View Full Version : Need advice
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 00:19
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
Sorry to disappoint you.
$100K cash is just sufficient for you to pay stamp duty for second property of abt $1million, which maybe about 2BR 800 sqft.
You staying in a MM now ?
Keeping the existing one does not look like a choice for you, unless I missed out some information, please correct me.
You are the group of people government is targeting to prevent you from overleveraging.
Your best bet is to sell (if you no need pay extra SSD), and upgrade.
Do watch out the TDSR though, if sell now and buy, must check the new PC fits into your TDSR.
Also, my advice is to make some provisions in case economy downturn and either one or both of you goes without a job for an extended period.
DKSG
DKSG
In my humble opinion, I think the best option is to set down with your the other half and weigh the pros and cons.. in another words to dissuade her suggestion to replace/hoot another one. Selling your current and hoot another replacement [already TOPed] is also quite risky as you need to secure a buyer for a unit and at the same time already have a unit in mind that you wish to buy. Why not just sit out and save for another 3-4yrs or so since both of you are still quite young?
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 01:49
Sorry to disappoint you.
$100K cash is just sufficient for you to pay stamp duty for second property of abt $1million, which maybe about 2BR 800 sqft.
You staying in a MM now ?
Keeping the existing one does not look like a choice for you, unless I missed out some information, please correct me.
You are the group of people government is targeting to prevent you from overleveraging.
Your best bet is to sell (if you no need pay extra SSD), and upgrade.
Do watch out the TDSR though, if sell now and buy, must check the new PC fits into your TDSR.
Also, my advice is to make some provisions in case economy downturn and either one or both of you goes without a job for an extended period.
DKSG
DKSG
Yes We have only around 100k savings in cash. We are actually staying put in a 70+sqm private apartment in the west and not bounded by SSD though. My spouse has been complaining to me that the unit is juz too small for our family with two toddlers. To add on, we have a 5 year old MPV with an outstanding loan of 25k. To be honest, we never put in any consideration that economy downturn would be possible. We r pretty optimistic on the outlook as a matter of fact.
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 01:51
In my humble opinion, I think the best option is to set down with your the other half and weigh the pros and cons.. in another words to dissuade her suggestion to replace/hoot another one. Selling your current and hoot another replacement [already TOPed] is also quite risky as you need to secure a buyer for a unit and at the same time already have a unit in mind that you wish to buy. Why not just sit out and save for another 3-4yrs or so since both of you are still quite young?
Yah I wonder if it is easy to dispose my current unit? It seems we may have to give up for another?
Yah I wonder if it is easy to dispose my current unit? It seems we may have to give up for another?
For 2 toddlers, 70sqm is indeed small and I suggest going for at least a 3rm. The best way to see if you can easily sell your current unit is to market your place for sale to "test water". At the same time you can start scouring for top units in the market that matches your financial budget.
Another suggestion you can look into is EC. Since you have an existing private property you need to wait at least 30months. To go around this, can check if your parents or parent-in-law are eligible to hoot an EC. In this way, financially it is not so strain but then the house ownership will not be yours :o
there's no way u can keep 2 properties at the same time, with all the CMs in place.
if you made $$ on your current place, sell and upgrade.
Yes We have only around 100k savings in cash. We are actually staying put in a 70+sqm private apartment in the west and not bounded by SSD though. My spouse has been complaining to me that the unit is juz too small for our family with two toddlers. To add on, we have a 5 year old MPV with an outstanding loan of 25k. To be honest, we never put in any consideration that economy downturn would be possible. We r pretty optimistic on the outlook as a matter of fact.
I suggest you talk to your banker on :
1) Valuation of your current place
2) Valuation of your intended place
3) TDSR
4) Monies you need to keep aside in case of contingencies
Based on the little information you gave, in my very very humble opinon, since I am just an Office Boy, there seems to be no way for your to upgrade.
If you are staying in Jurong and bought your PC at less than $8xx psf, now can fetch $1,1xx, I suggest you wait a while since the lastest MM were sold for $1,6xx-$1,7xx, you have a good chance of $100-$200 psf more. But once hit, sell, because unlikely to get more upside.
If you want to do a swop, sell leg comes first. Then buy.
DKSG
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
1) How much cash/cpf will you get after selling your 2 bedder apartment
2) With TDSR, what is the maximum loan you can qualify?
3) Kids?
Based on your combine income of $10k, i think you will be much better off selling the 2 bedder and buy a resale condo or even HDB if you need more space.
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 09:04
I suggest you talk to your banker on :
1) Valuation of your current place
2) Valuation of your intended place
3) TDSR
4) Monies you need to keep aside in case of contingencies
Based on the little information you gave, in my very very humble opinon, since I am just an Office Boy, there seems to be no way for your to upgrade.
If you are staying in Jurong and bought your PC at less than $8xx psf, now can fetch $1,1xx, I suggest you wait a while since the lastest MM were sold for $1,6xx-$1,7xx, you have a good chance of $100-$200 psf more. But once hit, sell, because unlikely to get more upside.
If you want to do a swop, sell leg comes first. Then buy.
DKSG
What do you mean by sell leg comes first? Is it selling off the current unit to do a swop for a new one? I do not know how TSDR being calculate and ain't sure if I am eligible for a bigger loan. Wife keep reminding me to get a bigger unit as our children is growing up, we need space.
What do you mean by sell leg comes first? Is it selling off the current unit to do a swop for a new one? I do not know how TSDR being calculate and ain't sure if I am eligible for a bigger loan. Wife keep reminding me to get a bigger unit as our children is growing up, we need space.
Your expenses are going to be quite high with 2 kids.
If you need more space, suggest you consider selling your current place and then buy resale HDB in appropriate location and preferably close to public transport for the future schooling of your kids or else EC if you meet the TDSR criteria to get the loan. It doesn't seem financially sound to upgrade to a larger PC as it will be stretching your limits. You need to set aside some $$$ for your kids' education. And don't underestimate this cost.
It should be a good time to buy resale HDB as the COVs are dropping. And save up diligently for future upgrade when your finances have improved.
It is not worth buying BUC for you. The unit will be small for your budget (maybe even smaller than what you currently have).
I am not sure if your family would consider to move to a hdb for more space as you have been staying in a PC for a while. The suggestion of EC is quite good before garment remove goodies from EC applicants and you may not be eligible very soon as your combined income may go beyond $12000 soon. It is not an easy decision. Are you planning to stay put around this area?
For 2 toddlers, 70sqm is indeed small and I suggest going for at least a 3rm. The best way to see if you can easily sell your current unit is to market your place for sale to "test water". At the same time you can start scouring for top units in the market that matches your financial budget.
Another suggestion you can look into is EC. Since you have an existing private property you need to wait at least 30months. To go around this, can check if your parents or parent-in-law are eligible to hoot an EC. In this way, financially it is not so strain but then the house ownership will not be yours :o
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
if I were u, I would try to sell of the existing pte ppty & buy a resale 4rm hdb. u shd be able to get some cash back from the swop. then I will save up for another 5 more yrs to buy a pte for invstmt purposes.
looks to me you need to cut down on your expenses first.
100k savings on 10k income per month is not a lot.
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if u sell 2br and buy a 3br at the same time/similar location u definite have to cough out more. your saving of 100k is only enough to pay for stamp duty, not enough to pay for the xtra space.
worse still, u have outstanding car loan which will affect the amt of loan u can get for the new house due to the TDSR.
In your situation you are looking more for a need to get a bigger home for your growing kids. Given your current financial situation and the market right now, the best option available is to first do a financial calculation on how much cash you can get for yr 2 bedder to see if it doesn't stretch your finances too much on yr new home. Resale hdb is a good choice now since the supply is going up and easy to find one. Just rmb now is buyer's market so sell first before signing option for yr new resale home if not u may find yrself needing to sell below valuation yr current unit.
;) Do yr financial homework well or if anything can approach me for professional advice.
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 19:27
Yo! Thanks all for the advices. I guess we have to move into HDB. However, I am stuck with a dilemma, I have to wait 30 months before I can get a HDB? I think this is abit too much? I have two toddler kids and how can I wait for 30 months? Is there any channel I could appeal? Go MP route?
Yo! Thanks all for the advices. I guess we have to move into HDB. However, I am stuck with a dilemma, I have to wait 30 months before I can get a HDB? I think this is abit too much? I have two toddler kids and how can I wait for 30 months? Is there any channel I could appeal? Go MP route?
need to wait 30mths before allowed to buy BTO.
but buy resale hdb, no need to wait 30 months.
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 21:09
need to wait 30mths before allowed to buy BTO.
but buy resale hdb, no need to wait 30 months.
This is so unfair for middle-incomer like my wife and myself. We have two kids yet we are left in a lurch. Sucks to be in this position!:doh:
This is so unfair for middle-incomer like my wife and myself. We have two kids yet we are left in a lurch. Sucks to be in this position!:doh:
as Chinese proverb says, 塞翁失马，焉知非福。
It may not be bad to buy resale HDB, at least you will have many choices, and you can move in immediately. and most importantly, you will not have MOP.
Thermofisher
08-10-13, 21:35
as Chinese proverb says, 塞翁失马，焉知非福。
It may not be bad to buy resale HDB, at least you will have many choices, and you can move in immediately. and most importantly, you will not have MOP.
Bro I think there is MOP for resales as well. This is so unfair!
Allthepies
08-10-13, 21:45
Bro I think there is MOP for resales as well. This is so unfair!
Think about those people with no hands and legs yet some can even live happier life than you, so please don't shout unfair.....
This is so unfair for middle-incomer like my wife and myself. We have two kids yet we are left in a lurch. Sucks to be in this position!:doh:
Actually cant really blame others. Family planning is long term.. if oneplan to have kid(s) must already plan ahead for larger house. Should have gotten an EC from start or a 5rm HDB
Of course I am not in a position to apply the above to you since I'm not in your position but this should serve as a general advice to those who plan to have kids and planning to hoot condos with the ever shrink sizes of pte housing in lion city
I hate to break it to you but 10k with 2 toddlers, existing mortgage and car loan ain't a lot. I don't think you should be thinking of upgrading in the PC space.
100K savings should really be used in times of trouble, you have a young family now and this is really for them.
If it is really too much, your best bet is a resale HDB. But it perhaps will pain you to sell your PC.
However, If I were you, I would wait it out.
There is also the option of buying property at Iskandar. For SGD$250k you can get a nice double story landed property at Nusajaya, gated with security. You can then perhaps keep you existing property. You however need to sort out the transport (cld take 1 -2 hrs to get to work in the morning) and daycare (I'm sure you could find good cost effective options in Iskandar/Johor)
I am probably gonna get flamed for suggesting Iskandar but I have friends who have very positive things to say about the place. I would consider, but the choice is up to you
All the best!
I hate to break it to you but 10k with 2 toddlers, existing mortgage and car loan ain't a lot. I don't think you should be thinking of upgrading in the PC space.
100K savings should really be used in times of trouble, you have a young family now and this is really for them.
If it is really too much, your best bet is a resale HDB. But it perhaps will pain you to sell your PC.
However, If I were you, I would wait it out.
There is also the option of buying property at Iskandar. For SGD$250k you can get a nice double story landed property at Nusajaya, gated with security. You can then perhaps keep you existing property. You however need to sort out the transport (cld take 1 -2 hrs to get to work in the morning) and daycare (I'm sure you could find good cost effective options in Iskandar/Johor)
I am probably gonna get flamed for suggesting Iskandar but I have friends who have very positive things to say about the place. I would consider, but the choice is up to you
All the best!
With young children around Iskandar is not the best option. Since children are young just bear with current house until you have saved up sufficiently to upgrade to a bigger house. It is too late to regret not knowing the rules against PC downgrading to HDB.
i would think the best option is sell PC at high price (like now), buy resale HDB (no need wait 30 months) at a far location like woodlands or jurong (but near MRT), then save for 5 yrs and buy a PC for investment.
if you can make money from your MPV, sell it and downgrade to normal saloon. that's what i did recently. sold a 2.4L SUV and buy a 1.5L old saloon car. hey, i got 3 kids, more than you. took back a decent sum of cash for rainy day.
i am one step ahead of you as i already have a fully paid HDB and now a PC bot b4 ABSD, but what i am trying to say is to conserve your cash.
PropertyNewbie
08-10-13, 23:23
Rent out your 2 bedder.
Then go find one 3 or 4 bedder and rent. If you're lucky or move to a cheaper area/EC you may not have to cough out any extra cash.
Rent out your 2 bedder.
Then go find one 3 or 4 bedder and rent. If you're lucky or move to a cheaper area/EC you may not have to cough out any extra cash.
Back to back rental has got its own risk.
Please highlight the risk also if you are making a suggestion.
DKSG
proud owner
08-10-13, 23:59
I think the best solution is to sell your current 2 bedder and buy a resale HDB near MRT .. that way you can sell your car too...
Woodlands/yishun/sembawang may be a little far by Singaporean standard.
but hey ... compared to NYKers, its a piece of cake taking MRT to work in Singapore...
Bro I think there is MOP for resales as well. This is so unfair!
even if there is MOP for resale HDB, it is much shorter. Anyway, you need time to accumulate your bullets if you want to buy another properties.
In that case, you can consider buy HDB in your and your wife name, making the other occupier only in case the ABSD rule holds for a long time. But beware to take your own risk.
even if there is MOP for resale HDB, it is much shorter. Anyway, you need time to accumulate your bullets if you want to buy another properties.
In that case, you can consider buy HDB in your and your wife name, making the other occupier only in case the ABSD rule holds for a long time. But beware to take your own risk.
Agree. The current 5 year MOP for resale is just nice for you to accumulate bullets and to get your toddlers registered and settled into their schools. Who knows they may increase the MOP in the not so distant future, so better buy now as those who have already bought are bound by the old rules (so far that's been the case anyway).
I am not sure that you can buy HDB in sole name if you are married, the regulations may not allow this. You need to check it out with HDB.
Under current rules, you can keep your HDB and buy private later. So you can still upgrade and keep the HDB (but not the other way round). You have to pay ABSD though. But perhaps in 5 years time, ABSD will be removed. You can stay "safely" in your HDB and wait out the economic cycles, at the same time, get more space for your family and be near transport and amenities. Seriously you should consider it, now that HDB resale prices are softening. Old resale flats are more spacious than new ones and have better (more central) locations too.
so many suggestions given, given his constraints
1) he still want to keep the naggy wife
2) 2 growing children which he still want to keep.
3) $100k savings not enough to buy bigger condo in singapore
4) $500k debt chain around his neck.
6) income $10k cannot buy extra condo given TDSR.
7) 2br condo not enough space for family.
8) BTO wait 30 months
like that this beggar still want to be choosy.
TS, do you understand that beggars cannot be chosers?
my advise:
go the source of the problem. kick the naggy wife out. from your post, it is her incessant nagging that gives you headache.
so many suggestions given, given his constraints
1) he still want to keep the naggy wife
2) 2 growing children which he still want to keep.
3) $100k savings not enough to buy bigger condo in singapore
4) $500k debt chain around his neck.
6) income $10k cannot buy extra condo given TDSR.
7) 2br condo not enough space for family.
8) BTO wait 30 months
like that this beggar still want to be choosy.
TS, do you understand that beggars cannot be chosers?
my advise:
go the source of the problem. kick the naggy wife out. from your post, it is her incessant nagging that gives you headache.
walau, u tis type of husband?! :eek: :(
The last thing you want to do is to go naked, i.e. sell your condo and rent. This high risk high gain move is likely to turn your nagging wife into a mad wife.
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
Now might not be the best time to swap.... but if really want. u better do ur TDSR calculation properly. plus factor in interest rise in next 2 yrs. dont base your affordability on current 1.3% interest rates.
Cyberknight
09-10-13, 11:03
TDSR is based on 3.5% interest rate calculation.
Total outgoing payments include car, cc , housing installments etc can't exceed 60% of ur gross salary include base salary, allowance, (bonus, rental income cum non stable income all 30% haircut) etc.
Hope these info helps u in ur calculation.
Thermofisher
09-10-13, 11:26
so many suggestions given, given his constraints
1) he still want to keep the naggy wife
2) 2 growing children which he still want to keep.
3) $100k savings not enough to buy bigger condo in singapore
4) $500k debt chain around his neck.
6) income $10k cannot buy extra condo given TDSR.
7) 2br condo not enough space for family.
8) BTO wait 30 months
like that this beggar still want to be choosy.
TS, do you understand that beggars cannot be chosers?
my advise:
go the source of the problem. kick the naggy wife out. from your post, it is her incessant nagging that gives you headache.
You are very cruel...
TS, if u decided to go for resale HDB, can consider waiting out for Pinnacle.
TS, if u decided to go for resale HDB, can consider waiting out for Pinnacle.
HDB TDSR 30%?
max tenure 25 years?
Pinnacle $1million?
COV?
his 100k saving + equity gained from sale of his 2bedder enough to afford Pinnacle?
hopeful is quite sarcastic *as usual* :) ... but ... the money part is the hard truth...
10k income is not enough for a 3bd condo , with 2 kids some more.
so many suggestions given, given his constraints
1) he still want to keep the naggy wife
2) 2 growing children which he still want to keep.
3) $100k savings not enough to buy bigger condo in singapore
4) $500k debt chain around his neck.
6) income $10k cannot buy extra condo given TDSR.
7) 2br condo not enough space for family.
8) BTO wait 30 months
like that this beggar still want to be choosy.
TS, do you understand that beggars cannot be chosers?
my advise:
go the source of the problem. kick the naggy wife out. from your post, it is her incessant nagging that gives you headache. sounds like its the husband's fault to me :p
HDB TDSR 30%?
max tenure 25 years?
Pinnacle $1million?
COV?
his 100k saving + equity gained from sale of his 2bedder enough to afford Pinnacle?
the units at pinnacle aren't exactly big....best is to get an EA or maisonette
hopeful must give him some hope la,;) we didn't factor in his OA.
hopefully TS can put on a thinking hat and work towards "how to afford it" instead of having this thought.
This is so unfair for middle-incomer like my wife and myself. We have two kids yet we are left in a lurch. Sucks to be in this position!:doh:
hopeful is quite sarcastic *as usual* :) ... but ... the money part is the hard truth...
10k income is not enough for a 3bd condo , with 2 kids some more.
Actually not true leh. Depends on family expenses. Its the TDSR thats gonna hit though. Maybe TS stands to gain few hundred k profit from the first condo sale? Plus CPF and his existing cash might have a decent buffer.
evolutionx
10-10-13, 23:58
Back to back rental has got its own risk.
Please highlight the risk also if you are making a suggestion.
DKSG
DKSG is not wrong. i know a guy who sold 4 years ago ... STILL waiting for economy to crash. in the meantime, he had to move out of his place once and his upcoming renewal up 30%. he still praying prices come down - but the problem is he spent about 250,000+ on rentals (and some basic reno) over 4 years.
i think hdb might be suitable. just buy a resale 4 or 5 bedder. pocket the rest and pay off your car loan. why you wanna make the bank richer. car loans interest rate normally higher.
DKSG is not wrong. i know a guy who sold 4 years ago ... STILL waiting for economy to crash. in the meantime, he had to move out of his place once and his upcoming renewal up 30%. he still praying prices come down - but the problem is he spent about 250,000+ on rentals (and some basic reno) over 4 years..
in singapore, never be naked without any ppty. big/small/CCR/OCR doesn't matter. but at least must have one roof over the head. then slowly think what is next step.
I got a friend who sold his property for a nice profit and rent for about 2 years. Bought a resale condo due to rising rent and also helping to pay landlord's mortgage.
DKSG is not wrong. i know a guy who sold 4 years ago ... STILL waiting for economy to crash. in the meantime, he had to move out of his place once and his upcoming renewal up 30%. he still praying prices come down - but the problem is he spent about 250,000+ on rentals (and some basic reno) over 4 years.
i think hdb might be suitable. just buy a resale 4 or 5 bedder. pocket the rest and pay off your car loan. why you wanna make the bank richer. car loans interest rate normally higher.
I got a friend who sold his property for a nice profit and rent for about 2 years. Bought a resale condo due to rising rent and also helping to pay landlord's mortgage.
My previous tenant rented my Anchorage for bloody 5 years waiting for prices to drop.... Finally bot a unit 1/2 a year ago.... Imagine how much she paid for rental and prices some more shot up... And my unit is not MM hor... 3 bedder leh.... Steam.....
Another one renting my Clover now... Mentioned tenants are Singaporeans... 2 years rental and recently renewed... Again, I do national service... Gave a lower rate... so poor thing leh....;)
darkseed73
11-10-13, 12:59
Some of the bro/sis advice sounds cruel but they just wanted you to be realistic.
If your parents have a place, u can sell and move to stay with parents else don't be spoiled be contented on what u have until either u reduce your loan amount or increase your savings to a sizable amount.
If u don't suffer, u will never able to grow bigger.
That is my advice.
Another one renting my Clover now... Mentioned tenants are Singaporeans... 2 years rental and recently renewed... Again, I do national service... Gave a lower rate... so poor thing leh....;)
you make me very ashamed. :banghead::banghead: last time i had one unit, rented by s'poreans who sold their HDB waiting for price to drop. i think by now,already 3-4 yrs since they sold (i dun own that condo anymore).
but anyway the story is, they late in rental by 1-2 months. after that i gave them one mth notice and chased them out.
you make me very ashamed. :banghead::banghead: last time i had one unit, rented by s'poreans who sold their HDB waiting for price to drop. i think by now,already 3-4 yrs since they sold (i dun own that condo anymore).
but anyway the story is, they late in rental by 1-2 months. after that i gave them one mth notice and chased them out.
Brudder, u did the rite thing.... I would have done it as well...
I did national service... The rental went up from the previous contract but easily a few hundred below the asking prices....
I really pity those Singaporeans who bet on price drop to rent.... It is a flip of the coin... Either you get it rite or you get it wrong... But why throw away easily 4k a month on rental... 2 years = 96k leh.... Somemore no diplomatic clause to protect....
I guess this people are gamblers...
Brudder, u did the rite thing.... I would have done it as well...
I did national service... The rental went up from the previous contract but easily a few hundred below the asking prices....
I really pity those Singaporeans who bet on price drop to rent.... It is a flip of the coin... Either you get it rite or you get it wrong... But why throw away easily 4k a month on rental... 2 years = 96k leh.... Somemore no diplomatic clause to protect....
I guess this people are gamblers...
pay rental is a sure thing. bet that price go down is a 33% thing (up/down/maintain). these pple really got balls. i dun have.
one roof over your head is a MUST for every family. that one cannot gamble.
if you have 2 roof or 3 roof u can sell all that you like.
pay rental is a sure thing. bet that price go down is a 33% thing (up/down/maintain). these pple really got balls. i dun have.
one roof over your head is a MUST for every family. that one cannot gamble.
if you have 2 roof or 3 roof u can sell all that you like.
Brother, I dont know if you can recall about playing when you have 3 units...
1 for stay, 2 for rental.... So you can sell 1 and still vested in another....
If you have only 2... difficult to play the game... Sell 1 and if prices shoot up, you are out of the game and only have your home.... that is if you talking about property play... Of course you can also use the proceeds to do something else like stocks, bonds, etc...;)
I really pity those Singaporeans who bet on price drop to rent.... It is a flip of the coin... Either you get it rite or you get it wrong... But why throw away easily 4k a month on rental... 2 years = 96k leh.... Somemore no diplomatic clause to protect....
I guess this people are gamblers...
I think we shouldn't mock those who bet wrongly, life is not just about money, the worst is something happens in the home that cannot be solved using all the money in the world, if you know what I mean.
There's a Chinese saying, throw money to ward off disaster. Sometimes in life, you gain something, but lose something and vice versa.
I think we shouldn't mock those who bet wrongly, life is not just about money, the worst is something happens in the home that cannot be solved using all the money in the world, if you know what I mean.
There's a Chinese saying, throw money to ward off disaster. Sometimes in life, you gain something, but lose something and vice versa.
I think you got me all wrong.... I never mock them....
All I am saying is why gamble with a roof over your head????
Where in my statement do you feel I am mocking them????
Let me ask you another question - What if something happens at home that can be solved by money and the individual do not have it???
If something happens that money cannot be solved, sure... I understand...
Please do not read so deep into my statements... We can have a constructive argument, but please, please do not pass remarks like I am mocking people... I share my views does not mean I am mocking hor....
Would you gamble on your own roof????
Why they want to rent a condo??? They pay > 4K a month, they can jolly well afford to buy a condo rite???? or why dont they stay in a hdb... They help me to pay for my condo, why should I mock them???
Please do not past judgement on me like this... I have never past any judgement on you rite????
Please do not past judgement on me like this... I have never past any judgement on you rite????
Please don't worry, only discussion. Also, I said "we", also apply to myself.
Please don't worry, only discussion. Also, I said "we", also apply to myself.
cheers bro... I really have no ill intent....
Speaking my personal and honest view on forum tends to give people wrong impression.... I really giving my honest view that people should not gamble with their only property by selling and renting.... It is too big a risk... The first house is a HOME.... to provide shelter.... Not for speculation.... It is a place to have memories and provide a conducive environment for the family.... There will be people who disagree with me and I will respect their decision... Which is why I have rented out to the Singaporeans...
Everyone has their own views and we have to agree to disagree and respect their views... If someone strongly thinks the first house is for speculation, it is their decision rite, I will argue constructively with them but I will respect their views for sure... After all, who am I to pass judgement... It is their wish and their money rite????
Cheers
;)
:) I agree that it is irresponsible to speculate that way.
If they have sold more than 30 months ago, they can apply for BTO or sale of balance flat as first timer if never apply BTO previously, or 2nd timer if have - if i'm not wrong.
:) I agree that it is irresponsible to speculate that way.
If they have sold more than 30 months ago, they can apply for BTO or sale of balance flat as first timer if never apply BTO previously, or 2nd timer if have - if i'm not wrong.
I sincerely hope these people did not heed the advice of someone here in the past who BOLDY (literally write in BOLD all the time) predict market will down 50% by 2015!
Anyway, those who MTB and then now go buy new launch, personally, I think very wrong move!
DKSG
I sincerely hope these people did not heed the advice of someone here in the past who BOLDY (literally write in BOLD all the time) predict market will down 50% by 2015!
Anyway, those who MTB and then now go buy new launch, personally, I think very wrong move!
DKSG
What is MTB?
cheers bro... I really have no ill intent....
Speaking my personal and honest view on forum tends to give people wrong impression.... I really giving my honest view that people should not gamble with their only property by selling and renting.... It is too big a risk... The first house is a HOME.... to provide shelter.... Not for speculation.... It is a place to have memories and provide a conducive environment for the family.... There will be people who disagree with me and I will respect their decision... Which is why I have rented out to the Singaporeans...
Everyone has their own views and we have to agree to disagree and respect their views... If someone strongly thinks the first house is for speculation, it is their decision rite, I will argue constructively with them but I will respect their views for sure... After all, who am I to pass judgement... It is their wish and their money rite????
Cheers
;)
Agree with Chestnut
Agree with Chestnut
I think to each their own la!
Some people likes to take risks in their lives.
They have the win big lose big kinda destiny.
As long as they know what they are doing, I think it is fine.
DKSG
Thermofisher
11-10-13, 22:45
Yo! The new inflora condo price looks attractive. Do you all think it is a good buy there? My family and myself do not mind relocating to west as long it is bigger unit? Any downside to that area?
Yo! The new inflora condo price looks attractive. Do you all think it is a good buy there? My family and myself do not mind relocating to west as long it is bigger unit? Any downside to that area?
do you stay in pedra branca? else why do you say move west to Inflora?
i do agree though the lighthouse is a bit small for a growing family.
Yo! The new inflora condo price looks attractive. Do you all think it is a good buy there? My family and myself do not mind relocating to west as long it is bigger unit? Any downside to that area?
Thermofisher sure sounds like Yowetan :p:p
What is MTB?
MTB = Miss the Boat.
e.g. In 2006 before CM1 (Control Measure) people think SGD 535,000 for 2 Bedroom at Southbank too expensive because Leasehold, near Goldenmile, near HDB, near main Road...... and decided not to buy and wait, then came CM2, still wait then came CM3, CM4, CM5, CM6, CM7, CM8.......
http://www.crei-academy.com/the-8th-property-cooling-measure-the-financial-implications-on-mass-market-buyers/
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/property-analysis-reports/7th-residential-cooling-measure-strong-policies-to-douse-red-hot-property-prices/a/101188
http://propertysoul.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/cooling-measures.jpg
http://propertysoul.com/2012/12/06/property-cooling-measures-any-more-to-come/
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/news.aspx?id=402
15 Dec 2006
A concession to defer Stamp Duty payment on all contracts was introduced in June 1998 as part of the off-budget measures to cushion the impact of economic slowdown. The Government has decided to withdraw the concession with immediate effect (from 15 December 2006) as the economic conditions and the property market have improved.
Sept 2009
In September last year, the Government introduced a set of measures2 to temper the exuberance in the private residential market. The Government has continued to monitor the property market closely. While the September 2009 measures helped to cool the property market, there are recent signs that it is starting to heat up again.
2 The measures were the removal of the Interest Absorption Scheme and Interest-Only housing loans, resumption of the Confirmed List under the Government Land Sales Programme in 1st Half of 2010, and non-extension of property-related measures announced as part of Budget 2009 which expired in January 2010.
19 Feb 2010
The Government announced today the following measures to ensure a stable and sustainable property market:
a) Introducing a Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) on all residential properties and residential lands that are bought after today and sold within 1 year from the date of purchase1; and
b) Lowering the Loan-to-Value (LTV) limit to 80% for all housing loans provided by financial institutions regulated by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS)
The measures will take effect on 20 February 2010.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10098
30 Aug 2010
The Government announced today the following measures to maintain a stable and sustainable property market:
a) Increase the holding period for imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) from the current one year to three years.
b) For property buyers who already have one or more outstanding housing loans [1] at the time of the new housing purchase:
i. Increase the minimum cash payment from 5% to 10% of the valuation limit [2]; and
ii. Decrease the Loan-to-Value (LTV) limit for housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS to these buyers from the current 80% to 70%.
http://iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10700
Brother, I dont know if you can recall about playing when you have 3 units...
1 for stay, 2 for rental.... So you can sell 1 and still vested in another....
If you have only 2... difficult to play the game... Sell 1 and if prices shoot up, you are out of the game and only have your home.... that is if you talking about property play... Of course you can also use the proceeds to do something else like stocks, bonds, etc...;)
bro, i remember u said something like that.
i still believe strongly in ppty.
becoz stocks/bonds cannot leverage (except thru margin, very risky)
bro, i remember u said something like that.
i still believe strongly in ppty.
becoz stocks/bonds cannot leverage (except thru margin, very risky)
Bro, today I good mood.... I share my life philosophy and what I see thru my eye... This is a personal view and each of u will also have your own view...
Money
I find, in life, people say money is not important, happy can already.... The issue is when something strikes u whereby u need the money??? Healthcare, incidences, etc.... So u really need to decide if money is important or not.... different people have different needs and aspirations... And I am not here to pass judgement..... Just sharing a thought provocative issue.. To me, money cannot solve all problems but money can solve many problems...
To spend now or later (to save now or later)
Personally, I have been very thrifty in my earlier years... In the past 7 years or so, I have been indulging quite a fair bit as I felt I have saved enough and the family will be provided for even when I kick the bucket...
The question at the back of many is - if I don't spend now, what if I kick the bucket??? The same can be said about, if I spend now, will I have enough when i retire...
There is no sure answer to that... It is a flip of the coin... So u just have to decide what kind of person u are and plan accordingly....
Life is full of mysteries, we should love to explore and be happy each day....
Agree... Life is not about money... But without it, can u live a happier life... I have no answer ot this conundrum...
:cheers1:
Thermofisher sure sounds like Yowetan :p:p
no lah. I think Yowetan only aims to add some topics to this forum, but thermofisher is really seeking advice, although to me, his best choice is obvious -resale hdb.
Some people think he saves too little. but I think his family income is standard and his saving is quite ok considering he is in his 30s and he has two toddlers.
He can easily find his income doubled in ten years.
Bro, today I good mood.... I share my life philosophy and what I see thru my eye... This is a personal view and each of u will also have your own view...
Money
I find, in life, people say money is not important, happy can already.... The issue is when something strikes u whereby u need the money??? Healthcare, incidences, etc.... So u really need to decide if money is important or not.... different people have different needs and aspirations... And I am not here to pass judgement..... Just sharing a thought provocative issue.. To me, money cannot solve all problems but money can solve many problems...
To spend now or later (to save now or later)
Personally, I have been very thrifty in my earlier years... In the past 7 years or so, I have been indulging quite a fair bit as I felt I have saved enough and the family will be provided for even when I kick the bucket...
The question at the back of many is - if I don't spend now, what if I kick the bucket??? The same can be said about, if I spend now, will I have enough when i retire...
There is no sure answer to that... It is a flip of the coin... So u just have to decide what kind of person u are and plan accordingly....
Life is full of mysteries, we should love to explore and be happy each day....
Agree... Life is not about money... But without it, can u live a happier life... I have no answer ot this conundrum...
:cheers1:
Office Boy has been thinking about nearly the same question for the last 12 months. But I did come up with something that is full proof (in my view).
Money is divided into 2 basic forms during retirement.
1) Hard Cash
2) Cashflows
I personally deem hard cash for retirement as anything from $300-$500K sitting in the bank growing at 2% interest (ie you can place some in REITs, some in shares to make up the difference between bank interest and 2%).
Cashflows - This diffferent from lump sum cash. Objective is to create a perpetual property portfolio that can generate $x,000 per month. X being determined by your personal cash requirements.
The more difficult issues are : Determining what are the meaningful spending during retirement? Where I want to stay during retirement?
Office Boy seen too many cases of my office retirees (those who really work until 60-62 then take a lot of money) who cannot manage their retirements and end up with a very laughable life - worked hard, take instructions from Bosses, crap from subordinates, nonsense and everything thrown in ... then at the end of the day, splurge their money on meaningless (to me) things like casino, PRC women, drinking, nightclubs - then end up with a HDB flat that they clearly dont like (coz they want to stay PC during retirement) ...
So Office Boy is determined not to follow these foot steps.
DKSG
PS: Of course, there is the age of retirement that one has to consider. Office Boy certainly dont want to work till 62 !!! Too many years to work and too few years left. 45-50 is a much better option.
50 is a good age to retire with about another 23-28 years based on the current life span of people in Singapore. What if the person is having good salary (top 5-8% of income earner in sigapore) in a not so stressful job do except with some occasional office politics? Should the person go for early retirement having achieved all those that you have mentioned and more? It can be a dilemma. There is always a tendency for people to try to earn as much as he could when the opportunity is there. :)
Office Boy has been thinking about nearly the same question for the last 12 months. But I did come up with something that is full proof (in my view).
Money is divided into 2 basic forms during retirement.
1) Hard Cash
2) Cashflows
I personally deem hard cash for retirement as anything from $300-$500K sitting in the bank growing at 2% interest (ie you can place some in REITs, some in shares to make up the difference between bank interest and 2%).
Cashflows - This diffferent from lump sum cash. Objective is to create a perpetual property portfolio that can generate $x,000 per month. X being determined by your personal cash requirements.
The more difficult issues are : Determining what are the meaningful spending during retirement? Where I want to stay during retirement?
Office Boy seen too many cases of my office retirees (those who really work until 60-62 then take a lot of money) who cannot manage their retirements and end up with a very laughable life - worked hard, take instructions from Bosses, crap from subordinates, nonsense and everything thrown in ... then at the end of the day, splurge their money on meaningless (to me) things like casino, PRC women, drinking, nightclubs - then end up with a HDB flat that they clearly dont like (coz they want to stay PC during retirement) ...
So Office Boy is determined not to follow these foot steps.
DKSG
PS: Of course, there is the age of retirement that one has to consider. Office Boy certainly dont want to work till 62 !!! Too many years to work and too few years left. 45-50 is a much better option.
... then at the end of the day, splurge their money on meaningless (to me) things like casino, PRC women, drinking, nightclubs - then end up with a HDB flat that they clearly dont like (coz they want to stay PC during retirement) ...
So Office Boy is determined not to follow these foot....
Perspective, perspective :)
For a lot of men, women / gamble / drink / some fun, before the end IS the whole point. Some one told me this: I am frank to you on this. I have no interest to travel the world and etc. I slug all my life. Now I want to have some decadence in life and do something I REALLY want, something I never did in my life until now. Who cares. I have nothing to worry about. I dun want to die with "myself in heaven, money in bank " - it's mandarin with a nice rhyme. ( dun know how to type Chinese, maybe some one can translate )
Perspective, perspective :)
For a lot of men, women / gamble / drink / some fun, before the end IS the whole point. Some one told me this: I am frank to you on this. I have no interest to travel the world and etc. I slug all my life. Now I want to have some decadence in life and do something I REALLY want, something I never did in my life until now. Who cares. I have nothing to worry about. I dun want to die with "myself in heaven, money in bank " - it's mandarin with a nice rhyme. ( dun know how to type Chinese, maybe some one can translate )
本身在天堂,本钱在银堂。哈哈
How they know they will go to heaven?
By doing all those immoral things, they will most likely find themselves "in HELL" instead? :hell-hath-no-fury:
And no, money no longer in bank also. :eek:
Perspective, perspective :)
For a lot of men, women / gamble / drink / some fun, before the end IS the whole point. Some one told me this: I am frank to you on this. I have no interest to travel the world and etc. I slug all my life. Now I want to have some decadence in life and do something I REALLY want, something I never did in my life until now. Who cares. I have nothing to worry about. I dun want to die with "myself in heaven, money in bank " - it's mandarin with a nice rhyme. ( dun know how to type Chinese, maybe some one can translate )
Cyberknight
13-10-13, 21:36
Thermofisher,
Actually your current 2 bedder is still a good space for 2 toddler and both of you. Spend a bit of $$ to renovate e unit such as double decker beds. Foldable furniture will give all a lot more space.
Use vertical spaces for storage.
I think that will cost less than any absd taxes.
If you need some inspiration. Pay a visit to the glades : convertible home.
Bro, today I good mood.... I share my life philosophy and what I see thru my eye... This is a personal view and each of u will also have your own view...
Money
I find, in life, people say money is not important, happy can already.... The issue is when something strikes u whereby u need the money??? Healthcare, incidences, etc.... So u really need to decide if money is important or not.... different people have different needs and aspirations... And I am not here to pass judgement..... Just sharing a thought provocative issue.. To me, money cannot solve all problems but money can solve many problems...
To spend now or later (to save now or later)
Personally, I have been very thrifty in my earlier years... In the past 7 years or so, I have been indulging quite a fair bit as I felt I have saved enough and the family will be provided for even when I kick the bucket...
The question at the back of many is - if I don't spend now, what if I kick the bucket??? The same can be said about, if I spend now, will I have enough when i retire...
There is no sure answer to that... It is a flip of the coin... So u just have to decide what kind of person u are and plan accordingly....
Life is full of mysteries, we should love to explore and be happy each day....
Agree... Life is not about money... But without it, can u live a happier life... I have no answer ot this conundrum...
:cheers1:
bro, thanks for sharing. i share the same philosophy as you - money shld have enuff to be comfortable, but dun have to be excessive until you stop appreciating money (the way you appreciate it when u were poorer).
money... have enuff. then shld spend to make oneself happy. but how much is enuff? ownself have to measure.
but let me share something spiritual with you. ok, i am not christian, in fact i am free thinker. but something i believe in. God will have a way for you, if you believe in Him, that even in the worse of circumstances, there will be a way out. i admit - i believe this is true, but i dun intend to test it. that's why i am still saving hard to pay off my ppty. :D
50 is a good age to retire with about another 23-28 years based on the current life span of people in Singapore. What if the person is having good salary (top 5-8% of income earner in sigapore) in a not so stressful job do except with some occasional office politics? Should the person go for early retirement having achieved all those that you have mentioned and more? It can be a dilemma. There is always a tendency for people to try to earn as much as he could when the opportunity is there. :)
i am in this situation. i dun mean the top 5-8% part. i mean the "not so stressful job with no office politics". so i am happy to work here until i drop dead.
blackjack21trader
14-10-13, 16:51
I have been forced to retire now at age 45 :(
PLEASE REMOVE THE SSD and ABSD !
I have been forced to retire now at age 45 :(
PLEASE REMOVE THE SSD and ABSD !
yucks! pui! I dun believe u r only 45yo! :(
u chao chao 55yo liao :tongue3:
yucks! pui! I dun believe u r only 45yo! :(
u chao chao 55yo liao :tongue3:
have you read his "autobiography"? where the father kena stabbed a few times, he got give his age.
... the top 5-8% part...
from this website : http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
top 5% cutoff is 260k
top 8% cutoff is 190k
have you read his "autobiography"? where the father kena stabbed a few times, he got give his age.
nope, Im a new comer :o
Does it include bonus?
according to that website, it's assessable income. that means yes.
it even includes rental income.
kind of low here isn't it ? where in this forum everyone was talking about multiple properties and xxk rental income per month etc ;)
http://app.mof.gov.sg/newsroom_details.aspx?type=parliamentary&cmpar_year=2012&news_sid=20121112925263937069
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121114-383454.html
Top 1% earns 700k:)
So we have many 1% in our dwelling here... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
amk, u can now rub shoulders with them. :D
So we have many 1% in our dwelling here... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
D
My point was, it seems there are many 1% in THIS forum, judging by the tone of many posters here.. ( if you dun have capacity to invest in GCB or 10 mil projects, you dun talk about them :cool: )
On the other hand, 260k as cutoff for 5% is indeed low. This tenant of mine, middle manager only, already 20k a month before housing allowance. Can't imagine he will be top 5% already. I honestly suspect that website is not very accurate.
I have been forced to retire now at age 45 :(
PLEASE REMOVE THE SSD and ABSD !
Same as me... i also `forced' to retire when i was 45
Some people may prefer to invest in a few 3 million properties instead of 1 15 million property.
My point was, it seems there are many 1% in THIS forum, judging by the tone of many posters here.. ( if you dun have capacity to invest in GCB or 10 mil projects, you dun talk about them :cool: )
On the other hand, 260k as cutoff for 5% is indeed low. This tenant of mine, middle manager only, already 20k a month before housing allowance. Can't imagine he will be top 5% already. I honestly suspect that website is not very accurate.
My point was, it seems there are many 1% in THIS forum, judging by the tone of many posters here.. ( if you dun have capacity to invest in GCB or 10 mil projects, you dun talk about them :cool: )
On the other hand, 260k as cutoff for 5% is indeed low. This tenant of mine, middle manager only, already 20k a month before housing allowance. Can't imagine he will be top 5% already. I honestly suspect that website is not very accurate.
Brudder, u must look into the industry.... It is not every middle manager earn 20k/mth.... The industry u are in really determines the salary....
Many more in 1-2% here.
My point was, it seems there are many 1% in THIS forum, judging by the tone of many posters here.. ( if you dun have capacity to invest in GCB or 10 mil projects, you dun talk about them :cool: )
On the other hand, 260k as cutoff for 5% is indeed low. This tenant of mine, middle manager only, already 20k a month before housing allowance. Can't imagine he will be top 5% already. I honestly suspect that website is not very accurate.
My point was, it seems there are many 1% in THIS forum, judging by the tone of many posters here.. ( if you dun have capacity to invest in GCB or 10 mil projects, you dun talk about them :cool: )
On the other hand, 260k as cutoff for 5% is indeed low. This tenant of mine, middle manager only, already 20k a month before housing allowance. Can't imagine he will be top 5% already. I honestly suspect that website is not very accurate.
Look at page 7/24
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/uploadedFiles/About_IRAS/Annual_report/Appendices(3)(1).pdf
Look at page 7/24
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/uploadedFiles/About_IRAS/Annual_report/Appendices(3)(1).pdf
bro, u are really the statistics guy.
but i notice that it is nil for the 20,000 & below group for the "number of tax payers" group. does it mean this table only talking about pple who earn more than 20k/year? then that does not constitute the entire working cum tax paying population in sgp.
bro, u are really the statistics guy.
but i notice that it is nil for the 20,000 & below group for the "number of tax payers" group. does it mean this table only talking about pple who earn more than 20k/year? then that does not constitute the entire working cum tax paying population in sgp.
Bro, they compute based on tax payers...
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=1190
Anyone earning 20k and below per year do not need to pay taxes... So calculation based on % on tax payers... So the % is lower if u include all workers....
Stats are important to provide u a benchmark to determine many factors.... Example : your market position, potential growth, etc... Relative to the market... So, yes, I am a stats guy and I use that to run the biz.... :)
yucks! pui! I dun believe u r only 45yo! :(
u chao chao 55yo liao :tongue3:
his body is 45 his brain is 55....his brother is 30:D:D:D
his body is 45 his brain is 55....his brother is 30:D:D:D
how come u noe his vital statistics so well? :D
hor, hor, dun tell me ....... :scared-4:
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