View Full Version : Tharman going after high end properties investor /owner
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 16:10
As expected ... CM7.5 .. landed property gets bashing (saving to lower end means??)
DPM Tharman: Top 1% (12,000) of owner-occupied residential properties will have higher taxes. However, 950k lower-end units will have savings. Eg: A landed property in central area with annual value of $150,000 will see an increase in property tax of $5,120 per year.
investment property tax is even worse !!! :banghead:
New marginal property tax rates of 12% to 20% for investment properties
heng, i am poor folk. not affected. Good thing about being contended
In the scheme of things, 5k increase is small change to these households. I dun mind paying such taxes if I could afford those properties!
As expected ... CM7.5 .. landed property gets bashing (saving to lower end means??)
DPM Tharman: Top 1% (12,000) of owner-occupied residential properties will have higher taxes. However, 950k lower-end units will have savings. Eg: A landed property in central area with annual value of $150,000 will see an increase in property tax of $5,120 per year.
investment property tax is even worse !!! :banghead:
New marginal property tax rates of 12% to 20% for investment properties
Lol..... OCR huat.... at least government being fair now....
Everytime CCR huat, then they are really too elitist.
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 16:33
Property tax is immaterial. Just to con the people who don't know. The $150k AV landed property is a GCB and property tax is only $5k. Does it matter?
Like that OCR huat? People in CCR playing a totally different ballgame. At most they buy 1 less Channel bag. Life goes on.
Lol..... OCR huat.... at least government being fair now....
Everytime CCR huat, then they are really too elitist.
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 16:41
And only 12,000 properties and top 1% of property is affected. which means ALMOST ALL ARE GCB. All those condos in whatever R be it OCR or CCR CANNOT MAKE IT and will not be subject to higher taxes.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 16:42
Property tax is immaterial. Just to con the people who don't know. The $150k AV landed property is a GCB and property tax is only $5k. Does it matter?
but if you stay in CCR and own a few CCR as investment will pay more tax right??
it is the overall impact mah
Like that OCR huat? People in CCR playing a totally different ballgame. At most they buy 1 less Channel bag. Life goes on.
Ok, wrong word.
Here's the better analogy.
OCR got a paper cut, CCR lost a kidney.... but CCR very rich can buy kidney transplant from black market.
:cheers1:
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 16:43
i think not material lor. Just to appease the people with a rule that seems punishing to the "rich" but in reality is not :)
but if you stay in CCR and own a few CCR as investment will pay more tax right??
it is the overall impact mah
And only 12,000 properties and top 1% of property is affected. which means ALMOST ALL ARE GCB. All those condos in whatever R be it OCR or CCR CANNOT MAKE IT and will not be subject to higher taxes.
Singapore has 12,000 GCBs?
Wow, sorry I'm mountain tortoise.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 16:44
And only 12,000 properties and top 1% of property is affected. which means ALMOST ALL ARE GCB. All those condos in whatever R be it OCR or CCR CANNOT MAKE IT and will not be subject to higher taxes.
are u sure? news said there are 2 more bands created i.e. 8% and 16% for owner occupied properties and 12-20% marginal tax rate for investment properties
:tsk-tsk:
Lol...yes that looks like a better analogy!
Ok, wrong word.
Here's the better analogy.
OCR got a paper cut, CCR lost a kidney.... but CCR very rich can buy kidney transplant from black market.
:cheers1:
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 16:46
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/owner-prop-tax.jpg
investment property tax:
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/non-owner-prop-tax.jpg
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 16:52
Oops. Sorry, thought it was 1,200.
But frankly, I still think it's not that material. To really hurt the "rich" is to make the income tax more progressive. Currently the income tax hurts the middle class the most.
I know one reaches max tax bracket (20%) with an income of only $400k or so. That's really not fair for those earning $400-$500k because these are only middle class and yet got taxed the highest bracket- same as those making millions. What the government really should do is to charge higher tax rates for those earning MILLIONS per year. Times have changed and earning $500k is mere middle class - and civil servants and Ministers and bankers are paid millions. So a more progressive tax system with those earning in excess of millions say 30% tax or so should work. And use the money to help the poor.
Singapore has 12,000 GCBs?
Wow, sorry I'm mountain tortoise.
Hmm the new rules mean that since I own an HDB (rented out) and live in private, and already pay investment rate for both, I will kena a double increment (each property's tax increases) right?
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 16:55
Not material lah... who cares about a few hundred or thousand increase in property tax per year?
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/owner-prop-tax.jpg
investment property tax:
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/non-owner-prop-tax.jpg
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 16:59
wow Wild Falcon .. earning 500k is middle class ... your standard really atas ... are u hinting you are "middle class" :p
Your annual income of $300,000
is higher than 96.5% of all resident taxpayers.
if a salesman like Cecilia I can understand :p
clap clap clap :tongue3:
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:04
Oops. Sorry, thought it was 1,200.
But frankly, I still think it's not that material. To really hurt the "rich" is to make the income tax more progressive. Currently the income tax hurts the middle class the most.
I know one reaches max tax bracket (20%) with an income of only $400k or so. That's really not fair for those earning $400-$500k because these are only middle class and yet got taxed the highest bracket- same as those making millions. What the government really should do is to charge higher tax rates for those earning MILLIONS per year. Times have changed and earning $500k is mere middle class - and civil servants and Ministers and bankers are paid millions. So a more progressive tax system with those earning in excess of millions say 30% tax or so should work. And use the money to help the poor.
I agree with Wild falcon.
Earning $400-500k per year IS middle class!
You are comfortable but you need to watch what you spend and if you have kids studying abroad, you cannot think of living luxuriously.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 17:07
I agree with Wild falcon.
Earning $400-500k per year IS middle class!
You are comfortable but you need to watch what you spend and if you have kids studying abroad, you cannot think of living luxuriously.
there is a diff between one person earning 500k and family earning 500k u know :rolleyes:
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:07
"An angel takes the human form: listen not to the bird in the sky, but the ghost walking on earth. for angels walks on Earth as spirits, not fly as birds in the sky"
-wise words by BJ21T
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:08
"An angel takes the human form: listen not to the bird in the sky, but the ghost walking on earth. for angels walks on Earth as spirits, not fly as birds in the sky"
-wise words by BJ21T
WOAHAHEHEHEHEHE
I AM SO HANDSOME.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 17:09
"An angel takes the human form: listen not to the bird in the sky, but the ghost walking on earth. for angels walks on Earth as spirits, not fly as birds in the sky"
-wise words by BJ21T
I really feel sad today ... when 500k personal income is considered middle class ... how about this family? No wonder Ngiam Tong Dow said the coming riot is not racial/religion rather it is rich vs poor
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/imagecache/story-gallery-featured/lowincome2302e.jpg
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:09
WOAHAHEHEHEHEHE
I AM SO HANDSOME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt13OAYXhPU
NOW YOU BELIEVE I GOT 3 EYES LIAO BO ?
Wow ccr kana liao
yea..
ccr property's tax up by so much!! :scared-5:
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:10
I really feel sad today ... when 500k personal income is considered middle class ... how about this family?
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/imagecache/story-gallery-featured/lowincome2302e.jpg
Dun worry about it, good brother. in time soon to come, you will be able to see clearly :)
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:11
there is a diff between one person earning 500k and family earning 500k u know :rolleyes:
Ya. Thanks for pointing out the obvious which may sometimes be overlooked.
So if one person earn 500k per year and has 8 children and a non working spouse, it is almost the same as a person earning 150k per year with a non working spouse and 1 child.
I was really hoping that they would extend child income tax relief for working fathers.
I agree with Wild falcon.
Earning $400-500k per year IS middle class!
You are comfortable but you need to watch what you spend and if you have kids studying abroad, you cannot think of living luxuriously.
:eek::eek:
jiejie, don't tell me pple around you are earning this range?
:ashamed1:
WOW! Amazing there are people who feel that $500,000 income a year is middle class!! And to think that Mitt Romney's got villified and mocked last year for saying that middle class income is $250,000 a year!!! The averrage American family, by the way, makes $50,000 a year. Don't have the stats for S'pore but . . . . half a million a year is middle class? Seriously . . . Singapore boleh!
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:21
:eek::eek:
jiejie, don't tell me pple around you are earning this range?
:ashamed1:
I dunno what they earn leh, but I guess guess only.
Some of them still stay in HDB, some in OCR condo, and they drive simple Japanese cars so I guess they are middle class cos they don't stand out.
The upper class will stay in CCR condo and large landed and drive luxury cars.
Now you know which forum the millionaires are hanging out in.;)
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:22
I dunno what they earn leh, but I guess guess only.
Some of them still stay in HDB, some in OCR condo, and they drive simple Japanese cars so I guess they are middle class cos they don't stand out.
The upper class will stay in CCR condo and large landed and drive luxury cars.
You are so pretty, sister :)
FYI, my MMs AV history
D08 $22000
D15 $17400
D19 $19200
MM HUAT ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:23
WOW! Amazing there are people who feel that $500,000 income a year is middle class!! And to think that Mitt Romney's got villified and mocked last year for saying that middle class income is $250,000 a year!!! The averrage American family, by the way, makes $50,000 a year. Don't have the stats for S'pore but . . . . half a million a year is middle class? Seriously . . . Singapore boleh!
The cost of living in Singapore is much higher than the cost of living in America.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 17:23
Dun worry about it, good brother. in time soon to come, you will be able to see clearly :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a_Iy3VoWJM
Slumdog Millionaire is a joke ... here in Singapore 2y of middle class pay enough liao ... :tongue3:
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:24
FYI, my MMs AV history
D08 $22000
D15 $17400
D19 $19200
MM HUAT ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HUAT ARHHHHHH! What did I told u when u got so worried for nothing?
WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHEHHEHE
I handsome bo ? handsome bo ? come, praise me leh.
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:25
The cost of living in Singapore is much higher than the cost of living in America.
The whole planet is converging on Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai. It is sad to see people going in the opposite direction instead la.
WOAHAHHEHEHEHEHHEHEH
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:25
You are so pretty, sister :)
LOL.... now then you realized arh , my handsome bro ;) .
But frankly I really appreciate your 3rd eye.
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 17:26
Not nice one, noone say I handsome, I go liao la :(
:simmering: :simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
thomastansb
25-02-13, 17:33
Agree. The first is very rich. The second is rich.
there is a diff between one person earning 500k and family earning 500k u know :rolleyes:
The cost of living in Singapore is much higher than the cost of living in America.
Yes agree....my ex-classmate who is in a similar line to me working in the US was asked recently, how long does it take you to pay off your house (in US)? He said for his current property, one and a half years. This is a landed property with garden. Good thing he didn't ask me the same question. It would be :confused: That is just the house. What about the car? Our COE alone can buy how many cars in the US?
Seriously the cost of the big ticket items in US cannot compare to SG.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 17:35
Yes agree....my ex-classmate who is in a similar line to me working in the US was asked recently, how long does it take you to pay off your house (in US)? He said for his current property, one and a half years. This is a landed property with garden. Good thing he didn't ask me the same question. It would be :confused: That is just the house. What about the car? Our COE alone can buy how many cars in the US?
Seriously the cost of the big ticket items in US cannot compare to SG.
sis chiaberry, Singapore = Manhattan = Shanghai = Beijing = Hong Kong
US landed property in suburb can pay 1.5y, if landed in Manhanttan where can??
If Singapore land is 3x bigger .. I am sure you can find a landed 500k only (which is 1y pay of a "middle class" anyway)
I'm fainting. Didnt realised I was under-paid all the years :scared-4: And to think earning 500k pa is MIDDLE-CLASS
So now I am a peasant with a minisule passive income :D
HUAT ARHHHHHH! What did I told u when u got so worried for nothing?
WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHEHHEHE
I handsome bo ? handsome bo ? come, praise me leh.
Of coz.... you HANDSOMEREST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HUAT ARHHHHHH! What did I told u when u got so worried for nothing?
WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHEHHEHE
I handsome bo ? handsome bo ? come, praise me leh.
Post your Peekture and I will lavish some praise!
i think not material lor. Just to appease the people with a rule that seems punishing to the "rich" but in reality is not :)
Ur right. 9k add tax per yr is really NOTHING to them la!
Only in % terms look like whoa 60%
bro ghost, thank you for sharing the rate tables.
Where did you find that? Or you created it?
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:42
Not nice one, noone say I handsome, I go liao la :(
:simmering: :simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
I said already mah.
See the post just prior to your post.
buttercarp
25-02-13, 17:45
Ur right. 9k add tax per yr is really NOTHING to them la!
Only in % terms look like whoa 60%
Yalor.... thanks for highlighting that.
If one looks at the surface, it is like whoa finally the rich bears the brunt of high tax, but actually it is just a small % of what they own lah.
Small peanuts nia.
Hmm the new rules mean that since I own an HDB (rented out) and live in private, and already pay investment rate for both, I will kena a double increment (each property's tax increases) right?
You should apply owner occupier rate 4% for your condo residence.
Yalor.... thanks for highlighting that.
If one looks at the surface, it is like whoa finally the rich bears the brunt of high tax, but actually it is just a small % of what they own lah.
Small peanuts nia.
small or big peanuts still peanuts la... or maybe should say small peanuts or big chestnuts !
anyway friend was just complaining to me... but i am like very blur... pay and pay lor. we are all conditioned already like that proverbial frog in that slow boiling soup. no choice... my friend said he has choice, can sell everything and run.
So our profit margin affected. Can we recover from tenant? Hee hee
Mm will b more in demand now, in terms of prop tax there are not affected at all
FYI, my MMs AV history
D08 $22000
D15 $17400
D19 $19200
MM HUAT ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why huat? AV will drop so less tax?
So our profit margin affected. Can we recover from tenant? Hee hee
Mm will b more in demand now, in terms of prop tax there are not affected at all
With CM7, how many in this forum are buying another investment property??? Hahahahahaha. What does this mean to the rental market????
Did u read the Sunday times on CEO waiting table? Tung Lok not expanding? No capability to come out new dishes? What is the paper trying to tell you???
So in a couple of years, if everything is constant, what will happen to rental market???
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
Xmm catch no ball here ... :ashamed1:
So our profit margin affected. Can we recover from tenant? Hee hee
Mm will b more in demand now, in terms of prop tax there are not affected at all
i guess everyone will attempt to recover from tenant by increasing rent. tenant will of course have other choices to choose from, esp over the next few years with more new completions.
Xmm catch no ball here ... :ashamed1:
He does not suffer increase in tax:D
He does not suffer increase in tax:D
So MM tax remain the same be it CCR RCR OCR?
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 18:21
So MM tax remain the same be it CCR RCR OCR?
yes, that is my reading also. maybe only very slight la. but my advice is to keep silence on MM from now on, i dun mean here but outside when u meet other real life friends or the mass media.
With CM7, how many in this forum are buying another investment property??? Hahahahahaha. What does this mean to the rental market????
Did u read the Sunday times on CEO waiting table? Tung Lok not expanding? No capability to come out new dishes? What is the paper trying to tell you???
So in a couple of years, if everything is constant, what will happen to rental market???
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
bro chestnut, i was thinking of you when i wrote small peanuts or big chestnuts and here you are :D really long life :D
less people buy ==> more people rent.
but less workers ===> less people rent.
however more qualified people come ===> mass market rental still good.
however property tax hikes ===> rental cooling measure ===> yield gets hammered.
correct or not?
waiting for bro chestnut to mark ... :)
Why huat? AV will drop so less tax?
Huat because MM will increase in demand and prices will trend up.
And as an asset class it continues to be relevant for the astute (ngeow ji) investor.
yes, that is my reading also. maybe only very slight la. but my advice is to keep silence on MM from now on, i dun mean here but outside when u meet other real life friends or the mass media.
Here we share good money making lobang. Outside??? dan ku ku lor....
They are not initiated into the 'circle'
Property tax is immaterial. Just to con the people who don't know. The $150k AV landed property is a GCB and property tax is only $5k. Does it matter?Its $5k more but yes its really just loose change for these folks... lol.. however, govt smart, coz can get couple of millions from these group of home owners...
He does not suffer increase in tax:D
no wonder my friend complaining so much... his increase in tax is almost at the top of the table. understand the power of mm now - whether single or multiples.
A Owner of 10 MM n a owner of a landed ? :D
no wonder my friend complaining so much... his increase in tax is almost at the top of the table. understand the power of mm now - whether single or multiples.
Yep. Have repeated multiple times in both my Community Service series and Eats Shoots and Lives.
Now things are speaking for themselves.
Did you even hear Minister say 3M?
I did.
Medisave, Medishield, Medifund la. LOL
Bro, the govt is now selective of who they bring in. Think sign on in early days(pension scheme, then 6 yr contract, then less, then don't want u).
Think why cm7, restricting of investment ownership, if not price will cheong.
bro chestnut, i was thinking of you when i wrote small peanuts or big chestnuts and here you are :D really long life :D
Property tax hike is minimal. Minimal pain. The pain is felt by the people who have 1 unit to stay and those with 1 unit and 1 investment. Every new condo of 1 mil will result in 70k or 100k respectively. Faint. I will take property tax hike anyday.
less people buy ==> more people rent.
but less workers ===> less people rent.
however more qualified people come ===> mass market rental still good.
however property tax hikes ===> rental cooling measure ===> yield gets hammered.
correct or not?
waiting for bro chestnut to mark ... :)
All game over. Hv to move to exit door
Govt just doing what the masses asked for and giving them what they want.
All game over. Hv to move to exit door
1 way up..:scared-2:
Here we share good money making lobang. Outside??? dan ku ku lor....
They are not initiated into the 'circle'
ya lor. outside everywhere PAP bashing. here still got supporter still surviving.
all stop buying , don't let the gov take your hard earned $$...
:simmering:
all stop buying , don't let the gov take your hard earned $$...
:simmering:
Bro, that's the govt intent. First timers will benefit. Those who did not buy investment properties will now be an expert in stocks, bonds, etf, dual currency. Relationship banking will prosper because Singaporeans don't know how invest. Those who have invested, consider yourself LUCKY.
mcm, u HUAT. MM will continue to cheong. MM at 600k, damage is 60k. Condo of 1 mil, damage is 100k. 60 k easier to swallow. See all the low quantum condos being snapped up. If u buy sentosa say at 4 mil, absd is a whooping 400k. Haven't include 3% standard tax. Hahahaha
All game over. Hv to move to exit door
Move to overseas investment. E.g. KL.
Bro, that's the govt intent. First timers will benefit. Those who did not buy investment properties will now be an expert in stocks, bonds, etf, dual currency. Relationship banking will prosper because Singaporeans don't know how invest. Those who have invested, consider yourself LUCKY.
mcm, u HUAT. MM will continue to cheong. MM at 600k, damage is 60k. Condo of 1 mil, damage is 100k. 60 k easier to swallow. See all the low quantum condos being snapped up. If u buy sentosa say at 4 mil, absd is a whooping 400k. Haven't include 3% standard tax. Hahahaha
:cheers1: bro nutnut :cheers1:
Lol..... OCR huat.... at least government being fair now....
Everytime CCR huat, then they are really too elitist.
huat? hah hah...
Govt intent? Maybe, but that explain why Malaysia , KL, Iskandar project will be very hot next few weeks to years ahead.
Compare invest in Singapore vs Malaysia now, it a clear cut answer, hope this not "Govt intent" too :rolleyes:
Bro, that's the govt intent. First timers will benefit. Those who did not buy investment properties will now be an expert in stocks, bonds, etf, dual currency. Relationship banking will prosper because Singaporeans don't know how invest. Those who have invested, consider yourself LUCKY.
mcm, u HUAT. MM will continue to cheong. MM at 600k, damage is 60k. Condo of 1 mil, damage is 100k. 60 k easier to swallow. See all the low quantum condos being snapped up. If u buy sentosa say at 4 mil, absd is a whooping 400k. Haven't include 3% standard tax. Hahahaha
proud owner
25-02-13, 20:12
Bro, that's the govt intent. First timers will benefit. Those who did not buy investment properties will now be an expert in stocks, bonds, etf, dual currency. Relationship banking will prosper because Singaporeans don't know how invest. Those who have invested, consider yourself LUCKY.
mcm, u HUAT. MM will continue to cheong. MM at 600k, damage is 60k. Condo of 1 mil, damage is 100k. 60 k easier to swallow. See all the low quantum condos being snapped up. If u buy sentosa say at 4 mil, absd is a whooping 400k. Haven't include 3% standard tax. Hahahaha
bro
i have a slightly different perspective
i dont think first timer really benefit ..
not that they are buying any cheaper ...
govt is holding the hands and legs of the rest and letting first timer buy
after they buy what happens ? prices will not see appreciation like how it used to ...
in effect they are buying at the high and probably wont see much paper gain for the next few years ..
unlike in the past .. we literally see profit every mth
Govt just doing what the masses asked for and giving them what they want.
yes. and with that will induce inflation. like it or not the people who ask for what they want donno what they are asking for.
without skill set increase they wont last after 3 yrs.. if not consumers will have to pay a hefty price for it.
So to me the writing is on the wall. be prepared for increase in price in yrs a ahead coz we want to see less FT. And want wage increase.
So construction worker levy increase. Min wage for Spass 2.2K up from 2K. wage increase up to pm salary of 4K 30% for 3ys government funded. after 3 yrs? business close go JB? or fire the guy? or pass the cost to consumer?
take ur pick.
Govt intent? Maybe, but that explain why Malaysia , KL, Iskandar project will be very hot next few weeks to years ahead.
Compare invest in Singapore vs Malaysia now, it a clear cut answer, hope this not "Govt intent" too :rolleyes:
Bro, govt must take care of Singaporeans rite. What is the bare minimum aspiration of the typical Singaporean.
- condo
- car
so for condo, they made it possible for first timers. If not everyone will buy to invest rite. Too bad for those who did not catch the boat. Now how, price hold steady or drop abit rite. But cannot invest Liao. Price drop 5 % still more expensive to buy with absd of 7 for second and 10% for third and above. Hahaha. For overseas, please be smart and find good financing. If not interest rate will "kill" you. Hahahaha
Govt intent? Maybe, but that explain why Malaysia , KL, Iskandar project will be very hot next few weeks to years ahead.
Compare invest in Singapore vs Malaysia now, it a clear cut answer, hope this not "Govt intent" too :rolleyes:
Malaysia will be a happy camper. all the SME will run to JB and property investor pump $ there..
Complain and complain? end up all suck thumb. now only way? still the same old way. everyone need to improve skill set. pls get ready to work longer. Why? Coz to keep workers in the work force longer dont expect too much benefit in later life. Coz if got benefit why would the older worker come out to work?
Bro, this people said they cannot afford condo. They did not say they want prices to shoot up after they buy rite. So at least their aspiration of staying in condo met rite.
How to have the cake and eat it.
bro
i have a slightly different perspective
i dont think first timer really benefit ..
not that they are buying any cheaper ...
govt is holding the hands and legs of the rest and letting first timer buy
after they buy what happens ? prices will not see appreciation like how it used to ...
in effect they are buying at the high and probably wont see much paper gain for the next few years ..
unlike in the past .. we literally see profit every mth
Malaysia will be a happy camper. all the SME will run to JB and property investor pump $ there..
Complain and complain? end up all suck thumb.
Bro, that again is the intent of govt. shift all "unwanted" stuff up north.
JB is like upcountry.
buttercarp
25-02-13, 20:19
I think the government is trying very hard to protect its citizens from perhaps an impending financial crisis.
CM7, now CM for cars, increase tax on investment properties, etc.
The message is loud and clear : Buy only if you can afford it, don't overstretch.
Bro, that again is the intent of govt. shift all "unwanted" stuff up north.
JB is like upcountry.
true.. but means must improve skill set lor. We sell service.. i.e to region mah.. so if we cost more. them means the expectation of our services will have to be higher end.
those who refuse to move upwards will have to move up north up country too. but then there also pay peanuts ;) :scared-4:
Bro, this people said they cannot afford condo. They did not say they want prices to shoot up after they buy rite. So at least their aspiration of staying in condo met rite.
How to have the cake and eat it.
yeah
want to buy want cheap . buy liao want gain high high? ;) at whose expense ?
true.. but means must improve skill set lor. We sell service.. i.e to region mah.. so if we cost more. them means the expectation of our services will have to be higher end.
those who refuse to move upwards will have to move up north up country too. but then there also pay peanuts ;) :scared-4:
U are rite. We are moving so fast. U either keep up or get left behind. This is a fact. Those who complain will suffer the most. See what happened when they complain they cannot afford condo. Now can afford or not???? Hahahahaha
I think the government is trying very hard to protect its citizens from perhaps an impending financial crisis.
CM7, now CM for cars, increase tax on investment properties, etc.
The message is loud and clear : Buy only if you can afford it, don't overstretch.
Sis, u are so smart. If they don't control all this, a BIG BUBBLE will form. For me, if a bubble form, I will start liquidating. Now at least no need to liquidate. The govt solved my problem. So more good years to come.
:cheers4: :cheers4:
proud owner
25-02-13, 20:28
yeah
want to buy want cheap . buy liao want gain high high? ;) at whose expense ?
right
lets hope the current First time buyers are not thinking that way ... they wont see paper gains in the next few years
I dont understand why singaporeans can rent out hdb and stay in condomium? Anybody care to enlighten me?
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 20:31
there is still a way to benefit from the CMs la...:doh: sigh...
buttercarp
25-02-13, 20:32
Sis, u are so smart. If they don't control all this, a BIG BUBBLE will form. For me, if a bubble form, I will start liquidating. Now at least no need to liquidate. The govt solved my problem. So more good years to come.
:cheers4: :cheers4:
Finally I get an approving nod from you :) .
I still remember the time when you scolded me about not considering taking an equity loan.
After that I went to read up about finances and the stock market.
That was one of my new year resolutions.
I am still learning and observing and trying to absorb info from gurus like you.
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 20:32
there is still a way to benefit from the CMs la...:doh: sigh...
say or dun say leh ?
right
lets hope the current First time buyers are not thinking that way ... they wont see paper gains in the next few years
But they cannot complain rite. Everyone wants affordability. The gains for invest,Ent property is now all in the rental. Hahahaha. Capital gains is now minimal man. Cm7 was the nail. I have already stopped all property investment and moved my investment into something else. Remember, every invest,Ent has a life span. Hahahahahaha. Maximize it when it is high tide. Stop at low tide.
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 20:34
say or dun say leh ?
say dun say say dun say say dun say
:banghead:
i think better dun la....
proud owner
25-02-13, 20:34
there is still a way to benefit from the CMs la...:doh: sigh...
my usual investor friends are telling me that more CMs coming ...maybe in April
something to do with HDB and the COV
anyone any idea ?
there is still a way to benefit from the CMs la...:doh: sigh...
Bro, in everything, there is a benefit.
This CM will benefit those close to me. Hahahaha
my usual investor friends are telling me that more CMs coming ...maybe in April
something to do with HDB and the COV
anyone any idea ?
Bro, so long as got bto, everything fine.
blackjack21trader
25-02-13, 20:36
Bro, in everything, there is a benefit.
This CM will benefit those close to me. Hahahaha
understand completely. dun say hor .
Property tax is immaterial. Just to con the people who don't know. The $150k AV landed property is a GCB and property tax is only $5k. Does it matter?
Yeap.. That is really peanut to them.
proud owner
25-02-13, 20:45
Yeap.. That is really peanut to them.
sorry i do not understand
if AV is 150k ..how can the tax be only 5k ?
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 21:00
The impact is just the INCREASE which is only $5k. Even without the change, also need to pay property tax.
sorry i do not understand
if AV is 150k ..how can the tax be only 5k ?
proud owner
25-02-13, 21:03
The impact is just the INCREASE which is only $5k. Even without the change, also need to pay property tax.
ahhh
so u meant an increase of 5k from the current amt
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 21:08
A person who makes $400k to $600k is at best upper middle class. And someone who earns that amount pays $100k of taxes - its actually very significant. Trust me, nowadays that kind of pay can't bring you a GCB or highly luxurious lifestyle. What I am trying to say is, with many nowadays earning millions, we should make the tax system more progressive, i.e. those earning say more than $1 million, 30% tax for those in excess of a million. I really think times have changed and our taxes unnecessarily penalises the middle class or upper middle class. I am not trying to say reduce the tax rate. I just think the top (those making more than $1 million) should be taxed even more to be equitable.
Bro, go http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Those earning 400k are in the top 2 percentile. How did u derive them to be middle income?
bro, how many GCBs are there? Please take the number and divide by 1 mil dwellings to determine which percentile can afford GCB.
But those earning more than 1 mil, the tax increase will come later. The govt wants the rich to make base camp here. Once all settled, then implementation will begin. Slowly bro. It will happen. Just not now.
A person who makes $400k to $600k is at best upper middle class. And someone who earns that amount pays $100k of taxes - its actually very significant. Trust me, nowadays that kind of pay can't bring you a GCB or highly luxurious lifestyle. What I am trying to say is, with many nowadays earning millions, we should make the tax system more progressive, i.e. those earning say more than $1 million, 30% tax for those in excess of a million. I really think times have changed and our taxes unnecessarily penalises the middle class or upper middle class. I am not trying to say reduce the tax rate. I just think the top (those making more than $1 million) should be taxed even more to be equitable.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 21:18
bro Wild Falcon ... I am sure u and sis buttercarp are very nice people in real life ... however, your definition of middle class is no diff of that PAP candidate Dr Koh when he said everybody has a car, and he / wife each own one ... it will be interpreted badly as arrogant elitists
first of all there is a diff of 500k family income vs individual income ....
then there is a diff btn consistely earning 500k and occassionally earning 500k (e.g. sales, property agent, traders)
if you are saying a CEO/CFO earning consistently year after year min 500k per year is middle class or upper middle class ... then it is definitely not true
you can use this tool to check:
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Your annual income of $500,000
is higher than 98.8% of all resident taxpayers
Your annual income of $400,000
is higher than 98.1% of all resident taxpayers.
how can top 2% of taxpayers are middle class or upper middle class :doh:
I cannot imagine how SC Global must be feeling now given that they have so many high AV units on hand, with few rented out.
princess_morbucks
25-02-13, 21:25
A person who makes $400k to $600k is at best upper middle class. And someone who earns that amount pays $100k of taxes - its actually very significant. Trust me, nowadays that kind of pay can't bring you a GCB or highly luxurious lifestyle. What I am trying to say is, with many nowadays earning millions, we should make the tax system more progressive, i.e. those earning say more than $1 million, 30% tax for those in excess of a million. I really think times have changed and our taxes unnecessarily penalises the middle class or upper middle class. I am not trying to say reduce the tax rate. I just think the top (those making more than $1 million) should be taxed even more to be equitable.
I agree with you Wild Falcon.
I know where you are coming from.
You are just pointing out that why should a person earning $400-600K be subjected to the same tax bracket as those who making millions.
That is the $400-600k earners are the upper middle sandwiched class.
So if you are nearing that income bracket, why not don't work so hard and earn slightly less so that you won't reach that bracket, right?
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04_ektid1190.aspx
I don't get your last statement.
I agree with you Wild Falcon.
I know where you are coming from.
You are just pointing out that why should a person earning $400-600K be subjected to the same tax bracket as those who making millions.
That is the $400-600k earners are the upper middle sandwiched class.
So if you are nearing that income bracket, why not don't work so hard and earn slightly less so that you won't reach that bracket, right?
princess_morbucks
25-02-13, 21:35
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04_ektid1190.aspx
I don't get your last statement.
If you are earning about $320K per year, then work less so that your annual income won't reach $320k, so that you won't get taxed the full 20%.
I agree with you Wild Falcon.
I know where you are coming from.
You are just pointing out that why should a person earning $400-600K be subjected to the same tax bracket as those who making millions.
That is the $400-600k earners are the upper middle sandwiched class.
So if you are nearing that income bracket, why not don't work so hard and earn slightly less so that you won't reach that bracket, right?
Methinks he means the opposite....
If you are earning about $320K per year, then work less so that your annual income won't reach $320k, so that you won't get taxed the full 20%.
But u get 18%. Just 2% less than 20%.
If you are earning about $320K per year, then work less so that your annual income won't reach $320k, so that you won't get taxed the full 20%.
He was talking about $400-600k.... same rate 20%
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 21:39
From what I know, people earning that amount are not that wealthy - unless they are old money. So for someone who reach his mid thirties from a normal family and earning that amount through sheer hard work, it's actually not a big deal and paying $100k of taxes is no joke for someone who earns $500+k. And if you think about it, with an income of $300+k post income tax, is it really that wealthy? I don't think so. And these guys don't deserve to pay the highest tax bracket.
I think if you government is really wants to "hurt" the highest 1% which earns DISPORTIONATELY more than the highest 3%, the best way is NOT to increase property tax by a MERE $5k per year for those living or renting out GCB. What is $5k to these people? The only way is to make sure the top 1-2% pay more taxes. And I'm suggesting the tax should apply to the entire income - just those in excess of say $1 million, like our ministers, our top civil servants, bankers, tycoons etc.
bro Wild Falcon ... I am sure u and sis buttercarp are very nice people in real life ... however, your definition of middle class is no diff of that PAP candidate Dr Koh when he said everybody has a car, and he / wife each own one ... it will be interpreted badly as arrogant elitists
first of all there is a diff of 500k family income vs individual income ....
then there is a diff btn consistely earning 500k and occassionally earning 500k (e.g. sales, property agent, traders)
if you are saying a CEO/CFO earning consistently year after year min 500k per year is middle class or upper middle class ... then it is definitely not true
you can use this tool to check:
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Your annual income of $500,000
is higher than 98.8% of all resident taxpayers
Your annual income of $400,000
is higher than 98.1% of all resident taxpayers.
how can top 2% of taxpayers are middle class or upper middle class :doh:
Oops. Sorry, thought it was 1,200.
But frankly, I still think it's not that material. To really hurt the "rich" is to make the income tax more progressive. Currently the income tax hurts the middle class the most.
I know one reaches max tax bracket (20%) with an income of only $400k or so. That's really not fair for those earning $400-$500k because these are only middle class and yet got taxed the highest bracket- same as those making millions. What the government really should do is to charge higher tax rates for those earning MILLIONS per year. Times have changed and earning $500k is mere middle class - and civil servants and Ministers and bankers are paid millions. So a more progressive tax system with those earning in excess of millions say 30% tax or so should work. And use the money to help the poor. Rich is subjective lah.. u say tax >500K is rich. Next person say tax >400K is rich. Next person say tax >200K is rich. and then we all get whacked.. What the point? As long as you are comfortable with what you get and pay. There is a saying: Don't be happy when neighbor house is getting burned. Next would be yours. I don't even like this hike in property tax. Now 15% becomes a new norm and other people are getting rebate. Later on HDB will be paying 15% and GCB 30%. Will it makes us happy?
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 21:46
There is usually some deductions - so $320k won't hit highest bracket. So from what i know, hitting $400k confirm kena highest bracket liao. Anyway, the top 1% of the tycoons and Ministers and bankers and civil servants and lawyers and specialist doctos should be taxed more. That is one of the ways to reduce income inequality. Or else, this property tax tingy is really negligible...
He was talking about $400-600k.... same rate 20%
say or dun say leh ?
Say leh...
Say lah..
Please say...:)
princess_morbucks
25-02-13, 21:48
But u get 18%. Just 2% less than 20%.
So if earn $320k - tax is $42350
If earn $400 k - tax is $42350 + 16000 = $58350
For extra $80k per year you have to pay $16K extra in tax.
Why not don't work so hard, forfeit the $80k salary and do something which does not incur tax.
Just for discussion only.....
Wondering if it is worth it?
I agree with you Wild Falcon.
I know where you are coming from.
You are just pointing out that why should a person earning $400-600K be subjected to the same tax bracket as those who making millions.
That is the $400-600k earners are the upper middle sandwiched class.
So if you are nearing that income bracket, why not don't work so hard and earn slightly less so that you won't reach that bracket, right?
I thought sarcasm was on the wall?
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 21:49
Bro, that's not the point. It's about taxing the rich to help the poor. I really think the middle class and upper middle class pays a disproportionate amount of tax. What's a few more thousand to someone who earns millions? But it would mean a lot to the poor right? And PAP gives little or no welfare at all. Its about distribution of wealth. And such half-hearted attempt at property tax makes no difference.
Rich is subjective lah.. u say tax >500K is rich. Next person say tax >400K is rich. Next person say tax >200K is rich. and then we all get whacked.. What the point? As long as you are comfortable with what you get and pay. There is a saying: Don't be happy when neighbor house is getting burned. Next would be yours. I don't even like this hike in property tax. Now 15% becomes a new norm and other people are getting rebate. Later on HDB will be paying 15% and GCB 30%. Will it makes us happy?
So if earn $320k - tax is $42350
If earn $400 k - tax is $42350 + 16000 = $58350
For extra $80k per year you have to pay $16K extra in tax.
Why not don't work so hard, forfeit the $80k salary and do something which does not incur tax.
Just for discussion only.....
Wondering if it is worth it?
U pay tax of 16k extra to bring in additional 64k(after tax). U tell me worth it or not? If u say not worth it, I faint. I gladly pay more tax. At least I know I earn more. Hahahahahaha
say or dun say leh ?
PRETTY PLEASE SAY??:beats-me-man:
there is still a way to benefit from the CMs la...:doh: sigh...
DON'T BE SUCH A TEASE, LAH!
DON'T BE SUCH A TEASE, LAH!
I"M TURNING BLUE HOLDING MY BREATH! :confused:
princess_morbucks
25-02-13, 21:54
U pay tax of 16k extra to bring in additional 64k(after tax). U tell me worth it or not? If u say not worth it, I faint.
Of course worth it lah if you are talking purely on earned income.
Otherwise I have to perform CPR on you.
But if you forfeit the $80k by working less but have more time to do other things which you enjoy or invest in other non taxable source of income but with higher risk, I wonder if it is worth it?
DON'T BE SUCH A TEASE, LAH!
I"M TURNING BLUE HOLDING MY BREATH! :confused:
True, many had miss the boat to invest, worst are those who sell and stay at rental condo or HDB... They loss big time. :banghead:
we are happy as did not ask for too much, current 3units are good enough for my family retirement fund :)
Thanks your advise on "good financing", but little choose to choose as all charge between 4.2% to 5%! You got idea how can I save ? Use Singapore bank to save interest while buy overseas property?
However, next month should be buying one unit at Paragon suit@CIQ or Danga Bay / Nusajaya apartment, got to start someway in overseas property investment, some of my friends had already buy landed few years ago, value raise more then 200% -300%, but ----- got price no buyer :beats-me-man:
Interesting ... That will be risk when invest at overseas?
Bro, govt must take care of Singaporeans rite. What is the bare minimum aspiration of the typical Singaporean.
- condo
- car
so for condo, they made it possible for first timers. If not everyone will buy to invest rite. Too bad for those who did not catch the boat. Now how, price hold steady or drop abit rite. But cannot invest Liao. Price drop 5 % still more expensive to buy with absd of 7 for second and 10% for third and above. Hahaha. For overseas, please be smart and find good financing. If not interest rate will "kill" you. Hahahaha
princess_morbucks
25-02-13, 21:56
I"M TURNING BLUE HOLDING MY BREATH! :confused:
You also need CPR?
A person who makes $400k to $600k is at best upper middle class. And someone who earns that amount pays $100k of taxes - its actually very significant. Trust me, nowadays that kind of pay can't bring you a GCB or highly luxurious lifestyle. What I am trying to say is, with many nowadays earning millions, we should make the tax system more progressive, i.e. those earning say more than $1 million, 30% tax for those in excess of a million. I really think times have changed and our taxes unnecessarily penalises the middle class or upper middle class. I am not trying to say reduce the tax rate. I just think the top (those making more than $1 million) should be taxed even more to be equitable.
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
so what u think about what you just posted? EQUITABLE?? to tax someone more just because he earn more? 30% just because someone earns $1m?
Times have indeed changed. All the freaking softies crying out loud, the govt should do this , the govt should do that. Spend some more effort to work hard/work smart/ study harder maybe life will improve. Stop blaming the freaking ant crawling around cos u deserve more!
WELL SAID!!!!!
champion.
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
so what u think about what you just posted? EQUITABLE?? to tax someone more just because he earn more? 30% just because someone earns $1m?
This story below is simplistic.
Obama's plan is not socialistic. But it is painted that way by the Republicans to discredit him... the story below is an example of how ordinary simple-minded Americans can be fooled by simple stories that are not true.
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
so what u think about what you just posted? EQUITABLE?? to tax someone more just because he earn more? 30% just because someone earns $1m?
CondoInterested
25-02-13, 22:08
hmm... so people staying HDB monthly salary max $8000 & below and EC max $10000 & below, annual pay of $100k plus are below mid. class.
Was still reading the first few pages of this thread.
This story below is simplistic.
Obama's plan is not socialistic. But it is painted that way by the Republicans to discredit him... the story below is an example of how ordinary simple-minded Americans can be fooled by simple stories that are not true.
the point is(not talking about Obama) , how can taxing 30% from rich to "help" the poor really help them? u give a dog food enough times, he will come daily at the same time to receive food.
the only true social mobility is education. The desire to succeed only lies on oneself.
Of course worth it lah if you are talking purely on earned income.
Otherwise I have to perform CPR on you.
But if you forfeit the $80k by working less but have more time to do other things which you enjoy or invest in other non taxable source of income but with higher risk, I wonder if it is worth it?
You say u want to be a billionaire. But u willing to throw away additional income of 64k. What investment have u done that has raked in 64k? I will pay tax any day.
So if earn $320k - tax is $42350
If earn $400 k - tax is $42350 + 16000 = $58350
For extra $80k per year you have to pay $16K extra in tax.
Why not don't work so hard, forfeit the $80k salary and do something which does not incur tax.
Just for discussion only.....
Wondering if it is worth it?
The most attractive thing about the Singapore tax structure is that it is flat at 20% beyond $320k...
Why not worth it?..... Its cheap!
Nice one Daytona :)
thanks , just sharing of ideas and infor out there . for personal improvement and sharpening of minds. More debates will be good for mind development
BTW i only disagree with discriminating taxing cos someone is rich, not saying NO or 0 tax for the rich.
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 22:21
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
Anyway, its just a thought. I don't think this will ever happen. The Ministers themselves earn millions, and they would prefer to be in same tax bracket as those making $320k.
I think the government is trying very hard to protect its citizens from perhaps an impending financial crisis.
CM7, now CM for cars, increase tax on investment properties, etc.
The message is loud and clear : Buy only if you can afford it, don't overstretch.
the car CM come too late, a lot of pple riding on the COE bubble now get stuck with high COE cars and no more profit. with a 200k loan on their heads and no way to get rid of the car (since COE will likely go down), be ready to buy some good cars at lelong price
best part garmen guarantee scrap value for the second owner
thanks , just sharing of ideas and infor out there . for personal improvement and sharpening of minds. More debates will be good for mind development
BTW i only disagree with discriminating taxing cos someone is rich, not saying NO or 0 tax for the rich.
That sounds fair only in practice. But the reality is more complicated
Because in order to have a even tax rate for all income groups, then the tax rate may have to increase for the lower income groups.
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
Office Boy knows this best!
Do you know the meaning of having a Senior VP to locate in Singapore ?
Along with it comes many many jobs opportunities for locals.
We are not saying tax the high income earners low, but we have to be mindful of creating a taxation system that drive them away...
It is a delicate balance, and our situation, we rather err on the side of taxing lesser than to drive CEOs away ...
DKSG
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04_ektid1190.aspx
I don't get your last statement.
in my view, those EMPLOYEES earning above $200k or so are the most hit. why? for bosses, their companies are taxed at 17% (headline tax, effective tax might and usually is lower). they can manage their income to the "correct" level and be taxed at company level, then declare dividend to ownself. so bosses are taxed at 17% or lower.
employees who cannot do this, are taxed up to 20%.
tax experts, pls confirm my understanding.
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 22:29
AGREED. Or use shares. No capital gains tax.
in my view, those EMPLOYEES earning above $200k or so are the most hit. why? for bosses, their companies are taxed at 17% (headline tax, effective tax might and usually is lower). they can manage their income to the "correct" level and be taxed at company level, then declare dividend to ownself. so bosses are taxed at 17% or lower.
employees who cannot do this, are taxed up to 20%.
tax experts, pls confirm my understanding.
hmm... so people staying HDB monthly salary max $8000 & below and EC max $10000 & below, annual pay of $100k plus are below mid. class.
Was still reading the first few pages of this thread.
my simplistic view is that household income <$8k belong to 82% of the population.
phantom_opera
25-02-13, 22:29
I agree it may make sense to have less tax for ppl earning 400k+
however in the eyes of middle class earning 100 to 200k, 400k is considered rich already, especially if u are single, cannot afford luxury for a family but if save and invest properly definitely can afford later, the same thing however cannot be said for middle class who earns 100 to 200k
in my view, those EMPLOYEES earning above $200k or so are the most hit. why? for bosses, their companies are taxed at 17% (headline tax, effective tax might and usually is lower). they can manage their income to the "correct" level and be taxed at company level, then declare dividend to ownself. so bosses are taxed at 17% or lower.
employees who cannot do this, are taxed up to 20%.
tax experts, pls confirm my understanding.
Brudder, income is income.... Will be taxed. One way of overcoming is to get wife involved in the biz/family members. Then will spread... Woman are taxed lower because of the tax reliefs available. Hahahaha...
So if u have investment prop, let the wife take bigger share. Hahahaha
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
In Singapore for someone earning $2m a year he is pay his duties of $400,000. Period.
The same person work in London(example only), he pays $800k. to go where? those whom claim social benefits cos they cant find work or no need to find work?
i find the idea of discriminating taxation flawed. Progressive taxation as what we already have, coupled with consumption tax excluding staple food items is what i vote for.
Brudder, income is income.... Will be taxed. One way of overcoming is to get wife involved in the biz/family members. Then will spread... Woman are taxed lower because of the tax reliefs available. Hahahaha...
So if u have investment prop, let the wife take bigger share. Hahahaha
agree. and have more kids la... they are natural tax shelters...
Brudder, income is income.... Will be taxed. One way of overcoming is to get wife involved in the biz/family members. Then will spread... Woman are taxed lower because of the tax reliefs available. Hahahaha...
So if u have investment prop, let the wife take bigger share. Hahahaha
for companies, usually not just the wife hor. everyone else collecting salary. can also form the headcount for CPF, then can employ more foreigners. oops.
investment ppty.. wife gets more? hahaha.. got risk leh.
agree. and have more kids la... they are natural tax shelters...
natural money spenders also.
with kids it is always net outflow lah.
the only thing is the same money you rather spend on which form of nation building only
for companies, usually not just the wife hor. everyone else collecting salary. can also form the headcount for CPF, then can employ more foreigners. oops.
investment ppty.. wife gets more? hahaha.. got risk leh.
When u marry, already got risk. If u cannot trust your wife, who can u trust??? Oops, maybe small 3. Hahahaha
natural money spenders also.
with kids it is always net outflow lah.
the only thing is the same money you rather spend on which form of nation building only
But if u have kids already, u must know how to maximize la. Like lifeline.
Wild Falcon
25-02-13, 22:49
Not discriminating tax LAH. Same progressive tax but moves the progression upwards in line with income levels today. So someone who earns $500k pays say $100k of tax. Someone who earns $2 million, pays $200k tax for his first million and then 25% for his next million= $250k. So in the end he pays $450k instead of $400k. His effective tax rate is still very low at 22.5%. Did you know our tax progression stops at $300k+? That must be very outdated.
In Singapore for someone earning $2m a year he is pay his duties of $400,000. Period.
The same person work in London(example only), he pays $800k. to go where? those whom claim social benefits cos they cant find work or no need to find work?
i find the idea of discriminating taxation flawed. Progressive taxation as what we already have, coupled with consumption tax excluding staple food items is what i vote for.
anyway, just a tip for everyone, esp those who are in jobs that require entertainment. there is actually a certain amt of expenses that are claimable against your personal income. allowable by IRAS one.. no questions asked.
Oops. Sorry, thought it was 1,200.
But frankly, I still think it's not that material. To really hurt the "rich" is to make the income tax more progressive. Currently the income tax hurts the middle class the most.
I know one reaches max tax bracket (20%) with an income of only $400k or so. That's really not fair for those earning $400-$500k because these are only middle class and yet got taxed the highest bracket- same as those making millions. What the government really should do is to charge higher tax rates for those earning MILLIONS per year. Times have changed and earning $500k is mere middle class - and civil servants and Ministers and bankers are paid millions. So a more progressive tax system with those earning in excess of millions say 30% tax or so should work. And use the money to help the poor.
Lets not assume that all gamblers are rich. Its only when the tides are down then we will know who is swimming naked.
Having said that I do agree that the impact is not material, but it will definitely make landed lose more of its shine.
Doesn't make sense, if no income why need to pay tax? How can that be equitable? They should just abolish property tax just like estate duty because as there are many more & more retirees, no income why need to pay tax (property tax)? :doh:
What is equitable is if a person earns more, make sense to pay more tax right? :rolleyes:
In the scheme of things, 5k increase is small change to these households. I dun mind paying such taxes if I could afford those properties!
Are you sure? $5k only? 4% of $150k is already $6k!
Property tax is immaterial. Just to con the people who don't know. The $150k AV landed property is a GCB and property tax is only $5k. Does it matter?
Why should anybody pay property tax when there is no income? Same for GST for basic necessities! Such tax are just not equitable & penalize the retirees & the young & the non-working people! Is it any wonder why people don't give birth to more babies?
Are we going to have head count tax in future because tax revenue not enough because they cut top-tier income tax from 25% to 20%? How about breathing tax, any living human need to pay because the name of govt need to ensure good air quality? (but actually is because they cut top income tax & need to make up from somewhere else, in this the majority of mid & lower incomes!) :doh:
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
Anyway, its just a thought. I don't think this will ever happen. The Ministers themselves earn millions, and they would prefer to be in same tax bracket as those making $320k.
Are you sure? $5k only? 4% of $150k is already $6k!Its $5k more (on top of the existing tax).. :)
NorthernStar
26-02-13, 07:24
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
Anyway, its just a thought. I don't think this will ever happen. The Ministers themselves earn millions, and they would prefer to be in same tax bracket as those making $320k.
I thought Singapore's Tax is progressive?? it's max tax rate @ 20% stop at $320K doesn't mean this is not progressive right? note: this is percentage, you earn $400K, you paid $42350+ $80K*0.2= $58350.(btw not $80K tax) ppl who earn $1Mil need to pay $42350 + $620K*0.2=$166350.. Not fair?? :doh:
A person earning $800, say qualify for about $400 of vouchers, subsidy, food coupons etc.
If he earn $1200 he wont qualify for anything. Would he be motivated to work harder and earn $1200 or maintain status quo to earn $800?
Only if you stay in a HDB flat. People will definitely not sell their hdb flats now.
Why should anybody pay property tax when there is no income? Same for GST for basic necessities! Such tax are just not equitable & penalize the retirees & the young & the non-working people! Is it any wonder why people don't give birth to more babies?
Are we going to have head count tax in future because tax revenue not enough because they cut top-tier income tax from 25% to 20%? How about breathing tax, any living human need to pay because the name of govt need to ensure good air quality? (but actually is because they cut top income tax & need to make up from somewhere else, in this the majority of mid & lower incomes!) :doh:
bro
i have a slightly different perspective
i dont think first timer really benefit ..
not that they are buying any cheaper ...
govt is holding the hands and legs of the rest and letting first timer buy
after they buy what happens ? prices will not see appreciation like how it used to ...
in effect they are buying at the high and probably wont see much paper gain for the next few years ..
unlike in the past .. we literally see profit every mth
what you say is very true about paper gain.. but i thought this is what the gov wants.. if asset continue to increase, the people will make more noise and it will create a lot of unwanted happiness to those MTB, to those already buay song with the gov..
Finally I get an approving nod from you :) .
I still remember the time when you scolded me about not considering taking an equity loan.
After that I went to read up about finances and the stock market.
That was one of my new year resolutions.
I am still learning and observing and trying to absorb info from gurus like you.
hello buttercarp..i also jump onto the bandwagon.. now got 2 equity loans... been reading as the fund coming end of the month... property investment is bye bye for me now...
proud owner is right.
doesn't matter at all who buy property now or later
buying at the high now is definitely not the wisest choice for investment..
it is fine if buy for homestay..
Also
sometimes, it is not about MTB ...it can be not enough bullets to play property :o ..just like me :banghead:
phantom_opera
26-02-13, 08:31
proud owner is right.
doesn't matter at all who buy property now or later
buying at the high now is definitely not the wisest choice for investment..
it is fine if buy for homestay..
Also
sometimes, it is not about MTB ...it can be not enough bullets to play property :o ..just like me :banghead:
I beg to differ, if family median income up 7.5% for another 3y ... then property is affordable right ... now u know what is Kenobi-wan & Tharman up to ... they just want flat growth for 3y
Govt wish for us to DIVERSIFY our investments and income. They don't want a nation hooked on property and thinking that the sky is the limit for property. They want us to invest in other asset classes. We cannot NOT invest as cash kept in the bank will depreciate in value over time.
Too many Singaporeans with good degrees and abilities in various fields had been turning to property and becoming agents or passive landlords. Now they should consider going back into their "old" jobs. Some may have done so already (hellooo......carbuncle where are you?)
Govt wish for us to DIVERSIFY our investments and income. They don't want a nation hooked on property and thinking that the sky is the limit for property. They want us to invest in other asset classes. We cannot NOT invest as cash kept in the bank will depreciate in value over time.
Too many Singaporeans with good degrees and abilities in various fields had been turning to property and becoming agents or passive landlords. Now they should consider going back into their "old" jobs. Some may have done so already (hellooo......carbuncle where are you?)
he got post in this thread (as another nick) ..:D you don't know who meh? :p
Govt wish for us to DIVERSIFY our investments and income. They don't want a nation hooked on property and thinking that the sky is the limit for property. They want us to invest in other asset classes. We cannot NOT invest as cash kept in the bank will depreciate in value over time.
Too many Singaporeans with good degrees and abilities in various fields had been turning to property and becoming agents or passive landlords. Now they should consider going back into their "old" jobs. Some may have done so already (hellooo......carbuncle where are you?)
is there any better alternative investment vehicles for the general public?
Office Boy knows this best!
Do you know the meaning of having a Senior VP to locate in Singapore ?
Along with it comes many many jobs opportunities for locals.
We are not saying tax the high income earners low, but we have to be mindful of creating a taxation system that drive them away...
It is a delicate balance, and our situation, we rather err on the side of taxing lesser than to drive CEOs away ...
DKSG
wah.. champion.. i agree with you as it is happending in our company.. but i know why our CEO prefers to come here... less tax and he is somebody in sg... back in his own country, he is nobody...
but it is true, he comes here, he creates job for SG as he also want to expand his empire.. so win win...
then what happen to the planned "government - inflation linked bond" which Minister of State Lawrence Wong was tasked to moot ?
many talk of alternative investment but nothing did the gov implemented any for us and yet they killing properties invesment.:banghead:
a 5k increased for GCB richie rich is peanuts.
a $300 increased for a 3 bedroom OCR or RCR is a lot in terms of % from rental.
again PAP is squeezing the sandwich class like me.
phantom_opera
26-02-13, 08:47
then what happen to the planned "government - inflation linked bond" which Minister of State Lawrence Wong was tasked to moot ?
many talk of alternative investment but nothing did the gov implemented any for us and yet they killing properties invesment.:banghead:
there is no free lunch in Singapore and sometimes they still want to share your lunch
Of all places this is from a member in a local car forum:
"I got to say - I give it to the incumbent for Budget 2013. They've effectively said heck to votes, I will do the right thing, and if the electorate and business leaders and lobby groups cannot see the wisdom behind our policies, then tough for Singapore. I applaud the Budget.
The policy changes are very drastic but IMO very necessary and about time. Certainly not popularity pandering. It is about shaping behaviors, and setting things right. I think the younger middle class will see the wisdom for our children's sake. IMO this Budget has given very clear direction on the country's fundamentals, much more so than the silly White Paper. Fundamentals of building a strong and robust Singapore core, focus on childcare to help raise TFR, ensure reasonable social equity, financial prudence, high productivity and good jobs, and sustainable quality living for all Singaporeans.
Over the past few weeks, business associations and lobby groups had been speaking out vigorously against foreign worker restrictions and how our jobs and businesses will go bust soon if the government doesn't ease up on levies and quotas. I had been worried that our government had lost its "balls" in standing up against lobby groups for what is right for this country. I applaud the Budget. This government has got balls. This Budget means business for all businesses. Shape up or ship out, if you want to shape up, I'll help you along - that's the message to sectors with low productivity and high inertia. This is serious economic restructuring. Very serious. Some businesses will go bust or pull out of Singapore, and the incumbent is saying "sorry, but you don't fit in our programme, please find alternatives to do your business or earn a living". We must find better business models for companies to provide quality jobs with high productivity. Foreign workers are not the solution. They can augment, but they must not replace us. Stop blaming Singaporeans for not doing "dirty" jobs.
High end cars and properties will be taxed severely. People who actually can't afford cars at crazy high COEs, yet stupidly take on huge cheap loans will be severely restricted and penalized when COE prices drop. People who can't actually afford to live in private property will be taxed more severely. About bloody time. Sorry, but this country's social fabric is more important than individual profits and luxury living. This is a country for goodness sake, not an MNC. You only want dividends and hang out with an elite group with their bungalows, yachts and lambos, please move to London or New York City. Cars and condos and landed properties are a luxury, considering our very limited land. Public housing and public transport problems must be fixed and must be the staple form of day to day living for Singapore. It must be. I oso got to suck it up to higher prices and taxes for higher end cars and property if I want them. If I can't afford a 3L turbo S4 or 335, or a 4,000 square feet landed, then too bad for me. But this is good for the country and good for my kids' future.
We need to relook and redefine what life in Singapore should mean and what matters for our kids. Stop the insane pursuit of elite lifestyles, big cars and big houses. You want it, then pay huge taxes cuz these are not what living in Singapore for the Singaporean core is about. Reasonable social equity is critical. If all we think about is how to get rich and how to ensure our kids get the best grades and qualifications so they can get rich, then let's just forget about being a nation. I'm not interested in bringing new life to such a pathetic country. Just become a Dubai. And one fateful day, the rich-poor divide will shred the country to bits.
The white paper should have come after Budget. But then again, perhaps the huge reactions against the white paper helped shape the Budget announcements today. Whatever the case may be, I applaud the Budget. There will be many who can't sleep well tonight. Some will seriously now worry about basic rice bowl issues, instead of airy fairy ideas of which property launch or car launch to visit this weekend. Many recently bought insanely high COE cars and overpriced private properties against common sense of financial prudence and sustainable lifestyles, against the possibility of serious enforced economic restructuring and potential business failure and job losses, against the possibility that this government can change the rules of the game, for the country's sake, not individual profits. I wish them a very good night. "
Well said.:D
those who already "make it" will be heng. They will think wah, I was born at the right time !
Doesn't make sense, if no income why need to pay tax? How can that be equitable? They should just abolish property tax just like estate duty because as there are many more & more retirees, no income why need to pay tax (property tax)? :doh:
What is equitable is if a person earns more, make sense to pay more tax right? :rolleyes:
the policy now is towards a social society (dough). It will encourage more to go on low income for eg. if you are earning $3500 and have kids to take care. Why not just quit and get dough fr gov ?
and concentrate full time or part time as housewife ? better still downgrade to 3 rm hdb for full benefits.
if you can afford to drive a maserati, what's another 5k worth of car taxes? if you can afford to live in a landed property, what's another 5k worth of taxes?
the rich can jolly well afford it. LTA should start looking into tiered-pricing/taxing mechanisms for household that have multiple cars as well. if a household can afford 2 cars (just like the dr who was almost an MP), you can jolly well afford another 5k worth of taxes too
i suspect the current inflation is peanut ... a mega one will come in next 3-5years time..
:hell-hath-no-fury:
thomastansb
26-02-13, 10:13
Multiple cars owners better. They cause lesser jam on the road.
if you can afford to drive a maserati, what's another 5k worth of car taxes? if you can afford to live in a landed property, what's another 5k worth of taxes?
the rich can jolly well afford it. LTA should start looking into tiered-pricing/taxing mechanisms for household that have multiple cars as well. if a household can afford 2 cars (just like the dr who was almost an MP), you can jolly well afford another 5k worth of taxes too
the car CM come too late, a lot of pple riding on the COE bubble now get stuck with high COE cars and no more profit. with a 200k loan on their heads and no way to get rid of the car (since COE will likely go down), be ready to buy some good cars at lelong price
best part garmen guarantee scrap value for the second owner
I think there is a way to get rid of the car.
Scrap it and get a refund of the unused high coe price. You can also get some money for the body of the car.
I did this many years ago when the coe was high and then dropped. I scraped my car of 3 years or slightly lesser, and then bought a brand new replacement.
wah.. champion.. i agree with you as it is happending in our company.. but i know why our CEO prefers to come here... less tax and he is somebody in sg... back in his own country, he is nobody...
but it is true, he comes here, he creates job for SG as he also want to expand his empire.. so win win...
So we're getting the rejects of other countries?
Make sense, who wants to go overseas if they're doing well in their own country?
:doh:
Wild Falcon
26-02-13, 10:31
Read my post lah. I'm saying not progressive enough because $320k already hit highest tax bracket. Nowadays all the SVPs and CEOs and COOs and bankers and lawyers and civil servants are hitting millions. And the progression did not move with the times. 10 years ago perhaps earning $400k is a BIG DEAL but its no longer so with asset inflation.
I know for sure a person making close to S$500-$600k is already paying close to $100k of taxes. It's just food for thought. Income levels have risen so much since 10 years ago, yet the tax brackets remains unchanged.
The question is, why must it stop at $320k? Why not go up further to say above a million, tax a slightly higher amount? And please don't say all CEOs will run away because effective tax rates goes up by 1-2% point from 20% to 22%. It's still very low and will only hurt the top 1% who makes millions. And to these guys, a few k means nothing. But it helps in income distribution and give some welfare to the elderlies in Singapore who have to depend on their own savings.
Anyway, tax is a sensitive issue. I still think the middle class and upper middle bears a disproportionate burden on taxes compared to the upper 1% echelons.
I thought Singapore's Tax is progressive?? it's max tax rate @ 20% stop at $320K doesn't mean this is not progressive right? note: this is percentage, you earn $400K, you paid $42350+ $80K*0.2= $58350.(btw not $80K tax) ppl who earn $1Mil need to pay $42350 + $620K*0.2=$166350.. Not fair?? :doh:
Read my post lah. I'm saying not progressive enough because $320k already hit highest tax bracket. Nowadays all the SVPs and CEOs and COOs and bankers and lawyers and civil servants are hitting millions. And the progression did not move with the times. 10 years ago perhaps earning $400k is a BIG DEAL but its no longer so with asset inflation.
I know for sure a person making close to S$500-$600k is already paying close to $100k of taxes. It's just food for thought. Income levels have risen so much since 10 years ago, yet the tax brackets remains unchanged.
The question is, why must it stop at $320k? Why not go up further to say above a million, tax a slightly higher amount? And please don't say all CEOs will run away because effective tax rates goes up by 1-2% point from 20% to 22%. It's still very low and will only hurt the top 1% who makes millions. And to these guys, a few k means nothing. But it helps in income distribution and give some welfare to the elderlies in Singapore who have to depend on their own savings.
Anyway, tax is a sensitive issue. I still think the middle class and upper middle bears a disproportionate burden on taxes compared to the upper 1% echelons.
I agree with you as our effective income tax is still pretty low.
They should not stop at 20%. There should be 2 more levels. For those above $640,000 at 21% or 22% and maybe those assessable income at above $1,280,000 at 23% or 24%.
This is only for discussion purposes.
you know, it's always like this...
those earning 50k will say those earning 100k are taxed too little
those earning 100k will say those earning 200k are taxed too little
those earning 200k will say those earning 400k are taxed too little
those earning 500k will say those earning 1mil are taxed too little
what's new ? :cool:
Singapore's 20% "headline tax rate" do attract people setting up business here. This is a business friendly tax environment. We need this. We dun need a wealth tax, or Obama's "millionaire tax".
btw how do you get to a "fact" that 500k income pays 100k tax ? I know for a fact it's about 70plus.
Superstar1
26-02-13, 11:17
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
so what u think about what you just posted? EQUITABLE?? to tax someone more just because he earn more? 30% just because someone earns $1m?
Best post I've read for a long long time
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
so what u think about what you just posted? EQUITABLE?? to tax someone more just because he earn more? 30% just because someone earns $1m?
:not-worthy: ..
I cannot be more agree with you. What is equality? Equality is a candle that the powerful take from the strong and giving to the weak.
Best post I've read for a long long time
this has been posted before and is nothing more than a Republican half-lie. The purported story began by stating this "That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer." which any clear thinking person will see is falsehood and a straw man.
why stamp duty ranges not raised?
is there anybody who benefit from the 1% rate nowadays?
1% should be first 300k, (i supposed price of a new HDB)
2% should be next 300k.
Wild Falcon
26-02-13, 11:38
It depends on your deductions bro. Some people got children and wife and parents to feed lah got many deductions. Some only have 1 deduction which is only earned income deduction and even parents cannot deduct becos parents got dividend and rental income. Singles kena the most taxes.
Not everyone like to pay taxes but sometimes I think if one has reached a certain comfort level, its ok to contribute more to society. Of course, not everyone will think the same and keep everything to self. Money has diminishing returns.
you know, it's always like this...
those earning 50k will say those earning 100k are taxed too little
those earning 100k will say those earning 200k are taxed too little
those earning 200k will say those earning 400k are taxed too little
those earning 500k will say those earning 1mil are taxed too little
what's new ? :cool:
Singapore's 20% "headline tax rate" do attract people setting up business here. This is a business friendly tax environment. We need this. We dun need a wealth tax, or Obama's "millionaire tax".
btw how do you get to a "fact" that 500k income pays 100k tax ? I know for a fact it's about 70plus.
proud owner
26-02-13, 11:59
Read my post lah. I'm saying not progressive enough because $320k already hit highest tax bracket. Nowadays all the SVPs and CEOs and COOs and bankers and lawyers and civil servants are hitting millions. And the progression did not move with the times. 10 years ago perhaps earning $400k is a BIG DEAL but its no longer so with asset inflation.
I know for sure a person making close to S$500-$600k is already paying close to $100k of taxes. It's just food for thought. Income levels have risen so much since 10 years ago, yet the tax brackets remains unchanged.
The question is, why must it stop at $320k? Why not go up further to say above a million, tax a slightly higher amount? And please don't say all CEOs will run away because effective tax rates goes up by 1-2% point from 20% to 22%. It's still very low and will only hurt the top 1% who makes millions. And to these guys, a few k means nothing. But it helps in income distribution and give some welfare to the elderlies in Singapore who have to depend on their own savings.
Anyway, tax is a sensitive issue. I still think the middle class and upper middle bears a disproportionate burden on taxes compared to the upper 1% echelons.
bro is this a rough calculation ?
i dont care very much really ... when it comes to tax ... the more you make the more you pay i feel its fair
but i am curious ... i am a trader ... i have paid tax of over 20k A MONTH ..
thats more tha 240k for the year ... how did u come up with 100k ? for those making 500k-600k ?
proud owner
26-02-13, 12:01
Of all places this is from a member in a local car forum:
"I got to say - I give it to the incumbent for Budget 2013. They've effectively said heck to votes, I will do the right thing, and if the electorate and business leaders and lobby groups cannot see the wisdom behind our policies, then tough for Singapore. I applaud the Budget.
The policy changes are very drastic but IMO very necessary and about time. Certainly not popularity pandering. It is about shaping behaviors, and setting things right. I think the younger middle class will see the wisdom for our children's sake. IMO this Budget has given very clear direction on the country's fundamentals, much more so than the silly White Paper. Fundamentals of building a strong and robust Singapore core, focus on childcare to help raise TFR, ensure reasonable social equity, financial prudence, high productivity and good jobs, and sustainable quality living for all Singaporeans.
Over the past few weeks, business associations and lobby groups had been speaking out vigorously against foreign worker restrictions and how our jobs and businesses will go bust soon if the government doesn't ease up on levies and quotas. I had been worried that our government had lost its "balls" in standing up against lobby groups for what is right for this country. I applaud the Budget. This government has got balls. This Budget means business for all businesses. Shape up or ship out, if you want to shape up, I'll help you along - that's the message to sectors with low productivity and high inertia. This is serious economic restructuring. Very serious. Some businesses will go bust or pull out of Singapore, and the incumbent is saying "sorry, but you don't fit in our programme, please find alternatives to do your business or earn a living". We must find better business models for companies to provide quality jobs with high productivity. Foreign workers are not the solution. They can augment, but they must not replace us. Stop blaming Singaporeans for not doing "dirty" jobs.
High end cars and properties will be taxed severely. People who actually can't afford cars at crazy high COEs, yet stupidly take on huge cheap loans will be severely restricted and penalized when COE prices drop. People who can't actually afford to live in private property will be taxed more severely. About bloody time. Sorry, but this country's social fabric is more important than individual profits and luxury living. This is a country for goodness sake, not an MNC. You only want dividends and hang out with an elite group with their bungalows, yachts and lambos, please move to London or New York City. Cars and condos and landed properties are a luxury, considering our very limited land. Public housing and public transport problems must be fixed and must be the staple form of day to day living for Singapore. It must be. I oso got to suck it up to higher prices and taxes for higher end cars and property if I want them. If I can't afford a 3L turbo S4 or 335, or a 4,000 square feet landed, then too bad for me. But this is good for the country and good for my kids' future.
We need to relook and redefine what life in Singapore should mean and what matters for our kids. Stop the insane pursuit of elite lifestyles, big cars and big houses. You want it, then pay huge taxes cuz these are not what living in Singapore for the Singaporean core is about. Reasonable social equity is critical. If all we think about is how to get rich and how to ensure our kids get the best grades and qualifications so they can get rich, then let's just forget about being a nation. I'm not interested in bringing new life to such a pathetic country. Just become a Dubai. And one fateful day, the rich-poor divide will shred the country to bits.
The white paper should have come after Budget. But then again, perhaps the huge reactions against the white paper helped shape the Budget announcements today. Whatever the case may be, I applaud the Budget. There will be many who can't sleep well tonight. Some will seriously now worry about basic rice bowl issues, instead of airy fairy ideas of which property launch or car launch to visit this weekend. Many recently bought insanely high COE cars and overpriced private properties against common sense of financial prudence and sustainable lifestyles, against the possibility of serious enforced economic restructuring and potential business failure and job losses, against the possibility that this government can change the rules of the game, for the country's sake, not individual profits. I wish them a very good night. "
Well said.:D
the writer is wrong ...
this country is run like an MNC ... thats what LKY said when trying to justify their 1 mio salary
hello buttercarp..i also jump onto the bandwagon.. now got 2 equity loans... been reading as the fund coming end of the month... property investment is bye bye for me now...
be careful abt investing your equity loans.. becoz those are "hard earned" from ppty and if you lose this, you need to "repay" for your paid up ppty.
bro chestnut, i was thinking of you when i wrote small peanuts or big chestnuts and here you are :D really long life :D
less people buy ==> more people rent.
but less workers ===> less people rent.
however more qualified people come ===> mass market rental still good.
however property tax hikes ===> rental cooling measure ===> yield gets hammered.
correct or not?
waiting for bro chestnut to mark ... :)
1. Not necessary. You must distinguish between buying for own stay and buying for investment
2. True
3. Not necessary as there are many developments to TOP in the next few years, if the influx cannot catch up with the supply, competition for tenants will increase and rents may be compressed
4. True
be careful abt investing your equity loans.. becoz those are "hard earned" from ppty and if you lose this, you need to "repay" for your paid up ppty.
thank you for the reminder...:cheers4: i think for a long while but the greed takes over... will not do something too risky so i can still be able to sleep properly
Govt wish for us to DIVERSIFY our investments and income. They don't want a nation hooked on property and thinking that the sky is the limit for property. They want us to invest in other asset classes. We cannot NOT invest as cash kept in the bank will depreciate in value over time.
Too many Singaporeans with good degrees and abilities in various fields had been turning to property and becoming agents or passive landlords. Now they should consider going back into their "old" jobs. Some may have done so already (hellooo......carbuncle where are you?)
Yepp, I'm doing so, freelancing Analyst for ICT industry, also going to be roving volunteer for govt stat board if passed today's f2f interview. Besides that, I've signed up for allied educator scheme for MOE, contract based or part time teaching assignments in related fields I've knowledge of including Computing, Music, and maybe even English (love correcting people's English remember?) I'm actively seeking value contribution back to society other than the !@#$% tax I'm paying my dues for.
is there any better alternative investment vehicles for the general public?
Got. Commercial use vehicles (such as vans and trucks). :D
Got. Commercial use vehicles (such as vans and trucks). :D
ahem..........pray tell may you, how are these investment worthy??
ahem..........pray tell may you, how are these investment worthy??
Erm..... dunno... maybe vintage?? LOL
Just pun on 'vehicles'.
If I'm self-employed, can I give myself a 200% 'wage increase', and have the govt match 40% of it?
Erm..... dunno... maybe vintage?? LOL
Just pun on 'vehicles'.
i get the drift........vintage, and hopefully road-worthy
If I'm self-employed, can I give myself a 200% 'wage increase', and have the govt match 40% of it?
don't think so. even for employees, the monthly income must be below $4k to qualify
don't think so. even for employees, the monthly income must be below $4k to qualify
Oh I missed this bit.
Wild Falcon
26-02-13, 15:05
Looks like the best part of the "budget" is the car loan part :)
Looks like the best part of the "budget" is the car loan part :)
greener singapore meh:D
So Daytona is totally against a progressive tax system? No one is legislating the wealthy out of prosperity lah. A bit more tax, just like our progressive tax system that tax higher income more, doesn't hurt. It's just our system is a little outdated, and with people earning millions nowadays, the "progression" has to move with the times. Someone who earns $4k 30 years ago can buy a landed property. But someone who earns $4k nowadays struggle to buy a flat. So the tax progression has to move accordingly. As I've said earlier, someone who earns $320k is in the same tax bracket as someone who earns $2 million (like Ministers and lawyers and some bankers and CEOs like Saw etc). Perhaps those who are in the $2 milion chip in more? Trust me, money also got diminishing returns. The reason I am saying this is, this wealth tax on property is a joke lah. It does nothing in redistributing wealth. Just wayang only.
Anyway, its just a thought. I don't think this will ever happen. The Ministers themselves earn millions, and they would prefer to be in same tax bracket as those making $320k.
Actually as it is....its already progressive since the larger the absolute amount, the higher the total tax payable. If by `progressive' you mean increasing the rate of taxation, such that there is a meaningful/ significant `subsidising' of the less well off, seriously, I'm not sure if it will yield the desired results....
Of all places this is from a member in a local car forum:
"I got to say - I give it to the incumbent for Budget 2013. They've effectively said heck to votes, I will do the right thing, and if the electorate and business leaders and lobby groups cannot see the wisdom behind our policies, then tough for Singapore. I applaud the Budget.
The policy changes are very drastic but IMO very necessary and about time. Certainly not popularity pandering. It is about shaping behaviors, and setting things right. I think the younger middle class will see the wisdom for our children's sake. IMO this Budget has given very clear direction on the country's fundamentals, much more so than the silly White Paper. Fundamentals of building a strong and robust Singapore core, focus on childcare to help raise TFR, ensure reasonable social equity, financial prudence, high productivity and good jobs, and sustainable quality living for all Singaporeans.
Over the past few weeks, business associations and lobby groups had been speaking out vigorously against foreign worker restrictions and how our jobs and businesses will go bust soon if the government doesn't ease up on levies and quotas. I had been worried that our government had lost its "balls" in standing up against lobby groups for what is right for this country. I applaud the Budget. This government has got balls. This Budget means business for all businesses. Shape up or ship out, if you want to shape up, I'll help you along - that's the message to sectors with low productivity and high inertia. This is serious economic restructuring. Very serious. Some businesses will go bust or pull out of Singapore, and the incumbent is saying "sorry, but you don't fit in our programme, please find alternatives to do your business or earn a living". We must find better business models for companies to provide quality jobs with high productivity. Foreign workers are not the solution. They can augment, but they must not replace us. Stop blaming Singaporeans for not doing "dirty" jobs.
High end cars and properties will be taxed severely. People who actually can't afford cars at crazy high COEs, yet stupidly take on huge cheap loans will be severely restricted and penalized when COE prices drop. People who can't actually afford to live in private property will be taxed more severely. About bloody time. Sorry, but this country's social fabric is more important than individual profits and luxury living. This is a country for goodness sake, not an MNC. You only want dividends and hang out with an elite group with their bungalows, yachts and lambos, please move to London or New York City. Cars and condos and landed properties are a luxury, considering our very limited land. Public housing and public transport problems must be fixed and must be the staple form of day to day living for Singapore. It must be. I oso got to suck it up to higher prices and taxes for higher end cars and property if I want them. If I can't afford a 3L turbo S4 or 335, or a 4,000 square feet landed, then too bad for me. But this is good for the country and good for my kids' future.
We need to relook and redefine what life in Singapore should mean and what matters for our kids. Stop the insane pursuit of elite lifestyles, big cars and big houses. You want it, then pay huge taxes cuz these are not what living in Singapore for the Singaporean core is about. Reasonable social equity is critical. If all we think about is how to get rich and how to ensure our kids get the best grades and qualifications so they can get rich, then let's just forget about being a nation. I'm not interested in bringing new life to such a pathetic country. Just become a Dubai. And one fateful day, the rich-poor divide will shred the country to bits.
The white paper should have come after Budget. But then again, perhaps the huge reactions against the white paper helped shape the Budget announcements today. Whatever the case may be, I applaud the Budget. There will be many who can't sleep well tonight. Some will seriously now worry about basic rice bowl issues, instead of airy fairy ideas of which property launch or car launch to visit this weekend. Many recently bought insanely high COE cars and overpriced private properties against common sense of financial prudence and sustainable lifestyles, against the possibility of serious enforced economic restructuring and potential business failure and job losses, against the possibility that this government can change the rules of the game, for the country's sake, not individual profits. I wish them a very good night. "
Well said.:D
haha...that's from VAG....many guys there are doctors, lawyers, judges, bankers and business gurus....and many are savy ppty investors too :D dun pray pray hor....no offense to MCF.
haha...that's from VAG....many guys there are doctors, lawyers, judges, bankers and business gurus....and many are savy ppty investors too :D dun pray pray hor....no offense to MCF.
I see it differently. I believe the government is concerned about the balance sheet of banks and bad debt if the economy turns or interest rates start hiking.
The budget is another big cooling measure.
I see it differently. I believe the government is concerned about the balance sheet of banks and bad debt if the economy turns or interest rates start hiking.
The budget is another big cooling measure.
Sorry, I wasn't commenting on the post content but the source of it. Read it too at VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group Singapore Forum). But generally, I agree that is the intention to shield our financial sector.
NorthernStar
26-02-13, 17:57
Read my post lah. I'm saying not progressive enough because $320k already hit highest tax bracket. Nowadays all the SVPs and CEOs and COOs and bankers and lawyers and civil servants are hitting millions. And the progression did not move with the times. 10 years ago perhaps earning $400k is a BIG DEAL but its no longer so with asset inflation.
I know for sure a person making close to S$500-$600k is already paying close to $100k of taxes. It's just food for thought. Income levels have risen so much since 10 years ago, yet the tax brackets remains unchanged.
The question is, why must it stop at $320k? Why not go up further to say above a million, tax a slightly higher amount? And please don't say all CEOs will run away because effective tax rates goes up by 1-2% point from 20% to 22%. It's still very low and will only hurt the top 1% who makes millions. And to these guys, a few k means nothing. But it helps in income distribution and give some welfare to the elderlies in Singapore who have to depend on their own savings.
Anyway, tax is a sensitive issue. I still think the middle class and upper middle bears a disproportionate burden on taxes compared to the upper 1% echelons.
Gov did adjust the tax brackets.. but they adjusted the lower brackets..
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=1190
I thought gov to maintain max tax to 20% is a good news to high incomers? Anyway, i find it is fair to tax the top 10% incomers with 20% for extra income start from $320K. Gov has taxed the rich from their properties, and luxury goods that they consumed.
This country has little well-fares for the rich. if Gov still tax them heavily, who want to stay here?:2cents:
The masses are asking for a bungalow each, so govt going to give to them? :banghead:
Govt just doing what the masses asked for and giving them what they want.
they need to eat bread just to service the annual $24k for landed..
LOL!! :D:D
sometimes, it is a blessing to stay in HDB :o
they need to eat bread just to service the annual $24k for landed..
LOL!! :D:D
sometimes, it is a blessing to stay in HDB :o
they can sell and buy many condos
Brudder, income is income.... Will be taxed. One way of overcoming is to get wife involved in the biz/family members. Then will spread... Woman are taxed lower because of the tax reliefs available. Hahahaha...
So if u have investment prop, let the wife take bigger share. Hahahaha
Hi Guru Chestnut (and all Gurus), regarding his last statement,
1. is it just a simple declaration of say 80:20 (wife:self) on the IR8A form for other source of income?
2. Must there be legal evidence during signing of S&P to support the 80:20 rule.
3. Have been declaring 50:50 with spouse (unemployed) and bearing the higher bracket tax due to rental income. :simmering: Still possible to back track to claim back from the taxman? :rolleyes:
Advice appreciated.
they need to eat bread just to service the annual $24k for landed..
LOL!! :D:D
sometimes, it is a blessing to stay in HDB :o
eat bread ok dont eat grass...:D:D:D
The ratio needs to be done upon purchase at lawyer office.
http://www.ramdwong.com.sg/news/jan01/ownership.htm
U have to do tenant in common. IRAS will know all this.
Check w your lawyer how much to do and see if worth it.
Hi Guru Chestnut (and all Gurus), regarding his last statement,
1. is it just a simple declaration of say 80:20 (wife:self) on the IR8A form for other source of income?
2. Must there be legal evidence during signing of S&P to support the 80:20 rule.
3. Have been declaring 50:50 with spouse (unemployed) and bearing the higher bracket tax due to rental income. :simmering: Still possible to back track to claim back from the taxman? :rolleyes:
Advice appreciated.
eat bread ok dont eat grass...:D:D:D
Ya otherwise get arrested for vandalism.
Buyers of unknown developers or small developers, caveat emptor.
Esp larger size or complex design projects by such developers.
Days of fast project turnaround before stated TOP date are probably over.
-------------
Construction: Smaller companies may fold, project delays likely
Feb 27, 2013
By Cheryl Ong
A key industry body for the construction sector said increasing foreign worker levies could result in smaller construction firms merging or folding.
Contractors would not have factored the increases into their pricing when they took on jobs and will have no way to recover their costs now, Singapore Contractors Association president Ho Nyok Yong told The Straits Times yesterday. "The weaker ones (sub-contractors) with restricted resources might need to consolidate to face the storm that is coming," he said.
Contractors too warned that project delays might become commonplace if smaller players pull out while construction is still under way.
Mr Ng Yek Meng, managing director of Progressive Builders, said: "If our sub-contractor abandons the project, it will of course disrupt our operations, and we have to find another one. It might lead to delays."
Foreign worker levies are being raised by an average of between $50 and $160, but construction will be one of the hardest-hit sectors, with levies for a basic unskilled worker rising from $400 this year to $600 in July 2015.
Levies for unskilled foreign workers whom contractors hire above their Man-Year Entitlement (MYE) quota will rise from $650 to $1,050 in the same period.
The MYE quota dictates the total number of foreign workers allocated to a main contractor for a specific building project.
Some contractors feel the measures will do little to help boost productivity as the issue lies with how buildings are designed.
"In the long term, to increase the adoption of labour-saving systems, we also need to look from the design point of view," said Hexacon Construction general manager Dominic Choy.
"There can be a more holistic approach to this. Because of the way it's being designed, you can't use pre-cast systems. In that sense, when you keep on increasing the levy, it doesn't really solve the problem."
Mr Lew Kok Leong, partner at sub-contractor Bohonly General Contractor, said the measures could mean laying off half the 20 foreign workers the firm employs if things get too tough.
"It's going to be very difficult to survive," he said. "Costs of workers' quarters are going up, everything is getting very expensive now. So maybe we'll do less, and maybe we'll change and do renovation work, not projects."
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 09:08
I read somewhere that Chip Eng Seng has precast factory in JB
This country has little well-fares for the rich. if Gov still tax them heavily, who want to stay here?:2cents:
I think the government went overboard with this whole workfare scheme this year. Looks like this is going to be permanent policy. Up to 15.5 month of pay for 12 months of work. For a couple each having a $1900 per month job, the state will pay them $13,300 annually. If they are paid $1901 a month they get nothing. Incentive or disincentive to work harder in the long run?:doh:
Well in life, a lot of things has a fine line. It is whether which side you are on at what time.
I think the government went overboard with this whole workfare scheme this year. Looks like this is going to be permanent policy. Up to 15.5 month of pay for 12 months of work. For a couple each having a $1900 per month job, the state will pay them $13,300 annually. If they are paid $1901 a month they get nothing. Incentive or disincentive to work harder in the long run?:doh:
Well in life, a lot of things has a fine line. It is whether which side you are on at what time.
I view it as purely a policy issue. It's going to create, in the long run, a permanent under class that is unwilling to work harder or get promoted for fear of exceeding the workfare ceiling. :2cents:
well we are moving towards Oz social security now. Who still wants to migrate ?
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 09:43
actually Singapore extreme meritocratic system cannot sustain ...
what the PAP (or rather MM Lee) trying to do is to improve the genetic pool of Singaporeans over time .. it is very obvious:
1. Those will lesser gene first get filtered at PSLE
2. Then filter at A Level (we even have our own Cambridge A Level)
3. Stop at Two has ensured that poor genes stop @ two lol
4. We take in only immigrants with good genes (we judge by success in career as well as academic)
5. When applying for university place ... SCs, SPRs and foreigners compete with each other .. garmen even sponsors some of them
Sooner or later this will result in xenophobia as this system allow any foreigner with better genes to parachute in :scared-5:
It is too extreme ... it is too brutal, WP will rise as they perfectly understand this :beats-me-man:
I think govt is trying to sabo us. See if we dare to complain somemore
I think govt is trying to sabo us. See if we dare to complain somemore
Govt encourage people to protest is it? (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16951)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16951
:D:D:D
Govt encourage people to protest is it? (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16951)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16951
:D:D:D
Thanks. Just learnt that there's a coffeeshop talks thread
well we are moving towards Oz social security now. Who still wants to migrate ?
we are FAR away from emulating any western nation type of social security, and i don't believe the govt needs or wants to move towards it
haha...that's from VAG....many guys there are doctors, lawyers, judges, bankers and business gurus....and many are savy ppty investors too :D dun pray pray hor....no offense to MCF.
MCF is a modly crew. i can't really say for VAG because VW not exactly an expensive car
The ratio needs to be done upon purchase at lawyer office.
http://www.ramdwong.com.sg/news/jan01/ownership.htm
U have to do tenant in common. IRAS will know all this.
Check w your lawyer how much to do and see if worth it.
more importantly, what is the marginal amount saved on income tax, as compared to the hassle and cost of doing this? anyway, not a problem for me. i dun hv a row of houses to charge rent on.
actually Singapore extreme meritocratic system cannot sustain ...
what the PAP (or rather MM Lee) trying to do is to improve the genetic pool of Singaporeans over time .. it is very obvious:
1. Those will lesser gene first get filtered at PSLE
2. Then filter at A Level (we even have our own Cambridge A Level)
3. Stop at Two has ensured that poor genes stop @ two lol
4. We take in only immigrants with good genes (we judge by success in career as well as academic)
5. When applying for university place ... SCs, SPRs and foreigners compete with each other .. garmen even sponsors some of them
Sooner or later this will result in xenophobia as this system allow any foreigner with better genes to parachute in :scared-5:
It is too extreme ... it is too brutal, WP will rise as they perfectly understand this :beats-me-man:
Psle is 3rd round of screening.
The first one is at P3 GEP selection. 2nd one is at Pr4 for foundation
Psle is 3rd round of screening.
The first one is at P3 GEP selection. 2nd one is at Pr4 for foundation
Maybe that's why lowly educated foreign spouse can't get PR. They don't want to introduce bad genes.
But will good genes always produce smart children?
Mee Siam Mai Hum??
:D
MCF is a modly crew. i can't really say for VAG because VW not exactly an expensive car
OT a bit hor....
VAG covers Audi as well....and some of the Audi drivers has 2/3 cars. Some drives Porsche, Masarati, Lambo....but must agree lately VAG has a lot more VW drivers, naturally since VW has sold a lot more cars in recent years.
End of OT
Hi Guru Chestnut (and all Gurus), regarding his last statement,
1. is it just a simple declaration of say 80:20 (wife:self) on the IR8A form for other source of income?
2. Must there be legal evidence during signing of S&P to support the 80:20 rule.
3. Have been declaring 50:50 with spouse (unemployed) and bearing the higher bracket tax due to rental income. :simmering: Still possible to back track to claim back from the taxman? :rolleyes:
Advice appreciated.
I suggest u don't change unless u want to effect a legal transfer.
At time, it is better to pay more than inviting unnecessary issues.
There is no way you can back track
Maybe that's why lowly educated foreign spouse can't get PR. They don't want to introduce bad genes.
But will good genes always produce smart children?
Mee Siam Mai Hum??
:D
siao liao, bro got any last words before going to lim kopi? :D :D
Maybe that's why lowly educated foreign spouse can't get PR. They don't want to introduce bad genes.
But will good genes always produce smart children?
Mee Siam Mai Hum??
:D
siao liao, bro got any last words before going to lim kopi? :D :D
Wild Falcon
27-02-13, 20:49
Will this new rule propel VW to be the #1 bestseller in SG, replacing BMW and Merc? After all, VW is well known for their low OMV and so the new ARF structure will affect them the least which means they can continue to price low and sell to the masses.
Hi Guru Chestnut (and all Gurus), regarding his last statement,
1. is it just a simple declaration of say 80:20 (wife:self) on the IR8A form for other source of income?
2. Must there be legal evidence during signing of S&P to support the 80:20 rule.
3. Have been declaring 50:50 with spouse (unemployed) and bearing the higher bracket tax due to rental income. :simmering: Still possible to back track to claim back from the taxman? :rolleyes:
Advice appreciated.
IRAS has record of your percentage of co-ownership from moment of purchase of property. Your lawyers will file a Notice of Transfer of PRoperty - that's how you get your property tax bills. The ownership percentage is stated in the Notice.
So you need to indicate your percentage of ownership from day one. If you go to a good lawyer, he/she will ask the appropriate questions from day one when you exercise the contract. However, if you pay peanuts...
Hi Guru Chestnut (and all Gurus), regarding his last statement,
1. is it just a simple declaration of say 80:20 (wife:self) on the IR8A form for other source of income?
2. Must there be legal evidence during signing of S&P to support the 80:20 rule.
3. Have been declaring 50:50 with spouse (unemployed) and bearing the higher bracket tax due to rental income. :simmering: Still possible to back track to claim back from the taxman? :rolleyes:
Advice appreciated.
IRAS has record of your percentage of co-ownership from moment of purchase of property. Your lawyers will file a Notice of Transfer of PRoperty - that's how you get your property tax bills. The ownership percentage is stated in the Notice.
So you need to indicate your percentage of ownership from day one. If you go to a good lawyer, he/she will ask the appropriate questions from day one when you exercise the option and explain the implications of manner of ownership. However, if you pay peanuts...
Will this new rule propel VW to be the #1 bestseller in SG, replacing BMW and Merc? After all, VW is well known for their low OMV and so the new ARF structure will affect them the least which means they can continue to price low and sell to the masses.
i always feel there is some transfer pricing mechanisms in the VW cars. no way the car is worth so low. their margin gao gao. seriously, come to change car, then buyers will realise how deep their depre is.
i always feel there is some transfer pricing mechanisms in the VW cars. no way the car is worth so low. their margin gao gao. seriously, come to change car, then buyers will realise how deep their depre is.
If te resale market isn't outstanding, then they will see their depre gao gao as well.
If te resale market isn't outstanding, then they will see their depre gao gao as well.
resale mkt will follow new car mkt. if COE plunge, resale will also plunge. that's when "high paper value" is the most impt for pple who are forced to sell their cars. and VW certainly dun have high paper value.
had a friend who bot a 2009/2010 camry recently. told him not to buy. now gg to cry. if COE plunge, his camry will be worth only 30-40k on paper due to its low COE
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