View Full Version : Dilemma - BUY OR NO BUY
Thermofisher
26-10-13, 01:45
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
What is the different?
Yo! I am new to this forum and will want to get advice from all of experience home buyers here. A little bit of our profile here. My spouse and myself have combined household income around 10k. We are both in our mid30s and currently staying in 2 bedder apartment with outstanding bank loan of 500k. Our saving is around 100k. My wife wanna change to a newer apartment or would say a bigger one. We are wondering if we should sell away the current unit in exchange for a new bigger one? Or we keep the existing one and try to get another BUC? Any idea?
Seems that your wife wants a bigger place, yet near workplace. Why not consider a not so old leasehold condo in D5? Eg blue horizon @ 1100psf?
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...to/861670.html
Thermofisher
26-10-13, 09:02
What is the different?
I wan to get La Fiesta for investment cum stay purpose. You think it is worthwhile?
Thermofisher
26-10-13, 09:06
Seems that your wife wants a bigger place, yet near workplace. Why not consider a not so old leasehold condo in D5? Eg blue horizon @ 1100psf?
We have limited budget. Our total savings is around 125k.
We have limited budget. Our total savings is around 125k.
you should find a place in the same vicinity
There's so many to choose from, why Fiesta which is far from your current place.
But it's best you stay put as your savings is not a lot and will come useful if recession hits you.
We have limited budget. Our total savings is around 125k.
how much is the price of 3br la fiesta?
thomastansb
26-10-13, 09:35
I will never buy Sengkang. Go take a look at the vision. Similar PSF also.
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
We have limited budget. Our total savings is around 125k.
10k income and 125k savings with 450k debt is about just right. Do not load additional debt.
If space is a concern for your 2 growing kids, then ask your wife whether she is willing to stay in a 4/5 room flat in areas like queenstown, commonwealth, dover etc. with cov sliding, it is a good time shopping for resale flat and sell your condo. 2cents.
you have posted this before.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=19002
does starting a new thread will make forummers advice to you any different?
try to start a new thread with the following
"i have savings of $500k."
"our monthly income is $20k."
then you will find out that the forummers advice will be different.
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
BUY Reason - because wife can't wait and nags at me everyday because everyone at her workplace and her cousins has all bought a condo.
NO BUY Reason - because I can buy cheaper next 2 years.
BUY Reason - because wife can't wait and nags at me everyday because everyone at her workplace and her cousins has all bought a condo.
NO BUY Reason - because I can buy cheaper next 2 years.
BUY already the wife still nag everyday coz too far..
:banghead:
Ur best bet is stay put and save up. Make best use of existing space by getting space saving furniture eg desk which can convert to bed.
http://smootree.com/product.php
la fiesta is good but your jurong condo also good. Jurong got big development coming and it is near to your workplace.
Who are your target tenant profiles for La Fiesta? Is there a real demand there?
Review the performance of Compass Point. If even that which is right above the interchange is sub standard yielding where do you think La Fiesta will take you? There is no growth story in Sengkang.
I suggest you look elsewhere if you cant tahan watching your 125k sit there eroding away due to inflation.
ABSD will take half of your savings, if you are getting something around 800k.
Even if decouple, still will take about a third. You sure about this?
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Your wife is right. Too far from workplace. Don't underestimate the time and effort spent in travelling back and forth. It really really eats into your quality time with the kids.
Continue to save up and wait for better opportunities. There is no rush to buy at this point in time.
Spoken from a woman/wife/mother's perspective.
Can you tolerate your wife nagging everyday if you bought it......:D:D:D !!!
Spoken from a man/Husband/father's perspective
Thermofisher
26-10-13, 14:36
ABSD will take half of your savings, if you are getting something around 800k.
Even if decouple, still will take about a third. You sure about this?
How does decouple works? Please share and recommend.
invigorated
26-10-13, 15:17
How does decouple works? Please share and recommend.
Your style of writing and posting reminds me of yowetan.
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
I would feel tat wif excess funds idling in the bank, buy seems to be the obvious course of action if u hv no other better way to reap a better return.
The main prob u hv now is yr proposal of La Fiesta has been rejected by yr wife.
U can still retain yr buy option, but perhaps consider other projects.
I give u an example.
Near mrt proj wif similar pricing as LF still hv Jewel@ buangkok & bartley ridge @ bartley.
In terms of cheaper psf pricing
LF > BR > J
In terms of amenities
LF > BR > J
In terms of worthiness of maint fees
BR > LF > J
In terms of location
BR > J > LF
In terms of quality of furnishing
J & BR > LF
In terms of floor plan
BR > J & LF
still hv T3 but I am unable to comment on it as I did not do a study.
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
listen to the wife ~
How does decouple work? Please share and recommend.
Best solution if you want to buy is decouple, as condo less complicated.
Transfer the current condo from shared property to your wife name. Your wife will likely be happier and nag less.
Buy whatever you wish as first property. Pay stamp duty according to first property rates. Gotta check with lawyer regarding precise figures though.
I would feel tat wif excess funds idling in the bank, buy seems to be the obvious course of action if u hv no other better way to reap a better return.
The main prob u hv now is yr proposal of La Fiesta has been rejected by yr wife.
U can still retain yr buy option, but perhaps consider other projects.
I give u an example.
Near mrt proj wif similar pricing as LF still hv Jewel@ buangkok & bartley ridge @ bartley.
In terms of cheaper psf pricing
LF > BR > J
In terms of amenities
LF > BR > J
In terms of worthiness of maint fees
BR > LF > J
In terms of location
BR > J > LF
In terms of quality of furnishing
J & BR > LF
In terms of floor plan
BR > J & LF
still hv T3 but I am unable to comment on it as I did not do a study.
You sure amenities BR better than jewel? Location better than LF and Jewel? To me all 3 location average only.
End of the day only those who have patience n buy during a time of fear will be the ultimate winners!
GUTS n PATIENCE !!!
HERD MENTALITY just won't work lah!
CAveat emptor unless one does not have a roof over one's head!
Your style of writing and posting reminds me of yowetan.
This time I agree with you.
You sure amenities BR better than jewel? Location better than LF and Jewel? To me all 3 location average only.
Of cos. Im very familar wif jewel de loc, amenities not convienent.
BR can walk to kensington sq, future bddr mkt sq or take 1 mrt ride to nex.
BR more centralised.
of cos definitely got better loc, but got tis type of $?
Mayb u give me suggestion lor.
Of cos. Im very familar wif jewel de loc, amenities not convienent.
BR can walk to kensington sq, future bddr mkt sq or take 1 mrt ride to nex.
BR more centralised.
of cos definitely got better loc, but got tis type of $?
Mayb u give me suggestion lor.
I guess you don't drive coz you didn't mention anything about the traffic condition.
I am surprised that you said you are very familiar with jewel the location? You stay nearby is it? I thought you are more familiar with BR than jewel location, since you bought a unit there.
I guess you don't drive coz you didn't mention anything about the traffic condition.
I am surprised that you said you are very familiar with jewel the location? You stay nearby is it? I thought you are more familiar with BR than jewel location, since you bought a unit there.
Cos last time I always go to the quartz mah :p nope, I stay in the east. Yes, I dun drive so traffic condition is quite irrelavant to me.
BR de loc I oso quite familar coz last time always go eden grove :p
Cos last time I always go to the quartz mah :p nope, I stay in the east. Yes, I dun drive so traffic condition is quite irrelavant to me.
BR de loc I oso quite familar coz last time always go eden grove :p
Ic. Ok let's leave it as it is then.
Ic. Ok let's leave it as it is then.
actually I missed LF jan launch, else I would most probably go for it too. Im very familar wif SK too, haha ...
Hey, u bot LF rite?
actually I missed LF jan launch, else I would most probably go for it too. Im very familar wif SK too, haha ...
Hey, u bot LF rite?
No :ashamed1: Personally I will try not to buy private properties that is further than my Hdb flat. Unless it is dirt cheap then... :p
I am only interested in D12, 15 and 19 with D19 for own stay.
Thermofisher
03-11-13, 10:47
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
Any brothers here can advice if we encash the jurong apartment and get alexandra interlace instead. Sales frm jurong shld return us 300k? Then we will use 300k+150k saving and get one 3 bedder unit in alexandra area. This plan advisable???
Any brothers here can advice if we encash the jurong apartment and get alexandra interlace instead. Sales frm jurong shld return us 300k? Then we will use 300k+150k saving and get one 3 bedder unit in alexandra area. This plan advisable???
any reason why u want to move alexandra other than bigger living space?
how much is a 3 bedder interlace? how much more mortgage u will be paying?
Thermofisher
03-11-13, 10:56
any reason why u want to move alexandra other than bigger living space?
how much is a 3 bedder interlace? how much more mortgage u will be paying?
Movin to alexandra becuz we both work along west coast...my wife works in the ARC and I am in pandan loop. I havent check that yet...can you help me estimate it? Srry abt it.
Currently Interlace developer units left 3+study onwards, about 2.5mil and above. So 5% booking, 15% exercise option. Maybe you should consider how much CPF OA you got as well. Then got all those stamp duty, misc fees, lawyer fees, etc.
Movin to alexandra becuz we both work along west coast...my wife works in the ARC and I am in pandan loop. I havent check that yet...can you help me estimate it? Srry abt it.
taking $2.5m as a yardstick, you'll be taking on a loan of $1.7-1.8mil.
be sure you can service the loan and i'm pretty sure you'll be hit by the TDSR
Any brothers here can advice if we encash the jurong apartment and get alexandra interlace instead. Sales frm jurong shld return us 300k? Then we will use 300k+150k saving and get one 3 bedder unit in alexandra area. This plan advisable???
Depends on whether you want to get out of the rat race through property investments.
If you have 1 property, you'll always be in the rat race because no matter how high property prices go, you can't cash out of the roof over your head.
If you have multiple properties, albeit smaller ones, you can get recurring income for the rest of your life.
Self-gratification now or later... :2cents:
It is better to stay in a comfortable and reasonably priced home and leave money for several investment properties than to buy a large and high-end place as home. It also helps to spread their risks with several properties collecting passive income.
Depends on whether you want to get out of the rat race through property investments.
If you have 1 property, you'll always be in the rat race because no matter how high property prices go, you can't cash out of the roof over your head.
If you have multiple properties, albeit smaller ones, you can get recurring income for the rest of your life.
Self-gratification now or later... :2cents:
taking $2.5m as a yardstick, you'll be taking on a loan of $1.7-1.8mil.
be sure you can service the loan and i'm pretty sure you'll be hit by the TDSR
TDSR is easy to clear, but not MSR. Not much he can buy with 3000 bucks installment plan @ 3.5% stress test interest rates.
TDSR is easy to clear, but not MSR. Not much he can buy with 3000 bucks installment plan @ 3.5% stress test interest rates.
are u sure the guy can clear TDSR? the loan quantum is $1.7-1.8m and even by today's low interest rate standards, the monthly quantum should be in the range of $6-7k per month.
are u sure the guy can clear TDSR? the loan quantum is $1.7-1.8m and even by today's low interest rate standards, the monthly quantum should be in the range of $6-7k per month.
Check MSR first. If you can't clear MSR, there is no need to check TDSR. Most people fail the MSR check.
Assuming he does a show hand, and takes a 25 year loan @ 3.5%. He is able to loan up to 600k. With his 450k available cash, he shouldnt be looking at anything beyond 1mil. I don't know how he is able to fill up a more than half a mill gap here (well maybe he will strike the ang pow toto in a few months time, we don't know.)
The current situation is very interesting to me, our government has been pumping in loads of ECs and HDBs. The buyers of these units will be removed from mass market condo demand immediately due to the MOP. In addition to this, max numbers of pte apts will be TOP in 2015 through 2016. This should add to the supply. Having said that, demand is really a weird thing, it is transient, it could appear one day and vanish another due to sentiments or emotions.
With the loan to deposit ratio crossing 100% in August/September, and the main transaction quantum stubborn resistance at around 1.2mil or maybe higher (units getting smaller to maintain this quantum), there is this indication of leverage stretch happening.
The next 5 years could be exciting. :-)
Check MSR first. If you can't clear MSR, there is no need to check TDSR. Most people fail the MSR check.
Assuming he does a show hand, and takes a 25 year loan @ 3.5%. He is able to loan up to 600k. With his 450k available cash, he shouldnt be looking at anything beyond 1mil. I don't know how he is able to fill up a more than half a mill gap here (well maybe he will strike the ang pow toto in a few months time, we don't know.)
The current situation is very interesting to me, our government has been pumping in loads of ECs and HDBs. The buyers of these units will be removed from mass market condo demand immediately due to the MOP. In addition to this, max numbers of pte apts will be TOP in 2015 through 2016. This should add to the supply. Having said that, demand is really a weird thing, it is transient, it could appear one day and vanish another due to sentiments or emotions.
With the loan to deposit ratio crossing 100% in August/September, and the main transaction quantum stubborn resistance at around 1.2mil or maybe higher (units getting smaller to maintain this quantum), there is this indication of leverage stretch happening.
The next 5 years could be exciting. :-)
honestly, i've been, like many others, waiting for prices to dip since 2011 but hey, aren't we all wrong?
when you see prices at jurong hitting $1700psf and you would think that's a big turnoff, aren't we all surprised by the throngs of carrotheads who lapped up J gateway like bees to honey (or flies to dung)?
Allthepies
06-11-13, 11:56
honestly, i've been, like many others, waiting for prices to dip since 2011 but hey, aren't we all wrong?
when you see prices at jurong hitting $1700psf and you would think that's a big turnoff, aren't we all surprised by the throngs of carrotheads who lapped up J gateway like bees to honey (or flies to dung)?
as long as they think there is money to be made, it will be a good deal to them..... Why is it always has to bring J gateway vs CCR psf into the picture? Like 76 shenton, V on shenton, not really much profit to be made. ..
as long as they think there is money to be made, it will be a good deal to them..... Why is it always has to bring J gateway vs CCR psf into the picture? Like 76 shenton, V on shenton, not really much profit to be made. ..
one will need to be very KAM GONG to use J Gatway to compare with CCR launches.
Allthepies
06-11-13, 12:29
The only Kam Gong is the one who didnt make money, regardless of the property he/she has bought is in CCR, RCR or OCR...
honestly, i've been, like many others, waiting for prices to dip since 2011 but hey, aren't we all wrong?
when you see prices at jurong hitting $1700psf and you would think that's a big turnoff, aren't we all surprised by the throngs of carrotheads who lapped up J gateway like bees to honey (or flies to dung)?
Haha, 2010 is safe entry and 2011 is where the signs of 'bullishness' appeared.
Property market is not stock pennies ie. Blumont, Skyone etc. It's heavy weight, will take quite a while to become flattish and change its dominant trend direction. Once the direction changes, you better get out of its way as the momentum is usually huge, albeit slow.
Anyway, I am a newbie. Only started seriously reading up on all these new rules upon receiving imperial edict from wife to recce for another place before 2017. Pls take my comments with a pinch of salt.
Someone mentioned earlier that its important to be able to earn money from the purchase. I agree with that wholeheartedly. To buy a property is never the issue, we can go to the showroom and sign the purchase documents anyday. The real challenge is to make a profit out of an investment with a limited resource.
Actually, OCR properties in heavy industrial town are just like penny stocks!
Didn't you see penny stocks prices go to sky and then crash?
We will see that same phenomenon for OCR properties in heavy industrial town in future...
buying and selling OCR properties, like penny stocks, may make some money but just that their prices raised are only for much shorter period and are not sustainable, just like price action for penny stocks! If you are investing for a long-term, always go for blue-chips!
Haha, 2010 is safe entry and 2011 is where the signs of 'bullishness' appeared.
Property market is not stock pennies ie. Blumont, Skyone etc. It's heavy weight, will take quite a while to become flattish and change its dominant trend direction. Once the direction changes, you better get out of its way as the momentum is usually huge, albeit slow.
Anyway, I am a newbie. Only started seriously reading up on all these new rules upon receiving imperial edict from wife to recce for another place before 2017. Pls take my comments with a pinch of salt.
Someone mentioned earlier that its important to be able to earn money from the purchase. I agree with that wholeheartedly. To buy a property is never the issue, we can go to the showroom and sign the purchase documents anyday. The real challenge is to make a profit out of an investment with a limited resource.
Actually, OCR properties in heavy industrial town are just like penny stocks!
Didn't you see penny stocks prices go to sky and then crash?
We will see that same phenomenon for OCR properties in heavy industrial town in future...
buying and selling OCR properties, like penny stocks, may make some money but just that their prices raised are only for much shorter period and are not sustainable, just like price action for penny stocks! If you are investing for a long-term, always go for blue-chips!
Hi Teddy
Your hypothesis is wrong
How can it be of a penny stock quality in the near future when it has the full backing from the Government ?
Actually, OCR properties in heavy industrial town are just like penny stocks!
Didn't you see penny stocks prices go to sky and then crash?
We will see that same phenomenon for OCR properties in heavy industrial town in future...
buying and selling OCR properties, like penny stocks, may make some money but just that their prices raised are only for much shorter period and are not sustainable, just like price action for penny stocks! If you are investing for a long-term, always go for blue-chips!
Errrr ... not in the position to comment on OCR vs Penny.
Anyway, when I was very into equities in the past, I got to know a group of people who are very into chart TA. One of them mentioned a rule of thumb pertaining to prices backtesting critical MA lines at unusual volumes.
Don't predict, but react. is what he said.
I think this rule could still find a good standing in property markets. There is a difference between "I think the price will shoot north, I buy and will squat there to wait for price appreciation" vs "OMG, prices are down 30% and market has rejected further downside at the support level, I buy."
and of course, you can react only if you have the capacity and is able to overcome the fear of purchase, usually associated with job lost etc. :-P
Allthepies
06-11-13, 17:35
Actually, OCR properties in heavy industrial town are just like penny stocks!
Didn't you see penny stocks prices go to sky and then crash?
We will see that same phenomenon for OCR properties in heavy industrial town in future...
buying and selling OCR properties, like penny stocks, may make some money but just that their prices raised are only for much shorter period and are not sustainable, just like price action for penny stocks! If you are investing for a long-term, always go for blue-chips!
Only Kam Gong still holds on to anything when the market crashes:) regardless of OCR or CCR or even super prime downtown core.....
The only time you may like to hold if and only if the property is fully paid up with profit money...
If $1m OCR property is penny stock, then a $3m CCR property will be a 3 penny stocks. But OCR penny stock will have higher dividend and higher trading volume and not to forget the growth stories behind these OCR penny stocks.
Penny stocks or not has to do with the quality, not the person/organization backing. Very often, they will make money and move on.
E.g., Punggol Waterfront - Make the hays while sun shine, now move on.
Now JLD - I am expecting that it is still same "make the hays while sun shine" then move on..... :beats-me-man:
You should be investing in the "MOVE ON TO" part and not the "NOW" part to make real money..... :o
Hi Teddy
Your hypothesis is wrong
How can it be of a penny stock quality in the near future when it has the full backing from the Government ?
Actually, OCR properties in heavy industrial town are just like penny stocks!
Didn't you see penny stocks prices go to sky and then crash?
We will see that same phenomenon for OCR properties in heavy industrial town in future...
buying and selling OCR properties, like penny stocks, may make some money but just that their prices raised are only for much shorter period and are not sustainable, just like price action for penny stocks! If you are investing for a long-term, always go for blue-chips!
If OCR private property is penny stocks, I do not mind have few penny stocks. I also do not mind if after that people call me penny man.
Ok, in this case, according to your definition, I am "kam gong" but doesn't matter as long as I had made good money. My feeling is people who are "kam gong" to you made much more money than you do based on your standard... I am super long-term once I lock-in... :beats-me-man:
Only Kam Gong still holds on to anything when the market crashes:) regardless of OCR or CCR or even super prime downtown core.....
The only time you may like to hold if and only if the property is fully paid up with profit money...
walkthetiger
06-11-13, 19:49
If $1m OCR property is penny stock.
…hah… At times, those are the ones easiest to be “over-cooked”.
Penny stocks or not has to do with the quality, not the person/organization backing. Very often, they will make money and move on.
E.g., Punggol Waterfront - Make the hays while sun shine, now move on.
Now JLD - I am expecting that it is still same "make the hays while sun shine" then move on..... :beats-me-man:
You should be investing in the "MOVE ON TO" part and not the "NOW" part to make real money..... :o
Hi Teddy
I see your view
but there is an old saying
"Beat dog also got to see who the owner is"
JLD story is not only back by an organisation
Its back up by the government
and if the government wants to make it happen who can stop it ?
Just like those blue chip in STI
who dares to short Singtel, SPH and those TH and GIC related companies ?
Stocks like Bluemont, Asiaons etc, at one time even rise to multi-billions $ market cap, but still penny stock! Penny stocks or not has to do with quality vs price and not just price alone! People who don't understand this principle will never make BIG money! :o
Talk of high dividends and growth stories, at one time the S-Chips has the best growth stories of >20% per year, and some give dividends up to the tune of >8% yield per year! So, this means they are not penny stocks? Fact is, they can't stand up to scrutiny, and many of these had bit the dusts, and some more may go the same way in next few years! :eek:
If $1m OCR property is penny stock, then a $3m CCR property will be a 3 penny stocks. But OCR penny stock will have higher dividend and higher trading volume and not to forget the growth stories behind these OCR penny stocks.
Punggol Waterfront also backed by govt isn't it? :scared-3:
Hi Teddy
I see your view
but there is an old saying
"Beat dog also got to see who the owner is"
JLD story is not only back by an organisation
Its back up by the government
and if the government wants to make it happen who can stop it ?
Just like those blue chip in STI
who dares to short Singtel, SPH and those TH and GIC related companies ?
Punggol Waterfront also backed by govt isn't it? :scared-3:
Yes it was backed by the government
But why it has not progress as planned you have to ask the relevant authority cos I do not have the answer
As for JLD, you can see the progress and development being made
If you care to be objective
do some research and you will know what I mean
Yes it was backed by the government
But why it has not progress as planned you have to ask the relevant authority cos I do not have the answer
As for JLD, you can see the progress and development being made
If you care to be objective
do some research and you will know what I mean
Frankly, I don't understand what's the debate about ... hah.
I agree with Teddy that you need growth story to minimize resistance and move the price. As mentioned by him, it is well known that smart money will flow in, churn, and then flow out to elsewhere.
I agree with Simi that defensive 'quality' projects will be harder to beat down.
If the strategy works for you and you feel comfortable with it, it's a good strategy. Don't really need to be affected by other's perspective ie friends, relatives, media etc etc.
But having an open mind will let you see and learn more. :)
Frankly, I don't understand what's the debate about ... hah.
I agree with Teddy that you need growth story to minimize resistance and move the price. As mentioned by him, it is well known that smart money will flow in, churn, and then flow out to elsewhere.
I agree with Simi that defensive 'quality' projects will be harder to beat down.
If the strategy works for you and you feel comfortable with it, it's a good strategy. Don't really need to be affected by other's perspective ie friends, relatives, media etc etc.
But having an open mind will let you see and learn more. :)
Hi PC08
The case in point is JLD whether her potential had been factored in
with the recent sell out of J Gateway
There are 2 ways of looking at it
1st Point : The recent debate in the other thread was that it had been sold well ahead of its curve at 15xxpsf to 17xxpsf therefore all the growth stories had been priced in. (Growth Potential)
2nd Point : Yes, I do agreed to certain extend on that(1st Pt) but what I saw will be the Impact when these projects are completed. Having the potential is one thing and the Impact is going to bring after that is another because then the value will definitely be higher than the 1st Pt.
With the Government plan to transform JLD and J Gateway into the 2nd biggest Commercial District outside of CBD is a great potential.
If this is realised then this potential will alleviate the area onto the next level.
So far can see all these happening slowly and surely according to Government Masterplan. (2nd Pt)
CFheers :cheers1::cheers1:
Stocks like Bluemont, Asiaons etc, at one time even rise to multi-billions $ market cap, but still penny stock! Penny stocks or not has to do with quality vs price and not just price alone! People who don't understand this principle will never make BIG money! :o
Talk of high dividends and growth stories, at one time the S-Chips has the best growth stories of >20% per year, and some give dividends up to the tune of >8% yield per year! So, this means they are not penny stocks? Fact is, they can't stand up to scrutiny, and many of these had bit the dusts, and some more may go the same way in next few years! :eek:
CCR property is over price, thats why prices are coming down and rental yield sucks. unfortunately, there is nothing much in CCR.
For a stocks to rise, there is no such thing as premium, or branded, it all boils down to market potential and their growth stories.
If you want to compare property to stocks, then I will tell you that Singapore as country is Bluechip, so please dont waste time trying to talk about s-chip penny stocks etc.
Allthepies
07-11-13, 06:48
Ok, in this case, according to your definition, I am "kam gong" but doesn't matter as long as I had made good money. My feeling is people who are "kam gong" to you made much more money than you do based on your standard... I am super long-term once I lock-in... :beats-me-man:
Yes yes, that is the point it doesn't really matter which and what properties you are buying as long as they make money FULL STOP. There is no such thing as buy CCR will sure make money and buy OCR will sure lose money. Cheers!
Wife work in the ARC Alexandar. I work in Pandan loop west coast. Household income near 10k only.
We have one 2 bedder (only 700+sqft) apartment in Jurong. We have two kids aged 4 and 5. We still have mortage loan of 450k, loan with standard chartered 1.05 base + sibor.
Now...I want to buy La Fiesta (with investment intention and of coz temporay stay) coz its affordable and price looks attractive. Wife not happy say place too far from workplace which is out of the way.
Now nid all experts comment and opinion - shld BUY or NOT?
BUY - Reason?
NO BUY - Reason?
Bro, if i am u, I will take next 2 yrs to save up more and then once yr 1st kid got into a primary school, buy a property that is right next to the school. The time saved from fetching them everyday will be worth it. Then u can rent out yr Jurong place for rental income. No point over stretch yrself now and then make yr life more stressful. Dun think with jus a savings of $100k and 450k debt and 2 kids is a comfortable place to be in when ressession hits. Unless both of u r working as civil servants which is pretty recession proof. Jus my thoughts.
Yap, you are right, at least we know there is ZERO heavy industry plant in CCR! What is roses to you is poison to us!
You might as well say in Singapore, everyone is a millionaire and there is no poor people around just like there is no penny stocks! :hell-hath-no-fury:
CCR property is over price, thats why prices are coming down and rental yield sucks. unfortunately, there is nothing much in CCR.
For a stocks to rise, there is no such thing as premium, or branded, it all boils down to market potential and their growth stories.
If you want to compare property to stocks, then I will tell you that Singapore as country is Bluechip, so please dont waste time trying to talk about s-chip penny stocks etc.
Yap, you are right, at least we know there is ZERO heavy industry plant in CCR! What is roses to you is poison to us!
You might as well say in Singapore, everyone is a millionaire and there is no poor people around just like there is no penny stocks! :hell-hath-no-fury:
57% of PM2.5 pollution in Singapore comes from road transport and this include cars, taxi, bus, motorcycle truck etc. And we all know the traffic condition around CCR area are busiest, 7 days a week, even Saturday, LTA need to implement ERP to contain traffic congestion.
So you tell me, are you not afraid?
How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5! :doh:
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore! :hell-hath-no-fury:
57% of PM2.5 pollution in Singapore comes from road transport and this include cars, taxi, bus, motorcycle truck etc. And we all know the traffic condition around CCR area are busiest, 7 days a week, even Saturday, LTA need to implement ERP to contain traffic congestion.
So you tell me, are you not afraid?
How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5! :doh:
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore! :hell-hath-no-fury:
How about those toxic gases coming from shipping liners spread all over Singapore southern coast, I think the distant from the southern coast line to CCR ranges from ZERO to around 15km. So like you said, if you are within say 5km radius, you get hit most. And this include the entire D15. Dont believe? Trust you dont need a PhD to know where are all the shipping vessel located.
http://imageshack.us/a/img59/9310/64ng.jpg
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/don_diego_2000/IMG_3875_zpsfc83ba3e.jpg
How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5! :doh:
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Actually chemical plants and refinery do have their yearly maintenance shut down, so you are wrong to say they run 24 hours 365 days a week. This only goes to show to expose your limited knowledge about the chemical industry
The highest concentration of car emission is actually in CBD. What you eat, drink, wear and buy in CBD, are all delivered from warehouses and cold rooms from all over Singapore into CBD buy trucks, not BMW or Merc :)
And this exclude the number of diesel taxi, buses and goes in and out of CBD 365 day a week, heavy on saturday and sunday.
Actually chemical plants and refinery do have their yearly maintenance shut down, so you are wrong to say they run 24 hours 365 days a week. This only goes to show to expose your limited knowledge about the chemical industry
The highest concentration of car emission is actually in CBD. What you eat, drink, wear and buy in CBD, are all delivered from warehouses and cold rooms from all over Singapore into CBD buy trucks, not BMW or Merc :)
And this exclude the number of diesel taxi, buses and goes in and out of CBD 365 day a week, heavy on saturday and sunday.
According to NEA's probes' data, North has the highest concentration of PM2.5 and West has the lowest concentration of PM2.5. I know there are only abt 11 probes installed in Singapore, so the data may not be well represented.
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake? :rolleyes:
According to NEA's probes' data, North has the highest concentration of PM2.5 and West has the lowest concentration of PM2.5. I know there are only abt 11 probes installed in Singapore, so the data may not be well represented.
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake? :rolleyes:
Maybe the chimney are so.high that it got blown to other part of Singapore? :)
So now nea is wrong. Can you do.us a favour. Please write to them.
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake? :rolleyes:
Hi Teddy
like your good sense of humour :D:D
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake? :rolleyes:
wah, pollution talk is polluting the rest of the threads.
teddy, u said it yourself, west is heavy industry town. heavy industries produce heavy particles, whereas light industries produce light particles.
hence it is not strange that West has lower PM 2.5, because these are the lightest particulates.
now it is not strange if the west has higher PM10, because these are heavier particles, caused by heavy industries.
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake? :rolleyes:
Hah!
The western probe should be at NTU.
Anyway, try not to mix up PM2.5, SOX, NOX and VOCs. They are different .. I reckon there could be higher SOX, NOX and VOCs in the west.
Maybe the chimney are so.high that it got blown to other part of Singapore? :)
So now nea is wrong. Can you do.us a favour. Please write to them.
The stacks are high and depending on the wind direction, you could be at the receiving end of the pollution! Imagine, the pollutants exit the stack or what you termed chimney, and follows a Gaussian distribution path, and carried to your home by the monsoon wind!
The stacks are high and depending on the wind direction, you could be at the receiving end of the pollution! Imagine, the pollutants exit the stack or what you termed chimney, and follows a Gaussian distribution path, and carried to your home by the monsoon wind!
perhaps all the talk of trying to differentiate air quality within singapore island is just a waste of time because in the east, there have shipping liners along the coast line. airport in at Changi, and refinery at Pasir Gudang.
perhaps all the talk of trying to differentiate air quality within singapore island is just a waste of time because in the east, there have shipping liners along the coast line. airport in at Changi, and refinery at Pasir Gudang.
Yes, it is. It's too small to have significant concentration difference. But if you are physically in one of the chemical plants, you should be able to smell the VOCs. Let's stop at that, its not really meaningful to compare pollution concentration within a tiny island.
http://aqicn.org/city/singapore/central/
All the info u need
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong! :doh:
http://aqicn.org/city/singapore/central/
All the info u need
More info
http://esi.nus.edu.sg/docs/event/censam-esi-mini_seminar-sept_2011.pdf?Status=Master
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/nea-expand-tracking-pm25-air-pollutant-20131106
http://app2.nea.gov.sg/anti-pollution-radiation-protection/air-pollution-control/faqs-on-air-quality#q4
http://www.baq2012.org/assets/Uploads/4.-AQM-in-Changing-Urban-Landscape-Singapore-Rajaram3.pdf
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong! :doh:
Yalor
the guy who did the research probably had bought some units at J Gateway
Bias and so ambiguous
Allthepies
08-11-13, 07:08
More info
http://esi.nus.edu.sg/docs/event/censam-esi-mini_seminar-sept_2011.pdf?Status=Master
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/nea-expand-tracking-pm25-air-pollutant-20131106
http://app2.nea.gov.sg/anti-pollution-radiation-protection/air-pollution-control/faqs-on-air-quality#q4
http://www.baq2012.org/assets/Uploads/4.-AQM-in-Changing-Urban-Landscape-Singapore-Rajaram3.pdf
Good job to giving us all the factual links : )
Allthepies
08-11-13, 07:10
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong! :doh:
anything that don't tally with your thinking is wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
By the way, these data are meant as a guide for NEA, not meant to let you compare pollution levels among different regions. You all are barking up the wrong tree. Those who want to make us believe that the West has best quality air by pointing us to such data are just nuts!
You all need to consider these data in the right context & don't use blindly. NEA should just include fineprint / caveats!
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there! :hell-hath-no-fury:
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong! :doh:
http://www.menshealth.com.sg/health/pm25-haze-indicator-you-should-monitor
http://www.nea.gov.sg/psi/
http://insightshealthassociates.wordpress.com/2013/06/23/singapore-haze-how-dangerous-is-pm-2-5/
http://app.mewr.gov.sg/web/contents/contents.aspx?contid=1718
I think it's quite clear that West has generally higher level of pollutants (in 2011) based on the NEA website link from Chestnut. But the difference will not be as significant as the levels in certain countries described as cancer-causing. It should still be within very safe ranges as the human body has the capacity to deal with a certain level of pollution.
PM2.5 levels could also possibly be lower in the West. It all depends on how the survey is done, what industries or activities produce them, wind directions, seasonal changes etc etc...
It is pointless arguing over specific locations and projects. Rental demand and prices are determined by a multitude of factors. For each his own. Each believe in his or her own area (even abroad) will do. No point condemning others for their choices.
By the way, these data are meant as a guide for NEA, not meant to let you compare pollution levels among different regions. You all are barking up the wrong tree. Those who want to make us believe that the West has best quality air by pointing us to such data are just nuts!
You all need to consider these data in the right context & don't use blindly. NEA should just include fineprint / caveats!
I don't think anyone is stopping you to dispute the validity of those links. Do you have something refreshing to share other than just big talk?
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104785/
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/presspacs/2009/acs-presspac-november-18-2009/hidden-threat-elevated-pollution-levels-near-regional-airports.html
I think it's quite clear that West has generally higher level of pollutants (in 2011) based on the NEA website link from Chestnut. But the difference will not be as significant as the levels in certain countries described as cancer-causing. It should still be within very safe ranges as the human body has the capacity to deal with a certain level of pollution.
PM2.5 levels could also possibly be lower in the West. It all depends on how the survey is done, what industries or activities produce them, wind directions, seasonal changes etc etc...
It is pointless arguing over specific locations and projects. Rental demand and prices are determined by a multitude of factors. For each his own. Each believe in his or her own area (even abroad) will do. No point condemning others for their choices.
Biggest source of Pm2.5 in Singapore is.coming from road transport. Perhaps it's the traffic conditions in the central region that is make the air polluted.
Inteeresting finding though. Teddybear might have a hard time defending himself now.
http://www.eco-business.com/news/singapore-fine-particles-growing-concern-though-ai/
does anybody trim nose hairs?
i read that nose hairs can act as air filter for particulates.
Some of the answers on no. of stations, sources of PM2.5 emission, and concentration of PM2.5 can be found in this article. PM2.5 is so small that concentration by mass (microgram/m3) does not make sense. The count is more critical.
NEA to expand tracking of dangerous PM2.5 air pollutant
SINGAPORE - Plans are in place here to more accurately monitor levels of PM2.5, the air pollutant associated with vehicle emissions and the seasonal haze that has blanketed Singapore in the past.
The National Environment Agency (NEA) revealed on Tuesday that it will expand the country's air pollution monitoring network to give "a better picture" of PM2.5 levels across a wider area.
The aim is to develop better policies to bring down its levels.
PM2.5 is a fine particulate matter less than 2.5 microns in size. Over-exposure to it increases the risk of heart and lung illnesses and can reduce an individual's lifespan.
"Once you have the data, you will have a better sense of the seriousness of the issue," NEA deputy director of pollution control Rohaya Saharom told reporters, on the sidelines of a green transport forum at Traders Hotel.
Documents obtained by The Straits Times reveal that the NEA will add nine more monitoring stations nationwide to the existing 15 by early next year.
The stations monitor round- the-clock PM2.5, on top of the Pollutant Standards Index (PSI), which measures sulphur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, ozone, carbon monoxide and PM10.
Singapore uses the PSI and not the Air Quality Index used by countries like the United States. The latter specifies PM2.5 concentrations.
The NEA used to publish the annual average PM2.5 readings, but has been reporting it hourly since June, when Singapore was hit by the worst haze in its history.
Ms Saharom said the plan to expand the network was already "in the pipeline" before June.
The agency also wants to study the levels of air pollutants like PM2.5 contributed by sectors such as transport and power generation, said Ms Saharom. Doing so would help the Government formulate "more defined" policies to cut pollution.
The NEA did not reveal a timeline for its plan. Singapore's annual mean PM2.5 level has hovered between 16 and 19 micrograms per cubic metre (µg/m3) over the past six years, which does not meet the World Health Organisation standard of 10 µg/m3. The NEA aims to cut this to 12 µg/m3 by 2020.
PM2.5 is "clearly the most serious" air pollution concern, said vehicle pollution control expert Michael Walsh. A recent US study found that globally, about 2.1 million deaths annually are caused by over-exposure to it.
Reducing vehicle numbers or improving their emission standards would be the most effective way to reduce PM2.5 levels, especially in urban areas, he added.
Singapore uses the PSI and not the Air Quality Index used by countries like the United States. The latter specifies PM2.5 concentrations.
Singapore's annual mean PM2.5 level has hovered between 16 and 19 micrograms per cubic metre (µg/m3) over the past six years, which does not meet the World Health Organisation standard of 10 µg/m3. The NEA aims to cut this to 12 µg/m3 by 2020..
looks like NEA is hiding something from us.
I sure hope someone could consolidate some of the facts and links on air pollution into 1 thread dedicated to Teddybear. :D
I sure hope someone could consolidate some of the facts and links on air pollution into 1 thread dedicated to Teddybear. :D
dun nid la, simply create a thread "the official R33 hantum thread" teddy can find her way in liao :D
I sure hope someone could consolidate some of the facts and links on air pollution into 1 thread dedicated to Teddybear. :D
should be dedicated to the moron who has still yet to come clean on how crematoriums are as bad as heavy industries in their emissions.
check this out on Yahoo! news, all have one thing in common - proximity to heavy industries or waste processing facilities
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/photos/10-worst-polluted-places-in-the-world-slideshow/nasa-space-shuttle-s-photo-of-the-niger-delta-photo-1383863024298.html
should be dedicated to the moron who has still yet to come clean on how crematoriums are as bad as heavy industries in their emissions.
check this out on Yahoo! news, all have one thing in common - proximity to heavy industries or waste processing facilities
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/photos/10-worst-polluted-places-in-the-world-slideshow/nasa-space-shuttle-s-photo-of-the-niger-delta-photo-1383863024298.html
'Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.'
'Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.'
precisely, that's why i never bother arguing with you. your nonsense speaks for itself
:doh::doh: still can't believe there are morons in the world that think crematoriums can rival refineries
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