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GWS
01-02-13, 10:26
Hello all,

I am intending to rent out my studio bedroom in my dual key unit.

The studio unit comes with its own kitchen, attached bathroom but no balcony.

The developer will provide a washer cum dryer, microwave, cooker hob and hood, sink and wardrobes. I guess this makes it partially furnished at the least.

I'm contemplating whether to fully furnish it before renting out, whereby I intend to install space-saving furniture (a double bed that can be hidden to become a sofa so as to maximise space; for e.g. when bed is not needed it can be hidden and only the sofa is shown so that it effectively transforms the bedroom into a living room).

Example of hidden bed cum sofa: http://smootree.com/product.php?cPath=47

Beyond that will be the usual TV, curtains etc.

Also, I am intending to perhaps throw in free wifi since I will be staying in the non-studio portion of my apartment and hence it is essentially cost-free to me.

Question is, should I rent it out partially or fully furnished given:
1. how much incremental rental can I expect? Given that the furnishings especially the hidden bed cum sofa will not be cheap, it may not be financially sensible?
2. what are my obligations as a landlord for renting out a fully furnished place? For e.g. when furniture/appliances spoil, who is liable and to what extent?

Thanks in advance.

Ricade
01-02-13, 10:33
hmm.. why not get a simple sofa bed if you are concerned abt the space saving part.. much cheaper.

Other than that, if you are renting out a studio unit, a good conservative estimate shd be 2k-3k, depending on location..

furnitures of course if damaged it will be deducted from deposit amount.

zeamybro
01-02-13, 10:41
Bro

Let me chip in my 2 cents worth..

Typically, smaller units especially in OCR would be rented out as fully furnished, unlike the CCR/RCR ones where tenants have deeper pockets and may wish to choose their own furnitures.

I suggest you just provide the basic white goods + lamps + curtains first... Open up your unit for a few viewings and test the market, see what the general tenant pool is looking for. Once you have an interested party, you can then nego further on what else to be added (cos sometimes what you provide may not be what the tenant wants).

As for the damages, it depends on whether its due to mis-handling by tenants or wear-and-tear or faulty product. Mis-handling is clear cut and tenant has to pay. As for wear-and-tear, there should be a clause in most TAs stating that anything less than $X amount would be payable by the tenant.

GWS
01-02-13, 10:41
hmm.. why not get a simple sofa bed if you are concerned abt the space saving part.. much cheaper.

Other than that, if you are renting out a studio unit, a good conservative estimate shd be 2k-3k, depending on location..

furnitures of course if damaged it will be deducted from deposit amount.

My concept is to enable it to transform from a living room to bedroom and vice versa depending on need, just unsure if the "investment" would be appreciated in terms of a financially favorable rental lease.

Location-wise it will be in Tampines (Qbay) and I've checked that for nearby Tropica the rental for a 3-bedder unit is about ~$3.5K/mnth...so would an expectation of $2-3K/mnth be too much? (Assuming rentals stay the same level when it TOPs in 2016 - the figures here are just for illustrative purpose, I guess the rental for the studio will always be pegged to that of a full unit?)

GWS
01-02-13, 10:43
Bro

Let me chip in my 2 cents worth..

Typically, smaller units especially in OCR would be rented out as fully furnished, unlike the CCR/RCR ones where tenants have deeper pockets and may wish to choose their own furnitures.

I suggest you just provide the basic white goods + lamps + curtains first... Open up your unit for a few viewings and test the market, see what the general tenant pool is looking for. Once you have an interested party, you can then nego further on what else to be added (cos sometimes what you provide may not be what the tenant wants).

As for the damages, it depends on whether its due to mis-handling by tenants or wear-and-tear or faulty product. Mis-handling is clear cut and tenant has to pay. As for wear-and-tear, there should be a clause in most TAs stating that anything less than $X amount would be payable by the tenant.

Ok thanks, very sensible advice.

Am just thinking ahead because if to do it fully furnished I may want to do up the renovations together with the rest of the apartment for economies of scale.

zeamybro
01-02-13, 10:52
Ok thanks, very sensible advice.

Am just thinking ahead because if to do it fully furnished I may want to do up the renovations together with the rest of the apartment for economies of scale.

Oic.... Having nicer furnishings doesnt necc guarantee fetching a higher rental, but it will definitely help you in having a cutting edge over your competitiors and you get to rent out your unit faster :D

A tenant who appreciates your furnitures and is willing to pay more would be a bonus.

Personally, I will do up my unit nicely to attract 'better' tenants, just like Nav14 and some other bros here. But there is also another camp of landlords who would just keep to the basic and focus on maximizing the rental yield. No right or wrong =)

flxcat
01-02-13, 10:59
My concept is to enable it to transform from a living room to bedroom and vice versa depending on need, just unsure if the "investment" would be appreciated in terms of a financially favorable rental lease.

Location-wise it will be in Tampines (Qbay) and I've checked that for nearby Tropica the rental for a 3-bedder unit is about ~$3.5K/mnth...so would an expectation of $2-3K/mnth be too much? (Assuming rentals stay the same level when it TOPs in 2016 - the figures here are just for illustrative purpose, I guess the rental for the studio will always be pegged to that of a full unit?)

Will comapring with Tropica 2 bedder rental more appropriate :ashamed1:

darkseed73
01-02-13, 11:04
If a studio with landlord charges me 2-3k and a studio without landlord charges me the same it's obvious which I would choose especially is I am a single expat guy.

My friend rent out his @ 1.5k that's all i can advice u.

Mr.Keh
01-02-13, 11:12
I think you should not buy the bed first. This would give the tenant the flexibility to choose. There are people who do not like sofa beds as the bed may not be as comfortable as the traditional ones.

Ringo33
01-02-13, 11:30
My concept is to enable it to transform from a living room to bedroom and vice versa depending on need, just unsure if the "investment" would be appreciated in terms of a financially favorable rental lease.

Location-wise it will be in Tampines (Qbay) and I've checked that for nearby Tropica the rental for a 3-bedder unit is about ~$3.5K/mnth...so would an expectation of $2-3K/mnth be too much? (Assuming rentals stay the same level when it TOPs in 2016 - the figures here are just for illustrative purpose, I guess the rental for the studio will always be pegged to that of a full unit?)

My suggestion is to keep the unit as simple as possible, just do up necessary items like installing decent warm lighting (dont buy cheap white florescence ceiling lights), maybe a ceiling fan and also day and night curtains. Do give the wall a fresh coat of paint. Always go for white color or off white color for wall and ceiling. Beside rental, you also need to consider the length of lease.

My other suggestion is that, dont get too close too fast with your tenant by offering free wifi etc. Sometime it might be better to keep a certain distant.

leesg123
01-02-13, 11:47
One suggestion, DO NOT LET TENANT KNOW you are the landlord.

No tenant like to stay just next door to landlord. like always under watch. so your pricing has to be competitive.

august
01-02-13, 11:58
partial furnish has to include curtains.

chiaberry
01-02-13, 12:13
When I was looking at Qbay Trio, I was estimating an "average" rental of 1.5K for the studio and 2.5 to 3K for the rest of the unit. This will of course depend on the economy and the rental market at the time of TOP. If renting out NOW, it would be higher, but please note that in 2016, there will be a lot more fairly new condo units in the market by then.

If it were me, I would only put in the white goods and not do any built-in furniture. Wait for a tenant and provide furniture according to his/her needs.

GWS
01-02-13, 12:17
Thanks all for your very helpful advice.

Got me thinking....renting out the studio within a dual-key unit with the landlord staying in the non-studio portion of the apartment seems like a pretty different proposition from the typical scenario of just renting out the whole unit altogether, and comes with a seemingly different set of considerations.

Would anyone here happen to have a similar experience?

Or if not, how would you guys approach this?

Rosy
01-02-13, 12:20
How to split utilities bills?

GWS
01-02-13, 12:20
When I was looking at Qbay Trio, I was estimating an "average" rental of 1.5K for the studio and 2.5 to 3K for the rest of the unit. This will of course depend on the economy and the rental market at the time of TOP. If renting out NOW, it would be higher, but please note that in 2016, there will be a lot more fairly new condo units in the market by then.

If it were me, I would only put in the white goods and not do any built-in furniture. Wait for a tenant and provide furniture according to his/her needs.

Perfect, exactly what I asked for and even before I posted! :cheers5:

GWS
01-02-13, 12:21
How to split utilities bills?

I understand for utilities can install a separate meter for the studio unit.

Then when the bill comes just itemise the bill and charge the tenant on a pro-rated basis?

Rosy
01-02-13, 12:22
Trio is a very good layout and that self contained studio is better for home office or as an entertainment room for guest and relatives. Great for mahjong or watching late night soccer.

Rosy
01-02-13, 12:23
I understand for utilities can install a separate meter for the studio unit.

Then when the bill comes just itemise the bill and charge the tenant on a pro-rated basis?
Oh this is something new to me. PUB will install for u?

GWS
01-02-13, 12:26
Trio is a very good layout and that self contained studio is better for home office or as an entertainment room for guest and relatives. Great for mahjong or watching late night soccer.

Yea but I reckon I will have more than enough capacity as it will just be me and my partner living in the apartment only and we probably would not be having any kids for the short term. Besides the master bedroom we will be converting the utilities room into a study, so we already have one spare room and am are still deliberating on what to do with it.

So for the studio most likely we looking to rent out. Just that am thinking about how to go about approaching it.

GWS
01-02-13, 12:30
Oh this is something new to me. PUB will install for u?

No, have to engage our own contractor to do it.

How it works is that PUB will still sent the landlord a single bill that is inclusive of the studio's usage. Landlord will have to install a separate meter that monitors the usage of the studio unit. Then upon receipt of the bill will have to split the bill with tenant by itemising the bill based on the separate meter's reading.

But also, I'm thinking how to "record" down the meter readings in order to pro-rate to tenant. Perhaps have to take pictures of the meter reading in accordance to the billing cycle start and end date?

Rosy
01-02-13, 12:31
Yea but I reckon I will have more than enough capacity as it will just be me and my partner living in the apartment only and we probably would not be having any kids for the short term. Besides the master bedroom we will be converting the utilities room into a study, so we already have one spare room and am are still deliberating on what to do with it.

So for the studio most likely we looking to rent out. Just that am thinking about how to go about approaching it.
3 years later, your priorities may have changed.

It will be better to leave it partial furnished until u find a tenant and see whether he or she needs any furniture. And u may not like the idea of having a stranger in your house after trying it for a year or so.

chiaberry
01-02-13, 12:32
Thanks all for your very helpful advice.

Got me thinking....renting out the studio within a dual-key unit with the landlord staying in the non-studio portion of the apartment seems like a pretty different proposition from the typical scenario of just renting out the whole unit altogether, and comes with a seemingly different set of considerations.

Would anyone here happen to have a similar experience?

Or if not, how would you guys approach this?

I think the dual key concept is quite new. Not much experience of this before. The closest would be HDB flat owner renting out a room or two in his flat.

I concur with the other forum member that you should not divulge that you are the landlord living next door when you get the tenant. You have to be more picky in choosing the tenant. May need to go for one offering a lower rent but with a "safer" profile for being your neighbour as well as your tenant.

Anyway it's a long time to the TOP. Worry about it when it comes. Invite me over to see your quarry view! :cheers5:

Rosy
01-02-13, 12:32
No, have to engage our own contractor to do it.

How it works is that PUB will still sent the landlord a single bill that is inclusive of the studio's usage. Landlord will have to install a separate meter that monitors the usage of the studio unit. Then upon receipt of the bill will have to split the bill with tenant by itemising the bill based on the separate meter's reading.

But also, I'm thinking how to "record" down the meter readings in order to pro-rate to tenant. Perhaps have to take pictures of the meter reading in accordance to the billing cycle start and end date?
I think only can track electricity usage and not water usage.

How much does it cost to install the meter?

GWS
01-02-13, 12:36
3 years later, your priorities may have changed.

It will be better to leave it partial furnished until u find a tenant and see whether he or she needs any furniture. And u may not like the idea of having a stranger in your house after trying it for a year or so.

Right, I think I will go ahead with renovations but will keep it partially furnished while awaiting a tenant before deciding on whether to provide full furnishing or not.

As for the part on having a stranger in the house, what I understand is that from the main entrance there will be a short foyer where the main and studio unit both have their separate doors. So what this means is that beyond sharing the same main door, the main and studio units are as good as two separate units with the tenant having no access to the main unit at all.

hopeful
01-02-13, 12:36
just a thought, any difference in landlord stress level if the tenant in a dual key dont pay rent on time versus tenant in separate unit, separate project dont pay rent on time?

GWS
01-02-13, 12:43
Chiaberry: I think it would be quite difficult to disguise the fact that I'm the landlord especially if I'm going to be neighbours with the tenant....haha..maybe I will act as a tenant too and the actual landlord will be just a virtual persona who I will just go through agent to liaise with at all times..lol

Rosy: I've no idea how much it costs to install the meter. Was told of the separate meter thing from the agent and I had the impression that both water and electricity usage can be separately monitored...if really cannot..I think this will become one of the drawbacks against the concept of renting out a dual key unit

chiaberry
01-02-13, 12:44
As for the part on having a stranger in the house, what I understand is that from the main entrance there will be a short foyer where the main and studio unit both have their separate doors. So what this means is that beyond sharing the same main door, the main and studio units are as good as two separate units with the tenant having no access to the main unit at all.

Is the partition between the studio unit and the rest of the flat a proper solid brick wall, a hollow block wall or just partition board? I forgot to ask the agent when I visited. It is not uncommon for contractors to use hollow blocks rather than bricks in between rooms. I was quoted this option when I was renovating my place and broke down the wall between 2 rooms to realign the wall.

chiaberry
01-02-13, 12:45
Chiaberry: I think it would be quite difficult to disguise the fact that I'm the landlord especially if I'm going to be neighbours with the tenant....haha..maybe I will act as a tenant too and the actual landlord will be just a virtual persona who I will just go through agent to liaise with at all times..lol

Rosy: I've no idea how much it costs to install the meter. Was told of the separate meter thing from the agent and I had the impression that both water and electricity usage can be separately monitored...if really cannot..I think this will become one of the drawbacks against the concept of renting out a dual key unit

Phone up Singapore Power and ask them if both the electricity and water can be monitored separately and how much is the cost.

Don't take the agents word that it can be done. They will say a lot of things to make a sale but not all are true. (that being said that is the case for other professions too.....:tsk-tsk: )

GWS
01-02-13, 12:48
Is the partition between the studio unit and the rest of the flat a proper solid brick wall, a hollow block wall or just partition board? I forgot to ask the agent when I visited. It is not uncommon for contractors to use hollow blocks rather than bricks in between rooms. I was quoted this option when I was renovating my place and broke down the wall between 2 rooms to realign the wall.

Hmm this is a very relevant question! Never came across my mind until you mention it. Think I will ask my agent and let you guys know when I have any answers.

Seems like the devil is indeed in the details as far as the concept of renting out a dual key unit is concerned.

yaozong7
01-02-13, 13:01
Hmm this is a very relevant question! Never came across my mind until you mention it. Think I will ask my agent and let you guys know when I have any answers.

Seems like the devil is indeed in the details as far as the concept of renting out a dual key unit is concerned.

Besides free wifi, if you have a maid, I would suggest you to throw in free housekeeping & breakfast for S$2k. Haha.....

GWS
01-02-13, 13:17
Besides free wifi, if you have a maid, I would suggest you to throw in free housekeeping & breakfast for S$2k. Haha.....

Haha that would essentially make it a service apartment :cheers5: