View Full Version : CM 7 is out!
Hey Guys,
This time the CM is coming not from MAS but from MoM
Read this:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/personalised-employment/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx
and its discussion in expats forum:
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91377.html
This is surely going to impact housing prices as well as rentals, expats will leave this place in droves and then locals are going be left high and dry, be warned :D
they upped the bar for expats coming here?
they upped the bar for expats coming here?
Earlier people could get a 5 yr visa called PEP that is not tied to any employer with just 8k salary or even 4.5k salary(provided they stayed here for 2 years)
Now you need to earn 12k a month to get the PEP and that too has been reduced to 3 yr visa.
This will prompt many expats to consider going back since no stability.
we are screwing ourself.. .inflation will spike
we are screwing ourself.. .inflation will spike
Seriously! Have you guys noticed off late, if you walk past any groceries chain like fairprice, Giant or any Food and Beverages establishments, you will notice, "We are hiring" signs. There is huge shortage of labour out there, due to the foreign labour tightening. This will increase cost overall as well as reduce rental demand.
Sleepyhead
06-11-12, 23:03
ooh.. lots will be affected. I personally know a few... and those are already planning next steps
This will impact the HDB rental market especially. Reason being prior to this, such pass holders are earning not that fantastic salary, a salary that couldnt afford them to rent a $3000 1bedroom private condo up to $8000 3 bedroom condo. This original group of people (mostly from filipinos or indians) form the bulk of hdb rental market.
Seriously! Have you guys noticed off late, if you want past any groceries chain like fairprice, Giant or any Food and Beverages establishments, you will notice, "We are hiring" signs. There is huge shortage of labour out there, due to the foreign labour tightening. This will increase cost overall as well as reduce rental demand.
Bro, steady. Let's ask a simple question, who wanted less foreigners? Singaporeans right. We raised our voices and say foreigners are depressing our salary, we cannot compete. We say, they are stealing our jobs. I thot, that was wat I heard in the last election.
So, now the govt react and there will be an impact, right? Will the impact be great? So what is the impact?
No one clean the tables. Companies have difficulty hiring, so now need to hire locals. Locals will now want higher pay. This will translate to higher cost of goods. Inflation kick in. People will now want more pay. It's a vicious cycle.
But who wanted it?
So what next, says the govt. this part, I will leave it to you all to figure out. If u were the govt, what would u do when Singaporeans feel the impact and again start to complain?
so minimal impact, or if any, on private property rental.
Bro, this takes effect dec. when Singaporeans suffer, what do they do best? Complain to their MPs..... Then what happen?
Think step by step.... There is always a solution to any problem. U think Singapore can function without foreigners??? Think like the govt.
so minimal impact, or if any, on private property rental.
Actually the tightening is both at the low end as well as the high end jobs. The original post is about expats with salaries b/w 8k and 12k being impacted.
Another thing that will happen is lots of companies will go bust due to labour costs, affecting commercial property as well.
Many manufacturing companies will move up north and expats in these companies will be hit, as it is banks where most expats are working are not doing well.
So its a sorry picture for private property as well.
Bro, this takes effect dec. when Singaporeans suffer, what do they do best? Complain to their MPs..... Then what happen?
Think step by step.... There is always a solution to any problem. U think Singapore can function without foreigners??? Think like the govt.
The thing is no matter what the gahmen do, people wont be happy. Even though they know clearly that growth and GDP will be impacted if they cut foreign labour, they have to do it otherwise next elections they wont be there. Reduced growth is better than some novice bunch of coalition parties ruling and screwing up everything altogether.
The thing is no matter what the gahmen do, people wont be happy. Even though they know clearly that growth and GDP will be impacted if they cut foreign labour, they have to do it otherwise next elections they wont be there. Reduced growth is better than some novice bunch of coalition parties ruling and screwing up everything altogether.
Like I say Singaporean we just complain too much and are never realistic. Want everything dont want to give.
anyway pay the price guys.. thats what I told pple b4 the election. we are playing with fire.
Seriously! Have you guys noticed off late, if you walk past any groceries chain like fairprice, Giant or any Food and Beverages establishments, you will notice, "We are hiring" signs. There is huge shortage of labour out there, due to the foreign labour tightening. This will increase cost overall as well as reduce rental demand.
its not just F&B, in construction , in serivce industry, all same. shortage. the jobs are going to Malaysia. Why? coz cannot get EP here. and those companies who got the enjoy and realize malaysia is cheaper? they never will return to singapore.
Finally Mr B will come say "I told u so!"
:p :p :p
so minimal impact, or if any, on private property rental.
Those OCR MM campers.. and OCR 1600psf folks will be crying.... coz have to stay themselves! no tenants .
even can get will be poor yield.
5 years later citizens will complain to the government about structural unemployment. We are heading in the wrong direction. Government should still allow foreigners to come and work, but levy a higher personal income tax on them. This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens.
5 years later citizens will complain to the government about structural unemployment. We are heading in the wrong direction. Government should still allow foreigners to come and work, but levy a higher personal income tax on them. This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens.
what makes u think by then the foreigners want to come back? now the situation is right. US is down , Europe is down. Its easy to attract. 5yrs later u have to give them tax break to come. maybe even pay them to come.!
Sleepyhead
07-11-12, 00:06
what makes u think by then the foreigners want to come back? now the situation is right. US is down , Europe is down. Its easy to attract. 5yrs later u have to give them tax break to come. maybe even pay them to come.!
:scared-1: :scared-1: :scared-1:
Hey Guys,
This time the CM is coming not from MAS but from MoM
Read this:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/personalised-employment/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx
and its discussion in expats forum:
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91377.html
This is surely going to impact housing prices as well as rentals, expats will leave this place in droves and then locals are going be left high and dry, be warned :D
Do you know anyone (Singaporean) because of the so call expats was forced to resign from their work. The gov have finally realize some of these so call expats are good for nothing and causing lot of unhappiness among the Singaporean and if the don't do sometime than the unhappiness will sure result in more vote losses in the next election.
Do you know anyone (Singaporean) because of the so call expats was forced to resign from their work. The gov have finally realize some of these so call expats are good for nothing and causing lot of unhappiness among the Singaporean and if the don't do sometime than the unhappiness will sure result in more vote losses in the next election.
I know of singaporean not wanting to hiring older Singaporean. Coz they consider older singaporean not useful and fear that the more experience person will take his job. I call this short sightness.
Well when the MNC move to malaysia and the so call Singaporean no job. lets see who they got to blame.
Do you know anyone (Singaporean) because of the so call expats was forced to resign from their work. The gov have finally realize some of these so call expats are good for nothing and causing lot of unhappiness among the Singaporean and if the don't do sometime than the unhappiness will sure result in more vote losses in the next election.
Well the govement will still loose votes becoz of self induce high inflation and possible future structured unemployment.
PPle just need to open their eyes look outside the well.
Hey Guys,
This time the CM is coming not from MAS but from MoM
Read this:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/personalised-employment/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx
and its discussion in expats forum:
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91377.html
This is surely going to impact housing prices as well as rentals, expats will leave this place in droves and then locals are going be left high and dry, be warned :D
Huh.. what kinda CM is that?
There is a whole bunch for foreigners dying to get here .. just hoping to get out of their miserable country.. and govt to trying to slow down this bunch..
All it means is drive out the shitt from here and time to do a little clean up.
whole bunch of good for nothing foreigners here.. all it means is time for them to go home...
Singapore will still be there .. just better :spliff:
Losers will be HDB rental..gainer will be CBD condos with more 'elite' people wanna stay in singapore..
We don't need these type of expat in Singapore.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_singapore/view/1121887/1/.html
http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2012/08/an-expat-in-singapore-if-we-pulled-out-singapore-will-be-poor-and-lonely.html
http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/news/11Nov12/20121102.150857_expat.jpg
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121102-381083.html
We need more of these
http://static.plushasia.com/action/MediaImage/115209.jpg
http://www.mysinchew.com/files/preview/292x300..30065.jpg
Huh.. what kinda CM is that?
There is a whole bunch for foreigners dying to get here .. just hoping to get out of their miserable country.. and govt to trying to slow down this bunch..
All it means is drive out the shitt from here and time to do a little clean up.
whole bunch of good for nothing foreigners here.. all it means is time for them to go home...
Singapore will still be there .. just better :spliff:
Losers will be HDB rental..gainer will be CBD condos with more 'elite' people wanna stay in singapore..Precisely, of course some lower end condo might be affected, as some of these 'fake' expat do like to rent condo cos worth it as can bath at the pool toilet, many many to a unit (3 share a room).
this is interesting development. let's see how things pan out in the next 6 months to 1 year.
Well the govement will still loose votes becoz of self induce high inflation and possible future structured unemployment.
PPle just need to open their eyes look outside the well.
Have you ever apply a job to work oversea as an expat.
Have you ever apply a job to work oversea as an expat.
very tough to get something in europe, the company has to jump through many hoops to justify why you should be employed over someone from the EU.
Singapore job opening so big, all Tom, Dick and Harry also can apply.
Have you ever apply a job to work oversea as an expat.
Why do I need to do that? I already worked overseas and in the region for many years.
Singapore job opening so big, all Tom, Dick and Harry also can apply.
Really? apparently many jobs no Singaporean apply.
Why do I need to do that? I already worked overseas and in the region for many years.
So you are not a local.
So you are not a local.
I am a Singaporean. serve my NS and my work are in the region.
Dont be minopic.. :doh: :doh: :doh:
Surprise to know a Singaporean is so pro expat without finding out the cause of all the unhappiness.
We also don't need these type of Singaporean.
very tough to get something in europe, the company has to jump through many hoops to justify why you should be employed over someone from the EU.
Also thats why europe is in this shit now. the Union is way to strong for its own good.
Surprise to know a Singaporean is so pro expat without finding out the cause of all the unhappiness.
We also don't need these type of Singaporean.
Well we also dont need xenophobic and myopic singporean that will bring the country down to dumps out of pure short sightness.
"Pride comes before a fall"
unfortunately u wont understan since u never see outside before. u just have to learn the hard way.
I think ur unhappiness is fear of the unknown. open ur eyes. all tier 1 city are multi cultured and open.
Perhaps u so anti foreginers u would like to work in a SME? Coz apparently may singaporean see SME no up. And they cant hire enough people.
Or hey go start ur own business to realize u cannot get workers to run them properly ?
or u would like to see ur chicken rice become $10 a plate coz the same china clean pay has just increase becoz of in sufficent workers and u have to bare the cost?
ur idea of a true singaporean is very simple minded. Dont complain simply becoz to complain.
The day come ur MNC company wrap up and move to malaysia or indonesia or HK then don't Complain again!
I am more than happy to pay chicken rice for SGD 10 if I can find one in France.
I am more than happy to pay chicken rice for SGD 10 if I can find one in France.
Go then no 1 needs u here.
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
Inclusive growth
THE citizens of the world aspire to live in fair societies. One important aspect of fairness is the equitable distribution of income and wealth. This is the moral force behind the economic doctrine of inclusive growth.
In order to get a better sense of the wages earned in the five countries by the bottom 20-30 per cent of the working population, I have chosen the cleaner and the bus driver. The average monthly wages of the cleaner and bus driver in the five countries are as follows:
Singapore
Cleaner S$800 Bus driver S$1,800
Denmark
Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193
Finland
Cleaner S$2,085 Bus driver S$3,910
Norway
Cleaner S$5,470 Bus driver S$6,260
Sweden
Cleaner S$3,667 Bus driver S$4,480
Fourth, the argument that the only way to raise the wages of our low-wage workers is through productivity increase is not persuasive. I would like to know, for example, how the two women who clean my office can be more productive than they already are in order to deserve higher wages? I would like to know how the Singapore bus driver can be more productive so that his income will approximate those of his Nordic counterparts?
The truth is that we pay these workers such low wages not primarily because their productivity is inherently low, but largely because they are competing against an unlimited supply of cheap foreign workers. Because cheap workers are so plentiful, they tend to be employed unproductively. In the Nordic countries, unskilled workers are relatively scarce and thus deployed more productively, with higher skills, mechanisation, and better organisation.
http://singaporemind.blogspot.fr/2012/04/tharman-should-get-his-facts-straight.html
A good policy on immigration can create diversity, enhance competitiveness and improve the quality of life of your people. Simply opening the floodgates to get higher GDP growth is not a good policy...just look at what happened to ordinary Singaporeans and the growing divide caused by the PAP govt approach to immigration. The end result is overcrowding, rising income gap, and seething anger towards this govt policy.
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/10/20/the-govt-should-set-example-by-employing-sporeans-first/
There are many jobs in the govt, in the stats boards, in GLCs that need not go to foreigners. The Amy Cheong case will stand up like a sore thumb. So would the PR of SMRT. Are Sinkies that dull that these jobs must go to foreigners? The govt must adopt a Sinkie first policy when jobs are concerned. The civil service, the stats boards, the GLCs, must recruit Sinkies first. Only specialised jobs that no Sinkies can do or qualify to do should they go to foreigners. There is no reason why such jobs should go to foreigners in the first place. It is not the responsibility of the Govt to provide jobs for foreigners, even public housing. And foreigners should include PRs.
Highly qualified risk manager who earns $11K replaced by FT
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/10/12/highly-qualified-risk-manager-who-earns-11k-replaced-by-ft/
We have to remove a good man like him to tell the gov, we have enough.
http://www.asiaone.com/A1MEDIA/news/11Nov12/others/20121103.113242_georgeyeo.jpg
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1219914/1/.html
Illegal import of foreign labour, receiving kickbacks to be made criminal offences
From illegally employing foreign workers to using "phantom" local workers to secure higher quota for foreign workers, errant employers have found various ways to circumvent regulations set out in the work pass framework.
Don't tell me you don't know anything about receiving kickbacks from FT.
Really? apparently many jobs no Singaporean apply.
These are the job Singaporean don't apply.
Foreign worker told: “If we kill you, there won’t be any witness”
http://twc2.org.sg/2012/07/25/foreign-worker-told-if-we-kill-you-there-wont-be-any-witness/
http://twc2.org.sg/2012/08/02/employer-pleads-guilty-to-leaving-worker-to-die-by-roadside/
http://twc2.org.sg/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/taykokeng_chelladurai.jpg
Leaving them to die attracts a less severe punishment than to hire them illegally.
http://andrewlohhp.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/the-expendable-foreign-worker/
http://twc2.org.sg/2012/10/30/lured-by-promises-worker-hands-over-5000-to-employer/
Lured by promises, worker hands over $5,000 to employer
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
Inclusive growth
THE citizens of the world aspire to live in fair societies. One important aspect of fairness is the equitable distribution of income and wealth. This is the moral force behind the economic doctrine of inclusive growth.
In order to get a better sense of the wages earned in the five countries by the bottom 20-30 per cent of the working population, I have chosen the cleaner and the bus driver. The average monthly wages of the cleaner and bus driver in the five countries are as follows:
Singapore
Cleaner S$800 Bus driver S$1,800
Denmark
Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193
Finland
Cleaner S$2,085 Bus driver S$3,910
Norway
Cleaner S$5,470 Bus driver S$6,260
Sweden
Cleaner S$3,667 Bus driver S$4,480
Fourth, the argument that the only way to raise the wages of our low-wage workers is through productivity increase is not persuasive. I would like to know, for example, how the two women who clean my office can be more productive than they already are in order to deserve higher wages? I would like to know how the Singapore bus driver can be more productive so that his income will approximate those of his Nordic counterparts?
The truth is that we pay these workers such low wages not primarily because their productivity is inherently low, but largely because they are competing against an unlimited supply of cheap foreign workers. Because cheap workers are so plentiful, they tend to be employed unproductively. In the Nordic countries, unskilled workers are relatively scarce and thus deployed more productively, with higher skills, mechanisation, and better organisation.
Bro, agree you on this but for the wages that the Nordic countries earn in my opinion can't be compare to Singapore. They have natural resources and years of history. But what I do know is swenden has high unemployment rates too. Been there just this year and see for myself.
I feel that countries with natural resources mainly oil and minerals have always a advantage over countries like Singapore so I don't think it's a fair comparison.
Furthermore, the respect I see the locals gave to the cleaners, construction workers and lower end people is there. Hence cultural plays a part here too. We are Chinese and if I may more competitive in terms of life compare to them.
However having said that, people in north Asia have it worse than us, my partner just came back from Suzhou and noticed a lot of bosses ran away, leaving the workers realized that only few days later. I can't imagine living in north Asia with the competition around from china, Taiwan, Japan and south korea. The quality of life there in my personal experiences is really :scared-3:
Each to his own, we can all agree to disagree :cheers4:
Wa bro, well said.
As to the revision, the impact is minimal.... Please do not get worked up over it.
Bro, agree you on this but for the wages that the Nordic countries earn in my opinion can't be compare to Singapore. They have natural resources and years of history. But what I do know is swenden has high unemployment rates too. Been there just this year and see for myself.
I feel that countries with natural resources mainly oil and minerals have always a advantage over countries like Singapore so I don't think it's a fair comparison.
Furthermore, the respect I see the locals gave to the cleaners, construction workers and lower end people is there. Hence cultural plays a part here too. We are Chinese and if I may more competitive in terms of life compare to them.
However having said that, people in north Asia have it worse than us, my partner just came back from Suzhou and noticed a lot of bosses ran away, leaving the workers realized that only few days later. I can't imagine living in north Asia with the competition around from china, Taiwan, Japan and south korea. The quality of life there in my personal experiences is really :scared-3:
Each to his own, we can all agree to disagree :cheers4:
Wa bro, well said.
As to the revision, the impact is minimal.... Please do not get worked up over it.
Hahaha, just my 2cents worth, bro.
Well, the job market and employees is a dymanic one and constantly changing hence one must be adaptive. During crisis, employees wants stability. Once boom, they want work life balance. So its constantly changing.
Can't say it didn't give me problems like increase in levy. But if you wish to do biz in sin, that's how it goes.:scared-1: :scared-1:
That's why trying to be like you, building bullets first for property, learn forex and stocks on the side. :D
Bro, u have your own biz?
You know the work permit thingy really affected many coys. Many renewals were rejected. The govt is right to try to help locals but SMEs are the ones that get hurt. To me, this really is a conundrum for the govt.
Bring in foreigner also die, don't bring in also die.
They will still bring in but at a (trying to find the right word?) calculated/balanced way.
Bro, there are 2 ways to get freedom (could be more, but I subscribe to this 2). Save like crazy. But the better one is earn a lot then u can save a lot. I am quite a philosophical person, so do bear with me. Once u achieve freedom, spend!!! U deserve it.
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
Hahaha, just my 2cents worth, bro.
Well, the job market and employees is a dymanic one and constantly changing hence one must be adaptive. During crisis, employees wants stability. Once boom, they want work life balance. So its constantly changing.
Can't say it didn't give me problems like increase in levy. But if you wish to do biz in sin, that's how it goes.:scared-1: :scared-1:
That's why trying to be like you, building bullets first for property, learn forex and stocks on the side. :D
I understand that there are long queue of foreigners who want to come to Singapore to work but govt forced to tighten quota due to complaints against foreigners this & that etc. Since they only can let in a fixed number of foreigners & they have to be selective & choosy, obvious they will pick those high salary foreigners, since $8k pm salary is already top 90% earners in Singapore. $12k pm salary is top 5% earners? Those people can afford much better housing, most likely no HDB, much less likely OCR private in ulu locations. Probably benefit prime properties rental?
Actually the tightening is both at the low end as well as the high end jobs. The original post is about expats with salaries b/w 8k and 12k being impacted.
Another thing that will happen is lots of companies will go bust due to labour costs, affecting commercial property as well.
Many manufacturing companies will move up north and expats in these companies will be hit, as it is banks where most expats are working are not doing well.
So its a sorry picture for private property as well.
I understand that there are long queue of foreigners who want to come to Singapore to work but govt forced to tighten quota due to complaints against foreigners this & that etc. Since they only can let in a fixed number of foreigners & they have to be selective & choosy, obvious they will pick those high salary foreigners, since $8k pm salary is already top 90% earners in Singapore. $12k pm salary is top 5% earners? Those people can afford much better housing, most likely no HDB, much less likely OCR private in ulu locations. Probably benefit prime properties rental?
That is true provided the MNC dont move out of sgp due the difficulty getting staff here. Wat is a VP or SVP to do base in singapore where u can't hire all the support staff to work for him here?
what is the best way to encourage employers to employ locals vs foreigners?
I suggest levy a foreign workers levy just like for maids instead. A levy something like 50% of the foreigners salary, to be paid every month to govt by employers. Since employers say they employ foreigners because can't find locals to do the jobs & not because of pay isn't? Then govt can let them recruit any foreigners with no quota. After such levy we will know the truth :tongue3: :p
This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens. :D
5 years later citizens will complain to the government about structural unemployment. We are heading in the wrong direction. Government should still allow foreigners to come and work, but levy a higher personal income tax on them. This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens.
Bro, u have your own biz?
You know the work permit thingy really affected many coys. Many renewals were rejected. The govt is right to try to help locals but SMEs are the ones that get hurt. To me, this really is a conundrum for the govt.
Bring in foreigner also die, don't bring in also die.
They will still bring in but at a (trying to find the right word?) calculated/balanced way.
Bro, there are 2 ways to get freedom (could be more, but I subscribe to this 2). Save like crazy. But the better one is earn a lot then u can save a lot. I am quite a philosophical person, so do bear with me. Once u achieve freedom, spend!!! U deserve it.
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
Agreed, but seriously a lot of people out there think that this is a problem that 1st created by gov so they got to settle. Meaning why is there a need to make sin so dynamic?
From my thoughts, gov has taught us a little too well about calculation. Why that person get 1 dollar and I get 0.9? Everyone is not settling for 2nd best, majority of us think end of the day what we benefit. Culture issue, remember pragmatism? This word seems to be a bygone word from gov which was use aplenty in those days.
For freedom, think I got issue on that :scared-3: cos love travel too much, seeing friends that can't walk well but wants to travel. So think better 50-50, earn and travel at the same time :D. Hope future i will not :banghead:
Allthepies
07-11-12, 06:54
at the end of the day, the good goverment ultimate goal is to bring as many rice to the singaporean homes as possible.therefore keeping busineeses, jobs here is essential! when our competiveness is gone, its the end of us(most of us), the very top ones can still migrate. at tat stage, we will be begging Malaysia to take us in as another of their state. so short sighted citizens dont be so foolish to anyhow vote to distract and obstruct our government from doing the right thing.dont be foolish tat we can survive without foreign workers and hard work.as i said before, dont be green eye monster: making the successful poor doesnt make the poor rich!
Bro, steady. Let's ask a simple question, who wanted less foreigners? Singaporeans right. We raised our voices and say foreigners are depressing our salary, we cannot compete. We say, they are stealing our jobs. I thot, that was wat I heard in the last election.
So, now the govt react and there will be an impact, right? Will the impact be great? So what is the impact?
No one clean the tables. Companies have difficulty hiring, so now need to hire locals. Locals will now want higher pay. This will translate to higher cost of goods. Inflation kick in. People will now want more pay. It's a vicious cycle.
But who wanted it?
So what next, says the govt. this part, I will leave it to you all to figure out. If u were the govt, what would u do when Singaporeans feel the impact and again start to complain?
The govt basically wants to show people that the people were wrong in their perception of FTs and we should welcome them warmly. After a painful episode, the public will no longer complain and the govt can continue with its old policies of bringing in FTs in record numbers.
Wonder why they do not aggressively address housing costs as well since this was another major complaint during the elections. The CMs so far as too lame.
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
Inclusive growth
THE citizens of the world aspire to live in fair societies. One important aspect of fairness is the equitable distribution of income and wealth. This is the moral force behind the economic doctrine of inclusive growth.
In order to get a better sense of the wages earned in the five countries by the bottom 20-30 per cent of the working population, I have chosen the cleaner and the bus driver. The average monthly wages of the cleaner and bus driver in the five countries are as follows:
Singapore
Cleaner S$800 Bus driver S$1,800
Denmark
Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193
Finland
Cleaner S$2,085 Bus driver S$3,910
Norway
Cleaner S$5,470 Bus driver S$6,260
Sweden
Cleaner S$3,667 Bus driver S$4,480
Fourth, the argument that the only way to raise the wages of our low-wage workers is through productivity increase is not persuasive. I would like to know, for example, how the two women who clean my office can be more productive than they already are in order to deserve higher wages? I would like to know how the Singapore bus driver can be more productive so that his income will approximate those of his Nordic counterparts?
The truth is that we pay these workers such low wages not primarily because their productivity is inherently low, but largely because they are competing against an unlimited supply of cheap foreign workers. Because cheap workers are so plentiful, they tend to be employed unproductively. In the Nordic countries, unskilled workers are relatively scarce and thus deployed more productively, with higher skills, mechanisation, and better organisation.
Again its a myopic comparison .You never consider that impact of such system translating on higher tax and high overall cost? u quoted Europe. Their demographic consist of many small countries in europe found it hard to compete. They open up their borders with the forming of EU.?
Well simply put it is how much are the avg sgp want to pay more in terms of tax and service/product cost?
We have no resources. All we have is to sell services to the region. driving up our cost makes us not competitive.
Also what is so unfair if some of the less skill jobs are done by non Singaporean? They work here n then send the $ home. Once they work they years the go back. Not like there is a long Q of singaporean wanting to do low skills job. It has increasingly done by malaysian, Chinese and indians the last few decades. I rather have low cost jobs being done by foreigners and have the higher value jobs to singaporean.
With the decline birth rate a labour crunch will spell doom for ourselves.
Raising that cost actually snub enterprise and growth. translating to less opportunities for singaporean as job flows out to the region.
some business like manufacturing have left singapore and will never come back. lucky we have move successfully from that transition.
I see the over xenophobic and myopic group in the population not understanding the actual impact.
Well they have to learn. But I feel its a high price to pay just to learn something we know the outcome will be.
The govt basically wants to show people that the people were wrong in their perception of FTs and we should welcome them warmly. After a painful episode, the public will no longer complain and the govt can continue with its old policies of bringing in FTs in record numbers.
Wonder why they do not aggressively address housing costs as well since this was another major complaint during the elections. The CMs so far as too lame.
hah hah u are wrong. We luv to complain. either way the people will never be happy.
hah hah u are wrong. We luv to complain. either way the people will never be happy.
Right. It depends which side of the fence you are at, not just only talking about having money. If the gov sing the similar tune, those who are on the side will hum along.
If not, one can emulate someone like brave Nicole Seah in the last election.:cheers6: Be different, be an solid alternative (at least in perception). :cheers4:
Right. It depends which side of the fence you are at, not just only talking about having money. If the gov sing the similar tune, those who are on the side will hum along.
If not, one can emulate someone like brave Nicole Seah in the last election.:cheers6: Be different, be an solid alternative (at least in perception). :cheers4:
Well don't get me wrong. I welcome change but in a constructive and logical manner that benefit the pple. Not things that are short sighted and stir up emotions and demerit to progression in the long run.
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
Inclusive growth
THE citizens of the world aspire to live in fair societies. One important aspect of fairness is the equitable distribution of income and wealth. This is the moral force behind the economic doctrine of inclusive growth.
In order to get a better sense of the wages earned in the five countries by the bottom 20-30 per cent of the working population, I have chosen the cleaner and the bus driver. The average monthly wages of the cleaner and bus driver in the five countries are as follows:
Singapore
Cleaner S$800 Bus driver S$1,800
Denmark
Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193
Finland
Cleaner S$2,085 Bus driver S$3,910
Norway
Cleaner S$5,470 Bus driver S$6,260
Sweden
Cleaner S$3,667 Bus driver S$4,480
Fourth, the argument that the only way to raise the wages of our low-wage workers is through productivity increase is not persuasive. I would like to know, for example, how the two women who clean my office can be more productive than they already are in order to deserve higher wages? I would like to know how the Singapore bus driver can be more productive so that his income will approximate those of his Nordic counterparts?
The truth is that we pay these workers such low wages not primarily because their productivity is inherently low, but largely because they are competing against an unlimited supply of cheap foreign workers. Because cheap workers are so plentiful, they tend to be employed unproductively. In the Nordic countries, unskilled workers are relatively scarce and thus deployed more productively, with higher skills, mechanisation, and better organisation.
You dont have to quote those crappy websites, here. Already too much of crazy mindless anti foreigner crap there, that is not needed here.
This forum is about property investment and this thread about impact of foreign labour tightening on property prices.
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
Inclusive growth
THE citizens of the world aspire to live in fair societies. One important aspect of fairness is the equitable distribution of income and wealth. This is the moral force behind the economic doctrine of inclusive growth.
In order to get a better sense of the wages earned in the five countries by the bottom 20-30 per cent of the working population, I have chosen the cleaner and the bus driver. The average monthly wages of the cleaner and bus driver in the five countries are as follows:
Singapore
Cleaner S$800 Bus driver S$1,800
Denmark
Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193
Finland
Cleaner S$2,085 Bus driver S$3,910
Norway
Cleaner S$5,470 Bus driver S$6,260
Sweden
Cleaner S$3,667 Bus driver S$4,480
Fourth, the argument that the only way to raise the wages of our low-wage workers is through productivity increase is not persuasive. I would like to know, for example, how the two women who clean my office can be more productive than they already are in order to deserve higher wages? I would like to know how the Singapore bus driver can be more productive so that his income will approximate those of his Nordic counterparts?
The truth is that we pay these workers such low wages not primarily because their productivity is inherently low, but largely because they are competing against an unlimited supply of cheap foreign workers. Because cheap workers are so plentiful, they tend to be employed unproductively. In the Nordic countries, unskilled workers are relatively scarce and thus deployed more productively, with higher skills, mechanisation, and better organisation.
One question how do u mechanisze cleaning office ? ( u want to suggest like army we have toilet IC in office that come 30min eariler a week to clean their department toilet?)
How u mechanize brick laying? hacking? laying of tiles?
How u mechanize the bus drivers ?
How u mechanize ur baby sitter? ur home maid ?
u like the idea of everything self service? interesting people complain abt it but when it come to having to "DIY" all cannot do it.
Mechanizing comes with a cost. who pay?
Surprise to know a Singaporean is so pro expat without finding out the cause of all the unhappiness.
We also don't need these type of Singaporean.
Haha, you sound like George Bush. "Either you are with us of you are with the terrorists" :banghead:
what is the best way to encourage employers to employ locals vs foreigners?
I suggest levy a foreign workers levy just like for maids instead. A levy something like 50% of the foreigners salary, to be paid every month to govt by employers. Since employers say they employ foreigners because can't find locals to do the jobs & not because of pay isn't? Then govt can let them recruit any foreigners with no quota. After such levy we will know the truth :tongue3: :p
This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens. :D
Doing that wont help singaporean. the min Singapore quota should stay. Coz if not many biz will also take the easy way out pass on the cost to consumers eventually Singaporean will have to pay for it too in terms of cost.
perhaps a modified system.. some tax break if hire more singaporean. and a tiered levy. can hire more FT but the levy increase as the no. of FT increase beyond a baseline ratio.
This will discourage over expansion and yet allow business to increase work force if biz really need it for the time frame.
Haha, you sound like George Bush. "Either you are with us of you are with the terrorists" :banghead:
he sound like george bush sitting in the class room dazed...
http://bootnewt.envy.nu/readmypetgoat.jpg
Earlier people could get a 5 yr visa called PEP that is not tied to any employer with just 8k salary or even 4.5k salary(provided they stayed here for 2 years)
Now you need to earn 12k a month to get the PEP and that too has been reduced to 3 yr visa.
This will prompt many expats to consider going back since no stability.
USA and europe are screwed.. you think they will go back home? :o
phantom_opera
07-11-12, 08:20
yawn ... how can premium EP annual salary only 34k, really a joke, the new 144k is more like it
yawn ... how can premium EP annual salary only 34k, really a joke, the new 144k is more like it
exactly. this is only $2800 per month. no wonder everyone screaming that PMET jobs are going to everyone except singaporeans.
yawn ... how can premium EP annual salary only 34k, really a joke, the new 144k is more like it
precisely....
You dont have to quote those crappy websites, here. Already too much of crazy mindless anti foreigner crap there, that is not needed here.
This forum is about property investment and this thread about impact of foreign labour tightening on property prices.
i recall u are a foreigner, right?
as mentioned, this "CM7" is only for the premium EP. the rest of the categories are still in place.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/s-pass/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx
life goes on lah. dun worry. there is a general tightening, but this PEP only affects a certain segment of the foreigners.
The tightening of the labour market will not decrease the housing demand, why:
1. Less singaporeans migrating overseas.
2. Less foreign workers means less money sent out overseas, more domestic liquidity.
3. Increase the quality of FT pool, because we can afford to be more selective
4. Less fluctuation, supply will be matched with demand with more precision.
i recall u are a foreigner, right?
u Xenophobic?
The tightening of the labour market will not decrease the housing demand, why:
1. Less singaporeans migrating overseas.
2. Less foreign workers means less money sent out overseas, more domestic liquidity.
3. Increase the quality of FT pool, because we can afford to be more selective
4. Less fluctuation, supply will be matched with demand with more precision.
HAH HAH so simple? Singaporean want to migrate got nothing to do with this. they go anyway.
less FW means more domestic liquidity? wats the logic?
agree with 3. FT quality. but over do it the MNC wont come. the Quality FT wont to. coz no 1 report to them!
4.? i think over supply with no 1 to rent to later.. CRASH tats wat all the complaints want. good deals coz the miss the boat.!
pls dont turn this into Temasek Review Emeritus
I do agree from interacting with all social levels that Singaporeans in general can be a rather spoilt lot.
Work cant find those need to stand too long.
hours cannot be too long.
shift work frowned upon.
pay must allow them to afford occasional luxury good and holiday.
work life balance we cry a lot about but during office hours we still whatsapp a lot
Hey Guys,
This time the CM is coming not from MAS but from MoM
Read this:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/personalised-employment/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx
and its discussion in expats forum:
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91377.html
This is surely going to impact housing prices as well as rentals, expats will leave this place in droves and then locals are going be left high and dry, be warned :D
That is not CM..
Gov seeing higher end market sales slow as compare to hot mass market.. so decided to bring in more higher end expats to push up the demand of the higher end pty market :D
The tightening of the labour market will not decrease the housing demand, why:
1. Less singaporeans migrating overseas.
2. Less foreign workers means less money sent out overseas, more domestic liquidity.
3. Increase the quality of FT pool, because we can afford to be more selective
4. Less fluctuation, supply will be matched with demand with more precision.
1. Err, but do the numbers really sum up? Say if they bring 100,000 foreigners less does it mean 100,000 locals will stay back? Also locals usually stay with parents, foreigners rent places and hence create demand, which locals dont do.
2. Well, it could also mean locals will spend it off and hence higher inflation
3. This part I completely disagree. See, if you think current FT is low quality, you think they can be replaced with higher quality? Higher quality FT will ask for high price and companies cant afford.
4. Supply will overstrip demand.
USA and europe are screwed.. you think they will go back home? :o
I think those are drawing way more then 12 k so nothing has change.
even if they are required, the most is squeeze the bottom rank n pay the top more. That how it has always been. Plus the fact that nowadays, most hiring are base more from people who knows one another, it gives the boss a better reason to pay them more.
From greythorn
Welcome to the Greythorn 2012/2013 Asia Market Report and Salary Guide.
2012 has proven to be a tough year for IT recruitment globally, and Asia has not escaped the knock on effect of the turmoil in Europe this year. Although faring better than other parts of the world, businesses in Asia remain cautious in this ambiguous environment, reluctant to add further headcount and in certain cases,
downsizing it.
Many employers across banking and finance appear to be focusing their attention on engaging and retaining existing staff, offering opportunities for internal mobility and increased responsibilities to star performers. As hiring managers choose internal candidates over external hires, the job market becomes even more competitive for jobseekers. This is more noticeable at the top of the market: Historically the candidate churn was always at the bottom of the market, but 2012 has shown this reverse with a great deal of
restructuring within financial services and off-shoring of jobs resulting in VP, Director and MD level candidates being retrenched and actively looking for their next role.
Strong economic growth in 2010 allowed a buoyant recruitment market particularly in the banking sector, which saw Singapore open its doors to a large number of expat white-collar mid to senior level managers, who took up posts in banks and professional services companies. We now see a large number of retrenchments within the same candidate cohort, with employers seeking to re-employ middle
managers on agency or direct payrolled contracts. In that sense, IT recruitment leads the way in new forms of staffing relationships, with the most popular method being hiring on a 6 -12 month contract basis.
In the vendor and telecommunication space, there has been high demand for account management, pre and post sales skills. Hunters and deal pursuit skills are also demanded by clients looking to create opportunity in the region. In the outsourcing and professional services space, demand for candidates with both delivery skills and sales ability is prevalent as clients look to get more skill and potential from candidates for the money they have to spend – in some cases amalgamating 2 job profiles into 1.
Against this changing job market, uncertainty and a decrease in job opportunities, candidates’ appetite for job switching remains unabated, with many respondents stating they are passively or actively on the look-out for a new role.
Similarly, candidates reportedly seem unconcerned about the perceived loss of jobs due to outsourcing/off-shoring of roles. However, in what may be a sign of frustration, candidate job satisfaction has decreased from last year. In particular, Singapore employers seem to disappoint employees with around a third of
respondents believing their organisation could do more to offer constructive management and supportive leadership.
It seems as though technology candidates in Singapore look for new job opportunities as part of their everyday life, a task that is as regular and normal as online shopping: Tough economic conditions are just a
backdrop.
Tristan Amin
Director
1. Err, but do the numbers really sum up? Say if they bring 100,000 foreigners less does it mean 100,000 locals will stay back? Also locals usually stay with parents, foreigners rent places and hence create demand, which locals dont do.
2. Well, it could also mean locals will spend it off and hence higher inflation
3. This part I completely disagree. See, if you think current FT is low quality, you think they can be replaced with higher quality? Higher quality FT will ask for high price and companies cant afford.
4. Supply will overstrip demand.
We are running full employment.... Imagine if sg is a really big hotel and one day the manager of the hotel decide that long term paying guess will take priority over short term guess. Will it bring down the room rates?
We are running full employment.... Imagine if sg is a really big hotel and one day the manager of the hotel decide that long term paying guess will take priority over short term guess. Will it bring down the room rates?
The thing is most job creation sectors here are by MNC companies Banking, manufacturing etc and the secondary jobs called indirect employment like retail and F&B.
Banking jobs are mostly back office jobs that dont require the jobs to be here in Singapore, the clients that they support are US and EU, so the jobs dont necessarily need to be here, they could go to any low cost country.
Now MNCs decided to setup shop in Singapore, inspite of low population because the fore fathers of this country promised them that cheap foreigner labour will be available in abundance. Now there is a slow rollback happening on this.
As you rightly said, Singaporean employment rate is already close to 100%, so now what happens, if companies cannot bring in staff at low cost?The jobs move to other low cost locations where labour is in abundance. So whom does this benefit? Those low cost countries from which the FT come from.
Once MNC jobs are gone, the indirect jobs in retail and f&b are also automatically affected.
there are 12k of PEP in Sg now. That is a small no. won't affect much.
Curious, while PEP - min $2800
then how much is EP min salary ?
Well we also dont need xenophobic and myopic singporean that will bring the country down to dumps out of pure short sightness.
"Pride comes before a fall"
unfortunately u wont understan since u never see outside before. u just have to learn the hard way.
I think ur unhappiness is fear of the unknown. open ur eyes. all tier 1 city are multi cultured and open.
Perhaps u so anti foreginers u would like to work in a SME? Coz apparently may singaporean see SME no up. And they cant hire enough people.
Or hey go start ur own business to realize u cannot get workers to run them properly ?
or u would like to see ur chicken rice become $10 a plate coz the same china clean pay has just increase becoz of in sufficent workers and u have to bare the cost?
ur idea of a true singaporean is very simple minded. Dont complain simply becoz to complain.
Stop ranting that limiting foreigners will cause inflation. Your argument is flawed. In fact I think the inflation (esp rental, housing and car, i.e. the big ticket items) will not be as high as before. And with lesser people to fight over limited resources such as daily necessities and food, prices of commodities may not rise as fast too.
I feel that this policy is enforced as a trial to see if it works, and no policy is deemed to be permanent by our govt. I agree with the other poster that we are here to do a little house cleaning to get rid of unwanted people here, and current infrastructure cannot accommodate any more people.
Rest assures that Sg will still get to 6m population, as this is the true intention of our PM. The only difference this time is that we are getting less dependencies (elderly parents), less coffee shop cleaners, foreign hawkers, prostitutes, shoddy students as PRs. Construction workers will still be given limited time permit, as HDB cannot do away without them.
We are running full employment.... Imagine if sg is a really big hotel and one day the manager of the hotel decide that long term paying guess will take priority over short term guess. Will it bring down the room rates?
ur argument didnt take into consideration that having long term guest means steady income for hotel mgmt. They can expand and buy additional land to build another hotel.
With better revenue the mgmt can ensure the employment of the staff, create more position for existing staff to be promoted and also diverse the business of the hotel.
verses a hotel that is running at 40% occupancy hotel mgmt might decide to sell some floors away to shopping mall and down size the staff.
u Xenophobic?
u anti-sporean?
Read this article in asiaone :)
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121105-381524.html
The day was over a long time ago ever since we help the Chinese built the 中国—新加坡苏州工业园区.
http://sghardtruth.com/2012/05/19/what-singapore-can-learn-from-europe-by-tommy-koh/
after speaking to many people, i have discovered one thing..
It's hard to convince someone of their inclination if they have been well-treated by it.
So, this type of debate is like female and male debate (battle of the sexes,,which gender is better).. It will never end and it's emotive and people take sides based on expreiences and emotions.
So, the only way you can hope for change is thru' your vote.
That said, I do think the ruling party have been gradually opening up and listening more to ground feedback and improving. Maybe it has to do with the "removal" of those oldies in there.. Some really cannot make it. (But of course, all of them better than me. .. at least they can climb that far :)).
what is the best way to encourage employers to employ locals vs foreigners?
I suggest levy a foreign workers levy just like for maids instead. A levy something like 50% of the foreigners salary, to be paid every month to govt by employers. Since employers say they employ foreigners because can't find locals to do the jobs & not because of pay isn't? Then govt can let them recruit any foreigners with no quota. After such levy we will know the truth :tongue3: :p
This levy collected can go into benefits for the citizens. :D
That's a good idea ! ":)
The levy should go towards a monthly unemployment benefits for Unemployed locals like me! :)
That way, you take away my job.. but i get paid a loss of job allowance.. not bad for me :) I VOTE PAP! :)..hehe..
we are screwing ourself.. .inflation will spike
really? Haven't we been screwing ourselves with housing prices on a tear for the last 6 years, inflation hasn't spiked?
our inflation is largely local (ie: self inflicted). Imported inflation has been kept at bay by keeping sgd strong.
really? Haven't we been screwing ourselves with housing prices on a tear for the last 6 years, inflation hasn't spiked?
our inflation is largely local (ie: self inflicted). Imported inflation has been kept at bay by keeping sgd strong.
Some people still don't understand, the old economic model of inflation and recession is "out of date". Inflation now fough with stronger currency, recession fough with printing money. Welcome to the brave new world.
really? Haven't we been screwing ourselves with housing prices on a tear for the last 6 years, inflation hasn't spiked?
our inflation is largely local (ie: self inflicted). Imported inflation has been kept at bay by keeping sgd strong.
Oh really? Everything is influx problem? It's the global printing press at work. Largely china n us. Go look at Malaysia the property price have inflated since 6 yrs back. Vietnam inflation is double digit , Korea ? Indonesia ? All inflated .
As long u don't touch private condo n cars the last few yrs things are still manageable .
If we increase basic service cost n that creep into our basic Cost that will be direct impact to people lives. Given 80% still stay hdb n hdb priced at 300k from goverment it's still very affordable .
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/stricter-criteria-personalised-work-pass-foreign-professionals-2012110
News of the changes shocked the IT manager of a chemical and pharmaceutical firm. "For those who still hold the pass, you cannot simply change the rules like that," he said. The Pakistani national received his PEP in February, after three years here. It is set to expire in 2017. But his $6,000-plus salary is far from the new cut-off, and he does not expect it to double by the end of 2014. "It's impossible," he said.
:D 6k pay going to Singaporean ? :cheers4:
ok lah, i know he will still stay back as regular EP holder.
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/stricter-criteria-personalised-work-pass-foreign-professionals-2012110
News of the changes shocked the IT manager of a chemical and pharmaceutical firm. "For those who still hold the pass, you cannot simply change the rules like that," he said. The Pakistani national received his PEP in February, after three years here. It is set to expire in 2017. But his $6,000-plus salary is far from the new cut-off, and he does not expect it to double by the end of 2014. "It's impossible," he said.
:D 6k pay going to Singaporean ? :cheers4:
ok lah, i know he will still stay back as regular EP holder.
Or he apply to be a citizen and queue for a BTO
This just means that many PEP holders will apply for PR before the deadline.
Allthepies
07-11-12, 18:36
Right. It depends which side of the fence you are at, not just only talking about having money. If the gov sing the similar tune, those who are on the side will hum along.
If not, one can emulate someone like brave Nicole Seah in the last election.:cheers6: Be different, be an solid alternative (at least in perception). :cheers4:
Nicole the pretender, probably all her stories are cooked up. TCS can sign her up.
Why he complain so much. He can still apply for EP. If he doesn't find another employer then don't move lor.
Actually would this change have a major effect on the number of foreigners in Singapore?
For those who no longer qualify for PEP, they can apply for P1 passes but would be tied to the company that applied for them, increasing the inconvenience. And they have to send their Parent-in-laws home.
Would this inconvenience be a big deterrence for these foreigner talents?
Maybe next step is to increase the min monthly salary before they can bring their family over?
This just means that many PEP holders will apply for PR before the deadline.
Bro, u in HR?
We can afford to lose a few of these foreign workers drawing the couple of thousands a month and attract those talents that are making much more and those who are real rainmakers that can create more economic ecosystems.
They are welcome to take up PRship and contribute more to the system if they wish to roam here freely between jobs.
We can afford to lose a few of these foreign workers drawing the couple of thousands a month and attract those talents that are making much more and those who are real rainmakers that can create more economic ecosystems.
They are welcome to take up PRship and contribute more to the system if they wish to roam here freely between jobs.
The intention appears more to send a clear signal to certain groups of foreigners that it is time for them to decide to be rooted to SG. It should not be for them to see SG just as a stepping stone or place to come and enjoy privileges, and go as they like.
Might have an impact on rental demand, but the policies made usually consider many factors together. Maybe we can expect the numbers of new citizens to spike up or some other EPs to be adjusted.
Ultimately, I still think it betters Singapore. If some of these jobs are channelled back to Singaporeans, then it continues to prop some of the rental and property demand. The task would then be to train and retrain some of the local professionals to ensure a good job fit.
12k is a small number in the bigger scheme of things. When we are targeting the right talented crowd to take the population to 6mio. To borrow the words of our leader, in the face of challenges, are they a stayer or a quitter?
12k is a small number in the bigger scheme of things. When we are targeting the right talented crowd to take the population to 6mio. To borrow the words of our leader, in the face of challenges, are they a stayer or a quitter?There are at least 2 jobs which locals will not do in Singapore unless a major mindset shift, i.e. construction workers (not foreman) and full time domestic help, both commanding pay less than $12k/mth. How? :rolleyes:
Oh really? Everything is influx problem? It's the global printing press at work. Largely china n us. Go look at Malaysia the property price have inflated since 6 yrs back. Vietnam inflation is double digit , Korea ? Indonesia ? All inflated .
As long u don't touch private condo n cars the last few yrs things are still manageable .
If we increase basic service cost n that creep into our basic Cost that will be direct impact to people lives. Given 80% still stay hdb n hdb priced at 300k from goverment it's still very affordable .
You need to read properly, I said our inflation is largely self inflicted bec imported inflation is largely kept at bay via a strong SGD.
Rental/ transport/ wages have a bigger influence on the inflation levels but out of the 3, rental and transport have rising more steeply.
And suddenly if wages go up, it's an inflationary issue but what abt rental and transport?
PS: VN pricing is still significantly lower than pre Lehman days.
There are at least 2 jobs which locals will not do in Singapore unless a major mindset shift, i.e. construction workers (not foreman) and full time domestic help, both commanding pay less than $12k/mth. How? :rolleyes:
the 12k i was referring to is the number of PEP. not the salary cutoff.
that segment of labour won't be affected by this PEP ruling.
Sleepyhead
07-11-12, 23:17
This just means that many PEP holders will apply for PR before the deadline.
So the govt in effect forcing the middle income FT to apply for PR... And let the higher income group come and go as they please? :confused:
the 12k i was referring to is the number of PEP. not the salary cutoff.
that segment of labour won't be affected by this PEP ruling.oic... thx for clarifying!
So the govt in effect forcing the middle income FT to apply for PR... And let the higher income group come and go as they please? :confused:
Super high salary people can find work anywhere. They have so many choices, attracting them to come is already good enough. Middle income group, there may be too many earning here and remitting back home. It's high time they chose to commit.
There are at least 2 jobs which locals will not do in Singapore unless a major mindset shift, i.e. construction workers (not foreman) and full time domestic help, both commanding pay less than $12k/mth. How? :rolleyes:
U are discribling labour not talent. Do not group maids n cleaners as talent as that will confuse the issue. It's like cars n trains same but different
buttercarp
08-11-12, 07:36
Super high salary people can find work anywhere. They have so many choices, attracting them to come is already good enough. Middle income group, there may be too many earning here and remitting back home. It's high time they chose to commit.
So it will be good that the policy attracts the high flyers and the blue collared workers only.
However if the middle group is excluded, then where to find tenants for HDB?
LOL... maybe then they revert back to old ruling and say HDB cannot let out?
how can this policy shift be a CM?! there are other type of employment passes for one to apply to......
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
how can this policy shift be a CM?! there are other type of employment passes for one to apply to......
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Listen to the man !!!! Well said.... I was wondering how this thread can spiral so big????
:cheers6::cheers6::cheers6:
So it will be good that the policy attracts the high flyers and the blue collared workers only.
However if the middle group is excluded, then where to find tenants for HDB?
LOL... maybe then they revert back to old ruling and say HDB cannot let out?
I think you have hit the nail. This change is paving way for more policy changes in housing.
I think you have hit the nail. This change is paving way for more policy changes in housing.
these guys in the mid-band can still apply for other type of employment permits.......
I have reread the policy change and conclude that there is very little impact even if this new rule is enforced. The new rule states that for S pass holder, he has to earn at least 4k to have his spouse and children here. This does not mean that he has to earn 4k to get a S pass approval. In fact, he can still earn <2k and potentially get approved for employment permit, just that he cannot bring any dependents in.
buttercarp
08-11-12, 10:54
I have reread the policy change and conclude that there is very little impact even if this new rule is enforced. The new rule states that for S pass holder, he has to earn at least 4k to have his spouse and children here. This does not mean that he has to earn 4k to get a S pass approval. In fact, he can still earn <2k and potentially get approved for employment permit, just that he cannot bring any dependents in.
If everyone in this category does not qualify to bring in their families, then there will be fewer of them in Singapore, so it will be quite signifcant.
If everyone in this category does not qualify to bring in their families, then there will be fewer of them in Singapore, so it will be quite signifcant.
aiyah, no impact one lah. Most affected FT are from ASEAN. Just fly back to home county once a month on a weekend lor. Then one month visa renewed.
If everyone in this category does not qualify to bring in their families, then there will be fewer of them in Singapore, so it will be quite signifcant.
12k families in question but only a portion is below $12k. Say 10k units affected lah. The impact will not be felt in the rental market in my opinion. It just means they rent smaller unit lor.
phantom_opera
08-11-12, 12:28
Garmen is boosting appeals of MMs and hdb rental all the time
Secretariat
08-11-12, 12:36
For those interested, a post-Election article from JP Morgan.
I post this article for the interesting chart where Singapore is mentioned: Section D.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/366639/11-07-2012%20-%20EOTM%20-%20Post-election%20thoughts.pdf
For those interested, a post-Election article from JP Morgan.
I post this article for the interesting chart where Singapore is mentioned: Section D.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/366639/11-07-2012%20-%20EOTM%20-%20Post-election%20thoughts.pdf
hehehe, republicans would love Spore govt.
SINGAPORE: Acting Manpower Minister Tan Chuan-Jin expects more Employment Pass (EP) holders to be downgraded to hold an S Pass.
In a written parliamentary reply on Monday, Mr Tan said this is because all EP renewals after July this year will be subjected to the tighter EP framework introduced in January.
He pointed out there has been an impact of the EP tightening measures.
The number of S Pass workers has grown by 14,200 in the first half of this year, as the number of EPs fell.
7,800 of these S Pass holders would have qualified for EP if not for the stricter criteria.
Among this group of "downgraders", 4,000 were new applicants who could have qualified for an EP under the pre-January 2012 framework, but were issued S Passes instead.
In addition, 3,800 were existing EP holders who had to "downgrade" to an S Pass, as they did not meet the stricter EP criteria upon renewal.
Mr Tan explained that the shifting of lower-end EP holders to S Pass is an intended outcome of the tighter EP framework.
At the same time, he said the underlying demand for S Passes remains robust.
In particular, S Pass growth in the construction sector has been strong due to various ongoing building and public infrastructure projects.
Mr Tan said his ministry is continuing to monitor the numbers closely as not all S Pass tightening measures have taken effect.
The S Pass Dependency Ratio Ceiling was only reduced from July 2012, and employers are allowed to keep existing workers till July 2014.
The S Pass levy is also scheduled to increase till July 2013.
- CNA/fa
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