View Full Version : With CM7, what should we do now?
National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan added: “A large supply of public and private housing – up to 200,000 units in total – will be completed in the coming years. Coupled with the new measures, we will be better placed to ensure that housing remains affordable to Singaporeans.”
1. For 1st timer buyer who urgently need a roof, should you buy on weakness now or buy in 2014/2015?
2. For buyer intending to buy a second property for investment, should you buy on weaknes now or buy in 2014/2015?
3. For multiple PC owvers, should you buy more on weakness now or buy more in 2014/2015? Alternatively, should you sell some now on strength and buy more later?
4. For SPR who are lucky to be able to hold on to both their PC and HDB flat, should you sell your HDB flat or PC or move into HDB flat and rent out your PC?
5. For foreigner, should you buy on weankess now, buy in 2014/2015 or rent and invest elsewhere?
The intent of CM7 is to discourage one to buy now (which will cause further price pressure).
Whoever you are, the right call can make a difference in your investments.
Markets strengthening, that's why need the latest CM to cool coz if there isn't.........price will appreciate even higher and spell more trouble. :2cents:
Quite hard to reverse the herd mentality in buying frenzy unless market crashes.
The only way to temper the rise is via cooling measure, which means..... still gonna go UP.
i am interested to know what is happening at the showroom this weekend.
Multiple PC owners should wait and see till March 2013.
National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan added: “A large supply of public and private housing – up to 200,000 units in total – will be completed in the coming years. Coupled with the new measures, we will be better placed to ensure that housing remains affordable to Singaporeans.”
1. For 1st timer buyer who urgently need a roof, should you buy on weakness now or buy in 2014/2015?
2. For buyer intending to buy a second property for investment, should you buy on weaknes now or buy in 2014/2015?
3. For multiple PC owvers, should you buy more on weakness now or buy more in 2014/2015? Alternatively, should you sell some now on strength and buy more later?
4. For SPR who are lucky to be able to hold on to both their PC and HDB flat, should you sell your HDB flat or PC or move into HDB flat and rent out your PC?
5. For foreigner, should you buy on weankess now, buy in 2014/2015 or rent and invest elsewhere?
The intent of CM7 is to discourage one to buy now (which will cause further price pressure).
Whoever you are, the right call can make a difference in your investments.
phantom_opera
13-01-13, 09:53
FEO giving 5pc disc today only lol, backdate trick?
FEO giving 5pc disc today only lol, backdate trick?
I already received it yesterday. You received it again today?
nothing left to do, Coffeeshop Talk threads will increase exponentially :D
2014/2015?
Just keep an eye and enter when prices corrected and absd removed.
Stay put and focus on other area of investment.
Leave the property market to the 1st timers now.
blueangel71
13-01-13, 10:29
If owners bought during last 1-2 years, they would have to pay the seller stamp duty now and I think the appreciation of their property is not as high as those who bought 3-4 years ago, i.e. they are stuck. They may have some capital gain but whether it is able to offset the seller stamp duty, interest, buyer stamp duty when they bought it etc, only the owner knows.
What current cooling measures means to me is, I can't buy and sell unless I fork out more cash which is bad news for me. My family is growing and I need more space for my kids. Why am I being overlooked by garmen just because first timers make more noise in the last GE so their grievances are being heard?
Garmen only think of first timer, how about upgrader like myself? I have to pay extra stamp duty (the moment I sign on the dotted line) for a new development as I have to stay at my current place while waiting for new development being built. I need more space as I am growing my family and isn't it garmen policy to encourage S'pore citizens to have more babies? :banghead:
Garmen claim that these are temporary measures, please, I don't need temporary measures and stop changing the rules every 6-8 months as it is very disruptive for citizens, PRs, foreigners and investment as well not knowing what's next (uncertainity). It got to show you don't understand where's the problem and having to introduce cooling measures 7 times! INTEREST RATE is the culprit and tackle that don't peg it with US rate...
Garmen only think of first timer, how about upgrader like myself? I have to pay extra stamp duty (the moment I sign on the dotted line) for a new development as I have to stay at my current place while waiting for new development being built. I need more space as I am growing my family and isn't it garmen policy to encourage S'pore citizens to have more babies? :banghead:
...
Yes, you will need to pay for the 7% ABSD first and claim back later if you sell your flat within 6 month of TOP for BUC PC or getting your key for your resale PC.
Policies are meant to address the majority unfortunately & as a policy maker, it is not feasible to implement policies that are so "wide" that it covers the minority even. Rather, the minorities should be addressed outside the policies as an "outlier".
2014/2015?
Just keep an eye and enter when prices corrected and absd removed.
Stay put and focus on other area of investment.
Leave the property market to the 1st timers now.
Absolutely!
However, it will still hurt many first time buyers buying now at this price.
CM 7 is a better approach for them to moderate supply & demand. This eventually is good for everyone. Because dont be too happy now tat you buy without the CM because the situation could turn ugly in 2015/2016. They know it is very dangerous for them to keep releasing lands for bidding and keep increasing the supply of HDBs. Oversupply of HDBs and PC is more headache than all these CMs curbing demand as they can be lifted them anytime.
The CM in Dec 2011 almost froze the market for 3 mths. Activities returned in Apr 2012 if I remember correctly. So did the price correct?? Lets see how long ppl forget and return to the market...:D
Just as many get caught by cm7 by surprise,
Any chance garmen give all a surprise 3 mth later by removing cm7? :)
proud owner
13-01-13, 10:56
If you are a first time buyer, and if the over cost is lower than before CM7, then just buy
Even if it later corrects 10 - 15 pct in the next 12 months, it still beat inflation over the long haul. In any case you won't sell for the next 4 years unless you are forced to right?
If you are buying a 2nd prop then you need the cash first which you can claim back part of the cost after you sell your first, if you are an upgraded
But if you are buying 2nd to invest, then you really need to have money power, otherwise don't play
So I think the latest CM is not bad , at least to weed out the weaker investors.
If you cant afford to play, don't. This game is not for you. This is the message many have been telling everyone in this forum for a long time.
blueangel71
13-01-13, 10:56
Well, developer don't take 6months to build a new devlopement but 3 years
CM 7 is a better approach for them to moderate supply & demand. This eventually is good for everyone. Because dont be too happy now tat you buy without the CM because the situation could turn ugly in 2015/2016. They know it is very dangerous for them to keep releasing lands for bidding and keep increasing the supply of HDBs. Oversupply of HDBs and PC is more headache than all these CMs curbing demand as they can be lifted them anytime.
The CM in Dec 2011 almost froze the market for 3 mths. Activities returned in Apr 2012 if I remember correctly. So did the price correct?? Lets see how long ppl forget and return to the market...:D
DPM Therman was quoted saying that the CM would be lifted once prices slowed (corrected). KBW already stated that the government would hold some inventory even after supply meeting demand to be able to better control prices in future.
Looks like there is some certainty in the future if the government could meet its objectives. The million dollar question is what is consider affordable price?
Absolutely!
However, it will still hurt many first time buyers buying now at this price.
I hope the more prudent ones will either go for EC or Hdb Bto.
It is a good time to shop for resale hdb flats instead if young couples need a home urgently.
Just as many get caught by cm7 by surprise,
Any chance garmen give all a surprise 3 mth later by removing cm7? :)
When prices corrected for 10% or more.
You already answered your question isn't it?
Affordable price is Toa Payoh / Tiong Bahru 5RM HDB flat is about 1 Million dollars in 2014/2015. :p
DPM Therman was quoted saying that the CM would be lifted once prices slowed (corrected). KBW already stated that the government would hold some inventory even after supply meeting demand to be able to better control prices in future.
Looks like there is some certainty in the future if the government could meet its objectives. The million dollar question is what is consider affordable price?
blueangel71
13-01-13, 11:07
If you are a first time buyer, and if the over cost is lower than before CM7, then just buy
Even if it later corrects 10 - 15 pct in the next 12 months, it still beat inflation over the long haul. In any case you won't sell for the next 4 years unless you are forced to right?
If you are buying a 2nd prop then you need the cash first which you can claim back part of the cost after you sell your first, if you are an upgraded
But if you are buying 2nd to invest, then you really need to have money power, otherwise don't play
So I think the latest CM is not bad , at least to weed out the weaker investors.
If you cant afford to play, don't. This game is not for you. This is the message many have been telling everyone in this forum for a long time.
I am buying for my growing family not investment. I wanted to buy a new development which I like not those under construction or TOP already. It takes 3 years to build not 6 months. So if I were to sell now, where do I stay? I got to rent? No one knows whether it will drop 10-15 pct, that's anybody guess. The last cooling measure, many say so it will drop and so does the previous cooling measure. :D
Whether this is a game for the rich, I am not interested. I am only interested in getting a place for my family without paying extra to garmen
You already answered your question isn't it?
Affordable price is Toa Payoh / Tiong Bahru 5RM HDB flat is about 1 Million dollars in 2014/2015. :p
Politically, it is quite a challenge.
I am buying for my growing family not investment. I wanted to buy a new development which I like not those under construction or TOP already. It takes 3 years to build not 6 months. So if I were to sell now, where do I stay? I got to rent? No one knows whether it will drop 10-15 pct, that's anybody guess. The last cooling measure, many say so it will drop and so does the previous cooling measure. :D
Whether this is a game for the rich, I am not interested. I am only interested in getting a place for my family without paying extra to garmen
hi angel...
If the second property is an uncompleted unit, the ABSD refund will be given if the first property is disposed within six months of the Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) or Certificate of Statutory Completion (CSC) date of the second property, whichever is earlier.
I still do not understand what is the main motivation to buy new launches for own stay? Paying high prices for new launches and yet have to wait 3years to complete?
Hdb bto is cheaper than resale flats that still make it worthwhile to wait. Same applies to new EC.
phantom_opera
13-01-13, 11:11
Kenobi wan happy with eC 770psf, figure it out yourself what OCR condo price should be
Kenobi wan happy with eC 770psf, figure it out yourself what OCR condo price should be
We should try to read between the lines with politicians. He also cannot said that he is not happy right?
We should try to read between the lines with politicians. He also cannot said that he is not happy right?
Fundamentally, we should take cues from bto prices for public housing.
770psf too general le...near MRT or not? :D
So it's 770 + 200 (for PC) + 200 (those near MRT) + 150 (for matured estate) = 1320 psf :scared-4:
:p :2cents:
Kenobi wan happy with eC 770psf, figure it out yourself what OCR condo price should be
If owners bought during last 1-2 years, they would have to pay the seller stamp duty now and I think the appreciation of their property is not as high as those who bought 3-4 years ago, i.e. they are stuck. They may have some capital gain but whether it is able to offset the seller stamp duty, interest, buyer stamp duty when they bought it etc, only the owner knows.
What current cooling measures means to me is, I can't buy and sell unless I fork out more cash which is bad news for me. My family is growing and I need more space for my kids. Why am I being overlooked by garmen just because first timers make more noise in the last GE so their grievances are being heard?
Garmen only think of first timer, how about upgrader like myself? I have to pay extra stamp duty (the moment I sign on the dotted line) for a new development as I have to stay at my current place while waiting for new development being built. I need more space as I am growing my family and isn't it garmen policy to encourage S'pore citizens to have more babies? :banghead:
Garmen claim that these are temporary measures, please, I don't need temporary measures and stop changing the rules every 6-8 months as it is very disruptive for citizens, PRs, foreigners and investment as well not knowing what's next (uncertainity). It got to show you don't understand where's the problem and having to introduce cooling measures 7 times! INTEREST RATE is the culprit and tackle that don't peg it with US rate...
quit complaining lah. just sell ur current place lor. and buy a new 1 u are treated as 1st timer wat.
mean time move in with ur in laws or something.
pepople these days keep complaining..
what abt those who need to retire? they need a 3rd house to invest to retire. why why garmen also over look them .. why why why?? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I am buying for my growing family not investment. I wanted to buy a new development which I like not those under construction or TOP already. It takes 3 years to build not 6 months. So if I were to sell now, where do I stay? I got to rent? No one knows whether it will drop 10-15 pct, that's anybody guess. The last cooling measure, many say so it will drop and so does the previous cooling measure. :D
Whether this is a game for the rich, I am not interested. I am only interested in getting a place for my family without paying extra to garmen
then buy 1 that is TOP lor ready to use. u need something right must be now mah.. if u can wait 3yrs then its not urgent. wat 3yrs later than buy lor when supply are out.
the 1st time more urgent need a place to hump....
Resale sellers gonna suck thumb now vis-a-vis direct developer sales which performs the absd aabsd aaabsd etc absorption illusion trick.
... such measures do not exactly help the 1st time buyers ... basically telling the rest of the buyers to hold their horses .. unless you want to help give more bonus to the bosses .. if not .. let the 1st time buyers continue to patronize the developers ...
and the resale market will shrink significantly both hdb and pc ... first timer have no other choices except new hdb, bto, ec and developing pc
end of it .. who are really those that kpkb resulting in such significant resentment ... those that essentially missed the many boats but still not able to upgrade or buy 2nd property ... such measures basically kill their hope now .. but the pent-up demand will even be higher later on ... but continue to benefit a more stable and stronger rental mkt ..
its always about be careful of what you wished for ...
Why not? With the focus on reducing Foreign workers, all middle-income and lower-income singaporeans have better chance of increased pay, employers no excuse to employ FWs saying that singaporeans don't want the work (yah true in a certain way, don't want because employers want to pay $1000 pm and expect them to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, don't complain of OT, don't expect OT pay, can sack anytime and send them home anytime (then they can't complain even if employers' wrong-doing) sure lah.... :p).
Property prices is a matter of income of the people, regardless of which category they are buying, whether HDB, OCR, RCR, CCR private...
Politically, it is quite a challenge.
Originally Posted by teddybear
You already answered your question isn't it?
Affordable price is Toa Payoh / Tiong Bahru 5RM HDB flat is about 1 Million dollars in 2014/2015. :p
ya, not trying to offend him but really, i think he is more complaining then anything else...:rolleyes:
sometimes i think ppl from hk or even our neighbors will appreciate & understand the situation better. :2cents:
then buy 1 that is TOP lor ready to use. u need something right must be now mah.. if u can wait 3yrs then its not urgent. wat 3yrs later than buy lor when supply are out.
the 1st time more urgent need a place to hump....
I also don't understand, but figured out that it has to do with "investment" mentality (can flip after 3-4 years just before TOP without paying or pay very little SSD etc), and/or don't need to pay cash for renovation etc...
How you explain HDB DBSS and HDB BTO, both are new launch and DBSS price is up to 50% more expensive, but many still opt for DBSS?
I still do not understand what is the main motivation to buy new launches for own stay? Paying high prices for new launches and yet have to wait 3years to complete?
Hdb bto is cheaper than resale flats that still make it worthwhile to wait. Same applies to new EC.
i am interested to know what is happening at the showroom this weekend.
Refer to today 联合早报 some agents said can back date to 11 Jan 2013 as sat/sun most of office not open and SNP document will hold with them and submit to their office on next Monday.
Advised by lawyer, it is fine but if either party, either buyer or seller, complaint the sale will back off.
Refer to today 联合早报 some agents said can back date to 11 Jan 2013 as sat/sun most of office not open and SNP document will hold with them and submit to their office on next Monday.
Advised by lawyer, it is fine but if either party, either buyer or seller, complaint the sale will back off.
Controller of Housing will check as well......
it is not easy to cheat....
Controller of Housing will check as well......
it is not easy to cheat....
Right? So all parties must sing the same song......
I also don't understand, but figured out that it has to do with "investment" mentality (can flip after 3-4 years just before TOP without paying or pay very little SSD etc), and/or don't need to pay cash for renovation etc...
How you explain HDB DBSS and HDB BTO, both are new launch and DBSS price is up to 50% more expensive, but many still opt for DBSS?
Buying new launches from investment point of view, i can understand. I just cannot understand the logic for own stay.
As for hdb bto and dbss, i think dbss locations were more superior and located in mature estate during Mr Mah era. Furthermore, dbss income ceiling was higher.
then buy 1 that is TOP lor ready to use. u need something right must be now mah.. if u can wait 3yrs then its not urgent. wat 3yrs later than buy lor when supply are out.
the 1st time more urgent need a place to hump....
Yes i do not get it as well.
Get a ready bigger condo or hdb and sell current hdb and get the refund on absd. i do not see any problem. Just a little bit more hassle on the refund part and also 7% more cash required to pay absd first.
blueangel71
13-01-13, 12:20
I still do not understand what is the main motivation to buy new launches for own stay? Paying high prices for new launches and yet have to wait 3years to complete?
Hdb bto is cheaper than resale flats that still make it worthwhile to wait. Same applies to new EC.
The problem is existing owners refuse to sell cheap as they are seeing developers making tons of money. I don't want to nego with sellers anymore as they think their house is make of gold...
The problem is existing owners refuse to sell cheap as they are seeing developers making tons of money. I don't want to nego with sellers anymore as they think their house is make of gold...
There are so many projects and sellers. Look further u will be rewarded. I am sure resale prices cannot be more expensive than new launches.
Cm7 will actually help u to find a more realistic seller soon.
blueangel71
13-01-13, 12:23
quit complaining lah. just sell ur current place lor. and buy a new 1 u are treated as 1st timer wat.
mean time move in with ur in laws or something.
pepople these days keep complaining..
what abt those who need to retire? they need a 3rd house to invest to retire. why why garmen also over look them .. why why why?? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I guess it didnt hurt you so no complain from you but when it does...I'm not sure what will be your reaction. :tsk-tsk: Talk is easy and cheap
hahaha...reverse your angle...
if u are the seller, what would you do? sell cheaper?? If u do not want the hassle of nego, then pay more. the choice is actually yours and dont complain that u do not have a choice. :o
:2cents:
The problem is existing owners refuse to sell cheap as they are seeing developers making tons of money. I don't want to nego with sellers anymore as they think their house is make of gold...
I am pretty sure resale prices are cheaper than new launches for bigger units. So buyers are more willing to pay more into developers' pocket and on the other hand trying to negotiate hard when comes to resale market?
Avoid recent TOP projects as some are indeed priced higher than new launches.
If you want cheaper, go resale. If you want new, get ready to pay closer to developer prices. Everyone is taking "their dressing" (in army lingo terms) from the developers.
There are so many projects and sellers. Look further u will be rewarded. I am sure resale prices cannot be more expensive than new launches.
Cm7 will actually help u to find a more realistic seller soon.
if u really need there are places. but I guess u want good yet want cheap? well cant be also be near roadside right?
I am pretty sure resale prices are cheaper than new launches for bigger units. So buyers are more willing to pay more into developers' pocket and on the other hand trying to negotiate hard when comes to resale market?
Avoid recent TOP projects as some are indeed priced higher than new launches.
aiyah I dont think he is genuine need. its like the YT everyday mt senile.
I guess it didnt hurt you so no complain from you but when it does...I'm not sure what will be your reaction. :tsk-tsk: Talk is easy and cheap
really maybe u want splash out ur no.s we see if its resale doable? then keep asking must buy brand new condo.
talk is surely cheaper than paper this days.
if u really need a place a resale HDB is really much bigger than a new condo these days. n cheaper!
The problem is existing owners refuse to sell cheap as they are seeing developers making tons of money. I don't want to nego with sellers anymore as they think their house is make of gold...
If you can broker a separate deal for them to buy cheap after they sell theirs to you, perhaps they might be enticed to sell you on the cheap as well.
hahaha...reverse your angle...
if u are the seller, what would you do? sell cheaper?? If u do not want the hassle of nego, then pay more. the choice is actually yours and dont complain that u do not have a choice. :o
:2cents:
Exactly, seller wants to sell high but buyer wants to buy low. Everybody will have a chance to be a seller. Nothing is perfect.
But I think that garment should target more on public housing. Some of the profit made from resale public housing is so much higher than pc, maybe that's one of the reasons why some of the upgraders can afford to buy pc.
Exactly, seller wants to sell high but buyer wants to buy low. Everybody will have a chance to be a seller. Nothing is perfect.
But I think that garment should target more on public housing. Some of the profit made from resale public housing is so much higher than pc, maybe that's one of the reasons why some of the upgraders can afford to buy pc.
Resale public housing didn't rally as much as PC. A few small exceptions are like those queenstown area. Buangkok bto. And maybe duxton.
they cannot control the resale hdb price la and it is also not rite to do it. if they want to do it, then it is only fair to state in the contract how much you can make when u buy the hdb...but that's besides the point. when it is your turn to sell, they suddenly tell you cannot sell 20% (for eg) above your buying price, can you accept??
they can only influence the market price thru BTOs and policies. If more ppl can buy BTO in Sengkang for 300K, do you think they want to buy resale at 600K?? (putting location aside for this case...) willing buyer willing seller market.
Exactly, seller wants to sell high but buyer wants to buy low. Everybody will have a chance to be a seller. Nothing is perfect.
But I think that garment should target more on public housing. Some of the profit made from resale public housing is so much higher than pc, maybe that's one of the reasons why some of the upgraders can afford to buy pc.
Exactly, seller wants to sell high but buyer wants to buy low. Everybody will have a chance to be a seller. Nothing is perfect.
But I think that garment should target more on public housing. Some of the profit made from resale public housing is so much higher than pc, maybe that's one of the reasons why some of the upgraders can afford to buy pc.
Actually I thought CM7 target resale HDB a lot... think about it.
All the policies is to encourage HDB upgraders to sell their HDB instead of renting it out. And it AFFECTS EVERYONE, even Singapore citizen.
I think CM7 is quite strong.
Yes i do not get it as well.
Get a ready bigger condo or hdb and sell current hdb and get the refund on absd. i do not see any problem. Just a little bit more hassle on the refund %part and also 7% more cash required to pay absd first.
Provided he paid up the housing loan? If not he will need 25% more cash in order to book his 2nd ppty. So this add on to 7% ABSD makes upgrading pretty difficult.
Basically he needs to have first ppty paid up, 5% cash, 15% CPF and 7% ABSD to be able to upgrade. For a 1 mil ppty, this is 120K cash. Previously he only need 50K cash.
phantom_opera
13-01-13, 14:16
Hot money will find other channels to hedge inflation eg voluntary contribute 7k to Cpf for whole families, save tax 4pc risk free COMPOUND return lol
The introduction of CMs one after and another with interest rate still remains low will not spur owners to sell their properties cheap, unless they need cash badly. Buyers will be more difficult to negotiate down the price of subsale and resale PCs.
proud owner
13-01-13, 14:34
The introduction of CMs one after and another with interest rate still remains low will not spur owners to sell their properties cheap, unless they need cash badly. Buyers will be more difficult to negotiate down the price of subsale and resale PCs.
My biggest fear is that interest rate will rise.
I haven't read any out of Singapore but a few analysts have written of a turn in global interest rate by June this year , especially USD rate
Provided he paid up the housing loan? If not he will need 25% more cash in order to book his 2nd ppty. So this add on to 7% ABSD makes upgrading pretty difficult.
Basically he needs to have first ppty paid up, 5% cash, 15% CPF and 7% ABSD to be able to upgrade. For a 1 mil ppty, this is 120K cash. Previously he only need 50K cash.
Is there ways to solve this like bridging loan? Once he sell his current hdb, he will be able to pay back.
My biggest fear is that interest rate will rise.
I haven't read any out of Singapore but a few analysts have written of a turn in global interest rate by June this year , especially USD rate
No fear. Interest rate likely to rise very slowly for this year.
It is actually healthy for interest rate to rise slowly provided it is backed by global economy recovery and not the worse case stagflation scenerio i had painted.
My biggest fear is that interest rate will rise.
I haven't read any out of Singapore but a few analysts have written of a turn in global interest rate by June this year , especially USD rate
Ocbc offering variable board rate. 1st yr 1.08, 1.18 1.28. Think that is the lowest now:confused:
I own hdb and more than one PC, I have no plans to sell any even with 8th CM, even it is rotting.... Wich jokingly should not happen, Aiya, just save more cash for future needs lor..... My view is singapore is very small, prices can only go up.....important is your holding power.
Do you think obama can do magic on march 2013?
My biggest fear is that interest rate will rise.
I haven't read any out of Singapore but a few analysts have written of a turn in global interest rate by June this year , especially USD rate
I own hdb and more than one PC, I have no plans to sell any even with 8th CM, even it is rotting.... Wich jokingly should not happen, Aiya, just save more cash for future needs lor..... My view is singapore is very small, prices can only go up.....important is your holding power.
Is all you PCs paid up? No more loans?
My view is Singapore is very small and not very stable.
Think about it, Singapore does not have natural resource, small population, population not clever (no MNCs from singapore)....
Rely only on foreign MNC investment and our "reserve". One fine day, the government turns bad... you will see your property go down the drain.
I am seriously thinking about buying overseas.
My biggest fear is that interest rate will rise.
I haven't read any out of Singapore but a few analysts have written of a turn in global interest rate by June this year , especially USD rate
i am of the opinion that we might see a US rate hike some in Sep-Oct...
Must have blessings from EC and China too.
i am of the opinion that we might see a US rate hike some in Sep-Oct...
Must have blessings from EC and China too.
they can't wait for US to stop turning their money into banana notes. Then the EU can let their weaker currency rescue them from recession.
Is all you PCs paid up? No more loans?
My view is Singapore is very small and not very stable.
Think about it, Singapore does not have natural resource, small population, population not clever (no MNCs from singapore)....
Rely only on foreign MNC investment and our "reserve". One fine day, the government turns bad... you will see your property go down the drain.
I am seriously thinking about buying overseas.
It is always right to diversify ur investment..., so as to protect ur savings,.....I have nver bother to pay off my loans, I consider them as good debts😃, I thank the banks for lending me $ all these years.....Singapore is small and stable. singaporeans are clever, smart and savvy investors, if not we would not have got what we have now....everything have risk, I find buying oversea properties biggest risk is currency change and who is looking after ur oversea property.
Agree....this is also how I feel. :p
If even here we have limited control, then it will be worst when we are in others country. :o
If we are no good and unstable, we won't be where we are today. Just have to keep working harder, if not, your life is meaningless...sorry, this is hard truth! You will then appreciate more of your achievement. :) :2cents:
It is always right to diversify ur investment..., so as to protect ur savings,.....I have nver bother to pay off my loans, I consider them as good debts😃, I thank the banks for lending me $ all these years.....Singapore is small and stable. singaporeans are clever, smart and savvy investors, if not we would not have got what we have now....everything have risk, I find buying oversea properties biggest risk is currency change and who is looking after ur oversea property.
I think it will and they will do it gradually...at some pt, the banks will have to collect back as they will slow down the printing. If not, where got money to you u...:D
Nowadays EU, US, Japan and now China all are very coordinated in their effort, where got like last time...therefore, don't worry. With concerted effort, we should be in better position to save each others. Interest rate goes up also means better job positions and economical situation. Don't worry be happy...:)
:2cents:
i am of the opinion that we might see a US rate hike some in Sep-Oct...
The first reaction will be a selloff in assets because the markets will feel unprepared for the interest rate hikes. But once they start getting used to the idea. It will be business as usual.
i am of the opinion that we might see a US rate hike some in Sep-Oct...Ya,without interest rate goes up,it is difficult to have a meaningful ppty price correction.Sellers can just afford to hold on.If interest rate is 4%,CM will remove one by one.
"what should we do ?"
Who are the "we" ?
As pty owners/investors, "we" do nothing. Continue renting out, wait for pent up demand to come on line in 3 yrs time. Even at 2% rental yield, with such low interest rate, the holding cost is nothing.
As potential "upgraders", "we" do nothing either. With all the tax and etc, and the "we" above not selling, upgraders are ordered to do nothing now, and wait for a miracle correction in 3yrs time.
Combined result of these 2 is simply a freeze of market with no price movement.
In the meantime developers and banks will get less new business. Ok they made enough, now is NS time for 3 yrs.
Actually for single property upgraders who aren't affected by the absd. They can be on the look out during ths timeout called CM7. Rather than waiting as you say for a miracle correction.
phantom_opera
13-01-13, 21:23
not many resale owners will be selling ... and most big players have their interest to protect ...
the most likely situation is land bids will moderate for a while especially if not near MRT
hotel 81 style kind of project may drop price by 5-10%
buttercarp
13-01-13, 21:23
I own hdb and more than one PC, I have no plans to sell any even with 8th CM, even it is rotting.... Wich jokingly should not happen, Aiya, just save more cash for future needs lor..... My view is singapore is very small, prices can only go up.....important is your holding power.
May I know if your PC's are FH?
If they are 99y LH, will you consider selling them when they reach a certain age, and if so, how old will that be?
Actually for single property upgraders who aren't affected by the absd. They can be on the look out during ths timeout called CM7. Rather than waiting as you say for a miracle correction.
It's not they want to wait. They have no choice. Doing now needs upfront cash (2nd loan), ABSD ( even though u can claim back later), a simple upgrader does not have that kind of cash. If you have 500k cash now, chances are you are already savvy enough to not to be an upgrader.
CM7 basically closed the bridge for simple upgraders.
The key thing is there will be no panic selling. Without economy crash there is no reason anyone wants to do firesale.
Do you think obama can do magic on march 2013?
What's happening? I googled and all results point to RFID implants :confused:
Property owners and investors can do nothing for as long as they can hold. However, for property developers, they may not choose the same path. If we recall during the previous downturn, many decelopers cut prices just to move inventories. The new law requiring them to sell all units within 2 years of TOP also means some developers will just cut prices to sell.
If investors continue to do nothing, developers will have no choice but to cut prices further to attract buyers.
We shall see if this CM has this effect.
It's not they want to wait. They have no choice. Doing now needs upfront cash (2nd loan), ABSD ( even though u can claim back later), a simple upgrader does not have that kind of cash. If you have 500k cash now, chances are you are already savvy enough to not to be an upgrader.
CM7 basically closed the bridge for simple upgraders.
The key thing is there will be no panic selling. Without economy crash there is no reason anyone wants to do firesale.
So who are the buyers for new launches going forward?
1st timers can opt for hdb bto or EC. Condos could be their last choice unless they exceed income ceiling.
Small developers might be in trouble. :rolleyes:
Property owners and investors can do nothing for as long as they can hold. However, for property developers, they may not choose the same path. If we recall during the previous downturn, many decelopers cut prices just to move inventories. The new law requiring them to sell all units within 2 years of TOP also means some developers will just cut prices to sell.
If investors continue to do nothing, developers will have no choice but to cut prices further to attract buyers.
We shall see if this CM has this effect.
I agree with u.
I guess developer will eventually drop 7-10% in pricing to attract investors. When will it happen?
It will be good to save up more and prepare to enter the market when absd is lifted.
Cheers.
I agree with u.
I guess developer will eventually drop 7-10% in pricing to attract investors. When will it happen?
Actually the main problem is the upfront cash needed to buy 2nd or more property. A simple 7-10% price cut, but the upfront cash required is still a huge amount.
:beats-me-man:
It's not they want to wait. They have no choice. Doing now needs upfront cash (2nd loan), ABSD ( even though u can claim back later), a simple upgrader does not have that kind of cash. If you have 500k cash now, chances are you are already savvy enough to not to be an upgrader.
CM7 basically closed the bridge for simple upgraders.
The key thing is there will be no panic selling. Without economy crash there is no reason anyone wants to do firesale.
true. if they have 500k in the bank and missed so many boats, then good luck to them.
so they should sell their current place. and quickly find another unit.
If the "we" are the "MTB"s, even with a 7% drop, "we" still will not buy.
The only buyers will be rich guys picking up bargains, or rich parents buying for kids.
Actually the main problem is the upfront cash needed to buy 2nd or more property. A simple 7-10% price cut, but the upfront cash required is still a huge amount.
:beats-me-man:
go for a 6weeks conpletion if possible and if you have to sell the place to upgrade.
If the "we" are the "MTB"s, even with a 7% drop, "we" still will not buy.
The only buyers will be rich guys picking up bargains, or rich parents buying for kids.
rich guys who can pay 100% cash if they wanted.
Actually the main problem is the upfront cash needed to buy 2nd or more property. A simple 7-10% price cut, but the upfront cash required is still a huge amount.
:beats-me-man:
Ltv for 2nd property is reduced from 60 to 50%. I do not think the min 25% cash downpayment is critical when ltv is already at 60% previously.
Most of their cpf should be locked up in their 1st property anyway.
Many hdb upgradders would opt to fully pay up their hdb loan before purchasing another condo.
So in my opinion, 7% absd is the main stumbling block for hdb upgradders now which i believe forms the main bulk of purchases in the recent red hot ocr projects.
Ltv for 2nd property is reduced from 60 to 50%. I do not think the min 25% cash downpayment is critical when ltv is already at 60% previously.
Most of their cpf should be locked up in their 1st property anyway.
Many hdb upgradders would opt to fully pay up their hdb loan before purchasing another condo.
So in my opinion, 7% absd is the main stumbling block for hdb upgradders now which i believe forms the main bulk of purchases in the recent red hot ocr projects.
Agree. I think the consideration for these people is whether to deploy all the cash. Also now with 7% ABSD, the sunk cost is now higher. Probably comparing whether the investment still make sense.
Coming with 50% equity is a beat feat with today's escalated prices.
CM7 will be solved with QE5.
Coming with 50% equity is a beat feat with today's escalated prices.
loan tenure cap at 65 is critical and spells the end for those above 50. Used to be able to stretch till 75-80.
Don't raise your hopes on further QE. US economy is on the mend.
Those above 50 was probably shut out in the last CM as it is.
QE is highly possible just need one europe country to come out with really bad news or debt ceiling raising rejected if not how market make money if everyone on the same side. For your info the amount of money injected to stock market is at its highest now.
Highest amount of money injected to stocks:
http://m.cnbc.com//id/100373188
moving forward for investment all will go cheong MM in the OCR... 7% or 10% still managable.
Highest amount of money injected to stocks:
http://m.cnbc.com//id/100373188
Even more so, if there is a flood of liquidity into financial assets, the need for further QE gets less and less.
moving forward for investment all will go cheong MM in the OCR... 7% or 10% still managable.
True. $1m is $70k or $100k extra. Ouch.
Even more so, if there is a flood of liquidity into financial assets, the need for further QE gets less and less.
When market get ugly QE comes in. It will not be now. It will need more people to buy stocks.
With this wall of liquidity. We'll probably need a few more years. But I do believe the next ugly downturn will be very ugly.
Allthepies
14-01-13, 07:00
To TS: just buy a big nice 5 room HDB to house your family. It is definitely cheaper better than a similarly size condo. You will have peaceful nights sleeping in your HDB.
True. $1m is $70k or $100k extra. Ouch.
agree, hard to cheong. For foreigners thats 180k for 1m ppty.
For local investors, have to come out with about $700k for 1m ppty. Only for the rich.
agree, hard to cheong. For foreigners thats 180k for 1m ppty.
For local investors, have to come out with about $700k for 1m ppty. Only for the rich.
And those who buy 3rd property and want to borrow more than 30 years. They need to stump out almost 90+% of the property value. We can copy some of the fpreigners and buy property in cash.
To TS: just buy a big nice 5 room HDB to house your family. It is definitely cheaper better than a similarly size condo. You will have peaceful nights sleeping in your HDB.
Thank you for your advice.
The intent of the thread is to obtain a more diverse view from different group of people to better appreciate their thinking. It was not intended to solicit advice.
phantom_opera
14-01-13, 09:17
if it is your first home or you intend to sell HDB and upgrade ... of coruse ... get a TRIO, QUADRUPIA or PENTAKEY unit !!!!
agree, hard to cheong. For foreigners thats 180k for 1m ppty.
For local investors, have to come out with about $700k for 1m ppty. Only for the rich.
Heard that foreigners who marry local girls are using their wives' names to buy PCs. Very smart of them or maybe the girls?
the foreigners will still get hit, if they put their names down on the lease documents.
my take is - just sit back and drink a pina colada, relax and wait till the dust and panic settles, and market will be back up again
PropertyNewbie
14-01-13, 09:28
Find 1 corner, relax there and come out 3 years later
Waiting for black swan to swim here.
What will be the impact to Singapore economy if our government keep on pushing away foreign investment and FT out of Singapore? While all foreign investment and expatriate flow to our neighboring country (M'sia, Philiphine, indonesia, Thailand….) will these move actually slow down our growth? I am more worried that if economy down turn and without much existing foreign investment within the system to support. Liquidity will be vary fast dry up if we never fatten it now. interest rate will shoot up, unemployment will spike (due to less foreign co setup).
What will be the impact to Singapore economy if our government keep on pushing away foreign investment and FT out of Singapore? While all foreign investment and expatriate flow to our neighboring country (M'sia, Philiphine, indonesia, Thailand….) will these move actually slow down our growth? I am more worried that if economy down turn and without much existing foreign investment within the system to support. Liquidity will be vary fast dry up if we never fatten it now. interest rate will shoot up, unemployment will spike (due to less foreign co setup).
well currently the electorate have growing majority that don't care. They are more concern on what they see right in front of them. If things go bad later. then just cry foul and want blood. They rather throw the baby out with the bath water if they dont get what they want.
Sad to say thats the current state of mindset. All focus on personal gains n wants.
Actually I think the move will actually promote investment... It will actually stop investment into our property sector which really does not help the economy at all....
Now a lot of foreigner are unwilling to come to Singapore to work or company dun want to come Singapore for investment as the cost is really high... And the primary cost of this high cost in property prices
If the property price went down, the cost of investing in Singapore in terms of setting up a office or factory is lower.. So more company will come to set up office/factory means better employment and higher income for the people...
buttercarp
14-01-13, 16:55
Actually I think the move will actually promote investment... It will actually stop investment into our property sector which really does not help the economy at all....
Now a lot of foreigner are unwilling to come to Singapore to work or company dun want to come Singapore for investment as the cost is really high... And the primary cost of this high cost in property prices
If the property price went down, the cost of investing in Singapore in terms of setting up a office or factory is lower.. So more company will come to set up office/factory means better employment and higher income for the people...
Wow!
You have a point there!
You are looking at the broader aspect ie attract the big investors and those with the capital to start an industry.
Just my humble view... Property Market have nothing to do with the economy.. It is a result of economy growth but will not generate economy growth...
If you are setting up company, cost is very important too.. Higher property cost will directly means higher rental, higher salary, higher cost of goods.
A simple example. If you are a foreign company and want to set up a branch in Singapore, you will need to send your own management over to Singapore.. So the first thing is their expat package which includes rental of accommodation. Property price increase- > Rental Increase This result in higher cost..
Another example. If property price is higher, the expected salary of the people in the country will be higher.. Why you cannot earn only $500? As it is not enough for you to survive.. A higher property pricing mean shops rental is higher=>result in the things they sell is higher... housing price is higher=>result you need more money to have a place to stay.... This result in higher overhead for the company...
Wow!
You have a point there!
You are looking at the broader aspect ie attract the big investors and those with the capital to start an industry.
How about the FT that requires to run business? Can they easily get an employment pass? if they are promoting foreign investment, govt should be sending out cooling measure on office/industrial building/rental market not residential.
How about the FT that requires to run business? Can they easily get an employment pass? if they are promoting foreign investment, govt should be sending out cooling measure on office/industrial building/rental market not residential.
Aren't the government doing this now... Industry property is included to CM7.... And also the residential property is the key factor as it directly linked to the salary range of your workers..
The government is having problem with increasing the FT in Singapore due to Singaporean's objection (You can see in the last election) and also our infrastructure (Look at the MRT, Bus, roads, etc), Singapore really cannot handle that much more people anymore now without seriously affecting the life of Singaporean now..
But we still need to attract investment and the key point is the cost... We need to control cost... If the price of property keep going up, the salary of the people will have to go up.... You cannot expect a house cost 1 million and ask your people to draw 1k salary right? But if a house only cost 100k and you ask your people draw 1k salary.. Maybe it is still ok...
Just my humble view
Just my humble view... Property Market have nothing to do with the economy.. It is a result of economy growth but will not generate economy growth...
If you are setting up company, cost is very important too.. Higher property cost will directly means higher rental, higher salary, higher cost of goods.
A simple example. If you are a foreign company and want to set up a branch in Singapore, you will need to send your own management over to Singapore.. So the first thing is their expat package which includes rental of accommodation. Property price increase- > Rental Increase This result in higher cost..
Another example. If property price is higher, the expected salary of the people in the country will be higher.. Why you cannot earn only $500? As it is not enough for you to survive.. A higher property pricing mean shops rental is higher=>result in the things they sell is higher... housing price is higher=>result you need more money to have a place to stay.... This result in higher overhead for the company...
Then we need low cost labour dont we? why we suddenly create our own labour crunch?
Aren't the government doing this now... Industry property is included to CM7.... And also the residential property is the key factor as it directly linked to the salary range of your workers..
The government is having problem with increasing the FT in Singapore due to Singaporean's objection (You can see in the last election) and also our infrastructure (Look at the MRT, Bus, roads, etc), Singapore really cannot handle that much more people anymore now without seriously affecting the life of Singaporean now..
But we still need to attract investment and the key point is the cost... We need to control cost... If the price of property keep going up, the salary of the people will have to go up.... You cannot expect a house cost 1 million and ask your people to draw 1k salary right? But if a house only cost 100k and you ask your people draw 1k salary.. Maybe it is still ok...
Just my humble view
they are not asking singaporean to draw 1K they are asking low cost labour to draw 1K and go home spend.
So that sgpean can have higher pay yet enjoy lower cost.... anythats the past. we rejected that. so why are the people complain high cost?
its part n parcel.
We want to eat the cake but just dont want to see who made it. and we want it cheap. Life dont work that way.
Then we need low cost labour dont we? why we suddenly create our own labour crunch?
hahaha... Because of SC lah. Open the door for foreigners, we give one GRC to WP... If continue to open up, maybe next election will have 2 to 3 GRC go to WP.....
Heard that foreigners who marry local girls are using their wives' names to buy PCs. Very smart of them or maybe the girls?
if they stay together, they are smart. if they split, maybe the girls are smarter? lol.
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