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Mickey Mouse
24-10-13, 15:43
Hi Fellow Gurus,

Given the large number of MM completion in Geylang in the next few years, my questions are:-

i) Will there be a significant drop in price of MMs when landlords decided to sell them when they're unable to rent them out for a profit?

ii) Understand that currently a 2-bedder MM could fetch a rather decent monthly rent of about $2300 to $3200. However with the increase of MMs, what would be the impact to the rental yield?

Thanks in advance.

mermaid
24-10-13, 16:23
it's all depending on the location of yr MM la. If yr MM is well located, having more supply than demand in the market will not affect u.
those nid to worry shd be those MM located in not so accessible areas, low flr etc.

Cupcakes
24-10-13, 16:39
it's all depending on the location of yr MM la. If yr MM is well located, having more supply than demand in the market will not affect u.
those nid to worry shd be those MM located in not so accessible areas, low flr etc.

wat's wrong with low floor?

mermaid
24-10-13, 16:54
wat's wrong with low floor?

nothing wrong, but if a landlord got 2 units to rent out in the same project, same facing, same amt. will u, as a tenant choose the 2nd floor or 10th floor?

Ringo33
24-10-13, 16:55
it's all depending on the location of yr MM la. If yr MM is well located, having more supply than demand in the market will not affect u.
those nid to worry shd be those MM located in not so accessible areas, low flr etc.


Where do you think are the good and bad locations for MM?

Ringo33
24-10-13, 16:57
nothing wrong, but if a landlord got 2 units to rent out in the same project, same facing, same amt. will u, as a tenant choose the 2nd floor or 10th floor?

2nd floor will be cheaper to buy than 10th, so its perfectly logical to have the 2nd floor rented out at cheaper than 10th floor. And that might not always be the case either.

babyt
24-10-13, 17:07
make sure ur MM units come w unique layout lor?

I think my 1loft duplex unit quite unique leh...somemore mine top floor w open balcony so called 'penthouse' lol

where u can find open roof balcony for MM?

thomastansb
24-10-13, 18:00
Based on my experience, floors doesn't matter. Doesn't mean high floor will fetch higher rental or rent out easier. If I take an average, high floor rental is similar to low floor rental.




nothing wrong, but if a landlord got 2 units to rent out in the same project, same facing, same amt. will u, as a tenant choose the 2nd floor or 10th floor?

fiat500
24-10-13, 19:18
Based on my experience, floors doesn't matter. Doesn't mean high floor will fetch higher rental or rent out easier. If I take an average, high floor rental is similar to low floor rental.

Higher floors have slight advantage based on same layout n facing.
They will be the 1s to be rented out 1st n in fact alot of tenants wont mind paying slightly more for a higher floor unit..

Ringo33
24-10-13, 19:23
Higher floors have slight advantage based on same layout n facing.
They will be the 1s to be rented out 1st n in fact alot of tenants wont mind paying slightly more for a higher floor unit..

Not always the case. Some tenants are afraid of heights. And if you are facing greenery, you will get a nicer resort feel on the lower floor.

Eh
24-10-13, 19:28
Hi Fellow Gurus,

Given the large number of MM completion in Geylang in the next few years, my questions are:-

i) Will there be a significant drop in price of MMs when landlords decided to sell them when they're unable to rent them out for a profit?

ii) Understand that currently a 2-bedder MM could fetch a rather decent monthly rent of about $2300 to $3200. However with the increase of MMs, what would be the impact to the rental yield?

Thanks in advance.

What do u mean by unable to rent them out for a profit? Is it rental price more than installment then difference consider your so called "profit"? Please define coz I don't understand.

If there are high demand for MM, an increase of MM will not be an issue.

mermaid
24-10-13, 19:36
Based on my experience, floors doesn't matter. Doesn't mean high floor will fetch higher rental or rent out easier. If I take an average, high floor rental is similar to low floor rental.

but hv u encounter cases whereby yr low floor unit is rivalling wif yr neighbour's high flr one at the same time?

den based on yr past encounters yr ppty at which loc get rented out easily?

Ringo33
24-10-13, 19:41
it's all depending on the location of yr MM la. If yr MM is well located, having more supply than demand in the market will not affect u.
those nid to worry shd be those MM located in not so accessible areas, low flr etc.

Where do you think are the good and bad locations for MM?

mermaid
24-10-13, 19:44
Where do you think are the good and bad locations for MM?

Im merely a greenhorn. r u sure my opinion is reliable?

fiat500
24-10-13, 20:16
Not always the case. Some tenants are afraid of heights. And if you are facing greenery, you will get a nicer resort feel on the lower floor.

Majority of tenants prefer higher floors if given the choice.
The trend is higher floors will be rented out faster than lower floor units for same stack n facing.

Eh
24-10-13, 20:35
Majority of tenants prefer higher floors if given the choice.
The trend is higher floors will be rented out faster than lower floor units for same stack n facing.

If it is a new top project, the rental price same and requests by tenant fully met by landlords then more likely they will choose high floor, same stack and facing.

Other than that, it depends on circumstances coz higher floor doesn't really mean a lot to majority of tenants.

fiat500
24-10-13, 20:42
If it is a new top project, the rental price same and requests by tenant fully met by landlords then more likely they will choose high floor, same stack and facing.

Other than that, it depends on circumstances coz higher floor doesn't really mean a lot to majority of tenants.

Imagine u are the tenant yourself, if u are offered a 3rd floor n 12th floor unit same facing..Which would u choose?
Of coz it matters to tenants cos they are just like u and me.

Eh
24-10-13, 20:50
Imagine u are the tenant yourself, if u are offered a 3rd floor n 12th floor unit same facing..Which would u choose?
Of coz it matters to tenants cos they are just like u and me.

If the 12th floor unit is rundown compare to 3rd floor, they will choose 3rd floor. If the 12th floor unit has more unnecessary items and furnitures in the unit than 3rd floor, they will choose 3rd floor. Those are just a couple of example. Floor level is not a major criteria when a tenant choose a unit.

fiat500
24-10-13, 20:57
If the 12th floor unit is rundown compare to 3rd floor, they will choose 3rd floor. If the 12th floor unit has more unnecessary items and furnitures in the unit than 3rd floor, they will choose 3rd floor. Those are just a couple of example. Floor level is not a major criteria when a tenant choose a unit.

Not talking about contents of the house..
Just comparing high floor and low floor only.

Eh
24-10-13, 21:02
Imo,it is a criteria.I do not agree with your views.

It is a criteria. But not a major criteria.

fiat500
24-10-13, 21:08
It is a criteria. But not a major criteria.
But imo,it's a major criteria.. :cheers1:

Ringo33
24-10-13, 21:09
Majority of tenants prefer higher floors if given the choice.
The trend is higher floors will be rented out faster than lower floor units for same stack n facing.

I can tell you that many of the high rental yield MM projects in Singapore are low rise. And the reason is because in Europe, USA and even Australia, many people are not use to living in high rise apartment.

Eh
24-10-13, 21:16
But imo,it's a major criteria.. :cheers1:

Good for you then.

fiat500
24-10-13, 21:21
I can tell you that many of the high rental yield MM projects in Singapore are low rise. And the reason is because in Europe, USA and even Australia, many people are not use to living in high rise apartment.
That's becos so far majority of mm units are built low rise..
Tenants do not have a wide choice of building heights when choosing mm units...

fiat500
24-10-13, 21:25
Good for you then.

To each its own..
No right or wrong in whosoever opinion. :cheers1:

Ringo33
24-10-13, 21:30
That's becos so far majority of mm units are built low rise..
Tenants do not have a wide choice of building heights when choosing mm units...



In CCR alone, there are plenty of high rise MM apartments, but it seems to me that the more in demand MM projects are still the low rise.

Tenants do have plenty of choices for high rise MM. You can check out the supply of MM from this site

https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-units

fiat500
24-10-13, 21:38
In CCR alone, there are plenty of high rise MM apartments, but it seems to me that the more in demand MM projects are still the low rise.

Tenants do have plenty of choices for high rise MM. You can check out the supply of MM from this site

https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-units

Many of the high rise mms stated there are not even top yet. So it cannot be taken into a/c whether high rise or low rise are more popular.
Another thing is most of the high rise mm are more atas, rental price definitely higher..Tenants of mm generally hv lower budget.

Ringo33
24-10-13, 21:45
Many of the high rise mms stated there are not even top yet. So it cannot be taken into a/c.
Icon is not even a mm project, there are no under 500sq ft units there but
why is it listed there?

technically ICON is not MM because its bigger than 500sqft. but for tenant looking for a studio apartment in high rise or low rise, its not going be deal breaker if its 499sqft or 501 sqft.

There are several highrise MM project along RV, Newton that has TOP. You can use the rental yield as a comparison to low rise MM.

fiat500
24-10-13, 21:54
technically ICON is not MM because its bigger than 500sqft. but for tenant looking for a studio apartment in high rise or low rise, its not going be deal breaker if its 499sqft or 501 sqft.

There are several highrise MM project along RV, Newton that has TOP. You can use the rental yield as a comparison to low rise MM.

the highrise mm generally are more expensive thus generating lower rental yield compared to the low rise mm which are less expensive.
No reason why high rise mm are less popular than low rise.
In time to come, high rise mm will be even more popular when altez, skysuites, devonshire residences, spottiswoode etc.. have top.

Singleton
24-10-13, 22:06
Generally rental yield for lower floors is going to be higher than higher floors unless higher floor has a premium view.

There will be people who like higher floors and others who like lower floors.

If there is a choice bet 2nd floor or at least mid floor or higher, most would go for the higher floor if rental difference is the same or not too different.
Have made this choice before, its quite an easy decision.

Of course other variables such as view, renovation etc may override choice of floor.

Ringo33
24-10-13, 22:33
the highrise mm generally are more expensive thus generating lower rental yield compared to the low rise mm which are less expensive.
No reason why high rise mm are less popular than low rise.
In time to come, high rise mm will be even more popular when altez, skysuites, devonshire residences, spottiswoode etc.. have top.

Buyer pays the premium, tenant doesnt necessary so.

fiat500
25-10-13, 04:09
Buyer pays the premium, tenant doesnt necessary so.

That's what i meant! Low rental yield doesn't mean it's not popular..

Ringo33
25-10-13, 07:51
That's what i meant! Low rental yield doesn't mean it's not popular..

if its popular, the rental yield will be high because there will be many tenants competing for it. basic supply and demand

irisng
25-10-13, 08:38
If for me, I will choose middle floor, not too high and not too low. :ashamed1:

fiat500
25-10-13, 09:55
if its popular, the rental yield will be high because there will be many tenants competing for it. basic supply and demand

Any examples to substantiate your statement?

DC33_2008
25-10-13, 10:27
MM in places with lots of HDB flats in close proximity will face fierce competition. Same rent but can get a larger unit.
Where do you think are the good and bad locations for MM?

Ringo33
25-10-13, 10:28
Any examples to substantiate your statement?

If you are saying that higher floor MM are more popular then there is no reason why tenant are not willing to pay a premium for higher floor.

This is basic law of supply and demand in a free market, there is nothing to substantiate.

Ringo33
25-10-13, 10:33
MM in places with lots of HDB flats in close proximity will face fierce competition. Same rent but can get a larger unit.

People who are willing to pay more than $2500 per month to rent a Mickey Mouse apartment, are not those who are looking for size. Its the lifestyle that they are after.

What you say about HDB are more relevant to larger apartment such as 2 to 3 bedder because they are both comparable in size. Then again, people are paying a premium for condo because of lifestyle not space.

fiat500
25-10-13, 10:34
If you are saying that higher floor MM are more popular then there is no reason why tenant are not willing to pay a premium for higher floor.

This is basic law of supply and demand in a free market, there is nothing to substantiate.

Higher floor doesn't mean the rental is substantially higher.
At most it's only marginally higher if not it can be on par with lower floor unit.
Main difference is higher floor unit will be rented out faster same facing same interior condition.
Higher floor is still more popular ultimately!

astroboy8681
25-10-13, 10:39
Higher floor doesn't mean the rental is substantially higher.
At most it's only marginally higher if not it can be on par with lower floor unit.
Main difference is higher floor unit will be rented out faster same facing same interior condition.
Higher floor is still more popular ultimately!

don't bother about him because he has landed dreams... he's talking nonsensically down on landed hoping to land one but as we all know he probably has nothing but a good set of googling skills, period.

hence he cannot comprehend on rental of high vs mid vs low floor theorem...

fiat500
25-10-13, 10:48
don't bother about him because he has landed dreams... he's talking nonsensically down on landed hoping to land one but as we all know he probably has nothing but a good set of googling skills, period.

hence he cannot comprehend on rental of high vs mid vs low floor theorem...
Ya, true.. :cheers4:

Ringo33
25-10-13, 10:50
Higher floor doesn't mean the rental is substantially higher.
At most it's only marginally higher if not it can be on par with lower floor unit.
Main difference is higher floor unit will be rented out faster same facing same interior condition.
Higher floor is still more popular ultimately!

Which also mean owner of higher floor units are willing to accept lower rental yield to secure tenant. And if lower floor units are willing to accept similar rental yield, their units will also fly off the shelf.

So as an investor for MM looking for rental yield, will it better to buy low or high rise MM?

fiat500
25-10-13, 11:01
:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2::tongue2::tongue2::tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

astroboy8681
25-10-13, 11:14
:cheers4::cheers4::cheers4::cheers4::cheers4::cheers4::cheers4::cheers4:

DC33_2008
25-10-13, 11:24
There is another dimension which is the profile of the tenants as it will dictates the rental price. There is a good correlation between salary and industry. There is a varying degree of lifestyle: Great, good or mediocre lifestyle.
People who are willing to pay more than $2500 per month to rent a Mickey Mouse apartment, are not those who are looking for size. Its the lifestyle that they are after.

What you say about HDB are more relevant to larger apartment such as 2 to 3 bedder because they are both comparable in size. Then again, people are paying a premium for condo because of lifestyle not space.

Ringo33
25-10-13, 11:27
There is another dimension which is the profile of the tenants as it will dictates the rental price. There is a good correlation between salary and industry. There is a varying degree of lifestyle: Great, good or mediocre lifestyle.

lets not side track. We are talking about MM rental potential and I am asking Mermaid where are the good and bad locations.

fiat500
25-10-13, 11:35
对牛弹琴。:sleep:

riverfish
25-10-13, 11:38
Btw one on low floor ($2300 rent) & one on high floor ($2500):

let's say interior furnishings same for both, expat's accommodation paid by company allows for $2500 budget, I would say more likely the expat will go for the higher floor with a "view", than the lower floor with no view.

of course there are always pple who prefer low floors. Generally for investments purposes, I do agree that it is better to get mid-low floors, based on rental yield calculation.

Rosy
25-10-13, 11:43
Btw one on low floor ($2300 rent) & one on high floor ($2500):

let's say interior furnishings same for both, expat's accommodation paid by company allows for $2500 budget, I would say more likely the expat will go for the higher floor with a "view", than the lower floor with no view.

of course there are always pple who prefer low floors. Generally for investments purposes, I do agree that it is better to get mid-low floors, based on rental yield calculation.

What if both low and high floor do not have views?

riverfish
25-10-13, 11:46
What if both low and high floor do not have views?

Then the lower floor being cheaper than the higher floor, is a better buy, from an investment perspective, since the tenant would unlikely be willing to pay a premium for the higher floor which does not have a view (i.e. no diff from lower floor).

Rosy
25-10-13, 11:48
MM in places with lots of HDB flats in close proximity will face fierce competition. Same rent but can get a larger unit.

Most mm that TOP are currently in the mature estate where the hdbs are generally more than 30yo. So mm will have a great advantage over older hdbs. Just imagine u are a single looking for a place near city fringe with budget of 2.5k, will u choose a 30yo 6xxsqft 3rm flat or less than 5yo mm of 4xxsqft?

However, those mm in punggol area for eg may have a problem as the flats there are quite new. And what happens when mm gets old?

DC33_2008
25-10-13, 11:54
Thanks for answering R33 question on location of MM.
Most mm that TOP are currently in the mature estate where the hdbs are generally more than 30yo. So mm will have a great advantage over older hdbs. Just imagine u are a single looking for a place near city fringe with budget of 2.5k, will u choose a 30yo 6xxsqft 3rm flat or less than 5yo mm of 4xxsqft?

However, those mm in punggol area for eg may have a problem as the flats there are quite new. And what happens when mm gets old?

Rosy
25-10-13, 11:55
There is another dimension which is the profile of the tenants as it will dictates the rental price. There is a good correlation between salary and industry. There is a varying degree of lifestyle: Great, good or mediocre lifestyle.

Mm developments will have a better environment and neighbours as compared to hdbs. U will not see 8 workers renting a unit next door for sure.

riverfish
25-10-13, 11:58
lets not side track. We are talking about MM rental potential and I am asking Mermaid where are the good and bad locations.

For MMs, I think being within 10 mins walk to MRT station is impt, cos singles expats are an impt target group for MMs. You would expect many of them to be without cars. Whereas those with kids and wife in tow, looking for bigger units, more likely for them to get a car for convenience, hence they may not need to be near MRT station.

Rosy
25-10-13, 12:02
For MMs, I think being within 10 mins walk to MRT station is impt, cos singles expats are an impt target group for MMs. You would expect many of them to be without cars. Whereas those with kids and wife in tow, looking for bigger units, more likely for them to get a car for convenience, hence they may not need to be near MRT station.

I believe mm in city or fringe areas will be a good bet. Those mm in balestier area are doing quite well without mrt. There are plenty of buses in city/fringe.

For ocr, be it 1 or 3 bedder, mrt is quite impt i believe.

DC33_2008
25-10-13, 12:12
The richer expats in the CBD/city fringe will use taxi. They can claim for it.
For MMs, I think being within 10 mins walk to MRT station is impt, cos singles expats are an impt target group for MMs. You would expect many of them to be without cars. Whereas those with kids and wife in tow, looking for bigger units, more likely for them to get a car for convenience, hence they may not need to be near MRT station.

Ringo33
25-10-13, 12:15
For MMs, I think being within 10 mins walk to MRT station is impt, cos singles expats are an impt target group for MMs. You would expect many of them to be without cars. Whereas those with kids and wife in tow, looking for bigger units, more likely for them to get a car for convenience, hence they may not need to be near MRT station.

Yes, MM located near MRT station are the best bet, even better if you have amenities like supermarket, food court or restaurant nearby.

riverfish
25-10-13, 12:24
The richer expats in the CBD/city fringe will use taxi. They can claim for it.

The problem with taxis is that it can be damn difficult to get one during peak hours, & in city centre. You call & call, forever you are put on hold, no taxis.
That is why being near MRT is still impt.

DC33_2008
25-10-13, 12:30
It is always good to be in close proximity to mrt station, ie less than 200m. If you look at the mrt network, it converges as it goes into the CBD. Condos in the city fringe and CBD usually has a few lines to choose from.
The problem with taxis is that it can be damn difficult to get one during peak hours, & in city centre. You call & call, forever you are put on hold, no taxis.
That is why being near MRT is still impt.

Patrickstar
25-10-13, 12:55
I feel that buying MM units in the far flung suburbs is a risk unless quantum is low. Strategically , I would purchase an MM unit in areas where there are no public housing around to eliminate competition. MM units in condos with facilities will stand a better chance of renting out compared to MMs in boutique developments. Again that varies from location to location.

siewsphone
28-10-13, 13:27
Then the lower floor being cheaper than the higher floor, is a better buy, from an investment perspective, since the tenant would unlikely be willing to pay a premium for the higher floor which does not have a view (i.e. no diff from lower floor).

But higher floor has lower noise from the street right?

zeamybro
28-10-13, 16:56
But higher floor has lower noise from the street right?

I think there were some studies showing it is noisiest from the 5th to 8th floor, assuming there are trees or other low rise structures along the street to block off the traffic noise for the lower floors. I have a 9th floor unit and it's noisier than my 3rd floor neighbour.

Advantage of lower floors is you get to enjoy the greeneries directly from your windows without the need to peer down. To me I will either get very high floor with unblocked views , or low floors with greenery views. Mid floors, unless it's unblocked, is often neither here nor there

iridrium
28-10-13, 17:01
But higher floor has lower noise from the street right?

Sound travel upwards. The higher the units, the nosier. So if you stay next to express way, the quietest unit will be ground level.

That also explains why landed are usually located beside expressway.:sleep:

rontan_83
28-10-13, 17:45
i hv purchased 1 MM unit at lorong 24 geylang...dunno whether can lease out to caucasian expat or not....

teddybear
28-10-13, 17:51
Pardon me to tell the truth:

"1) Sound travel upwards.
2) The higher the units, the nosier.
3) So if you stay next to express way, the quietest unit will be ground level."

Above 3 statements are all MYTHs!

They defy sound theory which is based on facts, while above 3 statements are just myths and based on friction stories.




Sound travel upwards. The higher the units, the nosier. So if you stay next to express way, the quietest unit will be ground level.

That also explains why landed are usually located beside expressway.:sleep:

star
28-10-13, 18:01
Low floor for me. Easier to sell as quantum is low. Better rental yield.

siewsphone
29-10-13, 11:56
It is hard for me to accept that if I stay at ground floor and someone is playing fire cracker outside my unit which is on the street, I get lesser noise than those staying at level 5 :confused:


Pardon me to tell the truth:

"1) Sound travel upwards.
2) The higher the units, the nosier.
3) So if you stay next to express way, the quietest unit will be ground level."

Above 3 statements are all MYTHs!

They defy sound theory which is based on facts, while above 3 statements are just myths and based on friction stories.

zeamybro
29-10-13, 15:09
It is hard for me to accept that if I stay at ground floor and someone is playing fire cracker outside my unit which is on the street, I get lesser noise than those staying at level 5 :confused:

Theoretically .. The closer you are to the sound source the clearer you can hear it.. But for units along the highways or expressways, there are usually trees and foliage along the perimeter to block off or reflect some of the traffic noise. So they may seem quieter than those in the mid-high floors..

Found this from the internet
https://www.facebook.com/SkylineAtBukitBatok/posts/213579085411522

siewsphone
29-10-13, 16:28
Ok, in this case it make sense if they is an object between you and the sound source.


Theoretically .. The closer you are to the sound source the clearer you can hear it.. But for units along the highways or expressways, there are usually trees and foliage along the perimeter to block off or reflect some of the traffic noise. So they may seem quieter than those in the mid-high floors..

Found this from the internet
https://www.facebook.com/SkylineAtBukitBatok/posts/213579085411522

PropertyHound
31-10-13, 00:08
wat's wrong with low floor?

staying on low floor has its advantages too, say like in a fire or lift breakdown.

PropertyHound
31-10-13, 00:09
:scared-5:
wat's wrong with low floor?

staying on low floor has its advantages too, say like in a fire or lift breakdown.

newbie11
31-10-13, 00:42
staying on low floor has its advantages too, say like in a fire or lift breakdown.

I live units above trees, enjoy shade, dew and birds

irisng
02-11-13, 07:22
I live units above trees, enjoy shade, dew and birds

But sometimes birds are very noisy especially early in the morning, can set as an alarm clock.:D