View Full Version : Why property price is still holding??
phantom_opera
17-09-13, 17:19
【iMoney智富雜誌—置業安居】近來大量名人都出來說，樓價將大跌，但是二手樓成交依然一片死寂，現時地產代理面對最大的困境是，沒有多少個業主願意賣樓。
為甚麼業主不賣樓？是不信這些財經界的名人的預測？
筆者估計，該是半信半疑吧！近來不少業主朋友都問我同一個問題：「該不該賣樓？」筆者反問他們：「賣了樓，如何處理賣樓套現的資金？」
不知怎處理所得資金
是的，筆者相信樓市二手市場之所以一片死寂，其中一個很重要的原因是，業主們不知如何處理賣樓所得的大筆現金。在現金有出路前，一動不如一靜，坐以觀察，人人如此，持有物業不賣，二手成交自然少，樓價也不易下跌。
香港土地註冊處公布，今年7月二手樓宇買賣平均價格再創新高，最新的中原城市領先指數（CCL）也再度升上120點水平，創5周新高，與2月時政府推出雙倍印花稅（DSD）前的123點，只差一點點。
或者說，從今年2月至今，CCL一直都在120點的水平上下浮動，升跌不過5%，指數走勢橫行半年以上，短期看不出會有大突破，不論是向上或是向下。
樓房的業主分幾種，一種是自住的、一種是投資者、一種是投機者。投資者又可分大投資者及小投資者，這幾種人賣樓的思考模式、考慮因素是不同的。
自住的業主，賣樓的原因只有兩個，一是欠了周身債，不得不賣樓，二是想樓換樓，第一種不多，可遇不可求，如果你想買樓而遇上這種人，你是幸運兒。因為可以大膽還價，極可能買到跳樓貨。而樓換樓者要考慮很多問題，其中最令他們不安的是：他們的單位很可能是早期買入，賣出時不必付任何額外印花稅。
但是再買時，就受政府的三辣招所限，而且賣出後，手上無物業，心中不踏實。租樓付房租就覺得在替別人供樓，而且會犯上「主觀上希望樓價跌」的分析盲點，影響自己的分析力。
想來想去，問題不少，因此想樓換樓的人暫時也不換樓了，繼續觀望。
現以投資者放盤為主
目前在市場上放盤的業主，以投資者為主，傳媒報道大量富豪在賣豪宅，這些富豪放盤的豪宅不是自住的，是用來投資的。自從買家印花稅（BSD）推出後，內地的買家大量減少，豪宅的確不易賣，價格也的確在下跌。
富豪放盤套利是很自然的事，但是數量依然有限，小小的投資者仍不知賣樓套現後，如何處理大筆現金，傾向不賣。
至於投機者，不談也罷，額外印花稅在2010年11月推出，至今近3年，投機者早已絕。
撰文：曾淵滄
very simple. land bids and prices are ever increasing. how can proprety price drop then?
very simple. land bids and prices are ever increasing. how can proprety price drop then?
With the new TDSR measures, affordability would take a hit, property prices will drop, we are at the pivot point now....the effects will be felt later.
With the new TDSR measures, affordability would take a hit, property prices will drop, we are at the pivot point now....the effects will be felt later.
Small PCs below $800k (1 to 2 bedders) and ECs will benefit from TDSR. Developers will switch to selling smaller units. The U-turn of a big developer at its Bishan new launch is a sign of things to come.
Small PCs below $800k (1 to 2 bedders) and ECs will benefit from TDSR. Developers will switch to selling smaller units. The U-turn of a big developer at its Bishan new launch is a sign of things to come.
There can only be so much demand for small PCs as there are family space concerns.
actually see a few start to slash price and price more willing to nego
actually see a few start to slash price and price more willing to nego
Slash now before the prices go lower.
Master BJ has pointed out a only way for property prices to really drop significantly: a CRASH in economy.
TDSR may lead to some moderation, but do not expect a crash. The longer one waits, the less the impact of TDSR.
sorry, but property prices aren't dropping, they had been and are still creeping slowly.
quantum may be dropping but that's because of a reduction in property sizes in general. nowadays, new 4BR sizes range from 900-1100+sqft :doh:
if land prices keep going up, i don't see how on earth will property prices drop, unless all the property developers turn into social enterprises,
sorry, but property prices aren't dropping, they had been and are still creeping slowly.
quantum may be dropping but that's because of a reduction in property sizes in general. nowadays, new 4BR sizes range from 900-1100+sqft :doh:
if land prices keep going up, i don't see how on earth will property prices drop, unless all the property developers turn into social enterprises,
There are some real discounts at some launches caught by the TDSR.
There are some real discounts at some launches caught by the TDSR.
I feel tat more discount on the way gg fwd wif more launches coming up & lesser take up rate during soft launch.
I feel tat more discount on the way gg fwd wif more launches coming up & lesser take up rate during soft launch.
You can tell market is going down, as most agents these days getting more SMS blasts among themselves to help sell new property launches, a sure sign that the pool of buyers are drying up and everyone needs everyone's help to sell.
In the good old days, such blasts were rare as all agents wanted to deal direct with buyers, no sharing of commissions.
You can tell market is going down, as most agents these days getting more SMS blasts among themselves to help sell new property launches, a sure sign that the pool of buyers are drying up and everyone needs everyone's help to sell.
In the good old days, such blasts were rare as all agents wanted to deal direct with buyers, no sharing of commissions.
when new launches cant sell, developers hv no choose but to lower their bids. wats the point of bidding unrealistically & get the land yet ended up unable to sell them eventually?
how much is, then, the discount? did the entire property market take a dip? even during boom time, there will be some forced/fire sales due to individual unfortunate events, but that hardly constitutes to a market decline
when new launches cant sell, developers hv no choose but to lower their bids. wats the point of bidding unrealistically & get the land yet ended up unable to sell them eventually?
i was of the view too, like most, that the market should be slowing down to a standstill but look at fraser's bid @ yishun.
i was of the view too, like most, that the market should be slowing down to a standstill but look at fraser's bid @ yishun.
tat one overbid by so much more is clearly a lack of experience & understanding of one's competitors la! :doh:
But I believe tat 人不会做亏本生意. Ultimately developers will tink, issit worser to hv no biz (becos bid too low cannot get land) or losses (bid land/price lauches too high unable to sell)?
i was of the view too, like most, that the market should be slowing down to a standstill but look at fraser's bid @ yishun.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Everyone makes mistakes.
look at trilinq & sky habitat for eg of the more recent cases.
in the end who pays for the mistakes?
developers or buyers? :D
tat one overbid by so much more is clearly a lack of experience & understanding of one's competitors la! :doh:
But I believe tat 人不会做亏本生意. Ultimately developers will tink, issit worser to hv no biz (becos bid too low cannot get land) or losses (bid land/price lauches too high unable to sell)?
whether it is a mistake or lack of experience, it still doesn't negate the fact that land costs went up, which eventually transfers to buyers.
assuming that fraser doesn't want to take a hit on its profits and prices in the same amount of margin, the property development will set the price ceiling in Yishun. hence my argument - as long as land prices keep rising, there is no way that property prices will crash
It is no brainer. The only reason to buy now is interest rate. Other than first timer buying to stay which gong gong investor want to buy with so many CMs.
whether it is a mistake or lack of experience, it still doesn't negate the fact that land costs went up, which eventually transfers to buyers.
assuming that fraser doesn't want to take a hit on its profits and prices in the same amount of margin, the property development will set the price ceiling in Yishun. hence my argument - as long as land prices keep rising, there is no way that property prices will crash
u see huh, as buyers we do not nid to succumb to the nonsense from developers. in fact, TDSR help developers to wake up from their mentality tat buyers will always the suckers for ridiculous bids.
some developers may still choose to bid high. it's their business, their choice; there is always better launches for buyers to consider & compare.
one gd example now is Sky Vue vs The Glades. Selling at similar psf, both near mrt. Take yr pick.
Screw the discounts lah.
Just compare the effective psf of caveats lodged for:
mickey mouse sold earlier vs mickey mouse for sale now
1 bedder sold earlier vs 1 bedder for sale now
2 bedder sold earlier vs 2 bedder for sale now
3 bedder sold earlier vs 3 bedder for sale now
3+S bedder sold earlier vs 3+S bedder for sale now
4 bedder sold earlier vs 4 bedder for sale now
Or if you want to be anal
Same area sold earlier vs same area sold now (since a 4 bedder now is equivalent to a 3 bedder sold in the earlier years)
Discounts just allow developers/ agents to obfuscate the effective psf.
It is no brainer. The only reason to buy now is interest rate. Other than first timer buying to stay which gong gong investor want to buy with so many CMs.
I think is demand that is supporting the price.
If u can profit from it, then high interest rate is no issue.
But if u can't make money, zero interest also nobody want to buy.
:confused::confused::confused:
Discount? Hope you don't grumble when TOP your PC looks not much different from BTO or even.....
I think is demand that is supporting the price.
If u can profit from it, then high interest rate is no issue.
But if u can't make money, zero interest also nobody want to buy.
:confused::confused::confused:
Are you saying that with 7% & 10% ABSD can only sell 4 years later can make money or good rental yield. Can share any project as eg?
The reason price still holding because sellers still can hold because of interest rate. Show me any sold out project recently
propertyguru
18-09-13, 11:43
Are you saying that with 7% & 10% ABSD can only sell 4 years later can make money or good rental yield. Can share any project as eg?
The reason price still holding because sellers still can hold because of interest rate. Show me any sold out project recently
You are right that the CMs have taken out many of the older investors. However, anecdotally, I have several friends in their late 20s and early 30s who are not married but are buying their first properties as an investment. They don't have plans to get married in the next few years, and see property as a safe investment.
The CMs haven't taken these investors out, so there's still demand. Not as big as before, but certainly there is some demand which has yet to be killed off.
Are you saying that with 7% & 10% ABSD can only sell 4 years later can make money or good rental yield. Can share any project as eg?
The reason price still holding because sellers still can hold because of interest rate. Show me any sold out project recently
wif interest rates increasing, only the cash fit investors can ride the storm safely :D
Are you saying that with 7% & 10% ABSD can only sell 4 years later can make money or good rental yield. Can share any project as eg?
The reason price still holding because sellers still can hold because of interest rate. Show me any sold out project recently
Then why are these ppl still buying???
There's still demand out there lor. abit slower
Y are developers still bidding at the current price or higher.
Who are they selling to if u say there is no demand???
Interest rate is only one part but demand is the main reason, IMO
Btw, Ppl buying now may not be selling 4yrs later
Maybe let me put it clear. I am not debating whether there is demand or not. Otherwise developer & agent already eat grass.
What I am trying to say there are no more incentives for investors to go in. Don't talk to me those got money no where to spend and don't mind 10 years later make money. If you call these investors, I got nothing to say.
Maybe let me put it clear. I am not debating whether there is demand or not. Otherwise developer & agent already eat grass.
What I am trying to say there are no more incentives for investors to go in. Don't talk to me those got money no where to spend and don't mind 10 years later make money. If you call these investors, I got nothing to say.
I agree. More for owner occupier now
The govt has weed out most of the speculative investor.
The CM is in place to prevent the specu bubble.
if the influx slow down or stop,
then prices will really correct/collapse
u see huh, as buyers we do not nid to succumb to the nonsense from developers. in fact, TDSR help developers to wake up from their mentality tat buyers will always the suckers for ridiculous bids.
some developers may still choose to bid high. it's their business, their choice; there is always better launches for buyers to consider & compare.
one gd example now is Sky Vue vs The Glades. Selling at similar psf, both near mrt. Take yr pick.
these are different issues. even with the launch of sky vue, is capitaland dropping their asking price for sky habitat? no and hence, sky habitat still forms the ceiling of asking prices in the vicinity.
Just my opinion...
the day when u see coe price crashing down.. maybe is the day ppty price will even drop slowly...
Car= luxury item.. if pp still flock to the showrooms and putting down their spare cash to buy cars.. i dun see why these pp cannot tahan their prized ppty investments...
:rolleyes:
Property Price is now holding because developers are trying to hold it.. It is not so much about restricting the loan of buyers that will control the property price. It is restricting the loan to developer that will control the property price. Once the developer is unable to get hold of loans, you can see property price tumbling down like no tomorrow
Apart from developer bidding price on land, it's the buyers who determines the market direction.
Buyer funding of ppty mainly from loan n disposal of ppty, these 2 r link to COV n bank IPA amount a buyer can fund their next purchase.
I have seen comments for property price to drop or crash since 2003. LOL
I have seen comments for property price to drop or crash since 2003. LOL
2008 Lehman crisis not a drop then what?
Property Price is now holding because developers are trying to hold it.. It is not so much about restricting the loan of buyers that will control the property price.
it is all in a cycle. if buyers cannot get a loan, regardless of how fantastic yr project is, volume will drop.
when supply > demand & there is intense competition across projects, prices will definitely face pressure & moderately accordingly to the forces of market. It is not a matter of who wan to hold/control the prices.
these are different issues. even with the launch of sky vue, is capitaland dropping their asking price for sky habitat? no and hence, sky habitat still forms the ceiling of asking prices in the vicinity.
If developers reduce the $ of SH substantially, they hv to consider the detrimental effects to their reputation.
2008 Lehman crisis not a drop then what?
Price did not drop much even in lehman brother crisis that is so bad that took the world down. Even bought property in 2005, price did not even drop to that level. In those days cooling measures were rare or none and price did not drop much even during the worst 2008 crisis.
Now with cm7 or cm8, cm until i also blur, it will need a bigger than lehman brother or US mortgage crisis to take it down by 30%.
Proplive123
18-09-13, 14:49
No doubt that especially Pte Prop price can hold firm cause by lots of readily HDB upgraders either waiting MOP expiry or sell off their current HDB. Condo living aspiration nowadays is became norm for some illegible.
Price did not drop much even in lehman brother crisis that is so bad that took the world down. Even bought property in 2005, price did not even drop to that level. In those days cooling measures were rare or none and price did not drop much even during the worst 2008 crisis.
Now with cm7 or cm8, cm until i also blur, it will need a bigger than lehman brother or US mortgage crisis to take it down by 30%.
One reason could be the 1 million imports:rolleyes:
2008 Lehman crisis not a drop then what?
Now with so many cooling measures,
it is even harder for PRICE TO DROP hehehehe
I wonder how it felt like to the investors who are facing their money stucked in illiquid properties, say for 30 years?
Assuming now prices already peaked, and with higher risks of prices moving down. whatelse? try making up the differences with rental income?
TravieJackie
18-09-13, 18:58
I agree. More for owner occupier now
The govt has weed out most of the speculative investor.
The CM is in place to prevent the specu bubble.
if the influx slow down or stop,
then prices will really correct/collapse
Agree with this thought too.
There's still demand from owner occupy units. CMs are here to stabilise price. Even if there's a dip in a the next few yrs or so, it wont go down much before shooting up again.
Prices did drop drastically in '98 Financial Crisis and Sin govt were not that prepared to handle that and the property index barely recovered to '96 peak even after more than 10 years.
When prices drop in 2008 Lehman Bank crisis, the govt seems to be all ready in the way they roll out the stimulus to support the economy. The prices recovered rather quickly, index recovered in less than 2 years, largely due to the support from HDB housing which I believe has been the fiscal tool to control the property market then. The rise in prop prices since '09 were largely allowed in order to stimulate the economy which can be seen to reflect good governance politically. However, the fear of runaway prices sank in when effect of the QEs speculating on assets here were felt. The CMs were initially targeted at Speculation then Foreign buyers/funds and eventually local investors and why is that so? because they are not going to let prop prices go up significantly anymore
Price did not drop much even in lehman brother crisis that is so bad that took the world down. Even bought property in 2005, price did not even drop to that level. In those days cooling measures were rare or none and price did not drop much even during the worst 2008 crisis.
Now with cm7 or cm8, cm until i also blur, it will need a bigger than lehman brother or US mortgage crisis to take it down by 30%.
Office Boy got the same comment to make ...
If you have been to the showflats, you will know why prices are not going to go down anytime soon.
You will also know why cooling measures are required.
DKSG
invigorated
18-09-13, 23:48
Office Boy got the same comment to make ...
If you have been to the showflats, you will know why prices are not going to go down anytime soon.
You will also know why cooling measures are required.
DKSG
how about the resale market? have noticed some units selling below valuation now..
would the tdsr hit the resale market first as it's a double whammy with the absd slapped on it? at least developers can hit back with discounts to compensate absd. a few units I've been following have dropped prices. do a check, you'll be surprised.
TravieJackie
19-09-13, 09:24
Yes, resale has been hit more I think. Most still tend towards new houses witht he current high prices.
For myself, I prefer resale due to the space. New houses are simply too small and cramp for my liking these days. :doh:
QE tapering is not coming so soon as annouced by Fed last night. More property sales this weekend.:cheers1:
how about the resale market? have noticed some units selling below valuation now..
would the tdsr hit the resale market first as it's a double whammy with the absd slapped on it? at least developers can hit back with discounts to compensate absd. a few units I've been following have dropped prices. do a check, you'll be surprised.
There are also some resales units asking for more than 5% than the last transaction. If you do not believe, check Heritage View and the anchorage.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:14
..... The CMs were initially targeted at Speculation then Foreign buyers/funds and eventually local investors and why is that so? because they are not going to let prop prices go up significantly anymore
You are right. This is the same message I get when I dissect the CM and study carefully. It only means that no more earning lucrative returns by flipping in properties here anymore.
Just look at the SSD, can you buy and then sell a year later ? No
Can you buy an uncompleted project and do subsales like before ? No
Can you borrow to tide on the ups and downs cycle ? No
If you have only one residential property, can you buy another investment unit? No unless you pay ABSD
What does all these mean and what is the message ?
Ans: It is very clear that all the CMs are targetted at the investment vehicles of investors like me, so no more earning big bucks from property. I am now going to open a shop in CCR and sell garan-guni stuffs until they remove the CMs- if they ever, that is.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:17
It is also very obvious that FED is watching this forum. You can see how they try to counter all my postings. I said Summers next chair, Summers resigned. I said no QE, they say more QE. I say likely Syria battle, they say no battle.
Indeed I am the most feared Illuminati of this century.
Good Luck on that too.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:19
You are right. This is the same message I get when I dissect the CM and study carefully. It only means that no more earning lucrative returns by flipping in properties here anymore.
Just look at the SSD, can you buy and then sell a year later ? No
Can you buy an uncompleted project and do subsales like before ? No
Can you borrow to tide on the ups and downs cycle ? No
If you have only one residential property, can you buy another investment unit? No unless you pay ABSD
What does all these mean and what is the message ?
Ans: It is very clear that all the CMs are targetted at the investment vehicles of investors like me, so no more earning big bucks from property. I am now going to open a shop in CCR and sell garan-guni stuffs until they remove the CMs- if they ever, that is.
Good Luck.
If this is indeed the objective. I see more CMs coming in other forms if the prices continue upwards.
Good luck, carry on shouting Rocket. See how you sabotage yourselves later.
People are rushing to buy cars now.
You are right. This is the same message I get when I dissect the CM and study carefully. It only means that no more earning lucrative returns by flipping in properties here anymore.
Just look at the SSD, can you buy and then sell a year later ? No
Can you buy an uncompleted project and do subsales like before ? No
Can you borrow to tide on the ups and downs cycle ? No
If you have only one residential property, can you buy another investment unit? No unless you pay ABSD
What does all these mean and what is the message ?
Ans: It is very clear that all the CMs are targetted at the investment vehicles of investors like me, so no more earning big bucks from property. I am now going to open a shop in CCR and sell garan-guni stuffs until they remove the CMs- if they ever, that is.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:21
If I the greatest ILLUMINATI borrows money from you, I would really hope you will be in big trouble.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:23
People are rushing to buy cars now.
Yes indeed. The mortals are indeed stupid. They buy cars not because of convenience, but more to show off. The transport here already so well developed, why spend money on cars? Unless of course, they are saying they are as rich as me.
Especially property agents who show off their BMW 5 series to me, not knowing I have one lambo and one Bentley at home.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:27
Imagine if the whole forum followed me to shout CRASH. We would not be in this situation now, would we. Now it is all too late liao. Just like USA, borrow too much liao...no return liao... keep on pumping and pumping and pumping and you got an even BIGGER BUBBLE. A slowly inflating bubble is worse than a one shot bubble.
Yes indeed. The mortals are indeed stupid. They buy cars not because of convenience, but more to show off. The transport here already so well developed, why spend money on cars? Unless of course, they are saying they are as rich as me.
Especially property agents who show off their BMW 5 series to me, not knowing I have one lambo and one Bentley at home.
Good Luck.
aren't u equally as eager to show off as those who r not as rich?
who says tat less rich cannot haolian? :doh:
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:28
If I the greatest ILLUMINATI borrows money from you, I would really hope you will be in big trouble.
Good Luck.
How so?
So you will end up borrowing money from me instead.
GET IT ? DRILL THIS INTO YOUR TINY BRAIN.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:29
aren't u equally as eager to show off as those who r not as rich?
who says tat less rich cannot haolian? :doh:
You got it wrong liao as usual. You ask your car dealer friends who are bosses then see what you can conclude.
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 10:31
You see, my business networks span far and wide. From factories, to landlords, to retailers to shops owners and what have you.
A Comment from Business insider:
Only one thing needs to happen on Sep 18, 10:24 PM said:
Hell will have to freeze over before you ever see any tapering whatsoever.
What people don't realize is the FEd has lost all credibility and all control, and now has to continue QE to the very end - that is, all the way until our currency collapses and some new currency is issued.
I know that no one will believe this and many haters will criticize this, but those people don't understand math, and exponential debt growth, and how even 100% taxation cannot over come the debt growth and government's promises.
You see, my business networks span far and wide. From factories, to landlords, to retailers to shops owners and what have you.
I have YOUTH
muahahahahahahhaahahha
1 trait beats all :D
A Comment from Business insider:
Only one thing needs to happen on Sep 18, 10:24 PM said:
Hell will have to freeze over before you ever see any tapering whatsoever.
What people don't realize is the FEd has lost all credibility and all control, and now has to continue QE to the very end - that is, all the way until our currency collapses and some new currency is issued.
I know that no one will believe this and many haters will criticize this, but those people don't understand math, and exponential debt growth, and how even 100% taxation cannot over come the debt growth and government's promises.
although US unemployment rate is dwindling, it is still not at Fed's target of 7%. on a global outlook, Europe and China data aren't promising. it's a prudent move cos' pulling the QE plug prematurely on a heavily sedated world economy may just set it back to 'critical-care' mode
I have YOUTH
muahahahahahahhaahahha
1 trait beats all :D
Youth is a liability in property market. Means you don't have money and also you start late.
My father's time he never took more than 5 year loan in his whole life, he shakes his head when he see me sign for 30 year loans.....youth good?
Youth is a liability in property market. Means you don't have money and also you start late.
tis is not necc true. my ratio of cash to debt is 1:1.
My father's time he never took more than 5 year loan in his whole life, he shakes his head when he see me sign for 30 year loans.....youth good?
Me oni took 15 yrs loan.
tats becos yr dad dunno how to leverage.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 11:27
A Comment from Business insider:
Only one thing needs to happen on Sep 18, 10:24 PM said:
Hell will have to freeze over before you ever see any tapering whatsoever.
What people don't realize is the FEd has lost all credibility and all control, and now has to continue QE to the very end - that is, all the way until our currency collapses and some new currency is issued.
I know that no one will believe this and many haters will criticize this, but those people don't understand math, and exponential debt growth, and how even 100% taxation cannot over come the debt growth and government's promises.
This proves that we are all on the same platform. Fed is doing what it is trying to do: reduce market uncertainty. Since the market wants more QE, so FED simply gives more.
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 11:28
I would not be surprised FED is also monitoring this forum and what you all says and thinking.
Remember how early this year, someone exposed the US spying on the Internet?
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 11:42
When I was a young kid. I discovered my deceased grandpa pasted a manual with an angmo crest on it under a briefcase. Although I did not understand the English words on the manual, I took the book and kept it in my piggy safe nevertheless.
Many years later after finishing my O levels, when I opened this book entitled " SECRET OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY AND NEW WORLD ORDER". I got my THIRD EYE opened as well.
(TO BE CONTINUED )
blackjack21trader
19-09-13, 11:44
Ben, I know you are reading this.
proud owner
19-09-13, 18:28
Yes indeed. The mortals are indeed stupid. They buy cars not because of convenience, but more to show off. The transport here already so well developed, why spend money on cars? Unless of course, they are saying they are as rich as me.
Especially property agents who show off their BMW 5 series to me, not knowing I have one lambo and one Bentley at home.
Good Luck.
bro it is people like you buying cars and keep at home and waste and hoard 2 COEs while those who needs the COE had to bid higher ...
walkthetiger
19-09-13, 19:18
bro it is people like you buying cars and keep at home and waste and hoard 2 COEs while those who needs the COE had to bid higher ...
For people who need a car, they should go after cat A COE...right? :)
puffer_fish
19-09-13, 19:33
The monies meant for my last purchase has just shrunk today,:doh:
Ben, I know you are reading this.
Yes! I am watching you since your words so big. Head also bigger than mine. Waiting for you to take over my job.
phantom_opera
19-09-13, 21:16
Goldman Pushes Back Forecast On First Taper To December, First Rate Hike To 2016: FOMC Q&A
=> SIBOR 0.4% until 2016 :scared-1::eek::banghead::scared-3::doh:
Isn't is scary? Nothing is fundamental and real anymore. Not the love (no money no honey), not the beauty (plastic surgery), certainly not the economy.
Goldman Pushes Back Forecast On First Taper To December, First Rate Hike To 2016: FOMC Q&A
=> SIBOR 0.4% until 2016 :scared-1::eek::banghead::scared-3::doh:
paisei, what about SOR until 2016 huh ? :ashamed1:
phantom_opera
19-09-13, 21:56
SIBOR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NN3o6nNxYfs
Marc Faber: We are in QE unlimited
In 2010, Janet Yellen said she'd vote for negative interest rates. Marc Faber says she'll make Bernanke look like a hawk. #doom
Oh no ... I am stuck with too much banana money :(
phantom_opera
19-09-13, 22:05
I bet this index might hit a new high soon
http://hk.centadata.com/cci/images/ccli_chart.png
SIBOR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NN3o6nNxYfs
Marc Faber: We are in QE unlimited
In 2010, Janet Yellen said she'd vote for negative interest rates. Marc Faber says she'll make Bernanke look like a hawk. #doom
Oh no ... I am stuck with too much banana money :(
Ok leverage to the max that TDSR allows :D
phantom_opera
19-09-13, 22:20
2009 to 2016, 7年之殃
sob sob
2009 to 2016, 7年之殃
sob sob
Why r u sobbing?
Why r u sobbing?
Cos he has too much cash on hand and they are depreciating like mad.
Cos he has too much cash on hand and they are depreciating like mad.
Oh, I see. He didn't buy any property the last few years? Should have, the terrace I bought in 2010 doubled in value in 3 years!
Coz his kopi at yakun going to be $2 soon.
Low interest until 2016? Good for property owners!
2009 to 2016, 7年之殃
sob sob
Low interest until 2016? Good for property owners!
SOR Sibor might be low, but bank might still increase their spread.
SOR Sibor might be low, but bank might still increase their spread.
That's the trend though its slowing. Banks can't afford to jack too much since vol is down
tis is not necc true. my ratio of cash to debt is 1:1.
Me oni took 15 yrs loan.
tats becos yr dad dunno how to leverage.
Five year loan and keep buying and selling factories, I think he did pretty well leveraging wise, balancing opportunity and risk, this is prudence and allowed him to invest even in the worst of times, leveraging is only good during good times.
walkthetiger
20-09-13, 08:55
That's the trend though its slowing. Banks can't afford to jack too much since vol is down
2009 to 2016, 7年之殃
...appears inevitable....hah
phantom_opera
20-09-13, 09:17
中殃淫行
Yellenomics
Abenomics
how about the resale market? have noticed some units selling below valuation now..
would the tdsr hit the resale market first as it's a double whammy with the absd slapped on it? at least developers can hit back with discounts to compensate absd. a few units I've been following have dropped prices. do a check, you'll be surprised.
previously, biggest beauty of BUC compared to resale is that you have time to wait out the 4 yrs SSD. of coz with 7% ABSD now here, even that category of investors have been weeded out.
中殃淫行
Yellenomics
Abenomics
华而奸！！！！！！！！！！！
previously, biggest beauty of BUC compared to resale is that you have time to wait out the 4 yrs SSD. of coz with 7% ABSD now here, even that category of investors have been weeded out.
Bro, the beauty of ABSD is - there is hope for people to upgrade to PRIVATE....
Can you imagine if they remove ABSD, how many here in this forum will start buying private again?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
Of course, this people can "give" to the kids in the future, right???? But what about those who do not have "rich" folks... They will be priced out of the game rite?????
I personally feel the govt is doing the right thing taking care of the younger generation and allowing them a chance and hope to buy a private....
Picture yourself as a 20+ working and the prices (without AbSD) sky rocket and out of reach for you in the future.... And you see a few of your friends have "rich" folks who bot private for them... How would you feel....????
We need to care for others as well rite??? If not all the bright future generation will just pack up and leave....
Cheers bro....:D:D:D:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
A Comment from Business insider:
Only one thing needs to happen on Sep 18, 10:24 PM said:
Hell will have to freeze over before you ever see any tapering whatsoever.
What people don't realize is the FEd has lost all credibility and all control, and now has to continue QE to the very end - that is, all the way until our currency collapses and some new currency is issued.
I know that no one will believe this and many haters will criticize this, but those people don't understand math, and exponential debt growth, and how even 100% taxation cannot over come the debt growth and government's promises.
This is call '' Printing all lives to Hell'':hell-hath-no-fury:
Bro, the beauty of ABSD is - there is hope for people to upgrade to PRIVATE....
Can you imagine if they remove ABSD, how many here in this forum will start buying private again?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
bro, i never see buying a bigger house (by selling the smaller house) an upgrade... you only upgrade in style but in reality your wallet becomes smaller. i am fortunate to be able to buy a 2nd house, but if i had not been, i would rather stay put in my nice 4-rm hdb flat, than to pay my nose off servicing the loan on a pte condo. anyway that's just me lah.
but objectively speaking, agree that this levels the playing field for more pple.
bro, i never see buying a bigger house (by selling the smaller house) an upgrade... you only upgrade in style but in reality your wallet becomes smaller. i am fortunate to be able to buy a 2nd house, but if i had not been, i would rather stay put in my nice 4-rm hdb flat, than to pay my nose off servicing the loan on a pte condo. anyway that's just me lah.
but objectively speaking, agree that this levels the playing field for more pple.
Bro, you are the WISE one.... Spend below your means and retirement becomes a reality and easier....
If everyone like you.... No more upgrade leh....
Look at the number of bmw, merc, etc..... Many want for show leh.... Thats the aspiration....
:D:D:D:D:D:D:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Bro, you are the WISE one.... Spend below your means and retirement becomes a reality and easier....
If everyone like you.... No more upgrade leh....
Look at the number of bmw, merc, etc..... Many want for show leh.... Thats the aspiration....
:D:D:D:D:D:D:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Retirement is really a very nice stage of life ...
The earlier you reach this stage, the nicer life is.
There are some caveats (T&Cs) though.
Eg. You must realize that money is not everything.
Wishing everyone in this forum retire early and lead a happy and interesting life !
DKSG
Bro, the beauty of ABSD is - there is hope for people to upgrade to PRIVATE....
Can you imagine if they remove ABSD, how many here in this forum will start buying private again?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
Of course, this people can "give" to the kids in the future, right???? But what about those who do not have "rich" folks... They will be priced out of the game rite?????
I personally feel the govt is doing the right thing taking care of the younger generation and allowing them a chance and hope to buy a private....
Picture yourself as a 20+ working and the prices (without AbSD) sky rocket and out of reach for you in the future.... And you see a few of your friends have "rich" folks who bot private for them... How would you feel....????
We need to care for others as well rite??? If not all the bright future generation will just pack up and leave....
Cheers bro....:D:D:D:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
hah hah.. u say give chance to upgrade. pple will kpkb say wat upgrade.? upgrade is provided I pay same price get private home that is bigger then is call a upgrade?!
pay more n still smaller size!! its a downgrade.. ABSD is not helping ah!!!!
people want ah kong give everyone a private at cheap cheap cost!
Retirement is really a very nice stage of life ...
The earlier you reach this stage, the nicer life is.
There are some caveats (T&Cs) though.
Eg. You must realize that money is not everything.
Wishing everyone in this forum retire early and lead a happy and interesting life !
DKSG
its a state of mind.
hah hah.. u say give chance to upgrade. pple will kpkb say wat upgrade.? upgrade is provided I pay same price get private home that is bigger then is call a upgrade?!
pay more n still smaller size!! its a downgrade.. ABSD is not helping ah!!!!
people want ah kong give everyone a private at cheap cheap cost!
In every society, there will be people kpkb one. Which society got no noise?
It is very difficult for the government to tell people that "sorry folks, you didnt make it to the top xx% of the society, suck it in man!" right ?
So they can only provide a hope.
What we need to understand is how these aspirations drive property prices, study the demand and supply, understand the ground feel, and hopefully can make some pocket money from these.
Hmmm ... dont say also forgot, today Bosses not around - offsite meeting - I can go visit some showflats after lunch !!!
DKSG
Retirement is really a very nice stage of life ...
The earlier you reach this stage, the nicer life is.
There are some caveats (T&Cs) though.
Eg. You must realize that money is not everything.
Wishing everyone in this forum retire early and lead a happy and interesting life !
DKSG
Bro, very NICE of you.....
When we all make money, we MUST think of others..... I FULLY AGREE with you...
Its not always about the money....
Cheers bro :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Money is not everything but everything is money.
Govt has already given them EC as hope which is enough already.
Retirement is really a very nice stage of life ...
The earlier you reach this stage, the nicer life is.
There are some caveats (T&Cs) though.
Eg. You must realize that money is not everything.
Wishing everyone in this forum retire early and lead a happy and interesting life !
DKSG
bro, pple to make it to this forum and stay here for a period reading the posts... are already different from those out there paying 200k or 250k for the bmw and merc and trying to cough out instalment every month.
i believe most of us will retire early, at least, earlier than equivalant peers..
huat ah!
Bro, you are the WISE one.... Spend below your means and retirement becomes a reality and easier....
If everyone like you.... No more upgrade leh....
Look at the number of bmw, merc, etc..... Many want for show leh.... Thats the aspiration....
:D:D:D:D:D:D:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
bro, many pple here are WISER than me, i am still learning. i drive cheap 7 yr old jap car, no need nice 200k bmw or merc. all this become ash after 10 years. no point lah. but if everyone like me, economy also no multiplier effect.
anyway i see you are very free again.. target hit for the year? beginning of year you disappear, end of year appear again. anyway i also break my own record, between july and sep 2 months never log in at all. now i am back with vengeance! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Last week, I was talking to my agent.
Was telling him I'm looking for a nice investment property (He was nodding & supporting the idea) & I would rather put my extra cash on a property than a car which has no value in 10 years. Suddenly his face turn blank & he turned towards the window... Outside the window, is his fancy Audi Q7.
Last week, I was talking to my agent.
Was telling him I'm looking for a nice investment property (He was nodding & supporting the idea) & I would rather put my extra cash on a property than a car which has no value in 10 years. Suddenly his face turn blank & he turned towards the window... Outside the window, is his fancy Audi Q7.
He shouldn't turn blank, he should be happy that his Audi's money came from his clients like you. He should be overjoy that another potential carrot head to be knocked and upgrade his car some more.
you didnt get the essence of the post. and i dont wish or get into personal attacks like you.
1.
his Audi's money came from his clients like you.
Though it may be correct, your statement is wrong. He earned that money & was not gifted. Assuming the same logic, those salaried employees are getting their money from their boss & company services. No difference.
2.
He shouldn't turn blank
My post isnt sarcastic, rather about the reality. After I said that, he suddenly became conscious & retrospective.
3.
He should be overjoy that another potential carrot head to be knocked and upgrade his car some more.
Good for him. Worked hard, earned more money, spent more.
4. I greatly understand the need of a car in such profession & it is almost a MUST for them to have a car. But from his reaction, I could see he has second thoughts & he felt he shouldnt have stretched himself to own a bigger car & didnt feel at home with that investment.
So, I posted that as I could relate to the discussions above, had this similar experience just recently.
Have a nice day.
Time and time again, when there are more people shouting crash, it will actually rise. Only when people are shouting rise, then it will actually crash.
I'm invested with two properties and thinking about the third. I won't be selling any due to the existing cooling measures. The strategy is to do nothing and watch the show for now. 2015/2016 is a interesting time and perhaps bargains is available. Even if price are increasing gradually, I will be better positioned financially to buy the third.
Warren Buffett - "Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful"
puffer_fish
20-09-13, 14:58
Am very grateful that I was given the opportunity to participate in purchasing properties.
hope that all, would be given the same opportunity to own their properties:D
life is good in singapore:cheers1:
you didnt get the essence of the post. and i dont wish or get into personal attacks like you.
1.
Though it may be correct, your statement is wrong. He earned that money & was not gifted. Assuming the same logic, those salaried employees are getting their money from their boss & company services. No difference.
2.
My post isnt sarcastic, rather about the reality. After I said that, he suddenly became conscious & retrospective.
3.
Good for him. Worked hard, earned more money, spent more.
4. I greatly understand the need of a car in such profession & it is almost a MUST for them to have a car. But from his reaction, I could see he has second thoughts & he felt he shouldnt have stretched himself to own a bigger car & didnt feel at home with that investment.
So, I posted that as I could relate to the discussions above, had this similar experience just recently.
Have a nice day.
Nevermind you didn't get the joke. Relax today is friday.
The first time I went to showroom I was amazed when I parked my car. Woh! So many luxury cars, jaguar, BMs, etc. I thought business must be good, many rich buyers visit the showroom. Was surprised when going back, a group of agents, still wearing their pass, driving off maybe for lunch in those cars.
one more point is if this agent suddenly realized that house a better investment than his car, is he ready to give you good advise on property investment.
Nevermind you didn't get the joke. Relax today is friday.
The first time I went to showroom I was amazed when I parked my car. Woh! So many luxury cars, jaguar, BMs, etc. I thought business must be good, many rich buyers visit the showroom. Was surprised when going back, a group of agents, still wearing their pass, driving off maybe for lunch in those cars.
one more point is if this agent suddenly realized that house a better investment than his car, is he ready to give you good advise on property investment.
dont have to judge by the cars. could be leaseing leh.
dont have to judge by the cars. could be leaseing leh.
Sorry, I don't even bother what car the agent drives when I engage a agent.
one more point is if this agent suddenly realized that house a better investment than his car, is he ready to give you good advise on property investment.
I never said he should have put the money on property instead of on a car.
A car is a must for him in his profession. But how much & what car to buy is a choice. Maybe retrospectively, he might feel, didnt really need a fancy car for his needs.
But, that doesnt mean he has enough to invest on a property or maybe he already has invested on few.
My point is: There is a need level (bare minimum comfort) & then, There is a pleasure/comfort level on top of that(sky is the upper limit for that).
Unfortunately, everyone has only one life, so even if our needs are met, we wont be satisfied that & stop at the need level. Thats the reality.
Goldman Pushes Back Forecast On First Taper To December, First Rate Hike To 2016: FOMC Q&A
=> SIBOR 0.4% until 2016 :scared-1::eek::banghead::scared-3::doh:
good what why u :doh:...u money lender ahhh:D
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