PDA

View Full Version : Shouts & Jeers - Bayshore Park



DrMinority
12-03-08, 23:43
[Pity about the loss of months of postings..]

Resident's questions to prospective sales committee lead to...
SHOUTS & JEERS
TEMPERS FLARE AT BAYSHORE PARK EN-BLOC SALES MEETING
WHILE the lush greenery, tinkling fountains and gurgling streams of Bayshore Park evoke a sense of serenity, it is anything but serene at the condominium right now.
By Special Correspondent
The New Paper
12 March 2008

WHILE the lush greenery, tinkling fountains and gurgling streams of Bayshore Park evoke a sense of serenity, it is anything but serene at the condominium right now.

Feelings have been running high over moves to put the estate up for an en-bloc sale.

Some are upset that they may be forced to sell their beloved homes.

Others are frustrated that they may be forced to keep their maturing properties and be thwarted from an investment opportunity.

One recent meeting saw residents arguing, jeering and heckling.

Under a white tent put up on the estate grounds, some 500 residents gathered on a Saturday afternoon for their third en-bloc sale meeting in five months.

STRONG FEELINGS

As with most condo en-bloc sales, the 1,000-plus Bayshore Park residents are split into two strong camps - for and against.

The campaign has gone on the Internet too.

One website, called Bayshore Park Lifestyle, talks about all good things and benefits of the 22-year-old estate and urges residents to 'say no to en-bloc'.

Meanwhile, it seems someone has written to the authorities, alleging fraud over how the signatures were obtained to requisition the most recent extraordinary general meeting.

It was against this backdrop that the meeting, facilitated by a panel comprising Mr Chan Kok Hong, a managing agent, management committee chairman Richard Soh and lawyer Loo Choon Hiaw, was held, on 23 Feb.

As residents registered, they were each given a booklet of voting slips.

Printed on those slips were their unit numbers and share values, and boxes for them to vote for those they want on the sales committee.

From the outset, there were concerns over the meeting's agenda.

Mr Chan said the meeting was requested on the basis of electing a sales committee.

A resident stood up to ask if a vote should be carried out on whether or not everyone wants an en-bloc in the first place, but MrLoo said this apparently was not necessary.

One resident wanted an assurance that the votes would be kept confidential.

Mr Chan assured him that the slips would be kept 'in a safe place', not to be opened again.

Under the law, any resident, whether for or against the en-bloc sale, can be in the sales committee.

OPPOSED TO OPPOSITION

Someone then said it 'does not make sense' to vote an anti-en-bloc person to the sales committee as that person could put up road blocks.

Another said that if such a person wanted to be in the committee, he would have to be in it for a check-and-balance role. There was clapping and cheering at this.

The candidates started introducing themselves one by one.

Most of those who were for the sale said they just wanted to find the best price for the estate.

Another said that having sat on the management committee, he knows that maintenance of the estate would get increasingly more expensive.

The candidates included an architect, a retiree and two realestate agents.

An anti-en-bloc nominee said he wanted to be on the committee so that he would know what was happening.

An elderly Englishman, a long-time resident of Bayshore, then asked for permission to ask the candidates some questions.

He was allowed to so so, but was told the candidates were not obliged to respond.

His questions to them included: Have you been a resident for a long time? Have you previous experience in an en-bloc sale? What reserve price do you expect? Are you in arrears of maintenance fees?

The jeering and heckling began.

At one point, some residents surrounded him and kept asking him to stop.

A resident shouted: 'He has absolutely no respect. These questions are not relevant.'

Agitated residents were seen waving their arms in the air.

The man remained composed, and Mr Chan had to step in, saying: 'Please, please, please. We need to keep this meeting in order.'

Asked one resident: 'How can he question them like that?'

Another said: 'He can't go around asking them a hundred questions.'

To which the man responded: 'Dear young lady, I have not asked a hundred questions. They are not ridiculous questions, they are important questions.'

Mr Soh then said: 'We should allow reasonable questions. If we don't have order, I may be forced to stop this meeting.'

Some of the nominees answered the man, others did not.

In the end, only the 14 pro-en-bloc residents were voted into the sales committee.

But with an estate as large and diverse as Bayshore Park, it is likely that this committee will have an uphill task ahead

Unregistered
13-03-08, 11:55
Overheard in the lift: In our country, we live with Muggers in low-class
residential areas. Over here, the people live with
Enbloc Muggers in high end residential areas. Houses
are mugged in broad daylight. Its all new to us.
Those poor souls can't even do a thing about it.

And as they were saying, they were nudging and whispering and looking around. Guess we were famous for defamation suit.

Unregistered
14-03-08, 17:39
hooliganism and brutish behaviour isn't confined to just the pro-enbloc group. The anti-enbloc group with their passions running high isn't any better.

Unregistered
14-03-08, 17:50
hooliganism and brutish behaviour isn't confined to just the pro-enbloc group. The anti-enbloc group with their passions running high isn't any better.
death panelty for guns. boxing gloves are ok. still safe.

Unregistered
14-03-08, 17:59
Should just have a one month voting period yes to enbloc or no to enbloc. 50% vote yes than proceed. Otherwise wait for a few years than try again.
Why the juggle? Its not benefiting anyone?

Unregistered
14-03-08, 18:13
Should just have a one month voting period yes to enbloc or no to enbloc. 50% vote yes than proceed. Otherwise wait for a few years than try again.
Why the juggle? Its not benefiting anyone?

As are result of all this are the prices expected to fall by Premium of expected enloc ?

Unregistered
14-03-08, 19:21
Property price not down. Enbloc price probably down.

Unregistered
14-03-08, 19:28
Sales Committee sucessfully formed . For info.

Unregistered
14-03-08, 20:43
In a way, its not a bad thing that the sales committee is reformed now rather than last year. Last year's committee would have pushed ahead still based on pre-subprime jitters property market and BP would have been stuck offering too high for a developer to bite.

Unregistered
18-03-08, 20:46
This enbloc is an exercise in futility!

foxygal
19-03-08, 12:20
not a waste of time if it help give me more options

Unregistered
23-03-08, 13:41
The enbloc hard place: -

1) How many average home owners actually comprehend all the enbloc rules & regualtions, most probably have to rely on the word of lawyers or other supposed experts.

2) How many take one year or more to decide to sign for an enlobc.

3) If, after the STB has completed its deliberations on any particular enbloc application, home owners find it necessary to hire their own lawyers, what is the point of the STB deliberations to begin with - are they totally impartial?

4) How many home owners who have been through an enbloc saga feel that the apportionment method favoured the sales committee or the agents or both?

5) How many home owners have sufficient staying power for the many stages of the enbloc process, not to mention the overall frustration and aggravation of it all?

6) Have homes now become nothing more than a commodity to be traded at the whims of the few?

7) It really is time the authorities looked at this 'urban renewal' and saw it for what it rellay is!

Unregistered
23-03-08, 14:33
The enbloc hard place: -

1) How many average home owners actually comprehend all the enbloc rules & regualtions, most probably have to rely on the word of lawyers or other supposed experts.

2) How many take one year or more to decide to sign for an enlobc.

3) If, after the STB has completed its deliberations on any particular enbloc application, home owners find it necessary to hire their own lawyers, what is the point of the STB deliberations to begin with - are they totally impartial?

4) How many home owners who have been through an enbloc saga feel that the apportionment method favoured the sales committee or the agents or both?

5) How many home owners have sufficient staying power for the many stages of the enbloc process, not to mention the overall frustration and aggravation of it all?

6) Have homes now become nothing more than a commodity to be traded at the whims of the few?

7) It really is time the authorities looked at this 'urban renewal' and saw it for what it rellay is!
No need to complain. Bayshore Park is too massive to go through!

Unregistered
23-03-08, 14:52
No need to complain. Bayshore Park is too massive to go through!

Even though it is too massive to go through, don't you think it is time the authority to stop the en bloc agony in this little red dot and let people live peacefully?

Unregistered
23-03-08, 15:19
what happens bayshore park does not go en-bloc

Unregistered
23-03-08, 16:13
what happens bayshore park does not go en-bloc
the price will drop, that's all.

Unregistered
23-03-08, 18:31
It may help if the agents are made to foot part of the bill for holding the EOGM. That may stop them from making empty promises of high en bloc value, and things could take a more realistic outlook.

Unregistered
23-03-08, 19:51
Mandarin Gardens tried four times. Give up already.

Unregistered
23-03-08, 21:03
the price will drop, that's all.
Wait for another 10 years , buildings cannot stand anymore, can get 80% within 3 months.

Unregistered
24-03-08, 20:27
Mandarin Gardens tried four times. Give up already.
Brookvale Park (about 160 units) also tried a few times for enbloc. Cannot get 80 per cent. Now also give up.

Unregistered
24-03-08, 20:57
Brookvale Park (about 160 units) also tried a few times for enbloc. Cannot get 80 per cent. Now also give up.why they all give up? I think they all want orchard Rd land selling price which many developers are unwilling to paid.

Unregistered
25-03-08, 09:56
why they all give up? I think they all want orchard Rd land selling price which many developers are unwilling to paid.
Last time enbloc is upgrade. Now don't know what grade. Not worth the all the energy. Big effort with little gain. Plus sunset area a lot of greenery.

Jieming
25-03-08, 10:31
A lot of BP units on sale in the classifieds these past few weeks.

Unregistered
26-03-08, 13:50
A lot of BP units on sale in the classifieds these past few weeks.

Are you one of them? If I remember correctly, you pointed out previously that BP was too old!

Unregistered
27-03-08, 06:43
Old is fine, the new condos are like a concrete jungle?

Unregistered
27-03-08, 10:31
jungle = got space.

new condos more like concrete pigeon holes. Damn small and what's the use of balconies??

Unregistered
27-03-08, 11:35
Are you one of them? If I remember correctly, you pointed out previously that BP was too old!
No I'm not one of them... yet.

As for balconies, I love my balcony. Its the nicest part of my home.

Jieming

Unregistered
28-03-08, 14:04
No I'm not one of them... yet.

As for balconies, I love my balcony. Its the nicest part of my home.

Jieming

If not ...yet, then are you waiting for en bloc, willing to forego your loved balcony?

Unregistered
28-03-08, 14:09
If not ...yet, then are you waiting for en bloc, willing to forego your loved balcony?

anyone think/dreams that prices of 2 bed will be back to 400-420 range and 3bed to 500-550 in bayshore park by this year end ?

Jieming
28-03-08, 15:01
Balconies, like most (not all, but many if not most) things in life, have a price. For the right price, I'll sell you my lovely balcony and trade it for something else equally nice.

I don't intend to hold on to BP forever. When I let go really depends on a few factors like price, availability of replacement, timing, etc. So if you're trying to pin down a statement from me to declare one way or the other as to whether I will want or not want enbloc, you'll be in for a long wait. I'm practical. If there is enbloc, then I'd vote for the right price. If there is not enbloc, then I'll vote with a sale of my unit as and when I deem it the right time to sell and move.

Jieming

Unregistered
28-03-08, 20:31
Balconies, like most (not all, but many if not most) things in life, have a price. For the right price, I'll sell you my lovely balcony and trade it for something else equally nice.

I don't intend to hold on to BP forever. When I let go really depends on a few factors like price, availability of replacement, timing, etc. So if you're trying to pin down a statement from me to declare one way or the other as to whether I will want or not want enbloc, you'll be in for a long wait. I'm practical. If there is enbloc, then I'd vote for the right price. If there is not enbloc, then I'll vote with a sale of my unit as and when I deem it the right time to sell and move.

Jieming

So you are a fence sitter. If so, I still don't understand why you actively promoting to set up the SP in the first place and to disturb the peace of other people.

Jieming
29-03-08, 01:04
So you are a fence sitter. If so, I still don't understand why you actively promoting to set up the SP in the first place and to disturb the peace of other people.
For the concept of a fence sitter to even be relevant, one needs 2 sides of a fence. Having an SC gives the other side of the fence, otherwise it is nonsensical to talk about sitting on a fence that doesn't exist.

Unregistered
29-03-08, 08:53
Its not on most agent's agenda to take on such a big project. Its an uphill task to get the acts together. Needless to say there are just too many much friendlier growing list of en-blocs flooding the market for the agent's choice.

Unregistered
29-03-08, 13:54
knock knock, who's there? - Enbloc!

enbloc who?- Enbloc Rat!

rat who?-Rat Race!

race who?-Race to get 80%!

80% who?- 80% who will sign for enbloc hell!

hell who?- Hell in fire!

fire who? - Fire burns!

burn who?- Burn some smart asses..........

Unregistered
29-03-08, 16:57
For the concept of a fence sitter to even be relevant, one needs 2 sides of a fence. Having an SC gives the other side of the fence, otherwise it is nonsensical to talk about sitting on a fence that doesn't exist.

I s-e-ee, get to set up the SC first, sit on both sides of the fence, wait and watch both sides to fight then get the best from one side. How scheming, oops! ... i mean what a scheme!

Unregistered
29-03-08, 17:00
I s-e-ee, get to set up the SC first, sit on both sides of the fence, wait and watch both sides to fight then get the best from one side. How scheming, oops! ... i mean what a scheme!

Precisely. Whoever said sitting on the fence is easy and/or needs to be passive?

Unregistered
29-03-08, 17:05
Its not on most agent's agenda to take on such a big project. Its an uphill task to get the acts together. Needless to say there are just too many much friendlier growing list of en-blocs flooding the market for the agent's choice.

Agent should work hard for the commission, isn't it? Agent targets en bloc potentials because of huge commission - quite easy money though because the lawyers and SC will somehow be working for it too.
However, it is not a matter of friendliness or not. It is a matter of taking away peoples' homes!

Unregistered
29-03-08, 20:06
Mandarin Gdns enbloc is dead in the water.
Developers will not risk that amount of money. They are scared stiff that they can't shift the expensive sites they bought in the first half of last year. The last thing they will do now is purchase another billion dollar site. The market has changed. Game over.

Hopeful
29-03-08, 22:27
I don't suppose there will be many enbloc deals done in the near future. Developers are opportunistic creatures, no money to be made, they won't bite. If there are huge sums of money to be made by developers, the owners lose big time.

Jieming
30-03-08, 13:58
Developers study long term trends. Their planning is necessarily measured in decades. If you plot the property price cycles in psf for Singapore land, these so called meteoric rises and spectacular plunges in property prices are no more than the usual undulations in what is essentially a smooth but slightly upward curved graph. The property prices seemed just as fantastically high at the last 1996 peak. Look at them now. How many of you wished you had bought and held till now more than 1 property back at the 1996 peak? Even absolute peak 1996 prices are looking pretty darn cheap viewed today.

This is the game Developers play. Only simple home buyers like you and I see the 1-3 year gain-lose cycle and go Ohhhh... Ahhhh.....

Sit back and think for a moment.

Singapore.
- Island.
- 5 million people and growing.

Add this to the shift towards more affluent foreigners the gov't is wooing with the two IRs, Universal Studios, the F1, Islamic banking, the Cruise Center, the Yacht Marinas etc. and the trend becomes very clear. Land will become scarce and by extension, increasingly more and more expensive. Urban renewal is and will always be a part of the Singapore property landscape. Where does the "kampung" fit into this scheme? Well, other than some more cohesive landed home clusters.... probably.... no where. We are an Island with a ballooning population that needs to continue to compete with the rest of the world if our children are even to be given a fair chance at making a decent life for themselves.

Is it fair to you as an individual? Probably not, but many things in the macro sense is hardly ever fair in the micro sense and vice versa. But this is the reality we live in. Do we have choices? Of course we do.

What can we who live here do?

1. Stop playing the game. Fall out of the property "struggle" and go live in government subsidised housing. You'll have fewer worries then. HDB will take care of you.

2. Play the game better. Gather resources and safe guard your home the only way possible, by buying freehold landed property. Other than very special cases, you're the boss, the king of the land. Give it to your descendants for the next millenia... or two.

3. Go play some other game. Migrate and own your lands in perpetuity in a larger country where development will never reach you... or your children... or your children's children... so on and so forth for the next couple of millenia.

Meanwhile...

Unregistered
30-03-08, 23:50
Developers study long term trends. Their planning is necessarily measured in decades. If you plot the property price cycles in psf for Singapore land, these so called meteoric rises and spectacular plunges in property prices are no more than the usual undulations in what is essentially a smooth but slightly upward curved graph. The property prices seemed just as fantastically high at the last 1996 peak. Look at them now. How many of you wished you had bought and held till now more than 1 property back at the 1996 peak? Even absolute peak 1996 prices are looking pretty darn cheap viewed today.

This is the game Developers play. Only simple home buyers like you and I see the 1-3 year gain-lose cycle and go Ohhhh... Ahhhh.....

Sit back and think for a moment.

Singapore.
- Island.
- 5 million people and growing.

Add this to the shift towards more affluent foreigners the gov't is wooing with the two IRs, Universal Studios, the F1, Islamic banking, the Cruise Center, the Yacht Marinas etc. and the trend becomes very clear. Land will become scarce and by extension, increasingly more and more expensive. Urban renewal is and will always be a part of the Singapore property landscape. Where does the "kampung" fit into this scheme? Well, other than some more cohesive landed home clusters.... probably.... no where. We are an Island with a ballooning population that needs to continue to compete with the rest of the world if our children are even to be given a fair chance at making a decent life for themselves.

Is it fair to you as an individual? Probably not, but many things in the macro sense is hardly ever fair in the micro sense and vice versa. But this is the reality we live in. Do we have choices? Of course we do.

What can we who live here do?

1. Stop playing the game. Fall out of the property "struggle" and go live in government subsidised housing. You'll have fewer worries then. HDB will take care of you.

2. Play the game better. Gather resources and safe guard your home the only way possible, by buying freehold landed property. Other than very special cases, you're the boss, the king of the land. Give it to your descendants for the next millenia... or two.

3. Go play some other game. Migrate and own your lands in perpetuity in a larger country where development will never reach you... or your children... or your children's children... so on and so forth for the next couple of millenia.

Meanwhile...

It is entirely possible that Singapore might become irrelevant like Malacca years down the road. To say that Singapore property is a sure bet regardless of the high curren price is to ignore such risks

Unregistered
31-03-08, 10:54
It is entirely possible that Singapore might become irrelevant like Malacca years down the road. To say that Singapore property is a sure bet regardless of the high curren price is to ignore such risks
Yes you're right. That all goes without saying.

My point is that it is because Singapore is small that urban renewal is a crucial tool if Singapore is to continue being relevant and not go down the road of Malacca like you rightly pointed out.

Unregistered
03-04-08, 00:42
Anyone know or have any idea when is the Next EOGM, Mid April???

Unregistered
08-04-08, 02:02
next eogm is to appoint marketing agent and lawyer right?

Unregistered
08-04-08, 06:45
next eogm is to appoint marketing agent and lawyer right?
No, its not going anyehere..........

Unregistered
08-04-08, 16:40
Enbloc happiness keeps you Sweet!
Enbloc trails keep you Strong!
Enbloc sorrows keep you Human!
Enbloc failures keep you Humble!
Enbloc success keeps you Glowing!


But only GOD keeps you Going!

zoosware
02-09-09, 22:58
Will Bayshore Park try to go enbloc again after the recent failure of the previous Sales Committee?

AAA
13-09-09, 15:31
Will Bayshore Park try to go enbloc again after the recent failure of the previous Sales Committee?

No, Bayshore will never go enbloc. It was never anything more than a pipe dream. It is too big, too nice and too complicated. Same for Mandarin Gdns.