View Full Version : Recommend effective measures to prevent pte ppty prices from soaring?
Our policy makers had came up with numerous cooling measures to slow down the escalation of our pte ppty prices. Volume has indeed dropped "decently" while prices moderated "slightly".
However, ppty prices is still very high as compared to current income levels. Do you feel that every of the measures that has been implemented so far is effective in lowering our ppty prices to a more reasonable & affordable level and prevent speculations?
Personally, I feel that :-
1.CPF shd not be allowed to be used for 2nd or subsequent ppty.
2. Only can loan up till 50% for 2nd ppty, 25% for 3rd ppty & no loans for 4th & subsequent ppty.
3. ABSD shd be removed as seller will definitely pass this extra cost to the subsequent buyers; hence it causes prices to increase at a rate higher than wat it shd be.
4. SSD can be restructured in the following way to discourage flipping and prevent big volume of ppty being supplied into the market after the lock-in period has been fullfilled.
- Sell within 1 yr à 15% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2 yrs à 10% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2.5 yrs à 3% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3 yrs à 2% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3.5 yrs à 1% SSD payable.
-Sell upon TOP à no SSD.
5. Using % of one’s pay can be very misleading in ascertaining how much one can borrow. A person earning only $3k with a loan of 1.8k (60% TDSR) is in a much risky position than another one earning $10k wif a loan of $7k (70% TDSR). Hence I feel tat TDSR limit shd be staggered in the following way:
- Annual salary of below 45k à TDSR of 50%.
- Annual salary of 45k to below 60k à TDSR of 55%.
- Annual salary of 60k to below 75k à TDSR of 60%.
- Annual salary of 75k to below 90k à TDSR of 65%.
- Annual salary of 90k & above à TDSR of 70%.
The above r some of my humble suggestions :D Welcome discussion from forummers. Wat gd suggestions do u have?
Our policy makers had came up with numerous cooling measures to slow down the escalation of our pte ppty prices. Volume has indeed dropped "decently" while prices moderated "slightly".
However, ppty prices is still very high as compared to current income levels. Do you feel that every of the measures that has been implemented so far is effective in lowering our ppty prices to a more reasonable & affordable level and prevent speculations?
Personally, I feel that :-
1.CPF shd not be allowed to be used for 2nd or subsequent ppty.
2. Only can loan up till 50% for 2nd ppty, 25% for 3rd ppty & no loans for 4th & subsequent ppty.
3. ABSD shd be removed as seller will definitely pass this extra cost to the subsequent buyers; hence it causes prices to increase at a rate higher than wat it shd be.
4. SSD can be restructured in the following way to discourage flipping and prevent big volume of ppty being supplied into the market after the lock-in period has been fullfilled.
- Sell within 1 yr à 15% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2 yrs à 10% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2.5 yrs à 3% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3 yrs à 2% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3.5 yrs à 1% SSD payable.
-Sell upon TOP à no SSD.
5. Using % of one’s pay can be very misleading in ascertaining how much one can borrow. A person earning only $3k with a loan of 1.8k (60% TDSR) is in a much risky position than another one earning $10k wif a loan of $7k (70% TDSR). Hence I feel tat TDSR limit shd be staggered in the following way:
- Annual salary of below 45k à TDSR of 50%.
- Annual salary of 45k to below 60k à TDSR of 55%.
- Annual salary of 60k to below 75k à TDSR of 60%.
- Annual salary of 75k to below 90k à TDSR of 65%.
- Annual salary of 90k & above à TDSR of 70%.
The above r some of my humble suggestions :D Welcome discussion from forummers. Wat gd suggestions do u have?
chey, don't need to have soooooo many complicated CMs. take a leaf from ultimate leader Kim: watch (south) korean dramas, i execute you!!!
Buy second property, I execute you!!!
Our policy makers had came up with numerous cooling measures to slow down the escalation of our pte ppty prices. Volume has indeed dropped "decently" while prices moderated "slightly".
However, ppty prices is still very high as compared to current income levels. Do you feel that every of the measures that has been implemented so far is effective in lowering our ppty prices to a more reasonable & affordable level and prevent speculations?
Personally, I feel that :-
1.CPF shd not be allowed to be used for 2nd or subsequent ppty.
2. Only can loan up till 50% for 2nd ppty, 25% for 3rd ppty & no loans for 4th & subsequent ppty.
3. ABSD shd be removed as seller will definitely pass this extra cost to the subsequent buyers; hence it causes prices to increase at a rate higher than wat it shd be.
4. SSD can be restructured in the following way to discourage flipping and prevent big volume of ppty being supplied into the market after the lock-in period has been fullfilled.
- Sell within 1 yr à 15% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2 yrs à 10% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2.5 yrs à 3% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3 yrs à 2% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3.5 yrs à 1% SSD payable.
-Sell upon TOP à no SSD.
5. Using % of one’s pay can be very misleading in ascertaining how much one can borrow. A person earning only $3k with a loan of 1.8k (60% TDSR) is in a much risky position than another one earning $10k wif a loan of $7k (70% TDSR). Hence I feel tat TDSR limit shd be staggered in the following way:
- Annual salary of below 45k à TDSR of 50%.
- Annual salary of 45k to below 60k à TDSR of 55%.
- Annual salary of 60k to below 75k à TDSR of 60%.
- Annual salary of 75k to below 90k à TDSR of 65%.
- Annual salary of 90k & above à TDSR of 70%.
The above r some of my humble suggestions :D Welcome discussion from forummers. Wat gd suggestions do u have?
i think rule 1 and 2 can kill most pple leow..
Tony Blair
13-11-13, 13:24
Our policy makers had came up with numerous cooling measures to slow down the escalation of our pte ppty prices. Volume has indeed dropped "decently" while prices moderated "slightly".
However, ppty prices is still very high as compared to current income levels. Do you feel that every of the measures that has been implemented so far is effective in lowering our ppty prices to a more reasonable & affordable level and prevent speculations?
Personally, I feel that :-
1.CPF shd not be allowed to be used for 2nd or subsequent ppty.
2. Only can loan up till 50% for 2nd ppty, 25% for 3rd ppty & no loans for 4th & subsequent ppty.
3. ABSD shd be removed as seller will definitely pass this extra cost to the subsequent buyers; hence it causes prices to increase at a rate higher than wat it shd be.
4. SSD can be restructured in the following way to discourage flipping and prevent big volume of ppty being supplied into the market after the lock-in period has been fullfilled.
- Sell within 1 yr à 15% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2 yrs à 10% SSD payable.
- Sell within 2.5 yrs à 3% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3 yrs à 2% SSD payable.
- Sell within 3.5 yrs à 1% SSD payable.
-Sell upon TOP à no SSD.
5. Using % of one’s pay can be very misleading in ascertaining how much one can borrow. A person earning only $3k with a loan of 1.8k (60% TDSR) is in a much risky position than another one earning $10k wif a loan of $7k (70% TDSR). Hence I feel tat TDSR limit shd be staggered in the following way:
- Annual salary of below 45k à TDSR of 50%.
- Annual salary of 45k to below 60k à TDSR of 55%.
- Annual salary of 60k to below 75k à TDSR of 60%.
- Annual salary of 75k to below 90k à TDSR of 65%.
- Annual salary of 90k & above à TDSR of 70%.
The above r some of my humble suggestions :D Welcome discussion from forummers. Wat gd suggestions do u have?
It depends whether are you a seller or buyer.Seller always want sell high.Buyer always want to buy low.If you are rich and want that property badly all CMs have no meaning.Die die also must buy.
Buyer always want to buy low.If you are rich and want that property badly all CMs have no meaning.Die die also must buy.
it is true tat buyers who wanted ppty badly will be willing to buy at ridiculous prices. if for own stay there is nothing much one could say, but if it is meant for investment purpose, I would question the relative profitability of such rationale.
3. ABSD shd be removed ...
huh ? this will then be a *heating* measure instead ;)
huh ? this will then be a *heating* measure instead ;)
how many, do u tink r deterred by absd but not tdsr?
those who r hit by tdsr & hv no bullets left, wif or without absd makes no diff to them.
those still wif plenty of bullets & die die muz buy, wif absd they will still buy, as long as the pricing is attractive enuff.
so do I foresee there will be a mad rush after absd is remove? :tsk-tsk: I highly doubt so.
Cooling measures are reactive measures to the market conditions. Usually, it is a tad too slow and effects are hard to measure. Personally, I disliked cooling measures around stamp duties as these directly go to government without reducing the risk for the buyer. The key risk in properties is in the outstanding loan amount (leverage). So, these stamp duties increase the risk at the onset for the buyer.
Financial cooling measures are the best measures in my opinion as it ensured that people do not over leveraged themselves and thus reducing the risk. If price is too high, you can always reduce the TDSR or increase the downpayment % instead.
In due course, when price stabilize or reduce, I hope the government will start to remove the stamp duties cooling measures FIRST. When that happen, it will be a tad too slow to save the market.
Personally, I disliked cooling measures around stamp duties as these directly go to government without reducing the risk for the buyer. The key risk in properties is in the outstanding loan amount (leverage). So, these stamp duties increase the risk at the onset for the buyer.
cooling measures such as ABSD & SSD can only deter the problem temporary, but the root of the problem remained unresolved! :doh:
worse still, it created another set of problem! :banghead:
proud owner
13-11-13, 17:40
i think rule 1 and 2 can kill most pple leow..
good to know that I am not "most people' ...
I have never utilized my CPF for property..
Maybe I should IF I buy another
proud owner
13-11-13, 17:43
cooling measures such as ABSD & SSD can only deter the problem temporary, but the root of the problem remained unresolved! :doh:
worse still, it created another set of problem! :banghead:
agree
but this has always been the way our govt works ....
1 measure don't work ...add another.... and another ....and another ...
The authority should REMOVE the measure that doesn't work and implement another ...
COE failed to stop car population ... add ERP ... ERP still don't work ... INCREASE ERP pricing...
they should just go back to the drawing board, start all over and see what / where went wrong ...and go from there ...
good to know that I am not "most people' ...
I have never utilized my CPF for property..
Maybe I should IF I buy another
wat's yr reason for not wanting to use yr cpf?
agree
but this has always been the way our govt works ....
1 measure don't work ...add another.... and another ....and another ...
The authority should REMOVE the measure that doesn't work and implement another ...
COE failed to stop car population ... add ERP ... ERP still don't work ... INCREASE ERP pricing...
they should just go back to the drawing board, start all over and see what / where went wrong ...and go from there ...
to be honest for the property market scenario...I really think they have succeeded in engineering a "soft landing". I am sure without the CMs, the market would have skyrocketed... Now it appears that we can somehow anticipate ....My take is sluggish demand, especially with QE coming to an end...
And I'm quite sure that the Gahmen will not remove the cooling measures unless the market crashes....
The market now is a lot more stable...I think Bros who buy now will not expect significant gains in the next few years....therefore if prices are not right,don't buy...
Cooling measures are reactive measures to the market conditions. Usually, it is a tad too slow and effects are hard to measure. Personally, I disliked cooling measures around stamp duties as these directly go to government without reducing the risk for the buyer. The key risk in properties is in the outstanding loan amount (leverage). So, these stamp duties increase the risk at the onset for the buyer.
Financial cooling measures are the best measures in my opinion as it ensured that people do not over leveraged themselves and thus reducing the risk. If price is too high, you can always reduce the TDSR or increase the downpayment % instead.
In due course, when price stabilize or reduce, I hope the government will start to remove the stamp duties cooling measures FIRST. When that happen, it will be a tad too slow to save the market.
Excellent points made by Elmo! You are very perceptive! Bravo!
good to know that I am not "most people' ...
I have never utilized my CPF for property..
Maybe I should IF I buy another
I've got an ex-colleague who used 100% cash for his property. His rational is CPF interest rates are far too good for a zero risk vehicle! Might as well leave it there and let it grow! Wow, you are the 2nd pax I know who does that.
agree
but this has always been the way our govt works ....
1 measure don't work ...add another.... and another ....and another ...
The authority should REMOVE the measure that doesn't work and implement another ...
COE failed to stop car population ... add ERP ... ERP still don't work ... INCREASE ERP pricing...
they should just go back to the drawing board, start all over and see what / where went wrong ...and go from there ...
They are all a form of revenue. Yi Jian Shuang Diao strategy.
I've got an ex-colleague who used 100% cash for his property. His rational is CPF interest rates are far too good for a zero risk vehicle! Might as well leave it there and let it grow! Wow, you are the 2nd pax I know who does that.
but many dun feel secure leaving them there ... cos policy makers suka suka peng lai peng kee .... who noes, one might not hv a chance to use them.
but many dun feel secure leaving them there ... cos policy makers suka suka peng lai peng kee .... who noes, one might not hv a chance to use them.
He is a PR who intends to leave Singapore and cash out all the CPF money ultimately. Quite a smart guy.
We are SG, so we share the same view. My OA is ZERO most of the time! :ashamed1:
He is a PR who intends to leave Singapore and cash out all the CPF money ultimately. Quite a smart guy.
if say he use cpf to finance his ppty instead, any complication when he leave sg for gd?
cos to me, a PR use cash or cpf is the same, except for the interest portion.
We are SG, so we share the same view. My OA is ZERO most of the time! :ashamed1:
u sure we shared the same view? my OA hv yet to fall below 5 digits wor! :tongue3:
if say he use cpf to finance his ppty instead, any complication when he leave sg for gd?
cos to me, a PR use cash or cpf is the same, except for the interest portion.
u sure we shared the same view? my OA hv yet to fall below 5 digits wor! :tongue3:
No complications if he leaves for good. Fat CPF, at least 1 million bucks upon retirement.
If you don't 100% trust CPF, then we share the same view lor. I'd rather die than to pump in more fresh cash into CPF kind.
No complications if he leaves for good. Fat CPF, at least 1 million bucks upon retirement.
If you don't 100% trust CPF, then we share the same view lor. I'd rather die than to pump in more fresh cash into CPF kind.
diff one, I trust cpf cos tat's my $. I juz dun trust the kaypo ppl who wanna help me safeguard instead :tongue3:
foreigners trust our cpf system more den locals!
wat a mockery! :doh:
diff one, I trust cpf cos tat's my $. I juz dun trust the kaypo ppl who wanna help me safeguard instead :tongue3:
foreigners trust our cpf system more den locals!
wat a mockery! :doh:
Oooo .. then we have different views wor.
OA jeep = chut. Quite empty one.
My projection for min. sum is 200-300k when I retire, so how to trust a moving target?
Friend, foreigners intention is to go home end of the day, they are not restricted by the min. sum lor.
Government is not afraid of property rising if Singapore household income can move up in tandem. What the government is doing now is to force company to improve their productivity so that wages will rise.
Ultimately what the government need to do is to keep basic housing affordable and let private property rise along with economic growth.
Government is not afraid of property rising if Singapore household income can move up in tandem. What the government is doing now is to force company to improve their productivity so that wages will rise.
Ultimately what the government need to do is to keep basic housing affordable and let private property rise along with economic growth.
Private property rise along with economic growth is ok...
But if too many people getting richer from property will be a problem.
Income should be like a pyramid.
The higher the pyramid, there should be less people earning higher income.
There must be more people at the lower end of pyramid earning less to do the "work"
If there are more people at the top than bottom of pyramid...who wants to "work"?
walkthetiger
14-11-13, 21:18
Private property rise along with economic growth is ok...
But if too many people getting richer from property will be a problem.
Income should be like a pyramid.
The higher the pyramid, there should be less people earning higher income.
There must be more people at the lower end of pyramid earning less to do the "work"
If there are more people at the top than bottom of pyramid...who wants to "work"?
Correct.
R33 said "Ultimately what the government need to do is to keep basic housing affordable and let private property rise along with economic growth." - I think this is not likely to happen, as everything are relative....
Correct.
R33 said "Ultimately what the government need to do is to keep basic housing affordable and let private property rise along with economic growth." - I think this is not likely to happen, as everything are relative....
n dash the aspiration of all the singaporean to upgrade ? that will be political suscide. The aspiration of the people to upgrade are very very strong.
Private property rise along with economic growth is ok...
But if too many people getting richer from property will be a problem.
Income should be like a pyramid.
The higher the pyramid, there should be less people earning higher income.
There must be more people at the lower end of pyramid earning less to do the "work"
If there are more people at the top than bottom of pyramid...who wants to "work"?
So if private property rise with economic growth and HDB don't. then we have a getto class forming. Who cannot cross the chasm if they want to. and its not fair only certain section benefit from the economical growth of the country. HDB prices rises are part of sharing the wealth gain with the country economic growth.
I've got an ex-colleague who used 100% cash for his property. His rational is CPF interest rates are far too good for a zero risk vehicle! Might as well leave it there and let it grow! Wow, you are the 2nd pax I know who does that.
That is not wrong. but 100% cash for housing is not very rational unless very cash rich.
The right thing for now is borrow cheap from bank and keep $ in CPF as the interest is higher. when interest raises. the cost of borrowing goes up. then consider using CPF to pay back.
mean time the Cash can park in some rights that pay a fix 4-5% divined……
Looks like the cooling measures will be in force for long time...
My guess....the 1st cooling measure to be taken off will only be
When the rising of interest rates in US has stabilised.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore/singapore-s-financial/886994.html
SINGAPORE: Singapore's regulation and supervision of its financial sector has been assessed as among the best in the world by the International Monetary Fund.
Banks in Singapore cleared IMF's stress tests under the IMF's financial stability assessment programme (FSAP) -- meaning they are resilient to adverse global economic scenarios.
However, the IMF also highlighted some risks, including rising credit growth.
"The FSAP is a rigorous and comprehensive programme. It provided us the opportunity to be independently benchmarked against international best practices and to evaluate policy actions to address any vulnerabilities in our financial system. The assessment is a testament to MAS' long tradition of prudent regulation and supervision," said Ravi Menon, managing director of MAS.
High leverage in the economy, property prices rising to above its 2008 peak -- these are risks identified by the IMF that could pose a challenge to Singapore's financial stability.
The IMF said while these risks appear manageable, the impact will become clearer only when the interest rate cycle turns.
As Singapore takes reference from global interest rates, a spike in US interest rates -- caused by tightening monetary policy -- could be bad news for loan holders.
Song Seng Wun, a regional economist with CIMB Research, said: "If rates were to turn, especially since the bulk of mortgages here are on floating rates -- 70 per cent of mortgages are on floating rates -- that increase in interest rates can very quickly be a burden on household and businesses that borrowed."
When asked to comment on some of the report's findings, a DBS spokesperson said: "A large proportion of our mortgages relate to owner occupied properties and our delinquency rates over the years have therefore been lower than market."
Darren Tan, chief financial officer at OCBC Bank, said: "The government has put in place a series of sound macro-prudential policies to curb any excesses in the housing market and promote financial prudence among borrowers. Our home loans portfolio remains healthy with a very low level of NPLs (non-performing loans)."
In 2010, the IMF decided that Singapore is one of 25 jurisdictions with financial sectors regarded as being systemically important. These jurisdictions undertake a financial stability assessment every five years.
In this year's assessment, the IMF made recommendations on areas like credit growth, crisis management, and banks' capital buffers.
While the IMF acknowledged that Singapore banks have a low percentage of non-performing loans, risks outside Singapore now account for a larger proportion of their balance sheets as the banks expand overseas.
Mark Young, head of Asia-Pacific financial institutions at Fitch Ratings, said: "The authorities and the MAS, they have obviously strong control over the Singapore environment. However, they don't have the same amount of control over, for example, what happens in Indonesia, Malaysia or China."
OCBC, Singapore second largest bank by assets, said their core overseas markets of Malaysia, Indonesia and Greater China enables them to continue to participate in their higher rates of growth. Net interest margins in these markets are also more attractive as compared to Singapore.
Mr Tan added: "By adopting a disciplined and prudent risk management approach, we have been able to grow our exposures in these markets while maintaining a high quality asset book with low incidence of non-performing loans.
"Nonetheless, we remain vigilant to potential shocks that could have an impact on our portfolios by taking mitigating actions proactively to address such risks."
Singapore's financial sector is significantly larger than its economy. Local and foreign banks hold assets worth S$2.1 trillion (US$1.7 trillion), six times of its GDP. The banks make up the bulk of Singapore's financial sector, which also include insurance companies, and the securities market.
MAS said in a statement that it welcomes the positive assessment of Singapore's financial system and will review the recommendations and take appropriate measures.*
Private property rise along with economic growth is ok...
But if too many people getting richer from property will be a problem.
Income should be like a pyramid.
The higher the pyramid, there should be less people earning higher income.
There must be more people at the lower end of pyramid earning less to do the "work"
If there are more people at the top than bottom of pyramid...who wants to "work"?
Depends how u tink, there are many people who work even harder to support their multiple properties, as they know their assets are not for sale, until retirement...... so productivity can still go up..... tis is a strategic plan by the top to make the people work harder to support the family and your house, just got to believe in them!
So if private property rise with economic growth and HDB don't. then we have a getto class forming. Who cannot cross the chasm if they want to. and its not fair only certain section benefit from the economical growth of the country. HDB prices rises are part of sharing the wealth gain with the country economic growth.
depending if you are talking about HDB BTO, or HDB resale. For the government they will make BTO affordable and thats the reason why KBW said that they will not use resale market price to dictate the pricing for future BTO.
For resale flat, it will of course be subjected to market forces and
Correct.
R33 said "Ultimately what the government need to do is to keep basic housing affordable and let private property rise along with economic growth." - I think this is not likely to happen, as everything are relative....
its already happening, KBW already said that BTO prices will no longer follow resale market price.
Ultimately BTO is like an ang pao given to middle class Singapore to get a better head start in property
Looks like the cooling measures will be in force for long time...
My guess....the 1st cooling measure to be taken off will only be
When the rising of interest rates in US has stabilised.
I feel tat CM will be removed in 2016, after GE instead :D
I feel tat CM will be removed in 2016, after GE instead :D
I think some CM will be removed just before 2016, before the GE, otherwise more votes will be lost.
I think some CM will be removed just before 2016, before the GE, otherwise more votes will be lost.
hmmm ... if absd is removed juz b4 GE, they not scared there will be a mad rush to buy n jerk up the $ again?
puffer_fish
16-11-13, 09:25
Better to have more barriers and cm so that there will be less competition for those that can afford to buy :D
thanks to cm , now it easier to get the unit I want, more cm please:cheers1:
I do think that it will be after 2016 as they dun want to lose another GRC...
They hope external factors will help to soften the market.
I do think that it will be after 2016 as they dun want to lose another GRC...
Better to have more barriers and cm so that there will be less competition for those that can afford to buy :D
thanks to cm , now it easier to get the unit I want, more cm please:cheers1:
less competition oso means lesser demands. prices will definitely be better in the next 1-2 yrs :cheers1:
puffer_fish
16-11-13, 14:02
As I am not god thus I wont know what will happen in 2 years time but,
let hope so:p
As I am not god thus I wont know what will happen in 2 years time but,
let hope so:p
Im very wicked I rather hope fed will raise int rates in 2H 2014 :p
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