View Full Version : Decoupling For 2nd Property?
Heard it from 10pm news some buyers decouple(remove name from title) in order to buyer another pty w/o paying ABSD.
Its saying may not be wise cos need to pay 3% stamp duty for removing a name.
A friend told me he is doing this as the stamp duty is half of 3% if its just removing one name from the title.
So who is right?
Heard it from 10pm news some buyers decouple(remove name from title) in order to buyer another pty w/o paying ABSD.
Its saying may not be wise cos need to pay 3% stamp duty for removing a name.
A friend told me he is doing this as the stamp duty is half of 3% if its just removing one name from the title.
So who is right?
Buy second property 7%. Obviously decoupling will be a cheaper route no? Unless it's a gcb then maybe it's too ex to decouple unless you planning to buy another gcb.
Not every couple can do this if you're planning on taking a loan. Both must have substantial earning power for loans to be approved
buttercarp
21-03-13, 23:02
Hi price, I made you another signature as requested.
Tell me if you prefer it to be bigger.
http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2013/03/21/6312ece0529e83d0b7c81ada95afb356.gif
blackjack21trader
21-03-13, 23:16
Heard it from 10pm news some buyers decouple(remove name from title) in order to buyer another pty w/o paying ABSD.
Its saying may not be wise cos need to pay 3% stamp duty for removing a name.
A friend told me he is doing this as the stamp duty is half of 3% if its just removing one name from the title.
So who is right?
so may i ask if this apply to tenants-in-common or can be used for joint tenancy also ? Will the stamp duties be different ?
Hi...I encouraged this notion. More taking up loans.
Next, I will be hoping for a crash. So those who stretch themselves with two or more properties will need to make space(s) for the crash.
Allthepies
21-03-13, 23:27
If stamp duty is 1.5%, I don't mind decoupling.
Heard it from 10pm news some buyers decouple(remove name from title) in order to buyer another pty w/o paying ABSD.
Its saying may not be wise cos need to pay 3% stamp duty for removing a name.
A friend told me he is doing this as the stamp duty is half of 3% if its just removing one name from the title.
So who is right?
stamp is not 1.5%, it is still 3%.
but the value is proportional.
eg $1million, 60% by A, 40% by B.
B transfer to A, stamp duty is 3% x (40% of 1million)
not 1.5% x 1milion.
blackjack21trader
21-03-13, 23:34
so may i ask if this apply to tenants-in-common or can be used for joint tenancy also ? Will the stamp duties be different ?
from what i understand, for a joint tenant to cease the name from the title deed, he must die first or otherwise convert the tenancy to tenancy in common. you experts here say i say like this correct or not?
Hi price, I made you another signature as requested.
Tell me if you prefer it to be bigger.
http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2013/03/21/6312ece0529e83d0b7c81ada95afb356.gif
Thanks sister!!! :D:D this is perfect!
blackjack21trader
21-03-13, 23:35
stamp is not 1.5%, it is still 3%.
but the value is proportional.
eg $1million, 60% by A, 40% by B.
B transfer to A, stamp duty is 3% x (40% of 1million)
not 1.5% x 1milion.
that is the reason why i ask about joint tenancy, see above. and nobody knows the answer ?
sigh.....
blackjack21trader
21-03-13, 23:36
Thanks sister!!! :D:D this is perfect!
please make one banner :" I AM SO HANDSOME " for me. thanks.
For joint-tenancy, it should half of 3%, or 1.5% of the price. Considerably lower than 7% or 10% ABSD. But, better confirm with lawyer.
stamp is not 1.5%, it is still 3%.
but the value is proportional.
eg $1million, 60% by A, 40% by B.
B transfer to A, stamp duty is 3% x (40% of 1million)
not 1.5% x 1milion.
tks hopeful
buttercarp
22-03-13, 00:11
please make one banner :" I AM SO HANDSOME " for me. thanks.
For you bro BJ.
http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2013/03/21/4191bb38f132c0dec18c294de57b552d.gif
thomastansb
22-03-13, 00:17
Many people were hoping since Q3 2009. They were disappointed for 4 years. Since US is continuing to print close to a hundred billion dollars a month, maybe need to wait for a few more years. I heard China, Japan and ECB also joining the printing frenzy. Oh ya, Singapore also :D
Hi...I encouraged this notion. More taking up loans.
Next, I will be hoping for a crash. So those who stretch themselves with two or more properties will need to make space(s) for the crash.
bakasa2002
22-03-13, 00:24
Nx thing we know be like China where couples divorce to buy properties ...:doh:
Not every couple can do this if you're planning on taking a loan. Both must have substantial earning power for loans to be approved
Also the seller stamp duty clock restarts at point of decoupling right?
yes, for the decoupled portion.
Also the seller stamp duty clock restarts at point of decoupling right?
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 06:14
For you bro BJ.
http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2013/03/21/4191bb38f132c0dec18c294de57b552d.gif
Thanks, appreciate ur work, good sister :)
Hi...I encouraged this notion. More taking up loans.
Next, I will be hoping for a crash. So those who stretch themselves with two or more properties will need to make space(s) for the crash.
....theres's a different between a good wine and a bad Whine.....the latter is sour.....though both are made of grapes....
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 06:18
....theres's a different between a good wine and a bad Whine.....the latter is sour.....though both are made of grapes....
your England is very good :)
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 08:04
For joint-tenancy, it should half of 3%, or 1.5% of the price. Considerably lower than 7% or 10% ABSD. But, better confirm with lawyer.
Thanks good brother economist. I will check with my most powerful lawyer, however I thought it is best I check with you guys here to confirm first before meeting with him so that I can sound smarter.
Allthepies
22-03-13, 08:07
Thanks good brother economist. I will check with my most powerful lawyer, however I thought it is best I check with you guys here to confirm first before meeting with him so that I can sound smarter.
Do share share with us once you have an answer from your lawyer.:)
Allthepies
22-03-13, 08:07
Thanks good brother economist. I will check with my most powerful lawyer, however I thought it is best I check with you guys here to confirm first before meeting with him so that I can sound smarter.
Do share share with us once you have an answer from your lawyer.:)
smellyfish
22-03-13, 11:51
this is exactly what i did, transferred to wife to make a purchase. not so much for the stamp duties savings, but for the LTV. :o
also because of revised valuation, get to unlock some equity from existing property. :o
the bank will treat it as a arms length sale of 1/2 share of property, assuming its joint tenancy
leakage is:
stamp duty - yes, you only pay 3% of 1/2 if joint tenant.
lousier loan package - was having a step down package previously:banghead:
legal fees - you pay for both buyer and seller. no subsidies these days.
this is exactly what i did, transferred to wife to make a purchase. not so much for the stamp duties savings, but for the LTV. :o
also because of revised valuation, get to unlock some equity from existing property. :o
the bank will treat it as a arms length sale of 1/2 share of property, assuming its joint tenancy
leakage is:
stamp duty - yes, you only pay 3% of 1/2 if joint tenant.
lousier loan package - was having a step down package previously:banghead:
legal fees - you pay for both buyer and seller. no subsidies these days.
tks. first hand exp
this is exactly what i did, transferred to wife to make a purchase. not so much for the stamp duties savings, but for the LTV. :o
also because of revised valuation, get to unlock some equity from existing property. :o
the bank will treat it as a arms length sale of 1/2 share of property, assuming its joint tenancy
leakage is:
stamp duty - yes, you only pay 3% of 1/2 if joint tenant.
lousier loan package - was having a step down package previously:banghead:
legal fees - you pay for both buyer and seller. no subsidies these days.
For me I would not dare to make this move to save some $$... scared wifey run away with my house :D
Thanks Bro. Did you have to re-assess your property based on current market value.
Also, If you already have existing properties then would the existing ABSD and 4 year lockin apply. Will SD be 3%+(7% if 2nd and 10% if 3rd property onwards).
this is exactly what i did, transferred to wife to make a purchase. not so much for the stamp duties savings, but for the LTV. :o
also because of revised valuation, get to unlock some equity from existing property. :o
the bank will treat it as a arms length sale of 1/2 share of property, assuming its joint tenancy
leakage is:
stamp duty - yes, you only pay 3% of 1/2 if joint tenant.
lousier loan package - was having a step down package previously:banghead:
legal fees - you pay for both buyer and seller. no subsidies these days.
buttercarp
22-03-13, 12:40
For me I would not dare to make this move to save some $$... scared wifey run away with my house :D
LOL, I thought it should be the other way round?
buttercarp
22-03-13, 12:42
Thanks, appreciate ur work, good sister :)
No worries Bro.
Glad you like it.
Now when I see your post, the first thing I see is your signature!
LOL, I thought it should be the other way round?
Hmm... yeah hor! depending on whose name it on the more expensive unit. LOL
I inquired about this and lawyer told be legal fees for decouple is quite high, around $8k. Anyone can verify this?
In addition, if CPF was used by the 50% seller to purchase that property, then the one taking over the 50% has to fund back the CPF + Interests.
Think you can get quotations from other lawyers to compare, 2K-3K for one side of transaction is norm. So, altogether it should be 4K-6K.
Think you can get quotations from other lawyers to compare, 2K-3K for one side of transaction is norm. So, altogether it should be 4K-6K.
couple of thousands is still way cheaper than the 7% ABSD. for a $1.5mil property, that works out to be $105k.
A crash should happen to punish people who chooses to decouple properties.
A crash should happen to punish people who chooses to decouple properties.
spoken truly like someone who missed the boat
For me I would not dare to make this move to save some $$... scared wifey run away with my house :D
for the one under husband name, wife is not worried due to women's charter.
for the other one, i am not sure. is husband protected? mitigate with a will?
for the one under husband name, wife is not worried due to women's charter.
for the other one, i am not sure. is husband protected? mitigate with a will?
Only time will tell. Perhaps 10 years down the road we will see news of this in the papers :spliff:
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:15
very great inputs from the brothers and sisters here regarding this topic. I understand and expected that the law here will treat any decoupling as sales from the first to the second. I vaguely recalled one of my lawyer friend told me that even transfer of name is also treated like a sales and hence in all matter relating to the title of this thread, stamp duties have to be paid regardless.
I just got a feeling in my stomach that our policy makers may also apply the Additional buyers/sellers stamp duties into the stamp duties of such "decoupling".
Our vocal brothers and sisters in the mass media is really helping the policy makers to sharpen their cooling measures to near perfect now.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:23
pardon me to say this but I really think the vocal ones should not go on the mass media to shout just about anything on property without first asking the brothers and sisters in this forum for their opinions first la.
:(
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:25
You see now I kena sabo-ed for nothing, I have been keeping quiet earning my keeps from property since 25 years ago. But 4 years ago, those young punks shout and shout until now I am stuck liao la. And I dun even own a single HDB, I also kena SABO-ED ! SIGH-YO-YO :(
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:26
Now you guys understand why I fainted 2 weeks ago and warded at IMH liao boh ?
:(
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:28
Flowers can commit suicide when they see beautiful women walking past.
I whole stomach hot air also no backside to let off liao la.....
:(
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:30
Now everyday I dun dare to read the local newspaper liao. I only go hotel buy Nikkei Shimbun........sigh....that is how scared I am of the young punks now.
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:31
My doctor says if everyday I scared and scared, my mental problem might develop into a heart problem la......SIGH......my heart is weak la....
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:34
the worse is those that go on newspaper every Sundays to flaunt their wealth and the millions they made in properties. Really SABO-ED my backside HARD HARD la.....SIGH...YO..GOT MONEY EARN MONEY DIAM DIAM MAH....Share here can already, dun need to tell the whole world ....SIGH
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:36
Now the World is people will not envy your wealth..BUT JEALOUS la....they will not understand you took big risks to invest and make money, they think you never work and money comes easy to you la....SIGH YO....UNCLE HEART SIBEI WEAK NOW..
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 20:38
2 weeks ago I went IMH....I think next week I will go SGH or TAN TOCK SENG liao la.
Allthepies
22-03-13, 20:42
Now the World is people will not envy your wealth..BUT JEALOUS la....they will not understand you took big risks to invest and make money, they think you never work and money comes easy to you la....SIGH YO....UNCLE HEART SIBEI WEAK NOW..
Very true.
Tat why sometimes those who found the secret to success are unwilling to share with the whining and self defeated people. If these people whine less and are less jealous of rich people which they secretly aspire to be, then maybe the successful people are more willing to give them a helping hand.
Very true.
Tat why sometimes those who found the secret to success are unwilling to share with the whining and self defeated people. If these people whine less and are less jealous of rich people which they secretly aspire to be, then maybe the successful people are more willing to give them a helping hand.
actually I think property speculation actually hurt even other people who DON'T speculate.
It is not something which you can stand on the sidelines and stay neutral because EVERYONE needs to buy house. And a housing crash will probably kill the speculators but it will also hurt non-speculators (See spain)
If you are speculating in Tulips, then the reactions probably are not that strong.
The higher the prices go up now the worse the crash later.
I really do hope that prices will correct soon and I think they will.
PS: I have bought my landed in 2009, so you can't really say I missed the boat...
Allthepies
22-03-13, 21:31
actually I think property speculation actually hurt even other people who DON'T speculate.
It is not something which you can stand on the sidelines and stay neutral because EVERYONE needs to buy house. And a housing crash will probably kill the speculators but it will also hurt non-speculators (See spain)
If you are speculating in Tulips, then the reactions probably are not that strong.
The higher the prices go up now the worse the crash later.
I really do hope that prices will correct soon and I think they will.
PS: I have bought my landed in 2009, so you can't really say I missed the boat...
if you say everyone needs a house, i fully agree with you. but not everyone deserve a condo or a big house or a penthouse, most people will find house still very affordable if they buy within their means and not shoot for the sky :2cents::2cents::2cents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3TTses-0M
if you say everyone needs a house, i fully agree with you. but not everyone deserve a condo or a big house or a penthouse, most people will find house still very affordable if they buy within their means and not shoot for the sky :2cents::2cents::2cents:
The young punks think they deserve the duxton at $100k.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 22:46
people always blame the high property prices to the speculators ... little they know about the expansion of monetary base
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/singapore-money-supply-m2.png?s=singaporemonsupm2&d1=20030101&d2=20130331
people always blame the high property prices to the speculators ... little they know about the expansion of monetary base
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/singapore-money-supply-m2.png?s=singaporemonsupm2&d1=20030101&d2=20130331
and they probably don't understand the impact when the velocity of money kicks into high gear which compounds that expanded monetary base.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 22:48
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ifZ-l7BWhRQ/Tv2-imNjXqI/AAAAAAAAAPU/dS-cj9nDNBE/s640/Singapore+M2+Money+Supply.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ifZ-l7BWhRQ/Tv2-imNjXqI/AAAAAAAAAPU/dS-cj9nDNBE/s640/Singapore+M2+Money+Supply.png
m2 doubled since 2005.
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 22:53
Only 2 brothers here kane and phantom_opera truly can discern what I see in the future of our World; or rather I should say, I agree and understood completely what they are talking about.
and the sad part is, I walk with the ILLUMINATED and know what is coming.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 22:56
this kind of BT article is rare, once in a while only lah:
http://business.asiaone.com/print/Business/My%2BMoney/Opinion/Story/A1Story20110131-261348.html
Between 2000 and 2010, M2 money supply grew 135%, or 8.9% a year in the past 10 years, to $401.4 billion.
Thu, Feb 10, 2011
The Business Times
By Teh Hooi Ling
Senior Correspondent
=> as of Jan 2013, M2 stands at $484b :tsk-tsk:
If I tell you now, our inflation is good. Would you believe me ?
You will not.
If I tell you now,our real inflation here is now lower than in the USA, would you believe me ?
No, you will not.
And if I tell you, printing of US$ is good for us, you would not believe me.
You will say I am siao.
:doh: :doh: :doh:
And they think they deserve to sell at $1m and earn $900k!
The young punks think they deserve the duxton at $100k.
actually, some of the siaolang like alam and DNNCB's fear is quite legitimate.
why do I say that "quite".
because what they are shouting is the "effect" or "result" of what could happen with all the abusive printing.
But, they miss out one very crucial point.
Just WHEN is that CRASH they proposed going to happen?
Methink it will not happen until like 60 years later.
:doh: :doh: :doh:
and they probably don't understand the impact when the velocity of money kicks into high gear which compounds that expanded monetary base.
totally agree. The objective is to EXPAND THE M BASE. keep that in mind ;)
this kind of BT article is rare, once in a while only lah:
http://business.asiaone.com/print/Business/My%2BMoney/Opinion/Story/A1Story20110131-261348.html
Between 2000 and 2010, M2 money supply grew 135%, or 8.9% a year in the past 10 years, to $401.4 billion.
Thu, Feb 10, 2011
The Business Times
By Teh Hooi Ling
Senior Correspondent
=> as of Jan 2013, M2 stands at $484b :tsk-tsk:
incidentally, M2 is quite reflective as an indicator of inflation. many economists like to use that as an inflationary gauge. I, for the reason that I am no economists, like to see the M2 as a form of liquid moving in various speed ;)
That is why, when brother kane said "velocity", the hairs behind my neck stood up and I got all very excited la.
WOAHAHEHEHEHHEEHH
incidentally, M2 is quite reflective as an indicator of inflation. many economists like to use that as an inflationary gauge. I, for the reason that I am no economists, like to see the M2 as a form of liquid moving in various speed ;)
That is why, when brother kane said "velocity", the hairs behind my neck stood up and I got all very excited la.
WOAHAHEHEHEHHEEHH
Though I am no economists, my economic intelligence is far greater than any of them.
In fact, the reason why I go Woodbridge is also because I studied too much economic subjects.
;)
Though I am no economists, my economic intelligence is far greater than any of them.
In fact, the reason why I go Woodbridge is also because I studied too much economic subjects.
;)
But I found one final truth in economic study. The truth is, you have to know human nature to perfect the economic ruler.
;) ;) ;) ( wink wink )
blackjack21trader
22-03-13, 23:42
and I remember now... during my NUS days, there was a very very pretty highly intelligent female classmate that I was going after. What she told me is very true, even until today as I recall it.
She told me :" Jack, you are very BRILLIANT! "
She paused to look at me and then continued :" But then again, ALL SIAOLANGS are also very BRILLIANT ! "
(SIAOLANGS= Mentally UNSTABLE or UNSOUND )
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
if you say everyone needs a house, i fully agree with you. but not everyone deserve a condo or a big house or a penthouse, most people will find house still very affordable if they buy within their means and not shoot for the sky :2cents::2cents::2cents:
?? it is not about within or out of means.
no matter how much you want to spent, property speculation is going to hurt everyone who wants to buy a house to stay.
Example, if I want a simple resale HDB flat, previously if I have 300k I can probably get something decent... but now you just have to get something smaller/further....
It just means people have to pay much more to get the same house or get a smaller place.
Frankly, I can say all these easily as I already have a nice landed to stay. Thankfully I got my place before the madness set in. Still I think it is really unfair that just because you are born few years later, you have to pay literally MILLIONS more to get EXACTLY the same house.
The money earned by property speculators does not fall out of the sky. Someone has to pay for it. It is either the Poor/unlucky people who enter the cycle late or bail outs at the end by taxpayers or speculators who will spend the next 10 years paying off their massive housing loans.
How about it is even more unfair if >60% of people who bought their new HDB flat pay >$400k for a new 5rm flat and now Mr Khaw say want to make it cheaper by 30%? And you can make it >80% including those who already own their HDB flats. How can it be fair to take care of <10% of citizens and disregard the other 80% of the citizens currently owning HDB flats by trying to crash their property prices?! :doh:
What do you mean by paying millions $? Does a new HDB flat ever cost $1m? If you talk about private properties, that is a WANT, not a necessity! Otherwise might as well ask govt to let everybody buy a car cheap cheap! :tongue3:
?? it is not about within or out of means.
no matter how much you want to spent, property speculation is going to hurt everyone who wants to buy a house to stay.
Example, if I want a simple resale HDB flat, previously if I have 300k I can probably get something decent... but now you just have to get something smaller/further....
It just means people have to pay much more to get the same house or get a smaller place.
Frankly, I can say all these easily as I already have a nice landed to stay. Thankfully I got my place before the madness set in. Still I think it is really unfair that just because you are born few years later, you have to pay literally MILLIONS more to get EXACTLY the same house.
The money earned by property speculators does not fall out of the sky. Someone has to pay for it. It is either the Poor/unlucky people who enter the cycle late or bail outs at the end by taxpayers or speculators who will spend the next 10 years paying off their massive housing loans.
How about it is even more unfair if >60% of people who bought their new HDB flat pay >$400k for a new 5rm flat and now Mr Khaw say want to make it cheaper by 30%? And you can make it >80% including those who already own their HDB flats. How can it be fair to take care of <10% of citizens and disregard the other 80% of the citizens currently owning HDB flats by trying to crash their property prices?! :doh:
What do you mean by paying millions $? Does a new HDB flat ever cost $1m? If you talk about private properties, that is a WANT, not a necessity! Otherwise might as well ask govt to let everybody buy a car cheap cheap! :tongue3:
err... the millions is refering to my case, landed property. I am thankful I got in in 2009 else I literally have to pay millions more to get the same place...
sigh... I keep seeing the argument that just because 80% of the population own HDB, these 80% will support a rising housing price repeated by the same people...
The rational is so simplistic that it borders stupidity. Whether or not a person wants a rising property market depends on whether he is thinking of upgrading or downgrading his property. A vast majority of people tends to upgrade and to these people, rising prices is always bad.
but you can see the market cooling down as seen by the REDUCED activity in this forum....
most of the posts are just by die hard posters...
I guess there isn't much money to be made now... it is just wait and see how long before the fall comes in....
It will be interesting when it comes
This is the group who may not have experienced downturn or may have forgotten the last downturn and willing to take risk. They think is growing and will not have another asian crisis. :D
but you can see the market cooling down as seen by the REDUCED activity in this forum....
most of the posts are just by die hard posters...
I guess there isn't much money to be made now... it is just wait and see how long before the fall comes in....
It will be interesting when it comes
Allthepies
23-03-13, 12:59
err... the millions is refering to my case, landed property. I am thankful I got in in 2009 else I literally have to pay millions more to get the same place...
sigh... I keep seeing the argument that just because 80% of the population own HDB, these 80% will support a rising housing price repeated by the same people...
The rational is so simplistic that it borders stupidity. Whether or not a person wants a rising property market depends on whether he is thinking of upgrading or downgrading his property. A vast majority of people tends to upgrade and to these people, rising prices is always bad.
It equally border on simplicity just because less than 5% of genuine cases who have problem affording a HDB, you want to crash the whole market. Increasing subsidies for these genuine cases may be the way to go rather than cause the whole market to crash.
It equally border on simplicity just because less than 5% of genuine cases who have problem affording a HDB, you want to crash the whole market. Increasing subsidies for these genuine cases may be the way to go rather than cause the whole market to crash.
I think it's not a matter of crashing the market, but rather lower the property price to a more realistic level with respect to our pple's income. afterall we all know that property price rising too fast over income is not sustainable in the longer term
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 13:21
my target of 270 for resale hdb will come sooner once the khaw gives option for socialist HDBs
but you can see the market cooling down as seen by the REDUCED activity in this forum....
most of the posts are just by die hard posters...
I guess there isn't much money to be made now... it is just wait and see how long before the fall comes in....
It will be interesting when it comes
My usual advice - just go down to the showflat and see for yourself, understand why people buying.
You think the thousands of buyers are all stupid ?
they dont know that the upside will not be like last time where we earn 40-50% in a few years ? They all know.
They have moved on that thought liao.
The current thinking is ... where else can I park my money which is depreciating by the day in the bank account and kanna makan up by the inflation monster.
Locals are starting to accept the 7-10% ABSD already. And foreigners (slowly - we see some coming to the showflats) are trickling in and accepting the 15% ABSD. Because in China, they cannot even buy, leave money in the bank is like staring at your Gardenia bread everyday seeing how the mould grow ... haha!
If you have put money in property market since 2 years ago, you may not make a lot by now, but if you left money in bank account, by now it is worth 10% lesser!
Office Boy is not say totally vested in properties, I also got some money parked in bank growing mould, so I can totally understand how those with all their money in the bank account feels.
DKSG
I think it's not a matter of crashing the market, but rather lower the property price to a more realistic level with respect to our pple's income. afterall we all know that property price rising too fast over income is not sustainable in the longer term
prices have been rising on the back of rental support rather than employment income support.
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 15:36
...
Office Boy is not say totally vested in properties, I also got some money parked in bank growing mould, so I can totally understand how those with all their money in the bank account feels.
DKSG
Every year I see my bank money getting less cups of Toast Box kopi
And the airline fuel tax getting ridiculuous ... India is 500 per person, Taiwan is 360 per person :scared-5: (or downgrade to budget airline !!!)
Every year I see my bank money getting less cups of Toast Box kopi
And the airline fuel tax getting ridiculuous ... India is 500 per person, Taiwan is 360 per person :scared-5: (or downgrade to budget airline !!!)
taking budget is not an option. i hate delays and cancellations.
I think it's not a matter of crashing the market, but rather lower the property price to a more realistic level with respect to our pple's income. afterall we all know that property price rising too fast over income is not sustainable in the longer term
yup agreed. That is why property speculation is bad as they push up the housing prices much faster than income.
Those people who make money from property speculation is basically hurting normal people who are buying houses. It just drops everyone standard of life as you are forced into smaller/lower quality homes with the same amount of money.
Frankly, the present government is too soft unlike government of yesterday who are more confident of their popularity. Current government has no confidence to introduce decisive measures.
But I don't think you can "lower" the property prices slightly. When the prices reverses, it is just going to drop off a cliff. Just look at history...
yup agreed. That is why property speculation is bad as they push up the housing prices much faster than income.
Those people who make money from property speculation is basically hurting normal people who are buying houses. It just drops everyone standard of life as you are forced into smaller/lower quality homes with the same amount of money.
Frankly, the present government is too soft unlike government of yesterday who are more confident of their popularity. Current government has no confidence to introduce decisive measures.
But I don't think you can "lower" the property prices slightly. When the prices reverses, it is just going to drop off a cliff. Just look at history...
They control BOTH supply and demand.
So they can decide exactly where they want prices to be.
They have long stated their objective - stable increase in property prices in line with economic growth. This means 2 things, one - no drastic decrease, two - long term price growth (in line with economy).
It is easy to lower prices, just stop people from buying second properties like in China. Everyone only need 1 house to stay, second unit is what is pushing prices down.
Those with more than 1 unit, can only sell to those without any units.
But will they orchestra such moves to crash the market ? They wont because they are responsible to 90% of the population who already own a property (or their parents own a property).
DKSG
My usual advice - just go down to the showflat and see for yourself, understand why people buying.
You think the thousands of buyers are all stupid ?
they dont know that the upside will not be like last time where we earn 40-50% in a few years ? They all know.
They have moved on that thought liao.
The current thinking is ... where else can I park my money which is depreciating by the day in the bank account and kanna makan up by the inflation monster.
Locals are starting to accept the 7-10% ABSD already. And foreigners (slowly - we see some coming to the showflats) are trickling in and accepting the 15% ABSD. Because in China, they cannot even buy, leave money in the bank is like staring at your Gardenia bread everyday seeing how the mould grow ... haha!
If you have put money in property market since 2 years ago, you may not make a lot by now, but if you left money in bank account, by now it is worth 10% lesser!
Office Boy is not say totally vested in properties, I also got some money parked in bank growing mould, so I can totally understand how those with all their money in the bank account feels.
DKSG
this is straight-forward truth -as I have mentioned previously,a lot of my colleagues go into this for the exact same reason. Where there is rental and enough to pay montlhly installments while they stay with their parents - that is the 'upside' that they see ... in time to come they will move in or sell off when they want to start a family .... u think they would *& in their pants just because rental yields now slightly less than per last time glorious days?
No time to monitor when not even enough time to sleep ... property is a good auto pilot mode of just parking your cash to guard against inflation
this is straight-forward truth -as I have mentioned previously,a lot of my colleagues go into this for the exact same reason. Where there is rental and enough to pay montlhly installments while they stay with their parents - that is the 'upside' that they see ... in time to come they will move in or sell off when they want to start a family .... u think they would *& in their pants just because rental yields now slightly less than per last time glorious days?
No time to monitor when not even enough time to sleep ... property is a good auto pilot mode of just parking your cash to guard against inflation
actually I think they would if interest rates go up to the norm... which is like 3-4%.
I don't think they will shit in their pants, I think they will LS...
That is the "risk" that MAS can threaten them with. Example HK interest rate is around 2.8% and it went up to 3.1%. It is not the initial value of the increase... once the interest rate starts to go up, who can say where it will stop. I think the threat of rising interest rate is enough to cool off the market quite a bit.
As you said, the upside they all see is rental covering loan. Ya, all is rosy when interest rate is 1%. you think what will happen at 3-4%?
Thankfully we have HK to show our incompetent government how it is done. As usual, Singapore will probably follow suit after a while.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/579166_10151380966022568_806078167_n.jpg
Have you done your stress test today?
Some parameters:
1- Interest rates maintains at 1%, rental maintains at current market rate
2- Interest rates shots up to 3%, rental maintains at current market rate
3- Interest rates shots up to 3%, rental dips 50%
4- Interest rates shots up to 6%, rental maintains at current market rate
5- Interest rates shots up to 6%, rental dips 50%
Note: Assuming worse case scenario of job lost and the rental is used to pay for the monthly loan. If you have cash reserves, assume sufficient funds for monthly top up for min of 3yrs for each property
If you can tahan all 5 levels, then congrats. Most pple will probably die halfway during stress test due to overstress.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 20:25
But will they orchestra such moves to crash the market ? They wont because they are responsible to 90% of the population who already own a property (or their parents own a property).
DKSG
The government wants to see a soft landing not a crash for financial stability.
The government is not so concern about the 90% of the population that own a property because only the minority who bought properties over the last three years are the ones who will be seriously affected should we experience a serious price correction.
Majority will only experience a reduction in the values of their properties and they well know that prices will rise again over time.
The government wants to see a soft landing not a crash for financial stability.
The government is not so concern about the 90% of the population that own a property because only the minority who bought properties over the last three years are the ones who will be seriously affected should we experience a serious price correction.
Majority will only experience a reduction in the values of their properties and they well know that prices will rise again over time.
Agree.
Unknown to many, actually in the current interest rate environment, landlords are arm-chio-ing to the bank. A few hundred bucks increase in instalments wont hurt most of the investors.
DKSG
actually I think they would if interest rates go up to the norm... which is like 3-4%.
I don't think they will shit in their pants, I think they will LS...
That is the "risk" that MAS can threaten them with. Example HK interest rate is around 2.8% and it went up to 3.1%. It is not the initial value of the increase... once the interest rate starts to go up, who can say where it will stop. I think the threat of rising interest rate is enough to cool off the market quite a bit.
As you said, the upside they all see is rental covering loan. Ya, all is rosy when interest rate is 1%. you think what will happen at 3-4%?
Thankfully we have HK to show our incompetent government how it is done. As usual, Singapore will probably follow suit after a while.
I am pretty sure the above holds true for buyers cutting it very close in terms of affording the bare min and hoping things will go rosy or chose to optimise a few properties
if u look at the property purchase as a funds investment vehicle to guard against inflation, a substantial part of the property is already paid up with a huge downpayment - then i guess it would not matter as much as it does.
In the famous words of a forumer here - properties not meant to be flipped one ... meant to be bought and then hold comfortably, the holding power especially when it comes to singapore properties is key i guess
I inquired about this and lawyer told be legal fees for decouple is quite high, around $8k. Anyone can verify this?
In addition, if CPF was used by the 50% seller to purchase that property, then the one taking over the 50% has to fund back the CPF + Interests.
Bear in mind, apart from the usual S&P legal cost and stamp duty for half of the property, you will also incur the Trust Deed legal cost and stamp duty. Trust Deed will ensure your husband (wife) is just holding the property for you and you are still the beneficiary. Your lawyer can list down the details such as he/she cannot sell without your agreement, etc. So no motivation for he/she to run away.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=2112
Sample Trust Deed for Shares, similar things can be arranged for property.
http://www.lawonline.com.sg/trust-deed.htm
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 12:59
actually I think they would if interest rates go up to the norm... which is like 3-4%.
I don't think they will shit in their pants, I think they will LS...
That is the "risk" that MAS can threaten them with. Example HK interest rate is around 2.8% and it went up to 3.1%. It is not the initial value of the increase... once the interest rate starts to go up, who can say where it will stop. I think the threat of rising interest rate is enough to cool off the market quite a bit.
As you said, the upside they all see is rental covering loan. Ya, all is rosy when interest rate is 1%. you think what will happen at 3-4%?
Thankfully we have HK to show our incompetent government how it is done. As usual, Singapore will probably follow suit after a while.
they won't la... if mortgage rates up, deposit rates also up. the interest from their fixed deposits will contra the installment lor.....sigh
A crash will wake up the followers.
they won't la... if mortgage rates up, deposit rates also up. the interest from their fixed deposits will contra the installment lor.....sigh
Your statement is valid provided fixed deposit account have equivalent amount to mortgage outstanding amount.
No equivalent amount how to contra? :tsk-tsk:
Hi
going back to decoupling options have some queries :
1. when the couple decides to decouple on current property, does it also incur Sellers tamp duty (assume current property is bought after SSD was implemented ) ?
2. does any CPF amount used need to be returned back ?
3. How long does the legal process usually takes for this 'decoupling' ?
4. How does the 'Trust deed' works ?Can it still prevent the person remaining in the decoupled property to sell property without spouse consent ?
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 18:30
Your statement is valid provided fixed deposit account have equivalent amount to mortgage outstanding amount.
No equivalent amount how to contra? :tsk-tsk:
My fixed deposit do not have an equivalent amount, as I do not intend to contra the full 100% of the installment. I mitigate the mortgages by about 30 to 40% on the average.
I have 5 fixed deposit accounts, all linked to 5 of my 15 properties. So, no matter how the interest rates move, I am able to counter it by at least 30% because I split my Director's fees into 6 parts ( Sixth part is my own living expenses ) from my current account and then topup the respective fixed deposits with fresh funds every year.
Out of these 15 properties, 10 are rented out and are self-sufficient, that is the rental contra 100% the mortgages.
The rest of the 5, I just use them to squat the land as they are freehold.
I believe many RICH are using my method ( because I tutored them @ US$10,000 each lesson ), and that is why I believe property in Singapore WILL NEVER CRASH...well, maybe it will CRASH AFTER I INSIDE COFFIN LA....WOAHAHHEHHEHEHEHEHEHH
That is my secret, believe or not is up to you.
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 18:39
My fixed deposit do not have an equivalent amount, as I do not intend to contra the full 100% of the installment. I mitigate the mortgages by about 30 to 40% on the average.
I have 5 fixed deposit accounts, all linked to 5 of my 15 properties. So, no matter how the interest rates move, I am able to counter it by at least 30% because I split my Director's fees into 6 parts ( Sixth part is my own living expenses ) from my current account and then topup the respective fixed deposits with fresh funds every year.
Out of these 15 properties, 10 are rented out and are self-sufficient, that is the rental contra 100% the mortgages.
The rest of the 5, I just use them to squat the land as they are freehold.
I believe many RICH are using my method ( because I tutored them @ US$10,000 each lesson ), and that is why I believe property in Singapore WILL NEVER CRASH...well, maybe it will CRASH AFTER I INSIDE COFFIN LA....WOAHAHHEHHEHEHEHEHEHH
That is my secret, believe or not is up to you.
I became very very rich after 2009, when all my properties appreciated more than my initial investment. That is when I took out equity from my fully paid properties to pay for those loans to below 50% of the quantum.
As the years move ahead to now 2013, I have managed to repay fully 1 of these 5 squating landed. In fact, one of these was aunctioned off at greater than 5 times what I paid for when I first returned to Singapore in 2004.
Of course, now cannot use this method liao as Ah Khaw & Tharman, my handsome brothers just implemented the very SWEE measures.
However, yesternight, I got a new inspiration from a celestial dream......
Share or dun share leh ???
DUMBS GET DUMBER.
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 18:46
Step one of my new plan IS TO UNLOAD ALL MY LANDED. And I will tell all my billionaire students to do the same as you are seeing now in newspaper, many BIG landed are aunctioning off now.
BTW, one big developer is also selling their landed now if you are in the market, you will hear about this.
This is to create equity for the rest of the remaining investment assets, and to realise the profits at the same time.
Good Luck. Landed will drop more than 30% believe or not by May 2013 you can all tell liao la.
:tongue3:
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 18:56
Step 2 of my plan is to wait for Ah Khaw to remove the cooling measures. Even if need to wait 10 years, I will wait.
Because many land in Marina Bay not developed yet. That is the new goldmine.
Once cooling measures removed in 2020, I will use all the monies to HOOT all the projects in Marina Bay or CCR Singapore River old ones also can.
By then, dun say I selfish and never share hor....:tsk-tsk:
Step 2 of my plan is to wait for Ah Khaw to remove the cooling measures. Even if need to wait 10 years, I will wait.
Because many land in Marina Bay not developed yet. That is the new goldmine.
Once cooling measures removed in 2020, I will use all the monies to HOOT all the projects in Marina Bay or CCR Singapore River old ones also can.
By then, dun say I selfish and never share hor....:tsk-tsk:
sharing is caring. I cant wait for condo launches beside gardens by the bay.. machiam like one hyde park beside the big big park and the condos at grand central park. limitation edition hor.. die die muz collect
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 19:09
sharing is caring. I cant wait for condo launches beside gardens by the bay.. machiam like one hyde park beside the big big park and the condos at grand central park. limitation edition hor.. die die muz collect
thanks good brother dtrax. me cannot wait too :)
thanks good brother dtrax. me cannot wait too :)
i cant wait but also cant afford.. but i wun so evil lar.. pray for deep deep crash. Maybe once u hoot can let me stay for 2D1N upon TOP?
blackjack21trader
24-03-13, 19:18
i cant wait but also cant afford.. but i wun so evil lar.. pray for deep deep crash. Maybe once u hoot can let me stay for 2D1N upon TOP?
maybe good brother, maybe only LOL....anyway i think the most i can afford is a 2 bedder there :)
anyway, i share with good brothers and sisters here what is meant by the million dollar views:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/IMG_0714_zps8b0efda6.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/IMG_0774_zpsc99c9151.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/IMG_0775_zps37c89123.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/IMG_0784_zpsc0d59c0b.jpg
sharing is caring. I cant wait for condo launches beside gardens by the bay.. machiam like one hyde park beside the big big park and the condos at grand central park. limitation edition hor.. die die muz collectpotential for dengue hotspot number 1!
potential for dengue hotspot number 1!
I SCREAM ICE-CREAM!
I SCREAM ICE-CREAM!
You long time never Scream alr ! ...
Hahaha!!
DKSG
You long time never Scream alr ! ...
Hahaha!!
DKSG
ya muz learn to shout.. going reservist next thur liaox
Wah blackjack... very good insight on the methods you use to invest in property! please share more often if you can :D I want to invest in one asap
But im not certain of is, why you predict landed will drop?
Step one of my new plan IS TO UNLOAD ALL MY LANDED. And I will tell all my billionaire students to do the same as you are seeing now in newspaper, many BIG landed are aunctioning off now.
BTW, one big developer is also selling their landed now if you are in the market, you will hear about this.
This is to create equity for the rest of the remaining investment assets, and to realise the profits at the same time.
Good Luck. Landed will drop more than 30% believe or not by May 2013 you can all tell liao la.
:tongue3:
ya muz learn to shout.. going reservist next thur liaox
You must be damn young, or still Boyz to Men ?
Office Boy finished reservist before mid-30s.
Anyway, reservist is a good time to search for good properties.
DKSG
You must be damn young, or still Boyz to Men ?
Office Boy finished reservist before mid-30s.
Anyway, reservist is a good time to search for good properties.
DKSG
eh you mean, reservist is a gd time to surf condo sg? But cannot lar, muz grab fieldpack and protect the nation and our propertiesss.
My reservist started super early.. last cycle should end around 31
eh you mean, reservist is a gd time to surf condo sg? But cannot lar, muz grab fieldpack and protect the nation and our propertiesss.
My reservist started super early.. last cycle should end around 31
Thank you for protecting out properties.
*SALUTE*
I am impressed at your financial abilities at an age below 30!
Truly impressive!
DKSG
Thank you for protecting out properties.
*SALUTE*
I am impressed at your financial abilities at an age below 30!
Truly impressive!
DKSG
have to be born at the right time as well. Born wrong time, no money psf low no use. Got money high psf even worse.. coz scare dunno when will crash haha. Properties have to depend on future gen riaox..
Didn't realise that the ABSD refund upon selling off the property (7% for 1st property) is not applicable for singles!!! A single owner MUST sell first, before buying. If buy, then sell within 6 months, no refund. Alamak, not fair to genuine singles leh!! How come this is not made clear, how many know about this??
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 16:43
have to be born at the right time as well. Born wrong time, no money psf low no use. Got money high psf even worse.. coz scare dunno when will crash haha. Properties have to depend on future gen riaox..
I have no worry about my future when there are shrewd & knowledgeable young investors like you around here.
I am also very proud of you when you said that you are serving reservist faithfully. Just like me, although I was stationed overseas, I never keng like some CEOs. I always flew back to do my reservist ;)
In fact I finished my reservist in camps 5 years earlier than my keng king CEO cousin although he was enlisted 2 years earlier than me.:doh:
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 16:46
I have no worry about my future when there are shrewd & knowledgeable young investors like you around here.
I am also very proud of you when you said that you are serving reservist faithfully. Just like me, although I was stationed overseas, I never keng like some CEOs. I always flew back to do my reservist ;)
In fact I finished my reservist in camps 5 years earlier than my keng king CEO cousin although he was enlisted 2 years earlier than me.:doh:
some more my job is very important one. I am a storeman.
some more my job is very important one. I am a storeman.
..............................................:scared-5:
some more my job is very important one. I am a storeman.
:scared-5: :scared-5: :scared-5: :scared-5: :scared-5:
.................................................................
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 16:50
NB...see me no up isit ? Storeman also very important vocation ok. No me, how you all draw your bed sheets ?
NB.....:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
NB...see me no up isit ? Storeman also very important vocation ok. No me, how you all draw your bed sheets ?
NB.....:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
storeman is non combat vocation leh...you talk as if you are a General like that lor....:(
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 16:56
storeman is non combat vocation leh...you talk as if you are a General like that lor....:(
nobody in my family know I am a storeman. When I went reservist, I just told my wife my vocation very xiong and cannot say one and also cannot book out leh. hehehehehehehhehehehehehhehe
nobody in my family know I am a storeman. When I went reservist, I just told my wife my vocation very xiong and cannot say one and also cannot book out leh. hehehehehehehhehehehehehhehe
cannot book out meh... or dun want to book out so can cheong KTVs ?
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 16:58
cannot book out meh... or dun want to book out so can cheong KTVs ?
ANGELA YOU SIBEI BIG MOUTH LA :(
ANGELA YOU SIBEI BIG MOUTH LA :(
I always thought our CEo is an officer...now I know liao...he is just a storeman in army.
wahlaueh....kena con by him la.
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 17:02
GO BACK TO WORK LAH :( :(
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 21:25
wakaka i also storeman
........................................................
:scared-5:
.........................................................
wakaka i also storeman
Looks like Logistics people indeed do well after army!
Office Boy also from Logistics one, supply things to the frontline.
Learning how to manage supplies does train us to manage our portfolio of properties !
DKSG
blackjack21trader
25-03-13, 22:28
Looks like Logistics people indeed do well after army!
Office Boy also from Logistics one, supply things to the frontline.
Learning how to manage supplies does train us to manage our portfolio of properties !
DKSG
.............................................
:scared-5:
................................................
blackjack21trader
26-03-13, 08:34
Wah blackjack... very good insight on the methods you use to invest in property! please share more often if you can :D I want to invest in one asap
But im not certain of is, why you predict landed will drop?
indeed, you are a very smartboy to notice that I am the most handsome.
As to the real reason why I feel landed is over-rated is from my experience as a trader whether in business or stocks or properties or any products.
The landed is over-priced now. How so?
Let your most handsome UNCLE enlighten you:
1) young man got play stocks? you got see those carrying durians at the high prices of a stock or not? and for how many years they have to carry? 10 ? 15 ? 20 ? if the company still around....that is.
2) Built-up I do not think is reflected in the title deeds of landed. Only the land area. If so is the case, in case of any dispute, you cry out to who leh ?
3) refer to pt above. since now agents like to use psf build up for landed instead of the psf land area as reflected in the title. as such, the landed price now is really subjective. and not truly indicative of market forces
4) many NEW landed are built to very high ratio. Meaning a 900sqft terrace and build to around 2000 sqft and instead of using the land psf, property agents sell you the floor psf. Why I say agent sell is because the landed title deed do not reflect the floor psf but the landed psf. therefore in event of legal dispute, owner sure deny responsibity and push to the agents one.
THEREFORE,in my view, landed now is overpriced since it is selling the floor psf without any facillities or security features as found in a condo floor psf.
That is all I can tell you, believe or not is up to you. You only need one siaolang to sell way below market price to initiate the landed crash.
But condo and apartments and HDBs will still be healthy and climb and climb non stop until after I inside coffin aslo climb la.
Good Luck.
for the one under husband name, wife is not worried due to women's charter.
for the other one, i am not sure. is husband protected? mitigate with a will?
I thought husband and wife each owns 50% of the matrimonial assets under the law. No? If that is the case, why bother under whose name?
I thought husband and wife each owns 50% of the matrimonial assets under the law. No? If that is the case, why bother under whose name?
not really. This is not Taiwan. ;)
Thanks for your opinion and sharing of thoughts, blackjack..
I personally feel that landed is something of limited edition but what you say makes sense as well. Just probably the price of landed ppty have already reached a peak
indeed, you are a very smartboy to notice that I am the most handsome.
As to the real reason why I feel landed is over-rated is from my experience as a trader whether in business or stocks or properties or any products.
The landed is over-priced now. How so?
Let your most handsome UNCLE enlighten you:
1) young man got play stocks? you got see those carrying durians at the high prices of a stock or not? and for how many years they have to carry? 10 ? 15 ? 20 ? if the company still around....that is.
2) Built-up I do not think is reflected in the title deeds of landed. Only the land area. If so is the case, in case of any dispute, you cry out to who leh ?
3) refer to pt above. since now agents like to use psf build up for landed instead of the psf land area as reflected in the title. as such, the landed price now is really subjective. and not truly indicative of market forces
4) many NEW landed are built to very high ratio. Meaning a 900sqft terrace and build to around 2000 sqft and instead of using the land psf, property agents sell you the floor psf. Why I say agent sell is because the landed title deed do not reflect the floor psf but the landed psf. therefore in event of legal dispute, owner sure deny responsibity and push to the agents one.
THEREFORE,in my view, landed now is overpriced since it is selling the floor psf without any facillities or security features as found in a condo floor psf.
That is all I can tell you, believe or not is up to you. You only need one siaolang to sell way below market price to initiate the landed crash.
But condo and apartments and HDBs will still be healthy and climb and climb non stop until after I inside coffin aslo climb la.
Good Luck.
3) refer to pt above. since now agents like to use psf build up for landed instead of the psf land area as reflected in the title. as such, the landed price now is really subjective. and not truly indicative of market forces
4) many NEW landed are built to very high ratio. Meaning a 900sqft terrace and build to around 2000 sqft and instead of using the land psf, property agents sell you the floor psf. Why I say agent sell is because the landed title deed do not reflect the floor psf but the landed psf. therefore in event of legal dispute, owner sure deny responsibity and push to the agents one.
THEREFORE,in my view, landed now is overpriced since it is selling the floor psf without any facillities or security features as found in a condo floor psf.
That is all I can tell you, believe or not is up to you. You only need one siaolang to sell way below market price to initiate the landed crash.
But condo and apartments and HDBs will still be healthy and climb and climb non stop until after I inside coffin aslo climb la.
Good Luck.Brother BJ, not only you are handsome, you are very smart too!
I totally agree with you on this, esp those landed that has been torn down and rebuilt or has done A&A. Why I agree? I have walked around observing, all have EXCEEDED their original plot ratio! But plot ratio doesnt have restriction on landed, just the number of stories is 3+attic.
E.g. if a land is 1000 sqft.
Assuming the 1st floor builtin is 700 sqft, and is 3 storeies + Attic, the total built in will be based on 4 LEVEL (yes attic counted as 1 level)! 2800 sqft. Plot ratio is 2.8!! :banghead: Most landed are 1.4 plot ratio.
If you were to buy based on the built-in, of 2800 sqft, good luck! Developer wont pay you even that price as they have no room to play with! worse still, the plot ratio has EXCEEDED and they have to REDUCE the built-in.:scared-3:
Bro BJ, I am not sure if only a handful of us can see this fact. :47:
blackjack21trader
28-03-13, 03:49
.....
Bro BJ, I am not sure if only a handful of us can see this fact. :47:
yes indeed, bro leesg123, that is my exact worry! MANY NAIVE buyers who are property agents themselves and have no clue at all . ( Many professionals have spouses who are full or part time property agents )
I hope the recent CM stopped them in their tracks. I also hope the Land Office would send some men down to check the billboards of those doing renovation works on landed.
I see quite a number never put owner/developer names. I hope they are updating their boards and not trying to be funny hor.
blackjack21trader
28-03-13, 03:50
Thanks for your opinion and sharing of thoughts, blackjack..
I personally feel that landed is something of limited edition but what you say makes sense as well. Just probably the price of landed ppty have already reached a peak
my pleasure, good brother :) i will try to share as much of what I know as possible from my humble experience.
Brother BJ, not only you are handsome, you are very smart too!
I totally agree with you on this, esp those landed that has been torn down and rebuilt or has done A&A. Why I agree? I have walked around observing, all have EXCEEDED their original plot ratio! But plot ratio doesnt have restriction on landed, just the number of stories is 3+attic.
E.g. if a land is 1000 sqft.
Assuming the 1st floor builtin is 700 sqft, and is 3 storeies + Attic, the total built in will be based on 4 LEVEL (yes attic counted as 1 level)! 2800 sqft. Plot ratio is 2.8!! :banghead: Most landed are 1.4 plot ratio.
If you were to buy based on the built-in, of 2800 sqft, good luck! Developer wont pay you even that price as they have no room to play with! worse still, the plot ratio has EXCEEDED and they have to REDUCE the built-in.:scared-3:
Bro BJ, I am not sure if only a handful of us can see this fact. :47:
thanks Lee.
but why u say "plot ratio doesnt have restriction on landed, just the number of stories is 3+attic." and "the plot ratio has EXCEEDED and they have to REDUCE the built-in." ??
if plot ratio doesnt matter for landed then why must reduce the built-in later if exceeded?
blackjack21trader
28-03-13, 11:52
yes indeed, bro leesg123, that is my exact worry! MANY NAIVE buyers who are property agents themselves and have no clue at all . ( Many professionals have spouses who are full or part time property agents )
I hope the recent CM stopped them in their tracks. I also hope the Land Office would send some men down to check the billboards of those doing renovation works on landed.
I see quite a number never put owner/developer names. I hope they are updating their boards and not trying to be funny hor.
Maybe brothers from MAS or URA could ask the developers of such small land size landed to declare the costs of construction. Then it will be very transparent liao, how much you guys are overpaying if at all.
Strata or cluster houses is ok don't need to declare because the strata title reflected the floor psf and number of share on the whole project. So these developers can continue to sell higher.
:mad:
Maybe brothers from MAS or URA could ask the developers of such small land size landed to declare the costs of construction. Then it will be very transparent liao, how much you guys are overpaying if at all.
Strata or cluster houses is ok don't need to declare because the strata title reflected the floor psf and number of share on the whole project. So these developers can continue to sell higher.
:mad:
Singapore government should pay my Mentor consultancy fees of $1million a year. Thats money better spent than the salary of some 20something MP!
DKSG
blackjack21trader
28-03-13, 16:17
Singapore government should pay my Mentor consultancy fees of $1million a year. Thats money better spent than the salary of some 20something MP!
DKSG
Wahlaueh.....Kum Sia la, brother DKSG. U say like that I feel very proud like ego got inflated big big Liao Leh....Thanks a million la :)
thanks Lee.
but why u say "plot ratio doesnt have restriction on landed, just the number of stories is 3+attic." and "the plot ratio has EXCEEDED and they have to REDUCE the built-in." ??
if plot ratio doesnt matter for landed then why must reduce the built-in later if exceeded?
developer will buy landed for development only when the existing plot ratio is below ita approved plot ratio.
When they rebuild, don't they have to submit plans for approval and one of the conditions for approval is that they have not exceeded the plot ratio?
Unless of cos they quietly do and don't go for any approval. Good luck to those fellas. Some report only you have to make major alterations potentially.
When they rebuild, don't they have to submit plans for approval and one of the conditions for approval is that they have not exceeded the plot ratio?
Unless of cos they quietly do and don't go for any approval. Good luck to those fellas. Some report only you have to make major alterations potentially.for LANDED category, the governing rule is the number of storey instead of plot ratio. They can go up to 3 storey plus attic, even if exceed plot ratio.
For strata title, the governing rule is the plot ratio first, then the height limit.
Therefore, those landed properties that are 3 stories or 3.5 stories, sorry, developer will not consider at all for enbloc. So their only resale mkt are those seeking landed housing and it will forever stuck and no potential for enbloc at all (even if plot ratio is revised upwards, as they have grossly exceeded their original plot ratio). Which is why our wise and handsome BJ21 brother has been warning us about.
reason for decoupling : higher LTV for the second property and no ABSD
The title must be 50-50% owned, so need to change from joint tenancy to tenancy in common.
Need to have a valuation, preferable : big name, a table top valuation will do. Cost : $1,000.
It can be done by way of gift or sell.
By way of gift : the money from CPF must pay back, and so the bank loan if you want 80% LTV for the second property. But, if the transferor becomes bankrupt within 7 years of the gift, OA will take back his 50% share.
By way of sell : CPF of the transferor must pay back.
Some lawyers insist it must be a true sale, and involve actual cash transfer from the transferor to the transferee.
For bank loan : the transferee must take up the entire sum of the bank loan, if not the transferor will still remind as joint borrower.
Legal fee : if no CPF and bank loan involved : $5,000.
If there is CPF and bank loan : $6-7000.
It is not advisable to set up a deed of trust, as in the event of investigation, it will be seen as tax evasion.
reason for decoupling : higher LTV for the second property and no ABSD
The title must be 50-50% owned, so need to change from joint tenancy to tenancy in common.
Need to have a valuation, preferable : big name, a table top valuation will do. Cost : $1,000.
It can be done by way of gift or sell.
By way of gift : the money from CPF must pay back, and so the bank loan if you want 80% LTV for the second property. But, if the transferor becomes bankrupt within 7 years of the gift, OA will take back his 50% share.
By way of sell : CPF of the transferor must pay back.
Some lawyers insist it must be a true sale, and involve actual cash transfer from the transferor to the transferee.
For bank loan : the transferee must take up the entire sum of the bank loan, if not the transferor will still remind as joint borrower.
Legal fee : if no CPF and bank loan involved : $5,000.
If there is CPF and bank loan : $6-7000.
It is not advisable to set up a deed of trust, as in the event of investigation, it will be seen as tax evasion.
this is most helpful!
this is most helpful!
yes inddrd, many thanks. that really iron out the remaining questions i have in my mind.
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 20:45
yes inddrd, many thanks. that really iron out the remaining questions i have in my mind.
paiseh, it is "indeed" . my fingers too big.
Do not try to test the authority. Have seen houses partially demolished or pay hefty fines.
When they rebuild, don't they have to submit plans for approval and one of the conditions for approval is that they have not exceeded the plot ratio?
Unless of cos they quietly do and don't go for any approval. Good luck to those fellas. Some report only you have to make major alterations potentially.
Forgot to add :stamp duty payable by transferee 50% x 3% -$5400.
It is better to have the property decoupled first before buying.
In paper, you can claim back the AbSD if it is done within 6 months, but i am not too sure of the complexity of the claim from the Govt
Forgot to add :stamp duty payable by transferee 50% x 3% -$5400.
It is better to have the property decoupled first before buying.
In paper, you can claim back the AbSD if it is done within 6 months, but i am not too sure of the complexity of the claim from the Govt
Property bought under single named cannot claim back ABSD even sell the 1st property after 6mth upon TOP.
I had confirmed with both my lawyer and stamp duties office.
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 22:54
Property bought under single named cannot claim back ABSD even sell the 1st property after 6mth upon TOP.
I had confirmed with both my lawyer and stamp duties office.
THANKS BROTHER LEMONLAW! This info u gave is also very important and precious. It will tell those that wish to decouple for no reason to think thrice.
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 22:56
Do not try to test the authority. Have seen houses partially demolished or pay hefty fines.
that is very wise advice, good brother DC33_2008. i have seen a few like that too.
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 22:57
Forgot to add :stamp duty payable by transferee 50% x 3% -$5400.
It is better to have the property decoupled first before buying.
In paper, you can claim back the AbSD if it is done within 6 months, but i am not too sure of the complexity of the claim from the Govt
bro Laguna, u r very considerate and kind to take the trouble to add on to your earlier info. Thanks.
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 22:59
AH KHAW ARH....AH THARMAN AH..... Thank you. I am sure many property owners will appreciate ur consideration and hardwork in future :)
blackjack21trader
30-03-13, 23:04
in consideration of info provided by kind brothers Laguna, DC33_2008 and LemonLaw. I hope you guys think carefully before trying to decouple especially for no good reason.
The recent measures by AH Khaw and Ah Thatman proved one very important feature of our government : that if there is a will, they will have the way.
just dun try to be funny lor. remember to put the proper and Full particulars on your landed billboard when doing construction works.
good luck.
Just to add, I don't think one needs to complete the decoupling before buying the next unit, in order to avoid paying ABSD upfront. Perhaps one just need to exercise the option (for husband selling to wife or vice versa), or if option is not used, just need to sign on sale and purchase agreement (for husband selling to wife or vice versa), before the exercise of the option of his/her next purchase, in order to avoid paying ABSD.
Again, please confirm with lawyer to be sure.
Forgot to add :stamp duty payable by transferee 50% x 3% -$5400.
It is better to have the property decoupled first before buying.
In paper, you can claim back the AbSD if it is done within 6 months, but i am not too sure of the complexity of the claim from the Govt
Just to add, I don't think one needs to complete the decoupling before buying the next unit, in order to avoid paying ABSD upfront. Perhaps one just need to exercise the option (for husband selling to wife or vice versa), or if option is not used, just need to sign on sale and purchase agreement (for husband selling to wife or vice versa), before the exercise of the option of his/her next purchase, in order to avoid paying ABSD.
Again, please confirm with lawyer to be sure.
Yes, you are right.
But very rush as some valuers take more than two weeks to give you the valuation.
Yes, you are right.
But very rush as some valuers take more than two weeks to give you the valuation.
Valuation may not be necessary unless the govt feels that the price used for decoupling is way off the market. In the case govt demands a valuation, i'm not sure whether it needs to be done before the exercise of the option (or the signing of the S&P), too much into details already...
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