advise for newbies

[onglai]

hi all,

i need some advise from the bros here.

i am 40+, living in hdb, outstanding loan about 100k,

i am thinking of buying a private property to rent out (ec and new launches are out). i will continue to live in my hdb. max budget is 1.2m, loan tenure not more then 20years (to be fully paid before 65 years old)

i can clear my hdb loan so that i can take 80% or,
i keep existing hdb loan and take 50% loan for 2nd property.

what will u do if u were to be me? which area will u look at, wat size, will u buy now, or wait for the cooling measure to take effect etc..

i am a total noob on house hunting... need advise on how to kickstart property hunting.. :)

thanks in advance.

[Lemonlaw]

hi all,

i need some advise from the bros here.

i am 40+, living in hdb, outstanding loan about 100k,

i am thinking of buying a private property to rent out (ec and new launches are out). i will continue to live in my hdb. max budget is 1.2m, loan tenure not more then 20years (to be fully paid before 65 years old)

i can clear my hdb loan so that i can take 80% or,
i keep existing hdb loan and take 50% loan for 2nd property.

what will u do if u were to be me? which area will u look at, wat size, will u buy now, or wait for the cooling measure to take effect etc..

i am a total noob on house hunting... need advise on how to kickstart property hunting.. :)

thanks in advance.

What's your cash in hand?
What's is your combine income?
Any liability apart from the hdb loan?

[roly8]

you can take only up to 60% loan since you are 40+ year old.. (based one of the CM)

i think..

[onglai]

What's your cash in hand?
What's is your combine income?
Any liability apart from the hdb loan?

After I clear my hdb loan. I can still fork out about 500k. No other loan leow.
Single income about 8k

[yowetan]

Hi...I would say go for it, and try to get Mt Sinai area where it is accessible to all place(s) and appealing to foreigners.

[onglai]

Hi...I would say go for it, and try to get Mt Sinai area where it is accessible to all place(s) and appealing to foreigners.

Seldom been to that part of sg, whole life centred ard hougang.
But budget 1.2mil nia, think hard to get a unit there ba

[yowetan]

Seldom been to that part of sg, whole life centred ard hougang.
But budget 1.2mil nia, think hard to get a unit there ba

Hi...You can consider Kovan area, though Mt Sinai is definitely a better one.

You can get a small unit in Mt Sinai.

[Cupcakes]

Thought now with or without loan, 2nd property LTV will be 50% or 30%? Think I got cheated by the agent :tongue3:

[onglai]

Thought now with or without loan, 2nd property LTV will be 50% or 30%? Think I got cheated by the agent :tongue3:

There is no change to the existing LTV limit for individual borrowers who have no outstanding housing loans2.

Above statement from mnd website. So I presume once I clear my hdb loan, I shd be able to loan up to 80% flor the second house

[cbsh38584]

Seldom been to that part of sg, whole life centred ard hougang.
But budget 1.2mil nia, think hard to get a unit there ba


You are a marginal buyer. Why must U invest in property at this time with the latest cooling measure ? Your job security is not Perpertual. U will be in trouble if a major illness strike. Do U need to take care of your aging parent medical fee ? Did U have a comprehensive insurance plan to take care of any major critical illness , Supremehealth insurance etc etc

If gov plan to increase the SG population 6.5m to 6.9m. Why dont U look at Dividend stocks that will benefit from the increase in population ?

Telco , healthcare stock etc. They pay you 5 to 7% dividend every year.
Just be patience to wait for the stock mkt to correct. It will 100% come.
M'sia Telcom pays > 8% every year.

http://www.investmentmoats.com/DividendScreener/DividendScreener.php

rdgs,
Vic

[waterviewer88]

you can take only up to 60% loan since you are 40+ year old.. (based one of the CM)

i think..

No such ruling...you can take up to 80% if you have no loan outstanding and loan period does not exceed 30 yrs or before you reach 65. Only thing is you have to pay ABSD of 7% for 2nd property.

[Cupcakes]

There is no change to the existing LTV limit for individual borrowers who have no outstanding housing loans2.

Above statement from mnd website. So I presume once I clear my hdb loan, I shd be able to loan up to 80% flor the second house :tongue3: fine. At least I don't pay extra absd n 25% up front. :mad:

[buttercarp]

http://www.investmentmoats.com/DividendScreener/DividendScreener.php

rdgs,
Vic

Hi Vic, I love that guy's website and have been following closely for the past month!
He is really passionate about investing and blogging about it.
I wished I had learnt about it earlier.

[cbsh38584]

Hi Vic, I love that guy's website and have been following closely for the past month!
He is really passionate about investing and blogging about it.
I wished I had learnt about it earlier.


6.5m to 6.9m population means more biz for telco companies. Just be very very patience, correction will come.


rdgs,
Vic

[Simi]

hi all,

i need some advise from the bros here.

i am 40+, living in hdb, outstanding loan about 100k,

i am thinking of buying a private property to rent out (ec and new launches are out). i will continue to live in my hdb. max budget is 1.2m, loan tenure not more then 20years (to be fully paid before 65 years old)

i can clear my hdb loan so that i can take 80% or,
i keep existing hdb loan and take 50% loan for 2nd property.

what will u do if u were to be me? which area will u look at, wat size, will u buy now, or wait for the cooling measure to take effect etc..

i am a total noob on house hunting... need advise on how to kickstart property hunting.. :)

thanks in advance.

Hi onglai

your 2nd property is for investment and a hedge on inflation

To kickstart
Start browsing through propertyguru on rental pricing on specific area

I am a West guy
so for a S$1.2M budget you can get a 2 bedrooms 999/freehold or
a 3 bedrooms 99LH condo

Rental income should be around 3.5k or lucky enough even 4k for these condo

Rental income should be able to service your monthly loan instalment assuming if you take a S$600 to S$700k bank loan


Annual Property tax for renting out a S$1.2m property should be around 3k. Monthly Maintaineance fee varies from condo to condo

But if I will you,
will go for newly launch condo as I prefer to buy from developer

or you can wait for 2014/2015 where many condo will be TOP ings

Its your choice as some do not mind buying from owner


just my 2c worth

[CondoInterested]

You can make a good decision by yourself if you put both calculations on spreadsheet to see which route will able to last you longer with most money still with you.

If you choose to fully pay up your HDB loan of about 100k, it's first a 100k gone. LTV 80% you will have to pay higher monthly if both route have same number of repayment period. Let's assume if you are out of job, how long your funds from CPF and cash can last.

If you choose not to fully pay HDB loan, 100k is with you to slowly pay both your hdb and pc. LTV 50 or 30%, your should be paying less monthly for pc if same length of payment period as above. Let's again assume you.are out of job, how long can your funds from CPF and cash can last.

The longer the funds can last, the better, gives you better time space to look for new job or even new tenant (if not rented out), less stress.

[Allthepies]

hi all,

i need some advise from the bros here.

i am 40+, living in hdb, outstanding loan about 100k,

i am thinking of buying a private property to rent out (ec and new launches are out). i will continue to live in my hdb. max budget is 1.2m, loan tenure not more then 20years (to be fully paid before 65 years old)

i can clear my hdb loan so that i can take 80% or,
i keep existing hdb loan and take 50% loan for 2nd property.

what will u do if u were to be me? which area will u look at, wat size, will u buy now, or wait for the cooling measure to take effect etc..

i am a total noob on house hunting... need advise on how to kickstart property hunting.. :)

thanks in advance.

The decision whether to clear your HDB loan is very straight forward, whichever option requires you to folk up the least cash, go for tat option.

Now the rest of the questions are more tricky. You need to project whether in the next 1 or 2 years, the housing market will correct. If your projection is yes, then hold your purchase until correction comes. If you think that correction will come only after a longer timeframe like 5 years, then you may want to consider buying now, as price increase and loss of rental income may be more than the price correction.

As to where to buy, look at confirm growth area.

Wish you good luck and success in owning your 2nd property! :cheers1:

[DC33_2008]

One person household income to invest in large and illiquid asset like property is usually more risky whether you are earning 8k or 20k/mth unless you have reserved of more than a year of your salary given the current volatile market. Unless your job is recession proof such as your are in non-contract civil service, minister, non-contract teacher, faculty in university with tenure, etc. (Must qualify that they must not do silly things like the prof, principals, chief, etc.)

[DKSG]

One person household income to invest in large and illiquid asset like property is usually more risky whether you are earning 8k or 20k/mth unless you have reserved of more than a year of your salary given the current volatile market. Unless your job is recession proof such as your are in non-contract civil service, minister, non-contract teacher, faculty in university with tenure, etc. (Must qualify that they must not do silly things like the prof, principals, chief, etc.)


I always assume people here all got 1-2 years of reserves to start with before thinking of investing. Other than very very new newbies in their twenties, most people should have that reserves.

Newbies' reserves is their parents ... haha! Who will have to support them if they get retrenched.

DKSG

[sherlock]

If TS can clear his HDB loan and still have 500k to spare, I dont see why he cannot afford a PC for investment though this might not be the right time

[onglai]

Thanks for input from everyone here. :)

Ya I have already set aside more then 1 year of reserve in case of retrenchment. Insurance all these last time already bot a lot when I have my children. Stocks I have abit but after Lehman scared leow. Dare not to put too much in it. I guess property is more straight forward. At least house dun disppear overnight. Hehe. In a way it's like a force savings.

What is confirm growth area? U mean those new to future mrt?

Property website the price they put for rental or sale, are they real? I heard those advertised price for property is anyhow shout one?

[onglai]

By the way. I am not saying I am going to buy immediately. Just want to gather more info and seek some opinions and start looking out the market, in case suddenly opportunity strike and I am not ready to react.

[cbsh38584]

Thanks for input from everyone here. :)

Ya I have already set aside more then 1 year of reserve in case of retrenchment. Insurance all these last time already bot a lot when I have my children. Stocks I have abit but after Lehman scared leow. Dare not to put too much in it. I guess property is more straight forward. At least house dun disppear overnight. Hehe. In a way it's like a force savings.

What is confirm growth area? U mean those new to future mrt?

Property website the price they put for rental or sale, are they real? I heard those advertised price for property is anyhow shout one?


Property investment is a serious long commitment. You have to do a stress test on your financial capablities whether U can go through any potential crisis that may strike.

Like Major illness or accident from any family members, retrenchment, taking care of your OLD age parent high medical fees, another Lehman crisis happen again , rise in interest rate & cannot rent out your condo etc.

SG gov says that they are targetting 6.5m to 6.9m population. They will ensure that EXCESS HDB will to be built to prevent a political mistakes again by under build in the last few years. Release more land to stabilise the property price. So the upside is now not much for the next 5-10 yrs due to the extra 7% stamp fee.

Dont buy affordable condo that has a bad location for rental because U will be fighting again many S'porean & other foreign investors who hv the same thinking like U. To buy & rent out.





Unit trust like Schrode Asian growth fund & Prudential SG manage fund etc have a ave return of 6-8% yearly. It has gone through ONCE IN A CENTURY AISA financial crisis 97/98, 2000 DOT COM BURST , SEP11 in 2001, SAR in 2003 , IRAQ war & US financial crisis in 08/09. It still give U a return of 6-8% yearly if you are emotionally steady & strong in holding your investment just like property.

If U hv experience in investing stocks. You just need to be TRAINED to be EMOTIONALLY steady & STRONG. Be very very patience & Buy when there is extreme FEAR. My friend bought 10,000 share LVS (Las Vegas sand) @ US$2 amt to US$20k in 2009. Now it is worth US$520k within 4 years & still holding.

OSIM was 0.06 in 2009. If U buy 10000 lots @0.06 amt to 60k. It is worth 1.8m after 4 years. Dont worry if we miss it. opportunities will come again. Everybody will hv the chance to strike at least 5 times jackpot in your life time in stock mkt. First U NEED TO BE TRAINED TO BE EMOTIONALLY STEADY & STRONG. YOUR CASH 500k can fully made used when the CRISIS come again & it will come.

rdgs,
Vic

[buttercarp]

6.5m to 6.9m population means more biz for telco companies. Just be very very patience, correction will come.


rdgs,
Vic

Hi Vic, I tried to pm you but your mailbox is full.
Why do you say a correction will come when the population is increasing?
Thanks.




OSIM was 0.06 in 2009. If U buy 10000 lots @0.06 amt to 60k. It is worth 1.8m after 4 years. Dont worry if we miss it. opportunities will come again. Everybody will hv the chance to strike at least 5 times jackpot in your life time in stock mkt. First U NEED TO BE TRAINED TO BE EMOTIONALLY STEADY & STRONG. YOUR CASH 500k can fully made used when the CRISIS come again & it will come.

rdgs,
Vic

It should be 0.06 X 10000 000 = 600K ?
It is not something for the faint hearted.

[cbsh38584]

Hi Vic, I tried to pm you but your mailbox is full.
Why do you say a correction will come when the population is increasing?
Thanks.




It should be 0.06 X 10000 000 = 600K ?
It is not something for the faint hearted.

Sorry typo error. It should be 1000 lots , not 10,000 lots.
1000 [email protected] ([email protected]) = $60k.

Stock mkt correction are a natural part of the stock mkt cycle. Every year they will be 1 to 2 correction in the stock mkt. Every few years, there will be a major crash in the stock mkt. Be different against the herd using simple investment principles. EXTREME FEAR INDEX. This require PATIENCE.

[Allthepies]

What is confirm growth area? U mean those new to future mrt?



you have to do your own homework, only then will you buy with no regrets. :D:D

[cbsh38584]

Hi Vic, I tried to pm you but your mailbox is full.
Why do you say a correction will come when the population is increasing?
Thanks.




It should be 0.06 X 10000 000 = 600K ?
It is not something for the faint hearted.

If it is 10,[email protected]= 600k.
Today is worth 18 million. U can really retire in a luxury life with your family.

rdgs,
Vic

[buttercarp]

Sorry typo error. It should be 1000 lots , not 10,000 lots.
1000 [email protected] ([email protected]) = $60k.

Stock mkt correction are a natural part of the stock mkt cycle. Every year they will be 1 to 2 correction in the stock mkt. Every few years, there will be a major crash in the stock mkt. Be different against the herd using simple investment principles. EXTREME FEAR INDEX. This require PATIENCE.

Thanks vic.
Wow... $60k to 1.8 mil in just 4 years.
But in 2009, was there a possibility of the company going bust?

[howgozit]

After I clear my hdb loan. I can still fork out about 500k. No other loan leow.
Single income about 8k

With $500k in hand and no debt TS is not a marginal buyer.

You wouldn't be that far off a couple of years ago, a pity you took till now to decide to invest.

Anyway looking forward.... l think things are going to taper and then plataeu before seeking direction. I believe you can wait another 6mths to a year before you decide... things are not going to change much.... if anything the upside is limited.

Good luck.

Gong Xi Fa Cai

[chiaberry]

Thanks vic.
Wow... $60k to 1.8 mil in just 4 years.
But in 2009, was there a possibility of the company going bust?

I think that would have been considered a high risk purchase at the time. Needs iron balls to wait out the recovery and iron balls to hold even though it went up so high and resisting temptation to cash out earlier.

:cheers5:

[buttercarp]

I think that would have been considered a high risk purchase at the time. Needs iron balls to wait out the recovery and iron balls to hold even though it went up so high and resisting temptation to cash out earlier.

:cheers5:

I tried googling about osim's past but I can't find much info of its past history and why its price could drop so low at that time.
Any idea what happened?
I like history..... it is very insightful.

[cbsh38584]

I tried googling about osim's past but I can't find much info of its past history and why its price could drop so low at that time.
Any idea what happened?
I like history..... it is very insightful.

http://ir.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/blank.gifTue,Feb 24, 2009
The Business Times (http://ir.asiaone.com/print/Investor%2BRelations/BT-ST%2BNews/Story/A1Story20090224-124126.html)http://ir.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/blank.gif (javascript:openEmailA1AdminWindow(document.emailToFriendForm))LAST week, lifestyle products group OSIM International posted a $99.44 million net loss for FY08 - driven by its fourth-quarter $77.31 million write-off of its investment in US specialty retail company Brookstone.
A look at the stock charts shows that the market has reacted positively to the news as its share price rose from its close of 5.5 cents last Wednesday - before the announcement - to 6 cents yesterday.


If U bought Microsoft stock US$1000 in 1986. It is worth > US$10 million. So investing dont need to come out big capital.

rdgs,
Vic

[buttercarp]

http://ir.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/blank.gifTue,Feb 24, 2009

The Business Times http://ir.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/blank.gif LAST week, lifestyle products group OSIM International posted a $99.44 million net loss for FY08 - driven by its fourth-quarter $77.31 million write-off of its investment in US specialty retail company Brookstone.
A look at the stock charts shows that the market has reacted positively to the news as its share price rose from its close of 5.5 cents last Wednesday - before the announcement - to 6 cents yesterday.


If U bought Microsoft stock US$1000 in 1986. It is worth > US$10 million. So investing dont need to come out big capital.

rdgs,
Vic

Thanks vic!
It is amazing that one retail store Brookstone can drag Osim till so low.
I think the Microsoft example that you have quoted ..... that era of rags to riches with US$1000 , is it still possible in this day and age?

[Simi]

Well, there are many counters in our STI that are 0.05 to 0.20c today

take your choice

It may turn out to be the next Osim :D

[cbsh38584]

Thanks vic!
It is amazing that one retail store Brookstone can drag Osim till so low.
I think the Microsoft example that you have quoted ..... that era of rags to riches with US$1000 , is it still possible in this day and age?

Facebook ? But return will not be like Microsoft.
Bought 100 share @US$20 amt to US$2000 for my son future oversea education. Let see how it perform in 20 yrs time.


rdgs,
Vic

[onglai]

Till today I still dunno why Osim so strong, everytime passby Osim shop. The sales are standing there like a kokokay. And I dun have any friend owning a Osim chair. Maybe all my friends are like me duuno how to enjoy life. Lol.

Can anyone comment wat will happen when the interest rate start to increase? I mean in1997 the interest rate was like ard 7% but pple were still buying like no tomorrow, then Thailand kena currency attack which then spread to the whole Asian, causing the market to crash.

[Simi]

Till today I still dunno why Osim so strong, everytime passby Osim shop. The sales are standing there like a kokokay. And I dun have any friend owning a Osim chair. Maybe all my friends are like me duuno how to enjoy life. Lol.

Can anyone comment wat will happen when the interest rate start to increase? I mean in1997 the interest rate was like ard 7% but pple were still buying like no tomorrow, then Thailand kena currency attack which then spread to the whole Asian, causing the market to crash.

they have other business la

master franchisee for GNC in Singapore and Malaysia
in China, retail under the brand RichLife

they also aquired TWC Tea sometimes ago

Osim is one of the king if not the king in lifestyle brands in Asia

[rymccondo77]

Can check out this website for a very recent (and positive) report on Osim :

http://www.maybank-keresearch.com.sg/Research.aspx

[onglai]

they have other business la

master franchisee for GNC in Singapore and Malaysia
in China, retail under the brand RichLife

they also aquired TWC Tea sometimes ago

Osim is one of the king if not the king in lifestyle brands in Asia


Haha ic. Got eye dunno Tarzan.

[leesg123]

Out of every success stock story (like microsoft), there are many many more others failed.

If one had invested in Chartered Semi or Creative, both are so called darlings of stock market. How now?

stock market is stochastic hence is gambling, no doubt a more atas form of gambling.

Property investment is like a form of savings. If the share price crash, it will be a worthless piece of data (yes, not even PAPER because now everything online). If property price crash, it is still tangible. Still there even if price crash to zero dollar. Very simple concept actually.

[dare2]

You are a marginal buyer. Why must U invest in property at this time with the latest cooling measure ? Your job security is not Perpertual. U will be in trouble if a major illness strike. Do U need to take care of your aging parent medical fee ? Did U have a comprehensive insurance plan to take care of any major critical illness , Supremehealth insurance etc etc

If gov plan to increase the SG population 6.5m to 6.9m. Why dont U look at Dividend stocks that will benefit from the increase in population ?

Telco , healthcare stock etc. They pay you 5 to 7% dividend every year.
Just be patience to wait for the stock mkt to correct. It will 100% come.
M'sia Telcom pays > 8% every year.

http://www.investmentmoats.com/DividendScreener/DividendScreener.php

rdgs,
Vic


...The guy has 500K after clearing his HDB loan.....if he is a marginal investor, majority are marginal like him......you sound like a broker trying to canvas for client here....nice try.

[samuelk]

Out of every success stock story (like microsoft), there are many many more others failed.

If one had invested in Chartered Semi or Creative, both are so called darlings of stock market. How now?

stock market is stochastic hence is gambling, no doubt a more atas form of gambling.

Property investment is like a form of savings. If the share price crash, it will be a worthless piece of data (yes, not even PAPER because now everything online). If property price crash, it is still tangible. Still there even if price crash to zero dollar. Very simple concept actually.
not forgettiing intel. And the no1 faverite lehman bros.

[Sam88]

there are still many stocks still on the cheap.

citi, aig, mgm, etc... those who bot citi at 10 from the high of 50 are still in the red.

on hindsight, everything seems clear. Move forward today, can anyone say with conviction which stock will be a multi bagger?

move forward to next recession, when to go in??? say citi at the high of 50, drop to 20, 10, 5? at 5, it is 10% of peak.

this recent lehman bro must have taught all of u something.i learnt a lot. wat I learnt was. U DON'T KNOW WHEN IS THE LOWEST

[Shanhz]

Dare not to put too much in it. I guess property is more straight forward. At least house dun disppear overnight. Hehe. In a way it's like a force savings.


bro, this is my view too. that's why i have quit stocks. ppty is like forced savings to me. of coz there are other tools. the illiquid nature of ppty works both ways.

[Shanhz]

Sorry typo error. It should be 1000 lots , not 10,000 lots.
1000 [email protected] ([email protected]) = $60k.

Stock mkt correction are a natural part of the stock mkt cycle. Every year they will be 1 to 2 correction in the stock mkt. Every few years, there will be a major crash in the stock mkt. Be different against the herd using simple investment principles. EXTREME FEAR INDEX. This require PATIENCE.

bro, i have been investing in the stock mkt for 12 yrs, so i know exactly what you mean. extreme FEAR is the time to buy. however, timing the mkt is difficult. unless you have strong discipline to do regular savings plan and average costing.

quote example of myself: i set target to enter STI at 1,200 points during lehman crisis. it never happened. at 1,500 (if i rem correctly), mkt reversed. not enuff bullet to buy so much on the way down.

conclusion: for the more "layman" type who are not well versed in stk mkt, and who have decent holding power, ppty is still sure win.

[Shanhz]

I tried googling about osim's past but I can't find much info of its past history and why its price could drop so low at that time.
Any idea what happened?
I like history..... it is very insightful.

i was watching osim from top to bottom. i can tell you - at bottom, you WILL NOT DARE to buy osim. we are not talking abt SGX or Singtel or OCBC at the bottom. CONFIRM AND CHOP osim at the bottom, i have no balls to buy.

[Shanhz]

If U bought Microsoft stock US$1000 in 1986. It is worth > US$10 million. So investing dont need to come out big capital.

rdgs,
Vic

bro, not trying to pour cold water. how many had the foresight to pick microsoft (out of sooooo many other stocks) to buy at that point in time? this is 20/20 lor. just like apple at its lowest pt. would you have whack it? possibly not. stock mkt investing is not for everyone.

[Shanhz]

Out of every success stock story (like microsoft), there are many many more others failed.

If one had invested in Chartered Semi or Creative, both are so called darlings of stock market. How now?

stock market is stochastic hence is gambling, no doubt a more atas form of gambling.

Property investment is like a form of savings. If the share price crash, it will be a worthless piece of data (yes, not even PAPER because now everything online). If property price crash, it is still tangible. Still there even if price crash to zero dollar. Very simple concept actually.

totally agree.

in my younger days, i bot $16 creative. eventually sold at $8. when i bot, i was tinking, peak $64, what is $16? cheap man.

[sherlock]

i was watching osim from top to bottom. i can tell you - at bottom, you WILL NOT DARE to buy osim. we are not talking abt SGX or Singtel or OCBC at the bottom. CONFIRM AND CHOP osim at the bottom, i have no balls to buy.
Agree. On hindsight its very easy to say why never buy @ 0.06 :doh:

I have friends working in osim... and even then, they sold at 20 cents!!! I believe no one would bought at 0.06 and still keeping unless u are Ron Sim :banghead:

[Shanhz]

Agree. On hindsight its very easy to say why never buy @ 0.06 :doh:

I have friends working in osim... and even then, they sold at 20 cents!!! I believe no one would bought at 0.06 and still keeping unless u are Ron Sim :banghead:

yeah, if me, i bot at 6c, already let go at 12c and happy like bird.

that's what i meant when i say the illiquid nature of ppty investment works both ways.

[sherlock]

yeah, if me, i bot at 6c, already let go at 12c and happy like bird.

that's what i meant when i say the illiquid nature of ppty investment works both ways.
200% agree!!

[Laguna]

There is an area of investment known as angel investment.
If you have the connection, shop for these.
But you must know the business.

[buttercarp]

i was watching osim from top to bottom. i can tell you - at bottom, you WILL NOT DARE to buy osim. we are not talking abt SGX or Singtel or OCBC at the bottom. CONFIRM AND CHOP osim at the bottom, i have no balls to buy.

I agree with you, bro.
At the bottom, you won't know whether the company will fold up or not, especially if the company has no influential parent company to back it up.

[Sam88]

yeah, if me, i bot at 6c, already let go at 12c and happy like bird.

that's what i meant when i say the illiquid nature of ppty investment works both ways.
sell 1/2. the other 1/2 free money and wait to cheong. if cheong - u lucky. if never, it was free money anyway. got it!!

[onglai]

Stocks are properties are 2 different class of investment. Both will have their pros and cons and their own wonder stories. I guess we cant take these wonder stories as a yardstick because they only happen once in a blue moon. Other then oppa gangnam style, wat other style does psy have.

[Rosy]

Consider interlace.

Pay up hdb and take 80% loan.

Cheers.

[cbsh38584]

...The guy has 500K after clearing his HDB loan.....if he is a marginal investor, majority are marginal like him......you sound like a broker trying to canvas for client here....nice try.

If he has the intention to buy 1.2m property for investment. His 500k is not enough.

Property $1.2m
Stamp fee = $120k
LTV let say 60%. Come out 40%X1.2m = $480k.
Total need to come out cash 600k.
He got $500k. Do you think it is enough for him to buy $1.2m property ?
If he has the intention to buy smaller unit , like MM. Maybe he can take very long commitment to wait for it to appreciate. He may not able to win against inflation if he choose a lousy location.

Property investment is a serious long term commitment. Dont because your neighbours or friends hv invested. You do not want to lose out & buy blindly without doing a stress test on your financial capablity. U just need a major illness or accident or retrenchment will bring your whole investment in a disaster.


rdgs,
Vic

[cnud]

Properties used to be good because of leveraging. When DP is 20%, an increase of 20% means your ROI is 100%.

Unless LTV 80%, otherwise consider properties only when you believe totally that PSF in Redhill will hit 3000.

[cheerful]

Sori not following this but can we say it shld be 25% in cash & that the 40% is actually comprising of both cash & cpf. Why cash total $600K.

If he has the intention to buy 1.2m property for investment. His 500k is not enough.

Property $1.2m
Stamp fee = $120k
LTV let say 60%. Come out 40%X1.2m = $480k.
Total need to come out cash 600k.
He got $500k. Do you think it is enough for him to buy $1.2m property ?
If he has the intention to buy smaller unit , like MM. Maybe he can take very long commitment to wait for it to appreciate. He may not able to win against inflation if he choose a lousy location.

Property investment is a serious long term commitment. Dont because your neighbours or friends hv invested. You do not want to lose out & buy blindly without doing a stress test on your financial capablity. U just need a major illness or accident or retrenchment will bring your whole investment in a disaster.


rdgs,
Vic

[onglai]

If he has the intention to buy 1.2m property for investment. His 500k is not enough.

Property $1.2m
Stamp fee = $120k
LTV let say 60%. Come out 40%X1.2m = $480k.
Total need to come out cash 600k.
He got $500k. Do you think it is enough for him to buy $1.2m property ?
If he has the intention to buy smaller unit , like MM. Maybe he can take very long commitment to wait for it to appreciate. He may not able to win against inflation if he choose a lousy location.

Property investment is a serious long term commitment. Dont because your neighbours or friends hv invested. You do not want to lose out & buy blindly without doing a stress test on your financial capablity. U just need a major illness or accident or retrenchment will bring your whole investment in a disaster.


rdgs,
Vic

If I take 80% loan, then it shd be enough with abit allowance.

[onglai]

Sori not following this but can we say it shld be 25% in cash & that the 40% is actually comprising of both cash & cpf. Why cash total $600K.

coz my cpf not much left, my wife cpf i dont want to touch. so i am just talking about cash nia

[cbsh38584]

bro, i have been investing in the stock mkt for 12 yrs, so i know exactly what you mean. extreme FEAR is the time to buy. however, timing the mkt is difficult. unless you have strong discipline to do regular savings plan and average costing.

quote example of myself: i set target to enter STI at 1,200 points during lehman crisis. it never happened. at 1,500 (if i rem correctly), mkt reversed. not enuff bullet to buy so much on the way down.

conclusion: for the more "layman" type who are not well versed in stk mkt, and who have decent holding power, ppty is still sure win.


U will know eventually as your grow older & smarter why 10% of the smart investors are very successful in investing.

Why 90% among us are still struggling to earn a decent money for our future retirement fund or for our future genration. I am still learning to be among the 10% smart investors.

We dont need to have a very high IQ in investing. We need to have HIGH EQ. Emotionally steady , calm , strong etc. Be very different from your friends , neighbours, among the herd investors when come to investing.
GREED will bring disaster. EXTREME FEAR bring opportunities. Patience bring profit.


rdgs,
Vic

[Laguna]

U will know eventually as your grow older & smarter why 10% of the smart investors are very successful in investing.

Why 90% among us are still struggling to earn a decent money for our future retirement fund or for our future genration. I am still learning to be among the 10% smart investors.

We dont need to have a very high IQ in investing. We need to have HIGH EQ. Emotionally steady , calm , strong etc. Be very different from your friends , neighbours, among the herd investors when come to investing.
GREED will bring disaster. EXTREME FEAR bring opportunities. Patience bring profit.


rdgs,
Vic

Hi Vic
I strongly feel the needs of forming an investment club just for few...we can learn and share with each others

[Simi]

U will know eventually as your grow older & smarter why 10% of the smart investors are very successful in investing.

Why 90% among us are still struggling to earn a decent money for our future retirement fund or for our future genration. I am still learning to be among the 10% smart investors.

We dont need to have a very high IQ in investing. We need to have HIGH EQ. Emotionally steady , calm , strong etc. Be very different from your friends , neighbours, among the herd investors when come to investing.
GREED will bring disaster. EXTREME FEAR bring opportunities. Patience bring profit.


rdgs,
Vic

Hi Vic

agreed with you

am impressed with your FB purchase at USD20

each of us has our own techique and style Or personality on stock pick and stock investment

Using my own style and technical....you have bought FB when it was flashing a "Buy Signal", probably in mid Nov 2012

[Shanhz]

sell 1/2. the other 1/2 free money and wait to cheong. if cheong - u lucky. if never, it was free money anyway. got it!!

i reality, even if i sell half at 12c, the remaining half i would sell at 24c. or maybe remaining 1/4 keep until 40c. in any case, waiting until today is an impossibility unless you are ron.

[Shanhz]

Unless LTV 80%, otherwise consider properties only when you believe totally that PSF in Redhill will hit 3000.

bro, can elaborate on this? why unless LTV 80%? this is higher risk leh.

[onglai]

Consider interlace.

Pay up hdb and take 80% loan.

Cheers.

i just calll up n check, interlace no more 2bedroom, 3bedroom one min area 1600sf (price range from 10xx to 12xx) typical 3 bedroom is 2mil leow...

another 30% discount oso no money buy

:)

[eng81157]

i just calll up n check, interlace no more 2bedroom, 3bedroom one min area 1600sf (price range from 10xx to 12xx) typical 3 bedroom is 2mil leow...

another 30% discount oso no money buy

:)

say your money and go buy carribean lah. its so ugly :doh: :doh:

[cnud]

bro, can elaborate on this? why unless LTV 80%? this is higher risk leh.

Quoting Echelon as example.

Now launch about 1600 psf.. Let's say LTV is 40%. Downpayment is 60%.
You will need the psf to hit 2560 to appreciate 60% which gives you 100% ROI.

Compared to 80% LTV, it only needs to appreciate 20% to give you 100% ROI if downpayment is 20%.

[Vincegoh]

Out of every success stock story (like microsoft), there are many many more others failed.

If one had invested in Chartered Semi or Creative, both are so called darlings of stock market. How now?

stock market is stochastic hence is gambling, no doubt a more atas form of gambling.

Property investment is like a form of savings. If the share price crash, it will be a worthless piece of data (yes, not even PAPER because now everything online). If property price crash, it is still tangible. Still there even if price crash to zero dollar. Very simple concept actually.

never catch a falling knife unless u are very very seasoned trader and has the iron discipline to adhere to your trade setup.

for punters, u will realise that u will run out of bullets way before the market runs out of bottoms.

today's low can be tomorrow's high.. and so on and on. the cycle can run for way longer than your psychological makeup can tahan. tat's why it's easy to say buy at the bottom. question is: when issit the bottom? hindsight is always perfect cos we can sit on our computer and cherry pick the darling stocks like osim.

same as ppty investments, always buy what u can hold.. else most retail clients will throw in the towel when it's at the darkest.

for experienced traders, then of cos different yardstick. have fun! if all else fails, remember to use mopiko when u get itchy fingers syndrome. :D

[Sam88]

osim was whacked by brookstone. the retail biz in us is so bloodly and osim had no knowledge of us market.
osim was saved by the china market.

to play the stock market during a major crisis demands an understanding of the market and policies of the govt, both local and foreign, for the case of Lehman.

bonds were the easiest during that time. investment flight to safety of gold, silver, bonds. now, there is a flight to stock market.

how many got burnt in stocks during Lehman. it is still lingering in their minds. which is why properties make for great investments in their minds.

[focus]

i reality, even if i sell half at 12c, the remaining half i would sell at 24c. or maybe remaining 1/4 keep until 40c. in any case, waiting until today is an impossibility unless you are ron.

I've got nothing of 12yrs exerience in Stocks.
My own noob experience suggests Stocks require lots of monitoring (end of day prices or weekly prices. up to you)
In Osim case, if you really did entered and it went up 100% , you could do three things :-
1) Hold all the way..
2) Sell Half and let the rest run
3) Do (1) or (2) but start setting a TRAILING STOP LOSS of your target (probably 20%).

This way it is more of cut your losses and let your profit run.
Of course, implementing the CUTTING portion takes a lot of discipline.

For the entry part, it's a combination of FA, Trend(gut feel) and Money management(position sizing).

[Shanhz]

Quoting Echelon as example.

Now launch about 1600 psf.. Let's say LTV is 40%. Downpayment is 60%.
You will need the psf to hit 2560 to appreciate 60% which gives you 100% ROI.

Compared to 80% LTV, it only needs to appreciate 20% to give you 100% ROI if downpayment is 20%.

oh yes, talking solely about % of return, agree.
but higher LTV is always higher risk, which means higher return.

[Shanhz]

for punters, u will realise that u will run out of bullets way before the market runs out of bottoms.



this is really classic quote.

[howgozit]

U will know eventually as your grow older & smarter why 10% of the smart investors are very successful in investing.

Why 90% among us are still struggling to earn a decent money for our future retirement fund or for our future genration. I am still learning to be among the 10% smart investors.

We dont need to have a very high IQ in investing. We need to have HIGH EQ. Emotionally steady , calm , strong etc. Be very different from your friends , neighbours, among the herd investors when come to investing.
GREED will bring disaster. EXTREME FEAR bring opportunities. Patience bring profit.


rdgs,
Vic

Easy to say.... so difficult to do.

[cbsh38584]

Hi Vic
I strongly feel the needs of forming an investment club just for few...we can learn and share with each others

Forming investment club is too complex. Everybody has different investment profile , different view , different character etc. Later on, it can be "why didnt U tell me" or "why U keep to yourself", " you are selffish" etc etc.


I do play card ( Dai Ti or big two) with my friends involving money. We can sometimes quarrel over it. The worst is that friend become stranger later on. I like to play Big 2 with friends to find out more about their behaviour involving money. You can never know their behaviour deeply through normal conversation. Wait till you play card with them with money. You will be very surprise their ungentleman behaviour when under stress.

rdgs,
Vic

[Laguna]

Forming investment club is too complex. Everybody has different investment profile , different view , different character etc. Later on, it can be "why didnt U tell me" or "why U keep to yourself", " you are selffish" etc etc.


I do play card ( Dai Ti or big two) with my friends involving money. We can sometimes quarrel over it. The worst is that friend become stranger later on. I like to play Big 2 with friends to find out more about their behaviour involving money. You can never know their behaviour deeply through normal conversation. Wait till you play card with them with money. You will be very surprise their ungentleman behaviour when under stress.

rdgs,
Vic

I agreed. So, nvr talked $ with friends...
Must tap your brain and wisdom...

[cbsh38584]

Easy to say.... so difficult to do.

If nothing is being done now to change our way of herd instinct investment for the past 10 to 20 years.
.
5 to 10 years down the road, there wouldnt be any great improvement in our financial wealth. Continue to work & be contented what we have. Hopefully, no major illness strike on us.

Let see what will happen to my facebook which I hv invested US$2000 in 15 to 20 years time. Will it become US$50k or US$100k or US$500k or US$1m or stagnant at US$3000 ?


rdgs,
Vic

[cbsh38584]

I agreed. So, nvr talked $ with friends...
Must tap your brain and wisdom...

I am no expert or wisdom. So do those Guru who conduct investment seminar.

Many years agao, my friend & I came to know this STOCK GURU through investment seminar. So we decided to engage him to manage for us. Each of us come out 100k for a start. Within week, our portfolio drop by 20%. We were very surprise the stocks he bought for us which most of it are Penny stock. We thought he should buy BLUE CHIP. We later pull out at <15% losses. He is still conducting investment seminar.

Another STOCK GURU, recommends a Penny property counter stock @0.50. He claims that he is holding this "BABY" for long term for his grandson.
It is trading below <0.16. He is still conducting investment seminar every year.

If you will to buy BLUE CHIP at LOW FLOOR (fear price), you will hv a limited downside risk. It give dividend payout every year & normally can ride through the up/down if U are emotionally strong not to let the FEAR frighten you.

I hv made many many mistakes by Investing in high risk product , FX , unit trust , speculative stocks etc. Gone through 97/98 crisis, dot com burst, Sar 2003, Iraq war & 08/09 crisis. Lucky still survive & become more stronger.
I survive because I dare to CUT LOSSes. I tell myself. Enough of those silly mistakes that I made for the past 20 years.

A true stock GURU from taiwan says he only trade 3 to 5 times a year. Do homework 1st what to buy. Strike when fear come.

rdgs,
vic

[Shanhz]

If you will to buy BLUE CHIP at LOW FLOOR (fear price), you will hv a limited downside risk. It give dividend payout every year & normally can ride through the up/down if U are emotionally strong not to let the FEAR frighten you.

I hv made many many mistakes by Investing in high risk product , FX , unit trust , speculative stocks etc. Gone through 97/98 crisis, dot com burst, Sar 2003, Iraq war & 08/09 crisis. Lucky still survive & become more stronger.
I survive because I dare to CUT LOSSes. I tell myself. Enough of those silly mistakes that I made for the past 20 years.

A true stock GURU from taiwan says he only trade 3 to 5 times a year. Do homework 1st what to buy. Strike when fear come.

rdgs,
vic

wah bro, this is so true. i have also seen thru' all the pennies and whatever. to me, wan to invest in stocks, best is just whack a few blue chips at FEAR level (ocbc, sgx, etc) and just sit tight. but keep sufficient bullets. you cannot possibly catch the lowest price, so if it goes down more, then buy more. but historical price shld provide some insight (barring major change in business model), previous all time low +20-30% is considered very good entry level already. my personal view.

[Laguna]

I am no expert or wisdom. So do those Guru who conduct investment seminar.

Many years agao, my friend & I came to know this STOCK GURU through investment seminar. So we decided to engage him to manage for us. Each of us come out 100k for a start. Within week, our portfolio drop by 20%. We were very surprise the stocks he bought for us which most of it are Penny stock. We thought he should buy BLUE CHIP. We later pull out at <15% losses. He is still conducting investment seminar.

Another STOCK GURU, recommends a Penny property counter stock @0.50. He claims that he is holding this "BABY" for long term for his grandson.
It is trading below <0.16. He is still conducting investment seminar every year.

If you will to buy BLUE CHIP at LOW FLOOR (fear price), you will hv a limited downside risk. It give dividend payout every year & normally can ride through the up/down if U are emotionally strong not to let the FEAR frighten you.

I hv made many many mistakes by Investing in high risk product , FX , unit trust , speculative stocks etc. Gone through 97/98 crisis, dot com burst, Sar 2003, Iraq war & 08/09 crisis. Lucky still survive & become more stronger.
I survive because I dare to CUT LOSSes. I tell myself. Enough of those silly mistakes that I made for the past 20 years.

A true stock GURU from taiwan says he only trade 3 to 5 times a year. Do homework 1st what to buy. Strike when fear come.

rdgs,
vic

ya, those so called "investment guru", "property investment guru" are all the way out to make money. There was once, this so called guru, trying to be smart Alex, did a live trade in the pre-seminar sale, I asked him to take big big position and got burnt. Anyone, trying to show his history of trading also kanna whacked from me....

I had similar experience like yours. There was once, I traded without stop, and ended up very costly lessons to me. After being a trader for quite some time, I decided this is not the life I want.

I also traded penny stocks during the days before CLOB closing, managed to close all positions before the CLOB closed.

It was a very long and costly journey to me to learn what is investment. I am now teaching my children my mistakes.

[cbsh38584]

ya, those so called "investment guru", "property investment guru" are all the way out to make money. There was once, this so called guru, trying to be smart Alex, did a live trade in the pre-seminar sale, I asked him to take big big position and got burnt. Anyone, trying to show his history of trading also kanna whacked from me....

I had similar experience like yours. There was once, I traded without stop, and ended up very costly lessons to me. After being a trader for quite some time, I decided this is not the life I want.

I also traded penny stocks during the days before CLOB closing, managed to close all positions before the CLOB closed.

It was a very long and costly journey to me to learn what is investment. I am now teaching my children my mistakes.

For the last 3 yrs, I only buy blue chip with DIVIDEND. Buy only at FEAR price.

I have planned to buy 1 lot each for all the PENNY stocks that I hv invested & lose alot of money. Going to laminate the contract slip & serve it as a reminder as well as teaching my children the mistakes I hv made.

Property is a good investment for long term. I hv made money from property. Now it seem that it is only for those who are really cash rich to go into property.


rdgs,
Vic

[onglai]

ya, those so called "investment guru", "property investment guru" are all the way out to make money. There was once, this so called guru, trying to be smart Alex, did a live trade in the pre-seminar sale, I asked him to take big big position and got burnt. Anyone, trying to show his history of trading also kanna whacked from me....

I had similar experience like yours. There was once, I traded without stop, and ended up very costly lessons to me. After being a trader for quite some time, I decided this is not the life I want.

I also traded penny stocks during the days before CLOB closing, managed to close all positions before the CLOB closed.

It was a very long and costly journey to me to learn what is investment. I am now teaching my children my mistakes.

gurus conduct seminars because they get better returns from teaching then using the system they founded, which means the standard of the system is......

[roly8]

For the last 3 yrs, I only buy blue chip with DIVIDEND. Buy only at FEAR price.

I have planned to buy 1 lot each for all the PENNY stocks that I hv invested & lose alot of money. Going to laminate the contract slip & serve it as a reminder as well as teaching my children the mistakes I hv made.

Property is a good investment for long term. I hv made money from property. Now it seem that it is only for those who are really cash rich to go into property.


rdgs,
Vic

do you support average down (eg. reinvest with dividend as a form of compounding?)

[onglai]

For the last 3 yrs, I only buy blue chip with DIVIDEND. Buy only at FEAR price.

I have planned to buy 1 lot each for all the PENNY stocks that I hv invested & lose alot of money. Going to laminate the contract slip & serve it as a reminder as well as teaching my children the mistakes I hv made.

Property is a good investment for long term. I hv made money from property. Now it seem that it is only for those who are really cash rich to go into property.


rdgs,
Vic

i tink everyone need to have their foot stepped into coffin before they know what is fear. the new investors may learn about the dangers of penny stocks, but the moment they see their blue chips appreciate by 20%, but the pennies go up 100% or even 200%, they will be shaken and let greed will take over everything... er.... actually i am talking about myself.. :)

[chiaberry]

do you support average down (eg. reinvest with dividend as a form of compounding?)

For the blue chips, that is a good option. What my dad does with OCBC is he also tops up to round number of lots by buying more shares when he sees how many shares he is allocated under DRIP.

For me, in my UK stock portfolio, I accumulate the dividends of all the shares over a period of time, then I choose whether to reinvest in one of the stocks already in my portfolio or I choose a new stock if there is a good buying opportunity.

I also tend to buy stocks with reasonable dividend yields. I tend to look out for "bad news" on stocks where they drop a lot and then pick up the stocks at fire sales. But you have to be careful which stocks you pick for this, as there can be a risk the company could go bust. It has happened to me a few times, but fortunately, the capital gains and reinvested dividends on the rest of the portfolio has made up for these unfortunate incidents.

You have to look at your portfolio as a whole and not look at individual stocks and you have to look at it over a long period of time and not day by day or you will not be able to sleep peacefully. It has taken me a long time to accept this.

[roly8]

okay thanks alot.:o