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Lovelle
27-01-13, 14:21
so quickly come out with CM 7 for the eelection and what do they get now ?

fiat500
27-01-13, 14:28
so quickly come out with CM 7 for the eelection and what do they get now ?
Ya, it affected the sentiments definitely.
This cm7 is simply too harsh for everyone to stomach..
I am sure the cm7 has affected the election results against p.a.p one way or another..

bargain hunter
27-01-13, 14:29
pple like me more buay song the 7% stamp duty.

if they are serious about cooling, just make pple pay more cash and take less loan. i'd rather pay 10% more cash than pay 7% stamp duty. wouldn't u?




so quickly come out with CM 7 for the eelection and what do they get now ?

RCT
27-01-13, 14:32
hahaha.. I think you still don't know what is happening in Singapore... CM7 come too late... That is the problem.. Even a communist state like China understand that rising housing price will become a national issues. How can Singapore government turn a blind eye to it and let it run away... Singapore should not even allow foreigner to buy our property for investment

fiat500
27-01-13, 14:39
pple like me more buay song the 7% stamp duty.

if they are serious about cooling, just make pple pay more cash and take less loan. i'd rather pay 10% more cash than pay 7% stamp duty. wouldn't u?
Yes, the stamp duty is the killing part..
Local buyers are not happy giving away $$$ just like that ..

myfirstpc
27-01-13, 14:42
They huat themselves to cool the market rather than raise the $$ barrier between buyer/sellers/developers/banks. End up every new CM, they get $$ upfront in the pocket and leave the market to fend for itself. They want a piece of the $$ in the market. buyer/seller/developer etc all have to set aside some $$$ for them. Maybe it is good for all, but results have yet to be proven.

myfirstpc
27-01-13, 14:45
Punishing everyone just for a few bad apples. Like in the NS and depicted in Ah Boys to Men.

RCT
27-01-13, 15:01
They huat themselves to cool the market rather than raise the $$ barrier between buyer/sellers/developers/banks. End up every new CM, they get $$ upfront in the pocket and leave the market to fend for itself. They want a piece of the $$ in the market. buyer/seller/developer etc all have to set aside some $$$ for them. Maybe it is good for all, but results have yet to be proven.

Totally agree... I still want to recommend to use China cooling measure if they are really sincere in settling the issues. China government really impressed me with their determination in cooling down the property sector. Housing is the most fundamental things that the government must ensure that the people are able to afford.. To allow PR to buy HDB is the worst decision they can make. PR should not be allow to buy HDB.. If they want to buy, they have change to SC. I am not against PR but HDB should be for Singaporean only.. Let it be old or new... but for people who are sincerely in making Singapore their home.

fiat500
27-01-13, 15:01
Punishing everyone just for a few bad apples. Like in the NS and depicted in Ah Boys to Men.
Already make so much $$$ from coe,now they also want a bigger slice of cake from the property sector by adding more taxes.

Rysk
27-01-13, 15:18
pple like me more buay song the 7% stamp duty.

if they are serious about cooling, just make pple pay more cash and take less loan. i'd rather pay 10% more cash than pay 7% stamp duty. wouldn't u?

Too many ppl buay song incl. those staying in Punggol after the CM7..
Cannot buy anymore.. so now have to hold tight tight to all my properties.. Cos once sold, replacement cost is too high if wanted to buy again :banghead:

lajia
27-01-13, 15:22
My humble opinion, we have to learn how to appreciate...look at our neighbours and then as far as our Asia continent. Who in this continent without any resources and yet as successful as us??
There are definitely room for improvements. But, also u need to open your eyes and appreciate. :2cents:

How to compare to china...:doh:

bargain hunter
27-01-13, 15:24
paying them 7% is still in cash and upfront. may as well decrease the ltv further.

sherlock
27-01-13, 15:26
I for one, is not and will not be paying ABSD even if it is lesser than the foreigners. Why should SC be paying stamp duties in our homeland? :confused:

Any other countries that allow PRs to buy subsidized housing btw?

sabian
27-01-13, 15:36
So desperate? Citing BE as a reason to remove CM7...
Didn't know Punggol East has so many multiple property owners.

myfirstpc
27-01-13, 15:48
For every home replacement, Seller A sells SSD, + Seller A turned buyer ABSD, and the seller C to buyer A's SSD, and Buyer B (ABSD) on Seller A's house.

For 1 transaction, a chain of associated transactions needed to take place !!!

The BIG picture:
Seller A pays SSD (assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)
Buyer A pays ABSD (next property)
Buyer B pays ABSD (on A's property)
Seller C pays SSD (sell to A, assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)

ToTAL: 2xSSDs and 2xABSDs collected!!!!!!!!!!

Where to find such deals $$ falling from the sky into my pocket?
Can you see the $$$$ staring at miw, cash registers are ringing (4 rings per house replacement)? SCs are the largest group to be milked for this. New Revenue stream or CM. Inflation CONTINUES.

chiaberry
27-01-13, 15:53
Where to find such deals $$ falling from the sky into my pocket?
Can you see the $$$$ staring at miw, cash registers are ringing (4 rings per house replacement)? SCs are the largest group to be milked for this. New Revenue stream or CM. Inflation CONTINUES.

They are after all the Pay and Pay Party.

Must live up to their real name.

Donate more $$$ to MIW.

This is one way they can keep the Income Tax rates down.

myfirstpc
27-01-13, 15:57
Food for thought, GST will be revised to 12%.

Lovelle
27-01-13, 16:04
Even hk chief does not dare to charge absd on citizens to keep vote. Khaw happily tax SC to buy property. So confident of winning election. Just to get back.fired.

hovivi
27-01-13, 16:06
some complained about housing they panicked and especially when by election coming

They launched cm7 still lose election and make condo owner angry

This is like Liu Bei.. Lost his wifes and army... 赔了夫人又泽兵。 LOL

Lovelle
27-01-13, 16:08
Greed is the word. What more can b said



For every home replacement, Seller A sells SSD, + Seller A turned b




uyer ABSD, and the seller C to buyer A's SSD, and Buyer B (ABSD) on Seller A's house.

For 1 transaction, a chain of associated transactions needed to take place !!!

The BIG picture:
Seller A pays SSD (assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)
Buyer A pays ABSD (next property)
Buyer B pays ABSD (on A's property)
Seller C pays SSD (sell to A, assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)

ToTAL: 2xSSDs and 2xABSDs collected!!!!!!!!!!

Where to find such deals $$ falling from the sky into my pocket?
Can you see the $$$$ staring at miw, cash registers are ringing (4 rings per house replacement)? SCs are the largest group to be milked for this. New Revenue stream or CM. Inflation CONTINUES.

Rosy
27-01-13, 16:18
Many buyers are attracted to new launches. To make it less appealing, SSD should commence upon TOP.

Alternatively, developers are not allowed to sell off the plan. This will definitely helps to bring down frantic land bidding.

Kelonguni
27-01-13, 16:23
Seriously, an 11% vote swing is a huge one, considering that this was previously being PAP territory, all the big shots standing behind Dr Koh, despite his boo-boo in his statement on car ownership and the Palmer incident factor (which was similar to that in Hougang but did not sway the votes).

It was a bad time to call elections. Singles were and are still promised that they are able to buy new flats soon, but Mr Khaw has delayed the announcement to sometime this year. So nothing is confirmed for them. A large portion of this group would have voted against the incumbent for sitting on this.

The 7% ABSD on second property was too much for many citizens to stomach, dousing their aspirations with a hefty tax, just two weeks before the by-elections, way before they can see a decrease in property prices probably as a result of these taxes to compensate for the feeling of loss. Nothing is confirmed though as there might be more inventive ways of developers to hold the prices and pass this onto consumers.

Even the baby bonus was not carefully thought of. Besides the cut-off dates for additional cash eligibility being in the last 1/3 of the year, the cut-off household income for additional child subsidies at $7500 probably also upset some of the upper middle income earners. What they should have done is to graduate that and add in a subsidy of $20-$50, even for those higher income earners, to generate a feeling of winning together.

The silent middle-middle and upper-middle income group has always been supporters of the PAP. It is not wise to have both CM7 and baby bonus come out so near the by-election. Those who are against PAP still vote for WP, but a proportion of the supporters of PAP also switch ranks to signal their unhappiness in the way things are going.

It is a problem of trying to do more and achieving less.

Rysk
27-01-13, 16:24
Even hk chief does not dare to charge absd on citizens to keep vote. Khaw happily tax SC to buy property. So confident of winning election. Just to get back.fired.

They forever do what they like.. tot SC forever only listen & lan lan just follow..
Developers used to support but now pissed off with "too many CM" esp. the last CM7..
Who knows now developers all gang up secretly do something behind.. & WP won loh.. :D

fiat500
27-01-13, 16:30
some complained about housing they panicked and especially when by election coming

They launched cm7 still lose election and make condo owner angry

This is like Liu Bei.. Lost his wifes and army... 赔了夫人又泽兵。 LOL
If they hold another election now elsewhere in another estate, they will also most likely lose it..
Time for them to implement policies to please singapore citizens rather than making us pay more n more unjustifiable tax policies...

Lovelle
27-01-13, 16:53
They forever do what they like.. tot SC forever only listen & lan lan just follow..
Developers used to support but now pissed off with "too many CM" esp. the last CM7..
Who knows now developers all gang up secretly do something behind.. & WP won loh.. :D


Now sc still kwai kwai listened to them?

azeoprop
27-01-13, 16:57
Most probably there are some voters who queued on that fateful Friday night at La Fiesta show flat but was unable to secure a 1 bedroom unit there for investment. :rolleyes:

Shanhz
27-01-13, 17:10
pple like me more buay song the 7% stamp duty.

if they are serious about cooling, just make pple pay more cash and take less loan. i'd rather pay 10% more cash than pay 7% stamp duty. wouldn't u?

but this will not cause price to drop becoz devp will not cut discount so much.

Rysk
27-01-13, 17:15
Now sc still kwai kwai listened to them?

Used to be.. but not anymore.. from the last BE results you shld know why..

fiat500
27-01-13, 17:15
but this will not cause price to drop becoz devp will not cut discount so much.
Many people are stuck... can't buy n can't sell unless u willing to pay all the unjustifiable extra taxes.
This is what pissed off many singapore citizens.. :hell-hath-no-fury:

thomastansb
27-01-13, 17:24
I think 2nd property for Singaporeans without restrictions is fair enough. No SSD and normal LTV as long as your income can support. Why can't Singaporeans buy houses in Singapore???? Not our land?

People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.

Although I pro-PAP, I think CM 5, 6 and 7 are bad for Singaporeans. Doesn't favour us at all. I can imagine those on the edge one will definitely vote for WP.

The funny thing is SDA and RP. Their votes < spoilt votes. First time in history.

newbie11
27-01-13, 17:28
So desperate? Citing BE as a reason to remove CM7...
Didn't know Punggol East has so many multiple property owners.
Your point makes sense.. I doubt it has so many investors when u look at demographic

Rosy
27-01-13, 17:29
People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.



I think same treatment to those countries under FTA.

Rosy
27-01-13, 17:31
Your point makes sense.. I doubt it has so many investors when u look at demographic
May have quite abit of people looking to upgrade and wish to keep their hdb.

Ringo33
27-01-13, 17:32
this PAP always like to act blur. The most important thing which they should be focusing on is actually the industrial and commercial property because as rental soar, it will create a direct impact on small businesses and consumers. As WP rightly pointed out Mapletree as one of the big culprit.

On the other hand, they should have also tackle the COE problem. Yes, it is true land is limited we need to encourage more to take public transport, but have the government realize that their transport system is lagging behind and the main cause of the congestion on the road today?

It is mainly because we are have so much more taxi on the road today. - The reason? because we need to provide taxi for immigrants and tourists. And so why should born and bred Singaporeans be made to pay through our nose just to get a normal family sedan?

Looking ahead, Singapore future might not be as bright as many think. The manufacturing sector, particularly electronic is DEAD and there is no more news of FDI bring new technology in this sector. Reason? Our government have priced ourselves out of the market and whatever FTA we have in the past does not give us an edge anymore.

Good luck to this PAP.

august
27-01-13, 17:35
I think 2nd property for Singaporeans without restrictions is fair enough. No SSD and normal LTV as long as your income can support. Why can't Singaporeans buy houses in Singapore???? Not our land?

People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.

Although I pro-PAP, I think CM 5, 6 and 7 are bad for Singaporeans. Doesn't favour us at all. I can imagine those on the edge one will definitely vote for WP.

The funny thing is SDA and RP. Their votes < spoilt votes. First time in history.

you are saying this on the assumption that pty market will not correct.
what the govt and CM do is to tell sporeans the market is peakish, u better have deep pockets if u still want to buy, it is to protect sporeans.

Lovelle
27-01-13, 17:39
Precisely, does this land belongs to pap? Since the only one benefit is pap thru absd and ssd.


Why then swiss.ppl can buy without absd? Now we see the picture and the arrogance of the cm


I think 2nd property for Singaporeans without restrictions is fair enough. No SSD and normal LTV as long as your income can support. Why can't Singaporeans buy houses in Singapore???? Not our land?

People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.
B
Although I pro-PAP, I think CM 5, 6 and 7 are bad for Singaporeans. Doesn't favour us at all. I can imagine those on the edge one will definitely vote for WP.

The funny thing is SDA and RP. Their votes < spoilt votes. First time in history.

sherlock
27-01-13, 17:50
I was ok until CM7 came out... no ABSD for 2nd ppty and 3% for a 3rd ppty is manageable for those with deeper pockets for 7-10% is just to much to stomach.

fiat500
27-01-13, 18:12
you are saying this on the assumption that pty market will not correct.
what the govt and CM do is to tell sporeans the market is peakish, u better have deep pockets if u still want to buy, it is to protect sporeans.
Yes, i do agree having deep pockets are essential..
But that doesn't mean giving away your hard earned $$$ just like that by paying exorbitant taxes to the miw..
Singapore buyers would rather use the $$$ as downpayment for their property.
Make it only 30% ltv for 3rd property n 20% ltv for 4th property,,no more loan for 5th property onwards..
All the extra ssd n absd are senseless for us singaporeans where we can't even invest in our own country!

teddybear
27-01-13, 18:47
Repost from another thread:

HDB upgraders have been seriously impacted by latest cooling measures!

1. Firstly, they want to sell their HDB flats at "good" (read "high") prices to foreigners & PRs. Yet their potential buyers are hit with all the ABSDs, and when they are willing to pay more, the extra money goes into the pocket of Govt rather than the seller!

2. Secondly, they want to buy private properties, but now they are hit with ABSDs and lower LTVs and cannot loan for more than 30 years or 65 years old. Last time 80% LTV, now 60%-40% LTV. I guess they must be very fed up that their dream of owning and living in a private property with amenities to enjoy is fading away plus if they buy they faces even higher risk than without the cooling measures!! You see, on the surface, all the lower LTVs and shorter loans seem to be good for the buyers because it forces the buyers to be more financially stronger, however this is flawed. By forcing buyers to come out with more cash, more money and less loan, they are forcing more buyers to become "marginal buyers" as they have less cash on hand to tie over when the crash comes! CASH on hand as liquidity is very very important, and you should know this if you are old hand in property investment. By all their cooling measures targeting lower and lower LTV and shorter loan period, more owners of private condos become "marginal owners", and more such owners will be in financial distress when the crash comes as they have much less CASH on hand than they will if without the cooling measures!

There are more reasons to be angry due to latest property cooling measures but the above 2 are the most serious killers! :banghead:

teddybear
27-01-13, 18:48
Repost from another thread:

Are HDB upgraders finding private property prices unaffordable? I don't think so. Rather, private property prices become unaffordable to them when:
1) Cash downpayment increased to 25%
2) Loan tenure max 30 years or 65 years old
3) Loan-to-valuation dropped from 80% to 60%

If you impute all the above, you can see that the above 3 can make any property that is initially affordable to them before the CM becomes unaffordable after the CM!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds
The post result of the by-election of Ponggol East did suggest certain things were not "done right' since GE 2011. Lets' us just focus on the rising prices of property.

In trying not to crash the market, the various CMs since GE 2011 were mild ones with the believe that the demand would be met with the large supply few years down the road. The government unestimated the magnitude of investment demand. The result is that prices remain unaffordable even for first timers.

Does the Jan 2013 CM upset more people like upgraders? Looking at it deeper, the answer is 'no'. In the first place, upgraders are finding prices unaffordable to begin with. So the Jan CM (whether temporary or permanent) should be seen as an opportunity for price to soften which means more affordable prices.

To many investors, the Jan CM means game over for a lot of them. It only prevent them from buying more but the CM does not 'affect' them financially. These investors could invest in other instrunments or elsewhere.

The government does appear to make the mistake of not having more effective CM earlier that could have a greater impact on softening prices.

teddybear
27-01-13, 18:50
Repost from another thread:

But there are now serious changes to the housing affordability and hence the Index!
If you include all those new property cooling measures, housing affordability becomes even more unaffordable and the Index should reflect that after all the cooling measures! Furthermore, the risks to buyers become even higher as they have less cash on hand! This is something that has never been reflected in all those index and is even more important than the index itself! Eg. we have retirees buying properties, ZERO job income but lots of cash on hand, so their affordability is ZERO? This just shows the stupid side of that Housing Affordability Index.... :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds
We had discussed housing affordability and Housing Affordability Index many times in this forum so I shall not get into similar discussion in this thread.


Originally Posted by teddybear
Are HDB upgraders finding private property prices unaffordable? I don't think so. Rather, private property prices become unaffordable to them when:
1) Cash downpayment increased to 25%
2) Loan tenure max 30 years or 65 years old
3) Loan-to-valuation dropped from 80% to 60%

If you impute all the above, you can see that the above 3 can make any property that is initially affordable to them before the CM becomes unaffordable after the CM!

azeoprop
27-01-13, 18:55
All their recent policies are made on hindsight based on collected statistics and data analysis.... :doh: Hence, their effects are always a step behind. :tsk-tsk:

teddybear
27-01-13, 18:57
Repost from another thread:

Rising cost of housing?

If because of rising cost of new HDB, indeed it is PAP's fault! (since they form the govt and let new HDB prices run so high).

If because of cost of private housing, should they care? Why should they want to take care of 20% richest people living in private housing or the 5% or so affluent (getting richer) people aspiring to own a private property? Shouldn't they focus their attention to solve the housing problem of HDB flats for the majority of middle and lower income group? :p

And by the way, there is no need for prices to fall. Just look at the policies implemented and people are already boiling. The 90% citizens many owning properties want to sell their properties to foreigners & PRs at higher prices but the cooling measures not only discouraged foreigners and PRs from buying, and when they do buy, the extra money paid by buyer all goes into the Govt's pocket instead of the seller's pocket! :simmering:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wind30
Actually you are not making any sense at all... Did the property prices even fall yet??? If people are angry, how can they be angry over something that has not yet even happened. From the last I checked, the prices is still going up. Common sense will tell you if they are pissed of with anything, it is with the rising cost of housing.

timmy
27-01-13, 19:47
All their recent policies are made on hindsight based on collected statistics and data analysis.... :doh: Hence, their effects are always a step behind. :tsk-tsk:


This I agree fully. My biggest fear is that they unwind the measures too late if interest rate spikes. They may have no wish to destabilize the market, their CM is supposedly to prevent formation of bubbles. But they need to also realise that the CMs have made the market so illiquid and possibly fragile that any external shocks coming from abroad - whether another financial crisis or sharp rise in interest rate ( due to quicker than expected improvement in us economy) may put the last straw on the camel's back. The "well intentions" they have may backfire, if the exit strategies are not carefully calibrated.

timmy
27-01-13, 19:56
This I agree fully. My biggest fear is that they unwind the measures too late if interest rate spikes. They may have no wish to destabilize the market, their CM is supposedly to prevent formation of bubbles. But they need to also realise that the CMs have made the market so illiquid and possibly fragile that any external shocks coming from abroad - whether another financial crisis or sharp rise in interest rate ( due to quicker than expected improvement in us economy) may put the last straw on the camel's back. The "well intentions" they have may backfire, if the exit strategies are not carefully calibrated.

My sincere advice to any gahment people, if any in this forum, please start thinking about how to unwind the restrictive policies. Don't let history repeat itself, by acting too late and trying to adjust imbalances only after a crunch or oversupply happens. :doh:

leesg123
27-01-13, 20:07
Totally agree... I still want to recommend to use China cooling measure if they are really sincere in settling the issues. China government really impressed me with their determination in cooling down the property sector. Housing is the most fundamental things that the government must ensure that the people are able to afford.. To allow PR to buy HDB is the worst decision they can make. PR should not be allow to buy HDB.. If they want to buy, they have change to SC. I am not against PR but HDB should be for Singaporean only.. Let it be old or new... but for people who are sincerely in making Singapore their home.
Then will PR be blamed for driving up pte housing and make it difficult for SC to upgrade?

blackapple
27-01-13, 20:14
I do not think CM7 cost PAP the votes.

It is the cost of living and wrong strategy that cost them the votes. Punggol East is seng kang east. It is the older estate in seng kang. Majority of the voter bought the HDB at 150K to 260K around 1996. Their kids are already adult or in secondary school. There is no need for childcare and school. PAP should focus on cost of living.

I think PAP grass root also report wrong sentiment. That explains the last minutes show face by LHL and other ministers.

Rysk
27-01-13, 20:17
My sincere advice to any gahment people, if any in this forum, please start thinking about how to unwind the restrictive policies. Don't let history repeat itself, by acting too late and trying to adjust imbalances only after a crunch or oversupply happens. :doh:

Oh!! then you better worry even more...
Cos from the history.. our gov unwind it even slower.. Even when ppl advised them, they forever think they are smarter & do not listen.. and in the end, act too late again :banghead:

fiat500
27-01-13, 20:20
I do not think CM7 cost PAP the votes.

It is the cost of living and wrong strategy that cost them the votes. Punggol East is seng kang east. It is the older estate in seng kang. Majority of the voter bought the HDB at 150K to 260K around 1996. Their kids are already adult or in secondary school. There is no need for childcare and school. PAP should focus on cost of living.

I think PAP grass root also report wrong sentiment. That explains the last minutes show face by LHL and other ministers.
Of coz not entirely! But latest cm7 does have a negative impact.
I am sure it plays a part in the downfall...

timmy
27-01-13, 20:36
Oh!! then you better worry even more...
Cos from the history.. our gov unwind it even slower.. Even when ppl advised them, they forever think they are smarter & do not listen.. and in the end, act too late again :banghead:

That's why now they better wake up. Don't song song buah long long until the collapse happens. Correction is ok but collapse is bad for the whole economy.

thomastansb
27-01-13, 21:49
Then people will vote you out if you don't give people a choice. MBT was saying prices will drop in 2010 before GE and tell people don't buy. Now 2013, prices have gone up 20% easily.



you are saying this on the assumption that pty market will not correct.
what the govt and CM do is to tell sporeans the market is peakish, u better have deep pockets if u still want to buy, it is to protect sporeans.

Kelonguni
27-01-13, 21:51
I do not think CM7 cost PAP the votes.

It is the cost of living and wrong strategy that cost them the votes. Punggol East is seng kang east. It is the older estate in seng kang. Majority of the voter bought the HDB at 150K to 260K around 1996. Their kids are already adult or in secondary school. There is no need for childcare and school. PAP should focus on cost of living.

I think PAP grass root also report wrong sentiment. That explains the last minutes show face by LHL and other ministers.

If the residents came in their forties, their children were in their teens, and getting married right about now.

Also, their housing loans about to be satisfied, so what is logically their next step, especially if their combined household incomes are high?

fclim
27-01-13, 23:36
The govt has been focussing on helping the poor and neglected the growing middle class. They had wrongly assumed that the middle class could take care of themselves and forgot these people have aspirations and dreams too. Many of the subsidies are limited to those earning up to $1,500 a month. But, there are families with single income earners with $3k or $4k income per month struggling with living expenses too and do not qualify for any form of subsidy.

I think how middle class Punggol East voted should be a clear signal to the ruling party.

Allthepies
28-01-13, 02:37
hahaha.. I think you still don't know what is happening in Singapore... CM7 come too late... That is the problem.. Even a communist state like China understand that rising housing price will become a national issues. How can Singapore government turn a blind eye to it and let it run away... Singapore should not even allow foreigner to buy our property for investment


:doh: :doh: :doh:
If foreigners cannot buy, we are actually cheapening our only resources for no reason....

Allthepies
28-01-13, 02:55
If they hold another election now elsewhere in another estate, they will also most likely lose it..
Time for them to implement policies to please singapore citizens rather than making us pay more n more unjustifiable tax policies...

Yup time to take the easy way out: 1) remove COE so all Singaporeans can own cars 2) chase all FT home so Singapore can be peaceful and uncrowded once more 3) give all Singaporeans a condo so tat they can all be happy.n:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

ysyap
28-01-13, 05:39
For next GE to be a success for the incumbent, they have to do something drastic to prove to the people that they really listen. They kept saying they listen, they listen, then someone came forward to say, 'public transport cost should be shared so commuters must pay more' and then suddenly COE hit $96k and home prices are climbing up till CM7. Increasing income limit does not solve the problem because prices are climbing faster. May retain income ceiling and prices don't climb is better. Maybe they just listen ONLY. Maybe we are expecting too much! :doh:

Drastic measures include removing COE and giving free medical care for elders in our society. :spliff:

wind30
28-01-13, 06:50
If the residents came in their forties, their children were in their teens, and getting married right about now.

Also, their housing loans about to be satisfied, so what is logically their next step, especially if their combined household incomes are high?

they want to upgrade to condo and the current sky high condo prices is making it very difficult.

The new CM7 hits mulitple property owners the MOST. Upgraders can get back the 7% ABSD as rebate.

I think it is a good deal for most PE residents. They are probably still pissed off that the condo prices are still high.

wind30
28-01-13, 06:52
For every home replacement, Seller A sells SSD, + Seller A turned buyer ABSD, and the seller C to buyer A's SSD, and Buyer B (ABSD) on Seller A's house.

For 1 transaction, a chain of associated transactions needed to take place !!!

The BIG picture:
Seller A pays SSD (assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)
Buyer A pays ABSD (next property)
Buyer B pays ABSD (on A's property)
Seller C pays SSD (sell to A, assuming cleared MOP, no more ASSD)

ToTAL: 2xSSDs and 2xABSDs collected!!!!!!!!!!

Where to find such deals $$ falling from the sky into my pocket?
Can you see the $$$$ staring at miw, cash registers are ringing (4 rings per house replacement)? SCs are the largest group to be milked for this. New Revenue stream or CM. Inflation CONTINUES.

duh... that is assuming that they are multiple property owners. Just google the number of HDB and number of private property you will realise MOST people own just one property.

If you own just one private property and dun speculate, ie buy and sell within 4 years, I think government will not collect any SSD and ABSD.

wind30
28-01-13, 06:56
People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.


Are you sure this is true??? I think it is probably not as FTA only allows those foreigners to be treated like singaporeans. They still have to pay the original 3% stamp duty. I think anything singaporeans kenna FTA people will kenna. Please dun anyhow say.

Shanhz
28-01-13, 07:32
I do not think CM7 cost PAP the votes.

It is the cost of living and wrong strategy that cost them the votes. Punggol East is seng kang east. It is the older estate in seng kang. Majority of the voter bought the HDB at 150K to 260K around 1996. Their kids are already adult or in secondary school. There is no need for childcare and school. PAP should focus on cost of living.

I think PAP grass root also report wrong sentiment. That explains the last minutes show face by LHL and other ministers.

and retirement / healthcare issue. if indeed this is the older estate, those pple already starting to plan for retirement leow. and that means??? getting 2nd ppty.

stl67
28-01-13, 08:36
For next GE to be a success for the incumbent, they have to do something drastic to prove to the people that they really listen. They kept saying they listen, they listen, then someone came forward to say, 'public transport cost should be shared so commuters must pay more' and then suddenly COE hit $96k and home prices are climbing up till CM7. Increasing income limit does not solve the problem because prices are climbing faster. May retain income ceiling and prices don't climb is better. Maybe they just listen ONLY. Maybe we are expecting too much! :doh:

Drastic measures include removing COE and giving free medical care for elders in our society. :spliff:

over listen may become a problem.. just like bringing up my kids, i cannot be overlistening to them right?.. must let them go through some hardship, learn some right skills so that they can survive.. i am sure politicans want to be popular.. by being popular means listen and listen and give in to the populist... all of us would expect goodies after goodies... this kind of policies will not work... so we have to be mindful of what we wish... again back to my analogy of bringing up kids, i also want to pamper them, but am I helping to shape their character?

thomastansb
28-01-13, 08:57
It is in the news. No ABSD for FTA foreigners.

In short, Singaporeans buying 2nd property pay 7% ABSD. Foreigners pay 0%.


http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20111209-315244.html


Are you sure this is true??? I think it is probably not as FTA only allows those foreigners to be treated like singaporeans. They still have to pay the original 3% stamp duty. I think anything singaporeans kenna FTA people will kenna. Please dun anyhow say.

Lovelle
28-01-13, 09:01
It is in the news. No ABSD for FTA foreigners.

In short, Singaporeans buying 2nd property pay 7% ABSD. Foreigners pay 0%.


http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20111209-315244.html


no, foreigners follow singaporean rule. 2nd prop pay 7% onwards. 1st property is non taxable.

minority
28-01-13, 09:04
Let me tell u why pple are pissed. They are pissed that they cannot buy cheap housing! But they want to sell high high then go but cheap cheap. This is not happening so all are pissed.

minority
28-01-13, 09:08
It is in the news. No ABSD for FTA foreigners.

In short, Singaporeans buying 2nd property pay 7% ABSD. Foreigners pay 0%.


http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20111209-315244.html


Singaporean can go buy London or USA. Or those place with FTA sign too! Same applies.

Anyway sgporean better stay out of 2nd prop in singapore. Give the 1st timmer n those who need a place to stay a chance.

minority
28-01-13, 09:11
over listen may become a problem.. just like bringing up my kids, i cannot be overlistening to them right?.. must let them go through some hardship, learn some right skills so that they can survive.. i am sure politicans want to be popular.. by being popular means listen and listen and give in to the populist... all of us would expect goodies after goodies... this kind of policies will not work... so we have to be mindful of what we wish... again back to my analogy of bringing up kids, i also want to pamper them, but am I helping to shape their character?


Something with kids u need to apply hard love. For the better good.

Unfortunately in this situation the parent is competing with a outside with a sweet tune. It's like the teenages days. Wat ever parents says are BS. Friends knows best!

august
28-01-13, 09:22
over listen may become a problem.. just like bringing up my kids, i cannot be overlistening to them right?.. must let them go through some hardship, learn some right skills so that they can survive.. i am sure politicans want to be popular.. by being popular means listen and listen and give in to the populist... all of us would expect goodies after goodies... this kind of policies will not work... so we have to be mindful of what we wish... again back to my analogy of bringing up kids, i also want to pamper them, but am I helping to shape their character?

sorry, but the relationship between a govt and the electorate is unlike that of parents and kids. It is disrespectful and arrogant to imply that the electorate are kids and the parents or govt know best.

Lovelle
28-01-13, 09:46
Singaporean can go buy London or USA. Or those place with FTA sign too! Same applies.

Anyway sgporean better stay out of 2nd prop in singapore. Give the 1st timmer n those who need a place to stay a chance.


nobody stopping 1st timer to own a home. Pls apply for hdb , plenty of them...

stl67
28-01-13, 09:51
sorry, but the relationship between a govt and the electorate is unlike that of parents and kids. It is disrespectful and arrogant to imply that the electorate are kids and the parents or govt know best.

my point is the part on over listening... for eg, the politicians in Italy.. look at them, they want to win the votes.. so what they do, they give-in, over promise.. now the country is in huge debt..

btw, the simple analogy may not fit 100% but did not expect you to straight.. did not mean to be disrepectful..

Lovelle
28-01-13, 10:03
nobody stopping 1st timer to own a home. Pls apply for hdb , EC plenty of them.. but trouble now is, those young 1st timer who are not qualified for both HDB or EC. So these ppl are complaining...


same as above

Doom
28-01-13, 10:25
Govt must focus on People and Family. Not Pets and Party. Ministers blogging about their beloved pets, bringing pets for walkabouts, going all out to catch those cruel to animals . . . better spend the time to make Singaporean lives better.

My Guru the American writer Ernest Hemingway says: "I believe, after experience and observation, that those people who identify themselves with animals, that is, the almost professional lovers of dogs, and other beasts, are capable of greater cruelty to human beings than those who do not identify themselves readily with animals."

So sorry, pet lovers, no offence meant!

Shanhz
28-01-13, 10:32
Govt must focus on People and Family. Not Pets and Party. Ministers blogging about their beloved pets, bringing pets for walkabouts, going all out to catch those cruel to animals . . . better spend the time to make Singaporean lives better.

My Guru the American writer Ernest Hemingway says: "I believe, after experience and observation, that those people who identify themselves with animals, that is, the almost professional lovers of dogs, and other beasts, are capable of greater cruelty to human beings than those who do not identify themselves readily with animals."

So sorry, pet lovers, no offence meant!

exactly!!! i was wondering what the hoo-hah shanmugam and TCJ making about the cats and pets.

minority
28-01-13, 10:35
nobody stopping 1st timer to own a home. Pls apply for hdb , plenty of them...


Wel the noise is people complain cannot afford.. which i feel there are many options. just people expectations are much much higher these days.

Its hard to meet everyone expectations. But I feel those who need a roof should be able to get 1. but might not be ideally what they want.

its still better off than nothing actually.

minority
28-01-13, 10:36
my point is the part on over listening... for eg, the politicians in Italy.. look at them, they want to win the votes.. so what they do, they give-in, over promise.. now the country is in huge debt..

btw, the simple analogy may not fit 100% but did not expect you to straight.. did not mean to be disrepectful..


yes that my worry. over listen. but the electorate also now feel they can black mail the government with the votes to get freebie. What pain comes after becoz of the freebies years later. no 1 cares.

Ilikeu
28-01-13, 10:49
to the TS - every measures make some people happy and some people angry. the gahment sure knows that. the first timer are really happy this time, while the PR is the unhappiest imo.

avo7007
28-01-13, 10:57
so quickly come out with CM 7 for the eelection and what do they get now ?

Seriously ah! You think CM7 cost PAP the SMC?:doh: I think it's the lack of CM10 that costs PAP......:D

Shanhz
28-01-13, 11:25
i think you pple tink too much lah.

it's just simply that people had enough of the elite. since elite also make mistake, might as well choose the girl next door. at least she looks affable and WP definitely have to work harder to maintain and improve their image, as compared to PAP. and most likely she will be full time MP - so they can get her attention better.

eng81157
28-01-13, 11:50
i think you pple tink too much lah.

it's just simply that people had enough of the elite. since elite also make mistake, might as well choose the girl next door. at least she looks affable and WP definitely have to work harder to maintain and improve their image, as compared to PAP. and most likely she will be full time MP - so they can get her attention better.

agree too. the ruling party has just outlived their excuses. train breakdown? COE spiralling out of reach?

chiaberry
28-01-13, 12:08
Phone service also having break downs. What is IDA doing??? :tsk-tsk:

Laguna
28-01-13, 12:27
People cannot upgrade, cannot invest, cannot do anything. On the other hand, certain foreigners like US/Swiss nationality can buy 2nd or 3rd without ABSD. I think it is not fair to Singaporeans.



Countries with FTA with Sg, the citizen of these countries are treated like Sg citizen. ie first property is free of ABSD, second and third property will be ABSD

please get the fact correct before posting. Posting of wrong fact is not just misleading but a reflection of the attitude of the person as well.

On top of these, the number of properties bot by these people is so small.

VS
28-01-13, 12:40
i think you pple tink too much lah.

it's just simply that people had enough of the elite. since elite also make mistake, might as well choose the girl next door. at least she looks affable and WP definitely have to work harder to maintain and improve their image, as compared to PAP. and most likely she will be full time MP - so they can get her attention better.

i agree. You can't expect the doctor to quit to work full time as an MP.

myfirstpc
28-01-13, 12:49
Greed. Multiple income streams, MP+own profession/practice+ board of directors++Independent directors...


i agree. You can't expect the doctor to quit to work full time as an MP.

Shanhz
28-01-13, 13:12
i agree. You can't expect the doctor to quit to work full time as an MP.

well, a certain lawyer did.
but dun tink THIS doctor would.

from another forum:

1) Director & Consultant Surgeon, Capstone Colorectal Surgery Centre
2) Adjunct Assistant Professor, DUKE-NUS Graduate Medical School, Singapore
3) Consultant Surgeon, Department of Colorectal Surgery, Singapore General Hospital (SGH)
4) Visiting Consultant, Department of General Surgery, Changi General Hospital
5) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Molecular Genetics Research Laboratory, SGH
6) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Genomic Health Service, SGH
7) Clinical Lecturer, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore (NUS)
8) Co-Supervisor (PhD Program), Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Science, NUS
9) Adjunct Clinician Scientist, Institute of Bioengineering & Nanotechnology (IBN), A*Star
10) Active in clinical and molecular research and has published widely in both clinical and basic science peer-reviewed journals.
12) Reviewer for the Journal of Cancer Research and Therapeutics as well as Diseases of the Colon and Rectum.
13) Reviewer for the SGH Research Grant
14) Ad-hoc grant reviewer for the NMRC (National Medical Research Council) Grant.
15) Committee Member of the Gastroenterological Society of Singapore (GESS).
16) Council Member of the International Council of Coloproctology
17) Member of the American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons (ASCRS)
18) Commanding Officer (CO) of a Combat Service Support Battalion (CSSB).
19) Committee Member in the SingHealth Sub-committee on Leadership and Succession Planning
20) Executive Committee Member at the Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Resident’s Committee since 2002
21) Member of the Community Emergency Response Team (CERT).
22) Assistant Liaison Officer (Singapore Police Force) for Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Neighborhood Watch Zone since 2002.
23) Parent of 2 kids aged below 10.

qualified? certainly. good MP? not so sure.

howgozit
28-01-13, 14:51
qualified? certainly. good MP? not so sure.

Why not?


Well.... anyway water under the bridge liao...

howgozit
28-01-13, 14:54
It is in the news. No ABSD for FTA foreigners.

In short, Singaporeans buying 2nd property pay 7% ABSD. Foreigners pay 0%.


http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20111209-315244.html

Haha... talk c--k lah, stirring shit.

No information is ok... wrong information not so ok

myfirstpc
28-01-13, 14:55
Can this Doctor even remember anything after 1 month of CCAs?
Distinction on CCA. And certainly, will not be someone I will allow to serve me, whether medical treatment or reviewer or decision making for my interests for any fee. Likely this is a passive contributor to the CCAs except for the professional practice.


well, a certain lawyer did.
but dun tink THIS doctor would.

from another forum:

1) Director & Consultant Surgeon, Capstone Colorectal Surgery Centre
2) Adjunct Assistant Professor, DUKE-NUS Graduate Medical School, Singapore
3) Consultant Surgeon, Department of Colorectal Surgery, Singapore General Hospital (SGH)
4) Visiting Consultant, Department of General Surgery, Changi General Hospital
5) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Molecular Genetics Research Laboratory, SGH
6) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Genomic Health Service, SGH
7) Clinical Lecturer, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore (NUS)
8) Co-Supervisor (PhD Program), Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Science, NUS
9) Adjunct Clinician Scientist, Institute of Bioengineering & Nanotechnology (IBN), A*Star
10) Active in clinical and molecular research and has published widely in both clinical and basic science peer-reviewed journals.
12) Reviewer for the Journal of Cancer Research and Therapeutics as well as Diseases of the Colon and Rectum.
13) Reviewer for the SGH Research Grant
14) Ad-hoc grant reviewer for the NMRC (National Medical Research Council) Grant.
15) Committee Member of the Gastroenterological Society of Singapore (GESS).
16) Council Member of the International Council of Coloproctology
17) Member of the American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons (ASCRS)
18) Commanding Officer (CO) of a Combat Service Support Battalion (CSSB).
19) Committee Member in the SingHealth Sub-committee on Leadership and Succession Planning
20) Executive Committee Member at the Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Resident’s Committee since 2002
21) Member of the Community Emergency Response Team (CERT).
22) Assistant Liaison Officer (Singapore Police Force) for Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Neighborhood Watch Zone since 2002.
23) Parent of 2 kids aged below 10.

qualified? certainly. good MP? not so sure.

eng81157
28-01-13, 14:57
well, a certain lawyer did.
but dun tink THIS doctor would.

from another forum:

1) Director & Consultant Surgeon, Capstone Colorectal Surgery Centre
2) Adjunct Assistant Professor, DUKE-NUS Graduate Medical School, Singapore
3) Consultant Surgeon, Department of Colorectal Surgery, Singapore General Hospital (SGH)
4) Visiting Consultant, Department of General Surgery, Changi General Hospital
5) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Molecular Genetics Research Laboratory, SGH
6) Acting Director, Colorectal Cancer Genomic Health Service, SGH
7) Clinical Lecturer, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore (NUS)
8) Co-Supervisor (PhD Program), Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Science, NUS
9) Adjunct Clinician Scientist, Institute of Bioengineering & Nanotechnology (IBN), A*Star
10) Active in clinical and molecular research and has published widely in both clinical and basic science peer-reviewed journals.
12) Reviewer for the Journal of Cancer Research and Therapeutics as well as Diseases of the Colon and Rectum.
13) Reviewer for the SGH Research Grant
14) Ad-hoc grant reviewer for the NMRC (National Medical Research Council) Grant.
15) Committee Member of the Gastroenterological Society of Singapore (GESS).
16) Council Member of the International Council of Coloproctology
17) Member of the American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons (ASCRS)
18) Commanding Officer (CO) of a Combat Service Support Battalion (CSSB).
19) Committee Member in the SingHealth Sub-committee on Leadership and Succession Planning
20) Executive Committee Member at the Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Resident’s Committee since 2002
21) Member of the Community Emergency Response Team (CERT).
22) Assistant Liaison Officer (Singapore Police Force) for Telok Blangah Dover Crescent Neighborhood Watch Zone since 2002.
23) Parent of 2 kids aged below 10.

qualified? certainly. good MP? not so sure.

i'm surprised no one bothered to dig up on the truth of his place of residence - HDB, i think not :rolleyes:

howgozit
28-01-13, 15:06
Not really true lah.

A lot of people buy cars not because they need to but because they want to.

Why I say that?... because I am one of them suckers too. I pay sky high prices for the COE even though an MRT station is only a 5-10 min walk away and plenty of buses around. What's worse?... I have 2 cars.

In fact most of my neighbours have cars too, none of them really needs it.

I say this not as a brag... more of an admission of my stupidity... not unlike many of my fellow Singaporean motorists.

COE will remain high if the economy is good and Singaporeans remain unnecessarily addicted to our cars.



On the other hand, they should have also tackle the COE problem. Yes, it is true land is limited we need to encourage more to take public transport, but have the government realize that their transport system is lagging behind and the main cause of the congestion on the road today?

It is mainly because we are have so much more taxi on the road today. - The reason? because we need to provide taxi for immigrants and tourists. And so why should born and bred Singaporeans be made to pay through our nose just to get a normal family sedan?

howgozit
28-01-13, 15:07
Can this Doctor even remember anything after 1 month of CCAs?
Distinction on CCA. And certainly, will not be someone I will allow to serve me, whether medical treatment or reviewer or decision making for my interests for any fee. Likely this is a passive contributor to the CCAs except for the professional practice.

Haha...... you assume too many things

howgozit
28-01-13, 15:09
i'm surprised no one bothered to dig up on the truth of his place of residence - HDB, i think not :rolleyes:

Eh?... what is the truth about his place of residence?

Whats the gossip?

Share share leh...

eng81157
28-01-13, 15:19
Eh?... what is the truth about his place of residence?

Whats the gossip?

Share share leh...

all i can share is, NOT hdb ;)

myfirstpc
28-01-13, 15:28
I have been without a car since the COE was implemented. Was driving for 3 years before that happened.
Also, in my office, I am the only joker in the round table without a car! I have gotten over it after all these years. Whenever there is a company function, the junior staff will give me a ride, my skin is now inches' thick after all those years.

Cannot get over the notion of paying so much $$$ to regulators.
Taking a taxi to/fro work only costs $600-$800 per month! Even throw in weekend outings, $1000 /mth all in. Still cheaper than maintaining the car.

Divesting from here, paying $200K to 300K more for PC near MRT is equivalent to taking a taxi for transport for 20 to 25 years from a PC located away from the MRT ! i.e. PC for own stay.



Not really true lah.

A lot of people buy cars not because they need to but because they want to.

Why I say that?... because I am one of them suckers too. I pay sky high prices for the COE even though an MRT station is only a 5-10 min walk away and plenty of buses around. What's worse?... I have 2 cars.

In fact most of my neighbours have cars too, none of them really needs it.

I say this not as a brag... more of an admission of my stupidity... not unlike many of my fellow Singaporean motorists.

COE will remain high if the economy is good and Singaporeans remain unnecessarily addicted to our cars.

proud owner
28-01-13, 15:35
Why not?


Well.... anyway water under the bridge liao...


Correct. Why not

We do not know he is capable or not.
But a lot are prepared to give him a chance


Then why when people want to give WP a chance so many people on this forum question WP party's capabilities?


So I van only conclude that the die hard pap fans are simply Dog eyes see people low

Lovelle
28-01-13, 15:53
in summary, they appointed the wrong guy for the job. the way he run his campaign is half past six. still thinking he has his surgeon job...waving at trees

Lovelle
28-01-13, 15:54
Wel the noise is people complain cannot afford.. which i feel there are many options. just people expectations are much much higher these days.

Its hard to meet everyone expectations. But I feel those who need a roof should be able to get 1. but might not be ideally what they want.

its still better off than nothing actually.

shld then ppl be subsidised for their penthouse at MBS then ?

howgozit
28-01-13, 16:00
shld then ppl be subsidised for their penthouse at MBS then ?

Wow!...MBS got penthouses? I didn't know there were residential accomodation in MBS.

who got subsidised to buy penthouses there?

howgozit
28-01-13, 16:06
He didn't get the job... that's fair and square, the people have spoken.

But why do you say he the wrong guy?

In your opinion are you saying he his the wrong guy because he is a surgeon? Do mean to say there are certain professions that shouldn't be politicians like doctors...

btw what does waving at trees mean? this is the first time I heard such an expression.




in summary, they appointed the wrong guy for the job. the way he run his campaign is half past six. still thinking he has his surgeon job...waving at trees

Lovelle
28-01-13, 16:33
He is a surgeon, save life and heal the sick. Why he want to run a town council and listen to ppl demand for this and that at MPS?

Isnt it better for the society to hv a top surgeon around then waste his skill doin a job similar to managing an estate?

Got ppl say he wave at trees as he was doing his thank you trip

howgozit
28-01-13, 17:17
He is a surgeon, save life and heal the sick. Why he want to run a town council and listen to ppl demand for this and that at MPS?

Isnt it better for the society to hv a top surgeon around then waste his skill doin a job similar to managing an estate?

Got ppl say he wave at trees as he was doing his thank you trip

So you saying he is over-qualified. Either that or you mean he can't handle both duties.

Thanks for enlightening me on the "waving tree" expression...
I guess he very "pai-tan".... don't wave people say "haolian", wave people say waving at tree.

Haha like that I guess he can't win,... yah you are right, he better go back to being a doctor.

rockinsg
28-01-13, 17:48
He is a surgeon, save life and heal the sick. Why he want to run a town council and listen to ppl demand for this and that at MPS?

Isnt it better for the society to hv a top surgeon around then waste his skill doin a job similar to managing an estate?

Got ppl say he wave at trees as he was doing his thank you trip
Like that everyone who takes time off to do mp work is waste?
You next select unemployed, unsuccessful person to be mp next time. Good luck:doh: :doh:

Lovelle
28-01-13, 18:21
I am not saying he not qualified or.over qualified. A lawyer is suitable to be mp as his backgrd can contribute in that mp work.in helping resident. Or some high flying civil.servant.also suitable to these admin work of liasing with stat boards to resolve tc related work...

But we are short of doctors right?
Surgeon

Dragonfly
28-01-13, 18:31
A surgeon can be an MP if he have the heart to serve. I disagree that only lawyers are suitable in politics. Meet the people sessions may have people who can relate their medical problems to the doctors or high medical costs etc.
the above are just examples. Hence, my stand is not just lawyers are qualified or suitable...

howgozit
28-01-13, 19:25
A surgeon can be an MP if he have the heart to serve. I disagree that only lawyers are suitable in politics. Meet the people sessions may have people who can relate their medical problems to the doctors or high medical costs etc.
the above are just examples. Hence, my stand is not just lawyers are qualified or suitable...

I absolutely agree.

Its about whether the person has the heart to serve.

Its understandable if people did not vote for him because they think he has no heart. But l think it would be silly if people did not vote for him just because he is a doctor.

DaytonaSS
28-01-13, 19:46
Its sad to be remindered a great Minister like George Yeo was lost in the last election to be a sacrificial lamb. Now HK employee him to help develop their country. So is Singapore better off now that we have so many so called co-drivers to slap drivers and we have a top "engineer" go help our competition develop their economy.

So many gen Y is such a great critic at judging others , yet ask the question y they have to delicate the best 2 years to serve their nations. Ask the Govt why they dont have this and that. Yet how many really ask themselves what they can do for society. As the saying goes....

ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country

DaytonaSS
28-01-13, 19:51
Its sad to be remindered a great Minister like George Yeo was lost in the last election to be a sacrificial lamb. Now HK employee him to help develop their country. So is Singapore better off now that we have so many so called co-drivers to slap drivers and we have a top "engineer" go help our competition develop their economy.

So many gen Y is such a great critic at judging others , yet ask the question y they have to delicate the best 2 years to serve their nations. Ask the Govt why they dont have this and that. Yet how many really ask themselves what they can do for society. As the saying goes....

ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country

The last form of contribution is pay tax. Income Tax, property tax, stamp duties, COE.

IF one is fuking rich and its doesnt cost a dent in the bank account also then take it easy. IF its a way of transferring some wealth/Funding help to the "real poor", so be it.

minority
28-01-13, 21:16
Ya, it affected the sentiments definitely.
This cm7 is simply too harsh for everyone to stomach..
I am sure the cm7 has affected the election results against p.a.p one way or another..


CM7 or no CM7 .

do good policy or no good policy.

people just want to vent. like it or not. no 1 cares wat u do. Do good is opposition value. no good policy is pap fault.

tats the polarized view today. All wearing colored glasses.

august
28-01-13, 22:32
Its sad to be remindered a great Minister like George Yeo was lost in the last election to be a sacrificial lamb. Now HK employee him to help develop their country. So is Singapore better off now that we have so many so called co-drivers to slap drivers and we have a top "engineer" go help our competition develop their economy.

So many gen Y is such a great critic at judging others , yet ask the question y they have to delicate the best 2 years to serve their nations. Ask the Govt why they dont have this and that. Yet how many really ask themselves what they can do for society. As the saying goes....

ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country

george yeo is a 'great minister'?
personal opinion he has done nothing of note throughout his years as minister. I am glad his first electoral defeat exposes him for what he is - a quitter who chose not to fight on.

DKSG
28-01-13, 22:58
george yeo is a 'great minister'?
personal opinion he has done nothing of note throughout his years as minister. I am glad his first electoral defeat exposes him for what he is - a quitter who chose not to fight on.

And if he now really go HK and coach them how to compete better with us ?!
Hmmm ... the heart element is already BAD! But then, I also hearsay from this forum.

DKSG

minority
28-01-13, 23:04
george yeo is a 'great minister'?
personal opinion he has done nothing of note throughout his years as minister. I am glad his first electoral defeat exposes him for what he is - a quitter who chose not to fight on.


a show a no confidence is voted. he still hang ard people will say think skin no where to go. when he go else where to find a living or so something else folks call him a quitter..

Singaporean are a great critic bunch right.

DKSG
28-01-13, 23:15
a show a no confidence is voted. he still hang ard people will say think skin no where to go. when he go else where to find a living or so something else folks call him a quitter..

Singaporean are a great critic bunch right.

Nicole Seah is still hanging around helping the poor and pooling resources to make the community better by the day. I doubt ANYONE is fit to say that she thick skin leh...

DKSG

minority
28-01-13, 23:16
Nicole Seah is still hanging around helping the poor and pooling resources to make the community better by the day. I doubt ANYONE is fit to say that she thick skin leh...

DKSG


yeah and the Dr pick some leave from a drain all cry its a farce!!!

Lemonlaw
28-01-13, 23:19
Nicole Seah is still hanging around helping the poor and pooling resources to make the community better by the day. I doubt ANYONE is fit to say that she thick skin leh...

DKSG

Bro, u met Nicole Seah recently? As a newbie in politics, she speaks with emotion and have the ability to influence.

DKSG
28-01-13, 23:24
Bro, u met Nicole Seah recently? As a newbie in politics, she speaks with emotion and have the ability to influence.

If I move to a Marine Parade PC, 50% of the reason will be to support her cause!

DKSG

Allthepies
29-01-13, 03:53
Nicole Seah is still hanging around helping the poor and pooling resources to make the community better by the day. I doubt ANYONE is fit to say that she thick skin leh...

DKSG

I hate to disagree with you but nicole Seah is without any doubt the real actress. Seriously do u all really believe in that story which she cried as she narrate it? :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

eng81157
29-01-13, 07:17
I hate to disagree with you but nicole Seah is without any doubt the real actress. Seriously do u all really believe in that story which she cried as she narrate it? :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:


real actress vs airhead-who-got-in-because-husband-works-in-PMO

give me an actress anytime.:doh: :doh:

Shanhz
29-01-13, 07:48
Not really true lah.

A lot of people buy cars not because they need to but because they want to.

Why I say that?... because I am one of them suckers too. I pay sky high prices for the COE even though an MRT station is only a 5-10 min walk away and plenty of buses around. What's worse?... I have 2 cars.

In fact most of my neighbours have cars too, none of them really needs it.

I say this not as a brag... more of an admission of my stupidity... not unlike many of my fellow Singaporean motorists.

COE will remain high if the economy is good and Singaporeans remain unnecessarily addicted to our cars.

this statement i agree. but also, "need" and "good to have" is just a thin line.

i dun "need" a car because i can walk my girl to school (or wait for the freaking crowded bus).. school is just 3 bus stops away.

i dun "need" a car because it takes me about 1.5 hours to get to wk by public transport while it takes me 1 hr to drive.

i dun "need" a car because i can get home in time to fetch my kid from school. just need to knock off extra half an hour earlier from work.

the car.. saves me a lot of time.

of coz, "what" car is the next question to ask. do you need a 200k car when a 40k old altis will do. u dun hear me complaining abt COE becoz i will settle for the old car.

Shanhz
29-01-13, 07:51
Why not?

Well.... anyway water under the bridge liao...

yes, why not?

but i believe the young girl has a higher probability of being able to concentrate on serving the residents. i dun expect her to fight for my rights in parliament.

yah, water under the bridge anyway.

Shanhz
29-01-13, 07:52
i'm surprised no one bothered to dig up on the truth of his place of residence - HDB, i think not :rolleyes:

i think yes lah. this kind of thing cannot bluff one. he will have neighbours who will be doing CSI and happily contribute to TRE

whether he stays in HDB or condo is not the point. the point is.. his current salary just doesn't allow him to get close to the ground. period.

eng81157
29-01-13, 07:55
i think yes lah. this kind of thing cannot bluff one. he will have neighbours who will be doing CSI and happily contribute to TRE

whether he stays in HDB or condo is not the point. the point is.. his current salary just doesn't allow him to get close to the ground. period.

i have had coffee with him before ;)

Shanhz
29-01-13, 07:57
Its sad to be remindered a great Minister like George Yeo was lost in the last election to be a sacrificial lamb. Now HK employee him to help develop their country. So is Singapore better off now that we have so many so called co-drivers to slap drivers and we have a top "engineer" go help our competition develop their economy.

So many gen Y is such a great critic at judging others , yet ask the question y they have to delicate the best 2 years to serve their nations. Ask the Govt why they dont have this and that. Yet how many really ask themselves what they can do for society. As the saying goes....

ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country

let's not use george yeo as an example. he was paid to help HK. why din sgp govt pay him to do it here instead? becoz he wasn't good enuff? so he is good enuff for HK, but not good enuff for sgp? if anything, he is a traitor, and is worth sacrificing.

(caveat: i actually like him alot. and i dun have any bad taste about him helping HK. everybody needs to make money. but saying he was sacrificed... probably more correct to say that PAP willingly sacrificed him)

Shanhz
29-01-13, 07:59
real actress vs airhead-who-got-in-because-husband-works-in-PMO

give me an actress anytime.:doh: :doh:

yah man. at least nicole seah fought a real war.

hey.. ain't all politicians actors anyway?

Shanhz
29-01-13, 08:10
i have had coffee with him before ;)

oooh... are you going to TRE him? :D

howgozit
29-01-13, 08:46
Nicole Seah is still hanging around helping the poor and pooling resources to make the community better by the day. I doubt ANYONE is fit to say that she thick skin leh...

DKSG

Please do not confuse charitable acts with political ability.

I wonder if you have ever been to a MPS before, whether to observe or help out.

It is not just about helping the poor..... etc Give you a few examples......

If you are an MP and a resident comes to you with 10 parking fines asking you to rescind it.... what do you do?

A landed property owner comes to you and asks that you remove a double yellow line outside his house so that he can park his cars there... what do you do?

I assure you currently the "poor" are very well taken care of. They are not the people that are disatisfied with the ruling party.

The people who are unhappy are the wannabes not the have-nots.

howgozit
29-01-13, 08:47
Btw good on Nicole Seah if she is continuing her work on the less fortunate

Well done

Lovelle
29-01-13, 08:50
http://therealsingapore.com/content/channel-8-report-shows-dr-koh-waving-no-one-during-his-thank-you-parade

Oscar winner

Shanhz
29-01-13, 08:59
http://therealsingapore.com/content/channel-8-report-shows-dr-koh-waving-no-one-during-his-thank-you-parade

Oscar winner

sure looks like go thru' motion.
compare to the WP lorry which was mopped by supporters.

i will speculate that many (not all) PAP voters vote out of duty - as civil servants, grassroots, businessmen, etc. since they are voting out of duty, you dun expect them to passionately come out on the streets to wave to him.

howgozit
29-01-13, 09:09
Bro, u met Nicole Seah recently? As a newbie in politics, she speaks with emotion and have the ability to influence.

She is a really sweet person..... slimmer in person than on TV.

Passionate and committed. Real decent human being.

A bit emotional at times

howgozit
29-01-13, 09:12
sure looks like go thru' motion.
compare to the WP lorry which was mopped by supporters.

i will speculate that many (not all) PAP voters vote out of duty - as civil servants, grassroots, businessmen, etc. since they are voting out of duty, you dun expect them to passionately come out on the streets to wave to him.

I pity Dr Koh.

If he didn't do this, you would have said he is a sore loser.

He really can't win hor, lose already also kena suan by you.... haha

Lovelle
29-01-13, 09:20
dr Koh must be sad. Maybe he doesn't want to contest but there PAP don't have anymore talent they can send.

remember, PM lee say getting harder to attract talent to join PAP.

howgozit
29-01-13, 09:42
dr Koh must be sad. Maybe he doesn't want to contest but there PAP don't have anymore talent they can send.

remember, PM lee say getting harder to attract talent to join PAP.

Yah lor, join PAP sure kena suan jialat jialat.... do this cannot, do that also cannot.... win also cannot, lose also cannot.... who wants to join?

Shanhz
29-01-13, 09:51
I pity Dr Koh.

If he didn't do this, you would have said he is a sore loser.

He really can't win hor, lose already also kena suan by you.... haha

yes i agree. WP support is really becoming cultish.. and the in-thing. not at all healthy for the nation, frankly speaking. it is becoz after being suppressed for so many years under the old man, now that the pple are liberated, they are blindly following the alternative. this is what you get after suppression - pple will rebel. not saying who is right or wrong, diff tack for different era.

PAP is now stuck. they really do have a problem attracting real talents. but if you read LKY's books, you will see that he emphasises on the gene pool theory, that's why they only go for elite. if they adopt a upper house and lower house type of policy - start to recruit more down to earth pple as MPs, to be led by good ministers.. i think pple will start to take more notice of them. once they get rid of the "ivory tower" image, votes will largely swing in their favour.

radha08
29-01-13, 10:04
yesterday i passed buy raffles institution...it looked like a university no a sec school...:eek:...no wonder all the cream of the crop talent come from there:doh:

Shanhz
29-01-13, 10:05
yesterday i passed buy raffles institution...it looked like a university no a sec school...:eek:...no wonder all the cream of the crop talent come from there:doh:

FYI bro, fr fengshui perspective, bishan is good land. that's why they flourish there.

eng81157
29-01-13, 10:08
yes i agree. WP support is really becoming cultish.. and the in-thing. not at all healthy for the nation, frankly speaking. it is becoz after being suppressed for so many years under the old man, now that the pple are liberated, they are blindly following the alternative. this is what you get after suppression - pple will rebel. not saying who is right or wrong, diff tack for different era.

PAP is now stuck. they really do have a problem attracting real talents. but if you read LKY's books, you will see that he emphasises on the gene pool theory, that's why they only go for elite. if they adopt a upper house and lower house type of policy - start to recruit more down to earth pple as MPs, to be led by good ministers.. i think pple will start to take more notice of them. once they get rid of the "ivory tower" image, votes will largely swing in their favour.

sorry, but i don't see PAP recruiting 'down-to-earth-type' of candidates. i still can't forget Generalismmo Kee-Chiu's gaffes - army having a free hand to spend and lecture on the LanFang republic ('cuse me, Lan Kwai Fang izzit?)

when our ministers come from a small cluster of schools - RI, ACS, Catholic High, you wonder if they ever mixed with students in normal streams, ITE folks or mortals that experience genunine hardships.

Shanhz
29-01-13, 10:39
when our ministers come from a small cluster of schools - RI, ACS, Catholic High, you wonder if they ever mixed with students in normal streams, ITE folks or mortals that experience genunine hardships.

bro, they supposed to have gone thru army, mix with everyone... oops .i forget. they usually disrupt and go overseas. come back straightaway 2 bar.

howgozit
29-01-13, 11:01
FYI bro, fr fengshui perspective, bishan is good land. that's why they flourish there.

I don't think it is Fengshui lah, Raffles has always been the top school at every location

howgozit
29-01-13, 11:05
yesterday i passed buy raffles institution...it looked like a university no a sec school...:eek:...no wonder all the cream of the crop talent come from there:doh:

It is not about the size of the school or the school faclities.

If it was, then ITE would be the best school in Singapore

minority
29-01-13, 11:07
yesterday i passed buy raffles institution...it looked like a university no a sec school...:eek:...no wonder all the cream of the crop talent come from there:doh:


Maybe never occurred that they work harder to up keep the image?

minority
29-01-13, 11:12
sorry, but i don't see PAP recruiting 'down-to-earth-type' of candidates. i still can't forget Generalismmo Kee-Chiu's gaffes - army having a free hand to spend and lecture on the LanFang republic ('cuse me, Lan Kwai Fang izzit?)

when our ministers come from a small cluster of schools - RI, ACS, Catholic High, you wonder if they ever mixed with students in normal streams, ITE folks or mortals that experience genunine hardships.

In the age of Facebook , twitter and linking seems like everyone must see everyone background and poke it.

As long u are different from me I brand u as elite and poke u. This almost like the china culture revolution. blindly branding becoz they are different. To me its no diff from being a racist or a start fascism.

So is the city harvest pastor a elite? hmmm perhaps lets not dwell there.

minority
29-01-13, 11:13
It is not about the size of the school or the school faclities.

If it was, then ITE would be the best school in Singapore

interesting right.. everyone like a slum dog millionaire story. But how many want to be the slum dog itself? ;)

howgozit
29-01-13, 11:13
bro, they supposed to have gone thru army, mix with everyone... oops .i forget. they usually disrupt and go overseas. come back straightaway 2 bar.

I don't know why people begrudge those who studied at elite schools.

If your children can qualify for RI or RGS, would you deny them the chance?

Just because many are unhappy with the ruling party they take it out on such schools..... Singaporeans are so immature.

The truth us that education is a great leveller of playing field. Our elite schools are a fine example of that.

Its true that those who are willing to spend more money/time on their kids will have an advantage in education, however that can only bring you so far. To be in these elite schools, you need that something extra ...... either in intelligence or effort

DaytonaSS
29-01-13, 11:18
george yeo is a 'great minister'?
personal opinion he has done nothing of note throughout his years as minister. I am glad his first electoral defeat exposes him for what he is - a quitter who chose not to fight on.

maybe i give u a analogy. You married the love of your life. For 20 odds years you give your best to her. All your life you slog your life and surround your life around her.

One fine day, she meet someone, a young handsome guy and decided you are no long the best inspite of all the things you have sacrificed. She screws with him and no longer you alone.

So he decides to walk away, feeling the biggest betrayal in his life. Asking himself , is my all not enough? Havnt i given my all and y do i deserve this?

Yet they are people whom say, y u give up, u should try to win her back! YOu are loser, a quitter!

gn108
29-01-13, 11:20
Education is the greatest leveller - I agree.
But over the years the education playing field has tilted - with the Gifted Prog/IP Programme, use of IT and tuition.

It's not that all these weren't present before, but the severity of doing without (say tuition) disadvantages the unsuccessful, which are invariably the less rich.

So the rich-poor divide continues via the Education Leveller.



I don't know why people begrudge those who studied at elite schools.

If your children can qualify for RI or RGS, would you deny them the chance?

Just because many are unhappy with the ruling party they take it out on such schools..... Singaporeans are so immature.

The truth us that education is a great leveller of playing field. Our elite schools are a fine example of that.

Its true that those who are willing to spend more money/time on their kids will have an advantage in education, however that can only bring you so far. To be in these elite schools, you need that something extra ...... either in intelligence or effort

DaytonaSS
29-01-13, 11:27
Education is the greatest leveller - I agree.
But over the years the education playing field has tilted - with the Gifted Prog/IP Programme, use of IT and tuition.

It's not that all these weren't present before, but the severity of doing without (say tuition) disadvantages the unsuccessful, which are invariably the less rich.

So the rich-poor divide continues via the Education Leveller.

i think the rich-poor divde is not so much education. Its more of the attitude towards life. Although many people eat same brand of rice, they all grow up differently. Given a same text book, y is the grade different?

Attitude determines the Altitude

Shanhz
29-01-13, 11:28
I don't know why people begrudge those who studied at elite schools.

If your children can qualify for RI or RGS, would you deny them the chance?

Just because many are unhappy with the ruling party they take it out on such schools..... Singaporeans are so immature.

The truth us that education is a great leveller of playing field. Our elite schools are a fine example of that.

Its true that those who are willing to spend more money/time on their kids will have an advantage in education, however that can only bring you so far. To be in these elite schools, you need that something extra ...... either in intelligence or effort

aiya, those from elite school can also be down to earth (i also from one la). it is not against the elite per-say.

the greater problem is that there is too much in-breeding. without a wider net, groupthink becomes prevalent. i think he is right, he thinks i am right, so policy must be right also? somemore, grassroots dun dare to say anything to offend the minister, civil servants down the ranks think something wrong with policy paper also diam diam talk amongst themselves (we see this in army all the time), end up all feedback is good feedback. that is a systemic problem, i believe if WP become garmen, same same also. every body want to "sa-kar", it is human.

how wide range of ideas can a group of doctors/generals/lawyers and civil servants come up with? don't u think there will be groupthink? this is organisational structure.. study this one already can get PhD leow. i am surprised so many doctors inside dun realise this. and keep bringing in more doctors.

cnud
29-01-13, 11:32
The White Paper is out!!

http://202.157.171.46/whitepaper/downloads/population-white-paper.pdf

howgozit
29-01-13, 11:33
Deleted......

Shanhz
29-01-13, 11:37
i quote another example: those who have young kids, aren't you always amazed by their comments? sometimes they see things that we don't. and they can be correct in their perspective too.

a group of policy makers must have diversity. when the National Conversation is being filled by pple from PAP, PA, grassroots, etc, in itself there is already group think. how much effort has the ruling party made to include diversity (i assume not, i may be wrong).

different spectrums of society see things differently. if there is good effort to be inclusive, and in an un-biased way, then i think we will have great success in charting the next phase of development.

in policy making, the opinions of the "N" level grad is as important as the doctor and lawyer. i am not sure if that is being practised in our garmen.

eng81157
29-01-13, 12:16
In the age of Facebook , twitter and linking seems like everyone must see everyone background and poke it.

As long u are different from me I brand u as elite and poke u. This almost like the china culture revolution. blindly branding becoz they are different. To me its no diff from being a racist or a start fascism.

So is the city harvest pastor a elite? hmmm perhaps lets not dwell there.

what on earth are you rambling about?! we talk about politicians having limited contact with heartlanders and u talk about city harvest pastor?!

fail logic :doh: :doh:

minority
29-01-13, 12:28
what on earth are you rambling about?! we talk about politicians having limited contact with heartlanders and u talk about city harvest pastor?!

fail logic :doh: :doh:


Well thats a Elite too. Or ur myopic eyesight fail u?

eng81157
29-01-13, 12:30
Well thats a Elite too. Or ur myopic eyesight fail u?

and how does that bolster your argument?!

learn to spell, learn to process logic :doh: :doh:

howgozit
29-01-13, 12:37
i quote another example: those who have young kids, aren't you always amazed by their comments? sometimes they see things that we don't. and they can be correct in their perspective too.

a group of policy makers must have diversity. when the National Conversation is being filled by pple from PAP, PA, grassroots, etc, in itself there is already group think. how much effort has the ruling party made to include diversity (i assume not, i may be wrong).

different spectrums of society see things differently. if there is good effort to be inclusive, and in an un-biased way, then i think we will have great success in charting the next phase of development.

in policy making, the opinions of the "N" level grad is as important as the doctor and lawyer. i am not sure if that is being practised in our garmen.

Totally agree....

Diverse views must be heard.

The role of the MP is to represent that view.

But you see, your MP needn't be like you to represent your view. He needn't be an N level graduate to represent an N level graduate's view.

He needs to be intelligent and capable in order to convey your concerns and grievances in the parliament eloquently. Don't vote for him if you think he can do the job but don't discriminate him just because the person is a doctor.

The thing is, if it was reversed and the WP candidate was a doctor, this issue of suitability due to profession would not be an issue. You see.... how silly it is to say not to vote for a person because he is a doctor

teddybear
29-01-13, 12:42
Can't stand the education policies nowsdays.

1 P3 GEP exams determine that a student can enter the top-most IP secondary school via DSA (before even their PSLE exam results are out) all the way to top-most JC without needing to compete using O'level results!
yes, that is it, 1 P3 screening exam do well and PSLE and O-levels all can forget can stillget into top-most secondary school and JC unconditionally!

Is that the something extra you need to be in these elite schools? :banghead:
Just hot-house your kids for 3 years to get into GEP and that is enough!


Education is the greatest leveller - I agree.
But over the years the education playing field has tilted - with the Gifted Prog/IP Programme, use of IT and tuition.

It's not that all these weren't present before, but the severity of doing without (say tuition) disadvantages the unsuccessful, which are invariably the less rich.

So the rich-poor divide continues via the Education Leveller.


I don't know why people begrudge those who studied at elite schools.

If your children can qualify for RI or RGS, would you deny them the chance?

Just because many are unhappy with the ruling party they take it out on such schools..... Singaporeans are so immature.

The truth us that education is a great leveller of playing field. Our elite schools are a fine example of that.

Its true that those who are willing to spend more money/time on their kids will have an advantage in education, however that can only bring you so far. To be in these elite schools, you need that something extra ...... either in intelligence or effort

Shanhz
29-01-13, 12:54
He needs to be intelligent and capable in order to convey your concerns and grievances in the parliament eloquently. Don't vote for him if you think he can do the job but don't discriminate him just because the person is a doctor.

The thing is, if it was reversed and the WP candidate was a doctor, this issue of suitability due to profession would not be an issue. You see.... how silly it is to say not to vote for a person because he is a doctor

let's just say that one has to toe party lines.

just like we all welcome chen show mao in WP because he can offer alternative views as an intelligent lawyer (sorry, i tink he din offer much though). but if he is in PAP, he will be just another lawyer who will toe the party line.

PAP has enough doctors, one more doctor doesn't change their view any much more. again, this comes back to group think.

i am not for any party. if PAP can welcome, engage and embrace diversity well enough, i will be supporting them strongly. they have done well, and should be able to continue doing well.

howgozit
29-01-13, 12:58
Can't stand the education policies nowsdays.

1 P3 GEP exams determine that a student can enter the top-most IP secondary school via DSA (before even their PSLE exam results are out) all the way to top-most JC without needing to compete using O'level results!
yes, that is it, 1 P3 screening exam do well and PSLE and O-levels all can forget can stillget into top-most secondary school and JC unconditionally!

Is that the something extra you need to be in these elite schools? :banghead:
Just hot-house your kids for 3 years to get into GEP and that is enough!

Haha... well if you have to hothouse to get into GEP, then you don't really deserve to be there.

But if you somehow managed to worm your way in despite not being truly gifted, then the system will weed you out. The mathematics is simply too rigorous for just an above average student to survive there. The thingst hey do there are so out of syllabus that you can't even hire a tuition teacher to teach or even follow.

The DSA path for GEP students is to me the best thing of the scheme.

Btw, it is not automatic... GEP kids to qualify have to show reasonable results in their GEP exams (different schools have different cut-offs) btw, they GEP exams are toughet than mainstream exams. They also sit for the GAT like everyone else..

Why l say it is good is because some kids with exceptional talents in a certain subject may barely pass in another, these kids will get ignored bcoz their PSLE scores are affected by their weaker subjects. But DSA gives them a chance to get into a good school.

But when l say exceptional it doesnt mean above averag or good... it means way way above good.

minority
29-01-13, 13:05
and how does that bolster your argument?!

learn to spell, learn to process logic :doh: :doh:


Grow a brain maybe ur logic will improve.

eng81157
29-01-13, 13:05
Haha... well if you have to hothouse to get into GEP, then you don't really deserve to be there.

But if you somehow managed to worm your way in despite not being truly gifted, then the system will weed you out. The mathematics is simply too rigorous for just an above average student to survive there. The thingst hey do there are so out of syllabus that you can't even hire a tuition teacher to teach or even follow.

The DSA path for GEP students is to me the best thing of the scheme.

Btw, it is not automatic... GEP kids to qualify have to show reasonable results in their GEP exams (different schools have different cut-offs) btw, they GEP exams are toughet than mainstream exams. They also sit for the GAT like everyone else..

Why l say it is good is because some kids with exceptional talents in a certain subject may barely pass in another, these kids will get ignored bcoz their PSLE scores are affected by their weaker subjects. But DSA gives them a chance to get into a good school.

But when l say exceptional it doesnt mean above averag or good... it means way way above good.

sigh, me pass the first test but fail the second hurdle......or else, i could be KEE CHIU!!!! :D :D

Dragonfly
29-01-13, 15:21
Totally agree....

Diverse views must be heard.

The role of the MP is to represent that view.

But you see, your MP needn't be like you to represent your view. He needn't be an N level graduate to represent an N level graduate's view.

He needs to be intelligent and capable in order to convey your concerns and grievances in the parliament eloquently. Don't vote for him if you think he can do the job but don't discriminate him just because the person is a doctor.

The thing is, if it was reversed and the WP candidate was a doctor, this issue of suitability due to profession would not be an issue. You see.... how silly it is to say not to vote for a person because he is a doctor

Fully agree with you.
If PAP have a candidate who is a doctor or lawyer, we would think they are using 'elite' and they cannot understand the people well.
If Opposition have doctor or lawyer, we would think they are capable of attracting the elite and it is worth our vote?
Anyway, if voters really want an ordinary folk to be an MP, a taxi driver or hawker with primary school education 'know' and 'in touch' with the ground people well, do voters want to vote for him?

Lovelle
29-01-13, 15:28
ok, we are not discriminating doctor. Just felt his talent should not be wasted in such a work like MP.

People will feel , hey he is 0.01% (top surgeon) in the country. Why must he be doing town council work ?

he is serving people in his job already which he better use his talent.

similarly, asking a Pilot to be a MP.... okay , pilot not a good example because airline is sinking industry....:confused:

taggy
29-01-13, 15:30
Anyway, if voters really want an ordinary folk to be an MP, a taxi driver or hawker with primary school education 'know' and 'in touch' with the ground people well, do voters want to vote for him?
come on, i think most are voting for the party more than voting for the candidate... i feel regardless who pap/wp sent, the result will be more or less the same...

Cupcakes
29-01-13, 16:47
deleted....

Cupcakes
29-01-13, 16:51
if only PR or CS status is so easily obtainable in other country. Let those want to leave, leave and those who want to come in and stay to stay.

minority
29-01-13, 17:02
Fully agree with you.
If PAP have a candidate who is a doctor or lawyer, we would think they are using 'elite' and they cannot understand the people well.
If Opposition have doctor or lawyer, we would think they are capable of attracting the elite and it is worth our vote?
Anyway, if voters really want an ordinary folk to be an MP, a taxi driver or hawker with primary school education 'know' and 'in touch' with the ground people well, do voters want to vote for him?


no one cares. feel in touch can liao. things dont work out then KPKB lor.. anyway anything for now dont work out always the ruling party fault anyway. the new comers oppositions have a free ride pass.

howgozit
29-01-13, 17:16
ok, we are not discriminating doctor. Just felt his talent should not be wasted in such a work like MP.

People will feel , hey he is 0.01% (top surgeon) in the country. Why must he be doing town council work ?

he is serving people in his job already which he better use his talent.

similarly, asking a Pilot to be a MP.... okay , pilot not a good example because airline is sinking industry....:confused:

I see your point.

But since you agree he is a "talent", maybe we should let him decide on what he does with his talent. Perhaps he felt that his talent can be more useful to more people as a politician rather than a surgeon.

Anyway, being an MP does not stop him from being a doctor... Tan Cheng Bock has been doing both jobs for years. Being a minister... well that's another thing altogether.

Cupcakes
29-01-13, 17:23
no one cares. feel in touch can liao. things dont work out then KPKB lor.. anyway anything for now dont work out always the ruling party fault anyway. the new comers oppositions have a free ride pass. free pass no free pass, they r still paid in mio. No difference.

teddybear
29-01-13, 18:22
I totally disagree. I am old enough to see many average Jone has managed to get in and yet they are still ok with GEP exam la..so DSA is flawed la because getting 80% is really quite common in GEP classes.

In RI, there are about 200 GEP kids already and not saying other top schools yet.. so, DSA is very flawed as they let these kids freeway to get in la.. :tongue3:

Already, there are many schools provide free training/enrichment/maths olympaid/NSW etc.. to selected kids (normally top few classes). It's no surprised that many kids in "elite schools (NY & ACS etc..)" are selected as compared to other schools since their schools provides additional enrichment classless.

Many of them told me that there is no way their kids can get in if they are not 'trained'.

They used to select <0.3% (< 50 students) per year but don't know when increase like siow to select almost 600 kids now! Tell me there are really so many kids are much gifted than before? give me a break la considering there are more kids previously than now.:tongue3:



Haha... well if you have to hothouse to get into GEP, then you don't really deserve to be there.

But if you somehow managed to worm your way in despite not being truly gifted, then the system will weed you out. The mathematics is simply too rigorous for just an above average student to survive there. The thingst hey do there are so out of syllabus that you can't even hire a tuition teacher to teach or even follow.

The DSA path for GEP students is to me the best thing of the scheme.

Btw, it is not automatic... GEP kids to qualify have to show reasonable results in their GEP exams (different schools have different cut-offs) btw, they GEP exams are toughet than mainstream exams. They also sit for the GAT like everyone else..

Why l say it is good is because some kids with exceptional talents in a certain subject may barely pass in another, these kids will get ignored bcoz their PSLE scores are affected by their weaker subjects. But DSA gives them a chance to get into a good school.

But when l say exceptional it doesnt mean above averag or good... it means way way above good.

howgozit
29-01-13, 19:18
There are 2 issues here, one is GEP the other is DSA.

If students who are not worthy get slipped into it because of "secret training" then the fault lies in the robustness of the testing rather than the fault of the program itself.

Yes, GEP originally started with 0.5% but has risen to 1% in recent years (other countries allocate up to 5% of the cohort) this is simply due to budget constraints. In addition, the falling birth rates also required an increase in percentage to keep up the numbers.

Whether GEP is flawed or not is debatable, but for completeness of an education system, I believe there must be something to cater for the few solitary peaks of giftedness.

I think probably only in Singapore that people consider it to be prestigious and sought to be in GEP. Kids and parents in the USA are probably more proud if their kids are gifted athletes.

Your "average joe" friends' kids who easily get 80% or more in their GEP exams are perhaps truly gifted but you are not giving them enough credit.

howgozit
29-01-13, 19:28
For DSA,

DSA entry for GEP students is not automatic.

There are quite a few that are not accepted into the school of their choice after going though the DSA process.

While RGS may have a higher cut-off for PSLE scores, they may have a lower cut-off for the GAT scores. These means an academically weaker student may be accepted into RGS but not Nanyang for example.

However, for those who do not make the cut at DSA, a good proportion of them still make it there on the strength of their PSLE results.

teddybear
29-01-13, 19:59
You talk so much but you still haven't address the unfairness of GEP: i.e. can DSA into IP secondary and JC based on just 1 P3 GEP screening exam without PSLE results and O-level results (and we know all IP Sec are the top-most Sec and JCs) :tongue3:

Didn't get into school of their choice? They still get into their 2nd choice top IP Sec & JC right? :doh:


For DSA,

DSA entry for GEP students is not automatic.

There are quite a few that are not accepted into the school of their choice after going though the DSA process.

While RGS may have a higher cut-off for PSLE scores, they may have a lower cut-off for the GAT scores. These means an academically weaker student may be accepted into RGS but not Nanyang for example.

However, for those who do not make the cut at DSA, a good proportion of them still make it there on the strength of their PSLE results.

howgozit
29-01-13, 20:24
You talk so much but you still haven't address the unfairness of GEP: i.e. can DSA into IP secondary and JC based on just 1 P3 GEP screening exam without PSLE results and O-level results (and we know all IP Sec are the top-most Sec and JCs) :tongue3:

Didn't get into school of their choice? They still get into their 2nd choice top IP Sec & JC right? :doh:

What is there to address?

The so called "top schools" deem them suitable through their selection process. These schools decide not MOE, MOE facilitates. How is that unfair? I think it is good that the school has some leeway to decide who they want.

You mean the selection into these schools should be purely through the PSLE scores?...

You see the flaw with the PSLE score is that an exceptionally gifted student in mathematics may not be able to make it to a suitable school if he is weak in his Chinese. DSA allows an avenue.

Yes you are right, they may not get a school of their choice but usually they are offered other choices. What's wrong with that? They choose the schools but the schools also choose them.

DC33_2008
29-01-13, 20:30
If you look at the outcome of the last two by-elections, there may be more people joining WP as it is easier to become MP. On the other hand, fewer high level people may want to come forward as PAP candidate as there is no more guarantee. Did you observe the smile on the face of Dr Koh's wife when he was defeated - a sign of relief.

teddybear
29-01-13, 20:49
Wrongly, used to be only 0.25% when GEP started. :rolleyes:


There are 2 issues here, one is GEP the other is DSA.

If students who are not worthy get slipped into it because of "secret training" then the fault lies in the robustness of the testing rather than the fault of the program itself.

Yes, GEP originally started with 0.5% but has risen to 1% in recent years (other countries allocate up to 5% of the cohort) this is simply due to budget constraints. In addition, the falling birth rates also required an increase in percentage to keep up the numbers.

Whether GEP is flawed or not is debatable, but for completeness of an education system, I believe there must be something to cater for the few solitary peaks of giftedness.

I think probably only in Singapore that people consider it to be prestigious and sought to be in GEP. Kids and parents in the USA are probably more proud if their kids are gifted athletes.

Your "average joe" friends' kids who easily get 80% or more in their GEP exams are perhaps truly gifted but you are not giving them enough credit.

teddybear
29-01-13, 21:05
duplication


There are 2 issues here, one is GEP the other is DSA.

If students who are not worthy get slipped into it because of "secret training" then the fault lies in the robustness of the testing rather than the fault of the program itself.

Yes, GEP originally started with 0.5% but has risen to 1% in recent years (other countries allocate up to 5% of the cohort) this is simply due to budget constraints. In addition, the falling birth rates also required an increase in percentage to keep up the numbers.

Whether GEP is flawed or not is debatable, but for completeness of an education system, I believe there must be something to cater for the few solitary peaks of giftedness.

I think probably only in Singapore that people consider it to be prestigious and sought to be in GEP. Kids and parents in the USA are probably more proud if their kids are gifted athletes.

Your "average joe" friends' kids who easily get 80% or more in their GEP exams are perhaps truly gifted but you are not giving them enough credit.

felicia_sg
29-01-13, 21:06
What is there to address?

The so called "top schools" deem them suitable through their selection process. These schools decide not MOE, MOE facilitates. How is that unfair? I think it is good that the school has some leeway to decide who they want.

You mean the selection into these schools should be purely through the PSLE scores?...

You see the flaw with the PSLE score is that an exceptionally gifted student in mathematics may not be able to make it to a suitable school if he is weak in his Chinese. DSA allows an avenue.

Yes you are right, they may not get a school of their choice but usually they are offered other choices. What's wrong with that? They choose the schools but the schools also choose them.

You asked those top school teachers and lecturers, they said hor psle is still a better indication than dsa la.

I was told that many gep kids can't perform in sec schools and I asked some teachers why the school still prepared gep kids le since they all said psle is still good indication. They told me it was because of moe policy like giving them SBGE funds to the schol for them to accept gep kids. :doh:

kane
29-01-13, 21:10
gifted students don't earn million dollar salaries like the american gifted atheletes.

wind30
29-01-13, 21:50
yesterday i passed buy raffles institution...it looked like a university no a sec school...:eek:...no wonder all the cream of the crop talent come from there:doh:

duh.... did you see the new ITE at AMK? I thought the building looks better than RI. what are u talking about?

proud owner
29-01-13, 23:03
Yah lor, join PAP sure kena suan jialat jialat.... do this cannot, do that also cannot.... win also cannot, lose also cannot.... who wants to join?


pay me 1 mio a year i will join

no need to be smart one ...

there are a tam of smart people working behind the scene ...

minister are the Front man ... to announce policices ...

u think they all so good ah ?

can be minister of education ...then switch to another portfolio just like that ?

MBT from LTA to HDB ... swtich here switch there
they all so good ah ?

throw them an egg and they can churn up a new dish ?

proud owner
29-01-13, 23:04
yes i agree. WP support is really becoming cultish.. and the in-thing. not at all healthy for the nation, frankly speaking. it is becoz after being suppressed for so many years under the old man, now that the pple are liberated, they are blindly following the alternative. this is what you get after suppression - pple will rebel. not saying who is right or wrong, diff tack for different era.

PAP is now stuck. they really do have a problem attracting real talents. but if you read LKY's books, you will see that he emphasises on the gene pool theory, that's why they only go for elite. if they adopt a upper house and lower house type of policy - start to recruit more down to earth pple as MPs, to be led by good ministers.. i think pple will start to take more notice of them. once they get rid of the "ivory tower" image, votes will largely swing in their favour.



i never read that book

but gene pool theory
sounds very Nazi to me

proud owner
29-01-13, 23:07
I don't know why people begrudge those who studied at elite schools.

If your children can qualify for RI or RGS, would you deny them the chance?

Just because many are unhappy with the ruling party they take it out on such schools..... Singaporeans are so immature.

The truth us that education is a great leveller of playing field. Our elite schools are a fine example of that.

Its true that those who are willing to spend more money/time on their kids will have an advantage in education, however that can only bring you so far. To be in these elite schools, you need that something extra ...... either in intelligence or effort


you need MONEY to be within 1 km of those primary school

so you can be super smart ..but your parents cannot even afford to RENT a unit near the school

you L L cannot get in also right ?

kane
29-01-13, 23:11
duh.... did you see the new ITE at AMK? I thought the building looks better than RI. what are u talking about?

someone tells me it is the ION of ang mo kio. lol.

proud owner
29-01-13, 23:16
Fully agree with you.
If PAP have a candidate who is a doctor or lawyer, we would think they are using 'elite' and they cannot understand the people well.
If Opposition have doctor or lawyer, we would think they are capable of attracting the elite and it is worth our vote?
Anyway, if voters really want an ordinary folk to be an MP, a taxi driver or hawker with primary school education 'know' and 'in touch' with the ground people well, do voters want to vote for him?

if PAP brings in one such candidate ... it would show that pap does care about bringing in people from all walks of life and not from the same group over and over again ...

the people have spoken ... "they dont listen" ....they really dont do they ?

the people has been saying this for YEARS... the guy who head HDB lives in GCB ... the guy who runs SMRT ...drives 2 different ferraris ...

what do they know ? (the people asks ... but govt never ever heard these questions?)

kane
29-01-13, 23:19
maybe got hope, the new speaker of parliament lives in a HDB?

and if the SMRT boss does some "parking and riding" at 8am in the morning, he will easily see the current state of the "mobile sardine cans". lol.

hyenergix
29-01-13, 23:20
maybe got hope, the new speaker of parliament lives in a HDB?

and if the SMRT boss does some "parking and riding" at 8am in the morning, he will easily see the current state of the "mobile sardine cans". lol.

With e new celery?

kane
29-01-13, 23:24
With e new celery?

earlier, he was spotted doing his rounds on the trains. credit to him in all fairness.

if the team brought him for a train visit at 8am, his camera man won't even have the space to raise the camera to take a photo. at best is take out his mobile phone for a "stomp" moment.

proud owner
29-01-13, 23:36
earlier, he was spotted doing his rounds on the trains. credit to him in all fairness.

if the team brought him for a train visit at 8am, his camera man won't even have the space to raise the camera to take a photo. at best is take out his mobile phone for a "stomp" moment.


SMRT will close one compartment for him to use ... and be photographed

hyenergix
29-01-13, 23:38
earlier, he was spotted doing his rounds on the trains. credit to him in all fairness.

if the team brought him for a train visit at 8am, his camera man won't even have the space to raise the camera to take a photo. at best is take out his mobile phone for a "stomp" moment.

I was referring to e new speaker of parliament. Actually e mrt system was already quite bad more than 10 years ago. No amt of engineering can fix it over night, not even w e new planned systems. There is something call peak demand tt is v hard to tackle. The new pop target will make e situation worse. So actually inspection is more of visibility purpose.

kane
30-01-13, 00:06
SMRT will close one compartment for him to use ... and be photographed

at 8am, maybe he can get in, but the photographer have to take the next train. heh heh.

they can't drill the tunnels and lay the lines fast enough so it's only left to Public Relations management for now. the last thing they need are breakdowns.

and please buy good trains, not some cheapo "geely equivalent" brand for subway trains. good things don't come cheap.

hyenergix
30-01-13, 00:15
V good chance extraordinary things will happen in 2016.

Kanarazu
30-01-13, 05:46
at 8am, maybe he can get in, but the photographer have to take the next train. heh heh.

they can't drill the tunnels and lay the lines fast enough so it's only left to Public Relations management for now. the last thing they need are breakdowns.

and please buy good trains, not some cheapo "geely equivalent" brand for subway trains. good things don't come cheap.

Even before 7am already quite challenging for NS line.

Shanhz
30-01-13, 07:33
V good chance extraordinary things will happen in 2016.

PAP win back aljunied, hougang and punggol east? :D

eng81157
30-01-13, 07:33
at 8am, maybe he can get in, but the photographer have to take the next train. heh heh.

they can't drill the tunnels and lay the lines fast enough so it's only left to Public Relations management for now. the last thing they need are breakdowns.

and please buy good trains, not some cheapo "geely equivalent" brand for subway trains. good things don't come cheap.

should try getting on the platform at Jurong East in the morning :doh: :doh:
to makes matter worse, they get an entire bunch of generals to head SMRT :banghead: :banghead:

still never learn from the cedric foo experiment. wisdom tells us "once bitten, twice shy", but in Singapore "twice bitten, thrice still gah-gah try"

Shanhz
30-01-13, 07:45
to makes matter worse, they get an entire bunch of generals to head SMRT :banghead: :banghead:



actually this might not be a bad idea. MRT should be a pretty technical org, the retail front should be spun off from the main biz. since technical org, a bunch of regimental folks who can only follow the books.. may not be a bad thing. as long as they write the book correctly in the first place. let's see how they perform. in any case, i think their profile beat aunty ferrari hands down.

Shanhz
30-01-13, 07:56
the greater problem is that there is too much in-breeding. without a wider net, groupthink becomes prevalent. i think he is right, he thinks i am right, so policy must be right also? somemore, grassroots dun dare to say anything to offend the minister, civil servants down the ranks think something wrong with policy paper also diam diam talk amongst themselves (we see this in army all the time), end up all feedback is good feedback. that is a systemic problem, i believe if WP become garmen, same same also. every body want to "sa-kar", it is human.

how wide range of ideas can a group of doctors/generals/lawyers and civil servants come up with? don't u think there will be groupthink? this is organisational structure.. study this one already can get PhD leow. i am surprised so many doctors inside dun realise this. and keep bringing in more doctors.

a group of policy makers must have diversity. when the National Conversation is being filled by pple from PAP, PA, grassroots, etc, in itself there is already group think. how much effort has the ruling party made to include diversity (i assume not, i may be wrong).

different spectrums of society see things differently. if there is good effort to be inclusive, and in an un-biased way, then i think we will have great success in charting the next phase of development.

in policy making, the opinions of the "N" level grad is as important as the doctor and lawyer. i am not sure if that is being practised in our garmen.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/contain-singapore%E2%80%99s-rich--institutionalise-dissent--donald-low-094743693.html



“There is no prima facie reason to believe that those who have succeeded will channel their energies to improve society’s well-being,” he said.

Relating the example of Wall Street bankers using bailout money to pay themselves million-dollar bonuses, Low, who is also the vice president of the Economic Society of Singapore, cautioned against the establishment of a sense of self-entitlement among people who benefit from meritocracy and who believe completely in it.

“This kind of meritocracy breeds a belief among its beneficiaries that they are entitled to their rewards, that the market system is inherently just, and that inequality is natural,” he said. “They view those who have not succeeded in the system as slothful or lacking in merit — and thus undeserving of state support. Such a system increases resistance by the rich to the redistributive policies needed to address inequality.”

In his remarks, Low also called on the government to be open to a greater diversity of ideas, advocating a system of “distributed intelligence” instead of relying on a small group of leaders.

“In the long run, we are better off relying on a system of distributed intelligence, on Singapore having a diversity of ideas and competing options, than on a system that is critically dependent on a similar group of people, no matter how bright they might be,” he said.

“I’m more worried about how the desire for control, harmony and stability might weaken the already weak incentives for policymakers to allow competing ideas to surface, and to subject these to serious debate and analysis,” he said. “In short, I’m less worried about the risks of polarisation than I am about the effects of incumbency, the inertia of the status quo, and the tyranny of old ideas.”


Institute of Policy Studies also agree with me. maybe donald low read my post yesterday.

myfirstpc
30-01-13, 08:14
The crowd cannot be cleared with increased frequency of train arrivals. The distance between stations are approx 2 mins in travel time, finite. By increasing the number of carriages, will probably do a better job to clear the human congestion. If we look at HK, Korea, Japan, they have catered for addition of train cars as their platform is longer than the trainset.

We are not learning from the experts despite visits to their metro system. And we are still building CCL, DTL, TL, ERL, etc etc with the same mentality (6 car length). No room for future addition of train cars when the human traffic increases. Having a longer platform certainly won't kill the budget IMHO. Lessons Never Learned.


Even before 7am already quite challenging for NS line.

Lovelle
30-01-13, 08:19
The crowd cannot be cleared with increased frequency of train arrivals. The distance between stations are approx 2 mins in travel time, finite. By increasing the number of carriages, will probably do a better job to clear the human congestion. If we look at HK, Korea, Japan, they have catered for addition of train cars as their platform is longer than the trainset.

We are not learning from the experts despite visits to their metro system. And we are still building CCL, DTL, TL, ERL, etc etc with the same mentality (6 car length). No room for future addition of train cars when the human traffic increases. Having a longer platform certainly won't kill the budget IMHO. Lessons Never Learned.


yes, mrt problem seems recurring. HDB is fixing the problem with flat shortage and results are appearant now....mrt problem will exist by2016...this minister is in danger zone....issit rochor/kallang ?

eng81157
30-01-13, 08:24
actually this might not be a bad idea. MRT should be a pretty technical org, the retail front should be spun off from the main biz. since technical org, a bunch of regimental folks who can only follow the books.. may not be a bad thing. as long as they write the book correctly in the first place. let's see how they perform. in any case, i think their profile beat aunty ferrari hands down.

get an engineer to head it. if train breakdowns, what would they know about? tell the technicians to knock it down 20?! :eek: :eek:

myfirstpc
30-01-13, 08:38
MRT issues will be the norm. The design of new lines have to cater for longer platforms and longer/more train cars (peak hr, 8 cars, off-peak, 4 cars). The frequency can be down to 60 seconds between train arrivals. However, the trade off is, higher frequency = high wear and tear. More frequent disruptions. I am advocate of more train cars in a single train set (7-8 cars). Decades ago when doing a course on Operations Research on queues and congestion, from the simulation software, solutions to the problem are points using a larger capacity vehicle to reduce the crowd, before considering increasing the frequency.



yes, mrt problem seems recurring. HDB is fixing the problem with flat shortage and results are appearant now....mrt problem will exist by2016...this minister is in danger zone....issit rochor/kallang ?

hopeful
30-01-13, 08:58
....
We are not learning from the experts despite visits to their metro system. And we are still building CCL, DTL, TL, ERL, etc etc with the same mentality (6 car length). No room for future addition of train cars when the human traffic increases. Having a longer platform certainly won't kill the budget IMHO. Lessons Never Learned.

why can't have 6 car platform but have 8 car train?
any operational issues?

chiaberry
30-01-13, 09:09
why can't have 6 car platform but have 8 car train?
any operational issues?

How are the passengers in the additional 2 cars going to get on and off? Not enough space on the platform.

hopeful
30-01-13, 09:15
How are the passengers in the additional 2 cars going to get on and off? Not enough space on the platform.

so car1 go to car2 to enter exit, car 8 go to car7 to enter exit.
car2 to car7 is align with the platform.

car1 and car8 can be standing room only.

chiaberry
30-01-13, 09:16
I think there may be safety issues. What happens if fire break out? People in Cars 1 and 8 will be roast meat?

hopeful
30-01-13, 09:23
I think there may be safety issues. What happens if fire break out? People in Cars 1 and 8 will be roast meat?

cars1 and 8 also have doors, except that they wont open while on platform, if train stop midways, all doors in all cars to open.

and for driverless train arent they the safest, since they have more doors, normal doors + emergency door.

Rosy
30-01-13, 09:33
so car1 go to car2 to enter exit, car 8 go to car7 to enter exit.
car2 to car7 is align with the platform.

car1 and car8 can be standing room only.
Sounds feasible but may have problems entering and alighting due to some blocking the way and refusing to move in or give way during rush hours.

Shanhz
30-01-13, 10:04
get an engineer to head it. if train breakdowns, what would they know about? tell the technicians to knock it down 20?! :eek: :eek:

some of the general have engineering background. for the top echelon, understanding of engineering with good management skill is better than having an engineer but cannot manage pple. imagine put a nerdy professor as head of SMRT. theory alot but duno how to motivate pple.

give them a chance lah. ah lui is the one in greater danger.

eng81157
30-01-13, 10:07
some of the general have engineering background. for the top echelon, understanding of engineering with good management skill is better than having an engineer but cannot manage pple. imagine put a nerdy professor as head of SMRT. theory alot but duno how to motivate pple.

give them a chance lah. ah lui is the one in greater danger.

eh, sorry let me rephrase my suggestion - an engineer with practical, engineering experience

eng81157
30-01-13, 10:10
some of the general have engineering background. for the top echelon, understanding of engineering with good management skill is better than having an engineer but cannot manage pple. imagine put a nerdy professor as head of SMRT. theory alot but duno how to motivate pple.

give them a chance lah. ah lui is the one in greater danger.

just look at cedric foo, look at NOL. look at ng ser miang, look at WBL - rest my case

let the academics focus on what they love - research, but please STOP getting ex-generals/ex-admirals to head such institutions.

Shanhz
30-01-13, 10:17
just look at cedric foo, look at NOL. look at ng ser miang, look at WBL - rest my case

let the academics focus on what they love - research, but please STOP getting ex-generals/ex-admirals to head such institutions.

NOL and WBL are commercial entities. generals cannot do business, confirm and chop. because they everything go by the book. heck, even yeo ning hong, ex minister also screwed up.

but i am not expecting SMRT to make good profit (heng not vested, used to be), so general there is okay as long they can do the regimental things. and maintenance is all about discipline, isn't it?

but bro, let's not argue on this, becoz i agree with you, the generals are having it too easy. they shld not be guaranteed a retirement job. esp one in PAP. SMRT is a special case, IMHO.