View Full Version : Time to cash out?
Been doing some thinking after the recent announcement of cooling measure on cars purchase, extra taxes on luxury cars, revision of property tax on highend property, as well as recent comment from Tharman on housing prices. It seems like this government is very determine to cool the property prices on the highend segment, as such I am thinking if this is a good time to cash out since price is unlikely to gain much while there is a higher risk of interest rate rising, CM8 and softening of rent.
If you have nothing better to work on with your 'cash out', suggest to maintain status quo.
Talk is one thing, action is another thing.
DC gone up UP
quote on construction workers : cut
levy on construction workers : UP UP UP
GLS price : UP. UP. UP
HDB price : UP
Again, those who feels they are overleveraged due to cheap money please do the neccesary actions to deleverage.
Those who feel otherwise can remain status quo but i myself will not be buying anymore properties locally.
Talk is one thing, action is another thing.
DC gone up UP
quote on construction workers : cut
levy on construction workers : UP UP UP
GLS price : UP. UP. UP
HDB price : UP
What you are highlighting are the effects of low interest rate and thats exactly the reason why I am fearing that government might surprise the market by pulling out the mother of all CM to raise interest rate.
What they have done to the car industry is extremely drastic and it only goes to show their determination of our government to slow inflation while they tries to restructure the economy.
What you are highlighting are the effects of low interest rate and thats exactly the reason why I am fearing that government might surprise the market by pulling out the mother of all CM to raise interest rate.
What they have done to the car industry is extremely drastic and it only goes to show their determination of our government to slow inflation while they tries to restructure the economy.
PM Lee had a very long explanation of S$ interest rate earlier. The implication is much higher.
For car : it is all CMs combined into one....
Even if you want to cash out, you may not be able to find a buyer to meet your expected price. I know of somebody who put up a CCR property (near Newton) for sale, got an offer 2% below asking price, did not accept the offer immediately and the buyer changed mind over the weekend.
I believe MAS do not have the capacity to raise interest rate right? what we are seeing now is the rise of bank spread or those board rate.
A much higher than expected interest rate spike may also trigger an economic slowdown or recession in Singapore. It not only affects cars and properties.
What you are highlighting are the effects of low interest rate and thats exactly the reason why I am fearing that government might surprise the market by pulling out the mother of all CM to raise interest rate.
What they have done to the car industry is extremely drastic and it only goes to show their determination of our government to slow inflation while they tries to restructure the economy.
i guess u gotta understand the idea behind low interest rates...
also, how many % of car buyers are affected by this mere LTV CM? How many buyers in the first place stretches max loans when purchasing their cars? People driving up car prices are not the rich ones. There were just too many marginal buyers who are buying cars when they cant really afford to which drove up the prices.
Like most countries, Sg reserve is mostly in US$.....
A much higher than expected interest rate spike may also trigger an economic slowdown or recession in Singapore. It not only affects cars and properties.
not necessary. A spike in interest rate might result in correction of property prices hence bring down the cost of living as well as cost of business (assuming commercial and industry property also affected).
I believe the property has now become a very big cost burden not just for residents, but also for many businesses in Singapore, hence the "gain" from this might actually outweigh the cost of borrowing for businesses.
Even if you want to cash out, you may not be able to find a buyer to meet your expected price. I know of somebody who put up a CCR property (near Newton) for sale, got an offer 2% below asking price, did not accept the offer immediately and the buyer changed mind over the weekend.
Go and check out the listings in propertyguru. There are more and more units listed for sale and the number is increasing daily. I know because I've been monitoring since CM7. People are thinking of cashing out and selling based on the current trend.
Go and check out the listings in propertyguru. There are more and more units listed for sale and the number is increasing daily. I know because I've been monitoring since CM7. People are thinking of cashing out and selling based on the current trend.
Very hard to say lah. this could be seasonal effect of CNY . Did you compared it with the past years?
not necessary. A spike in interest rate might result in correction of property prices hence bring down the cost of living as well as cost of business (assuming commercial and industry property also affected).
I believe the property has now become a very big cost burden not just for residents, but also for many businesses in Singapore, hence the "gain" from this might actually outweigh the cost of borrowing for businesses.
A spike will cause a market shock. Many companies are surviving on cheap credits. A drop in biz cost in terms of rental will only come later which is often too late.
However if it is a gradual increase of interest rates, then it is a complete different story altogether.
I believe MAS do not have the capacity to raise interest rate right? what we are seeing now is the rise of bank spread or those board rate.
MAS have the right to do that... Just don't follow US Interest Rate... And take back the right to adjust interest rate.... Just one simple statement.... But of course I believe this will not affect those personal loan...
A spike will cause a market shock. Many companies are surviving on cheap credits. A drop in biz cost in terms of rental will only come later which is often too late.
However if it is a gradual increase of interest rates, then it is a complete different story altogether.
I am not too sure about that. AFAIK, many companies, especially SME are complaining about COE prices, high cost of industrial property and rent etc.
Impossible for a sudden spike, but once it is obvious that government is changing course, I believe many investors will panic and cut lost is they have to.
I feel only certain groups are cashing out. If you have the holding power, why cash out when u can't buy back at the same prices now? Especially with the new ltvs and absds
i guess u gotta understand the idea behind low interest rates...
also, how many % of car buyers are affected by this mere LTV CM? How many buyers in the first place stretches max loans when purchasing their cars? People driving up car prices are not the rich ones. There were just too many marginal buyers who are buying cars when they cant really afford to which drove up the prices.
so what happens now to those who spent 100 over K to buy a bread/butter car...:o ...debted for next 10 years...:doh:
MAS have the right to do that... Just don't follow US Interest Rate... And take back the right to adjust interest rate.... Just one simple statement.... But of course I believe this will not affect those personal loan...
I am not sure how easy will it be from transition point of view. Not an expert in this field. Any financial analyst to give any comments?
I feel only certain groups are cashing out. If you have the holding power, why cash out when u can't buy back at the same prices now? Especially with the new ltvs and absds
Investor should always balance their investment portfolio once in awhile and you cannot rely on holding forever theory to maximize your returns, unless your property still offers reasonable rental yield.
The price correction like the one we see in 2008 only comes very rarely and one should always be equipped and loaded for bottom fishing.
so what happens now to those who spent 100 over K to buy a bread/butter car...:o ...debted for next 10 years...:doh:
They should have realised that when they buy the car and already calculated the yearly depreciation and expenses throughout the next 10years. So when COE drop, they cannot afford to change car thats all as they will need to top up the difference. They can still continue to drive till the loan breakeven.
Investor should always balance their investment portfolio once in awhile and you cannot rely on holding forever theory to maximize your returns, unless your property still offers reasonable rental yield.
The price correction like the one we see in 2008 only comes very rarely and one should always be equipped and loaded for bottom fishing.
Yep agreed, bullets must always be ready at the right time.
People are shouting for interest rates to rise only because they would wanna see prices fall. So they could pick up some cheap deals? After than they would wish prices to go up again so they could cash out on their "cheap deals"
Investor should always balance their investment portfolio once in awhile and you cannot rely on holding forever theory to maximize your returns, unless your property still offers reasonable rental yield.
The price correction like the one we see in 2008 only comes very rarely and one should always be equipped and loaded for bottom fishing.
I believe rebalancing of property portfolio is not necessary for those who only owns a few. However, i constantly rebalance my equities portfolio.
I am not sure how easy will it be from transition point of view. Not an expert in this field. Any financial analyst to give any comments?
It is really easy for them.. It is whether they want to do it a not.. as our GDP depend on property a lot.... Anyway we are going to stop using US interest rate soon.. the government is already looking at this.. It was on Bloomberg news... Maybe coming out soon. Just not sure what will the new interest setting rules... With so much loan with our banks, if interest increase, the banks will huat big big... All the loan slave will have to work harder and save more to feed the banks...
But I believe the government do not need to use the interest rate yet as most of our buyers are quite low on cash. So a further tightening in LTV should do the job.. For example, second property LTV goes to 80%.. third property LTV goes to 100%... With 40% in cash.. I believe it will be job done...
And you should know with higher LTV, it just benefit the rich more as price will drop and only they can afford...
People are shouting for interest rates to rise only because they would wanna see prices fall. So they could pick up some cheap deals? After than they would wish prices to go up again so they could cash out on their "cheap deals"
After buying, they will want interest rate to fall back.
Investor should always balance their investment portfolio once in awhile and you cannot rely on holding forever theory to maximize your returns, unless your property still offers reasonable rental yield.
The price correction like the one we see in 2008 only comes very rarely and one should always be equipped and loaded for bottom fishing.
You have already gotten the answer; just looking for someone to contradict you.
It is really easy for them.. It is whether they want to do it a not.. as our GDP depend on property a lot.... Anyway we are going to stop using US interest rate soon.. the government is already looking at this.. It was on Bloomberg news... Maybe coming out soon. Just not sure what will the new interest setting rules... With so much loan with our banks, if interest increase, the banks will huat big big... All the loan slave will have to work harder and save more to feed the banks...
But I believe the government do not need to use the interest rate yet as most of our buyers are quite low on cash. So a further tightening in LTV should do the job.. For example, second property LTV goes to 80%.. third property LTV goes to 100%... With 40% in cash.. I believe it will be job done...
Is it on the news? I only read about the US sibor thingy. It does not mean to stop basing on US sibor rate from what i understand.
You have already gotten the answer; just looking for someone to contradict you.
He already decided to cash out.
No right or wrong as it also depends greatly on individual circumstances and age as well.
He already decided to cash out.
No right or wrong as it also depends greatly on individual circumstances and age as well.
I saw a lot of wisdom in him.
Is it on the news? I only read about the US sibor thingy. It does not mean to stop basing on US sibor rate from what i understand.
I do not know also.. but it is on bloomberg last few weeks due to the US SIBOR thing... But don't worry.. The interest rate will not spike as it is not good for business also. With the latest budget, it is already harsh on SME. If at this time interest increase, it is as good as ask them go close shop...
I do not know also.. but it is on bloomberg last few weeks due to the US SIBOR thing... But don't worry.. The interest rate will not spike as it is not good for business also. With the latest budget, it is already harsh on SME. If at this time interest increase, it is as good as ask them go close shop...
I still believe the current banking system will stay put. And i also believe US fed will not increase the interest rate significantly within a short time frame too. A gradual increase is inevitable and it is actually very good for the global economies. Everybody knows cheap credits is not sustainable.
So for those who hope for a drop in property prices due to interest rate may be dissapointed. A gradual increase of interest rate alone will not cause a drop in property price.
I still believe the current banking system will stay put. And i also believe US fed will not increase the interest rate significantly within a short time frame too. A gradual increase is inevitable and it is actually very good for the global economies. Everybody knows cheap credits is not sustainable.
So for those who hope for a drop in property prices due to interest rate may be dissapointed. A gradual increase of interest rate alone will not cause a drop in property price.
A sudden increase in interest rate will send SGD above and beyond USD parity. It will be a instant death to national competitiveness. Interest rate will only increase gradually as the local population increase. We need the domestic demand to compensate for the lost of international demand, should we want to gradually increase interest rate.
Here's another problem about cashing out right now: potential buyer pool has shrunk and many vultures around.
Here's another problem about cashing out right now: potential buyer pool has shrunk and many vultures around.
One can never catch the bottom or the peak. it is always better to sell it before the storm even if it takes longer or slight discount.
potential Buyer pool also adopting wait and see ... like a stalemate :(
One can never catch the bottom or the peak. it is always better to sell it before the storm even if it takes longer or slight discount.
What if it turns out to be a mild storm ? And it will become more difficult for you to get back in again or there is no nett benefit after all the effort? Tharman would be happy if prices remain stable while income levels rise as he was referring to affordability. If prices decline only 10%, would it be worth your effort, especially if there are no alternative lucrative investments after cashing out?
Been doing some thinking after the recent announcement of cooling measure on cars purchase, extra taxes on luxury cars, revision of property tax on highend property, as well as recent comment from Tharman on housing prices. It seems like this government is very determine to cool the property prices on the highend segment, as such I am thinking if this is a good time to cash out since price is unlikely to gain much while there is a higher risk of interest rate rising, CM8 and softening of rent.
I suggest if you wanna cash out, why don't you list your properties and asking price here including your contact and if its attractive enough, you will get a call from bros/ sis here, no doubt about that. i think this is your best answer ;)
sometimes we think we are very smart and can beat the system...i sold my pc in 2011 and rented for 1 year thinking i could go in cheaper...end of day it was a stupid move if i had stayed vested i would be a lot better off now...anyway...i have learnt my lesson and always believe property is meant to be BOUGHt and NOT sold...:cool:
Those who shouting interest rate to raise just small amount but very noisy :hell-hath-no-fury:
They miss the boat so they want to buy cheap cheap ,
However for 70%~80% of people , current interest rate stay low best :D
People are shouting for interest rates to rise only because they would wanna see prices fall. So they could pick up some cheap deals? After than they would wish prices to go up again so they could cash out on their "cheap deals"
Good sharing :cheers1:
sometimes we think we are very smart and can beat the system...i sold my pc in 2011 and rented for 1 year thinking i could go in cheaper...end of day it was a stupid move if i had stayed vested i would be a lot better off now...anyway...i have learnt my lesson and always believe property is meant to be BOUGHt and NOT sold...:cool:
Office Boy many days never post anything liao ...
Thought this is good thread to share something, since this is the question I get from my office people every other day.
Whether to cash or not ... there is only a few points to consider.
One is of course your view of the market - if you think market is going to go down at least 15%, then divest, u can buy back later at lower price (bearing in mind the stamp duty - dont EVER EVER assume that the ABSD will be remove for u to buy when price drops)
Two > the number of units you are holding. If you holding one for own stay, one for investment to collect rental income. Selling will mean that you are effectively out of the market liao. Is that what you want ?
Three > alternative investments, like I mentioned previously, u sell because u believe that the money u generate will can earn u better income. Otherwise, leaving money in the bank is a losing proposition.
Ok! Done my national service liao ... haha!
Good Luck!
DKSG
Also if you sell, then wait a few years to buy back. If you are lucky enough that the price drop....but your loan tenure is ticking away....who knows the MAS may tighten loan restrictions further in future. MSR may reduce even further from 30%
Office Boy many days never post anything liao ...
Thought this is good thread to share something, since this is the question I get from my office people every other day.
Whether to cash or not ... there is only a few points to consider.
One is of course your view of the market - if you think market is going to go down at least 15%, then divest, u can buy back later at lower price (bearing in mind the stamp duty - dont EVER EVER assume that the ABSD will be remove for u to buy when price drops)
Two > the number of units you are holding. If you holding one for own stay, one for investment to collect rental income. Selling will mean that you are effectively out of the market liao. Is that what you want ?
Three > alternative investments, like I mentioned previously, u sell because u believe that the money u generate will can earn u better income. Otherwise, leaving money in the bank is a losing proposition.
Ok! Done my national service liao ... haha!
Good Luck!
DKSG
before cashing out of course must make sure decoupling other properties first as there is no way I am going to pay ABSD for another property.
I do sense that there is really a window opportunity for bargain hunting in some segment of the market soon.
TravieJackie
04-03-13, 21:22
Which segment of the market in your opinion then?
Pikachu1245
04-03-13, 21:27
not necessary. A spike in interest rate might result in correction of property prices hence bring down the cost of living as well as cost of business (assuming commercial and industry property also affected).
I believe the property has now become a very big cost burden not just for residents, but also for many businesses in Singapore, hence the "gain" from this might actually outweigh the cost of borrowing for businesses.
A spike in interest rate is likely to increase the cost of doing business. Many business owners borrow money to carry out their businesses. If their cost of doing business go up (arising from higher interest from banks/finance companies), these will be pass on to consumers(aka you and me). This is likely to cost inflation i.e. further rise of consumer goods & services.............:2cents:
A spike of interest rate is likely to increase the cost of doing business. Many business owners borrow money to carry out their businesses. If their cost of doing business go up (arising from higher interest from banks/finance companies), these will be pass on to consumers(aka you and me). This is likely to cost inflation i.e. further rise of consumer goods & services.............:2cents:
You might have got it mixed up. Raising interest rate is actually a common tool used by central banks around the world to tame inflation not the other way round.
Which segment of the market in your opinion then?
>$3m segment
>$3m segment
U say this after Hilltops sold a unit for $2,6xx psf?
DKSG
He is missing the 2nd leg of the boat, which will see him until 2019, missing out net 3% rental return + 6% capital appreciation per year. In the meantime, suck thumb and collect 0.1% from bank deposit interest and suffer real inflation rate of 8% per year!!!:scared-2:
I saw a lot of wisdom in him.
Pikachu1245
04-03-13, 22:28
You might have got it mixed up. Raising interest rate is actually a common tool used by central banks around the world to tame inflation not the other way round.
Thanks for the pointer.
As there is a possibility that higher interest reduce consumer spending and increase savings, e.g. when interest rates exceed inflation. Could falling consumer spending lead to a spiral where we crash into a recession, or at best, stagflation period ?
You might have got it mixed up. Raising interest rate is actually a common tool used by central banks around the world to tame inflation not the other way round.
Economy is not an exact science, its partly unpredictable human behaviour.
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=18780
U say this after Hilltops sold a unit for $2,6xx psf?
DKSG
been looking around lately, it seems that anything above $3m sellers and developers are all very willing to negotiate as there are not many buyers in the market at the moment.
Economy is not an exact science, its partly unpredictable human behaviour.
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=18780
No one is interested to predict the economy, I am just highlighting a real problem Singapore is facing right now. Too much attention have been paid to making easy money in property and thats why many Singaporeans are too lazy to work and wasting too much time talking nonsense at condosingapore. :D
The guy property investors need to watch closely now is not Kobi-Wan, it is the shining head Tharman. When his head become too shining, its time to take cover liao
been looking around lately, it seems that anything above $3m sellers and developers are all very willing to negotiate as there are not many buyers in the market at the moment.
The bigger developers are holding on tightbtight to their crown jewel... FH CCR properties... They know once they sell, no more available land to have CCR properties in their portfolio Liao....
The bigger developers are holding on tightbtight to their crown jewel... FH CCR properties... They know once they sell, no more available land to have CCR properties in their portfolio Liao....
FH CCR property must also depends on location lah, but I dont think developers will be keen to sell them in today's market.
The crown for this year will go to Marina One or South Beach as I think these 2 projects will attract most investor attention.
They should have realised that when they buy the car and already calculated the yearly depreciation and expenses throughout the next 10years. So when COE drop, they cannot afford to change car thats all as they will need to top up the difference. They can still continue to drive till the loan breakeven.
my principle of buy car is breakeven from day 1. if negative equity, then get a cheaper/older car.
Not forgetting the lesser known "Duo".
FH CCR property must also depends on location lah, but I dont think developers will be keen to sell them in today's market.
The crown for this year will go to Marina One or South Beach as I think these 2 projects will attract most investor attention.
starrynight
05-03-13, 07:58
Agree, and a lot of "alternative investments" right now have risk. Imagine the dudes who bought London properties - they may have made some capital gains, but have lost 4% "overnight" dude to the sharp drop in GBP the week before last when Moodys yanked the AAA rating.
Office Boy many days never post anything liao ...
Thought this is good thread to share something, since this is the question I get from my office people every other day.
Whether to cash or not ... there is only a few points to consider.
One is of course your view of the market - if you think market is going to go down at least 15%, then divest, u can buy back later at lower price (bearing in mind the stamp duty - dont EVER EVER assume that the ABSD will be remove for u to buy when price drops)
Two > the number of units you are holding. If you holding one for own stay, one for investment to collect rental income. Selling will mean that you are effectively out of the market liao. Is that what you want ?
Three > alternative investments, like I mentioned previously, u sell because u believe that the money u generate will can earn u better income. Otherwise, leaving money in the bank is a losing proposition.
Ok! Done my national service liao ... haha!
Good Luck!
DKSG
I did not realise that the GBP has dropped so much to about 1.88. Do you think if will weaken further looking at the bleak situation in UK?
Agree, and a lot of "alternative investments" right now have risk. Imagine the dudes who bought London properties - they may have made some capital gains, but have lost 4% "overnight" dude to the sharp drop in GBP the week before last when Moodys yanked the AAA rating.
starrynight
05-03-13, 08:10
I know next to nothing about currencies, so I'm not in a position to advise.
I only know that now's a great time to go to UK and Japan for holidays :D
I did not realise that the GBP has dropped so much to about 1.88. Do you think if will weaken further looking at the bleak situation in UK?
Interest rates have a direct impact on business loans. The larger the business, the greater the impact.
Another impact is on domestic currency.
It is very obvious that global economies are still not performing up to expectation and hence the low rates. Mortgage rate is just a small supplement of the whole interest rates picture.
If interest rate is raised at the current economic level, I suspect many listed company which are showing marginal profits now will start to report losses next quarter.
:)
Many sour grapes are complaining the low rates because they in the first place had no guts to take up the leverage opportunity when first presented to them. Now, 5 years later, they are regretting.
I suspect the World Bank will keep this low rates for another 10 to 15 years. They are very determined to jump start the Eurozone and low rates is the only way to help their businesses now considering the size of the global export markets at the present moment.
In fact, it is very obvious FED has no intention of raising rates in the forseeable future, that is why they keep all silence since October 2012 when Ben said QE infinity for USA.
Low interest rates is a global affair. But CM1 to CM7 is our domestic affair.
Keep that in mind. Dun say I never say here first hor.
Banks and individual investors are hoarding tons and tons of cash now. On the first sign of recovery, they will dump them into the stock markets of the World.
I think you thought they are hoarding like a few millions, right? Wrong. The amount is close to 500 billion, US$.
I think you thought they are hoarding like a few millions, right? Wrong. The amount is close to 500 billion, US$.
I will not be like BJ21T, I will give you the source of this information:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/01/29/business-corporate-tax.html
:)
http://live.wsj.com/video/are-banks-hoarding-cash/9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8.html#!9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8
:) no guarantee the link will work, but worth a try .
buttercarp
05-03-13, 13:03
http://live.wsj.com/video/are-banks-hoarding-cash/9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8.html#!9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8
:) no guarantee the link will work, but worth a try .
Thanks Leo.
Internet explorer cannot but google chrome can.
http://live.wsj.com/video/are-banks-hoarding-cash/9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8.html#!9A6944A4-EE89-451F-9A4B-DEA0D5F8A6B8
:) no guarantee the link will work, but worth a try .
pardon me, is this an old new?
In conclusion, cashing out now is a bad idea unless you have multiple properties.
For Office Boy, I always maintain a Balance Sheet such that price up 15% can sell something, price drop 15% can buy something.
Like that steady steady invest, then old age will have no problem (except your kids trying to get rid of you to inherit your portfolio!).
Good Luck All !
DKSG
In conclusion, cashing out now is a bad idea unless you have multiple properties.
For Office Boy, I always maintain a Balance Sheet such that price up 15% can sell something, price drop 15% can buy something.
Like that steady steady invest, then old age will have no problem (except your kids trying to get rid of you to inherit your portfolio!).
Good Luck All !
DKSG
of course cashing out we are talking about your investment property. cashing out your own residence is like gambling.
Did anyone take my advice?
Did anyone take my advice?
For what I see is a quantum game.
Big quantum,niche market. Now cooling, very cool.
MM, small quantum though dip. But by a little bit nia
Got Money put where, in the Bank to depreciate ????????????
Oil price go down, USD go up or down. Why ?????
Got Money put where, in the Bank to depreciate ????????????
Oil price go down, USD go up or down. Why ?????
Hehe! I called for prudence 2-3yrs back and nobody listened.
Don't say I never tell ya. Oil is record low now and it's denominated in USD. If you're still holding multiple SG properties, quickly run road and long oil oilready!
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/international/swiss-central-bank/1537226.html#.VJKbLD9sDvs.facebook
Coming Soon......... to your nearest Bank.
ZURICH: Switzerland's central bank on Thursday (Dec 18) announced it was introducing negative interest rates, in a bid to stop the Swiss franc - a safe haven currency - from gaining further value.
The Swiss National Bank is imposing a rate of -0.25 percent on certain bank deposits, with the aim of pushing the target range of a benchmark interest rate into negative territory. The rate on so-called sight deposits, funds which can be accessed immediately, will come into force on January 22 and only apply to balances above a certain threshold.
The SNB said the aim was to take the three-month Libor rate, which Switzerland uses to determine interest rates on mortgages and savings accounts, into negative territory. The target range for Libor - officially the franc's three-month London interbank offered rate - is now between -0.75 percent and 0.25 percent, down from between 0.0 and 0.25 percent.
Analysts have been expecting the bank to push rates into negative territory, which is designed to make it less attractive to hold Swiss franc investments. The SNB reiterated its "utmost determination" to stop the Swiss currency gaining value and to keep to an exchange-rate floor of 1.20 francs to the euro, in a bid to protect the country's vital export industry.
"Over the past few days, a number of factors have prompted increased demand for safe investments," it said. "The introduction of negative interest rates makes it less attractive to hold Swiss franc investments, and thereby supports the minimum exchange rate."
"The SNB is prepared to purchase foreign currency in unlimited quantities and to take further measures, if required," it added.
Hehe! I called for prudence 2-3yrs back and nobody listened.
Don't say I never tell ya. Oil is record low now and it's denominated in USD. If you're still holding multiple SG properties, quickly run road and long oil oilready!
You might be interested to put your money in their Bank, giving 17%.
http://rt.com/business/214635-russia-raises-key-rate/
Beware oil!
Most likely will crash below US$50 in next 1-2 year! :axekiller:
Just bought a larger car. So petrol will be cheaper.
Beware oil!
Most likely will crash below US$50 in next 1-2 year! :axekiller:
Beware oil!
Most likely will crash below US$50 in next 1-2 year! :axekiller:
No one can predict price of oil 1 to 2 years ahead so please stop amusing yourself.
If its going below $50 it will happen within the next few months.
Ha ha ha!
I can't say I am 100% accurate because no human will be, but I can say I have uncanny ability in this area, more right than wrong which has served me very well!!!!!!!!!!! :butterfly:
No one can predict price of oil 1 to 2 years ahead so please stop amusing yourself.
If its going below $50 it will happen within the next few months.
Blackstone Ready to Wait 5 Years for Singapore Property Recovery
By Pooja Thakur
December 18, 2014 7:59 PM EST 1 Comments
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Photographer: Munshi Ahmed/Bloomberg
Private yachts are berthed outside luxury condominium apartments at Sentosa Cove in Singapore. Condominium prices in Sentosa, an upscale residential enclave with sweeping views across the Singapore Strait, are close to their lowest level since the end of 2006, according to Maybank Kim Eng Securities Pte.
Blackstone Group LP, which is taking part in the refinancing of luxury Singapore properties, is prepared to wait as long as five years for a turnaround in residential prices to see higher returns on the transaction.
Blackstone and Malaysia’s CIMB Bank Bhd. agreed this week to take part in a financing for a luxury hotel, retail and residential development, owned by City Developments Ltd. (CIT), Singapore’s second-largest developer, on Sentosa island.
In exchange for S$469 million ($357 million) in funding, the New York-based private-equity company and CIMB will receive a fixed 5 percent coupon for five years and other cash flows from the Sentosa project. They also have rights to any proceeds from the sale of the luxury residential units on Sentosa.
Blackstone, the world’s biggest private-equity property investor, has accelerated investments in Asia this year, including buying GE Japan Corp.’s residential business and entering the retiree housing market in Australia. The firm is taking advantage of a slowdown in the Singapore housing market following government curbs since 2009.
“We have a positive long term view of Singapore,” said Singapore-based Kishore Moorjani, a managing director who oversees Blackstone’s Tactical Opportunities Group. Blackstone wouldn’t be satisfied with just a 5 percent return on its Sentosa investment and is eyeing the long-term potential of the residential properties, he said. “We will do very well on this in the long term. We will be better off in five years than we are today,” he said.
Both Blackstone and CIMB said they are willing to wait several years before selling to give prices time to recover.
Prices Drop
The Singapore government has been trying to rein in the property market since 2009 to prevent a bubble forming, with the toughest measures, including stricter lending criteria, introduced last year. Residential prices fell 0.7 percent in the three months ended September, the fourth quarter-on-quarter drop, bringing the slide in the past year to 4 percent.
The island-state is unlikely to ease the curbs until “a meaningful correction” takes place, Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said Oct. 28, suggesting prices have further to decline.
Condominium prices in Sentosa, an upscale residential enclave with sweeping views across the Singapore Strait, are close to their lowest level since the end of 2006, according to Maybank Kim Eng Securities Pte. Some house prices on the island have halved since 2012, figures from the Urban Redevelopment Authority show.
Blackstone Deals
Since last year, Blackstone’s property acquisitions in Asia have ranged from Chinese shopping malls to Australian office towers. Since making its first deal in the region in 2007, Blackstone has invested about $7 billion, including $3 billion of equity, according to the firm.
Last month, the U.S. firm agreed to invest A$150 million ($123 million) in National Lifestyle Villages Pty, which develops manufactured retirement communities in Australia, and also agreed to buy GE’s residential business in Japan for more than 190 billion yen ($1.6 billion).
Under the terms of the refinancing agreement, City Developments has to achieve a price of at least S$2,400 per square foot before it can sell the residential properties.
City Developments has sold only 25 of the 228 apartments in the Sentosa development and has leased about half of the rest.
The refinancing, announced Dec. 16, involves Blackstone, CIMB and City Developments investing a total S$750 million in a capital instrument called a profit-participation security. Separately, DBS Bank Ltd. and Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp. will provide S$750 million in loans.
Don’t Sell
City Developments will receive about S$1.2 billion from the transaction. That will allow the company to reduce debt and gives it a freer hand for overseas acquisitions, Chief Executive Officer Grant Kelley said.
The developer is looking for purchases in China and Australia, after spending $1 billion on overseas investments this year, he said. The company will also focus on Japan, the U.S. and the U.K.
Kelley said it will take time for Sentosa residential property prices to recover, though he expressed confidence that prices will rise well above the mimimum S$2,400 per square foot within five years.
“Now is not the time to be selling,” Kelley said. “The base case assumption of S$2,400, there is an ultra high probability, almost a certainty, of achieving that. We expect it to be significantly beyond that by the time 2018-2019 comes around.”
CIMB also said it expects to wait to realize a return on the residential properties included in the transaction.
“This gives us a fixed income and also an equity kicker at the end of the five years,” Carol Fong, country chief executive officer, investment banking, for Singapore at CIMB Securities (Singapore) Pte said.
To contact the reporter on this story: Pooja Thakur in Singapore at
[email protected]
"“Now is not the time to be selling,” Kelley said. “The base case assumption of S$2,400, there is an ultra high probability, almost a certainty, of achieving that. We expect it to be significantly beyond that by the time 2018-2019 comes around.”"
This prediction is more probable than Jgateway MM appreciating beyond 17xx psf
If Sentosa is S$2400 psf, JGateway in JURONG expect >$17xx psf?
"“Now is not the time to be selling,” Kelley said. “The base case assumption of S$2,400, there is an ultra high probability, almost a certainty, of achieving that. We expect it to be significantly beyond that by the time 2018-2019 comes around.”"
This prediction is more probable than Jgateway MM appreciating beyond 17xx psf
You might be interested to put your money in their Bank, giving 17%.
http://rt.com/business/214635-russia-raises-key-rate/
I earned quite a bit from the previous ruble crisis and this time is no different. Similarly, when oil went down to $50 I bought, and sold when it was $120. Shale is nothing new and the cycle repeats again. At least the downside is little and upside is huge. It's all about risk appetite and calculated risk. On the flip side, putting your money in SG properties now has little potential, huge downside and little upside. No brainer if you ask me.
I earned quite a bit from the previous ruble crisis and this time is no different. Similarly, when oil went down to $50 I bought, and sold when it was $120. Shale is nothing new and the cycle repeats again. At least the downside is little and upside is huge. It's all about risk appetite and calculated risk. On the flip side, putting your money in SG properties now has little potential, huge downside and little upside. No brainer if you ask me.
To some a crisis is an opportunity to others can only wait for Durian to drop.
Who give me money to invest, the Bank, who stop me from over commit MAS.
Property investment is so well calibrated, when they build lot of infrastructure and need money they let it go up.
When the price level is reach, they hold the horse, when the price go down, they let the horse run, so good....
If Sentosa is S$2400 psf, JGateway in JURONG expect >$17xx psf?
Developer can sell at any price, but resale market after project is completed is different matter.
If Sentosa is S$2400 psf, JGateway in JURONG expect >$17xx psf?
Stop talking cock lah.
Sentosa $2400psf what size?
J Gateway <500sqft.
Along Orchard Road LH99 $4000psf, wrong side of CCR, $1500psf. LOL!!
If Sentosa is S$2400 psf, JGateway in JURONG expect >$17xx psf?
Comparing Sentosa Cove to Jurong East is a bit off.... One is an "enclave for billionaires" and expatriates while the other is HDB heartland. There's no comparison at all.
Jurong East
http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/singaporeseen/sites/default/files/public/article/images/featured/2012/05/1121592.jpg
Sentosa Cove
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/sentosa03e.jpg
Comparing Sentosa is of course off lah. Sentosa how to compare with rental yield and capital appreciation of Jurong condo.
Close one eye choose any D22 condo it will be better than Sentosa. LOL.
Do you mean that Vivocity, Orchard MRT doesnt have heartland blue collar workers?
Or you are just talking cock in this forum?
I want to agree with you, but the HDB heartland property prices is almost close to the property prices of "billionaires enclaves". Are those HDB heartland populated by "billionaires" or rather "billionaires-wannabe"? :ghost:
Comparing Sentosa Cove to Jurong East is a bit off.... One is an "enclave for billionaires" and expatriates while the other is HDB heartland. There's no comparison at all.
Jurong East
http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/singaporeseen/sites/default/files/public/article/images/featured/2012/05/1121592.jpg
Sentosa Cove
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/sentosa03e.jpg
For sure Vivocity and Orchard is NOT beside those HEAVY INDUSTRY plants (like JURONG) generating toxic gases NON-STOP 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how to compare to your JURONG area?
Comparing Sentosa is of course off lah how to compare with rental yield and capital appreciation of Jurong condo.
Close one eye choose on D22 condo will be better than Sentosa. LOL.
Do you mean that Vivocity, Orchard MRT doesnt have heartland blue collar workers?
Or you are just talking cock in this forum?
For sure Vivocity and Orchard is NOT beside those HEAVY INDUSTRY plants (like JURONG) generating toxic gases NON-STOP 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how to compare to your JURONG area?
Sentosa is located right next to a big seaport, that has got huge container ship docking everyday 24/7/365days for the last 40 years at least.
http://img.timeinc.net/time/asia/magazine/2010/1115/gb_apec_1115.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/719/sxq8.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/719/sxq8.jpg
Nice diagram. You forget to add Zoo farts and dung in Mandai area. :D
I earned quite a bit from the previous ruble crisis and this time is no different. Similarly, when oil went down to $50 I bought, and sold when it was $120. Shale is nothing new and the cycle repeats again. At least the downside is little and upside is huge. It's all about risk appetite and calculated risk. On the flip side, putting your money in SG properties now has little potential, huge downside and little upside. No brainer if you ask me.
Right, SG properties have limited upside but huge downside at this point. Unless you are in urgent need to get yourself a home, or address for P1 registration etc., you should stay out first.
Sentosa is located right next to a big seaport, that has got huge container ship docking everyday 24/7/365days for the last 40 years at least.
http://img.timeinc.net/time/asia/magazine/2010/1115/gb_apec_1115.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/719/sxq8.jpg
I smell chocolate when I am in Jurong area ... Vivo's air seems more normal. In any case, I reckon the industrial activities east of Labrador park will be moved to Pasir Panjang - Tuas side in future.
I smell chocolate when I am in Jurong area ... Vivo's air seems more normal. In any case, I reckon the industrial activities east of Labrador park will be moved to Pasir Panjang - Tuas side in future.
http://wildsingaporenews.blogspot.sg/2010/12/whats-that-smell.html?m=1
Chocolate smell explanation.
And there are many other toxic gases which has no smell being produced there!...............
How? No smell nobody complain but doesn't mean they do not exist!
http://wildsingaporenews.blogspot.sg/2010/12/whats-that-smell.html?m=1
Chocolate smell explanation.
And there are many other toxic gases which has no smell being produced there!...............
How? No smell nobody complain but doesn't mean they do not exist!
That's why I propose we need real demographic data to be sure, for example, the incidence or frequency of lung cancer expressed as a percentage of population as a heat map in each location. With SG being a tiny red dot and all the heavy industries all around, we cannot be sure how the whole population is impacted by the odorless gases, some of which can indeed travel extreme distances. I do subscribe to your belief to an extent, but the other proponents are equally strong in their descriptions of other sources of air pollution.
Nonetheless, Jurong East and West is still quite unbeatable in terms of tenancy demand. Not vested.
BEWARE!!
Maritime: Using fuel with less sulphur
Long before man invented the car, bus or train, ships were the preferred mode of transport for adventurers seeking newer pastures.
But for years, the industry has harboured a dirty secret - that of hulking ships steaming through the ocean, coughing out plumes of black smoke.
In Singapore, the pollution contributed by the large oil refineries operating on Jurong Island, expanding vehicle population, and annual haze blown in from Indonesia has long been tracked by the authorities here.
But as one of the world’s major ports, with some 140,000 vessels calling here every year, air pollution caused by ships has so far fallen outside Singapore’s radar.
Ships carry 90 per cent of the goods traded by countries around the world, and with some estimates putting their contribution to global carbon emissions at 4 per cent - double the amount from the aviation sector - it has become a matter of concern for governments around the world and green groups.
That could well explain why the National Environment Agency has recently engaged a consultant to study the impact of emissions from ships that navigate Singapore waters.
Unlike airplanes or cars, ships largely operate on cheaper residual oil, which has a sulphur content thousands of times greater than the diesel fuel used by taxis here.
Sulphur and nitrogen oxide fumes are tied to smog and acid rain, and can have a significant impact on the health of communities, especially those living near the coastline, noted Associate Professor Anthony Chin from the Centre for Maritime Studies at the National University of Singapore.
For example, an American study done in 2007 estimated that the health cost to societies in European and South Asian countries by ship emissions was US$255 billion (S$331 billion) every year.
The same study also noted that 60,000 deaths a year in coastal communities in these regions were due to respiratory-related illnesses.
But tracking this pollution is problematic, given that vessels tend to spend most of their time out in international waters, where they have not been subjected to any regulations, said experts.
That is why ports, as ‘fixed facilities’, should take the lead by measuring the carbon emissions from ships docked there, said Prof Chin.
Some action has already been taken. The Maritime and Port Authority signed a global protocol which makes it compulsory for ships docking here to use higher grades of fuel - with less sulphur content - progressively.
The global pact aims to reduce this sulphur content to 0.5 per cent by 2020.
Now the challenge is to attract ship owners here, given that the move to higher grade fuels will add billions of dollars to their operating costs every year.
"Unlike airplanes or cars, ships largely operate on cheaper residual oil, which has a sulphur content thousands of times greater than the diesel fuel used by taxis here."
Wah .. do you mean west side will take the brunt in full force? Heeee ...
"Unlike airplanes or cars, ships largely operate on cheaper residual oil, which has a sulphur content thousands of times greater than the diesel fuel used by taxis here."
Wah .. do you mean west side will take the brunt in full force? Heeee ...
60,000 deaths a year in coastal communities in these regions were due to respiratory-related illnesses
60,000 deaths a year in coastal communities in these regions were due to respiratory-related illnesses
Ahh .. so .. eastern of catchment zone, away from Jurong and coast ... that will be Thomson & Seletar.
Allthepies
29-12-14, 17:39
Sob sob the mighty east coast also kena pollution...
Can try woodland too
Sob sob the mighty east coast also kena pollution...
Can try woodland too
A picture speaks a thousand words.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!/page542?p=439087#post439087
if maritime transport pollution is a problem, then live far from the seaside loh! The further you are, the less effect it will have on you.
And we know very well that refineries, chemical manufacturing plants, power generation plants, because of their static nature, and they operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, the pollution will be much much worst than maritime transport pollution. Hence, the solution is to live far away from these sources, if die die they have to live in Singapore right? We all have brain to think that the further you are from these sources, the less effect it will have on you!
People just have to use their own brains to think and take the necessary actions for their own good.
60,000 deaths a year in coastal communities in these regions were due to respiratory-related illnesses
Judging from the size of Singapore, the whole island might be regarded as coastal region in the studies.
Different lah. Those places, they have few tall buildings and is sparsely populated.
In Singapore, there are many tall buildings, which help to block the spreading of the pollution.
In Singapore, there is also a very heavy population of people, whose lungs are natural filters to these pollution.
Judging from the size of Singapore, the whole island might be regarded as coastal region in the studies.
Different lah. Those places, they have few tall buildings and is sparsely populated.
In Singapore, there are many tall buildings, which help to block the spreading of the pollution.
In Singapore, there is also a very heavy population of people, whose lungs are natural filters to these pollution.
The height of the chimneys are taller than our tallest buildings.
People being filters sounds plausible but not sure if really that effective if light weight particles fly long distances.
We need demographics of respiratory diseases to be sure.
The height of those chimneys look about 20 storeys high, so most new buildings in city are already taller than that.
Human lungs are the best filters for light weight super micro and nano particles!
The height of the chimneys are taller than our tallest buildings.
People being filters sounds plausible but not sure if really that effective if light weight particles fly long distances.
We need demographics of respiratory diseases to be sure.
Human nostril hair can only filter off 10micron size particular matter. Anything smaller will go into trachea and ended up in the lungs.
The height of those chimneys look about 20 storeys high, so most new buildings in city are already taller than that.
Human lungs are the best filters for light weight super micro and nano particles!
The height of those chimneys look about 20 storeys high, so most new buildings in city are already taller than that.
Human lungs are the best filters for light weight super micro and nano particles!
I read online that the chimneys were close to 300m in height. No way to be sure though.
Nonetheless if you look at the chimneys you will see the fumes floating up and joining the clouds. Definitely higher than what you can find in SG.
Where do they all go to?
Human nostril hair can only filter off 10micron size particular matter. Anything smaller will go into trachea and ended up in the lungs.
The result is the same. Lungs will be the ultimate filter.
I read online that the chimneys were close to 300m in height. No way to be sure though.
Nonetheless if you look at the chimneys you will see the fumes floating up and joining the clouds. Definitely higher than what you can find in SG.
Where do they all go to?
Plume is often characterized by Gaussian Distribution. Sometimes, it could potentially reach the ground level, but at diluted concentration. Othertimes, if the air is 'stratified', it could not find its way up but will be trapped under. The air would not have diluted enough if it occurred near the stack. The ideal scenario would be having the wind blowing north west / south west, away from SG.
May be not those in Singapore.
Ok I checked and confirmed that the one belonging to Shell at Palau Bukom is about 100m high, or about 30 storeys tall.
For comparison, The Sail is almost 60 storeys tall.
I read online that the chimneys were close to 300m in height. No way to be sure though.
Nonetheless if you look at the chimneys you will see the fumes floating up and joining the clouds. Definitely higher than what you can find in SG.
Where do they all go to?
http://www.airinfonow.org/html/ed_particulate.html
http://www.airinfonow.org/html/ed_particulate.html
Pasir Panjang side any issue? How has the experience been?
Who is that idiot who say that human lungs can act as air purifier? HHHHAAHA
No one can predict price of oil 1 to 2 years ahead so please stop amusing yourself.
If its going below $50 it will happen within the next few months.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/17002-Time-to-cash-out/page17?p=497746#post497746
damn ringo33!!
you are right. Oil price went below $50 last night.. Ringo33 1 - teddybear 0 :encouragement:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30687669
So, oil has crash below US$50 after all! Within my 1-2 years time frame!
Mark my words - OCR private condos will crash >20% latest by 2017 if govt do not do anything about property cooling measures! Hope I will be proven right again just like the oil forecast! :devilish:
No offense, I think ringo33 is more accurate in his prediction that if oil price do fall below $50 it will happen within the next few months, instead of having to wait for 1 to 2 years. Its like 2 hunters trying to kill an animal, one manage with one shot one kill, while the other hunter has to empty an entire magazine of bullets just to kill one animal.
I do expect government to tweak the cooling measures within the next 12 months actually, so the >20% correction you are predicting might actually not materialized. Even if it do happen, ie. crash >20%, it could be due to external shock rather than government not doing anything about cooling measures.
BUT Ringo said he can't predict oil 1 to 2 years ahead!
Prediction is useful only if you can predict far ahead!
I seriously doubt Ringo's ability if he can buy JGateway at >$1700 psf and still regard it as cheap when I am picking up Newton properties at about $1300+ psf 2+ years earlier (and at that time he could buy Lakeshore at $600+ psf which is just stones throw away from JGateway!).
You sound like VERY STRONG Ringo SUPPORTER! :highly_amused:
No offense, I think ringo33 is more accurate in his prediction that if oil price do fall below $50 it will happen within the next few months, instead of having to wait for 1 to 2 years. Its like 2 hunters trying to kill an animal, one manage with one shot one kill, while the other hunter has to empty an entire magazine of bullets just to kill one animal.
I do expect government to tweak the cooling measures within the next 12 months actually, so the >20% correction you are predicting might actually not materialized. Even if it do happen, ie. crash >20%, it could be due to external shock rather than government not doing anything about cooling measures.
No one can predict price of oil 1 to 2 years ahead so please stop amusing yourself.
If its going below $50 it will happen within the next few months.
No one can make any accurate prediction of oil price movement 2 years from now. What you are doing with your 2 years "prediction" is simply casing your net far and wide to increase your chance of getting it right. Its like I can tell you now that oil prices will rise in 1 to 2 years time and I am sure I have a very high chance of getting it right. Would I claim that I am good at predicting future? No, of course not because oil price can only go up and down and as long as it does up within the 700 over days, i will be right.
I am not doubting your ability, but if you want to tell us you are good and accurate with your prediction, then you should be showing us what you have predicted 2 to 3 years back.
Correct your wrong perception:
- There will always be someone who make accurate prediction at any time, but always NOT from the same person... (That is how "analysts" work...).
- There will always be someone who make more accurate prediction than others...
- There is a big difference between people who make empty and useless prediction (where they are not vested, like Ringo) and people who make prediction and put their money where their mouth is (like me)...
- When I said I am super bullish on properties in early 2009, Ringo is shouting for property prices to crash more and for Rivergate to fall to <$1000 psf! :doh:
No one can make any accurate prediction of oil price movement 2 years from now. What you are doing with your 2 years "prediction" is simply casing your net far and wide to increase your chance of getting it right. Its like I can tell you now that oil prices will rise in 1 to 2 years time and I am sure I have a very high chance of getting it right. Would I claim that I am good at predicting future? No, of course not because oil price can only go up and down and as long as it does up within the 700 over days, i will be right.
I am not doubting your ability, but if you want to tell us you are good and accurate with your prediction, then you should be showing us what you have predicted 2 to 3 years back.
Correct your wrong perception:
- There will always be someone who make accurate prediction at any time, but always NOT from the same person... (That is how "analysts" work...).
- There will always be someone who make more accurate prediction than others...
- There is a big difference between people who make empty and useless prediction (where they are not vested, like Ringo) and people who make prediction and put their money where their mouth is (like me)...
- When I said I am super bullish on properties in early 2009, Ringo is shouting for property prices to crash more and for Rivergate to fall to <$1000 psf! :doh:
As we all know there will always be someone who strike the top 3 prizes in every 4D draw, and that doesnt mean those who got the right numbers are good and accurate with the prediction.
As for what you said about ringo back in 2009, I find it hard to believe because Ringo33 only join this forum in 2012, how is it possible for him to be talking to you in 2009? Perhaps you might have confused ringo with someone else??
Plus I think its a good call from ringo to talk about cashing out back in March 2013.
You don't know because you joined this forum in 2012.
I know because I joined this forum in 2009.
Simple as that........................
As we all know there will always be someone who strike the top 3 prizes in every 4D draw, and that doesnt mean those who got the right numbers are good and accurate with the prediction.
As for what you said about ringo back in 2009, I find it hard to believe because Ringo33 only join this forum in 2012, how is it possible for him to be talking to you in 2009? Perhaps you might have confused ringo with someone else??
Plus I think its a good call from ringo to talk about cashing out back in March 2013.
You don't know because you joined this forum in 2012.
I know because I joined this forum in 2009.
Simple as that........................
I am aware that you join this forum on March 2009 and Ringo33 join this forum on March 2012.
So does the following statement even make any sense? Can you show us the exact discussion you have with Ringo33 in 2009?
When I said I am super bullish on properties in early 2009, Ringo is shouting for property prices to crash more and for Rivergate to fall to <$1000 psf!
Seriously I am not interested to waste my time engaging in this endless illogical argument with you. And if you still want to insist that you are very good at
predicting future, then you should show us what you have predicted 2 or 3 years ago.
Oh, and a surprise!
You joined this forum on March 2012 too! What a "BIG COINCIDENCE" that Ringo has YOU as a BIG SUPPORTER joining the forum at about the same time! :hornybastard:
I am aware that you join this forum on March 2009 and Ringo33 join this forum on March 2012.
So does the following statement even make any sense? Can you show us the exact discussion you have with Ringo33 in 2009?
Seriously I am not interested to waste my time engaging in this endless illogical argument with you. And if you still want to insist that you are very good at
predicting future, then you should show us what you have predicted 2 or 3 years ago.
Oh, and a surprise!
You joined this forum on March 2012 too! What a "BIG COINCIDENCE" that Ringo has YOU as a BIG SUPPORTER joining the forum at about the same time! :hornybastard:
You should stop putting too much pressure on yourself to sound like a property guru in this forum.
And I would strongly recommend you to see a psychiatrist for your condition because your behavior is abnormal.
How you could claim to engage in a discussion with Ringo in 2009 when Ringo only existed in 2012?
Seriously go get some help. Perhaps this has got to do with aging.
Ringo was a clone of somebody in this forum in 2009............ :mask:
That is why he/she always finger-point others as though other people are like him, going around creating so many clones to support himself!
When he failed in his prediction, he will reborn as another clone...........
You should stop putting too much pressure on yourself to sound like a property guru in this forum.
And I would strongly recommend you to see a psychiatrist for your condition because your behavior is abnormal.
How you could claim to engage in a discussion with Ringo in 2009 when Ringo only existed in 2012?
Seriously go get some help. Perhaps this has got to do with aging.
Plus I think its a good call from ringo to talk about cashing out back in March 2013.
Really? Well lots of people knew that is was topping out & stayed on the sidelines during that period. Cooling measure after cooling measure poured one on top of the other by the MND was sending a very clear signal how far they where willing to go to ensure the market would cool down.
It was a rather obvious call , actually given all the stamp duty a better call would only to be to cash out if you weren't affected by the SSD or definitely dont enter the market for a new property at the time.
Recently before he was banned - if he really has been banned - he picked this old thread back up, maybe to show everyone how smart he was. The obvious question then would have to be -
Why was he so dumb then to ignore his own advice and buy at the top of the market in mid 2013, 6 months after this smart call?
Maybe the poor guy has some memory issue and couldn't remember what he had himself said.
Anyhow - interesting times ahead as SOR & SIBOR have started to rise.
Really? Well lots of people knew that is was topping out & stayed on the sidelines during that period. Cooling measure after cooling measure poured one on top of the other by the MND was sending a very clear signal how far they where willing to go to ensure the market would cool down.
It was a rather obvious call , actually given all the stamp duty a better call would only to be to cash out if you weren't affected by the SSD or definitely dont enter the market for a new property at the time.
Recently before he was banned - if he really has been banned - he picked this old thread back up, maybe to show everyone how smart he was. The obvious question then would have to be -
Why was he so dumb then to ignore his own advice and buy at the top of the market in mid 2013, 6 months after this smart call?
Maybe the poor guy has some memory issue and couldn't remember what he had himself said.
Anyhow - interesting times ahead as SOR & SIBOR have started to rise.
What exactly did ringo buy?
Ringo was a clone of somebody in this forum in 2009............ :mask:
That is why he/she always finger-point others as though other people are like him, going around creating so many clones to support himself!
When he failed in his prediction, he will reborn as another clone...........
just curious, what was his clone name or account in 2009?
What exactly did ringo buy?
I think you need to find his infamous BEWARE!!!! thread which got closed due to it descending into a thread of no value to property discussion.
There are 2. the much older one which was closed by the moderator for lack of value, and the new one which he could not resist opening.
Ringo was a clone of somebody in this forum in 2009............ :mask:
That is why he/she always finger-point others as though other people are like him, going around creating so many clones to support himself!
When he failed in his prediction, he will reborn as another clone...........
Teddy,
What was his prediction back in 2009 - didn't know he was a clone of a previous user. If he really was then truly world class hypocrite considering how he used to accuse every single person who disagreed with him of being a clone.
I think you need to find his infamous BEWARE!!!! thread which got closed due to it descending into a thread of no value to property discussion.
There are 2. the much older one which was closed by the moderator for lack of value, and the new one which he could not resist opening.
The original thread is too long for me to look through. I just wish to know what did Ringo buy in 2013?
I think you need to find his infamous BEWARE!!!! thread which got closed due to it descending into a thread of no value to property discussion.
There are 2. the much older one which was closed by the moderator for lack of value, and the new one which he could not resist opening.
I have to disagree with you on that. I actually find the thread very informative as it contains many information and development plan on JLD which you cant find in other thread. The only reason why it is closed is because of too much childish squabbling which I am sure you and teddybear were also involved too?
Just my 2cent.
I have to disagree with you on that. I actually find the thread very informative as it contains many information and development plan on JLD which you cant find in other thread. The only reason why it is closed is because of too much childish squabbling which I am sure you and teddybear were also involved too?
Just my 2cent.
Very informative - please take it reporter2 to have it unlocked then. He is of a different mind. I personally didn't mind it being open. Although I agree with the mod that it wasn't informative it was funny to see him flip flopping around an just about every argument over the space of 18 months, he really was very bad at keeping track of his positions.
I think you will find that the thread starter was the initiator of every single bit of rubbish that came his way.
If you bothered to look at the thread that was closed you will notice I didn't bother engaging with that idiot for most of the last 6 months plus as there was absolutely no point dragging myself down to his level where he could beat me with his experience.
But I guess bothering to find out the background before jumping in is hard work.
The original thread is too long for me to look through. I just wish to know what did Ringo buy in 2013?
Link is here - will take approx 5 minutes of your valuable time to find out.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!
Start at the beginning and scan through - wont take you long.
or use the search function http://forums.condosingapore.com/search.php
Link is here - will take approx 5 minutes of your valuable time to find out.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!
Start at the beginning and scan through - wont take you long.
or use the search function http://forums.condosingapore.com/search.php
I just wish to know which project did ringo buy.
And if I may ask how do you know what he buy just by reading the link?
In all likelihood, the TS in that "Beware... West" thread might not even have invested in Jurong Gateway Condo. He could have invested in a Jurong-related asset and blowing as hard as possible so that all nearby projects get inflated. A strategy known as raise the east and attack the west. He was definitely right about strong rental demand in the area though.
I just wish to know which project did ringo buy.
And if I may ask how do you know what he buy just by reading the link?
If you really want to know - you will be motivated enough to look for yourself.
Do you think you deserve to be spoonfed? Google search is your friend - much better than the forum search engine. I found the answer in less than 10 seconds with google.
If you really want to know - you will be motivated enough to look for yourself.
Do you think you deserve to be spoonfed? Google search is your friend - much better than the forum search engine. I found the answer in less than 10 seconds with google.
Since you know ringo so well, I thought I just ask you what he bought. I am sure it will take you less time to tell me the name of the development instead of saying i can find it using google.
I go know google search is powerful, but to use that to find out what ringo bought is almost impossible unless you know exactly what do look for.
So if it only take you 10 seconds then why cant you just attached the link to the page?
In all likelihood, the TS in that "Beware... West" thread might not even have invested in Jurong Gateway Condo. He could have invested in a Jurong-related asset and blowing as hard as possible so that all nearby projects get inflated. A strategy known as raise the east and attack the west. He was definitely right about strong rental demand in the area though.
Could be. Having lived in Jurong from 2007-2010 I don't think it's half as bad as some on here have been posting - but then I think most have been posting just to push his buttons.
I just had a hard time understanding why people would pay double plus psf over existing condo in that area.
Sucker born every minute I guess.
Agree with rental
I've had no problem renting the unit out since I moved out. But I expect and get Jurong rental psf - not CCR rental psf. No big deal - I paid Jurong psf, not CCR psf.
Plus in future I can easily afford to beat this sort of competitor for tenants in a downturn.
Very informative - please take it reporter2 to have it unlocked then. He is of a different mind. I personally didn't mind it being open. Although I agree with the mod that it wasn't informative it was funny to see him flip flopping around an just about every argument over the space of 18 months, he really was very bad at keeping track of his positions.
I think you will find that the thread starter was the initiator of every single bit of rubbish that came his way.
If you bothered to look at the thread that was closed you will notice I didn't bother engaging with that idiot for most of the last 6 months plus as there was absolutely no point dragging myself down to his level where he could beat me with his experience.
But I guess bothering to find out the background before jumping in is hard work.
Actually I find you very combative in your post. Seriously I also disagree with you on your property 101 theory and I hope you are not going to come after me just because I disagree with you.
Anyway, this is a social forum, its for socializing, not for fighting. If you disagree with ringo, then perhaps you could start a separate thread to share your views.
peace!!
Since you know ringo so well, I thought I just ask you what he bought. I am sure it will take you less time to tell me the name of the development instead of saying i can find it using google.
I go know google search is powerful, but to use that to find out what ringo bought is almost impossible unless you know exactly what do look for.
So if it only take you 10 seconds then why cant you just attached the link to the page?
...... because I don't owe it to you?
type in "what did ringo33 buy in jurong" into google - anyhow, you can just look at kelonguni post above to get the answer.
Could be. Having lived in Jurong from 2007-2010 I don't think it's half as bad as some on here have been posting - but then I think most have been posting just to push his buttons.
I just had a hard time understanding why people would pay double plus psf over existing condo in that area.
Sucker born every minute I guess.
Agree with rental
I've had no problem renting the unit out since I moved out. But I expect and get Jurong rental psf - not CCR rental psf. No big deal - I paid Jurong psf, not CCR psf.
Plus in future I can easily afford to beat this sort of competitor for tenants in a downturn.
I think its rude to be calling him a sucker. what property he choose to buy is his personal decision as it his own money.
So you are agreeing with him on the rental in Jurong, but you are also ganging up with those who constantly question the rental returns of Jurong property to criticized him.
Dont you think its a little too childish for an adult to behave in a property forum?
Actually I find you very combative in your post. Seriously I also disagree with you on your property 101 theory and I hope you are not going to come after me just because I disagree with you.
Anyway, this is a social forum, its for socializing, not for fighting. If you disagree with ringo, then perhaps you could start a separate thread to share your views.
peace!!
I agree - pls look back at your post to my reply to you. Without bothering to find out the background you jump in and start calling people childish without any checking, just speculate on who caused what. Well I suppose it's nice and lazy to do so. Sure beats making any effort right?
What kind of response do you think you are inviting?
In the mean time - I'll post where I please. I believe my post was on topic & found it most amusing that for a guy calling to cash out in Q1 2013 then went into the market at the absolute peak 6 months later.
ps
I see you , like ringo are somehow deciding that it's my theory, even though I have stated multiple times - I didn't come up with it. Google is your friend.
I agree - pls look back at your post to my reply to you. Without bothering to find out the background you jump in and start calling people childish without any checking, just speculate on who caused what. Well I suppose it's nice and lazy to do so. Sure beats making any effort right?
What kind of response do you think you are inviting?
In the mean time - I'll post where I please. I believe my post was on topic & found it most amusing that for a guy calling to cash out in Q1 2013 then went into the market at the absolute peak 6 months later.
ps
I see you , like ringo are somehow deciding that it's my theory, even though I have stated multiple times - I didn't come up with it. Google is your friend.
As what poloclub has said, where in this forum did Ringo disclose what he bought? All I read are just post by his "haters" speculating that he bought Jgateway all the way down to the exact size and psf. If you have the source perhaps you can share with us instead of asking us to google for it.
Having said that, if I have the money, I might also consider J Gateway because of its USPs. sadly, I dont **sob sob**
I think its rude to be calling him a sucker. what property he choose to buy is his personal decision as it his own money.
So you are agreeing with him on the rental in Jurong, but you are also ganging up with those who constantly question the rental returns of Jurong property to criticized him.
Dont you think its a little too childish for an adult to behave in a property forum?
Oh dear..... He is a sucker. It is his money.Nothing rude about it. His loss.
He tell people to cash out in Q1 - then pay record price for an asset that is double psf of surrounding condo.
I didn't agree anything with Ringo - I think you mean kelonguni, you seem to be getting confused.
If you bought at 500/600 psf in that area - price is good rental return is good. if you buy at 1700psf a stones throw away......
Frankly if you want to see childish , look through ringos old posts. Oh I forgot - that takes too much effort, just accuse everyone else of being childish without looking.
ps if you really want to use this forum as a social forum & everyone is to be nice to you - you may want to start thinking of how you start addressing people on subjects you cannot have any knowledge of since joining only in Dec 2014. Not a good starting point calling people childish. It's a bit ........ childish?
Oh dear..... He is a sucker. It is his money.Nothing rude about it. His loss.
He tell people to cash out in Q1 - then pay record price for an asset that is double psf of surrounding condo.
I didn't agree anything with Ringo - I think you mean kelonguni, you seem to be getting confused.
If you bought at 500/600 psf in that area - price is good rental return is good. if you buy at 1700psf a stones throw away......
Frankly if you want to see childish , look through ringos old posts. Oh I forgot - that takes too much effort, just accuse everyone else of being childish without looking.
ps if you really want to use this forum as a social forum & everyone is to be nice to you - you may want to start thinking of how you start addressing people on subjects you cannot have any knowledge of since joining only in Dec 2014. Not a good starting point calling people childish. It's a bit ........ childish?
I am not here to convince you to agree with him, what I wish to suggest is that you have to learn to agree to disagree because this is a social forum everyone is entitle to their opinion. An healthy discussion is one that involve facts and logic, not slandering and groundless accusation etc. e.g. call him a sucker, speculation what he bought and how much he pay for it.
For all you know, he might be richer and more successful than you, and will that make you even more comfortable?
Thought you know Ringo very well that is why you are his strongest supporter?
Also, you two joined this forum in the same month - Mar 2012! Food for thought! :surprise:
Since you know ringo so well, I thought I just ask you what he bought. I am sure it will take you less time to tell me the name of the development instead of saying i can find it using google.
I go know google search is powerful, but to use that to find out what ringo bought is almost impossible unless you know exactly what do look for.
So if it only take you 10 seconds then why cant you just attached the link to the page?
Ringo got banned and you come out. Are you Ringo's clone? :boxing:
I think its rude to be calling him a sucker. what property he choose to buy is his personal decision as it his own money.
So you are agreeing with him on the rental in Jurong, but you are also ganging up with those who constantly question the rental returns of Jurong property to criticized him.
Dont you think its a little too childish for an adult to behave in a property forum?
AssetRichMoneyPoor
07-01-15, 17:41
For all you know, he might be richer and more successful than you, and will that make you even more comfortable?
can't help but need to chip in my 2 cents worth.
might be more richer and more successful : his conduct suggests otherwise and far from your assumption.
you analogy warped tilting towards extreme to even suggest something along that possibility.
lame as it may be, you come across as ring pinggo. note : not saying you created multiple accounts, no one actually does but the person you seem to side with.
hindsight, ringgo must be killing himself to read all these yet unable to post! good job admin.
EBD has been to kind to call him a sucker.
He is in fact a liar, with no integrity and moral character, and insisted on putting words into my mouth and slander me! :mad:
Even if he is richer and more successful so what? He is still a scam-bag!
Any honorable person with integrity and good moral character will see him NO UP!
I think its rude to be calling him a sucker. what property he choose to buy is his personal decision as it his own money.
So you are agreeing with him on the rental in Jurong, but you are also ganging up with those who constantly question the rental returns of Jurong property to criticized him.
Dont you think its a little too childish for an adult to behave in a property forum?
I am not here to convince you to agree with him, what I wish to suggest is that you have to learn to agree to disagree because this is a social forum everyone is entitle to their opinion. An healthy discussion is one that involve facts and logic, not slandering and groundless accusation etc. e.g. call him a sucker, speculation what he bought and how much he pay for it.
For all you know, he might be richer and more successful than you, and will that make you even more comfortable?
AssetRichMoneyPoor
07-01-15, 17:45
EBD has been to kind to call him a sucker.
He is in fact a liar, with no integrity and moral character, and insisted on putting words into my mouth and slander me! :mad:
calm down :) to be so agitated is playing into his hands
Unlikely to be very rich and successful to begin with. The richest and most successful people in SG I know place all their funds in their chains of businesses or are very successful corporate leaders. Think about it, if a person earns over 100k a month, why would he go for rental of 3 to 5K? Minus mortgage only left 1 to 2K nett or less? Makes sense?
Ringo was a clone of somebody in this forum in 2009............ :mask:
That is why he/she always finger-point others as though other people are like him, going around creating so many clones to support himself!
When he failed in his prediction, he will reborn as another clone...........
tb, may I know what was ringo account name from 2009?
calm down :) to be so agitated is playing into his hands
Agree. This is obviously part of his strategy. Appear polite and scream how everyone is being horrid to him to get people banned.
If you noticed since joining recently a certain individual has only posted on ringo threads.
Posts in a very similar style.
Makes the same type of grammatical errors in writing posts.
Posting same type of data with same type of boasts about setting standards....
Seems to know damn well that coward ringo never dared to admit that he ever put his money where his mouth was - hence why I called ringo as having no skin in the game and being all fart and no shit
I want to give benefit of doubt even though seem to know so much about not only me but also ringo after only joining for few days, which means having to read over one thousand pages of junk to be sure that there is no post hidden in their that has ringo stating he bought j gateway.
Who has time to do that over 2 day? Yet someone seems confident there is no such post and is demanding it big dug up for them.
I mean after all, after raging about the dishonesty of people getting banned and coming back and pretending to be someone else & all his clone nonsense - the moment he gets caught & he won't be able to help himself if he really was banned, which I'm still not convinced he was. Look at the way he went through withdrawal symptom and spamming good threads after his BEWARE ver1 got locked before succumbing to the urge and creating BEWARE ver2 thread
I did some extreme googling, Poloclub doesn't look to be a reincarnation, although it does seem suspicious that he seemed to want me to find an reference to ringo purchase.
However looking through older posts back to 2012 - don't you just love googles advanced site search functions - his writing style looks different.
Poloclub, apologies if some of my earlier replies seemed terse. Why all just know that ringo has so little honour and integrity he won't be able to act to the standards he demands of others and not come back as a clone.
I'm already quite sure, but am generous enough to give benefit of the doubt.
I am not here to convince you to agree with him, what I wish to suggest is that you have to learn to agree to disagree because this is a social forum everyone is entitle to their opinion. An healthy discussion is one that involve facts and logic, not slandering and groundless accusation etc. e.g. call him a sucker, speculation what he bought and how much he pay for it.
For all you know, he might be richer and more successful than you, and will that make you even more comfortable?
I knew someone who joined this forum some time ago, who decided to tell everyone who had been registered and using it for years what it was for & what it wasn't for.
Hmmmmmm...... That writing style..... Hmmmmmmm facts and logic...... Trying to act nice after initially calling people you have never had a conversation before in you life with childish
Ps
He could be richer than me. But as some one once said on here many years ago this is not a place to boasts online and only real world matters. But you wouldn't know that asshole as you are someone completely different and new here.
Having said that, if I have the money, I might also consider J Gateway because of its USPs. sadly, I dont **sob sob**
I wouldn't , even if was within 5% psf with nearby condos.
The reason. Ringo33 wants to turn it into a condormitory as he calls them.
It's strange that a guy who created a thread on how pathetic over packed condo units are - was on here asking the how to let out a unit to multiple tenants , hypocritically turning his own unit into a condormitory.
Now whether you like j gateway or not, or think multiple subletting is ok. You have to agree that ringo was being contradictory to his own standards.
I can easily forward the links for those if you want, I have them bookmarked along with all his other contradictory posts he's made over the years, such as calculating yield.
hindsight, ringgo must be killing himself to read all these yet unable to post! good job admin.
I agree - I personally think he has already re-registered under a different name - something you would not expect a person who made such a fuss claiming everyone is clone, it would show they have zero personal integrity.
So given that userid Ringo cant jump back in, the new userid has to pretend not to be Ringo otherwise he will be laughed at & humiliated for being a world class hypocrite.
But at the sametime won't be able to resist his old threads and jump into defend Ringo - while pretending not to be him.
Unfortunately almost 18 months of battling so many people as Ringo this newbie will let slip things that only Ringo could know, then he's caught & exposed. In fact I'm pretty sure I know who it is already...... but I'm not 100%. I wouldn't want to accuse people of being clones even though Ringo accused me of being one...... although my userid was created 3 years before he joined.
He's trapped himself. But keeping poking his suspected clone about old issues that a newbie should know nothing about. Or say the opposite of your past conversations with him & wait for the total newbie to show remarkable knowledge of where you have contradicted yourself.
He won't be able to take it, his ego and need to be right is too large.
It's always been his Achilles heel. He'll take the bait, the mask will slip.
Poor guy - the torture he's under trying to keep it all straight in his head.
Haha, you echo my thoughts 100%. It's very tough thinking of what is going on in his mind right now.
But we'll be glad that any substitute will have to be much more moderate in his views. So no more hard selling. Yeah!
I agree - I personally think he has already re-registered under a different name - something you would not expect a person who made such a fuss claiming everyone is clone, it would show they have zero personal integrity.
So given that userid Ringo cant jump back in, the new userid has to pretend not to be Ringo otherwise he will be laughed at & humiliated for being a world class hypocrite.
But at the sametime won't be able to resist his old threads and jump into defend Ringo - while pretending not to be him.
Unfortunately almost 18 months of battling so many people as Ringo this newbie will let slip things that only Ringo could know, then he's caught & exposed. In fact I'm pretty sure I know who it is already...... but I'm not 100%. I wouldn't want to accuse people of being clones even though Ringo accused me of being one...... although my userid was created 3 years before he joined.
He's trapped himself. But keeping poking his suspected clone about old issues that a newbie should know nothing about. Or say the opposite of your past conversations with him & wait for the total newbie to show remarkable knowledge of where you have contradicted yourself.
He won't be able to take it, his ego and need to be right is too large.
It's always been his Achilles heel. He'll take the bait, the mask will slip.
Poor guy - the torture he's under trying to keep it all straight in his head.
AssetRichMoneyPoor
09-01-15, 09:27
hindsight, ringgo must be killing himself to read all these yet unable to post! good job admin.
i was wrong, ringgo most likely has resurface in a new form :(
Sure come back or already backed in action. Camp here almost 24x7 marketing JLD.. 100% back liao.. but we have to agree that the forum would be quieter..
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