View Full Version : 18 of August
SINGAPORE: Healthcare, education, and housing -- these are the top three concerns that emerged from the Our Singapore Conversation (OSC), and they will be taken up "substantively" by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on August 18
Guess will our PM said:
- HDB back to basic? No more EC I guess. That the reason govn delay the launch of EC?
- any more??:scared-2:
SINGAPORE: Healthcare, education, and housing -- these are the top three concerns that emerged from the Our Singapore Conversation (OSC), and they will be taken up "substantively" by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on August 18
Guess will our PM said:
- HDB back to basic? No more EC I guess. That the reason govn delay the launch of EC?
- any more??:scared-2:
I am guessing there will be very little positive news for property as government will focus on narrowing gaps between the haves and have not.
I am guess that they will touch on COE.
Future MRT stations are not build for fun one and not to house ghosts also.
Jurong site and Defu development are not build for ghosts also.
Tengah and other new towns coming up.
BE PREPARE FOR POPULATION INCREASE.
rymccondo77
10-08-13, 23:14
SINGAPORE: Healthcare, education, and housing -- these are the top three concerns that emerged from the Our Singapore Conversation (OSC), and they will be taken up "substantively" by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on August 18
Guess will our PM said:
- HDB back to basic? No more EC I guess. That the reason govn delay the launch of EC?
- any more??:scared-2:
Think the govt may make revisions to the EC scheme (e.g. remove the subsidies) but don' think they will stop it.
if hdb back to basic, who want to buy? I think better ask garmen to rent out better...
The could possible be cooling measures for HDB for sure because PAP direction for this year is about reaching out to those left behind, while trying to pull back on those who have gone too far ahead.
Summary of what PM will be tackling.
Those earning 7k and above, dont bother.
http://www.todayonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/photo_gallery_image/public/photos/43_images/singapore_conversation_2.jpg
I tink he will touch on the developmt of the various new towns.
usually will not cover bad news so I dun tink he will mention curbs on ECs nhdb.
i think he will give a lot of goodies to those below certain income.
that's it...
Income pegged to low income.
I tink can't rent out hdb as you like, only old folks without income can rent out!!! Tat will be cool!
Proplive123
11-08-13, 13:06
I think more goodies for median income family.
Did you see how the china Chinese exploits the sublet rules which makes $ by letting out to 22 people in a 4-room flat for a total of $5500/mth. :doh:
I tink can't rent out hdb as you like, only old folks without income can rent out!!! Tat will be cool!
Did you see how the china Chinese exploits the sublet rules which makes $ by letting out to 22 people in a 4-room flat for a total of $5500/mth. :doh:
Locals also like tat, as long people can make $, they will do it.....tats why people here v rich, many abuse the hdb lor ......I one of the stupid one rent out condo and stay in hdb ......
Locals also like tat, as long people can make $, they will do it.....tats why people here v rich, many abuse the hdb lor ......I one of the stupid one rent out condo and stay in hdb ......
I also live in hdb, rent out condo... Why is it consider as stupid :confused:
Things are getting out of hands. Wonder what is hdb doing? I know some people also partition out condos and rent out to multi-tenants. :doh:
Locals also like tat, as long people can make $, they will do it.....tats why people here v rich, many abuse the hdb lor ......I one of the stupid one rent out condo and stay in hdb ......
I also live in hdb, rent out condo... Why is it consider as stupid :confused:
Who got condo dont want stay, go stay hdb......only under circumstances then no choice.....long story, but nver regret lah, ....the condo rental help me to accumulate two more units, see who want to rent lor next time....
Amber Woods
11-08-13, 18:18
The big push is for HDB flats to back to basic. Hence, the likely change is that effective 19 Aug 2013, anyone who purchase a HDB flat be it new or resale must stay in the HDB flat. They can invest in private properties after the MOP period, however, they must continue to stay in their HDB flats. They can rent out rooms but not the whole flat.
Private property owners can buy new or resale HDB flats but they must stay in their HDB flats.
This policy change will ensure that prices of HDB flats remain affordable by not allowing people to trade their HDB flats for huge profits since the rental of HDB flats is not longer allowed.
With people now having to stay in their HDB flats, those HDB flat owners who also own or invested in private properties will now have to rent out their private properties instead of their HDB flats. Hence, the number of rented flats be it HDB or private should not be affected unless people choose to leave their HDB flats empty and continue to stay in their private flats.
This policy change will affect those who purchase private flats and hoping to rent out their HDB flats. However, this same group of people will now have to rent out their private flats instead. So the impact if any is minimal. The impact on the rental market is also minimal. Rental for private flats will also be moderated since more private flats are now in the market with the same number of rental HDB flats taken out of the market.
I dun think govn will allow private to own HDB again. They hv announced that this is a permanent rule n will not be reversed. :tsk-tsk:
phantom_opera
11-08-13, 18:40
unlikely anything that is perceived to be CM
60LH option for 3r hdb
Amber Woods
11-08-13, 18:46
I dun think govn will allow private to own HDB again. They hv announced that this is a permanent rule n will not be reversed. :tsk-tsk:
The unfairness now is that HDB flat owners can buy private flats after the MOP. Unless this unfairness is addressed, the policy may reverse but with private property owners now having to stay in their HDB flats if they own both.
unlikely anything that is perceived to be CM
60LH option for 3r hdb
I think so too in order to bring HDB 3r price down 30%. but I hope is 70LH.
The unfairness now is that HDB flat owners can buy private flats after the MOP. Unless this unfairness is addressed, the policy may reverse but with private property owners now having to stay in their HDB flats if they own both.
it is not about "unfairness" which is very vague.
I think the main problem of restricting private property owners from buying HDB comes from the fact that you allow HDB owners to buy private.
Having such a lopsided policy really pushed HDB prices up by a lot in the recent years since most HDB owners will now no longer sell their HDB when they upgrade to private properties....
That is just plain stupid as the government was trying to moderate resale prices but ended up doing the exact opposite.
To me it is a policy mistake, and an obvious one. Now is whether they are going to fix it.
The unfairness now is that HDB fat owners can buy private flats after the MOP. Unless this unfairness is addressed, the policy may reverse but with private property owners now having to stay in their HDB flats if they own both.
I know that too. But I think this is our citizen privilege to own HDB n follow by private if we can affort. We hv to pay a heavy stamp duties in order to hv both. :tongue3:
Amber Woods
11-08-13, 19:15
I know that too. But I think this is our citizen privilege to own HDB n follow by private if we can affort. We hv to pay a heavy stamp duties in order to hv both. :tongue3:
Agree that every citizen should be allowed to buy HDB flat and live in it. If HDB flat owners want to upgrade and LIVE in private flats, there should not be any restriction as long as they sell off their HDB flats so as not to deprive others from owning one. However, if HDB flat owners want to invest in private properties, they must continue to live in their HDB flats and rent out their private properties instead.
If only MOE use this book for all the school.
http://www.ccsales.com/the_richest_man_in_babylon.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg0j3CK6Gh4
SINGAPORE: Healthcare, education, and housing -- these are the top three concerns that emerged from the Our Singapore Conversation (OSC), and they will be taken up "substantively" by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on August 18
Guess will our PM said:
- HDB back to basic? No more EC I guess. That the reason govn delay the launch of EC?
- any more??:scared-2:
My take is
1) EC program will expand so that new GLS will have 80% EC, and 20% Private Condo.
2) EC will not be upgraded to "condo" status after 10years, so that resale EC will solely for Singaporeans and PRs even after 10 years of TOP. By doing so, foreigners will not compete with Singaporeans/PRs for ECs, hence the widening EC pool will remain more in tune with Singaporeans salary, rather than foreigners wallet.
1) & 2) will keep the Singaporean middle class happy so that more of them can aspire to "condo-style living" lifestyle.
3) A "exit tax" is levied on PRs who sold their HDBs and gave their PR-ship subsequently.
4) To make HDB more like "home", less "asset", only retirees can fully rent out their whole HDBs (i.e. treat it as asset to support their retirement), while the rest of HDB-owners have to stay in HDB (i.e. treat it like a home), and cannot sublet like an asset.
If govt will to stop HDB rental, many fellow singaporeans who are renting out their HDB to pay for their PC will be affected. Believe govt will take that into considerations before any drastic announcement as people livelihood at stake here hence they have not been doing anything much all this while even blatantly know that many are waiting to apply for their whole HDB renting out once their PC is ready.
Let's see if anything of such will be announced, but many of my agent friends mentioned unlikely the govt will stop HDB whole unit rental. :D
walkthetiger
12-08-13, 00:33
My take is
1) EC program will expand so that new GLS will have 80% EC, and 20% Private Condo.
2) EC will not be upgraded to "condo" status after 10years, so that resale EC will solely for Singaporeans and PRs even after 10 years of TOP. By doing so, foreigners will not compete with Singaporeans/PRs for ECs, hence the widening EC pool will remain more in tune with Singaporeans salary, rather than foreigners wallet.
1) & 2) will keep the Singaporean middle class happy so that more of them can aspire to "condo-style living" lifestyle.
.
Same view, 1)EC program will be expand aggresively, 2)EC will not be upgraded to "condo" status for more years.
Public housing will become just a home, going back to basis, not an asset anymore. Something you will never see in country like HK..
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 01:31
If govt will to stop HDB rental, many fellow singaporeans who are renting out their HDB to pay for their PC will be affected. Believe govt will take that into considerations before any drastic announcement as people livelihood at stake here hence they have not been doing anything much all this while even blatantly know that many are waiting to apply for their whole HDB renting out once their PC is ready.
Let's see if anything of such will be announced, but many of my agent friends mentioned unlikely the govt will stop HDB whole unit rental. :D
People in this group can always rent out their private flats and continue to live in their HDB flats. They probably can get higher rental than renting out their HDB flats. The policy change if any is exactly to stop this group of people who are depriving the more needy a more affordable HDB flat.
People in this group can always rent out their private flats and continue to live in their HDB flats. They probably can get higher rental than renting out their HDB flats. The policy change if any is exactly to stop this group of people who are depriving the more needy a more affordable HDB flat.
The more needy will need to buy direct from HDB... They typically don't have the means to buy resale leh??.
:confused:
People in this group can always rent out their private flats and continue to live in their HDB flats. They probably can get higher rental than renting out their HDB flats. The policy change if any is exactly to stop this group of people who are depriving the more needy a more affordable HDB flat.
with the tens of thousands of HDB flats being built do you seriously think there will be a shortage in next few years current shortage is the result of you know what:cool:
The more needy will need to buy direct from HDB... They typically don't have the means to buy resale leh??.
:confused:
agree look at recent 2rm bto application..like flies flocking to s#$%:D
get ready to welcome HReit. hdb reit
master plan 2013 and MRT (ERL... etc.)?
People in this group can always rent out their private flats and continue to live in their HDB flats. They probably can get higher rental than renting out their HDB flats. The policy change if any is exactly to stop this group of people who are depriving the more needy a more affordable HDB flat.
With recent news of COV drop, HDB resales stabilising etc, I cannot help but think govt is more for the idea of tampering the HDB resales price from running ahead with the bumper supply of BTO, EC then the handful of owners that keeping their HDB flat as an asset to rent out.
Why should govt further rock the boat when they already have a handle to the HDB resales price problem, at least for now?
It seems to me our current govt is on one hand helping the lower income and new couples by focusing on new BTO flats affordability and able to get their keys soonest possible. On the other hand, they will continue to help those middle class Singaporean families to achieve their aspiration (a private condo liefestyle) with the help of their current HDB flat able to rent out.
Therefore, as long as those need a flat gets one, and those can afford another private condo can get theirs. why rock the boat:D
Did you see how the china Chinese exploits the sublet rules which makes $ by letting out to 22 people in a 4-room flat for a total of $5500/mth. :doh:
Singaporean also do that what. some largy best. private landed or hdb also partition to house 3 floors and house many people. only when kana caught then they kpkb.
The big push is for HDB flats to back to basic. Hence, the likely change is that effective 19 Aug 2013, anyone who purchase a HDB flat be it new or resale must stay in the HDB flat. They can invest in private properties after the MOP period, however, they must continue to stay in their HDB flats. They can rent out rooms but not the whole flat.
Private property owners can buy new or resale HDB flats but they must stay in their HDB flats.
This policy change will ensure that prices of HDB flats remain affordable by not allowing people to trade their HDB flats for huge profits since the rental of HDB flats is not longer allowed.
With people now having to stay in their HDB flats, those HDB flat owners who also own or invested in private properties will now have to rent out their private properties instead of their HDB flats. Hence, the number of rented flats be it HDB or private should not be affected unless people choose to leave their HDB flats empty and continue to stay in their private flats.
This policy change will affect those who purchase private flats and hoping to rent out their HDB flats. However, this same group of people will now have to rent out their private flats instead. So the impact if any is minimal. The impact on the rental market is also minimal. Rental for private flats will also be moderated since more private flats are now in the market with the same number of rental HDB flats taken out of the market.
So by doing so marginalized the older generation who toll to build the nation? If they need to retire how?
The unfairness now is that HDB flat owners can buy private flats after the MOP. Unless this unfairness is addressed, the policy may reverse but with private property owners now having to stay in their HDB flats if they own both.
Why unfair? Or it just plain jealousy of the have n have not? Work on it I say.
Singaporean also do that what. some largy best. private landed or hdb also partition to house 3 floors and house many people. only when kana caught then they kpkb.
our forum also got someone like that:D:D:D
So by doing so marginalized the older generation who toll to build the nation? If they need to retire how?
They can only blame themselves if they dont have enough to retire. This follows govt logic.
govt going to chut patter soon ... ai lai liao ... take cover !
stay tune for 18 aug?
By Charissa Yong
MORE Housing Board flat owners have been renting out their units in recent months - a phenomenon attributed to upgraders who want to keep their flats even as they move on to private property.
HDB figures last month showed a 6 per cent rise in subletting transactions between the first and second quarters of this year, from 7,410 cases to 7,891.
The number of transactions in the second quarter was also about 15 per cent higher than the 6,900 cases in the same period last year.
More flats were also rented out last month - 1,760 according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) estimates, up 27 per cent from 10 months ago.
Industry watchers said this is because there are more upgraders who own private property and want to rent out their HDB units for additional income.
Mr Chris Koh, director of property firm Chris International, traces this to a rule introduced three years ago, which mandates that private property owners must sell their existing property if they buy an HDB resale flat.
That is why some HDB owners with private property prefer not to sell their flats, he said. They cannot buy a resale flat once their HDB unit is sold while still holding on to private property.
HDB owners who have lived in their flat for the minimum occupation period are allowed to purchase private property and hold on to both at the same time.
The move towards renting out HDB flats is also fuelled by the large number of private units that are being completed this year - especially shoebox units, said R'ST Research director Ong Kah Seng.
"Many singles who have been staying with their parents in HDB flats have moved into the shoebox apartment they bought," he said. "The room they vacated can be rented out."
Entire flats are also freed up when aged parents move into a married child's home, he added.
One such person is semi- retired cashier Ang Ling Buang, 73, who began renting out his five-room flat in Hougang to an Indonesian family in March.
Mr Ang now lives with his wife in his son's Punggol flat, where he helps to take care of his grandson. He gets $2,600 in rent monthly.
For now, the increased supply has not had an impact on monthly median rent prices, which have stayed at $2,400 over the past year, SRX data showed.
Demand for HDB rentals is still robust because public flats are cheaper to rent than private ones of similar sizes.
This is especially appealing to foreigners, said ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim, as their rental budgets are often part of their salary packages.
"So to save money, more foreign employees are renting from the HDB market," he said.
Moreover, tenants sharing a room can save even more. "The rooms in many old HDB flats are very spacious, suitable for tenants to share," said Mr Ong.
But even with the increased supply of flats for rent, some landlords are still picky about tenants.
Mr Koh said most Singaporean flat owners prefer renting out to "good profile tenants" like couples with children. But those looking to rent in areas like Woodlands, Sembawang and Marsiling are mainly workers who want to share a flat or room.
"I've heard from agents on the ground that it now takes two months to rent out HDB flats that would have previously been rented out in two weeks," he said.
[email protected]
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 11:14
I am just trying to say what this reporter reported. The government needs to address this problem if HDB is going back to basic.
By Charissa Yong
MORE Housing Board flat owners have been renting out their units in recent months - a phenomenon attributed to upgraders who want to keep their flats even as they move on to private property.
HDB figures last month showed a 6 per cent rise in subletting transactions between the first and second quarters of this year, from 7,410 cases to 7,891.
The number of transactions in the second quarter was also about 15 per cent higher than the 6,900 cases in the same period last year.
More flats were also rented out last month - 1,760 according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) estimates, up 27 per cent from 10 months ago.
Industry watchers said this is because there are more upgraders who own private property and want to rent out their HDB units for additional income.
Mr Chris Koh, director of property firm Chris International, traces this to a rule introduced three years ago, which mandates that private property owners must sell their existing property if they buy an HDB resale flat.
That is why some HDB owners with private property prefer not to sell their flats, he said. They cannot buy a resale flat once their HDB unit is sold while still holding on to private property.
HDB owners who have lived in their flat for the minimum occupation period are allowed to purchase private property and hold on to both at the same time.
The move towards renting out HDB flats is also fuelled by the large number of private units that are being completed this year - especially shoebox units, said R'ST Research director Ong Kah Seng.
"Many singles who have been staying with their parents in HDB flats have moved into the shoebox apartment they bought," he said. "The room they vacated can be rented out."
Entire flats are also freed up when aged parents move into a married child's home, he added.
One such person is semi- retired cashier Ang Ling Buang, 73, who began renting out his five-room flat in Hougang to an Indonesian family in March.
Mr Ang now lives with his wife in his son's Punggol flat, where he helps to take care of his grandson. He gets $2,600 in rent monthly.
For now, the increased supply has not had an impact on monthly median rent prices, which have stayed at $2,400 over the past year, SRX data showed.
Demand for HDB rentals is still robust because public flats are cheaper to rent than private ones of similar sizes.
This is especially appealing to foreigners, said ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim, as their rental budgets are often part of their salary packages.
"So to save money, more foreign employees are renting from the HDB market," he said.
Moreover, tenants sharing a room can save even more. "The rooms in many old HDB flats are very spacious, suitable for tenants to share," said Mr Ong.
But even with the increased supply of flats for rent, some landlords are still picky about tenants.
Mr Koh said most Singaporean flat owners prefer renting out to "good profile tenants" like couples with children. But those looking to rent in areas like Woodlands, Sembawang and Marsiling are mainly workers who want to share a flat or room.
"I've heard from agents on the ground that it now takes two months to rent out HDB flats that would have previously been rented out in two weeks," he said.
[email protected]
Most Singaporeans retirement funds are stuck in the HDB, if they are unable to rent it out to generate passive income for retirement, many people will have to live on the street begging for meals.
There is no need to any drastic measures because when interest rate rises, property prices across all segment will come down.
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 11:36
Most Singaporeans retirement funds are stuck in the HDB, if they are unable to rent it out to generate passive income for retirement, many people will have to live on the street begging for meals.
There is no need to any drastic measures because when interest rate rises, property prices across all segment will come down.
If you may recall that renting out the entire HDB flat was only allowed two to three years ago. Prior to that only rooms were allow to be rented out. Nobody then needs to beg in the street. We need to look at things in proper perspective in order to identify the real problem.
All these discussions in forum talk cock only. Wait till 18 aug on tv is better than listening to rumours.
If you may recall that renting out the entire HDB flat was only allowed two to three years ago. Prior to that only rooms were allow to be rented out. Nobody then needs to beg in the street. We need to look at things in proper perspective in order to identify the real problem.
Allowing people to rent out HDB flats while staying in a PC is robbing the country of our assets and income!
Once people can afford or choose to stay in a PC, we should cut off the amblical cord and not allow them to profit from renting HDB flats.
Government should impose a tax on HDB rentals for those staying in PC. Something in the range of 45% of gross rental income. This is because HDB flats are to be viewed as a home rather than an asset. We build HDB flats on the premise that we want everyone to have a place call home. So that no one is left out and everyone is properly housed. NOT to let people profit from it at the expense of others. 45% is not too heavy a tax because most HDB loans are quite paid up already by the time people move to PC. In fact, at 45% tax, owners will still be able to make a profit!
If there is a party who can rent out HDB flats, it should be the government, as profit goes back to the country to lower our taxes or improve other aspects like healthcare.
DKSG
A bit of history. Allowing whole HDB flats to be sublet came about not too long ago & during mah bow tan's time.
Before 2003, HDB flat owners were not allowed to do so unless they were working abroad.
In 2003 the govt allowed owners to sublet entire flats after 10 yrs (MOP) if they have paid up the loan, and 15 yrs if they have not.
From 2005 the MOP was reduced to 10 yrs for those with outstanding HDB loan, and 5 yrs for all others.
In 2007 the rules were further loosened & MOP reduced to 5 yrs for subsidised flats (bought direct from HDB or from the open market with CPF Housing Grant), and 3 yrs for non-subsidised flats (bought from the open market without a CPF Housing Grant).
By 2009, MOP for non-subsidised flats was 2.5 yrs and just 1 yr for owners who did not take HDB loan.
Despite tightening of MOP back to 5yrs in Aug 2010, in just 7 yrs since the first relaxation of rules, HDB witnessed the unprecedented ballooning of prices to record high.
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 12:23
Allowing people to rent out HDB flats while staying in a PC is robbing the country of our assets and income!
Once people can afford or choose to stay in a PC, we should cut off the amblical cord and not allow them to profit from renting HDB flats.
Government should impose a tax on HDB rentals for those staying in PC. Something in the range of 45% of gross rental income. This is because HDB flats are to be viewed as a home rather than an asset. We build HDB flats on the premise that we want everyone to have a place call home. So that no one is left out and everyone is properly housed. NOT to let people profit from it at the expense of others. 45% is not too heavy a tax because most HDB loans are quite paid up already by the time people move to PC. In fact, at 45% tax, owners will still be able to make a profit!
If there is a party who can rent out HDB flats, it should be the government, as profit goes back to the country to lower our taxes or improve other aspects like healthcare.
DKSG
Absolutely!
Ms Chua Mui Hoong (senior ST reporter) had suggested tax on HDB rental income some months ago.
Since HDB has always maintained that renting of entire HDB flat needs the board approval; it means to say that it is not permanent or given. Hence to revert back to its previous policy of not allowing rental of whole flat and the need to live in HDB flat (if one owns one) is not at all drastic. It is just going back to "basic".
If you may recall that renting out the entire HDB flat was only allowed two to three years ago. Prior to that only rooms were allow to be rented out. Nobody then needs to beg in the street. We need to look at things in proper perspective in order to identify the real problem.
Hmm.... finally news are reporting.
Will wait patiently to see if anything really concrete will take place. I am all for closing this loophole.:D
phantom_opera
12-08-13, 12:30
MBT allows whole HDB flat sublet for a purpose, to house the immigrants ... if now they tighten it, u ask immigrant family stay where, PCs ah?? :rolleyes:
this will only increase price gap btn HDB and PC ... resale HDB price might crash 10-15% overnight (but will rebound slowly as all the mainland Chinese with childrens as citizens/SPRs will snap up all of them) .. it would be stupid for PAP to allow SPRs to buy resale HDBs way below market prices :simmering:
Our HDB 99LH is a dream for mainland Chinese who only can get 70LH hoh
if they really do that, OCR PC 1br/2br will huat big time at the expense of lowering HDB resale prices :p
MBT allows whole HDB flat sublet for a purpose, to house the immigrants ... if now they tighten it, u ask immigrant family stay where, PCs ah?? :rolleyes:
this will only increase price gap btn HDB and PC ... resale HDB price might crash 10-15% overnight
u r very right on the above.
but let me ask u a qn. if u r hdb, would u rather which one to happen?
1. HDB no longer rentable. HDB prices moderated to an affordable & reasonable amt and PC prices soar like hell.
2. Cont'd to allow hdb to be rentable, n hdb prices will be pegged to pte.
govt wanna recover back all the lost votes from GE2011, u tink which one will help citizens regain confidence in them?
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 12:45
It is a zero sum game whether HDB flats can be rented out or not. If HDB flats are not allow to be rented out, it only means that people will have to move back to their HDB flats and rent out their private PC instead; hence increasing the rentable PC units in the market while at the same time the number of HDB rentable units are taken out of the market. Given the expect over supply coming in the next few years, the change in policy (not allowing the renting of entire HDB flat) is timely.
phantom_opera
12-08-13, 12:56
It is a zero sum game whether HDB flats can be rented out or not. If HDB flats are not allow to be rented out, it only means that people will have to move back to their HDB flats and rent out their private PC instead; hence increasing the rentable PC units in the market while at the same time the number of HDB rentable units are taken out of the market. Given the expect over supply coming in the next few years, the change in policy (not allowing the renting of entire HDB flat) is timely.
it is not a zero sum game ... immigrant families (SPRs, foreigners) will need to pay much more for PC rentals
and how about those HDB upgraders, if the price gap of PC increases, it is harder for them to upgrade
it can never be zero sum, the "price" has all the knowledge, if u change the rules, u may be surprised with "price changes" of HDB rental, PC rental, PC prices and HDB prices
PAP needs to be very careful in any change of policy when there is such a big immigrated population now, unlike 10y ago
摸着石头过河
it is not a zero sum game ... immigrant families (SPRs, foreigners) will need to pay much more for PC rentals
and how about those HDB upgraders, if the price gap of PC increases, it is harder for them to upgrade
it can never be zero sum, the "price" has all the knowledge, if u change the rules, u may be surprised with "price changes" of HDB rental, PC rental, PC prices and HDB prices
PAP needs to be very careful in any change of policy when there is such a big immigrated population now, unlike 10y ago
摸着石头过河
you forgot that the continual intake of foreigners, especially low grade ones who rely on renting HDB, is in the end not sustainable. Such immigrants are also not adding to the gene pool, according to Ngiam Tong Dow. So concurrently there needs to be a curb on foreign immigrants.
get ready to welcome HReit. hdb reit
the day of it will be when PAP gives up its governing.
Amber Woods
12-08-13, 13:09
it is not a zero sum game ... immigrant families (SPRs, foreigners) will need to pay much more for PC rentals
and how about those HDB upgraders, if the price gap of PC increases, it is harder for them to upgrade
it can never be zero sum, the "price" has all the knowledge, if u change the rules, u may be surprised with "price changes" of HDB rental, PC rental, PC prices and HDB prices
PAP needs to be very careful in any change of policy when there is such a big immigrated population now, unlike 10y ago
摸着石头过河
It is a zero sum as far as the units available be it for rental or purchased.
Of course prices will move according to market forces. If the objective is to go back to basic, it is the best time to do it.
princess_morbucks
12-08-13, 13:13
Mabbe one good way is that owners with HDB and PC will be allowed 2 options :
1. Move back to HDB, let out PC.
2. Stay in PC and let HDB handle the rental of the HDB flat eg as in a reit.
it is not a zero sum game ... immigrant families (SPRs, foreigners) will need to pay much more for PC rentals
and how about those HDB upgraders, if the price gap of PC increases, it is harder for them to upgrade
it can never be zero sum, the "price" has all the knowledge, if u change the rules, u may be surprised with "price changes" of HDB rental, PC rental, PC prices and HDB prices
PAP needs to be very careful in any change of policy when there is such a big immigrated population now, unlike 10y ago
摸着石头过河
I think the win win situation for government and citizens is to implement changes only on new BTO flats, whereby all new flats will be sold at rock bottom price but with restriction on rental, and leave the older flat unchanged.
However they should also insist on those holding multiply PC property owner to sell their HDB flat because its really insane to have HDB addressee buying up $20 to $30m investment property.
rightfully if the purpose of hdb is to provide affordable housing to citizens, profiteering should not be allowed in the 1st place.
since mistakes has been made, it is a matter of whether there is any intention to correct the problem in the 2nd place.
if unwilling to tackle the root of the problem, may as well oso save the saliva apologising or reassuring tat it wil be better la :banghead:
Mabbe one good way is that owners with HDB and PC will be allowed 2 options :
1. Move back to HDB, let out PC.
2. Stay in PC and let HDB handle the rental of the HDB flat eg as in a reit.
If choose to stay in PC, then they should let go their HDB, the most logical way.
rightfully if the purpose of hdb is to provide affordable housing to citizens, profiteering should not be allowed in the 1st place.
since mistakes has been made, it is a matter of whether there is any intention to correct the problem in the 2nd place.
if unwilling to tackle the root of the problem, may as well oso save the saliva apologising or reassuring tat it wil be better la :banghead:
just some time back, senior Lee told the pinnacle owners not to sell their flats as it will be an appreciating asset. So government is encouraging profiteering from hdb flats.
just some time back, senior Lee told the pinnacle owners not to sell their flats as it will be an appreciating asset. So government is encouraging profiteering from hdb flats.
capital appreciation is diff fm revenue derived from rental leh ...
just some time back, senior Lee told the pinnacle owners not to sell their flats as it will be an appreciating asset. So government is encouraging profiteering from hdb flats.
Yesterday a minister told Toa Payoh residents not to sell their HDB flats too. Although the reason is flimsy.
I have this feeling that "HDB back to basics" will be implemented per popular demand.
i.e. rental rooms only, no whole unit unless special cases, or only after 15yrs, buy private must stay in HDB or sell HDB, etc. i.e all the original lau Lee policies.
The political cost of "HDB px so high at xxx times of median income" is too high for the incumbent. It needs to be "politically correct".
And since no one is complaining "too difficult to update to condo", the cost of this is acceptable.
Note this "Conversation" is never about economics. Everything is about how to make Singaporeans happy. (no more PSLE pressure, no worry about health care, etc)
If you read lau Lee's recent book, you can sense he has given up fighting.
Proplive123
12-08-13, 15:10
Seem like harden to own 2nd prop, more HDB upgraders will rather sell their HDB and upgrade to pc to achieve aspirations. there is over 4k+ units of HDB above 500k asking price advertise on guru property.
I believe most will use their process to upgrade to pc. Or else are there any other alternative?
Allowing people to rent out HDB flats while staying in a PC is robbing the country of our assets and income!
Once people can afford or choose to stay in a PC, we should cut off the amblical cord and not allow them to profit from renting HDB flats.
Government should impose a tax on HDB rentals for those staying in PC. Something in the range of 45% of gross rental income. This is because HDB flats are to be viewed as a home rather than an asset. We build HDB flats on the premise that we want everyone to have a place call home. So that no one is left out and everyone is properly housed. NOT to let people profit from it at the expense of others. 45% is not too heavy a tax because most HDB loans are quite paid up already by the time people move to PC. In fact, at 45% tax, owners will still be able to make a profit!
If there is a party who can rent out HDB flats, it should be the government, as profit goes back to the country to lower our taxes or improve other aspects like healthcare.
DKSG
same goes for EC then those that bought at $400k and sold for $1Million should be taxed 45% in fact at 45% tax owners will still make a decent profit:cool:
govt wanna recover back all the lost votes from GE2011, u tink which one will help citizens regain confidence in them?
by messing around with hdb policies the effect might be drastic at next elections my 2:2cents:
this one just out from oven ... still hot
hdb = buy $300k sell $600k > no 1-fold profit no sell
hdb = retirement golden goose > no $2500 per month no let
hdb = money making tree is deeply rooted in everyone's mind
it's very hard to unroot this ...
SINGAPORE: Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen has urged residents of Toa Payoh Central not to sell their flats unless they have to.
Dr Ng, who is also MP for the area, said homes there may fetch a high selling price, but it will be hard to find a replacement, given its central location and accessibility.
Dr Ng was speaking at a National Day dinner celebration.
He said: "One is, if you sell your home from Toa Payoh, I worry that you are going to find it hard to find a replacement home that's better than Toa Payoh with the same amount of money.
"Second, I think that more likely than not, the prices of homes in Toa Payoh will go up. Why? Because if you look at the map, Toa Payoh is in the centre.
"North, south, east, west, whatever you build - roads and MRT - sooner or later they will have to cross Toa Payoh. That is why transportation is so easy here."
Dr Ng also said education is the best way to raise the standard of living of families.
He pledged to help children who may face difficulties.
One way is through fund-raising efforts, such as a marathon held in February where money raised helped children attend enrichment classes.
- CNA/ir
just some time back, senior Lee told the pinnacle owners not to sell their flats as it will be an appreciating asset. So government is encouraging profiteering from hdb flats.
just some time back, senior Lee told the pinnacle owners not to sell their flats as it will be an appreciating asset. So government is encouraging profiteering from hdb flats.
pinnacle owners waiting to rent out at 5k pm and sell at 1million after mop now all:banghead::banghead::banghead::D:D:D
by messing around with hdb policies the effect might be drastic at next elections my 2:2cents:
drastic as in gaining even more votes? :p
they nid to consider whether they will lose more votes by reducing hdb prices by 10% or allowing it to increase further by dunno how many %.
drastic as in gaining even more votes? :p
they nid to consider whether they will lose more votes by reducing hdb prices by 10% or allowing it to increase further by dunno how many %.
by time of next election at least 100000 new hdb flats will be ready i dont think price can go up:spliff2:
all said and done lets await 18 aug for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth:D:D:D
by time of next election at least 100000 new hdb flats will be ready i dont think price can go up:spliff2:
it is their intention not for the prices to go up wat!
all said and done lets await 18 aug for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth:D:D:D
usually tis type of national day speech is 报喜不报忧 ...
how many can handle the truth?
all said and done lets await 18 aug for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth:D:D:D
how many can handle the truth?
thats why the whole sentence is truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so HELP you GOD:D:D:D
phantom_opera
12-08-13, 19:21
hmm I think amk has a point ... basically to keep the majority happy and vote for PAP, it is better to accept lower HDB resale price vis a vis higher upgrade cost to PC as the upgrade group is smaller
since at the same time EP / S-Pass requirement will be tightened (nowadays no 4k+ no EP, no 3k+ no S-Pass), some of the "higher paid EP famililes" might just rent 2r PCs straight away if whole HDB cannot rent out
everybody who owns an HDB + 1 or 2 investment properties must rethink their strategies
one thing for sure, agents / developers in OCR will be beating mosquitoes until 18 August
blackjack21trader
12-08-13, 19:31
hmm I think amk has a point ... basically to keep the majority happy and vote for PAP, it is better to accept lower HDB resale price vis a vis higher upgrade cost to PC as the upgrade group is smaller
since at the same time EP / S-Pass requirement will be tightened (nowadays no 4k+ no EP, no 3k+ no S-Pass), some of the "higher paid EP famililes" might just rent 2r PCs straight away if whole HDB cannot rent out
everybody who owns an HDB + 1 or 2 investment properties must rethink their strategies
one thing for sure, agents / developers in OCR will be beating mosquitoes until 18 August
DUN SABO AGAIN LA !
phantom_opera
12-08-13, 21:02
and there are many ways to lower resale HDB prices e.g. stop SPRs from buying HDBs (currently need to pay ABSD liao), force sell existing HDBs where SPRs have left the country for say 1y
many SPRs will be holding their breath on 18 August too ;)
hmm I think amk has a point ... basically to keep the majority happy and vote for PAP, it is better to accept lower HDB resale price vis a vis higher upgrade cost to PC as the upgrade group is smaller
since at the same time EP / S-Pass requirement will be tightened (nowadays no 4k+ no EP, no 3k+ no S-Pass), some of the "higher paid EP famililes" might just rent 2r PCs straight away if whole HDB cannot rent out
everybody who owns an HDB + 1 or 2 investment properties must rethink their strategies
one thing for sure, agents / developers in OCR will be beating mosquitoes until 18 August
If concurrently the EC scheme is expanded aggressively, then upgrade cost to condo-style living from HDB can be lowered.
If foreigners are barred from buying resale ECs, it achieves two objectives - (1) existing EC pool is "protected" hence resale EC prices will be more affordable to Singaporeans, (2) EC owners do not get double benefit of 30k grants, and sells it with almost guaranteed built-in profit of 20% higher than equivalent condos.
This will maximize the majority happiness
- low income can buy cheaper resale flat
- middle-class upgraders can buy cheaper new and resale ECs
- HDB occupied-owner with condo investment - happy with a larger pool of tenants going after their condo for rental.
The ones not happy are
- condo-occupied owner with HDB rental asset (about 46k of HDB units are wholly rented out)
- foreigners - they dont have cheaper HDB alternatives
having said that, i think the retirees should the only group allowed to monetize their flats by renting it out, afterall they contribute 30-40yrs of service to singapore.
hmm I think amk has a point ... basically to keep the majority happy and vote for PAP, it is better to accept lower HDB resale price vis a vis higher upgrade cost to PC as the upgrade group is smaller
since at the same time EP / S-Pass requirement will be tightened (nowadays no 4k+ no EP, no 3k+ no S-Pass), some of the "higher paid EP famililes" might just rent 2r PCs straight away if whole HDB cannot rent out
everybody who owns an HDB + 1 or 2 investment properties must rethink their strategies
one thing for sure, agents / developers in OCR will be beating mosquitoes until 18 August
If concurrently the EC scheme is expanded aggressively, then upgrade cost to condo-style living from HDB can be lowered.
If foreigners are barred from buying resale ECs, it achieves two objectives - (1) existing EC pool is "protected" hence resale EC prices will be more affordable to Singaporeans, (2) EC owners do not get double benefit of 30k grants, and sells it with almost guaranteed built-in profit of 20% higher than equivalent condos.
This will maximize the majority happiness
- low income can buy cheaper resale flat
- middle-class upgraders can buy cheaper new and resale ECs
- HDB occupied-owner with condo investment - happy with a larger pool of tenants going after their condo for rental.
The ones not happy are
- condo-occupied owner with HDB rental asset (about 46k of HDB units are wholly rented out)
- foreigners - they dont have cheaper HDB alternatives
having said that, i think the retirees should the only group allowed to monetize their flats by renting it out, afterall they contribute 30-40yrs of service to singapore.
and there are many ways to lower resale HDB prices e.g. stop SPRs from buying HDBs (currently need to pay ABSD liao), force sell existing HDBs where SPRs have left the country for say 1y
many SPRs will be holding their breath on 18 August too ;)
market sure crash:doh:
People who own HDB should not be allowed to own private, and private not allowed to own HDB. Period.
It is a zero sum as far as the units available be it for rental or purchased.
Of course prices will move according to market forces. If the objective is to go back to basic, it is the best time to do it.
Basic? can people handle the basics. Owners cannot handle going back to basics.
Only buys always scream must be basic. ones they are owner they will scream why only basics.
I have this feeling that "HDB back to basics" will be implemented per popular demand.
i.e. rental rooms only, no whole unit unless special cases, or only after 15yrs, buy private must stay in HDB or sell HDB, etc. i.e all the original lau Lee policies.
The political cost of "HDB px so high at xxx times of median income" is too high for the incumbent. It needs to be "politically correct".
And since no one is complaining "too difficult to update to condo", the cost of this is acceptable.
Note this "Conversation" is never about economics. Everything is about how to make Singaporeans happy. (no more PSLE pressure, no worry about health care, etc)
If you read lau Lee's recent book, you can sense he has given up fighting.
then the people who ask for it will suffer...loh they donno wat they are asking for. all are just short term wants.. not long term plans.
same goes for EC then those that bought at $400k and sold for $1Million should be taxed 45% in fact at 45% tax owners will still make a decent profit:cool:
45%! why 45% should be 90%
I am just trying to say what this reporter reported. The government needs to address this problem if HDB is going back to basic.
By Charissa Yong
MORE Housing Board flat owners have been renting out their units in recent months - a phenomenon attributed to upgraders who want to keep their flats even as they move on to private property.
HDB figures last month showed a 6 per cent rise in subletting transactions between the first and second quarters of this year, from 7,410 cases to 7,891.
The number of transactions in the second quarter was also about 15 per cent higher than the 6,900 cases in the same period last year.
More flats were also rented out last month - 1,760 according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) estimates, up 27 per cent from 10 months ago.
Industry watchers said this is because there are more upgraders who own private property and want to rent out their HDB units for additional income.
Mr Chris Koh, director of property firm Chris International, traces this to a rule introduced three years ago, which mandates that private property owners must sell their existing property if they buy an HDB resale flat.
That is why some HDB owners with private property prefer not to sell their flats, he said. They cannot buy a resale flat once their HDB unit is sold while still holding on to private property.
HDB owners who have lived in their flat for the minimum occupation period are allowed to purchase private property and hold on to both at the same time.
The move towards renting out HDB flats is also fuelled by the large number of private units that are being completed this year - especially shoebox units, said R'ST Research director Ong Kah Seng.
"Many singles who have been staying with their parents in HDB flats have moved into the shoebox apartment they bought," he said. "The room they vacated can be rented out."
Entire flats are also freed up when aged parents move into a married child's home, he added.
One such person is semi- retired cashier Ang Ling Buang, 73, who began renting out his five-room flat in Hougang to an Indonesian family in March.
Mr Ang now lives with his wife in his son's Punggol flat, where he helps to take care of his grandson. He gets $2,600 in rent monthly.
For now, the increased supply has not had an impact on monthly median rent prices, which have stayed at $2,400 over the past year, SRX data showed.
Demand for HDB rentals is still robust because public flats are cheaper to rent than private ones of similar sizes.
This is especially appealing to foreigners, said ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim, as their rental budgets are often part of their salary packages.
"So to save money, more foreign employees are renting from the HDB market," he said.
Moreover, tenants sharing a room can save even more. "The rooms in many old HDB flats are very spacious, suitable for tenants to share," said Mr Ong.
But even with the increased supply of flats for rent, some landlords are still picky about tenants.
Mr Koh said most Singaporean flat owners prefer renting out to "good profile tenants" like couples with children. But those looking to rent in areas like Woodlands, Sembawang and Marsiling are mainly workers who want to share a flat or room.
"I've heard from agents on the ground that it now takes two months to rent out HDB flats that would have previously been rented out in two weeks," he said.
[email protected]
Basica? can give u back the type of 3 bed room quality build in the 80s see people today want a not. with brick walls can see the brick lines.. no plaster.. plain cement floor. see how many people really want this kind of BASIC.
the exorbitant rising cost to build a flat is due to land cost ... not building cost ... no need to go back to 80s basic
phantom_opera
14-08-13, 12:09
amber woods must be a socialist :p
HDB BTO is already socialist housing ... 100k can get 2r BTO, 130k can get 3r BTO with grant up to 80k ... those earning 1000kpm also can buy ... what's more do u want?
I see ... everybody wants a Mt Sinai condo at BTO price ... if possible additional grant ... that is "basic human right"
Only buys always scream must be basic. ones they are owner they will scream why only basics.
actually this is already reflected in the "Conversation", as ppl all expressed opinions that "HDB should be both home and asset". Ppl basically want the best of both. When the price is seemingly high today, the politically correct policy is to "back to basics"; when the price comes down, the policy then would be "boost asset values". All are short term crowd pleasing measures.
Long term thinking is no longer feasible my friend. The pitfalls of democracy, and the misguided belief of "collective thinking". Look at the "affordable health care" debates. Everything points to nationalizing healthcare insurances. If a party is starting to look at voter counts for its policy directions, this outcome is inevitable.
HDB should ALWAYS be home. NEVER asset. There are enough classes of residential properties to allow people to play around with as an asset, so HDB should stay true to its original intent, and that is providing people with a home.
Problem is when the government started touting HDB as an asset and a retirement tool people began all means to try to monetize it. Make it clear and simple. HDB is purely for staying ONLY. Obviously you don t just build brick walls for people, but don t need all the fancy landscaping, etc etc. You want to invest and speculate go buy private properties,ECs, etc.
If you ask me people who own HDB should never be allowed to own private property. Now you create another problem whereby people are all just keeping their HDBs to rent in land scarce singapore.
No money than don t buy condo. Don t act rich or try to hao lian when you cannot afford it. Simple as that.
rymccondo77
14-08-13, 22:31
There is this thing called aspirations - aspiration to upgrade to a condo or EC.
And HDB flat (selling it / renting it out) would help the person and his family to fulfill that aspiration.
For EC buyers, they have to sell off their HDB. Apply this policy to HDB owners who buy PC? Well this will make some people happy and some people not happy - not an easy decision to make.
Basica? can give u back the type of 3 bed room quality build in the 80s see people today want a not. with brick walls can see the brick lines.. no plaster.. plain cement floor. see how many people really want this kind of BASIC.
why not? give me 80s quality at 80s pricing you see how many people will prove u wrong.
why not? give me 80s quality at 80s pricing you see how many people will prove u wrong.
Agree.
BTW the IN thing is having exposed brick walls and cement screed flooring... very industrial looking.
I have even seen brand new condo owners who deliberately patch up their living room walls with bricks to make the look.
http://www.home-designing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Perserverence-Design-cool-palette-open-plan-kitchen-dining-with-brick-wall-and-concrete-floor.jpg
phantom_opera
15-08-13, 09:41
If u do not wish HDBs to be assets, then u have to impose rules such that it cannot be resold to SPRs, cannot sublet rooms, enforce it with special police, reward whistle blowers handsomely
When parents die, HDB flats must be returned to HDB, children will get peanuts.
Existing HDBs owned by SPRs will be "forcefully taken back" at original purchase price :doh:
Is that what u want?? Think !!!
There are many PhDs from other countries, now SPRs or SCs, willing to do work for 5kpm and waiting to buy your resale HDBs at 600k, 700k, 1m ....I have to agree with MM Lee that some Singaporeans are daft and one dumb garmen means Singapore is "finished"
phantom_opera
15-08-13, 10:38
Education Minister Heng Swee Keat
NO IDEOLOGICAL SHIFT
I would not characterise (the OSC-influenced policies) as an ideological shift. The founding generation of leaders has made it very clear that you need both growth and equity... We are probably one of the very few, if not the only, nation where (property) wealth is so widely shared among Singaporeans, and that's the reason why we have far fewer tycoons than many developing economies.
relax relax.............your guess is as good as mine
my colleague is applying for citizenship, all she wants is cheap housing and decent living conditions.
but thinking aloud, what are the percentage of HDB owners have more than 1 house......90%....50%.......30%.......10%????
will the new ruling to dis-allowed HDB to be rented out, would provide a better living conditions for the HDB owners that does not have a private condo.....
how many HDB owners that only have 1 house wants their living environment to be that of a dog dump
what the percentage of HDB owners that only has 1 house....90%......80%
for me I am going to buy my first HDB, the government that can bring the prices so that I can buy my house...will get my vote
just thinking out loud...no right , no wrong...just logic:D
My view:
there is nothing wrong with the policy of HDB..it is the expectation of a group of people who has changed unrealistically..
LKY in the past has mentioned so many times that HDB has value. And many other respectable ministers also echo that.
Controlling the number of HDB is not easy plus and minus problem.. build too many, cannot sell, built too less pent up demand....and we are saying galore amt of tax dollars involved in here... all these have been seen in the past and at present...this is the challenge here. In the past, from what I know, most people will try to get a new HDB first be it non mature estate, as they know the value of HDB will appreciate over time, as WITH prudent SPENDING, after a few years, upgrade to improve their life.. they have trust in Singapore will continue to grow.
Let me share some life examples, I have seen and known many younger people (before MAS curb) buying brand new BMWs with a salary of less than $4K every month(taking full loan), and they lament that housing are expensive and cannot afford it...they put the blame on garmen. They want short cut and no longer willing to work hard and wait for the fruit to grow.
My view is the focus is whether u are tackling new flat or resale. Basically new flat the problem is being tackled now as can be seen with so many new flats up. people who want a new flat face less problem of those who wish to get a resale flat where the major obstacle is high price due to country growth and inflation in macro terms of Singapore in general(unless u stay in other country where land is galore and with low or no growth at all, u can find cheap land cheap house 10 yrs later also price super low low, u can find at our neighboring countries).
So those people who have issue with housing have to be seen in perspective what is their agenda? For eg, those who advocate owners cannot own HDB when u own private or vice versa FOR THE PRUPOSE of curbing ppty Prices as appearing in newpapers forum and discussion, should we be looking at their profile before echoing what they mention? Why ? as we know in this example quoted, this does not help to solve the problem but in fact introduce a whole lots of other problems. May be they are not knowledgeable , maybe myopic(as what they say now will affect them in future) or they may have other motives behind...
From the recent newspaper report, I am heartened to read that a majority of singaporeans still want their HDB to be assets too(I sold mine and upgrade) and I have no qualm to ask my children next time to get a new HDB first be it non mature and work their ways up the same as so many singaporeans have done so. :2cents:
People who own HDB should not be allowed to own private, and private not allowed to own HDB. Period.
then this rule should havea pplied from day 1 not suka suka change rules then say now cannot own private one day say can buy private people happy happy buy then next say cannot:doh: what kind of policy is this:doh::doh::doh:
phantom_opera
17-08-13, 15:50
then this rule should havea pplied from day 1 not suka suka change rules then say now cannot own private one day say can buy private people happy happy buy then next say cannot:doh: what kind of policy is this:doh::doh::doh:
flip flop policy ... our neighbour likes it
the us-vs-them mentality (i.e. he is rich can afford condo I am poor can't afford BTO) is diving Singapore society ... let's see how PM Lee going to tackle it tomorrow ... otherwise .. in the year 2154, the rich lives in Elysium
My first post !!
From the recently concluded OSC exercise, Singaporeans have spoken and are asking for greater assurance from the govt, with many voicing housing issues as topmost on their minds.
One way of assuring Singaporeans, in my view, would be to sharpen the distinction between Singaporeans and PRs.
On housing/property related matters, these are some suggestions to make that distinction sharper:
- increase the ABSD for PRs purchasing their 1st residential property from 5% to 10% and from 10% to 15% for 2nd residential property onwards. For those PRs who are renting, they will have to continue renting for a longer period. For those looking to buy, they will be sidelined further. I do recognise this suggestion may create even more challenging conditions for the resale market, especially for HDB flats. Therefore this is where my 2nd suggestion will come in.
- allow Singaporeans who owned private property to buy HDB flats in the resale mkt. Impose MOP if the govt fears such buyers will buy to flip or immediately rent out the entire HDB flat and thereby sharply increase rental supply. After MOP, such HDB owners should be allowed to rent out the entire unit or sell in the resale market.
With more and more Singaporeans owning 2 or more properties, I am quite sure that a sizeable number are intending to rent out one or more properties for retirement or a secondary source of income. The govt should understand and support this. Therefore it should create conditions for PRs to rent, instead of owning properties, in Singapore. This will also tie in with the message "we will allow you to own a Singapore property only if you are prepared to be committed to Singapore's cause".
There is this thing called aspirations - aspiration to upgrade to a condo or EC.
And HDB flat (selling it / renting it out) would help the person and his family to fulfill that aspiration.
For EC buyers, they have to sell off their HDB. Apply this policy to HDB owners who buy PC? Well this will make some people happy and some people not happy - not an easy decision to make.
Once people cannot aspire coz thier HDB is worth Shit they will KPKB again. Whats so wrong to help HDB owners with their assperation.
HDB should ALWAYS be home. NEVER asset. There are enough classes of residential properties to allow people to play around with as an asset, so HDB should stay true to its original intent, and that is providing people with a home.
Problem is when the government started touting HDB as an asset and a retirement tool people began all means to try to monetize it. Make it clear and simple. HDB is purely for staying ONLY. Obviously you don t just build brick walls for people, but don t need all the fancy landscaping, etc etc. You want to invest and speculate go buy private properties,ECs, etc.
If you ask me people who own HDB should never be allowed to own private property. Now you create another problem whereby people are all just keeping their HDBs to rent in land scarce singapore.
No money than don t buy condo. Don t act rich or try to hao lian when you cannot afford it. Simple as that.
Its not just condo. what a narrow minded view. retirement? send kids to Uni? seeding fund to do business?
Or like u say bo hao lian dont send kids to uni lor.. the less well do do dont deserve a break?
:doh: :doh: :doh:
actually this is already reflected in the "Conversation", as ppl all expressed opinions that "HDB should be both home and asset". Ppl basically want the best of both. When the price is seemingly high today, the politically correct policy is to "back to basics"; when the price comes down, the policy then would be "boost asset values". All are short term crowd pleasing measures.
Long term thinking is no longer feasible my friend. The pitfalls of democracy, and the misguided belief of "collective thinking". Look at the "affordable health care" debates. Everything points to nationalizing healthcare insurances. If a party is starting to look at voter counts for its policy directions, this outcome is inevitable.
Well then the voters will get what they ask for. dont complain i will say.
I am concern we become a Taiwan. where shit dont move.
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 08:35
amber woods must be a socialist :p
HDB BTO is already socialist housing ... 100k can get 2r BTO, 130k can get 3r BTO with grant up to 80k ... those earning 1000kpm also can buy ... what's more do u want?
I see ... everybody wants a Mt Sinai condo at BTO price ... if possible additional grant ... that is "basic human right"
Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
The government is now building toward a fairer and just society hence there is a need to redistribute wealths in order to reduce the rich-poor gap and ensure long term harmony and sustainability.
Many successful societies, there is not one that is purely capitalist or socialist. Most of the successful societies are a mixture of both.
Amber - Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
Me- can share which govt is doing that???? Which country???
Thanks
Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
The government is now building toward a fairer and just society hence there is a need to redistribute wealths in order to reduce the rich-poor gap and ensure long term harmony and sustainability.
Many successful societies, there is not one that is purely capitalist or socialist. Most of the successful societies are a mixture of both.
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 08:41
Amber - Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
Me- can share which govt is doing that???? Which country???
Thanks
Can you name some of the more successful societies that are not?
Can you name some of the more successful societies that are not?
I cannot find any govt doing that, that's why I am asking you which govt is doing that.... And which country....
Truth....
HK? - no
US - no
UK - no
Malaysia - no
Thailand -no
I cannot think of any leh.... Can u give me a few???
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 08:50
I cannot find any govt doing that, that's why I am asking you which govt is doing that.... And which country....
Truth....
HK? - no
US - no
UK - no
Malaysia - no
Thailand -no
I cannot think of any leh.... Can u give me a few???
The countries you named are more capitalist and less socialist; same like Singapore. If you look closely into their policies, there are a lot more evidences of left-centred as what DPM Therman had said recently.
The countries you named are more capitalist and less socialist; same like Singapore. If you look closely into their policies, there are a lot more evidences of left-centre as what DPM Therman had said recently.
Here is the ranking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries
Also don't have leh.... Which country u referring to???
Really.... I interested to find out if it really exist... Just give me the name and I will google all the info myself...
Thanks
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 09:02
Here is the ranking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries
Also don't have leh.... Which country u referring to???
Really.... I interested to find out if it really exist... Just give me the name and I will google all the info myself...
Thanks
We are not talking on the same term. The point is there is no such a thing as a pure capitalism or socialism system. As you rightly pointed out, they are all self-declared.
We are not talking on the same term. The point is there is no such a thing as a pure capitalism or socialism system. As you rightly pointed out, they are all self-declared.
So the expectation of the govt is based on what?????
So if we compare with other countries, are we worst off or better off???
Which country provide massive public housing????
It is like parents who give their kids dinner at home and kids complain they want hawker food...
Parents bring kids to hawker centre, now kids complain they want restaurant food.
Parents now bring kids to restauaranta and kid complain they want find dining... And the list goes on....
Hahahahahaha
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 09:11
So the expectation of the govt is based on what?????
So if we compare with other countries, are we worst off or better off???
Which country provide massive public housing????
It is like parents who give their kids dinner at home and kids complain they want hawker food...
Parents bring kids to hawker centre, now kids complain they want restaurant food.
Parents now bring kids to restauaranta and kid complain they want find dining... And the list goes on....
Hahahahahaha
Sorry, but we are not on the same page.
Sorry, but we are not on the same page.
It's ok....
I am fine with that...
Everyone has their own views and it is through such diverse views, we make our home a better place...
Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
The government is now building toward a fairer and just society hence there is a need to redistribute wealths in order to reduce the rich-poor gap and ensure long term harmony and sustainability.
Many successful societies, there is not one that is purely capitalist or socialist. Most of the successful societies are a mixture of both.
today its a scarce commodity in 5 years times it will be a SCARE commodity there will be so much that it will be SCARING:cool:
Future MRT stations are not build for fun one and not to house ghosts also.
Jurong site and Defu development are not build for ghosts also.
Tengah and other new towns coming up.
BE PREPARE FOR POPULATION INCREASE.
I agree. I think it is to prepare the housing system for 6.9 mil.
I agree. I think it is to prepare the housing system for 6.9 mil.
Does that mean we need to SELL OUR INVESTMENT PROPERTIES NOW!!!!!
Hahahahahaha
So the expectation of the govt is based on what?????
So if we compare with other countries, are we worst off or better off???
Which country provide massive public housing????
It is like parents who give their kids dinner at home and kids complain they want hawker food...
Parents bring kids to hawker centre, now kids complain they want restaurant food.
Parents now bring kids to restauaranta and kid complain they want find dining... And the list goes on....
Hahahahahaha
and the list goes on
kids bring old parents to public hospital they say they want private hospital
kids take care of parents parents say they want their own maid
then kids bring parents to old folks home:D:D:D END of LIST:D:D:D
Does that mean we need to SELL OUR INVESTMENT PROPERTIES NOW!!!!!
Hahahahahaha
after the national day speech i advice you:D:D:D
Amber Woods
18-08-13, 09:23
today its a scarce commodity in 5 years times it will be a SCARE commodity there will be so much that it will be SCARING:cool:
All the more, it needs to be managed and distributed fairly. LHL will address it this evening.
All the more, it needs to be managed and distributed fairly. LHL will address it this evening.
I doubt so.... We can come back and revisit this case though....
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 10:32
the more the if PAP gives in to short term populist measure rather than long term systemic thinking, that's the beginning of the end
the evil is in the detail, I have no objection as a taxpayer to help median income at 1800 applying 2r hdb but if median is 4k will be nonsense
likewise a 60 or 70lh to allow some to invest less in hdb n rely more on pathetic 2.5pc cpf OA is fair
next these ppl will have green eyes when GDP growth is good
the more the if PAP gives in to short term populist measure rather than long term systemic thinking, that's the beginning of the end
the evil is in the detail, I have no objection as a taxpayer to help median income at 1800 applying 2r hdb but if median is 4k will be nonsense
likewise a 60 or 70lh to allow some to invest less in hdb n rely more on pathetic 2.5pc cpf OA is fair
next these ppl will have green eyes when GDP growth is good
Who cause it? Why PAP is giving in to more short term populist measures lately?
Most human beings are born short sighted and self centered
All Singapore born citizens entitled to 1 free 2 room hdb flat, just pay for upsize fee if u want a bigger flat. haa haa.. :rolleyes: :D
Allthepies
18-08-13, 10:56
So the expectation of the govt is based on what?????
So if we compare with other countries, are we worst off or better off???
Which country provide massive public housing????
It is like parents who give their kids dinner at home and kids complain they want hawker food...
Parents bring kids to hawker centre, now kids complain they want restaurant food.
Parents now bring kids to restauaranta and kid complain they want find dining... And the list goes on....
Hahahahahaha
Totally agree!!!! :cheers1: :cheers1:
People always beg/demand government to give them what they desire!
Successful people on the other hand achieve what they want themselves, they never want to beg from government or other people.
Housing is a scarce commodity hence any good government must ensure fair distribution. It is not about being socialism or capitalism.
Sure; so is food, drink, healthcare, petrol, money, or even well paying job, and in Singapore context, COE.
Based on your logic, gov should distribute all these fairly.
Where are you in this equation ? Just enjoy work life balance as a "fashion photographer" ? ( "I was impressed by the job aspiration of the youngsters today")
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 12:17
French are romantic n luxury goods providers
Italians and Swedish are designers
Germans n Japanese are engineering n high end manufacturers with top productivity
UK has hifis, Cambridge n Oxford
US are original thinkers in IT n marketing
Singaporean has only location and good governance and HDBs
dun want hdb as assets??
Sure; so is food, drink, healthcare, petrol, money, or even well paying job, and in Singapore context, COE.
Based on your logic, gov should distribute all these fairly.
Where are you in this equation ? Just enjoy work life balance as a "fashion photographer" ? ( "I was impressed by the job aspiration of the youngsters today")
Dont like that say the youngsters, they are quite poor thing also.
Many were brought up thinking that once they graduate, like their parents, they will have the PC, car, etc all lined up for them. They can buy more than 1 PC and enjoy life.
But the hard truth is ... with the influx of soooo mannnny damn rich immigrants coming in and prices escalated so much, many of them are pushed back to owning just a high priced HDB and nearly no chance of owning multiple PCs.
DKSG
If u are a Singaporean with a family, U are entitled a HDB w subsidy. If u are PR buy resale, if u are foreigners, buy pte (non landed in main land).
For Singaporean family who contribute population growth to Singapore, no one is obstructed for getting a HDB be it new or resale. I don't see any problem of not equal distribution. it is only people expectation beyond that is beyond realistic...for eg, heard people complaining why clementi resale flat is higher price compared to some not so mature new flat...why not make it cheaper, why people can own condo and HDB why not asking them to disown one...cannot rent HDB and therefore causing some old people not having income and get help from government(so the money come from where? the sky drops money is it???)etc etc...all self centred mindset..
some real issue such as helping older people to get jobs and more job opportunity for younger generation to be created or getting more companies to set up in Sg, creating more job opportunities for local are far more important to resolve....why not channel more energy to that area where it really can help SG grow instead of complaining or lamenting not fair distribution on HDB:2cents: :doh:
If u are a Singaporean with a family, U are entitled a HDB w subsidy. If u are PR buy resale, if u are foreigners, buy pte (non landed in main land).
For Singaporean family who contribute population growth to Singapore, no one is obstructed for getting a HDB be it new or resale. I don't see any problem of not equal distribution. it is only people expectation beyond that is beyond realistic...for eg, heard people complaining why clementi resale flat is higher price compared to some not so mature new flat...why not make it cheaper, why people can own condo and HDB why not asking them to disown one...cannot rent HDB and therefore causing some old people not having income and get help from government(so the money come from where? the sky drops money is it???)etc etc...all self centred mindset..
some real issue such as helping older people to get jobs and more job opportunity for younger generation to be created or getting more companies to set up in Sg, creating more job opportunities for local are far more important to resolve....why not channel more energy to that area where it really can help SG grow instead of complaining or lamenting not fair distribution on HDB:2cents: :doh:
I heard this old folks rent HDB argument many many times and think it is time to correct this view. Since we know policy makers are reading our posts.
Old Folks who prefer to starve then sell HDB! The Hard Truths ...
Government needs to understand that by making everyone a property owner, everyone, young old older, must be equip with BASIC property investment knowledge.
If you spend all your money to buy 100 kg of gold and now at 65 years old and got no cash, what do you do ?! You sell your gold bit by bit and get the money to survive on la! Just because you use all your money to buy GOLD, doesnt mean that the country is obliged to help you keep your GOLD to hand it down to your kids!
Same for property... if people decide to spend all their savings on a property (which is at times bigger than one's needs), doesnt mean the government have to support you. If a government supports such behaviour, the country will be in trouble.
Every matured country comes with matured citizens who knows the consequences, rewards and costs and risks of their decisions - every decision, including financial and property ones.
So for the so-called "poor" old folks who prefer to sit tight on their HDB property and refused to sell, downgrade and make reasonable sacrifices, how can policies be tweeked (ie allow rental to help them out) for them ?
This is the same as a person who stays in a D10 PC saying he must have 12 tenants in his PC so that he can collect enough rental to survive and asks the government to allow having 12 tenants in a PC.
Think, my friends, Think!
DKSG
what u have mentioned is one issue which is on micro level and could be included in one of the examples I have given(so no need to think)..the bottom line is I don't see any unfair distribution which I have seen others keep on harping on it in this thread....
I heard this old folks rent HDB argument many many times and think it is time to correct this view. Since we know policy makers are reading our posts.
Old Folks who prefer to starve then sell HDB! The Hard Truths ...
Government needs to understand that by making everyone a property owner, everyone, young old older, must be equip with BASIC property investment knowledge.
If you spend all your money to buy 100 kg of gold and now at 65 years old and got no cash, what do you do ?! You sell your gold bit by bit and get the money to survive on la! Just because you use all your money to buy GOLD, doesnt mean that the country is obliged to help you keep your GOLD to hand it down to your kids!
Same for property... if people decide to spend all their savings on a property (which is at times bigger than one's needs), doesnt mean the government have to support you. If a government supports such behaviour, the country will be in trouble.
Every matured country comes with matured citizens who knows the consequences, rewards and costs and risks of their decisions - every decision, including financial and property ones.
So for the so-called "poor" old folks who prefer to sit tight on their HDB property and refused to sell, downgrade and make reasonable sacrifices, how can policies be tweeked (ie allow rental to help them out) for them ?
This is the same as a person who stays in a D10 PC saying he must have 12 tenants in his PC so that he can collect enough rental to survive and asks the government to allow having 12 tenants in a PC.
Think, my friends, Think!
DKSG
I believe each Singaporean should entitled to own a HDB flat.
princess_morbucks
18-08-13, 16:39
Happen to see this online:
Here’s the programme outline for the day:
http://guanyinmiao.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/20130818-155252.jpg?w=750
I believe each Singaporean should entitled to own a HDB flat.
Can be more reasonable or not, every eligible Singaporean family unit lah. If every Singaporean then hubby and wifey both entitled to one HDB then eat not finish liao in this case. :D
Tonight is the night! Some will be sad some will jump for joy. Those in this forum I believe most if not all are in the top 20 percentile. Whatever the outcome be happy and contented. We are in a challenging globalised world. Not easy for govt to feed 5 million mouths without natural resources. Spend more time to guide our younger generation to have the right perspective instead of KPKB. Cheers!
princess_morbucks
18-08-13, 17:56
Tonight is the night! Some will be sad some will jump for joy. Those in this forum I believe most if not all are in the top 20 percentile. Whatever the outcome be happy and contented. We are in a challenging globalised world. Not easy for govt to feed 5 million mouths without natural resources. Spend more time to guide our younger generation to have the right perspective instead of KPKB. Cheers!
I will be neither happy nor sad, but I will be very excited.
Whatever it is, I am sure it will be advantageous to the majority of Singaporeans!
Cheers! Ganbei!:cheers4:
some real issue such as helping older people to get jobs and more job opportunity for younger generation to be created or getting more companies to set up in Sg, creating more job opportunities for local are far more important to resolve....why not channel more energy to that area where it really can help SG grow instead of complaining or lamenting not fair distribution on HDB:2cents: :doh:
Many ppl take it for granted that Singapore will remain prosperous. Hence the talk of equitable distribution of wealth.
During the white paper debate , not once did you see ppl raising the issue of "how can you be sure there are enough jobs and business activities that actually require 6.9mil, and how do you create and maintain these additional 2mil jobs". No even the opposition. The only argument against the 6.9mil is too crowded, too congested, dilution of SG, etc. many countries are facing crisis of reviving, or sustaining growth. We are the only lot that seems not too worried about that. There is no sense of crisis at all. Even Australia, who can simply sell commodities for another century, is concerned about its economy.
Yes time is changing. We are going to deal with it.
Many ppl take it for granted that Singapore will remain prosperous. Hence the talk of equitable distribution of wealth.
During the white paper debate , not once did you see ppl raising the issue of "how can you be sure there are enough jobs and business activities that actually require 6.9mil, and how do you create and maintain these additional 2mil jobs". No even the opposition. The only argument against the 6.9mil is too crowded, too congested, dilution of SG, etc. many countries are facing crisis of reviving, or sustaining growth. We are the only lot that seems not too worried about that. There is no sense of crisis at all. Even Australia, who can simply sell commodities for another century, is concerned about its economy.
Yes time is changing. We are going to deal with it.
So you are saying to become prosperous there needs to be inequitable distribution of wealth. Ha ha ha OMG!
So you are saying to become prosperous there needs to be inequitable distribution of wealth. Ha ha ha OMG!
Where in the world u can find equal wealth?
Where in the world u can find equal wealth?
Socialist regimes and communism do not work well. The leaders still take advantage of the masses. And the poor still remain poor.
Allthepies
18-08-13, 19:22
Tonight is the night! Some will be sad some will jump for joy. Those in this forum I believe most if not all are in the top 20 percentile. Whatever the outcome be happy and contented. We are in a challenging globalised world. Not easy for govt to feed 5 million mouths without natural resources. Spend more time to guide our younger generation to have the right perspective instead of KPKB. Cheers!
another well said posting...
Allthepies
18-08-13, 19:24
Many ppl take it for granted that Singapore will remain prosperous. Hence the talk of equitable distribution of wealth.
During the white paper debate , not once did you see ppl raising the issue of "how can you be sure there are enough jobs and business activities that actually require 6.9mil, and how do you create and maintain these additional 2mil jobs". No even the opposition. The only argument against the 6.9mil is too crowded, too congested, dilution of SG, etc. many countries are facing crisis of reviving, or sustaining growth. We are the only lot that seems not too worried about that. There is no sense of crisis at all. Even Australia, who can simply sell commodities for another century, is concerned about its economy.
Yes time is changing. We are going to deal with it.
Thumb up!
Tat the reason u r in top 20%! Well earned
Allthepies
18-08-13, 19:27
Socialist regimes and communism do not work well. The leaders still take advantage of the masses. And the poor still remain poor.
Even in animal kingdom there no equality... look at the ants hierarchy, one queen ant and many worker ants to work for her. ..
I personally think we need diverse views... Honestly, without the kpkb people, would the issues On HDB, education and immigration issues be looked at more earnestly???
I am very happy that the govt is
1. Looking after the old (inclusive society)
2. Opportunities for the young...
Did u know the immigration did not reduce... Just the inflow was reduced compared with the PAST.
SO POPULATION CONTINUE TO INCREASE BUT AT A SLOWER PACE
:cheers3:
Even in animal kingdom there no equality... look at the ants hierarchy, one queen ant and many worker ants to work for her. ..
and a few lucky one get to climb her:D:D:D just like kena toto:D:D:D
princess_morbucks
18-08-13, 19:45
and a few lucky one get to climb her:D:D:D just like kena toto:D:D:D
But their joy is short lived, cos they die shortly after.
Tonight is the night! Some will be sad some will jump for joy. Those in this forum I believe most if not all are in the top 20 percentile. Whatever the outcome be happy and contented. We are in a challenging globalised world. Not easy for govt to feed 5 million mouths without natural resources. Spend more time to guide our younger generation to have the right perspective instead of KPKB. Cheers!
Whatever the outcome, no worries and be happy, we are still one nation and all are responsible to build and love Singapore, if we don't who will. :D
明天会更好！Cheers :cheers3:
first half conclusion..
明天會更好！！:D
Allthepies
18-08-13, 20:53
With housing and health care taken care of, hopefully Singaporeans can concentrate on contributing positively to country, society and family... :D :D :D
less keyboard warriors and more time spent outdoor exercising.. :D :D
3centsworth
18-08-13, 20:59
Many of existing HDB owners can breathe a sigh of relief that the Govt is not killing the HDB rental market... yet. As PM has announced , they are giving more subsidiaries to first time HDB buyer to purchase BTO flat. The price of the BTO flat especially for the lower income groups, is priced at very affordable "subsidized" level.
Hopefully, the new measures will do little to affect existing HDB homeowners and private property owners on their property prices.
To me, at least we are moving towards and inclusive society.... We need to take care of the aged and less fortunate....
:cheers3: To that....
It cannot always be about money and personal gain...
Many of existing HDB owners can breathe a sigh of relief that the Govt is not killing the HDB rental market... yet. As PM has announced , they are giving more subsidiaries to first time HDB buyer to purchase BTO flat. The price of the BTO flat especially for the lower income groups, is priced at very affordable "subsidized" level.
Hopefully, the new measures will do little to affect existing HDB homeowners and private property owners on their property prices.
Second half conclusion...
HDB back to basic = Cheap n affordable 2,3 n 4 rm BTO HDB...:cheers4:
To me, at least we are moving towards and inclusive society.... We need to take care of the aged and less fortunate....
:cheers3: To that....
It cannot always be about money and personal gain...
bro you are a good man:cheers1:
Oops ... Office Boy missed a big part of it.
Anyone can help summarise the property portions ?
DKSG
Many of existing HDB owners can breathe a sigh of relief that the Govt is not killing the HDB rental market... yet. As PM has announced , they are giving more subsidiaries to first time HDB buyer to purchase BTO flat. The price of the BTO flat especially for the lower income groups, is priced at very affordable "subsidized" level.
Hopefully, the new measures will do little to affect existing HDB homeowners and private property owners on their property prices.
While the government continues to keep flats affordable for future flat buyers, Mr Lee said for existing home owners, the value of their HDB flats will be maintained for their old age.
Ok I'm glad my gut feeling was wrong. The HDB story continues as it is :)
A bit more subsidies for BTO, didn't rock the boat.
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 22:00
additional subsidy of 10k for 3r BTO for family income <2k
additional subsidy of 20k for 4r BTO for family income <4k
very clever ... most graduates family income (or new SC family) will be more than 4k
the PSLE changes are actually quite substantial:
1. Do away with T-score and
2. At least 40 places for non-alumnis (phase 2A must ballot next time liao)
3. Pri schools to recommend students to go into top schools (even if result is outside of cutoff)
signs already written all over the places when EM Goh went to RI to warn about elitism ...
Oops ... Office Boy missed a big part of it.
Anyone can help summarise the property portions ?
DKSG
While the government continues to keep flats affordable for future flat buyers, Mr Lee said for existing home owners, the value of their HDB flats will be maintained for their old age.
Govn ensure that:
1k pay sure can buy 2rm BTO HDB
2k pay sure can buy 3rm BTO HDB
4k pay sure can buy 4rm BTO HDB
base on 25years loan n pay by CPF..
Oops ... Office Boy missed a big part of it.
Anyone can help summarise the property portions ?
DKSG
....Paya Lebar will be the next big thing but gonna be some years down the line....with Tuas and Changi big plans....East, Centre and West all gonna get their turns.....
....Paya Lebar will be the next big thing but gonna be some years down the line....with Tuas and Changi big plans....East, Centre and West all gonna get their turns.....
Singapore...HUAT ahhh:D :D :D
While the government continues to keep flats affordable for future flat buyers, Mr Lee said for existing home owners, the value of their HDB flats will be maintained for their old age.
Thank you thank you ...
Watching the news now ... What Office Boy conclude is that prices will continue to go up. As usual, government will help those with problems catching up.
So, expect prices to continue climbing ...
DKSG
additional subsidy of 10k for 3r BTO for family income <2k
additional subsidy of 20k for 4r BTO for family income <4k
very clever ... most graduates family income (or new SC family) will be more than 4k
the PSLE changes are actually quite substantial:
1. Do away with T-score and
2. At least 40 places for non-alumnis (phase 2A must ballot next time liao)
3. Pri schools to recommend students to go into top schools (even if result is outside of cutoff)
I think 2A probably no need to ballot for MOST schools. But 2B people all die....imagine you already did your PV.... and they roll in the changes in 2014... I thought it is REALLY stupid for the government to make changes to the 2014 enrollment when everyone already planned for which primary school to go. I think they are going to make more enemies than friends.
can we move our Military Airbase beside Changi???
Can have fighter jets landing beside commercial jets?? safe or not? so many planes flying together....
can we move our Military Airbase beside Changi???
Can have fighter jets landing beside commercial jets?? safe or not? so many planes flying together....
We have one of the top Aviation industry in the world.
We have to assume that the experts have studied this very very preliminary question.
Why not you ask this question on PM Lee's facebook ?
DKSG
Wah...fighter jet flying above private housing at Flora Drive and Loyang.
End of the Jurong story ?
Totally left out in the next 20 years ! Except that the port will be move to Tuas.
DKSG
proud owner
18-08-13, 22:30
End of the Jurong story ?
Totally left out in the next 20 years ! Except that the port will be move to Tuas.
DKSG
pasir panjang huat ah
End of the Jurong story ?
Totally left out in the next 20 years ! Except that the port will be move to Tuas.
DKSG
Jurong already had its turn.....cannot everything jurong ......
Those with low plot ratio around PL will be targeted for en bloc........good time to snoop out potential.......
rymccondo77
18-08-13, 22:34
End of the Jurong story ?
Totally left out in the next 20 years ! Except that the port will be move to Tuas.
DKSG
Don't think so - PM still mentioned Jurong Gateway in his speech - with picture shown of the development :)
Refer to:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/skyline/skyline13/skyline13-01/files/Spreading%20out.pdf
End of the Jurong story ?
Totally left out in the next 20 years ! Except that the port will be move to Tuas.
DKSG
Jurong Lake District was once again being feature on this year NDP Rally as an on going project and shifting of PSA to Tuas will further enhance the importance of JLD as the future commercial hub. In future, shipping companies currently located in Keppel will shift to the west.
Jurong Lake District was once again being feature on this year NDP Rally as an on going project and shifting of PSA to Tuas will further enhance the importance of JLD as the future commercial hub. In future, shipping companies currently located in Keppel will shift to the west.
This is how Jurong can sell for $2,000 psf in year 2027 ?
DKSG
This is how Jurong can sell for $2,000 psf in year 2027 ?
DKSG
OCR property will continue to outperform CCR property in the next 20 to 30 years because government wants to spread wealth to all Singaporeans.
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 23:01
OCR property will continue to outperform CCR property in the next 20 to 30 years because government wants to spread wealth to all Singaporeans.
obviously u are biased but it has some truth in it
to remain competitive ... government has to offer more offices outside CBD i.e. JLD and Paya Lebar (I was initially wondering why Paya Lebar so small but Wee family is so keen in bidding .. sigh ... Old Wee is really cunning)
Regulators
18-08-13, 23:03
Buying CCR is about prestige. You can't compare a Kate spade n a hermes birkin even though both can perform same function as a carrier. Would a super star celebrity look better carrying a Kate spade or a birkin down the red carpet? So for the same price, would u go for a birkin or a Kate spade or would u rather pay birkin px for a Kate spade? I think u r doing the latter :doh:
OCR property will continue to outperform CCR property in the next 20 to 30 years because government wants to spread wealth to all Singaporeans.
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 23:06
one thing PM Lee will never say but u get the hint
keep your HDB as asset, we will continue to take in truckloads of foreigners / SPRs in 2017 once our transport/housing are able to cope .... later the new SPRs will rent or buy your 1million HDB yet we will roll out cheap cheap BTOs at Sengkang, Paya Lebar (huge plot) for future SC 1st timers
huat ah Singapoeans !!!
hmmm ... increased Medisave contribution and ceiling .. u lagi need to pledge your HDB @ 55 ... get it or not??
don't be daft!!!
one thing PM Lee will never say but u get the hint
keep your HDB as asset, we will continue to take in truckloads of foreigners / SPRs in 2017 once our transport/housing are able to cope .... later the new SPRs will rent or buy your 1million HDB yet we will roll out cheap cheap BTOs at Sengkang, Paya Lebar (huge plot) for future SC 1st timers
huat ah Singapoeans !!!
don't be daft!!!
the most important part of his speech is government still believe in spreading wealth through home equity.
can we move our Military Airbase beside Changi???
Can have fighter jets landing beside commercial jets?? safe or not? so many planes flying together....
There is already a military airbase operating in Changi Airport using one of the runways for operation for more than 5 years if I remember correctly.. so safe or not.. seen any air traffic accidents recently?
phantom_opera
18-08-13, 23:13
the most important part of his speech is government still believe in spreading wealth through home equity.
otherwise, how can the lower income able to pledge their HDB @ 55 ... he already said Medisave contribution to go up (also higher Medishield) .. eventually I estimate Medisave limit may be raised to 100k over the next 15y
so assume u are at 40, when u hit 55, CPF SA min sum might be 250k, Medisave min sum might be 100k ... 350k for husband, 350k for wife
resale HDB at 700k expected loh
This is just the beginning of sg property bull run.
Singaporeans huat ahh.
This is just the beginning of sg property bull run.
Singaporeans huat ahh.
The Speech has an implicit meaning to everyone here and outside - we are on a growth path still, everything will be more expensive as we strive to become First Class, Top Notch!
DKSG
Buying CCR is about prestige. You can't compare a Kate spade n a hermes birkin even though both can perform same function as a carrier. Would a super star celebrity look better carrying a Kate spade or a birkin down the red carpet? So for the same price, would u go for a birkin or a Kate spade or would u rather pay birkin px for a Kate spade? I think u r doing the latter :doh:
man with substance doesnt need all that stuffs
http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/singaporeseen/this-urban-jungle/how-27-year-ol%E2%80%8Bd-spore-woman-lands-herself-in-100k-debt
otherwise, how can the lower income able to pledge their HDB @ 55 ... he already said Medisave contribution to go up (also higher Medishield) .. eventually I estimate Medisave limit may be raised to 100k over the next 15y
so assume u are at 40, when u hit 55, CPF SA min sum might be 250k, Medisave min sum might be 100k ... 350k for husband, 350k for wife
resale HDB at 700k expected loh
the last few days, many here talk about no more rental for hdb, i was still wondering did i make a mistake to pay 40k cov in 2010 for my hdb :D
heng ah, PM say not going to drop bto prices but give more grants :D
Govt redistribution of wealth, OCR price will up more, CCR lesser up. OCR more developments.
Govt redistribution of wealth, OCR price will up more, CCR lesser up. OCR more developments.
Pure Rubbish!
Though Office Boy is vested in OCR, but must correct this wrongful thinking.
The Theory of Concentration will always prevail, just timing differences.
When Punggol price go up, Hougang price will follow ...
When Jurong price goes up, Clementi prices will also follow ... if not who would pay same price for Jurong as Clementi ?
At the end of the day, there is only one Orchard Road.
DKSG
Pure Rubbish!
Though Office Boy is vested in OCR, but must correct this wrongful thinking.
The Theory of Concentration will always prevail, just timing differences.
When Punggol price go up, Hougang price will follow ...
When Jurong price goes up, Clementi prices will also follow ... if not who would pay same price for Jurong as Clementi ?
At the end of the day, there is only one Orchard Road.
DKSG
Yes, there is only one Orchard Road within CCR.
my opinion...don't say ppl opinion pure rubbish la, I know you are only into CCR mainly. but face it, embrace the change! believe it or not, OCR will cheong more in future. If not how to do a good wealth distribution? make CCR much more expensive? make foreigner earn more? no la of course, even the ang mo know where to go already. in future, only tourists go orchard I believe...
if your CCR up 2%, OCR will up 5-10%, so do your sum with that kind of cash. which one more worthwhile investing...:o
Pure Rubbish!
Though Office Boy is vested in OCR, but must correct this wrongful thinking
The Theory of Concentration will always prevail, just timing differences.
When Punggol price go up, Hougang price will follow ...
When Jurong price goes up, Clementi prices will also follow ... if not who would pay same price for Jurong as Clementi ?
At the end of the day, there is only one Orchard Road.
DKSG
Pure Rubbish!
Though Office Boy is vested in OCR, but must correct this wrongful thinking.
The Theory of Concentration will always prevail, just timing differences.
When Punggol price go up, Hougang price will follow ...
When Jurong price goes up, Clementi prices will also follow ... if not who would pay same price for Jurong as Clementi ?
At the end of the day, there is only one Orchard Road.
DKSG
bro seems like u invested everywhere i hereby promote u to officeBOSS:D :D :D
Yes, there is only one Orchard Road within CCR.
Are u guys familiar with watches???? Let me share something about Rolexes...
Are they premium watches???
If you buy a Rolex half gold with diamond, do you think the price will shoot up in 10 years... Yes... Brand new prices will shoot up, but selling to a second hand shop. The price will be lower then what you bot 10 years ago...
But if u buy a sea dweller, explorer or submariner, the price would be the same or better....
So not all Rolexes are the same... You need to know which is I'm demand and which is not...
So not all CCRs are the same.... There was a guy who said my anchorage together with waterview is less than his 800sq ft robertson...
How can it be when my anchorage is > 1,500sq ft????
So is a 1,500sq ft rcr worse off than a 800sq ft CCR???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:cheers2:
Is a Mercedes that important???? Mercedes resale is better than a Toyota Viaos?????
Prove it.....
Is a Mercedes that important???? Mercedes resale is better than a Toyota Viaos?????
Prove it.....
dont pray play TOYOTA VIOS the bestest...:D :D :D
dont pray play TOYOTA VIOS the bestest...:D :D :D
Bro, after the rally, here is my take
1. There is heart - healthcare for the aged to beyond 100. Taxpayers pay more. I don't mind... We need to at least try to be inclusive as much as possible.
Honestly, we could not have done it without our kpkb bros and sis... So long as it is done within reason.... THANKS
2.. The less fortunate are being taken care so they are not left behind... Govt with a heart... HDB GRANTS
3. Govt is in a dilemma. SME wants more foreign workers... Foreign workers are still coming in but at slower pace. Bottomline, population is still increasing... What does this mean to HDB AND PRIVATE?
can u imagine if there is no cm now and the reaction to the property market after this speech????? So CM is good!!!!!
Overall, what I saw was HEART!!!! At the NDR...
:cheers2: :cheers2: :D
Did u guys hear PM speak about 3d printing ??? Did u guys know Obama also spoke about 3d printing which caused the shares to shoot...
Bro, after the rally, here is my take
1. There is heart - healthcare for the aged to beyond 100. Taxpayers pay more. I don't mind... We need to at least try to be inclusive as much as possible.
Honestly, we could not have done it without our kpkb bros and sis... So long as it is done within reason.... THANKS
2.. The less fortunate are being taken care so they are not left behind... Govt with a heart... HDB GRANTS
3. Govt is in a dilemma. SME wants more foreign workers... Foreign workers are still coming in but at slower pace. Bottomline, population is still increasing... What does this mean to HDB AND PRIVATE?
can u imagine if there is no cm now and the reaction to the property market after this speech????? So CM is good!!!!!
Overall, what I saw was HEART!!!! At the NDR...
:cheers2: :cheers2: :D
Ya. Best oscar goes to pm. He even managed a sniffle after telling story of the blind Dr.
Ya. Best oscar goes to pm. He even managed a sniffle after telling story of the blind Dr.
and he said he was a hdb property agent selling cheap flats after the speech who want to buy go go outside there is a booth there:D :D :D
Bro, after the rally, here is my take
1. There is heart - healthcare for the aged to beyond 100. Taxpayers pay more. I don't mind... We need to at least try to be inclusive as much as possible.
Honestly, we could not have done it without our kpkb bros and sis... So long as it is done within reason.... THANKS
2.. The less fortunate are being taken care so they are not left behind... Govt with a heart... HDB GRANTS
3. Govt is in a dilemma. SME wants more foreign workers... Foreign workers are still coming in but at slower pace. Bottomline, population is still increasing... What does this mean to HDB AND PRIVATE?
can u imagine if there is no cm now and the reaction to the property market after this speech????? So CM is good!!!!!
Overall, what I saw was HEART!!!! At the NDR...
:cheers2: :cheers2: :D
They are expensive to run. More population is needed to sustain them.
and he said he was a hdb property agent selling cheap flats after the speech who want to buy go go outside there is a booth there:D :D :D
I think i need to change my former avatar from I heart mm to I HEART PM
They are expensive to run. More population is needed to sustain them.
Honestly, we cannot leave the less fortunate and older behind... It is just not rite...
I rather pay more...
I am not asking for massive social welfare... But the least we can do is take care of the less fortunate who are not capable... So long as it is reasonable, I am all for it.
I think i need to change my former avatar from I heart mm to I HEART PM
will definately look better than a bandaged thumb:D :D :D
all good things has to be paid for
at least this is said upfront ... don't expect govt to pick up the full bill
all good things has to be paid for
at least this is said upfront ... don't expect govt to pick up the full bill
Agree, money cannot came from noway. To hv more grant for the 2,3 n 4 rm bto, other area need to cut. I guess EC grant removing soon...:doh:
Honestly, we cannot leave the less fortunate and older behind... It is just not rite...
I rather pay more...
I am not asking for massive social welfare... But the least we can do is take care of the less fortunate who are not capable... So long as it is reasonable, I am all for it.
Agree. I alrady shared a lot of my wealth towards Nation Building and iras has thanked me many times. Lol
stalingrad
19-08-13, 08:53
Buying CCR is about prestige. You can't compare a Kate spade n a hermes birkin even though both can perform same function as a carrier. Would a super star celebrity look better carrying a Kate spade or a birkin down the red carpet? So for the same price, would u go for a birkin or a Kate spade or would u rather pay birkin px for a Kate spade? I think u r doing the latter :doh:
I don't give a hoot about prestige. I would rather laugh all the way to the bank, as I would do with OCR properties. By the way, losers can't claim prestige, as no one likes losers. CCR owners are bunch of losers, and sore losers at that.
BTW, if you CCR losers had listened to me 6 years old, you would have your share of the pie too. Instead, you wasted your time arguing with me and bad-mouthing OCR properties. Haha, told you so 6 years ago.
Super ex...ponential.
"However, there will no choice to opt-out under the scheme to be named MediShield Life and premiums will likely be higher.
But PM Lee said that those who cannot afford to pay for the higher premiums do not have to worry as the Government will step in to help."
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/ndr-2013-medishield-revamped-will-cover-all-life-20130818
"However, there will no choice to opt-out under the scheme to be named MediShield Life and premiums will likely be higher.
But PM Lee said that those who cannot afford to pay for the higher premiums do not have to worry as the Government will step in to help."
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/ndr-2013-medishield-revamped-will-cover-all-life-20130818
Very iffy. Left pocket pay more taxes so as to beef up right and backside pockets to help ourselves when we are old and frail. Pure stats will tell u most people wont utilise it much less maximise it just like how insurance companies go on and on without closing down.
From SG Inc become SG Property Pte Ltd and SG Insurance Co Op Ltd.
Nice...
Very iffy. Left pocket pay more taxes so as to beef up right and backside pockets to help ourselves when we are old and frail. Pure stats will tell u most people wont utilise it much less maximise it just like how insurance companies go on and on without closing down.
From SG Inc become SG Property Pte Ltd and SG Insurance Co Op Ltd.
Nice...
My sense is when subsidies and (compulsory) insurance premiums go up, the hospitalisation and other treatment fees could also go up to cream off the new money.
This is very iffy. Medical costs are likely to escalate. The premiums will go up for sure. All your Medisave will go towards paying the premiums. Likely to increase contribution to Medisave and higher cap for Medisave in the future.
This is very iffy. Medical costs are likely to escalate. The premiums will go up for sure. All your Medisave will go towards paying the premiums. Likely to increase contribution to Medisave and higher cap for Medisave in the future.
Yes. I thought pm already said that this means that medisave contributions will also have to increase in tandem.
Thats when the mental image of left pocket to right pocket and scratching backside (pocket) arose.
And the pragmatic 'devil' gives his alternative views:
NO FREE LUNCH, daft sinkies.
You want less ft. Ok we do it. But sme u either improve productivity go iskandar or balik kampung ok.
You want more places in p1 schs. Ok we do it. Give u 40 places. See if u that lucky not lor!
You want no more psle stress. Ok we do it. Ala o level style. But people will still compare scores. And elitist top schs will still be so. How else to differentiate?
You want cheaper bto. Ok we do it. We maintain the expensive pricing (which will still hit everyone) but increase the subsidy (only select group will enjoy with many t n c attached).
You want to know how we fit the 6.9? Ok we tell you how. Clear the airbase and ports and build highrise all around u to block all ur precious silly fireworks views and then see if it helps to elevate your home prices while all the noisy and dirty and messy construction works go on the next 20 to 30 yrs. hey it is to raise our plot ratio and land value isnt it? En bloc anyone?
You want to be insured against huge medical bills forever? Ok we do it. U pay up more now while you are still working and not on your death bed. U will get less worry on your death bed about the huge medical bills. One less worry perhaps will rock you back to life from the dumps? At least paying your life savings away for medical coverage lessen burden on your children but hmmm i wonder how come i didnt have any property to leave to them after im gone. Oh no more money for those 'luxuries'. :(
So moral of the story? Lppl and continue sucking your thumbs daft sinkies.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U WISH FOR
Very well summarized....
:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
And the pragmatic 'devil' gives his alternative views:
NO FREE LUNCH, daft sinkies.
You want less ft. Ok we do it. But sme u either improve productivity go iskandar or balik kampung ok.
You want more places in p1 schs. Ok we do it. Give u 40 places. See if u that lucky not lor!
You want no more psle stress. Ok we do it. Ala o level style. But people will still compare scores. And elitist top schs will still be so. How else to differentiate?
You want cheaper bto. Ok we do it. We maintain the expensive pricing (which will still hit everyone) but increase the subsidy (only select group will enjoy with many t n c attached).
You want to know how we fit the 6.9? Ok we tell you how. Clear the airbase and ports and build highrise all around u to block all ur precious silly fireworks views and then see if it helps to elevate your home prices while all the noisy and dirty and messy construction works go on the next 20 to 30 yrs. hey it is to raise our plot ratio and land value isnt it? En bloc anyone?
You want to be insured against huge medical bills forever? Ok we do it. U pay up more now while you are still working and not on your death bed. U will get less worry on your death bed about the huge medical bills. One less worry perhaps will rock you back to life from the dumps? At least paying your life savings away for medical coverage lessen burden on your children but hmmm i wonder how come i didnt have any property to leave to them after im gone. Oh no more money for those 'luxuries'. :(
So moral of the story? Lppl and continue sucking your thumbs daft sinkies.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U WISH FOR
You want cheaper bto. Ok we do it. We maintain the expensive pricing (which will still hit everyone) but increase the subsidy (only select group will enjoy with many t n c attached).
yesterday he gave illustration of 4rm flat for household income up to 4k.
does it mean, household income 4k and below then will get the extra grants? meaning 4k to 6k group get nothing?
Very well summarized....
:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Cheers my bro. I will look on the bright side and not the back side.
yesterday he gave illustration of 4rm flat for household income up to 4k.
does it mean, household income 4k and below then will get the extra grants? meaning 4k to 6k group get nothing?
It really depends what is his definition of 'middle income' group.
It is at best a moving target. We already have forummers here stating 15-20k pm as middle income. If on the ground people already have vast differing ideas how then do we expect the policy makers to get it right?
At best it will just be a guideline. Better to aim and work for the sky rather. At least if fail still may hit the tree with fresh fruits hanging low then the ground with over ripe and rotten fruits.
And the pragmatic 'devil' gives his alternative views:
NO FREE LUNCH, daft sinkies.
You want less ft. Ok we do it. But sme u either improve productivity go iskandar or balik kampung ok.
You want more places in p1 schs. Ok we do it. Give u 40 places. See if u that lucky not lor!
You want no more psle stress. Ok we do it. Ala o level style. But people will still compare scores. And elitist top schs will still be so. How else to differentiate?
You want cheaper bto. Ok we do it. We maintain the expensive pricing (which will still hit everyone) but increase the subsidy (only select group will enjoy with many t n c attached).
You want to know how we fit the 6.9? Ok we tell you how. Clear the airbase and ports and build highrise all around u to block all ur precious silly fireworks views and then see if it helps to elevate your home prices while all the noisy and dirty and messy construction works go on the next 20 to 30 yrs. hey it is to raise our plot ratio and land value isnt it? En bloc anyone?
You want to be insured against huge medical bills forever? Ok we do it. U pay up more now while you are still working and not on your death bed. U will get less worry on your death bed about the huge medical bills. One less worry perhaps will rock you back to life from the dumps? At least paying your life savings away for medical coverage lessen burden on your children but hmmm i wonder how come i didnt have any property to leave to them after im gone. Oh no more money for those 'luxuries'. :(
So moral of the story? Lppl and continue sucking your thumbs daft sinkies.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U WISH FOR
How true and totally agree with your summary....
We as citizen must also be responsible:
- take care of our health.. try not to be a burden to our family...
- dont' KPKB for nothing, be responsible and be careful of what we wish for (this is so true)
It really depends what is his definition of 'middle income' group.
It is at best a moving target. We already have forummers here stating 15-20k pm as middle income. If on the ground people already have vast differing ideas how then do we expect the policy makers to get it right?
At best it will just be a guideline. Better to aim and work for the sky rather. At least if fail still may hit the tree with fresh fruits hanging low then the ground with over ripe and rotten fruits.
Brudder, how can a person earning 15k per month - assume 12 month = 180K/year (top 8.7% earner) be considered middle class??? Please inpout in the figure below
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Lets not kid ourselves....
Read page 10
http://www.nuss.org.sg/%5CFileStore%5CDocuments%5C2_70.pdf
Brudder, how can a person earning 15k per month - assume 12 month = 180K/year (top 8.7% earner) be considered middle class??? Please inpout in the figure below
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Lets not kid ourselves....
Read page 10
http://www.nuss.org.sg/%5CFileStore%5CDocuments%5C2_70.pdf
Dun tell me. Tell that forummer. ;)
human nature to compare upwards. 180k pa folks compare with 300k.
And the pragmatic 'devil' gives his alternative views:
NO FREE LUNCH, daft sinkies.
You want less ft. Ok we do it. But sme u either improve productivity go iskandar or balik kampung ok.
You want more places in p1 schs. Ok we do it. Give u 40 places. See if u that lucky not lor!
You want no more psle stress. Ok we do it. Ala o level style. But people will still compare scores. And elitist top schs will still be so. How else to differentiate?
You want cheaper bto. Ok we do it. We maintain the expensive pricing (which will still hit everyone) but increase the subsidy (only select group will enjoy with many t n c attached).
You want to know how we fit the 6.9? Ok we tell you how. Clear the airbase and ports and build highrise all around u to block all ur precious silly fireworks views and then see if it helps to elevate your home prices while all the noisy and dirty and messy construction works go on the next 20 to 30 yrs. hey it is to raise our plot ratio and land value isnt it? En bloc anyone?
You want to be insured against huge medical bills forever? Ok we do it. U pay up more now while you are still working and not on your death bed. U will get less worry on your death bed about the huge medical bills. One less worry perhaps will rock you back to life from the dumps? At least paying your life savings away for medical coverage lessen burden on your children but hmmm i wonder how come i didnt have any property to leave to them after im gone. Oh no more money for those 'luxuries'. :(
So moral of the story? Lppl and continue sucking your thumbs daft sinkies.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U WISH FORI can look after myself, but can u remove CPF first?? :D
I can look after myself, but can u remove CPF first?? :D
can remove cpf, but can u surrender yr pink IC 1st? :D
can remove cpf, but can u surrender yr pink IC 1st? :D
I look after myself hor, I pay my own medical bill. so why u need my CPF? aiyah.... it's never ending
At least better than kpkb party that come out and say no population increase, more cheap housing, cheap medical, cheap everything and no need to pay. Really lead u to doom.
I look after myself hor, I pay my own medical bill. so why u need my CPF? aiyah.... it's never ending
I can save a better job den cpf leh ... y dun they let me manage my own $?
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
That means there are more ways to prove your value/worth, other than grades. This will help to nurture exceptional young people to develop their capabilities in areas other than grades, which in opinion has little relevance to success in adulthood.
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
Agree.
The stress comes from parents with unrealistic expectations for their kids. if the kid is not able to compete or keep up, why drag the whole system back to accomodate your own? this is a step back and sends a wrong message. this education tweak is nothing more than appeasing these loud complainants and vocal minority.
if we accept spore as an open society that welcomes the rest of world, then there will always be many others who will be far better. is either u step up or stay down.
Chiaberry, check this out
Onvo
http://www.organovo.com/
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ONVO+Basic+Chart&t=1y
Of course the px is more than double last year...
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Similar to astar???
Me not familiar w this...
Cheers
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
looking forward to primary school head prefect election. Actaully, I've heard of some.
So, one lession is not to anyhow complain. The more your complain, the more you pay and the more uncertainty you will face.
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
totally agree. at least the current system is transparent.
I can already foresee many CCA/ECA centers promoting packages with "DSA success rates". :doh:
phantom_opera
19-08-13, 15:33
...
You want to be insured against huge medical bills forever? Ok we do it. U pay up more now while you are still working and not on your death bed. U will get less worry on your death bed about the huge medical bills. One less worry perhaps will rock you back to life from the dumps? At least paying your life savings away for medical coverage lessen burden on your children but hmmm i wonder how come i didnt have any property to leave to them after im gone. Oh no more money for those 'luxuries'. :(
So moral of the story? Lppl and continue sucking your thumbs daft sinkies.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U WISH FOR
Singapore middle class is always LPPL ... increased medisave min sum to 100k will come in 10-15y now, by then CPF SA min sum = 250k, cpf MA min sum = 100k, husband 350k, wife 350k ... grand total of 700k stuck in annuity
I think better retire earlier, keep very healthy so u can outlive the break-even age of 80 .. otherwise your 700k is to subsidize those who live long long
The challenge is whether there is enough passive income in btn 55-65, unfortunately at 55, may parents have to fund children for their university and yet u cannot find high paying jobs anymore :scared-3:
Net net ...never sell your HDB until u are 65, at least can still rent out rooms for that 1.3m extra population!!! Now I expect resale HDB prices to chiong this way after PAP "sent out a clear signal"
Dr Ng Eng Hen was right, he told TPY resident that TPY HDB will only have ONE WAY TO GO ... UP UP UP UP UP UP
Chiaberry, check this out
Onvo
http://www.organovo.com/
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ONVO+Basic+Chart&t=1y
Of course the px is more than double last year...
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Similar to astar???
Me not familiar w this...
Cheers
Interesting one.
But me not so adventurous to go for those very novel technologies these days. You aren't sure when or if the company has overinflated their product/technology. Even the established big drug companies have been known to suppress certain info from their trials.
I would personally stick to the big established pharmaceutical companies. But I would not buy them at their peak. I would wait for bad bad news and price drop. Look at the P/E ratio, look at the dividend and if they look decent, then I will dabble.
But I don't have positions in US stocks because I have a headache to figure out the tax implications. I have some UK stocks because I have a tax position and accountant there to sort out these things. I do have some unit trusts in US stocks and worldwide equities though.
obviously u are biased but it has some truth in it
to remain competitive ... government has to offer more offices outside CBD i.e. JLD and Paya Lebar (I was initially wondering why Paya Lebar so small but Wee family is so keen in bidding .. sigh ... Old Wee is really cunning)
which are the plots they've been bidding on?
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
Stress ? Its self inflicted. Take what ever away or change will still feel stress coz? self inflicted.
"The only pressure I'm under is the pressure I've put on myself. "-Mark Messier
Agree.
The stress comes from parents with unrealistic expectations for their kids. if the kid is not able to compete or keep up, why drag the whole system back to accomodate your own? this is a step back and sends a wrong message. this education tweak is nothing more than appeasing these loud complainants and vocal minority.
if we accept spore as an open society that welcomes the rest of world, then there will always be many others who will be far better. is either u step up or stay down.
abolish complete education system go back to stone age. Then no stress lor..the parents got to get real. Its self inflicted. Can blame god, blame sky , blame government blame mother father.. its still the same.. coz self inflicted.
"The perfect no-stress environment is the grave." -Greg Anderson
which are the plots they've been bidding on?
at the junction of Sims Avenue and Tanjong Katong Road.
the infamous "rejected" UOL bid by the gov.
at the junction of Sims Avenue and Tanjong Katong Road.
the infamous "rejected" UOL bid by the gov.
I am glad that the government is working in favour of its people by rejecting that bid. So that more money is kept within the government than flowing to greedy developers.
DKSG
I am glad that the government is working in favour of its people by rejecting that bid. So that more money is kept within the government than flowing to greedy developers.
DKSG
So when everyone bid low because someone say "dangerous now"... the bids will be rejected??? IF rejected... This person who has one of the biggest land bank - you think will win????
Agreed.
Stress only comes from uncertainty, and they are creating uncertainty.
Now, they expand DSA, which is another uncertainty (certainty only for GEP kids. You go see those who got DSA in, most are just because they are GEP kids!).
In future, not only that you must either be a GEP kid, or score >270 in PSLE, or you must be super super good in sports so as to be be able to DSA using sports into the top schools, else just can't get in!
And anybody knows what are the criteria for DSA via sports/music/arts? No clear cut criteria right? Uncertainty again!
Looks like only high chance and certainty to get into the top sec schools is to get into GEP first (and thereafter don't have to compete anymore for PSLE & O level) :doh:
Those people who wish for "less stress" at PSLE. Now :doh: :doh: :doh:
There will be a new system of grading. Now the beast that we know for so long ("PSLE") will be replaced by another beast of unknown and untested attributes.
Don't you think there will be MORE stress? Because you are not sure where the line is drawn for getting into those top schools.
And students may have to spend more time doing extracurricular activities to beef up their "character development/leadership/etc" CVs.
phantom_opera
20-08-13, 21:44
Agreed.
Stress only comes from uncertainty, and they are creating uncertainty.
Now, they expand DSA, which is another uncertainty (certainty only for GEP kids. You go see those who got DSA in, most are just because they are GEP kids!).
In future, not only that you must either be a GEP kid, or score >270 in PSLE, or you must be super super good in sports so as to be be able to DSA using sports into the top schools, else just can't get in!
And anybody knows what are the criteria for DSA via sports/music/arts? No clear cut criteria right? Uncertainty again!
Looks like only high chance and certainty to get into the top sec schools is to get into GEP first (and thereafter don't have to compete anymore for PSLE & O level) :doh:
if they don't do it right, only the rich and connected will get DSA, the principal can recommend friend's son having "super leadership quality" to go through DSA ... :mad:
Only tax implication for investing in US stocks is you get taxed 30% for your dividends only.............
Interesting one.
But me not so adventurous to go for those very novel technologies these days. You aren't sure when or if the company has overinflated their product/technology. Even the established big drug companies have been known to suppress certain info from their trials.
I would personally stick to the big established pharmaceutical companies. But I would not buy them at their peak. I would wait for bad bad news and price drop. Look at the P/E ratio, look at the dividend and if they look decent, then I will dabble.
But I don't have positions in US stocks because I have a headache to figure out the tax implications. I have some UK stocks because I have a tax position and accountant there to sort out these things. I do have some unit trusts in US stocks and worldwide equities though.
While on the internet, found some people saying GEP programme is a white horse programme, there are the really bright kids accompanying princelings to study, is this true? :beats-me-man:
if they don't do it right, only the rich and connected will get DSA, the principal can recommend friend's son having "super leadership quality" to go through DSA ... :mad:
Originally Posted by teddybear
Agreed.
Stress only comes from uncertainty, and they are creating uncertainty.
Now, they expand DSA, which is another uncertainty (certainty only for GEP kids. You go see those who got DSA in, most are just because they are GEP kids!).
In future, not only that you must either be a GEP kid, or score >270 in PSLE, or you must be super super good in sports so as to be be able to DSA using sports into the top schools, else just can't get in!
And anybody knows what are the criteria for DSA via sports/music/arts? No clear cut criteria right? Uncertainty again!
Looks like only high chance and certainty to get into the top sec schools is to get into GEP first (and thereafter don't have to compete anymore for PSLE & O level) :doh:
While on the internet, found some people saying GEP programme is a white horse programme, there are the really bright kids accompanying princelings to study, is this true? :beats-me-man:
Originally Posted by teddybear
Agreed.
Stress only comes from uncertainty, and they are creating uncertainty.
Now, they expand DSA, which is another uncertainty (certainty only for GEP kids. You go see those who got DSA in, most are just because they are GEP kids!).
In future, not only that you must either be a GEP kid, or score >270 in PSLE, or you must be super super good in sports so as to be be able to DSA using sports into the top schools, else just can't get in!
And anybody knows what are the criteria for DSA via sports/music/arts? No clear cut criteria right? Uncertainty again!
Looks like only high chance and certainty to get into the top sec schools is to get into GEP first (and thereafter don't have to compete anymore for PSLE & O level) :doh:
we will never know, unless there is wikileaks.. :D :D
but i dont think this is a white horse program la.. still have abit of faith in pap.
it depend on the integrity of the principal leow... there is bound to be some rotten apple among so many of them.
we will never know, unless there is wikileaks.. :D :D
but i dont think this is a white horse program la.. still have abit of faith in pap.
it depend on the integrity of the principal leow... there is bound to be some rotten apple among so many of them.
I also don't think this is a white horse program. A few of the Ministers'/high-ranking PAP members' sons are in my sons' schools and they are not in GEP.
phantom_opera
25-08-13, 20:21
I think PAP is making a bold gamble ... instead of focus on "progressily getting it less wrong", they want to focus on "getting it right"
But the EVIL is in the detail yet to be published
All the wrong things now published in the media as discussion about education / healthcare intensified after PM's speech:
1. High childcare cost of Little Skool NTUC childcare ... every year up 100
2. Skeptism about whether proposed changes to PSLE will increase stress or lower stress
3. Expensive overseas trips organized by Singapore schools
4. Complaints about CCA and DSA
Frankly speaking .... I think MOE is better off focusing on "progressily getting it less wrong" ... things like banning announcement of top PSLE students are minor tweaks in the right direction
Allthepies
25-08-13, 21:07
Our education system is doing a wonderful job in imparting academic knowledge, however in term of teaching the right mindset, attitude, values, behaviors, life skills, it has failed miserably... Look at the increasing large pool of young and fortunate yet unhappy Singaporeans with little drive to solve any problem they encounter, preferring to complain and complain... :doh: :doh:
Maybe it has something to do with kiasu parents.... :doh: :doh:
http://therealsingapore.com/content/hdb-construction-costs-revealed
https://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turnerandtownsend.com%2FTT_ICC_Report_Single_Pages_j98uI.pdf.file&ei=5W0XUqH1C4vzrQeh-4HoDw&usg=AFQjCNFxMqweMRxY1LKOadozKh8Nm2B2Vw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.bmk
Our education system is doing a wonderful job in imparting academic knowledge, however in term of teaching the right mindset, attitude, values, behaviors, life skills, it has failed miserably... Look at the increasing large pool of young and fortunate yet unhappy Singaporeans with little drive to solve any problem they encounter, preferring to complain and complain... :doh: :doh:
Maybe it has something to do with kiasu parents.... :doh: :doh:
Regardless of teaching, it will always be like this...
20 percent leaders leading the 80% followers...
Which country has 80% leaders and 20% followers??:confused: :confused:
http://therealsingapore.com/content/hdb-construction-costs-revealed
https://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turnerandtownsend.com%2FTT_ICC_Report_Single_Pages_j98uI.pdf.file&ei=5W0XUqH1C4vzrQeh-4HoDw&usg=AFQjCNFxMqweMRxY1LKOadozKh8Nm2B2Vw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.bmk
HDB costs should include cost of constructing neighbourhood parks, roads and other facilities and financing costs. These are not factored into the simplistic figures in the website.
HDB costs should include cost of constructing neighbourhood parks, roads and other facilities and financing costs. These are not factored into the simplistic figures in the website.
They dont give a damn to the true picture one.
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