View Full Version : More Cooling Measures
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
2) Seller stamp duties for commercial property
For developers
1) DC for PES and Roof Terrace
Is this a probability or already announced?
Allthepies
09-01-13, 07:44
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
2) Seller stamp duties for commercial property
For developers
1) DC for PES and Roof Terrace
or is this going to be announced soon?
Quite a fair one. But the last one will result in price increase.
Current cases of hdb and pte property owners will ultimately revert to owning either one when hdb is due for SERS.
buttercarp
09-01-13, 08:33
Is this a probability or already announced?
TS is just proposing.
If it were announced, it would be in the headlines and breaking news and this whole place would be flooded with discussion.
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 08:35
u cannot force HDB upgraders to sell HDB when buying new ... you can only force to sell 6m after TOP ... make sense??
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
this will create an extremely unhealthy market where the only HDB sellers in the market are those moving into new PCs ... COV will be 200k?? :scared-5:
u cannot force HDB upgraders to sell HDB when buying new ... you can only force to sell 6m after TOP ... make sense??
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
this will create an extremely unhealthy market where the only HDB sellers in the market are those moving into new PCs ... COV will be 200k?? :scared-5:
And HDB rentals will shoot up.
[QUOTE=phantom_opera]
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
QUOTE]
If they kenna SERS, they are not allowed to apply new HDB unless they sell PC.
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 08:44
If they kenna SERS, they are not allowed to apply new HDB unless they sell PC.
How frequent is SERS?? I can tell u if Temasek / GIC return is 4%pa for next 20y, no more SERS :scared-2:
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
2) Seller stamp duties for commercial property
For developers
1) DC for PES and Roof Terrace
*like* as this is likely to work in my interest.
buttercarp
09-01-13, 08:48
And HDB rentals will shoot up.
Better still.... very few HDB for rental, so PC rental shoot up as well!
Extrapolate further - the prices of houses with old lease will increase as employers may buy these to house workers.......
u
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
cant hold forever, tats the beauty of SERS and LH. :banghead:
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 08:53
i heard MOM is rejecting lots of EP renewals ... that is the secret CM .... very soon you will see EP # down 10-20%
Better still.... very few HDB for rental, so PC rental shoot up as well!
Extrapolate further - the prices of houses with old lease will increase as employers may buy these to house workers.......
Yes, all huat!
This CM may not have the results desired by govt. It is politically sensitive as joint ownership of HDB/private enables many young citizens to upgrade comfortably. It will not be a popular move to disallow this. If they anyhow knee-jerk reaction and apply CM to this based on a few articles in the press and a few (possibly envious) people complaining about joint HDB/private ownership, my respect for MIW will go down.
my take is simple - apart from ramping up flat supply, stop pegging new BTOs to resale prices in the same vicinity.
i heard MOM is rejecting lots of EP renewals ... that is the secret CM .... very soon you will see EP # down 10-20%
This may only be until the tsunami wave of TOP HDBs and PCs hits us in some years time. And new transport infrastructure is put in place.
The service industry is very short of workers. I see restaurants only opening to half of their capacity due to staff shortages. Rejecting EPs can stunt S'pore's growth.
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
this one is fair, cos currently private owners who buy hdb must sell off their private within 6 mth. The reverse shld apply too.
Yes, all huat!
This CM may not have the results desired by govt. It is politically sensitive as joint ownership of HDB/private enables many young citizens to upgrade comfortably. It will not be a popular move to disallow this. If they anyhow knee-jerk reaction and apply CM to this based on a few articles in the press and a few (possibly envious) people complaining about joint HDB/private ownership, my respect for MIW will go down.
then will be mis-AIMed, faces blowback :D
revolt against irrational policy :D
i heard MOM is rejecting lots of EP renewals ... that is the secret CM .... very soon you will see EP # down 10-20%
well in the first place they set the bar for EP too low, so it is good to be now more discerning in the approval.
This may only be until the tsunami wave of TOP HDBs and PCs hits us in some years time. And new transport infrastructure is put in place.
The service industry is very short of workers. I see restaurants only opening to half of their capacity due to staff shortages. Rejecting EPs can stunt S'pore's growth.
i dont see how waiters or waitresses can even qualify for the lowest rung EP in the first place.
this one is fair, cos currently private owners who buy hdb must sell off their private within 6 mth. The reverse shld apply too.
it isn't practical. unless the families buy resale PCs, they wouldn't have a roof over their heads over the next 3-4 years. new developments don't sprout up overnight
this happen before...they release it and if they do it again, its like a joke...:p
releasing more HDBs for sales thru this mean will only creating another problem on HDB rental. Again, this will destablise the rental market.
in my opinion, hdb rental is part of the big picture. they are trying to let those citz have these passive income and make u happy but those who did not want to keep it and instead wanted to sell for a profit cannot blame anyone. the choice is yours. but unfortunately there are ppl who sell their hdb now coming back with all these unfair statements about those who keep it. bear in mind, all these HDB are paid for by own pockets. they deserve to have a choice just like when you decide to sell it...:) :2cents:
u cannot force HDB upgraders to sell HDB when buying new ... you can only force to sell 6m after TOP ... make sense??
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
this will create an extremely unhealthy market where the only HDB sellers in the market are those moving into new PCs ... COV will be 200k?? :scared-5:
in my opinion, hdb rental is part of the big picture. they are trying to let those citz have these passive income and make u happy but those who did not want to keep it and instead wanted to sell for a profit cannot blame anyone. the choice is yours. but unfortunately there are ppl who sell their hdb now coming back with all these unfair statements about those who keep it. bear in mind, all these HDB are paid for by own pockets. they deserve to have a choice just like when you decide to sell it...:) :2cents:
2nd ppty as passive income has always been the hidden agenda of the govt for the longest time, to help the middle class. u can see all policies shaped around this principle (sgporean no CM for 2nd ppty, but kenah CM for 3rd). sgp planning has been done extremely well in the past (can't say for now). lower class govt help. middle class self help. of coz higher class no need to say. to overturn this planning principle would mean a huge paradigm shift for the govt.
so those who were daft and sold their hdb for quick profit without a roof over the head. only have themselves to blame.
Your so-called "sandwich" class will have a lot of these HDB/joint private owners. So many people complaining about "sandwich" class. If this CM comes about the "sandwich" will turn into toast liao. :simmering:
this one is fair, cos currently private owners who buy hdb must sell off their private within 6 mth. The reverse shld apply too.
What happen if the PC owner refuse to sell their HDB? What is Govt action on those ppl. Take away their HDB?
What happen if the PC owner refuse to sell their HDB? What is Govt action on those ppl. Take away their HDB?
Their hdb will be part of the "sale of balance flats" exercise next time. :rolleyes:
Your so-called "sandwich" class will have a lot of these HDB/joint private owners. So many people complaining about "sandwich" class. If this CM comes about the "sandwich" will turn into toast liao. :simmering:
not everybody can qualify as sandwiched class owning 2 pptys leh. esp in today's context with 60% dp for 2nd ppty. that's easily 400k for a normal condo. assuming HDB use CPF to pay, assuming save 10 years, you need to save $3,300/month for 10 years to reach 400k (ignore interest or investment return). how many middle class families with car and kid can do that?
What happen if the PC owner refuse to sell their HDB? What is Govt action on those ppl. Take away their HDB?
apply the same/similar rule that if the couple did not ROM within X months after getting a new HDB flat... that it will be sold back to the govt at the same price (+ interest) they purchased at?
not everybody can qualify as sandwiched class owning 2 pptys leh. esp in today's context with 60% dp for 2nd ppty. that's easily 400k for a normal condo. assuming HDB use CPF to pay, assuming save 10 years, you need to save $3,300/month for 10 years to reach 400k (ignore interest or investment return). how many middle class families with car and kid can do that?
Why not? Their HDB mostly funded by CPF. Why must they have a car? The $$$ saved from having a car can go towards their next property. Car is a depreciating asset.
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 09:29
it is self-inflicted problem, for many years we rely on cheap labor from SEA by importing so many S-Pass / EP holders to grow our GDP without increasing productivity ... suddenly now garmen realize big problem in housing .. then trying to U-turn to reduce dependence on cheap labor and increase productivity
our GDP growth in past few years generated high inflation
where got so easy
it is self-inflicted problem, for many years we rely on cheap labor from SEA by importing so many S-Pass / EP holders to grow our GDP without increasing productivity ... suddenly now garmen realize big problem in housing .. then trying to U-turn to reduce dependence on cheap labor and increase productivity
our GDP growth in past few years generated high inflation
where got so easy
It cannot happen overnight. Singaporean workers are very demanding in terms of $$$ and entitlements (esp leave). Nowadays the young people coming into the work force and not willing to put in extra effort. They are not particularly productive. Probably due to over-pampering and spoon-feeding at home/school.
Why not? Their HDB mostly funded by CPF. Why must they have a car? The $$$ saved from having a car can go towards their next property. Car is a depreciating asset.
10 years ago, I gave my car to my wife for occassion use when I'm on overseas trip. Fast forward till today, she has own 4 cars and in between she has never been car-less even when at a point her work place was 10 mins and 3 bus stops away. In the end have to upkeep 2 cars the past 5 yrs. Hard to take away the convenience, when it became a habit, now she work in ulu Tuas area, even more justified for a car
Why not? Their HDB mostly funded by CPF. Why must they have a car? The $$$ saved from having a car can go towards their next property. Car is a depreciating asset.
why yes? you forget the 80/20 rule. you and i are the 20%. but there is alot of 80% out there. you cannot imagine that the 80% think like you and i.
thomastansb
09-01-13, 09:43
I fully agree with No.1 (HDB upgrader). I don't know why they are allowed to rent out a SUBSIDISED FLAT. If they don't need it, just sell it off. Taxpayer shouldn't be paying for them to rent out. Rent out 1 or 2 rooms, ok lah. But whole house, it is ridiculous.
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
2) Seller stamp duties for commercial property
For developers
1) DC for PES and Roof Terrace
I fully agree with No.1 (HDB upgrader). I don't know why they are allowed to rent out a SUBSIDISED FLAT. If they don't need it, just sell it off. Taxpayer shouldn't be paying for them to rent out. Rent out 1 or 2 rooms, ok lah. But whole house, it is ridiculous.
from tax perspective, garmen rather they rent out whole house, because must seek approval and declare rental. for 1/2 room, no need to declare so rental can go underground.
of coz, for general political good - it depends on how much they wan to play popular politics
thomastansb
09-01-13, 09:48
They can always change it to declare. I mean, some really need the money so fair enough. But whole flat, it just mean you don't need the subsidised flat.
from tax perspective, garmen rather they rent out whole house, because must seek approval and declare rental. for 1/2 room, no need to declare so rental can go underground.
of coz, for general political good - it depends on how much they wan to play popular politics
why yes? you forget the 80/20 rule. you and i are the 20%. but there is alot of 80% out there. you cannot imagine that the 80% think like you and i.
Yes I cannot imagine. If you think rationally. You are in the so-called sandwich class, you want to get out of it. Naturally you have to make some sacrifices. You look at the price of cars and the COE. That should be the first to go esp when you are newly married and not yet having kids. Then you can start saving for that 2nd property straight away. Even when you have kids, there's school bus to take them to and from sch. The living expenses of HDB flat are not high. Conservancy charges ? $60. Electricity should be 200 to 300 for a small family (or even less). Food- how much food can a small family eat? Maid - young newly weds should not need a maid. I take the sandwich class to be between 8000 to 12000 per month annual income. That to me, is enough to save 3 to 4K a month. or even more.
(shakes head....) Young people these days don't know how to budget and prioritise their expenses.
Perhaps the 80% think like what you said....that's why they remain in the 80% and they blame the govt that they can't climb out of the 80% when they actually can if they make the effort.
They can always change it to declare. I mean, some really need the money so fair enough. But whole flat, it just mean you don't need the subsidised flat.
If no HDB for rentals, it will create another problem for the govt/country. There is also a "sandwich-class" of foreign talents who can only afford to rent HDBs.
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 10:03
Yes I cannot imagine. If you think rationally. You are in the so-called sandwich class, you want to get out of it. Naturally you have to make some sacrifices. You look at the price of cars and the COE. That should be the first to go esp when you are newly married and not yet having kids. Then you can start saving for that 2nd property straight away. Even when you have kids, there's school bus to take them to and from sch. The living expenses of HDB flat are not high. Conservancy charges ? $60. Electricity should be 200 to 300 for a small family (or even less). Food- how much food can a small family eat? Maid - young newly weds should not need a maid. I take the sandwich class to be between 8000 to 12000 per month annual income. That to me, is enough to save 3 to 4K a month. or even more.
(shakes head....) Young people these days don't know how to budget and prioritise their expenses.
Perhaps the 80% think like what you said....that's why they remain in the 80% and they blame the govt that they can't climb out of the 80% when they actually can if they make the effort.
well said sis chiaberry ... except your 8-12k definition of sandwich is perhaps a bit too high for a newly married couple, oops I forgot now ppl marry late :-)
maid is 1k per month, new car is 1.2k per month .. saving 2k possible, saving 3-4k will be very tough ... now buy PC seed money from parents liao :eek:
young ppl must be given Pinnacle@Duxton to be happy ;)
well said sis chiaberry ... except your 8-12k definition of sandwich is perhaps a bit too high for a newly married couple, oops I forgot now ppl marry late :-)
maid is 1k per month, new car is 1.2k per month .. saving 2k possible, saving 3-4k will be very tough ... now buy PC seed money from parents liao :eek:
young ppl must be given Pinnacle@Duxton to be happy ;)
Fresh grad starting pay already close to $4k now... hence $8-12k for a newly wed couple who are both graduates will be very common.
Fresh grad starting pay already close to $4k now... hence $8-12k for a newly wed couple who are both graduates will be very common.
is it a norm for fresh grads to command that much nowadays?
is it a norm for fresh grads to command that much nowadays?
i personally knows quite a few getting $3.5 to $4k as starting pay in 2012... local ntu/nus graduates.
it isn't practical. unless the families buy resale PCs, they wouldn't have a roof over their heads over the next 3-4 years. new developments don't sprout up overnight
They shld also allow pc owner to buy BTO without the 30 mth wait if they want those who buy pc to sell their HDB...:2cents:
i personally knows quite a few getting $3.5 to $4k as starting pay in 2012... local ntu/nus graduates.
Inflation....
The "new" sandwich class or Singaporean version of sandwich class. I thought that is what the govt was catering for in raising the income ceilings for HDB/EC.
JANUARY 09, 2013 Private spaces may incur development charges Analyst say more measures targeting HDB resale market could be introduced BY MINDY TAN
Developers may be saddled with additional development charges if private roof terraces and enclosed spaces are included under the gross floor area (GFA), said Lee Lay Keng, associate director of research at DTZ. "One possible measure could be that private enclosed areas like the patio for ground floor units, or roof terraces for penthouses could be chargeable for developers," said Ms Lee, who was part of a discussion panel at the DTZ Property Seminar 2013 yesterday. Ms Lee was responding to a question about possible measures that the government might roll out in the coming year. Currently, developers of all non-landed private developments and executive condominiums (ECs) do not have to pay development charges for outdoor spaces that are open to the sky as they are not considered part of the GFA. Despite public indignation over such super-sized EC units, "developers selling off free space to make additional profit for themselves is not improper under current URA (Urban Redevelopment Authority) rules", National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said in a blog post on Monday. He has since directed URA to review and fix guidelines on the issue. Additional measures targeting the resale flat market may also be in the works, said Ms Lee. "The rise in prices in the mass market over the last two years was (partly) driven by HDB resale prices, with a lot of demand coming from the HDB upgrader segment," said Ms Lee. To tackle this, the government can consider making it a requirement for upgraders to sell their flats before purchasing a private home, said Ms Lee. This will be similar to current practices in which private property owners who want to buy a HDB flat have to dispose of their private homes within six months. Alternatively, more restrictions can be placed on owners who want to retain their HDB flats in pursuit of rental yield after upgrading to a private property. A host of measures targeting the non-residential sector, too, could be introduced. "Over the last year, a lot of investment was driven from the residential sector to the non-residential sector because of the stamp duties (imposed on the former). If prices were to run away, one possible measure is to have similar seller stamp duties, because we see a lot of sellers flipping commercial units quite quickly, some selling their unit within weeks," said Ms Lee. Specific to the industrial sector, the government will likely step up enforcement against non-qualifying users of industrial spaces, said Ms Lee. "There's also a large supply (of industrial sites which) comes from the private sector. Sites from the industrial Government Land Sales Programme have certain restrictions including minimum unit size, and certain sites cannot be strata-titled within 10 years to ensure there's sufficient sites for end-users. This (set of rules) could be applied to private sites as well," she said.
i personally knows quite a few getting $3.5 to $4k as starting pay in 2012... local ntu/nus graduates.
gross or nett? after makan, transport, utilities, watever bills, give parents & in-laws, if got young kid/s, how much r u left and how much can u save??
gross or nett? after makan, transport, utilities, watever bills, give parents & in-laws, if got young kid/s, how much r u left and how much can u save??
I mention starting pay. how much u can save depends on individuals.
Wah condo price have not even move much already cm this cm that very sian leh.
I mention starting pay. how much u can save depends on individuals.
Precisely.
The CMs should be on DEVELOPERS. They are bidding higher and higher prices for GLS. How to tame the market? When the public see the developers so gung-ho, they think the "experts" can't be getting it wrong so they join in the euphoria!
But one day the music will stop and who will suffer? Not the developers....
The one that should keep the mouth shut should be those analysts, news editors and those that always complain that property expensive.
But those always complain property expensive can afford to drink $7 starbucks, dine at restaurants, drive $100k car etc.
buttercarp
09-01-13, 11:28
The one that should keep the mouth shut should be those analysts, news editors and those that always complain that property expensive.
But those always complain property expensive can afford to drink $7 starbucks, dine at restaurants, drive $100k car etc.
$100k car is very common now.
It is the norm.
The train cannot always wait for these group of people who always complain. Hai...
$100k car is very common now.
It is the norm.
actually 100k is not very common. Whena corolla is 140k.
200k. Is common.
$100k car is very common now.
It is the norm.
actually 100k is not very common. Whena corolla is 140k.
200k. Is common.
The CMs should be on DEVELOPERS. They are bidding higher and higher prices for GLS. How to tame the market? When the public see the developers so gung-ho, they think the "experts" can't be getting it wrong so they join in the euphoria!
But one day the music will stop and who will suffer? Not the developers....
the CM should be on URA!!!! developer bid low, URA don't release land - quoting katong residences.
thomastansb
09-01-13, 12:59
They will have a bigger problem come 2016. FT sandwich class cannot vote. So whether they get a place or not, or whether 10 squeeze into 1 MM studio, that is a lesser concern.
If no HDB for rentals, it will create another problem for the govt/country. There is also a "sandwich-class" of foreign talents who can only afford to rent HDBs.
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 13:13
i personally knows quite a few getting $3.5 to $4k as starting pay in 2012... local ntu/nus graduates.
no need to guess:
In the “Fresh Graduate Pay Survey 2012” conducted by Hay Group, it was found that the average starting monthly pay for university graduates increased by 1 per cent to 3 per cent this year and that includes degree holders without Honors and with Honors, second upper and higher.
Those without Honors drew S$2, 678 while those with second upper Honors and higher drew S$2, 766 and S$2, 882 respectively.
According to the survey, which covered 79 companies across general industries in Singapore, engineering jobs ranked the highest in terms of starting pay, providing fresh grads a monthly average starting salary of $2, 777 for those without Honors.
Your 3.5k-4k is top echelon .. not the norm :beats-me-man:
Precisely.
I thought u don't know the meaning of "starting pay" by asking "gross or nett"
I thought u don't know the meaning of "starting pay" by asking "gross or nett"
I really dun know le... Care to explain?:tongue3:
actually 100k is not very common. Whena corolla is 140k.
200k. Is common.Yup... can hardly find $100k new cars.. Lol...
I really dun know le... Care to explain?:tongue3:
Childish...
Nowadays even when those who complained got their bto flats they will also will not be grateful to government. They will find ways to trash them in forums or websites or blogs in whatever way they can. In my opinion no point waiting for them.
no need to guess:
In the “Fresh Graduate Pay Survey 2012” conducted by Hay Group, it was found that the average starting monthly pay for university graduates increased by 1 per cent to 3 per cent this year and that includes degree holders without Honors and with Honors, second upper and higher.
Those without Honors drew S$2, 678 while those with second upper Honors and higher drew S$2, 766 and S$2, 882 respectively.
According to the survey, which covered 79 companies across general industries in Singapore, engineering jobs ranked the highest in terms of starting pay, providing fresh grads a monthly average starting salary of $2, 777 for those without Honors.
Your 3.5k-4k is top echelon .. not the norm :beats-me-man:
close to $3k sounds more like it. unless you are joining the military or education service, i doubt an average grad would net a starting salary that is close to $4k
phantom_opera
09-01-13, 13:52
close to $3k sounds more like it. unless you are joining the military or education service, i doubt an average grad would net a starting salary that is close to $4k
starting 8k with 9m bonus also can if you are a pro trader that can make millions for investment bank ... again ... if you screw up ... you are shown the door straight
that's why we are talking about the norm, the average, not the exceptional
imo, Pinnacle@Duxton will generate even more hooha than 2.05m EC ...
next year headline ... Pinnacle@Duxon 5r HDB sold for 1.3m, complaints will fill the media, those who bought ECs at 1.5m will complain first lol ... :simmering:
imo prime HDB should come with 10y MOP and cannnot sublet even work overseas to be fair
no need to guess:
In the “Fresh Graduate Pay Survey 2012” conducted by Hay Group, it was found that the average starting monthly pay for university graduates increased by 1 per cent to 3 per cent this year and that includes degree holders without Honors and with Honors, second upper and higher.
Those without Honors drew S$2, 678 while those with second upper Honors and higher drew S$2, 766 and S$2, 882 respectively.
According to the survey, which covered 79 companies across general industries in Singapore, engineering jobs ranked the highest in terms of starting pay, providing fresh grads a monthly average starting salary of $2, 777 for those without Honors.
Your 3.5k-4k is top echelon .. not the norm :beats-me-man:
below link seems to show a higher salary (for 2011) than Hay's survey (for 2012).
http://www.salary.sg/2012/graduate-employment-survey-2011-published-2012/
starting 8k with 9m bonus also can if you are a pro trader that can make millions for investment bank ... again ... if you screw up ... you are shown the door straight
that's why we are talking about the norm, the average, not the exceptional
imo, Pinnacle@Duxton will generate even more hooha than 2.05m EC ...
next year headline ... Pinnacle@Duxon 5r HDB sold for 1.3m, complaints will fill the media, those who bought ECs at 1.5m will complain first lol ... :simmering:
imo prime HDB should come with 10y MOP and cannnot sublet even work overseas to be fair
not surprising if pinnacle goes beyond $1m. didnt an owner comment, as reported in the news, that she wouldn't sell even if the offer was $3m?
next year headline ... Pinnacle@Duxon 5r HDB sold for 1.3m, complaints will fill the media, those who bought ECs at 1.5m will complain first lol ... :simmering:
imo prime HDB should come with 10y MOP and cannnot sublet even work overseas to be fair
i once told a friend, "you dam heng ah got the Pinnacle over 30 floors..."
then he replied "when i first applied the bto, there were people said i siao, so expensive" :D
i once told a friend, "you dam heng ah got the Pinnacle over 30 floors..."
then he replied "when i first applied the bto, there were people said i siao, so expensive" :D
I am envious of your friend. lolx.
.... Probably due to over-pampering and spoon-feeding at home/school.
This is not true and frankly quite insulting. Every generation has different aspirations and expectations, thus requires different motivation...
Most often, I see poor managers and leaders whose mind still trapped in the past - policemen do not wear shorts now...
Just like our SME managers failing to change to tap latent supply of semi-retirees, housewives.... in active search for part time work.
Our SME addicted to cheap foreign labour... who often less vocal and swallow their "tears" and ...
Regards
I am envious of your friend. lolx.
not only that, i just remember,
another friend in Pinnacle tell me he was not happy, because his purchase price is higher than those got it during initial launch, he got his later. :doh:
human are never satisfied :D
not only that, i just remember,
another friend in Pinnacle tell me he was not happy, because his purchase price is higher than those got it during initial launch, he got his later. :doh:
human are never satisfied :D
wow u got so many friends at pinnacle.
tell them u should be the one who should be unhappy as u didnt get a unit there! lol.
Just like our SME managers failing to change to tap latent supply of semi-retirees, housewives.... in active search for part time work.
Our SME addicted to cheap foreign labour... who often less vocal and swallow their "tears" and ...
you reminded me, along upper serangoon rood, after kovan mrt, towards hougang.... there is one shophouse restaurant put a huge banner stating something like "unable to hire worker due to restriction, have to close down..."
i am thinking, put this type of banner got use meh... :D
wow u got so many friends at pinnacle.
tell them u should be the one who should be unhappy as u didnt get a unit there! lol.
actually sibei true...
in the 2003... even though our household income is low, but was not eligible to buy left over flats (that time no need bto lah, leftover a lot)
bite bullet, go buy ocr 2rm condo... now of cos, it is consider blessing in disguise :D
you reminded me, along upper serangoon rood, after kovan mrt, towards hougang.... there is one shophouse restaurant put a huge banner stating something like "unable to hire worker due to restriction, have to close down..."
i am thinking, put this type of banner got use meh... :D
I can see so many instances where semi retirees and housewives could help do part time...
Could a trained housewife do accounts at home with VPN to office systems??? However, housewife performing HR functions on flexi hours.....
Strangely, many highly educated entreprenuers I know still insist on office-face-time... :banghead:
Also gahmen also not resouce optimised.
I know the 4 postmen serving my houses over the last decade are all in their 30s.... why Singpost cannot hire part timers to serve own and neighbouring precints???
Similarly, someone local to the precint to replace current full time PUB officers to do meter checking????
We are a nation addicted to resource wastage.... don't get me started on COE and car scrapping.... :banghead:
[QUOTE=phantom_opera]
then how about those who already own HDB and PCs ;) they will hold their HDB tight tight and NEVER SELL LIAO
QUOTE]
If they kenna SERS, they are not allowed to apply new HDB unless they sell PC.
Can still get the replacement HDB flat and keep pte property if Kenna SERS.
Below is extracted from HDB website.
"If you, your spouse or essential occupiers of the SERS flat own a private property as at the SERS announcement date, you may retain ownership of the private property as an investment. However, you must continue to stay in the existing flat and the replacement flat after its completion. You may sell the private property at any time during this period."
[quote=willow]
Can still get the replacement HDB flat and keep pte property if Kenna SERS.
Below is extracted from HDB website.
"If you, your spouse or essential occupiers of the SERS flat own a private property as at the SERS announcement date, you may retain ownership of the private property as an investment. However, you must continue to stay in the existing flat and the replacement flat after its completion. You may sell the private property at any time during this period."
provided they willing to leave condo and live in the replacement hdb flat.
Yah the rain was a welcome cooling measure. It has been very scorching of late...
you reminded me, along upper serangoon rood, after kovan mrt, towards hougang.... there is one shophouse restaurant put a huge banner stating something like "unable to hire worker due to restriction, have to close down..."
i am thinking, put this type of banner got use meh... :D
wahaahah u never see that kind of sign in geylang...:D:D:D
wahaahah u never see that kind of sign in geylang...:D:D:D
R u serious more in geylang?
The one in upp Serangoon road is the only one I saw, not sure if it is still there...
This is not true and frankly quite insulting. Every generation has different aspirations and expectations, thus requires different motivation...
Most often, I see poor managers and leaders whose mind still trapped in the past - policemen do not wear shorts now...
Just like our SME managers failing to change to tap latent supply of semi-retirees, housewives.... in active search for part time work.
Our SME addicted to cheap foreign labour... who often less vocal and swallow their "tears" and ...
Regards
Have you tried being your own boss and recruit Singaporeans?
Certain jobs are shunned by Singaporeans, no choice got to hire foreign workers.
When the restrictions come, cannot hire foreign workers and no Singaporeans apply.
Flexibility has limitations, lots of things are still manual and documents can only be retrieved or reference in office.
Mobility is only applicable to certain roles, thus the need to be in office for operations.
No one will understand the pain until they are in the shoes of hiring in today's times.
This may only be until the tsunami wave of TOP HDBs and PCs hits us in some years time. And new transport infrastructure is put in place.
The service industry is very short of workers. I see restaurants only opening to half of their capacity due to staff shortages. Rejecting EPs can stunt S'pore's growth.
yeah. tough to do business. but people keep complaining. Many still refuse to understand or see the impact.
Have you tried being your own boss and recruit Singaporeans?
Certain jobs are shunned by Singaporeans, no choice got to hire foreign workers.
When the restrictions come, cannot hire foreign workers and no Singaporeans apply.
Flexibility has limitations, lots of things are still manual and documents can only be retrieved or reference in office.
Mobility is only applicable to certain roles, thus the need to be in office for operations.
No one will understand the pain until they are in the shoes of hiring in today's times.
I second this. Its true many of my friends in SME business having problem hiring. mths of advertising sometime only 1 or 2 application. and many singaporean dont want to do those jobs. Also unlike transient Foreigner labor who objective is to make a better pay n then go home. They tend to be more willing to take up tough roles. for example jobs that need to work over time, weekends due to customer dead lines as there are overtime.
For the very few singaporean who are even willing to do the jobs they do not want to work such roles. even with more pay.
As there is a business to run and dead lines to meet. the Foregin work force is needed to keep things going. if not SME will either have to go out of business , move to JB or just pass on the cost to the consumers.
so dont be so miopic.
Allthepies
09-01-13, 22:51
I can see so many instances where semi retirees and housewives could help do part time...
Could a trained housewife do accounts at home with VPN to office systems??? However, housewife performing HR functions on flexi hours.....
Strangely, many highly educated entreprenuers I know still insist on office-face-time... :banghead:
Also gahmen also not resouce optimised.
I know the 4 postmen serving my houses over the last decade are all in their 30s.... why Singpost cannot hire part timers to serve own and neighbouring precints???
Similarly, someone local to the precint to replace current full time PUB officers to do meter checking????
We are a nation addicted to resource wastage.... don't get me started on COE and car scrapping.... :banghead:
If no COE and car scrapping, I can tell you you can be jammed for 2 hours just from driving out from your car park to the main road. :doh: :doh:
I would have bought 4 cars for my family members, rem I belong to the relatively low income group of <100K annual income.
I second this. Its true many of my friends in SME business having problem hiring. mths of advertising sometime only 1 or 2 application. and many singaporean dont want to do those jobs. Also unlike transient Foreigner labor who objective is to make a better pay n then go home. They tend to be more willing to take up tough roles. for example jobs that need to work over time, weekends due to customer dead lines as there are overtime.
For the very few singaporean who are even willing to do the jobs they do not want to work such roles. even with more pay.
As there is a business to run and dead lines to meet. the Foregin work force is needed to keep things going. if not SME will either have to go out of business , move to JB or just pass on the cost to the consumers.
so dont be so miopic.
Most of the times bosses never look at their own self. Of sich job are shun by local, why is that so? Why cant the pay be double? is it because bosses rather cut labour cost and buy new beemers or mercedes every few years, or frequent ktv or have mistresses here and there? Bosses never complain of their high salary...
Allthepies
10-01-13, 06:55
Most of the times bosses never look at their own self. Of sich job are shun by local, why is that so? Why cant the pay be double? is it because bosses rather cut labour cost and buy new beemers or mercedes every few years, or frequent ktv or have mistresses here and there? Bosses never complain of their high salary...
If bosses cannot make much more money than their underlyings, why work so hard to be bosses? Can just find an easy and stable 8 to 5 job.:tongue3:
Most think they can do a better job than their bosses and their bosses should take a lower pay. But once they get to these position, they will think other wise. Human nature.
If bosses cannot make much more money than their underlyings, why work so hard to be bosses? Can just find an easy and stable 8 to 5 job.:tongue3:
Most think they can do a better job than their bosses and their bosses should take a lower pay. But once they get to these position, they will think other wise. Human nature.
dude you are so narrow minded. not all bosses wanted to be bosses in the first place. maybe that's all they know. maybe their parents left them a business in debts. :doh:
dude you are so narrow minded. not all bosses wanted to be bosses in the first place. maybe that's all they know. maybe their parents left them a business in debts. :doh:
Our business is still very lucrative but we wouldn't leave it to the children. It is better that they work for big corporations and have annual leave and leisure time.
When we are too tired to carry on, we will just wind-up the companies.
Every single cent is blood, sweat and tears and we know our children cannot really take the hardship of running a small sme.
Yes I cannot imagine. If you think rationally. You are in the so-called sandwich class, you want to get out of it. Naturally you have to make some sacrifices. You look at the price of cars and the COE. That should be the first to go esp when you are newly married and not yet having kids. Then you can start saving for that 2nd property straight away. Even when you have kids, there's school bus to take them to and from sch. The living expenses of HDB flat are not high. Conservancy charges ? $60. Electricity should be 200 to 300 for a small family (or even less). Food- how much food can a small family eat? Maid - young newly weds should not need a maid. I take the sandwich class to be between 8000 to 12000 per month annual income. That to me, is enough to save 3 to 4K a month. or even more.
(shakes head....) Young people these days don't know how to budget and prioritise their expenses.
Perhaps the 80% think like what you said....that's why they remain in the 80% and they blame the govt that they can't climb out of the 80% when they actually can if they make the effort.
you expect (young) pple getting married (say arnd age 30) to be thinking about SECOND ppty when they haven't bot their first? aiyo.. forget it lah. dun say 80/20, 90/10 also dunno got or not.
salary should be 8-10k per household at around age 30 for average couple. car wise - i am not sure. some will buy, some will not. or 2nd hand.
gross or nett? after makan, transport, utilities, watever bills, give parents & in-laws, if got young kid/s, how much r u left and how much can u save??
plus the latest sleekest smartphone every 6 months
Most of the times bosses never look at their own self. Of sich job are shun by local, why is that so? Why cant the pay be double? is it because bosses rather cut labour cost and buy new beemers or mercedes every few years, or frequent ktv or have mistresses here and there? Bosses never complain of their high salary...
normal desk bound SME job in jurong.. co transport provided. pay above mkt rate 20-30%. no s'porean want to do. not even lady staying in jurong HDB area. she say prefer to go city to work. end up whole company is work permit and m'sian PR. this is happening becoz i know of such case personally.
you expect (young) pple getting married (say arnd age 30) to be thinking about SECOND ppty when they haven't bot their first? aiyo.. forget it lah. dun say 80/20, 90/10 also dunno got or not.
salary should be 8-10k per household at around age 30 for average couple. car wise - i am not sure. some will buy, some will not. or 2nd hand.
now with 6o%LTV on second property, it's hard for average middle-incomed couples to own one in their 30s. have to take time to clear loan on first property before able to save up for second.
normal desk bound SME job in jurong.. co transport provided. pay above mkt rate 20-30%. no s'porean want to do. not even lady staying in jurong HDB area. she say prefer to go city to work. end up whole company is work permit and m'sian PR. this is happening becoz i know of such case personally.
May I know what job and at what pay????
I got the frens of similar situation. They did not pay 20-30% above market rate. But they pay 20-30% more bonus once they resolve staffing issues and company does well.
It took them many years to realize and then change...
1) their accountant could work half the time from home
2) admin jobs in 2 shifts - PM and AM
3) housewives need flexi hours to go to little skool house in Jurong Safra...
4) my frens or someone on duty to ferry people from standard pickup points in Jurong Point Taxi stand at various key timings...
Now, they have no problem.
While there are old towkays laughing at my frens "pandering" to employees, but my frens are happier with less problem on employee turnover, EP/WP/ratio....
It's not all about monies. It's about leadership and management. All about doing things differently under different circumstances
Regards
yeah. tough to do business. but people keep complaining. Many still refuse to understand or see the impact.
Have you ever wonder why those cha chan tengs and restaurants in HK are never on half capacities given their minimum wages and the tight control of imported labour?
Our SME labour shortage is self-inflicted.
Regards
niwadays seems like the gap between hdb and pc rental is very small....:rolleyes:
May I know what job and at what pay????
I got the frens of similar situation. They did not pay 20-30% above market rate. But they pay 20-30% more bonus once they resolve staffing issues and company does well.
It took them many years to realize and then change...
1) their accountant could work half the time from home
2) admin jobs in 2 shifts - PM and AM
3) housewives need flexi hours to go to little skool house in Jurong Safra...
4) my frens or someone on duty to ferry people from standard pickup points in Jurong Point Taxi stand at various key timings...
Now, they have no problem.
While there are old towkays laughing at my frens "pandering" to employees, but my frens are happier with less problem on employee turnover, EP/WP/ratio....
It's not all about monies. It's about leadership and management. All about doing things differently under different circumstances
Regards
mostly admin and clerk jobs.. so 1500 vs 2000 is huge diff in %tage. of coz u can argue $500 not much, but $500 to a clerk is alot. imagine stay in jurong, walk to interchange take co transport. other than lunch, you spend zero $$$. no need expensive clothes, cheap cheap $2.50 kopitiam meals. no need waste money on after-meal snacks. good right?? but only m'sians appreciate how to save money like this.
buttercarp
10-01-13, 13:16
mostly admin and clerk jobs.. so 1500 vs 2000 is huge diff in %tage. of coz u can argue $500 not much, but $500 to a clerk is alot. imagine stay in jurong, walk to interchange take co transport. other than lunch, you spend zero $$$. no need expensive clothes, cheap cheap $2.50 kopitiam meals. no need waste money on after-meal snacks. good right?? but only m'sians appreciate how to save money like this.
Stay in Jurong, work in Jurong, everything Jurong, no need to dress up no need to make up.
Sometimes this kinda lifestyle can turn one into a boring, unattractive mountain turtle who is socially inept.
No wonder they don't want.
Stay in Jurong, work in Jurong, everything Jurong, no need to dress up no need to make up.
Sometimes this kinda lifestyle can turn one into a boring, unattractive mountain turtle who is socially inept.
No wonder they don't want.
yah, no wonder all the malaysians work and work. their ppty back home (bought in RM$) grow and grow, while the sinkies complain and complain, spend and spend, after that ask garmen for help. so which is better?
(p/s: i am 100% sinkie)
yah, no wonder all the malaysians work and work. their ppty back home (bought in RM$) grow and grow, while the sinkies complain and complain, spend and spend, after that ask garmen for help. so which is better?
(p/s: i am 100% sinkie)
Trust me, given a choice, most of the Malaysians would like to stay here.
DKSG
yah, no wonder all the malaysians work and work. their ppty back home (bought in RM$) grow and grow, while the sinkies complain and complain, spend and spend, after that ask garmen for help. so which is better?
(p/s: i am 100% sinkie)
Local fresh grad salary 2.5k. Indonesian fresh grad salary 1.8k. Malaysian fresh grad 2k. Who will you hire?
Local fresh grad salary 2.5k. Indonesian fresh grad salary 1.8k. Malaysian fresh grad 2k. Who will you hire?
...provided you do not need your employees to communicate in English.
...provided you do not need your employees to communicate in English.
No, u are wrong. Many educated Indonesian and malaysian speaks good English and not all Singaporean speak well. And usually a lot of Malaysian work as accountant or auditor in sg.
Cyberknight
10-01-13, 22:26
No, u are wrong. Many educated Indonesian and malaysian speaks good English and not all Singaporean speak well. And usually a lot of Malaysian work as accountant or auditor in sg.
And siapa boleh cakap melayu, 会说华语，gets the job.. Get REAL. The $$$ to be earned is outside of Singapore. And of course must be able to speak good English.
And siapa boleh cakap melayu, 会说华语，gets the job.. Get REAL. The $$$ to be earned is outside of Singapore. And of course must be able to speak good English.if only u have more fresh grads friends then me.....
The pay not good enough and expect too much lah.
It is like the joke about the S$3k pm dish washer, but need to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Wah lao eh, which human can work like that hah? End up the truth is S$3k pm is what they a out-sourcing company, and the outsourcing company get people to rotate to fulfill their work requirement that needs 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.... Most likely the dish washer also get about $1000 pm (after the outsourcing company get a cut of the S$3k)... They should just employ these dish washers directly at $1000 pm and save money................... :D
Actually they should just get the automatic dish washers, can work 24 hours a day also can.... Sure no human resource manpower problem! :p
I second this. Its true many of my friends in SME business having problem hiring. mths of advertising sometime only 1 or 2 application. and many singaporean dont want to do those jobs. Also unlike transient Foreigner labor who objective is to make a better pay n then go home. They tend to be more willing to take up tough roles. for example jobs that need to work over time, weekends due to customer dead lines as there are overtime.
For the very few singaporean who are even willing to do the jobs they do not want to work such roles. even with more pay.
As there is a business to run and dead lines to meet. the Foregin work force is needed to keep things going. if not SME will either have to go out of business , move to JB or just pass on the cost to the consumers.
so dont be so miopic.
A few issues here:
1) Pay not good enough
2) Working hours not flexible enough
3) Benefits not good enough
4) Bosses attitude not good enough (as though they are bosses they can dictate any works' terms & conditions)
5) Bosses can get foreign workers that are cheaper, younger, can work faster, better, no complain, can work longer hours won't ask for OT pay, why need to employ locals? :doh:
Have you tried being your own boss and recruit Singaporeans?
Certain jobs are shunned by Singaporeans, no choice got to hire foreign workers.
When the restrictions come, cannot hire foreign workers and no Singaporeans apply.
Flexibility has limitations, lots of things are still manual and documents can only be retrieved or reference in office.
Mobility is only applicable to certain roles, thus the need to be in office for operations.
No one will understand the pain until they are in the shoes of hiring in today's times.
Most of the times bosses never look at their own self. Of sich job are shun by local, why is that so? Why cant the pay be double? is it because bosses rather cut labour cost and buy new beemers or mercedes every few years, or frequent ktv or have mistresses here and there? Bosses never complain of their high salary...
Really? u have run a business before? a SME which have a 5 men shop? how to pay 6K for a accountant? or what u expect the accountant to be paid 10K? sure.. the cost have to go some where pass to consumer?
Have you ever wonder why those cha chan tengs and restaurants in HK are never on half capacities given their minimum wages and the tight control of imported labour?
Our SME labour shortage is self-inflicted.
Regards
self inflicted becoz the people have spoken. cannot accept or believe there are jobs local dont want to do.
in the end added cost will end up pass on back to the consumer.
Really? u have run a business before? a SME which have a 5 men shop? how to pay 6K for a accountant? or what u expect the accountant to be paid 10K? sure.. the cost have to go some where pass to consumer?
Sorry, 5men shop is more like grocery shop, no need to hire 10k accountant.
A few issues here:
1) Pay not good enough
2) Working hours not flexible enough
3) Benefits not good enough
4) Bosses attitude not good enough (as though they are bosses they can dictate any works' terms & conditions)
5) Bosses can get foreign workers that are cheaper, younger, can work faster, better, no complain, can work longer hours won't ask for OT pay, why need to employ locals? :doh:
5. OT everyone pay.
But locals u want to pay OT some also dont want to do! Some business cannot wait. i.e construction they work shift and have to run during weekend or even holiday. So someone have to do it.
Sorry, 5men shop is more like grocery shop, no need to hire 10k accountant.
well sorry. i am talking to a village idoit. its ok.. no need to explain.
The pay not good enough and expect too much lah.
It is like the joke about the S$3k pm dish washer, but need to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Wah lao eh, which human can work like that hah? End up the truth is S$3k pm is what they a out-sourcing company, and the outsourcing company get people to rotate to fulfill their work requirement that needs 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.... Most likely the dish washer also get about $1000 pm (after the outsourcing company get a cut of the S$3k)... They should just employ these dish washers directly at $1000 pm and save money................... :D
Actually they should just get the automatic dish washers, can work 24 hours a day also can.... Sure no human resource manpower problem! :p
How to automate brick laying?
How to automate hacking?
How to automate accounting n balancing the books?
How to automate painting?
even automatic dish washers u need someone to operate.
self inflicted becoz the people have spoken. cannot accept or believe there are jobs local dont want to do.
in the end added cost will end up pass on back to the consumer.
Many jobs like accountant, designer, architect, auditor, bank operations, bank traders go to foreigners......
Many jobs like accountant, designer, architect, auditor, bank operations, bank traders go to foreigners......
Dont matter . as long unemployment rates stays low. economy grow. added cost dont get pass on and inflate the day to day cost.
don't matter who is providing me the service.
Dont matter . as long unemployment rates stays low. economy grow. added cost dont get pass on and inflate the day to day cost.
don't matter who is providing me the service.
Ya, so is not Singaporean don't want to work..... N it's not umployment rate low, is because there's no reason for anyone to report jobless as there is no umployment benefit from the govt. If sg is like other countries whereby you can claim umployment benefits, do u think there sg umployment rate can remain < 4%? Btw, I'm not saying that govt should offer any welfare
Ya, so is not Singaporean don't want to work..... N it's not umployment rate low, is because there's no reason for anyone to report jobless as there is no umployment benefit from the govt. If sg is like other countries whereby you can claim umployment benefits, do u think there sg umployment rate can remain < 4%? Btw, I'm not saying that govt should offer any welfare
I heard that the stats is based on a snap. Shot of unemployed. In a. 6 months period.
those that are still unemployed and looking for work after 1 year are considered not included in the stats
phantom_opera
11-01-13, 07:14
in Singapore you work only for 3 parties:
1. Children
2. Temasek
3. GIC
;)
in Singapore you work only for 3 parties:
1. Children
2. Temasek
3. GIC
;)
one more - doctor
Trust me, given a choice, most of the Malaysians would like to stay here.
DKSG
they would like to stay here to work but go back to retire. they all say singapore govt top-grade. salary high high but at least work gets done. but they want to go back to the RM$100k bungalow in kampungs to retire.
they would like to stay here to work but go back to retire. they all say singapore govt top-grade. salary high high but at least work gets done. but they want to go back to the RM$100k bungalow in kampungs to retire.
they want to go back... but if children or grandchildren stuck here schooling... then how to go back retire... rooted liao :D
Allthepies
11-01-13, 08:08
they would like to stay here to work but go back to retire. they all say singapore govt top-grade. salary high high but at least work gets done. but they want to go back to the RM$100k bungalow in kampungs to retire.
Once you stay in Singapore long enough, most wont want to go back. My family is one real example. The reason is we no longer can get use to the lifestyle in Malaysia and living in a bungalow that is unsecured is no joke.
Once you stay in Singapore long enough, most wont want to go back. My family is one real example. The reason is we no longer can get use to the lifestyle in Malaysia and living in a bungalow that is unsecured is no joke.
hmm.. okay.. at least the malaysians around me, most are saving up to go back home to retire with their CPF. their kampungs are quite safe.
they would like to stay here to work but go back to retire. they all say singapore govt top-grade. salary high high but at least work gets done. but they want to go back to the RM$100k bungalow in kampungs to retire.
their roots are back in msia, simple as that. look at our famous ping-pong import, also went back to china (that's after taking millions of SGD, an amount which she would never have if she represented China). puuutttiii :simmering: :simmering:
their roots are back in msia, simple as that. look at our famous ping-pong import, also went back to china (that's after taking millions of SGD, an amount which she would never have if she represented China). puuutttiii :simmering: :simmering:
yah, first gen always want to go back. 2nd gen will stay becoz used to modern living here. actually, same as our forefathers lah. can't blame them.
recently i got one Indo gf sg PR, she went back Indonesia to get married and give birth. and a malaysian couple intending to rent out her bedok hdb and her girl will stay with relatives to complete her studies.
their roots are back in msia, simple as that. look at our famous ping-pong import, also went back to china (that's after taking millions of SGD, an amount which she would never have if she represented China). puuutttiii :simmering: :simmering:
aiyah why so narrow minded. we are paying for a service. u can also say the gold we will never get too!
take it as paying for a service fast tracking the country. whats wrong with that? dont count the beans and forget the whole farm.
recently i got one Indo gf sg PR, she went back Indonesia to get married and give birth. and a malaysian couple intending to rent out her bedok hdb and her girl will stay with relatives to complete her studies.
I realized these day people are all counting beans. focusing on the small small matters. what happen to the big picture?
the PR came buy the units from the 1st Singaporean owners too. So the singaporean can upgrade to EC or PC! without these the eco system wont move forward. win win.
so lets not count the beans..
Today is Friday any CMs lurking around :scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
I think it will come in Feb.
I think it will come in Feb.
not march?
Childish...
No. 2 face LOL
Now, let's get back to property. Peace.:cheers2:
Ya, so is not Singaporean don't want to work..... N it's not umployment rate low, is because there's no reason for anyone to report jobless as there is no umployment benefit from the govt. If sg is like other countries whereby you can claim umployment benefits, do u think there sg umployment rate can remain < 4%? Btw, I'm not saying that govt should offer any welfare
So thats good keep unemployment rate low and no need to tax working folks to fund welfare. I think that works. Dont see anything wrong with that. Why must working be tax to fund people who refuse to work?
in Singapore you work only for 3 parties:
1. Children
2. Temasek
3. GIC
;)
u miss out
1. Property
2. shiny new cars
3. latest LV n GUCCI bag
4. Must have holidays in far away land.
they would like to stay here to work but go back to retire. they all say singapore govt top-grade. salary high high but at least work gets done. but they want to go back to the RM$100k bungalow in kampungs to retire.
Have u been to any of the kampungs? now a days the Kampungs are all the old people. all the young have left to the cities to find jobs.
Once you stay in Singapore long enough, most wont want to go back. My family is one real example. The reason is we no longer can get use to the lifestyle in Malaysia and living in a bungalow that is unsecured is no joke.
My friend bunglow in JB got broken into 3 times year. 1st the house then next the car got smashed and then the house again. alarms or Dogs also no use.
After that dont feel safe move somewhere else.
in Singapore you work only for 3 parties:
1. Children
2. Temasek
3. GIC
;)
u miss out
1. Property
2. shiny new cars
3. latest LV n GUCCI bag
4. Must have holidays in far away land.
I work for money only....
LV and Gucci, China mei mei choice
I work for money only....
LV and Gucci, China mei mei choice
Then to add.. Some work for.
1. China Dragon mei mei
lol. u rite, u rite. All of us are childish and in the wrong. :D so when are u gona pack up and leave pls?
My friend bunglow in JB got broken into 3 times year. 1st the house then next the car got smashed and then the house again. alarms or Dogs also no use.
After that dont feel safe move somewhere else.
Our neighbours in the north don't like to display their wealth and attract attention. Getting a bungalow is like doing the exact opposite.
Have u been to any of the kampungs? now a days the Kampungs are all the old people. all the young have left to the cities to find jobs.
yes. my friend is the "young people" lor. his parents stay in kampung. correct mah, he is aiming next time go back and retire. when he is older.
i have stayed at his kampung. not JB lah, further north. his detached house is about the size of typical 2 semi-det houses in sgp. only about RM100k+. the village centre will bustle with life every morning and weekend. agree that more middle aged than young. nothing wrong with that, we are talking about retirement. all his siblings working outside but own houses back in kampung. and because it's a chinese kampung, they are quite safe there, neighbours all know each other.
btw, modern day kampung is not last time kampung hor. the houses there all brick and mortar, beautiful landed ppty. not lok kok lok kok one (also got lah, but different area)
lol. u rite, u rite. All of us are childish and in the wrong. :D so when are u gona pack up and leave pls?
Hi cupcakes or ilikeu or whoever it is, my sincere apologies if i offended anyone. I definitely do not wish to hijack this thread for some bickering. I m here to learn just like everyone else.
Dun be so uptight lah. Let's lighten up n inject some humour in our life. Cheers!:)
Today is Friday any CMs lurking around :scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
Wow I can't be so accurate right???
CMs really come out today leh!!!
For Investors
1) HDB upgraders must sell their flat before buying private property
2) Seller stamp duties for commercial property
For developers
1) DC for PES and Roof Terrace :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Ringo33, u the man!!:cheers4: More advance notice for the next cooling measure!! :scared-1::scared-1::scared-1:
felicia_sg
11-01-13, 19:30
2 solutions:
- Get part-timers
- Pay double
Sure got people... It is a matter of money... Is this any wonder that plumbers in UK earn more than degree holders? Or rather, degree holders in UK are also switching to be become plumbers! :p
See, westerners will also do the blue-collar job when the reward is good enough.... :rolleyes:
5. OT everyone pay.
But locals u want to pay OT some also dont want to do! Some business cannot wait. i.e construction they work shift and have to run during weekend or even holiday. So someone have to do it.
felicia_sg
11-01-13, 19:34
Yah lor, many first gen went back to China wah, include many of my grandfather's friends... :ashamed1:
yah, first gen always want to go back. 2nd gen will stay becoz used to modern living here. actually, same as our forefathers lah. can't blame them.
phantom_opera
11-01-13, 19:36
B4 comment, I need to read the detail first ... this is definitely the most powerful policy measure ever launched in the history
PAP did the right thing .... Echelon is the trigger
Even without reading, I hereby declare property as an asset class is DEAD
Now ... money will shift to high yield bond, REITs, stocks
felicia_sg
11-01-13, 19:38
Some more:
+ eat in restaurants
+ fashion clothings
+ go spa and massage
+ do facials
+ frequent hair-dos :p
u miss out
1. Property
2. shiny new cars
3. latest LV n GUCCI bag
4. Must have holidays in far away land.
Chinese village? Sooner or later will become target if they are not lao kok kok... They won't target lao kok kok only.... :doh:
yes. my friend is the "young people" lor. his parents stay in kampung. correct mah, he is aiming next time go back and retire. when he is older.
i have stayed at his kampung. not JB lah, further north. his detached house is about the size of typical 2 semi-det houses in sgp. only about RM100k+. the village centre will bustle with life every morning and weekend. agree that more middle aged than young. nothing wrong with that, we are talking about retirement. all his siblings working outside but own houses back in kampung. and because it's a chinese kampung, they are quite safe there, neighbours all know each other.
btw, modern day kampung is not last time kampung hor. the houses there all brick and mortar, beautiful landed ppty. not lok kok lok kok one (also got lah, but different area)
B4 comment, I need to read the detail first ... this is definitely the most powerful policy measure ever launched in the history
PAP did the right thing .... Echelon is the trigger
Even without reading, I hereby declare property as an asset class is DEAD
Now ... money will shift to high yield bond, REITs, stocks
So Monday when STI lao sai its time to pick up some high-yielding counters?
Chinese village? Sooner or later will become target if they are not lao kok kok... They won't target lao kok kok only.... :doh:
aiya. bro. you need to understand how they work there lah. my whole office is malaysian PR and work permit holders.. i am like the 10% population singaporeans. if things turn ugly, chinese or no chinese village, all will kenah. no diff one lah. alot of unwritten rules in malaysia, and protection of territory thru "special means".. you need to understand them.
Look forward to those property counter.
2 solutions:
- Get part-timers
- Pay double
Sure got people... It is a matter of money... Is this any wonder that plumbers in UK earn more than degree holders? Or rather, degree holders in UK are also switching to be become plumbers! :p
See, westerners will also do the blue-collar job when the reward is good enough.... :rolleyes:
sure so u want to pay $20 for ur chicken rice?
Our neighbours in the north don't like to display their wealth and attract attention. Getting a bungalow is like doing the exact opposite.
so should live in a hole in the ground?
B4 comment, I need to read the detail first ... this is definitely the most powerful policy measure ever launched in the history
PAP did the right thing .... Echelon is the trigger
Even without reading, I hereby declare property as an asset class is DEAD
Now ... money will shift to high yield bond, REITs, stocks
I don't think many people will buy into something that cannot be seen. Likely HDB upgraders will just upgrade to bigger or better located HDBs or invest overseas.
The trigger should be the EC with the supersized penthouse that KBW commented in his blog, as the government cannot be seen not controlling the "non-private" property market.
As mentioned earlier, the govt has already prepared the list of cooling measures and just needs to pick from the menu. What came was the buffet that will destabilise the property market. What it needs now is to prepare for actions to reverse the cooling measures should the market tank more than 10%. Prop will affect the economy severely so it must be prepared in advance.
adrianmtsg
12-01-13, 05:23
Wow! TS's prediction so accurate!!
As mentioned earlier, the govt has already prepared the list of cooling measures and just needs to pick from the menu. What came was the buffet that will destabilise the property market. What it needs now is to prepare for actions to reverse the cooling measures should the market tank more than 10%. Prop will affect the economy severely so it must be prepared in advance.
that is why they already caveat that some measures are only temporary. so that they will not be seen as prata if say 3mths later they withdraw some CM
that is why they already caveat that some measures are only temporary. so that they will not be seen as prata if say 3mths later they withdraw some CM
We nearly went into technical recession last quarter and yet people are buying new condos like they are buying "goreng pisang."
The government knows that the latest CM is very harsh and may drag the whole economy down, that's why they qualify that it is only temporary.
B4 comment, I need to read the detail first ... this is definitely the most powerful policy measure ever launched in the history
PAP did the right thing .... Echelon is the trigger
Even without reading, I hereby declare property as an asset class is DEAD
Now ... money will shift to high yield bond, REITs, stocks
Agreed but could start looking at overseas properties
so should live in a hole in the ground?
they basically live in unassuming look houses and drive unassuming looking cars...
thomastansb
12-01-13, 14:46
Actually I prefer them to have ABSD 25% for foreigners. 15% is just 5% more. Nothing great. Funds will still come in if it comes. And ABSD not applicable to US, Switzerland etc right? Those with FTA.
they basically live in unassuming look houses and drive unassuming looking cars...
is a bungalow in jb very unassuming? just a house with a small garden. is that very assuming?
We nearly went into technical recession last quarter and yet people are buying new condos like they are buying "goreng pisang."
The government knows that the latest CM is very harsh and may drag the whole economy down, that's why they qualify that it is only temporary.
wat to do there are a group on the ground making noise coz miss the boat. want crash crash crash.... mah
but I doubt this group will even buy if there was a crash. coz fear will sit in.
Wow! TS's prediction so accurate!!
Is he KBW?
wat to do there are a group on the ground making noise coz miss the boat. want crash crash crash.... mah
but I doubt this group will even buy if there was a crash. coz fear will sit in.
Ahh.... basic and basically.
STI not moving much...only property stock kena hit...
Actually I prefer them to have ABSD 25% for foreigners. 15% is just 5% more. Nothing great. Funds will still come in if it comes. And ABSD not applicable to US, Switzerland etc right? Those with FTA.
I don't think so.. If the price go up 5%, yes investor will still come in as at least it is inside the valuation of the property... But ABSD is a tax... if it like giving money away.... For foreigner it is like paying $115/- for a thing that actually worth $100/-
Singapore cooling: Property measures spell danger
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/property-cooling-measures-may-spell-danger-expert-014927354--sector.html
I don't think so.. If the price go up 5%, yes investor will still come in as at least it is inside the valuation of the property... But ABSD is a tax... if it like giving money away.... For foreigner it is like paying $115/- for a thing that actually worth $100/-
I am confused. The sentiment was always that FT driving up prices. And the answer was that it is the SC driving up prices.
If that is true, there should not be a need to tax the FT so what gives? unless all the while the people were right that the FT was in fact driving prices up the curve.
I am confused. The sentiment was always that FT driving up prices. And the answer was that it is the SC driving up prices.
If that is true, there should not be a need to tax the FT so what gives? unless all the while the people were right that the FT was in fact driving prices up the curve.
Should be new sc are driving up prices
blackapple
14-01-13, 19:25
From 2013-2015, the number of BTO cross MOP is the lowest. The government is trying to force those rented by PR back to the resale market and reduce the PR fighting for resale.
CM 8 will be SC must sell or stay in HDB if they own condo..
From 2013-2015, the number of BTO cross MOP is the lowest. The government is trying to force those rented by PR back to the resale market and reduce the PR fighting for resale.
CM 8 will be SC must sell or stay in HDB if they own condo..
This will not fly. The garmen has always advocated `Do-Not-Sell' your HDB... keep for retirement so in no way they'll forced the SC to sell their HDeeBee
sell your own retirement home/nest egg? I notice a lot of older folks move back from condo to HDB. Cos mature estates have hawker centres and wet market nearby. something that is a bit of a rarity with condos.
you are right, amenities are becoming more important...besides, whats the point for them to pay the monthly maintenance when they dont use the gym or swimming? Their children might be getting married and getting the first BTOs...:D
sell your own retirement home/nest egg? I notice a lot of older folks move back from condo to HDB. Cos mature estates have hawker centres and wet market nearby. something that is a bit of a rarity with condos.
From 2013-2015, the number of BTO cross MOP is the lowest. The government is trying to force those rented by PR back to the resale market and reduce the PR fighting for resale.
CM 8 will be SC must sell or stay in HDB if they own condo..
The reason why it wont happen is because the government needs to show Singaporeans that citizens do have their privilege
sell your own retirement home/nest egg? I notice a lot of older folks move back from condo to HDB. Cos mature estates have hawker centres and wet market nearby. something that is a bit of a rarity with condos.
Because when they buy pc, didnt think long term, go buy at places without ammenities.
Because when they buy pc, didnt think long term, go buy at places without ammenities.
they drawn by the pool and the jaga at the gate... the old design of mature estate is to surround the wet market and hawker centre with flats. so if the land plots are already utilise, PCs can't be constructed near those amenities.
Because when they buy pc, didnt think long term, go buy at places without ammenities.
Why landed not near amenities ?
Why landed not near amenities ?
there are, but there are not many landed estates near amenities.
if one buys a 3rd property, but with the intention to dispose of his 2nd, will he get ABSD rebate?
if one buys a 3rd property, but with the intention to dispose of his 2nd, will he get ABSD rebate?
Of course not. Upfront you will pay the absd on purchase of the 3rd property.
Of course not. Upfront you will pay the absd on purchase of the 3rd property.
So it means you have to dispose your 2nd property first before buying?
Why landed not near amenities ?
because they want to privacy and exclusivity?!?! :doh:
can you imagine a wet market in the midst of oxley road or nassim road?!! security guards will have a heyday doing their job
if one buys a 3rd property, but with the intention to dispose of his 2nd, will he get ABSD rebate?
no, rebate is only for 2nd prop purchase when u dispose the 1st prop within 6mths of taking the key of 2nd prop.
So it means you have to dispose your 2nd property first before buying?
assuming u have 2 props: prop A and prop B.
if u dispose prop B, meaning having only prop A on hand,
when u buy again, prop C, it will be considered as 2nd prop purchase, so u pay 7%(sc),10%(pr) for prop C
then u can request for absd rebate for prop C, if u dispose prop A within 6 mths of taking the key of prop C; meaning u left with 1 prop (which is prop C)
Thanks Taggy, so no rebate for 3rd property.
buttercarp
17-01-13, 08:33
Thanks Taggy, so Tek should be able to get rebate for his 3rd property if he sells his 2nd within 6 minths, right?
If he is SC, yes- get back 3%.
Buy 3rd property 10% ABSD.
Sell 2nd property, now 3rd property becomes 2nd property which incurs 7% Absd, so rebate is 3%.
because they want to privacy and exclusivity?!?! :doh:
can you imagine a wet market in the midst of oxley road or nassim road?!! security guards will have a heyday doing their job
that is not what i mean if u read careully:doh:
If he is SC, yes- get back 3%.
Buy 3rd property 10% ABSD.
Sell 2nd property, now 3rd property becomes 2nd property which incurs 7% Absd, so rebate is 3%.
hmm...7% is still a lot :(
If he is SC, yes- get back 3%.
Buy 3rd property 10% ABSD.
Sell 2nd property, now 3rd property becomes 2nd property which incurs 7% Absd, so rebate is 3%.
I get it now... It is a brilliant move by our government to deter hoarding :D
What if you are a SC whose first property was a foreign one? For example first property in JB 2nd a SG pc? Will that pc purchase be considered as your 2nd?
If he is SC, yes- get back 3%.
Buy 3rd property 10% ABSD.
Sell 2nd property, now 3rd property becomes 2nd property which incurs 7% Absd, so rebate is 3%.
actually i dun think it works this way.
absd relief is only for married couples swapping 2nd property with 1st property only.
to get that 3% difference, will have to sell the 2nd first before getting the 3rd. else will have to write in for special consideration, and at mercy of appeal board.
ABSD relief will also be provided to eligible married couples with at least one
Singaporean spouse, who have purchased a second private residential
property and will dispose their existing residential property.
(i) The ABSD paid will be refunded if these Singaporean married couples
dispose their first property within six months of the purchase of the
second property, if the latter property is a completed unit.
(ii) If the second property is an uncompleted unit, the refund will be given if
the first property is disposed within six months of the Temporary
Occupation Permit (TOP) or Certificate of Statutory Completion (CSC)
date of the second property, whichever is earlier.
(iii) These Singaporean couples must also not acquire any other residential
property before the disposal of the first residential property, if they wish
to avail themselves of the refund on ABSD paid on the second
property.
last few days was also reflecting on those FTA citizens, eg US.
How are they treated? as no property, then they may get unfair advantage.
then remembered that even for locals, overseas or even malaysian properties are also counted (where hdb is concerned), right?
so if US citizens already have 1 US property (eg), then when they buy, it will be considered as 2nd property, right? anyone knows the correct treatment.
buttercarp
17-01-13, 11:50
actually i dun think it works this way.
absd relief is only for married couples swapping 2nd property with 1st property only.
to get that 3% difference, will have to sell the 2nd first before getting the 3rd. else will have to write in for special consideration, and at mercy of appeal board.
Yup... lifeline is right.
:ashamed1:
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/uploadedFiles/Other_Taxes_and_Services/Stamp_duty/xxx/ABSD_Rates_for_Joint_Purchases_Made_by_Married_Couples_and_ABSD_Refund_for_Purchase_of_Second_Residential_Property.pdf
last few days was also reflecting on those FTA citizens, eg US.
How are they treated? as no property, then they may get unfair advantage.
then remembered that even for locals, overseas or even malaysian properties are also counted (where hdb is concerned), right?
so if US citizens already have 1 US property (eg), then when they buy, it will be considered as 2nd property, right? anyone knows the correct treatment.
hard to enforce and check on Singapore's shores, though US citizen suffer from global taxation.
in this current climate and if i were a US citizen, i would snap up US properties, rather than Singapore for obvious reasons
in this current climate and if i were a US citizen, i would snap up US properties, rather than Singapore for obvious reasons
this is esp true. why will they want to invest in a niche market, with downside risks of more cooling measures? unless they are already residents here or have other investment objectives.
this is esp true. why will they want to invest in a niche market, with downside risks of more cooling measures? unless they are already residents here or have other investment objectives.
This is the myth most foreigners know but few Singaporeans understand.
If you have been living in US for a while or other countries, you will know that not many countries go out to "protect" their citizens property prices like Singapore.
Maybe property owners' interest is aligned to that in Singapore. But you see, in Sg, when property prices move up too much and may cause a bubble, goverment quickly move in to cool it so that bubble do not form (too big). Guess what happens when property prices start to correct by 10-20-30% ? Government quickly stop land sales, cut stamp duties, and do whatever it takes to move it back up!
And in Sg, we know the government can do that exactly - as evidenced by the "price too low in land bids, we dont sell" incidents.
The reason why people choose to invest here rather than their home country is very very evident.
Think, my friends, Think!
DKSG
This is the myth most foreigners know but few Singaporeans understand.
If you have been living in US for a while or other countries, you will know that not many countries go out to "protect" their citizens property prices like Singapore.
Maybe property owners' interest is aligned to that in Singapore. But you see, in Sg, when property prices move up too much and may cause a bubble, goverment quickly move in to cool it so that bubble do not form (too big). Guess what happens when property prices start to correct by 10-20-30% ? Government quickly stop land sales, cut stamp duties, and do whatever it takes to move it back up!
And in Sg, we know the government can do that exactly - as evidenced by the "price too low in land bids, we dont sell" incidents.
The reason why people choose to invest here rather than their home country is very very evident.
Think, my friends, Think!
DKSG
while this is a fair comment, the upside potential in US outweighs the downside risks in SG. in the current climate and favorable forex conditions, overseas properties are alluring.
This is the myth most foreigners know but few Singaporeans understand.
If you have been living in US for a while or other countries, you will know that not many countries go out to "protect" their citizens property prices like Singapore.
Maybe property owners' interest is aligned to that in Singapore. But you see, in Sg, when property prices move up too much and may cause a bubble, goverment quickly move in to cool it so that bubble do not form (too big). Guess what happens when property prices start to correct by 10-20-30% ? Government quickly stop land sales, cut stamp duties, and do whatever it takes to move it back up!
And in Sg, we know the government can do that exactly - as evidenced by the "price too low in land bids, we dont sell" incidents.
The reason why people choose to invest here rather than their home country is very very evident.
Think, my friends, Think!
DKSG
what is the myth? not very clear from your post.
while this is a fair comment, the upside potential in US outweighs the downside risks in SG. in the current climate and favorable forex conditions, overseas properties are alluring.
This is from our view.
If you are in the US, you may not see it this way.
DKSG
what is the myth? not very clear from your post.
The myth is that Singaporeans may take property investment as a can-gain-can-lose thingy, foreigners already know that they wont lose in the longer run.
Many in US realised that at the expense of their retirement funds.
In Singapore, we all know that 10 years later, our property prices will be very very much higher than now.
The reason ? Mentor BJ21 already mentioned many times.
DKSG
The myth is that Singaporeans may take property investment as a can-gain-can-lose thingy, foreigners already know that they wont lose in the longer run.
Many in US realised that at the expense of their retirement funds.
In Singapore, we all know that 10 years later, our property prices will be very very much higher than now.
The reason ? Mentor BJ21 already mentioned many times.
DKSG
hmm, if foreigners dont believe the myth, why are foreign funds pulling out of singapore and taking losses?
Perhaps when foreign funds pull out, it become headline news?
and when foreign funds invest in real estate, it is not news worthy?
Wheelock also sell their entire stake to SC, taking losses.
Note the sequence of the announcement of the cooling measure and new MRT lines. Good timing.
Note the sequence of the announcement of the cooling measure and new MRT lines. Good timing.
I don't think it is the end
the biggest will come the last, perhaps after the BE
I don't think it is the end
the biggest will come the last, perhaps after the BE
wah enough of news liao.. cannot stomach...:D
hmm, if foreigners dont believe the myth, why are foreign funds pulling out of singapore and taking losses?
Perhaps when foreign funds pull out, it become headline news?
and when foreign funds invest in real estate, it is not news worthy?
Wheelock also sell their entire stake to SC, taking losses.
You are right! When funds come into Singapore, most of them are discreet and does not want to attract attention.
Office Boy has seen tens of millions funds quietly flowing into our property market in the past 2 years ...
Thats all I can say.
Good Luck!
DKSG
You are right! When funds come into Singapore, most of them are discreet and does not want to attract attention.
Office Boy has seen tens of millions funds quietly flowing into our property market in the past 2 years ...
Thats all I can say.
Good Luck!
DKSG
You already mentioned past 2 years, nobody can guarantee it will be the same for next 2 years...We dont even know what will happen tomorrow, not to mention few years down the road. I am working in one of the top tier foreign bank and I have seen so many asked to go within this 2 years...
proud owner
17-01-13, 20:46
You already mentioned past 2 years, nobody can guarantee it will be the same for next 2 years...We dont even know what will happen tomorrow, not to mention few years down the road. I am working in one of the top tier foreign bank and I have seen so many asked to go within this 2 years...
i have been talking about silent 'layoff' in the financial industry for the last 6 mths ... but it seems sporeans feel this top 10 pct earners are a small pct ,,...
There are some things that don't need a guarantee to see what's coming in the next few years. Just need to know which are the key factors to focus on to have a clearer strategy.
i have been talking about silent 'layoff' in the financial industry for the last 6 mths ... but it seems sporeans feel this top 10 pct earners are a small pct ,,...
Perhaps that's why CCR is having such a hard time...
i have been talking about silent 'layoff' in the financial industry for the last 6 mths ... but it seems sporeans feel this top 10 pct earners are a small pct ,,...
Yes u are right, it's really 'silent'...seen a dept downsize n subsequently gone within a year. Actually not just the top earners were asked to go, many included junior Analyst, Associates levels too...
Wheelock also sell their entire stake to SC, taking losses.
well.. i am no insider. but i dun think wheelock is stupid.
if i am simon cheong, i will think of what i will gain by winning on the privatisation. and go all out to make sure i win.
how i do it. guess lor.
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