between the month to rent out is important. And lastly, I also need to understand are u priming to sell your unit at higher price based on yield.

Recently, I rented out my unit about $3500 in Sept because I wanted to renovate the new unit to my liking. But I know of neighbors who rented out in July for about $3000. Frankly speaking, during those 2 months there are times when I wondered if I am asking for too much & if I spent too much on renovation, etc.
When my next condo TOP in a few years, I may consider just providing the white goods & rent it out earlier at a lower rate as long as I have a good tenant. Just my humble opinion.
Sorry that I am not doing the Maths here because I am too lazy

buttercarp

31-10-12, 08:24

More transparency means no surprise quicker to rent out but no more high premium

If the unit is nicely done up, it can bring in higher rental.
As long as the tenant is aware of that and is willing to pay the premium after knowing the present market rate, i think he will feel better rather than he does not know the rate and then regret later thinking he did not get a good deal.

DC33_2008

31-10-12, 08:29

Not a bad idea as most of my tenants so far prefers to just provide white goods. They like to buy their own furniture and TV.
Recently, I rented out my unit about $3500 in Sept because I wanted to renovate the new unit to my liking. But I know of neighbors who rented out in July for about $3000. Frankly speaking, during those 2 months there are times when I wondered if I am asking for too much & if I spent too much on renovation, etc.
When my next condo TOP in a few years, I may consider just providing the white goods & rent it out earlier at a lower rate as long as I have a good tenant. Just my humble opinion.
Sorry that I am not doing the Maths here because I am too lazy

DC33_2008

31-10-12, 08:32

10,000 people lost their job at UBS. I am sure some will be coming to this part of the world. They may prefer our established Banks like DBS, UOB, and OCBC.
If the west suffers another crisis, it is very likely that more westerners will have to seek safe harbour in Asia.

kane

31-10-12, 08:32

True lah. Less discontentment between landlord and tenant that one party took advantage of the other be it higher than average or lower than average rental.

Lovelle

31-10-12, 08:38

yup my unit always set the benchmark for my development and area. landlords should set high standard to boost the value of their developments!

can pm me ur agent contact ?

auroraborealis

31-10-12, 10:59

Hmm... Just out of interest I do the sums;

Opportunity cost is 3000 x 2 mths = 6000k cos cld have rented out in jul @ 3k but waited 2 mths to rent out at 3500
Extra rent (3500-3000) x 12 mth contract = 6000k => no diff
Pay agent either 1500 or 1750 comm => lower comm for 3k rent
Overall => 3k rent slightly better (not to mention more $$$ spent on reno)

If extra rent (3500-3000) x 24 mth contract = 12k => better for 3.5k case
Pay agent either 3k or 3.5k comm => diff of 500 vs 6k more rental
Overall => 3.5k good deal

So conclusion depends on tenor too... N how much Reno budget

Recently, I rented out my unit about $3500 in Sept because I wanted to renovate the new unit to my liking. But I know of neighbors who rented out in July for about $3000. Frankly speaking, during those 2 months there are times when I wondered if I am asking for too much & if I spent too much on renovation, etc.
When my next condo TOP in a few years, I may consider just providing the white goods & rent it out earlier at a lower rate as long as I have a good tenant. Just my humble opinion.
Sorry that I am not doing the Maths here because I am too lazy

nav14

31-10-12, 11:17

Hmm... Just out of interest I do the sums;

Opportunity cost is 3000 x 2 mths = 6000k cos cld have rented out in jul @ 3k but waited 2 mths to rent out at 3500
Extra rent (3500-3000) x 12 mth contract = 6000k => no diff
Pay agent either 1500 or 1750 comm => lower comm for 3k rent
Overall => 3k rent slightly better (not to mention more $$$ spent on reno)

If extra rent (3500-3000) x 24 mth contract = 12k => better for 3.5k case
Pay agent either 3k or 3.5k comm => diff of 500 vs 6k more rental
Overall => 3.5k good deal

So conclusion depends on tenor too... N how much Reno budget

Renting immediately after reno will lose out on oppurtunity cost but subsequent leases you will make up with your unit being rented out faster with better reno and higher prices. So in the long run you will likely gain from the renovation.

price

31-10-12, 12:30

10,000 people lost their job at UBS. I am sure some will be coming to this part of the world. They may prefer our established Banks like DBS, UOB, and OCBC.

I thought on ST today it was written that only 10 or so employees are affected in SG

DC33_2008

31-10-12, 12:52

Most of them retrenched or to be retrenched are from London. These group of people will be looking for opportunity in Asia.
I thought on ST today it was written that only 10 or so employees are affected in SG

auroraborealis

31-10-12, 12:59

and they'll b renting from us if they eventually get a job here!!!

Most of them retrenched or to be retrenched are from London. These group of people will be looking for opportunity in Asia.

radha08

31-10-12, 23:06

and they'll b renting from us if they eventually get a job here!!!

then developer start building more and people start buying more and govt come out more cm...:D...:cheers5:

samuelk

01-11-12, 07:48

Most of them retrenched or to be retrenched are from London. These group of people will be looking for opportunity in Asia.
what better place then in SG. No natural deasater , well disipline workforce with
never say NO attitude even if the boss is wrong.

unlike HK or china where they are still raw and edgy

01-11-12, 10:02

Recently, I rented out my unit about $3500 in Sept because I wanted to renovate the new unit to my liking. But I know of neighbors who rented out in July for about $3000. Frankly speaking, during those 2 months there are times when I wondered if I am asking for too much & if I spent too much on renovation, etc.
When my next condo TOP in a few years, I may consider just providing the white goods & rent it out earlier at a lower rate as long as I have a good tenant. Just my humble opinion.
Sorry that I am not doing the Maths here because I am too lazy

When your condo is brand new, don't bother renovating. people will pay premium to rent a new unit anyway. Renovate after a few years... to differentiate yourself from your neighbors... tax deductable too...:2cents:

buttercarp

01-11-12, 11:29

When your condo is brand new, don't bother renovating. people will pay premium to rent a new unit anyway. Renovate after a few years... to differentiate yourself from your neighbors... tax deductable too...:2cents:

May I know what is tax deductable?
The reno?
I thought only for business premises then the reno is tax deductible?

price

01-11-12, 16:12

carbuncle

01-11-12, 16:14

May I know what is tax deductable?
The reno?
I thought only for business premises then the reno is tax deductible?

Oh oh... One more lim kopi kaki

DKSG

01-11-12, 18:23

Oh oh... One more lim kopi kaki

Sometimes you really must give it to the Singaporeans!

Spent hundreds of thousands and even millions buying properties that earn tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands each year.

All they want to do is to spend hours trying to manage the $1,000 additional tax. Why do such things ? Got earn let the government tax a bit la!

DKSG